Webtoons went public and filed a bunch of shit with the SEC. Turns out, they've been losing money for years. Last year, they lost 145m. All those webcomics are a money pit. This shouldn't be surprising cause people figured this out twenty years ago hence why you should be pushing merch and not daily content.So yeah, turns out, floppies are still way better even with the reduced numbers.
>>144428577>According to the updated filing, the average annual salary for professional creators on WEBTOON is around $48,000, with the top 100 creators earning $1 million annually. The level of financial support represents part of the platform’s commitment to supporting its creators, which allows many to turn their passion into a career. However these figures alone don’t tell the whole story.>Some of WEBTOON’s numbers are surprising, given the success of the platform – 170 million monthly active users. The investment website Seeking Alpha broke some of them down. For instance, despite all those readers, the company is not profitable. In 2023 it lost $145 million on revenue of $1.28 billion. These numbers were better than 2022’s though, so thing are improving.
>>144428577Webtoons went all-in on the weeb teen romance crowd and left everyone else fending for scraps.Then again that Boyfriends shit was their flagship series for a while, so who really wanted to publish on "that website with that gay comic?" Not to mention that their policies on censorship are ass too.
>>144428577It's going to be real discouraging if the only way comics by themselves can make a profit is by collections/tankōbons with near slave labor conditions for the creators.
>>144428632Crowdfunding is doing fine. 48 page graphic novel once or twice a year seems to work. Really, its just DC & Marvel need to stop being shit.
>>144428577It's not that they're unprofitable, rather it's the publisher being retarded enough not to extract value from their IPs.
I don't know how Webtoons runs things. Is advertising the primary form of monetization? Everyone uses adblock.
>>144428872It is, and it's stupid not only because of that, but because digital advertising is run by Facebook and Google. The most viable path forward is not to continue down this plantation economy, but to sponsor small publications and artists to produce stuff that drives your own sales.
>>144428743>CrowdfundingGrifting*
>>144428577>5,852 paid members X $7.50 a month.It's all about memes drawn with cute anime girls these days.
>>144428577On what planet is it a good idea to go public with a webcomic hosting company?
>>144428577Webtoon's layout is unusable. It's really amazing how much worse it is to read things there than to read 20+ year old unmaintained keenspot sites.
>>144428577>start hilariously non-viable business>milk idiot venture capital investors for all you can get>IPO>bigwigs cash out for millions and abandon ship while all the true believers get left behind to clean up the mess and wonder what went wrongMeet the new scam, same as the old scam.
>>144428743>48 page graphic novel once or twice a yearIt really is crazy how the French and Belgians figured this out in the medium's infancy yet no one else has. 2 pages a week is the most sustainable model.
>>144428577>>144428598It's well known that Naver fudges numbers with bots, fake accounts and other trickery to inflate their numbers. You can tell because despite the supposed popularity, high viewcounts and whatnot nobody ever talks about this shit. Nobody discusses it, draws fan art of it, buys it, whatever. It's all fake numbers.
>>144429141Brian Pulido delivers his books on time.Dan Mendoza delivers his books on time.Jim Balent delivers his books on time.Avatar Press delivered their books on time.And Eric July delivers his books on time.Crowdfunding is being used by more than the youtube crowd. It is VERY viable.
>>144428577>293$ million IPOWhat level of irony is this, this garbage isn't even worth 25m gaining full overship of every IP on the platform.Who the fuck would invest this much into a free webcomic platform.
>>144429499it's dot com bubble 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Only a decade ago it was still normal to find self-published webcomics on their own fancy websites styled to fit their own vibe, with simple banner ads, often directing you to other comics that you might actually be interested inGod I miss it. I don't know how, but I know in my heart the cause of this is tied to the internet consolidating into fewer and fewer sites, and somehow that has to be tied to fucked up marketing practices and ad revenue calculations. The pieces are there but I'm not a smart enough person to math it all out.
>>144429645Running your own website is cheaper and easier than it ever was and yet the number of people capable of doing it is lower and lower.
>>144428598>170 million monthly active userslul yeah every page click counts as a monthly user for their data to fleece moronic investors plus all the bots. webtoons is fucking dog eater garbage that only has the worst of the worst. Its koreans and other Asians fully copying already done manga&anime&V/LN changing it slightly releasing it as their own claiming its all theirs STOP POINTING OUT HOW MUCH X LOOKS LIKE MINE IP HOW DARE YOU SAY I COPIED THIS ART WE KOREANS ARE A NOBLE PEOPLE WHAT OUR COUNTRY IS NOT RAN BY 5 FAMILIES WHO BELONG TO SOME MENTALLY ILL CHRISTKEK CULT STOPPPPP CALLING ME A ARTSTEALING MOONIE A DOGEATING MOONIE REEEEEEEEE
If there is still growth and the losses are trending down isn't that good?
>>144429645Most people don't even know what HTML is. Zoomers are even less tech-literate than boomers now.
>>144429645Everyone is on their phones and mostly on social media. A lot of old school webcomics weren't formatted for mobile view.
>>144429686zoomers are fucking mentally retarded and cant use anything but a smartphone and a UI with big bright buttons anything more complex fries their brain worse than a boomer on a PC/phone
>>144429645In the 2010s companies figured out that no one clicks on ads (because they all gave you like viruses and shit back then), so the ad revenue from banner ads dried up. Instead ad money would get allocated to things that could be quantified with retention metrics like youtubeslop. But a lot of the web going to shit is a result of this, ranging from the polarization of news media to the invention of the concept of content.
>>144429645Even back then there were big conglomerate sites but they mostly existed as a way to cheaply get a lot of shit in one place.
The worst part is that the whole vertical scrolling thing is pushed as "so much better for phone reading" but it's not. It completely changes he entire way comics are done so you're really just reading a series of drawings with no actual flow or storytelling or sense of pacing. You can check shit like Mangadex and that stuff reads fine on mobile. Vertical scrolling is completely useless.
>>144428577I read some of these things but I can't imagine paying for digital comics. I just use.. not Tachiyomi, I forget the name. But the app that replaced it. But yeah some Korean stuff is fun for a change if you get bored of capeshit.
>>144429789>because they all gave you like viruses and shit back then>back thenIt's arguably even worse than it was back then. It wasn't advisable but you could still use the internet normally. Now shit like uBlock Origin or browsers with built in ad blockers like Brave are virtually a requirement.
>>144429801Yeah there was some kind of like, hive thing? Some kind of bee-themed shit I saw on a lot of webcomics, but even then it seemed like it was just a network for comics to advertise each other with. Literally the most benign form of advertising I could have thought of at the time, and arguably the most reasonable form. I'm reading comics, I might want to read other comics, so tell me about other comics, and don't be obnoxious or sleazy about it.
>>144428743>Crowdfunding is doing fine. 48 page graphic novel once or twice a year seems to workAny proof of profits? We see revenue on the campaigns but we don’t see costs including page rates, printing, shipping, replacements for damaged product, ect. >seems to workWould, to me, mean 100K per year (a livable wage) pure profit for the publisher/creator. That means 50K profit on a 48 page comic. Rather than quibble over the specific number, which will inevitably be what you do, just stick to any proof of profits on any of these projects. I’ll repeat, PROFIT not REVENUE.
>>144429789well yeah thats why 99% of ads were flash to autoiject malware into your pc from ads no need to click the ad company did it for you! Why do you think it took so long for flash to die considering how fucking unsecure it was.
>>144429921100k usd>A livable wageIs this a fucking joke?
>>144429827Mihon? Thats what I use.
>>144430379Yeah that's the one.
>>144428577>webtoonsNot webcomic, they are exclusively mobile comics for chinks, gooks, and fat white fujo cuntsI wish I could stand the infinite vertical format, but fuck Scot McCloud, that shit is unreadable.They also have nothing to read for anyone who doesn't want to slurp recycled k-drama shite.(I'm actually Korean too, lmao, not that it really matters)
>>144428632>near slave labor conditions for the creatorsthere has never been a time when this wasn't trueyou can't make money with art, art is what you spend money onbut aside from randomly hitting the lottery, you can still eek out a living drawing a webcomic if you've been doing it for years and have a small but dedicated fanbase and make enough to pay rent occasionally
>>144428598That's pretty high revenue, and I'd have to look closer to see why it's losing money. If it's because it's still investing hard all its revenue, that's pretty different.Or, it's an Uber situation where it has to spend all its money to have the revenue it has. I don't know.
Is there any big company who is actually profitable? I always read about how they all lose mad cash every year. Netflix, Disney, Youtube and even 4chan. Still up and running.Economics are bullshit and every knows it, they can lose as much money as they want the CEO's still own enough money to shove up your ass until it come out of your ears.
>>144430479revenue and profit are different things, they make money, what you hear about is investors being disappointed the line not going up to an expected number and tanking their stock for a bitbiz news is for investors, not peasants like you
>>144430479Netflix and Disney are actually profitable, but that's because they're media companies with near monopoly status. Social media will never be profitable because it's a plantation network of many free riders where the internet is supposed to be small computers sharing the load. What your position stabs at, but doesn't get, is that these companies want to form private monopolies and then jack up the prices, and the investment is based in assuming that this can happen.
>>144430479It's like Twitter, that shit never made a profit and was propped up by literally FBI and CIA, you only hear about it now "losing money" because lefties are still angry Musk fired their tr@nii pals.
>>144429954>Rather than quibble over the specific number, which will inevitably be what you do, just stick to any proof of profits on any of these projectsI accept your concession.
>>144430512Disney's in a weird place where everything else they do is a loss leader for the parks. Their actual media divisions are unprofitable or barely breaking even.
>>144430452>you can still eek out a living drawing a webcomic if you've been doing it for years and have a small but dedicated fanbase and make enough to pay rent occasionallyThis isn’t eking out a living at all this is poverty and this is also the rare “success”
>>144430510Yeah. Business discussion here is pretty bad on average.
>>144430552That's why people who say their are artists, are either living at home, teach or tend coffee bars (or married to a spouse who actually works)
>>144430565I mean, is the comic board. You should try talking about softcoreporn instead.
>>144430550Barely breaking even by financial news standards is still the 3 or 4 percent profit that one can expect of a mature media company that still has both revenue and subscribers. It's not great, sure, but mature companies don't have to be constantly growing (and Disney hasn't grown since they still made video games and books; acquisitions are not growth) and should not be expected to. The fact that we now treat mature businesses like startups, which themselves were just services catching the wave of governmental infrastructure development in the internet, is incredibly dangerous. Most actual businesses are just profitable, and going above that for that myth of shareholder value is reckless.This has led to the demise of the global economy twice, and this time we need to point the finger at the mouthy ATMs that have always been responsible for the destruction of capitalism.
>>144430571>married to a spouse who actually worksNo THAT is a success story
>>144430565>Post pic of softcore porn>Discussion is mainly about business promoting webcomics, mostly related to making softcore porn >Convince some coomers to do a lil research on biz just to preserve their cartoon jerk papes a little longer>Profit
>>144429334Franco-Belgian comics problem is that if a story stops selling or is consistently low. It just ends with it unresolved or at best wrapped up hurriedly.And with only 2 volumes a year, the margin of error is so thin, particularly for a serialised story.
>>144430793Also their most successful media company by far, Ankama, just copied the American software model and the Japanese media model, but slapped French worker protections, hours, and benefits on it.Turns out this stuff works if you actually pay people and try to keep them around.
>>144430819Funny, I was thinking about how they publish Radiant. Which does put out 2, rarely 3 volumes a year but has enough marketing power to sell like a manga.Ankama’s Dofus/Wakfu/Tot’s wild ride barely makes money but they are good at hooking into the internet ecosystem.
>>144429334>It really is crazy how the French and Belgians figured this out in the medium's infancy yet no one else has. 2 pages a week is the most sustainable model.What are some good euro comics that are running currently?
>>144430793>if a story stops selling or is consistently low. It just ends with it unresolved or at best wrapped up hurriedly.But enough about manga.
>>144428577>webcomics aren't profitableNO SHIT. WHO EVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT GIVING COMICS AWAY FOR FREE WASN'T PROFITABLE?
>>144430858They're very good models if you make them semi-sustainable and not constantly obsessed with infinite growth. They could certainly grow a bit more and throw more money at cheap adventures made by the people (it's France, after all) but businesses aren't quite there yet, let alone resilient but slow ones like European firms.There has been nothing more destructive to the media models that worked before than to assume that turning everything into franchises or broad slopagandic veins of low-effort homogenized garbage is what people are after simply because Hollywood or AAA video games do it. You have to have the small cheaply made but ambitious stuff too, and the two things stopping there from being more of that is money and distribution.
>>144430879Gunning For RamirezI’m not sure if volume 3/3 was published, but it’s been slowly getting an English translation.
>>144429334You forgot the part where no one outside of France cares about French comics.
I mean, I never had to pay for one. I could use a bot to look at ads and deal with ads without me noticing. I did pay for a webtoon one to read a whole season in one go (well worth it), but even then most webtoons are relationship based.
>>144428577Well the comic is just a vihicle to sell merch and exclusive stuff, that's were you're going to be making a profit. >>144429257How this guy draws so fast is beyond me. The man is like a machine. But not really what we're talking about.
>>144429815vertical scrolling on pc is the true coinsure choice.
>>144429815Look it up how they look in a published book format. I won't save that travesty on my computer to post it here.
>NOOOOO I'M SUPPOSED TO BE A MILLIONAIRE FROM MY LOW EFFORT WEB COMIC THAT MY 10 FOLLOWERS READ!!This is why commies always starve.
>>144431021AHHHHHHHHHHalso>when I see the same 3d assets from clips studio over and over againfigures Koreans would manga with Samsung, fitting revenge I suppose
>>144429853Pop ups now just try to sell you things and try to generate extra cash for the site
>>144431063I charge 40$ per shirt, I am in no way a commie ;)
>>144431063>LOW EFFORT>takes 6 hours per panel
>>144430479That reminds me do the banner ads here lead anywhere or are they just billboards?
>>144429931I don't think you realize, but java script being everywhere and injecting bits of script into your browser is in every way you can imagine WORSE then flash.You have entire websites that totally hijack your computer and use it to mine fucking coins copy your data and do whatever it wants using java script. With flash you could at least block flash and happily wander the net. With HTML5 and the horrifying monstrosity that is javascriptYou're completel fucked.
>>144430926Works for newspaper comics.
>>144431021How did people's standards sink so low that this is considered acceptable? Maybe because it's free but if I was paying for it I'd feel ripped off with the lack of backgrounds and half the space being blank
>>144428743>Really, its just DC & Marvel need to stop being shit.Too late for that. Both have sold their souls to multi billion dollar companies and are now simply IP farms. Turning a profit does not matter.
>>144430967French and Belgian comics are a staple of French Immersion students' reading in Canada.
>>144431107You should do a better time management. I often take 20 min per panel unless I'm doing something fancy. If you are aiming for a schedule realize and not an one big book every year or so is probably better for you. Example of my art so you can know what I aim for in 20 min.
>>144431140you have to realize the vast majority of their readers are teens who've never read many books, let alone comic books, they've literally lived their whole life with long vertical phones, no PCs perhaps laptops for school, to them the phone app is their natural domain and these comics provide them with enough fun distraction during their bus/train ride to school, squeezed in with their fellow Asiatics like sardines... US zoomers are barely any different, they just have larger ipads
>>144431140Lack of many alternatives, mostly. Also webtoon only makes you pay to get comics earlier than usual, as far as I can tell. Unless there's some high tier premium slop I'm not aware of that you can ONLY view through paying for it, the comics I've followed tend to be of the "pay some coins to see next week's comic early" or even switch out paying coins with watching an ad. I'm not going to watch the ad, but it's an option.Anyway, Webtoon's overrun with romance slop to be sure, but I've found a handful of cool horror comics on it. Witch Creek Road and Stagtown, The Strange Tales of Oscar Zahn, Tales of the Unusual was okay. You know, I actually kinda really liked Metro Hunter too but the author kind some kind of stomach cancer or something and it's been radio silence since.
>>144431127B-but I have noscript!More seriously, though, it's downright maddening how many sites 'need; javascript to work. The fuck does a news article site need javascript for? Nothing good.The internet becomes a smaller place when you don't accept every random script.As an aside: why the fuck did gmail eliminate basic html view? It was the only thing they had going for them. Their standard view is a fucking laggy piece of shit.
>>144428743name some good ones then fag
>>144430479I think >>144430510 is right but I also have to wonder if tax shenanigans aren't partially to blame too. Like, pretending you have a lot of money to investors while pretending you don't have much money at all to the IRS.
>>144431138No, it doesn't. Look up how "the syndicates" work.
>>144429853You used to be able to get viruses just from clicking ads. You need to deliberately download them now. I think there were even Flash ads that could download a virus directly to your computer just by being loaded on a webpage.Autoplay and popups were also far more common back then than they are now.
>>144431316Youtube putting ad blocker on their site and making it unusable made sure 80% of the entire internet used ad blocker. Sites to keep up put 200% more intrusive ads.Is basically impossible to use any website without an adblock and you will get something if you are not careful in any shady website. Google destroyed the internet for indie creators.
>>144431127Wow scary how does one protect themselves? >>144431202Yeah I know but it's not like they can't see better stuff. And I know it's not always about looks but so much of it isn't even trying to have it's own style. >>144431235They sorta pegged themselves in that niche. I don't doubt there's a lot of good stuff there but all I ever saw advertised was boyfriends and the one where everyone wears a mask
>>144431316>You used to be able to get viruses just from clicking ads. You need to deliberately download them now.Sorry I'm pretty dumb but why is that the case now, because of flash being gone?;
>>144431235>Lack of many alternativesYeah this. For whatever reason romance comics are pretty rare these days.
>>144431138But that's because newspaper comics are combined with local/major news, politics, and weather. majority of boomers also don't know they can read these comics online. Separating the funnies from the newspapers will actually end up killing both industries simultaneously.
>>144429141People are really starting to fucking overuse this word. Goddamn.
>>144431432Communists hate commerce
>>144431140If I'm being honest? I read through shit too fast. I read as many "good" classic type webcomics I have that I know of, but that's a pathetically small number, because most of my best ones are over now, or died. I can pay to read real comics, because pirating them doesn't help this problem, but I'm going to be more selective with what I buy, and even when I do buy something, or even just whenever I read current comics however I read them, it kills what, 15 minutes? If I'm following ten stupid webtoon comics at least that's a few more minutes of my day I can kill.>>144431376>Yeah I know but it's not like they can't see better stuffIt actually is kinda hard to find better stuff. Like, where else can they go? Even Comixology got rolled into fucking kindle and I feel like I need to sacrifice a goddamn goat to pazuzu just to look for something on that website that isn't getting pushed to me on the front page. Fuck Amazon and everything they stand for, Comixology was shit too but it was purpose-built.
>>144431140>How did people's standards sink so low that this is considered acceptable? Maybe because it's free but if I was paying for it I'd feel ripped off with the lack of backgrounds and half the space being blankWhy spend countless hours working on pointless shit you're only going to look at for 15 seconds at the most?
>>144431414>For whatever reasonwomen and girls don't seek out comics, simple asmanga they do, half of that shit is googly eyed teen romance/pointy chinned yaoi fagshitand even the manga readers are TINY compared to the overall populationeveryone has phones, so a platform catering to all will have the proper equivalent of girl-slop
>>144431376>They sorta pegged themselves in that niche. I don't doubt there's a lot of good stuff there but all I ever saw advertised was boyfriends and the one where everyone wears a maskYeah I get that. The ones I mentioned were promoted when they were new and still running, but they're done now so you won't see them getting promoted. You'd really have to dig to find them, probably. I do recommend those ones though. Nocturne is current and ongoing and that's a pretty good one too. Nocturne and Tales of the Unusual are/were anthologies, the others were story-driven. Apocalyptic Horseplay was a neat story too, I wouldn't really call it Horror exactly, but it's not QUITE a horsemen of the apocalypse otome, but it's kiiiiind of adjacent? I'm not doing it justice, and it's not korean, obviously, I don't think any I've recommended are except tales of the unusual, but it's interesting.I'm mostly throwing names out there for you to investigate, and it's possible they exist in better formats elsewhere, but it was convenient to find them on webtoon, in the "if you like these you might also like" bit at the end of comics I'm already reading.
>>144431181This absolutely looks like it took 20 minutes per panel. That’s not a compliment.
>>144431181pretty neat, but I also color, so that adds to the timeI try not to think too much about efficiency and just try make each page best as I can
>>144430452>art is what you spend money onWhy?
>>144431541Yes, thank you. At least it doesn't look worse.>>144431557I never advise people to color comics unless they know what they are doing EXACTLY. It always looks like trash otherwise.Black and white is so much better for readability. all you need is a good clean lineart and good enough understand of contrast to differentiate each plane. You can do action lines and scenes much more easily and build atmosphere using blacks and contrast. You can always find examples of pages who look much better in pencil than they look finalized because you have more contrast and it reads better.
>>144428577>Turns out, webcomics aren't profitableYeah that's why I just make them for fun when I have a good time window to actually illustrate them.I'm going down the indie animation route. Tata bitches.
>>144428839Do they really not do merchandise or anything else? Legit amazed
>>144428839>>144431698they take popular IPs and turn them into dramas/films... tho in Korea I guessI'm not aware if they've had any success with western creators
>>144431727Honestly, I always thought love advice from the great duke of hell would've been perfect for an adult cartoon. Shit was fucking hilarious.
>>144431447Maybe they just expected great content to flow endlessly with minimal effort? Well besides pirate apps Marvel and DC have their own apps but most others are shit outa luck. It's weird because you'll see TikToks and YouTube shorts of cape comic summaries with millions of views so it's not like people aren't interested>>144431486That's a sad mindset but it's not like it doesn't reflect the real world. A lot of indie creators are working 9-5 and are just doing it in their spare time hoping it'll make a profit.
>>144431831tiktok don't want you to read anything, just blitz yer senses and scroll down for the next dopamine hitfucking retarded screaming head talking for 60 seconds about (insert niche interest drama) in-between stock images and ai illustrations in multiple styles, THAT's what get you millions of views
>>144430479>the CEO's still own enough moneyThis is not how corporations work. At all. Not even close.
>>144431886most people don't actually know what a CEO is they literally think it's the guy who owns the company
>>144431878Yeah and for good measure throw in a shaved bro in aviators with a bugati in the background telling you how to cheat code "females".
>>144431903this is about the extent anons know about corporate structure:https://youtu.be/-aazAwda4bM
>>144431921I need this, but for femboys~
>>144431831>you'll see TikToks and YouTube shorts of cape comic summaries with millions of views so it's not like people aren't interestedThat doesnt mean they are interested in reading the actual comics, they just want to know "the lore"
>>144431010>How this guy draws so fast is beyond me. The man is like a machine. But not really what we're talking about.a good drawing tablet, intuos screen as example.
>>144428577>floppies are betteri'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. none of us are marvel or dc.>>1444294394chan has some frankly enormous media blind spots with things that aren't marketed to them
>>144432053>4chan has some frankly enormous media blind spots with things that aren't marketed to themThere's enough users here that there's probably an anon into everything.If it's shit, that anon doesn't bring it up here (ex: I won't bore you with the shitty isekai WNs I read).It's not that no one on 4chan knows about product X, it's that no one thinks it's worth talking about (and others don't know about it because of course you can't know everything).
>>144432110anon I only talk about shit here because it's the trashcan of the internet. Also, it's dead af outside of the bot and jeet infested boards.
>>144432110You're being a bit disingenuous if you're going to pretend anyone was saying "not a single person here knows about thing." You know perfectly well this is about proportions. Webtoons are not that popular with people who frequent places like this, so they rarely get discussed. Attempting to attribute that to the impeccable taste of the army of retarded faggots crying about wimmen on 4chan is unconvincing.
>>144432198NTA but I do think there's a valid point to be made that between people not wanting to talk about this or that thing and people who just straight up don't know about it, it could seem as if those things just don't even exist to the random user, or that nobody knows/cares about them. The few people here who do care don't talk about it, so it can seem as if nobody knows/cares about it if you're only ever on 4chan. Again, I don't know if that's what anon was talking about but I do think it works as supplementing your own point.
>>144429801those still exist, but the only people who post their are kids or autistic people who's comics will be there gathering dust.meanwhile on twitter the thing making rounds is shitty white blob stick figures for trauma dumps
>>144428743This model is gonna age out since the only people supporting it is 45+ year olds buying stuff from has-beens.
>>144432384they've read this trash for 40 years, why'd they stop now
>>144432325Does anyone still use twitter?
>>144432478I get all my memes from twitter, anons repost them here ;)
>>144432478all the people who said they would leave if elon bought it still use it
>>144432500>>144432496Like I only use to get a beat for what fintwit from time to time but aside from that shit is filled with so many bots it's insane.
>>144428839This. I keep seeing random "holy shit, you're a fan of this?" people reading webtoons. If the company can't figure out how to monetize something read by that many people, it's a pretty stupid company. I recommend merch.
>>144433354Merch is the only way to make real money off entertainment without a nationwide theatrical release.
>>144429439This is the only post in the thread that matters. Webcomics are not and have never been "successful" overall. And the exceptions only prove the rule.
>>144433438pretty much, and the only time I see webcomics is gayshit in Barnes & Noble, but no one buys them or discusses them.it's all money laundering.
>>144429921>You need to make millions of dollars or its a failureZoomer math
>>144433377Lots of stories don't really work for making merch of, like the k-drama romance stories that are popular on Webtoon. Many of them are popular because the premise and characters feel grounded or relatable (as opposed to something like a sci-fi fantasy premise) which means the aesthetic of the webtoon is more realistic. People never really bought much merch of stuff like Law and Order or Monk whatever. Lots of people rightly also don't want to have lots of cheap plastic shit taking up space in their homes. Advertising and direct sales are better/more realistic routes but one consumers don't want to accept (while also being rightly unwilling to buy shitty merch). >>144431831>>144431878>>144431969Why do you guys trust Tiktok views?
>>144431969Yeah that's true. It's too bad because they're just getting a short summary with no dailog. >>144431983Well duh
>>144432110>if it's shit, that anon doesn't bring it up hereIt's the exact opposite of that, and you know it.
>>144428577Thats interesting.
>>144428577I read it because it's free.
>>144431140The vertical format is superior on phones. You don't have to zoom. The spaces are effectively page breaks. Different artists use them differently.
>>144429141Its not a grift if the creators actually deliver on the book
>>144434425got any recs?>>1444344564chins posters are mostly PC boomers pirating manga and comics for ~20 years, it's too late to change
>>144429691meds
>>144434487"Grifter" is just new 5oyspeak, means they aren't shoving faggot propaganda like rest of modern media.
>>144429257Don't people know you can get that for free
>>144429141Annoying youtubers aren't the only ones crowdfunding comics anon.
>>144428577i think their business model of taking the rights of everything their big creators do is probably gonna scare a lot of people outta trying it at allhell, i've seen more people than ever go for the full indie neocities route.
>>144431969True. Most Americans would rather do anything else then read a comic, including reading ABOUT a comic. The perception of this medium is terrible.
>>144431648Agreed
>>144431173Yeah they literally don't care anymore
What does a Webtoon in printed format look like anyhow? Is it like a 2-column mess or is the layout put together a different way
>>144436350Usually they draw the comic book page normally and chop it apart for webtoon format afterwards.Lot's of layers, vector layers if possible.
>>144433634>100K is “a zillion”Also>Rather than quibble over the specific number, which will inevitably be what you do, just stick to any proof of profits on any of these projectsI accept your concession, for a second time.
>>144433464>it's all money laundering.You don’t seem to understand what this term means. Laundering is done with no paper trail and certainly doesn’t involve overhead costs, material waste and financial losses.
>>144428577The real money for webtoons is in getting adapted to K-dramas and occasionally anime. Trying to pretend that this is an east vs west "victory" for American capeshit against webtoons is pretty retarded.
>>144431432It's really an easy-ass word to use for anything you don't like and make it sound like you're making an informed criticism.
>>144428577>So yeah, turns out, floppies are still way better even with the reduced numbers.What does this news have to do with floppies?
>>144436929Not so much "east vs west" but showing the "Floppies must die" crowd are wrong, again. Even Japanese webmanga makes its money on Trades/Tankobon.
>>144436974>but showing the "Floppies must die" crowd are wrong, again.How? What does this have to do with floppies?>Even Japanese webmanga makes its money on Trades/Tankobon.You're confusing yourself. That's precisely the argument AGAINST floppies and for trades. You seem to be talking about no printed material at all which isn't the criticism against floppies.
It's kind of interesting how /co/ look for simple generalizations to a business model. It's not that Webtoons isn't popular. The problem is that it's not properly managed and monetized. Offices cost money, servers cost money, staff costs money,...and the people writing the stories mostly live on noodles to make ends meet.
>>144437031>No printed materialThat is the argument against floppies (and trades) with webtoon being the "see, this is what the kids are reading". Up until this released, everyone thought Webtoon was making bank on ad revenue. Turns out that was false.Just another one of the long list of "how do we save the American comic book industry" answers getting flushed along with "reboots", "more events", and "be like manga".
>>144428839This. Half of the people in charge of some companies still consider the internet a passing fad. My friend works for a marketing firm where the owner refuses to let people keep electronic files because he thinks people will just stop using computers.
>>144437075>That is the argument against floppies (and trades)What? You seem very confused about what you're trying to argue against or what you yourself are trying to argue. Criticizing the weekly/monthly floppy model isn't a call to end all printed materials and, again, you're lumping trades and floppies together when one of the arguments against floppies is that trades make more sense.You genuinely seem to have no idea at all what you're talking about.
>>144437075And would YOU improve the American comic industry?
>>144437120nta, but maybe stop reusing the same 10 characters for the last 60 years
>>144437105>You genuinely seem to have no idea at all what you're talking about.He has a chip on his shoulder from all the dumb East vs West threads. Note how he's trying to make a gotcha about American print media distribution when that's the common laughing point from those kinds of threads
>>144437105>Criticizing the weekly/monthly floppy model isn't a call to end all printed materialsYes it is. Cause "everyone reads comics on their phones now", "Digital is the future" and other nonsense that was disproven a decade ago. Floppies win, you lose, deal with it.
>>144428577Comics deserve to die if Marvel and DC aren't the center of it. The Big 2 are the comic industry, superheroes, the main attraction, and I'm tired of Youtubers, grifters and independents trying to rob them of their rightful place.
>>144437120Nothing. If DC and Marvel go down, that's on them.
>>144429723Where are all the millennial websites anon? Why aren't they saving the internet instead of the 20 year old zoomers? Maybe put le zoom zoom boogeyman down for this one.
>>144437075>everyone thought Webtoon was making bank on ad revenueIt makes bank on adaptations. The average webtoon barely even appeals to me (it's all either vapid romance or gay fujo shit), but you're doing some extreme mental gymnastics to pretend this shows that muh spiderman and wonder woman can still beat the Asians.
>>144431557Not that Anon or even an anon with a webcomic but I feel like coloring quadruples the turnaround time on pages. I'd only do it for chapter covers and big moments.
What is this trying to prove exactly?No one is reading comicsEveryone is reading manga, webcomics and watching anime, because they're easier to get a hold of than your average american comic
>>144428577>So yeah, turns out, floppies are still way better even with the reduced numbersThey aren't.
>>144437075Do floppies actually make money or is it everything else that keeps the lights on? If you got rid of all the licensing and merchandise would Marvel or DC survive on just monthly sales?
>>144428577They've been " losing money" sine 2020/21 because the pandemic ballooned their growth into stupid proportions. That doesn't mean they're not still profitable.
>>144429645It's because search engines have fallen apart since the mid-2000's. It used to be very easy to find new and random stuff, but Google castrated its own engine to make a profit from ad work, and every other engine followed suit. So if you had a webcomic, it was pointless to make a site for it since it wouldn't be discovered anyway. This was a blow, but not a death blow. But you're right about the death blow. What actually killed discovery was how everyone consolidated to a handful of sites. When EVERYONE is one on of five sites, it means EVERYONE has to shout over each other, meaning no one can rise to the top. You can only get close by paying for it or somehow correctly pleasing a constantly changing algorithm. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Twitch, Tumblr... they all have this problem. Some worse than others but they all have.It's not an accident that we saw the biggest internet celebrities emerge when TikTok first opened, when its algorithm was complete garbage and allowed any random asshole to blow up. You think Belle Poarch would remotely find success now? In this environment? No, she found success by stumbling on a brand new app in its infancy.TL;DR: Google killed websites, site algorithms killed discoverability.
>>144429815Porn manhwa has so so much empty white space
>>144428577>WebtoonsFuck off pajeet
>>144431432It's what rightwingers and /v/ drawshills do anyways
How the hell do you monetize webcomics anyway? If one were to hypothetically make webcomics for a living, I mean.
>>144438216Patreon and merchandise.
>>144437075Every EvW thread I've seen is on how comics are falling behind manga in physical sales
>>1444382161. make a comic that's popular enough that people want to pay you to create more of it2. set up patreon3. put exclusive content on patreon4. profit
>>144428598>pump up numbers to convince investors it's still growing>report losses so you don't have to pay taxesSame old.
>>144432157>4chan is deadIt's not, right?
>>144431341>Google destroyed the internet for indie creators.What stops someone from paying someone to put an advertising text on the side of website?Like>A comics about guy obsessed with bonking goblins! goblinbonker.com
>>144432110>There's enough users here that there's probably an anon into everything.Yes, but we can't discuss niche things because threads die too fast. Board culture doesn't grow more topic-diverse because it's constrained by it's UI>>144432053>4chan has some frankly enormous media blind spots with things that aren't marketed to themnot 4chan, just /co/ and /a/. And mostly because unlike /v/ splitting into vst, vrpg, vm etc mods refuse to split these boards.So co only discusses lowest common denominator stuff (coomer cartoons & big 2 collector comics) and everything else is inertia from obsessove regulars who insist on their favourite media.A non-regular can never discuss HIS fav media because he can't afford the time spend bumping, baiting and lowkey samefagging their threads for hurs till actual posters arrive.Which means new webcomics, webtoons, alt comics etc never get discussed here.These threads end up like this exactly because of this. We all feel what's happening and start these autistic circular arguments to as a way to vent frustration.I don't believe webtoons is "unknown", just inflated. Complete normies I know IRL know about lore olympus by example but it never gets discussed here
>>144439849>And mostly because unlike /v/ splitting into vst, vrpg, vm etc mods refuse to split these boards.It's frankly baffling at this point
>>144437776All manhwa/manhua does. I think "vertical scrolling is good for mobile" is basically a cope invented by shitty artists who can do 2002 How To Draw Manga tier scribbles (all of that Korean/Chiense shit looks like 20 year old DeviantArt stuff with fancy photoshop effects) but have no idea how to actually tell a story visually or construct a page. Verticle scrolling means you don't need to do that, you just need to draw pin ups disguised as panels.
>>144441237Thats why most artist do these splash art pieces than stories. They can only draw!
Haven't visited this in a few years. WTF have they done to it? It's almost as unusable as Crapass now.
>>144439849I agree. There is a very large blind spot from the overall bias here towards big 2 capeshit which is only made worse by the rage bait which can quickly push out anything that isn't moving as fast. I'm grateful for the people who post different stuff since it's an uphill battle these days for anything to get attention.>>144439661I'm more suspicious these days since it's become obvious that bot spam accounts are on the rise. Not just here though. A lot of places have problems with fake activity and it's only gotten worse everywhere.
>>144439849This is because 95% of the audience that webtoons are aimed at on 4chan tend to just read manga.Plus, /co/ is exclusively for western comics and cartoons, and most webtoons are not western.
>>144432425Dying mainly.
>>144441714>There is a very large blind spot from the overall bias here towards big 2 capeshit which is only made worse by the rage bait which can quickly push out anything that isn't moving as fast.capeshit, 2000s indies & furry strips, turn of the 10s webcomics and french coomer bds to be more specific.these are the typical topics of a "co boomer".everything else swims against the current.bnut what really kills comics talk is the increasingly large gap between the size of the cartoons fandom and the comic fandom. cartoons today absolutely destroy comics in terms of staying power>and most webtoons are not western.not but by any margin, theres 3 decades and thousands upon thousands of western webcomics. webmanhuas aka "webtoons" are still young.
>>144441744>>144441862forgot to quote
>>144441714>>144441714You know what's worst about first point? We see several times in any creative thread that there's a bunch of anons who do comics or cartoons but posting them here is rarely considered viable. The only time an indie/webcomic work is considered 'appropriate' for a thread is if it's popular on twitter. Anyone else who wants to show their stuff just gets autists yelling at them to BUY AN AD when word of mouth is way more helpful to spread a project. People wanna complain there's nothing good to read in Big 2 or corporations but people offering alternatives just get told to fuck off, it's just weird.
>>144428577They should print their comics onto toilet paper rolls. Such a stupid format.
>>144441892fuck i actually considered doing that. LOL. Fuck this place.
>>144442287I've also been holding back. The webcomic thread was a total shitshow with the same 3 cunts before it died for good.
>>144441892This is spot on. Marvel and DC can post their solicitations complete with official links to preorders. And anons will beat their dicks to these threads until it hit the post limit. But god forbid someone promotes their free-to-read comic.
>>144442331this kinda bothers. This places consistently complains about the quality of comics then get mad when people give them a potentially good offering. Are you so stuck on capeslop that you refuse to step outside the marvel/dc plantation?
>>144442405Back in the day (old anon here) we had message boards where we'd trade art, have art contests and were pretty collectivized with regards to the pushing of the talent that came outta the boards (wizardworld, penciljack, etc). Robert Kirkman was one of those guys.
>>144428577good riddance
>>144428577These guys just suck at monetization. I've seen too many random normies reading this for me to believe there's no audience.
>>144444444HOLY DIGITS BATMAN
>>144444444Wasted octs
>>144444444checkem
>>144444444And there we have it, Webtoon is kill
>>144444444I was only 3 posts away...
>>144444444shit get
>>144444444What a boring get. God this board sucks.
>>144444444WASTEDsadge
>>144444478So was I, kek
>>144444444NOOOOOO
>>144434492love advice from great duke of hell, tower of god, jungle juice, and everything is fine (spoiler it isn't)
>>144444444On topic reply in an on topic thread. Good enough for me and 1000x better than a braindead "fuck XYZ" "XYZ won", "buzzword" reply.
>>144428577>Webtoons went publicthis is always death for the consumer
>>144444444holy waste of digits Batman
Shit GET for sure but I'm just thankful it didn't go to the AIslop thread.
>>144444543Same, that would've been the death of /co/
>>144428839not every comic will be profitable, not every. profitable comic will be profitable beyond its ip manga only works because its a battle royal for relevance, when you're a small time creator its a cut throat environment that only pays pennies. few people actually last longeven manga that were once the biggest hits in the industry get short notice to end their stories when they're no longer the flavor of the month
>>144444444Pathetic.>>144444447
>>144444444Lame get, but I've seen worse.
>>144444444
>>144444444Checked
>>144444444I hope you step into a puddle of water with socks on
>>144444444What a fucking waste
>>144442287>>144442331your shit probably sucks. I've seen all of like two good webcomics from anons and the rest is shit and their creators whiny piss babies.
>>144444444FUCK YOU
>>144444444CHECKED
>>144444444checked
>>144444444DangWhat were >>144444442>>144444443>>144444445>>144444446
>people seething that the "get" was an on-topic statement that webtoons' financial difficulties are due to their business model being poor, not their product being unpopular I'm not sure this board even LIKES Comics & Cartoons.
>>144429334Tintin is 62 pages. That's substantially more. The earlier entries were random numbers of pages before being reformatted to fit 62 in the color albums.
>>144429645They still exist. Lackadaisy, Property of Hate, hell, even XQCD, which is more like a newspaper strip. They all have their own self-hosted sites and they're not the exception. Lackadaisy's in particular is gorgeous.
>>144444444A waste, but truthful
>>144444444Basedjackers lost!
>>144444444If i farted, would it smell?
>>144431432Welcome to 4chan, where words lose all their meaning because dumb people use them as shorthand for "thing I don't like."
>>144444503>love advice from great duke of hell, tower of god, jungle juice, and everything is fine (spoiler it isn't)neatgot any moreany other anons?
>>144444444based regular post get. this board is so shit regular posts like these are a blessing
>>144444444I guess webcomics are good then. Can't argue with those digits
>>144444444NO FUCKING WAY!!!
>>144428577Just a reminder Webtoon only promotes romantic comedies and if you don't want to do that then fuck you. Like Sword Interval is basically their very own Hellboy and they paid Ben Fleuter for it to be there and nowhere else, and yet it got zero promotion and I bet most of /co/'s webcomic community doesn't even know about it.
>>144444444Blessed get.
>>144444444WASTED octs.
>>144445868>only promotesperhaps because the vast majority of their fans are teen girls?>Sword Intervallooks ugly, shame about the art, but I'm sure it's good, but not he kind of art that catches weebs or girls
>>144445868You can't trust online platforms to know how to recommend any more than you can trust them to know how to advertise. We actually have less infrastructure for both than we did twenty years ago.
>>144445941>perhaps because the vast majority of their fans are teen girls?And why is that? Could it be because they only promote romantic comedies?
>>144444444Webcomic Get
>>144446153perhaps, but if I were to guess, I'd probably say it's the k-pop connection, the music and the dramas that are overwhelmingly popular among girls than boys, and that webtoons found the rich mother lode of female readers that western faggots and dykes kept bitching about and destroyed our industry to "chase,"
>>144444559Not every comic will make money but it's literally the only thing Webtoon has. The fact that they went public while being unable to squeeze any profit from their main business is just retarded. It reminds me of some fuckass electric car company.If I were them, I'd start laundering money.
>>144444444Witnessed
What the FUCK are they spending all that money on?It's webcomics, people used to make that shit for free. Surely they're not paying the artists more than 5 bucks and a can of beans per comic.
>>144446782hookers and blow ain't cheap, especially in this economy
>>144444444holy digits calling out webtoons for serious mismanagement
>>144444444Giving something away for free doesn't magically cause it to be profitable.
>>144428577>you should be pushing merch and not daily content.why not just have an online shop in the platform that sells creator merch like TikTok Shop?
>>144441892>Anyone else who wants to show their stuff just gets autists yelling at them to BUY AN AD when word of mouth is way more helpful to spread a project.ngl i haven't seen examples of this around, right now swain is self promoting his porn and other anons have posted their indie shityou just make a thread and dump the relevant pics, only people who'd protest are schizos.
>>144446782Budget probably looks like:>webdev paychecks (pennies, high turnover, "we're always hiring!")>executive salaries (90% of all profits, do nothing but send emails to webdevs telling them to work harder and faster)
>>144446408Yeah turns out girls want cute romantic drama and comedy and not whatever ugly gay shit the industry keeps pushing.
>>144431486>Why spend countless hours working on pointless shit you're only going to look at for 15 seconds at the most?This is a great example of the difference in mindset. Zoomies know that there's too much content and theirs will never be good enough to last or stand out. So why put effort in? They're making tiktoks and disposable reaction videos and shit. Stuff that will wash away in the rain. Meanwhile boomers and millenials are still making actual comics and books. Physical products that will go into stores and libraries and shit and outlast them when they die. They'll eventually end up in landfills or get pulped but they dont care. Digital shit is inherently disposable and worthless, it's all just digital noise. Momentary distractions. Nobody reads a webtoon to learn something about themselves and the human condition. They don't read to think, in fact it's the opposite. They need something to distract them while their hot pockets microwave. Or read while they're taking a shit or brushing their teeth. So why put effort into making a scrolling "comic" for that? You'll forget it a week later. I can barely remember half the webtoon shit I read. That shit is fast food. The skeleton that keeps reviving or the strongest florist in the mmo and shit. They're good for five seconds, just like that first bite of fast food. But they don't sustain. They have no real substance.Ironically the lack of effort the authors put it means they'll never last. Their shit wont stand the test of time. Bone, Ninja Turtles, even mangas will outlive them all.
>>144444444Congratulations.
>>144444444>x44444444>Most sensible down-to-earth reply in the thread.>People get mad because it's not sensationalist shit-flinging
>>144431831>It's weird because you'll see TikToks and YouTube shorts of cape comic summaries with millions of views so it's not like people aren't interestedPeople don't want to read shit. They just want to know what happened in it so they can pretend they read it. That's the problem. Instead of reading something and making up their own mind they get a synopsis from a recap and then some robot narrator tells them if they liked it or not. Nobody is developing media comprehension any more. They just want to know the 'lore' or the plot. Not what the actual fucking stories are about or for. There's no ingesting of the material. No forming your own opinions or coming back years later to re-evaluate a work and see it from a different perspective after gaining worldly experience. I mean I know the plot of the story, why read it again? The next generation are fucked. Capitalists turning everything into CONTENT mush slop is unironically making everyone retarded.
>>144444444>ultra 4's post>shitting on a dying asian platform>4's mean deathTHE KILLING BLOW
>>144436350I saw one in a book store. It looked like ass with the big white spaces of nothing. It felt like half the book was missing as I flipped through it.
>>144437142He probably screams at people to go back to /a/ if they dare criticize the comic industry
How were these supposed to make money anyways? The subscription cost is so low. It's a terrible medium for ad rev. And they hire so many people at once to hit every corner, yet only a handful are huge hits that can push merch But they can't cut back in variety since a lot of these are clearly designed to hit specific niches
>>144429815It means every frame is essentially a reveal page, not a frame with context. But artists can't go all in and out proper emphasis to justify a devoted page 100% of the time, it would be unreasonable. So you end up with a lot of what are essentially single page and two page spreads depicting very dull and mundane moments, and a lot of artist's falling back on white space.
>>144448814Yep
>>144445011In much fewer numbers and they're either really old that survive the test of time or got shilled wuite hard.
>>144448814Typical
>>144448288Yeah most likely
