ohhhh she's tearing the knot's book in half like the gordian knot. I just got it. I hate this fucking book
I grow tired of Watchmen. Of these double meanings. I'm tired of getting reading it again and again.
>>147104915Watchmen is god-tier.
>>147104915A lot of the cheekier easter eggs like that were more Gibbon's idea than in Moore's script.
>>147104956How do you know? Weren't Moore's scripts extremely exhaustive?
For me its pic related. I wish we got more of ozymandias and his pet cat.
>>147104915The worst thing to ever happen to cape comics.
>>147105036Unironically. The greatest trick ever pulled was convincing people there was more to comics. That they could BE anything more than men in tights beating the fuck out of one another
>>147104915>I just got it.youre hating something you should have noticed years ago? sounds like a you problem more than anything.
>>147104944>I'm tired of getting reading it again and again.How many fuckin times you reading it? I like Watchmen more than the average /co/mrade and I've only read it like 3 times.
Did you know that Dan's haircut resembles that of a great horned owl?
>>147105168'Cause it don't make sense, man. That's why I gotta read it over and over.
>>147105198at least dr manhattan was right, nothing ever really changes. people still cant understand a comic aimed at edgy 14 year olds.
>>147105198No, it all makes sense. Tell me which parts don't make sense to you. I probably won't explain them, but I will definitely laugh at you for being stupid.
>>147105198forgot image
>>147105232i dont understand why black freighter was even part of watchmen.......
>>147105227I don't want you to explain it to me. The best part of Watchmen is that it has teo ways of seeing it. The Comedian Way which is how you seem to view it, is to read it and take it at face value. It's comic book where a hero saves the world by killing every. Like Poison Ivy in Batman. The Rorshach Way is to read it and look for more within the story. That's where I am. Read it over and over. See different symbolism and double meanings. Take a step back and admire the details that you didn't catch at first. And then discuss it.
>>147105293i was trying to be meta, anon.
>>147105246honestly that part still gets me choked up. I know I sound like a faggot but the Newsstand Owner running to the kid to protect him from the blast is the most haunting imagery in the book.
>>147104915Is it time for the hourly "seethe at Alan Moore" thread
Imagine howboring comics would be without a little juxtoposition. >>147105190The first time someone pointed out the Fat Man and Little Boy in Jon's memory I nearly shit a brick
>>147105309you mean the skeleton imagery ?, i like that too
>>147105343wait till you notice that if you turn the page at a certain angle theres always a smily face or clock hands with 11:53
>>147104915OK, so it's a referenec to Alexander cutting the Gordian Knot, but what does that mean in context to two lesbians arguing?
>>147105362Wait until they find out that the silouhette is the blood stain or the the blood stain is 5 to midnight
>>147105456The lesbian is a Top Knot.
>>147105485Isn't there a villain called The Silhouette?
I don't get it. The book is obviously very good and took years of work to get write? Why are certain people so snobby about liking it?
>>147105456The gordian knot represents a complex issue that either seems or is unsolvable conventionally.The version of the story where Alexander approaches that hurdle by simply slicing it in half is meant to suggest one of two things depending on how you look at and engage the world as a person.Either it's genius to simply unravel something in a single stroke with whatever will cut through all the fuss others struggle with futilely.Or it's indicative how those unable to grasp the reason for said struggle or fuss will simply destroy things needlessly and irrevocably.Every time the Gordian Knot is referenced in Watchmen it's to highlight how the character (and possibly the philosophy they represent) are an example of just that sort of Alexandrian nature to other individuals and the world.Joey, one of the two said lesbians, says she doesn't want to understand herself or others, she just wants to forget herself through life's pleasures or not have to face its problems at all.Rorschach's solution to getting Dan's cooperation is to break his Gordian Knot lock repeatedly and subject him to fearmongering and slights when the comic illustrates simply apologizing and appreciating Dan's tolerance could have achieved the same with less strife.Veidt, well, Manhattan explains it best.Nothing ever ends.
>>147104915Alan Moore could give Dobson a run for his money in fetishizing lesbeans
>>147105246A few reasons. It shows the desperation of a madman clinging to survival, which parallels how Ozymandius, the Comedian, and Rorschach all act. It also serves as a foil of a 'lowbrow' comic and compares its artistry and subject matter to the "real" world around it.
I think Moore should have called the lock company Gordian or Gordian Lock Company instead of Gordian Knot Lock Company. Even though plenty of people did not catch some of the references, and in Silver Age fashion spoonfed some parts, he shouldn't have dumbed it down so much.
>>147105792Don't forget this was a comic that was supposed to be horrifying beyond imagination. The artist/writer who made it was the one who helps design the monster for Ozy
Can any of you scholars tell me why Doc Manhattan removed all his clothes? Was that supposed to be some... Adam and Eve thing? Like being naked would make him closer to God? Or was it meant to be his failing grasp on humanity? Because genrally being naked is a feral, uncivilised connotation
>>147105871Clothing is something done for either protection, he's invincible, or society, of which he no longer connects with. He simply doesn't see the need.
>>147105821Gordan Knott Locks
>>147105871>his failing grasp on humanityThis is why he at first wears a full set of clothes, switches to briefs to appease modesty when he can't be bothered, and then just goes totally nude when he no longer cares at all.
>>147104915I still like this book but whenever I read through it again I always think these lesbians just come out of nowhere for no particular reason and have no real impact on anything. My take on it is that Alan was completely done with the DC bureaucracy and just felt like rambling on about whatever he felt like because he knew he wouldn't be working for them for much longwer anyway.
>>147104915A bit of an overreaction but I do hate it for the opposite of your reaction, which is extremely common amongst the type of community college rejects that read watchmen in their mid 20s and pick up on things their more mature classmates who went to real college would have picked up on in high school. They see something like this and react with an IRL soijack face and run to Twitter to proclaim this is the most intelligent, sophisticated, comic ever created. Then watch a bunch of Alan moore interviews, start tweeting about HP lovecraft being problematic and acting like capeshit is below their “mid-20s but doesn’t read actual novels” intellect.
>>147105015Moore's said as much. He says Gibbons contributed a lot to Watchmen and it was a very equal collaboration. He does write extensively, but Gibbons was a close collaborator
>>147105945it wouldn't shock me if you count the pages away from the center of the book it mirrors something else
>>147106002Moore always says things that he knows will paint him as a good boy and selfless artiste. Yet he stopped speaking to gibbons over the latter embracing the film and reprints. If he actually saw him as a co-creator he wouldn’t presume to make sole decisions on the work,
>>147106114>he stopped speaking to gibbons over the latter embracing the film and reprintsFor many years, Moore gave his half of the Watchmen adaptation money to Gibbons, so it wasn't that. He cut off contact because DC was using Gibbons as a means to communicate with Moore.
>>147105945that's retarded, anon. Moore just wanted to put civilians in the narrative to emphasize it was people that died, not just empty background fodder.They might also serve to show a differing element in the world(same sex couples not being as private or controversial)
>>147105232>>147105246There's a whole arc between these two. The book is happenstance and yet it parrellels the desperation of many characters. But the reason we switch to the news stand is because everything that happens between these two characters is a result of the main 6 characters. Bernie sits there reading the comic everyday and Bernard rants at him. At some point it rains and Bernie asks to Borrow Bernad's hat to which Bernard says he doesn't help anyone and only looks after himself. Bernard goes on a rant wishing Doc Manhatten would leave if he gives people cancer. Once Doc Manhatten leaves Bernard's whole attitude changes. He gives Bernie the comic and hat for free. I think something should be pointed out. Despite having the comic Bernie comes back to the news stand and keeps reading it. This time wearing Bernard's hat. When Rorshach is sprung from jail the gang known as Top Knots plot to take revenge on a superhero because they see it in the paper. Hollis Mason is killed. There's a lot more I'm skipping but this culminates with the squid bomb which lands smack dab at the News Stand. The last thing we see of Bernie and Bernard are the two embracing.
Can someone explain the Gunga Diner Elephant? Every other reoccuring theme I get but that fucking indian cuisine flies over my head
>>147106212Good one.
>>147106114He's been saying as much since before they parted ways, though.
>>147106212It's just a world deviation.Stuff like Indian food, even Japanese or Mexican food, was still somewhat niche in the US, so having a world where it's super common immediately implies a deviation from reality.In the 90's, the Batman comics did a similar joke with Irish fast food being their version of McDonalds>in a 1987 interview, Alan Moore explained, "It was Dave Gibbons' idea to have Indian restaurants instead of McDonald's, and that made sense because there's a different political situation in this world, there's going to be wars in different places. In our story, some sort of conflict in Asia has caused a massive famine in India, so there's been a massive amount of Indian and Asian refugees teeming into America, and consequently, you've got Indian food catching on, and you've got this stream of Gunga Diners stretching across the country."
>>147106212i think it was a british thing more than anything.
>>147106212And then it's Burgers'n'Borscht
>>147106212Gunga Din
I had a post several Watchmen threads ago that I'm tempted to just copypaste. It was about how the story is kind of a critique of "superhumans" and how maybe being a "superhero" is actually bad from a human perspective.
>>147104944>It's 2025. I am reading Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan is on Mars.
>>147105945>these lesbians just come out of nowhere for no particular reasonNah I'm sure when they scissor they make a 11:53 symbol. It's all very important to the themes of the book.
>>147107665Doesnt sound wrong!
>>147105190Did you know the symbol on Doc's head is also 12:00?
>>147104915Imagine being so low IQ that the act of noticing something is uncomfortable to you. It really must hurt you to use your brain.
>>147104956Many of the artists Moore worked with highlighted the bits of the script they would use as if you read a Moore Script is a lot of Waffle that there because Moore was using a type writer a couldn't really self-edit himself on the fly to make it neater for the artist
>>147104915>an entire subplot dedicated to two dykes bitching about their toxic relationshipbravo, moore
Reminder: 90% of the "symbolism" in the book is just autists overinterpreting innocuous shit as something deeper. The 10% that was intentional is brilliant, but this is basically The Shining all over again where spergs are trying to decipher secret symbolism in the formatting of the typewriter pages or messages from the illuminati in the fucking carpet stains.
>>147106278wait is McDonald's not Irish?
>>147104915Filtered
>>147108843I mean like Irish themed, so Corned beef sandwiches instead of burgers and a bunch of potato dishes that aren't fries
interesting thread
>>147108646No, a lot more than that was intentional.
>>147105015Yes but it's not like Gibbons was just a hired gun. He was a cocreator who helped Moore work out the story and characters, and Moore's scripts always included notes like "here's how I visualise this, but if you have a better idea go with it."
>>147105871People wear clothes due to a mixture of societal shame and physical need, Manhattan doesn't need the latter so as he loses more and more of his connection to his humanity he doesn't feel obligated to indulge the former.
>>147105945They were just there to show a little bit of humanity to New York before it was callously squided
>>147108646The vast majority of the symbolism is intentional, some of it might not be particularly deep symbology like all the various smileys plastered throughout but they were still put there consciously. Lots of callbacks and parallelism as well.
>>147105485Fucking Moore and Gibbons, always adding visual details that enrich the themes of the story. What's next, you're going to tell me Veidt's declaration of victory under the painting of the Gordian knot is a visual reference to the hands of the doomsday clock and suggests he futilely only set it back a few minutes?
>>147104915In the past, OP would have been happy at discovering something new about this book. But he was born in an era where anything makes them angry...
>>147106278Gibbons did that because in 1972 Uhanda expelled Indians that moved to the UK.
>>147112247I mean Uganda. It probably left some marks on Gibbons.
>>147111914>>147105151>>147105330>>147105544>>147105991Whoooaaaaa take it easy, sweethearts. I was being wry. I don't hate Watchmen at all and I've made it a tradition to reread it every year or so. It was just sardonic.
>>147106224Oh. Yeah because the elephant is a balloon. I didn't mean it that way. I'M NOT CARLOS. I SWEAR.
>>147105232I think the vendor is meant to be Moore talking to the spergs who read this shit all the time.
>>147105485Aaaah!
I feel like we'll never get a writer of Moore's caliber in comics again, despite all of these college-educated, highly-acclaimed writers that are in the industry today. Anyone truly good will take their business elsewhere.
>>147112635>the vendor is meant to be Moore>complains the kid does nothing but read stupid picture books>when push came to shove, he died trying to protect him anywaychecks out
>>147106149Moore acted like a huge bitch and refused to allow 1963 to be reprinted so the Artists involved could have gotten some more money for their work.
>>147114474Anyone who does the slightest bit of research knows Jim Lee was the prima donna of that situation and Moore pointedly walked and refused further calls from Bisette because he and the Comics Journal would get lippy about him silently protesting that in print but not a word about the one who stuck his nose in their project only to cause the years of delays to begin with.
>>147114474Any idea why? Moore put up working for DC comics again when they bought ABC's parent company (and even let other people write his titles) because it meant they still had a paying job, paid, so not sure what might've flipped him over about 1963
>>147104915It's very lazy and doesn't capture the attitude or culture of America at the time at all. It just feels like Moore, being an envious socialist brit, angrily satirizing what he stereotypes as being the USA....Which is what he is doing.
>>147107759Here's my assessment as mentioned:I mean, aren't Rorschach, Ozymandias, and Manhattan the three most admirable figures in the entire comic? I've said this in threads before, but: they're the REAL superhumans. Only Manhattan has powers but Ozy and Rorschach have both transcended normal humanity by their devotion to absolute ideals, to the point that their devotion doesn't even get dented by the threat of the death of millions.Dan and Laurie are the normal humans and normal humans are weak. That's the point. Dan and Laurie are disgusted by mass death but are ALSO able to rationalize their way into accepting it out of convenience, whereas two of the superhumans (Manhattan and Ozy) are totally fine with it from the start, and one of them (Rorschach) is completely opposed to it, to the point that he's willing to die rather than go along with their agenda.It occurs to me that Moore could be making a commentary here on how weird a real superhuman must be. He offers us Manhattan, who is totally beyond humanity, and then he offers us Veidt and Rorschach, who are still flesh and blood but who are ultimately totally inhuman and alien in their moral judgments. Dan and Laurie are normal people. They don't "get" the superhumans of the story. A real superhuman wouldn't be "gettable" to ordinary people, either. A real Superman, a real Wonder Woman, a real Captain America, would be totally set apart from ordinary people not just by their superpowers but by their ethical and moral absolutism, because that's not how ordinary people are.Or so it seems to me.
>>147114618No, you see, you're wrong, because Rorschach is a fascist.
>>147114618Ozymanidias is a critique of the "guess I'll have to do it myself" type of superhero, which isn't Superman or Wonder Woman but more the Lex Luthor and Doom type. Rorschach is a take on the Batman or Punisher superhero, someone who is so consumed by their mission they don't have time for anything that would make them healthy, well balanced human beings.
>>147114571>doesn't capture the attitude or culture of America at the time at all.that's the point innit? It's not the real world. Things ended up different.
>>147114201No. Moore perfectly encapsulates what these university students have always been like. He's simply the one who corned the graphic novel market.
>>147114618Not admirable per se, but definitely superhuman. Dan and Laurie were caught somewhere between humanity and superhumanity.The Comedian can be argued to be in either camp, I think, since he was brain broken by the alien ordeal (some sort of ambient psychic feedback raped his brain, perhaps?), but was also an unflinching butcher himself.
>>147114618the fact that Dan and Laurie are the last superheroes alive (or active) by the end proves to me that they were the "main characters"
>>147114665So what was the Comedian if Rorshach was the Punisher archetype?
>>147115154Captain America
>>147115289That was Nite Owl. Goody Two Shoes who wants to serve justice and follows the Law except when its time to take a stand.
>>147114665you have it backwards, in my opinion. Ozy is the Batman. Can you really look at him sitting in his fortress staring at his monitors and tell me he isn't? Trying his best to get as close to Manhattan as humanly possible. And this is BEFORE Batman did the brother eye scheme and nearly fucked up the world by having the League's weaknesses leak. Rorshach? I would say Punisher is apt because he chooses on a daily basis to seperate himself from humainity. But...He thinks he's seen the grimiest parts of humanity and now he's got a God given duty to cleanse it. That would be close to Lex or someone more on the nose like The Shadow or The Spectre.
>>147115360No, the Comedian is Captain America/Nick Fury/Peacemaker/Sarge Steel/The Shield. He wears the flag and wears his own shield, and he participated in wet and black ops.Nite Owl I is Blue Beetle I/The Phantom.Nite Owl II is Blue Beetle II/Batman. A savvy inventor with too much time on his hands, and a successor to Nite Owl I, though not related by blood.
>>147114672>things ended up differentThat's not an excuse. Nixon being president for a third term is retarded, and it's hand-waved by repealing the 22nd Amendment, as if it were simply that easy. Americans also were largely were unafraid of nuclear bombs by the time of the 80's and "nuclear panic" was largely a thing of the 50's and 60's.His perceived understanding of America came from a highly stereotypical college-cultural understanding of America, akin to ivory tower politics. It's an interpretetation about America that is as wrong-headed as any Chinese propaganda film. One of the hallmarks of American political culture is its pragmatism—how solutions to problems tend to emerge from a mix of idealism and compromise. Watchmen dismisses much of this pragmatic approach in favor of portraying American politics as a morally bankrupt system. Moore’s portrayal of America feels more like an outsider critique of a place that’s perceived as overly materialistic, power-hungry, and morally compromised, because he himself is a morally bankrupt and power-hungry socialist who has an unending desire to instill his own power systems in place of capitalist ones, and America is the leading hegemon in that category. Watchmen is a propaganda piece, nothing more. Frank Miller wrote better.
>>147115599>Robin Williams>Esrape from New YorkEvery time I see this panel, something new leaps out at me.
>>147115599I don't think he would have turned down all the money and offers he has if he were so power hungry.
>>147115599Anon. The second Doctor Manhatten hits the scene everything changed. Do you not understand that? The whole Cold War hinged on Doc Manhatten's presence
>>147115599Take a bath.
>>147115599>Americans also were largely were unafraid of nuclear bombs by the time of the 80's Because in the real world we didn't have the Soviets producing even more nukes because they were terrified of being invaded by Manhattan, with the rest of the world worrying because the US has already used their pet nuke in Vietnam. I assure you that if a nuke had been dropped on Vietnam and been involved in other military situations to help the US win then people like Ozy would have been really fucking worried about a full nuclear exchange happening in the 80s because of the US doing something stupid like nuking the Soviets to save Afghanistan from the red menace. People weren't worried because nukes hadn't been used since WWII, but in Watchmen everyone knew that Manhattan was walking around being used by the US Government every day with his research, when he wasn't following darker military orders.
>>147115599>Watchmen dismisses much of this pragmatic approach in favor of portraying American politics as a morally bankrupt system. Moore’s portrayal of America feels more like an outsider critique of a place that’s perceived as overly materialistic, power-hungry, and morally compromised, because he himself is a morally bankrupt and power-hungry socialist who has an unending desire to instill his own power systems in place of capitalist ones, and America is the leading hegemon in that category.As opposed to the real america, where we bake our neighbors a fresh apple pie everyday before girding our loins for the busy task of preserving world peace and the human race.
>>147115724No it didn't. Vietnam's success hinged on America holding up its end of the bargain and offering logistical and air support like we did for South Korea. The US simply up and abandoned South Vietnam after the Paris Peace Accords.Also, winning one foreign-shore would not change the entire outset of American culture and society.
>>147116305Well in that universe an omnipresent blue god man exists.And it was’t just Vietnam that changed things. Tech advanced at a higher level, partly due to Manhattan, as well.
>>147115869>As opposed to the real america, where we bake our neighbors a fresh apple pie everyday before girding our loins for the busy task of preserving world peace and the human race.Yes.
>>147116353Those are just excuses for Moore to have an out for any perceived criticism on his portrayal of American society. He ultimately just portrayed it how he wanted to, not how it actually was, or even how it generally was. He despises America and capitalism.
>>147116489One born every minute
>>147116523who? Communists?
>>147105246Watchmen is Moore's last attempt at giving purpose to capesludge. It could be misunderstood that he hates the genre but it's more like he loves history and "superhero comics" has a distinct history with how popular it got while also being part of a monopolistic collusion between printers during a moral panic. They took advantage to 'self regulate' their industry while actually muscling out those not in the cabal and using their power as a single source of comics in the US to deliberately turn out garbage. Not only is Moore bringing back superheroes BEOFE the code destroyed them and turned them mass consumption, but he speculates a what-if about Pirate comics becoming more popular due to superheroes being both real and politically tiresome. Oddly enough this is actually happening right now and it started with the awful schlock mass marketed Watchman movie! Then MCU trash was shat out trying to appeal to the most moronic of mouth breathers which also then became politicized and tedious. The Black Freighter is also a love letter to old comics that told human stories not merely meant for kids but drama with existential dread which the CCA destroyed for a while. Of course, there are layers of irony: we only see one kid reading these kinds of stories, the writer of the particularly popular Pirate comic series was also so unknown in general (comics never becoming a moral panic in the timeline, considered just some cheap inoffensive entertainment by the public) that Ozy got the writer to help with the sci-fi backstory psychically projected during his terrorist attack, then blown up on the boat sending those artists back home and no one cared. It's not hard to see Moore's attitude being in the industry so long where he tries to offer genuine storytelling but no one EVER gives a fuck and working so hard is a waste of time that cuts into big executive profits despite the fact that DC brought him and other Brits into the company to elevate the medium.
>>147114618All of that in combination with the side characters at the news stand, the therapist and his wife and even Sally and Hollis (still mad, btw) makes me think that Moore is really trying to drive home the point that regular people are so much better than super-people. They're nuanced, they're forced to compromise and innovate, they can't just blast the Vietcong with lasers or scale a building with grappling hook.
>>147104915>>147104944>>147105016>>147105232>>147105485>>147105674>>147105821>>147113685You're not smart.
>>147117564The most reddit moment here is you, fag.
>>147117594You wanna break down star wars next you little faggot?
>>147117564Except Watchmen is literally the core reddit comic book, you accidentally posted an image that is closer to you than to OP or the other people shitting on it.
>>147117754this image blew my mind dude thats just like so right i totally get it.
I don't feel like letting a decent Watchmen thread die with those garbage posts as its last.
>>147118761some redditard is gonna make one as soon as this one dies anyways, dont worry about it anon
>>147117754Are you retarded? None of the posts quoted are shitting on Watchmen, the numbskull you are replying to is of the same opinion as you. But yes, I guess you are right: that image is a better representation of him and you than anybody else in this thread.
>>147114618>>147117406A lot of this is certainly points Moore wanted to get across.Obviously the average superhero comic reader really fucking loves superheroes. Watchmen was about a lot of things, the deconstruction element was never just “look how gritty this is it’s le real world”. But how like you say superheroes while on paper being well, Superhuman. Are less than human.If you read Moores earlier writing in Miracleman you can see the genesis of these ideas in a more simple way. Where Michael Moran/Miracleman are the main character, and while ultimately he chooses to just remain as Miracleman this is definitely a loss. A bad thing. Not an accomplishment. Especially in how he becomes more and more detached from reality as a result.Rorschach and Veidt are polar opposites in the way the far left and far right end up acting in the same way. They are superhumans in the sense they do not envision reality the way human beings are meant to. This has driven Rorschach mad, trying to impose order on a naturally disordered world, and driven Veidt to mad actions in the belief he can control the world as a benevolent shadowy ruler. At least Rorschach is cognisant enough to realise his never ending battle doesn’t actually fix the overall problems, and still sees value in the scummy people of the city he hates enough to sacrifice his life to try and save them.Plus, Rorschach while obviously not some supergenius like Veidt. Is shown in his school reports as very intelligent, and in his investigative work and tactics as very cunning and intuitive. The fact some half crazed hobo leaving his diary at a newspaper is all it took to destroy Veidts master plan shows just how weak Veidt really was behind his veneer of being above normal human concerns.
>>147117406It's a nice scene and good argument against the cynicism in both Veidt and Rorschach. All of the side characters intervening to stop that fight and help out is a direct challenge to the idea of the bystander effect which grew out of the Kitty Genovese murder story. At its core bystander effect is a very negative view of humans. Kitty's story is what initially drives Rorschach, not to mention her dress being the basis for his mask in-universe. Now I'm not sure if Moore knew this at the time of writing the script but the reporting on the Genovese murder was called into question since. Turns out it was overly embellished and inaccurate to sell a more shocking story. The time frame was much shorter and multiple people actually intervened. Rorschach would have no way of knowing this as he only heard about the reported story after the fact.Veidt also falls into a disconnected and pessimistic view of humanity. Being extremely rich he doesn't exactly have any reason to hang out with the rabble. Throughout the comic we see that he gets a pulse on the world by watching a wall of television screens. In this way he's getting a filtered view of humanity through news media which, if we consider the Genovese story, can be unreliable and misleading. It makes sense then that someone who evaluates humanity based on news coverage and commercials would come up with a theatrical solution without a care to the harms it inflicts on those regular people like the ones at the newsstand who thought "the world fucking sucks but I should at least try to do something."
>>147106184You could also argue that there is a statement about time there. That spot is only "important" in one instant, when the squid destroys it, but Moore is fleshing out that it is a place that existed before, and will exist after, it's one "important moment."
>>147114554He finished out the ABC stuff because of contractual obligations, he was really, really pissed off about that at the time.
>>147114618I think the whole thing is Moore pointing out how stupid the idea of "realistic" comics or superheroes are. The most capable one among them is actually the villain, and the villain isn't some mustache twirling murderhobo, he honestly believes that what he is doing is right. He even says it, he's not some villain in a Republic Serial, "real" villains don't act like that. Rorschach is the grim'n'gritty 80's Antihero with a noir internal monologue and a dedication to the mission, but in reality he is just a sad bum who doesn't seem very good at actually fighting crime or being a detective. He kind of offhand dismisses Ozy pretty early on, and we don't see him actually do much beyond kill a couple of low level thugs.Doc Manhatten is a really interesting one to me because I kind of wonder if it's a statement about the absurdity of continuity? You can't have Superman actually solve any problems or change things too much, because then it wouldn't be "the world outside your window" anymore. So Manhatten is a slave to his own timeline, he can see the whole thing but he is utterly incapable of actually effecting any change. Like Superman fighting Luther over and over again, but aware of it, just going through the motions.
Nice.
Two Watchmen threads >>147120140Something fishy about all the anti-Moore sentiment. Seems like some of the Moore haters are Gaymanfags.
>>147120276Possibly homosexuals. Must investigate further.
Read Peter Cannon
>>147117754>LOOK AT THIS INFOGRAPH>EVERY TIME YOU DO PLEASE KYS
>>147114618Rorschach was opposed to it solely because it was American lives, he had no issue dropping H bombs as long as it's not in his backyard.
>>147120276I think they are Johnsfags. After his Green Lantern war story and Doomsday he and his fans think he plays n the same league but doesnt get the praise.
>>147115599Biggest smoothbrain on this board right now.
>>147119712>Now I'm not sure if Moore knew this at the time of writing the script but the reporting on the Genovese murder was called into question since. Turns out it was overly embellished and inaccurate to sell a more shocking story.The truth has been known since the start, but no one cares to remember it.Kitty was helped right away by an older woman living in the project housing. That old women called for more help and more people from the surrounding area came to help as well. By then it was pretty much too late since she was cut up super bad, but it doesn't change the fact that there really wasn't anything unusual about Kitty's case whatsoever, aside from the fact that she was a victim of violence in an area known for criminality while working in a profession known to be dangerous.
>>1471145541963 became such an awkward situation I think he simply chose to twiddle his thumbs and walk away
>>147117754>Interstellar>Rick and MortyThis is perfect.
>>147121106It was okay.
>>147121378I fully believe that Rorschach would've gone after Nixon with the quickness had he known of his possible involment with the Dallas Assassination and Watergate
>>147119712Hmmm. Something just stands out to me about Rorschach and Genovese. He obviously has something against rapists and sexual predators. Yet when it came to the Comedian and what he was accused of he called it a simple "moral lapse". Was he meant to be a woman hating maniac? Because of so why did Genovese affect him so?
>>147123577Because comedian was american and he was part of the boys club just fucking up gooks like it's nothing. When confronted in American soil with rape he shows he's just a coward.
>>147123487He wouldn't have done anything, just observe and report. Don't meet your heroes.
>>147123577Rorschach is repeatedly shown to be a hypocrite. Much like a Rorschach test, he paints the world in black and white but repeatedly shows that picture to be suggestive and open to interpretation. Even his stark terms are flexible.
>>147123738Just like they turned Blake into JFK's killer they would've made Raw Shark into Deep Throat
>>147125106Elaborate
>>147125257Deep Throat AkA Mark Felt was an FBI agent who leaked all of Nixon's underhanded dealings to reporters.
>>147116489He's just wearing the shirt to trigger dumb boomers who get scared and angry over the sickle and hammer.Alan Moore likes to provoke, if you really don't like the guy, you do worse to feed into his attempts to shock and anger.He almost certainly has socialist leanings, but thinking he's an actual Soviet learning commie is dumb
>>147123577>Was he meant to be a woman hating maniac? Because if so why did Genovese affect him so?Rorschach is traumatized by his childhood, that's the root of his misogyny. His life was marked by a mother who never offered him the love and warmth he so needed and only exposed him to the worst excesses of a prostitute's life, and this manifests in his treatment of the opposite sex. He rants about women calling them words like "whores" and describes their naked bodies as something which litters the streets. He complains about Laurie’s costume and generally avoids interacting with women beyond some form of detached politeness. I don't think I need to go over him siding with Blake over his attempted rape of Sally and how he dismisses her own daughter.Yet, as with much about Rorschach, a lot of this is at odds with what he actually does. His deeds constantly seem to betray his own words and suggest a deep, even if subconscious, concern for women. He dons a woman's dress as his mask, and his decision to become a vigilante stems from pitying said woman’s murder. And it's not just Genovese's death that has such impact on Rorschach: he becomes obsessed with the disappearance of a little girl, and the truth of not being capable of preventing her death is what pushes him over the edge. We directly see him save women from criminals while relishing in their terror . Even when he vocally condemns prostitutes, he pointedly ignores them and refrains from punishing them in any way, as if recognizing their circumstances place them outside his rigid worldview.Walter Kovacs is a deeply broken man burdened by mental illness who surrounds himself in coping mechanisms, no shit. But in spite of it all, at his core he remains well-meaning, always sacrificial and willing to help others. It all goes back to the contrast between his opening diary entry and how he chooses to die.
>>147126371>Walter Kovacs>W>Alter>KO>VacsAnti vacs truther message. Genius.
>>147126371Does he actually help anyone in the course of the entire book?
>>147116489Manhattan isn't an excuse, he's the premise of the fucking story
>>147126819He saves a woman from being assaulted in one of the chapters. He warns the other former vigilantes of a potential killer that may target them.
>>147107665That point also gets stated in his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen books. In the last issue of the final volume, Moore has an elderly Sherlock Holmes state to Mina Murray that the world isn’t safe with the existence of such beings.
>>147126819yeah>>147126371You did miss something. His Landlord. If it wasn't brutally obvious he was fucking her for rent. Hold on
>>147126371i could be wrong about that but this interaction feels slightly deeper than how it's written
>>147127775>that lookFuck, man...
>>147126522Nice find.
>>147127740Ehhh I don't think that's the implication you were meant to take away…
>>147127740>If it wasn't brutally obvious he was fucking her for rent.You're gonna have to elaborate on your thinking here, bud.
>>147131369Walter is broke as shit but still lived there. The mixed race kids show the woman is a bit promiscuos. And a guy like Walter would surround himself with a woman who reminds him of his mother.
>>147126522No, he is named after Marvels Korbac!
>>147133133I mean Korbac.
>>147133142Wait, i wrote it correct. But it changed again?Test Korvac test!
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>>147104947Debatable
Actually, the Gordian Knot is a terrible image to associate with your locks.
>>147132310Being a prostitute seems like it'd chafe in various ways with such an arrangementProbably the room is cheap to begin with
>>147134932also wouldn't that make Rorshach the whore?
>>147134923and Trojan is a bad name to associate with condoms, yet here we are.
>>147135978Damn, i actually didn't notice till you said it. Only 99.9% effective.
>>147132310Yeah, I don't think so, my dude.
>>147112273>Stimulate yourself with Uganda's finest coffee
>>147136266Jungle fever!
>>147136266But AIDS.
>>147123577Because humans aren't black and white, even if Rorschach thinks he is
>>147127775This scene always gets me. This should've been in the movie
>>147104915Wait is the person on the right a woman
What the fuck?
