the last thread got archived edition>What language(s) are you learning?>Share language learning experiences!>Ask questions about your target language!>Help people who want to learn a new language!>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!>Make friends!Read the wiki:https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_WikiUseful links:>Free language-learning book archive:https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw>Books on linguistics and language courses:https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua>Torrents with more resources than you'll ever need for 30 plus languages:https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH>List of trackers for most language-learning packs:https://files.catbox.moe/nmrn8x.txt>Ukrainianon's list of commercial courses from rutracker.org:https://archive(dot)is/R2feT>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by familyhttps://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/>/lang/ inpoot torrentshttps://rentry.org/inpootFAQ U:>How do I learn a language? What is the best way to learn one? How should I improve on certain aspects?Read the damn wiki>Should I learn language Y so I can learn language X?Yes>What is the most useful language?Romani>What language should I learn?Classical Arabic>Can I learn X, Y and Z language at the same time?Only if they're whiteOld thread:>>201870039Previous challenge:>>201703358
holy european hours
>>201896000reminds me of the armenian script
Why aren't you learning Gibberish Arabic yet?
>>201898713too busy mastering gibberish greek
greek hours
>>201898959But it's very easy. You just need to know English
>>201899807Not always... we have to crack the code
Learn Koreanhttps://youtu.be/BchAwK6BrRg?si=7Zto47hAqSVtyolr
Good morning Friday morning
>>201902216>?si=
>>201903338so what? i don't get it
>>201903494It's extra data Google tacks on for tracking. It's best just to remove it whenever you share a yt link.
>HSK 4>Never spoke to a Chinese person>Nowhere near China>Closed country>Simplified Chinese, so can't most material.what am I doing bros
>>201904228>cant read most historical material*
>>201904228But bro, think about all the gacha that you'll never actually bother to play in Chinese
>>201904337I might play Genshin in Chinese. If I play it slow, I can all it studying an an 'immersive' environment
>>201904280the scripts aren't dissimilar enough for that to be your problem
what words, prefixes or sufixes, particles, morphemes, etc you wish were adopted into english from your tl?
Why is it that Dominicans love to message me so much on Hellotalk compared to other nationalities? Mexicans come second
>>201904899I wish English had Polish diminutive and augmentative suffixes.
Took a few days off. 152 reviews this morning.Let's get at 'em, boys.
>>201905622Why
>>201905335at least you get messages. Deutschas never message me
>>201905335>>201908433I remember using Tandem more back in the day, but now it's such a pain to start my accounts back up.
>>201908433It's nothing personal, we're just autistic.
https://youtu.be/dVTxt5K8YZoDo you think Sam Altman makes excessive vocal fly?
HelloTalk's app design reminds me of temu and aliexpress
>>201911887This. It's so wild and I don't remember it ever being that bad.
>>201912009>founder is from HKit all makes sense now
>>201912143I knew the App was from China but I didn't know that. I honestly would have expected better from them.
>>201906995who is this girl, I keep seeing her in stuff about djt and such
>>201896000salvēte, omnēs oppidānī!ECCE! VIDĒ! in linguā laō, et in linguā latinā, multus numerī sunt. in linguā latinā, numerī sunt ūnus, duo, trēs, quattuor, quīnque, et ceterī.numerus sex in linguā laō impostor est.
Is this the ultimate crossover of codetards and lingotards
>>201913778My girlfriend
in your TL, how would you say>Averi is such a cute fox, I want to hug her fluffy tail
Learning SpanishMostly doing input, Anki and some Duolingo.For input I am using Dreaming Spanish, Extra, some learning podcasts, YouTube vidsAnki - Refold 1K and Top 5K wordsWant to add reading but waiting until I finish the Anki decks so I could start reading something more interesting than graded readers (probably Harry Potter like everyone else)Am I on the right track?
>>201896000Do any of you who study multiple languages at once translate a singular piece of text from your native language as part of your training? If so, what text do you translate?
>>201918086yeah just don't read schoolgirl slop and jump to something good like don quixote
>>201918318I translate from one TL to another TL to score extra points
New Challenge:>EasyPeople have used different tools to write throughout historyMy favourite writing system is LaoShe likes readings books on calligraphyHe uses a pencil to take notesIn the past, people would write letters by hand>Less EasyThe alphabet was developed to simplify writingMany of the modern Indian and Southeast Asian writing systems evolved from the ancient Brahmi ScriptAncient inscriptions can be found on monuments and artifacts>Least EasyThe transition from logographic to phonetic writing systems revolutionized communication.Ancient scripts, such as cuneiform and hieroglyphics, provide valuable insights into early civilizationsThe evolution from Brahmi to modern scripts shows the adaptability of writing systems in response to linguistic and cultural changes.
>>201918393I'll try but not sure if my vocab is going to be enough
I think my anki reps are better when done at night rather than in the morning but sometimes I'm too lazy to do it at nightAnyone else the same?
>>201920170anki makes me feel like i'm about to drop dead from sleep every other card
bump
>>201908301They're extremely useful.
PSL ANONS WE FOUND A GEMMYhttps://6obcy.orghttps://6obcy.orghttps://6obcy.orghttps://6obcy.orgIt's like omegle but text-only and in Polish
wubi is discriminatory towards 儿化
>>201908301Allow me to conjure an image demonstrating the differences between Polish diminutive and augmentative suffixes.You can do this with any word and it can be useful, as well as creative and playful.
>>201923236how come the root form is not the one used for the normal size
>>201918318Never have>>201918393greekbro I want to learn Greek what book should I use, found this one in Italian. Also heard of Ταξιδι στην Ελλαδα but shipping costs are a bitch
>>201918663>FacílAs pessoas usavam ferramentas diferentes através da historiaMinha sistema de escrita favorita é Lao(?)Ela gosta de ler livros sobre caligrafia*Ele usa um lápis* para pegar anotaçõesNo passado, as pessoas escreviam cartas a mãoNão conheço quase metade das palavras nesse desafio e tinha que procurar lápis por que sempre a esqueço. Sempre acho que é "azúl" e não sei por que>>201917554Averi é uma raposa tão fofa, quero abraçar a cauda felpuda dela>>201888572O cara está escrevendo desafios que posso fazer, então é melhor do que nada né? Muitos desafios hoje em dia têm palavras que jamais encontrarei e não quero traduzir muitas palavras, é trapaça
>>201923620It happens with a minority of words, especially ones wherein there are 2 conceptualized large sizes, but 1 small size.
>>201924005>Minha sistema de escrita favorita é Lao(?)*meu sistema de escrita favoritoSistema is a masculine word (yes I know it ends in -a, it's one of those exceptions). O sistema, meu sistema, seu sistema, etc. >Ele usa um lápis* para pegar anotaçõesThis sentence makes sense and people would understand you, but it's more natural to say "fazer anotações" imo, as in making notes. "Pegar anotações" can come off as somewhat janky since it sort of gives an image of you physically grabbing notes somehow.My grandpa was a Swede who setup the Monark bicycle company's presence here, shame he's dead though, but there's a Brazil-Sweden connection :)
This>C1>A person understands difficult texts, including the ability to recognize hidden meanings. But also this>A1>A person can have a simple conversation, provided that the other person speaks clearly and slowly.
>>201917554Averi ist ein unglaublich niedlicher Fuchs und ich kann dem Drang danach kaum widerstehen, ihren flauschigen Schwanz zu umarmen. (meiner Meinung nach sind Furries widernatürlich und aufgrund der düsteren Aussichten was deren Heilung angeht ist die alleinige gebliebene Lösung zu der immer zunehmenden Furry-Bedrohung Massenhinrichtungen von allen Betroffen Menschen. Leider ist das aus meiner Sicht der einzige Weg nach vorne, der sich uns bietet.)
My confidence in English got kinda ruined
>>201924769link
my wife chino... I WANT TO FUCK CHINOplease chino is so cute my wife chino is so cute chino chan sex chino sex with chino i'd like some more kafuu chino sex with chino kafuu chino my wife cute is so chino wife
>>201924769I'd kill to get that score in my TL.
>>201924365>Sistema is a masculine wordI must've glossed over this when I had it show up on Anki in the past, oops>fazer anotaçõesFaz sentido, valeu>My grandpa was a Swede who setup the Monark bicycle company's presence hereComo é a presença da marca Monark atualmente? Ainda há elas no Brasil? Aqui, não sei que vejo uma assim faz tempo mas também não tô checando para a marca das bicicletas>there's a Brazil-Sweden connection :)Vi isso em abril quando era no cidade, parece que o ligação ainda existe aqui também
>>201924798You need to pay $300 and take an exam on site though. Then ETS will notify your score on their website.
>>201924802I think people living in English speaking country should get 100/120 at minimum, assuming that they have enough reading comprehension skills
>>201924845you paid 300usd for that?
>>201924912Yeah
>>201918663Seit grauer Vorzeit haben Menschen verschiedene Werkzeuge zur Schreibung in der Hand genommen. Mein Lieblingsschreibsystem ist Laos. Sie liest gern Bücher die um Kalligraphie gehen. Er benutzt einen Bleistift, um sich Notizen zu machen. Früher hätten Leute Briefe mit der Hand geschrieben. Das Alphabet wurde zur Vereinfachung des Schreibens entwickelt. Einige der modernen Indisch- und südostasiatischen Schreibsysteme haben sich aus der uralten brahmischen Schrift entwickelt. Uralte Inschriften finden sich auf Denkmalen und Artefakten. Der Übergang von logographischen zu lautlichen Schreibsystemen war eine weltbewegende Kommunikationsentwicklung. Urschriften, wie Keilschrift und Hieroglyphen, bieten uns hochwertige Einblicke in den frühesten entstehenden Zivilisationen der Menschengeschichte. Die Weiterentwicklung der modernen Schriften aus der Urschrift Brahmisch macht die Anpassungsfähigkeit von Schreibsystemen als Antwort auf sprachlichen und kulturellen Wandel deutlich.
>>201924884Did you ever take a vocabulary test that estimates your total vocabulary?
>>201924800unglaublich basiert
>>201918663In de Loop van höre Geschichten hebben de Minsken unglieke Wartüüge to dat Schrieven bruukenMien Leevkeschriftsysteem is LaoSe leest geerne Boken över KalligraphieHe bruukt enen Pottlood üm sük Anmarkens to makenIn de Haasktieden wurren Minsken de Breven mit de Hand schrevenDat Alphabet wurr entwickelt üm dat Schireven to VereenfackenVööle van de röttene indiske un soodoostasiatiske Schriftsysteem hebben sük ut de olde Brahmi-Schrift entwickelt Olde Inschriften finnen sük up Monumenten un Artefaakten
>>201924769you're doing fine, imoit's unfair that your native language kinda determines how you'll sound in your TL>>201924912that's the official, on-site ets toeflan expensive scam, but it's required to apply to some universities
>>201924829>Como é a presença da marca Monark atualmente? Ainda há elas no Brasil? Aqui, não sei que vejo uma assim faz tempo mas também não tô checando para a marca das bicicletasPara ser sincero, não faço ideia, eu não presto muita atenção nisso. Acho que a Caloi virou a marca mais conhecida de bicicletas aqui, mas tenho certeza de que as pessoas ainda reconhecem “Monark” como uma marca.>>there's a Brazil-Sweden connection :)>Vi isso em abril quando era no cidade, parece que o ligação ainda existe aqui tambémayyyTambém conheci algumas pessoas que conheceram a atual rainha da Suécia quando ela era criança/adolescente.
>>201925584>it's unfair that your native language kinda determines how you'll sound in your TLRumor has it Russians can learn Portuguese with very good pronunciations because of our shared phonology at least
>>201915762amogus is canonically latin
>>201918663역사 내내 쓰기 위해서 인간은 다른 기구를 이용합니다좋아하는 문자가 한글입니다그녀는 서예의 책을 읽는 걸 좋아해요그가 노트를 하려고 연필 사요해예전에 인간은 손으로 편지 적었다알파벳이 쓰기 쉽게 하기 위해 만들어젔어요많은 인도와 동남 아시아의 문자가 브라흐미 문자에서 변화했습니다
>>201924769군대에서 토플 120점대에 가까운 애들 많이 봤는데 아침 6시에 일어나서 영어 원서 읽고, 사지방에서 Geopolitic 같은 주제로 영어로 글쓰고 있더라.나는 안쳐봄.
>>201926467ㅁㅊ네
>>201926560ㅇㅇ 어학병중에 미친놈
>>201926627어학병이면 원래 토플 110점대 나오는 얘들이 가는 거 아님? 진짜 영어에 미쳤네
>>201926712꼭 그런건 아니고 토플 성적 없어도 갈수있는데 한국대학 해외대학 반반쯤 섞여있는거같고 해외대학중에서 가끔씩 최상위 인류같은 애들 좀 섞여있었음
Is there any software/app where you speak into a microphone and the computer corrects your pronunciation?
>>201927224
>>201927224you can brute force it with google translate, keep on trying to say it until you're correct.
guāngyú = en cuanto
>>201918086Buy some Classicos para Niños. I'm reading La Iliada now and will follow that up with La Odisea.
>>201925405https://www.oxfordonlineenglish.com/english-level-test/vocabularyJust took one, and it says my vocab is about B1; although it seems like it mostly tests day-to-day vocabs (get to vs go to, rush hour vs peak time, gasoline-petrol, etc.)
>>201923622First and foremost use the links in the OP. Teach Yourself and Colloquial Greek are not half bad. Don't worry about shipping costs because honestly everything is available for free.
>>201928623https://www.vocabularytester.com/vocabulary-testI took another one, and it says my vocab size is about 20k.
>>201918086immersiondon't be afraid to make your own sentences or turn on spanish TV. there are a lot of songs whose lyrics you can translate
>>201919025Don Quixote is good for understanding and reading comprehension but then again, I speak Spanish. it IS the hardest thing in spanish to read.do attempt it though, I also liek to read my bible in my target languages. I own a reina valera antigua. spanish hasn't changed much since the 1500s
>>201927224there is nothing wrong with the resources available to you. Learning a language is tough, it takes grit. youtube and google translate are a gift from heaven.
>>201904899Non-existence of articles and pronouns (remove she, he, they)
>>201918086I started reading news articles when I wasn't good enough to read books yet, they're surprisingly easy and for mexican news they're usually pretty fun (always wacky fun behedings cartel shenanigans going on.)Basically you ARE going to have to learn to read with some simpler stuff first, reading is a skill. Know enough vocab and maybe it will just take less time.
>>201929007>>201918086Oh and to add onto this start watching things in spanish on youtube as soon as possible, not "learning" content but native-level content. Youtube will start recommending you stuff and it's easy to just scroll through youtube videos at that point even if you don't understand what they're saying.One of the hardest jumps is from "tutorial" videos to native-level videos so the sooner you start at native stuff the better - you can still do the tutorial videos but throw in some hard native ones regularly.
>>201917554ame averi manko amor sexo averi
>>201927224how would that even work?
>>201928771>it IS the hardest thing in spanish to readAkschually:https://www.vicentellop.com/TEXTOS/miocid/miocid.htmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3ssG1ozYc
>>201929724I'd also argue that «Historia verdadera de la conquista de la Nueva España» is a bit harder than Don Quijote: https://www.rae.es/sites/default/files/Aparato_de_variantes_Historia_verdadera_de_la_conquista_de_la_Nueva_Espana.pdf
>这张照片是我姐姐十一岁那年照的, 那时她正读五年级, 照片上的姐姐又黑又瘦, 看看正在的姐姐, 又高又漂亮, 大家都喜欢她.what exactly does 黑 mean here? skin color? kinda weird sentence desu
>>201923236It's not useful in any way, you can just say small or big [something], it just increases the complexity of the language without much benefit.
>>201917554Фypфaги тaкиe oтвpaтитeльныe пидopacы, я хoчy зaливaть их пылaющим нaпaлмoм.
Why are Chilean faggots so hard to understand?
Got a retail job in east la, when I do checkout it's like a 50 percent chance that person only speaks Spanish. so far I can almost understand everything the person says but my speech is so far behind that they get confused when I talk or I simply do not know the words to say.I must say this is probably the most frustrating part of language learning. I struggle mightly with the tapped R for some reason every following all the 'butter' tricks on YouTube. I can't do the rolling R at all but aside from those (and probably some mispronounation of B/V and D).I'd say my vocab is probably 1 to 2k based on my Anki deck.It's also frustrating because I'm Mexican but grew up in the suburbs so I have a non Chicano accent, and I look like a cholo. People are confused why I don't know Spanish. I had a guy get mad at me today like I was some kind of disgrace.
>>201930546Meanwhile, I have latinos and chicanos act like they’ve seen a ghost when they see me, a black person speak Spanish, even though countries like the DR or Puerto Rico exist lol
>>201930546How many people speak spanish in LA
>>201930864wrong question, you should ask how many people speak english in la
>>201930864it's hard to say because LA is so big, I'd say 80 percent of East LA. West LA has more whites, but East LA (SGV, really) has a large Asian population and them and the Mexicans get along fairly well often working together.
>>201930546Maybe you should learn the words that are specific to your job. There's a reason why there are different programs for English (Business English, Conversation English etc).
>>201929819yes it means her skin is dark
>>201925659Conheço um homem que se encontrou com o rei. Era tipo um "make a wish" situação pq o cara subiu um golo de fotebal e tudo derrubou en cima dele kkkk Ele recuperou mas a gente nunca deixou a história ser esquecido durante o tempo que eu conhecia-o
>>201928720being chronically online paid offI still speak like a retard though
page 9
>>201928720A bit too easy and doesn't test low-frequency everyday objects, which is where ESLs truly struggle (a big pet peeve of mine with these tests).
Я yчил pyccкий язык вo вpeмя кapaнтинa. Teпepь я вcё зaбыл. Хoтeлocь бы вepнyтьcя к этoмy языкy cнoвa. Пoдcкaжитe пoжaлyйcтa гдe нaйти pecypcoв для cлышит или гoвopит pyccкий язык кaк Фильмoв c pyccкими cyбтитpaми и тп
>>201934884> low-frequency everyday objectslike what?
>>201934975He знaю, бyдyт ли y тeбя тpyднocти co cкaчивaниeм чepeз тoppeнт, нo вoт, дepжи.https://rutracker.org/forum/index.php?c=2https://rutracker.org/forum/index.php?c=18Cyбтитpы, пpaвдa, ecть нe y вceгo.
>>201935393For example, a native 8 year old would be able to name almost all of these, while most non-natives would struggle naming more than half.
>>201935478I knew most of these but the ones I didn't I don't know in polish too, I'm not a chef or a cook lol
>>201935643>I'm not a chef or a cookThat's the point. You tend to have a broader vocabulary in your native language when it comes to stuff that is of no interest to you. I used cooking as an example, because most people don't cook, but it could be anything. I also know most of these words in English, but I didn't know them when I passed my English C2 exam 16 years ago.
>>201935752I get what you mean but it would be weird to include words related to niche topics, most people don't know the vocabulary used in engineering, programming, law, or weightlifting.
>>201935848I don't think it would be weird at all when the test claims to be able to test one's vocabulary in the range of 30+K words. There was a site where you would look up a word and it would tell you how rare it was, but I don't remember what it was called. A lot of so called niche words ended up being in the top 20K most used words.
>>201936041I think these tests should test your language abilities and competence, not some useless vocab related to plants or names of muscles. I don't know how to say traps or hamstrings in polish, does it mean I can't speak my native language?
>>201936166>I think these tests should test your language abilities and competence, not some useless vocab related to plants or names of muscles.The issue is that if they don't do that, they will most likely overestimate your vocabulary size. I have the Easier English Student Dictionary which has about 32K words and it does have plant and tree terms like fern, fir and acorn (just checked).>I don't know how to say traps or hamstrings in polish, does it mean I can't speak my native language?No, it simply means that you mainly watch fitness content in English.
>>201896000Russian is so cute they just say ñe all the time.
>>201935752I cook everyday but I have no fucking idea what are the tools called. Not even in my NL. I just grab them and use them, I don't have to refer to them by names lmao
>>201936684speaking a language ≠ knowing a lot of words.You'll learn the 10-15k most common words used in almost every field and subject, but the niche specialized words you'll learn when you need them, e.g. you work in IT, so you'll learn the words related to that field, or you're interested in biology, so you'll learn the words used in literature related to biology. It is retarded to learn words that you don't need and don't come across because you have to know a certain number of words.
as someone who speaks both Swedish and English (because bong family) fluently I kind of want to try picking up Germanmain reasons being a) I have a German friend, and b) I've been listening to a lot of German music and want to understand what they're sayinghow difficult would this be considering the languages I already know and is it even worth it?got loads of time on my hands and would be willing to give it a serious attempt, would actually be pretty funny to be able to converse with my friend in his native language
>>201938070>how difficult would this benot hard at all>is it even worth ityou decide
>>201930176>affixes... are le complex!Stop.
If English had better spelling and only 3 tenses, it would be the best language from a learner's perspective, you don't have to memorize stupid and arbitrary noun genders, there are no cases that complicate everything for no reason.Why is English so goated?
>>201935478When you cook or bake anything, find a recipe in TL
>>201937939>speaking a language ≠ knowing a lot of words.Correct, but the more you are exposed to a language, the more your vocabulary size will increase. Regardless, you are missing the point. I was criticizing the test's accuracy. When I tested myself using the Easier English Student Dictionary, I knew about 75.5% of the random words I looked up (sample size of 200 words). That's roughly equivalent to a vocabulary size of 24K and not 36.7K like that online test suggests.
>>201938378It adds unnecessary complexity and is completely useless, I'm fortunate that I don't have to learn this shit.
>>201938584It is not unnecessary, not complex and not useless.
>>201938606It is. Somehow other languages I know don't have it and are off for it.
>>201938686They're not better off for it. If you talked about those things you'd only use one word in English for all of them. People would get confused about what bowls etc. they should use. It is a problem that happens occasionally.
>>201938518I forgot about limited verb declantion
>>201938518Yeah but knowing English makes you vulnerable for westoid globohomo propaganda.
>>201938518English has 2 tenses. Aspects and moods aren't tenses.
>>201938735It never happens, you're just making shit up because you have to suck polish's dick. Besides no one uses it, I don't remember when was the last time I've heard 'miseczka' and I've never heard 'micha', hope it will disappear from the language.
>>201938735>Hello Poleaf I want a small bowl>I can't understand you Amerimutt!!!This has never happened
>>201938797English have 3 tenses. Past, present, and future.
>>201938774That's true but they translate it into every language anyway, if you live in the west you can't escape it unless you're gonna live in a cabin in the woods.
>>201938832English does not have the future tense. Think about it, verbs and sentences do not change when you talk about the future. The only difference is the use of will/shall, the rest of the sentence is present tense
>>201938816>>201938822It does happen. Someone will tell you to get a bowl, you'll bring it, and you bring a smaller bowl than needed, then someone will say "no, I need a big bowl", so you have to go back and get a bigger bowl.>Besides no one uses it,I thought it was "complex"?>>201938832"will" is an auxiliary verb, "going to" is auxiliary verb. That's as much of a tense as "can" or "may".
>>201938918It complicates the language, I don't give a shit because I learned polish as child. I fortunately don't have to think about this, it flows naturally.
>>201938918You have absolutely no idea how conversations work in practice. Move to Poland already, they need backup on the toilet staff.
>>201938797People call them tenses so I do too.English would be better if there was just one past or future tense, I don't care about distant past, near past, something that was started in the past and hasn't finished etc.
>>201938992Prefixes and suffixes are not at all any more complicated than a single word each. Anything you're saying is "complicating" a language, the language is richer and more nuanced for. Would you have had your panties in a knot over any other answer to this question >>201904899 ? >>201938998This is something that happens occasionally. Go outside.>>201939097We're in a language learning community. You should use the correct terms. Or is that too complex?
>>201939110I speak 2 languages that have dimunitives everyday with natives. We don't use them to differentiate sizes. Stop.
>>201939110They function as tenses. The words get their meaning from how people use them, not from some reddit linguist who tells me to use it how he defined it.
>>201939181"misa" and "miska" are both very commonly used.>>201939194No, they function as aspects, because that is what they are.
>>201939181He just doesn't know, he thinks that every retarded thing he finds in Polish grammar is used all the time by natives.
I hate learning English
>>201939234So "miska" isn't used?
>>201938918>"will" is an auxiliary verb, "going to" is auxiliary verb. So? Is a tense something that has to be strictly conjugated?
>>201939205No, it is not. I never hear 'misa'.
>>201939194You think of them as tenses because you're ESL and that's your coping mechanism for not understanding the grammar.>>201939205And yet a native is proving you otherwise.
>>201939248Miska is, other forms are not.
>>201939264Yes."will" and "to be going" are verbs in present tense.>>201939266That doesn't line up with what you said here >>201938816 and I've seen "misa" quite a lot in reading.
>>201939298Is it "complex" or is it "never used"? Choose one.
>>201939309Notice how he doesn't mention miska in >>201938816Can you even read in English?
>>201939359He never said anything about "misa" in there. He's fibbing.
>>201939309I'm no linguist but the wikipedia definition says otherwise> In grammar, tense is a category that expresses time reference. Tenses are usually manifested by the use of specific forms of verbs, particularly in their conjugation patterns.Both "will" and the verb are expressed in the present tense but combined they express something about the future, which is a different time reference.
>>201939309How doesn't it line up, because I didn't mention it?Miska is a standard word used all the time, others are almost never used. I use diminutive only when I want to belittle something.
>>201939390>particularly in their conjugation patterns."will" is conjugated as a present tense verb.
>>201939390There is a difference between tense (the practical concept) and tense (the grammatical concept).English has 2 grammatical tenses. You can use will + present tense to talk about the future, but that doesn't make it grammaticaly future tense
>>201939348You're a retard. It unnecessary complicates a language that was my claim. Not that it's difficult to produce for native speakers.
>>201939406>I use diminutive only when I want to belittle something."miska" is diminutive of "misa". I thought diminutives were never used?
Am I retarded, or...Can someone tell me how it is acceptable or reasonable to have 4 initials in Chinese be identical in two pairs?x-shq-chhttps://youtu.be/ExSk3shaHOE?si=ISRvSj9Ko5iazXAu&t=13compare. It is obvious they are trying to change it where they remove any "sh" sound in "x" and make it more a "xs" sounds, but the normal chinese speaker becomes incomprehensible when he starts using words with these initials.
>>201939452Miska is a standard word retard. Misa in almost never used. Now fuck off, you will never speak polish.
>>201939452Dimunitives are used to invent new words, not to differentiate betwen sizes. It just so happened that miska became the default word for what was once misa in Slavic languages.
>>201939451Is it complicated or is it never used? It can't be both. I bet you think -szy verbs ("zjadłszy") are "unnecessary complication" too (but also "never used"). Why would you post on /lang/, you are clearly incapable of learning a second language other than English.
>>201939412>"will" is conjugated as a present tense verb.Then why do you say "he will go" and not "he wills go"? Auxiliary verbs work differently.
>>201939483"miska" is diminutive of "misa". You can tell because it has the diminutive suffix -ka, while "misa" has no suffix. So you do often use diminutive forms.>>201939500>Dimunitives are used to invent new wordsAnd that's awesome. >>201939581Same reason that you say "he can go" and not "he cans go".
>>201939581Because he's a retard that knows jack shit about English let alone Polish
>>201939412>Tenses are usually manifested>usually>>201939446I don't see why you have to differentiate between the two. "will + verb" is a grammatical construct that means something different than the sum of its parts. Unless by grammatical tense you mean different verb form, then sure. If so then you're right about the 2 grammatical tenses but it's a useless thing to state because you still have to learn more practical tenses (but at least they're easy).
>>201934975Consider games instead. In movies the subtitles rarely exactly correspond to what's being said.
>>201939656In linguistics it is absolutely necessary to differentiate between pure grammar and language usage because the two are rarely identical. You may say κάπια like "kapsha" in rapid speech (language usage) but it is clear that it should be pronounced "kapia" in the standard language (pure grammar). Definitions of tenses, aspects and moods work in the same way.For future tense in particular, in English you just use an auxiliary + present tense. That does not make it a new tense because it's grammatically in the present even if the meaning is about the future.
>>201939592I don't care that it was a diminutive in the past, it is used as a standard word for a bowl now. Don't listen to me, it would actually be hilarious if you come here and speak like cringey retard using diminutives all the time and people will laugh at you.
>>201939811I don't use diminutives all the time. I made the image only to demonstrate the full range of diminutives and augmentatives. It's not that deep.
>>201939811>Wow look at that pticzeczka>...oh you mean that ptica? I couldn't get you sorry haha>Wait what do you MEAN? It's a PTICZECZKA because it's small!!!>Hahaha are you for real man lmao i'm gonna tell my friends about thisThe Poleaf 40%s himself afterwards.The end
>>201939780this clears it up, thanksit appears the leaf was just being pedantic about it
>>201939897>kek
>>201939897I know how to use diminutives and augmentatives. Any Pole who posts on /polska/ would know that I don't output in Polish like that.
>>201939902Clarifying that aspects aren't tenses isn't pedantic. It's actually helpful to learners.
>>201940047how is saying>uhmmmm acshually future is not a tense in englishhelpful for learners?
>>201939885You made a misleading image using words that are almost never used or used in a very specific context like that's how polish language functions all the time.Don't make retarded images about polish anymore.
>>201940251It helps them learn English more accurately. It helps them to know that aspects and tenses could be mixed, and that the combination of them is not a whole new thing entirely.>>201940307I only intended to show the full range of diminutives and augmentatives and made it easier using a single word/concept. How else would you have used examples to demonstrate the use of those suffixes? Anon wasn't going to learn Polish in any case.
>>201939780What's the opinion of Greek philologists on that when it comes to Greek? For example "θα πάω", "θα πηγαίνω" κλπ.
>>201940460I would show when it is used regularly like with baby animals so a kitten is usually called 'kotek' or a toy car is called 'samochodzik' but you wouldn't call that a real car, which is small, you would call it 'mały samochód' and I would say that you have to be careful as a learner because it is used sparingly and contextually and can even be offensive.
>>201940460I disagree, it doesn't mind if you learn the 'perfect' constructions as separate tenses or as aspects mixed with the actual grammatical tense
Any recommended resources for Italian and Persian?
>>201940695I wanted to use all suffixes. Your examples only mention one suffix.
>>201940794It does matter. It's easier to learn when you know that they are tenses and aspects mixed together.
How do I learn to pronounce a sound that doesn't exist in my mother tongue?
>>201940670I'm not native Greek so I can't tell if θὲμα refers to tense but here you are. (1/2)
>>201940670Here's what a Cambridge grammar handbook tells me:>there are two tenses: past and non-past>there are three aspects: imperfective, perfective and perfect>together they form 6 different verb forms that you may practically (but not grammatically) call tenses(2/2)
>>201941098I used 2 suffixes. But it doesn't matter, your imagine was misleading, if you don't know anything about polish, you would end up thinking that we use diminutive constantly to distinguish between sizes.
>>201940695By the way, samochodzik has a broader meaning than that.>>201941510It is self-evident that diminutives are used to specify (to narrow it down).
>>201940695>I used 2 suffixes.You used one diminutive suffix -*k.
>>201941319θέμα in this case means roottense = χρόνοςhttps://blogs.sch.gr/dimagapo/files/2020/05/ΠΡΟΣΤΑΚΤΙΚΗ_Ενεστωτικό_Αοριστικό_θέμα.pdf
>>201941384>>together they form 6 different verb forms that you may practically (but not grammatically) call tensesYeah no, there are 8 tenses in modern Greek, so they are wrong.
>>201941256Depends on how foreign it is, but usually you just look and hear how a native pronounces it and imitate them. If you need extra help, check the IPA definition of it so you can figure out how you should arrange your mouth to make it.
>>201941847And now that I think about it, while future is mostly analytical, it has inflections not found in other tenses.For example: "θα λύσω", "θα φάω", "λύσω" και "φάω" don't make any sense on their own. They need a "θα" which indicates future, an "αν" which indicates a conditional or a "να" which indicates the subjunctive mood in front of them to be grammatically correct.
is learning indo worth it
>>201941847>>201941847κάνοντας is considered to be a tenseless gerund.κάνε is an imperative mood.I still see it as a 2 tense * 3 aspects system.>>201942119>They need a "θα" which indicates future, an "αν" which indicates a conditional or a "να" which indicates the subjunctive mood in front of them to be grammatically correct.That's why it's not a tense.
>>201939460They're not identical, but they are complementary in where they appear. Historically though, they also have different origins so I think the orthography is accounting for that. There was an older set of alveolo-palatals that lost their high vowel and merged with the retroflex, while the modern set of alveo-palatals came from a merger of palatised velars and dental sibilants.
>>201942341>I still see it as a 2 tense * 3 aspects system.Well, I don't care how you see it, but that multiplication needs to equal 8 and not 6. Call them whatever you want.>That's why it's not a tense.If you say "I will eat" and remove the "will", the sentence makes perfect sense. If you say "Εγώ θα φάω" and remove the "θα", the sentence makes absolutely no sense.
>>201941560I hate talking with you, youre such an annoying mid-wit. I didn't say that it does or doesn't, I only said that it is used in that sense all the time unlike your examples. I end the discussion here.If you respond to this you're a faggot.
>>201942757You can't come up with a better example that demonstrates all diminutives and augmentatives, and now you realize you were being pedantic, so you forfeit the argument.
>>201942341>>201940670Good news, I've found a textbook that goes into much greater detail on this matter. I don't have much time to read it, at least not in the near future, but you can check it out.https://annas-archive.org/md5/c2cf03cf986b40e106343d867368d3eb>>201942669Bad example. In my NL "I will eat" is "Я бyдy кyшaть". If you remove the "will" part, the resulting sentence "Я кyшaть" does not make grammatical sense. However, кyшaть is not a separate verb tense, it's a tenseless gerund that just so happened to be used to form the future.
>>201942836>being pedanticStop projectingShit, I forgot you are a troon fag.
>>201942901>Good news, I've found a textbook that goes into much greater detail on this matter. I don't have much time to read it, at least not in the near future, but you can check it out.Bad news, I asked for a Greek source.>Bad example. In my NL "I will eat" is "Я бyдy кyшaть". If you remove the "will" part, the resulting sentence "Я кyшaть" does not make grammatical sense. However, кyшaть is not a separate verb tense, it's a tenseless gerund that just so happened to be used to form the future.Yeah, I'm sensing you are trying to apply Slavic grammar conventions onto Greek. Also, φάω and λύσω are not gerunds. They are inflections that mean nothing on their own. Would you consider them tenses if they didn't have a space?θαφάω ναφάω ασφάωθαλύσω ναλύσω ασλύσω
>>201942757just so you know no one who calls others "midwit" is above middling intelligence and no one thinks you are smart
>>201943304No, because they're particles referring to the same shit.Your example is bad because tenses can stand on their own and you literally confirm that φάω can't be used on its own, therefore not a tense.
>>201943035This whole argument is because of your pedantry over examples used to explain a concept to a layman with no experience in Polish and who will never learn Polish.Of course, you just had to continue replying after you said you're out of the discussion; you just have to have the last post. How predictable.
>>201943461>Your example is bad because tenses can stand on their own and you literally confirm that φάω can't be used on its own, therefore not a tense.But you literally claim the exact opposite when you say that English has no future tense, so which is it?
Ran across this sentence>C’est pourquoi la grande absence ce jour-là de [...]This is how I interpret the "là":ce jour: this day (i.e today)ce jour-là: this day (that was mentioned in the previous paragraph)Is this correct?
>>201943307I don't care what you or others think. No genius would be waisting time on fucking 4chan.
>>201943582>I don't care what you or others think. Which is why your ego won't allow you to let it go without having the last post, surely.
>>201943618I won't do what you want me to do faggot. I responded to him just to let him know that he's not smart by calling me not smart.
>>201930546why most chicanos can't speak spanish properly anyway>>201930590"blacks" in the dominican republic are mulattos
>>201943536English doesn't have the future tense because it's not a separate verb form, it's auxiliary + present tense.Greek doesn't have the future tense for the same reason. It's formed with a particle + non-past verb.What you have been describing this whole time, I've found out, is actually just the perfective aspect.Φάω is an irregular deponent of τρώω, which is to say it's a perfective aspect form. It's like έτρωγα και έφαγα.Λύσω is just the perfective aspect. It's like γράφω και γράψω.
>>201943699You said the discussion was over and that you'd be leaving, but you just HAVE to have the last post. That, and the hypocrisy ("you're not smart for calling me not smart!" t. thought he was smart for calling me not smart 2 posts ago). That's the epitome of midwit.
>>201943581ce jour-là means that day meaning a day in the past
>>201944233I don't think I'm a genius but you're even dumber than me and like I said I won't do something just because some mentally defective troon on 4chan tells me to.
>>201944378You said you would do it out on your own volition, but you couldn't bear not to have the last say. You're very prideful. I'm not telling you to leave, only pointing it out. Actually, I'd like you to stay. I love arguing with people for hours until they leave. Usually, the argument dies down by the next thread, but let's try to hit a personal record.
Who else is evilmaxxing? I am learning Mandarin, Russian, Farsi. I want to do Arabic as well, but sadly there is little time>>201944278>ce jour-làthat 'day-then'. It just means 'on that day in the past'
>>201944556There will be no record, spierdalaj pedale.
>>201944642I already know Russian and I am learning Arabic rn. Not sure about the other two options but it would sure feel eastpilled as fvck.
>>201944642>evilmaxxingAlready know English
>>201944740If you say so.
>>201944197We can argue semantics all you want, but from what I've seen, every modern Greek grammar book or website written by Greeks, even those that take their time to mention aspects, talk about 8 grammatical tenses. So why should we apply (predominately) Slavic grammar conventions in Greek? That's what I don't understand.
>>201944278>>201944642ah, thanks
>>201944642>>201943581>>201944278actually i just thought of an example in the future using ce jour-là just think of the -là as adding distance from the present day regardless of time direction
>>201944780Hellas is already partially eastern in western eyes>>201944931>>201944931https://www.thoughtco.com/hyphens-and-dashes-in-french-4086573It's just added as a suffix to highlight that 'that' day was in the past.4. là (= à ce moment là) then
>>201945245quand je serai arrivé, ce jour-là, je te rencontrerai
>>201945408yeah it can refer to future moments also. I meant specifically in the OP's sentence that is highlights a past moment
>>201944872I've provided you English grammar conventions, developed from Latin grammar terms, written by Cambridge linguists. I'm not Greek but in my extensive library on language, I haven't found a single Greek textbook on any linguistic topic, besides βιβλία γυμνάσιου και λυκείου. If you never wanted my insight in the first place then you should have just dismissed me from the start and find a book from a Greek linguist.
Greek sounds like Spanish
Russian sounds like Portuguese
Why are Argentinians so shit in talking in Spanish? They pronounce all their words fucked up especially their double L and S even though they talk slowly like retards they still mumble through. Like in interviews.How tf do you worse than Dominicans?
let me guessyou NEED more
>>201945900/oe/ is goated, same with the 'i' variations
>>201945542If your native language wasn't Russian, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you know it. If separating tenses from aspects makes it easier for you to learn Greek or any other language, good for you. The thing is that each language has certain conventions that don't care about linguistic autism (even in English the tense - aspect is a bit controversial from what I've googled). Modern Greek is quite a bit of a mess due to diglossia and when despite all the dative remnants (the most common one being «τοις εκατό»), Greek philologists consider that there's no dative case in modern Greek, but consider 8 grammatical tenses, then I'll take their word for it over some English scholar that has a very superficial understanding of modern Greek (I bet most of them didn't know that the Greek subjunctive was spelled differently up until the 1980s). That is all.>>201945900Now post the Spanish one to unleash horrors beyond comprehension. They don't actually match 1:1 which is something I always suspected! lol
>>201945836Chileans are worse and hard to understandArgies and dominicans are easy mode in comparison
>>201945900Just a little bit more
>>201946022Bro, I'm not even talking about Chileans hoodlums, take educated people on both sides and Argentinians sounds completely fucked up. At least Chileans just talk really fast.
Getting a hard-on colouring countries on a world map and thinking about how I'll know all these languages ten years from now
>>201945900>>201946006What language is this?https://voca.ro/1fabQ0xvrUV7
>>201945967>both œ and əi hope you don't have words were the meaning depends on pronouncing the right one>>201946006I don't speak spanish but I assume the vowels are functionally the same, why is it a horror?
>>201946006>diglossiadiglossia with what?
>>201945734
>Really struggled with pronunciation yesterday when practicing speaking out-loud>Watched a video in TL today, then did my speaking>Pronounced perfectly everything I struggled with yesterdayIt's literally that easy, input works on pronunciation somehow. I still speak out-loud whenever I'm doing anki though, and if you're not doing this you're missing out on hours of speaking experience.>>201935478>El colandor>StrainerUhhh, we have these in english and they're called "colanders" >Fish spatulaThe proper name was "flipper" for these but "spatula" has been used wrong for so long that it's now adopted.
>>201946196Sounds like γειά, έιμαι εδώ
>>201946310œ = french wordsə = short 'e', for like in 'kopen', where you don't pronounce it long
*είμαι obviously
>>201946312>diglossia with what?Katharevousa, a conlang that was inbetween demotic and koine Greek. While it was abolished in the late 70s, it ended up impacting standard modern Greek to a larger extent than most people want to admit.>>201946196Definitely NOT Greek.
>>201930546>So far I can almost understand everything the person says>But my speech is so far behindWhen people say this they usually don't understand that they don't understand. If you truly understood you wouldn't have that much of a problem speaking.A solution for this is probably to look up whatever accent you're trying to get used to (or even a faster or harder to understand one), then watch a few hundred youtube videos on it until you REALLY get it down and understand it. A lack of actual understanding is the main problem with speech, you're still in the confused state. More input required.
>>201946478>>201946459>>201946410Wtf you guys understand me?
>>201946645No, because "ya imedó" doesn't mean anything.
I can't pronounce "worldly"
>>201946756https://voca.ro/1hqcUx64DkohEasy
>>201946410https://voca.ro/1fabQ0xvrUV7>>201946196That doesn't sound like the Greek I learned in HS at all. I learned Attic/Homeric Greek Here is my pronounciation:https://voca.ro/19ebTOlF8TB3 My Hellenes do you understand it?
>>201902216The funniest thing was when NK leader and SK politician talked to each other and someone in the comments wrote "where is the translator?"
>>201946427do you have a lot of french words in dutch?>>201946478>it ended up impacting standard modern Greek to a larger extent than most people want to admit.is katharevousa looked in a bad light in modern greece?
>>201946196ya dimelo
>>201946818Yeah because I’ve never learned Greek nor have I spoke it. I was trying to imitate Google Translate lel
is it true that cypriot greek is unintelligible to mainland greeks?
>>201946818You're going to need shock therapy once you find out what Modern Greek sounds like.
>>201946818>My Hellenes do you understand it?Γαία είμαι εδώ.>>201946901>is katharevousa looked in a bad light in modern greece?The war between katharevousa and demotic was very tense, but it's long over. The church and some autists still write in polytonic though. lol
>>201946952It's mostly a meme these days, but it used to be the case in the past. Standard modern Greek is gradually replacing the Cypriot dialect.
>>201946901Don't write in polytonic in front of leftypol or they'll blow a gasket and throw a hissy fit
>>201947103wtf i want to learn koine now
https://voca.ro/11Ghc1c9iIT2Ok here is a random sentence, do you still understand it?>>201946901A decent amount of French words, but Belgians use a lot more than us.
>>201947592https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWJqNxF10s&list=PLgagRG-aoUi9UUTnryXZJX7ac2pHgUEtE
>>201947640the subtitles don't correspond to the audio at all???
>>201947086>>201947103are autists that write in polytonic all team chud?
>>201947696the dialogue at the start is in ancient greek and the captions are for modern>>201947878yes
>>201947878>are autists that write in polytonic all team chud?https://www.estianews.gr
>>201947640>you now remember the episode with the EVA reference
>Ποῦ ὁδηγεῖ ἡ ὑστερία τῶν κηρύκων τῆς woke ἀτζένταςτοπκεκ
>>201947640Are Modern Greeks really taught to pronounce Ancient Greek like they would their vernacular?
Is it just me or is the th/dh sound quite easy to make once you learn it?
>>201948185For the sake of simplicity, yeah. Also, the erasmian pronunciation sounds quite barbaric to our ears.
>>201948430>Ancient Greek>BarbaricIronic
>>201948525Not really, because while the Erasmian reconstruction is mostly correct, most ancient Greek learners can't get rid of their modern Germanic prosody, so it ends up sounding uncanny. I personally like the Lucian pronunciation.
>>201948069Have you tried doing a mock exam? I did one last night actually, got like 85% on reading and 73% on listening. I might just study up and try taking the TOPIK II about this time next year
>>201945836I like their accent desu
>>201948794>vocabulary of a whopping 140 wordsI wouldn't dare, I merely posted that image because I found the pun funny.
>>201948321>learn something>it becomes easyI wonder why
>>201950827I mean that the sound feels natural and easy to make, like how English natives might find it easier to switch it for t/d or f/v because to them th is such a bother.
>>201950909I end up doing the same but in reverse sometimes.
Rolling r will never be easy for me because I have ankyloglossia (tight/short tongue).
>>201950972I've been told if you can do the tapped R, you can do the rolled R.I still can't do it though even after watching tons of videos and trying all kinds of weird shit such as lying upside down with my head back while drunk.
>>201951053I can't do the tapped r. I don't pronounce butter "correctly".
>>201928720
>>201951053Lmfao look at what Americans have to do to have just a fraction of a Euro's linguistic skills
Tfw I’m retarded
>>201951573No, it's just that Romance language speakers get a boost because the test is broken. Greek speakers get a small boost as well (one of the questions I got was about the synonym of thorax).
>>201951751the only boost i got from romance was masticate
>>201951790It's too easy in general, which is why I brought the point about low frequency everyday objects up.
>>201951117vocaroo?
>>201939097there will come a day when you will regret that you hadn't cared about the distant past
>>201951255Your average American doesn't give a fuck about languages other than English. It doesn't surprise me that there are so few of us in this thread despite having a larger relative population.
>>201952129The Judgement Day maybe, otherwise not a single ESL actually needs it.
>>201952292Why should they?Everyone knows your language.
>>201953491same reason most people learn foreign languages besides english
>>201953610I wouldn't recommend it honestly. I don't like it myself but I've put too much hours into this shit to quit now. I'll learn my 2 TLs and nothing more.
>>201953747Many*I wanted to write 'too much time' and changed it to 'hours' idk why
>>201953491>Everyone knows your language.Not true at all, really. And even if it were, there's lots of content to enjoy in other languages. And I think it's just fun to speak with someone in their language even if they know English.
>I have secured a fulfilling profession, pursued high levels of education, engaged in constant self-improvement endeavors, endeavored to excel in various aspects, achieved peak physical fitness, honed my communication skills, maintained a stylish appearance, prioritised my health, and nurtured a positive mindset. While these accomplishments have granted me a sense of satisfaction, a lingering emptiness persists, for I find myself devoid of romantic companionship. Despite the unwavering love and support of my parents, the yearning to be cherished romantically remains unfulfilled. I reassure myself that I am content, yet an unmistakable void weighs heavily on my heart, casting a shadow over my otherwise flourishing existence.How would you rank this on the CEFR scale?
>>201954411>Oxford commaB1 at best
>>201954193>lots of content to enjoy in other languagesMostly worthless slop.>I think it's just fun to speak with someone in their language even if they know English.I don't think that it is, but if that's the case for you then alright.
>>201954490total oxford comma love
>>201954411I'd say c1-c2 because of the vocab
>>201954193>I think it's just fun to speak with someone in their language even if they know English.you can also do context-switching English<->TL with someone who's down for it, pretty fun but may sound weird to onlookers
>>201935396>https://rutracker.org/forum/index.php?c=2cпacибo, дpyг>>201939658thanks, any advice on particular games ?
