We love our new cover editionOld>>61813821MFAL comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5V9qYxITW0Resource on what these spec terminology meanhttps://www.nite-walker.com/post/2019/11/21/specs-for-dummies-101https://apollogearco.com/blogs/news/night-vision-specs-explainedhttps://gloomgroup.com/blogs/night-vision-info/night-vision-specifications-understanding-what-they-meanYou shouldn't be chasing for spec values but they do exist and if you wanted to know what "better spec" values are there's a way to know which unit is desirable over another.Most retailers won't post this info as they build NVDs to order, first come first serve, and depending on their grading scale of high, mid, low tier it may differ from retailers. If a retailer offer a “ready to ship” fully built units they will list the spec values. Hand select is an option from retailers that will try to match to your spec requirements.Some reputable retailers:https://www.jrhenterprises.com/https://steeleindustries.com/https://nvisionoptics.com/https://www.customnightvision.com/https://apollogearco.comSNR: signal to noise ratio, the amount of signal the tube can make compared to the noiseEBI: equivalent background information, how much false image appears in the screen through which the actual image has to show, sort of a noise floor of sortsHalo: How big the circle of bloom is around lightsPhotocathode Sensitivity: How sensitive the photocathode isLP Resolution: Line pair res of the center of the image as measure against a standardized chartIf one spec is shit it negates the rest, if you have a halo of 2.0 it kinda fucks on an EBI of 0.20 if you want to do any kind of shooting and it's all a balance gameThe numbers to meet or beat areEBI under 1, preferably under 0.6 being great, 0.1 is gucciHalo under 1, anything under 0.7 is awesomeSNR, over 25 anything over 30 is gucciPhotocathode, 1900+ is pretty great, 2500+ is stellarResolution of 64+ is good, 72+ is gucci
Real M6 hours.
>>61903678>my post is on the cover of NVG magazineI always knew that I would grow up to be famous.
>>61904606Is testing complete and these are the first round of “production” units?
>>61904606Noooo my wallet
>>61904627Basically. They've fixed everything we thought to test for which honestly wasn't much. Unity plug compatibility, the one PCB issue with the very first prototype were really the only problems we encountered. The only change I wanted made that I'm still not 100% sure whether it will be implemented or not is including a cover for the crane port.
>>61904717how waterproof are they? have you done a submersion test?
>>61903430Oh yeah those guys are absolute faggots and have no idea what they're talking about.
>>61903678love these OP pics, they always make me laugh
>>61904717About the same as the M3 was it seems. We did test that, but we used that blue sticky tack shit to cover the port since we didn't want to chance bricking it right off the bat before further testing was complete. When I have more samples on hand I'll do a proper dunk test fully open, but we decided to prioritize further testing rather than super realistic testing off the rip.
>>61904845>lmao you got 12,000 dollar tubes? I already smoked you with my thermal
>>61905013Despite the “*teleports behind you*” nonsense, dual band is the meta now, if you are not using thermal you are at a massive disadvantage.
>>61905067I'm still in the camp of thermal being too detrimental thanks to its inability to see through glass. Hoping for fusion to be affordable soon.
>>61904732This is what I want to know as well.
>>61905067>dual band is the meta nowI guess I agree in the sense that having nods for movement, fighting, and navigation and having therms for detection is a very smart thing to do, but from where I'm sitting a handheld thermal does that great and it seems like when most people say "dual band" they mean helmet mounted thermals which I have had mixed-at-best results with
>>61904732I'm a dumbass. >>61904717This was supposed to be a response to you.
>>61905470when i say dual band i'm talking about the scope from black ops 2
>>61906148I have no idea what that is, by dualband I am referring to having both nightvision and thermal available at the same time, whether it be mono + mono, bino + scope, thermal overlay, etc. Im rocking mono + mono until quality fusion becomes available, the only one civies can get that I am aware of is some dogshit chink crap. I figure in a couple of years there will be great leaps in both image quality as well as processing speed.
>>61907214https://callofduty.fandom.com/wiki/Dual_Band_Scope
>>61907225Thats fusion.
>>61908157By inline laser do you mean center bore or mounted to the 12 o'clock rail?
>>61908894Center bore
>>61908157What if you have all of them?
>>61908953So only the Raid Xe?
>Buy LAM>I end up shooting passively anywayEvery single time.
>>61908157This is stupid
>>61908157
>>61908157>posts nonsense>kills threadyeah.
>>61914343I need to go to the range.
Would be pretty neat if sneed could get us cheap decent thermals.
>>61908157Hey btw you're supposed to label the axes not whatever you did. You'd think a 2d Cartesian coordinate system would be simple, but no.
>>61916221My post above was out of line and not in keeping with the rules of decorum ITT. I move to have it stricken from the record.Do I have a second?
>>61916226Neigh.
Don't get too excited, there were only 3 in this first box and they all sold to friends locally. More should start to trickle in tomorrow and through next week. I may hold off on posting until I have ten or so on hand so more people can get them in one go, but the wait is almost over.
>>61918983I need until Friday next week anyway so I can pay off my CC. You decided on a final price for us?
>>61919002Final price was always more or less set in stone, I just can't post it publicly because Lori will yell at me.
>>61919013Kek. Understood. I'll shoot you an email later next week when hopefully you get a few more.
>>61918983What is he final output on high?I remember you weren't happy with the higher levels
>>61919013Any reason they are sending them in such small batches? Is it to avoid issues with customs?
>>61918983>>61919183This, if we ever got final output specs I must have missed it.
>>61919183>>61919522Final output is 1mW pointer on low, 5mW illuminator on low, 10mW pointer on high, 30mW illuminator on high. >>61919344Yep. Not American customs but Chinese customs, actually. I think they'll be staggering shipments every 2 or 3 days so they don't end up at their port in one go.
>>61903678
>>61925848>2 years oldThis guide is literally worthless, all of those recommendations are obsolete now.
>>61925957I think the only relevant thing on it still is the ecoti.
>>61925848why do thermal scopes always look like chap chintzy garbage
>>61928140because thermal scopes are literally "cheap" chinkshit majority of the time. They cost so much money because they're a technology that is still expensive.
You goofs know anything about NV photography or should I check /p/?I'll be using an Astroscope 9350 for work. Problem is that I use a full frame camera, so there is a significant circle vignette on any image I make.
>>61928563may as well send you to the meccahttps://www.cloudynights.com/forum/139-night-vision-astronomy/
>>61930565I want to go shooting with those guys that hunt pigs at night.
>>61928563>Problem is that I use a full frame camera, so there is a significant circle vignette on any image I make.I would guess that the scope's imaging circle does not cover FF then. It can't be distance related because they've worked that out in the design of the scope and there are no adjustments that I can see. I doubt it's the lens on the front. In theory if the lens is vignetting then that would carry through the tube and affect the output image. But any FF EF lens should more than cover a standard gen 3 night vision tube's entry aperture.You can crop in photos. For videos I would try an APS-C body and see if the imaging circle can cover the smaller sensor. Since the scope determines output brightness, and the imaging circle is too small for FF, there's no high ISO performance gain with FF in this case.
>>61922903>30mW illuminator on highHow does this compare to VCSEL options and other FP units?? I know Basque was trying to strike a balance between illumination and reducing unnecessary glare...
>>6193644030mW should be on par with a standard PEQ on high power wise. I don't have any VCSEL, but they apparently look like my D2 does which is the cleanest of all my illuminators. My FL5 has a more even illumination than my FP PEQs, but those are all ancient so that's a consideration as well.
looks like DOD CIDs are investigating more on grey market peq15 lams and omni iits according to plebbit
>>61936819I saw this post yesterday on arfcom about some USAF tubes being sold on leddit and other private marketplace: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Beware-10160UW-SA-C00-1597/18-552487/
>>61936670My peq15 is brand new (2023) and it's shitPeq is just so shit.
>>61936890pic related is the only claim on plebbit so far.
I'm sick of using a white light and relying on moon cycles for coyote hunting. What's a decent thermal riflescope for under $1500?
>>61936953I got one on tac swap for $1600. It's a tc35 384Go to tac swap and click on the NV category you'll see it.
>>61936953>>61937215>tc35 384I've been seeing a bunch of AGM 384s pop up lately now that the v2s are out and people can get away from feeding them CR123s. I'm not excited about proprietary batteries in my devices, but ~2.5x the run time on the v2 is damn attractive for most people.
>>61936953Agm 256x25 v2.I'm blown away by how well something with such shit specs performs, I'd say max range for making ethical shots is 250-300 yards and identification (deer/coyote) is at least 500 yards.
I have a legit E-COTI that I use in conjunction with a set of 1431's housing NNVT tubes. Would it be an intelligent move to sell the E-COTI and use the resulting funds to get L3 tubes for a swap, or should I just stick with the less capable chinesium tubes paired with a clip on thermal?
Has anyone mentioned sotac's newest clones? Their claims look too good to be true.
>>61937730Those are evolutiongear ngals, not sotac.The IS-EG thing is sort of a point of contention though. InvisibleSight says the EG units are worse and he won't warranty those ones because he doesn't do final QC on them.
>>61937742This is from Sotac's website though. They have MAWL clones listed claiming they're rated for 5.56 and 7.62.
>>61937756>>61937742
>>61937756The pic you posted is from the Specprecision listing for the EvolutionGear NGALs.Afaik sotac doesn't make any LAMs that have non-LED illumators. If that's changed that's potentially excitingAs for recoil ratings, well those have always been a cointoss with even their best units lol.
>>61937659seems like a question only you can answer since it completely depends on how you are using your current setup and how much the thermal contributes to it vs better i2 performance.
>>61937792Sotac's selling them for half the price for Invisisight and they claim to be evolutiongear.
>>61937778Reading the listing, I'm sure gonna let others test it out before I touch one since it's the same price as several known quantity options on the market rn.If it's good that would be cool but several things in the listing give me pause, like the "at most" 10cm at 50m laser deviation, which doesn't sounds promising to me in terms of quality control lol. The laser specs are super unclear as well. >>61937815The EvolutionGear units are the same price as the IS ones, they just ship faster and don't have IS QC.I would guess that sotac is making their own NGALs in house and just stole the ad copy from another website lol.
>>61937833>>61937815Reading the website, the units you're looking at are literally the EvolutionGear NGALs, dude. They're the same price and everything.
>>61937861Yeah the pics are ripped straight from aliexpress. The MAWL looks like EG too but the price is >$200 more.
>>61937808That's fair. I live out in a very rural area, so unless there's good lum it gets really dark out with little ambient/street light to help. Thermal does a lot of heavy lifting when identifying animals like coyotes, rabbits, etc but I'm able to navigate fairly easily under just i2 (but I chalk that up to my years of experience wandering around in the dark with and without night vision). I might just be infected with the fomo bug when it comes to getting better tubes like L3 or something because I'm not 100% sure how much better if at all they'd be at getting PID on a target when compared to a thermal+NNVT tubes.
somebody black pill me on how bad this Chinese digital NV / thermal fusion is
>>61938383if any of this shit is sub 1k don't even bother
>>61938388how about sig's echo3 thermal reflex 1-6 for 2k?
>>61938421for that much you could just get a rattler, the echo3 is a weird niche product that's a thermal that wants to be a red dot and fails at both
>>61938383it's just as good as the Nerf brand stuff available now.
>>61938474Worse or better depending on how you view it.>10x more expensive>Probably gives slightly better performance>but the performance will still be dog shit and not be worth the 10x price increase
>>61936890>>61936931The reason I don't fuck with stolen gear is because it's uninsurable. Gotta get insurance NOD insurance, bros.
>>61937756>>61937730evolutiongear is airshit nigger, it has been for years
>>61936953the AGM rattlers
>>61937730Hey that's pretty cool. At least one Sptac Perst 4 held zero on 5.56 way back when.
>>61940211>insuranceThere are better things to gamble your money on.
>>61940490$10k worth of "photography equipment" insurance costs me $100/year. Worth it to me.
>>61940508>We investigated and found out that this isn't actually photography equipment, also it was raining in Tallahassee that day when you lost it all so we're denying your coverageetc.
>>61940531>found out that this isn't actually photography equipmentBut it is though. Also my pc hardware is covered under that policy as well.I agree there is always a risk of insurance companies trying to weasel out of paying, especially these days, but talking to the guy this seemed very run of the mill and honestly small potatoes as far as tech gear goes.
>>61940531Former insurance drone here, thats not at all how it works. They are actually crystal clear on what is covered and what isnt. Its all in the contract, which is provided and even encouraged for you to read. There is practically zero grey area involved in policies. Just because you are too niggardly to do any review of what you are going to pay for doesnt mean that insurance is a bad thing. Stop being lazy idiot, read the contract, and suddenly WOW there are no surprises or “gotchas”. People who bitch and moan about insurance are simply idiots who pay for the cheapest shit that doesnt offer full coverage or expect the policy to perform as a warranty. As for your example, they would know precisely what is being covered with serial numbers and everything, how it is being used, and would cover it for water damage assuming that the equipment is being used in conditions it is rated to work in (ie; rain, where as “underwater” probably wouldnt be covered).
>>61940600If you are using your renters policy for this you may wish to read the contract because those are not “all perils” policies. You want a “personal articles” policy, which are also dirt cheap so that very well may be what you are using.
>>61940625>that's not at all how it worksI'm friends with some people in claims. We reugularly get lunch and talk about shit that gets denied or not and why. Insurance companies will use things beyond any amount of your control to deny you coverage - pic related.
>>61940645That's helpful thank you
>>61940645this, your home insurance or renters policy isn't going to cover everything, especially if you have a shit ton of guns and gear and equipment, most only cover up to 10k or so and explicit.
>>61937778I ordered one to test out.
>>61942175it's airshit, not even good airshit either, evolution gear is the bottom of the barrel of airshit
>>61940211>advocating for the kike scheme of insuranceNo thanks
>>61940490I'd reconsider>>61940508Fully agree with you. I have all my guns and NODs insured. >used to run mismatched PVS-14s, one L3 WP I'm married to, and an AGM unit I got for a steal >would loan out the AGM unit to friends so we can both goon>check the AGM morning after a shoot, it's dead>start insurance claim, send it to 'my guy' (USAA literally said I could diagnose it myself, but I said fuck that, I'll involve a 3rd party/professional)>USAA pays out the full $2500 I had on it, my guy is able to salvage the photonis tube (the AGM housing had cracked, lost purge, and more importantly the circuit board was fried)>for the 2500 from insurance + whatever credit for the intact tube, he sets me up with another L3 WP with matched specs (2600 FOM)And that's how I bought a gen2+ PVS-14 for a thousand bucks and a case of M193 and turned it into a $3500 unit. I tell everybody I meet to get insuranceBroke a PVS-14 and thanks to insurance, went from a photonis GP to an L3 WP matched to my other L3 PVS-14.
Insurance for night vision devices, especially those owned for entertainment purposes, is generally not financially beneficial. The total cost of premiums over time usually exceeds the value of these non-essential items. Given that night vision devices for recreational use are not vital, it is more cost-effective to set aside savings for potential losses. Instead of paying for insurance, you should ensure that you can afford to replace the night vision device if it is damaged or lost. Insurance is most beneficial for expensive, essential items you cannot afford to replace, such as housing and cars, where the financial impact of a loss would be significant.
>>61944880There are NVD and thermal devices that cost as much as cars. But to each their own.All I know is if my friend had proper insurance he would not have to buy a new set of NVD when his got shot.
>>61944971>got shotI think he has some other concerns.
>>61944997It was series of unfortunate events, he went down range when it was a cold range to look at their hits and took off his pvs-14 from his helmet and placed it in his pants pocket but when he went back to the firing line the pvs-14 dropped out of his pocket probably due to climbing over a large log blocking the path.When everyone was at the firing line and called the range hot the first person that went up to shoot at a steel target missed the target and instead it got the pvs-14 that was lying on the ground.
>>61945031Lol damn what a fucking retard
>>61944971>There are NVD and thermal devices that cost as much as carsWhich absolutely does not apply to most PVS-14's especially if you're talking about one device. If you own quad panos and a collection of high end thermals then it would make sense to insure them but, people like that are the exception and not the norm.>if my friend had proper insurance he would not have to buy a new set of NVDOr simply don't get your NVD shot up. It hasn't been a problem for thousands of night vison users.
>>61945233My pvs14 is worth more than my car.
>>61945241>this anon admits to owning a 90's corolla
>>61945276It's called being based, anon.
>>61945293Hey, I use to drive a 99 4runner, but then I upgraded to a 2011 tacoma.
>>61945241More common that you would think. This post made me curious what my weekend truck was "worth".
>>61940660What is and isnt in your control is irrelevant. Its a legal contract. The insurance company is absorbing your defined, statistically predictable risks against a known set of hazards in exchange for your giving them a defined amount of money to do so. It is an extremely regulated industry, there are no scams against the customer this day and age. Yes, the insurance company is a business and it is their financial duty to remain solvent by denying all claims that are not covered by the contract. It is your duty as an informed consumer to actually read the contract and understand what is and isnt covered by it. Also i have no idea who or what your picrel is so I have nothing to say there. Idk what you and your friends discuss specifically either. All i know is that I was a licensed insurance producer who knew their product inside and out and I can tell you that I have never once seen a claim denied that was not justified by the contract. Infact, I would usually see the opposite, where we would be absolutely shocked that someone’s obvious bullshit claim was being covered.>>61940820Its even worse. Firearms coverage begins at only $2.5k (meaning the MAX the Ho covers is $2.5k unless you pay more to raise it) and if you have homeowners, its likely your deductible is very close if not exceeding that amount, meaning you would get fuckall if someone broke in and stole your guns. Another reason why for any high value items, you want a personal articles policy which covers almost everything, has a low deductible, and lists each individual item specifically.Ill add that none of my shit is covered beyond what my basic renters policy includes, because the only risk im concerned about is theft and my policy already covers up to $20k worth of assorted shit. >>61942987Insurance is not an inherently kike scheme. It just feels that way because insurance companies are forced by government to insure retards and niggers which results in everyone’s premiums going up.
>>61945031yeah what a fucking tard why would you have a pvs 14 on during the day? larpers deserve it
>>61945276Most of my cars have also been within the same price range as a new PVS-14 set up. 3-4k is a pretty normal price for a decent used car that's in the latter half of it's life but also isn't a complete shit box yet.
>>6194527690s corollas are sweet
>>61945887>Its a legal contractI don't know why you keep repeating this. I see contracts broken all the time because "oh, they didn't tie their shoes we got it right on camera, we're not paying".
Can someone give me a QRD on Photonis 4g tubes and why I wouldn’t want one that was comparable specs to an elbit wp tube? Nearly same spec on both tubes, what makes the elbit better? Without meme Frenchie replies preferred.
>>61949026https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYAo2G4QF8
>>61949026If you're a US citizen it's because the gen2 photocathode chemistry is weaker than Gen 3 photocathode chemistry. Photonis make good quality products, but they also charge premium prices for them, and it's not worth it when US citizens can buy slightly better NV for the same price.
>>61949026The core differences in the technologies mean that the Elbit will perform better in darker environments despite the paper specs.
>>61940508Who are you insured through? I might have to do that too
>>61949931USAA. I called them and the guy set me up with a "precious belongings"(or whatever) policy.
>>61949026>comparable specsyou cant compare the specs to gen 2. SNR in gen 2 and SNR in gen 3 are completely different. a 30snr gen 3 will BTFO a 30snr gen 2.
>>61950007Thanks anon
>>61947489USAA laid out exactly what wasn't covered (short, reasonable list), and fortunately none of it applied (my tech would have fudged the diagnostic anyways to make sure I get the payout). If you don't know how to play this game, you're the retard>>61949931Second for USAAThey call it Valuable Personal Property Insurance (VPP)
so how do i get usaa since i'm not a zogbot
>>61950618>short, reasonable listReasons they won't cover it:>routine wear & tear (unit at the end of it's life anyways)>Manufacturer defect (send it back for warranty)>"Degradation of electrical circuitry"This was the only kinda bullshit one, but basically sounded like a subset of the 'routine wear and tear'. My unit had the fried circuit board, which my guy made sure to specify it was caused by something acute (hard drop), not degradation over time. All legit, no drama, USAA paid out in full >>61950627Tell em you're a veteran...of the war on drugs. When they ask what branch say "Cell Block E">desu I just got lucky bc my dad served
More M6TRs (new designation,) will arrive on Thursday or Friday. As with the last one, it'll be a small batch, but I'll post them here. All my friends have been taken care of, so these are all yours.
>>61950618>My tech would have fudged the diagnostic anyways>if you don't know how to play this gameThank you for affirming that insurance is a scam and you need to commit fraud for it to be worth it.
>>61951160>All legit, no drama, USAA paid out in fullIf only they had illiteracy insurance...
>>61949026A gen 3 photo cathode is much more efficient at converting photons to electrons. Photonis closed the gap somewhat with "gen 2+" but it's still there and can be seen in online tube comparisons. If you're going to be hiking under a full moon it doesn't matter. Indoors by window starlight? It matters.You can't directly compare specs either because Photonis measures some of them differently. I won't shit on Photonis, they make good stuff, but if you're in the U.S. you would only buy gen 2 on a solid discount. If the price is close to gen 3, just get gen 3.
>>61951197You're literally gloating that you had to cheat and steal to get a payout for what you're paying into monthly. I'd rather just save up extra cash to buy myself another pair if I'm stupid enough to put them down where they'll be shot.
>>61950735What does the TR stand for Mr. Basque? Tactical Revision? Tranny Remover? The Rizzler?
>>61951288I've no clue. I recall telling them to add an R for revised a while back, but I don't know what the T stands for.
>>61951354how do the dimensions compare to the DIR-V? I know it won't sit quite as low, but will it cause shadow in LPVOs that never leave 6x?
>>61947489That example is fake and gay and I really dont have anything else to say to that. Let me know when you have something that isnt head canon and we can continue discussing. I see no point in going back in forth when I am coming from the standpoint of being a formerly certified expert on the topic and you are coming from the standpoint of literally just making shit up as you go along.>>61950666Insurance will never cover anything that can be construed as ‘degradation’. Anything that is a gradual loss over time will not be covered. Insurance exists to cover sudden, unexpected losses. One that is gradual would imply either negligence on part of the owner to properly maintain their property (insurance does not cover negligence) or it would imply a latent manufacturer defect (insurance is not a warranty). What it boils down to is the company wants to see that the loss was caused by a sudden and unexpected covered peril - if you have a personal articles policy, just about all perils (fire, flood, theft, etc) are covered. But again, perils that are gradual in nature (rust, oxidation, rodent/insect damage) or caused by gross negligence (ie; i stared at the fucking sun with my nods and now they dont work) will not be covered.I have said it already, and I will say it again. Insurance is not a scam. It is arguably the least scammy, quantitative financial service there is in existence. It is entirely driven by statistics. Dont hate the insurers, hate the people that the insurers are mandated by law to cover despite being extremely high risk, because those people are the ones that are fucking it up for everyone and making insurance expensive. If insurance companies could deny high risk clients entirely, rates would be absurdly cheap compared to where they are now. Instead all of the major carriers have been operating billions of dollars in the red ever since covid bullshit happened, thus why they have been raising rates.
>>61951288>>61951354It stands for "Thanks for unfucking our shit we couldn't have done it without you"
>>61951223You are unironically describing insurance. Its called self insuring, and it is what I would recommend to clients of mine for products we carried that I felt were not worth the premium - most commonly pet insurance. I would advise them that as much as id like to make the sale and have their business, that the cost of our pet insurance plus how much the contract didnt cover made it not worth it for anyone to buy unless their pet happened to have some extreme vet bills. Id tell them they are better served to take the same premium they were willing to pay, place it in a interest bearing account, and years down the road if and when they needed something covered, they should have a sizable fund to pull money from for this purpose, likely operating at a surplus.This is all fine and dandy, and is the “meta” for all forms of insurance - EXCEPT for when you have a catastrophic loss early into your savings strategy. You decided to self insurance your house by holding $5k/yr (double what premium would be) but your house burns down on year 8. OOPS! You only have $40k of “coverage”. Get fucked. Insurance exists to negate the risk of catastrophic loss. Everyone talks shit until their house burns down and the company pays them 6 figures in living expenses plus the full value of their former home and then suddenly they STFU. Most people will never use their insurance but when they do, they thank fucking god that they had it. And unironically curse us when they find out something isnt covered because they were giant fucking niggers that ignored our professional advice and went for the cheapest option, as if thats somehow our fault. It was all so very tiresome.
>>61951406It's pretty damn low. Not DIR-V low, but about PEQ low if not a little lower. It doesn't obscure much with a 4x ACOG with a standard mount, so I'd say your chances are good it won't be an issue.
Am I better off having darq/goonin build a pvs14 for me or buy one of their ready to ship l3s?
>>61952544All that matters is the specs dude, if you see one already built at a price point you agree with and the specs you want, buy it. You wont be “better off” one way or the other because both paths yield the same result.
I want a thermal clip-on to use with my ACOG. I’m torn between the Bering Optics Hogster-C and the AGM StingIR. Prices are comparable, and both have the same refresh rate. The Hogster has a higher screen resolution, longer battery life, water resistance is listed as “IPX67”, which I assume is a typo but whether they meant IPX7 or IP67 is unknown to me, I’d have to ask them. The StingIR has higher core resolution, is lighter weight, has higher magnification options in handheld setting, and has IP67 resistance rating. Anyone who knows more about this stuff than me have any input?
Argus fde g24 dropping soon
>>61952967No I get that. My question was more>Should I expect their built ones to have better specs or is their ready to ship l3 stuff gtg?I understand specs, but I have a very narrow frame of reference.
>>61953399>Hogster-C (384 Yoter model for 640)Built for purpose, recoil rated up to .375H&H, 9* FOV, 2xCR123 only for ~4hr battery life.>StingIR (384 to match or 640 available)Designed for headborne first, all other uses second, recoil rated only up to .223, 16*FOV (remember in context this means less optical zoom which you may or may not want), multiple battery combos between 1.5-4.5hr runtime but the 18650 tube in blocks objective focus from the left side when weapon mounted.>IPX67When there are two numbers the first is dust and the second is water. So its dust tight and waterproof for 30m @ 1m.They both have their advantages and disadvantages. StingIR is the more cool guy light and compact multi-use option but a Hogster or Yoter seems like a better actual clip on in front of a magnified optic on paper, but I haven't used either. Call a shop like Outdoor Legacy Gear or similar that has actual hunters that use their shit answer the phones.
>>61953399Have not used it as a clip on yet but I have a Stingir 640 and the thing is pretty tits. Very happy with how it performs, I cant think of any real complaints other than how I would personally like the layout to differ which is really just a me thing and not a valid critique of the device. However you might have a difficult time finding one now since AGM got scared by the chink sanctions, they are no longer available to my knowledge. I bought mine the week after this all went down and it took a lot of digging to find somewhere that had them in stock. You absolutely want 640+ resolution regardless of what route you take. Or you can wait a year or two for 1280 resolution thermals to take over.
If money is not an issue; should I buy the full power mawl, the FP raid, or the new OGL?
>>61954961Where?
>>61956191You genuinely can't go wrong with any of them, but I'd recommend the RAID or OGL. I hate the fact the activation button on the NGAL is at the front rather than the rear.
>>61956191The MAWL is really good if you can live with how it's mounted and the ergos. I don't think its very easy to use with your opposite hand either and it would probably make barricades challenging. I'd probably go with a Raid just for the profile and center bore laser alone. Second choice would be an NGAL A1 for how waterproof they are and without having first hand experience with either I would just assume it's going to be more rugged than a Raid but I don't know. Not sure how much I would like the fire button being way up in the front either but I would probably get used to it.
>>61956376>>61956298I have the chance at a FP raid for sr15 carbine upper swap plus cash from my end. Is the FP worth it or will the civ version be everything I need for larping innawoods? I just really want the green vid laser too I hate the red on civ version.
>>61956684fp is used for urban mixed lighting conditions and signalling aircraft/distant friends. vcel illumination is the real selling point of new mfal's and civ power is the same as fp. it's up to you really.
>>61956684I only had a couple of hours to play with a buddy's RAID FP and another buddy's civ RAID and I think you won't be limited by either for like 99% of practical applications. FP units retain value better and you have the associated cool factor, so if it's within your budget, go for it. Only issue I recall is that both RAIDs had a little square dead spot at the center of the illuminator. This is something that Wilcox will warranty, but a bit of an annoying issue for something so expensive.
>>61956206All the dealers, they said they should start be available for dealers next week. I also asked and they said that green will be made next but it might be exclusive to a certain dealer.
>>61957565why did a majority of dealers who were selling them pull their listings
>>61957590Idk maybe Wilcox pulled an L3 and said stop selling clones of our stuff or we won't let you sell our stuff. I can ask around.
>>61956707>>61956848>>61956684Does wilcox offer green vis at all for the civ units? Or are all the LPs red only?
>>61957717Nope they stopped. Also don't touch civ shit when fp's are like $200-300 more all over Facebook and tacswap.
>>61956848Thanks for the info man. I just had him send me tube pics of the Illuminator. It has the big fucking square in the middle. If I contact Wilcox with the SN will they let me know if they can warranty it for me for free as a secondhand buyer? I may be able to get it for a really good price.
>>61957753Dude this is what the illum looked like on the FP. What would be a fair price on something like this? Keep in mind I have to send it in and HOPE they will warranty it for a secondhand buyer. Also, best way to avoid getting scammed on TS out of 3500 bucks or more for a FP laser from some rando? Thanks for any help.
>>61957800>>61957815lol this dude won’t explain why he hasn’t contacted Wilcox for warranty, the low power screw is broke off in the illuminator knob. It has rack room number labeling on it. Stolen like a mfer. I’d be at 3k on this thing. If I’m retarded let me know by all means.
>>61957863if you send that back to wilcox its not coming back
>>61957885Don’t worry I already contacted them and asked them if they could warranty “my unit” with the sn. He provided me with a sn. We will see what they say.
>>61957815I mean they warrantied mine. Didnt ask shit.
>>61958053If it's stolen and you give them the s/n attached to your name, just be aware you might get a door knock even if you don't send it in big dog.
https://www.tacswap.com/post/667a4cbea1cd391d4539ff23
>>61958153Used proton mail and no name.
>>61958153Also I don’t think I’m gonna buy it. Too many issues. Shit looks like it was abused and it already needs a repair right off the rip. I’d be a buyer at like 3100 but not what he’s asking.
>>61957565Green would be extremely poggers.
Bump for sni
>One range I can go to for Night Shoots is half shut down now because of corruptionSo this is the reason why people choose violence.
>>61961649with night vision, you can go anywhere you want.
>>61961689This. Plus if you have a supressor, your even allowed to use city parks as your own personal shooting range, so long as it's in the middle of the night and you don't get caught (but how would you get caught if your decked out like your favorite video game character!?).
>>61961689I'm still out of the loop on the secret lands in PA to shoot on that aren't owned by someone I don't know.
pvs14 with carson lenses, omni VII gp tube, rhino mount and j arm, the paint on it has come off a bit in some places2.2k eurosfor the EU market seems a good price, usually gen3 toobs cost alot more
>>61961747
>>61961754can anyone identify if the lenses are legit?
>>61961762yeah
>>61961762>>61961754>>61961747...anon I'm gonna be real with you, that's less than I (an American) paid for my Omni VIII contract tube 14 by itself, no extras.The odds of that thing being legit are astronomically low lol
>>61963095mmmmmill ask for pics of the tube but idk if the guy will open it for me, anyway I use PP business so I can send it back although itd be a pain in the asswhat can i do to check?you mean just the tube or the entire pvs14?
>>61963154Bottom out the diopter and take pictures through the lens at an angle. If you can see the warranty expiration date or manufacturer date, you can have a pretty good idea of what you've got. Refer to this sheet to get approximate dates.https://aunv.blackice.com.au/forum?index=discussions&story=omni
>>61963095You paid more than $2350 for an Omni VIII tube?
>>61963204I paid $2200 like 4 years ago, idk how much fake european money is worth lolThe odds of a European getting a legit gen 3 tube with mount and j arm for that price seems pretty fucking low to me based on what I know about the Euro market.
>>61963610sounds like someone got mad about overpaying
>>61963644Nah that was a pretty good deal with 2020 prices lol. It's still a fine deal right now, if a little higher than I'd pay knowing more about the market than I did then. It's interesting that that's what you took from that post, though.Eurofags just don't get gen 3 nods for that cheap man, idk what to tell you. If it seems too good to be true it probably is.
>>61918983Do these have Vis lasers? Are they co-aligned?
>>61963674no and no. you shouldn't waste your money on one.
>>61963680Why? They have FP illum easy controls and sub $1k as well as a warranty right? That beats everything on the market
Also when are more of the new m6 lasers available
>>61963779never. you missed the group buy.
>>61963779>>61963810Yeah bro, they were a one and done thing. Everyone who got one swears they are the best thing ever. A couple people have thrown them out of a moving car and they still work great. Really sucks if you missed it
>>61963819no anon, they suck and he definitely doesn't need one. especially not if he can't be fucked in the ass to backread maybe 3 threads to find the answers to his questions. he will be better served by a civ power raid xe bought from a vendor that charges tax to his state.
>>61961649elaborate
>>61963840>Shooting range established a long time ago>fast forward to current year>Some shalom faggot zones the area around the range to allow suburbs, houses literally built on top of the range>when doing my night shoots stare into some faggot's window watching him jack off while I'm waiting my turn - that's how close the houses are>Fast forward to last weekend>Bullet ricocheted off steel and went over barrier wall into these cunts houses>township is now suing this shooting range and trying to get it shut down
>>61964290I'm surprised anyone would buy a house close enough to a range that allows night shooting to allow a ricochet to hit it
>>61964290My local 1k range shut down to developers citing worries about bullets escaping berms (not actual instances of it) several years ago, so I know the pain. After a few years of shoveling money into lawyers the range owners just decided to take what they had left and shut down.
>>61964312>I'm surprisedDon't be. People that buy those houses buy them with the intention of getting the existing thing shut down. URC has been there for over 100 years now. And they will absolutely try to shut it down.>>61964328You start to get an understanding and further appreciation for men like pic related when the same thing happens to you.
>>61964350>MarvinYeah, the small business owner has little political recourse in small communities compared to the tax revenue/attraction provided by large businesses. Firing line was like 2 miles distant and 100ft in elevation lower from the developer's property line but they kept getting the rifle lanes shut down for months at a time until the range could once again prove in court that no, X round type is not in use at the range and/or not in danger of penetrating or ricocheting over the berms into the development property. Lack of paying shooters + legal fees just became too much to bear.
>>61964511if there was a danger of ricochets why were the buildings approved just to then complain about it
>>61964758A combination of both $$$ and conspiracy to get shit shut down.
>>61964758Range prolly lied or didn't know how far spalling can goRealistically, ranges close to people should only be shooting into paper with an approved backstop. And upper baffles to stop retards from going over.
>>61964350helluva welder tell ya wut.
>>61964962My story >>61964511 is seperate from >>61964290. I wasn't in the courts so I don't completely know what was said on one side or the other, but I do know that my local range beat every injunction the developers had levied at them. However, since the rifle lanes needed to be closed in the interest of public safety until the range was proven to be safe in court those were 6-8 month stints waiting for the cases to be reviewed each time where the primary revenue driver for the range was unable to be used. A 1k range is only a bit over half a mile and there was another 1.3 or so miles beyond the final berm of rising elevation undeveloped woodland to the developer's property line. Is that enough "safe" backdrop? I don't know but it seems like it, and the court kept agreeing.>>61964758Similar things happen with race tracks in the middle of nowhere. Some developer buys adjoining land like a ranch, gets it rezoned from commercial/industrial to residential, then gets the local government to either severely limit or close down the track for noise violations.
Wait does the m6tr actually not have a vis laser??
Have two M6TRs available for sale right now.
>>61965417And they're gone
>>61965502I'm waiting for these to get out in the world and get a little feedback before I jump on one but the way they're selling si far has me worried they're all gonna be gone before I ever hear if they're actually worth a shit
>>61965541The issue is that LS is being extremely cautious with them getting got. They're shipping in very small batches staggered over a couple of days so they don't back up in customs. It's not so much that they're in massive demand, supply is just trickling in very slow.
>>61963674>>61963680They vis and are co-alligned. Whether or not you should get one is up to you but don't listen to this faggot either way
I can't do any night shooting until october anyway but hopefully by then some people have gotten their hands on these and have some feedback to report.
>>61965417>>61965502>>61965564nigger stop posting this shit this isn't /bst/ stop posting shit that isn't for sale to the general public IDGAF
>>61965621How about you stop being a faggot
>>61965502Think I'll send you an email finally.
I have my heart set on a tan FP raid with green vis. If I can get my hand on a tan FP with red, will I be disappointed for not waiting until I could get the green? I’d only be using the vis laser to zero during the day. Is the red on FP raid powerful enough ro zero during the day? Or should I just wait until I can find a FP green.
>>61969046Vis laser color literally could not matter less lol
>>61969046If you are going FP anyway then just zero your IR to your red dot at night with the laser on high either pointing into infinity or something 200+y away if the sky scares you, you'll be able to see the beam just fine either way. Bonus: you don't have to worry about any potential coalignment issues that way.Since you asked though, FP Red is still pretty useless in unless its dawn/dusk. Green is better but still isn't awesome. My only FP Green is 18mW which is fucking bright, but full sun still kicks it ass.
>>61965621but they literally are for sale to the general public. we're the only general public that matters.
>>61965541>the way they're sellinghe's literally only sold 2
Interesting mount. Seems very durable, the only weakness I can see is the pitch dial. That needs a little more friction but it holds position quite well.
>>61972719For comparison
>>61972719I am 12 and what is this?
>>61973102The topic of this thread.
>>61969046the full power red laser is pretty damn cool. always gets wows from people at night.
