If only the MG 42 had 300 fewer RPM the Germans would have won the war...
>>62531275british were outfiring german guns as early as 1942, oftentimes 30 to 1the americans could outdo even thatgermans werent winning the war without drastically larger artillery productionthough a machine gun with a 700RPM rate of fire would have caused them to lose 0.000001% slower
>>62531275Why would a lower RPM change anything?
>>62531275honestly needed 300 more RPM and they would have won
>>62531275The insane rate of fire on the MG42 was a consequence of the Krauts deciding that the very "conservative" RoF of the MG08 was insufficient for suppression of massed infantry. The fuddlore of 100 years ago was that a nimble man could dodge 450rpm worth of bullets crossing no-man's-land, so the Germans made sure they wouldn't ever have that problem again. Neither design philosophy is really bad, you just have to decide whether you want controllability while consuming a normal amount of ammunition or absolute carnage while you burn through ammo like crazy.
>>62531275Its actually really good to have that rof when firing from a moving vehicle, shooting at light vehicles, targets in cover/concealment, recon by fire, and repelling Soviet meat waves
>>62531275If only they had gone for more conventional hand grenades instead of the silly potato mashers, the weight savings would have allowed them to carry more ammunition thus securing victory
>>62531275if Hitler only had 1 yoctosecond more in 1942, Hanebau IIs and Ratte tanks would roam the world
>>62531275Wrong.They needed more RPM.
>>62531919virtually all machine guns today fire between 600-800 RPM, 900 is already excessivethe M240B is stuck at 600RPManything past 1000 is excessive, and you need to fire in shorter bursts anyways, and only really useful when firing from aircraft or firing at aircraftthe MG3 is almost always used with the slow bolt installed, restricting its fire to 900RPMwhile a few extra bullets fired out of a gun is not going to win or lose a war, the MG42 is way past the ideal fire rate and would have benefitted from having a more moderate rate of fire
>>62531275No, but the krauts could have won if they used John Moses Browning’s 45ACP! Hoorah!————————————-Bubbagump68SR(ret) USCGI shoot a 45 because they don’t make a 46!When I was a kid being under a tranny meant working on your car!“Nuts”
>>62532186they had conventional hand grenades, nobody ever talks about them though.
>>62532186>more conventional hand grenades instead of the silly potato mashersThey literally produced more of the Model 39 grenade than they did of the Stielhandgranate. But people are retarded because of MEDIA and MEMES.
>>62532235I haven't seen a single fucking video game that ever featured them. You'd think devs would actually play around with the differences, Stielhandgranate bigger boom, less shrapnel, something like that.
>hide threadproblem solved.
>>62532244The main advantage of the Stielhandgranate was throw distance and easiers/faster handling.i.e. you have one in your hand with the fuze cord around your wrist, the cord is pulled by your throw.The big handle is easy to grab, and obviously you can stick tehm in your belt or boot, in reach and rady for use.The handle makes throwin easier. There is even a plastic handle for some Soviet grenades, you can screw it on and throw them further (in theory, no idea if this actually works)It's the kind of detailed thing you might find in semi-autistic MilSim games, I guess.Fuck me why do I even know this, I've been here too long.
>>62532244
>>62531275what's the justification for the high RPM?
>>62532289Antiaircraft use>>62531275When shooting full auto the RPM can be on the low side and the weapon can be more controllable, then the RPM can be higher and the weapon not as controllable, but then the RPM can be higher still and the weapon becomes controllable again because the recoil is more of a constant force.
>>62532289It's complicated, but the simple story is that they wanted to really be able to damage low flying aircraft.This means you have to have a high RoF and force the aircraft that is strafing you to fly into/through a litteral stream of bullets.The goal was not to shot down all planes, but to damage them and essentially rattle teh pilots, because they noted that pilots would often pull up or swerve aside when tehy saw a stream of tracers coming their way.They knew teh RoF was stupidly high against iground targets, but they also noted that the sound and realization how many bullets were in teh air made enemy infantry reluctant to risk leaving cover, so tehy left it as 'good enough for now'
>>62532289As people have said, shooting down aircraft. Apparently. But it did have a psychological effect on Allied troops (or 'Anti-Hitler Coalition' as Russians are trying to force now because we hate the West). If you read Allied after battle reports they talk about how it spooked them. However if you read German reports, they say it was a nightmare because it ran out of ammo so fast, even under skilled soldiers' command. There is one report of a German soldier talking about fighting Russians and he basically went>Instead of probing or attacking the rim of the defensive position and retreating like any sane commander would do, the Russians just keep attacking the same place by throwing endless waves of men at the same point. You can hear the MG42 gunners screaming for more ammo as they mow down group after group of Russians but they just keep on coming.A more conservative machine gun could have helped simply because you're not firing as many bullets per round. Which is why German troops preferred the MG34.However in the 'end days' of the war, the Germans made the MG45 which was just an MG42 but easier to make. So they defo valued it for some reason and I think it's purely psychological.
>>62532464So many bullets per burst, I mean.
>>62532464>Instead of probing or attacking the rim of the defensive position and retreating like any sane commander would do, the Russians just keep attacking the same place by throwing endless waves of men at the same point. You can hear the MG42 gunners screaming for more ammo as they mow down group after group of Russians but they just keep on coming.I've read this exact same situation described in the war diaries of some dude who fought in Belarus and ended up a British POW
>>62532464The actual value was that it was cheaper than the MG34. And faster to produce.
>>62532464They kept it because the faults that it had weren't worth retooling everything for. And the MG-34 wasn't perfect either, it was even more finnicky than the MG-42 in a lot of ways.
>>62532623Yeah which is why I brought up the MG45, which was a cheaper version than the MG42. So they valued it beyond it being cheaper to make or they would have made cheaper versions of other machine guns.>>62532649True but most accounts I've read have German machine gunners preferring the MG34 simply because it didn't drain ammo so quickly. Small arms don't win wars anyway.
>>62532289>needing a justification for more dakkastupid git. shoot more, hit more!
>>62533067Dis git 'az da know-wotz!
>>62532464>You can hear the MG42 gunners screaming for more ammoLet me guess, someone gave them a Panzerfaust instead.
>>62531275>>62531919>>62532166>>62532206>>62532289>>62532334>>62532341>>62532464>>62532467>>62532549>>62532670>>62535218OP, I know you made this thread about getting blown the fuck out in your stg44 thread yesterday and you need to make at least one thread to seethe about Germany to hit your daily autistic quota. I also know we've been over this but I'll give the short version for the new kids before I hide the thread. I know you'll keep it bumped for a day or two to seethe anyway and don't care about the truth because this was just explained to you a couple days ago and you only left the thread after trying to argue that the main use-case of the MG42 was walking fire and everybody laughed at you.The MG44 did not get its higher RPM specifically for aircraft use, it was useful in general. >but they only stuck to it after finding out it sucked because production was already running!Contrary to what's commonly believed the MG3 also retained a very high RPM (800–950 rounds/min or 1,000–1,200 rounds/min) depending on the bolt used. The lower RPM number was generally used for export guns while the Bundeswehr stuck to higher RPM MGs until the recent round of NATO standardization which is now slowly replacing the MG3s.Changing the RPM was also pretty easy for both the MG42 and the MG3, both only need a heavier bolt.It also didn't waste noticeably more ammo, German gunners just learned to shoot differently (more bursts, less spraying). That is also the source for the behavior in this video and the American confusion about the different shooting style:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFLF300I0ps
>>62536203>depending on the bolt used.Slow bolt is de facto standard, 1200rm is rarely usedMG3s replacement will be locked to sub-900 RPMHigh rate of fire is useless
>>62532670>small arms don't win warsDepends on the war.
>>62531401>All those rivetsGolly gosh British equipment was/is still janky
>>62537000checked. The British may be obsessed with them, but rivets provide soul while welding does not. Rivets are a LOT worse than welding when used for ship hulls though.
>>62536472>Slow bolt is de facto standard, 1200rm is rarely usedNonsense, see Bundeswehr, the most prolific user of the MG specifically going for the lighter bolt.>MG3s replacementNext you'll tell us 308 and 5.56 are the best calibers because they're NATO standard. Interoperability matters a lot in these things.Anon is right, you are wrong. Keep seething about yet another failure of the thread, subhuman from Staten Island. Maybe you'll manage not to embarrass yourself in your next attempt at anti-German drivel. But considering the stg44 thread and your track record lately, I don't have high hopes.Thread hidden.
Is there anyone more autistic than butthurt wehraboos? Like, fuck man. The mg42 design has probably seen more combat than any other design from WW2, even if modern doctrine and design perfers a slower RoF.Isn't that enough for you?
>>62542073>Is there anyone more autistic than butthurt wehraboos?people who are into trains.
>>62542073Can't tell if you're autistic enough to fall for OP and think he's a wehraboo or just pretending to be retarded.
>>62541000lol this was a gay ass post
>>62532235it doesn't help that the germans highly propagandized the stick grenades as they were "offensive" grenades and basically had them all over their posters and weekly news reels
>>62537000brits were good at riveting, when you need quantity you build what you're good at.same reason the krauts built as much stuff out of stamped steel if they could
>>62542328Thispost just happened to weld together 3 trains of thought that pits a whole lot of posters on the internet into a historical context.
>>62542073>Is there anyone more autistic than butthurt wehraboos?Sega fans still seething about the Saturn and Dreamcast.
>>62536500>>62536500High quality thread that wasn't started by a seething tourist.
