Post gear, discuss gear.SOVL editionold >>62836727
By popular demand, the belt infographic
And the pack infographic
I’m a few years late to radios but am gonna buy a cheap first something and get my ham license over the weekend.I see a bunch of “upgraded” baofeng models that weren’t around before, is uv-5r still the recommendation or should I look at something else (I’ve heard yaesu mentioned)?
Pls gib fanny pack infograph.
>>62871109Some anon has been working on a radio infographic. He'll probably turn up here later. The latest version, anyway, is attached.
>>62871115There's never been one. But here, you can have style guide 1.0. (Which is better than style guide 2.0)
>>62871147Thank you for this, it helps a ton.I’m not really see a reason to buy mid ranged when that used Thales can be had for that cheap. I’ll get a baofeng to practice on after I get my ham and beef up to something more tacticool after.
>>62871103About the Savotta pack, they have a new one, 15/25L, named Kahakka, seems better as an assault pack, a lot more compartements than the 20L Jaakari that I have. the Jaakari is a good EDC/hiking pack, the lack of proper shoulder strap suck but it's an easy fix.
>>62871115Spiritus fanny packSome people like the eagle but I dont like how low it hangs
>>62871512>side platesI’m flattered that you would imitate me. Jokes aside, lvl 4s ?
>>62871512Why the orange mags ?
So those hype fags at tactical distributors now have Crye in Frog Skin Beach FYI. Of course it's expensive as shit.
>>62871550Why do you think anon, if you had to guess
>>62871540Ever since I got the upgrade JPC thing It basically gave me sideplates for free in terms of weight dist so im so on board.>lvl4ye>>62871550What does a tan mag look like in tall grass?>I dont know let me know when you find it
>>62871572They fucked it up. That's not frogskin. Looks like a hybrid with desert auscam
>>62871602I can’t overstate enough how much better structural PCs feel. My only gripe is how thick the lvl 4 side plates are it makes the GP stick out and it fucks with my normal high port position
>>62871602>What does a tan mag look like in tall grass?Fait enough
>>62871572It's not TACTICOOL if the larperator isn't covered in tattoos, including the obligatory Chinese Dog tattoo on his hands. Holy cringe.Also, that's not Frog Skin Beach.This is Frog Skin Beach: https://prometheusdesignwerx.com/products/spd-raider-field-pant-hbt-frogskin-beachThe hype fags mixed Frog Skin Beach with the orange Ali G camo
>>62871155Would terror partisan core be terror core but with branded clothing focused on aesthetics and mild functionality?
>>62871572varuste has cryes in m04 gonna get them sometime but fuck 500/600 euros for pants
>>62871716People yell at me for "shitting up the thread" when I post too many infographics, but here you go bro.
>>62871706>isn't covered in tattoosYou don't see his hands?
my personal kino larp list:>Adidas suit + plate carrier >grey pcu lvl5 jacket and pants/jeans + armor>fob style no shirt, short shorts and PC and helmet>bdus+lbe
>>62871745forgot to add gorka + lbe
>>62871744That's the joke.
>>62871754Oh I thought you were serious :(
best snow camo?finn m04 snowvegetato arctic multicam snow
>>62871889Are you in the tundra? If so go white-only or white with some tan and gray tones. Multicam snow is fine for this. Are you in the snowy woods? White with green tones is best. The Finn camo should work.
>>62871737Something I never understood about this graphic is that it implies that it's unusual to see anyone wearing boots in urban areas.
why do you guys need all this shit?
>>62873221It’s faggots who are too pussy to enlist playing dress ups in army man gear jerking off to the fantasy of a collapse scenario where they get to shoot people
>>62873263If you want to go die for israel be my guest.
>>62873281retard
>>62873263>too pussy to enlistlol
anyone know what this mystery ranch pouch is, never seen it before, seems to be padded
>>62873555
>>62873555>>62873560How much padding? Looks reminiscent of the USGI IFAK with the reinforced sides.
>>62873611idk it's not mine it's a guy selling it
>>62873221>need>>62873263lol, kill yourself nigger.These people literally come to this site with the sole purpose of making it worse for everyone else.
>>62873221I just like designing gear and shooting at dirt mounds with friends. Worrying/fantasizing about the end of the world isn't good for ones health imho
>>62873674You're a gay retard playing pretend soldier
>>62873221I like larping
>62873694no (you)
>>62873659It might be meant for a PVS-14 or range finder. I tried googling around to see if I could find it, but the closest I could find is something MR used to sell called the "flip top box" pouch.
>>62871115I just made this (I don't know anything about waist packs).
>>62873740the Gregory spear UM21 buttpack is nice too, if you can find one and for a decent price, I got the entire UM21 system minus the 4 molle pouches but it's not really that good, the assault pack is ok, very large 2 compartment assault pack with molle on the outside, non removable hip belt is meh as I dont use it for an assault pack anyway, the should straps are ok.the main pack is decent, for me it was less comfortable but I'm sure it's bc I need to bend and shape the aluminum stakes and I didnt cause I couldn't be fucked to, the hip belt is ok as the shoulder straps, it holds weight fine, but its heavy as shit and it's annoying to manage all the straps, and I think theres more comfortable packs around, I use military packs and accept that they're heavier it's not a problem, but the UM21 is heavy even by military packs standards, and its huge volume makes it so that for most use cases it'll be too big and you'll never fill it.overall the load bearing capacity is decent, the design is fine minus the strapzilla, but too big for most applications, and its expensive as fuck as it's a collection piece, I only bought it because I found the set for cheap and i saw the kit creep video packing it and was intrigued, but I have other rucks I prefer over it.the butt pack is a butt pack, it's a main compartment, roomy but not huge, like a giga gp pouch, it has a smaller flat pocket for small shit which I like, the belt is ok, I use it to do pullups to put weight in it and with 6kg it's comfortable so I guess it would be with the lower weights you'd put inside it realistically. it also has a molle attachment if you're so inclined and the belt tucks awaythey come in m81 and dcu which is kinounless you really like it for some reason or you're a collector or God forbid you try to recreate kits for reenactment (play dressup as your fave superhero but not actually enlist) I wouldn't recommend it
>>62873837
>>62873861zasedyou misspelled spear btw
>>62873926Fuck
>>62871090Fellas, why haven't you or any self respecting spec ops wear those jet black BDUs and blood red LED neon lights emitting from your googles, helmets and visors? Why not be the type of professional elite spec ops shooter games depict special forces to be? >The red neon lights expose your location and why black?!Maybe the red LED neon be like IFF markings? And the jet black BDUs are for the cool factor AND shows off one is of the elite cream of the crop operatives.
Moved my plate design to use a gapless design, should eliminate issues with M855 entirely. The ceramic will have *much* more support now with changes to the internals, and the front is using kevlar to contain ceramic ejecta, in addition to the customary S-2 glass wrapping. Only issue I ran into was ordering too few ceramic parts, so its down a row. Think of it less as a cheat ring, and more a "I need to count better" row.I figure Ill test against 6 hits of M993, maybe one hit of M948 too if NTS has it on hand.
>>62873935Helghast invasion kino.
>>62873936Very cool anon. What shape are they? hexagons?
Also, I just noticed that Safariland's ALS patent expires next year....
>>62874257based cvc enjoyer bladder or canteen?bladders annoy me to handle but I can drink on the move and in sips, with canteens I got to pull them out and it's a pain, yeah you can keep them on your belt but it's only 1L, at most 1.5, so you got to change them out I always bring one canteen anyway and that's a steel canteen with nested cup because it can always be handy especially in the cold to brew a hit beverage or make a hot canteen to put between your legs inna sleeping bag anyone tried the savotta blanket?seems nice because it acts as a heavy blanket but also has outer waterproof and windproof material so it's also a bivy, I wonder if you can sleep inside it with just heavy layers and no actual sleeping bag
>>62874340>CVCIt definitely looks like one, but it's actually an Adept Novasteel Ballistic helmet. My first helmet was a CVC though
>>62873219I assume the graphic means milsurp or combat boots. Workboots are very common and a good alternative.
>>62874346cool their novasteel shit seems very interesting but I want to see a ballistic test on it that isnt the video on their site, anyway I got a galvion p6n that I found on FB for cheap so I'm set for helmets but yeah the material seems interesting as it's pretty light and has no bfd for the same claimed level of protection, dont think you want to shoot yours tho
>>62874367the nvg shroud it comes with sucks from what I've seen in the 2 vids there are on yt, in fact you seem to have another one
>>62873936If NTS has it, 3x 7.62x51 Swiss P AP at VPAM PM-12 spec velocity. That's the meta way of demonstrating XSAPI+ capability these days.>>62871162Just exercise reasonable and prudent caution buying used and you'll be fine. It's easy to get burned by shady sellers.
>>62874367The company is a touch shady as discussed in previous gq threads.1. Their business address, which they later took off their site, is a no name warehouse shared with Carboline and a random e commerce company. Name isn't even on the door. Back when Adept was Diamond Age, it was a supplement store.2. It's seemingly a one man show run by a Jake Ganor, no other known employees. I recall they partnered with AR500 years ago for a helmet but got caught off guard by AR500's iffy reputation, which anyone in the industry should be aware of off the bat, IMO.3. Very vague references to a European facility where all their stuff is allegedly manufactured. Someonewhoknew, longtime /bag/ and /gq/ member, was supposed to ask Ganor months ago about this but went off the radar. Nobody knows where their actual facility is and there's very close (1 month) timing between some Chinese SiC-TiB2 patent development and the Colossus releasing.4. They have no NIJ certs.5. Their test reports are iffy. Colossus for example has one test report on their site for 1x 7.62x51mm M993. There is a second test report buried in an Oxide video showing 1 stop and 1 failure against M948 SLAP. Plate weight is heavier than advertised. There is another test report against 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP but no plate weight is even listed.6. Inconsistent performance in youtube tests. Buffman's Colossus was an absolute beast but Oxide's demonstrated poor crack arresting. Buffman also had an affiliate link so he got a cut if you bought armor from Adept through it, so there's that for you to consider too.If they get some NIJ certs and keep em, I'd give some deference, but they're slinging badass armor on the cheap out of nowhere and that's a bad omen in the body armor industry.
>>62874369Oh, if you're talking about the Novasteel, I never bought the shroud because it doesn't look good. Not sure if it works as intended. I have plans to fabricate my own shroud strap lock sysyem, AMP arm mounting posts, and accessory mounting system. The Wilcox ratchet is just a placeholder for the time being.
>>62874415cool shit making your own stuff
French army getting BME camo aka multicam knockoff #58423but in all the pics they're posting they still have CCE
>>62874415I forgot to add that the pads and strap harness are utter trash as well. Like, the pads are embarrassingly bad. Might as well toss them and buy something else.>>62874413I remember my helmet shipping from Kansas, for what it's worth. Might try asking them on Zuccbook. They're surprisingly responsive. Fixed my order over the weekend when I ordered the wrong size helmet.
>>62874438Interesting, since their address is Oklahoma, but they have changed addresses in the past. How long ago did you order the helmet?
>>62874443Actually, I misspoke. It shipped from Oklahoma late September
>>62874438I forgot to mention their formerly listed address was specifically in Tulsa. About an hour and change from Kansas. This should really be information a manufacturer of life saving equipment states up front, IMO.
>>62874454Okay, so that reconciles with the back-of-the Carboline warehouse address in Tulsa. Thanks. I suspect the e commerce business at the same address is their freight forwarder. Nonetheless, they shouldn't be remotely this guarded about this supposed European facility.
>>62874460I think so too. I just think the steel helmet shell concept is interesting and want to use it as a test bed for designing accessories. Been thinking about buying another shell to shoot up next time I go to the range. I don't doubt their performance/deformation claims against 3a threats. What I'm curious about is fragmentation characteristics
>>62873931This is actually based.
>>62874478Well, it looks good, for sure. Cool seeing what you've done with it. One of these days, I'm gonna buy a tan one /w the mandible and paint it so that it looks like an Imperial Fist helmet.
>>62873555What's going on with Mystery Ranch these days, anyway? Are they done, bros?
>>62874374>gotta make sure my plates can stop a specific round from a neutral country which hasn’t fought war in hundreds of years
>>62874616they got bought but it seems that they're still doing the same shit as beforeI only buy used tho so idk, maybe my packs will go up in value if they shit the bed and don't make them anymore but I don't think that will be the case
>>62874654Is the military line still made in the US? If so, the acquisition is probably nbd.
>>62874653Swiss P AP is kind of a stand-in for "modern high-end AP"No testing lab can get modern tungsten-core 7.62x54mmR 7N37, but it's more similar to Swiss P AP than it is to M993. Know what I'm saying?
>>62874659yes but it's made years ago, anyway I dont think they'll move away from making them in the us bc they have to be very compliant to be issued to the cool guys that get them, and maybe the made in USA is a selling point for soldiers vs hikers that dont care the other ones are made in Vietnam but idk
>>62874678I wonder. They may just become a "lifestyle brand" to make more money with lower operating costs.
>>62873931I just ordered a belt pack medium from hill people gear. Heard their stuff is pretty good quality, so I'm going to try it out as my edc. I got multicam, so maybe that's kinda cringe, carrying around a multicam fanny pack everyday, but I just love me some multicam.
>>62874697Multicam is alright
>>62874697Even people who don't like MultiCam have to grudgingly accept its superiority.
>>62874697And, basically, you did good.Death to meme+cringe camo like >>62871572
>>62874663This anon is correct. However, it is worth noting three items.1. Swiss P AP is one of the first 7.62x51mm AP loads, first developed in 1998, that was actually designed for competence against ceramic body armor.2. It is nonetheless very antiquated compared to modern body armor and will not replicate its "350 meter Level IV defeat" claim from the late 90s as purported by RUAG. NIJ 0101.06 plates are tougher stuff, generally, than the 0101.03 plates that RUAG likely tested the penetrator against.3. More modern 7.62x51mm AP loads do exist, most notably Nammo AP11LR and DM151, that are more ceramic-optimized with larger tungsten cores, and are accordingly more applicable to proxying for 7N37. 7N37 from the outset was purpose-designed for defeating XSAPI, which given the XSAPI standard only requires protection against M993 at 3,050ft/s, is not a very hard bar for the Russians to meet. The only contention is whether they actually have enough 7N37 to make a difference. The lack of known 7N37-rated plates, other than the FORT Technologies ACP-M, says enough, that it's largely a "ghost" round not manufactured in significant quantities.
>>62875762There was a lot of 7N37 in the first year of the war, but stocks have dwindled and it's not really around any more. I'll see if I can find more info on this.
>>62875787Indeed. There was a guy named Wolfganggross way back around 2014 who first sounded the alarm on 7N37 and 7N39 (5.45 ESAPI-buster). Back then it was primarily the Ukrainians, like Wolfgang, who were raving about these rounds' supposed armor-destroying properties. The truth doesn't quite meet the legend, as the only thing noteworthy about them is that they're the first modern AP rounds - those more advanced than M993 / M995 - to see regular combat. That's why they caught Ukies off guard initially. I have read from Russian sources about an improved 7N37M that appeared around 2018, but it's likely even more vaporware than the original 7N37. It would probably be wise however to assume 7N37M has supplanted regular 7N37 production.
>>62875826Not really vaporware. They've been used a lot and the Ukrainians have even captured some stock. Thread here with some info: > https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/russian-small-arms-ammunition-captured-in-ukraine/48756
>>62875854Thanks for the link. While it's clear that at least some 7N37 is still in play, there's still the issue that it's evidentially not common enough to warrant plates specifically designed for it. US-based manufacturers could be making a killing exporting XSAPI+ plates to Ukraine. I wouldn't trust a plate of this caliber from UARM, certainly not Hyperion, so the issue might just be that the Ukie-based manufacturers aren't competent to manufacture armor of this level without it being excessively heavy. I suspect Highcom might have something up their sleeve, a reinforced 4SSS2 perhaps.For reference, the FORT Technologies ACP-M is about eight pounds and uses a weird dual-strike-face setup. First strike face is silicon carbide, second strike face is chromium carbide. My assumption is that the SiC breaks up the penetrator and the chromium carbide strike face catches the remnants that the composite backer can't. The chromium carbide strike face is the only component that separates the more common ACP-G from the ACP-M. There's still the problem of 7N37M though, which by nature should invalidate any previous plates rated for 7N37.
>>62875892Oh no, don't get me wrong, 7N37 is basically off the board. It's not vaporware, and it was pretty common in 2022, but now stocks are depleted and the Russian military-industrial complex doesn't appear to be making more, or making them fast enough. I guess they have other priorities. There's a ton of steel-core 7N14 and 7N10M, but now the tungsten-core stuff is very very rare. There are rumors of a vaporware x54mmR 7N51 with a super-long tungsten carbide penetrator, but given all of the issues with 7N37 production, the rumors don't seem credible.
>>62875934I haven't heard of that 7N51 before. Fascinating. Do you have any additional info on it? Sounds like something similar to that old super-heavy DSG XMP .308 of years past, 300-grain tungsten penetrator.I know there is a .338 7N45 and a purported 7N45M as well. I'm curious if there's a .338 equivalent to this new 7N51. That would be a monster.
DSG XMP in 7.62x51mm for reference.
>>62874704What about frogskin jungle?
>>62875934The natural question with 7N51 is what exactly it's designed to penetrate. The super-long penetrator as you describe is generally a feature of newer, ceramic-optimized designs. It trades velocity for sectional density. It's either designed for engaging vehicles or some new super-high-level plate in use with the Ukies. Alternatively, possibly just existing 7N37-rated plates, if they do exist, at increased standoff distance.The only question is who makes these plates, how are they acquired, and if they can be imported stateside through new or existing channels. They would be persuasive alternatives to the Adept Colossus and surplus XSAPI, since they're evidentially tougher stuff.Maybe I'm just being overly speculative and the Russians aren't aware Hyperion's ULTRA-6 and TITAN-6 plates suck. Would be hard for them to be that unaware though.
>>62875992They're aware. Captured Hyperion plates were "featured" in Russian milblogger vids in early 2023. The supposedly 12.7mm-rated plate took a shot and performed like it was literally made out of wet cardboard, lmao. I'm not exaggerating at all. At least one of the videos was on Youtube and posted here, but I can't find it any more.>>62875951I'm trying to find more infos, but it might be a while. If this stuff is real, they're keeping it under pretty tight wrap. Maybe I'll have an update on a future thread.
>>62875973This doesn't seem a little bit clownish to you?It kind of looks like pajamas. Or like meme fashion camouflage, which I suppose it is.
>>62876083It looks like camo.
>>62876073I recall the video from a previous /gq/ thread. It was a piss-poor performance I'd expect from a Botach. I searched some Russian forums for news about this 7N51 but came up short. They seem to be treating it like some kind of trump card. Maybe an attempt to replicate 7N37's propaganda "your armor is now useless" value in the opening stages of the war. I look forward to seeing what you can find about 7N51.I guess it goes to show that the state of body armor, or at least what's accessible to the average joe, is considerably behind modern penetrators. There isn't even a known civie plate that can handle 7N37, let alone 7N37M, and that's not even getting started on this 7N51. Hell, there will probably be a 7N51M if the war continues to drag on. There was only a four year gap between 7N37 and 7N37M, after all.It seems to be a very minute issue, really, since the penetrators would be impossible to get CONUS. However, there have been "scares" in the past regarding supposed cop-killer bullets. THVs back in the 90s, KTWs in the 80s. Statistical anomalies at best, but with disproportionate effect on mentalities. If the Russians were daring, they'd sell these new rounds to the cartels down in Mexico. It would freak people out the same way 7N37 freaked Ukies out in 2014 with the whole "your armor is useless" angle.
>>62876110Crye "Frog Skin" specifically looks like the kind of "camo" in picrel. Attention-grabbing and mostly obnoxious. They supersaturated the colors and the result is funny looking.
>>62876127Hmm, I see it. It's less green overall with the splotches "stronger".
>>62876167Yeah, exactly. At a distance, real frogskin kind of blends in. Both Crye variants have splotches that are either way too bright (tan in jungle) or too dark (brown in beach) and they totally mess it up.
>>62876127That woodland overcoat with the daises is actually kinda baller.
>>62874094Yes, it is using hexagons to eliminate gaps. Next iteration will be using a more optimized ceramic shape, still hammering out the specifics.>>62874374NTS doesnt have Swiss P. Only place I know that has it is TNO, and apparently its quite pricey, plus the issue of exporting a plate to Europe makes it a no-go.Only way I could test against cutting-edge AP (beyond just having NTS crank the FPS on M993 to something silly like 3400+) would be to have ARL test it. They probably would NDA though, which makes it big useless.
>>62876480I wouldn't worry too much about Swiss P. It's antiquated and only serves to provide red herring protection over normal XSAPI. It doesn't reflect protection against newer .308 AP loads that would actually be encountered if users were hypothetically engaging forces that had access to modern .308 AP ammunition.Even VPAM, the most modern of the armor standards, fails to provide protection levels par with current .308 / 7.62x54 threats. There's a huge gap between PM-12 (Swiss P) and PM-13 / PM-14 in terms of design and focus.
Way back in the day, like just after Midjourney was released to the public, people on /k/ were using AI to generate camouflage patterns.Are people still doing this?
>>62876480Were the gaps a problem in your old design? Seems like most LIBA designs had gaps?
>>62876550NTA, but the old school LIBA plates from 1998-2011 or so all had gaps roughly large enough for the steel core of M855 to pass through. This was noted in some Euro military trials of the plate. Tencate resolved this by including a thin steel intermediate layer between the pellet layer and the backer. This jacked up plate weight but vastly improved shot-spacing capability against weaker threats. LIBA-Anon is taking a different approach by the looks of things, which might provide a lighter solution.
>>62876550Yes, maybe. The first iteration had some issues that muddy the water. I didnt pay enough attention to stress propogation, leading to excessive damage between pellets. 2 of the M855 hits (#4 and #5) zipped right through without engaging any ceramic: either they magic'ed on through a 1.5mm gap, or there was no ceramic there at all. >>62876565Got some corrections for this chart. - BAE 129760 is 5.3lbs, not 3.9. I had a pair and measured them quite intently- Ceradyne 96034 is 5.35lbs, or at least my pair is. I cant rule out that its using a suped-up B4C, but it IS B4C and any claims of it stopping tungsten-core stuff should be taken with a huge grain of salt. The more plausible explanation is "its a normal high-end TSA, but this time not slapped together with Elmers Glue pls give contract back".
>>62877293It sure looks like they hit gaps.
>>62871090Presenting HEAT EXHASUTION BDU'syou will pass out and die even before the deployment.
>>62877293Neato. Thanks for the info. I will correct the fed-boi guide accordingly. It was pulled mostly from the old collectors' guide so I'm sure it needed adjusting. Much appreciated.How'd you end up getting a pair of 96034s? Those are rare as hell. Only thing harder to find would be the CIA contract Ceradynes.I recall the original /bag/ crew ruled out the 96034 being the GEN IIIA TSA meant to amend the delamination issue, it's apparently part of a separate "ITSA" lineup meant for Delta.You wouldn't happen to have any info on the Ceradyne 2572575, would you? That was one plate Ravenna, the guy who made the original collectors' guide, never found the specs for.I wonder why the 129760 is heavier than the LTC 28595, which is a TSA and traditionally has a higher threat level than SPEAR. Threat level upgrade?
>>62877319And thats completely plausible, since the pinpricks of the 2 5.56 pens are pretty close to pellet edges. After that test, I decided to just do away with gaps at all. No sense adding issues where they dont need to be.>>62877409>How'd you end up getting a pair of 96034s?Right place, right time. The unicorn for me would be a set of Class III aircrewman plates, the B4C ones rather than the heavy alumina Class 1's I have. Id like to hear the logic train for the OG crew ruling out the 96034 just being an iterative improvement.No info on the 2572575, beside that it exists. The 129760 really looks to be a slimmed-down ESAPI from the 2013-2014 era, lacking that last smidgeon of foam (it still has some, but not nearly as much as a Rev. G). For what its worth, the 129760 is ~3-4 years older than the 28595. Without BAEs spec sheet, and without desctructively tearing one down, I wouldnt want to speculate too much.
>>62873263they hated him because he told them the truth
>>62877406I especially like how the guy with the motocross helmet has only one shoulder plate.
>>62877530>Id like to hear the logic train for the OG crew ruling out the 96034 just being an iterative improvement.What I remember they said, and admittedly it's been a minute, is that the GEN-III TSA and GEN-IIIA (the "we fucked up the adhesive don't give the contract to LTC plz plate") TSA were already accounted for, and there's no evidence of there being a GEN-IIIB TSA since by that point the GEN-IV from LTC was already around. That and the 96034 was procured in extremely low numbers for an Army contract (148 units at 1.7k per in 2011ish?). TSAs are USSOCOM plates but typically see use with SEALs, so that's abnormal. The weight also roughly checks out compared to the CIA contract Ceradynes (AA4) from about 2002, rated for the same threat.>For what its worth, the 129760 is ~3-4 years older than the 28595The 28595 was first procured around 2014 as well, so I don't really think either plate is significantly older than the other. The 28595 has been in production for about a decade though, so SOCOM apparently likes it a lot. >No info on the 2572575, beside that it exists.If it helps, the 2572575 was allegedly the 96034's replacement, rated for a .338 AP threat and weighing in about 1.5lb heavier. Sources on that are super sketchy so take it with a grain of salt. I can't see why CAG would have needed that except in weird contingency situations, so I'd reckon the more plausible story is that it's the 96034 replacement at same threat level but lighter weight.
>>62877581Makes sense, it predates modern front-on rifle stances, so that's the shoulder that would be presented to the direction of fire.
>>62877631Hmm. Pretty interesting concept, in that case.
>>62874702its not about aesthetics choice the main problem of multicam is that everybody fucking uses it
Essential third-line / pack gear?>It depends on your missionI know, but some things are universal, right?Tarp, poncho liner, food, water, clothes, what else?
>>62877530>The unicorn for me would be a set of Class III aircrewman plates,Isn't that what the variable body armor used? I've seen sets with the plates come up from time to time.
So why isnt there an armor vest that consists of a front and back normal plate protecting your vitals, and a front and back additional plate, 180 degrees downward, to protect your guts?Pic looks neat but unrelated
>>62877980Because you can just buy groin armor and add it to your preexisting plate carrier
>>62877980Weight mostly. But you can get dickflaps designed to hold plates instead of soft inserts. They are pretty niche because the normal ones already sack tap you. Those are even less fun. But ultimately it comes down to what is the purpose of plates. They aren't to make you invulnerable. They are to protect you from hits that are guaranteed lethal. Like a shot to the heart. A gut shot is bad but not a death sentence with medical care.
>>62874257Good to know.t. guy who has 3d printed holsters and has been considering selling them.
>>62877980You don't realize how annoying it is to have a groin plate attached 24/7.
How can I find proper sizes if I have slim proportions? 86cm underbust, 73cm waist, but I'm 188cm tall. Finding fitting clothing is difficult.
>>62878133I in fact do. >t. IOTV Gen 3 in closet
>>62878134>underbust
>>62878155Can you answer the question?
>>62878134>underbust?
>Actual Trannies ITT
>>62878134For US military sizes you would be a Small-Long which is a pretty uncommon size but for current production you should be able to order stuff. Looking at surplus will be harder. Most stuff is Medium/Large-Regular/Long.
>>62878134>Underbustis a dimension usually only relevant to breast-havers that want tight-fitting shirts, which is generally irrelevant to military clothing apart from dress uniforms. Men measure at the nipples.
>>62877963Variable Armor used B4C, but uses a distinct shape to the Aircrew plates. I just like the ergo cut Aircrew pattern more. Hell Ive never even seen the SiC Class II.
>>62878193Well thanks I'm never asking for help again.
>>62878210Goodl. Kill yourself immediately
>>62871090bruce buffer is wearing tigerstripe camo
>>62878211Why are you so rude to me when I was only asking for help?
>>62878223Shut the fuck up tranny
>>62878234Incel
>>62878198>but uses a distinct shape to the Aircrew plates.I wasn't aware. They look so similar I assumed they were the same shape. I'd like to get my hands on one of the USMC Body armor fragmentation small arms protective vests. Its similar to the variable body armor but the carrier is ERDL and it only has a front plate.
>>62878236Thank you for confirming without a doubt of your transition into retardation
>>62878241Sorry anon I didn't mean to hurt you, I just didn't know you were that sensitive, it's okay
>>62874257I could've told you. Trex has been planning on dropping an als ragnarok for a few years now and have been waiting years for the expiration. They already have prototypes for "RnD" but we know what's up.
>>62877406>uniform evolved to Crye combat line (and eventually to Army issued one)>artisent helmet became Ops-Core Fast and Crye Airfame>vest was first step to Crye Cage, CPC and AVS systems
>>62878134Sew your own. The possibilities are endless
https://imgur.com/a/iqmXFQoFound this in an archived thread from 2023. RMA 1155 rebadged by AR500 was shot three times with .308 Tulammo FMJ at 100 meters. Second shot defeated the plate.I knew the RMA 1155's crack arresting ability was poor but definitely not this bad.For reference, any minimum-spec Level III plate is required to defeat six hits of 7.62x51mm M80, also FMJ, at 2,780ft/s. While Level IV plates like the 1155 are not required to pass the Level III test, they usually don't bomb an easier test, at 100 meters standoff, on the second hit. Even the notoriously "underbuilt" Hesco 4800 is advertised to stop three 7.62x51mm M80.And yes, this RMA plate is the same model that failed the FIT test and weighs 8.3lb.
>>62879505I'm thinking it's the fiberglass backer. If the ceramic is degraded, there's not much the backer can do to stop the threat. A ceramic plate with a thick PE backer can probably tank .308 Tulammo all day.> Hesco 4800 is advertised to stop three 7.62x51mm M80.Reverse scenario. It probably has a thick PE backer so no problems with .308. But there's something wrong with the ceramic layer, because it fails to stop the FIRST fucking shot of .30-06 AP sometimes.
>>62879016That is art.
>>62878134eat and lift weights nigga you'll grow into your kit
>>62878994> Crye AirfameI'd argue that this is probably the worst helmet ever made. There were some threads on it a while back, and it turns out that it actually really sucks at dealing with blast waves. Every other helmet was better. Even wearing no helmet at all was better!WTF Crye?! Like they never even fucking tested it. Even the bridcage helmet is better.
>>62874364I dont think Joe normie would be able to tell the difference at a glance assuming you werent blousing your trousers and polishing said boots to a high sheen like a sperg
>>62878134>>62879965Be sure to drink a gallon of milk every day.
>>62879949>It fails to stop the FIRST shot of .30-06 AP sometimes.So does the 1155, hence the NIJ suspension. It's also advertised by RMA as multi-hit Level IV, so how can it be multi-hit IV when it fails against a Level III-type threat at 100 meter standoff?
>>62879991if those are his real numbers on the image on the right he just needs to start cutting and he'd probably look better desu
>>62879505Yeah that one was funny, how to fuck up what was perfected in the mid-60s?It wouldnt be hard to make a competing design that doesnt suck: Use a slightly higher grade of Alumina (or dont, AD85 is good enuf for IV), laminate front of tile with UHMWPE, back of tile with carbon fiber, and use S-glass instead of E-glass. *maybe* switch to using a phenolic resin for the backer. Price goes up by all of 40 dollars per plate.
>>62873221I hope I'll never need it but I'll have it>>62873263Imagine being a ZOGbot
>>62873694Don't need to be one to shoot guns. You're a gay retard who isn't pretending
>>62873740Yeah that's why I don't read any of these cringe infographics.Anyways, anyone know any plate carrier doo-dads that aren't plates? I don't want plates, but maybe I want to use a plate carrier for utility or whatever. What cool stuff fits in the larp pockets? So far I only know of hydration or weights.
>>62878133I added Tubes adapters to my groin plate for that reason. Makes it easy to don and doff
>>62878236Trannies are incels too, because they choose to snip it off
>>62879991>Squad 595>Dead lift 585Holy shit.
>>62880545> Bench 135lolIn fairness, though, deadlift performance seems to have NOTHING to do with how you look. The best deadlifters I've ever seen IRL, who were doing more than 595, looked like absolute dogshit. Fat with zero visible muscularity.
>>62880367Stuff a couple of trauma pads in there. Some of them are pretty rigid and will do the job.
>>62871090Is templars gear from Cloudtac good?
>>62877409>>62877623The ITSA contract was for a very limited quantity (140 plates) directly from Ceradyne to meet some unspecified "immediate requirement." The telling factors were that the buyer wasn't SOCOM but the Army itself, and that the SPEAR Gen III contract had already been issued by SOCOM a year and a half earlier.ITSA Contract: https://sam.gov/opp/a1191544d9e26e23a15230ca4ab9b1a2/viewSPEAR Gen III Contract: https://sam.gov/opp/57d56053c6f527a00726d37bfc1b93da/viewI don't think we ever found any hard information on the 2572575 aside from the model number and NSNs. Anything else would've been speculation on Berl's part, which is also where the 'AA4s were CIA-contracted plates' bit came from. On a side note, I did also find a SOCOM presentation which confirmed that all of the GEN V family of plates are standalone. Pour one out for the (now-nonexistent) SPEAR Gen V: https://static.dvidshub.net/media/pubs/pdf_26505.pdf (search for 'FTBA' to find the section on plates)
>>62880622Templars Gear is midlevel airsoft shit. Their carriers fall apart fast, and they went all-in on the meme laser-cut molle meme. Some boutique gear shops are good. Others don't know what they're doing. Templar's Gear really don't know what they're doing.
>>62877853Watch some YouTube videos for inspiration. You said it yourself, it depends on the "mission." Where you are and what you're doing is only known to you.
>>62880681The man himself! I'll update the fed-boi infographic with the info from that presentation.
>>62877853- Tarp - Poncho liner- Changes of clothing, with extra socks and underwear- Calorie-dense food. (Nuts, Mars bars, hard cheese, peanut butter, beef jerky, things like that.) - Iodine water purification tablets- Lifestraw- 2-week supply of broad-spectrum antibiotics - Combination antifungal/antibiotic/corticosteroid cream- High-dose ibuprofen- Bush knife- Lightweight entrenching tool- Lightweight rope- Magnesium fire-starter- Aluminum carabiners- Survival blanket- Small tube of DEET+Picaridin- Boonie hat
>>62880698Thanks. Disappointing because they had exactly what I was looking for but better to be disappointed now then after spending 40 bucks.
>>62881303If it's just a pouch or something, it's probably okay. But never buy carriers or chest rigs from them. The quality is on par with random Amazon.com brands, or worse, and most of their carriers are indistinguishable from picrel anyway.
>>62881330I’m planning on running two double mag pouches on either side of my PC, with a radio running sidekick in between my body and cummerbund on the inside, and a SHAW quad placard in the middle with a NERD pouch on the front of the placard (SHAW customer service said they might do a run in that color for Black Friday). Templars seems to be the only company that seems to make the flap style double mag pouch in multicam tropic without retarded amounts of Velcro holding the pouch closed.
>>62881350>without retarded amounts of Velcro holding the pouch closed>almost the entire flap is hookAre you saying you're going to put 2x double mag pouches on each side of your cummerbund? I wouldn't do that since you won't be able to put your arms down. If you insist, then just get ranger green or surplus khaki pouches since they won't be seen on the side of your PC, specific camo won't matter. I have a flapped double mag pouch on the front left bund and I only use it for a single mag.
I found another armor test, this time of the Hesco 4400 rebadged by Spartan Armor in the archives. Made a little mini infographic comparing the two tests.The 4400, in spite of its own NIJ suspension, actually did pretty well? I have a feeling the .30-06 M2AP were reloads into .308 and velocity was short of 2,880ft/s, but the difference in multi-hit ability is clear.
>>62881392Hm. In that case I’ll only run one and see how it works out. I run a Nalgene on my strong side chest rig rn and it doesn’t bother me so I figured having one on each side would be fine, but that’s probably something I want to test first.
>>62879949I don't think the fiberglass backer is the problem there. It's a high areal density solution for a backer but it doesn't mean a plate has poor crack arresting capability. See >>62881405. The 4400 had a fiberglass backer too and an alumina strike face, and yet multi-hit ability was... a lot better. RMA just has a chronic issue with ceramic crack arresting (cheap materials?), probably why they went to a ceramic tile array on the 1189.
>>62881442Weren't the 1189 and 1199 their oldest plates, back when they thought that cheat-rings were clever life-hacks?
>>62881467Not quite. Their first plate was the #1145, which was pretty much just the #1155 but without the drop protection foam. There was some shitstorm on ARFCOM a decade ago because RMA wasn't immediately forthcoming with where the plate was made. It was replaced by the #1155 around 2015-2016 I think. The #1189 and #1199 joined later around 2017. They did not disclose the cheat rings on those for about a year.#1189 was supposed to get a GEN-2 version around 2021 but that never happened. A GEN-2 #1199 with no cheat ring was introduced in 2019-2020 but was discontinued due to sourcing issues for the B4C ceramic, apparently. The #1192 is their current flagship, and has its own issues of the B4C ceramic getting switched out for SiC, among other issues like Buffman getting a 10oz overweight and likely beefed up plate.
>>62881350Dude, just get the Crye model. They're even on eBay:> https://www.ebay.com/itm/325977123078The difference between Crye and "Templar's Gear" is like night and day.
>>6288068196034 uses a unidirectional aramid backer. Not an indictment or anything, just very unusual. Maybe better on a thickness basis than UHMWPE? Only explanation I can think of, since PE had been used for about a decade prior to 2008
>>62881508Maybe a high-temp conditioning thing? Maybe to limit BFD without using so much foam?
>>62880967Fuck forgot alcohol pads and some wet wipes. Those are always good to have.Any anons want to add/remove from the list?
>>62881508>>62881516PE tends to get its ass kicked by hardened penetrators. Maybe this aramid is better at "catching" heavily fragmented small tungsten cores, like the 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP that was originally theorized as being the requirement threat? Notably, Swiss P AP does have a smaller core than M993. See pic related. The overall projectile though is much heavier, with a substantial lead portion behind the penetrator. Higher total sectional density, better BC, more carry-through into the plate backer once the core handles the ceramic strike face, more energy retention at range, etc. So despite having a slightly smaller core, Swiss P AP is well known to outperform M993. VPAM puts it directly above M993 as well.Judging by pic related I got off of reddit, it seems like the current top 7.62x51mm threat is Nammo AP11 LR, not M1158 ADVAP. 7N37 is also present and seems to follow the Swiss P AP school of "heavier, not faster". Makes me wonder how heavy the core is in the new 7N51. Probably at least 8-8.5g. It's understandable that the 96034 is behind the latest threats, it is a 15 year old plate after all. Makes me wonder what the current "ITSA" is like.
Is 120 eurobucks for a barely used Warrior Assault Systems DCS with a few pouches a good price?
>>62881609Here's AP11 bro
>>62881609>>62881647Doesn't look much better than AP8 against steel test plates. It's a bit better at longer ranges, and a bit worse close in.
>>62881627Yeah.
>>62881647>>62881650Thanks for the spec sheets. However, as I'm sure we both know AP11 LR is heavier and slower than AP8 (M993). Steel is more sensitive to velocity than ceramic armor, so the faster projectile will have a slight edge against steel that it wouldn't against ceramic armor. I'd wager AP11 LR is more optimized for ceramic armor than earlier iterations of Nammo 7.62 AP are.
>>62881657Sure, but also, the "LR" designation, the <1.5 MOA note, and the fact that they specify DMRs and sniper rifles makes me think that it's not a general purpose AP round. It's probably really expensive and quite niche.
>>62881694Agreed. It likely fulfills the same "Sniper AP" niche as 7N37 or Swiss P AP. It would make sense to give the "best" anti-personnel AP round to your snipers anyway. It makes little sense to use it in a GPMG when stocks of AP8 (M993) are relatively plentiful and difference against vehicles / barriers would be so minute.XM1158 is an odd duck because it's quite expensive and is yet supposed to replace M993 as a general purpose AP loading. Considering AP11 LR's advantage in core mass, and also including the fact it uses a different tungsten alloy than M993 with 35% higher density, I think it is the more imposing threat for ceramic armor. Goes to show how out of date plates are compared to modern AP ammunition. We're not even getting into the weeds of the .338 penetrators like AP529.
>>62881720> Considering AP11 LR's advantage in core mass, and also including the fact it uses a different tungsten alloy than M993 with 35% higher densityThe AP11 spec sheet says "tungsten carbide" so I think it's the exact same material as the AP8. 168gr vs. 128gr probably comes down to core length + maybe lead or steel filler.
>>62881730Judging by the timing of AP11 LR's introduction, it likely is a cobalt-free alloy that uses other materials like iron or nickel. I think that's where the 35% greater density claim comes from. That's what they use in Mk211 F3 and Nammo AP45, their latest 5.56 AP.
>>62881774Iron has a lower density, though, and nickel and cobalt are exactly the same. Also, the metal binder content of tungsten carbide is like 10%, so changing the metal wouldn't really change the density very much, even if they move to something super-heavy like tantalum. (Which is probably impossible anyway.) > https://www.ceratizit.com/int/en/sustainability/blog/2021/blogposting-cemented-carbide.htmlIf it's tungsten carbide, which the infosheet says it is, the +35% density claim has got to be bullshit.
>>62880579almost like powerlifting is irrelevant to looking good
>>62881815I'll admit, evidence is looking thin. I think it's more likely that was just mistranslated and the core is 35% heavier, not denser.
>>62881871Kinda, yeah. Deadlift performance has little to do with how your physique looks. olympic lifting, too, of course.
>>62881530>>62880967You absolutely do not need a 2-week supply of antibiotics lolI didn't realize fishmox retards were still a thing.
>62881888Trips confirm it ain't 35% denser. Alrighty then.
>>62881507I don’t need the placard, I’m getting that from shaw. the double mag pouch in MT is what I’m trying to find
>>62880178That's a good idea. I suspect but cannot prove they're going to discontinue the #1155 like they did the #1145, #1189, and #1199 and will just keep the #1165 as their new entry-level plate. It has a PE backer, so if other anon is right it shouldn't suck as bad in the multi-hit department.
>>62881906They weigh nothing. Just take them.
Looks like we have another newcomer to the armor industry. Introducing PRIME Armor (not the drink). Pic related is the test report on their 0949 7.3lb standalone Level IV, $390.00 for a SAPI Medium.Most notably, it's tested against two hits of 7.62x51mm M993 at just around XSAPI velocity. BFD is a little on the high side but still within NIJ 44mm.The company's business address is another nondescript industrial park spot like Adept or Stealth Armor Systems. No NIJ certifications, and the model numbers aren't ringing any bells. Their site is a wordpress setup. I can't see anything immediately sus with the test report, but the lack of NIJ certifications is concerning given that the company is two years old.
>>62882214IIRC NIJ has closed 010.06 for new certs and hasn't started publishing 010.07 yet.
>>62881906Depends on what you're doing. If it has the potential to spiral into a SERE situation, those antibiotics could actually come into play.
>>62882224Indeed. The plates in question have gone uncertified since 2022, however. I did some digging and some ARFCOM threads are reporting the materials are sourced from Bulgaria. Not sure how true that is, given we've dealt with vague European facilities before with a certain other company. The exterior cover resembles some of RMA's plates, but that might just be a superficial resemblance.If the 0949 is as good as the NTS test report says it is, then it would be a very persuasive alternative to the Hesco 4403 / Highcom 4S17M. Heavy, but it undercuts the Colossus when it comes to M993 protection. I'd want to see an RF3 certification under 0101.07 before trusting it though.
Buffman gave a statement on reddit regarding the sourcing of their armor. Looks like Bulgaria is the prime suspect... I'll see myself out.>"In this case PRIME is just a reseller right now. They’ve told me they have plans to eventually manufacture/ finish plates over here. Is that a bad thing? It can be. But if they’re continually inspecting their materials and ballistcally testing them for compliance, I have no issues. They don’t make wild claims and don’t make up excuses like 'we can’t show you where our armor is made because then the bad guys would come and rob us'."https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalgear/comments/scirie/prime_armor_nij_level_iii_demo_100_pure_pe_thicccc/
>>62882070>>62882237Explain a situation where a 2-week course of ambiguously-dosed unnamed antibiotics will be useful tactically lol (again given the general nature of this thread probably amoxicillin and probably amoxicillin dosed for fucking goldfish, AKA the kind of shit docs used to give people who needed/wanted a placebo but their body was up to the task of fighting off the infection on its own before we figured out that's how you get super-bacteria)What is your imagined "mission" where this isn't just a waste of space on your kit and a great way to give yourself an even worse infection that's harder if not impossible to treat if/when you make it to a hospital?>depends on what you're doingWhich is what makes it not "essential third-line gear" dude. That was the question.I work in wilderness medicine. Leave the fucking fish mox at home. Better yet, throw it away. The types of traumatic injuries that call for broad-spectrum antibiotics in the field are not gonna be something you treat with anything prescribed/issued in a 2 week supply, and the types of illnesses that those antibiotics actually will treat are only gonna be made worse unless you have enough knowledge to understand types and dosages of antibiotics.
>>62882256>>62882284>Indeed. The plates in question have gone uncertified since 2022, however. OK yeah that's sus>Buffman gave a statement So the question is, who's plates are they reselling? I'm not really familiar with the Bulgarian market. How many suppliers are there?
>>62882339Not many. I'm 80% sure it's MARS Armor that OEMs the plates. They look very similar on the outside. MARS is a large regional manufacturer, like Mehler Vario is for the German market. Some YT tests seem to showcase a Level IV plate with a different cover - where it looks more like a Tencate D-series. Could be a different model. PRIME is an importer after all.Their III+ models - 3810 and 3812 - appear to be rebadged Hescos, so they're kinda all over the place. I wasn't aware the 3812 was for sale. It ain't even on Hesco's site. Huh. The 0949 is obviously the most interesting option.. besides the 3812. Two hit M993 + two hit M855A1 protection for $390.00 is very interesting. I can kind of pencil the plate's specs out if it's a thicker but high quality SiC strike face and budget backing material, so it's about a pound heavier than the LTC 28601 but a lot less money. I don't see anything immediately fishy with the test report, do you? If this plate does what it claims to, it could undercut the Adept Colossus and its one shot of M993 test report out of the CONUS market. Moderately heavier (0.8lb), but cheaper and with superior multi-hit versus M993 going off of listed test reports alone. That's a big IF, though. The 0949 needs a cert just like the Colossus does. We also need to rule out a potential cheat ring. The 0949 is damn cheap for what it does.
>>62873263>It’s faggots who are too pussy to enlist playing dress ups in army man gear jerking off to the fantasy of a collapse scenario where they get to shoot peopleHurtful and accurate
>>62882472Looking at their site, MARS builds their plates to the ancient 010.04 spec. So far less rigorous drop requirement. I also don't see mention of M993 but their product sheet is really sparse on details. I agree that they are a likely candidate. >The 0949 is damn cheap for what it does.Its potentially a great value. And IF it is OEM'd by MARS its probably legit. But it would still be an 04 spec plate. That, along with just different costs in Bulgaria probably explains the price. If they are importing plates from MARS I wonder if they can get other things from them. MARS has a pretty comprehensive line of carriers. They have several models of full cut carriers that the US market just really isn't making right now.
>>62882318>US militaryYou get shot. Your buddies can't come get you because the US can no longer ensure air superiority. You have to crawl back to them or you die.>SHTFNot so much.
>>62882546That's a good point for two reasons.1. If it's built to 0101.04 spec, that would explain why it's not on the 0101.06 CPL. Probably can't pass the drop test. A lot of Highcom's plates are the same way. 4SAS4, 4SAS7, etc. That's a dodgy excuse though, since PRIME has no established rep unlike Highcom. We would need positive proof the plate is really a MARS.2. If it's built to 0101.04 spec, the missing drop protection layer would shave off a decent chunk of weight. We'd probably be looking at a 7.8lb plate if it were built to .06. If the plate is really made by MARS it would be a very nice "poorfag XSAPI" so to speak. RMA in shambles.
>>62882681Yeah MARS has NSNs for their plates. If they are rebranding MARS I would use that as a point of advertising. Hey, our plates are produced by an established NATO armor supplier. >We'd probably be looking at a 7.8lb plate if it were built to .06.Which would make it about a half pound more than the 4S17M which makes sense. This all rests on whether or not they are MARS plates and not some other mystery meat. Buffman may be able to confirm it.
What's weird about Prime is that here's the description on their page:> The Level IV is multi-hit .30-06 M2AP tested by an NIJ-certified laboratory (NTS) and can defeat M2AP rounds as well 7.62x54R – B 32 API including US Military’s new M855A1 rifle round and many other threats!They don't mention M993 at all, and also the test report notes the caliber at .30-06. Could it be a lab mistake?
>>62883424>>62883424Also, on an Arfcom thread from last year, Buffman said that the plates are mildly cheat-ringed, and that "he'd love to demo some" but I guess they wouldn't send him any.So, all in all, weird.
>>62882318You don't go innawoods much, do you? So imagine you're camping, larping, and. . . > You find an embedded tick and later develop a rash resembling a bullseye (indicative of Lyme disease). Starting a dose of doxycycline prevents the illness from progressing.You want antibiotics for this reason alone. Also consider . . .> A raccoon unexpectedly scratches your arm when you try to shoo it away. Animal bites and scratches can lead to infections like pasteurella, especially in remote areas where medical help is hours or days away. Doxycycline fixes this.> A blister from your hiking boots bursts and becomes red, swollen, and painful after being exposed to dirt. Without immediate care, it could develop into cellulitis, requiring antibiotics to prevent a worsening infection. Doxycycline fixes this, too.> Your lifestraw or iodine tablet was bunk, and you accidentally drink unpurified water and later develop symptoms of bacterial gastroenteritis. Doxycycline may help.> While setting up camp, you hit your head on a branch and cut yourself deeply. Such wounds can quickly harbor bacteria like Clostridium tetani or Staphylococcus, which doxycyline helps with.And I could go on all day. As for tactical situations, if you get shot or struck by shrapnel, you'll want to take antibiotics ASAP.Did I mention that a blister pack of antibiotics weighs nothing at all? And who said anything about fish tank antibiotics? Anybody with a >70IQ can stockpile the real stuff without any issues.
>>62883496>You don't go innawoods much, do you?>>62882318>I work in wilderness medicineI've probably spent more time in the woods since April than you have in the last decade lmao.Enjoy your antibiotic-resistant infection, retard.
>>62883541lmao, and you don't recognize that you might want antibiotics on hand if you find yourself bitten by a tick or if you've suffered an animal bite? You must be totally retarded.> M-muh authority suggests that you'd be antibiotic resistant in that case!lol, lmao even
>>62883546Clean the wound, exfil. Again, a 2-week course of doxycycline gets you nothing in the scenarios you're citing.
>>62883568Are you actually brain-dead? If it's a tick, "cleaning the wound" does nothing. Same with many types of animal bite or scratch, because those fuckers can be dirty as hell. In any case, you'll want to take antibiotics before you can see a doctor, for sure. You don't need to take them for two weeks, as you'll probably see a doctor within days, but did I mention that they cost and weigh nothing?Also, if I didn't include the "two weeks," you'd shriek autistically about pathogens developing resistance.
>>62883578You don't want to take anti-biotics BEFORE you go to a doctor you fucking idiot. Improper use of antiseptics and antibiotics create super viruses, and you are not a doctor, you have no fucking idea how to prescribe yourself a course of antibiotics, let alone which antibiotics are which.Don't give unsolicited medical advice you fucking troglodyte.
>>62883600> t. ticklmaooooo> Y-you can't take antibiotics because you're not a doctorHoly shit, do you believe EVERYTHING an authority figure tells you? Let me tell you something. There are many situations in the wild (not your backyard) where you'll want to take antibiotics before you can possibly see a doctor. Even if you're totally clueless, dosing instructions are usually on the package.Did I mention that they cost and weigh nothing?
>>62883615How many weeks do you run your anti-biotics regimen?
>>62883578>bring a course of antibiotics dosed for two weeks>take them preemptively before you see a doctor>don't finish the courseGood god it's fucking insane you're in here calling anybody else retarded lmaoPreemptive antibiotics for every tick bite is not and has not been standard practice for a very long time btw because of the exact concerns being brought up ITT (irresponsible and ineffective usage of antibiotics creating superbugs), and I fucking guarantee you don't actually know the criteria for when doxycycline is appropriate in the case of a tick bite and can't tell me the correct dosage or timing of that dose either.
>>62883615the symptoms from Lyme don't appear right away and you probably won't notice the tick that bit you if you're actually spending 2 weeks in the field. I've actually had lyme and I still go out. Bringing anti-biotics in le third line gear because you think you'll be innawoods for multiple weeks is boog-tier prepper mentality. Ignoring the fact that it's bad medical advice, it's bad practical advice for a packing list. >it weighs nothing, I'll bring it just in case shit kicks off>it weighs nothing, I'll bring it just in case shit kicks off>it weighs nothing, I'll bring it just in case shit kicks off>it weighs nothing, I'll bring it just in case shit kicks off>it weighs nothing, I'll bring it just in case shit kicks off>why is my pack so heavy?
>>62883617>>62883669>>62883714lmao at this samefagging.> Preemptive antibiotics for every tick bite is not and has not been standard practice for a very long time btwYour information is out of date: > https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06837-7
>>62883714Antibiotics, weight 0.02kg.>why is my pack so heavy?Okay, now you seriously need to lift more. Even the before pic in >>62879991 can handle it.
so i bought a czech m85 parka(prob from the 90's) it's cheap and cool but, kinda heavy, the insulation and wind protection is sus, and kinda uncomfortable to open and close because it has too much buttons. so it's not good for winter really. should i just get big brand stuff or are modern milsurp as good?
>Although our results support the use of antibiotics for the prevention of Lyme disease and the advantages of a single dose of doxycycline, routine use of antibiotic prophylaxis is not recommended after a recognized tick bite [17]. In our meta-analysis, we estimated that 50 patients (95%CI: 25–100) would need to be treated (NNT) with single-dose doxycycline to prevent one case of Lyme disease. Therefore, it is essential to determine who is at high risk of infection and who is worthy of treatment.Maybe try reading the fucking study you frantically googled then blindly cited thinking it proved your point next time, dipshit.
>>62883669>fucking guarantee you don't actually know the criteria for when doxycycline is appropriate in the case of a tick bite and can't tell me the correct dosage or timing of that dose either.Modern education systems produce morons who literally can't think for themselves and need "experts" to decide everything. Retard, dosing information is in the packet and is obvious to everybody with a >70IQ. Even the American Association of Family Physicians suggests taking 200mg doxycycline after removing a tick.> https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2021/1200/p652.html> "But it weighs 0.04 pounds and will weigh you down!"Come on now.There are also many other reasons you might want an antibiotic supply on hand.
>>62883854> In our meta-analysis, we estimated that 50 patients (95%CI: 25–100) would need to be treated (NNT) with single-dose doxycycline to prevent one case of Lyme disease.This supports taking them, as there's literally no downside. Imagine being that 1/50 but catching lyme disease because you were too pussy to take a single dose of antibiotics.
>>62883873>This supports taking them, as there's literally no downsideIt literally says that it does not support taking them absent several other diagnostic criteria lol>>62883868This says the same>When all high-risk criteria are met, prophylactic treatment in adults and children with a single dose of doxycycline within 72 hours of tick removal (Table 1) is recommended. Without all high-risk features, monitoring for symptoms is as effective as treatment.You're not even fucking reading these lol
>>62883424>They don't mention M993 at all, and also the test report notes the caliber at .30-06. Could it be a lab mistake?The bullet weight and velocity are correct. Could be a typo. Note the test is also 010.06 "modified" and there wasn't a drop component. That really does make it sound like a 010.04 plate then. >but I guess they wouldn't send him any.So, all in all, weird.Buffman tries to recreate the 010.06 test. If these are 04 spec then they probably know it would do really poorly and make them look bad. Influencer boosts only make sense if they boost you lol.
>>62883889You're totally unable to think for yourself and you've probably never ventured beyond your backyard. The papers say that if you've got a tick and you remove it, you might benefit from a single dose of treatment -- as there's no downside, anybody with any sense will immediately take that dose. There are also 100 more reasons as to why you'd want antibiotics in your kit.> n-noo you can't do that! Also it will weigh you downlmao.
>>62883799>>62883803actually, I changed my mind. Bring all the meds you can carry. Especially your schizophrenia meds.
>>62883910> Y-you can't take antibiotics that you weren't prescribed!!! > I-it will weigh you down.This is beyond even reddit-tier. Is your brain okay, bro?Antibiotics are a sensible part of any sustainment kit, and you've yet to provide a single credible reason to the contrary. This doesn't count:> N-nooo, you don't have permission, and I bet you don't know what you're doing
>>62883873>>62883868>>628839041) I havent said a single thing about weight, more than one person thinks you are retarded and we're all right. You included a 2-week course of broad-spectrum antibiotics "essential third-line gear" which is fucking retarded, and the way you've shifted the goalposts there indicates to me that you've probably realized that too2) there absolutely are downsides, which is why every single one of these links you keep posting say explicitly and repeatedly not to just blindly take antibiotics if a tick bites you lol3) all the "100 more reasons" are actually stupider and even more based on a misunderstanding of how antibiotics funciton than the one you're hammering down on, which is why you're handwaving themTo be clear idgaf if you lose a limb or die because you're too arrogant to realize how stupid you are, but hopefully other anons ITT can tell by this point you're talking out your ass
>>62883923>he's startong to post reddit screenshots
>>628839331. They weigh nothing and cost nothing, and they're seriously good to have. 2. You have yet to note any. "Muh superbugs" lol. "You don't have permission!!" 3. Totally wrong. You're so brainbroken that you can't conceive of people actually figuring out how to use medicine and first aid for themselves. Sad!
I want antibiotics guy to say which antibiotics he's talking about. You don't get a bottle of "antibiotics" You get a bottle of amoxicillin etc. Each type will effect different bacteria. Which do you plan to carry? Are you gonna fill your backpack up with random ass grey market medications and try to self diagnose an infection on the trail? Or are you just gonna take some random cocktail you've come up with?
>>62883933>To be clear idgaf if you lose a limb or die because you're too arrogant to realize how stupid you are, but hopefully other anons ITT can tell by this point you're talking out your assYou'll die if you take antibiotics after a tick or animal bite, or if you get an infected blister!!Are you joking? How do you see this playing out?
>>62883961It's upthread. Doxycycline is good for most wilderness and injury things, including tick and animal bites. If dirty water is a real problem, you'll want something else, but even there it can help.
>>62883956>You're so brainbroken that you can't conceive of people actually figuring out how to use medicine and first aid for themselvesAgain I'm a wilderness paramedic, anon. One who's actually seen people lose limbs because they handled infections incorrectly, including fucking up dosage of antibiotics and making later treatment at the hospital ineffective. You, on the other hand, are inadvertently making a great case for people needing to take a cognition test before they're allowed to use the internet.
>>62883967>uses>Acne>gonorrhea>chlamydia>syphilis>malariaI don't think Anon is worried about animal bites. He's looking to fuck a hillbilly meth whore.
>>62883983> I'm a wilderness paramedic, anon>including fucking up dosage of antibiotics and making later treatment at the hospital ineffective.lol, yeah right. I'd bet that both are lies. Do you have a single paper or case study which supports any scenario where a guy "fucked up a dosage of antibiotics" and lost a limb or died? You're literally making shit up.
>>62883993Malaria is a mosquito-borne disease and there are about 2000 cases in the USA per year.
>>62871090>Just moved to downtown Denver highrise What binoculars should I get for people-watching? Vortex is having a big sale on GovX at the moment. Are those good?
>>62871572Looks like shit
>>62884001Dude, are you that autistic? I ended with a non-STD to make it funnier.
>>62884017I have a pair of the small Vanquish ones and they're good. I'm sure there are better ones, but for $100 the glass quality is fine. I bought those specifically for the size, if you can get bigger they'll be better. The Vanquish ones fit in a padded PVS-14 insert.
>>62884043
>>62884059>new shit-frogskinDamn the edits are coming in fast.
>>62871602>upgrade JPC thingwhat upgrade jpc thing?
>>62880367You can put MED gear in the plate pockets.
>>62884330Still hasnt come out>>62884017Whichever fast tracks you to not living in downtown Denver anymore.>>62883961>hes not gram staining on the trail
>>62884454>ditching armor to get your healing faster than your opponents DPSAn interesting strategy
>>62884644is the jpc 2.0 still the best option in current year coupled with hoplite light plates?
>>62884017>colorado>downtown in a city>apartment buildingYou have several issues you should address prior to thinking about fucking binos.
>>62884734Best for what? The JOC is a quality carrier but its small and lightweight. its' not the best fit for everyone. Depends on what you need. IMO not enough anons consider BALCS rigs.
>>62884734Its a pretty good carrierVery strong argument for the SPC as well but a used 2.0 is basically sand on a beach right now and still performs very nicely.>Yes
>>62885057is this helmet shit? https://www.hoplitearmor.com/products/body-armor-level-iii-rifle-rated-ach-helmet-fully-loaded
>>62884708Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for ditching plates. I just wanted to show that anon something that could fit in the plate pockets.The med sleeve is designed to go behind the plates.
>>62885436Seems like a dumb idea to put med there. If you need it, the plate has been hit and whatever was behind it was crushed between the plate and your chest. Or it has a hole in it but in that case you are probably dead anyways.
>>62885450That's an issue that would happen to an exposed IFAK outside of the plate also. That doesn't stop people from carrying an IFAK, because it could potentially get damaged.IIRC, it was developed by a medic who had treated someone who was hit by an explosion that had blown up the patient's IFAK. He wanted the med to be someone that would be able to resist that explosion.I understand that it doesn't work for everyone. If you don't have an SOP for it, and you have cummerbund/belt space, then go with what you're comfortable with. This is an easy way to plus up Med gear. Some units already put they FWB/Vampire kits behind their plates, so this isn't some fringe outlier.I wasn't trying to get people to buy it. The anon wanted to know what would go in a plate pockets, besides plates, so I answered his question.
>>62885092> https://www.hoplitearmor.com/products/body-armor-level-iii-rifle-rated-ach-helmet-fully-loadedIt's the most basic aramid high-cut helmet you can get. The specs on the website are busted. The real specs are here: > https://armorsource.com/product/as-200/The mlok rails are even shitter than usual, because they're boltless so you can't fiddle with them as much as you need to. Total ass. The price is okay, though. If you NEED a basic helmet at a pretty low price, and if you don't mind dogshit rails that require adapters for everything, you could do worse.
>>62885679NTA, but can't you get those ArmorSource helmets with the bolted on rails? I thought they offered different options. Can't tell from Hoplite's product age which variant they're selling though. I wonder if their ARC rails are the real deal.
>>62885983Used to be possible. Haven't seen them around lately. Not on Hoplite's site and not on Armorsource's site.
>>62885556I can see the logic. I just think putting your medical in the same spot you know will be damaged when you need it is like storing the fire extinguisher right next to the gas can. If a fire starts you wont be able to grab it.
redpill me on drones and thermal drones
>>62886130>Buzzing blades take flight, >Eyes in the sky, watch and wait, >Doom from distant heights.Any questions?
>>62886130Thermal drones are the best way to find a warmblooded creature while not being noticed and its not even close
>>62886168any reccs on drones? also any resources on evasion? >>62886175seems to be the case
>>62886347>any reccs on drones?Budget?
>>62886355I know good ones are prolly at least a couple grand so around there I guess
>>62886365Only if you cansoftware version >DJI Mavic 2 Enterprise ThermalOtherwise>Autel Evo 2 V2 640T Enterprise
>>62886371Can verify software*
>>62871512can you tell us more about that shotgun? what would it take to make something like that?also cool kit anon
>>62886347If you are worried about chink backdoors and price isn't a problem, you can build your own using western sources parts. https://arkelectron.com/product/ark-jetson-orin-nx-ndaa-bundle/
>>62886612Started off as a shockwave and was then stamped to an AOW for delicious $5 stamp.Had it chopped down to a 2+1 tube, fixed a lasercut endplate onto the end of barrel, screw holds plate to tube. Pump piece and handle are custom one offs directly welded to action bars.Its pretty good, you can lock the action if you pump it at a really goofy angle since didnt opt to do ball bearings along the tube. Minor issues since you cant actually fire the gun and hold that angle on account of it moving so much in your hands. The roombroom is loud as shit and extremely concussive but it is very compact and is super easy to move around in tight buildings. Everyone fears their hands at first but its just acceptance eventually.
>>62886635>its just acceptance eventuallyI do not accept
>>62886049I completely understand what you mean. I think it is worth thinking about it from a slightly different perspective though.Instead of "putting Med gear where it is likely to get damaged" think of it as "putting Med gear in the highest protected area to give you the best chance of that gear staying usable".Plates are primarily there to stop the CNS killer shots from occuring. It isn't just that it is the highest likelihood of getting hit. If that were the case, then personnel would be made to wear larger plates covering neck to nuts, 360 around the torso. The plates (front/back/side) are primarily to stop hits to heart, lungs, & great vessels that can't be repaired immediately on the battlefield.
>>62886049>>62886708Medkits behind plates are not intended to be primary IFAKS, but extra first aid supplies you can access with the PC off during casevac (or at least once you're off the x). They are not meant to be a substitute for a readily accessible IFAK.
>>62886882after seeing ukraine/idf guy talk about a extra medical pouch I've started doing the same and packing what amounts to 2 IFAKsalways have lots of medical and can even toss someone my extra one if things get bad
>>62886912I have an IFAK on my belt, and then a dangler filled with medical supplies.
>>62884644Don’t even pretend for a second you know the first fucking thing about ABs you insufferable larper.>>62883956You are an actual retard. You’ve demonstrated quite clearly through your posts that you don’t actually understand antimicrobial coverage and I guarantee you’ll self administer an inappropriate AB if you get sick. I get patients like you in my ED all the fucking time who come in after taking a pill cocktail of random ABs they had left over from 5 years ago.t. FACEM
>>62886912I keep an IFAK on my belt with its own TQ and a roll one on my PC with three TQs on my PC so no matter what happens I atleast have one IFAK on me
Sup fags. I'm in the market for a split front chest rig that takes kydex inserts and has molle on the front to mount other pouches, but also has flaps over the pouches to keep dirt out. Im aware of the esstac bushboar, which has kydex but doesn't look like it would take mag flaps easily, and I'm also aware of the Beez one which has a high back that seems ideal to stitch some flaps to but doesn't appear to have any velcro to retain kydex. Does such a thing exist or do I have to make some shit myself? Im not opposed to making shit, Id just rather spend for something ready made.
>>62887109lmaooStill waiting for a single (1) example of somebody who lost a limb or died because he administered himself an antibiotic after a bug or animal bite. You lying faggot.All of your arguments literally boil down to "I worked hard for this certificate, this piece of paper, you can't bypass that!!!"
>>62888577Maybe try split rigs with molle front and velcro pouches, then you can plug in whichever magazine inserts with kydex you want, Haley MP2s, Kywis, Unobtanium SLEDS, etc. Pic related is from Tardigrade Tactical.https://www.tardigradetactical.com/collections/mcrs-modular-chest-rig-system/products/recon-split-front-chest-rig-front-size-12-aMaybe you could just buckle two pouch style placards (WTF Panel 05, Shaw Arc V3 etc) onto each other and plug in whatever harness.Raptor has velcro flaps you could get instead of sewing it yourself. https://raptortactical.com/multipurpose-flapper-double-magazine-flap/
>>62888975Fuck, wrong quote.>>62888433
>>62888577Nta but I mean, allergies are a thing.
>>62888992Yeah but that's not exactly what the guy was talking about, and antibiotics you get from your doctor, or FACEM (lol), or wilderness paramedic (lol^2) can also put you into shock and kill you if you are allergic. So come on little buddy >>62887109 -- show me what you've got.
I've been trying to condition myself in plates (got em a few weeks back) but every time I wear them for longer than an hour my back hurts afterwards. Suggestions?
>>62889742I should add I'm not old or unfit or anything I'm just 6'3
>>62889751Where does your back hurt? How does it hurt?
>>62889742How's your carrier set up? Is it front-heavy? How much does it weigh?
>>62889780It's the one in the pic of >>62871437 , and it's almost perfectly balanced on account of literally just being cloth with a front and back steel plate. Is is uncomfortable, mainly since it sags on my delts, though that's something I have plans to amend by resewing. >>62889768Mid-lower back where the spine curves. Not very much, moreso throbbing when I lay down after, but it is consistent. Could just be I'm not used to wearing it yet.
>another new release>still no multicam tropicI really have to do everything myself, don't I? Contemplating dyeing the Multicam, get the Ranger Green and paint it or buy some Multicam Tropic mesh from China.
>>62892144Dying the multicam would be by far the best and easiest option, if you know what you're doing. >>62889998How heavy is it?
>>62892144>>62892342Yeah, you can dye multicam. I would buy some multicam laminate sheets and do test dyes on them before trying to dye the actual product if I were you. Maybe take a gander at YouTube to see what people have done with multicam that might work for you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwGjMO9HU-k
>>62886635fixing sick, thanks man
>>62871147Is there a graphic for meshtastic and other tech that interfaces with ATAK?You can currently get .mil grade tablets for $80 on Amazon. Samsung tab active2
>>62892342Each weighs about 8, so ~17 all together.
>>62871099Anyone here have any experience with the Agilite Magnetix or Warrior Assault Systems T1 tegris belts? US made gear is comically expensive in my europoor country. I dislike a lot about Agilite but I'm inclined to choose the option that uses curv because it glows less under NVGs. Yes that matters for my use case. I'm currently using an M-Tac Tegris belt which is uh, not that good.
>>62893349I'm no fane of Agilite but I've heard good things about their belt from dudes who weren't fans of Agilite's carriers. As far as Tegris or CURV glowing under IR, I have 1 item with exposed Tegris that I spray painted to avoid that. The only CURV item I currently own is the Guardian Warrior Solutions Bang Hanger, and I got the Cordura laminate wrap for it to cover that up. Not sure about the glow of Tegris vs. CURV, but I do know Tegris glows.
>>62886374Pray tell what you mean by verifying software?
>>62892144>>62892342>>62892402I came to the same frustrating realization when I went shopping for affordable field pants and shirts in multicam tropic online. So I found the same video, said fuck it, took one of my uniforms and happy to say I am pleased.Pic rel is the results side by side
>>62893782The wedding pic of course
>>62893788And here is an actual colorway effectiveness test, and I have to say when I did this in my backyard and then in the mountains it works great for appalachia and just the dark greens of the east coast. Would recommend
>>62893782>>62893788>>62893792Damn, that came out looking great. Good work.
>>62893803Thanks man
>>62888577>Still waiting for a single (1) example of somebody who lost a limb or died because he administered himself an antibioticGo to literally any hospital with an Infectious Diseases ward and you'll find dozens of patients with central lines for long-term IVABs because they've contracted multi drug resistant pathogens. Google ESBLs, MRSA, VRE, TB, and antimicrobial stewardship and then come back to me. I literally see this shit on a daily basis. People get CAP, take random ABs they have at home for 2 weeks then present to ED because they haven't got better because the ABs they took didn't cover what they had. Diabetics lose toes, feet and legs all the fucking time from tiny little wounds because they sit at home chugging random ABs thinking it's all the same shit.
>>62894194Come on, man. One example. One case study. The smallest shred of evidence.
>>62894462>one exampleI just listed 6 examples in that post you fucking retard
>>62894482Zero case studies, zero examples. Dude, you're a lying faggot.
>>62894560Give me ONE (1) example of a healthy person who took "the wrong antibiotic" in the wilderness and died or lost a limb because of it. Easy mode: Doesn't have to be in the wilderness.
>>62894560Holy fuck you’re retarded, there are literally millions of fucking patients in hospitals right fucking now with exactly the fucking problem you’re describing. Resistance to Penicillin was observed within the same fucking year that it was discovered. I literally already mentioned ESBLs, MRSA, VRE, MDRTB go fucking do 1 millisecond of a google search and read the trials and case studies yourself you fucking retarded fish antibiotic drinking moron
>>62894482lol you know that’s not what he’s saying. He wants evidence not “I saw this”
>>62894672Not helping your case.
>>62889742Do lunges and shit with them, your description is vague as shit so can't say much besides suck it the fuck up. Muh back yeah that very specific one muscle yeah that hurts right
>>62894194There's moxyfloxacin in pill packs for a reason. antibiotic resistance is a problem but it doesn't take priority over the need for prophylactic antibiotics at point of injury in tactical setting.
>>62894672Stop replying to him.
>>62894963Are you actually fucking retarded? Literally this month I had a Pt in his 20s die of Strep A Nec Fasc he got from an infected LL insect bite. Pt was a foreign national with no insurance and had been self administering unprescribed amoxicillin.>>62895299Fuckhead I have worked pre-hospital retrieval, I actually know prophylactic antimicrobial coverage and it doesn’t include fish antibiotics bought online
>>62895713Is there a difference between fish moxyfloxacin? I've just been issued that shit or bought it from the pharmacy otc.t. combat medic
>>62895713ONE case study. ONE verified example. Come on. "I saw this one time, trust me, my uncle works at Nintendo" doesn't count. Give me ONE (1) example of a healthy person who took "the wrong antibiotic" in the wilderness and died or lost a limb because of it. Easy mode: Doesn't have to be in the wilderness.
NEW: >>62895948NEW: >>62895948NEW: >>62895948NEW: >>62895948NEW: >>62895948
>>62895713bro it really happened to a buddy of mine bro!!!
