ASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersLast thread: >>23793587
first for dolorous edd
>>23807727What’s the deal behind Preston Jacobs, why is he so autistic and controversial? I heard he stole some art for his old videos?
>>23807765I hate this faggot so much
>>23807715Nice image, anon. What was the reason you choose that image?
>>23807715It irritated me, the way the show would change around minor lines so they didn't mean the same thing at all anymore. Like when the Hound beats Beric and Arya is shouting at him to go to Hell, Beric appears and says "he already has." In the show that becomes "he will," totally nullifying the impact. Just why?
>>23807836Shut up, whiny toad.
>>23807772You hate everyone, the fuck you’re talking about?
>>23807836The writers egos. They feel in their bones they are inferior to the author they are adapting and have to find ways to leave their mark. GOT actually got lucky in the sense that the writers liked the books and mostly tried to be faithful when they had books to adapt, other adaptions like the Witcher had writers who mocked the source material behind closed doors and completely rewrote it to insert their own baggage.
>>23808117Baggage rhymes with gabbage.
Small wonder that the Seven Kingdoms thought the free folk scarcely human. They have no laws, no honor, not even simple decency. They steal endlessly from each other, breed like beasts, prefer rape to marriage, and fill the world with baseborn children.
>>23808100But I don't, I love many people and many things
>>23808226Alright then. I take my words back. But you hate Preston and faggots atleast.
Why is he so obsessed with redheads?
>>23808319Red hair is special in First Men culturethere is evidence he has an interest in harrenhal and the prophecies surrounding it
>>23807765Preston was a contributor to some stuff to the Westeros.org forums as Skinchanging Sweetrobin in 2013-2014. His theories, at least his early were the same ones you can see on his page. He was also inspired by Bran Vras, who wrote the Winterfell Huis Clois about his Grand Northern Conspiracy which was different than the ‘mainstream’ one. If you read his stuff you realize Preston had adapted a lot of his ideas and writing style.Hard to say he didn't bring a lot of insightful ideas to the ASOIAF community, both his own and others like Bran Vras’ that were posted on the forums Lemongate, Dorne). Around 2008-2014 is when all the community was focused on R+L=J and Azor Ahai. (Probably the most representative of that was Apple Martini on the forums; she is also Kelsey L Hayes who is famous on Quora and notably despises Preston Jacobs and is considered crazy even by Westeros.org). Most of the ASOIAF content creators you see today (Alt Shift X, In Deep Geek, David Lightbringer, History of Westeros) come from this group.As for stealing art: Preston is off about a lot of things but this wasn’t one of them. Aziz and Ashaya ten years ago of History of Westeros falsely accused him of stealing art for his videos and had told people to flag his content. His channel was taken down for a bit but he got it back.t.pre AFFC asoiaf fan
>>23808156But le noble savages...It's interesting how George depicts the First Men as protagonists but also savages. Between the Free Folk and the Mountains Clans and the Ironborn, the FM are all savages. The most noble of them is the Andalised North.
Which book has the best prologue in your opinion?
>>23808480Dance, just because I like Varamyr
>>23808480AGOT's prologue convinced me to read the series
>>23808480ACOK's prologue is one of my favorite chapters in the entire series.
I'm trying to reread the main series, but I've spent so much time hearing theories, reading stuff about the lore, etc, that it hinders my enjoyment. I can't read the first chapter without inmediatly thinking of those thousands of theories I've heard, or about what happens later. Fuck, I wish I could read them again as if I had never read them before.
>>23808473>the Andalised North.What's Andal about them exactly? They don't worship the seven or have a prominent knightly culture. Only thing I can think of is the common tongue and even that is down to poor worldbuilding from Martin. Also, calling the people who built marvels of engineering like Winterfell, Storm's End, the Wall and even the Citadel savages is kinda wild.
There is a question I can't get out of my mind: Is Theon's love for the Starks a form of Stockholm syndrome?
>>23809058Greyjoy's are just so dogshit you'd hard pressed not to want a different family. Theon's actual brothers beat the fuck out of him all the time. Then when he gets back it turns out his sister has spent the last ten years usurping him.
>>23808480A Clash of Kings starring Measter Cressen Headcanon: Cressen is ein Stormlander, just like the Baratheons.
>>23808659>Fuck, I wish I could read them again as if I had never read them before.Fuck! Me too, anon. Me too.
So what was Brynden doing for fifty years while he was hooked up to a bunch of tree roots in a cave?
>>23809381Gooning. The real question is who are the other greenseers and what are they doing all day.
>>23808480ACOK hands down. Cressen's inner monologue about the Baratheon boys being like his own sons and how he feels abandoned by Stannis and him no longer feeling useful legitimately made me tear up. I work with elderly in care and the thought process is spot on. It's sad that Cressen had no one to care for him in the end. During this period of their lives, old folks are more like children than adults.
>>23808679Anon probably was just referring to Ned Stark, who grew up with all of Jon Arryn's moral code instead of typical Northmen moral code. The Northmen were always fiercely loyal to the Starks because the Starks are a supernatural font of power as much as they are military demigods (no Stark army has ever lost a direct battle). Ned in particular was a different animal with Arryn moral code, so the Northmen that typically revolve around might-makes-right found this steady-handed and wise Stark to be fascinating and deserving of loyalty.>common tongueThe Andals have been on Westeros longer than the First Men have existed on the continent before the Andals, the dominant language is going to be Andal in origin.>>23809381>>23809400We don't know if there is a selected trait for who can be a greenseer other than they must descend from First Men. Brynden through his mother descends from the First Men. Bryndon through his father descends from dragonlords. That combination could be what empowers Brynden to keep his free will.We don't have a codified definition of greenseers, their traits, their limits, and so on. We never will, because GRRM believes magic should be undefined and mysterious as a source of horror and never benevolence. The good in the world only comes from mortal men, which is a direct contradiction to most fiction where the evil in the world exclusively comes from men. This ironically creates a bridge between GRRM and Tolkien; the mortal men of the world are the final agents incarnate of good.
Just read all three Dunk&Egg books, they were good. I fear the showrunners will try to bloat the story with unnecessary filler and when the time comes to show the real important stuff, like Baelor Breakspear, hot tomboyish redhead, Bloodraven crushing second Blackfyre rebelion before it even started - it's going to suck hard
>>23809560>the dominant language is going to be Andal in origin.It shouldn't be in the North where Andal invasions were thrown back. It makes even less sense that wildlings like Ygritte also speak common.
>>23809381Trimming the Targaryen tree until only Aerys and Rhaela's line remained. Motherfucker probably skinchanged into Maekar to kill Baelor.
>>23809616How does this work in line with Lemongate?
He could never bear to be long apart from his twin. Even as children, they would creep into each other’s beds and sleep with their arms entwined. Even in the womb. Long before his sister’s flowering or the advent of his own manhood, they had seen mares and stallions in the fields and dogs and bitches in the kennels and played at doing the same. Once their mother’s maid had caught them at it... he did not recall just what they had been doing, but whatever it was had horrified Lady Joanna. She’d sent the maid away, moved Jaime’s bedchamber to the other side of Casterly Rock, set a guard outside Cersei’s, and told them that they must never do that again or she would have no choice but to tell their lord father. They need not have feared, though.
>>23807836The show truly paid the iron price.
>>23809611but it does make sense, North is a vast place, but the only thing they have is wood. All rich resources are down south and they need to trade with them.I think if North had anything in value - Andals wouldn't give up on conquering it after first invasion
Brienne is stronger than I am!The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so... by rights, she should be the one wearing down!
>>23809628https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIm5EDN9OOY&ab_channel=CaptainTime>but ties with lemons make it seem much more likely that Alayne Stone is secretly Daenerys Targaryenahahahahahahahaha
>>23809628>>23809652
>>23809611Rome did not conquer Ireland, but 1500 years later the people of Ireland predominantly speak english, a language where half of the lexicon is from latin (true latin->english as well as latin->french->english, etc). The Andals did not conquer the North, but 2000 years minimum have elapsed since the Andal invasion.I have to expand on what I wrote since it went over heads>The Andals have been on Westeros longer than the First Men have existed on the continent before the AndalsThere wasn't a long history of the First Men before the Andals arrived. The First Men arrive, they war with the CoTF, the Long Night happens, then the Night King happens, and then Bran the Builder happens. The Andals arrived next. How long did this take? Less than 2000 years. How long ago would northmen think the Andals invaded? 8000 years ago. How long ago does the Citadel say the Andals invaded? 2000 years ago.For scale, 2000 years ago for us was Rome. 4000 years ago for us was pharaohs looking at their smooth great pyramids. 8000 years ago for us was the stone age. There's a possibility the First Men did not even share the same language overall, because they did not have enough time to stabilize a single language. They would have numerous languages, similar but not mutually intelligible, with poor correlation to the geography they still recently settled. The Andals show up with a defined widespread language, and introduce a writing system. 2000 years is a long enough time for Andal language to displace whatever proto-languages the First Men spoke. 8000 years is more than enough time, overkill even, for Andal language to be the only language on the continent.Wildlings include exiles from south of the Wall, and Mance Rayder is the most famous recent southerner to count among wildlings. He organized the wildlings into enough of a cohesive body to match the Night's Watch in full hostility. That's just one southerner. Over the thousands of years since the Wall went up, plenty of southerners can affect wildling culture, including their language.GRRM isn't a linguist, but he didn't write an impossible timeline for language evolution.
>>23809692Rome didn't conquer Ireland, but the English did. That's why English is spoken there.The Andals didn't conquer the North, and neither did the Targaryens, it doesn't make sense for all of Westeros to speak one language.
Why does it matter whether fAegon is from the male line of Blackfyres or not? Even according to primogeniture he's still legitimate.
>>23809643>the only thing they have is woodNo they literally have silver mines in white harbor and the Ryswells breed fine horses not to mention all the wool, fur and sundry other things they could realistically trade. House Stark even had its own fleet at one point that Brandon the Burner got rid of in rage that would've been utilized for business with everyone on the other side of the Narrow sea. Also, the southrons gave up their invasions because Moat Cailin is supposed to be impregnable from the south.>>23809692>Rome did not conquer Ireland, but 1500 years later the people of Ireland predominantly speak englishThe Irish were victims of conquest and colonization. The Northerners weren't. >The Andals show up with a defined widespread language, and introduce a writing systemWhy would they when both the Citadel and the order of Maesters predate them according to the world book. Kingdoms, castles, centers of learning and knowledge, all these things literally existed. The Andals weren't invading a completely unlettered and backwater shithole which is why they had to marry and integrate into places like the Westerlands and Stormlands while conquering others like the Vale.
The Brotherhood Without Banners must put more effort in protecting the smallfolk and their villages from the invading forces. Everywhere I see burned villages, slaughters smallfolk, burned fields, crops stolen or destroyed, septs plundered, etc.
>>23809802If you think about it the Blackfyres are descended from a more senior branch of House Targaryen than actual Targs.
>>23809903There's like thirty guys in the BWB. They do the best they can.
>>23809903Skill issue. They should have built stone holdfasts.
>>23808524In hindsight it's kind of funny that George has taken so long writing ASOIAF that zombies went from barely known to overused by the time the adaptation had come out. Really missed his window
GUNPOWDER
>>23808480Easily ACOK.
>>23809903BWB are no longer doing that. With new leader their main goal now is to hunt down and execute Freys.
The absolute state of it.
>>23810698>you're not gonna believe this, guy become a millionaire by writing fantasy novels.he thinks writing is like doing gardening. >his garden looked like shit.
>>23809692>Rome did not conquer Ireland, but 1500 years later the people of Ireland predominantly speak englishBecause England conquered Ireland. Languages don't just replace each other without some sort of conquest. "Affecting" another language means they exchange some words, and maybe share an alphabet or something; you're talking about languages being completely displaced and somehow not diverging between groups that are heavily politically and geographically divided.>2000 years is a long enough time for Andal language to displace whatever proto-languages the First Men spoke. 8000 years is more than enough time, overkill even, for Andal language to be the only language on the continent.It's also more than enough time for each kingdom to develop their own language. There was more linguistic diversity within most large European areas (i.e. France, Iberia) than there is over the entirety of Westeros. It's not a massive deal for world building or anything, but this is a really silly hill to die defending.Realistically every kingdom would have a distinct language, with the Iron Isles and North being very distinct. Then the nobility would speak some high Andal language (i.e. Latin to French/Spanish/Italian) and/or Valyrian after the Targaryen conquest to communicate with one another.
>>23808319Redheads are touched by fire...
what the fuck is the end goal of Arya? is she suppose to be a traveler like in the show? She has no companion that have any merchant ships or talented in sailings...
>>23811211shes going to die in her revenge quest
>>23811211george is going to intrude a new character who is "le good" and "le wholesome" which cause arya to reconsider revenge, but ultimately chose to go for revenge after all who has wrong family after finding out jon snow is dead. later on you will see her having difficulty thinking of her old home as home and wanting to go back to adventuring with her bro
>>23811211Wife pretty boy Edric Dayne and whelp a whole lot of children.Arya ends up marrying a southern lord while Sansa ends up as the Stark in Winterfell, perfect ironic ending.
>>23808480prologues ranked, best to worst>ACOK>AGOT>ASOS>AFFC>ADWD
>>23810854kek
How hard is GRRM for ESLs? I've read few books in english, but only short ones <200 pages. Is George's prose difficult?
For some reason, I really like the city of Oldtown. It has the only Academy/University in Westeros, the biggest Sept, a huge ass tower and it's filled with interesting secondary characters and sub-plots, like with the whole ordeal concerning the faceless men and whatever the hell's up with the obsidian candles. Too bad it's one of those places that are a result of GURM getting too excited for secondary and tertiary subplots instead of focusing on the main plot
>>23811311Not at all
I hate how ever present the "Who is Azor Ahai?" discussions are in the fandom. The whole point of the red comet in ACOK was to drive home the point that in this story there are no concrete answers to those kinds of questions. Every POV thinks the red comet is for them or their side. I think it's entirely intentional that multiple characters fulfill some of the prophecy. Jon, Stannis,and Dany are all Azor Ahai, and not Azor Ahai. It's just such an irrelevant question. It'd make ASOIAF a very boring story if in a future book we were told that Azor Ahai is x and they're gonna save the world.
>>23811264Imagine being the southern lord that marries Arya. You think you're gonna get a cute princess wife and you end up with heavily traumatized former child assassin with dead eyes.
>>23811358Arya can fake it.
>>23810698It's incredibly how AFFC and ADWD absolutely accomplish nothing in the grand scheme of things>Cerseibarely advances her plot, she spends 2 books plotting in King's Landing and getting fat from all the wine, only to end up being imprisoned by the High Sparrow after plotting against Margaery for like 10 chapters>JonHe's the only one who had some semblance of progression in his arc, but he should have died sooner>AryaSpends 2 books in Braavos>Tyrion2 books after he escaped King's Landing and he STILL hasn't met with Dany>DaenerysMeereeneese knot. ADWD should have ended with her scorching the Ghiscari/Volanteen fleet, as well as meeting the Dothraki>Branhas like 2 chapters overall >Sansahas like 3 chapters overall and she doesn't even marry Harry the heir>JaimeTravels around the Riverlands and his subplot there is still incompleteJesus christ, I just realized how much of those two books is spend on tertiary characters who we never met or had watched from their POV before. Areo Hotah, Arianne, Asha, Victarion, Aeron, Quentyn, Sam, Brienne, etcthe only significant thing that sets the plot forward in these 1200 pages is fAegon invading (which seems to happen too rapidly, given the pace of everything else) and Jon kicking the bucket
>>23811331NTA but I'm an ESL as well. I recently read LOTR in English and I've had little difficulty with it, apart from some words (particularly, descriptives of locale that are mostly defunct in everyday English use nowadays, such as dell, coomb and hollow). How does ASOIAF compare to that? I've only read it in French
>>23811417They are mostly just filler to fill in the ditched 5 year gap.
>>23810391Before the leadership of Lady Stoneheart I was talking about.
>>23811426French frog
>>23811355I agree with everything you said, I still think it would be cool as fuck for someone to fulfill the prophecy in a way that makes sense
>>23811627I'm on team "the Azor Ahai has three heads".
>>23811417Books 1-3 are about the surface level to the war in WesterosBooks 4-5 are about the esoteric conspiracies underlying everything. Euron, Bloodraven, the Boltons, the Faceless Men, the Varys plot, the Martell plot, Oldtown. We knew very little about any of this in the first three books. AFFC and ADWD expand the story and make it much more interesting in my opinion. That said neither book ends on a satisfactory conclusion which is probably why they're not as loved as ASOS.
>>23811211Arya will genocide House Lannister and live happily ever after
>>23812392This post was brought to you by the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.
>>23809579Three books that are one fairly short novel combined...They have actual material for maybe 5 episodes.There will be bloat aplenty.
>>23812392Cersei already did most of the work and Tyrion will finish it by the time Arya comes back to Westeros
>>23811426If you can understand Tolkien you can understand every English novelist
>>23811426ASOIAF is easier.
>>23811315I'd have Oldtown instead of DorneFUCK DORNE
>>23811355>Every POV thinks the red comet is for them or their side.It just shows that people interpret things through their beliefs, the best example being the R'hllorists who believes that the promised prince is Azor Ahai. There won't be multiple prince, just as there haven't been multiple seas invading Winterfell or multiple maid with purple snakes in their hair.
I really like AFFC because it covered the *aftermath* of war which is something I hadn't read before. Though I admit I'm not very well read.
>>23809480Don't make me cry anon...
So now that we know from his recent blog that George has been writing Blood and Fire together with Winds, should we just acknowledge that Blood and Fire is the next (and possibly the last) ASOIAF book he will complete?
>>23807715I want Euron to ascend to godhood.
>>23813119I hope Targaryens go extinct
>>23813140The Seven will win. Everyone else will lose.
Can somebody explain to me why Dunk decided he's a bastard? It's just came out of nowhere and he kept thinking about it
>>23813162He just wanted to dunk on himself.
>>23813162It's a very reasonable assumption, and not to be yolked about.
>>23813232>yolkedCARLOS
Should've ASOIAF had elves and fantasy dwarves?
>>23813257Children of the Forest and Ibbenese/Hairy Men
>>23813257No and no, medium anon.
>>23812944Me too anon. I also love to read about the aftermath and consequences of war. Especially I love to travel through war torn countries.
>>23812498Yeah, Jon Snow indeed thought about that. Doing this to the Lannister.
>>23813257There's no point. ASOIAF is a character-driven story, and fantasy elves and dwarves are just extremes, even shallow stereotypes, of character anyway.
Okay let's say I somehow teleport ASOIAF world and somehow keep my knowledge of the events that happened in the book. And I teleport to the winterfell and I went talk to Ned somehow and made a deal basically saying>tell jon snow the truth>you shall not execute the first escape from the wall and instead listen to him>you shall tell the truth to your wife about jon snow>sansa shall not marry the king son. and instead be married of to someone she wish to marry>Arya shall be treated the same as a male stark and be taught in the way of combat and skills she wishes to learn>she shall not be wed and upon reaching the age of 18, she shall be asked to wed me if she wished to.to prove that im "magical" being I would confess to him that jon snow mother is Lynna stark, robert children are bastard, littlefinger and his sister wife murdered jon arryn. The three eyed raven is in fact Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers lusting for Bran. This happens literally before the event of the books, let's say 2 days. I will make him swear a oath to keep the deal.Will he be willing to do it? Also I get a house with a couple of servants that basically cleans shit and make me 2 meals a day.
Is the anon that reads ASOIAF one character at a time still here? He had a list of what order he was reading each POV and wa scurious about. If that anon is here or somebody has that list, I'd appreciate it
>>23813948That's pretty good. I'd take the books with me and have every single event in my knowledge, amass riches as a fortune teller and then retire quietly to Highgarden where I will bang Margaery Tyrell until the end of my days.
>>23813119Probably. Though, if we were to have gotten some other ASOIAF side-book I would've rather had Dunk & Egg.
>Watch House of the Dragon>Enjoy it and decide to read the Dance of the Dragons part of Fire and Blood>It’s alright >Decide to read the beginning about Aegon the Conquerer and his sons>Wait a second… I’ve seen these characters before somewhere>Maegor is the exact same character as Daemon and Aenys is the exact same as ViserysIs George R. R. Martin overrated or is it just Fire and Blood that’s bad?
>>23814000Like a not-so-wise man once said: history doesn't repeat; it's like poetry, it rhymes.
>>23814000>>23814083Isn't this sort of repetition like his thing?Like..... events in the setting's history and side plots rhyme with the main plot to and give clues.
>>23813948>>23814000i hate showniggers so much it's unreal
>>23814153*slaps your face with my ASOIAF bookshelf, then slaps you with my hand*
>>23814101Yeah, repeating history is a major theme. These things have happened before and could be dealt with if history was recorded correctly in Westeros or just whether or not anybody actually cares to read it. Or oral history, traditions and myths that have been distorted over the ages. There is also a theme of repeating "characters" or people. But that could also have connections to errant souls or upbringing.
is it true the show ending is based on the books?sansa becoming queen,jon snow going back to the north like a cuckarya becoming batman and going west to diebran becoming demi-god king
>>23814228What's bad about any of that? It's actually a pretty good bittersweet ending. The problem is that the show could deliver a satisfying progress towards that ending, we got a great ending but the development to reach that was terrible. The books will probably do a much better job in that regard.
>>23814259kys grrm
>>23814273Go back to reading your children's book with no character depth, tolkienfag
>>23814286at least tolkien finished his book, you fat boi lover. how does it feel that the show will be the legacy of asoiaf ? fat boy!
>>23814228>is it true the show ending is based on the books?Only in a very loose way.>Yes, some of the things you saw on HBO in GAME OF THRONES you will also see in THE WINDS OF WINTER (though maybe not in quite the same ways)… but much of the rest will be quite different.>And the ending? You will need to wait until I get there. Some things will be the same. A lot will not.>Poor George, I feel very sorry for him. What happened is that his show caught up with him, and he then met with the showrunners and he told them what he was planning to do in that book, so that they could then write accordingly. Only they didn’t write accordingly, they took his stuff, and distorted it and wrote their own ending, which wasn’t at all what he had in mind but used all the elements that he told them.
faceless men are the most boring shit in the book.
Jon is Azor Ahai, right? There's no way he can't be after all the hints.
>>23814336Azor Ahai probably isn't real. Jon is the Night's King
>>23814336Prophecy will bite your cock off, anon. Don't trust it.
>>23814364>>23814372If Azor Ahai doesn't exist then that means everything Rhaegar, Stannis, Melisandre, the Three-Eyed Crow and several other people did was all for absolutely nothing. That would be the most unsatisfying and stupid thing ever, you create a prophecy and a huge part of the world relies on that prophecy and in the end it was actually just a joke bro.
>>23814385Melisandre is clearly a villain who is manipulated Stannis with her hoax prophecies.George Martin is an agnostic, no religious zealot is going to be the good guy, certainly not one who practices human sacrifice
>>23814393Melisandre is bad. Does that mean the prophecy is wrong? What about the several other people who believe in it? What about the entire religion of R'hllor. It just means that the Lord of Light might not be a good guy, but it doesn't mean the prophecy doesn't exist. Also, agnosticism is not atheism, gods clearly exist in the world of asoiaf.
>>23814393Just because a religious cult has adopted the prophecy as part of its dogma does not mean that the prophecy is a religious element.The Ghost of High Heart dreamt about the prince, just like the Targaryens. R'hllorist just think that the prince they see in the fire is the reincarnation of their god's champion but that's just their religious interpretation of the vision, doesn't mean it's true.
>>23814385Melisandre is a fraud who is groping blindly for clues she often misreads. Rhaegar and the 3EC's (whether that's the same as Bloodraven or not) motives are still not fully known.Maybe everyone has misread the signs. Maybe Azor Ahai exists but he's evil (Euron). Maybe everyone who is trying to prevent the apocalypse is actually being manipulated into causing it. Maybe Old Nan was right when she said that crows are all liars.
>>23814404Rhaegar certainly believed in some prophecy that his son would be a prince who would save the world. He was referring to Aegon in the House of the Undying vision, not Jon Snow, so clearly Rhaegar was wrong about that. (Unless Faegon is legit but that's doubtful)I don't know what the evidence of Bloodraven believing in Azor Ahai is. I haven't read Dunk and Egg so I don't know much about him
>>23814428It's an old controversy in the fandom whether Azor Ahai and the Prince That Was Promised are the same. Melisandre and Aemon seem to think so in their one dialogue, but nobody ever mentions exactly what the PTWP prophecy says.
>Jon will be the king beyond the wall>Sansa will be the queen in the north>Bran will be the king of the six kingdoms>Arya will probably unify and become the queen of essosHoly shit, the Stark children will dominate the world after the events of asoiaf.
THIS IS YOUR DAILY REMINDERTHIS IS YOUR DAILY REMINDER TO PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL, HEAT UP YOUR GRRM BRAND QUESO TO VALYRIAN TEMP 135.5THE SHADE OF THE EVENING HAS BEEN DRANK & IT'S TIME TO SLAM YOUR MOON TEA, LOG INTO WEIRWOOD.NET & MARK OFF YOUR CHECKLISTTO POP YOUR-JOJEN PASTE-MOON TEA-MILK OF THE POPPY-BRAVOSI LEMONShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoHSLwOmNS8 <- HIT PLAY NIGGA>YOUR GAME OF THRONES THEME SONG ALARM BLASTS THROUGH YOUR HOUSE>YOU INSTINCTIVELY JUMP INTO YOUR BACKYARD TRAINING YARD, FITTED WITH BATTLE-ROPES & A "FIGHTING PIT" STYLE DOTHRAKI ACTION COURSE>AFTER YOUR INTENSE WORKOUT YOU CALL OVER ELIO & LINDA USING GOOGLE HANGOUTS BEFORE GETTING INTO YOUR ISOLATION/SOCIAL DEPRIVATION FORUM (/got/) & PACKING YOUR MOUTH TO THE BRIM WITH LEMONCAKES FOLLOWED SHORTLY AFTERWARDS BY IRON ISLAND SALTWATER ENEMAS JUST AS THE SOURLEAF KICKS IN AS YOU LISTEN TO YOLKBOY & LADY GUINVERE HYPOTHESIZE THAT THE CHILDREN OF THE FOREST=ALIENS & THE SWORD OF THE MORNING IS HIDDEN IN MEEREENDUDE JEYNE POOL = GENE POOL LMAODUDE ANCIENT CAVERNS LITERALLY ENCRUSTED WITH NUCLEAR FALLOUT & COVERED IN WILDFIRE & TAKING PLACE IN GRRM'S SCI-FI UNIVERSE ASIMOV STYLE>"ASHAYA FROM HISTORY WESTEROS PODCAST JUST END IT ALL! I THINK YOU'RE A WORTHLESS YOUTUBER & I HATE YOU, BUT COME BACK ON /R/ASOIAF SO I CAN BLOW YOU THE FUCK WHEN YOU BITCH ABOUT ME USING FAN ART IN MY VIDS & REDUCE YOU TO TEARS">"ASHAYA "SNITCHES GET STICHES" "JUST" TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT! YOUR YOUTUBE CAREER IS OVER. AZIZ & SEAN BARELY HAD YOU ON THE PODCAST THIS YEAR BECAUSE YOU'RE A TOXIC CUNT WHO STARTS SHIT WITH MORE POPULAR YOUTUBERS LIKE ME. IT'S TIME FOR THE VALYRIAN STEEL DAGGER RETIREMENT PLAN"-Preston Jacobs, 2015>YOU ARE NOW PICTURING PRESTON JACOBS NAKED IN A WEIRWOOD TREE WITH A MOUTH FULL OF WEIRWOOD PASTE TRIPPING- Brought to you by The Dornish Brotherhood Without Banners©"GILBERT KING!"
>>23814452Only retards don't get that R'hllorist believes that the prince = Azor Ahai Reborn.Aemon and Marwyn mentioned the prophecy, born amidst salt and smoke to wake up dragons from stone, same shit that Melisandre says. Melisandre also calls Stannis "the prince that was promised".In interview, when asked about the "Azor Ahai prophecy", Martin answer by using "prince that was promised" since it's the original wording of the prophecy.
Reddit sure makes their Targaryen OCs hot.This is supposed to be a Targaryen / Bolton offspring.
>>23814486And it’s male.
>>23814486Does xe skin you before xe burns you alive? Or does xe like the skin nice and crispy?
How likely is it that Martin is writing The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring at the same time and that's why it's taking so long to finish? 13 years should be enough to finish a story.
>>238144970 % likelihood. What may happen is that he'll eventually accept the fact that the series can't be wrapped up in two books and will split the behemoth he's now working on into two books, meaning that when Winds releases we'll still be two books away from the ending
>>23814572That doesn't make sense. Winds will probably end with the Battle of the Bastards and Jon becoming King in the North and Daenerys going to Dragonstone. Which will leave the Battle of Winterfell and the Burning of King's Landing to the final book. Two books are enough to cover everything with ease.
>>23814497Negative likelihood. He’d like nothing more than to get the “where winds?” fans off his back so he can go back to his loreslop books and HBO spin-offs, and releasing Winds would give him some temporary respite.If he had anything close to serviceable for Winds, he’d have published it already so that those fans would leave him alone and he wouldn’t have to answer the same “where is Winds?” question when he’s on a panel or being interviewed.
>>23814598Sweet summer child
>>23814600>mfw Gabe Newell gets to stop answering "Where's Half-Life 3" before Winds comes out
>>23814600There are more than one thousand pages of Winds written according to the man himself and people close to him, it's probably close to finishing, he probably just tying some loose ends and sideplots here and there or writing the ending to set things up for the last book.
>>23814628You're so naive I bet you give people your spare change when they tell you they need money for the bus
>>23814628HahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahDid you finish ADwD yesterday? You’ll soon learn that this man is nothing but talk and bluster.
>>23814646>>23814664>he hasn't written anything, look at me I'm so cynical and disillusionedWhen Winds comes out, I will come to your house and smash your window with my copy.
>>23814674Where in my post did I say he hasn't written anything? You're being riduclously hyperbolic just to create an argument. I legitimately believe George is working on it. But he's in a corner, with the rest of the floor made of lava, down a hole so deep the sun doesn't reach it, broken into the floor of another room where he'd painted himself into a corner and dug a hole to escape
>>23814646>>23814664Do you have any evidence to support any of those claims or are you just pissed that he hasn't released anything in years and therefore think he's some kind of liar? He never promised on a date, it's very clear a lot of the book is already done.
>>23814683Where did I call him a liar? You're the one saying he's almost done, not George. George has made no such claims. His most recent update on this is from September 9th, when he said >Writing came hard, and though I did produce some new pages on both THE WINDS OF WINTER (yes) and BLOOD & FIRE (the sequel to FIRE & BLOOD, the second part of my Targaryen history), I would have liked to turn out a lot more. A lot more. Why would he have wanted to turn out "a lot more" if he's almost done? Why would he need "a lot more"?
>>23814699Whoever you are of the two posts I quoted, both indirectly claim he's a liar. The only fact is that he has written more than 1100 pages, if you think he's not almost done with it you're deluded:https://www.ign.com/articles/george-rr-martin-has-written-1100-pages-of-the-winds-of-winter-the-same-number-as-last-year
>>23814720>1100 pages in 2023>the headline literally says it's the same number as last year, i.e. in 2022So he wrote nothing between 2022 and 2023, and you think this is proof he's finished? Come the fuck on.
>>23814739I said almost. Ok, then let me ask something else, how many pages do you think the book will have?
>>23814749I have no idea. But it's more than 1100 since he reached that two years ago.
>>23814749>>23814755He said he was "three quarters of the way through" in 2022 around the same time he gave that page number for the first time.
>>23814755ADWD according to a quick Google search, was 1056 pages. It could be nearing completion. I suppose we don't know how many of those pages are final and whether or not any revision has been done up until this point. I'd like to think even if he hasn't been writing anything new, he has at the very least been revising what is there.
Is magic real in asoiaf or is it all lost and forgotten science?
>>23814336There's no way Dany isn't AA.
>>23814825>lost and forgotten scienceThat’s magic. Or, more accurately, occult “science” science. Qyburn and Marwyn are no different from mad scientists.
>>23814825Magic was mostly lost until Dany's dragons were born, then it started coming back because we're playing by Spyro 3 rules
>>23814825Why do people think magic is separate from science when the “separator” is just a matter of nuance and mystery? That of wonder? Horror? It’s just “I don’t know”.A medieval sorcerer is no different from a bat shit insane biologist who is currently in the process of creating man made horrors beyond your comprehension.This is why hard magic systems suck, as they are *known* and *understood* and taken for granted. Where’s the mystery? Where’s the wonder and horror?>>23814844It blows my mind that people think there is no dark arts side to science. Are they totally unfamiliar with the Germans and the Japanese in WW2?
>>23814720>wrote nothing in 2023>wrote nothing in 2024 so far>probably wrote nothing between 2011-2013 and 2016-2020>”if you think he’s not almost done with it you’re deluded”I’m sticking to my guns on this one.
>>23814870why do you autists need to start this exact same arguement in every single thread...
>>23812498>Lord Snow sends his regards
>>23814986Because I’m fucking tired of retarded questions like “do gods exist in asoiaf?” or “doesn’t magic defy physics?” or “isn’t Melisandre a phony?” without thinking a step or two ahead to save themselves the fucking embarrassment.I have a fucking BLAST telling retarded zoomers that magic doesn’t actually exist in Tolkien’s middle earth (the elves don’t believe in elf magic and look to the Maia the same way humans look to the elves). They become so fucking butthurt or just ass blasted because they just can’t grasp basic fucking logic. They don’t even know what magic is. Tolkien knew fantasy was a product of the mind’s eye.It’s like 99.99% of the asoiaf fanbase, too.I don’t do this to feel superior, I’m just an individual blown away by how… dumb… a lot of people are today. The fantasists of today would make people like Tolkien scream and want to be put back in the fucking ground. You can tell George is starting to feel it too. I bet a part of him wishes he were dead, than having to deal with retarded fans that can’t even read his books the proper way.
>>23815017You should probably take a break, you're getting way too worked up over books about magical dragons
>>23815033It’s not about the fiction, it’s about how humans think. It’s 100% psychology. It’s not hard to understand, it’s just very easy to MISS. A lot of the questions people ask wouldn’t be asked had they just sat with themselves for a moment. But they don’t.People can’t think interchangeably. They don’t consider the psychologies or perceptions of others. This is why morons think magic can be some specific thing, when in reality in can’t even exist in fiction. ** Retards that say “um it’s fiction I can do whatever I want” also don’t realize that even fiction has limits, and it’s technically impossible to, say, create a fiction without math. It cannot be done.
>>23815017>>23815043meds asap
>>23815051Are you telling me you aren’t concerned about the massive number of retards who flock to not!prophets like Preston? David? Fuck off. The ability to think critically is an actual problem today. Had the media said “okay the Nazis are the good guys now”, the masses would probably struggle with not agreeing with their screen overlords.Remember, the eclipse is due to climate change… according to the left… which is the majority of asoiaf enjoyers, lmfao.
Who has the biggest teats in the books after Illyrio
>>23815058This issue is prevalent in the Dark Souls community as well. No one knows how to think for themselves.
>>23815058(you)>>23815064probably Genna Lannister
>>23815064GRRM's famous self-insert, the Yellow Whale
>>23815069Fuck, forgot about him. So after him and Illyrio, unless there's someone between the two
>>23815081A random sex slave that Victarion sacrifices.>For himself, Victarion claimed the seven choicest girls. One had red-gold hair and freckles on her teats. One shaved herself all over. One was brown-haired and brown-eyed, shy as a mouse. One had the biggest breasts he had ever seen. The fifth was a little thing, with straight black hair and golden skin. Her eyes were the color of amber. The sixth was white as milk, with golden rings through her nipples and her nether lips, the seventh black as a squid's ink.
>>23815105This is just coom material, George.
More /tv/ than /lit/ but, lots of high resolution images from the show that anons here may be interested in. https://farfarawaysite.com/section/got/gallery.htm
>>23814835Dany is the obvious one that turns out to not be it. Jon is the actual one, but it turns out Azor Ahai will not be what people think it is. There's also the chance that GRRM will change the story, due to people having figured his shit out already. It's a common problem among writers.
>>23815210What if its more than one person. Like it is some sort of magic that requires a massive sacrifice of people
>>23815171nice try fbiif you think i wouldnt notice youre sadly fucking mistaken 3 in a row? come the fuck on
>>23815262The FBI controls that site?
>>23815262What am I missing?
>https://youtu.be/Nwa6xgIZCv8?si=eJYIZFg6R7U1Fo0cHeheAnd to think we thought we had it bad in 2017
>>23815105I wonder which one has the bigger tits. On the one hand Victarion has more life experience than Jon and has probably seen more boobs. On the other hand, Russian and Scandinavian women have bigger breasts on average than anyone else and since art imitates life maybe women in the north of planetos are also the biggest. This is truly a conundrum.
>>23815832>tfw a man who swore an oath of celibacy still got laid before I didIt's not even funny anymore...
>>23815832 >The Flint girl was fourteen and flat-chested as a boy, though she did not lack for milkOkay so the reason George doesn’t put out books anymore is because he realizes he can’t just publish his fetish material in this environment anymore, right?
>>23814598>Two books are enough to cover everything with ease.LolLmao even
I had no idea it was originally supposed to be a trilogy. What the fuck is wrong with this guy? Why is he like this?
I liked it the fight between Ned and Jaime in the show. Jaime personally killing Jory as well.
>>23816127He thought it would be a trilogy back when he was planning a Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle and King Jaime and Catelyn dying north of the wall and other bizarre shit.
>>23815017magic science retard is at it again
>>23816211oh wow, that's sounds afwulI'd rather keep those 3 good books + 2 alright books rather than that finished but afwul trilogy
>>23808319Because the author is obsessed with redheads
Is Aenys pronounced like "Anus"?
>>23816391no it's pronounced like "Paynees", but without "P"
>>23807836>Jaime Lannister sends his regardsto>The Lannisters send their regards
>>23808480AFFC
>>23811311Pretty accesibile t.esl
Which houses are loyal to the Boltons over the Starks? I want to understand definitively how true the notion of the North being loyal to House Stark really is. All I know right now are Dustin and Karstark.
>>23816501Technically none. Barbrey has her own agenda and some Karstarks like Alys are still loyal to the Starks.
>>23816501Only Dustin, they lose the Karstark's in tWoW.
>>23816501According to Mel, these are the forces that were at Barrowton with Roose:>The red priestess slid closer to the king. "I saw a town with wooden walls and wooden streets, filled with men. Banners flew above its walls: a moose, a battle-axe, three pine trees, longaxes crossed beneath a crown, a horse's head with fiery eyes.">"Hornwood, Cerwyn, Tallhart, Ryswell, and Dustin," supplied Ser Clayton Suggs. "Traitors, all. Lapdogs of the Lannisters.">"The Ryswells and Dustins are tied to House Bolton by marriage," Jon informed him. "These others have lost their lords in the fighting. I do not know who leads them now. Crowfood is no lapdog, though. Your Grace would do well to accept his terms."
>>23815051>>23815068He’s not wrong. Now more than ever is it apparent, the true colours of people like Preston Jacobs.Imagine thinking you know better than the Fat Man himself. This is why arrogant YouTubers are fucked.
>>23817096meds
Shalom, George! I bet your feminist wives were very proud of you when you wrote this.
>>23815067True, everyone seems to worship the idea that extinguishing the flame is the "good" ending.I said that both ending are shit, but keeping the flame is arguably better since you grant humanity another 6 to 10 thousand years until it's all gonna break apart again and some of the characters(like Solaire can live normaly again without going hollow). Massess of rabbid people expressed big disconcern with this thought, their main reasoning - VaatiVidya said the dark age is good for humanity, because Gods hated it, therefore humans are going to gain something out of it....sorry for off topic
Just finished Dunk and Egg. Going from Renly, Xaro, and Jon Connington, to Daemon II is quite the zesty jump. Luckily Dunk grew up in Flea Bottom and learned how to defend his postern gate.
>>23817170Kek. I am convinced: GRRM has a castration fetish.
The books will be finished! Finished, I say, and may the doubters choke upon their fables!
>>23816261Jamie was going to go full mad king and genocide everyone he could. His line to Cersei>If he talks I'll kill him, and him everyone else until you and I are the only people left in this worldwasn't sweet nothing but foreshadowing.Gardening style has really saved the series I can see why Goerge doesnt leave it despite taking years to write books.Victarion was meant to die in Dance after one of 2 chapters, but now his hand is healed by a fire mage and hes got more chapters now hes in Winds and going to met Dany
>>23817356Honeslty I'm more interested in Victarion's crazy voyage than anyone else
>>23817356yeah, Jamie wouldn't even have a pov chapters, Tyrion is the only Lannister we'd have
>>23813986Answer me, faggots
>>23817371check archives you dunce
>>23816047Most of that will get solved at the start of Winds and a lot of just dumb bloat to make the list longerthat can be solved in half a sentence or are just logical shit where is X character now?????>Is dark sister in Bloodravens caveyeah he was its last weilder and it wasnt seen after he used it, Meera will find it/be given it>>23814497100% hes writing bits and pieces of several things at once, could be writing 3 books at the same time to go back 2 whole books to change things. You need to when they're as complex as his is. He probably realised his side projects llike dunk and egg/world book are kinda spoiling the ending so he held off on them. Fire and blood part 2 being written is a good sign hes passed the spoiler parts of those books in his work even if they're not published
>>23817360I loved his character the moment we meet him>Fights in full plate because drowing at sea is a bleesing in his faith>Kraken helm>"I am ironborn, priest. I laugh at pain.>The iron captain was not seen again that day, but as the hours passed the crew of his Iron Victory reported hearing the sound of wild laughter coming from the captain's cabin, laughter deep and dark and madMy first read through I liked him the most because he was the one character I knew knew less than me about the world.
>>23814336Azor Azhai is at the end of a millenia-long telephone game. I hope it's not just the chosen one trope played straight.
>>23817379>le look up months worth of archives, you silly goose!You're gay and you know it
>>23817385oh no...no not Meera, please George, can you not?
>>23817413it was 3 or 4 threadsanyways, I'm not doing it for you, so you have to wait
>>23817385>grrm>solving anything
>>23816443I like it.
>>23817368Wish Tywin had some pov chapters
>>23817471ehh...I'm not. Him, Baelish and Varis are the three characters that should not get a pov chapter
>>23817478I agree with you on Varys and Littlefinger. With Tywin I have some doubts. Anyway I’m glad that Jaime und Cersei got pov chapters. About time other Lannisters than Tyrion got pov chapters.
>>23817398We meet Victarion during one of Theon chapters back in Clash of Kings, anon.
>>23817486Yeah but like really meet him, see him in action doing what he does best
>>23817484He has interesting relationships with his father and whores, so maybe there's some potential. It would be pretty funny listening him rambling about >those fucking whoresand then sneaking up the stairs to his special room at brothel with a slut in his mother jewelry waiting for himor something like that
>>23817493You’re right about that. I too love Victarion’s chapters, especially at sea and when he meets Moqorro. Victarion’s voyage got some creepy shit going on, perhaps because it mostly takes place on the ocean. People getting killed and/or sacrificed.Annoying monkeys und Dothraki Sea
>>23817494Hmmm, no. I mean Tywin during one of his council meetings or dealing with other nobles and his children.
>>23817418Looked up 4 threads ago and didn't find anything. The previous ones are 404'd
>>23817518too bad, thought it was pretty recent
Just check the archive retards https://warosu.org/lit/thread/23519606#p23535632
>>23817518here, dumbo >>23817586
What happened to Tywin? Why is he such a joyless cunt?
>>23817659Seen his house in shambles in turned his mannis mode on
>>23817670*Saw his house dwindling thanks to his pathetic father, who made Lannisters a laughing stock even between his own servants, so he turned his mannis mode on and became harsh
Tywin Lannister
>>23817659Do you have trouble reading?
I miss Tywin :(
https://youtu.be/rBcW_1kVa4cHonestly? This scene was fucking great, I hope it’s in the books. Just four bros and one brodette ruling the world together. Comfy!
>>23817757
>>23816211The Jon/Arya thing will still happen, there were little hints of it in the first book and they clearly love each other.
>When he had donned his glove again, Jon Snow turned abruptly and walked to the low, icy northern parapet. Beyond him the Wall fell away sharply; beyond him there was only the darkness and the wild. Tyrion followed him, and side by side they stood upon the edge of the world.
>>23817806In the end it will be Tyrion, Jon and Daenerys there, the three Targaryens controlling the three dragons facing the army of the dead. Kino!
>>23817835This but unironically.
>>23817835Tyrion is the third non targ head of the dragon that George alluded to. It is known.
>>23817806I always liked Jon and Tyrion's relationship in the beginning
>>23817586>>23817588You guys say this as if anyone who's not a retard actually browses the archives. Thanks anyways
>>23817872The two pseudo-Targaryens, Jon and Tyrion, both mimick their non-fathers.
>>23817904glad we could help
Would you suck Tyrion’s cock if one of the gods of Westeros promised you you’d marry Sansa after that and become King in the North?
>>23817948>marry Sansa after that and become King in the North?No.
>>23817948being King in the North sucks, I want the whole deal.Gimme Reach for wine, gimme Westerlands so I can have my gold, gimme Stormlands so I can feast with Baratheons, gimme Crownlands so I can fuck every whore there is, gimme Vale of Arryn so Sweetrobin could meet with moon, gimme Riverlands for house Tully's hottest redheads. For that I would suck Tyrion's cock. The rest you can have yourself, fuck Dorne, Total Ironborn Death
For anyone who's interested, here's pic related of what order that other anon read through each ASOIAF POVs. I'll make it into a easier to read copypasta later
>>23817948>King-Consort in the Northfixed that for you
>>23818003You can't just have everything for free, you would gain the position and the means to achieve all of those things through diplomacy or warfare.
>>23818007??
Allah is the one true God in A Song of Ice and Fire.
>>23818007How does that work? Reading the way he’s reading?
>>23817948Would Tyrion even like that?
>>23818047It's not free anyway, you have to suck Tyrion's cock.
I hope Bran doesn't time travel in the books. Once you add time travel everything quickly becomes retarded
>>23818267Just seeing the past is alright, but interfering with it, or seeing the future can become very messy. I don't think a 75 y.o. George can handle it.
>>23818062>>23818115Sorry, I mentioned it in my other posts and gave no context.So there was an anon a while back that decided to reread ASOIAF one POV at a time. In his particular case, he wanted to read each character arc individually as if he had no idea what the overall grand narrative was and he found it extremely interesting to try and piece the whole story together one POV at a time. He started with Tyrion on the logic that, out of all the other characters, since he's the most well travelled (from Winterfell to the Wall to King's Landing to Essos) and the one that receives a lot of the big story beats he'd be a good introductory character to the story.The reason I found it super interesting was because I did the same thing a few years back but only with Jon, Tyrion and Jaime, and they made for very interesting reads on their own. Just posting this so that anons that were maybe interested on this read through had a reference.
>>23818288You think old people are dumb, brat? The new left really messed up the perspectives of some young people...
>>23818288Gurm already wrote a time travel scifi book and it stars proto-Tyrion. Also when he was talking about his struggles with writing the story at Oxford, he emphasized that one of his greatest struggles is "writing the story arcs centered around magic, especially Bran" so you can bet your ass one of the biggest stumblingblocks of finishing Winds is the fucking time travel knot he's created that makes the Meereenese knot look like a fucking joke
Are there any unofficial versions of Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring out there? Yes, essentially "fanfiction" but with good quality.
>>23818403Closest you'll get to "good" fanfiction is the Preston Jacobs one but it's ongoing and has like 10 or so chapters out, doing like 1 chapter a month. Also keep in mind that PJ is kind of a controversial subject on 4chan for the time being.
>>23818537>on 4chanHe's a controversial subject pretty much everywhere desu.
>>23818537It’s kind of down to 1 chapter every 4 months now, but may pick up again without him doing weekly videos for HotD.
Does the Queen of the Others exist and will Jon marry her?
>>23809058He had basically no problem betraying them. It's only in retrospect that he loves the Starks because he's haunted by his actions
These two men are the only brave ones to say what we all think. Fuck the Dornish, Walder Frey did nothing wrong. And Greg Clegane is a hero https://youtu.be/hhl7AfT1V3k
>>23818718He said he hated them because he wanted to be part of them and he couldn't
>>23818686yes and yes, george's fetish for subverting tropes implies to me he wants to solve the final conflict without a climactic final battle and will probably involve securing peace through diplomacy with some sick twist like starks having the blood of the others in them or some such shit
>>23818763Same could be said for Jon though. Both Jon and Theon envy Robb but only one of them betrays him
>>23818795Yeah, it's sad that the Blackfish and probably a lot of people probably assume that Jon did betray Robb.
>>23818343To make it clear. For example, that anon will read all the Tyrion chapters, after that, he will start with the new character pov and read all chapters before moving on to the next one right?
Gregor Clegane had time of his life during the War of the Five Kings.
>>23818786Seems more likely the Starks are interwoven with the CotF. It's hard to know whether or not you exactly require CotF blood to be a Skinchanger/Greenseer.
But for me, it’s house Dondarrion.
>>23818795Yeah, but the dilemma with Jon is better explored than Theon's.we see Jon's desire to be THE Stark, when Stannis offered him Winterfell, and in his dream how he screams he is the real heir of the place, and how much he feels out of place.Theon's chapters don't go that deep about his feelings for his family adoptive or real.
>>23818795> The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. “Theon,” they seemed to whisper, “Theon.” The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. “Please.” He fell to his knees. “A sword, that’s all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek.” Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. “I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands.Seems a bit much to me, especially since George basically confirmed (youtube.com/watch?v=w0AErqOdLZ0) he would be hanged if Balon had rebelled again while Ned was alive. (Not execution via ice, presumably since it wouldn't be Ned who gave the sentence.)
>>23818813Yes
>>23807765>literal CIA glowie>thinks he knows the story better than its own creator>eternally seething at GRRM after attending a dinner and having his second inane question ignored because gurm was literally more interested in the fucking salad dressing than his retarded theories
shizo ramblings or on to something?
>>23819752A good ASOIAF theory makes you feel like a moron for not putting it together yourself even if the clues are both in the open and cryptic. Seems like a really solid theory to me. I always thought it was strange that a few dragon hatchlings somehow brings magic back globally, when magic wasn't more powerful in the dance when there was more of them.Dragons getting the credit for an unknown aspect of the world magic cycle is very george so yeah I'd say they're on to something.Also Dragons in the shadowlands, ice dragons in the shivering sea, Sheepstealer and possibly Cannibal could both still be alive since they're unaccounted for so 3 new hatchinglings aren't exaclty new to the world, just new to Essos and Westeros
>03/14/2025
Does anyone think Daenerys's entire story is very weird?>Dany's memories of her childhood are largely false (lemon tree in Braavos, conflicting descriptions of Ser Willem Darry)>Dany was born to an almost 40 year old mother who repeatedly miscarried>Dany is given her dragon eggs by Illyrio, who is secretly an Aegon supporter and therefore her enemy>Quaithe appears and guides Dany on her journey, seemingly acting as a guardian angel despite being a rather sinister masked shadow sorceress>Euron is confident he can marry Dany despite never having met her and currently living on the opposite side of the world
>>23820001She isn't a Targ, she's a Dayne
>>23819981>mm/dd/yymutt moment. i laugh every time.
>>23820044But why? For what purpose?
>>23820001>LemongateYeah that whole background of hers makes no sense but you can only know that on a 2nd reread at the earliest, very celever to hide a bunch of weird lies early in the first book when no one knowns the world yet and can't see the lies. She could be a Dayne, or just a dragonseed from Dragonstone. For what purpose I'm not sure>Dany is given her dragon eggs by Illyrio, who is secretly an Aegon supporter and therefore her enemyirl I think George didnt think of Faegon yet that foreshadowing is in the 2nd book. But the gifted dragon eggs can just be reclaimed after she is wed to Faegon as planned. It ties into lemongate as the dragoneggs help sell her Valyrian heritage that she might net even have.>Euron is confident he can marry Dany despite never having met her and currently living on the opposite side of the worldI always read that as just his ego, shes what 14, 15? 16 at most and Euron is in his thirties so he thinks he can just seduce and groom her. Failing that he probably thinks he can just skinchanger her like he does his crew and the dusky women to control if all else fails. I think he used a Glass candle to project himself into her dream and made her have a wet dream about her as an early attempt to groom her.
>>23819312Great! I will try that as well.
She wants a man with a magic sword...
>>23820132Interesting! Probably foreshadowing a resurrected and exorcised Jon after he is given the real Lightbringer, Dawn. Thats the only magical no Valyrian sword that we know exists.
>>23820169Jon doesn't have a Nissa Nissa to create Lightbringer with anymore. It's gonna be Dany killing Daario or some dumb Gurm bullshit.
>>23820191I don't think George gave him that dream where a swords burns red in his fist for no reason.
>>23820169Dawn is definitely Lightbringer and it isn't even subtle. The wielder is called the Sword of the Morning, implying he won the Battle for the Dawn (also the sword's name).
>>23820191>>23820235Dragonsteel sword, Lightbringer: magical steel rooted in blood and fire magicValyriansteel sword: magical steel rooted in blood and fire mgicThere won't be a blood sacrifice to make a "Lightbringer", Longclaw was made with a blood sacrifice, like every other VS blades, it's a "Lightbringer", a dragonsteel blade.
>>23820169*Darkstar
>>23820247N+A=J would make more sense for that then.
>>23820235Fire wights have fire blood, that's just how it be.
>>23820309Still don't know how that works when gurm said fire wights don't have blood flowing in their veins
>>23820345I'll enjoy Jon's zombie pov where he never eats, sleeps, or shits.
>>23820088> She could be a Dayne, or just a dragonseed from Dragonstone. For what purpose I'm not sureI think Viserys would recognize that a girl is not his sister.
>>23820425and if she was with him practically all the time ever since the sacking of Kingslanding?Could it be that they they only switched the boy?
>>23820425>Viserys would recognize that a girl is not his sisterAnon go back and read how he treats her and thinks of her. For a Targ prince who would know hes meant to marry his sister he's awfully willing to let Dany be raped by an army of Dothraki and their horses. Almost like hes in one the act that shes a fake targ to be used as a tool via marriage to gain power.
I still don't understand the motive behind Lemongate. Why did they need to fake Dany? Furthermore, why give her dragon eggs?
>>23820592>Anon go back and read how he treats her and thinks of her. Exactly. If he thought she a fake, he would rub it in at every opportunity like a fuckface that he is. >he's awfully willing to let Dany be raped by an army of Dothraki and their horsesNot really, as Illyrio has to convince him (that not being too hard as Viserys is a retard), and even then he tries to claim her maidenhood. >Almost like hes in one the act that shes a fake targ to be used as a tool via marriage to gain power.Nah. He treats Dany exactly the way he thinks a king should treat his wife - meaning the way Aerys treated Rhaella.
so dany is a rape baby?
What if Tyrion wasn’t a dwarf.
>>23820622I think you misunderstand, he does rub it in her face with how he treats her because he needs her and she isnt a real targ and it drives him crazy.>he tries to claim her maidenhoodYeah shes hot and he sees himself as owning her im not surprised he tried to. IF he did try to we get this from Illyrio who we know is lying about supporting her and Viserys, lying about Faegon, lying with the dragon egg gifts, etc. If she is Viserys younger siste ryou need to address all these and more >>23820001
>>23820117Awesome. I would love to try but right now I'm in a GRRM boycott. I kinda wanna reread the series right before Winds drops but I know that's copium. Remember the fun is trying to piece the whole story together little by little.
>>23820657Same as Viserys. It's a major part of what made him such a fuck up - his childhood consisted of observing his dad's spergouts, combined with his mother going >"I-it's alright dear, your father is a g-grea~(sob) great king! He's just tired, and beset by bad and jealous people all around him!"all while he was extremely isolated from any other company. Which served to form his perception of reign of Aerys The Cum of Wildfire, second of his name, as that of an examplar king, all of it's failures stemming exclusively from Aerys' ungrateful and disloyal subjects. And in the total absencfe of other fatherly figures, he set out to emulate Old Papa, in all of his late-period burning glory. Dany was fucking saved by being raised away from her parents.
>>23820666Tywin 2.0 then
>>23820684>Remember the fun is trying to piece the whole story together little by little.Yes, yes indeed.
>>23820670>I think you misunderstand, he does rub it in her faceNope, he doesn't. If it was the case, he would spell it out to her, just to hurt her more. The motherfucker could not keep a secret to save his fucking life, literally. >IF he did try to we get this from Illyrio who we know is lying about supporting her and Viserys, lying about Faegon, lying with the dragon egg gifts, etc.I think people vastly overestimate the extent of Illyrio's plots within plots within plots. I think he doesn't even lie - he just opportunistically keeps his eggs across several baskets and doesn't see the need in informing each basket on details of all other baskets. >If she is Viserys younger siste ryou need to address all these >>23820001Ok>Dany's memories of her childhood are largely false (lemon tree in Braavos, conflicting descriptions of Ser Willem Darry)They are not false, she's misremembering details, as numerous children in the series do. You can now start explaining how the POV Bran is a fake Bran, seeing as he doesn't remember observing the Lanncest. >Dany was born to an almost 40 year old mother who repeatedly miscarriedYeah, and she died in labor - as one could expect. She gave birth to Viserys eight years prior, so we know she's not infertile. >Dany is given her dragon eggs by Illyrio, who is secretly an Aegon supporter and therefore her enemyIllyrio is not an Aegon supporter, he's an opportunist. He also, along with the rest of the world, doesn't believe that dragon eggs are anything more than pretty stones. >Quaithe appears and......spouts some cryptic nonsense. >Euron is confident he can marry DanyEuron is a massive douche who lives and dies by his overblown confidence, yes. Consider the way he deals with any other setbacks - he acts like he can acheive a thing with minimal effort to impress his peers, and if he fails to do that, he simply acts like he never really wanted to achieve that and it's really irrelevant and everyone else are idiots for not realizing his Master Plan, which totally involved trying and failing to do the thing. >and someI can't address what I cannot see.
>>23820670>>23820622Maybe he is just crazy?She says that his brother had his sweet momments and he talked about the Seven Kingdoms as their home. She also remembers how he had to sell his belonging and his crown. And how that made him mad. All of it is really weird. Because if Viserys was being used, it doesn't make sense he had to sell his crown and if he gave the crown on his own volition, he wouldn't go mad for i.
>>23820717>Illyrio is not an Aegon supporter, he's an opportunistI disagree with you here anon Illyrio is an Aegon supporter. Theres some pretty clear clues he is Faegons real father and Faegon is a blackfyre not a targ. Hes an opportunist for sure but he will never be an opportunist at the cost of Aegon and his interests, out of love for his son.
>made the brown nation full of faggots, coomers, and feministsWhat did he mean by this?
>>23820781This, you can tell from how he talks about Young Griff.>“There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it.” Illyrio sounded oddly sad. “I thought I might continue on to Ghoyan Drohe with you. A farewell feast before you start downriver …”>“Good fortune,” Illyrio called after them. “Tell the boy I am sorry that I will not be with him for his wedding. I will rejoin you in Westeros. That I swear, by my sweet Serra’s hands.”He does not talk this way to or about Dany.
>>23820666>Tyrion isn't a dwarf but Joanna still dies in childbirthHe's Tywin-lite, not really obsessed with whores, but Tywin will still have a reason to hate him>Tyrion is still a dwarf, but Joanna survives childbirthHe's Tywinlet. Tywin fears letting him inherit over extra sons given that Joanna is still alive, but now Tyrion has to actually consider kinslaying to secure his birthright and is more evil.
>>23820823>the ghiscari are so evil, they eat dogsGEORGE NO->also they make the unsullied slave boys raise a puppy and kill it
>>23820717this guy gets it
>>23820832this is the most telling line;>"I told you, my little friend, not all that a man does is done for gain. Believe as you wish, but even fat old fools like me have friends, and debts of affection to repay.">debts of affectionit's his son 100%
>>23820731Viserys sold the crown during the period between the beginning of their exile and Illyrio sheltering him and Dany at Pentos.The emotional importance of the crown was it being one of the last things connecting him to his mother, her being literally the only person who was ever nice to him, personalizing everything good left in him - so parting with it made him much more abrasive and cynical.
>>23820832Anon if he cared he would come with them all the way.
>>23820884If he was, he would raise him to inherit the wealth of Pentos, maybe make him into a Prince, not send him on a fucking suicide mission.
What do you predict will happen with Torrhen's Square, the last Ironborn holding in the North?And did Victarion really abandon Moat Cailin?
>>23820897the blackfyre rebellions have always been suicide missions
>>23820921Why would the Band of Nine back Maelys the Monstrous if he was not the only remaining Blackfyre?
>>23820942males > femalesyoung griff is from the female line
>>23820955I don't think anyone of the Band would particularly care about legitimacy of succession according to by now thrice overturned Westerosi law, and they would probably prefer a claimant who is not a hideously deformed and clinically insane monstrocity. Plus they could call dibs on Serra's puss and use the first male child as the (infinitely controllable) claimant.
>>23820918Asha will take their forces after joining with Mannis and yes, TrickyVic did abandon Moat Cailin.
>>23820889How, by rolling? He would be nothing but a hindrance. He's too used to his comforts to keep up with a secret quest or a military campaign.
>>23820970you are underestimating the value of a ruler you can fight behind and how much that boosts moralewomen and children are the bane of every house, plus the guy was dubbed the monstrous, not exactly the type of personality that would meekly stand by as his right was stolen
>>23820970>young griff is from the female lineImplying that Serra is Valyrian, which is unlikely given that Valyrians are immune to the grey plague.
>>23820889He sets plans into motion while chillin out in his manse waiting for them to play out. It's kinda his thing.
>>23820997One of Jaehaerys kids died to it.
The longer we go without Winds, the more I want to think R+L = D+JI think it goes well with Gurm's view of prophecy. Rhaegar has his head so deep up his own ass with prophecy that he starts a war to cheat on his wife so he can get his magical 'third head' of the dragon birthed once Elia stops being able to bear children. The greatest irony, and the fact that George is totally obsessed with twins, is that Lyanna births twins, giving him "four heads to the dragon" and completely messing up what he was going for, subverting prophecy like what he says in >>23814543
>>23821023That was Shivers, not grey plague.
>>23821030Ah, yes, them twins with insanely different appearances - one tall boy with 100% Stark features and one girl with 0% Stark features, separated at birth, with Ned deciding to keep one child close and abandon another one to Seven know what fate in Essos.
>>23821057>Maegelle nursed children afflicted with greyscale, but became afflicted with greyscale herself and died in 96 AC.[3]https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maegelle_Targaryen
>>23821071Ah, ok.
>>23820918He'll support Theon the Latecomer's claim to the Iron Islands and kill some of Euron's lackeys for him. He was the only person in ACOK who was remotely kind to Theon, apart from Luwin.
the wall is made of sleeping ice dragonsthe horn that wakes the sleepers = horn of winter = wakes up the ice dragons
>>23820897Being a Prince of Pentos tends to end in assassination.
>>23821226Big if true.
>>23821226I subscribe to the Weirwood theory personally. That the wall is actually a line of encased weirwoods. Hence why there is a weirwood at the bottom of the well of the Nightfort. Magic is rooted in nature, the children were capable of water magic why not ice?
>>23820897Pentoshi princes get ritually sacrificed. Has a magister he is already about as high as he can safely be in Pentos. If Serra was a blackfyre, their son could hope to a much, much higher station.
I was rereading one of Victarion's chapters, "the Reaver" and he mentioned that Euron had many bastard children. Do we ever learn anything more of Euron's bastards?
Is the upcoming election in Volantis gonna be relevant? I guess the expectation is that the tigers win for the first time in 300 years and go against Dany, so the actual payoff will probably be the tigers win and instead decide to support her and help her invade Westeros
>>23821457Not really. He might be going to sacrifice them for king's blood.
would be pretty funny if Benjen just reappears at Castle Black in the first wall chapter in Winds and stumbles his way into a Lord Commandership
>KILL ALL DORNISHMEN>EXTERMINATE EVERY SINGLE VALYRIAN ABOMINATION>GENOCIDE ALL IRONNIGGERSTOTAL ANDAL SUPREMACYONE THOUSAND YEAR OLDTOWN REICHHEIL HIGHTOWERHEIL HIGHTOWERHEIL HIGHTOWER
>>23819899>>23819752>all the volcanoes, the "stone dragons," everywhere, are restless. Waiting to be woken.Melissandre says he can wake up one "stone dragon" if she sacrifices someone with royal blood.If stone dragons are volcanoes, and volcanoes can be activated with magic, then maybe the magic sword, is actually not a sword but some volcanic activity that killed the Others or made some barrier for them.Maybe the Horn of Winter is actually to make volcanoes to erupt (Waking up the giants) and melt the Wall. Winterfell is over some sort of volcanic activity after all.
>>23821469Theory: Ghiscari are crushed and the Old Blood quickly decides they love Valyrian racial supremacy over slavery.
>>23821870>>23821870>>23821870new
