Σειρήνων edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>23906575>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
first! Upvote!
Why don't you have a dove fountain mosaic in your home, you piece of shit?
>>23935866γραφή; περιστερά τις ὑπερφυῶς πραεῖα εἰώθει ποτὲ φοιτᾶν παρὰ τῇ οἰκίᾳ μου τροφὴν ἐρευνῶσα· αἱ μὲν ἄλλαι τὸ εἰωθὸς ἀναπέτονται ὁτιοῦν φοβούμεναι ἄλλως τε καὶ τοὺς ἀνθρώπους· ἡ δὲ σκιρτῶσα ἐγγὺς γενομένη τὰ σπέρματ' ἐβίβρωσκενοὐχὶ 'γῷδα ποῖ ἀπελήλυθνε, οὐκέτι πάμπαν εἶδον αὖθις
>>23935653Wrote a poem in Latin, enjoy:Magnos oculos dedere flammas;cotidie ludos map;Magna imperia parabat;Ignibus vestalibus in pectore uruntur;Lude universim europaeum, et corda ferrea quatuor,Sentire fluunt viresque bella;Disce rationem et consilium, hoc nunc age;Fac Germaniam vincere Europam, fac Hitlerum superbum;Hostes tuos circumde, oppida vince;Fac eos ad te flecto genua et inclina;Imperium in ludo video;Non legunt libros, sunt hilares et claudi;Profecti exercitus tibi omnia necessaria narrant;Occide et vince, fides tua sit;surgite, exsurge hodie;pro magno et valido imperio rogabis.
>>23936743>>23936928You guys are inspiring
>>23936928What's it say?
>>23936928no meter>Magnos oculos dedere flammasno subject, double accusative forms out of ignorance>mapdidn't read any more
>>23936928>Magnos oculos dedere flammas;you mean Magnos Oculi Flammae Dedere?
>>23936951Even Catullus didn't use meter all the time.
hodie ego legi capitulum undecimum in quo sunt partes corporis humani ut caput quod habet oculos nasum aures et os. Quintus autem a summo arbore casus, fractisque membris, non valet sed mortem exspectat in lecto iacens. Aemilia effundit lacrimas, Syra lamentabili voce deplorat, et Iulia fratrem flet semivivum. densa domus Iulii caligine suffocata est nemo enim eum e morte eripere potest.
>>23938095medicus arcessitor Graecus, cavendum autem ne solus adsit puero, praecipue si Quintus adulescentulust
>>23938110recte conicis. si omnis graeculus cinaedus est, et medicus graeculus est, ergo quoque cinaedus est medicus.
I'll just say it: I don't think you're supposed to roll your r's in Greek because you cannot do that sufficiently after a kh consonant. Also rho is literally spelled with an h after the r, implying a solid r (rhoticity).
>>23938258How do you think you're supposed to pronounce it, a tap? And what do you mean by "a kh consonant", /kʰ/ or /x/? What do you mean "a solid r"?
>>23937484He absolutely did.Show where he didn't
>>23935866I would love to make a mosaic if I had the space
pity bump for dead thread
>>23941313everyone's spooked out
Is it true everything in Latin is translated already so I'm wasting my time
>>23941731Depends what you mean. A ton of medieval philosophy isn't. Most important classical stuff is. In my opinion the real benefit of learning Latin is similar to the benefit of learning mathematics, it forces you to learn how to learn and teaches you how flexible and powerful your own brain is. The grammar you learn will also stick with you forever, you'll feel it's presence in every sentence you write for the rest of your life, making you a much better writer. Learning Latin makes every subsequent language you learn 50-75% easier because you instantly see through the contingent forms to the underlying structure, like you had to do to learn Latin.
>>23941739I don't really want to learn any other languages. I'm trying to forget the ones I do know
>>23907129Latin is one thing, but something that is highly noticeable in people who have studied Greek is their tendency to use possessive rather than object pronouns with gerunds.On the whole prescriptivist debate, I stand on the side of usage, and it sits well with me that most people will find it more natural to say "because of them releasing the slaves" instead of "their releasing...", but the former is impossible for people who have internalised constructions like "διὰ τὸ αὐτῶν λῦσαι τοὺς δούλους".
>>23941746then start with the ancients! My english got notably worse after diving deep into Greek and Latin, to the point where friends and family members found me both insufferable and inscrutable. If that is what you seek, then seek no further!
>>23941767Greekoid here, allow me to defend our position. In this and other cases it is more correct to use the possessive pronoun because in that sentence the action itself is understood to be the cause rather than the actor.
>>23941731Stop making flimsy excuses for yourself to quit
>>23939019Catullus 85 :)
>>23942205Epigramtry again
>>23941731you are never going to waste your time with poetry no matter how many times it has been translated into various flavorseven Plautus' comedies just hit differently in the original, especially since the jokes are often based on the language
bumpAnyone fw'in Denniston's particles?
Where can you even find untranslated Latin worksEspecially for more niche material that wouldn't be in a typical undergraduate course. Do I just have to move near a university library and raid their classics and medieval section
>>23943453write a work in latin and wa la, you have an untranslated latin work
>>23943456Whoa....
>>23943453Try the Bibliotheque Nationale de France. Lots of primary sources and you are bound to find obscure untranslated poems and such.The other day, I was looking for a very specific review on my university's online library, got distracted and ended up finding an obscure 17th century Latin work by a German jurist about what we would now call international law on the Czech national library's website. Obviously, never translated.
>>23943453Apparently you have to just buy one and hope they send the right thing. I tried ordering a work of the mathematician Oresme online once and they didn’t even have it so they sent a book on photography.
>>23943453i don't even know where to find physical untranslated aeneid and other big stuff
>>23943456More like an untranslatable Latin work :^)
I have gone two days without practicing my Latin :/I hope I haven't forgotten it all
>>23943453Any department with lots of manuscripts and/or palaeography specializations
where do i find a cute girl that speaks latin or greek
>>23944232trust me, you don't want to>t. life ruined
>>23944245>>t. life ruinedwhat happened?
>>23944232Dating intelligent women with the same hobbies as you is a fast track to hating your life. Find a malleable borderline retard with no opinions
>τσμ περαίνοντος τοῦ Φαίδωνος διάλογον
>>23943777>I have gone two days without practicing my Latin :/
What did Codex Bobiensis mean by this?>[7] Sed ite et dicite discipulis et petro praecedo vos in galileam. Illic me videbitis sicut vobis dixi.But go and tell the disciples and Peter I am going before them to Galilee. There you will see me just as I told you.>[8] Illae autem cum cum exirent a monumento fugerunt tenebat enim illas tremor et pavor propter timore.But as they left the tomb they fled out of fear, for a trembling and a panic seized them.>Omnia autem quaecumque praecepta erant et qui cum puero erant breviter exposueruntStill they briefly explained all his instructions, whatever they were, to the boy and those who were with him.
>>23944232Would one who knows Classical Chinese be acceptable?
>>23944498>I definitely see women as full-fledged human beings and not just objects
>>23945306Nobody does that, least of all women.
>>23945360Speak for yourself.
>>23945404you're a decent human bean?
>>23945404εἰ δέ με δεῖ καὶ γυναικείας τι ἀρετῆς, ὅσαι νῦν ἐν χηρείᾳ ἔσονται, μνησθῆναι, βραχείᾳ παραινέσει ἅπαν σημανῶ. τῆς τε γὰρ ὑπαρχούσης φύσεως μὴ χείροσι γενέσθαι ὑμῖν μεγάλη ἡ δόξα καὶ ἧς ἂν ἐπ᾽ ἐλάχιστον ἀρετῆς πέρι ἢ ψόγου ἐν τοῖς ἄρσεσι κλέος ᾖ.
>>23945406I try.>>23945411...what is your point?
>>23945418Are you retarded?
>>23945430Why is not being talked about by men relevant here?
>>23945434Do you know anything about classical Greek society?
>>23945437I know I wouldn't want to live in it. Women were basically property, not to mention that like half of children died before their 5th birthday because no modern medicine. What's your point?
>>23945411>κλέοςThis is the only word I cared to read. Fugg f*ids.
>>23945467That he wasn't speaking for himself but at least for the greatest civilization in history as well. >Women played no part in Athenian high culture. They could not vote, attend the theatre, or walk in the stoa talking philosophy. But the male orientation of Greek culture was inseparable of its genius. Athens became great not despite but because of its misogyny.
>>23945482>Athens became greatlol
>>23945482Who are you quoting?
>>23945505Demaratos of Basedos.
>>23945306I see them as human beings; some are intelligent and some are dumb. The intelligent ones are a persistent headache. The dumb ones are a joy to be around and spend time with and I love them for that.
>>23945411This is the best reconstruction of typical Attic grammar I've seen. I kneel.
>>23945524What about them is a headache?>>23945543...This is a quote from an actual classical text.
>Idcirco eum cum universis complicibus, fautoribusque suis, judicio Dei omnipotentis Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, et beati Petri principis Apostolorum, et omnium Sanctorum, necnon et mediocritatis nostrae auctoritate, et potestate ligandi et solvendi in coelo et in terra nobis divinitus collata, a pretiosi Corporis et Sanguinis Domini perceptione, et a societate omnium Christianorum separamus, et a liminibus sanctae matris Ecclesiae in coelo et in terra excludimus, et excommunicatum et anathematizatum esse decernimus; et damnatum cum diabolo, et angelis ejus, et omnibus reprobis in ignem aeternum judicamus; donec a diaboli laqueis resipiscat, et ad emendationem, et poenitentiam redeat, et Ecclesiae Dei, quam laesit, satisfaciat, tradentes eum satanae in interitum carnis, ut spiritus ejus salvus fiat in die judicii.Christians certainly have a way with words.
for me itsFelix ille animi, quem non de tramite recto Impia sacrilegae flexit contagio turbae,Non iter erroris tenuit, sessorve cathedrae Pestiferae facilem dedit irrisoribus aurem,Sed vitae rimatur iter melioris, et altaMente Dei leges noctesque diesque revolvit.
>>23945577>What about them is a headache?Think of the most common stereotypes about the behavior of women — prone to irrational judgment, passive aggressive, scheming, etc — and understand that intelligence (observation, memory, pattern recognition) for them is a toolkit to amplify these behaviors and use them to their benefit. You will become their lab rat and they will turn many aspects of your shared life into a game or a test, whether you like it or not.
I've been busy lately and for some reason I took that as meaning I didn't have any time for studying but nope, I managed to read 2 pages today in about 15 minutes and now I feel good about myself and I'm going to read some more later Sometimes you've just go to to do it and that's how you find time
>>23935653Hypothetically, is it possible to learn Greek from a green Loeb volume if one has a book of grammar on the side or is that not enough?
>>23946067forgot to attach pic related
>>23946067Hypothetically yes, realistically noJust start with a textbook like everyone else. It does not matter which one, just start. I will not reply to you again
>>23946080Don't be a dickhead to him . Uncalled for
>>23946163Hypothetically, it is possible to do anything. Realistically, that anon wouldn’t even need to ask that question here if he had the know how, drive and interest to learn Greek that way.
>>23946163This. We need to shed the dead weight around here.
>>23946163
>>23945231>[8] Illae autem cum cum exirent a monumento fugerunt tenebat enim illas tremor et pavor propter timore.what's going on with the double cooms here?
>>23946589Probably just a dittography, no?
>>23945231>dicite + indicativebaka late latin niggas
>>23946071kek, Plutarch would be even a fairly atrocious choice considering his lexicon is at times relatively challenging
>>23947804No it's not
>>23946067I mean it could sort of theoretically be done depending on the grammar. It would have to be one with very good and clear paradigms of all the forms, which you'd have to study at least a little beforehand. And you would have to study the grammar a lot beforehand, to have even basic comprehension of basic sentences (and most sentences are far from basic). At this point you're basically describing a textbook, since it's just a grammar book with the most important material introduced piecemeal, and with readings custom-tailored to the level you should be at in each chapter. However I do think the method you're trying for works for some people, if done right. How much grammar do you know already - do you understand what tenses, moods, voices, etc. are, can you easily follow along while learning the uses of the genitive and optative, and the rules for forming conditionals and purpose/result clauses and so forth? If so, you might be able to use the Dowling method to brute force a luo paradigm (to start): https://classics.uchicago.edu/people/helma-dik/nifty-greek-handoutsand just enough grammar to start parallel-reading a much easier text than Plutarch. Plutarch is intermediate to advanced I'd say. I actually think this is a mostly forgotten and badly underappreciated learning method, mostly because the focus today is on standardizing education, and teaching methods would rather err on the side of easy/boring in order to be inclusive, than promote "DIY" / assuming high motivation from the learner and potentially alienate or confound him. But in my opinion the best way to learn Latin OR Greek is to start reading real texts that actually interest you ASAP. There is a bit of finesse required in choosing them, for example you have to ask yourself whether you are so interested in Plutarch or Thucydides that you are willing to tolerate much greater difficulty than, say, Xenophon or even Plato. If you want to use this method I would say consider doing 5-20 chapters of a textbook to get the basics down, but as soon as you feel remotely comfortable, try reading a real text. Use either a parallel text or parallel Greek/English editions on Perseus' Scaife viewer. Of course, if you do this while you're still in chapter 3 of JACT, Athenaze, or Hansen and Quinn, you are maybe going to spot one or two words you THINK are third person singular present active. But like I said, I think the sheer "wow, I can read at least one word in this sentence" experience is underrated as an exercise. Of course, by chapter 10 or 15 or your textbook you are going to get into the territory of recognizing (but still probably having to look up / doublecheck) 30%, maybe even 60% of what you're reading. You'll still get filtered by some nuance and have to check the parallel English. But then you are still learning (including learning what you DON'T know, which is just as crucial), still getting motivation from interacting with real Greek, and still amassing vocab.
>>23947872tldr: Depending on your constitution and autism, try drilling a simple paradigm like luo and learning as much 101 grammar as possible from the textbook (or from a reference grammar if you already know grammar well enough to just see "how Greek does it" - if you already know Latin this could very well be the case), and look at reading the parallel text as your bonus treat / extra assignment every day. I am a major believer that it's better to struggle and suffer through something you care about, so that you don't notice you spent an hour or two tinkering with it and actively learning, than to drag yourself through textbook stories you don't care about. Unfortunately the latter may be necessary just to get you started. My own Greek learning only really took off when I gave myself permission to stop using the textbook and just "cheat" by reading parallel texts for a while. Then I found myself actually WANTING to see how the Greek worked. Getting filtered is fun if you just accept it as part of the process. All exposure is good exposure.
>>23935653Can anyone here read this?
>>23948847Yes, it is far from the worst greek typeface out there. All things considered, apart from a couple letterforms, it is pretty clear
>>23948903what does the first line starting from the theta say? it's from the 15th century
>>23948935nta but something like "θέτιδος κομισάσης ἀχιλλ(εῖ ?) τὰ ὅπλα παρὰ Ἡφαίστου συναγαγών εἰς ἐκκλησίαν το(ὺ ?)ς Ἕλληνας ὁ ἥρως..."something like "Thetis having brought the armor/weapons from Hephestus to Achilles the hero gathering the Hellenes..."
>>23948983Ohh. I don't know why they use minimal to no spacing between words on old manuscripts (I guess to save space). Really throws me off.
>>23949039In the past couple years I got really into palaeography. The manuscript tradition, how works get passed down through the ages, the evolution of handwriting and its eventual development into font is fascinating. It seems hard at first because it is unlike what you are used to but after working through several pages you get the hang of it. The trouble is adjusting to hundreds of hands spread out over a millennium, each with its own abbreviations and stylistic quirks. For one example of a frustrating script see the original chicken scratch - Roman CursiveI can recommend some introductory works if you are interested.
>>23945968I feel like that doesn't describe a lot of the women I know? But I may be biased.
>Minus tibi accuratas a me epistulas mitti quereris. Quis enim accurate loquitur nisi qui vult putide loqui? Qualis sermo meus esset si una desideremus aut ambularemus, inlaboratus et facilis, tales esse epistulas meas volo, quae nihil habent accersitum nec fictumSeneca in his epistles to Lucilius is easier than Cicero. The sentences are a lot smaller. Check him out if you are in intermediate hell.
>Cambridge Ancient Historywhat do we think of them bros?
Is there any reason as to why the "au" in "Augustus" is considered a diphthong, while the "ua" in "Uarius"/"Varius" is not? If the definiton of a diphthong is something like "two vowels next to eachother which build a single syllable", then surely both should count? Is it just because (outside of based Oxford) the u/v distinction is still maintained, so "v" doesn't count as a vowel, and therefore it can't be a part of a diphthong? But then what about the "iu" in "Iulius"?
>>23950010every true diphthong will be what you said, but the reverse is not true, it depends on the language, some letters next to each other don't necessarily make a diphthong, in particular, in your case, it's not the case simply because the U in UA is not a vowel, it's a semiconsonant /w/, and likewise I in IU is the semiconsonant /j/the last case shows you this in action, according to legend, Greek Iulus(I-u-lus) was an ancestor of Julius(Ju-li-us) Caesar. The reason for the different spelling is that in Greek Iu does not make a diphthong nor does Greek has the /j/ sound, whereas in Latin the spelling obscures things but it's the /j/ soundhere as I just said Latin spelling makes things a bit more complex than they should because of how they used vowel symbols to represent semiconsonant sounts, Greek for example in dialects that maintained the Latin /w/ used the digamma symbol
>>23950058One can call it a vowel or a semiconsonant to justify the spelling, but purely phonetically, I really can't hear the difference the symbol "u" makes in "au" in "Augustus" and in "ua" in "Uarius". Both sound like, say, the English "w" in "water" or "now" (is the first "w" in "wow" a semiconsonant, while the last "w" a vowel??).Compare for example the phonetic spellings in wiktionary: /au̯ˈɡus.tus/ and /ˈu̯aː.rus/ (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Augustus#Latin, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/varus#Latin).
This is interestingI'm not sure how good a stripped down intro into sanskrit will be for people who have studied highly inflected indo-european languages though
>>23950058P.S. Apparently it's the difference between falling (au) and rising (ua) diphthongs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphthong#Falling_and_rising), where "in the English and Italian languages, among others, many phoneticians do not consider rising combinations to be diphthongs". So, in short, it's all random and gay.I started to think about this when I checked out the renaissance orthography, with i/j and u/v distinctions, which I liked but which seemed to me to not be consistent. It seems to me that one could get an easy orthography with unique vowel-syllable correspondence by writing "av" and "va" etc. and also by adjusting some weird cases which probably came from Italian phonetics (compare the pronunciation of quo, quam etc. in Italian vs. German).So this would include spellings like "Avgustus", "etjam", "qvoqve" etc. This would also take care of the Iulus-Julius distinction. Incidently, if one the considered v and j as consonants, it would leave only 2 diphthongs: ae and oe. For which, conveniently, we already have the symbols æ and œ (which are probably to be found in a vast majority of Latin documents). So if one defined the set of (orthographic, not phonetic) vowels as (a, e, i, o, u, y, æ, œ), one would have a perfect vowel-syllable correspondence...Anyways, just some random ramblings...
>>23950117well of course the sounds are related, after all the choice to use V to represent both /u/ and /w/ wasn't all arbitrary but certainly they have overlapping articulation, but still, for a native speaker, something "classifying" as diphthong or not is up to their own perceptionI can imagine e.g an Italian with poor english skills sounding off to a native englishman whenever he pronounces the initial w+vowel of many english words trying to simply imitate them using his own /u/ + the vowel
>>23949864what about the content, how's Seneca? he's one of those big names for Roman authors that I almost forget he exists
Just bought pic related. Didn't see it in the mega folder, but heard it was great for autodidacts. Also, thoughts on the ranieri-roberts approach?
>>23951623I think it's perfectly fine followed through, people at best criticize him for putting his name on everything but it's solid
>>23951559>Quam dulce est cupiditates fatigasse ac reliquisse>Nullus mihi per otium dies exit; partem noctium studiis vindico; non vaco somno sed succumbo, et oculos vigilia fatigatos cadentesque in opere detineo.>exercitatione opus est cotidiana et a rebus studium transferendum est ad verba.even in translation of great worth. i plan on reading through the entire thing and then going over my favorites to absorb the idiom as much as possible. on book 4 at the moment.
Can /clg/ recommend me a good bilingual edition of The Canterbury Tales? Boenig seems to be highly praised, but as far as I can tell is only middle-English (with a generous glossary).
>>23951891think I'll give it a go after I finish rereading Phaedo, gotta spend some time with Latin too
>>23948847Moltos esarxomtes edimdom xata meosous That is the first line or relatively close.
>>23952174The Riverside Chaucer is the default edition
>>23951623>thoughts on the ranieri-roberts approach?He can't even read Greek without Steadman type editions lol
>>23951623>ranieri-roberts approach?He himself did not follow said approach>taking Greek advice from someone who cannot read Greek
>>23952174Great books of the western world includes a side by side translation of Chaucer though I believe it isn’t annotated
>>23951623Will add, thanks
>>23952332>>23952334ThisRanieri recently released a video in which he states that he cannot read most Greek texts like he can with Latin because they're just too difficultIt's just a brutal blackpill that the only option is sight translation, you will never read Ancient Greek like you can your native language or TLs
>>23952297if you are a fan of seeing the dialectic at work then you'll also enjoy his letters. he presents his positions, comes up with possible objections, without strawmanning them, and builds his case. he also ends in aporia from time to time and leaves the reader to his own judgement.
>>23952393https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvkvvdKot5UThis is the video btw
>>23952393>they're just too difficultThis is absolute cope. He's making excuses for why his so-called method failed him.Greek is not absurdly difficult once you are reading it, if anything difficulty is front loaded. There are some passages that are infamous, eg Pericles' funeral oration, but generally speaking it is no harder than Latin. How many Greek authors are more difficult to read than Tacitus or Livy?Truth is you will always need a dictionary in both languages, a fact con artists will lie about. That bald faggot wants to sell you on the idea of effortless reading while he studied Latin for years using methods different from those he preaches. Now he tries to learn Greek (using a method he took from someone else and slapped his name onto) and fails and blames it on Greek just being too difficult. Greek is not 'too difficult', he hasn't studied it the way he studied Latin and it shows.>muh brutal blackpillStop falling for conmen and their snake oil. Stop watching youtube for classics information.Hit the books.There is nothing on youtube that will benefit you more than serious study. Go read.
>>23952413Actually fluent reading is far more difficult than sight translationSight translation is a crutch which makes it possible to understand the meaning of texts which are far above your current reading levelIt's an active that's more similar to pen and paper translation than it is to actual readingAlso all Luke provides here is essentially a list of readers which he recommends, he doesn't have much more to add than thatYou'd see that if you saw his Ranieri-Dowling method which is just stealing a method and adding his name to it
>>23952430>stealing a method and adding his name to itwow sounds like a trustworthy guy who should be followed and listened to
>>23952443The dude made a phonetic system called "Lucian" - named it after himself mind you- and freely admits he can't actually pronounce classical Greek. The guy is delusional.
is greek really harder than latin though? doesn't the presence of articles make greek that much clearer, even if the verbal system is much more complex?
Trvmpvs vincit. Trvmpvs presdentiat.
>>23952543It is not, he is just a hack
>>23952174I'm not sure they make bilingual versions. You really don't need it for Chaucer's Middle English. It seems difficult at first but you get into the swing of it pretty quick. Get a glossed version and read through: https://chaucer.fas.harvard.edu/lesson-index
>>23950141pdf?
>>23952876>You really don't need it for Chaucer's Middle EnglishDepends how old anon is. There's a generation of sight readers where pronouncing it phonetically is a brand new skill to them they never learnt before so things like>dyuersite & chaugefrom Caxton would give them no hints from sounding it out because they can't Hence middle English in a classical thread because it might as well be a different dead language to them
>>23950141it follows the same methodology of picrel?
Is there another western ancient or classical language that has much of a corpus aside from Latin and GreekOld English, or celtic languages for example are actually pretty small in what you can read is the impression I get
>>23953793depends how old you're willing to goold french is medieval (1000-1300 AD) but it has an impressive corpus relative to neighbouring languages
>>23953824I'm always willing go go old. As old as can be
Is learning Greek really worth it to read Homer, Plato, Aristotle and the New Testament?
>>23954140That entirely depends on youNo one can answer that for you but yourself
>>23954140I read all those dudes in translation and I’m good. You don’t need to read originals aside from certain parts of the corpus like Cratylus where etymology is the theme. It’s just a meme.
>>23954000If you're into reading shopping lists and receipts, you can learn Assyrian
>>23946067>Hypothetically, is it possible to learn Italian with a volume of Boccaccio and a grammar?maybe.>Should one do so?no.
>>23954140Old testament, the NT was originally Latin. And it's obvious.
>>23954355>NT was originally Latinwhat?
Another year approaching, another failed New Year's resolution that I will learn anglo-saxon
>>23954140Homer obviously yesit doesn't matter that sure, τὸ θρυλούμενον, pretty much all ancient Greek has technically been translated, with poetry you are just not reading the same thing
>>23954140If you are deeply interested in hermeneutics and want to understand what they're actually saying yesImagine when Hume wrote >Belief is the true and proper name of this feeling; and no one is ever at a loss to know the meaning of that term; because every man is every moment conscious of the sentiment represented by it. it was translated into another language as the equivalent of >Strongly feeling about something is the real and appropriate designator of this emotion; and everybody is able to understand the purport of that term; because everybody all the time is aware of the state of emotion portrayed by it. If all that interests you in Plato is stock problems like the Gettier problem, or all that interests you in Aristotle is schematic political philosophy stuff and you're only going to be rereading and commenting on a few classic passages in the Rhetoric and Politics anyway, then maybe you don't care. But if you want to actually understand their inner meaning and inhabit their concepts the way they themselves inhabited them (try to translate Aristotle's hexis without understanding echein) then you need at least moderate Greek knowledge. You don't need to be perfect to be able to read through Aristotle and Plato alongside a parallel English text, you can just vocabmax and learn the first 70-80% of the grammar and do fine, which is like a few months of work max. As for the Bible, it's a very beautiful experience reading it in Greek and I only felt like my mind was communing with Paul's mind when I did. There are very nice interlinear translations you can use for extensive reading. Also Basics of Biblical Greek.
AI ANNOUNCES TOTAL SPARTA VICTORY, AHERTA COMPLETELY BTFO BY EUBOEA-CYCLADES UNIFICATION PLAN
>>23954962...ξυνατθίδες.....
speaking of new year's resolutions, you got yours ready already?I'd set mine to finish reading all of Plato but at the pace I'm going and re-reading all of them its challenging
Qui verbum Dei contempserunt, eis auferetur etiam Verbum hominis
>>23952393What if you learn fluent modern Greek first?
>>23952413>Truth is you will always need a dictionary in both languagesWhy? People learn to read modern languages, including literature, without a dictionary.
>>23954357Do not reply to the troll.
>>23954659Does that include later texts written in classicising forms of Greek?
>>23955968It's not a troll. Have you ever looked at the Greek and Latin?
>>23955990>This one guy asserted it>Therefore it must be true!
>>23955997You didn't even bother to look into him but you're going to discount it. Every idea starts with an initial person discovering it. What a stupid and facile thing to say.
>>23944696>>23936743this sounds like when Mr. Krabs was hearing Spongebob talk like the squeaky boots.
>>23956008Do you have any evidence for it other than one guy's assertion?
>>23956014Why didn't you bother asking where Hardoin's claim comes from? Instead of investigating the argument, you're playing at popularity fallacies.
>>23956116I am not saying that because it's unpopular it must be true. I'm saying if it were true you'd probably have something better to cite than one guy's bare assertion.
>>23956120You didn't bother to even read into the one guy, so why would I bother with a second or a third or a fourth or so on if you didn't bother to eat your veggies first? Obviously you can't have desert.
>>23956122Can you cite anyone else, or any actual evidence beyond assertion?
>>23956123Eat your veggies.>any actual evidence beyond assertionSure: So I was looking through a book on Koine and it made the claim that μη and ου/ουκ/ουχ imply either an expected yes or no answer like the Latin num and nonne. I thought that was strange, because outside of the NT how often does that happen? In fact, I don't recall seeing those usages in Greek inserted into the OT. I opened up my copies of the Didache for study but those are less conversational, being mostly letters and less reenactments. Needless to say this is an apparent Latinism that crept into the NT, even in Greek translations. That's what took me on that course.I think the real reason you're fighting it is because pushing the NT to Latin might also mean pushing the OT to Greek, which it undoubtedly was first written in.
>>23956126Then whither all the e.g. puns on names that only make sense in Hebrew?
>>23956129I think we spoke about this before: The evidence is shockingly unconvincing. No, I don't think the limited vocabulary of reconstructed Hebrew allowed for much diversity of verbiage. No, the acorn looking east at the sun doesn't mean anything because the word acorn sounds like burning-bush or whatever the fuck nonsense you spouted last time.And really- Hebrew itself is mispronounced and misspelled. The Masoretics didn't actually know enough Aramaic to reconstruct it properly. Also, the fact that there are literal Greek names and place names rife in the Levant and in the OT point to more than coincidence.
>>23956133>No, the acorn looking east at the sun doesn't mean anything because the word acorn sounds like burning-bush or whatever the fuck nonsense you spouted last time.This... does not sound familiar? I think you might be confusing me with someone else.>And really- Hebrew itself is mispronounced and misspelled. The Masoretics didn't actually know enough Aramaic to reconstruct it properly. Hebrew is... you know, a sister language to Aramaic.
>>23956135>you know, a sister language to AramaicWildly incorrect. Aramaic is the language of the period, which was never very popular. It's related to Assyrian, so much so that the Greeks just called most of Mesopotamia to the area where Israel is supposed to be "Syria". If you look at Greek maps and histories before the 3rd century BC they don't mention an Israel or a Judah. They do mention a Syria and Phoenicia. Hebrew is a constructed language, a reconstruction attempt by the Masoretes of the 9th century. You will notice that all copies of the Mishnah, Halakhic texts, Talmud, whichever sefers, etc all date to the high medieval period. (not even the early medieval)
>>23956140>You will notice that all copies of the Mishnah, Halakhic texts, Talmud, whichever sefers, etc all date to the high medieval period. (not even the early medieval)What are the Dead Sea Scrolls?
>>23956142There are six big problems with the DSS:>1) The DSS come AFTER the Greek Septuagint is forged. Therefore, Greek remains primary regardless.>2) The DSS caves at Qumran were flooded out multiple times since the artifacts would supposedly have been writ.>3) The Qumran caves were already checked in the 19th century, it was actually one of the primary locations where antiquities searchers thought to look. It is highly unlikely they missed the complex of caves where the forgeries were stashed.>4) The Israeli state is predicated on pushing back historical artifacts that justify its settler-colonial expansion, hence the reason that the government of Israel only allows pre-selected agreeable individuals to handle the DSS.>5) The DSS have been tested overseas and found to be entirely 100% fraudulent in batch testing. The Israeli government was so humiliated by this turn of events that they have since retracted their support for those samples.>6) The dates are unreliable. Many sources will suggest that they were crafted as late as 70 AD or so, when the Romans would have impelled the area, forcing the remnants of scribes to have left them. Other sources attempt to push the date back two centuries. This all assumes they were authentic to begin with.I don't even want to touch on the fact that these were discovered on the eve of Israeli independence. They didn't even have the good sense to wait a few decades and find them.
>>23955966I will admit that statement is false when you can pick up every Latin or Greek text and read it without a dictionary. You, personally.
>>23955972that may not be the case, when it comes to stuff post antiquity and not technically ancient I think you will find that kind of texts, Atticizing stuff left untranslated by western scholars
bumpum
>>23957554Gauls inside your walls.
>潘章少有美容儀,時人競慕之。楚國王仲先,聞其美名,故來求為友,章許之。因願同學,一見相愛,情若夫婦,便同衾共枕,交好無已。後同死,而家人哀之,因合葬於羅浮山。冢上忽生一樹,柯條枝葉,無不相抱。時人異之,號為共枕樹Honestly pretty sweet.
ἘΓΕΡΘΗΤΕ
>>23957554>Galli hic esse possent
>CESSATO DILVUIO NOE EXTRAHI FECIT BESTIAS AB ARCAWhy not just "extraxit bestias ab arca"? Why would you go through the trouble of using a passive inf here?Silly Late Latin niggas clearly didn't have LLPSI and the Ranieri–Dowling method. I almost pity them.
>>23957950Also, for those who aren't studying Classical Chinese, a (fairly literal) translation:>Pan Zhang had a beautiful appearance from a young age, and the people of his time all greatly admired him. Wang Zhongxian from the state of Chu heard of his fair reputation, and came seeking to be his friend, which Zhang accepted. As he had wished they became fellow-students(not entirely sure about this clause), and they fell in love at first sight, their feelings for each other like a married couple, even sharing the same blanket and pillow, their affection for each other endless. When later they died together, their families were grieved, and they buried them together at Mount Luofu. Above their grave a tree suddenly sprouted up, its branches and leaves all intertwined. The people of the time wondered at this, calling it Gong Zhen Shu (Tree of the Shared Pillow).
>>23958939I mean the meaning is different, extrahi fecit sort of implies he had them moved out, as in, order to do so but not do it himself, extraxit is more active; in the vulgate it's "egressa sunt de arca" so it even lacks the implication of being ordered to, strictly speaking
>>23958939>Ranieri–Dowling
Hey guys, Luke Ranieri here. I heard that my method was being discussed. If you have any Latin or Greek related questions feel free to ask!
>>23959354salve calvissime, quo hercle pacto est radiis solis clariora concinnare capita quibus nostrum superni abstulere?
>>23959480*capillos videlicet, verba quoque auferunt mihi
>>23959039I find it funny that 4chan hates ranieri-dowling when it's literally the most anti-normie method you can do.
>>23959511I like him now that I realize he advocates brute force memorizing morphology. I assumed he was some Reddit faggot before.
might learn old French lads
>>23960632Very basedhttps://vocaroo.com/11LhAc1Q8auz
>>23952876They do make bilingual editions. There is one in Adler’s great books series. If Anon looks online they are only a few dollars.
>>23959354nōnne lingua latina lingua caelī mundīque? et graecus, sī tū amās id.
Teach me middle welshI'm monolingual i can't wrap my head around anythingAm I just cursed now
>>23960632They used to just call that "French." In New French it's called الفرنسية القديمة.
>>23961315>>>/pol/
I am reading the Parmenides. This morning I was reading Aristotle's Politics. Always fascinated by how Plato and Aristotle appropriate ordinary language to create technical terms. "Koinon ti." It's that shrimple.>>23961335Shut up you fucking faggot.
>>23961338>Shut upNo.Just keep your posts relevant to the thread's topic, being classical languages and literature, and keep modern politics/demographics out of it.
errata: sultis de rebus publicis comminus verbis pugnare, esto saltem latine seu graece aut alia quavis lingua
>>23952899What are those words supposed to mean i get nothing from phonetics
>>23961359That's fair. >>23961346You are a faggot. No one cares what your preferred topics or jokes are. Stop whining. You are pearl-clutching about jokes in a thread about the languages of civilizations that routinely mass raped, enslaved, and genocided one another after a siege.
>>23961369Hint: u and v used to be the same letter.
>>23961384Nah he's in the right. Go away man. You can post like that on /int/
>>23961389What is chavge
>>23961399Seconded.
>>23961401...
>>23961399I'll post whatever I want. For example, I'm going to post right now that I listened to a fine radio play of Aristophanes' Birds last night, and I'm now reading Grote's History of Greece. I'll further post that I read Aeschylus' Persians and Seven Against Thebes yesterday, and I'm planning to read another tragedy tonight. While I'm doing that, keep tone-policing 4chan with you thread boyfriend.Thinking of putting together an extremely literal interlinear translation of some Plato dialogues.
>>23961409if you're gonna throw a tantrum then refer to >>23961359 and latine seu graece dice
>>23961423Saying "stop tone-policing on 4chan, retard(s)" is not a tantrum, and I don't enjoy composing in Greek or Latin and I'm not particularly good at it. I had a friend I used to write in Latin back and forth with and it proved to me that composition is the best way to learn, however. Mainly because it forces you to recall interesting idioms from your reading and learn how to weave them into your writing, partly just to show off. But I find it stressful too. Conversely I don't think speaking the languages confers many benefits other than the very basics of consistent pronunciation.
>>23961434reacting this way to being told to keep on-topic is a tantrum
>>23961436I respect your choice to defend your emotional behavior with specious rationalizations, rather than throwing a tantrum and telling you to leave just because your histrionics annoy me. Now instead of extending your own tantrum, can you say something on-topic?For example I've been trying to get a better feeling for how the Greeks actually thought and spoke, by reading more non-rhetorical speech supposed to mimic everyday speech. Specifically I'm interested in how participles and participial phrases "felt" for them and whether they thought of sentences intuitively as "dual aspect." I don't know enough about philology or ancient linguistics to say for sure but I have a feeling it's very different from Latin, and maybe that's why the participial system is so much more robust in Greek.
>>23961434You're too old to behave like this
>>23961407What is it?
>>23961492The words are "diversity and change". I don't know why "change" is missing the N, it might be miscopied.
>>23961497Ok
I can barely even read modern English and my eyes go dull whenever I see to many big wordsI only speak English
I heard one of you punks was shit talking Syriac. Who done it? Come clean and you can leave peaceably.
>>23961616Syriac? more like SyriACK!!!
>>23961338I have a rudimentary knowledge of Greek meaning I can read it phonetically. I am making my way through Parmenides’ poem (dual side edition translated to English by the Italian mystic “Raphael”). I actually understand far more of it than I would’ve guessed seeing as I have no formal Greek language instruction. The names “Dike”, “Aletheia” and “Themis” keep popping up from time to time.
>>23935653Hebrew is the best language, and I'm a nice cuckgoy to say that.Admittedly it's not as sophisticated as Greek or Latin, but it's so beautiful sounding and appealing to look at, I love how it doesn't have vowels and the way the Book of Psalms uses it poetically is amazing (some Psalms have every line begin with each letter of the Alphabet).
how does one write cursive Ancient Greek?
>>23961861does one?
>>23961662That is literally the best way to learn Greek vocabulary. I learned initially by just reading Aristotle and genuinely being curious what the original Greek words for shit were. From there it's not a massive leap before you start recognizing common words, common participle endings etc., so that, even if you don't know what something means you can at least figure out what word you're looking for. And from there it's a small leap to having just enough knowledge to "get around," like knowing ὅτι and ὡς mean, etc. If you do this in tandem with just the "easy" chapters of a Greek textbook, like the first 10 or so, you'd find yourself leapfrogging over difficulties and gaining new skills/knowledge that then let you go back and tackle more of the textbook in a way that isn't a chore. Even if you never learn Greek all the way I still highly recommend to anyone getting to the point that you can at least enjoy reading a parallel edition like this. All the heavy lifting is done by the cuck classicist who actually has to know the nuances of the middle passive of the boring load-bearing verbs in the sentence that just mean "uphold" or "maintain." You get to focus on the cool stand-out key concepts. If you "cheat" like this for a couple years you'll find yourself learning Greek by accident anyway. How much of a leap is it from this to just being able to recognize the aorist and perfect forms for regular verbs? Not much. Honestly this is how I think most people learned Greek back in the 19th century. You're just sort of always doing it here and there, and some people are way better than others but most people know just enough to get along. Also, if you do feel like plowing through the textbook, it will be 90% easier because you'll have so much that's already familiar to you and it won't be a chore. >>23961491>Person A: Don't make off-color jokes on 4chan >Person B(ased): Shut up pussy>Person A: Let me list the many reasons and ways you're freaking out for saying that to meNo, shut up pussy.
I want to learn welsh. Why are Celtic languages so hard
>>23961879Nah that guys in the right
>>23961879we've had a couple spergs almost killing this general in the past, so there's little tolerance for off-topicwhat you consider harmless jokes would be more tolerated if /pol/ discussion weren't so pervasive. I suggest you just let the matter rest
Is learning Latin worth it read untranslated medieval texts? Are most documents schizo religious shit or are there lots of work on philosophy/history
>>23961657You son of a gun. Take that back right
>>23962047There are a lot but it's mostly ones that presume you are really interested in medieval philosophy specifically. There are even more in Arabic, it's amazing how barely begun Islamic philosophy is as a field. But again that is basically because the broad strokes ARE done, and most people are only interested in those, while the enormous amount of texts that are not translated and not well understood by anyone are very "in the weeds." For example terminist stuff in Latin. But there are still works of even big names like Scotus that are in the process of being translated IIRC, mainly because nobody even knows how to interpret Scotus. History-writing, I think there is less and that everything major is translated. But primary sources, there is an infinite amount of stuff that is only in Latin. There is also a surprisingly huge amount of untranslated neo-Latin in the 16th to 18th centuries. >>23961994I have let it rest, I called everybody disagreeing with me a gay retard. That is as final as I can be.
>>23962119Why are you ruining this thread? Grow up already.
>>23962119>clearly instigated an argument >doubles down can't admit his faults >tries to deflect and say you're the off topic oneimmature
>>23962119You're such a little brat. Embarrassing post.
>>23961994whiny faggotbet you can't read Latin
>>23962170>>23962173>>23962175samefag>posts exactly 61 seconds apart
>>23961861I think there is such a thing as proper cursive Greek script, but in college I just took my notes in Cyrillic cursive using descendant/cognate letters.
>>23962261well that's a wild accusation I don't care to disprove
Look, I'll even delete my last post so the issue stays dropped. >>23961861There are Byzantine minuscule scripts you could try imitating. I wonder if any of the Oxyrhynchus papyri have anything like shorthand?
>>23961861>>23962895>An Introduction to Greek and Latin Palaeography - Sir Edward Maunde ThompsonHe has two chapters on this very topic - one on Greek papyri and the other on Greek cursive alphabets. He covers several styles and periods, pic related is one example. Also see the section on Greek Miniscule Book Hands which has plenty of examples that come very close to cursive and due to being photos of parchment rather than papyrus they scan much clearer.Unfortunately scans of palaeographical books are difficult to read. I have a real edition and it is much clearer. You can find scans easily through the usual sources or a used copy on abebooks for about $35. Well worth it if you are interested in the topic.
>>23962985Neat, thanks anon. I wonder what it would be like to study something like this. You're not arguing about whether Lucretius was a fag, or reinterpreting one line of the Phaedrus for the billionth time. You're mapping all the inscriptions of Euboea and actually discovering something new that gets us closer to ancient consciousness.
>>23962119idk why this guy is getting so much hate for being right, and presumably handsome as well
in the age of AI i am become rajeesh the $2 an hour full stack expert.
>>23964038It isn't hard to get into. That book previously mentioned is a great introduction and a staple of the discipline. Bischoff's Latin Palaeography is another must-read. From there branch out into whatever direction interests you most. I can offer some suggestions if you want though my interests are more in the Latin manuscript tradition. Recently libraries digitize manuscripts quite frequently so there are plenty to find online for practice.
bump
>>23962047That's why I'm learning it. There are major sources out there that haven't been translated or haven't been in print for a century so I hope one day I can translate these things and get them published somehow
>>23962119Agree. I'm a philistine and don't love poetry/lit as much as others ITT, the first time I really used my Latin irl was reading Averroes. Most of Averroes is only available in Latin. Same for Avicenna - a lot of him is only available in Latin (or Arabic) to this day, but if you have even a basic knowledge of the language (these guys write very straight-forwardly) it's all there on google books.>>23961879This guy knows what he's talking about. If your main interest in Greek/Latin is philosophy, getting a Loeb and picking up enough to 'muddle along' will be highly enriching even if you never become fluent. Honestly a lot of these published scholars in phil are not fluent readers of Greek or Latin, they just know enough to muddle.
>>23965500>Honestly a lot of these published scholars in phil are not fluent readers of Greek or Latin, they just know enough to muddle.imagine this being allowed in any other discipline lmao
>>23965508It's true everywhere. Latin and Greek are hard languages to master, people studying something else that only tangentially involves Latin/Greek don't necessarily have time to become fluent. Like, they can read linguistically simpler stuff like Aristotle or Plotinus near fluently; and they can read Plato pretty well; but ask them to read an ode of Pindar and watch them sweat.
>>23961359>sultis>comminus>third person estoPretentious and ungrammatical.
>>23965556ἔστω!
>>23965556sit sane senatus frequentibus lepide et concinnate orare, agoratim non piget piscarie fabularier
>>23965605>agoratimSane quod ne Oxoniensi quidem invenitur non frequenter orari constat, neque Senatu nec aliter.
>>23965662quid ergo? si histrio quidam in comoedia quadam ad nos relata 'agoranomum' semel aut bis forte dixit hauriens omnino ex Graecorum verbis, nefas est mihi nunc 'agoratim' proferre? agedum logonome
>>23964407Chatgpt is good enough to build webapps now?
>>23965697Vix equidem mihi ad fas pertinere videtur; de frequentatione orando disputasti, eodemque responsum tibi dedi. Certe tibi licet isto modo farier.
>>23965717minime, fortasse male scripsi; est eorum, qui ad senatum frequentes se conferunt invicem oratum, lepide loqui; nobis haud in senatu sed sicut in quodam forum deambulantibus, licet sicut piscarii garrire meamet sententia, etsi Cicero ille mulctam nobis dixisset prius quam se in Tiberim proiceret
>>23962985Coincidentally, I was looking at old writing hands, and found a sample of Greek. You might be interested to see it - the book is from the 1618
>>23965739>in quodam forum>conditional is backwardsThese threads start to look pretty silly when you realize not a single one of these /clg/ wizards can write even one grammatically correct Latin sentence. I'd write this in Latin but you probably couldn't read it.
>>23965769Is being a cunt the solution?
>>23965769Is nitpicking in English the solution?
>>23965770anglice dicitur "projection", patet quod tiro est qui censet sententiae ordinem sicut in libellis suis firmum esse
>>23965739>fortasse male scripsiMinime; ego pessime intellexi.
οἱ Λατινολαλοῦντες οὐ μόνον χαυνόπρωκτοι ἀλλ' αεἰ συνεχῶς δακνόπρωκτοι
>>23966147lol
>>23966147Albe loquere
>>23965716you still need a base level understanding to know what is going on, what to ask for, and recognize when it is feeding you slop. in the same way it's a good idea to have a wheelock's tier understanding of grammar before using generative AI as a tutor/aid otherwise you will be unknowingly misled. I still get filtered by spacing with CSS
>>23965779bravo, bravo
Any Japanese guide? I want to read hentai.
>>23965769>smugly barges into a Latin exchange>...to complain in English about the Latin equivalent of a typo and something that isn't even incorrect Based troll
>>23966337Not a classical language>>>/int//lang/
>>23966344>classical languages>used for shit considered best in its genre>hidden gems that haven't been translated yet>Japanese>used for shit considered best in its genre (cartoon porn)>hidden gems that haven't been translated yet (cartoon porn)
>>23965744what book
I will never learn old english...
>>23966476>The pens excellencie or the secretaries delighte it's on archive dot org
Why are they mistranslating this?
>>23966830wdym? the translation of θηλυνομέω?
>>23966360It's a modern living language. If you wanted to learn Old/Middle Japanese that would be another matter, but so far as I know resources for those generally assume you already know Modern Japanese.
>>23966562you will and you will be happy
Are language departments at universities always inferior to linguistics departments when it comes to historical linguistics? I’m currently taking a course on Old High German (German department), and the explanations and details don’t seem complete or undisputed to me. I get more out of Wikipedia in some cases. I really want to learn more about Grimm’s Law and Verner’s Law
>>23968747So Grimm's law is perfectly described in this helpful little image. A helpful phrasing that I would use as a mnemonic is that "b, d, and g transform through unaspiration then shifting then reaspiration." the shifts from b-p d-t and g-k are pretty sensible if you understand the basic linguistic alphabet. i'm not a linguist so i don't remember the names of the other two but d and t are both dental. Are there other details you don't understand?
ΧΑΙΡΕΤΕ ΑΙΘΙΟΠΕΣ
Is china possible?
>>23968966What?
>>23968966ἀδυνώτατον
how does Verner’s Law explain the ‘th’ in English ‘father’? I thought the results were /b/, /d/, /g/?
>>23968960Salve, niger. Te reporta ad proxissimum praedium ad agrum colendum.
>>23969277It was fæder in Old English.
>>23969322so the th sound was an allophone?
>>23969346I'm not entirely sure what happened to "father" et al.
>>23969346>The spelling with -th- (15c.) reflects a widespread phonetic shift in Middle English that turned -der to -ther in many words, perhaps reinforced in this case by Old Norse forms; the spelling caught up to pronunciation in 1500s (compare mother (n.), weather (n.), hither, gather).
>>23969373that explains how it was absent in West Germanic
hi this is old norse specialist dr jackson crawford
vera mulier numquam eris. matricem non habes, ovaria non habes, ova non habes. vir homosexualis es medicamentis et chirurgia in crudam imaginem naturalae perfectionis corruptus. omnis qua uteris validatio falsa et simulata est. post te omnes te inridunt. parentes tui te fastidiunt et tui se pudent, amici tui deridunt speciem tuam informem. vires omnino te defugiunt. milia evolutionis annorum effecerunt ut incredibile facultate impostores detegere possint. et illarum quae pro mulieribus "accipiuntur" transexualium conspectum innaturalem et alienum vires habent. ossium structura plane dicit. etsi ebrium forte reduxeris domum, celeriter in fugam se coniciet, ubi primum aegri, infecti, securis vulneris fetor ad nasum pervenerit. numquam laetaberis. subrisionem falsam proferis singulis matutinis animum intra te confirmans, penitus tamen depressionem sentis velut malam herbam obrepentem, cuius intolerabili pondere mox opprimeris. in dies amplius sustentare non valebis. funem emes, in laqueum ligabis, quo cervicem praecinges, et in frigidum abyssum te praecipitabis. parentes te invenient, contriti sed solacio fruentes, intolerabili sibi pudore et amaritudine tandem vivendum non esse. sepelieris sub lapillo nato nomine inscripto, et quisque hospes in sempiternum sciet virum ibi sepultum. corpus putrescet et in pulverem revertetur, et hereditatis tuae nihil remanebit sine sceleto indubie masculo. ecce sors tua. ecce quod elegisti. revertendum non est.
>>23970004non memini haec a Cicerone in Catilinam dicta esse, credo autem
>>23970068catilinA non sine causa nominabatur
Μερικές φορές διαβάζω τις συζητήσεις που κάνετε και αναρωτιέμαι. Ενδιαφέρεστε αποκλειστικά για τις αρχαίες ελληνικές διαλέκτους ή προσπαθείτε να μάθετε και στην πορεία την καθομιλουμένη γλώσσα ; Όσοι έχετε ασχοληθεί εκτενέστατα με τα αρχαία κείμενα μπορείτε να διαβάσετε σύγχρονο κείμενο και να καταλάβετε το νόημα;
>>23969694>divorced>mild internet fame>gets definitely not gold digging leech gf>displays her proudly in every video like a fisherman showing off bass he caughtJust a matter of time before he gets taken for everything again
>>23970123he's divorced?
>>23970129He talks about it whenever he mentions his bitter experience in academia. That one video about why he doesn't recommend the academic route is worth watching for everyone considering it
>>23970132>why he doesn't recommend the academic routeI was always under the impression it was because he's a secret chud
>>23970104ἔξεστιν Ἑλληνιστὶ ἀποκρίνασθαι; τἀληθὲς εἰπεῖν ἐδέομην Γουγλ Τρανσλατε χρῆσθαι ἵνα τὸ σὸν ἄγγελμα παράπαν συνείην, καὶ εἱ πολλοὺς καθ'ἕκαστον λόγους ἔγνων· τοὐμὸν μέρος εἰς τὸ νῦν τὸ πόλυ ἐσπούδαζον περὶ τῆς Ὁμηρικῆς καλουμένης διαλέκτου καί τι τῆς Ἀττικῆς· τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Ματθαίου ἐστι τὸ καινότατον τὸ ἀνέγνων βιβλίοντὰ πολλ'οὐ δύναμαι τὴν καινοτέραν διάλεκτον βεβαίως καταλαμβάνειν ἄνευ βοηθείας τινός
>mods delete some anon's thread about being in love with a hijabi just when i was going to recommend NefzawiAnon, if you see this, Nefzawi's Perfumed Garden and the Qur'an
From Ovid: Amores II.18>Vincor, et ingenium sumptis revocatur ab armis,>resque domi gestas et mea bella canoI think the literal translation is>I am conquered, and my talent is called back from arms taken up>and I sing of things done at home and my warsBut this doesn’t make sense to me. Can anyone help out?
>>23970794never touch a green keyboard again
>>23971825δεῖ σε Ἑλληνιστὶ οὐ πιθηκιστὶ ἀμείβεσθαι πεόφαγε
>>23971812I think it makes sense in context with the lines before, basically, he wants to deal with war and manly stuff like Macer singing of Achilles, etc..., but he's "defeated" by Venus personified by the mistress and goes back to softer things
>>23972864why is there a us flag in the background
>Deeply interested in an obscure subject>Learn classical language for that purpose>Quickly learn everything there is to know about it>Reach top of my field before I'm even 30>Feels like there's no one left to learn from>Just gotta do a bunch of research and begin writing my own stuffI wonder if anyone knows this obscure pain.
>>23973324Every polis in the world belongs to America
I study linguistics and German (in Germany). I'm virtually the only person on my university who is interested in historical linguistics (old high german). What are the chances that I land a job in academia if I focus on the historical linguistics stuff? Or should I just give it up and go for a master in comp. linguistics?
>>23973709>land a job in academia if I focus on the historical linguisticsSpend some time searching for unis with historical linguistics programs. There will be shockingly few and you will be competing with PhDs with years if not decades of experience. If you are set on it then good luck, if not consider it a hobby and get your degrees in something that provides enough financial security to pursue your hobbies.
>>23973651what language, what subject
>>23973709No one here is going to know how European academia works, it's a whole different ecosystem from North American academia. Whenever I see those 5 year kraut postdocs pop up on hnet I'm like what the fuck even is this. Maybe try diversifying and becoming a German medieval historian since you have to work on the texts anyway and then you can apply simultaneously to linguistics, Germanic Studies depts, and history depts. Learn Latin so you can apply to medieval studies as well.
>>23973651i'm on that path but i don't think it will cause me any pain.
>>23973709>>23973820>>23973800I studied historical linguistics in Europe for an MA and I can give some perspective. If you specialize in hisling, you probably won't ever find a position lecturing on your chosen specialty, but it is possible to get work on something touching it. For example if you get a PhD and postdoc in old high german hisling you might only get a guest lecturer position teaching medieval German literature or history, or else teaching some intro linguistics/historical linguistics courses. It depends on the focus of your department really, there are few historical linguistics departments but lots of medieval studies, classics, history, linguistics depts etc. I don't think there's much demand for German historical linguistics, to be honest. There are decent prospects if you focus on Latin, Greek, Old English, Norse or Celtic but German is probably not in demand at all.If you want to pursue it, you will have to fight for very specialized positions or else be very flexible and willing to take roles that are only tangentially related to your area of interest. Only recommend pursuing if you come from a wealthy family and don't care about finding a job anytime soon, that is the demographic who makes up most Classics/Medieval depts in Europe anyhow.
>>23950117⟨ʋ⟩ seems like a good compromise for not knowing whether to pronounce something like V or W. It also seems more likely to be something which would precede a histotical transition to a V sound.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labiodental_approximant
Why is our (U.S.) education system such a fucking joke? It's an abomination that we're taught English grammar and composition without having learned some Latin grammar. Every grammatical term and description was borrowed from Latin by grammarians who knew Latin, and most of the rules were heavily influenced by Latin. I'm sure this is obvious to many of you but it's just setting in for me as a relatively new Latin student. I feel like I've been robbed of 12 years of education. It's even more embarrassing because I went to a Catholic school.
>>23974767Huh? What's the big dealGrammar for a language takes like a month to learn at most
>>23974767Because it's the shell of a European education system being applied to non-Europeans with no civic unity and 2 standard deviations lower IQ. The state should always be curating a natural aristocracy by having elitist public education but it shouldn't expect everybody to make is through this education. The reason the state can't be allowed to do this is that it would make it very obvious which groups can't make it through. Once this anomalous era of laissez-faire ideology being weaponized to justify the creation of a mischling lumpen is over, normal sensible pedagogy will be a possibility again and we can go back to the German Gymnasium system where kids learn Latin and Greek by age 10-15.
>>23974767The US education system is a joke, but not specifically because it doesn't teach Latin. Many fine education systems teach Latin as an elective, or not at all.The US education system is a joke because of its unreasonable expectation for everyone to pass high school
>>23974833>non-Europeans with no civic unity and 2 standard deviations lower IQHave you seen Europe lately?
>>23974983I wish I could move there. They're so much better
>>23975003posts like yours make me understand why europeans make fun of us
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