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tell me i'm not the only one seeing this shit

>>23958131
>There is absolutely nothing sophisticated about Dany, she's an uneducated, egotistical, petty, borderline schizo child with nukes as pets. It's not like she's bringing the best of Bravos, Myr and Qarth to Westeros, no...she's bringing bloodthirsty mercenaries, pillaging and rapist dothraki, a literal freak army that only knows how to follow orders and kill, and poor people.
Just the way historical colonizers did. Which is exactly my point.

Daenerys is STILL the rightful heir.

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>>23958154
Ah yes, because all those colonizers bringing superior Christian ethics, culture, technology and art to sadistic savages are the real villains. What a bold, insightful take!

>>23958183
Dany needs a shrink, a quiet house with a red door in the countryside, and dick. She would be happy. But I'm afraid she would never be fit to manage an inn, much less a kingdom.

>>23958192
But she must, since it's her duty as a Targaryen, the house responsible for the existence of 7 kingdoms, king's landing and the iron throne among other things. If she abandons her legacy then she's a much worse character than even the most hardcore of haters believer her to be. She has gained experience and will continue to do so, hopefully.

>>23958198
>existence of 7 kingdoms
United* 7 kingdoms, if that wasn't obvious for some reason.

>>23958191
>Ah yes, because all those colonizers bringing superior Christian ethics, culture, technology and art to sadistic savages
Well this goes out of "GRRM being afraid to stick with his guns and be seen as bigot, a Trump supporter, an intolerant xenophobe" and into your historical headcanon.

>>23958199
>United* 7 kingdoms
Which is a good thing how?

>>23958198
Dany never thinks of her position in terms of duty, only in terms of her ''birthright''. She never bothers to question if Westeros is being somehow oppressed by ''the usurper and his dogs'', for all she knows everyone if perfectly content with the status quo over there (aside from a couple houses that, supposedly, would support her), but still she's willing to start a bloody war, cause untold numbers of deaths, spread famine and suffering...just so she can have her ''birthright''. That's some entitled psycho shit right there. There is no evidence that she grew out of that mindset either, quite the contrary, her last chapter suggests that she's going full fire and blood on everyone, screw politics.

>>23958205
How is basic knowledge of history headcannon now?

>>23958206
It isn't. More centralization of power means the individuals (mostly the commonfolk) get even more oppressed.

>b-but muh prophecy...muh OTHERS! the ends justify the means!

>>23958206
Ever since primates, human evolution has led us to bigger and bigger societies, from families to tribes, towns, cities, countries etc. Everything naturally leads to unification. Obviously for good reasons. A united nation is more powerful than any single individual.
>>23958213
>in terms of her ''birthright''.
It is duty by her birthright, yes. The two are interdependent, whether you mask it as "duty" as Stannis does or "birthright" as Dany does matters not.
>but still she's willing to start a bloody war, cause untold numbers of deaths, spread famine and suffering..
That's what other houses did in the first place. It's not like Westerosi have no choice but to go to war, they can surrender. Whether or not they accept the rightful heir is all on them.
>That's some entitled psycho shit right there.
It's common sense and pride. She has the greatest westerosi legacy weighing on her shoulders, only a piss commoner would give up on such a matter.
>full fire and blood on everyone
As befit the rightful queen and/or a great conqueror. History dosn't remember pussy commoners, but monarchs, conquerors, e.g. Alexader the Great.
Bow ya shits.

>>23958213
>How is basic knowledge of history headcannon now?
Meanwhile basic knowledge of history:

The Holy See encouraged the colonization of India and the New World as a concepts, but strongly condemned the practice and colonizers in realization, with a vast number of them ending up excommunicated.

Makes sense, seeing as Hernan Cortez, Francisco Pizarro, the East India Company etc. were not bringing the best of Florence, Madrid and London to colonies, no... they brought bloodthirsty mercenaries, pillaging and rapist pirates, literal freak armies that only knew how to follow orders and kill.

Most of colonial explorer expeditions literally were comprised mostly or largely out of convicts or bondsmen, because free people did not feel great about such suicidal endeavors, and when they did manage to encounter a suitable less advanced civilization, they did not proceed to heroically educate, convert and uplift them - more often than not they raped and pillaged until their ships could barely stay afloat with loot, which only served to severely impede the process of bringing superior Christian ethics, culture, technology and art to sadistic savages, to a huge asspain of the Church and monarchies that were trying to do exactly that.

Once again - criticism of colonialism is not a new woketard concept. The learned contemporaries of colonialism, such as Bartolomé de las Casas, Francisco de Vitoria, Alonso de Sandoval, Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda, John Milton, William Blake, Joseph Conrad, Hilaire Belloc etc etc etc - most of them people who actually believed that the savages should be brought up to Christian ethics, culture, technology and art - effectively all were in agreement that the actual colonization as it happened was accomplishing the exact opposite of that noble mission.

In fact, the idea that European colonization has in any way effectively uplifted the colonized territories and peoples is a modernist XX century invention, appalling to pre-modernist thinkers and utterly discredited today.

>>23958239
>A united nation is more powerful than any single individual.
Which is a good thing how? You a bootlicker or something?

>>23958239
You're the one conflating duty with rights. We've seen the inside of Dany's mind, and there is nothing there about duty until she starts ruling Mereen...and it doesn't last long until the fire and blood thing. Stannis, on the other hand, actually put his money where his mouth is, and was the only king to answer the call from the Wall for the good of the people. Besides, its not like every Targ heir (or heir in general) always had a strong sense of responsibility and duty attached to the concept of birthright, I think that's clear enough.

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>>23958263
All that text, and no substance to it. I'm from latin america, and the idea that we would be better off today WITHOUT european colonization is laughable. In fact, the best of what we have is the insufficient culture, institution, art, religion and science brought to us. We have advanced millennia in development thanks to that, despite all the trauma of imperfect colonization. I'm not interested in blaming the descendants of european colonizers for our current state, I blame myself and my own people for not embracing the best of the legacy of western civilization instead of falling for socialism, drug trade and populism. So you can fuck off with your noble savage masturbation somewhere else.

>>23958293
>I'm not interested in blaming the descendants of european colonizers for our current state
So we're once again out of "GRRM being afraid to stick with his guns and be seen as bigot, a Trump supporter, an intolerant xenophobe" and into your historical headcanon.

Once again, my entire point is that Dany can be a vicious colonizer of Westeros without any conflict with academic consensus on the matter or GRRM's libtard policies.

>embracing the best of the legacy of western civilization instead of falling for socialism, drug trade and populism
Communal existence of slaves and similar lower classes, and extractive economy identical to subsequent drug trade make up like 99,9999% of the colonial legacy of western civilization. For every patchwork shoddy library with copies of Aristotle in the new world there were about 50000 hectars of sugar cane plantations and silver mines. Pretending like a ton of modern issues in the relevant regions are not direct consequences of colonial practices is just as retarded as pretending that every single such issue is caused by colonialism while the pre-colonial natives wuz kangz and sheit.

I don't care how you personally cope with your people being actually literally buck broken for centuries, but don't force your copes as a historic reality.

>>23958313
The real reason for Gurm's backpaddling is the optics of it all in this new social climate, not his worry for historical accuracy. Like I said, he's a coward. There isn't one single universal type of colonization from history, but he's afraid of people accusing him of making some very specific parallels.

>Pretending like a ton of modern issues in the relevant regions are not direct consequences of colonial practices is just as retarded as pretending that every single such issue is caused by colonialism while the pre-colonial natives wuz kangz and sheit.

If only we have been left alone I could be cannibalized in peace or been ritualistically sacrificed by the ''kangz'' instead of being aware of the existence of superior western culture. Again, fuck off.

>>23958333
>but he's afraid of people accusing him of making some very specific parallels.
Such as...

>If only we have been left alone I could be cannibalized in peace or been ritualistically sacrificed by the ''kangz'' instead of being aware of the existence of superior western culture.
So now your brownoid ass gets to be cannibalized by favelans on crack, but now you get to think about Schopenhauer while a gangbanger dick dumps AIDS cum into your sophisticated and westernized bussy.

The absolute state of brownoid copium.

>>23958191
>Arguing in favour of colonisation
I dunno how you're a fan of GRRM considering ASOIAF is all about refuting the ideologis that evolved into colonialism and imperialism. You're also just wrong

>>23958239
Alot of talk for something that will never happen because George isn't finishing the books so Daenerys is perpetually stuck shitting in some field in the middle of nowhere, dying from dehydration. Way for the "rightful heir" to the Iron Throne to go out lol.

>>23958275
>until she starts ruling Mereen.
So there is.
Again, duty and birthright are interdependant. We don't know what Dany would do in Stannis's shoes or vice versa because sitations are completely different, they face different challenges and have different legacies to bear.
>for the good of the people.
And Daenerys freed the slaves, for the good of the people. It's not hard to see that Dany isn't some secret antagonist making illogical decisions once you move past your echochamber.
>the fire and blood thing.
She rightfully reassures herself of her duty to both her legacy and people. It's ok to be Targ, it's ok to have pride. Only subversive kike would say otherwise.

>>23958372
>She rightfully reassures herself of her duty to both her legacy and people. It's ok to be Targ, it's ok to have pride.
Yeah but it's not okay to burn children.

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>>23958374
Maybe we'll see one day that this is indeed canon lol

>>23958213
>Dany never thinks of her position in terms of duty, only in terms of her ''birthright''.
Have you actually read A Dance with Dragons? Are you David Benioff?

>>23958384
I deliberately implied a parallel between Stannis burning Shireen and Dany's dragons burning a shepherd's child.

Eagerly waiting for a GRRM seethe post about Trump winning.

If I can’t have winds then I want the next best thing, George to suffer.

>>23958353
That would be more convincing if George didn't have such a hard on for Targaryans. Do you think he's ok with HOTD's song of ice and fire prophecy? He hasn't mentioned it in his butterfly effect blog post, so I'm assuming it came from him and he intended to make it canon at some point. So basically its ok to play god in order to fulfil prophecy for the greater good while starting war of conquest in an entire continent with your demon lizards...if you're a Targaryan. Yeah, seems like a very coherent message. Oh, and Aegon the Conqueror and Rhegar will be redeemed by Jon Snow playing a vital role in saving Westeros from the Others, so it was all justified in the end kek

Gurm can't stop sucking Targcock.

>>23958388
Post a single passage from ADWD where Dany thinks about liberating Westeros from the usurpers for the good of the people, and not her birthright. I'll wait.

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>>23958391
NTA, but I just want to remind everyone that only one of these is book canon. Danyfags coping hard today.

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>Daenerys Stormbowels of House Targaryen, the Mother of Diarrhea, the Defekhaleesi of the Great Grass Shit, the Unconstipated, the Breaker of Toilets.

>>23958423
Didn’t George openly say that Stannis is gonna burn shireen?

>>23958449
At some point, yes. At some point he also intended for Jaime to be king and for a romantic triangle between Arya, Jon and Tyrion. Until it reaches a published book, its not canon.

>>23958451
Yeah but that Jamie triangle whatever was never a plot point he gave to D&D and never happened in the show.

Stannis burning shireen was though so that means he’s probably sticking with it. Granted it proably won’t be as stupid but it’s gonna happen, unless he decides to do a revamp which would I guess would be his choice.

>>23958451
>At some point he also intended for Jaime to be king and for a romantic triangle between Arya, Jon and Tyrion.
This comes from the letter he sent to his publisher when he had only written a few chapters and thought it would be a trilogy.
He said that Stannis was going to burn Shireen after writing 5 books and while he was writing TWOW.

>>23958465
>>23958469
The Gurm is infamous for changing his mind and making shit up as he goes. I'll believe it when I read it in TWOW.

>>23958469
>he was writing TWOW.

>>23958411
Still waiting.

>>23958449
It's been how many years since then, and George always talks about how he is a "gardener", letting his stories grow and take form on their own. So Stannis burning Shireen is as guaranteed as Daenerys escaping her bowel condition, i.e. not at all.

so what the fuck is varys' deal anyways, why is he so fiercely loyal to the targs?

>>23958133
Guys, what do you think about Cerse's council?
I know they are useless ass kissers, but how would you calify their actions while they were in charge? Did they have any potential to actually be useful? Would things could have go in a different way if Cersei had listened to them?
I know, for example, that Pycelle gave some good advices at least. He warned of how the faith could be impossible to manage without the restriction laws. Qyburn also was a competent lord of whispers and healer.
What is your opinion about them?

guys what are some ways to write erotica in GRRM fashion

There's the Myrish swamp but what other fun metaphors does he use for genitalia

>>23958591
>So it'd be better to marry Cat to Black Walder
Everyone at the Twins hates Black Walder, because he's ambitious and actually capable enough to probably eventually backstab his way to the lordship of the Twins. Walder himself suspects that Blacky probably fucked his previous wife. The last thing Walder would want is flaming his ambition with a somewhat prestigious marriage to Cat.

>or a son of Walder then
Now that would be entirely possible in a situation where the Red Wedding does not happen - though the only Walder's sons of certain parentage that remain unmarried are Perwyn and Olyvar, who are teenagers and like 15ish by seniority, but that would still serve to make a halfway decent alliance. The younger sons are almost certainly Black Walder's.

>>23958589
> Did they have any potential to actually be useful?
Kevan did. The rest are unequestionably worse than having no councilors. Pycelle is a blatant Citadel stooge. Qyburn is less trustworthy than Littlefinger.

>>23958411
Holy moving goalposts, Batman. You said she never thinks about her duty which she spends a whole book doing.
Even in terms of Westeros, the entire reason for her stay in Meereen is to learn how to rule for Westeros.
>“Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver’s Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on.”
>“You have brought freedom as well,” Missandei pointed out.
>“Freedom to starve?” asked Dany sharply. “Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?” Am I mad? Do I have the taint?
>“A dragon,” Ser Barristan said with certainty. “Meereen is not Westeros, Your Grace.”
>“But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?”

>>23958644
>Black Walder
>Cucks all the non-black men
What did GRRM mean by this?

>>23958662
Why are you ignoring the context of my previous posts? I was talking about her duty to ''her people'', the westerosi. I even acknowledged that she only started thinking about ruling when she starts ruling Mereen, but even then she actively refuses to learn about the situation in Westeros (when Barristan slowly tries to breach the subject), she never thinks about the Westerosi people as oppressed and in need of liberation, or even better management. All she thinks about is her rights, her rights, her rights, and the contrast with Stannis and his duty bound mentality is obvious. If you said she developed a sense of responsibility to the people of Slaver's Bay, I would agree...but THAT would be moving the goalposts, since we are talking about her sense of duty and responsibility as the Queen of Westeros. Her motivation from book 1 has been revenge and entitlement.

>>23958511
Yeah but there’s a difference between moving a seed somewhere else and uprooting the whole garden. And Dany shitting herself is not a major plot point, stannis burning shireen is though and it’s one of the major ones he told D&D was gonna happen along with bran being king, hodor hold the door etc.

I’m not being confrontational, I’m just saying it would be a pretty big change to make in the narrative, especially since stannis burning shireen happened in the show solely because George told D&D he was going to do it in his book, not because D&D were clever.

It was painfully obvious those two idiots had so much of a lack of understanding of the character that the actor playing Stannis didn’t know what he was doing half the time and openly called D&D amateurs (which was based), so there’s no way those two came up with that.

How would the book change if the fatman served in Vietnam like Tolkien?

>>23958692
I was responding to the opening statement of that post, which is clearly false.
>even then she actively refuses to learn about the situation in Westeros (when Barristan slowly tries to breach the subject)
The one time she doesn't listen to Barristan is on the subject of Ned, from her point of view a traitor who supported the rebellion and aided her family's killers. She has a personal grievance against certain people for reasons that aren't entirely inexcusable, that isn't refusing to learn about Westeros.
>she never thinks about the Westerosi people as oppressed and in need of liberation, or even better management. All she thinks about is her rights, her rights, her rights, and the contrast with Stannis and his duty bound mentality is obvious.
Stannis doesn't want to be king because he thinks the people are in need of liberation either. He wants to be king because it's the law. If the realm was ruled by a shitty but lawful king he'd be fine with it. He's also constantly stewing over his own grievances (not being given Storm's End, not being respected like Robert, Jon refusing his offer). I like Stannis but he isn't some selfless paragon.
Similarly, Dany thinks that Westeros is hers by rights but also wants to rule well. She doesn't think about ruling Westeros in ADWD for the simple reason that she isn't ruling fucking Westeros yet, she's ruling Meereen.
>Her motivation from book 1 has been revenge and entitlement.
If you want to ignore all the things she doesn't do out of revenge or entitlement, sure. By that logic Robb is also out for revenge and Stannis also feels entitled to the throne. Nobody is fighting for the throne simply because they think they'd be the best king for the people (well, Renly makes that argument but he's obviously deluded). Everyone either feels entitled to it by rights and/or wants revenge against some enemy, why are we singling Dany out?

>>23958773
Well, if you followed the reply chain the context was there. Learning about Robert, Ned and all of the ''usurper's dogs'', as well as the truth about his father, was among the most important things she could learn. Half the realm supported Robert's rebellion for a reason.

>f the realm was ruled by a shitty but lawful king he'd be fine with it

He wasn't when his brother rebelled against his rightful king. He chose his duty to family, meaning he's not just a brainless legalist, in extreme cases will will weight things down.

>He's also constantly stewing over his own grievances (not being given Storm's End, not being respected like Robert, Jon refusing his offer)

And all he did was silently seethe about it, not vow vengeance or let that corrupt his judgement.

>By that logic Robb is also out for revenge and Stannis also feels entitled to the throne.

Robb was basically coerced into declaring king, and there is a pretty big difference between how Stannis sees his role as being his duty, and Dany sees her role as being her right. It's not just semantics, it really shapes their entire worldview, moral principles and psyche.

>Everyone either feels entitled to it by rights and/or wants revenge against some enemy, why are we singling Dany out?

Because she's the most insufferable about it. Other pretendants to the iron throne don't keep boasting about their self-proclaimed titles or their birthrights half as much as Dany. And characters like Robb and Stannis display a strong sense of duty and responsibility, while also being better prepared (mentally and politically) to rule. It's really hard to root for Dany.

>I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.

vs

>it's mine, MINE MINE! MY BIRTHRIGHT! I'M DAENERYS TARGARYEN: THE FIRST OF HER NAME, THE UNBURNT, QUEEN OF MEEREEN, QUEEN OF THE ANDALS AND THE RHOYNAR AND THE FIRST MEN, KHALEESI OF THE GREAT GRASS SEA, BREAKER OF CHAINS AND MOTHER OF DRAGONS. ALL SHALL LOVE ME AND DESPAIR!

>>23958644
Pycelle is anything but a Citadel stooge, he was fanatically loyal to Tywin and advises Cersei to the best of his ability. It's not his fault that Cersei went insane in AFFC and demanded impossible things like keeping Gyles Rosby alive.

>>23958814
>Stannis sees his role as being his duty, and Dany sees her role as being her right. It's not just semantics, it really shapes their entire worldview, moral principles and psyche.
Again, there's the small detail of an entire book spent staying in a city she'd rather have left, chaining up her own dragons in a dark pit, marrying a man she doesn't care for and making peace with people she loathes, all because she feels she has a duty to her subjects. I keep bringing this up because it's an objectively relevant fact that you can't just dismiss or ignore when discussing her character.
>inb4 that was in Meereen, not Westeros
Refer to my previous post: because she's currently in Meereen, not in Westeros.
>Because she's the most insufferable about it.
Idk, at this point it comes down to which characters each of us finds unlikeable. Ask any two fans, you won't get the same answer.
>while also being better prepared (mentally and politically) to rule.
Because she was raised by a mentally unstable young man rather than Ned Stark or Cressen. I don't think she turned out too terrible under the circumstances.

>>23958727
>I’m not being confrontational
I'm sorry if I came across as a bit aggressive. I don't like Daenerys and the Targaryens at all so every time I see them mentioned I see red and get an urge to mock them.
As for the plot point of Stannis burning Shireen, I can't see how or even why that would happen when he seems poised to get a decisive victory of the Boltons and Freys, as well as having a pretty good standing with plenty of northern houses already. The only way of this plot point happening in my eyes is Stannis losing the battle, and then retreating or sending a raven to the wall, and having Shireen burned, and I just can't see him losing.

>>23958892
But you're trying to retroactively justify Dany's motivations (or lack of proper motivations) for wanting the iron throne in 4 consecutive books with her actions in the last book regarding a completely different place. At best we can say that Dany, despite being driven by entitled narcissism, god complex and revenge for the first four books, has now developed a sense of duty to the people of slaver's bay, and MAYBE, hopefully, that sense of duty would eventually extend to the people of Westeros (which she never seen in her entire life, remember). The thing is that Westeros doesn't need liberation from an institution like slavery, all it needs is peace and stability (which she certainly doesn't bring), so its uncertain if her sense of duty to the westerosi people would trump her sense of entitlement, at least in her conqueror phase.

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GLASS CEILING? ITS A CEILING MADE OF FUCKING BRICKS! THERE WILL NEVER BE A WOMAN LEADER OF THE WESTEROSI EMPIRE! WE WILL KEEP YOUR DOWN FOREVER

>>23958942
>But you're trying to retroactively justify Dany's motivations (or lack of proper motivations) for wanting the iron throne in 4 consecutive books
No, I am saying that having her family deposed (in her view, unlawfully) and murdered and wanting to punish those who did it and claim her rightful place is a valid and proper motivation in a medieval setting, and not that different from everyone else's motivation for wanting the throne when it comes down to it.
>has now developed a sense of duty to the people of slaver's bay, and MAYBE, hopefully, that sense of duty would eventually extend to the people of Westeros (which she never seen in her entire life, remember)
As opposed to Slaver's Bay, which she first saw in her life... a few months back.
There is no reason to treat the concept of ruling in Westeros as different from the concept of ruling in Slaver's Bay, and no reason she should feel a sense of duty as a ruler in one place and not the other. If anything, she should care *less* for the people of Slaver's Bay than for those of Westeros, given that she sees Westeros as her homeland. By her own account ( >>23958662 ), she sees Meereen as a trial run for Westeros.

>>23959027
>There is no reason to treat the concept of ruling in Westeros as different from the concept of ruling in Slaver's Bay

Except that the vast majority of the population of slaver's bay, you know, the slaves, idolize her (aside from a few that preferred their lives under the old system), while there is strong foreshadowing for Dany being completely rejected by pretty much everyone in Westeros, especially the smallfolk. Imagine her shock when, after all those years, all the suffering, she comes back home only for her dream to turn into a nightmare. Maybe that's what brings her over the edge to more...drastic measures. Then it will be really hard to justify her sense of duty for her ''subjects''. That's a bit of speculation, of course, but if the show was following the Germ's script, that's where we are headed.

>>23958400
Same. Fuck GRRM. Love that he knows his legacy is one of failure. No kids to speak of either

>>23959066
>That's a bit of speculation, of course, but if the show was following the Germ's script, that's where we are headed.
I'm a lot more skeptical about that than most people. Even when it comes to Stannis, I have to question how much D&D diverged from what they were told.
In fact, it seems to me that D&D applied the same formula to both Stannis and Dany: have them commit an act so despicable that they utterly debased themselves morally so that a more righteous character (Brienne and Jon) was justified in killing them. It seems like a specific D&D thing which never happened in the books so far but happens twice in the show.

>>23959092
You might be right, but on the other hand I can see the foundations for psycho-Dany, or Gurm's relatable Sauron, if you will. Or not. Maybe Dany is framed for Kings Landin's 9/11 by Cersei or JonCon and ends up sacrificing her last dragon to destroy the heart of winter. I guess we'll never know.

As if David and Dan would write dany going psycho and getting killed all on their own. They are liberal Jews. If it was up to them she would and god emporer of the world just like all the rest of the cucks in the fandom

why didn't robert give stannis storm's end? sure he liked renly more but giving it to him made no sense
stannis was the elder and earned it with his heroic deeds. grim as he was, he was still just and storm's end would've been fine with his rule

>>23959139
>They are liberal Jews.
Exactly why they would choose to trash a white, blond european woman and make a cripple the king lmfao. Reminder that GRRM is also a jew, and if his hebrew genes kicks in he'll do the same.

doesn't gurm CONSTANTLY change his mind and re-write shit? isn't that one of the reasons why winds is taking so long?

>>23958942
>all it needs is peace and stability (which she certainly doesn't bring)
Stannis and his war for the throne doesn’t bring that either. Let’s not be hypocritical here.

>>23959158
no anon, the reason why Winds take so much time is because Martin doesn't really write. You can't really expect Winds to come out in near future when George wrote A Dance with Dragons, cut out 250-300 pages from the book, called it The Winds Of Winter and then just proceded to do anything, but writing

>>23959202
Fair enough. My point is that she has no selling point to justify her cause except her birthright (which no one gives a shit about, and fAegon will steal her thunder). Every other player had strong selling points. Dany will either put her conquest on hold to fight the Others or will go full mad as soon as she steps on Westeros.

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>>23958644
hmm

so my self-insert warlord OC I wonder if it would be better if they were a young teenager that Catelyn ara-aras

I'd still want a bastard daughter that Catelyn might resent a little bit but maybe not 12, maybe 1 or 2.

>>23958427
the Great Ass Sea is still better

reject redditoids have taken over this general too. what a sad day

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Do you think Alyssa Farman really made it to Asshai? Or was corlys just coping? What about Brandon the shipwright? Do you think he found Asoiaf America and made ringforts like the Vikings in Newfoundland?

>>23959415
We'll just have to agree to disagree.

>>23958133
>best possible ending?
>worst possible ending?
>favorite theories?
>most underrated character?

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
Baratheon restoration
>worst possible ending?
Targaryen restoration
>favorite theories?
Empire of the dawn autism
>most underrated character?
Every ironborn

>>23958758
Will became more realistic on warfare because his experience on it

>>23959143
Cersei and Stannis himself think it's an affront, but Maester Cressen may be closer to the truth:
>Dragonstone had long been the seat of House Targaryen. He needed a man’s strength to rule here, and Renly was but a child.
The idea is probably that he would stay with the royal fleet on his island in the Narrow Sea, facing Essos and defending King's Landing. Additionally, it was tradition for the heir to the Targaryen throne to hold the title "Prince of Dragonstone."

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
the kingdom splitting up into 7 independent parts again
>worst possible ending?
lannisters staying in power
>favorite theories?
varys had a cock and balls all along
>most underrated character?
can't think of a major one but penrose was giga based

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>>23959484
>>best possible ending?
The Others completely take over Westeros, there is a great migration to Essos. It's the only way to have a real payoff after so much buildup and suspense. Its also the only way to support a coherent overarching theme of ''lords killing each other in needless wars ruin everything''
>>worst possible ending?
Meme democracy ending (the essential requirements for democracy are not there yet)
>>favorite theories?
the twins are targs, Tyrion is the only son of Tywin
>>most underrated character?
Garlan Tyrell

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
King Aemon Targaryen previously known as Jon Snow
>worst possible ending?
Independent north with a northman on the Iron Throne was pretty stupid
>favorite theories?
Stannis wins the Battle of Ice annihilating the Freys but is still forced to retreat to the Nightfort as he has insufficient numbers to storm Winterfell itself.
>most underrated character?
Ser Rolland Storm, the Bastard of Nightsong, pox-scarred with an "air of tattered chivalry." He commands the rear guard on the Blackwater that allows Stannis to escape, is one of Davos' "king's men" that helps save Edrick Storm, and the castellan of Dragonstone who kills a thousand Lannisters when they storm that fortress. Cersei herself thinks positively of him as "seasoned killer" capable of putting down the Knight of Flowers.

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>Natalia Tena pushed for a sex scene between her and Ramsay Bolton
>"They gave me a call, admitted off the bat that I was being brought back to die. Didn't surprise me. They told me I'd attempt to seduce Ramsay, try to stab him, get stabbed first, that's the end of Osha. I figured, fuck it, if she's going out, why not make it memorable? [I] figured that Osha would try to tire him out first by actually having sex with him and then go for the kill. They humored the idea and said they'd get back to me, but I figured they'd go with the scene as written. I floated the idea on set a second time, but they said there were time considerations."

>"Honestly, I think there was pushback against nudity at that point and they were trying to keep that in mind. I'm Spanish, I don't really get that. (Laughs). Americans are fine seeing me get stabbed through the throat, but getting my kit off trips up the censors. Tricky industry out there, I guess."

>>23959890
>Americans are fine seeing me get stabbed through the throat, but getting my kit off trips up the censors.
Why does everything everything EVERYTHING always circle back to AMERICA BAD

>>23959900
As someone who lived in Spain for 7 years, I don't think she's bitching for the sake of it, I think she's genuinely confused. Nudity and sex scenes are a given on Spanish TV. It's just a cultural difference.

>>23959906
Ah, I didn't know that.

>>23959906
America is very squeamish about nudity especially with women.

Like for some reason the Boys has like a dozen dicks but almost never any tits.

>>23959900
They had to censor a scene in the Hannibal tv show where we see two people killed in a “blood eagle” with their ribcages splayed out and lungs torn out of their bodies.
What they’re proving had to censor was the visible buttcheeks of the tortured bodies. They censored it with more bloody gore to cover them.

No this is not a joke.
The cannibal show with autopsy footage of dismembered bodies had a bit too much buttcheek. Someone might have popped a stiffy. Can’t have that on primetime.
American morality is fucking retarded.

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I think I know how Tyrion gets his dragon... he will tame it with food and we'll never know if he was truly a targ or not because he's not stupid enough to blowing that stupid fucking horn. This all hinges on GRRM fucking up the dates with Johanna for the first drafts of the story, allowing for the births of the Lannister trio to be sus. It also hinges on the theory of Jaime and Cersei being Targaryens and Johanna's death being faked who is now Quaithe, determined to help her sons and friend's child through dreams via glass candles

Basilisk venom was in possession of Maester Pycelle, and because he's a Tywin bootlicker he is either told or on his own uses it to poison Tyrion.with the poison.
>...which gives meat a savory scent, but induces a violent madness in any creature with warm blood, whether man or beast. Reportedly, a mouse will attack a lion after a taste of basilisk blood.
the word "savory" appears 6 times in Tyrion chapters and is by far the most with it being split evenly across other povs in usage.

There's also imagery between the basilisk and of gargoyles, imagery associated with Tyrion
>Davos Seaworth sees basilisks among the gargoyles that adorn the fortress of Dragonstone
>Cersei Lannister dreams of her visit to the tent of Maggy the Frog, which was lit by an iron brazier shaped like a basilisk's head

I think Tyrion was being dosed by Pycelle and that was a major influence for his outbursts hitting the king, making public threats, and just in general poor decision making. He will realize this in a dream sent by his mother, and he will get a cathartic release, mayhaps even his own "fighting on the trident" dream like Daenerys
>That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened

she has her interaction with Quaithe right after
>"Remember. To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow

Tyrion will go through the same thing, he will share this dream and repeat those words to her, proving he's legit, he will tame a dragon, fight for Daenerys (potentially fall in love, which would explain the poor execution of that relationship in s8) and he will command the Brazen Beasts in battle
>In Meereen, the animal-headed brass masks of the Brazen Beasts include the heads of basilisks

Who will be surprised when the Hightowers don't fight Euron, Leyton crowns Euron and marries him to Malora at Oldtown.

After all Euron and Leyton = Sauron and Saruman, and Euron and Malora = Randall Flagg and Nadine Cross

>>23959466
If she did, she was probably raped on her voyage there. If the guy can be banged in his fruity hole because his moustache looked gay, then how can a woman save her pussy?
She cannot!
I say it here right now, she was raped! And not once!

>>23959900
because america bad. have you considered that?

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
best as in what's best for Westeros: Others defeated; Euron killed; a unifier, doesn't matter who, reunites the continent and restores stability
best as in what'd be the ending I want to see: Listing my headcanon would be a bit too long for anyone to care
>worst possible ending?
show ending; whatever gurm came up with in his head that he'll never write; headcanons that aren't mine
>favorite theories?
the wildlings didn't get stuck on the other side of the wall. When it was built, no one lived north of it, only the children (and the Others when they came). The wildlings all descend from Night's watch deserters and their bastards (like Craster) from throughout the ages, with the first Night's watch members being Old Tongue speakers and those deserters becoming the Thenns; and later Night's watch members, speaking the Andal/Common tongue, making up the more recent (several centuries still) wildlings.
Wildling culture is founded in complete opposition to the order of the Night's watch, with complete freedom and lawlessness as opposed to the strict hierarchies of the watch, which is the result of deserters being fed up with being forced to become watch members and rebelling against its ideas.
This is my theory, I came up with it
>most underrated character?
Rickon, understandably so, since he's barely a character. But I'd love to see him return from having grown up around Skagosi wild men as this ferocious warg-king like the Stark kings of old, and become the ruler of the North (but not independent). This is my headcanon for him

>>23960662
*forgot the Giants, who also lived North of the wall alongside the children and the Others

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
Stannis dying like a martyr against the Others and Shireen takes the throne.
>worst possible ending?
Tommen ending up as king at the end, would be both nonsensical and unsatisfying, but at least a little funny. I do hope he somehow survives though.
>favorite theories?
Nightlamp theory, it just makes sense, but there's also a lot of heavy handed foreshadowing if you care to look. Also really like the idea that Arriane will seduce Aegon into marrying her, which will cause him and Daenerys, it also just makes sense and seems fully in character for all those involved.
>most underrated character?
Barbrey Dustin, she's the biggest wildcard in the North right now, and her doing something unexpected could easily be the nail in the coffin for Roose and Ramsay.

>>23960662
>The wildlings all descend from Night's watch deserters

So where did the women come from?

>>23960733
there were no women, only Satin's grand-grandpa

>>23960733
Theory torpedoed by dubs like it's MV Wilhelm Gustloff.

>>23960733
NTA, but they could come from the Gift, or the first wildlings could have kidnapped them from the North, like what happened to Crowfood Umber's daughter.

>>23960745
In large quantities, enough for them to survive child birth in a harsh environment with no support and to originate large communities while peak NW was too incompetent to prevent it? I don't know, man.

>>23960733
Previously there were women in the nights watch

>>23960745
That would entail subservient role of women in Wildling culture, as it would that they all were originally effectively thralls at one point, unwilling prisoners. But instead it's the opposite. Doesn't seem like something that could happen in a culture that grew out of wife kidnappings.

>>23960751
>Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I SHALL TAKE NO WIFE, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

>>23960733
rape

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
Targaryen dynasty revival with Daenerys, dragons (+eggs) at its head.
>worst possible ending?
Daenerys ends up dying for whatever reason. Baratheons survive.
>favorite theories?
Ice dragon somewhere in the wall or beyond
>most underrated character?
Illyrio

>>23960752
that's true, women are considered as things in places where it's normal to kidnap a woman and force her to marry you and it doesn't matter if said woman is local or not, they don't have much choice in these places

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Today I learned the House of the Undying scene is a scatological metaphor.

>>23960871
Could it be that while Daenerys spills brown soup upon Dothraki sea, a Daenerys from the past is through her present self guts, like in Interstellar?

>>23960943
>>23960871
So George told D&D about Hold the Door, but refused to give up Daenerys pooping and time traveling at the same time.
How could the ever compete?

For the people still eagerly waiting for his “Trump meltdown” blogpost, you can hold your horses.
George only just posted his recap of his London trip from back in July-August.
>https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

Even blogposts take him months to write.

>>23961447
>arya spinoff show
KEK and the fat faggot is exited about it what a god damn retard holy shit

>>23961447
Hippies were always cringe, but old hippies are something else. The ultimate manchildren. The very picture of arrested development.

>>23961447
He knows people are looking forward to him crashing out so he refuses to write it. Typical shiteating George

>>23961501
>Free looooove maaaaan!
>*gets cucked twice and cries about it forever*

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
Bloodraven and Littlefinger win
>worst possible ending?
Daenerys wins
>favorite theories?
Bolt-on
>most underrated character?
Jojen

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First compelling Pink Letter theory I've heard
The only hole in it is I'm not sure whether Theon knows Abel's identity as Mance Rayder

>>23959484
>best possible ending?
Truce with the Others similar to the first Long Night. Bran ascends the Iron Throne as all-knowing greenseer (not outwardly malevolent but still foreboding implications). Dany realizes she never actually wanted the throne and returns home to Pentos.
>worst possible ending?
All the main characters converging on Winterfell or Harrenhall for a common stand against the Others, including Jon and Tyrion riding dragons.
>favorite theories?
Grand northern conspiracy + night lamp theory.
>most underrated character?
Rolland Storm
Maester Cressen and Maester Pylos
Bronze Yohn Royce
Jacelyn Bywater
There are many actually.

>>23961566
>Daenerys wins
That's best though

I wrote the letter

>>23961447
>Arya spin-off show
Oh great and we get that random movie being made too. George is letting HBO turn his work into the MCU. My respect for him couldn’t be any lower.

>>23961727
>”If I was feeling really cynical I could always write some sword and sorcery thing, call it a trilogy, and never finish it.” -GRRM
He was always soulless

>>23958191
It only caused millions of innocent deaths, for the sake of a better world.

I fucking HATE causality for this reason.

Was there no other way? The natives of the new world were violent and stubborn.

>>23961820
It's not like the natives were living in peace and harmony to begin with. If left alone they would probably still be cannibalizing each other, like some remaining uncontacted tribes in the Amazonian forest today. Or worse, the mayans might have expanded their domain of sadism and kept inflicting horrors on smaller tribes. Any way you slice it, in the grand scheme of things, european colonizers were the best thing that could have happened to this continent and its people, even if the intentions of the colonizers weren't always perfectly altruistic.

Skinny Gurm looks just as bad as fat Gurm. Maybe worse.

>>23961909
I’m too used to him being a fat Santa. I’m kind of depressed now.

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>>23961945
Post your face when Gurm lives to reach 94 years old but STILL doesn't give us winds.

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>>23961952

Would Cat hate Jon as much if Jon was from before Ned marrying Catelyn? Or would she hate it more that Robb is younger than Jon?

>>23962212
There is no scenario in which Cat doesn't hate Jon. Even if Ned had told her "he's my sister's son with Rhaegar" she would hate him for potentially endangering her own family.

>>23962271
I wonder if her hatred for Jon is just a universal constant

>>23962212
>>23962271
>>23962429
maybe if Jon had been a girl, she'd be more indifferent, since femJon couldn't be a threat under normal circumstances.
Though maybe Cat would think that femJon's "treacherous bastard blood" would drive her to seduce Robb in order to gain power. She's come up with any reason to be against Jon, essentially

>>23962440
I still remember the massive kek of Catelyn suggesting some Royce as being Robb's heir because their grandma or some shit was a Stark. Like she was literally scraping the bottom of any fucking barrel to stop Jon being Lord of Winterfell.

>>23962456
Not even a Royce, but a Templeton. It's not even scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's scraping the underside of the barrel at that point lol
and even better, she expected Robb to agree and not bring up Jon immediately

realistically what would happen if
>the vale joins the war with the north early on
>robb keeps his marriage pact with the freys
>jaime is never freed
>theon is kept close so winterfell doesn't fall

>>23962507
oh and
>edmure doesn't ride out to meet the lannisters

>>23962507
>>23962509
Lannisters would -ACK

>>23961887
>If left alone they would probably still be cannibalizing each other
Anon they still are, they just do it with guns and rap.

>>23962507
Question is if the Winterfell, Eyrie, Twins Axis can beat the Rock, Highgarden, KL Axis in the long run.

If Tywin dies then Robb most likely would win. The North, Riverlands and the Vale secede from the kingdom, with North and Riverlands being ruled by the new Kings of Winter and with the Vale may or may not included. There would be a huge outrage over the Lannisters not actually having Arya in captivity, as a result, Jamie will not be released until Arya is found, but regardless, Sansa would be taken back to the North. Robb will likely come to blows with Stannis when he marches North, while the Lannisters try their best to take revenge by whatever means, while also trying to find Arya to free Jaime.

If Tywin isn't killed, then i'm not so sure.

>>23962507
Just the Vale forces would change the war for Robb. They'd have enough men to face Tywin head on or lay siege to Harrenhal, hence no need to lure him west.

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>>23962551
Funny. But El Salvador is now one of the safest countries in the world, and is one of the first to start a national reserve in bitcoin (so they are set to become trillionaires in a couple decades). Argentina has the first libertarian president in the world and its economy is growing fast. Uruguay and Chile were comfy, safe, chill countries for decades now. I'll take that over being under the ''kangz'', thank you. Now I can read Solzhenitsyn in a kindle at a beautiful beach while drinking coconut water instead of being dismembered alive.

>>23962487
I also like how Mya Stone instantly made Catelyn unhappy when Mya stated her full name. She gets so fucking triggered by bastards it's hilarious.

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Reminder that
>As far as succession law's concerned, the Estermonts have a stronger claim to the throne than Daenerys does, since the usurpation also recalculated the line of succession to stem from Robert, in which his uncle (Eldon Estermont) is closer than his second-cousin (Daenerys).
>Estermont has a turtle on its banner which is a reference to gurm's childhood activity of creating stories around his pet turtles where they were kings and princes and princesses interacting with one another. These interactions were claimed by him to be an inspiration for ASOIAF
>The current heir of house Estermont is called Aemon
The REAL, TRUE ending is Aemon Estermont reuniting Westeros under the mighty green flag of the turtle, the favoured animal and house of the unseen old god Gurm The Worm.
Believe it!

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>>23962792
Now I want to believe that.

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>>23962792
>since the usurpation also recalculated the line of succession to stem from Robert,
Incorrect.
The usurpation dishonoer baraturds and did not give them legitimacy.

Besides, it is well-known that baraturds claim to the throne was legitimized BECAUSE of their Targaryen blood, which GRRM specified, and for this reason any Targaryen, by name and by blood, comes BEFORE anyone else, meaning Daenerys is STILL the rightful heir and forever shall remain so.

>>23962924
>The usurpation dishonoer baraturds and did not give them legitimacy.
Nah, usurpation is based and legitimate if successful. See the creation of the IT (Aegon I usurping all 7 titles and demoting their former holders to Lords Paramount), see Aegon III, see Daeron I.

>>23962924
Bloodlines and succession lines are only relevant as a means of decision for stable peace times. At best they can be used as leverage to gain support from lords and help legitimize them in the eyes of the smallfolk and the faith. Successful usurpation trumps all of that and stablishes a new bloodline as the point of major reference in the absence of clear, unifying, unanimous power and support for an heir. Your argument is self-contradictory, since Targaryan rule itself came from brute force and usurpation.

>>23960871
I don' buy it...
But, the Undying basically tried to eat her soul or something like that. This kind of stuff is scary.

>>23962924
The law does not care about your feelings. Usurpation overwrites the succession and according to the law the Baratheons are just as legitimate as the Targaryens, as succinctly pointed out by >>23962931 as well.

BUT, succession laws can have special requirements, that is a good point, however, Robert would have been crowned king regardless of any blood connection, him having it merely helped with stability. But let's assume this special requirement is still in effect, then would Daenerys be the closest heir? No, still the Estermonts, as Eldon had a Valeryion ancestor (a grandmother iirc) and the Valeryions have been intermarrying with Targaryen women for centuries.

In any case, the closest heir is Stannis, then Shireen and third is Eldon, then Aemon (Eldon's son), then Alys (Aemon's son), then Lomas (Eldon's other son), then Andrew (Lomas's son) and only after him can you make an argument for Daenerys, but keep in mind that if the Estermonts were to actually inherit the throne, the succession would be recalculated AGAIN, and that would likely push Daenerys back even more, since Estermonts have more closer relatives still alive and due to past marriages some of them would likely also have a random Targ ancestress somewhere in their family tree, but then again, we know that that isn't a requirement anyway. So all in all, Dany IS a legitimate candidate for the throne, but is NOWHERE NEAR being the rightful heir.

>>23963070
>"the Valeryions have been intermarrying with Targaryen women for centuries."
Actually, i just realised this isn't true. it was the other way around. My mistake

In any case, if we take into consideration a blood requirement, Stannis and Shireen are still closer in line to the throne than Daenerys.
But since there is no requirement like this in actuality, my point stands that even the Estermonts are still closer than her.

>>23963070
Unironically surviving Blackfyres are more legit than her at this point.

>>23962931
>See the creation of the IT
Yes, creation, not usurpation.
Aegon did not dethrone anybody, he created his own.
>>23963015
>since Targaryan rule itself came from brute force and usurpation.
Except it isn't stated anywhere that Aegon 'usurped' something which he created in the first place. Targaryen rule itself is the only legitimate rule in the westerosi culture of ASOIAF universe.
>>23963070
>The law does not care about your feelings.
True, and Daenerys is the law currently.
>Usurpation overwrites the succession and according to the law
Source: my ass. Rest of so-called -argument' is disregarded for this obvious false premise fallacy.

>>23963106
>usurp 7 different, independent kingdoms
>merge it all into one
>see? now its not usurpation, it's ''creation''

By that logic you can usurp 7 different farms, unify them into a single territory and not face any repercussions because you ''created'' a new thing. Are you a woman, by any chance? This smells like womanlogic.

>cut off a kid’s balls and feed it to a blue fire
>CHILDREN of the forest stuff their holes with roots
>unironically sacrificing babies to an evil goat god

When did you realize that magic is a sicko

>>23963143
Magic is a dick. Marwyn says as much and no one bothers listening to him.

>>23963106
>"Source?"
The remaining Godwins after William had no sway and faded out from history, even though they were the founding house of England (cadet branch of the house of Wessex).
In 1308 when King Caroberto Anjou of Naples won the Hungarian throne in a 3-way pretender war between Wenceslav of Bohemia, Otto Wittelsbach of Bavaria and himself, it did not erase Wenceslav's or Otto's blood connection, yet they were no longer a part of the succession (only extremely distantly) as Caroberto became the new central point from which kingship was calculated
just to name two quick ones

Basically, my source is history, but I digress. I see you are too emotionally invested to see things objectively. Again, the law does not care about your feelings.
Are you by any chance Daenero's ghost writing to us from Targaryen heaven?

>>23963136
>usurp 7 different
False premise. Not even trying to prove and providing unrelated analogy.
>womanlogic
Yeeah, someone who's this naive abd ignorant of basic logical fallacies couldn't possibly be a man, you are a tranny.
>>23963163
>England
Not Westeros, try again.
The analogy isn't even valid, Targaryens built KL and IT. Baraturdfags sure are embarrassing.

The Black Monolith

>>23963245
reddit moment

Verification not required.

>>23963245
The ''Seven Kingdoms'' and the ''iron throne'' are political abstractions, you imbecile. Aegon the conqueror took the continent by force (except for Dorne), and then the Targaryans lost it by force. Daenarys has the birthright to die from diarrhea.

>>23962792
Isn't GRRM's personal sigil a turtle, as turtles are his favorite animals?

>>23963260
Yeah baraturds are plebbitors.
>>23963287
>Daenarys
>arys
SAAR

>>23963307
yes, he wears a turtle broch too i believe. it all goes back to his childhood pet turtles

Why disn't Preston stream yesterday? Is he still coping about the election? I was hoping to see his meltdown.

>>23963583
didn't*

>>23963260
What’s wrong with Reddit?

>>23963583
probably. He nuked his "stream for Kamala" after it was up for a few days but there could've been something sensitive in it, idk

How are you guys coping with the fact ole Gurm is going to write and make an Arya spinoff show before finishing Winds of Winter

>>23963861
Ah, I missed it. Was it a get out the vote stream or was he covering the election?

>>23962487
>It's not even scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's scraping the underside of the barrel at that point lol
>"the third son of a second cousin of a Templeton brother-in-law once married a Stark"
lmao stupid bitch.

>>23964375
Not as stupid as when she said the gods sent five direwolf pups.

>>23964375
>She sounded so cocky that Catelyn had to smile. “Do you have a name, child?”

“Mya Stone, if it please you, my lady,” the girl said.

It did not please her; it was an effort for Catelyn to keep the smile on her face. Stone was a bastard’s name in the Vale, as Snow was in the north, and Flowers in Highgarden; in each of the Seven Kingdoms, custom had fashioned a surname for children born with no names of their own. Catelyn had nothing against this girl, but suddenly she could not help but think of Ned’s bastard on the Wall, and the thought made her angry and guilty, both at once. She struggled to find words for a reply.
>Be Catelyn
>Hear bastard's name
>Go into thousand yard stare mode
Jesus fuck she's really easy to trigger ain't she

How differently does the story play out if Theon actually takes the black at the end of ACoK?

>>23964775
takes the black cock maybe, whiteboi

>>23964829
Yeah Asoiaf is dead

>>23964829
it's honestly terrifying how retarded of a faggot this poster is. he saw the word "black" and immediately started thinking of penises.

>>23964845
I'm just here to shitpost man

>>23964775
At that point in the story, he'd be still be a great asset to the Watch, but Jon would probably try to constantly goad him into disobeying an order so he can execute him, even if only subconsciously.
And if Theon tries to tell Jon that he didn't actually kill Bran and Rickon, Jon would genuinely not believe him.

>>23964911
Nah he'd cling to the possibility of his brothers being alive, especially since he knows it was Summer who rescued him.

>>23964930
Yeah, you're right, I kinda forgot about that part. He'd probably still hate Theon for killing two random children and burning Winterfell though.

>>23958407
>So basically its ok to play god in order to fulfil prophecy for the greater good while starting war of conquest in an entire continent with your demon lizards
Notice the show had Arya kill the night king and end the long night. Targ shits did all this to be saviour and then didn't end up saving anyone. The wars, the marriages of alliance and power grabs all for nothing just for their own egos and god complexes

>>23959890

What a whore. Only a disgusting slut should show herself naked

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i don't like beric being swapped for stoneheart off"screen"
i dont know what i think about stoneheart in general, do we really so many characters

>>23964947
need so many*

>>23964947
Beric was fading away anyways, although it would've been cool to see him become an empty husk without personality, just waddling back and forth, killing attacking anything he sees with his flaming sword, like Gwyn.
But that's just one cool moment and that's it, Lady Stoneheart is still capable to move the plot forward

>>23965003
If only GRRM was capable of moving the plot forward...

>>23964940
Didn't D&D admit in an interview that they made Arya kill the NK just for subversion of expectations? Because Jon doing it would feel ''cliché'' or something? I doubt that came from GRRM.

>>23964947
I really like Beric, he's a refreshingly original take on the Robin Hood archetype. But he's been resurrected so much that him dying has lost any meaning, which is something i could actually feel from his character too, like he wanted to stay dead but kept getting resurrected only to die again horribly. Stoneheart finally gave him his well-deserved rest. It also ushers in a new era for the brotherhood, one that wouldn't have made much sense under Beric's leadership without him becoming a soulless husk, which in my opinion would've robbed him from a hero's death that he had in the actual story (he fulfilled the unknown purpose that kept him alive through everything while also managing to make life better for a war-torn populace)

>>23958141
cant unsee now

>all the black stone mentions relate to the deep sea, fishy rape raids, and all surviving remnants of this race are literal part fish people/"humans" terrified of the water

Why the fuck do people think the great empire of the dawn was a human empire?
The Yi-Tish legends are clearly meant to be purely ironic

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>>23965441
>Why the fuck do people think the great empire of the dawn was a human empire?
Cause they aren't describe as fish people, cause men had already spread accross the Essos and Westeros before the Long Night.

>>23960017
Man I remember Hannibal. That series was fucking gruesome and now thinking back, I shouldn't have been watching that when I was in my le depressed phase. Still a good show up to season 2, though

>>23964829
Ay yo you finna bout to get busted gay boi. We dont do none that gay shi here bitch ass get out here fore I whoop yo ass nigga can't take the bbc

>>23965449
>Cause they aren't describe as fish people

Are you fucking blind to the text or something. What the fuck. Literally NONE of what it said about what came before the Valyrians is pointing to a human race or culture or civilization.

Toad isle and the thousand isles and etc literally point to some rapey fish people, and they STILL exist apparently.

>>23965441
>>23965552
Go back to your containment streams David

>>23965552
The First conquered Westeros way before the rise of Valyria so why couldn't there have been an human empireon in the far east of Essos before the Freehold?

>>23964930
>>23964911
He would also know the secret passage of Winterfell, so rescuing fArya would have been very easy.

>>23964940
>The wars, the marriages of alliance and power grabs all for nothing just for their own egos and god complexes
So all of human history? lmao also I'm pretty sure any ruling dynasty in history has claimed to be exceptional for one reason or another.

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Oh you thought George was going to spend his last years locking himself into his study and writing books for his nerds?
And not getting wine and dined by HBO producers who send hot actresses his way and allow him to indulge in his Targaryen anime fan-fiction?

Think again scrub.

>>23966139
>Oh you thought George was going to spend his last years locking himself into his study and writing books for his nerds?
If he had any self-respect and gave a shit about his legacy, yes. But he doesn't so I hope he chokes on some filet mignon.

Writing 30 minutes a day until the Winds of Winter comes out, or until I have written an entire fantasy book, challenge starts today. I'm at 2 pages.

>>23966139
>Targaryen
Words cannot describe how much I hate these inbred fucks.

>>23966378
Based. Godspeed anon, I think you'll beat the fat fuck!

>>23962924
dragon lady sex

>>23966425
thankfully they get genocided and their bloodline ends, leaving the based Northman to become the new ruling class

I honestly think George is spending most of his writing effort on the blogs. He is still working through his vacation back in August.

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>>23963583
I think Preston is either worried about getting fired, or is going to change jobs out of some protest against the Trump administration.

>>23966139
You make him sound based.

I wish he would just admit that he's not interested in finishing the series. It'd sting but there's nothing wrong with that.
But this shit he's been pulling for the last decade just straight up hurts..

>>23966719
He can’t do that. I think he realizes that it’s much better to die with your work unfinished, while you still working on it, so people can build you up as this “what could have been” author. Where he’s mythologized as this tragic figure and all his adoring fans would tell that Winds and Dream, had he been given time to finish them, would have made ASOIAF one of the greatest series of all time.

Meanwhile admitting that he isn’t interested in finishing them will just make him the subject of mockery and he’ll be remembered as that author who was too lazy to finish his own masterpiece.
Just like how releasing a half-baked Winds and Dream isn’t a viable option either, since the series’ ending that people build up in their heads will probably be better than anything he delivers. So it’s in his best interest to let people convince themselves that Winds and Dream would have been some of the best books of all time and a masterstroke of an ending to this saga.

I’ve become so cynical about this guy.

>>23966792
He’s coping hard if he thinks people will give a shit a decade after he dies leaving it unfinished

>>23966378
share your progress anon, curious to read what you're cooking up

>>23966857
Why do you think that?

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>Language is hard. This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Martin can say that Bran became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Martin doesn’t ask the question: How was High Valyrian conjugated? Does the pluperfect tense of Bravosi derive from the suffix? How did dragons understand the verb “dracarys”? And what about all those lost Westerosi languages?

>>23966139
Is this 'movie' an alternative ending or just continuation of the trainwreck?
>>23966425
Overly emotional low IQ peasant

>>23966980
>Overly emotional low IQ
...but enough about House Targaryen.

>>23967005
>but enough about House Targaryen.
Why, don't like talking about your own house, inbred tard?

>>23966425
Based. Only weak, submissive, immoral people worship Targaryens because of their beauty and apparent strength, despite them being slavers, despots, sadistic, retarded demon worshipers. These are the same people that would worship Stalin or Hitler in different times.

>>23967050
>inbred tard
Yes, that does describe the average Targaryen!

>>23967078
I strongly disagree. Specifically, Stalin, Hitler, Kim Jong Un, Zodiac Killer and Osama Bin Laden put together are still miles better than Targaryens. It's way more reasonable and acceptable to worship any of these or all of them at once, than to find Targs sympathetic or heroic.

>>23967113
You might have a point there.

>>23967005
Nah you’re thinking of the starks.

>>23966974
martin's got his autistic virgin basement-dwelling nerd conlanger slave doing all that for him

Is he releasing the book yet?

>>23967398
The question we should be asking is, will he allow someone else to finish the books after his death?

>>23967463
no

>>23967463
he can't do shit after he's dead, question is whoever gets the rights to his unfinished works will
1. allow one of gurm's writer buddies/apprentices to finish the books,
2. just sit on it forever or
3. sell it to the highest bidder
these are the only three options and until we get there they have an equal chance of happening

>>23967227
Building the wall, Winterfell and Storm's End, marrying the daughters of your vanquished enemies so you get their cool warg powers, and surviving for thousands of years in a harsh land by doing shit like piping hot spring water through the walls of your home are not signs of low iq.

>>23967588
That's what I'm asking - who gets the rights to the books and what will he ask them to do. Ideally someone close to him is given his notes and outlines and is able to conclude the story.

His wife will follow his will and destroy his manuscripts, but either Linda or Elio will leak the chapters in their possession on the internet a couple years after Gurm's death.

>>23959890
>I'm Spanish
>born 1 November 1984 (age 40) London, England
Just add her to the list of traitors.

>>23967657
Rolling up to a mad kings castle with barely any men and demanding the prince, telling your enemy that you know about their incest secret, taking the son of the most powerful and vindictive lord of the land without thinking, cutting off the head of one of your most loyal bannermen and still trusting a nasty and honorless old lord after breaking an oath you made to him says other wise.

>>23965602
David Lightbringer believes it’s not fish people, though. He believes it was some glorious not!Chinese dragon rider society.
>>23965693
The first men were literally primitive. The world book even says that there’s barely any terrestrial evidence for an empire that conquered anything before Valyria. All of the black stone predating Valyria is, well, sourced to COASTS, or former COASTS.

You’d have to be an idiot to think whoever predated the Valyrians were human, or surfacers. It’s literally implying they came from the sea. They likely conquered shit beneath the waves, not land. They only ever raped and attacked and built cities around the coasts.

Book literacy is a problem it seems.

>>23967668
It will be decided in his will. Either his wife or one of his apprentices who've already been helping him with notes and stuff for years. We will only know when the will is opened and who knows maybe he specifically asks for the series not to be finished by anyone, that could happen too. Maybe the person he gives it to will just be stumped and not do anything with it out of fear of not living up to the name.
Perhaps all that will happen is his notes will be released after X years of his death and that's it. We may even live to see what he intended around the time of his death

Basically in short, we have no clue. No one does, but him.

>>23967750
no one cares about your monster rape fantasy, go back to reading hentai, faggot
the reason why people are rejecting your shitty fanfiction is not because it's completely unreasonable, but because it's RETARDED, GAY and most importantly BORING and IRRELEVANT
shut the fuck up for the love of god jesus christ dude. Every single thread, every single asoiaf-related general one of you rape fantasy fuckers copy pastes the exact same "why do people think GGOTD weren't fishy rapists!?!?!" bullcrap
WE GET IT! WE JUST DON'T GIVE A SHIT! NO ONE DOES BUT YOU AND DAVID COCKBINGER

Verification not required.

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moments in ASOIAF you know GRRM wanked off to?

>>23967769
Dany getting rubbed out by one of her handmaidens is an obvious one.

Dany seems so used up by this point she's completely unsexy to me. Repulsive, even.

>>23967778
she's like what, 16 in the books now? And already roastie mode

>>23967724
All of that culminates in Brandon Stark being the supreme ruler of the realm. The wolves always win in the long run.

>>23967782
Roast Speedrun between Dany and Arianne, who's winning?

>>23967803
Arianne is definitely much dumber and fits the ditzy slut archetype more. I was going to say that Dany has more daddy issues (has she ever been attracted to a man that wasn’t twice her age?), but then I remembered that Arianne wanted to fuck her uncle from the moment she could get horny.

>>23967804
you know if it was Show Jorah with Book Dany he'd actually have a chance. Iain Glenn is actually good looking while Book Jorah is wider and hairier. Show Jorah is silver fox plus his fucking voice is golden.

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holy shit this book is so fucking bad, literally nothing happens
Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords were the peak of low fantasy literature and the level dropped so much in the next book
I have no idea why some people are still waiting for Winds of Winter, the fat bastard is obviously not writing anything because he got lost in all the plots he opened in CoK & SoS and have no idea what to do next

>>23967804
Arianne can't help but play 'marry, fuck, kill' in her mind every time she enters a room full of strangers. Her first question is ''could I seduce him?''. At least Dany has the decency to wait until night time to think about how she would give up everything for mercenary cock.

>>23967803
>Arianne
Gave virginity to piss dad off

Fucked "I am of the night"

Fucked Arys and almost immediately after he dies she moves onto Balon Swann

She is awful

>>23967827
Not to mention how she completely writes off her brother because he isn’t a tall, hot stud that she can get horny to.

>>23967827
>manipulates and breaks a man's spirit so hard he commits suicide by axe to be free of his internal conflicts
>all because of daddy issues and jealousy of her own brother which never did anything wrong
>leans absolutely nothing, will probably repeat the same mistakes with fAegon
>Aerys Oakwho?

>>23967804
>>23967825
>>23967827
>>23967829
>>23967835
guys, guys.. fellas. listen
you might not believe me when i see this
but i can fix her
i know, i know. but you just have to trust me and in my incredible ability of wielding my giant penis.
it is all for the good of the realm.

>>23967884
Sorry but Arianne is for small, graceful penis only, you brute.

My dad works at HBO and he told me the new GoT movie is actually going to be a faithful adaptation of 'A Caution for Young Girls' by Lady Coryanne Wylde.

>>23967907
Genuinely the only possible outcome where I would forgive GRRM for letting himself get distracted by yet another HBO production

>>23967829
Arianne herself is short so she'd doom her sons to be Manlets

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>>23967829
That's on George more than Arianne. He loves dunking on Quentyn.

>>23968059
The fuck are you on about? Gurm is dunking on Dany there. Barristan sees right through her: despite everything she's just a silly, horny teenager girl deep down.

>>23968065
But was it necessary to point out how Quentyn isn't attractive?

>>23968095
Yes… Barristan is musing that Dany would have probably considered his proposal seriously if Quentyn was attractive and gave her pussy tingles. That Dany is still governed by her impulses and horniness on a lot of things.
Dany is getting a lot more flak on this page than Quentyn.

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>>23968095
He describes Quentyn as plain, not ugly. He thinks highly of him on the qualities that actually matter, but knows Dany is a foolish girl that wants a GIGACHAD to make her wet, not the sensible, responsible, faithful guy that would give her the allegiance she so desperately needs in Westeros.

>>23968102
>>23968111
yeah I don't know how you could read the 2nd paragraph without realizing that it's Dany getting criticized here

>Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?

I honestly can't tell if Catelyn is being incredibly based or cringe here.

>>23968102
>>23968111
>>23968118
Quentyn is dismissed as a low value male and then burnt to a crisp while Dany continues on as le mother of dragons while being a favorite of George. Any flak she got there is meaningless.

>>23968126
>favorite of George
>stops writing right after the scene where she is having a diarrhea episode in the middle of nowhere

>>23968126
Dany continues to shit her guts out in the middle of the desert while Quentyn is alive™ and well. Even if he finished the series Dany would go full Targ and be killed like a rabid dog behind the iron throne, like the little bitch she is.

>>23968130
That'd be a real women moment, actually.

>fuck up an entire continent's economic system
>have every nation around you want to destroy you
>get btfo by every political "ally"
>fly away on le dragon
>shit water uncontrollably in the middle of fucking nowhere
>refuses to elaborate further

Dany truly is one of the characters

>>23968132
I can smell the cope off this post.

Being a Danyfag is a perpetual humiliation ritual.

Is Young Griff fire or mud?

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>book jorah it's understandable that Dany doesn't want him as he's stocky, hair, pretty ugly overall
>show jorah is literal silver fox mode with chad voice and fine wine levels of aging
Come the fuck on, we're supposed to believe the older show Dany doesn't find him attractive? He's too ugly for her apparently?

>>23967724
>cutting off the head of one of your most loyal bannermen
ahh yes, the """loyal""" bannerman that disobeyed your orders and killed your hostages (and the guards)
seriously there was no choice other than cutting his head off, he even sent his men out to find jaime and abandon robb before he died

>>23968219
this is a problem with most of the characters in the show, most of them are meant to be ugly as fuck but they hire peoole like peter dinklage who is way too handsome to play tyrion

>>23968210
>>23968161
Both characters love nigger dikc. Read Martin's blog entries on the Basilisk isles.

>>23968262
>Brienne is mannish and ugly
>gwendoline christie who modelled
>Tyrion is hideous and uncanny
>Peter Dinklage the 9/10 for a little person
I get Hollywood never casts legitimately ugly looking people but jesus christ they could at least do the makeup to make them look less pretty.

>>23968375
>do the makeup to make them look less pretty.
They had a perfect opportunity to do this with Tyrion when got cut across the face and they could’ve solved the Peter Dinklage being too attractive by giving him a horrid scar.

But instead they gave him the classic cool scar and even going a step further by having characters like Margarey say he looks better with the scar.

>>23968496
Brienne could've also gotten a nasty scar or something during her battles (which she almost never wears a helmet during).

>>23958133
Is dany and the dothraki westeros’ blacked?

>>23966719
Grrm will die and news will be spread after his death that he left 3 books of asoiaf left unfinished (as if he started lol) and someone else will do the work and publish later on. so I pray that GRRM feast on lots of sweet cakes and smoke and drink uncontrollably just so the world can get rid of him.

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>>23961952

What if Darkstar has been repeating the words to House Dayne this whole time and their motto really is "I am of the Night".

>>23967769

Tyrion and Tysha sex scenes in A Clash of Kings

>Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork.
Why?

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R8 this passage of Hermione vs Jaime
>Jaime lowered his visor in preparation. A girl, not even a woman grown yet. He smiled beneath the lion's golden maw. This would be easy

>The man waved the flag. In less than half a heartbeat Jaime was charging. The girl was pointing a wooden stick at her. Useless, Jaime thought. Like nipples on a breastplate.

>But then she uttered, "Petrificus Totalus!" Jaime felt his entire body seize and stiffen. With all his might he tried to force himself, but he budged not even an inch.

>Jaime however found he could still move his lips somewhat. "How...I have armour....Valyrian steel" he sputtered.

>The girl smiled. "I have something more important. Knowledge. Oh and this." She pulled out a Hugo Award. Jaime felt a burning pain through him like nothing he felt before.

>>23968271
QRD?

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>>23968974

Where there some riverwoman who willing slept with Westermen and Northman? You know, getting pounded up and down while enjoying it?

I like multi-ethnicity sexual intercourse within the asoiaf universe.

>>23969393
>degenerate enjoys degeneracy

Who could have thought.

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>>23969444
Every Rhaenys in history has died gruesomely. Cursed name.

>>23969444
How prestigious is the National Intelligence department? Wary of going off-topic too much but I wonder if this is a really smart play on her part (Trump seems to be rewarding all the sycophants quite generously) or if she’s ‘tainted’ for the rest of her career.
Meanwhile that Director of Homeland Security pick… madone.

>>23969444
show a black-haired portrait of Rhaenys and remind everyone that Viserys was riding around on Balerion and you'll understand why she was the Queen who Never Was without resorting to sexism once

>>23969268
Why does he care about the Hugo Award so much?

twow in christmas?

>>23969503
Balerion was already old as fuck by then. I don't think that's the reason Rhaenys was the Queen Who Never Was.

>>23969570
Balerion may have been old, but his death was unexpected though, and probably caused by the maesters.

What is the one thing/person/event/whatever you'd change/remove from canon/add to canon/etc from the narrative in order to improve the overall quality of the books

>>23969672
Give Khal Drogo a micropenis

House Dayne
Their motto: For I am of the Night

Actually kind of fits now that I repeat it back to myself a couple times. Just how much of a meme house would this reduce them too

>>23969703
houses having mottos is so stupid, they're like high school sports teams

>>23969672
Give Khal Drogo a horsecock (as in an equine penis not just a really big cock)

>>23969672
Have Oberyn vanquish the Mountain, get Tywin's confession, and GTFO with the Imp. Would have been kino.

>>23969690
>>23969756
How big was he again in the books? 8 inches?
No wonder Dany is being driven insane.

>>23969672
Ned marries and has kids with Ashara.

>>23969672
Dance of the Dragons was pretty stupid, as in the extinction of dragons, is nonsense. Storming of the Dragonpit, the inability to breed more dragons etc. The only reason it even happened was that GRRM needed to kill off the dragons (to dethrone Targs eventually), hell it would make more sense if they "magically" died off rather than due to the stupdity of an entire house. Maester's theory is nonsense but I'll admit I'm not too versed into it.
So instead I would probably have, due to the environment, Targs becoming too soft and having no use for dragons etc. Dragons just simply wandering off. Maybe it doesn't sound great or logical, but neither does the canon.
This would essentially allow Daenerys to claim full grown dragons somewhere in Essos instead of hatchlings that take decades if not centuries to grow.

>>23969450
What? Why would you say that?

>>23969450
You are a racist incel.

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Dead garden

>>23969925
I bet you sleep with d*rnishmen, you slut.

>>23969927
You’re a fucking faggot dude

>>23969739
GRRM seems to agree considering he just kind of forgot about house words after the first couple of books.
I like house words though, personally.

>>23969739
I mean historically some families do have words. But it’s typically some variation on “honor and God” over and over. The words of the Coucy of Northern France are neat though: “roi ne suis, ne prince ne duc ne comte aussi; Je suis le sire de Coucy”. Or “King am I not, neither prince nor duke nor count as well; I am the sire of Coucy”.

Do you guys think Asshai/the Shadow in general will ever be important, or will it always just be a sort of background element of the worldbuilding that never actually has direct relevance to the main plot of the story?
I've wondered if the whole "Shadow" thing might have something to do with the Long Night.

>>23970395
Window dressing that was always meant to stay mysterious, just like Golden Empire of the Dawn, “black oily stone” references, etc. but some people are so mindbroken by the lack of content that they started crafting grandiose theories around them.

>>23970395
>4) What exactly are the Shadow Lands? Do any significant civilizations exist there, or are they simply a barren waste?
>Keep reading.
>https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P45
It's from 2002 so he might have change things since then but from the description that we got in TWOIAF I subscribe to the theory that it's the region where the Children come from

>>23970419
Keep reading? More like keep writing you lazy fuck.

>>23970419
If it was where the Children came from, something must have happened to it. I can't imagine the Children of the Forest originating in a land of darkness and evil.

>>23970419
That's from 2002 before all the bloat. He's changed his mind since then.

>Tad: Will we ever see Asshai or the Shadow?

>GRRM: You may hear about it and you may get flashback scenes from characters who have been there and you can puzzle it out on the internet. But I don’t know. I may return to write other stories set in this world. I want you to return to Osten Ard by the way. -SSM, Redwood City Signing: 27 July 2011

>Will we see Asshai?

>Only in flasback and memory, if at all. -SSM, Asshai.com Forum Chat: 27 July 2008

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>>23970504
>create a really interesting place set up to be some kind of lovecraftian magical nexus shrouded in darkness complete with a city so ancient nobody knows who built it, which is inhabited by sorcerers and worse
>mention it and reference it constantly
>even include a prophecy that would require a character to go there
>drop it ENTIRELY
BRAVO GURM!!!1!!11!

>>23970516
lorefaggots are blight upon storytelling
any original gem that gets remake is ruined by lore nerds who cannot write and instead show off their favourite headcanon on some obscure lore

new
>>23970681
>>23970681
>>23970681
>>23970681
>>23970681

>>23969856
>Maester's theory is nonsense
How? They had access to the dragon lairs, even and especially when the dragon is not at home at the moment. They could add alchemic reagents to the fodder, and poison the eggs. And the only man to ever see the parasitic fireworms endemic to post-Doom Valyria was Grand Maester Benifer, who was terrified and shaken by the experience, and had all of the abominations killed with ice water (honest, guvnor). Meaning that Maesters had exclusive access to a disease that specifically kills dragons and dragonblooded, and we only have their word that they did not save some to infect and weaken the living dragons.

And then there was Aegon III the Dragonbane sitting the Iron Throne, meaning that any such dragonkilling schemes would not have to stay hidden from their greatest logical opposition - the Targs themselves - but would likely be endorsed by the ruling king at the time. At the time of Aegon the Unhappy's crowning, literally the only people in the whole realm who did not want dragons extinct really really really bad were the Targs themselves, and they just fucking lucked out by being ruled by the one Targ who hated dragons more than anyone else. And Maesters were the ones that everyone would go to for knowledge and methodology on figuring out how to turn living dragons into dead ones, as well as access to lairs and eggs, all while remaining below notice.

Oh, and Marwyn flat out tells Sam that Maesters got dragons extinct.

>>23970471
>I can't imagine the Children of the Forest originating in a land of darkness and evil.
The mountains are so high that the land is plunged into darkness and its full of caves. This lack of light means that the fish are blind.

The Children live in caves, in total darkness, they can see in the dark. In ADWD, the river that flows through the cave is full of blind fish.

>>23970857
>The mountains are so high that the land is plunged into darkness
Anon, that's not how sunlight works

>>23970245
You’re a fucking retarded tr*nny whoreson

>>23969739
You’re just a boring peasant moron.