this thread will be a good thread

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>>24101228
Is it me or it just turns potentially interesting sentences into sanitized textbook ones?
I'm an ESL and
>The future of AI is about complimenting human potential
Is the kind of example sentences there were on our textbooks. I remember being around 13, we always used to ask our teacher if we really had to speak like that because it sounded so robotic.

Even if I don't like the initial sentence, I think at least
>Complimenting human potential, that is what AI is all about.
Sounds more interesting


>>24101252
sorry i ruined it

>>24100871
>>24100889
>>24100928
Thanks, bros. Guess I'm better off deciding on one or the other. Maybe I'll market the series as YA, at least until the characters reach adulthood and things get more complex, like Red Rising did with the first book. Or maybe I'll just go with adult from the outset since YA's pretty dominated by female authors and protagonists, and is allegedly tougher to market for self-publishing.

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>>24101253
It reminds me of those exercises too much lmao
>What did you have for dinner?
>I had chicken for dinner.
>Teach why can't we just say "chicken"?

Look at this shit, if this were an intro for a project proposal I would've rejected it by the second sentence

This isn't better than Word's grammar engine, at all.

>>24101253
It gives suggestions but you're free to ignore them. I know people got a little pissy about it previously but you can also consult AI to have it proofread your work. It can sometimes catch syntax and other issues that more simple tools might miss. Like Grammarly however, the best proofreading tool is yourself and ultimately you're the one who decides if your work is ready for consumption. Not counting a publisher of course, but I'm talking on a noncommercial level.

I might recommend reading books by your favorite authors and seeing how they compose sentences. Not to ape their style per se, but to see what they consider good grammar and integrate into your writing. Another option is to find someone who likes your work and have them proofread it. I had someone do that for me a few years ago.

I would like to think everyone for giving me advice regarding my hyper-activity on the previous, previous thread.
I'll make to sure to not delete any of my work, no matter how much the sadness hits.

>>24101288
ganbatte bpd manic depressive anon

Each morning I would meet with a couple of my colleagues at a diner in the city, and we would have breakfast together. After we had finished with our food, we would then need to take a small beetle shaped silver bus filled with other workers who had carpooled in from elsewhere.
“Put this on,” the driver instructed, handing me a piece of black cloth he had pulled from his pocket after he had flicked his cigarette onto the ground and stomped out the ashes with his shoe, gesturing me to take it from him.
It’s not like I had much of a choice in refusing instructions in the first place; any sign of disobedience for not complying with the company protocols would result in the termination of my contract.
I had found a suitable place near the back and slipped on the blindfold over my eyes. Once the bus was put into motion, the rest of the journey from here on out would be in total darkness. Back when I first started, I tried to make an estimation of what directions the driver was taking us in, attempting to conjure up the image of a mental road map in my mind, but eventually realised how futile it was and gave up in the end.

Greeting us after we had all gotten off of the bus in single file was by no means an all too familiar sight.

The airport loomed eerily against the vast, desolate expanse of the Mojave desert, its terminal a stark, brutalist structure that seemed out of place amidst the arid landscape. The runways stretch endlessly, cracked and faded, their edges obscured by the scorching heat rising from the ground. Above, the sky is an endless, oppressive gray, casting a dim light over the scene, while distant contorted and serrated mountains appeared like ghostly silhouettes on the horizon.

The air is thick with an unsettling stillness, broken only by the faint hum of distant aircraft engines. Few planes are visible, and those that are seem to glide through the air with an unnatural, mechanical precision, adding to the feeling that something isn’t quite right. The airport’s parking lot sits almost empty, apart from the few beetle like buses parked under the scorching sun, their surfaces glistening as if too hot to touch.

There were no markings anywhere to indicate any sort of identity or ownership on the small airport, but as employees, we all knew who the true face of the operation was pulling the strings. For us, it was our last connection with the outside world, a place where we could talk to beloved family members one last time or check up on news and emails before being disconnected from the rest of the world.

>>24101252

Yes

>>24101288

Good luck anon

Does anyone else notice that the weird trend of people reactionary and unnecessarily close-minded and harsh towards certain storytelling elements, tropes or concepts?
One of the biggest ones that I can think of is the concept of grey morality, people wanting stories to be mostly black and white with very little nuance. This is mostly blamed on stories such as A Song of Ice and Fire/Game Of Thrones.
Other one's that I constantly see being thrashed for no reason are:
>Humans are the real monsters
>Good or benevolent demons

>>24101309
When the times are hard, people start to miss the good old days when everything was better and clearer, except that was never true and they're too young to have even lived in those times.

>>24101309
no? what spaces are you in where this discourse is happening

>>24101361
Twitter, YouTube comments, I've even seen some people on Discord saying this.

>>24101309
I've seen some blame media (il)literacy and changes in attitude towards morality. we've also had several generations of grey/tragic/justified/misguided villains (many executed badly) so maybe it's just some flip-flopping overcorrection as well

>>24101309
>Humans are the real monsters
Some humans are monsters for sure. A similar statement like "All men are pigs" or "All women are thots" are generalizations people make to help cope with the fact they encountered bad humans and they project that bad experience across all humans. There are great women out there who would make fine mothers and hardworking men who would make good husbands but those people aren't exciting to comment on. The camera always settles on the Andrew Tate guys and Hawk Tuah girls because they're more entertaining and dramatic.
>Good or benevolent demons
There's the recent trend with anime where you see this a lot. It has more to do with things not translating correctly or carrying a different cultural context. Yōkai for instance encompasses a lot of supernatural Japanese shit but there's not a direct translation into English for that word. In a series like Inuyasha, everything is humans and Demons because the word "demon" is the closest term that makes sense, however, the word demon in the English context usually relates to Christian theology.

If you're talking about actual demons from hell being morally good, I've encountered some of that media. Typically the only people up in arms about it are religious fundamentalists.

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>>24101241
i want to share my
Archive of Our Own link, but I'm afraid I will be ignored or reported on the grounds of being a shill-spammer. How much is too much in terms of self-promotion?

>>24101392
We'll let you know. Feel free to post your link.

>>24101392
nobody gives two shits
spamming would be like idk making threads all the time

>>24101392
I'm now demanding to see it so it's no longer self-promotion

>>24101392
According to the OP, if you want to shill something or have someone critique a work, you should contain said work in one post at a time. I wouldn't worry about getting ignored. I didn't get any bites on my short story >>24100308.
It may not have been something anyone was interested in reading here. As much as I love monster girl media, not everyone else does.

Submitted another short story to another publisher. Wish me luck!

>>24101392
>ao3
bwo...
go ahead and share. so long as you have some discretion then it's fine
>>24101431
>40~ pages
I was going to check it out to pity but that's a pretty big ask

>>24101435
gl

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>>24101463
I know, it's a "short story". If you're not into monster girl media, I'd forgive you for giving it a pass. It was originally adopted from a long-form greentext.

The original concept was a very bog-standard "guy bullies monstergirl and said monstergirl ends up as his boss". I'd originally titled it as such when I first started writing but the more I wrote the more it transformed into something entirely different. I joked upon completion that I'd "subverted myself".

>>24101392
Just write the title, I'll find the link myself

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I believe that having a good protagonist is the most important aspect of having a good book. Are there any resources on how to write a good protagonist?

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>>24101309
Absolutely. My writer's workshop is being infested by people who took a few courses in writing from online places and shit, and they want to bring their theories into the workshop during critique. The problem is that while some people can actually take what they learned to help people, others are just pointing out tropes as a way to say someone is a shitty writer without bluntly telling them that, all so they can feel superior. Thing is that there are millions of writers, and plot points will inevitably be studied and categorized if you study the topic, just like how we studied chemistry and found all things are made of the same elements, or how we taxonomically categorized animals based on features and genetics. So yeah, I can see some tropes but if the writer isn't a complete retard the story is still compelling. But it is still fun to catch people writing about their barely disguised fetishes.

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I’ve realized that a lot of you have incredibly high standards. Which is perfectly fine, but I think all the people who have shared their work here and had it shat on relentlessly would be pleasantly surprised if they brought it to any normie writing group

>>24100579
They could at least tell me why they didn't want it and give me some feedback. As it is it was a huge waste of time

>>24101710
people don't get shat on for having bad writing. they get shat on for having a bad attitude
kinda calls your post into question desu senpai

>Nonhuman villain is extremely racist against humans, takes every opportunity to mock and demean main character for being a filthy monkey
>Same villain has a minor temper tantrum when his unusual scale color is mentioned, insisting that red scales are perfectly normal and don't make him any less of a fish
Is this too on the nose?

>>24101740
Doing so would expose them to legal liability.

>>24101749
yes
it could be funny depending on execution but how you explained it makes it seem way too obvious

>>24101241
Hi so I'm writing a poem. It's about countries remembering the harm they suffered but not the harm they inflicted. So far I have
>China (Dzungar Genocide, Partition of China)
>Korea (Rapes in Vietnam War, Colonization by Japan)
>Japan (invasion of Asia during WW2, atomic bombings)
>Vietnam (Viet Cong massacres, American massacres)
>India (Muslim and Sikh repression, British colonization)
>Britain (Irish famine, bombing during WW2)
>France (African colonization, Nazi occupation)
>Netherlands (Indonesian colonization, Nazi occupation)
>Spain (conquistadors invading, Napoleon massacring Madrid)
>Russia (invading neighbors, massive deaths during WW2)
What are some good African countries? I was going to do Rwanda but they have a memorial to the Rwandan genocide and I wanted a country that perpetrated a mass killing but doesn't talk much of it, instead remembering their own suffering

Excerpt. What do you guys think? How could this be improved, and what did this short passage make you feel?

https://pastebin.com/cUBHcc0r

>Finish short story yesterday
>None of my friends have read it yet
>Felt a little blown off
>In spite of this feel fantastic for finishing my story
>Woke up feeling the best I have in a long time
>Only needed 6 hours of sleep

Why did no one tell me that the writing process could be so fulfilling on it's own?

>>24101815
The inconsistent tense took me out of the thing already in the beginning. I skimmed forward to see some raving about faggots and closed the tab. I felt annoyed at this waste of my time, thought it was only less than 20 seconds. My time is so valuable, you couldn't make up for it by sitting 20 years in prison.

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>>24101815
That's a lot of commas, is it deliberate or just that you happen to write that way?
>Insert emoji
Going for the Honor Levy prose I see

I didn't hate the story though. Commas were just a lot. Also line 58 is no good. It's easy to tell who's talking howsoeverbeit. You probably don't need so many adverbs

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>>24101749
Is this your villain, anon?

>>24101951
Thanks for reading, Anon! This is my first attempt at something serious. And, yeah, the tense is indeed inconsistent. As for the commas, I think I tend to write like that, yes.

What else did you think? More specifically, the prose and the dialogue. My main struggle is describing things. I try to be vivid, but I feel like I either strike a perfect flat minimalist tone that's good enough or just something that's sloppy.

I have never read Honor Levy and I'm ESL BTW.

Why aren't there more books that are just a thousand pages of rambling? For how easy it is to sell writing nowadays, there isn't much creativity out there.

>>24101998
>For how easy it is to sell writing nowadays
lol
lmao

What sites should I be posting my writing on anons?

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>>24101627
You can't please everyone, so choose your audience. Then choose a protagonist with qualities that allow your readers to experience wish fulfillment. See chapter 7, section 4 ("How do you make a character fascinate your reader?") of picrel, and ignore the inevitable seethers unless they provide some actual useful advice.

>>24101998
Because most people don't want to read 1000 pages of rambling. Also the more pages the higher the printing costs and the higher you have to price the book to make any money. The max pages for an Amazon paperback allowed is 828 and if you were to price it at $20 you'd get $1.06 per sale.

>>24101975
>Line 29
>I swipe my finger to the next photo, only to get unnerved by my phone. It was ringing.
Okay anon, why do YOU think I'm singling this one out?

The dialogue is quite normal. Like I mentioned it's easy to tell who's who which is good. They're both distinct. Maybe dial it back with the volume of hehehe hahah hmmmm? etcetc? I'm not sure, depends on your intentions. Is there going to be more?

>>24102042
You are singling it out because of the sudden change in tense. Saw it when I was rereading, but got lazy and just copiedand pasted. My mistake. I think I shouldn't have started that last sentence, and just connected it to the previous one with a comma.

Yeah, there will be more,. It's a new part for the first rough draft I wrote around six months ago. It's short, around 20k words.

>>24101288
Based. Mania/depression is an artistic trait.

>>24101745
Why lie?

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Wing I bought your book. I'm going to open it up when it arrives and we're all going to make fun of it.

>>24101627
Just make a character you find interesting. Take some time out to think about this character, do not force them. Write down notes on this character, but be willing to abandon your notes if they don't serve you when you have that fire burning inside driving you to pen brilliance. Sometimes you're just laying down bricks and it leads into something unexpected that works out better than what you initially wanted to make. What's important is that you like your character.

>>24102004
literotica

https://hastebin.com/share/qizoredeca.vbnet
tried giving a little bit of ending to the short story thingy from yesterday
does this seem decentish to anyone
it's based on xenogears characters so it might not make sense outside of that context

>>24101773
Liberia being a nation of liberated slaves but treating the indigenous Africans in their territory poorly

The zulus of South Africa bitching about Apartheid and the war with the Afrikaners while a) being invaders themselves and b) practicing aggressively racist politics in modern times

The Congolese suffering under the Belgians but enslaving the Pygmies

Egypt attacking Israel then acting like the victim of the retaliation

>>24101241
How is this dialogue:

>"Wasn't sure we would make it this time..." Angul grunted as he scrambled out of the bloody ground.
>"We never do. That's the thrill of it," his brother answered staring at the mighty beast lying between them, or what was left of it.
>"Brother, I can't.... I can't keep doing...this." Angul sighed.
>"Um? What do you even mean?"
>"The life of thrill. I kinda want a legacy..."
>"Brother, the dead creatures we leave behind are our—"
>"They are not! One day the world has forgotten the long-gone monsters that once plagued it," Angul firmly interrupted.
>"Perhaps... That is for the better..."
>"Either way, it's a fool's errand. There are too many to get rid of."
>...
>"Then, we will die trying!"
>"You can waste your life if you want, I won't."
>"Oh? What else would you even do? WHAT IS THERE FOR US?"
>"A realm, and people to govern, dear brothers," said a strange old man who appeared next to Dan out of nowhere.

The goal here is to seek a hook, I could make it more subtle. But I like to think it's at least semi-natural, and economic with its time usage.
Hopefully, it doesn't come off as "As you know". Maybe it's melodramatic as well, but I like good drama I want to evoke emotions.

>>24102186
I like it, but I'm not a great judge of quality.

>>24101463
>bwo
the fuck this acronym mean?

>>24102028
Anon, books like that make you into a formulaic writer.

>>24102216
It's not an acronym. It's babyspeak of brother.

>chapter one: mission assigned, group created, plot revealed
>chapter two: traveling, monsters, mistakes
>chapter three: new city, new people, mazes and plotting
>chapter four: dinner with the king, shouting, anger
>chapter five: nightlife, mischief, drunken promises,
And just like that I have seventy pages where nothing has happened.

>>24102236
Some authors write like that where it's all build up until the middle or latter half of the book before things really happen. As long as it pays off, it's fine. If it all leads to nothing, then that author clearly has other goals in mind.

>>24102220
You can work within a structure and still be creative

>>24102220
is non-formulaic writing even a thing

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>Go to paste bin
>Try to enter short story so I can post it here.
>It says it's filters will only allow it to be private

what do?

>>24102104
thank you for your purchase

>>24102258
moreso in litfic, extremely rare in genre fic, which is why mingling is bad for this thread

>>24102265
use privatebin

>>24102220
No book can "make" you anything, unless you're an NPC who lacks the ability to think for yourself. Also, learning the rules is key to knowing how and when to break them. And I couldn't help but notice that you didn't counter with any actual useful advice...which is exactly what I said would happen.

>>24102276
Oh, here we go with your precious litfic. As if it's any better.

Lord Giovanni Ivenobrain, resplendent in the finest silks from the Orient, flopped haughtily into a large, cushioned, award-winning chair in the stately parlor. "Oh, woe is me!" he gasped. "It's so difficult being a rich, lazy layabout! Why, I don't know whether to play croquet or harass the milkmaid."
Lady Silentbottom looked on, her face an inscrutable puzzle of long-forgotten secrets. "I do so concur with your misery, Lord Ivenobrain," she pouted. "Why, I could just kill my handmaidens for being prettier than me. How dare they be ten years younger!" She straightened her blouse and set her face firmly. "I'll just have them apply more makeup to my face for the next hour. And meanwhile," she added, "why doesn't thou spanketh thy monkey in thy study, while perusing any number of ribald portraits by famous Baroque artists?"
Lord Ivenobrain slapped his crotch as he stood up. "By gum, I'll do just that! Until the morrow, Lady Silentbottom!"

https://privatebin.net/?5570176995cb7f19#76zkPGmnGzdjWKqGvXvUYymrFgEvZyLuUroMnvURN71o

Thanks to anon for helping me figure where to put this so it's not considered advertising.

I finished this yesterday, and I was hoping for some thoughts on it. Story's name is "Aporia".

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posted excerpt in prev thread, hoped that this would provide more context to the scene. how does the tone feel? what feelings does the text convey as it is. it's a bit hard to explain full context, so i'm just looking for a general read

>>24102446
whatever you're trying to do, it's taking too long (pacing)

>>24102288
>the rules
You're an idiot
>actual useful advice
Read many (good) books to get a sense of how they did things, then try it for yourself and keep trying until it works. This is the only method. There is no special technique for being a writer. Books like Selling Writer are, at best, useless snake oil and, at worst, detrimental to your creative development.

>>24101253
i don't know why you would waste your time with this shit if you already can write a decent sentence (in other words if you're not retarded). you are just creating more work for yourself.

btw it's complement

>>24101710
>I think all the people who have shared their work here and had it shat on relentlessly would be pleasantly surprised if they brought it to any normie writing group
Normalfags think its bad but will pretend its good to not hurt your feelings.

>>24102577
I call this one undermining the competition actually.

>>24102486
what would you suggest cutting down in order to make it read better?

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>>24101710
>mfw my work either gets ignored or reluctantly complimented when I post it

>>24102224
>babyspeak
Is this a gay thing?

>>24102589
It's more of a no teeth thing. Quite mutual to all that have teeth.

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>>24102526
>hurr durr read books to figure out how they did it
That's like saying you can figure out a recipe by what your taste buds tell you. Art conceals art, in writing as elsewhere. The skill of a skilled writer tricks you into thinking that there is no skill.
>useless snake oil
You may as well brand higher education as useless snake oil, while you're at it. Also, his readers disagree with your conclusion. In the end, you have yet to provide any useful advice, as I predicted.

>>24102619
>you have yet to provide any useful advice
So I'm just like that book

>>24102635
>no u
You've never even read the book. You're a classic Dunning-Kruger sufferer, too stupid to know how stupid you are.

Trying to write a fanfic that starts out in the ruins of a temple in a jungle, but I'm shit at writing scenery and atmosphere. Time to look at Indiana Jones novelizations ig

>>24102678
>talk about temperature
>talk about humidity
>talk about clouds
>talk about bugs
>talk about animals
>talk about plants
>talk about condition of ruins
>talk about sounds
>throw in some measurements
>let people know for sure it's the amazon forest and not the tongass forest
Done. Just got you 20 pages. If you really want to ham it in, drop a backstory where it flashbacks back to university before archaeology research started.

Reading books on writing is a waste of time. Shakespeare will never be made by the study of Shakespeare.

Shakespeare is a hack. No one remembers the bad plays.

>>24102709
>is
Anon, I got some bad news for you

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>>24102700
And yet, somehow, MFA programs exist. But hey, anon here says they're all useless, and he knows EVERYTHING!

>>24102689
Okay, slowly but surely getting there.
>[Protagonist] moved slowly, taking care not to splash too loudly as she made her way through the murky water that swamped the temple ruins. Sunlight spilled in through the vine-strewn cracks in the stone walls and roof, reflecting off the water in streaks of gold and silver.

>>24102700
>>24102713
it's true though. the only way to improve writing is by writing.

>>24102753
Writing isn't drone material. You have to think.

Mushrooms, coke and weed are useless writing drugs
Coffee and zyn and cigarettes, all the way

All that matters to me is that a sober writer can writer as well as a non-sober writer.

>>24102178
Thanks! I didn't even know that Pygmies were enslaved. Reading about them is really fucked up, jesus they were cannibalized.

I'm going to write a book that uses far more telling than showing. Showing is slow, meandering, and a waste of time. I don't need my MC to hem, hum, and haw each time something happens.

>Patience had no place in MC's heart.
vs
>MC's fingers tapped rapidly on his lap. He fidgeted around and looked forward and backwards waiting for the doctor to arrive.

>>24102871
If you want to know what a telling over showing book is like, read Japanese light novels where characters will monologue endlessly.

>>24102678
Link descriptions to how characters feel about said descriptions, or add some parallel to the descriptions and the character.

It doesn't matter if the jungle is hot and full of dense foliage and there are flies buzzing. Readers already know what "jungle" means. But you could easily make it relevant by creating reactions to said descriptions that establish characters. Example:
>characters are marching in a line
>the first character is looking around uneasily, he knows something is out there that everyone else doesn't
>second is using his machete to hack away at bugs
>third stumbles over the underbrush
>fourth fans self with a map
>fifth is smiling contentedly, despite his sweat, and laughs at others in the group when they fail to keep pace
And so on. Sometimes locations can be characters, but other times locations reveal things about characters. Unless this jungle is something special, you should focus on the latter.

>>24102583
it was abstract, so it's hard to say, but it felt like multiple paragraphs portraying the same idea

>>24102889
Atmosphere and mood are real. Coherence and interconnecting the story elements with the manner of prose and the depictions is clever and worthwhile but not the ultimate purpose of the prose
>Readers already know what "jungle" means
Readers already can identify the majority of symbols but that doesn't mean a writer shouldn't examine those symbols and put effort into communicating them
There are times when a scene should be only nominally mentioned but this is something to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Definitely not a broad truth

>>24101309
Can you give a good reason to support themes of humans being the real monsters or demons being capable of benevolence? Why is the concept of gray morality important?

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>>24103027
Resonates with people. In much the same way, the theme of "struggling to overcome" resonates with people. That's why Berserk resonates with guys a lot. Guts is their spirit animal.
>"He's just like me!"
Fish out of water is a good narrative theme because it puts the character in the same shoes as the reader.
>"What is going on in this world?"
Both the MC and the person looking over their shoulders are asking that question so it's easier to align themselves with the MC, even if the MC makes choices they wouldn't.

>>24103042
If the idea of humans being the real monsters or demons being capable of benevolence resonates with certain people, maybe they're not actually people but monsters or demons.

>>24102941
Read my last sentence. Not every single location needs max effort mood and atmosphere. You should instead focus on writing the scene from the opposite direction. Especially if you are like >>24102678 and suck at scenery and atmosphere. If you try writing it based on character reactions to various details about the setting, mood and atmosphere will come along with informing the reader about the characters.

>>24102619
Nah, that anon has a point. While I do think some books about the trade can be helpful like On Writing or The Emotion Thesaurus, you'll learn more about writing by reading and analyzing what works and what doesn't. Writers who don't read widely will likely fail.

>>24103053
I was leaning more toward the grey morality and how people can see themes in fiction and relate them to real-life experiences.
>maybe they're not actually people but monsters or demons.
Rather, they see the world in those terms.
For "humans being the real monsters"
>Mexican cartel face-skinning videos, Child rape dungeons, war, divorce court, an uncaring boss that demands you to work weekends when he knows you play D&D on that night
We see humans doing terrible shit all the time and sometimes encounter bad humans ourselves so it's easy to relate the idea that "humans are the real monsters" when it's primarily humans we see being monstrous. For demons being capable of benevolence
>War vets opening up rescue shelters for retired k-9 units, an alcoholic parent who still loves their children and tries to support them even if they can't support themselves and push others away, a gang member who tries to help the community he originally destroyed when they were younger
We don't have demons in our reality, so that leans more into themes of redemption when it comes to our reality but the idea isn't wholly dissimilar. The reader can relate to it as demons are usually put in some position where redemption would seem impossible. Circle back around to struggle being something one can relate to. Guts is a real demon when he wants to be but through the course of the story, you see how he learns to care about people other than himself and his sole desire for revenge. Even after enduring soul-crushing hardship he still manages to not only endure but retain some humanity. That really resonates with people.

tl;dr- getting the reader to emphasize with your character can go a long way to helping them give a shit about the world you're crafting since the character they care about lives there.

>>24101309
I wouldn't say I'm closed off to the idea, but it does annoy me a lot when it's shoehorned in. There was also a problem a while back when it was all that was coming out, and a lot of it was bad. So imagine you're reading a story and you've been watching the big bad evil guys do genocide and have evil smiles and say "fuck niggers" (and the writer is jewish so you know this is them trying to signal to you) and whoever is writing is using every tool in their power to say "this guy is evil" and then they start trying to tell me "actually these guys aren't evil".

You can't just 180 on me without showing me anything.

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>>24103091
*empathize
Spell check won't catch the words you don't misspell. Whoops.

The hard truth? Humans aren't monsters or demons. Humans are humans. Humans came up with scapegoat words to make it seem like humans have a boogeyman when there isn't any. More stories need to understand this theme. As it is right now, humans are barely examined through the eyes of the modern day reader who is much more aware of the world than any writing within the past ten thousand years.

>>24103091
Using your example of Guts, the appeal is being able to empathize with him, correct? So if one is reading a story about say, a pedophile being the protagonist, and this resonates with the reader, this says the reader leans towards being a pedophile, correct? Why is it important to have works that appeal to pedophiles? Isn't it more important to have works that appeal to non-pedophiles?

And to speak metaphysically, I have never met a human, only other creatures who appear to be sentient. They could be an actual demon, for all I know. I think it's more important to have stories with black-and-white morality because that appeals to people and people only, not potential demons or monsters.

>>24103115
>Why is it important to have works that appeal to pedophiles? Isn't it more important to have works that appeal to non-pedophiles?
I didn't advocate for that. I was focused on themes of redemption and struggle.
Feel free to ask about jobless reincarnation on /a/ though, I'm sure that'll stimulate some interesting pro and anti-Pedo arguments.
>I think it's more important to have stories with black-and-white morality because that appeals to people and people only, not potential demons or monsters.
Read whatever you like and what resonates with you then.

>>24103115
Imagine being rhetorically out maneuvered by an /a/ poster
Embarrassing

>>24103133
If I replaced "pedophile" with "demon", would your deflection be "demons don't exist"? I don't know nor care what you're advocating for or not. If a work resonates with bad people, is it important to have that work? Would it be less or more important to have works that resonate with good people? Would they be equally important and if so, why?

The original post made the claim that the themes of humans being the real monsters or demons being capable of benevolence are being thrashed for "no reason". I asked if there was a good reason to purport these themes and you said it was because they resonate with people. So if a reader "thrashes" on these themes because black-and-white morality resonates with them, is that still "no reason"? If a reader "thrashes" on these themes, isn't it a given that it's because black-and-white morality resonates with them, which is automatically a reason, if not a good one? So when does a reader actually thrash on these themes for "no reason"? When they're having a schizo freakout session on their keyboard? Lol

>>24103146
Rhetoric, riiight.

>>24101309
What actually grinds my gears is "X race is Y morality". It takes away almost all conflict, as you know how the story plays out right away. Even Tolkien didn't actually do this, if you read him correctly.
>Goblins/Orcs in the Hobbit are introduced as assholes, but what ultimately sets them off is one of the swords being literally "i fugged ur mum", which is a completely reasonable reaction in that context
>Sauron and the Ring are objectively bad, but their power is seductive; a careless reader could themselves start thinking "why don't you just use the ring against Sauron or to get out of a situation?"
A lot of people confuse their D&D campaign with the actual inspirational material.

>>24103186
The conflict is in whether the good man gets back up and gets back up in time when he stumbles. Good can lose, evil can win; why is gray morality necessary for this?

>>24103186
I like how you don't mention at all what materials Tolkien was inspired by.

>>24103194
It's not a matter of grey morality, it's a matter of moral possibility. If every demon is a mustache twirling villain, then mustache twirling demons lose their interest. You need a certain sense of attraction towards the antagonistic forces, otherwise characters should logically nope out every time they see something with horns and a pitchfork.

>>24103199
>um did you know Tolkien really liked Beowulf :^)
Okay, let's talk LOTR inspirational texts. Loki wasn't unambiguously evil either, neither were Giants (more anti-civilization than 'evil'), and the key problem with Grendel, His Mother, and the Dragon were they were physical threats rather than moral ones. And in Christian mythos, even Lucifer is occasionally given at least some degree of justifiable umbrage to rationalize his fall.

Unambiguous unrationalized "evil" is boring. Not because it doesn't happen, but because it's not a very complicated story.

Input on my writing? First time.
Like this, Anon. Follow my lead
>They found the girl. Case closed. Or is it? Rumors of trafficking. You checked. Deep down, something about this that changed you--made you step back into the fire light. This abandoned disco glittering with broken disco balls. Lying in the snow, wallowing people you never knew masked in malt liquor and menthol cigarettes. Pathetic work. But get back up, you're still alive--for now. Step back onto the dance floor. Roll the fucking dice. One. More. Time. There's something bigger, hungrier than you. And you know it. You really fucked up.
---
>Smoking and drinking in the bathroom again? Peaceful. There's a woman at work. She makes you nervous. Intrigued. Longing? Nice girl, not your type. But who says that your girlfriend is your type? Be the polygamist love machine you always were. Swing, baby, swing. Ask her out. Swagger in with the confidence of a professional alcoholic, and kiss her. You caught feelings. Slick your hair back and don't be too drunk. Roll. The fucking. Dice.
--
>An argument. This fucking tango you do nightly. She grabs you, screaming. You can tell she doesn't approve of your choices. She doesn't approve of your alcoholic consumption, yet she feeds it to you. Now you're in a car You hate cars, not even because you can't drive but because you're terrified. Almost as much as women terrify you. And off you go, back to faded neon signs, homeless--home. This is your city. Puke outside of the liquor store. You own this. This is real and *this* is yours and yours alone. Somewhere along the line, in-between being screamed at, cigarettes, alcoholic induced retrograde amnesia, missing persons, and fleeting longing for love, your mind finds ease. You're in your element, this is *your* dance. *Your* life. Get back to fucking work.
---
>Standing on your balcony that overlooks one armed bandits, you take a deep drag of your cigarette. Whiskey and malt liquor burn your esophagus. You go back in. Your girlfriend suddenly wants to be pleasant for once. She lays her head on your leg. When she speaks, you can feel the vibrations. Purring almost. No. More beer, more cigarettes, more music. Don't let her take this from you.
---
>Standing beneath the streaks of light. Step out, do not be afraid. The snow become glittering specks in the light. Inhale. Exhale. Still alive. Hurt. But alive. A swig of malt liquor, another drag. Exhale. You can do this. The snow still looks beautiful, light dancing off the pristine white flakes. Roll the dice one more time. *Breathe...* You're going to make it, detective. Don't let *her* tell you what to do. Go for it. Jump off the high dive and say, "Fuck off," in a cool gravelly tone that only years of reckless abandon can provide. Ignore them. Dance like your fucking life depends on it, motherfucker. Have relationships. Be the person *you* always were. Back on your feet. Steady yourself. Breathe, detective. Just breathe... Back to work.
---

>>24103236
Missing words, punctuation errors, hand running twice, didn't read further.

>>24103239
It reads like you're being tased.

>>24103255
Tasers aren't very fun.

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>>24101241
My story and characters are completely out of control and doing what they want

>>24101224
I was trying to help you since you came on here and asked 'how do I write a litrpg' lmao.
I was literally telling you to forget about writing slop because it sounds like you want to write a real book. Some people would take that as a compliment. But whatever, maybe slop is for you.

Is there a market for generic fantasy coomerslop? I genuinely kind of want to just write books called like "Fantasy Blowjob Stories" as an anthology of blowjob scenes.

>>24103329
>asked 'how do I write a litrpg' lmao.
No, I didn't. My only question was, will the spergs get mad if I don't bring up the stat screens all the time.
>I was trying to help
How did you think making up weird lies and twisting my words would accomplish that? You can't be serious. Too late to try to save face.

>>24103329
dude's clearly a tool. just ignore him

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>daydream about writing story for a long time
>actually write story
>start hating it a few hundred words in
>want to abandon whole thing

>>24103571
You wont write gud if you don't write. So dont be so hard on yourself. Gotta instead lock in and produce the slop.

This is my first attempt at writing anything, PLUS I'm an ESL. Subject yourself to my writing if you have the guts for it. And tell me what's wrong with it. "It's shit" doesn't help much

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oYe1iNQH11Ua4yNtCRe4lxivvUI5MMTO/view?usp=sharing

>>24103645
I struggled following along with the story you were trying to tell. The descriptions you gave of / character interactions felt flat, shallow and basic (ESL i know). I find the use of fantasy cross scifi wording is clunky and takes away from the scene.

The dialogue is basic and doesnt really feel like a conversation.

The first couple of paragraphs setting the scene make no sense, it felt disjointed and out of place. I couldnt make sense of where the character was. It felt like they were walking along in some holo-deck esque scene that was changing between random locations.

What ever you were picturing in your head is not translating to paper.

Good first effort, the formatting wasnt ass.

>>24103027
Just GenX cynicism and irony. They've been doing it for decades and, for some reason, still think they're clever.

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tfw I actually got inspired by other fiction again and am starting to recapture that spark of wanting to write things I enjoy

>>24103211
I think morality and banality are two unrelated things. Your apprehension can still apply if every villain has some unfortunate circumstance driving their motivations or whatever.

I'm ESL and writing a book in English, should I use the Imperial system when dealing with height/distance stuff?

>>24103882
I hate these people.

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I'm writing fantasy and I want to properly express the power something and the effect it has on our everyman MC.
If there has not been such small divergences from normal narrative form, is it permissible to deviate and express things poetically?
"At once the dragon appeared, diving from the clouds and letting loose a sound so powerful it demands explanation; X"
where X is the explanation.
Does it depend on how the explanation is written? Am I overthinking this and just retarded?

>>24103882
They really are permateens, completely incapable of growing or reflecting.

>>24103980
Yes, we use it in everyday speech. If you need help, we can probably help (we do a lot of casual approximations and exaggerations when we talk)

>>24104124
It's ok to change writing style a bit during important moments. Happens all the time is great for emphasis if done well.

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>>24104150
Thanks, fren

Have any of you who've self-published taken the wide approach over just Amazon? Wondering if stuff like IngramSpark and Draft2Digital to get onto other sites/potentially in stores are worth it, or just going exclusive with KDP Select.

>>24102755
And if you need an MFA course or a shitty book to tell you how to think you're ngmi

>>24102713
>scams exist, therefore they aren't scams
I don't see your logic

>>24104252
MFAs in creative writing are notorious for being glorified networking events
in almost any other field it'd be laughable to compare reading self help to academic study but creative writing is actually one where they're about par

>>24103632
Best advice ITT. The cure for writer's block is to allow yourself to write garbage. After that you can't call it writer's block anymore, you have to call it what it is: procrastination.

>>24104268
You think college MFA programs are scams?
>>24104280
Networking is extremely important for authors if they want to get published. Colleges, in general, are fertile places for networking with potential future colleagues. Calling them "scams" comes across as jealousy to me.

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>Writing a romance
>MC and love interest are only actually together for 13 chapters out of 40 (together meaning in the same room)
What do you think? Do they need more time together?

Why are so many ESLs here writing in English? Is there any other example but Nabokov who actually did it well?

>>24104401
Joseph Conrad?

>>24103571
You should start with a short story or poetry first. Don't try to force your writing either. If something feels wrong then it probably is. Go with the path of least resistance.

>>24104379
That kind of depends on what they do in those 13 chapters, dumbass

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thoughts? feelings?

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Show me what you're working on... Anons...

>>24104528
Nifty words but basically pointless. It's not bad. It's just kind of... Well nothing happens and it's a lot of nothing too. Also you seem to jump perspectives a fair amount. Are you aware of that? Personally I don't mind head hopping but if you're going to trad pub they have autism about that sort of thing...

Is she cute? (Important)
What kind of hunter? Is that explained?

I really liked "Individual unknown".
On the flip side "Finding there was nothing worthwhile" is a lot, and adds little.

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>>24104528
I think your intentions were to express a kind of somber loneliness and isolation between these two characters which is representational of more general urban alienation and nihilism.

I didn't like the writing. Your word choice and imagery consistently veers toward the abstract and cliche which lost my attention pretty quickly. Personally I hate the pathetic fallacy so seeing shit like "clothes were drunk" is an instant drop for me.

See pic related.

>>24104528
Clothes can't get drunk.
>Perhaps there was nothing at all to say
Or perhaps there was nothing at all to read in this pompous collection of words devoid of a grander scheme. That's to say it's boring because I can't tell what's going on. Is this an excerpt or just a small writing exercise?

>>24104593
That's a nice pic, what's it from?

>>24104593
I wonder how many people would be able to extract the left from the right on their own
a pessimistic part of me wants to say not most people

>>24104607
I think all active, comprehending readers carry an innate understanding of subtext regardless of their ability to distill that information into words

>>24104596
Just a small writing exercise to get a feel for two new characters I'm working on. Might be why there's not really a comprehensible "scheme" to it; even still I feel like it doesn't excuse that nobody can deduce a point from it. I'll work on it

>>24104528
it feels almost like if a stronger writer got fed through AI. it's sterile and a bit stylistically linear. lacks precision. the 'clothes were drunk' thing is getting pointed out and that's a good example. I don't even think the metaphor is strictly bad, just under supported. the imagery of liquor soaked clothing which bunches and sags like the lean and stumble of a drunkard immediately interests me but it isn't developed or supported
keep at it. you'll figure it out

>>24104634
Precision is probably the most common critique I get. I kind of just word vomit on the page with a vague idea of what I want to do; maybe outlining would help this in some regard? Only problem is I have no idea where to start with that

>>24104642
word vomit is a valid method but you have to follow it up with editing
silly bimbo

>>24104647
Silly me :P

>>24104634
Can you elaborate with the AI part? What about it reads as strong

>>24104630
Protip: give your characters something to do. Re-reading your piece it just feels like every action screams "help me, I have nothing worth doing or saying"

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This one anon has received more feedback in 20 minutes than most anons ever see. I hope he's aware of this little factoid.

>>24104688
I think the positive impression comes from the manner in which the atmosphere is built. the AI part has to do with how the sentence structure is predictable and repetitive
>>24104712
a simple 300 word vignette has a lower bar to reading than 10 pages of schizo babble

>>24103571
This is a common experience. You just have to write more. The difference between what we imagine and what we can actually put on paper is confronting and only gets better with practice.

>>24104712
They can smell I'm a woman. must be the pointless flowery prose

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>>24104724
That would make sense given that you only responded to the two anons that had negative things to say and ignored the two with compliments. Classic f*moid move right there.

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we posting vignettes? I love writing vignettes

>>24104724
would you fuck me if I asked nicely?

is my post too XY coded for (you)s

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>input female writer's shipping fanfiction into gender guesser
>gender guesser says male
>put my cool fight scenes into gender guesser
>guesser says female

Is your writing style less masculine than a landwhale's gothic vampire shipping fanfiction?
https://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php

>>24104957
>Lyrics, lists, poems, and prose are special writing styles. This tool is unlikely to classify these texts correctly

How do authors who are women compare in quality of writing to authors who are men? Surely in a creative field such as writing, there would be equality.

>>24104698
what if I don't want my characters doing anything?

>>24104964
women are better writers than men because women read more and write more.

>>24105059
then you don't want readers either

>>24104724
post tits or gtfo

>>24104957
Might as well flip a coin. There's no fucking "female writing" and "male writing"

>>24105085
it worked for Virginia Woolf and she still has readers 100+ years later.

How do I know if I should give up?

I finally finished outlining my novel. I've written about 25% of it so far but now I've got an overall plot outline, chapter-to-chapter summary and the complete arcs of the 2 protagonists.

Only thing that's left for me to iron out is the timeframe of the story and some characterization issues but I'll get on that as I'm writing.

>>24105166
You should never give up.

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I admire anons who post their excepts, the opposite of nogunz/gamez/etc.
You're gonna make it, anons

How long should my excepts be if I want people to read them and just want critique on dialogue/prose and not plot?

Here's a short-ish excerpt of my latest story that's still in the making, taken from the middle of a chapter. I appreciate any feedback, mostly about the prose/dialogue.

>Genre: Low Fantasy/Historical Fiction
>Words: 2.7k

Carl stepped into the outer courtyard, greeted by the sight of a lush garden alive with pink geraniums, scrolled boxwood, hedges, and several withered trees that were waiting their chance to blossom. Trellises draped with flowering vines threw their intricate patterns across the flagstone pavement, serving as benches for the able patients or workers willing to take the air.

The main path led straight to the front entrance of Viridian, but Carl veered off, cutting through the garden to the eastern ward. An eerie silence dominated the courtyard, and he could feel the stony gaze of the garden’s numerous statues and busts on his back. There was naught to be heard but the faint rustle of leaves and the soft crunch of his boots against gravel and stone.

The second and third-floor windows shone no light and a bone-deep chill coursed through Carl. How many tormented souls have passed beyond these walls? The very air in this place is tainted! he thought and picked up his pace.

His steps carried him to a row of wooden doors on his left. He stopped at the third one, and found it locked, as he expected. He knocked insistently on the shuttered window beside it and waited. After some moments, the shutters clicked open and revealed the face a middle-aged, haggard man behind iron bars.

He lifted an oil lantern, its light falling on the long folds of his white robes and casting sharp lines on his sleep-deprived, disheveled visage.

“If it’s medical care you need, off to the front doors you go,” the man said, his tone brusque. “There should be a woman by the foyer that can help you. Goodnight,” he moved to close the window, but Carl chimed in.

“Wait! I need to see Burge. Last I heard, he’s still the head surgeon here. It’s urgent.”

The man’s eyes narrowed in suspicion. “Who do you think you are, demanding to see Master Burge at this unholy hour? Begone, or I’ll call the guards!”

“Wait!” Carl said again, this time reaching for his purse. He pulled out a silver direnne from within and hovered it around the iron bars. “I’m an old friend of his. Tell him the Titan is here to reclaim a favor, and come the dawn you might be one silver richer.”

The man paused and seemed to consider that for a moment. “I’ll see what I can do,” he said at last before slamming the window shut. His short, dragging feet and grunts soon gave away to silence.

Carl hated waiting in such a dreary place, and each passing minute seemed like an hour to him. The lifeless courtyard all around him appeared dimmer, the moonlight being drowned by the walls. Every shadow deepened, every sound grew more ominous. The trees pressed close and a sudden gust came howling from the north, ruffling his long, dark hair like a lion’s mane.

>>24105269
I'm going to be savage. Your description of the garden is stilted and purple. It's overly technical and precise in its detail and has no feeling or rhythm or beauty to it. The first sentence is essentially a checklist of things mashed together so nothing can breathe, bookended with character action and blossoms that dont exist. You'd be better off taking a large step back and getting the immediate feeling of the place.

Your prose jumps back and forth between being archaic and being modern, with things like "naught but" and "pick up the pace," which is extremely annoying. It's a little pretentious but mostly it sounds like you're trying to immitate some style poorly.

The dialog sounds like Skyrim or Morrowind.

>>24105269
the first paragraph is fine. The only problem is that it sets a scene of a daytime tranquil garden that is immediately discarded.
I'd hardly call it "purple" or "technical" or "precise"... sentence structure is straight forward and vocabulary is basic so I don't know what he's complaining about there
the dialog is indeed the weakest part

>>24105269
Pretty basic. Dialogue is pretty fine for Fantasy standards, certainly better than Sanderson lol

What are your thoughts on creating fictional lingo or using unusual idioms in fantasy/sci-fi stories to spice up dialogue?

I'm thinking of Don Quixote with all the Spanish idioms translated to English. Something of that sort

how would you go about describing the world through the pov of a character that has never experienced it before? ie a homunculus or something that just spontaneously spawned in

>>24105532
use your brain?

>>24104528
Why did you suddently switch to present tense in the last line?

>>24105552
i don’t want to use it wrong or cringily so that’s why am asking retard

>>24105602
>calls others retards
>can't figure out his own story
Just give up.

>>24104401
They probably speak languages with not that many speakers. So the market is awful. I'm an ESL too but mine is widespread so I can just write in my native language

>>24105530
It's so minor, I don't even really care. Maybe fans do. It neither hurts it or helps it from my eyes. That is unless you go into pages and pages of explanations, then it should be relevant.

>>24105530
it's great. The world should have its own idioms that the reader can infer what the idiom means. Their own curse words, foods, naming conventions, etc. it's the minor details that make for good world building.

That said, I rather a fantasy character named Bo'bvisak be named Bob, than read Bo'bvisak every single paragraph

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>>24105858
>That said, I rather a fantasy character named Bo'bvisak be named Bob, than read Bo'bvisak every single paragraph
Y-yeah, what kind of fantasy author wouod do that to his readers?

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anyone use code editors for their writing ?

Was inspired by Ol George's obsession with wordstar / DOS and really giving Neovim a try to capture the same vibe

>>24105096
>>24104957
I read the paper this page links to, interesting stuff for anyone looking to play with the apparent gender of their text. I wrote up these schizo notes for anyone who wants to decode them

|Female Wriitng|
"Involved"

Word choice:
+pronouns {primarily forms of I, you and she}
(send the message that the identity of the "thing" involved is known to the reader)
(make explicit the gender of the "thing")
+Analytic negation (I am not happy [v. synthetic negation "I am unhappy"])
+Contractions ("do not" "don't")
+Present-tense verbs

Subject matter: relationships
+Compliments, apologies
+Tag questions
+Attention to the affective function of conversation
+Linguistic devices that solidify relationships
Encode the speaker/writer and the listener/reader specifically into the discourse

|Male Writing|
"Informational"

Word choice:
+noun specifiers [determiners {a, the, that, these}, quantifiers {one, two, more, some}]
(provide information about "things" that the writer assumes the reader does not know)
+Male third-person pronouns (he, him)
+Its (both impersonal (as opposed to his and her) and is a type of specifier)
+Post-head noun modification with an of phrase (“garden of roses”)
+Prepositions
In fiction: +plural first-person pronouns

Subject matter: objects
Encode classes rather than individualized entities
Reduce or eliminate encoding of the speaker/writer and of the listener/reader into the discourse
In fiction: +Quantify things by using cardinal numbers

>>24105898
Yeah, it's okay. There's usually formatting plugins if you care about that. Overall, the best thing is probably that you can customize a code editor easier than you can any form of writing application.

>>24105903
I just like file universality , using org or markdown rather than some proprietary file type makes it so easy to transfer shit wherever.

>>24105096
You're wrong but those detectors are only slightly more effective than random chance

>>24105228
>critique on dialogue/prose and not plot
All three are intimately intertwined

>>24105907
That is true, I didn't think about it because I don't use proprietary file types if I can avoid it.

>>24101241
---- Solaria ----
9701
9000K

I find that kind of blue in my kitchen
Rather sweet, rather like sky you'd see at 80,000 feet,

Popsicle surreal in frostiness,
As snow or light

Like it can't ever be,
As orchestras can be only

in backyards royal or desultory beyond belief.

https://litter.catbox.moe/kwx2lr.pdf
6-page dystopic screenplay 'bout some poor kid.
Are you well-read enough to tell where I stole the idea from?

>>24105925
desultory indeed

>>24105935
You better believe it.

>>24105925
made me smile

Hi anons! Would you like me to compliment your work? I seldom find anything I truly dislike about another's writing, but I can try to critique too (I wouldn't place much value on it, though. I'm probably not as well read or as good a writer as some others here)

>>24105961
i dont have anything to share but this is a really nice thing to do anon , god bless

>>24105976
I just noticed that people don't get that a lot on this thread. Of course it's fine if you're *looking* for critique, but receiving only negative or obligatorily positive remarks about your work can be demoralizing. It always motivates me to write when I have someone praise what I'm doing correctly. inb4 i get zipbombed

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Chapter 4 of my necromancer genre fiction is out! Have about 67 pages now, never thought I'd get this far.
https://pastebin.com/u/Bornunderablacksun
Linktree/bornunderablacksun

>>24105961
>The knight, he walk into the cave real slow, his armor making noises like metal scraping on rocks, and the sword in his hand, it was shiny but not like really shiny, more like kinda shiny with some dirt on it from before. The air was thick, so thick he could almost feel it in his mouth, like hot and weird, and it smelled like fire but also something else he couldn’t quite name, like oldness and danger. Ahead, in the deep dark, there was eyes—big ones, glowing gold, staring at him like they could see everything about him, even the parts he didn’t want no one to know. He opened his mouth to say something brave, like a hero in a story, but his voice got stuck in his throat and what came out was more like a grunt. The ground under him rumbled, or maybe it was the dragon breathing, or maybe it was something else entirely, but either way, it was bad, and he didn’t know what to do next except hold the sword tighter and hope it wouldn’t be too embarrassing when he died.

>>24101366
So where some of the dumbest people on the planet congregate to talk shit on the internet. That's your problem right there.

>>24106020
You certainly have a good grasp of what style you want to convey.

>>24105228
Choose sections, however long they are, that you think are your best. You might get some commentary you weren't looking for, but most of it will probably concern the feature that sticks out the most.

>>24106107
maybe you should stick to negativity

>>24105961
Hey, can you take a look at >>24105269 ?

Thanks a lot

>>24105930
>click baiting on a bhutanese bamboo shearing forum

>>24105898
> Neovim
make sure you use goyo, pencil and the other plugins for writing

>>24106003
>5 star review swapping
>5 star rating own story
>4 different upload platforms
>lazy thread post every chapter
The soundcloud rapper of writing

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A piece I just finished tonight. Excerpt and link:

James Carver’s hands shook even before he touched the cigarette holder. His whole existence felt like a single missed step on a narrow staircase, everything tilting out of balance. He had spent the morning staring at his father’s old ledger, the thick one reeking of chemical fixatives, where genealogical charts for “fake slaves” lay next to sketches of counterfeit restoration processes. He had tried to count how many illusions were stuffed in those pages: the fictional diaries, the composite photographs, the columns of invented Bureau logs. And of course, the final sin—this monstrous phantom called Solomon Furmann, soon to be displayed on the new twenty-dollar bill.

He was sure he had read the same lines a hundred times, all these instructions for inverting the black-money scam: bleaching crisp paper to appear centuries old, painting the corners with a dark moldy wash, forging water damage. Solomon Furmann’s entire legend was pinned together with those methods, an entire historical persona funded by illusions. Only now, the Treasury Department planned to enshrine Furmann’s face on currency. James’s father had died for that lie, though whether he was murdered or simply consumed by his own mania, James could no longer guess.

The father’s final words had been about teeth. Teeth: that irreducible anchor of identity. Remove them, and you remove the proof. James had never questioned why his father’s coffin arrived sealed. At the funeral, the pallbearers stumbled, and he had seen that black mouth, an abyss with no teeth. Everyone pretended not to notice, or they assumed it was some medical necessity. But James felt an unspeakable dread, something that insisted: “Count the teeth.

https://publish.obsidian.md/argentina/All+Thirty-Two%2C+All+Archived

>>24106003
>be fantasy writer
>brandon sanderson told you to start in the middle, so you start from the most boring part
>blitzkrieg your reader with a platoon of made-up names straight off the bat
>as they reel, call in indirect fire support: paragraph after paragraph of mind-numbing, uninspired locale description
>finish them off with rapid fire of WOOORLDBUILDING
>no survivors, area clear
>move onto the next doorstopper
>nothing of interest actually happened this entire time

>>24106479
I don't mind Sanderson. He makes sure amateur writers stay shit and makes the marketplace less competitive.

>>24106523
his dominance also insulates the market from new ideas and lowers the bar of expectations for both writers and readers, which makes it harder to breach into the marketplace if you're unwilling to abide by the standards he's set
I'm sure eventually a counter culture of a new kind of slop will emerge. sustained creative homogeneity always results in people getting tired and wanting something new. right now if you want to write fantasy you either live under the shadow of sanderson or you accept obscurity

>>24105908
>hurr durr i don't understand how machine learnin works, therefore it's little better than random chance
the absolute state of 4chan

>>24106598
>AI bootlicker can't be bothered even the bare minimum of effort but feels entitled to participation
lazy retard of ludokino

>>24106479
I love sandersons lectures! It's so useful

>>24106479
Vhaerin, Askor and Rhuiph came to a halt in their feltchkabiner and surveyed the moment.
"So that just happened," said Vhaein, coquettishly as ever.
"Yes," said Askor sternly, as she was wont.
"But what now?" said Rhuiph, worried like always.
They thought about those who they had lost, those who might still be out there; Lince, Stereloque, Chungin, Aohpiln, Sweckler and the rest.
The cold blorth wind blew over the group. They looked out over what was left of Sretchia, their swamp homeland, home to so many great kingdoms, bound to each other by the insect mood board that only six elders gifted with the sacred minglebums working in unison could divine.
"My magic's run out," said Askor, her fingers running over her minglebum like a wet page running over the feelings of a sad cat.
"You've forgotten? No worries, let me explain how your minglebum and the wider magic system works," said Vhaein.

Why am I not that creative when my mind comes up withnthe craziest stories during a 45 minute nap in dreams

>>24106624
>noooo you can't wield AI as a tool you have to base some stupid belief system around it
people like you will get replaced by AI because you're barely sentient as it is. better sign up to be a social-justice "protestor"

>>24106573
>sustained creative homogeneity always results in people getting tired and wanting something new
Agree with this. I think people already want something new. Marvelslop is already on its way out, and Sando is just the literary equivalent.
>right now if you want to write fantasy you either live under the shadow of sanderson or you accept obscurity
I don't agree with this. If anything, emulating sandoslop is going to get you thrown in the do-not-read pile immediately, because he's already got a stranglehold on it.

I still don't understand the hype. I've tried too many of his books but his prose is godawful.

>>24106634
I feel a sudden, mysterious urge to give you money. Do you accept paypal?

>>24106664
>you're barely sentient as it is
the irony
the tool posted isn't machine learning you brain dead retard. I don't give a shit what AI is to you or why you feel the need to get argumentative over dumb shit and try to force it into conversations
no one gives a shit bro

>>24106660
what you give attention to grows
if you want to become more creative you must create

>>24106660
Keep a dream journal by your bedside and write these dreams down while they're still fresh in your memory when you wake up.

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>>24106753
>hurr durr i know how web services are implemented internally, and it's definitely not ML-based
what's the weather like up your own ass?

>>24106817
it's algorithmic. if you actually went to the page you can even navigate to the papers that he based the tool on
not only that but it was made almost 2 decades ago
idiot

>>24106752
Yes you may give me money. I've just started the 12-book saga of Sloplandia, and should be finished by this evening.

>>24105961
Do you want to read 125k words?

>>24105961
tell me im pretty >>24104803

>>24106387
It’s a hard knock life

>>24106479
Yes. This is more or less what I did, I love Sanderson

>>24106871
You only write the first six parts and then anxiety over a sick mother forces you to stop and you just can't find the time or right energy to work and the medical bills are piling up and you kind of need more money and feel really bad about asking, but of course I understand, that's life, that could happen to anyone and especially to creatives with an online following, but you're strong and will get through this and how much do you need

I will say this thoughever, I started off my fantasy story the way it is because of Malazan, not Sanderson. I prefer being thrown into a living world than copying Tolkien and the hero’s journey and have the protagonist be a nobody sheepherder in the two rivers. Even as a child I would always skip the first book of any series. Percy Jackson, Deltora Quest, didn’t matter

>>24106236
>t. not well-read enough

I'm creating a setting of not-Earth and changing certain peoples to fantasy races with the implications that go along with it (depending on how skilled I am). Do you think sub-Saharan Africans would fit as undead? The more I think about it, the more it seems perfect...

Rolling black thunder,
An open vein from the earth;
They plead to this mother,
limply step in front of her search;
But they cannot sway her,
her instinct, they cannot convince;
And, wherever her baby was, I paw
for neither have mewed since.

I see their warm vent,
I see the rats they used to hunt;
And he, that stinking wet,
has not dried quite yet;
Once crashing under his neighbor,
he ripples from the long-past danger;
This humble bubbler, who knew too well,
the peril his kin might compel;
He will dry by Monday, if not by morn;
So this evening he may dribble, not to pour.

I can't help but feel that every action in the humanized puddle is...artless. Unfitting of the opening line, itself an obvious imitation. "dribble?" Are you a child?

>>24106915
I am a bored uni student, sure. Once I get through looking at everything everyone else sent, though.

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Question for people who know a bit about publishing:

If I post a piece on 4chan for critique, does that render it unpublishable? First of all, in my previous publishing experience I've found that a lot of publications only want pieces that have never been published before, so would me posting it on 4chan count as "publication"?
Secondly, could I get into shit and be called a plagiarist if I do this because I can't prove that I was the one who made the original anon post and didn't just steal it from someone?
I really want to post some poems here for critique because I have nobody else, but I'm scared it'll mean I can never do anything else with them.

>>24107460
>poems
Absolutely no one gives a single fuck

>>24107460
if it's not associated with an actual publication then they're not likely to care
just share your shit in a screenshot or a timed bin

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This guy’s stuff is actually decent, as shocking as that may seem from the covers

>>24107576
is this an elaborate shill campaign
you can say yes, nobody will judge you anymore than you deserve

>>24101302

Any chance of a critique on mine here?

>>24107460
>would me posting it on 4chan count as "publication"
Technically yes but we won't tell anyone. If you're extra paranoid just upload it to pastebin/privatebin as unlisted and timed to expire.
>could I get into shit and be called a plagiarist if I do this because I can't prove that I was the one who made the original anon post and didn't just steal it from someone
Unless someone comes forward and can somehow falsely prove they were the one who posted it (not happening) no, you'll be fine.

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>>24101241
What's a good medieval-ish term for "portable property"?

I had a prince character who learns from a merchant that he should always carry some wealth that isn't just money, but I'm not sure what a better term would be.

>>24107634
chattel

>>24107634
Wearable wealth

>>24107640
Fuck me that's a good one. Thanks!

>>24107595
I think that, you might misunderstand, how to use commas, not just grammatically, but stylistically, to control the flow and create a voice
are you new to writing or ESL? don't mean it as an attack but it does read as though you're reaching beyond your comfort zone. the simple language is in awful dissonance with this attempt at winding sentences. there's a lot of stock phrases in your descriptions and you overuse this [adjective] [noun] structure
>desolate expanse
>arid landscape
>oppressive gray
>unsettling stillness
>scorching sun
furthermore your manner of description and metaphor is very direct. you hardly abstract at all. not a bad thing to be direct. this brisk, almost cursory manner of description works with the lifeless and inert environment to create some atmosphere. however your usage of commas undermine that atmosphere and the repetitive elements are pretty annoying. if you were deliberately attempting something, maybe a droning repetition could enhance the scene and the effect that's present, but as it is the repetition is a complete detriment
the plot hooky stuff is fine. maybe a little tacky but eh, can't be too scared of that. hooks are inherently a bit tacky
>we all knew who the true face of the operation was pulling the strings.
this foreshadowing by direct implication is something I find pretty distasteful and lame

>>24107576
Yeah no, I'm good.

>>24107697

I'm just new to writing and I was trying out different styles that suit me. I think direct can be a good thing but I also want to be a show but don't tell kind of guy maybe adding more layers and intrigue to my works.

>>24107634
Chattels
Personal property (this is the legal term of art for objects that are movable)
Articles/ Personal articles
Effects

>>24107465
>>24107482
>>24107626
Thanks anons, appreciate the ideas. I have a friend who's much more involved in the publishing world than I am and she made me very noided.

>>24107792
that makes sense. it's good that you're willing to challenge by trying new styles. so long as you question what does and doesn't work and try to investigate why you'll figure it out
keep at it. good luck bro

>>24107841

Cheers I'll keep that in mind, also the airport is meant to be a border marking the world between everyday normality and whatever misadventures of the bizarre and strange they get up too in whatever in my OC Area 51. So I'm going to go more into detail about that and how it reflects how my MC is feeling. I feel like that could be pretty important.

link your royalroad/whatever slop NOW

>>24107886
I am building my backlog

>>24107886
Why? Slop deserves to stay hidden as it only hurts society. Adults shouldn’t read fantasy or sci-fi. That’s for children, and stupid ones at that.

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this is the beginning of my novel
is that right?

>>24107979
>single quotes for dialogue
>double quotes within dialogue
what the fuck
it's alright. bit effeminate of you
the point being conveyed by
>it's the exhale between i and f
could be communicated more clearly. the line as a whole is a bit clunky. I like the sentiment though
why the fuck is your font size so huge. senile coke bottle glasses ass

>>24107886
Here's a casual story I started last year. Had to wrap it up short because I ran out of money and it didn't get a lot of readers. But I'm doing better economically these days and am working on continuation. Hope someone enjoys it.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/90496/the-maid-is-not-dead

>>24107998
fair. I'll rebut point by point as well
I'll actually fix the quotes. I remembered something wrong.
>bit effeminate of you
I don't disagree but I'd like to see you elaborate
>senile coke bottle glasses ass (ahh?)
card on the table I literally made the page a 1:1 ratio of the novel I'm reading at the moment.

>>24108021
starting a story with romantic/sexual tension building banter between a woman and a bratty bad boy moid is indeed effeminate

>>24108034
oh true

If being loved is a fantasy, why not jerk off?

>>24108169
she was so real for this

>>24104379
Like the other anon said it depends on how they spend those 13 chapters.
I'm writing a romance where the MC and his love interest are only together for half a chapter (it's about an incel in a parasocial relationship)

Hello, I would appreciate any feedback on my story.

He's a short excerpt (~800 words), highlighting the beginning of Chapter 7.

https://medium.com/@panosfrag/chapter-vii-excerpt-014dea1d0e81

>>24108383
>“Are you out of your mind, Octavio?” Sarlesh said, his fury palpable.
Stopped reading there. One of two things are true: either you couldn't be bothered to do a few revisions of your work before posting it for critique or you simply lack the ability to tell why this kind of writing is terrible. Either way, there isn't any critique anyone here can offer you that will fix those problems. Either take your own writing seriously or read more books or don't ask for critique on work which clearly has no consideration for the reader.

The water was frozen, and the snow had been falling for so long that Myro had lost count of the days, turning the lake into a vast white wilderness. Where the ice was flat and the ground was bumpy, the going was easy, but where the wind had pushed the snow up into ridges, sometimes it was hard to tell where the lake ended and the shore began. Even the trees were not as infallible a guide as they
might have hoped, for there were wooded islands in the lake, and wide areas ashore where no trees grew.

The mare went where she would, regardless of the wishes of Sara and Jonathan on his back. Mostly she stayed beneath the trees, but where the shore curved away westward he would take the more direct path across the frozen lake, shouldering through snowdrifts taller than Myro as the ice crackled underneath her hooves. Out there the wind was stronger, a cold north wind that howled across the lake, knifed through their layers of wool and leather, and set them all to shivering. When it blew into their faces, it would drive the snow into their eyes and leave them as good as blind.

Hours passed in silence. Ahead, shadows began to steal between the trees, the long fingers of the dusk. Dark came early this far north. Myro had come to dread that. Each day seemed shorter than the last, and where the days were cold, the nights were bitter cruel.

Sara halted them again. “We should have come on the village by now.” Her voice sounded hushed and strange.

“Could we have passed it?” Myro asked. “I hope not. We need to find shelter before nightfall.”

She was not wrong. Jonathan's lips were blue, Sara's cheeks dark red. Myro's own face had gone numb. Theodor's beard was solid ice. Snow caked his legs almost to the knee, and Myro had seen him stagger more than once. No one was as strong as Theodor, no one. If even his great strength was failing …

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I'm trying a Monarchy vs Democracy argument, but I feel I'm not conveying the message clearly enough. Do you guys have any suggestions?

>>24106447

>tfw literally noone responds to my tales in these threads. not a single time

>>24108493
At first, I thought this excerpt was going to fail the Bechdel Test, but at the last minute, the two women talked about something other than the men.

>>24108506
Sorry but I try to avoid replying to feedback-seekers with nothing but "I'm bored"

>>24108506
then we aren't your audience. or your writing is too boring to respond to.
that said,
>The father’s final words had been about teeth. Teeth: that irreducible anchor of identity. Remove them, and you remove the proof. James had never questioned why his father’s coffin arrived sealed. At the funeral, the pallbearers stumbled, and he had seen that black mouth, an abyss with no teeth. Everyone pretended not to notice, or they assumed it was some medical necessity. But James felt an unspeakable dread, something that insisted: “Count the teeth.” He tried to share that fear with his friends, but none of them listened. Even now, as he slipped out the door with the ledger in hand, he realized all of them—Derek, Tommy, Marie, Annie—were entangled in the father’s final forging spree without fully understanding it.
Is a far better first paragraph than your current first paragraph and sentence. Something about forgery is way more gripping than shaking hands from cigarettes.
>He had spent the morning staring at his father’s old ledger
Cut all this part.
>, the thick one reeking of chemical fixatives, where genealogical charts for “fake slaves” lay next to sketches of counterfeit restoration processes.
Irrelevant to the story at this point. Right now you need to introduce the problem, which is the forgery.

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Smalltalk status?

>>24108544
I hate conversation "world building". I don't need to have the speaker explain shit to me. Have the MC observe it instead.
>Teren scooped a bit of curry from one of the thirty-six bowls. He found it rancid and smelled of poo. He winced from the strong flavor.
>Prince Dirjir laughed. "Curry from the Feces Tribe is not for newcomers." The prince pointed to the bowl of red curry. "The curry from the Diarrhea Tribe is much better, but how did you like the Feces Tribe's curry?"

Now we can kind of infer the 36 bowls are representative from each of the tribes and doesn't have to be so boring. The fish curry bowl will solidify this point.

What's a good painting I can stick in my airport? The interior is supposed to be a demoralising concrete gray devoid of any identity but I want one really frightening piece of artwork my mc is kind of captivated and terrified of hung up somewhere in the terminal.

>>24108579
https://www.nga.gov/collection/paintings.html

start digging bro

>>24108573
Whom are you quoting

>>24108579
Watch this movie for ideas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eam2habSnAE
I have a hunch you want this feel, so draw from the visuals of the movie. It's about demoralizing architecture. Try something blocky, abstract, and for bonus points there are multiple paintings of the same kind but are all subtly and arbitrarily different.

>>24108583
your second paragraph

>>24108601
Fuck. I didn't mean to include poop in there

>>24107576
If I were shilling my e-books on an image board, I'd probably offer it up as pdf for free and try to coax people into buying it if they want to support me.
>"My publisher told me not to do this, but anyone who bought a copy could do the same so I'll go ahead and share it around. If you want to get it on Amazon so you can use their e-reader it's there for you but if you don't want to pay, that's fine too."
Or I'd pretend to be some anon dumping books with the hook for whatever book I'm shilling.
>"It's a Space adventure book where a guy crash lands on an alien planet, meets exotic alien women, and proceeds to uncover a plot by a mining corporation to strip the planet bare. It's up to him to foil their plans and maybe smash some weird insectoid alien puss along the way. Also, his ship's AI is a little floating sphere that accompanies him after he crashes and she gets jealous of the alien women hitting on him. The AI constantly tries to cockblock him when the aliens act amorous toward her commander."

>>24108617
your publisher is right. you can offer it for free for publicity and hope some anon would support you, but they will not.
>proof?
I have done it. Anons are the cheapest creatures on the planet

>>24108617
>>24108640
The trick is you have to write something people are willing to pay to read.

>>24108008
cool

>>24108661
None of us will make it now

>>24107253
How about Saharan Africa? It would make more sense for zombies to live in the desert, seeing as how there's little food or water.

>>24108579
A painting of a famous air disaster

A dozen foamy molds could not
match her in thievery, her heart in rot
The motel! That smell of desperation,
is to her like bread, no sweeter bought.
Description sickens to forewarn her guile,
her gaze alone is septic bile
-------
He stammered, drooled, and harped on,
but only if prompted, and then hopped off,
The dining-room could expect him,
but as an arrogant sloth, with bitter whims,
"Profanity hints at a shallow mind,"
"It hints correctly," he soon replied.

Desperately dull but loathe to be a loafer,
A full-grown man made himself a gofer,
But, whatever he may hope to redeem,
You taste his vice from a single gleam.

If you're an ethnic writer , do you think its ethical or appropriate to use a white pseudonym ?

I genuinely think its the play because white names just tend to sell better, or is it one of those , eventually you're gonna get caught if you got any notoriety and it would ruin you?

>>24107834
In the age of AI bots scraping the internet I would be extra careful, as others said use a pastebin with an expiry date.

>>24108798
Asian women names sell the best

>>24108579
if it's an airport, I'd go with a misc historical painting. probably in an awkward style. like a phalanx of infantrymen (spartan? roman?) falling upon their much larger barbarian adversaries (persian? carthaginian?)

>>24108814
yeah I mean for nerdy fan bases , not suburban womenslop

Lets be real here , the hyper liberal nerd era is dying now and the misogynist era is coming back / in full swing in incel corners - they were only feminists to get pussy anyway.

>>24108798
Jamaican people have white-sounding names. So just claim you're Jamaican, mon! Lord have mercy.

>>24108724
That could work too! Wow, that would really stymie the expansion of Upper/Southern Egypt.

>>24108835
Bumbaclot!

>>24108828
you don't read

>>24108851
from the amazon top 100 or NYT? You betcha champ

>>24108845
Especially if the zombies spread out from Egypt after being created to build the pyramids.

>>24107998
>>24107979
>single quotes for dialogue
actually I take it back, I was right (as per), british english favours single quotes for dialogue and double quotes for things within dialogue.

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>>24108847
Begorrah!

>>24108867
that's my house! under the bridge

>>24108847
most disgusting way of spelling bomboclaat

>>24108865
I'm thinking of making the Egyptians (adjusted) goblins, but huh. My God, Egypt's culture of venerating their dead could become a strong incentive for the (sub-)Saharan undead/Africans to try to invade Egypt, creating a compelling conflict.

P.S. I believe workers who built the pyramids were paid in beer and bread.

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wondering if this first scene isn't ass

Any recommendations for computer programs to use in writing?

>>24108906
what features are you looking for or need the most , that should narrow it down immensely

>>24108915
something i can have a gpt assistant in

>>24108906
>>24108919
Just go back.

>>24108919
nothing to my knowledge formally supports that kinda AI aside from maybe gemini in google docs

Best bet is probably just adding a chrome extension to your browser

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chatgpt-writer-use-ai-on/pdnenlnelpdomajfejgapbdpmjkfpjkp?hl=en&pli=1

>>24108934
Thanks. If it can work inside .docs I think its a good option.

>>24108925
Going back after this post. :)