Is there a book I can buy that will tell me how to write web novels?

>>25030151
embarrassing

>>25030151
Human Action by Mises.

>>25030156
I feel like that's a prudent question, I've seen you guys talking about that xianxia primer before.
>>25030164
>Human Action: A Treatise on Economics is a work by the Austrian economist and philosopher Ludwig von Mises.
anon this seems to be a book on economics.

>>25030169
Do you think any of the successful web novelists have read a book teaching them how to write web novels?

>>25030151
You're gonna have to read at least five webnovels in the genre you're attempting to write in, and actually understand why they are the way they are. It's as simple as that.

>>25030289
Probably not? but maybe it didn't exist when they started? I assume most authors in the last 10 years just figured it out themselves.

>>25030310
there are a few too many retards across both writing threads that truly believe they can't be taught anything

>>25030326
NTAs but I don't think the tension and testiness is about a denial of craft. The blunt replies seem more like a response to an obvious outsider to the scene thinking he can craft book and story theory his way to web fiction success.

>>25030342
why would you think that? have you ever seen a positive reception to anything that may suggest an anon doesn't already have all the answers

>>25030289
I'm a successful web novelist and I read a bunch of books on general writing craft along with various blogs/videos by web novelists specifically.
I think it's something anons should do more here. You don't have to follow advice dogmatically, in fact you need your own analytical mind to make it anywhere in life, but why wouldn't you at least hear what your elders have to say? Standing on the shoulders of others is literally the foundation of human society

>>25030151
Web novels are just writing and the majority of fundamentals apply. The biggest difference is generally just the necessity of tight pacing and distinct character arcs. A lot of characters are static in WNs (or at least very slow to change) since they last millions of words.
So pick up any of the respected craft books. Elements of Style is evergreen and its focus on clean, clear sentence level writing is especially relevant for WNs

As for more web novel specific mindsets and advice, just go and see if your favorite authors have blogs. I know PirateAba and Wales both do
>https://wanderinginn.com/writing-faqs/
>https://alexanderwales.com/how-to-write-a-web-serial/

There's also a podcast youtube channel that's interviewed quite a lot of the major authors on RoyalRoad and you can see how they view the scene/writing/etc. Go find your favorite author and listen to them.
>https://www.youtube.com/@critrpg/videos

>>25030151
Just write, man, really.
If you're so nervous, write as much as you can (the amount doesn't matter) every day. Even just 5 minutes would be good.
And read a lot of books.

>>25030401
>critrpg
went to shit when they got it in their head that they were a "proper" company or whatever

>critrpg
isn't that the retard who thinks xianxia is pronounced janja

>>25030439
What happened? I only watched some of the vids for the authors whose WNs I liked, no idea what the channel much less company (?) is doing

>>25030447
lol yeah I think I remember that. my bigger gripe was that the interviewer talked too much, took up like half of the interview sometimes. we aren't here for you lil bro

>>25030449
literal-who podcaster let meagre success go to his head, that's basically it

>>25030468
How though? What did he do?

>>25030472
his head grew two sizes. it was horrible

>>25030472
He started charging authors to come onto his podcast

Kino-Man on critrpg when??

>>25030510
what would kino-man talk about?

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Whenever I think about writing a web novel I'm reminded of mantis and how it basically failed.

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>hmmm I'm thinking of participating in an extremely niche kind of writing project with literall zero cost of failure
>ah
>oh no
>oh fuck
>I'm remeeeeembering some slop from sloptube that flopped
>AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AGH I'LL NEVER WRITE THE NEXT GAME OF THRONES
>*schizoposts*

>>25030546
QRD?

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>>25030151
Read books that expand your imagination.

>>25030510
What is it?
>>25030531
Worldbuilding.

>>25030447
>janja
found my next story: The Archmage Sells Weed In Cultivation Land

>non-Han MC gets isekai’d into a jingoist chinese wn
>has to somehow resist giving up and going full /pol/ garrison
>sees plenty of absurd nonsense like Chinese MCs massacring caricatures of the Japanese, Koreans, and Westerners
>MC eventually gets sick of it and decides to fuck off to the West
>accidentally converts to Buddhism

I have began getting burned out with Necroepilogos. I think it's time for a palette cleanser with an actual novel.

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>>25030151
Literally just read tvtropes
Modern writing has basically devolved into tags and tropes

>>25030773
Writing has always been a soup of tags and tropes, and originality has always been just about how you stir and arrange the tags and tropes.

>>25030602
you just copy the style of a more popular franchise or thing, (john wick) but you don't really understand why people read or watch that thing.
so you get a guy who has good choreography, but you spend too long on your political thriller part of the film and forget to give your character a personality besides aura farming which he loses a third into the movie because he wants to simp.

I was looking at stuff and I saw that The Crow and Rabbit by Wintydunno, #6 on the /wng/ spreadsheet, passed the first round of judging in the 2025 JNC Original Light Novel Contest in the Complete Story Category. The story didn't make it into the finalists though.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PdPZVKRWpwLfDxAJPLrd3juYWTSPVEizJ_5eQjziLRc/

I wonder what other stories have something notable about them.

>>25030146
Should I even bother with a pen name and alt emails? Why not just break into the sciffantasy writing game with my real name like Brandon Sanderson, Stephen King, George Martin, Asimov, Clark, and all the other great ones have done? If the public wants to know who you are, they will eventually. I'm just a regular nerd wih nothing to hide, so why bother?

>>25030151
Paste this into your favorite LLM, here's what will tell you how to write web novels:
>Act as a veteran web novel editor and serial fiction consultant. I want you to teach me the complete process of writing a successful web novel from scratch. Start by explaining the core differences between traditional novels and web fiction, specifically focusing on the need for "hooks" at the end of every chapter and the importance of a fast-paced release schedule. Walk me through the technical side of things, like how to choose the right platform and how to understand genre tropes that readers expect. Explain how to build a character progression system that keeps people coming back for hundreds of chapters without the story becoming stale. Give me a step by step plan for outlining a story that can scale to a massive length. Focus your advice on clarity and practical steps I can take today. Avoid general writing advice and stay focused on the unique requirements of the web fiction market.

The destination is more important than the journey

>>25030935
pen names especially in the style of an online handle are a big part of web fiction culture

>>25030866
Kino anon here.
Are you telling me I could have posted my story in that contest and made billions of dollars?!

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>>25030935
>I'm just a regular nerd wih nothing to hide, so why bother?
Good for you man, go ahead. The point of doing all that is mainly to avoid being accosted in public or having people mail disgusting/dangerous crap to your house when they track down your home address. If you don't mind being a celebrity, then you don't need to take any great pains to hide your identity.

>>25030956
Now this is just sad.

Shadow Slave is pretty great for how shitty it is.

Pen names are great because you can make it ambiguous enough that people will think maybe you're a female writer, but can't get mad if you aren't.

>>25031025
>Now this is just sad.
Why? I pasted it into Gemini with some guardrails to only return plain text paragraphs, and it seems like pretty good advice to me. Start doing this:
>Traditional books are sold once but web novels are sold every day. This shift changes everything about how you write. A traditional novel has a slow build but a web novel needs to grab attention in the first three paragraphs. You are writing for someone on a crowded bus reading on a tiny screen.

>The end of your chapter is more important than the start. In a physical book a reader might finish a chapter and go to sleep. In web fiction if they put the phone down they might never come back. You must use hooks every single time. A cliffhanger is a physical threat or a sudden revelation. A resolution hook is finishing one small problem only to hint at a much bigger one. This creates a loop that drives revenue and engagement.

>Pacing is your biggest tool. Web readers expect a fast schedule. If you do not post at least three times a week the platform algorithms will bury you. Most top writers post daily. This makes your story part of the reader daily routine. If you miss a day you break that habit.

>Choosing a platform depends on your genre. Royal Road is best for LitRPG and progression fantasy. Wattpad is better for romance and teen fiction. Look at the trending lists on these sites. Read the top five stories. You will see specific tropes like system prompts or reincarnation. Do not try to be totally original. Web fiction readers want the same but different. They want the tropes they love with your specific spin on them.

>A character progression system is how you keep a story going for a thousand chapters. Your hero should never be done growing. In a traditional book a character learns a lesson and the story ends. In a web novel your character gains power or status. As soon as they reach the top of one mountain you must show them a much taller mountain. This is the ladder method. Each rung is a new set of powers or a new social circle. This keeps the story fresh because the stakes constantly reset at a higher level.

>To outline a story that scales start with a world state rather than a fixed ending. Map out ten arcs. Each arc should be fifty chapters long. Each arc must have its own villain and its own specific goal. At the end of arc one the hero should move to a new location or gain a rank that introduces the conflict of arc two. This modular design lets you stretch the story if it is popular or wrap it up if it is not.

>Start today by writing your first three chapters. These are your hook chapters. Do not worry about deep world building yet. Just show the main character facing a problem and making a choice. Post these and commit to a schedule. Success in this market comes to the writers who show up every day and never let the tension drop.

>>25031101
disturbingly, that's all extremely sensible advice and I couldn't find a single thing I disagreed with
chatbots know web novels apparently

>>25031111
They have not just webnovels but webnovel writing advice articles to scrape from.

>>25031111
I know everyone acts like LLMs are the coming of the antichrist but if you use it as a more advanced search engine instead of literally trying to get it to write your story they're quite useful

>>25031015
At this point just take up a trip. You didn't have to announce yourself as F anon for any reason there.

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Why do books have yandere and harem tags? Not just yandere? COMPLETELY misses the point of yandere, awful, writers that have both yandere and harem should DIE DIE DIE they should kill themselves immediately

>>25031226
I haven't seen a proper yandere in years, mostly it just means a girl gets jealous and possessive easily these days

What litrpg has the highest density of *bing bing wahoo* *you have leveled up* *stats +5*? I just want quick and easily digestible dopamine

>>25031268
Azarinth healer

>>25031268
Azarinth Healer immediately comes to mind.

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How do I write like the author of pic related?

>>25031281
I think this cover will age very well and /wng/ will look back on it fondly

>>25031291
I think it's a cool image, wish i could of have asked him what he was thinking when he got commissioned.

>>25031291
the consensus seems it's a cool design but doesn't work for a web novel and also has nothing to do with the story or even genre / themes etc
one of those weird old paintings of "the future" might have worked better

>>25031296
just ask him, he posts hourly

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>>25030146
An Unruly Summon - Cathfach (2025)
https://www.royalroad.com/profile/190997

An Unruly Summon was a First Prize winner of J-Novel Club's Original Light Novel Contest 2024. The winner received $3,000 and a publishing contract. The Grand Prize was $15,000. J-Novel Club is owned by Kadokawa, a major Japanese conglomerate.

A human kingdom has been invaded by demons and both the elves and dwarves have refused to help. Out of sheer desperation they use their last resort, summoning a hero from another world. That means they've kidnapped some guy from Earth and their deities have made him overpowered. Over the centuries the royal family has learned what a disaster this process can be, so they've devised an elaborate plan to manipulate him into doing what they want by having him believe that it's all his choice. If that fails, there's guilt tripping, admiration, and offering a harem. They couldn't account for Thomas Smith, a 19 year physics student (the author has a PhD in physics), would be so genre savvy about isekai stories. Thus begins the contest of wits and wills between the royal family trying to trick him and Thomas trying to learn all he can without his fanboy spirit getting in the way.

The story is told from a first person perspective and from a third person perspectives for all others. This isn't a typical isekai story. Thomas isn't interested in any of their manipulations and is very suspicious of their intentions, but figures that if he can Make The World A Better Place he may as well try. If royal family was right about anything, it's that those from Earth have a sense of moral superiority about their culture, especially about slavery. There's a bit of social and political commentary. The women of his intended harem are nude at times, but nothing sexual occurs.

Magic is categorized by color in a way that reminds me of Magic The Gathering's mana. For the protagonist, the magic is emotion-based, reminiscent of C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy. Spells are required to be spoken, for which Latin is used, and are modified by adding words. For everyone else, magic involves complicated mental imagery, components, and much hard work.

Cathfach says that Terry Pratchett is their favorite author. The humor here is being meta about isekai conventions and power fantasy in general. The theme seemed to be that with great power comes great consequences, often unintended. There's a focus on the collateral damage caused by immense power that's not fully understood or controlled. In other words, there's a fair bit of tragedy, which is handled well enough.

I enjoyed this more than I expected, though I don't how much that was because of personal appeal. It may also be because it seemed to be roughly equally influenced by Anglo and Japanese fantasy. This first book is mostly a self-contained story. As for its length, Cathfach currently expects this to be a trilogy, which I plan to read.

>>25031123
I thought that too for awhile, that I could just use them as a research assistant but they often hallucinate answers and confidently tell you something that they just made up. So you have to cross reference it and at that point you might as well just give it articles and tell it to distill and summarize all of them together for you.

>>25031335
that's why you demand them to link sources and check the sources

>>25031335
All this money, all these resources going into AI and it's an unreliable narrator.
How frustrating.

>>25031344
that only barely works for well known topics. there really aren't that many sources out there talking about web novel writing strategy, it's mostly organic chatter in reddit and forums that the chatbot synthesized but will never be able to dredge up with a linked source
it put together a pretty solid brief overview above but yeah asking it about anything specific will have it confidently bullshitting and quickly getting lost

that said, it's not like authors don't also confidently bullshit with their own unsubstantiated theories about how X is the secret sauce

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>>25031281
Interesting, what do you mean by 'my writing'
>>25031296
No commission.
I've visited a ruined church in a European village in the middle of the Alps and discovered that my protagonist was there, trapped in a fading art on a crumbled wall. So, I decided to immortalize him in another medium.

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new personal record: 522 words in 20 minutes
all along my semi-hiatus has been a training arc

>>25031291
It's honestly the worst cover I've seen on RR, which let's be fair, is on par with the story itself.

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>>25031353
>trapped in a fading art on a crumbled wall. So, I decided to immortalize him in another medium.
Soulful. It's a unique choice for a website that seems to prefer anime or cyberpunk themes. In the sea of that, a medieval wall painting really stands out.

>>25030866
I am STILL waiting on the "report card" they promised me for passing the first round.

>>25031015
The contest is yearly, you can enter it this year.

>These two were formidable characters and were also schemers. Right now, the enemy was in the open while they were in the dark and both felt they had a huge advantage, they could even be said to be the oriole in the saying ‘the mantis stalks the cicada, unaware of the oriole behind’.
Who is the mantis, who is the cicada and who is the oriole of /wng/ ?

>>25031421
That's the same for my writing and book. Despite their flaws, you won't find anything like that elsewhere.
>>25031403
Post yours
>>25031444
Link plz

Why does everyone say high output matters so much? A lot of the top patreon earners and biggest follower counts seem to be releasing 1-3x a week
Daily seems to be the outlier

>>25031488
Because the way many of those top stories got here was high volume. 3x a week is still relatively high.

>>25031488
You are only allowed to scale back the output once you've made it. This pattern can be observed over and over. They only scale back after they already had their rise and secured a paypiggy tugboat.

>>25031488
3x a week is high but i believe the reason they put emphasis on volume is it's helpful to build a user base.
all the guys you're looking at are already established, but imagine being a new author.
The idea is put simply quantity -> quality even if you write a story a good story and it's the 2nd best /wng/ has ever seen you still might not get followers, but putting out consistently and a lot increases your chances more than the quality of your work.

>>25031469
it isn't announced yet but it'll be here
https://j-novel.club/jncolncontest

>>25031488
Daily is often used to build an initial audience but since that kind of output isn't sustainable they then drop to (usually) 3 days a week. It's why having a large enough backlog is so important.

>>25031525
on the other hand chinese webnovelists will slop out a chapter a day for 5 years

3rd person or 1st?

>>25031528
yeah daily chapters are actually completely sustainable you just need the right workflow
which many don't have
esp with western standards, a 1500-3000 words chapter once a day (trending towards the lower end) is really not that difficult, reminder that qidian's contract stipulates a minimum of around 4k/day if you want to get full benefits (which are the bare minimum really)

>>25031538
>qidian's contract stipulates a minimum of around 4k/day
How do Chinese sloppers manage to do this?

>>25031538
>>25031528
cont.
A lot of westerners still operate with at least some degree of "trim the fat" mentality. But even the old greats didn't do that. Many of the novels in the earl-modern and late-premodern literary canon are bloated to all fuck specifically because they were initially written either as serials or on a pay-by-word basis. See Moby Dick, Brothers Karamazov.

>>25031513
Thanks

>>25031539
have you ever read a xianxia? or even just a western wn that releases daily like Primal Hunter? it's very easy to see how. 80% of chapters are just streams of consciousness with no substance whatsoever to them
sitting down and babbling out 4k words actually isn't that hard if you have no standards at all and don't care about even giving it a proofreading pass

>>25031551
you don't even have to do a proofreading pass, just toss it to Claude and ask it to point out typos or obvious mistypings (as in words that are technically correct but obviously are not the right word, which happens when you're slopping at speed)

>>25031451
Kino-Man is the cicada
all the doomers and whiners are mantises

naturally, I am the oriolechad

>>25031528
Westerners got to comfy and now the reality of web novel world is hitting them hard.
Writing western goon slop is just not cutting it anymore.

>>25031451
donner and thalia is cicada
kino mana mantis
my novel is the oriole

>>25031554
i'm not sending my work to something that cannot even complete a videogame designed to be beaten by 9 year olds.

Your success as a web novelist depends entirely on how entertaining your stream of consciousness is. It needs to come naturally.

>>25031551
>have you ever read a xianxia? or even just a western wn that releases daily like Primal Hunter? it's very easy to see how. 80% of chapters are just streams of consciousness
lol, rr novels is the literal the definition of stream of consciousness.

>>25031567
>that cannot even complete a videogame designed to be beaten by 9 year olds.
Did you throw out your refrigerator because it couldn't file your taxes?
It's a language model. Why would it be able to play a videogame? Weird logic.

>>25031573
that's... what I said, illiterate-anon

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Day 4 of writing dialogue-only first (zeroth?) drafts and this shit is a fucking cheat code
/wang/lads... we're all gonna make it!!!

>>25031581
It's the xianxia defender, don't expect much from him.

>>25031583
how do write dialogue only? where are the characters?

>>25031570
One of the truest and cruelest truths that has been said here.

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>>25031353
>what do you mean by 'my writing'
The homosexual undertones.

>>25031576
the point is that while it's very good at creating the illusion of intelligent conversation (after all it is a language model trained to reproduce the many text conversations from its training dataset), it is not actually structurally capable of reasoning, so users should take care not to fall for the illusion of the ELIZA effect and start thinking that just because it generates coherent sounding responses that it can be trusted for answers

>>25031565
>Westerners got to comfy and now the reality of web novel world is hitting them hard.
westerners have to write less per day and at the same time make more in royalties because they're not cucked by a website taking 90% of their profit. english speakers are also just way bigger paypiggies. so what's hitting them hard, exactly?
>Writing western goon slop is just not cutting it anymore.
i thought chinese stories were the goon slop. that stuff is banned on royalroad but when I go to webnovel.com I see "I reincarnated as a Vampire FUTANARI with a System!" and similar titles everywhere

>>25031599
i agree but you replied to a post where none of what you said applies
he was talking about using it as a spellchecker, which AI does significantly better than human proofers now

>>25031606
>"I reincarnated as a Vampire FUTANARI with a System!"
l-link?

Which series have magic/skill systems that are actually memorable, impactful, etc? Beyond just being the means of progression, if that makes any sense

>>25031596
I don't fully understand what you're asking, fren.
I'm simply not writing any dialogue tags or descriptions at this stage of my drafting process so I can focus on the dialogue and character interactions meaningfully contributing to the story and/or world.

>>25031613
we've had competent non-AI spellcheckers for decades

>>25031626
well, formulaic 1:1 dictionary checking.
proofing software sucks ass though. too context dependent. AI does it better than humans

>>25031613
>he was talking about using it as a spellchecker, which AI does significantly better than human proofers now
Grammar checking and spell checking isn't some revolutionary tool brought on by the use of AI. although all the AI shills seem to be thinking it is, the only actual innovation AI brought was the ability to ape certain sentence structures, but the problem is twofold I find.
One aha tends to waffle a lot of meaning people aren't going to read your long-winded AI slop and instead will run it through an AI. creating the problem it's solving and as every idiot uses AI to make himself seem more intelligent and legible only to make his writing less so.
two, AI loves certain phrases and words which quickly exposes itself to be AI.
We need to get to the point I can feed a LLM the entire transcript of RI and it'll will be able to write in the style of RI for the rest of time not just a single conversation.
That's when we'd of reached the peak of AI for writing, when AI can finish RI.

>>25031642
you might be the real reverend of insanity if you think RI can be "finished" by AI

>>25031642
>Grammar checking and spell checking isn't some revolutionary tool brought on by the use of AI.
It really is. Grammarly and ProWritingAid are the so-called leaders and they suck massive balls compared to a LLM. To say nothing for how shitty Word has become in that domain.
I'm not an AI fan and want it deleted from the world, but that obviously won't happen. So I'll use the tools available, and it was shocking how perfectly it proofreads. I used to have a Grammarly subscription and got rid of it (good riddance).

German anon here. I now launched two webnovel projects that got organic 10-15 followers on royalroad on day one by their own merit.
I'm eight projects in all but those two which were deliberate designed to tropes and site desires failed.
I found somehow an audience that stayed for my world building and romance.... the power fantasy and other kind of readers do hate me.

>>25031344
Ive asked it to link me "x stories about y" from Royal Road and it made up stories and gave links to other stories that had nothing to do with what I had asked for as proof.

>>25031653
this shouldn't be surprising
there's no real reasoning taking place

>>25031651
grammarly just uses AI now though

>>25031652
The thing about writing on meta is that your ceiling is wayyy higher but getting your foot in the door is way harder too.
Going niche means you have a tiny, dedicated audience but will stagnate at some point, well below what the big stories are doing even if quality is high. Going normie means anyone will read your shit, but they also have an infinite amount of other books to read too.

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>>25031652
It feels like aiming for the meta is pointless.

>>25031657
It uses really shitty AI then.
Putting in an excerpt into a top-end model and allowing it to think will produce shocking proofreading results. At .1% of the cost of a pro proofreader who will miss tons of shit.

>>25031618
webnovel.com

>>25031663
You shouldn't aim for the meta. You should write what you like and make your own meta

>>25031652
Wow, eight projects! Tell me, how many of those are complete? More importantly, how many of those have you simply abandoned the moment they didn't succeed?

>>25031679
Looks like the fulltime hater is here

>>25031675
I have ideas. but I quite confident that if I start writing them very few people will read them.
I just don't know if I have the resolve to finish stories if it feels like the only reader is myself.

>>25031664
What AI do you use for proof reading?
also are we just not at the point where all word processors are using AI anyway?
I feel like word must be using co-pilot and sheets must be using Gemini.
Even browsers feel like they're getting more and more built in AI features.
I agree with you though better than paying some random on fiver to do it.

New Seras story is kinda annoying me because it's decent.

It's probably middle of the pack for them and it's pretty standard power fantasy fare but it's still more interesting to read than most of RR just because it has threats, plot threads and characters.
Like it can't be that hard to do this, they shit out a story like this every time they get a new interest. So why are most Rising Stars stories so much worse than it?

>>25031659
>>25031663
It is not the meta really, that too. Will not give it all away. I codified some rules for myself, not to overgeneralize and it only got two of my projects out.
1st. The reader should know what the story is about from the title.
Something I didn't think was necessary before, now I realized it is.
2nd. Early interactions compound.
3rd. You do not know what tickles their itch. So if you don't get lucky with your passion project.... try concept first samples.
4th. People want more of the same. Sell something old in a new mantle.
5th. Some markets are craving for content. CRAVING FOR IT. Underserved niches do exist. If you hit them you might get a foot in the door.

>>25031687
Gemini 3 Pro with thinking tokens set to Very High. I chunk it up so context stays small and it catches quite literally everything. The only mistakes that sneak through are weird edge cases where the sentences make sense and work but weren't what I meant when I wrote them

>>25031690
>So why are most Rising Stars stories so much worse than it?
If you've ever watched NBA games and haven't played on a court yourself, you might think 3 pointers look easy too. Writing is hard as fuck.

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I found a bypass around my retarded mental block
Every time I finish and post a chapter, an "okay we done for today" switch flips in my head and I can't write anymore no matter what
So I just make the chapters longer
this is the power of brain goblin wrangling

>>25031679
Most were 1-5 chapters anon. The largest project is still the one I tried to salvage here in december.

>>25031715
It's really not if you just take the time to remind yourself what makes a story interesting. Especially with webnovels where the audience is very forgiving of grammar missteps.
Ofc most people who just shove stuff up on RR don't even do that.

>>25031680
Maybe I wouldn't be a hater if he actually wrote all eight of those projects. He doesn't get a pass for being le german anon. He's a faggot who gave up on the story he posted here initially over criticism and then immediately jumped into generative AI.

>>25031682
Put an archmage and a level system in it and make it hot.

>>25031726
>It's really not
Have you written a popular story, anon? Because famous authors will generally agree that writing is really fucking hard. I've noticed that only the delusionals like F-anon disagree, and then go on to insist that their excrement smells like flowers and their story is just misunderstood

>>25031729
After 3 month of work is not immediately. Or a decade ago after I quit writing for the first when my material was not accessible. I found peace with my passion and soul not being accessible.

What it did was force back my old marketing and self help salesman self learning a new world.
Now I'm finding my heart in the new projects even if my soul is no longer with it.

Happy that my world building works. So that was never the issue it is quite satisfying.

>>25031733
>that writing is really fucking hard
In what way? Like what do you mean by that? What part is hard?
I have my own opinions but I'd like to hear what you mean since I'm in the middle of cooking.

>>25031753
It takes an enormous amount of practice and study to hone a skill to a high level, whether storytelling or prose craft (the latter of which Seras lacks, but not the former).
The NBA 3-pointer analogy says everything, really.
Some people are also just freaks of nature and do find things easy where no one else does, though. I just doubt anyone in this thread is that person. It's maybe unfair, but if an anon says that writing is easy, actually, then I just assume we have an F-anon situation on our hands. If it's that easy where are your 10s of thousands of followers like Seras has? Her prose sucks but she engages her audience consistently. That shit is hard.

Speaking of, prose is easy compared to story, which is why it's so disappointing that the prose bar is so low. It's honestly formulaic to a certain extent

>>25031778
You really just need to find a decent authorial voice and once it locks in it stays locked in.

>>25031753
>What part is hard?
Getting someone's interest and holding it.

>>25031765
Mechanically, putting a ball in a hoop from however many feet away is hard because you get one shot, and the minimum distance is firmly set. Getting that consistent requires a lot of training of the nervous system and musculature.

Mechanically, writing isn't really like that. It's holding a pen and writing a letter. Or pressing a button on a keyboard. Repeated for some large number of times, with lots of opportunities to go back and make corrections.

The principles of writing well are also well known and have been known since the Ancient Greeks and Romans. There are countless examples of how to do it well, and critiques explaining how different writers hit or missed the mark.

Maybe coming up with a somewhat original story is hard? But ideas are cheap. Everyone has them.

I think figuring out what the market WANTS is hard, but only because readers don't know what they want until they see it. It's like Steve Jobs and the Macintosh computer, or the iPhone. But we've all seen how frieren-clones are popular, so there's nothing stopping anyone here from writing a frieren clone, is there?

I have these thoughts because personally I don't find it hard to come up with stories and write them down. And I think it's because I have a good foundation/education in writing, first with sentences, then paragraphs, then essays of increasing length, and then I started writing fiction and I already knew how to do all the mechanical stuff.

>>25031717
kino

>>25031791
Create a sense of mystery, introduce a conflict, endear characters to the reader, release the tension with a cathartic moment at the end.
The Greeks knew this.

>>25031797
I think this guy might be onto something, I read Frieren recently it was exactly like this.

>>25031792
>Mechanically, putting a ball in a hoop from however many feet away is hard because you get one shot, and the minimum distance is firmly set. Getting that consistent requires a lot of training of the nervous system and musculature.
>Mechanically, writing isn't really like that. It's holding a pen and writing a letter. Or pressing a button on a keyboard. Repeated for some large number of times, with lots of opportunities to go back and make corrections.
The core of the analogy was about how immense skill (from practice) makes something look easy, not the mechanics (or lack of) involved with the skill itself, anon. So my point there was you can see a pro writer craft a compelling storyline and think "oh I can do that" while being wildly offbase about the difficulty of it.
>The principles of writing well are also well known and have been known since the Ancient Greeks and Romans. There are countless examples of how to do it well, and critiques explaining how different writers hit or missed the mark.
Knowing the principles of something and actually executing on those principles is not AT ALL the same thing, not even sure what you were going for with this.
>I think figuring out what the market WANTS is hard, but only because readers don't know what they want until they see it. It's like Steve Jobs and the Macintosh computer, or the iPhone. But we've all seen how frieren-clones are popular, so there's nothing stopping anyone here from writing a frieren clone, is there?
But most of the frieren clones fail or see mediocre results at best. You're ignoring the dozens or hundreds that go completely ignored. And many of the RS ones are created by experienced writers purposefully chasing the market, and they still had 10% of MLAs success.

You can think writing is easy, fine, but all evidence suggests otherwise and (not to instigate) I think it's just an ego thing of some people. Why would 99.9% of writing be so shit if it was easy? And I hate to insist, but have you actually backed up this mindset at all? You type fairly confidently so I assume you're one of the local thread successes?

>>25031797
where are the greek tragedy webnovels? i wanna read about a flawed MC who never overcomes his flaws or grows as a person but instead is struck down by them

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>>25031380
>>25031717

today's chapter complete at 2.3k baby it's that easy, literally just do it, stop THINKING and let the words flow out of you

>>25031803
Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
far journeys, after he had sacked Troy's sacred citadel.
Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.
Even so he could not save his companions, hard though
he strove to; they were destroyed by their own wild recklessness,
fools, who devoured the oxen of Helios, the Sun God,
and he took away the day of their homecoming. From some point
here, goddess, daughter of Zeus, speak, and begin our story.
Then all the others, as many as fled sheer destruction,
were at home now, having escaped the sea and the fighting.
This one alone, longing for his wife and his homecoming,
was detained by the queenly nymph Kalypso, bright among goddesses,
in her hollowed caverns, desiring that he should be her husband.
But when in the circling of the years that very year
came in which the gods had spun for him his time of homecoming
to Ithaka, not even then was he free of his trials
nor among his own people. But all the gods pitied him
except Poseidon; he remained relentlessly angry
with godlike Odysseus, until his return to his own country.

The Odyssey would have been a kickass webnovel.
But you can see here how Homer created a sense of mystery, portrays Odysseus as sympathetic (and hot, bro a NYMPH was after his dick), and even a god was mad at him.
Do you think he made it home? I mean Homer said he did but that can't be the end of it, right?
Ending with him going to Egypt was such obvious sequel bait in case Homer wanted to keep milking patreon later lmao

>>25031832
xianxia uses copious deus ex machina, very greek

>>25031826
>The core of the analogy was about how immense skill (from practice) makes something look easy, not the mechanics (or lack of) involved with the skill itself,
I think the mechanics of it matter more, because with writing there's unlimited time and low pressure to create something good.

Maybe knowing what is good is hard if you start writing after only reading a few fantasy books and that's it, but if one bothers to read books about creating good stories and how to do it and what pitfalls to avoid, I don't think that mechanically it's hard, nor do I think that practice matters in the same way as it does in pavement hoop. Perhaps I would say it's more akin to solving math problems: where once you know the algorithm, and practice applying it, one can expect to correctly solve math problems from then on, eventually, given enough time.

>But most of the frieren clones fail or see mediocre results at best.
I don't think this is true, making it onto RS and getting several hundred followers is really good. Just because a story doesn't hit MLA numbers doesn't mean it sucks or was unsuccessful by RR standards.

>Why would 99.9% of writing be so shit if it was easy?
Miseducation (on purpose). You can look at the writing of uneducated farm hands fighting in the civil war and they were better writers than most masters of creative writing today.

>And I hate to insist, but have you actually backed up this mindset at all? You type fairly confidently so I assume you're one of the local thread successes?
Yeah, I'm the paranoid guy who refuses to link but I have two fictions, one at >350 followers (about to end) and another at >100 followers. The first isn't good (because it was my first attempt) and the second is good but off meta. So I'm starting a third fiction that's closer to the meta, and written better, and following the precepts, and I'm hopeful of hitting RS (without even putting archmage in the title).

>>25031862
>because with writing there's unlimited time and low pressure to create something good.
Not only is this not true for the web novel scene (or for 99.99% of writing professionals barring like GRRM because reasons I don't need to explain) but you can give 40 hours to someone who's never picked up a pencil and they won't be able to draw a realistic portrait. Time and low pressure doesn't matter if you lack the skill. Writing isn't purely mechanical but there is a major practice component before you are good enough to start writing something with merit - are you saying there isn't?

>making it onto RS and getting several hundred followers is really good.
Ah, well, I guess that's where the premises of our arguments diverged then. I was talking about good writing. Writing that tons of people enjoy, pay for, and genuinely gush about. RoyalRoad is extremely niche a small-time slop success there is not good writing. Many would argue even the top stories there aren't.
The starting point of this was Seras's writing, btw. One of the bigger names on the site.

>Miseducation (on purpose).
:/

>Yeah, I'm the paranoid guy who refuses to link but I have two fictions, one at >350 followers (about to end) and another at >100 followers.
:/

>>25031883
This is why I asked in the first place. Saying "writing is hard" can mean many different things.
>Writing isn't purely mechanical but there is a major practice component before you are good enough to start writing something with merit - are you saying there isn't?
There's a practice component in the sense I already said: writing good sentences, good paragraphs, good chapters, good stories. But it's not "harder" than learning to solve differential equations, and they're the same class of hard (compared to feats of dexterity or strength).

>I was talking about good writing. Writing that tons of people enjoy, pay for, and genuinely gush about.
So A Court of Thorns and Roses?
We both know that "good" and "successful" are two partially overlapping circles in a venn diagram. There are good books that are financially unsuccessful, and there's trash that's financially successful. This is because of how readers are individuals with different exposure to different things and different tastes, so there's an element to randomness to everything, even though on average, good wins out (reprints of the classics have been hard carrying physical bookstores for decades now).

>The starting point of this was Seras's writing, btw. One of the bigger names on the site.
Huh? I'm not trying to diss but I've never heard of Seras before, other than seeing the pokemon fanfic from time to time. I can see he or she gets a lot of followers but if you're talking about "quality" that's different from popularity.

Now granted if you get Seras in here to call me retarded I'm going to have to agree with him or her because he or she is way more successful than me. But poo-pooing my numbers without sharing your own is crass.

>>25031950
>So A Court of Thorns and Roses?
Yes. We're in the slop thread. I won't shame other slop just because it's not my preferred flavor. For all you ridicule Sarah Maas, she is skilled in creating compelling stories to a mass audience in a way that her peers are not. People love her shit and that is extremely hard to make happen as I will continue to insist
>We both know that "good" and "successful" are two partially overlapping circles in a venn diagram. There are good books that are financially unsuccessful, and there's trash that's financially successful. This is because of how readers are individuals with different exposure to different things and different tastes, so there's an element to randomness to everything, even though on average, good wins out (reprints of the classics have been hard carrying physical bookstores for decades now).
I think most successful works have merit, just not merit in the way critics like to think about it. This isn't really a discussion of quality vs popularity though, we'll just have to simplify into saying that good works get readers even if it's not strictly true. Way too much of a tangent otherwise. There seems to be an assumption we're talking about semi-meta stories from the beginning, though I might've misread that.
>Huh? I'm not trying to diss but I've never heard of Seras before
Really? She has two works on the first page of Best Rated, one topping RS and also in PTW, and has 29,000 total followers. She is by literally any definition one of the major authors of RR. And she's actually even bigger on SpaceBattles, a RR-adjacent site.
>But poo-pooing my numbers without sharing your own is crass.
Well, I can't share them because doing so narrows me down too much. But more than 20x yours and we'll leave it at that.

I think saying that writing is easy is distasteful for a few reasons. It both unjustifiably diminishes the hard work and skill of authors who create compelling stories, and also insults smaller authors who pour everything into their work and get mediocre results. Which in my opinion is because they're not quite there yet and need to keep working, because writing is something you need to practice a lot.
I don't actually know any big authors who would say writing is easy. I certainly struggle to create interesting storylines on a weekly, high-output basis

>>25031983
>>25031950
The trouble you guys are running into is that you're talking about a space that's slowly being taken over by women that write stories targeted at women. It's inevitable that it's going to happen, because it happened decades ago in traditional publishing. The old audience in places like RR doesn't like these new styles is stories because they aren't meant for the old RR reader.

It feels a bit like western WNs are dying. That it will eventually just turn into another branch of "traditional publishing" and the old RR audience will go back to reading Japanese, Chinese, and Korean web novels.

>>25032035
Uh I didn't get that feeling whatsoever. That's definitely not the trouble we're running into
Also what recent stories are targeted at women? If you're implying Seras' are you're crazy, and she's one of the OGs of RR anyway so it would just be the status quo
It's all litrpg and power fantasy stuff. It's extremely male dominant and your post comes off kinda deranged, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about

>>25032035
A space isn't women-dominated until romance is the primary genre.
And right now the only romances that do well on RR are male-povs or lesbians, and those are both niche in their own right
I honestly can't even name a single big story on RR with a F/M romance

>>25031983
>But more than 20x yours and we'll leave it at that.
Fucking based anon, congrats.
>Seras topping RS
Damn that must have happened in the last 48 hours because I was just looking at RS, or it updated the list or something. Nah props to Seras I think it's great I just didn't notice this.

>I think saying that writing is easy is distasteful for a few reasons
I don't think it's easy, but I don't think it's hard in certain ways. Hard like lock-picking or solving math problems. Or maybe I'm blessed and not being humble enough. But I think a lot of writers who fail simply don't work smarter NOR harder. They would do well to practice writing clear sentences, paragraphs, etc, and then study what has been known for thousands of years about how to write an entertaining story.

Too many people, I think, come in with delusions of "literary quality" and write overly purple prose because they don't really understand why good complicated prose is good, so they just make things complicated and get frustrated when they don't understand why their complicated sentences are derided and others' are praised.

Anyway I did go back and check and I never said it was easy. I just think it's achievable for people who practice, and practice their art correctly.

>>25031983
>>25032070
Also sorry to double reply but I actually think Maas is based for ACOTAR and her subsequent books. I'm not a fan of smut being paraded around as literature as a trend, but she's clearly a talented author to put together the books she has. I consider myself a student of her work, same as other popular romantasy authors like Yarros.

>>25032035
There's infinite digital fields. I don't think men /can/ be crowded out of webnovels like they were crowded out of tradpub. And they weren't really crowded out, they were deliberately excluded for (illegal) sexist reasons which has led to men retreating to the classics, webnovels, japanese media, among other sources of entertainment.

>>25032035
RR =/= Wattpad. Different websites, different niches. Speaking of, the tradpub nightmare literally can't happen because of the nature of the internet. If a bunch of women somehow muscle their way into RR and push out the male readers and authors, we can just make a new website and tell the cunts to kick rocks. Tradpub is a snobbish, gated community that actively squashes any attempts to get around the big publishers.

>>25032070
>I don't think it's easy, but I don't think it's hard in certain ways. Hard like lock-picking or solving math problems. Or maybe I'm blessed and not being humble enough. But I think a lot of writers who fail simply don't work smarter NOR harder. They would do well to practice writing clear sentences, paragraphs, etc, and then study what has been known for thousands of years about how to write an entertaining story.
Yeah that's the tragedy of language, and something you learn early in a writing career - you can take extensive efforts to be clear and still be misunderstood en masse by your audience. Beaming concepts to another person's brain with just words is really difficult.
I could call getting a university degree hard or not hard and entirely mean both statements. It's not hard in the sense that a regular guy can work and attain a professional degree, assuming no brain damage. It's hard in the sense that it still takes years and significant effort and isn't something to dismiss as easy in certain contexts.
Most people can learn to write a simple, compelling story, or write clean prose, yeah. But it takes quite a lot of effort to execute on supposedly basic principles imo.

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How big or viable is the toxic yuri webnovel scene?

>>25032094
>Kassai
I know what you are

>>25032094
My rule of thumb is that you should find the biggest stories with a similar audience to determine whether you have a shot. But then again if you're crazy good at writing you can make your own meta.
I think This Magical Girl is Mine is toxic yuri? And that's 5k
So kinda small, but viable depending on your definition.

>>25032043
>Also what recent stories are targeted at women?
All these female lead stories are.
>and she's one of the OGs of RR anyway
I've read 100+ chapter stories on RR that were dropped before Seras even registered. That said, she is among the older generation of authors on the site.
>It's all litrpg and power fantasy stuff. It's extremely male dominant and your post comes off kinda deranged, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about
The types of stories that worked on RR have shifted most likely because the demographics have shifted. Something like the uncensored version of Everybody Loves Large Chests would never work today. Stories like Arcane Emperor, Change; New World, Savage Divinity probably wouldn't work either. Forgotten Conqueror and A Dragon Gnawing It's Tail would work though.

But these demographic changes happen slowly over time. You won't notice it at first, but eventually things become difficult to recognize. This is the direction it feels like the site is heading towards, not because anybody is specifically pushing it, but because the users like what they like.
>>25032053
Nah, romance doesn't have to be the primary genre. Women do like reading other stuff too.

>>25032086
RR kinda of was such a site though. Just look at what the best rated stories were in 2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20170508195006/http://royalroadl.com/fictions/best-rated/

It's a different landscape to today. Granted, it is better today than back then. We've got a lot more variety and stories to choose from. 90% of stories don't end up as [Dropped] anymore, but we've also certainly gone towards a more general audience.

>>25032102
Yeah you're just a really OG OG then. But the site isn't changing, it changed 5+ years ago. Stories like No Epic Loot, Metaworld, and AH are nearly as old as ELLC (only 1-2 years younger). Popular FMCs still happened back then. And it's not like FMCs are meta even now, they still only make up like one in seven big stories (a stat pulled out of my ass).

i wrote a paragraph
yeah
YEAH!

>>25032102
>Nah, romance doesn't have to be the primary genre. Women do like reading other stuff too.
Individual women might, but not women as a whole. Women as a whole read romance. If women are the majority demographic of a site, romance will be the biggest genre.

>>25032110
Ngl, ELLC in my mind is still a "new" type of novel that I couldn't get into. It has remained as such in my mind.

You're not wrong that popular FMCs happened back then too. TWI is squarely from that era and it's one of the most popular web novels. The New Journey of an Old Soul was popular back then as well (for the yuri "incest" "smut" though).

>>25032107
I think the Best Rated page skews female lead much more than site averages (like PTW), but I'd be really interested in looking at the most followed stories of that time period vs now. Dunno if that's even possible though.

I indulged in some 'tism and funny enough the Popular This Week page has the same # of Female Leads in January 2026 (today) as May of 2017. Which is 3/20 total.

Which means this thread is actually female skewed because I think at least half of anons are writing FMC

>>25032163
I wish

>>25032163
i would write an FMC but I don't understand women. so it'd just be a male MC.

>>25032123
Good job anon, I'm proud of you.

>>25032177
boy do I have good news for you

I don't like writing males - If possible, I'd want all works of literature to be touhou-esque where all the characters are cute girls and the boys are either nonexistent or extremely rare without this gender disparity being touched upon or mentioned at all.
Radical misogynist btw

>>25032177
Women are best written as males, no one actually wants to read a realistic woman.

>>25031444
>you can enter it this year.
There is no contest this year. I've been checking every month since September.

>>25032198
i'm not quite as based as you but unless there's a reason for a character to be male, like to fulfill a male-specific archetype (or villain), then they should be female
women make better characters, it's self evident

>>25032204
they finally realized how retarded the concept is
>LN written by EFL
>so the east doesn't like it
>and the west doesn't like it

>>25031687
>busy writing webnovel slop
>microsoft word puts a red unline beneath one word, two words, three words
>an entire sentence is underlined in red
>hmmm, how do I fix these errors?
>click the spellcheck button?
>go back and fucking read what I just wrote and use deductive reasoning to fix the error myself?
>Nope! AI! GO GO GO!

>>25032212
As annoying as it is to see thinly-veiled /pol/ schizoposts dressed up as "story ideas," political correctness really does stifle a lot of creativity from western/EFL authors.
A book about actual unvarnished racial conflict in schools would go hard, especially if you added boy meets girl and damsel in distress and a large melee battle scene to it.
But it's literally unpublishable and the author would be attacked to no end.

>>25032217
you don't use Word do you? the current grammar checker is meme worthy. i've seen some hilarious screenshots

>>25032218
Yeah that's why I mostly only read chinese Ao3 works these days. They're completely unhinged while retaining insane quality.

>>25032218
>the author would be attacked to no end.
imagine is that guy tried to publish lolita today? he would be killed after having his reputation ruined.

schizo hours have arrived i see

>>25032230
>he would be killed
None of the actual E's list celebrities, confirmed pedos have been killed. You have a persecution fetish, stop airing it out in the thread.

How's Django Wexler doing?

>>25032254
thinking about lesbians with blackpowder mechs

>>25032251
My fault big bro, you're right I got carried away and I'm sorry.

>>25032254
He's posting the last chapter of the story on his alt account soon. Don't remember the name of it, but it was FFF something.

>>25032268
I dunno it wasn't that bad of hyperbole. People get tons of harassment they just don't talk about it because talking about it only makes it worse.
I'd take anonymity over celebrity any day.

>>25032198
I was thinking about this too since it's really popular among gacha games to have this type of cast and even the mixed gacha games where they have both male and female characters trend to majority female over time.
I think the Atelier (with a token male sometimes) and Neputia games are like this to. Don't think there's a term for this.

>>25032198
>Radical misogynist btw
So you like writing girls so that you can fuck'em up then.

>>25032323
Gacha tend to be character collectors, men are more likely to buy waifus and women husbands. I think it's rare for games to have a large portion of both demographics so after awhile they skew. It also comes down to gameplay, women might prefer playing love and deep space to an action combat game. Or something like infinity Nikki.
For gacha that mostly sell women it's just that know men don't sell well

You guys should look around more at stuff outside of web novels.
Non-fiction and regular novel length stories are being swamped by ai, even fucking coloring books on Amazon are overwhelmingly ai now.
Long running web novels will be the last thing that gets taken over because of their nature and the memory limitations but everything else actually is doomed.

>>25032333
Yeah sure but that's only part of my point. There's still many many games like Umamasume, Princess Connect etc that come out every month that are just all girls.
I'm just trying to think about how to translate something like that into WN form.
Harem stores are kind of similar but they have their pitfalls because of being tied to romance which doesn't work with so many characters and shifting focus.

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>>25032336
This is a good thing btw

Writing is so hard and intimidating, my sentences are like dry chalk compared to the richness of my favorite writers, it's genuinely incomprehensible to me how they can imbue their works with such vivacity. Difference of heaven and earth.

>>25032336
Flooding with trash a medium which has always been 99.9% trash with 0.1% books worth reading, and more good books worth reading than a person can read in a lifetime anyway, is not going to meaningfully change the medium for people of good taste.

What care I that a cow eats cowslop? Let him. I do not take seriously the lowing of a cow any more than I care about the opinions of the common man on contemporary fiction. They are both utterly meaningless.

I AM AN ISLAND

>>25032333
>For gacha that mostly sell women it's just that know men don't sell well
You say that but don't Love and Deep Space and similar games make fuckloads of money by pandering to women who self-insert? Not even doing gay shit, straight up petting minigames and shit iirc.

Women aren't a different species. What works on men will work on women if given a little bit of an adjustment.

>>25032339
Just follow touhou rules vro
>all the characters are cute girls and the boys are either nonexistent or extremely rare without this gender disparity being touched upon or mentioned at all.
If you want popularity then just sell out and do a harem story. I never read harem stories because they're all GARBAGE but they're insanely popular so just do that if you want money money

>>25032336
Unless the ai is making kino on the same level as women are clothes. What's the point?
In the end ai will only be as good as they'll let it which is too say; ai will make slop not shakespeare.

>>25032347
Yes you're right for every 10 gacha that panders to makes, 1 panders to females and makes a lot of money doing it. Love and deep space is for downbad female gooners and makes the most money easily. Which shouldn't be surprising i guess because romance is the best performing book genre and has been for a long time and most those readers are women.

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>>25032343
For starters, you suck at writing sentence bro.
Writing is so hard and intimidating. My sentences are dry chalk compared to the richness of my favorite writers. It's genuinely incomprehensible to me how they imbue their works with such vividness. It's like the difference between heaven and earth.

>It's genuinely incomprehensible to me how they imbue their works with such vivacity.
Unfathomable would be better than incomprehensible. Better yet would be a word that's not too long for you.
I cannot understand how they imbue their works with such vivacity.
Vivacity? Really? You can't define that without looking it up. You're not talking about lively in temper or spirit, you're talking about "richness," by which you mean "goodness" because you don't actually know what you're talking about at all.
How about descriptive? How about poetic? How about vivid?

Let me break it down for you:
Stop using words you don't understand.
If you must use a big word, look up the definition before you use it.
Stop writing run on sentences. Subject, verb, object. If you can't diagram it, don't write it.

And here's the cheat: 90% of "good" poetic sentences are shamelessly stolen or remixed from other earlier works. Read a lot, write down sentences you like, crib from them later. You're welcome.

>>25032362
>For starters, you suck at writing sentence bro.
I knowww that's what I'm saying agh
I indeed did mean 'vividity' but got it mixed up with 'vivacity' while 'vividity' was never the right word in the first place as it should be 'vividness'.

>90% of "good" poetic sentences are shamelessly stolen or remixed from other earlier works. Read a lot, write down sentences you like, crib from them later. You're welcome.
I do have an archive of sentences I like, but I hadn't considered copying/stealing them as that would be somewhat shameless. I suppose deconstructing them on a grammatical level might be more productive for increasing my skills?
Thanks for the advice

>>25032367
Deconstructing them is a good idea to get a sense for how a good sentence is constructed, but you can literally just write plainly for the most part and sprinkle in bangers here and there for impact.
Writers of yore did this all the time. For instance, nobody has actually read Crazy Priest so you can just wholesale steal "women are clothes" and put it in your story. Nobody will know. Anyone who notices will just chuckle.

>>25031619
All of the skills did an alright job of this. The system was a big part of the world building and narrative

(This) might also be why people are okay recycling Xianxia; the tropes were at least leveraging the systems in a meaningful way

>>25031619
So I'm a Spider, So what?

Imma be honest for a second. MLA is peak

Sky Pride is touted as this immensely philosophical work and readers are always saying how the author clearly has deep wells of knowledge about Daoism and philosophy more generally but the perspectives seems pretty shallow to me.

>>25031619
Strange Beast City
Lord of Mysteris

>>25032569
people say the same about the prose even though it's unremarkable or just plain bad (I don't really care about prose; it's just an observation)
I think SP is just one of those non-min-maxed, no clear weaknesses, good enough in all areas type of stories which already puts it far ahead of most RR slop

I hate double-spacing on RR. Is there a reason? Padding? Bad Paste formatting?

>>25031619
Worm, because they're fundamentally tied to the nature of each character and their flaws/traumas/whatever.
>>25031832
Again, Worm. I am reminding everyone to read Worm.

>>25032588
Pasting into RR is known to have problems and RR will often add extra spaces even when you ask it not to (probably because they think it makes it easier to read on the app). The direct chapter import via a document is much better but that's a premium only feature.

>>25032569
>>25032583
Sky Pride is pretty bad, actually. RR readers are just easily impressed by anything that has
>-No Harem
in the synopsis.

>>25032638
based if true

>>25032638
sky pride appeals to the few freaks who took more than the mandatory ethics class

>>25032569
>>25032649
what's so philosophical about the morals and ethics it allegedly discusses?

>>25032631
>RR will often add extra spaces even when you ask it not to
I have the opposite problem, it always removes all spaces on saving and I have to mash enter like 5 times if I want one line break to remain between scenes.

>>25032651
it discusses things like REGRET and SORROW
very philosophical stuff, chuds wouldn't get it

>>25032665
isn't there a preview function and can't you freely edit after the fact? I see a lot of complaints about this

>think back to a story I was writing in 2014
>realize its an underdog MC magic system story
webnovel slops have ruined me

>>25032671
unrelated, but my issue is that the spacing i use ends up looking differently on web vs in the app. I'll preview on my PC and it'll look fine but then I look at it on the mobile app after uploading and the spacing is different. I don't know why.

>>25032671
Preview opens in a new tab these days, nothing happens on the post form. But once you save and exit, lines can still get removed.

>>25032675
The app is kinda glitchy. One reader complained about missing spaces after italicized words, but they had spaces and showed correctly in browser, so there was nothing I could do about that.

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Can we talk business?
Is it viable together bump up the cost of a Patreon sub by, say, 10-15% compared to a monetised substack or any other platform/personal website etc etc where you retain more control? Patreon still has the least friction when linking up with RR etc but it's a horrible experience for everyone involved. Could you reasonably funnel readers to your own domain away from the Patreon ecosystem this way?

>>25032102
would blue core work on modern RR?

>>25032696
my marketing sales hat, you have to see patreon as wallet access (that is why cellphone micro purchase is and was such a bigger market than console and PC slop)
the friction for those low ticket item purchases is not to actually get people to fork over money believe it or not the core is to make them open it

there are more patreon account owners who are into this stuff, their wallets sit easier because they bought
porn, support other artists or something

patreon got trust, yeah maybe substack might be possible but people didn't give them their payment issue
at the scale they did with patreon

>>25032666
So it's basically Frieren?

FRIEREN IS A FUCKING STUPID, SILLY COMEDY MANGA WHY IS EVERYONE ACTING LIKE IT'S THE DEEPEST SHIT EVER??

>>25032731
Helpful insights but I'm not suggesting one replaces the other. I'm saying: keep Patreon for that low friction, seamlessly integrated, one-degree-of-separation option with the through line via RR's big shiny Patreon button but charge slightly more versus your other platform and slowly, without hard selling, persuade Patreon patrons to migrate over to your website/substack/etc which is ostensibly cheaper for the user and takes a smaller cut from the creator while also offering a better overall experience. There will always be those guys who will never budge from Patreon for any number of reasons but we wouldn't be targeting those types. I think there's a growing group of conscious consoomers who could be tempted to switch

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>>25032802
It is a silly comedy manga. But it's also got moments of tenderness and introspection.
It's about an autist learning how to feel. Also she occasionally gets eaten by mimics for the gap moe and kills demons because we need the action quota.

>>25032802
Because the first few episodes are le sad, and by first impression bias, people think it's not just a battle shounen, but instead, a deep discussion about the loneliness of ageless beings, about the passage of time, etc.

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>>25032802
The same reason K-On is widely popular. In fact it plays the same role as K-On did back in the day in radicalizing young men by showing them a better world.

>>25032714
>would blue core work on modern RR?
Maybe if you market it to minotaur milking hags.

>>25032802
its not deep its just good

do you think i could get away with writing a Fu Manchu WN on RR?

>>25032850
What do you mean by getting away with it?

>>25032802
Every 3-4 years there's a manga that gets close to doing western fantasy instead of the stupid mmo-inspired shit that's standard over there
And every single time people get blown away by the author choosing to do something that's not the worst and laziest option.

>>25032850
A story about a evil scientist who also happens to be Chinese? I mean why not?

>>25032857
writing a WN where the antagonist is the menacing yellow chinaman. i mostly want to see if i can resurrect the yellow peril among WN readers.

>>25032868
anon, people don't realize it but it frieren is elza..... it is frozen in german

>>25032880
Yea people don't know this but if you can read german half of all Frieren characters have their defining traits revealed.
I guess the author read some german fantasy / childrens story once and got it into his head to make a manga.

>>25032874
If you're not excessively obvious about it, yeah sure.

>>25032810
>It's about an autist learning how to feel
That's just readers projecting. She doesn't change or grow in any way

>>25032886
japense fiction just uses rule of cool with foreign names, english/german
DBZ uses that method

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The key element I need to write is a hot chick. There needs to be a girl I'm lusting after, possibly multiple, so that I can build a story and insert fetishes along the way to fuel my creative drive. But lately, I find I'm just losing my interest in women in general. Even big boobs can't help me overcome the threshold to writing. It might be unironically over for me.

>>25032952
>Even big boobs can't help me
It's time to embrace flatties.

>>25032952
women are the downfall of men.

>>25032952
You've become desensitized to gooning, friend. Quit masturbation for a week or preferably a month and you'll be cleansed.

>>25032988
I don't even goon that often. But my balls start to ache if I go dry for over a week.

>>25032988
>NOOOO STOP USING YOUR DICK

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: read MLA.

>>25033031
retard

>>25033031
every thread I read about frieren and mla you guys are obessed do you read any other fucking web novels?

>>25033031
I tried to read it once, but got bored halfway through chapter 1. There's no hook

hookfags are the worst. Almost worse than plotfags.

>>25033045
explain hooks and plot to me.

>>25033047
a hook is like a funny tiktok before the story starts. A plot is like having subway surfer on the side of the screen.

>>25033056
Thank you teacher.

>>25033002
Shalom, rabbi

>>25033037
NTA, I think it's more that because it's uber successful it merits examination

>>25033045
I love hooks
I love plots
I even love zingers


And there's quite literally nothing you can do about it

MLA has dropped $5000 on patreon in the last few months. It's a hack story and people are realizing it.

>>25033080
Hope he didn't buy the yacht in installments

>>25032094
not big enough.

>>25033047
Hook is a reason why anyone should read your story. "I got isekai'd as my game character" isn't really enough anymore after 20 years of the same shit

>>25033080
So it's following a completely normal breakout novel profit curve, and?

>>25032102
>All these female lead stories are.
lmao

>>25033094
>it's not enough
>talking about a story that proves that statement wrong

>>25033096
source? novels dont usually drop like that

Meanwhile Zogarth is now at over 90k/month. That's over $1 million per year.

>>25033134
I really dont understand how it keeps going up, and by so much each month. its not the whole genre growing, other big patreons arent growing like that

>>25032478
peak.

>>25033140
It's amazing how that guy can just outright tell his patrons to get fucked and they won't stop throwing money at him. He makes brandosando and GRRM look like total losers

the primal hunter started so poorly; did the author have an epiphany or am i just not the target audience?

>>25032914
>dbz
>rule of cool
they're all named after fucking food.
ginyu force -> japanese for milk force
gohan -> rice
vegeta -> vegetable
piccolo -> pickle
etc

>>25032914
Toriyama said his naming was to intentionally make them seem less intimidating.

>>25033149
>GRRM look like total losers
hates his audience and will never release the books to spite them.

YOU DARE

I can't understand zoomer humor... why do they keep referencing memes?

>>25033252
thats how they cummiuncate

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>Cao Zhi could produce poetry in seven steps ("The Quatrain of Seven Steps")
>Michael Moorcock could write a novel in three days
I have no excuse........ I've just been overthinking and fucking around with stuff that doesn't matter

>>25033333
i need more time

>>25033037
>do you read any other fucking web novels?
the people who talk about MLA haven't read it

>>25032665
Have you tried directly editing the HTML? The site goes off HTML so you actually have a lot more control over how things look in the end than you might think fighting with their gay little text editing tools.

It's a bit of a pain but it's easier than trying to import a chapter with basic formatting (line spacing, italics, etc) that aren't broken a million times. Look for the the button that looks like this: [<>]

I don't understand classicist humor... Why do they keep referencing older lit?

>>25033342
If texts are moved between software like office, google docs, and RR, and back and forth, each editor overlays their style tags on top of the old, and they turn into such a spaghetti clusterfuck, I don't dare to touch the code. One time, I managed to lose a < somewhere that caused half the text to show 3 times larger than the rest, with font randomly changing here and there, and nothing could fix it. I had to copypaste an older version of the text from my PC to make it show right again. The html tag conflicts are probably the main culprit for all display errors

>>25033369
oh i see what you did there.

>>25033166
kitchen appliance and underwear
brief, trunks, freezer

to nips it sounds exotic

>>25033140
he got a manga recently that was just last some years

i want a story where a boring office lady dies and gets sent to isekai world but she gets transformed into a gigachad hero man and has to deal with the fact that all the girls want to be part of his/her harem and she can't stop staring at tits all the time and if there isn't one I will write it myself

>read reviews of some slop
>"erm, the moral content of this story is really icky"
>read a few chapters
>it's the most milquetoast shit ever
I am out of touch. But I don't think I'm concerned about it. Best of luck to anons out there writing anything at all for RR.

>>25033558
you'll see complaining like that on goodreads, amazon, and every other reviewing website too. people will always complain and virtue signal.
thing is, it doesn't matter, and you're cucking yourself by thinking it does

>>25033519
make her a futa

>>25033622
the moral content of this post is extremely icky, major serial killer vibes. bullied in elementary school, probably a Norwood class five.

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>>25033656
>probably a Norwood class five.
You nearly made me spit out my energy drink.

>>25033656
>probably a Norwood class five
uncalled for

>>25033656
are there any WNs where a character prognosticates the hair loss of another in such a way?

>>25033754
Yes
A Barbarian Entered the Academy

today i become a writer. of slop. accepting (you)r ideas

>>25033790
ummm you haven't heard, sweatie?
the IDEATION PHASE is the easiest part; ideas are cheap! cheap! cheap!

>>25033792
that's why i dont mind leaving it to my apprentice

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Okay, hear me out: what if an MMO player woke up INSIDE the game, in the body of their character?

>>25033790
Mana detector returns a -1 for the MC's magic power on his first day at The Magic Academy and he is ostracized as "the weakest". But actually his mana is infinite and he's the strongest. His childhood friend doesn't really think he has talent and he never clears up the misunderstanding, but she's supportive of him anyways despite the harassment which he accepts with a smile. Then an Ancient Black Dragon attacks The Academy, even The Headmaster can do nothing but in the darkest hour after everyone else with Talent has tried and failed then cried bitch tears of regret, he steps up and defeats the Ancient Black Dragon with the Weakest Level 1 Spell. The dragon is so impressed it turns into an attractive young woman and constantly hounds him for his sperm to make strong offspring, the rich talented girl that didn't care about him is impressed, and his childhood friend is forgotten about.

Then he leaves the academy with all these foids to wander around and cook food with monster ingredients that the girls all cream themselves over every time. Oh and all the monsters are super strong sounding SSR rank shit which happen to taste really good as ingredients.

You should be able to milk this for 3-5 years of daily chapters probably.

>>25033818
log horizon is good though, so was .hack. it's just no one really wants to hear about all that shit they want aura farming and hype fights rather than the logistics of trying to form a society or the escapism mmos represent.

>>25033818
that's insane. it could never be done

>>25033790
Rinaldo, the heir to the world's wealthiest dynasty, fakes his death to escape the constant assassination attempts and burdens of his lineage. Seeking a quiet life of books and the company of his cat, he hides in plain sight by enrolling at Miraval Academy, a prestigious school for "Essentias"—warrior-mages who wield the power of Chaos.

However, his plan for a peaceful life fails immediately when he is ranked as an FFF-Class "Javelinist," the weakest power level in the history of the Holy Rolandish Empire. Forced to the bottom of a cruel social hierarchy, Rinaldo must navigate the bullying of elite classmates while becoming entangled in a massive geopolitical conflict. Ultimately, his "unlucky" experiences and the discovery of a global conspiracy set him on a dark path to becoming the story’s primary protagonist.

>>25033835
Why did you AI-generate my blurb?

>>25033854
How can you tell it was AI?
I want to someone else's take on the Javelinist sub-genre.

>>25033860
>How can you tell it was AI?
People in this thread can't write blurbs that smooth, concise, and effective

Ravensdagger gives me the ick. How can a man write those fictions? And so many at that...

>>25033860
1)It's different from the one on Royal Road.
2)You have changed 'Javelinist' to "Javelinist." Only an AI that doesn't know my writing rules would have done that.

>>25033877
why is another man giving you "the ick"?
you're both women

>>25033877
>le heckin ick
how about you ick yourself

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>>25033790
A person gets transmigrated into a fantasy world as a cute beastperson (ideally harpy or mermaid (with legs)) and adopted by a criminal boss as an heir. She has another adoptive sister, and the adoptive mother plans to have them kill eachother once they come of age to determine who is worthy of inheriting the family business. The sister has been aware of this for a long time from picking up the hints left by the mother, while the protagonist is oblivious due to her own incompetency. The mother somehow dies or is assassinated, and the sister is left to replace her position.
Possessing knowledge of the succession ritual, she has half a mind to kill the protagonist but can't bring herself to thanks to the protagonist's high mission efficacy and her own lingering affection (which she doesn't acknowledge).
She's constantly paranoid about being usurped by the protagonist yet fears the repercussions of assassinating her. Her solution to this dilemma is to make the protagonist utterly dependent on her so that she would never think of rebelling.
Cue toxic yuri incest

>>25033921
You've totally confused yourself on who the protagonist is.

>>25033924
No

>>25033921
are there many beastpeople protagonists on RR? also this sounds like an actual narrative; too far removed from slop
>>25033823
at the very least ill consider the powerful being becomes cute sidekick thing

>>25033924
He's going for onee-san energy so the protag has to be the cute one

>>25033921
10/10 it's perfect
>>25033943
if by beastperson you mean human with cosmetic cat ears then yes

>>25033928
>>25033945
So what is the transmigrated beast person's struggle? What are they trying to accomplish? What's the conflict?
"Being dumb and cute and molest-able" isn't a struggle.

>>25033954
Completing missions (episodic formula) and occasionally brooding about her shitty life while trying to avoid getting molested upon returning.

might actually do beastperson then. what happened to autistic werewolf/adjacent stuff? did that never blow up on RR? has it come and gone?

>>25033960
Okay, and what does she lack that drives her across the entire story (to infinity and beyond in the case of an endless slopfiction)?
This is why ideas are cheap and execution is everything. It's a decent idea but if you write a super bland protagonist nobody cares about or roots for, the story will suck.

In Bookworm, Myne lacked reading material.
In Log Horizon, Shiroe lacked stability.
In Azarinth Healer, Ilea lacked sufficient punching bags.

>>25033970
I didn't really think that far ahead since it was written in like 60 seconds but the blurry outline was that the protagonist was being driven by necessity. She has to complete missions since she's a member of the company/family. It's like the mafia in that if you try to leave you're killed, so she can only keep her head down and obediently fulfill the various duties assigned to her. She might try to make some wiggle room or breathing space by being cunning at times but any time she makes such an attempt, her sister would mercilessly carve the lesson into her bones that there isn't any escape from that lifestyle of crime. As someone with the sensibilities of a normal 20th century modern person, she would have the fun inner struggle of being forced to commit atrocities that she doesn't really want to with no way out, confronted with the choice of either suffocating or becoming numb.
I was imagining that the 'missions' would be the main entertainment of the story, having the form of showing off a unique and magical world while encountering various interesting conflicts or problems in their scope. For example, being sent to deliver a mysterious package across country borders or various assassination missions; each one quickly goes off the rails with various plot twists - again, mostly episodic formula in the form of these missions.
Her sister would ultimately represent the 'crime' that she wants to escape, an embodiment of sin that refuses to let her go and would do anything to make her submit.
So I guess the thing that drives her across the story is her own lack of freedom or agency.

>>25033790
I kind of want to write an academy story from the perspective of a local protagonist who’s always in second place to a secret isekai character. All the entertainment comes from the local’s stream-of-consciousness seething about the isekai character, and his constant attempts to kill her, which always end in Wile E. Coyote–style backfires. I don't think a multiple lead book would do very well though

>>25034030
does she bully and love him in secret and does he get to fuck her in the end?

>>25034031
The idea I have right now is that she thinks they're friends and all the shit talking he does is just banter. Kind of like TFS Goku now that I think about it.
>does he get to fuck her in the end?
I don't wanna write romance, so if I went that route, I'd either make it an epilogue thing, or make it so he was a closeted homosexual the entire time in honor of TWI

>>25034042
Just make them both cute girls then
People like when mean girls get backfired on too

>>25034011
>I didn't really think that far ahead since it was written in like 60 seconds
That's exactly why I said you confused yourself as to who the protagonist was.
Your main/pov character isn't a protagonist. They're an object on which the true protagonist, the other sister, acts. Nothing wrong with that in fapfantastyfiction but in a real story it doesn't work well. It's bland, readers don't attach to the MC, they drop early (unless they're reading with one hand in their pants).

The other adopted sister, the abusive one, lacks an outlet for internal frustrations and isn't sure if she wants to fulfill her expectations for the death fight. It's interesting. There's tension there. The first sister as described is just boring, partly because she doesn't have full info and so is sleepwalking through the plot as it happens to her. She has no agency even if you put her in missions.

>So I guess the thing that drives her across the story is her own lack of freedom or agency.
This IS POSSIBLE to write in an entertaining way. But in 99% of cases, this is a turnoff for readers. People want to read about characters overflowing with agency and who have the freedom to act AND DO IN FACT ACT to drive the plot and the story.

>>25034046
Men cannot possibly write the internal seething of a jealous woman accurately.
We lack the emotional and psychotic depth.

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>>25034059
>Men cannot possibly write the internal seething of a jealous woman accurately.
truth nuke, the true depravity and evil of women is only understood by other women. It's why women write the best female antagonists.

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>>25033790
Amy Winehouse isakei.

You know, with 4chan writing web novels, I figured some edgy stuff would have slipped through by now. Something like,

I always thought reading was lame and gay, but the YouTube algorithm clearly disagreed. My homepage was flooded with thumbnails of women dissecting the latest BookTok drama, dead-eyed gurus spewing dubious writing advice, and pasty white guys gushing about their favorite light novels of *questionable* content.
And I thought the Warhammer 40,000 spam during the COVID lockdown was bad. Now, all this talk of web novels, isekais, and litRPGs was clogging up the feed, getting in the way of the slop I actually wanted—like, I don’t know, saltwater crocodile documentaries and shit.
Just because I watched 60 FPS anime fight scenes every now and then didn’t mean I was some kind of mega nerd, dammit!
OK, maybe whenever sweaty anime girls flexing their abs popped up in Shorts, I let it loop a few too many times. But I was only wiping my ass!
Yep, that’s totally what happened.
My incel brother blamed the Indian programmers at YouTube HQ for wrecking the algorithm with their AI slop code. I didn’t know anything about that. All I knew was this crap was grinding my nerves.
But eventually, I caved. The internet psyop worked, and I found myself browsing Amazon, hunting for the least cringy title to start my descent into degeneracy.
That’s when lightning flashed through the window and cooked my insides.
In the split second before everything went dark, my eyes locked on the last thing I was browsing before God struck me down. A novel with a feminine-looking boy surrounded by six hunky women on the cover.
*My New Life as a Sissy Archmage*
That was going to be what they found my corpse with.
Fuuuck—
With the last of my strength, I slammed my head through the screen, feeling the stab of liquid crystal burning my eyeballs.
And with that, my life on Earth came to an end.

>>25034058
Most of my enjoyment derived from reading stories results from the protagonist's suffering or the protagonist recovering from setbacks, so a situation where they're forced to adapt and overcome various tribulations is more exciting to me than a situation where they're absolutely free and can do things on a whim or arbitrarily.
The conflict arises from the sister. It is a situation of trying to rebel and break free, trying different schemes or methods to extricate oneself only to be thwarted again and again. The agency and freedom of acting lies in the steps she takes to achieve freedom, to overcome the problem that drives the plot. It would be the story of a desperate and complicated struggle to escape from a situation and the captor which embodies that situation.
If the protagonist were the sister, I don't see how it would remain interesting, as she is the head of the business/family and as a result the one at an absolute advantage. Her inner turmoil of deciding whether to murder the protagonist or not isn't enough to sustain the story alone. She is an interesting character but due to her place on the power hierarchy, she wouldn't make an interesting protagonist, as she is already at the top and no longer has any room to grow or experience meaningful conflict outside of her own inner turmoil. Having the pov of the abuser is much, much less interesting than having the pov of the abused, as it's the abused that has to weather, process and overcome the situation. In the instance of abuse, the only one going through a 'conflict' is the abused, not the abuser, unless the abuser feels bad or regretful about every instance of abuse, which would very very quickly get tiring/annoying.
The sister is the active party and the protagonist is the passive party, but the agency of the passive party lies in the measures they take to weather or overcome the problem presented to them.

>>25034161
How many /wng/ works have you read?
I think it comes down to people not wanting the RR janies to ban them, writing a web novel isn't like writing a shit post.
I once pitched an idea on here about a globalist getting sent to a fantasy world and having his ideas of globalism shattered but the only reply I got was
>what are you mad about
people probably don't write the bait stories becasue the pay off is low.