Bach is shit editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh (embed)Previous thread: >>123925391
"[Handel] is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach." - J. S. BachAnd when Mozart heard this:"Truly, I would say the same myself if I were permitted to put in a word""Handel understands effect better than any of us -- when he chooses, he strikes like a thunderbolt... though he often saunters, in the manner of his time, this is always something there." - MozartUpon hearing the 'Hallelujah Chorus' from Messiah, Joseph Haydn is said to have "wept like a child" and exclaimed: "He is the master of us all.""Handel is the greatest composer that ever lived... I would uncover my head and kneel down on his tomb." - BeethovenBeethoven, when asked to name the greatest composer ever, he is said to have responded: "Handel, to him I bow the knee."In 1819, Beethoven told Archduke Rudolph: "not to forget Handel's works, as they always offer the best nourishment for your ripe musical mind, and will at the same time lead to admiration for this great man.""Händel is the greatest and ablest of all composers; from him I can still learn." - Beethoven on his deathbed
Bach is the worst composer to have ever lived.
>>123940139That is as absurd as claiming that Bach is the greatest
Beethoven is the greatest composer who ever lived.
Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6nCYMEdquc
>>123940119CP IS EMBEDDED IN THE OP
Seething meltdown is embedded in >>123940196
Why is there cp embedded
>>123940119Liebestraum No. 3https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MBOa-2b4uQQ&pp=ygULbGllYmVzdHJhdW0%3DNot to be confused with Lebensraum which was the idea that for Germany to survive they needed to expand into and conquer Central and Eastern Europe; enslaving, exterminating and deporting the peoples living there including Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Czech, and other Slavic nations considered non-Aryan.
>>123940196Based
MOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
>>123940196CPE bach?
Bach fans are indeed gigantic faggots.
>>123940234Luv me some CPe bach
kek. I love you OP
>>123940137>The prosecutors have built an astonishing record. Several of Handel's works consist largely - in extreme cases, almost entirely - of systematic "borrowings", as they are euphemistically called. Israel in Egypt is among them. Of its twenty-eight choruses, eleven were based on pieces by other composers, some of them practically gobbled up whole. Three of the plagues choruses were based on a single cantata by Alessandro Stradella, a Roman composer whose music Handel encountered during his prentice years.>More recently it has been discovered that no fewer than seven major works composed between 1733 and 1738 draw extensively on the scores of three old operas by Alessandro Scarlatti that Handel had borrowed from Jennens.>Perhaps Handel's most brazen appropriation involved the "Grand Concertos" (concerti grossi), op. 6. They were composed in september and october of 1739 and rely heavily for thematic ideas on harpsichord compositions by Domenico Scarlatti, which had been published in London the year before.>One of his critics was Johann Mattheson who openly and angrily accused Handel of copping a melody from one of his operas. Another was Jennens, who wrote to a friend that he had just received a shipment of music from Italy, and that "Handel has borrow'd a dozen of the pieces & I dare say I shall catch him stealing from them; as I have formerly, both from Scarlatti & Vinci".>Sure enough, Handel rewrote the passages he had borrowed for his own recent operas so as to obscure his indebtedness to Vinci's. If the old defense - that borrowing carried no stigma - were correct, there would have been no reason for Handel to cover his tracks. And that may also explain why, of all the borrowings securely imputed to him, Handel altered the ones he made from Domenico Scarlatti the most. It may well have been because, of all the music he borrowed, Scarlatti's keyboard pieces were most likely to be recognized by the members of his own public
>>123940315All baroque composers borrowed music. It is what they did with the borrowings that counts. Bach never wrote an original chorale, he borrowed all of them. Handel, as one critic said, changed rocks into diamonds when he borrowed.
>>123940315Every composer borrowed, conciously or not. That said, Handel was a god compared to everyone else, especially in the Baroque era, and all the greats that are popular are forever in debt with him. Mozart, Beethoven, Bach worshipped him as a result.
Theories about OP, Day 1: His gf leave him for a german dude in a baroque wig.
>>123940338Damn so Bach was just ripping off other people the whole time? The lore deepens
>>123940338Hey retard, Bach "borrowed" the choral MELODIES. It's called HARMONIZATION. It's not "borrowing," it's the act of adding a harmonization to an existing melody. Everyone already knew the chorale melodies. Nobody was under the impression they were original to Bach.
>>123940379>His gf leave himnice english saar
>>123940415>The Melodies Ah so he just stole the bits that require actual creativity to write. Maybe Nico was right about Bach being the Collier of his day?
>>123940417Your post is all in lowercase which is equally poor English
>>123940119>>123940139>>123940152>>123940249>>123940296>>123940436kill yourself
>thread with obvious CP embedded stays up 50 minutesFucking hell mods
bachcels absolutely seething itt
>>123940449Debussy folder?
>>123940472We use the ocassion to preach about Bach
>>123940472OP has at least 3 active threads about Bach. Dunno who is seething more to be honest.
>>123940436Why wouldn't the harmonization require creativity? You idiot - Bach's harmonizations are considered the apex of the art.
>>123940507That’s just theory that you can mechanically grind through with little thought.
>>123940491Do you think he was called Trevor Pincock in school?
>>123940499>he thinks it's just one guy
FUCK YOU PEDO
>>123940519Maybe Trevor Tinycock. He called himself THICKCOCK.
>>123940515>theory theory theoryWhat do you think that word means, I wonder...
What’s the point of specifying a piece’s key signature if your just going to modulate? Shake my head
>tfw too retarded to see the cp
>>123940521Yes, just one dude. Its always the same behaviour with schizos. And the text analysis reveals a single writing style. Picrel is OP an hour ago.
Listening to Scarlatti
>>123940601for me , it's K 209https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYyNLcxivF4
>Leif Segerstam has diedthe 371 symphonies he wrote are enough
>>123940720finally, an end to the nonsense
Ranking eras (objectively):Romantic > Classical > Baroque > Modernism > Renaissance > before Renaissance > after ModernismThis is non-arguable.
god what a fuckin' commute. let's start the day with Rilling conducting some Brahms choral stuffGesang der Parzen, Op. 89https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGm2VkyVvVQ&list=OLAK5uy_lEgBYCXeS-0cxzkYYZ-rxTiMF1166ernI&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lEgBYCXeS-0cxzkYYZ-rxTiMF1166ernI
>>123940720Oh, sad. Didn't know he composed as well, I only just discovered his Mahler cycle the other week. It has gorgeous production but everything else is quite mediocre and bland, not a single interesting interpretive idea and the only thing that stands out (aside from the production) is the slow tempo.
Music before Wagner was too restricted to be called music. Wagner the Hero who rode a beautiful white stud through the fields of valhalla uncaged the musical bird to its freedom, Wagner who released music from its mathematical chains and let it soar high in dramatical clouds ushered a new dawn in age of human history. We should all kill ourselves. Like seriously. Why are we all here? Just fucking jump off a building or something already."Excellence was already attained".
>As a Bernstein fan, I have on this Sinopoli recording all the elements that I wished I could find in Bernstein's recording with the VPO, but weren't there. There is an excessiveness (sorry for the term) and energy that drains me out every time I listen to this recording. Comparing to other 5ths that I ever listened, the only one that came close was Jansons on a live performance with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (I haven't listen to his recording yet).>Comparing to other 5ths that I ever listened, the only one that came close was Jansons on a live performance with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (I haven't listen to his recording yet)>(I haven't listen to his recording yet)Wait, what? How does it come close if he hasn't heard it yet? Whose hasn't he heard!? Fuckin' confusing writing. Sorry, I know this isn't interesting but I'm annoyed right now and this really peeved me.
>>123940966OMG Wagner <333
>>123940966thank you wagnersister
>>123940966Have sex.
Symphonies: BrahmsConcertos: BrahmsChamber music: BrahmsSolo keyboard: BrahmsOpera: WagnerChoral music: BrahmsTotals:Wagner: 1 pointBrahms: 5 pointsBrahms wins.
>>123935497Ah I see, thank you.
>>123941103what about lieder?
>>123934383My favorites of the past year: Wetz, Wolf-Ferrari, Machavariani. Those are all very romantic though.
>>123940315Alessandro did kind of look like one of those stick and cloth puppets though
>>123940966Wagner's wife rode a beautiful black stud
>>123941153wagner
>>123941236Awesome, thank you, added a recording of each.
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa5roCst1dM
>>123940436if you value melody over harmony like this you have no business in a classical music general. Just leave.
What was your favorite composer's daily routine like?
>>123942153wagner
now playingstart of Symphony No. 3 in B-Flat Major, Op. 48https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDD7ajcv5W4&list=OLAK5uy_mBMcF9aUuBE9y9g1kbdLaaF4h5CqgQx58&index=2Gesang des Lebens, Op.29https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMC3sQdOWQ4&list=OLAK5uy_mBMcF9aUuBE9y9g1kbdLaaF4h5CqgQx58&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mBMcF9aUuBE9y9g1kbdLaaF4h5CqgQx58Apparently, from what I've read, this guy's symphonies are very reminiscent of Bruckner's, so should be a good listen.
>>123942183Great answer.
>>123942109Melody is the very essence of music. Melody is the very soul of all music. Classical music is "Classical", because of melody, the harmony is just its language. You are not going to have any fun listening to pop or any other genre's "melodies", not are they only poor, but their entire context is inferior to that of Classical. If you do not value melody above all else, you can head straight out of here >>>/mu/>“Melody is the essence of music.”-Mozart
Strausshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGpheeke9U
Any storm themed Classical music?
>>123942109It's by far the most important feature of music
Which Mass in B minor recording should I listen to today? Learning towards Rilling's (pic related) or Shaw's (RCA), but if anyone has to recommend I'm all ears. I've heard several but there's always more!
>>123942262wagner
>>123942336cantata collective recording, not too fast for being HIP
I love piano concertos.
>>123942351This one? Alright thanks, will give it a listen. Which reminds me, I should finally get around to trying Karajan's soon, as well as his SMP.
>>123942369>Beethoven 5 > Beethoven 4>underrating Chopin orchestation>Rach>Gershwin
>>123942382yeah, that one
Can't believe you guys don't like this :(
>>123942393>yes, 5 > 4>chopin is only good at piano>yes, rachmaninoff is top tier>meh
Brahms is undefeated unironically.
>>123942441pleb
>>123942393chopin is one of the worst orchestrators who ever lived>>123942432why would we? it’s one of the worst missa solemnis recordings on the market.
>>123942491Yes, you are one. Now, go back to >>>/r/eddit
the brahmschad vs the virgin wagnersis
>chopin is one of the worst orchestratorsSad but true. Only if he had better teachers, a Chopin symphony could've changed the world.
>>123942369>Medtner 3 not in royalty
>>123942582if he had better teachers, chopin could have been a decent composer instead of a bleeding heart piano technician.
>>123942582Yeah, I imagine it would sound like a non-Russian Rachmaninoff, with hints of Liszt's orchestral music. Would have been good stuff.
How to identify a retard in /classical/?>listens to firetruck like Mahler>thinks Schoenberg is bad>doesn't recognize Schoenberg was good but not great>doesn't like Morton Feldman>thinks John Cage was a hack>thinks Beethoven is overrated>listens to Nazi WagnerWhat else?
>>123942346Well which piece by Wagner
>>123942625Your list is ridiculous. You only need to look out for one:>Types in lowercaseOh and Schoenberg fucking blows
>>123942654https://youtu.be/MU4nXZa4y08?si=BoPZsbwdwE_iXceF
>>123942432If you like it that's all that matters. That being said it's bad
>>123942262https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XqOdf_MN8Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbizB6NqiuY
Bruckner. For some reason, I hate this guy.I don’t remember when I first heard his music. But I do remember the impression it left: what the heck?It’s entirely possible I read about him before I heard any of his music. He was an insecure country bumpkin. His heroes were Wagner, Beethoven, tremolo, this rhythmic pattern, and Christ. He came to a Beethoven exhumation without permission and cradled the skull. And he was obsessed with teenage girls, even when he was old enough to be the girls’ grandfather, going so far as to keep a list of who he found physically desirable. I can deal with one or two creepy traits in an artist…because let’s face it, most of the great composers were creeps in one way or another…but Bruckner. He just takes the creepiness to a whole new level. For some reason literally nothing endears him to me. He seems like the great composer version of the lonely old guy who hangs around gas stations, mumbling things to himself and asking female clerks easily answerable questions. You know he’s probably harmless – maybe he’s even nice – but you have no desire to get any closer to find out.I listened through the eighth symphony the other day while reading through the IMSLP score. I was twitching throughout the entire thing. The music repelled me - repelled me in a way no other music ever had. And I couldn’t explain why, which made me even twitchier. I GUESS MAYBE BECAUSE EVERYTHING FELT AS IF IT WAS IN CAPITAL LETTERS! EVERYTHING WAS LIFE OR DEATH OR BRASS OR TREMOLO FOR NINETY MINUTES STRAIGHT! AND JUST WHEN I THOUGHT IT WAS ALMOST OVER I LOOKED AT THE CLOCK AND SAW THERE WAS STILL AN HOUR LEFT TO GO OH MY GOD SOMEONE GET ME OUT OF HERE!
>>123942850https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQoEIfzZp1c
>>123942625>What else?Add one:>Makes lists
chudner was a literal chud
now playing (Piano Sonata no. 26, Op. 81a "Les Adieux)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TckC3lKxr1Q&list=OLAK5uy_nw7N6BAkN4FH8YXmotmx040VoLsCXXp5c&index=87https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nw7N6BAkN4FH8YXmotmx040VoLsCXXp5c
Favorite recording(s) of Beethoven's Bagatelles?
>>123942620Yep. But I still value his music and he wrote some of the greatest piano pieces of all time, so maybe it was a worthy trade-off.
>>123942559Based!
>"In my opinion, each number in Figaro is a miracle; it is totally beyond me how anyone could create anything so perfect; nothing like it was ever done again, not even by Beethoven."
>>123942925https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVl9txM-baE
now playingstart of J.S. Bach: Magnificat in D Major, BWV 243https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8H839Gah3M&list=OLAK5uy_nH9RqwvYaES1HzZ5ON6GDN43FUX_5-YzM&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nH9RqwvYaES1HzZ5ON6GDN43FUX_5-YzM
As someone not heavily invested into classical music or /cmg/, can anyone give me a quick rundown on the Wagner meta?
>>123943041It was 73, Brahmscuck was on /classical/ with the trusty Sibelius. I'd never seen Vagner before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Vagner was a tranny meme, and it certainly showed in its humor. I distinctly remember smirking to the memes. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in first syllable of the word Vagner, when happened the eponymous vag.Vagina! A single pun, and just after Wagner’s name! I burst out laughing. "Oh Brahmscuck" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"/classical/ attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous Vagner by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Brahmscuck genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the Vagner, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the next Brahmscuck post, when the Vagner surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.They only managed to removed me from the thread putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the board in urine.
>>123942625thank you wagnersister>>123942657thank you obsessed schizo>>123942850thank you reddit
That Brahmscuck? Albert Einstein.
Brahmsisters… the Wagnerchads are dunking on us again..
The Brahmscuck is falseflagging to make Wagner look bad.
I don't know about you all, but being a trans girl in a society that barely acknowledges our existence can be exhausting. There are times when I feel like I'm losing my mind, and my thoughts are a jumbled mess. That's where fugues come in. It might sound counterintuitive, but listening to fugues has been a great way for me to deal with my brainworms. You know, those repetitive and intrusive thoughts that just won't leave you alone.When I put on a fugue, it's like my brain finally has something to focus on. The repetition and structure of the music give me a sense of order, and my thoughts start to fall in line with the theme. It's like the fugue becomes a mental anchor, pulling me out of the chaos and into a state of clarity.Of course, it's not a cure-all. There are times when my brainworms are too strong for a fugue to handle, and I need to seek out other forms of self-care. But for those moments when I just need a little bit of relief, fugues are my go-to.I know it might sound weird to some people, but finding little ways to cope with my transness can make a huge difference in my mental health. And if that means listening to Bach on repeat for hours on end, then so be it.
>>123943113Now, I didn't necessarily mean you sisterjanny
I'm trans and I dislike Rachmaninoff. German imperialist classical music for this feel?
>>123943113>thank you wagnersisterDid you even read the post you were replying
let's try<-----Brahms: Tragic Overture, Op. 81https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYskgNk8RFU&list=OLAK5uy_m_adrRopY1TtzEI_qhKjIn0oYyPB0LhGo&index=6start of Brahms: Symphony No. 4 in E Minor, Op. 98https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTPdZLW5nE&list=OLAK5uy_m_adrRopY1TtzEI_qhKjIn0oYyPB0LhGo&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m_adrRopY1TtzEI_qhKjIn0oYyPB0LhGo
The Brahmscuck is falseflagging to make Wagner look good.
>>123943205Richard Wagner - Tannhauser
>>123943292So on this live recording the Tragic Overture comes after the 4th. Is that really how it would be played in concert? I thought the overture was supposed to be the opening?
>>123942850I guess it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Fauré is my favorite composer, and the two couldn’t be more different. Bruckner is sun, Fauré is moon. Fauré is the wistful urban sophisticate who sums up delicate, ephemeral emotions in emotionally ambiguous nocturnes. Bruckner is the one who apparently can’t say anything worthwhile without a hundred-piece brass section blowing away for over an hour.But I’ve been thinking about it, and realizing I’m not giving Bruckner a fair shake. Since I learned his biography before I had a chance to really dig into his music, I know I was biased against it from the start. Should what a composer did in his life influence what we think of his work? I don’t know that it should – so why does it? Personal life aside, why is his work so repellent to me? (Because I’m pretty sure I’d still hate it even if I thought he was a super amazing guy…) What exactly about his work is repellent to me? Orchestration? Harmony? Tempo? Lack of contrast? Everything? How can one person cry at one passage’s strength and beauty while I start cackling at its absurdity? Will I someday hear a Bruckner interpretation that I enjoy? How much of my hatred is the fault of conductors and performers? How much of my hatred is my fault? What exactly causes certain people to love certain styles of music, and others to loathe others? Could I ever – gasp – love Bruckner, if I invested the time and energy and resisted the ever-present urge to make fun of him?Stop making me think, Bruckner! It was so much easier when I could just point and laugh at you.
>>123941544Well, /classical/?
>>123942850>And he was obsessed with teenage girls, even when he was old enough to be the girls’ grandfather, going so far as to keep a list of who he found physically desirable.wtf i love Bruckner now? i will now listen to his music with an erotic lens
>>123942262Alexander Scriabin: Piano Sonata No.2 (second movement)Kurt Atterberg: Symphony No.3 (second movement)Beethoven: Symphony No.6 (fourth movement)Bax: November Woods
>>123943370too many brahmtrannies
>>123942262https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpOzPaQoSg&t=2249
>>123943168thank you obsessed schizo>>123943271you caught me, i didn’t bother fully reading the RYMtranny bait>>123943336great question rsddit>>123943677so true wagnersister, so true
>>123943677what's hinduism got to do with classical
>>123943900they overlap in the form of rachjeets, obviously
Bachmaninoff.https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1728340160595510.webm
>>123940119>Filtered by BachY'all atheists just really struggle with Christian music, I know
>>123943919speak of the devil >>123943942
>>123943983I think Bach haters are utterly tone deaf and retarded but being anything but an atheist after 1989 is nothing but embarassing.
>Y'all
>>123944010True.
>>123942153
>>123944010>He's an atheist I can't think of a bigger cope, and from a classical music listener the cognitive dissonance must be suffocating
>Beethoven was a coffeefagHow unfortunate.
>>123944369Just like Bach.
>anon, this classical song is hella mid!>finna skibidi some classical that straight up slaps, and goes hardwell, what do you do, /classical/?
>>123943024Nice
>>123944379Or Mozart
>>123944380Turn up the volume
I am about to sell my house, quit my job, and go around spreading the word of our Lord Saviour Johannes Brahms. Ever since I began my odyssey through classical music, I had one certainty: romanticism. Brahms was the one who carried me on back during the pandemic, I got to know his symphonic work, and I went deeper to the point that for the first time I became interested in listening guides, knowing dozens of recordings (of the Second, I counted 43 and my favorite is the Third). And in those 3 years, it was the most common name on my headphones, according to Spotify itself. Recently I started trying his chamber repertoire. And if anyone here can explain to me what happens in his Second Sextet or Second Violin Sonata, I'd gladly listen to it. It has no logical explanation. I just can't conceive that a human being like me or you composed this. It's too magical for this world. I write this post as a passionate fan, hoping to find more passionate fans and more recommendations of this Master.
>>123944380I can't tell if the youth have gotten more attractive or they just know how to maximize what they've got more.
>>123942246>>123942280You cannot separate Mozart's melody from his harmony, retards. Mozart was including harmony when he said this about melody.
>>123942654Die Walkure act 1 prelude, act 2 finale, act 3 when Wotan comes it.
>>123942559Brahms was a whiny loser who wrote boring conservative music.
Prokofievhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0En8-7kxLU
>>123944453it’s all makeup old man, get with the times>>123944500thank you wagnersister
i love schutz
>>123944380Those are millennials
Wagner's music has no rhythm, its harmony is so stretched out that it is barely audible, it has no counterpoint, no melody ; its qualities are fundamentally negative, --- Wagner is, thus, the perfect example of this degeneracy of music, which is fundamentally a critique of music ; and all critique stems from a lower position, a will to slander that which we cannot attain.
Schoenberghttps://youtu.be/4po3zSPTexYBanger
Shostakovich's Jazz Suites are really quite exquisitehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ6dWoQut_0&list=OLAK5uy_mK8FpkuUclJOOLV8xB5OaehciS05QuBnQ&index=1
>>123944829exquisitely sickening, yes
Zappahttps://youtu.be/dPS689aJO9U
>>123943900https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9iVxMSlyJU
>>123944626>the sisterposter is a zoomer who keeps up with pokimane lorewagner sucks no cap, fr fr
This is really Hurwitz's reference recording for Beethoven's 9th? Guess I can give it a shot...
>>123944974there’s lore to a mid looking hoe that needs makeup to attract simps?>>123944981it’s a fucking snooze, but don’t say i didn’t warn you.
>>123944626Man I should have become a streamer, I look like the male version of this, but more attractive. Could have made bank off of all the female and gay simps, didn't know my eurasian mix would be so appealing till it was too late.
>>123944721The melodic concentration in Tristan is inseparable from the rhythmic vitality of the motives. Wagner is not often thought of as a rhythmic innovator or even as a particularly rhythmic composer. That is partly because our ideas of rhythm have been shaped by the external ostinato rhythms of popular music, so that we have to a certain extent lost sight of the origins of rhythm in a melodic line. Wagner is actually one of the great rhythmists. This is so in spite and because of the fact that he hardly ever uses percussion as a rhythm-generating device.Whereas Beethoven’s rhythmic motives have a pronounced downbeat emphasis (as in the first movements of the violin concerto, the third piano concerto, and the Fifth Symphony), in Tristan the emphasis is almost invariably off the beat or cancelled by a syncopation. Indeed, it is no exaggeration to say that Wagner’s treatment of rhythm in Tristan has the same subversive effect as his treatment of melody and harmon.
>>123945014>all the female and gay simpsThey don't exist bro.
>>123945014your audience would mostly be horny old gay men and you’d probably get groomed into becoming a tranny like finnster, just so you know. >>123945029thank you wagnersister
>>123945040Hence why I didn't do it!
>>123945029Wagner just used lots of anticipations and suspensions in the Tristan prelude. The harmonic pulse is clearly in 6/8 time.
Wagner is closer to Hans Zimmer than to Brahms.
>>123944988>it’s a fucking snooze, but don’t say i didn’t warn you.Hmm, yeah I just can't pull the trigger on pressing play on Wand's Beethoven lol. After a lot of searching and reading, gonna go with Bohm's first 9th with Vienna.
>>123945103I will slit your throat.
It seems that Wagner loves with a predilection feudal pomp, Homeric assemblies where lies an accumulation of vital force, enthusiastic crowds, reservoir of human electricity, from which the heroic style springs with natural impetuosity. The wedding music and the epithalamus of Lohengrin make a worthy counterpart to the introduction of the guests to the Wartburg in Tannhäuser, perhaps even more majestic and more vehement. However, the master, always full of taste and attentive to nuances, did not represent here the turbulence that in such a case would manifest a commoner crowd. Even at the height of its most violent tumult, the music expresses only the delirium of people accustomed to the rules of etiquette; it is a court that enjoys itself, and its liveliest intoxication still keeps the rhythm of decency. The choppy joy of the crowd alternates with the epithalamium, soft, tender and solemn; the turmoil of public joy contrasts several times with the discreet and tender hymn which celebrates the union of Elsa and Lohengrin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dytT5OnXU0Ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQlG8YRxEQ
>>123945117bohm’s 9ths aren’t very good either. honestly, all of bohm’s beethoven is so turgid. >>123945142thanks wagnersis
>>123945167It's always been amusing to me that you like your Bach slow and majestic when most of the industry has gone the other way, and with your Beethoven you like it fast and agile, yet again opposing the common performance practice since the middle of the 20th century lol.
>>123945231i don’t like my bach slow, i just don’t like tiny orchestras, out of tune intonation, clipped phrases, or shrill vibrato-less playing.
>>123945306Fair. Just wanted some symmetry in my statement!
>>123945231Beethoven common practice hasn't been slow for a very long time. Gutless, yes. Slow, no.That's our mutual source of agitation. We want Beethoven's intended tempo for his works without flaccid modern performance practices.
Wagner just clicked for me. Wow.
>>123945661What work and which scene?
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT WAGNER GOD DAMN
W
im scared
>>123945970>"Show me your best impressive of Beethoven"
Something magical about Beethoven symphony no5 - 4 allegro bros..
>>123940196>>123940210?
>>123945700no
>>123940119>(embed)Kys phoneposter
>>123947435boom
What is some classical music for when you feel like shit but gotta work
>>123947489Wagner The Ring
>>123947489https://youtu.be/zpMdr9nBJc0?si=3d8hZoJwIiMDmj7k
>>123947587Heh
>>123947489>animeschizo listening to anything at all besides mozart and bachOpposite day?
>>123947863I post other composers all the time, doe
Prelude and Fugue >>>> sonata
>>123947917Sonata is a much better form.
>>123944478You cannot seperate any melody from harmony at all, dumbass. Every melody has harmony in itself, even serial melodies tend to be in harmony. Your origin comment was retarded.
Rach 3 finale sounds like circus on fire
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0xm_oOaSYY
>>123948604Man the continuo is so boring. Are there any continuo players that do something creative with their playing? I hate it when a piece has continuo and the harpsichordist is just smashing down chords on the bassline and sometimes playing an arpeggio, isnt there more freedom to continuo than that?
>>123948642>Are there any continuo players that do something creative with their playing? ISeconding this
>>123948668>>123948642Robert levin, but he only playa pieces that shouldnt have continuo and adds it
>>123948642Most just play continuo according to the score and only play the written chords.
In his time he was considered inferior to Vivaldi, Handel and every other relevant composer. Bach fans are insufferable. They can't comprehend that not everyone likes Bach's terrible music. Most people have not even heard of him.I see a lot of degenerate philistines saying that Bach is “greatest composer to have ever lived” and I can’t believe my eyes when I see such a statement so today I will explain why Bach is the worst composer to have ever lived.His music is so lifeless like it was composed for math class or something. It sounds like an exercise that he had to write. there is no heart in it like Beethoven or Vivaldi who was a better baroque composer anyway. He’s just counterpoint, there’s no polyphony, no melody, no harmony, nothing. Just counterpoint
IListen to his invention no.8 in f major for reference, where’s the melody? Exactly, there is no melody. Surely someone who is the “greatest composer” would know more then just writing pretty canons and fugues!He didn’t write an opera. At first this doesn’t seem like a big deal but to be one of the greats (i.e Brahms Chopin, Liszt) you have to write everything including a opera. Bach never wrote an opera. The closest he wrote was a bunch of boring cantatas that have no purpose whatsoever.He had no sense of dynamics and other markings. I recently opened up my 50 dollar Henle urtext from the Juilliard store that had Bach’s well tempered clavier and I saw no dynamics, no crescendo, no tempo, nothing. It was just the notes, to be a great musician you have to understand dynamics and phrasing not just knowing how to write notes on a manuscript paper.
I then opened up my 100 dollar Henle urtext also from the Juilliard store Beethoven sonatas and I saw so much expression details which there is none in Bach.Seriously, just listen to the Art of Fugue? Like, who does he think he is just abandoning randomly harmonic conventions like he is better than every one else. Look at Contrapunctus 3 where his countersubject bears no interval or tonal resemblance to his subject. He is boring and dumb, the worst combo.His most famous keyboard work, the Goldberg Variations, was originally written to put an aristocrat to sleep. And, bearing in mind that it consists of 30 variations on not only the same theme but also the same fucking harmonic sequence, it has the very same effect on modern audiences.The Well-Tempered Clavier is garbage and taught Mozart and Beethoven bad habits that forever stunted their expertise in composition.The Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos, Orchestral Suites, Mass in B minor, Passions, and Musical Offering are plebeian trash written with mass appeal in mind.The Art of Fugue is utter dreck and the worst piece ever written. It's a load of worthless pedantic wankery which literally serves no purpose other than to demonstrate counterpoint. It's hilariously samey and repetitive, which makes sense since it inverts the same fucking melodies to create new counterpoints and does this over and over and over.Bach never managed to compose anything of even relative worth. Rather than exploring new styles he preferred to jack off alone to the outdated style of ages past, in a manner very similar to modern "wrong generationers."
Best Beethoven symphonies 7 and 8?
>>123948806>>123948820>>123948833>bach hater is a trannyFucking rofl
>>123948992Wasnt there this one university clip of a zoomer saying he cannot pwrform bach because his works were white supremacist or something kek
>>123949006>>123948992>>123948833>>123948820>>123948806Bach is shit.
>>123949039Kill yourself
>>123948642Thirding
Bach and before, Ives and after.
>>123949109The shitty periods of music
>>123949115The romantic and classical era? I agree
>>123948356>You cannot seperate any melody from harmony at allYeah, that's the point, you fucking idiot. Although obviously there are plenty of historical examples of melody without harmony, so your insistence that every melody has harmony is really stupid. I didn't make the original comment.
>>123948642>>123948683I do like levin, would like to hear someone do what he does but with baroque music. His Bach harpsichord concerto recordings are one of my favorites.
>>123949644levin is by far my favorite HIPster
post your top 5 operas
>>123950026Wagner
Sex. That is what I think when I listen to Scriabin. Literally just sex.
>>123949496A melody can function as a harmonic progression, or it can imply a harmonic progression in major/minor triads depending on the accents assigned to it.
ChriswildmanDec 2007, 1:56pmany good reason for bothering to explore this guy's music?tz0dApr 2008, 2:32pmHey Chriswildman, Here's a reason: Because honegger is timeless and honest. I suppose arthur isn't quite jewish enough to gain the praise of the american classical community, you twit.kek
>>123949496>Yeah, that's the point, you fucking idiot. And that fucking point has nothing to do whatsoever with your original (incorrect) statement.
A Midsummer Night's Dream Overture.https://youtu.be/SEkcP8lZvZA?si=LqoZUWXNucQo3ocs
>>123950335>>123950369stop ban evading, pedophile kraut
*blocks your path*
>>123948954Just listen to Karajan's.
can we have one thread without the wagnertism?
let's start the day with one of the greatest achievements not only in music, but one anything mankind has ever done, Beethoven's String Quartet No. 14, Op. 131.start of String Quartet No. 14 in C Sharp Minor, Op. 131https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SznwF3D5s&list=OLAK5uy_n_vc0hJFDEfvz6RDajG7lqjplDfroaiWk&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n_vc0hJFDEfvz6RDajG7lqjplDfroaiWk
>>123950026The Ring (it's one opera as far as I care)Nozze di FigaroMeistersingerMagic FluteBarbiere
So after Klemperer's, who has the best recording of Mahler's 2nd? Solti? Bernstein? Kubelik? Tennstedt? Slatkin? Fischer? Mehta? Chailly? Litton? or another? Personally I think it's a work which has many outstanding recordings, with many valid answers to this question, so just curious.
>>123952253garbage>>123952419i don’t see the point of having a silver medalist recording, but i think jurowski and ozawa’s saito kinen remake are quite good. it’s definitely not bernstein with his hideous distending of the finale’s coda.
>>123952504>garbageThen at least post a rec
>>123952504Variety of interpretation, producing different emotions and/or phrasings. Like Jurowski's is muscular and bombastic (excellent choice there), Mehta's is fast and thrilling, and Fischer's is just a distinctive kind of poetry compared to Klemperer's. Haven't heard Ozawa's, will check it out, thanks; I should go through his Mahler in general but worried it would be kinda bland.
>>123952727the beethoven symphonies have been discussed ad infinitum in these threads, if you can’t find entire lists of recommendations in the archives on your own then maybe you do deserve karajan’s stringslop. >>123952757i don’t see the point when klemperer’s just sounds better. mahler 2 is really not interesting enough of a work to warrant such a wide spectrum of interpretations. >I should go through his Mahler in general but worried it would be kinda bland.you’d be right, but his saito kinen mahler 2 is a lot better.
>>123952757>Haven't heard Ozawa's, will check it out, thanks; I should go through his Mahler in general but worried it would be kinda blandI really like his Boston 9th
>>123952910>i don’t see the point when klemperer’s just sounds better. mahler 2 is really not interesting enough of a work to warrant such a wide spectrum of interpretations.I see different interpretations as almost like distinct versions of the same work. So while Klemperer's is a 10/10, sometimes I wanna hear a different version, even if it's only a 9/10. And yeah I've always been in agreeance that it's one of Mahler's weaker ones, but hey, I love them all.>>123952980Yeah? Was gonna listen to Sinopoli's 9th tonight but I might give that one a go instead, thanks.
>>123952910>>123953129Of course, this means I completely agree that there is no point in listening to a recording which approaches the work in a similar way to Klemperer because in that scenario you're correct, it's merely an inferior experience of the same version. But when it's different, and offers things Klemperer's doesn't even if his is overall better, well, nice to have those around too.
>>123948954Markevitch for 8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TdoPcFtLEg&list=OLAK5uy_kSOST6b1n71SIQpyKstfY0JkCjAGESOV8&index=10
now playingstart of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 15https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQDCwNHbpVQ&list=OLAK5uy_kx_mPqQ4f_BMIoTGEfwcNqsMPqi2IF7fY&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kx_mPqQ4f_BMIoTGEfwcNqsMPqi2IF7fY
Alright, Rach 3 is epic.
>>123952980subpar>>123953180maybe, but i pretty much never listen to jurowski or ozawa because i always listen to klemperer when i want mahler 2, which is not very often anyways>>123953239incredible recording, horrible mastering. that classical music reference recording guy is such a faggot.
>>123952910>you can’t find entire lists of recommendations in the archivesThere are shittons of recs in the archives but then there's you claiming Karajan is shit, so how do I find your "approved" list exactly?
>>123953378who in the archives is recommending karajan for 8?
>>123953441Karajan cycle recs are all over the place.
>>123953522no one is recommending karajan for 8. no one.
>>123940119I just noticed these threads aren't very good, at least not this one.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja_AhHjGbRk&ab_channel=Dackelfreundin
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3a19AJKU0&list=OLAK5uy_nO0TXwfedd3OQYU4F-gnlRI9vaodxQwiU&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nO0TXwfedd3OQYU4F-gnlRI9vaodxQwiU
Currently spinning some Apceний Aвpaaмoв
Recorders Gone Wild https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXkRgUvY6PM&ab_channel=TheRoyalWindMusic
Karajan and Giulini for Bruckner's 7th, both with Vienna -- does anyone else even come close?
>>123953911van beinum, duh. giulini’s isn’t very good to begin with.
Rhapsody in Bluehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U-IXWaapx4&ab_channel=ChickenMan
>>123953955My issue with van Beinum is so many of his recordings sound like they were recorded from down the hall with a $10 headset. Fantastic playing from the Concertgebouw and approach to Bruckner's 7th, but as a recording to return to time and time again, it just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
>>123954083He doesn't have very many stereo recordings, that's true, but I don't really take issue with any of his Bruckner sonically. Sure, they're all in mono, but they're quite good mono for the period. Especially the 8th.
RGW 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x52-VKWI9hg&ab_channel=TheRoyalWindMusic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB9USv8VYvA&ab_channel=VividConsort
now playing (Bagatelles, Op. 33 and Op. 119)start of Beethoven: 7 Bagatelles, Op. 33https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbAZVdc9PQU&list=OLAK5uy_kwXcO4qgWDSWfM0s_3JvjiAkUEgFvu5UM&index=41start of Beethoven: 11 Bagatelles, Op. 119https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5jx_dtbB7Q&list=OLAK5uy_kwXcO4qgWDSWfM0s_3JvjiAkUEgFvu5UM&index=56https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kwXcO4qgWDSWfM0s_3JvjiAkUEgFvu5UM
>>123953265https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J7UZv9JH28
Masonic Funeral Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFlNAl7HQQ&ab_channel=Neo-Classical
>>123954730Neat, added for next time I listen to the Brahms piano concertos, thanks.
>>123954730sucks
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7yKm6BtCs
I gotta say, classical isn't great for daydreaming.
>>123953239Thank you!! Best rec for 7?
>>123955113https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuzRkGqJx_U
How come no one told me about this third Prokofiev ballet!? now playingstart of The Tale of the Stone Flower, Op. 118https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVyc6hD1Ddc&list=OLAK5uy_mxANBtnGMWHyKIHhSC8vnm3IeR69yE5Y8&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mxANBtnGMWHyKIHhSC8vnm3IeR69yE5Y8
It's you who needs help, if you think "formalistic German genius" describes Vagner better than the terms normally and justly applied to Mahler &co.: Bloated Meandering Firetruck Garbage for impressionable teens such as you.
>>123955125sooooo dull
>>123955503What do you prefer?
Hopefully, one not-too-distant day, there will be a clear demarcation between a great musician like Mendelssohn, who never sold much, and bloated messes like Wagner. At such a time, critics will study their history and understand which artists accomplished which musical feat, and which simply exploited it politically.
>>123955510szell and cleveland. hell, i’d take daddy kleiber over snoozy carlos
>>123955113https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM0nLXJGwmE&list=OLAK5uy_lc6umkNxcKmn6NXM1-ifEKisWcu2udWz0&index=22
>>123955654thank you hisster sister
>>123945970https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCIrqmTF9bA
>>123955671Have sex
>>123955703dont rile him, it's /classical/ doghe barks at every passing anon on this general
>>123955703you too, hisster sister>>123955731thanks schizo sister
Stockhausen https://youtu.be/l_UHaulsw3M?si=UwrTUiWzbiKkMH9Y
Large Cock Ravel Piano Concerto for the Left Hand in D majorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CfNX10fCWU&ab_channel=LeConsortiumdesM%C3%A9lomanes
>>123955753good boy
>>123955731Lol that's a good description
>>123955835thanks RYMtranny>>123955879>>123955883thank you schizo sisters
>>123956001Dog
Once you take away all the transcriptions, arrangements, variations, versions, fantaisies on themes from operas, paraphrases, etc. of music by other authors, and once you take away all the alternative versions, piano/orchestral transcriptions, revisions, recyclings, remakes, etc. of his own music, turns out Liszt wrote *very* little. Out of his almost 800 works, less than half are original music, and about a third of that isn't a rehash or a second/third/fourth/etc version of an older work. His entire oeuvre, even admitting for example the orchestrated versions of some of his solo piano stuff which are very good (like 6 of his 19 Hungarian Rhapsodies, which aren't even 100% original compositions), only barely reaches around 100, and that's with the help of dozens of pointless, <1m-long album leaves. Less than an eight of all of the published works to his name are made up of his own music, even tolerating rehashes. Talk about overrated hacks.
>>123956001>thank you schizo sisters
>>123956001woof sister woof
>>123956032That's the key, just write about 100 really good pieces, rather than cranking out a 1000 plus pieces of slop
>>123956032His late works are astoundingly good, though.
>>123956032all of Liszt's original compositions are beautifully crafted and those who dismiss Liszt as a mere virtuoso pianist are morons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSHwX2O7j2w
>>123956125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbCD3CAE1WEAmen. La Lugubre Gondola II is such an amazing work.
>>123951285woof.
now playingstart of Liszt: 12 Études d'exécution transcendante, S. 139https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyFmvXaj1Rk&list=OLAK5uy_mVXWXvQVF6TDFcLV1dRR4z5irWzTPBPj8&index=2start of the second half of the album, after the Transcendental Etudeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqq1ub8TJ5o&list=OLAK5uy_mVXWXvQVF6TDFcLV1dRR4z5irWzTPBPj8&index=13https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVXWXvQVF6TDFcLV1dRR4z5irWzTPBPj8
>>123955113https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-XI29-6WfM&list=OLAK5uy_mza4YOIlS3H1aFc94ET7Wfhw64aInISLo&index=5But honestly, there are a lot of great recordings of Beethoven's symphonies, especially the 7th.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfR971Ua8no
>>123956574Get help.
>>123956020>>123956055>>123956061>>123956503thank you schizo sister>>123956574put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>123956579https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP14hptif5Q
Recording aside, Strauss' Death and Transfiguration has got to be the best orchestral pairing with Mahler's 9th, no?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt5XLfmNoKc&list=OLAK5uy_kFlK3TqUR3kkpPQH80B9UPbfIeCJPm0p8&index=6intohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AQOk2U_xzk&list=OLAK5uy_kFlK3TqUR3kkpPQH80B9UPbfIeCJPm0p8&index=2
>>123956606https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tacWORiyVBU
>>123956625>>123956640tripcode back on, groomer germ
>>123956631Maybe something like this into the 7th:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlAlrEY6o6o&list=OLAK5uy_kenUWkKvnAKrQZQ3gZi24GxKLb2cK00Ck&index=2
>>123956648woof woof
>>123956781stop spamming and put your trip back on, kiddydiddler kraut
Is Adorno a respected and quality musicologist/philosopher of music? Or is he on par with schizo-ramblings, with his whole shtick of the emancipatory potential of artistic innovation founded on a critical theory analysis of the social effects inherent within the formal aspects of music (and the arts as a whole) merely just ad hoc justification for his cultural tastes wrapped in revolutionary Marxist politics?
>>123956846a little bit of both
>>123956815>t.
>>123956846He was a retarded Jew, but I repeat myself.
>>123956885yes, we know you want to fuck dogs german pedophile, no need to say it out loud. now put your trip back on. >>123956899stop ban evading, pedophile kraut
>>123956846Adorno's Kulturindustrie is still the fiercest critique of popular music there is, and you won't find a more articulate or passionate defender of Beethoven than him in this century.Far from supporting relativism, critical theory, especially the Dialektik der Aufklärung, is a defense of the universal values of the enlightenment. Marxists are also the fiercest critics of post-structuralism and "post-modern" thinking and other idealist/nominalist ideologies.
>>123956882So if I wanna bring about the end of capitalism and the emancipation of the subject and working class, instead of handing out political pamphlets and hosting rallies, I should be handing out QR codes which pull up Schoenberg pieces and hosting Webern listening pasties? I knew it...>>123956945Oh I know, that's why I love him. Good reply.
>>123956953parties*, not pasties, wtf
>>123952419
>>123956945What did Adorno say about Beethoven?
new>>123957023>>123957023get in
>>123956071>just write about 100 really good pieces, rather than cranking out a 1000 or, if you are Bach Haydn or Mozart, do both
>>123957024Based. While not my absolute favorite, probably my most listen to recording of the 2nd, and certainly in my top 3.
