Mozart Editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZLnY21s-zkThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious:>>124139025
Handelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmoQi1i1to
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>>124144499"Mozart is the incarnation of music."Joseph Haydn"The fact that most people do not understand and respect the very best things, such as Mozart's concertos, is what permits men like us to become famous."Johannes Brahms"I have always reckoned myself among the greatest admirers of Mozart, and shall do so till the day of my death."Ludwig van Beethoven"Mozart is sweet sunshine."Antonin Dvorak"Oh Mozart, immortal Mozart, how many, how infinitely many inspiring suggestions of a finer, better life you have left in our souls!"Franz Schubert"Does it not seem as if Mozart's works become fresher and fresher the oftener we hear them?"Robert Schumann"Mozart is the highest, the culminating point that beauty has attained in the sphere of music.""Mozart is the musical Christ."Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky"Give Mozart a fairy tale and he creates without effort an immortal masterpiece."Camille Saint-Saens"Mozart's music is particularly difficult to perform. His admirable clarity exacts absolute cleanness: the slightest mistake in it stands out like black on white. It is music in which all the notes must be heard."Gabriel Faure"Certain things in Mozart will and can never be excelled.""The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts."Richard Wagner"The most perfect melodic shapes are found in Mozart; he has the lightness of touch which is the true objective. Listen to the remarkable expansion of a Mozart melody, to Cherubino's 'Voi che sapete', for instance. You think it is coming to an end, but it goes farther, even farther."Richard Strauss"I owe very, very much to Mozart; and if one studies, for instance, the way in which I write for string quartet, then one cannot deny that I have learned this directly from Mozart. And I am proud of it!"Arnold Schoenberg
Liszt :Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia2ctb5sVDA&list=OLAK5uy_mcsajp4B8jRSbZq19qtp_iiYjMZWTmk_k
>>124144313dude, you're literally just repeating everything i've already said in earlier posts back to me. you're such an insufferable pseud. from the start i've been saying that voice leading is a function of intervalic behavior between voices and not a sole aspect of an individual voice, which is contrary to what you've been saying. now you're trying to argue that there are imaginary melodic writing rules that also magically fix every single issue you could possibly have with intervallic dissonances; fuck off. >But if you understand voice leading, instead of memorising intervalic rules, then you can also tell when they don't.parallel perfect intervals are never allowed in species counterpoint, so this is obviously bullshit. >>124144464>You said you've seen Gran; he mentions it in almost every single video.cool, gran isn't my species counterpoint teacher. i'm not beholden to follow his terminology. >You're not ready.i obviously am given i graduated species counterpoint class years ago and you clearly haven't considering you don't even understand how to resolve dissonant suspensions. >Everyone in this thread has seen Jacob Gran or studied counterpoint in some capacity.LOL, most people in this thread probably can't even read sheet music. you're fucking delusional.
>>124144499William Byrd reborn as...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmrAeH7Wvlc
>>124144499
>>124144593>Voi che sapetehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH93uhBs5m8
>>124144639much better music than chopin.
>>124144639>>124144543Meant for
>>124144217Good stuff.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziHtN_v3iJg&list=OLAK5uy_krZHebTWIQZ_cu1GyUvxjWzKPPerVlKx0&index=15
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LPP3otHzlE
Speaking of Mozart, favorite recording(s) of his Piano Quartets? I've heard a few but none have really completely satisfied for those wonderful pieces.
>>124144679curzon maybe
>>124144593>from the start I've been saying that voice leading is a function of intervalic behavior between voicesThen an entire thread later, you still have no clue what I said.I'm telling you voice leading is primarily melodic, and even with multiple voices, it's about the smoothness and balance of the whole set of voices, as an extension of the principles of melodic fluency, structural balance, and goal-directedness of a single voice. Intervalic behavior is a consequence of applying these principles, and species counterpoint is a training wheels exercise to give you a sense for good voice leading, but it's the finger pointing at the moon. The rules for intervalic behavior are an (imperfect) attempt to rigorously formalise and reduce good voice leading to something that a monkey can follow, but good voice leading is NOT reducible to that, and until you understand that you will never, ever, ever, ever, ever graduate from first species counterpoint exercises, let alone a counterpoint course. Whoever graduated you should be fired immediately and lose his/her teaching licence.I'm done giving you free music tutoring until you finish your homework. If you say you've done it all before, then find it and post it here.
>>124144740>I'm telling you voice leading is primarily melodic, and even with multiple voices, it's about the smoothness and balance of the whole set of voicesyeah, and you can't have voice leading with a single voice because it reduces it to a function of melodic contour and balance. my point from the start has been that voice leading has always been a function of multiple voices and cannot be analyzed independently on its own. admittedly, reducing it to pure intervallic motion is an overexaggeration, but the point was to illustrate that you were entirely neglecting a core component of the fundamentals of voice leading. >Intervalic behavior is a consequence of applying these principlesno, you don't magically get good intervallic behavior by writing melodies with good contour. these are entirely separate functions that have to be balanced, and this balance is what creates good voice leading. >The rules for intervalic behavior are an (imperfect) attempt to rigorously formalise and reduce good voice leading to something that a monkey can followno, not really; the point of intervallic behavior is to illustrate the fundamental goal of species counterpoint; what intervals can and cannot work between two or more voices; and how to correctly treat movement from one note to the next depending on the preceding/proceeding interval. this not hard to understand at all. >good voice leading is NOT reducible to that,of course not, but bad voice leading is either due to poor handling of intervallic motion or poor melodic contour. pretending that >Whoever graduated you should be fired immediately and lose his/her teaching licence.i can assure you he is a far, far greater pedagogue than you ever will be, even at your most condescending and pompous. >If you say you've done it all before, then find it and post it here.i don't have anything to prove to you, faggot; not until you prove you understand what resolving a dissonant suspension is. fuck off.
>>124144499are parallel fifths allowed when going from a E-major triad to an F-minor triad in four-part writing? please explain the reasoning behind your answer.
>>124144740>>124144865get a room.
>>124144868put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124144865>of course not, but bad voice leading is either due to poor handling of intervallic motion or poor melodic contour.*pretending that melodic contour is the only aspect of voice leading that affects whether or not it's bad is fucking delusional
>>124144626She's quite fine; very elegant. But I prefer the Mozart pianism of Gieseking, Horszowski, Lipatti, and Backhaus.
>>124144865Explain to the folks what dissonant suspensions are
>>124144886answer the question, TJ.
>>124144886Debunked:https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/122901034/#q122918033
>>124144679I like Szell's recording with, I think, the Budapest. (Forget at the moment.) Szell was a splendid pianist.
>>124144920TJ doesn't know what he's talking about. don't even bother conversing with him.
>>124144925put your trip back on, pedophile kraut>>124144941schizophrenic episodes are not exclusive from pedophilia. >>124144943thank you musically illiterate schizo sister
>>124144941TJ can't even answer my relatively simple question despite claiming to be an expert on voice leading.
>>124144957i'm not interested in answering questions from ban evading pedophiles.
You're both right Its like (a) fugue, its both
>>124144968because you'd be exposed as the terminally online failure in life and control freak that you are? so it would seem.
>>124144990>terminally online failure in life and control freakbut enough about you, pedo kraut
>>124145004>no u
>>124145015yes, i would say no to pedophile krauts.
>>124144945Uh huh the guy gave himself a new trip and had an argument with himself because....because he just did OK
>>124144543"Mozart was ba-ack!"
>>124145041because he's a mentally ill freak. not really that crazy of an explanation.
>>124145055>because he's a mentally ill freakright
>>124145055It's blatantly obvious someone was impersonating them
>>124145130yes, that's right.
>>124144594Based
>>124145133oh, so he's a pedophile AND a faggot. got it, i'll keep that in mind next time.
>>124145054In fairness Glen Gould said he thought Mozart became a bad composer in that he became less inventive as he got older essentially. He still enjoyed teen/early adult Mozart very much and allowed that later Mozart did still have his moments. His famous quote about Mozart was basically trolling.
The sisterposter is falseflagging to make the pedophile kraut look bad.
>>124145176i don't think falseflagging is necessary to make a pedophile look bad. in fact he looks plenty bad as is.
>>124145176no shit, Sherlock.
>>124145205put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
can you guys fight on discord?
>>124145229i’m afraid not, discord is more the pedophile kraut’s domain
>>124145165>Mozart became a bad composer in that he became less inventive as he got older >Symphony 39,40,41 (he never listened either to 39 or 41 and 41 is praized as one of the best symphonies ever made)>La Clemenza di Tito>25th piano concerto>die Zauberföte> Requiem in D minorGlen Gould was either deaf or never heard other composers from the period. Even if we base this retarded opinion on his piano reperotire sonata 14, 16 and 18 are fucking great
>>124145221Settle down now tranny janny
>>124145246put your trip back on now, pedophile kraut
>>124145245"Less invetive"Fugue for two pianos and dissonance quartet. Gould was trully retarded or high qhen he gave such an stupid interview.
>>124145245Personally I wasn't impressed at all with the Jupiter Symphony
>>124145253Why don't you do it tranny janny?
>>124145278because i’m not a pedophile tripfag, duh.
>>124145283Well you did it before, no need to be shy now
>>124145304did what before, put a tripcode that doesn’t exist on? you seem to have forgotten your pills, schizo sister.
>>124145260>"Less invetive">Fugue for two pianos and dissonance quartet. Gould was trully retarded or high qhen he gave such an stupid interview.Yes
>>124145260Gould was an autistic contrarian edge lord who popped a bucket of drugs every day. Imagine taking anything he said seriously.
You two should get a room
Scarlattihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfqGGC6dK5w
>>124145339Well from even a cursory reading of his bio it's obvious he was a genius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gould
>>124145360so true tourister sister, so true.
>>124145368What age did you learn to read music?
>>124145375wouldn’t you like to know, tourister sister?
>>124145379And what age did you get into your music conservatory?
>>124145304my previous code was #01345689 if you want to try it out for yourself. TJ found it and pretended to be me.
>>124145392wouldn’t you like to know, tourister sister?>>124145398sounds like quite the conspiracy, schizo pedophile faggot kraut. too bad you're just a mentally ill faggot.
>>124145411Which age was your first orchestral performance? When did you put on your first solo performance?
>>124145418wouldn’t you like to know, tourister sister?
>>124145411Really?
>>124145468another one of your schizophrenic episodes, pedophile kraut?
>Cherubini’s Fifth String Quartet is a model of style. In the first movement, with its quiet prelude and its first Allegro where a theme is unfolded to sweep later in melodic curves through a series of quasi-Wagnerian chromatics, the composer displays daring harmony. The development is very short but admirably carried out. The Adagio is very simple and flowing and the Scherzo breathes the spirit of Beethoven. The trio section, in the major, is a kind of solo-capriccio for the first violin, where one feels that the composer is seeking new paths. And one is again somewhat reminded of the famous fugue in Beethoven’s ninth quartet (Op.59 No.3) as one listens to the Finale of this quartet, in which the composer also employs the fugue not and then, a method which he manages with the most perfect freedom.>Cherubini's String Quartet No.5, completed in 1835 at the age of 75, is the second of three which have been referred to as his "Late Quartets". It, along with its companions, represents a total change of style and approach to the string quartet form. The composer has become more interested in counterpoint and in extensively developing the possibilities of his theme which tend to be more austere than the operatic melodies which often occur in the earlier works. In many ways, these so called "Late Quartets" show Cherubini to be attempting the same sort of journey that Beethoven embarked upon in composing his own Late Quartets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzfm7oSfB0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhfIgpsY24https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCbvu96Uu3Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Myqns9f9w
Further proof that Mozart is underrated
now playingstart of Debussy: En blanc et noir, L.134https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnCWCJpAIk8&list=OLAK5uy_nVyP4GyZWCC8mdULC4V4v5OhSPpLK1p6Q&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nVyP4GyZWCC8mdULC4V4v5OhSPpLK1p6Q>>124145670Listened to the 3rd off of this a little bit ago, good stuff.
Caccinihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQAXxKcfook&list=OLAK5uy_mlQfaGeOKRBI7ybxbKT6OZ--XRgfFkoSc
Yosthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgFtZS4yBB8
Other than the obvious (Mozart, Haydn, the two Bachs, maybe Salieri and Clementi?), who would you recommend as essential composers of the classical period? Preferrably ones that didn't focus on opera.
>>124146195try Abel, Stamitz, and Gossec.
>>124146360Noted>Abel>he left 420 compositions, with a focus on chamber music. nice
I wish Debussy wrote more orchestral music.
Favorite recording of the Kreutzer Sonata (Beethoven's Violin Sonata No. 9 [Op. 47{1803}])?
>>124146498https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmLaifyQGwo
>>124146647ty. I do quite like them both.
>>124146647kremer here looks like young bill gates if he was a rapist
>>124146677That's how you know for a fact he's talented. Compared to many of the marketable lookers we have today.
>>124146677Looks like non-dwarf Warwick Davis
Handelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7zTwHFXy5w
ok last time I'm gonna listen to the Mass in B minor this month, I promise
>>124146694very true
>>124146694shh you'll upset the coomers
>>124146195these >>124146360 andMartin KrausBoccheriniPaisiello
>>124146967Duly noted. Isn't Paisiello an opera guy, though? Or is it a Glück case where he also wrote plenty of instrumental music but it's just so overshadowed by his stage works that no one ever mentions it
>>124146942>that blurred Asian dude with glasses in the center trying his best to, with neck outstretched, see an extra centimeter or two up her dress
>>124145670Thanks for the Cherubini posts, enjoyed his 3rd and 4th yesterday.
>>124146728Maria Stader <3 such an angelic voice
>>124147004well yeah but opera is cool. He also wrote piano concertos masses and oratorios though
>>124147017My pleasure. I also posted two of his masses (Messe De Chimay and Requiem for Louis XVI) in previous threads in case you're curious
>>124147026fuck yeah she's awesomefor me it's Suzanne Danco though. The best female operatic singer
>>124147036Opera is good, yes, but I greatly prefer instrumental music (although masses and madrigals are always welcome), hence my >Preferrably ones that didn't focus on opera.
glad the avatartrannies are making their slow and inevitable transition towards unashamed blogposting
>>124147436:/
>>124147505Aint blogposting, I just wanna know composers for this feel, stupid.
>>124147436>>124147521kill yourself today
>>124147436>>124147521I guess something modernist while you contemplate technological society and its discontents. Something like this, and more from this album and Berg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U126FW4zNqM&list=OLAK5uy_mMbk_RFtx9FFU-ShmOiBHkgxvB9ZhyVpU&index=11
>>124147521retarded blogposting avatartranny moment>feel, stupid.yes, i'm sure you feel very stupid right now, justifiably so.
>>124147523Rude!
>...of what is (by academic consensus, at least) the most important post-Beethoven sonata. [on Liszt's Piano Sonata in B minor, S. 178]Thoughts?
>>124147593It's damned well up there for sure
>>124147576>>124147616choke on dick cheese and kill yourself tonight, pedo
>>124147621But im not even the guy you call a pedo, just like a character who is of legal age.
>>124147593the bigger issue is that the piano sonata post-beethoven just isn't that relevant. unlike the string quartet or the symphony, beethoven effectively killed the piano sonata by writing music that was so impossible to ever compare to. of all the composers that proceeded after, probably only scriabin has piano sonatas in a similar place of importance in his body of work, for every other composer; they're almost footnotes. >>124147616embarrassing avatartranny behavior>>124147634didn't ask, avatartranny
>>124147634commit suicide and promptly, degen
>>124147613I agree. Though I suppose what helps is post-Beethoven most great solo piano works came in other forms, but that's not Liszt's fault.
>>124147636Well said.
>>124147636Sonatas are just shit in general. No value in them compared to more majestic forms like the prelude and fugue
>>124147636>beethoven effectively killed the piano sonata That's a bit reductionist. Plenty of monumental sonatas after him, inventive and idiomatic in ways that, not in any way to his detriment, Beethoven could've never done>>124147644I suppose that's a much better argument, especially near the fin de siècle/early modern period, but still, to ignore post-Beethovenian 19th century sonatas is kind of like ignoring tone poems after Liszt
>>124147639Didnt even post a recording as you said it, very off topic.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiVChQ8xcY
>>124147655funny thing is, the pedophile kraut would never say this because he doesn't even know what a fugue is. >>124147665>Plenty of monumental sonatas after himaside from the last 3 schubert sonatas, the liszt b minor, and the 10 scriabin sonatas, what monumental sonatas are there after beethoven? brahms' are entirely living in the shadow of beethoven and are totally unrepresentative of his own personal piano style shown in his later works. chopin's are simply shit. who else even is there?
>>124147683I am the pedophile kraut, i masturbate to loli every day
>>124147683>who else even is there?Not that anon but Schumann and Prokof-- *gets shot*But as far as the top echelon goes, I agree with you.
>>124147706prokofiev's belong in the shit category, and schumann's belong in the "who even remembers these exist?" category, along with his string quartets.
Why is everything post-baroque a artistic travesty and an insult to humanity?
>>124147655That's a funny way to spell 'preludes and etudes.'
>>124147732Fugues are the only form that matter. Etudes are disgusting virtuoso slop
>>124147683I'm going to regret replying, I'm sure, but:Mendelssohn's Op 106Schumann's Op 14Alkan's Op 33Chopin's Opp 35 & 58Spohr's Op 125Balakirev's Op 5Grieg's Op 7And there's some 20th century ones but that's beside the point
>>124147805Based
>>124147805if you’re considering spohr a major anything it’s fucking over for you.
>>124147829oh no
>>124147805Didn't know Balakirev and Grieg had piano sonatas, so, if it helps you not regret making the post, thank you, will check both of them out tonight.
>>124147830point being that most of these composers are way too obscure to have works of theirs be major anythings, even if they are monumentally large and difficult works like in the case of alkan. and even major composers like schumann and mendelssohn have their piano sonatas in total obscurity, as mentioned earlier. also, chopin’s are just shit.
>>124147836I don't regret making the post, those are all stellar sonatas. Balakirev also wrote a second one, but that's 20th century so I didn't think it'd be in line with my original poin, which stands, even if some rando on the internet declares that it's "fucking over" for me.
>>124147847>way too obscure>just shitk lol
dude these album covers
>>124147859seriously, when was the last time you saw a single balakirev work programmed in a piano recital? i’ve never seen anyone program anything by alkan or spohr either. even for mendelssohn, i’m far more likely to see the variations serieuses or the lieder ohne worte than i am to see his piano sonatas, and the same applies to schumann. how can you consider any of these works major sonatas when no one ever plays them? also, chopin’s are simply shit.
Yo!? Least I have something new to check out. Also whenever I come across these Hamelin recordings, I'm always reminded of a post some anon made a short while back saying something along the lines of how since he has accepted he has all the virtuoso skill in the world but little interpretative vision or passion, Hamelin just resorts to recording obscure repertoire now lol.
>>124147864>>124147877you know shit is going to be some fucking obscure and mindboggling difficult piece when hamelin is the sole major interpreter of that piece, nevermind what amounts to a composer's entire piano works. i have no idea how alkan's piano sonata can be considered a cornerstone of the repertoire when only a pianist of hamelin's calibre can even approach attempting it.
>>124147887stop being so mad, dude, it's just a different opinion than yours, it can't hurt you
>>124147908mad at what? the fact that the vast majority of concert pianists will never program anything by alkan because of how stupendously difficult it is? pretty sure that's pretty reasonable grounds for disqualification of standard repertoire status.
now playingstart of Haydn: The Seven Last Words of Christ on the Cross, Hob.XX, 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdeApsYYklM&list=OLAK5uy_nR2ykycskSutCJMZUqoYs7LdCXc3vUjgA&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nR2ykycskSutCJMZUqoYs7LdCXc3vUjgAAlso check out this excerpt by Hurwitz, bit of funny context behind the work I wasn't aware of:>This was, at one time, the most popular piece of music that Haydn composed. It was originally written as a series of eight slow movements (an introduction, then the seven "words") and a final "earthquake" designed to be performed in a Spanish church during Holy Week. So famous did the music become that some hack made a vocal version of the work, which Haydn felt he could do much better himself. So he created this oratorio, as well as making (or approving) arrangements for string quartet and solo piano! For the vocal version, he divided the work into two parts and added a stunning introduction to the second part for wind band alone. The result is unique in music of the classical period in its emotional intensity and Romantic expressiveness. Nickolaus Harnoncourt directs what is quite simply the best performance of this version of the work. --David Hurwitz
All this talk about piano repertoire reminded me of Hamelin's existential crisis over having learned Sorabjihttps://x.com/MarcAndreHam/status/1771720557639184601https://x.com/MarcAndreHam/status/1771716818413015266
>>124147932>grounds for disqualification of standard repertoire status.I mean sure. Meanwhile the "status of standard repertoire" was never a part of this exchange before you started spazzing out. The point was, from the very first post, that there ARE plenty excellent and artistically significant sonatas post-Beethoven. This fact remains factual. I'll continue to enjoy all these tremendous sonatas while you continue to be filtered by anything that hasn't been performed and recorded by everyone and their auntie. Sounds good?
>>124147974That's, uh, pretty mild. But thanks for sharing nevertheless.
>SVS starting to sound really good while Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky beginning to sound boringOh no... god, no...
>>124147980>Meanwhile the "status of standard repertoire" was never a part of this exchange before you started spazzing out. it kinda was. do you think i limited myself to schubert, liszt, and scriabin on accident? the point was to illustrate that piano sonatas have had limited success in penetrating the standard repertoire since the death of beethoven, with few exceptions. >that there ARE plenty excellent and artistically significant sonatas post-Beethoven. artistically significant? sure. monumental as far as historical relevance goes, aka. the original point? not so much. sounds like you're buttmad that the discussion was never what you wanted it to be in the first place. >I'll continue to enjoy all these tremendous sonatas while you continue to be filtered by anything that hasn't been performed and recorded by everyone and their auntie.lol, so much impotent rage. i never even said that alkan's sonatas were bad btw, i just said they were exceedingly difficult and way beyond the abilities of the average concert pianist, both of which are true. >>124147974doesn't seem like an existential crisis to me. he has a very sound and thoughtful grasp on the situation, if anything, and i agree entirely with his point.
>>124148006dude you truly cannot be serious calling others butthurt right now
>>124148013trust me, you're way more emotionally invested in this than i am lol. all i was doing was illustrating that there is really not much as far as historically significant piano sonatas past beethoven goes, and you got assmad because you thought i was implying that spohr's piano sonata was bad or something.
>>124148037hey sure
>>124148078fact of the matter can be a bitch sometimes, huh?
Is Itzhak Perlman good or a meme?
Hector said what?
How important do you think the engineer is in a recording?
>>124148164the law of the shortest way is more important than the law against parallel fifths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consecutive_fifths#Mozart_fifthscue meltdown from TJ in 3...2...1...
>>124148180sound engineers are glorified turd polishers.
Not a fan of Prokofiev's first violin concerto and violin sonata (I believe he was quoted as describing it as a "whisper in a graveyard" -- no thanks), but his second attempt at each are sublime.
>>124148180a good engineer won’t fix a bad performance, but a bad engineer can ruin a good performance. >>124148181put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124148199>whisper in a graveyardClearly he was wrong because that sounds pretty dope unlike his entire oeuvre
>>124148239Too sparse and austere for my tastes is all. If you're into that then I'm sure it's a good listen.
>>124148188>>124148200Good engineers can certainly elevate mediocre performances
>>124148257I just said I don't like Prokofiev at all, are you even listening
>>124148188>>124148288>>124148200Clearly we can all agree that engineers may or may not be able to improve or worsen good or bad performances
>>124148296The "you're" in my reply was referring to anyone else who may be reading my post, not you.
>>124148306Then don't address it to me, dingus
>>124148313This time I'm not listening.
Ballade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonata, Prelude, Fugue, Fantaisie etc.Literally the final form. Chopin is a god of form.
>>124148318I'd feel you if there were even a few more good ones by more composers. Brahms and Faure? And those are only decent.
>>124148288above other similarly mediocre performances? maybe. to the stature of good performances? not likely. >>124148318bait is supposed to be believable. >>124148334you’re responding to bait.
>>124148337>you’re responding to bait.Idk I think it's the same guy who posts about Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto all the time. He really does think the same five pieces he listens to all the time are the best of the best.
>>124148337Well, I do like really well engineered recordings where everything is of utmost clarity.
>>124148351you’re overthinking it, it’s obviously bait. >>124148353i’ll take a good performance over a well engineered one any day of the week.
Mozart: Divertimento in D Major, K. 334 (Orch. Perf.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPuZIGIUfHI&list=OLAK5uy_kiTKiO4jwdDD3-MhAWtPma2Hg5FV4UqCs&index=17
>>124148363>i’ll take a good performance over a well engineered one any day of the week.Thats reaching hisster territory dude
>>124148317You just did tho
>>124148363>i’ll take a good performance over a well engineered one any day of the week.....anon, you can have both. You know that, rigth?
>>124148373not really. lots of modern recordings are badly engineered too (not that i’d consider them good performances to begin with). >>124148384not always. some works like the missa solemnis get one good performance every century.
>>124148384A lot of anons here think most works only have like two or three worthwhile recordings, so you'd be surprised, sometimes you can't. Or at least they can't.
137 minutes of lieder this guy wrote? Aiight let's dig in.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKS4dJ2j3pQ&list=OLAK5uy_kXfH0-pBNjDtsDH8lM5BcfNV3WqkVcjMM&index=1
>no one has even come close to matching Bach's motetsIt's actually embarrassing.
Isn't a orchestral lieder just a cantata?
>>124147593>>124147613>>124147644>>124147636Which of Beethoven's sonatas are mandatory listening? Working my way through his symphonies.
>>124148427cantatas typically involve a choir. >>124148450this is like asking which preludes and fugues in the WTC are mandatory listening. the answer’s all of them, dummy.
>>124148418>no one has even come close to matching BachFtfy
>>124148427the difference is that cantatas are better.
>>124148450All the ones with names (eg "Pathetique," "Appassionata," "Les Adiex," and more), and then 28-32.
>>124148427I couldn't define 'em, but I know Strauss' Four Last Songs is structured more like traditional lieder than it is to, say, a cantata like Mahler's Das klagende Lied, so no.
>>124148471das klagende lied is not an orchestral lieder, despite the name.
>>124148475:OWell, the point still stands.
>>124144499help me out, /classical/. What's the best recording of Cage's 4 Minutes 33?
>>124148497Furtwangler, Bayreuth, 1951 on EMI.
>>124148427No? Do you know what a cantata is?
>>124148503thanks. Furtwangler was ahead of his time.
>>124148388>I can only enjoy one performance every centurysounds like a personal problem to be perfectly honest>>124148390Sad!
>>124148503a truly special recording; despite the title, it somehow lasts 18:36. >>124148524not my fault that no one seems to know how to perform the missa solemnis correctly anymore.
>>124148530>not my fault I can't enjoy musicI know, man, I know, I'm just saying
>>124148537as it turns out, most people don’t enjoy bad performances. shocking, honestly.
>>124148530>no one seems to know how to perform the missa solemnis correctly anymoreLUDWIG?? IS THAT YOU????? I THOUGHT YOU HAD DIED!!! WE'RE SO GLAD YOU'RE ALIVE AND WELL AND HAVE SPENT ALL THIS TIME LISTENING TO ALL EXISTING RECORDINGS OF YOUR WORK!! PLEASE!!!!!!!! ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR UNSURPASSABLE AUTHORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>124148530>not my fault that no one seems to know how to perform the missa solemnis correctly anymore.>anymoreI can understand statements like 'a certain performance practice has been lost to the current generation' but you think there's only one good one even amongst that previous golden era lol. One good one in all of recorded history is a bit different.
>>124148541>as it turns out, I can't enjoy most recordings, which means I can actually listen to very little musicYikes, well, sorry to hear that?
>>124148565>>124148524To be fair, you gotta respect someone who knows what they like, even if I don't agree.
>>124148551Hey, he really could be Beethoven reincarnated, you don't know that he isn't.
>>124148551you act like there’s a missa solemnis recording coming out every 3 seconds or something. it’s not exactly a popular piece you know. >>124148554as mentioned above, the work itself is not frequently recorded, and the past 30 or so years of beethoven performance has been tainted by HIPshit. that leaves us with not a particularly huge time span to work with (say, the first ever recording of the missa solemnis in 1928 up until the 70s or 80s). and, of that time span, most conductors were very, very satisfied with dragging the everliving shit out of the work—easier for the choir to sing, easier to pass off as “profound” and “spiritual”, etc etc. with all that it mind, it’s not crazy to imagine that only a small handful of autistic time beaters like szell and toscanini have appropriately lively recordings of the missa solemnis, and guess whose is in stereo?>>124148565having standards for recordings does not preclude me from listening to a large repertoire of music, you know.
>>124148594oh yeah, and i forgot to mention how notoriously demanding the missa solemnis is for the choir, further limiting the number of actual good performances assuming we consider accomplished choral singing to be a prerequisite. combining that with speedy tempi is like asking to have your cake and eat it too.
>>124148594>>124148602See, like I said, gotta give you credit for knowing what you like. Guess that's why you want to be the conductor and I don't.
>>124148570>you gotta respect someone who knows what they likeI can, and do, but that's not what's happening here. We're just dealing with a picky bitch who thinks they know better than literally anyone else since the dawn of recording technology. That's pretty pathetic so I'm just gonna laugh at him.
>>124148616i do in fact know better, because i have the benefit of hindsight and a century’s worth of recordings to pick and choose from to figure out what works and what doesn’t in a given work’s performance practice. it’s really not that preposterous to imagine.
>>124148616It makes sense that someone who aspires to be a conductor thinks they have something unique they can bring to the table, which implies the field has been lacking up until this point.
>>124148629haha!>>124148630>someone who aspires to be a conductor thinks they have something unique they can bring to the tableThat's undeniable. What is also undeniable is that he doesn't
>>124148636what’s undeniable is that you literally don’t know the first thing about me.
>>124148638I know you're sad, and that's funny
>>124148648yes, i am quite sad that the only good missa solemnis recording in stereo has a totally inaudible organ part. if we considered that a prerequisite for good missa solemnis recordings then we’d be totally fucked.
>>124148630keywords: thinks, implies
>>124148656>the only missa solemnis recording in stereo that I, an incapable dunce, can enjoy, has a totally inaudible organ partDang, sucks to be you I guess
>>124148671>durr hurr me stupiddang, sucks to be you i guess
>>124148664Well I've never heard anything the anon has conducted, so... all I'm saying is I'd imagine it's a mindset that's required of great conductors, as it is for artists in any field.
>>124148673>no uOH DANG I GOT GOT oh well I'm off to enjoy one of many excellent recordings of the missa solemnis I guess hope I can recover from this sick burn
>>124148766>guhhhhh me drooling retard me want to become womansure buddy, if that helps you sleep at night.
>>124148778anon, ew, don't bring your fetishes into this shitflinging fest>>124148815kill yourself
>>124148819hey, you’re the one thinking about fucking drooling retards here, not me.
>>124148815Did you find it by looking up recordings that engineer worked on, thought it sounded great so looked up who did, or go through the names involved on all of the recordings you like? Just curious, I never pay attention to that stuff.
>>124148831Both
>>124148903Ah. It sounds great.
>>124148826>>124148819Why does this general have such an obsession with trans as a pejorative? Did there used to be a regular here who was one that everyone hated?
>>124148918I tend to like making a network when I like a recording and look through what else the people involved did
>>124149149I dig it. I always appreciate attention to detail and that level of care about something, and it's not a bad way to find other lesser-known recordings, especially for stuff that's very commonly recorded, eg Mozart and Bach.
What are the main differences between a romantic concerto and a classical concerto?
>>124149621>romantic concertoIndubitably superior choice if piano is used as textural backup during the orchestral sections, e.g. Brahms Rachmaninoff Tchaikovsky concertos.>classicalVery strict form, piano stays quiet during the orchestral section, and everything classical era is known for otherwise.
>>124149621see:https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124111772/#124120074before asking any further questions.
>>124149852>Very strict form, piano stays quiet during the orchestral section, and everything classical era is known for otherwise.Not actually, its just played that way due to people only playing whats written. Classical concertos were meant to have improvisation over the tuttis. Here is an example of that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZTsXAMDBww
>>124150029Mozart's piano concerto on harpsichord?
>>124150112No
>>124150219Then what the hell is it?
>>124144919you're allowed to have poor opinions, but please keep them to yourselfhttps://files.catbox.moe/99gxjg.flac gieseking - steins gate, warner remaster (art et sons), 2022
>>124150461Mozart on fortepiano, a predecessor to the modern piano
>>124144499Hi anons, /lit/ tourist here. I wonder if there are some good recs for a classical equivalent of https://on.soundcloud.com/tbMMK, especially the beginning. Slow and with a touch of sadness to it.
Elgarhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqLURH7BUmE&list=OLAK5uy_kVGeecfXnW9TEwgTPo0qLUEAg6kn1SneA
>>124151008https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ6dWoQut_0&list=OLAK5uy_mK8FpkuUclJOOLV8xB5OaehciS05QuBnQ
>>124151008https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8mP5B-ws2s
>>124150623divermenti ???the specificity is clear from the verb hidden within, namely to diver(t) attention away from monotony into or towards the more enjoyable things in life>>124151008beethoven fart fifth
[Unknown composer]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlkcL30wdE&list=OLAK5uy_k5XnuklAZC_iTG-6xiGdL4-EhqYVsX97M
>>124151847>>124151931May you wake up with a big tiddies demoness holding you tightly
>>124151847>>124151931Both crap
>>124152122https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqoYbyENB6Y&list=OLAK5uy_kXkqCs941qQbmg4zyltyLUHydYS3ucTjI&index=4
>>124151008https://youtu.be/zpMdr9nBJc0?si=f_ujdh4SFOnu0Fvy
>>124150029robert levin drone detected
>>124152441When Shostakovich strays away from the macabre and anxious melancholy, he's actually quite good.
>>124152691if you have no standards, maybe.
https://youtu.be/NYV0Wvqrhq8?t=7https://youtu.be/STy8kjbkWAc?t=7https://youtu.be/fXwtIIpHlUE?t=7
>>124152703Name a better piano quintet from the 20th century.inb4 there are no good piano quintets in the 20th century
>>124152763i'd rather listen to schnittke's and i don't even like that piece very much.
>>124152776Funny you mention him as I'm listening to a recording with this on it right now, quite relevant:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFvnFHWWpNA&list=OLAK5uy_mY35cPjv9bnY6hqlg4gnguhVSO5N4pFZo&index=8
>>124152795it’s strange, despite being a shostakovich disciple, schnittke was actually fairly competent. not amazing, but competent. perhaps proof that the aesthetic is less the issue than the composer’s skill.
>>124152822I'll admit I do love the aesthetic more than the actual result most of the time, hence why I'm always giving Shosty's symphonies and some other stuff a listen every so often only to be disappointed and then repeat.
basically i will never listen to shostakovich or any of his disciples
>>124152918Someone already informed you he wasn't one of "them" in the last thread, though.
>>124152881try schnittke’s string quartets if you want the shostakovich neurotic sound done by someone who wasn’t an inept fool.
>>124152926what do you mean by one of them?
>>124152940he’s a schizophrenic, ignore him
>>124152927Thanks, will do. Any orchestral stuff?
>>124152940Oh I thought you were the anti-semitic schizo, nevermind.
>>124152949uh…. i guess his late symphonies are technically in the vein of the late shostakovich style, but they’re so vehemently atonal that i find them similarly repulsive. his earlier symphonies (1-3) are very noteworthy for being the big statement works of polystylism, if you care about that.
>>124152995Ah, probably not then lol. Much appreciated, added this.
>>124153008maybe try his second symphony, which is basically a setting of the mass ordinary with chorus and orchestra in homage to bruckner. that’s probably his least “out there” symphony.
>>124153048Neat, sounds good, thanks. Damn he wrote ten symphonies I see.
now playingstart of Honegger: Symphony No. 2 for Trumpet and Stringshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmrhyUaLavA&list=OLAK5uy_nqXb6Vd8rHSYP6VhMiz-Aaq1am8RGmI4g&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nqXb6Vd8rHSYP6VhMiz-Aaq1am8RGmI4g
>>124152959it's not something to nevermind. you had incorrectly assumed two things. one, that i didn't know shostakovich wasn't jewish, and two, that im antisemitic just because im particular in who i allow into my library. the latter assertion also ignores the impact a network of coordinated individuals, in both the public and private sector, have over public opinion. the mere mention of me being antisemitic pretty much proves my point. specifically, that you're part of an organization acting as a collaborator whose goal online is to ensure compliance with its policies by policing speech, and thus behavior, through the use of disruptive tactics, such as using derogatory terms.
>>124152927Also it's not necessarily the neuroticism I like, but the atonal romanticism.
>>124153206pills time>>124153219shostakovich is neither atonal nor romantic (maybe neo-romantic), so i don’t see it.
>>124153206Well, the list of names you pointed out the other day which consisted of all other Jewish musicians alongside Shostakovich suggests that's what you thought, so if not, my bad I guess. And I'm not policing anything, nor am I even using 'anti-semitic' as a pejorative, instead simply as a matter-of-fact descriptor.
>>124149058it's called projecting, and it's *in*
>>124149621why don't you fucking google it
>>124153249Well, romantic with atonal flavoring, like Mahler's 10th and most of his 9th. I watched part of a lecture by some eminent music professor or academic that was posted here several months back and that's how he described Shostakovich's music, and it's been stuck in my head ever since.
>>124153293nothing about mahler’s 9th or 10th is atonal, nor is the vast vast majority of shostakovich’s music. that professor was smoking crack.
>>124153308Dissonant then. You know what I mean!
Currently going through the Audible course on the pastebin, does anyone have a rip of the Apple Music "The Story Classical" podcast as well?I was listening to Bach's Six Partitas (BWV 825-830) recently and got an itch to explore some more.
>>124152763Fauré Op 115Taneyev Opp 14, 16 & 30Elgar Op 84Bridge H 49aVaughan Williams (1903)Medtner (1949)Bartók BB 33Turina Pérez Op 1
>>124153321i honestly don’t, the dissonances that shostakovich and mahler employ are very different.
Okay, it's pretty stunninghttps://youtu.be/G-L5nR8CqLs?si=O8USjoA8wRi7nlJc
>>124153394Further proof that Mozart is underrated
>>124153363I'm pretty sure he just means le spoooky scaaawwy and not 100% perfectly common-practice-like
>>124153343I can't help on the first request but for>I was listening to Bach's Six Partitas (BWV 825-830) recently and got an itch to explore some more.The rest of Bach's solo 'piano' music (check out Richter's or Tatiana Nikolayeva recordings, especially their Well-Tempered Clavier and other misc. stuff, like the latter's Art of Fugue; here's a playlist of misc stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJHY02thoAs&list=OLAK5uy_kmXn9-sQw7ZKBeuI-MHbVmV1hUSALI3N0&index=1), Mozart's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOEX808dgXE&list=OLAK5uy_mhAWask8E-GCJw4vE0IUdSyKFNCQIkPAI&index=10), and then of course Beethoven's piano sonatas, and then go from there.>>124153394Yes, we know. Glad you're enjoying it too!
>>124153457that's kind of embarrassing.
>>124153363Of course. I simply mean how they use it as a tool to create a unique, modern aesthetic, different as their methods and results are. Anyway it's not important.>>124153457No...
>>124153260>i thought you were the anti-semitic schizohow is this a matter of fact descriptor you fucking retard
>>124153514I don't have a problem with schizos :^)
>>124153458>and then of course Beethoven's piano sonatasYep, I'm currently going for Pathetique, pretty cool. 10 mins in and I'm still paying attention.
Just discovered some violin sonatas by Weinberg I quite like. Anything else from this composer worth checking out?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXa4nNrwp0&list=OLAK5uy_nCkKLBIF8aQzzLvC1N-QVfBHunXGcM6cQ&index=1From a quick search and cursory glance, seems they wrote a lot of music. Saw some cello stuff, a piano quintet, some symphonies. Gonna be fun exploring their oeuvre.
>>124153548Awesome, glad to hear! They, and Beethoven's music in general, are a fantastic way to fall in love with classical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6OZb1j59uo
>>124153479>unique, modern aestheticaka>>124153457>le spoooky scaaawwy and not 100% perfectly common-practice-like
>>124153819I'm just saying they made good use of it.
Dreams of a Witches Sabbath by Hector Berliozhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n7qfRNzS3s&ab_channel=TheWickedNorth
Charles-Valentin Alkanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1gJti_qqzQ
anyone have a pdf of the walter frisch book on the brahms symphonies? i lost my copy in a hard drive crash and internet archive doesnt allow borrowing of it anymore
>>124154736>anyone have a pdf of the walter frisch book on the brahms symphonies? iyeah
>>124154763could you upload it? thanks
Brahms' Haydn Variations into Bruckner's 5th :)
>>124147864Ah that's sick
>>124144536See that's exactly what I've been trying to say
Messiaen, Olivier/Loriod, Yvonne (193-/1998): Feuillets inédits pour onde Martenot & piano — Loriodssound is a little crappy sadlyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQbTixs43rQ&ab_channel=Chronochromie
>In the preface to his edition of Chopin's ballades, Alfred Cortot claims that the inspiration for this ballade is Adam Mickiewicz's poem The Three Budrys, which tells of three brothers sent away by their father to seek treasures, and the story of their return with three Polish brides.Fourth Ballade has inspired me to read Mickiewicz, as someone who generally dislikes poetry.
>>124148570Nah he's an utter twat
wanna listen to a recent recording of these works, so let's try<----start of Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLvV7Iwx6tU&list=OLAK5uy_kzn8UR2RXlDR8DYkXnnpa5eMrYxFIcr4s&index=2start of Brahms: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 77https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYghIm9q6U&list=OLAK5uy_kzn8UR2RXlDR8DYkXnnpa5eMrYxFIcr4s&index=4>The Bottom Line: Gil Shaham has recorded the Brahms concerto before, superbly, but this remake, for his own label Canary Classics, is quite different and no less fine. The Beethoven, on the other hand, is new to his discography and very welcome in a performance of this kind of freshness and soulfulness. The Knights, a first-class chamber orchestra led by Eric Jacobsen, provide exemplary accompaniments, allowing a genuine chamber music-like interplay between solo and ensemble. With fleet yet flexible tempos, beautifully balanced engineering, and brilliant booklet notes by Brahms scholar Styra Avins, this production is unquestionably one of the discs of the year. ---- David Hurwitz
>>124153260>Well, the list of names you pointed out the other day which consisted of all other Jewish musicians alongside Shostakovich suggests that's what you thought, so if not, my bad I guess. And I'm not policing anything, nor am I even using 'anti-semitic' as a pejorative, instead simply as a matter-of-fact descriptor.kill yourself
There's actually many Jewish musicians
>>124150593The Fortepiano not to be confused with Pianoforte
>performing Schoenberg strictly as a modernist:/>performing Schoenberg with a romantic interpretation:)
>>124156070>Not performing Schoenberg at allXD
>>124156070yes we get it you've complained about this before
>>124156079;o>>124156080that was about Prok and Ludwig
>>124154736https://litter.catbox.moe/amrgcf.pdf yale edition, no table of contents, and pages aren't cut accordinglyhttps://litter.catbox.moe/2ct5gv.pdf older edition and no table of contents
>>124156094based kind, helpful anon
>>124156080plus it's an amusing format to occasionally make a post in. go ahead, try it
>>124156094>https://litter.catbox.moe/2ct5gv.pdfthanks bro
>>124156137thanks I'm not much one for jokes
>>124155817I've generally not had the best experiences with Gil Shaham recordings in the past -- fine but overhyped and lacking depth, that little extra something which separates proficient soloists from great ones -- but this is stellar. Finally. Highly recommended.
>>124150623>Scored for a very small group of players, this work was probably written to commemorate the graduation of a close friend of Mozart's, Sigmund Robinig, from his law studies at the University of Salzburg in 1780. It also seems that Sigmund was a fairly decent violinist -- he is thus described in a surviving letter from Leopold Mozart -- and the first violin part is somewhat ambitious and may have been crafted with him in mind.https://www.allmusic.com/composition/divertimento-no-17-for-2-horns-strings-in-d-major-k-334-k320b-mc0002358425
>>124153348Will check out the ones I haven't already heard, thanks.
New>>124156687>>124156687>>124156687
