Brahms Editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKM5B27qb-4This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious:>>124144499
W.
Best recording of the Beethoven piano trios?
Liszt & Chopin.
>>124156723Greatest composers of all time.
>>124156723pee and poo
>>124156723shit and shart
>>124156723Diamond and emerald.
Shostakovich Jazzhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ6dWoQut_0&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fboards.4chan.org%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE
>>124156715I really like Beaux Arts Trio (almost always a top-tier choice for any piano trio they record), Barenboim/Du Pre/Zukerman, and Kempff/Fournier/Szeryng.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fObNPcs4v70good as it gets
>>124156832>Kempff, Szeryng, FournierI like all three so I'll definitely check their recording out first. Thanks!
>>124156698Weberhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAGJ6xZJbOc
Any recommendations for idiosyncratic, or at least interpretively distinctive, recordings of Beethoven's 9th?
>>124156916https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmzrq2w8PBk
Orasion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU0ISo996A&ab_channel=TheWelleszCompany
>>124156937Reminds me of when I first heard Toscanini's 3rd. Thanks.
>>124156723Chopin >>>>>>>>> Liszt
>>124156967When you're young and new to classical, sure, been there.
>>124156975Once you take away all the transcriptions, arrangements, variations, versions, fantaisies on themes from operas, paraphrases, etc. of music by other authors, and once you take away all the alternative versions, piano/orchestral transcriptions, revisions, recyclings, remakes, etc. of his own music, turns out Liszt wrote *very* little. Out of his almost 800 works, less than half are original music, and about a third of that isn't a rehash or a second/third/fourth/etc version of an older work. His entire oeuvre, even admitting for example the orchestrated versions of some of his solo piano stuff which are very good (like 6 of his 19 Hungarian Rhapsodies, which aren't even 100% original compositions), only barely reaches around 100, and that's with the help of dozens of pointless, <1m-long album leaves. Less than an eight of all of the published works to his name are made up of his own music, even tolerating rehashes. Talk about overrated hacks.
>>124156987>pastaDidn't read post your own thoughts
>>124156916
>>124156987kek reminds me of pic related
>>124157040whoever drew this takes it up the ass
>>124156687You could've had them both done by now if you hadn't spent the whole morning skulking in there, listening to that racket.
>>124156987>variationsYou think it's trivial to compose variations on a given theme? It's arguably the purest compositional challenge in all of music.>fantaisies on themes from operasWriting music on a theme by someone else does not diminish the originality of a work. Many Bach chorales are harmonisations of existing hymn melodies and many themes in his canons/fugues were commonly present in manuals/textbooks of the era and were been well-known among contemporary composers.
it begins, thread ruined
>>124157692What? A little pessimistic no?
>>124157163what are you talking about
>>124157163That's Brahms! Brahms third racket!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A513YjKmpMY
For that anon who was looking for something like Elgar's Cello Concerto the other day, this comes across as tonally and emotionally similar to me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7YGD_NOFJA&list=OLAK5uy_lB_Xsyx8rjLNezYUOi6gczDzxLyH9XksM&index=1Not as conventional, of course, it's Honegger.
I've probably come back to Otello more than any other opera, even more than Tristan. Just something about it always clicks for me.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSfAA5UiR-8&t=2363
Classical must be freed from German Cultural Imperialism
>>124158133https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-4zsQlP3Eit's good
>>124158192freed from having any standards? ok, lol.
>Balakirev, Cui, Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin Five Guys of classical music.
>>124158202German standards
>>124158241Western/Gothic would be a more accurate term.
>>124158316put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124158394https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--BA3fWEoBc&t=2210
>>124158394Frig off tranny janny
I'm convinced if it wasn't for his sick, ideal artist name and alluring, high-brow, erudite, immense character, Stravinsky would not have been as big of a deal as he was in his own time on through today.
>>124158505thank you wagnersister>>124158541thank you obsessed schizo
>>124158612If he'd been called Dave Miller he wouldn't have gone over so well?
>>124158645Certainly not. I was thinking more along the lines of if he was named 'Balakirev.' Either or.
>>124158612the rite of spring would have been a big deal regardless of who wrote it.
now playingstart of Khachaturian: Symphony No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxbxl1V7sT8&list=OLAK5uy_mr2N8DktDch7mdrt9ZZAA0_GXvLmWu-mI&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mr2N8DktDch7mdrt9ZZAA0_GXvLmWu-mI
>>124158133>>124158195>le big guitar orchestra
>>124158832>Gayaneh >Wiener
>>124158868Oh shi-- so this is the decadence Stalin was opposed to.
fug I always forget how great Mendelssohn's string quartets are when I go too long without listening to themhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eIe7fBKnmA&list=OLAK5uy_lcKhzpPhZGqLA5Gr0RrrjZlMhISCFWoBQ&index=13
>>124156687That's a pretty good set, OP, thanks. Grabbed his recording of op. 116-119 as well.>Dating from 1974/75, Peter Rösel’s Brahms recordings first appeared on the former East German Eterna label and were released on CD a few decades later in the West via Berlin Classics. Hopefully this space-saving reissue will help attract many listeners to what I consider the most consistently satisfying Brahms cycle on disc from a single pianist... ---- Jed Distler
>>124159091Well, if Jed Distler is saying that, I suppose I'll check it out. By the way, he has a YouTube channel now. And he sounds HORRIBLY pretentious, but as far as piano autists go, he knows his stuff most of the time. https://www.youtube.com/@jdistler2/videos
>>124159148>And he sounds HORRIBLY pretentious,I don't trust the word of anyone who ain't!
always kinda surprised me that Boulez liked Janacek given his venom towards so many composersmaybe it was the Debussy influence
there are only two good composers
>>124159562Nancarrow and Wuorinen.
>>124156815Based.
now vomitinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKfQYzfduYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM3fcmLb4Iw
Mozart insists upon himself
Brahms Suks!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVuj9sUtLA&list=OLAK5uy_nL9iZUO4aPT6b7-1XSrhJ8eVj7jrh25TU&index=1Also only kinda related, but aside from Brahms', what are some other great clarinet sonatas?
>In academic circles, Prokofiev's music is often disparaged. My professor used to tell the story of how the composer would finish a piece and then go through it again, "putting in the wrong notes".That's funny.>Yet Prokofiev remains probably the most popular of twentieth century Classical composers and practically the only one who wrote tunes that everybody knows. With neo-Romanticism now in vogue, he deserves to regain the respect he should never have lost.My man.
Who is a good tenor for lieder? I feel like too many of my recordings are Wunderlich.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMVKKgqrkzs
>>124160034>and practically the only one who wrote tunes that everybody knows.pretty fucking sure everyone knows tunes from debussy, satie, stravinsky and holst. what a retard.
>>124160062Maybe he lives in Russia.
>>124158133What are your favorite Otello recordings?
>>124160148i already called him a retard, no need to repeat what i said back to me
It's crazy to consider how people who lived in the time before recorded music would, unless they were a member of the orchestra or auditorium employee or worked in something related to music, only hear a given piece of orchestral music, concerti, or symphony a handful of times max in their lifetime. To attend a performance and hear the music was truly a monumental event.
>>124160272that's because the common person pre-industrial revolution was not involved in classical music whatsoever; post industrial revolution the rise of the middle class gave way to an entire industry of writing music for amateurs to perform for themselves at home on solo instruments, and cheap concerts of orchestral works reduced to 2 pianos for the masses. the advent of recorded technology killed both of those cultures.
>>124160344That's interesting, but I was referring to even those who would be interested in classical music, just either living in a city without a full-time orchestra or not in the city at all. For example, someone like Nietzsche, who was captivated with music and Beethoven, gotta wonder how many times he actually heard pieces by him performed by an orchestra. Or maybe he's a bad example because he was involved in the music and high culture scene to an extent (eg Wagner), but the point still applies elsewhere.But yeah that is still interesting, and I have thought about that occasionally too, how it wasn't uncommon to have someone in the family or at minimum in the near-community or social group who could play an instrument or two, and therefore could perform for others on many occasions when they wanted music in the home.
>>124160427most people owned a piano. so, if you really wanted to hear your favorite symphony, you'd just purchase a piano arrangement of it and play it by yourself. simple as.people these days are just lazy and undisciplined.
>>124160447Of course, that's why I pointed out hearing it played by an orchestra. Just fascinating different times.>people these days are just lazy and undisciplined.Well we've got recordings. Learning to play the piano or violin would, no offense to those here trying to learn, have zero benefit on my life. I'd get more out of, I don't know, improving my chess game or practicing graphic design in my own time.
>>124160464i can assure you that your sense of music appreciation would be completely different if you knew how to play an instrument and to read music.
Hopefully someone here loves these works by Stravinsky as much as I do, this is a fantastic recording. Best Les Noces I've ever heard.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOkK48ctNsA&list=OLAK5uy_m_uOne6spiODPwDPvYmGnkKHoy6ZGBHyc&index=1
>>124160744Indisputably. Don't tell anyone but sometimes I can't even recognize what instrument is playing. So it would definitely help but it isn't important enough for me to go through with that.
Daily obsession with Ballade No.4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJpnVWpiUI
>>124159527He also liked Beethoven and Haydn
>>124160062>pretty fucking sure everyone knows tunes from debussy, satie, stravinsky and holst.i dont, i only listen to german composers pre-20th centuryt. german
>>124162615Thanks imperialist asshole kraut
>>124156916Boston/Munch
>>124162682>having standards is German imperialism.Hello, Vaughan Williams.
>>124162731>only standard is the german standardThanks imperialist asshole kraut
>>124162746>>only standard is the german standardYes, cope more whatever you are
>>124162746uh huh. please tell me more about how primary colors are bullshit and squares are a white supremacist social construct.
>>124162760>>124162763Thank you imperialist asshole krauts
don't rile him please
>>124160447>most people owned a pianoWhat are you talking about? You're not seriously claiming that historically a majority of the people owned pianos, are you?
>>124162904they did when it became possible to mass produce them in the early 19th century. study some history you fucking retard.
>>124163026Again, a majority of the population owned a piano? Are you really sure what you're saying? Provide a source.
Basedlezhttps://youtu.be/XJ9mNW3s6uE
some seriously low quality bait this morning
MIDI files are the ideal way to listen to Classical music>b-but muh interpretationDon't care, excuse for shitty playing. Not what's written so doesn't matter. Only interpretation that matters is the composer, so otherwise play exactly according to the score, and if we don't have recordings, we should play exactly according to the score, which MIDI files do.
speaking of low quality bait
>>124164228But a MIDI can't play exactly according to the score, because the score states subtleties of interpretation which often only a live, and very skilled performer, can execute. And it's also very common for the score to be wrong, as is famously the case with much of Beethoven.
how come historical figures were the subject of potential revisionism in the government backed riots of 2020, while classical music and its participants received little to no backlash?
>>124164329>also very common for the score to be wrong, as is famously the case with much of Beethoven.Lol?
>>124164329>because the score states subtleties of interpretation which often only a live, and very skilled performer, can execute.As said, "excuse for shitty playing"
>German cultural imperialismYou know, there is some truth in that.
>>124164435peak autism
>>124164478Autistics hate change, they'd prefer listening to the same shitty recordings on an outdated medium as opposed to listening to the modern, more accurate midi files that exist these days.
>>124164329>>124164478you’re replying to bait, retard
>>124164569r/woosh
>>124164329>And it's also very common for the score to be wrong, as is famously the case with much of Beethoven.retard
Gould https://youtu.be/pHW1I8T0caI?si=QtYtDbwLxf_8vuU3
>>124164367>>124164603He probably means the debate about metronome markings (138 bpm half-note for Hammerklavier)
>>124164782It's hard to play, not impossible. The issue is people pretending these pieces were written for a modern grand piano and not a fortepiano which had a way quicker action.
what makes art et son remastering sound so listenable? https://litter.catbox.moe/6unh13.flac
>>124164782>there are wagnersisters in this day and age who still debate beethoven's metronome markingslmfao
>>124164793the hammerklavier is literally the only piano work that beethoven gave a tempo marking to. every other tempo marking in his symphonies is totally playable, the reason we don’t play them is because of 19th century (aka wagnerian) performance practice. absolutely nothing to do with practicality.
>>124164793Is there anyone who's actually played the first movement at 138, even on a period instrument?The fastest I'm aware of is Schnabel who reaches 132 and it has like 50 mistakes per page.
>>124164813Beethoven's music is objectively better when the metronome is not adhered to.
>>124164837so true wagnersister, so true.
>>124164827igor levit is not quite as fast as schnabel, but he's one of the fastest on the modern piano.
I do like a slower Pastoral.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL5vYdoQDVY&list=OLAK5uy_mbgj4MM7gt_36SHwgxTNjA2ykNeHHHRrQ&index=1
>>124164889sorry about your condition
>>124164837Moron
>>124164827https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uGJI5tiNMStephan Möller is the fastest modern performance that I've heard. Pretty close to the metronome markings throughout. He has a performance on fortepiano as well, which is about the same tempo.
>>124164934i don't think beethoven necessarily intended for the entire first movement to be taken at the same tempo, but it's such a breath of fresh air to hear it taken at an actual lively speed for once.
>>124164934Thanks
>>124164960Probably not, since despite what HIPsters often say, rubato was quite common even back then (see CPE's writing on piano performance), that's why I still think Schnabel gets it more right than most since he's hardly metronomic, but he still adheres to the intended spirit that Beethoven obviously had with that piece. That's a trap that one can fall into insofar as the MM are concerned, there's a tendency to overreact to them and become pedantic (like Zander's Beethoven 9th), which isn't ideal either. Still, an impressive performance.
>>124165005>Still, an impressive performance.In regards to Möller's performance of course, not Zander lol
Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWe-NfBWo5o
>>124165005do you happen to have a download of his release of the hammerklavier/waldstein? the usual streaming services somehow aren't allowing me to download it, at least not in FLAC.
Here. Some more rare stereo Hammerklaviers of choice. These aren't on YouTube and can be kinda hard to come across. Less metronomic than Möller but still taken at quite a clip, is Peter Serkin's performance on the Pro Arte label.https://litter.catbox.moe/85opbv.zipAnd Charles Rosen's last performance, which is much faster than his previous two, albeit less technically secure. Unfortunately I couldn't get a clean rip of this so I had to repair it with CUETools.https://litter.catbox.moe/ksrfnm.zip I like this one quite a bit, despite a few technical imperfections.
>>124165123nevermind, managed to rip them from apple music. >>124165144very nice thanks
>>124165123I was trying to use QBDLX to nab it off of Qobuz earlier but ran into that same problem, so no unfortunately.>>124165163Oh nice
Newb here, been going through Beethoven's symphonies after listening to all the big classical-era composers. Currently at the sixth. Are there other essential works from this period I should listen to?
what should i add to my playlist>FUCK busoni
>>124165193Beethoven, Schubert. Then you get into more romanticism proper with Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, etc.
>>124165231Specifically meant from Beethoven, period as in, this period of his
>>124165231from the middle period? aside from the symphonies, which i'm assuming you're covering extensively, you'll also want to hear all the middle period string quartets (razumovsky, harp, serioso), piano sonatas 19-27, piano concerti 4 and 5, the violin concerto, the op. 70 and 97 piano trios, the third cello sonata, and the op. 47 and 96 violin sonatas. and if you really feel masochistic, put on the triple concerto and bore yourself to death.
>>124165272>and if you really feel masochistic, put on the triple concerto and bore yourself to death.Hey! >:(
>>124165281more bad (or maybe more accurately, insufferable) middle period beethoven: the choral fantasy, welington's victory, and the oh so awkward mass in c major.
>>124165326fuck you choral fantasy is actually great and only unappreciated because no one can ever be bothered to get the resources for it together when you only need the choir for 2 minutes (kinda like scriabin's prometheus)
Monteverdihttps://youtu.be/jFICk1_NV2o
>>124165326>the choral fantasyOkay now we really gotta fight. >he oh so awkward mass in c major.I like it, but I accept the fact that there are only three notable conductors to record it, those being Chailly, Giulini, and Shaw, all with a penchant for lesser known, dubious quality choral works, should be my first clue.
>>124165244>>124165272for you
>>124165373Monteverdi is truly unexcelled.
>>124165372>>124165374the choral fantasy is great if you like unending amounts of campiness
>>124165415t. life-denyingpic because it wouldn't fit into the char. limit and says it better than I can
>>124165373Sauce on the painting?
>>124165439the fact that the immediate comparison is to bolero already completely defeats whatever point the author is trying to convey.
>>124165462you shut up ducks newburyport
>>124165462No joke, when I tried copy-pasting it at first, I was gonna cut that parenthetical because I knew you were gonna react this way lol
now playingstart of Weinberg: Symphony No. 20, Op. 150https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AacB5crKA&list=OLAK5uy_mIb8-rGDOFZOM05DdfF6DgqgU-0tNSShg&index=2start of Weinberg: Cello Concerto in D Minor, Op. 43https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbpkQpgaEKE&list=OLAK5uy_mIb8-rGDOFZOM05DdfF6DgqgU-0tNSShg&index=6https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mIb8-rGDOFZOM05DdfF6DgqgU-0tNSShg
>>124164837>t. dying 90 years old
janáček's string quartets
Mahler Brahms or Bruckner?
classical music is more exciting and based when it's played way faster and i'm tired of pretending like it's notthe only exception being slow movements which should obviously be played celibidache brand treacle slow
>>124166027please don't make me choose :(>>124166029ADHD generation. Which isn't to say that you're wrong or misguided, just that each generation has its own tastes and sensibilities and this is ours.
>>124166029>exciting and le basedthis website is 18+
>>124166029gtfo of here Furtwangler
>The accepted belief, as the belief of all the world, continually engenders a disgust and a new longing in finer minds; and already the slow tempo which it demands for all intellectual processes (the imitation of the tortoise, which is here recognised as the norm) drives artists and poets away. – It is in these impatient spirits that a positive delight in madness breaks out, because madness has such a joyful tempo!
>>124166027Brahms = Mahler > BrucknerMaher's the greatest symphonist ever but loses points compared to Brahms' prolific and tremendous output in many different forms.
is The Rite of Spring actually enjoyable or more just historically important, compositionally innovative, and musically interesting, but not something fun to listen to? Maybe I simply don't get it yet.
>>124166303it's incredibly enjoyable
>>124166321Alright. I really like a lot of other Stravinsky, with The Rite of Spring being by far the one I listen to and enjoy the least of his major stuff. Guess I'll give it another go.
>>124166303It's pretty enjoyable
>>124166348for the record i tend to like rite of spring much more than anything else of his. the only thing that i like as much is the piano three movements from petrushka, everything else is too cold for me. even the firebird seems kinda weak for some reason. i respect a lot of his stuff and have played and studied an awful amount of it but nothing makes me actually hype like rite of spring which is still insanely good for me and never gets oldso we might just have very different tastes
>>124166425>the only thing that i like as much is the piano three movements from petrushkaSame. I love the version for orchestra too, but the piano arrangement is even better.
>>124166425>the piano three movements from petrushkaI do love that a lot. And yeah The Firebird is very uneven, I prefer the suite version. You don't love Petrushka itself, Apollo, or the Violin Concerto? I agree about stuff like Symphony of Psalms or some of his other orchestral stuff; fine but not great, could easily live without and never think about it again.And yes, Rite of Spring is greatly energetic, gets the blood-pumping.
>>124166471i respect all of those but i can't say i love them. i tried to psych myself into thinking the violin concerto was based when i read doctor faustus by mann which had a fictional violin concerto that felt very similar but i've never honestly felt anything but huh neati forgot though, i do love bits of the rake's progress
>>124166510Ah fair enough. His violin concerto is one of my favorite ever in that genre, and certainly of the top few of the 20th century. Is there a suite of The Rake's Progress? Not really into opera.And maybe I've just been listening to the wrong recordings of Rite of Spring, I usually try the same couple in hopes it'll click whenever I feel like giving it a go. What's your favorite or suggested one?
>>124166563i normally find gergiev a bit of a tryhard but his rite is great. big and grotesquebut my fave is probably ormandy, it's so tight and intense
are all the beethoven piano concertos worth listening to?
>>124166604Thank you :)
>>1241666074 & 5 are essential and the other three are just decent imo. worth listening to if you like beethoven but they won't blow your socks off
>>124166607The first two are good, but in terms of standouts, it's the 3rd through 5th, with the 5th obviously the best but these days I enjoy the 3rd the most. Probably because I've listened to the 5th and 4th so often I've kinda worn them out lol.
This is an interesting release. It's 21 hours of 38 different recordings of The Rite of Spring. >This 20 CD set celebrates the 100th anniversary of the premiere of Stravinskys ballet The Rite of Spring in Paris on 29 May 1913. It is widely regarded as the most significant event in 20th century classical music and the shock of this revolutionary score can still be felt today.>Included in this collection are all 38 versions ever made of the work from the catalogues of Decca, Deutsche Grammophon and Philips an extraordinary initiative.>In addition to the six recordings included in the 4 CD set, are classic performances by Leonard Bernstein, Bernard Haitink, Herbert von Karajan and Sir Georg Solti. The set also includes three recordings of the composers arrangement for piano duet.>Also included is an historical 1935 recording from the archives of Deutsche Grammophon of Stravinskys Violin Concerto, conducted by the composer himself, with Samuel Dushkin as the soloist, who gave the premiere performance of the work.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nznU0WOLspA8EC1ALKlsZLH0D7dlgGx6wReally cool idea. Any other similar releases like this? I wouldn't be surprised if not, as it's not something the average lover of classical music would be interested in buying -- generally you go for one recording of a work, trying to find the best.
>>124166563>>124166604one other rite of spring rec: see if you can go see a local/youth orchestra play itthe whole thing was written to be so it would feel like it was falling apart (there's the famous joke stravinsky made about how he should transpose the opening bassoon bit up a semi tone every 10 years or something because professional orchestras became too good at playing it)you'll never see a more raw exciting performance than a bunch of enthusiastic kids barely able to parse the rhythms thrashing through it
>>124166563boulez and cleveland's first recording. ignore their DG remake, it's so fucking bad it's unreal>>124166604awful stuff
>>124166757i like boulez sometimes but his rite is so boring
>>124166757>>124166780ah wait you said to ignore the dg remake. fair enough i retract that, forgive me i'm a little drunkbut still you were rude about my taste so i'm not that penitent
>>124166780his remake is a snoozefest. his first rite of spring recording is anything but.
>>124166754Good shout. Funny this is something I been thinking about lately, that some works are far better and a completely different experience when heard in a live performance (beyond the usual benefits of a live performance, obviously).>(there's the famous joke stravinsky made about how he should transpose the opening bassoon bit up a semi tone every 10 years or something because professional orchestras became too good at playing it)lol>>124166757Thanks. Will check out all three.
>>124166807daydrinking slob
>>124166807kek
>>124166726I often forget it's a ballet. Is that what they wear during a performance? Interesting.
>>124166830i'm a bong i'm allowed to get drunk and angry about stravinsky recordings at 9pmi'm gonna check out the early boulez one because i already know i much prefer his earlier webern to the DG ones
Did leibowitz record the piano concertos of Beethoven using metronome markings as well?
>>124166856you should probably see what the actual ballet looks like; that was the real controversy surrounding the premiere, not the music itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4sf2wT0wU
>>124166754There's an even earlier Boulez performance kinda like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybgstb68INM
>>124166894the piano concerti don't have metronome markings from beethoven.
>>124166918Well yes, but didn't Czerny provide some?
Beethovenhttps://youtu.be/bwnouGHMc7o
>>124166926czerny provided more than just some; he provided multiple conflicting metronome markings depending on the edition. the same issue is prevalent with his editions of the piano sonatas.
>>124166926FUCK czerny
>Richard Wagner has argued that the third movement was intended as the slow movement of this symphony and that the second should be played as a scherzo.[citation needed]Is this something Wagner really said or did some guy on wikipedia make it up?
I've been exposed
>>124167000i would kill myself
>>124166990it certainly sounds like something he'd be stupid enough to say.
>The first Boulez/Cleveland recording was done in one take and then they went back and spliced in a section of trumpets in the second part (I think the slow section early on). Cloyd Duff, the timpanist at the time, told us the story that Boulez kept going after the end of Part I and they all sort of looked at each other and realized they were going for it.Fun story.
now playingstart of playlist, Ligeti: Études pour pianohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHGd-XCxPHY&list=OLAK5uy_nFO0kxEVLYqFqD10Jg5oMCfCPIrz4-4Mo&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nFO0kxEVLYqFqD10Jg5oMCfCPIrz4-4Mo>In 1985, Gyorgy Ligeti produced a collection of six piano ëtudes, to which he added two further volumes in the following sixteen years. Many people in New Music circles of the time responded with a lack of appreciation and understanding. Whereas the piano etude tradition of the 19th century was continued by Bartok, Debussy and Stravinsky at the beginning of the 20th century, this tradition no longer existed by the end of the 20th century. Ligeti not only wanted to revive a great musical tradition but also to explore it's potential in a contemporary form. His piano writing is not only polyphonic in the customary sense, but also polyrhythmic, poly-temporal, and even poly-ethnic. On this recording from Wergo, pianist Thomas Hell makes a powerful case for these fascinating works.Starting to like really modernist solo piano music. Gonna try Boulez's second piano sonata, maybe some of Bartok's and something from Schoenberg.
>>124160447For less than the cost of going to a concert you could buy a piano, learn to play Beethoven’s 9th Symphony and play it by yourself and you’d enjoy it more
>>124167194a decent piano would cost a hell of a lot more than a concert ticket in the cheap seats.
Also, regarding Bartok's Mikrokosmos, after a few anons recommended it the other night I've been dabbling with it here and there, and at first I tried starting from the very beginning of the set but the first couple books are a bit simplistic and lacking, which aligns with what I read on the wiki about it soon after:>Volumes one and two are dedicated to his son Péter, while volumes five and six are intended as professionally performable concert pieces.[3]So I guess my question is, since I'm not using it to practice playing the piano, rather solely for listening for pleasure, are volumes five and six the only ones worth listening to?
>>124167210>are volumes five and six the only ones worth listening to?yes
>>124167222Cool, thanks.
>>124167210honetsly mikrokosmos isn't worth listening to at all, it's worth playing. they're piano exercises for people learning piano not concert pieces
>>124164342A) No one cares about classical music, least of all some faggy opera B) Othello wearing blackface on stage and film has been a woke issue for awhile
hello friends, what are some relatively "manic" compositions? I'm not looking for chaos, just something frenetic
>>124167266https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpMdr9nBJc0
>>124167244Okay, that makes the most sense to me, I appreciate it. And is great because I wasn't really liking it much anyway lol, but when one anon called it the third testament of solo piano music, the modern contribution to the pantheon of Bach's WTC and Beethoven's piano sonatas, I felt like I was missing something, and was gonna keep trying until I liked it lol. So that's a load off my shoulders. I'll move onto his other solo piano work then.
>>124167266https://youtu.be/5rfle8wSwJM?si=d3MYNU7skgvSS231
>>124167210>>124167244Some pieces in the last books are worth a listen, like the Bulgarian dances.
>>124167266I'm actually listening to this right now! And sounds right for what you're looking for + is a masterpiece:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVuFcERGiyA&list=OLAK5uy_mnV49-kT5Km61B1tLkv8lSVs8a5A7HIsI&index=4and as was mentioned a little bit ago, Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn-UOVxOmq4
>>124164569>S-stop replying to people!!!Dry your eyes now trannyjanny
>>124167310i mean they're fun and not without musical merit but i can't imagine recommending them as bartok to listen to compared to insanely high quality other stuff he has to offer
I play classical piano but Broadway stuff is fun to play too
>>124167327i never said to stop, feel free to reply to obvious bait as much as you'd like, obsessed schizo. >>124167362not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead
>>124167355>compared to insanely high quality other stuff he has to offerFor solo piano?
>>124167355Yeah they're not like his larger works, even though
>>124167382why would you be determined to only listen to his solo piano output? he has the greatest string quartets since beethoven, great violin sonatas, piano concertos, a concerto for orchestra, a GOAT opera, ballets etc etc. for piano he wrote a bunch of fun stuff that's great for learning piano but i don't understand why you'd want to experience this guy only through his piano music (but not playing it, and only without an orchestra)
>>124164827Beethoven probably adhered to the Whole Beat system
>>124167420I'm aware of (most of) the rest is all, and I'm in the mood for solo piano music, so was curious about it specifically. No reason beyond that. I'll try some of it still I guess, but will skip the Mikrokosmos, thanks.
ftr if you ARE learning piano and you'd been doing fucking hanon exercises and then you get given mikrokosmos and you get to pretend to be a fly it's so fucking good
>>124167436and you probably (definitely) smoke crack
>>124167578lol I'll keep it in mind if I ever need to buy a gift for someone learning to play the piano.
>>124166866it is very good and worthwhile. i still like that 53 ormandy best but i thank you for the rec even if it was in a rude way
>>124167123He’s such a prankster!
>>124167381Stop replying was the implication
>>124167305>>124167319thank you, these are exactly what I was looking for. Especially the Bartok one.
>>124167797Happy to help, enjoy.
>>124167651>poly-temporal, and even poly-ethnic.It transcends time and race, apparently.
>>124156687Liszt: La lugubre gondola, for cello and pianohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJWkAjCy6E&ab_channel=AngusCeller
>>124165206so i've decided that szeryng literally can't be beat for studio recordings but this video of milstein is unbelievable kino https://youtu.be/yv5HmKomT7Y?si=7Ftf8QDputk_3Wwg(this is for the chaconne obviously)szeryng though, how the fuck does he make the violin sound like that but also how does he make all the lines flow like that and the phrasing and everything feels so weighty and right but also how does his violin sound so pure and strong and rightguy is a dark violin sorcerer
>>124167123This is what Hell sounds like
>>124165206>>124167912Yeah of the classic great recordings, Szeryng is my current go-to. I've been meaning to revisit Milstein's though.
Are there any drawings of a Moezart? Asking for a friend
>>124167956you should check out this video, i think this performance in a tv studio is better than his studio recordings lol. also you get occasional shots of 60s qts in the audience feeling profound
What's the minimum length of a Symphony?
>>124168029it is not specified
>>124167436It's more likely that Beethoven used his metronome upside down than it is that he adhered to Whole Beat, and you be the judge of how likely that is.
>>124168029anything shorter than 20 minutes is a symphonlet. Nah just kidding, I don't think there is one but I've noticed anything shorter than, ~22 minutes (eg Sibelius' Symphony no. 7) begins to become called a symphonic poem or tone-poem.
>>124168029like 5 minutes
>>124168058webern's symphony is shorter than that
>>124168050So it's more likely he wrote an unplayable speed?
>>124168058Mozart has symphonies under 10 minutes
>>124167671i'm sure it seemed that way in your mind, obsessed schizo. >>124168058length has absolutely nothing to do with tone poem/symphonic poem status, strauss' alpine symphony and also sprach zarathustra are both tone poems and last longer than most symphonies of the classical era. >>124168090you write this like it's preposterous that the man who wrote the grosse fuge, the missa solemnis, and the fugue that ends the exact same piano sonata that spurred this discussion was completely unconcerned with playability.
>>124168080>>124168110Okay, fine! Nah, thanks for the info.>>124168117Well of course symphonic poems can be longer, I'm just saying shorter ones tend to be called that. But I suppose you're right, it has more to do with structure and sound.
>>124168007It is lovely. I'm convinced to finally give his studio cycle a listen now. I find at the moment I prefer those pieces to be played soft and gentle, something which Grumiaux's, for example, is the opposite of, sublime as his is. And yes always nice to see the old school crowd with cuties lol. Thanks for sharing.
>>124168117frig off Tranny janny
>>124168130>I'm just saying shorter ones tend to be called thatno, they don't. the ones that are called that are called that because they are programmatic, there is no relation to length.
>>124168164I resign, capture my king.
>>124168162take your pills, obsessed schizo, you're the only one here who's not discussing music.
>>124168178Not interested TJ
https://litter.catbox.moe/o6oteq.mp3
Is Bach the only one to be able to write a good triple concerto? The two he did (Brandenburg 5 and bwv 1044) are the greatest concertos hes ever written. Meanwhile Beethoven couldn't even write a single triple concerto up to the sme standard
>>124168161fun story - i actually prefer grumiaux in the (recording) studio to milstein. there is something so pure and clean and right about grumiaux and i often find him underrated because he is so mercurial and it's hard to put a pin into what his style is. but yeah milstein is so good too even in the recordings. really proud and strong and pure and so musical. he gets the lines
let's try<----https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2kTfS6jOLI&list=OLAK5uy_l2QIPneeaA76ziK31POVkGxxLO6ADDN2U&index=1Love Karajan's recordings of SVS works but feel like trying something unfamiliar, hear it from a different perspective and sound.
>>124168203yes, we know you're not interested in discussing music, that much is clear. >>124168213the string orchestra version of the grosse fuge is so silly. >>124168219one also has to remember that the concerto in the baroque era had very different parameters from the concerto in the classical era. by the standards of the classical era, concerto grossi simply do not work.
>>124168239Not interested in your opinion-should have clarified
>>124168213Based. Been looking for string orchestra versions of standard repertoire string ensemble music, so thank you very much, this sounds fantastic. I've been hooked ever since I heard that Bernstein/VPO recording of Mitropoulos' arrangement of Op. 131 and Op. 135 the other day. I've found some, including of Op. 132 which I was most desiring, but they don't quite hit the spot as Bernstein's and this one; smaller orchestras, light and thin sound, taut pacing; they play it exactly as a string quartet would, and not as an orchestral piece, defeats the purpose. And again, small orchestras.
>>124168293and you're not interested in discussing music either, that's why you refuse to. >>124168307those bernstein recordings suck so much ass, megalomaniacal conductors should be banned from being anywhere near chamber music.
>>124168239>the string orchestra version of the grosse fuge is so silly.Sounds incredible to me. In fact, it might be the first time the piece has finally clicked and sounded sublime. Will definitely be my new go-to way to listen to Op. 133, no joke.>>124168322Well, I quite liked it, but part of that may be because I gotta take what I can get, it's that or nothing like it at all. You may choose nothing at all and just listen to how it's meant to be performed, but for me, wanting that sound, I'll take what I can get and it's great.
>>124168322No literally just your opinion and you don't need to reply to this
>>124168344>it might be the first time the piece has finally clicked and sounded sublime. what, when you drowned the counterpoint of the piece in piles and piles of string players? >wanting that soundsounds like you want orchestral music, not string quartets. >>124168369and you're also not interested in discussing music, which is why you still aren't
>>124168378>sounds like you want orchestral music, not string quartets.Yes I said that the other day, when I was raving about the string orchestra version of Verklärte Nacht. Though it's coming back around, need a break from symphonies and I'm attempting to seek refuge in chamber music. So these string orchestra arrangements of string quartet masterpieces is the perfect mix of the two.
Béla Bartók - Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta, Mov IIIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9LWHEf0VFo&ab_channel=pelodelperro
>>124168378I guess you did need to reply lol
>>124168344i would recommend checking out the hagen quartet for how kino grosse fugue can sound in string quartet without the edges sanded off be making it a full string orchestra. it's meant to be a big ugly rude fucking thing with the overlapping things jarring intentionally https://youtu.be/B0KJ-7sYgHQ?si=svX16DQurwpBjM6R
>>124168225try this
>>124168417>I'm attempting to seek refuge in chamber music.but you aren't, you're still listening to orchestral music. if you want to take a break from orchestral music, listen to actual chamber ensembles, not orchestras pretending to be one so that narcissistic time beaters can drag and futz with every small detail of the only genre of music they otherwise can't touch. >>124168436and i guess you aren't interested in discussing music lol. >>124168442he thinks that listening to neutered string orchestra arrangements of chamber music is equivalent to the real thing and i have no idea why.
>>124168468i mean just engage with the guy and recommend good things and we can all enjoy the thing we like
>>124168484what's there to recommend? he already knows all the pieces he should be listening to, he's just going out of his way to listen to shitty versions of it because he cannot wrap his head around music designed to be played by a single digit number of players without an idiot with a stick telling everyone what to do.
>>124168467I added that one right after, haha. Thank you though, will definitely make sure to try it now that someone here has recommended it, instead of letting it pile up on the backlog as so many other recordings.
>>124168510maybe i missed a lot of backstory herei just got here with the guy liking a string orchestra grosse fugue so i recommended him a super good string quartet one he might appreciatebut if he doesn't, so what?i don't have a stake in this i just want to expose people to good musicif he got exposed then good
>>124168510I know right? Imagine someone having the cheek to have a different opinion to you! I honestly don't know what he's thinking! I mean you already told him the correct versions but he's listening to other ones! Gawd
>>124168307it comes from his remastered big box. warner has yet to release an anthology of his beethoven works.
>>124168553he's already been recommended a whole bunch of beethoven quartet cycles, including hagen and plenty of others with great grosse fuges. he just doesn't like them, for whatever reason. >>124168575you're nearly discussing music obsessed schizo, now all you need to do is stop making me the focus of your demented ranting and talk more about the music instead.
>>124168003
>>124168598you are concerned with this anon's soul
>>124168468I obviously don't think it's the equivalent, why would I think that? The whole appeal is because it's different.>want to take a break from orchestral music, listen to actual chamber ensemblesLike I said, it's coming back around.>>124168510lolMy tastes come and go in phases. I used to listen almost entirely to chamber and solo piano music and avoided symphonies and orchestral music. Then it started to gradually shift until it flipped entirely, and now, after much time, it's finally coming back around. I'm not saying anything is bad, in fact I quite love chamber music in general, it just hasn't had much appeal to my ears for a little while but like I said, it's starting to again. These string orchestral arrangements are a best of both worlds thing, and currently sound excellent to me. I'm not saying they're objectively superior, I know they're inherently and immensely different than these works performed as they're meant to be with a smaller string ensemble, just that I'm liking them as well.
>>124168610i'm concerned with discussing good recordings of good music; though to be fair, you probably have to be possessed by demons to think that the string orchestra version of the grosse fuge is any good.
>>124168640i don't think that. i'm the same anon searching for the perfect chaconne who will not sanction busoni
>>124168656i wish you the best of luck in your search, and agree that pianists would do well to stay far away from violin solo repertoire.
>>124168442>it's meant to be a big ugly rude fucking thing with the overlapping things jarring intentionallyFor sure, which is definitely why it hasn't clicked for me prior, which is what makes that one you shared so nice. Maybe someday the real thing will finally click, but until then... And thank you for the suggestion, I love the Hagen Quartet. Don't think I've tried their Beethoven yet though but now I will.
>>124168656>i'm the same anon searching for the perfect chaconne who will not sanction busonikek I actually added a recording consisting of some of his Bach transcriptions and while it was alright, doubt I'll be revisiting it ever. However, I stand by Stokowski's orchestral arrangements of Bach, including of the Chaconne. Fire stuff. I'm sure you're familiar with it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTErYL3tXQ
>>124168620>These string orchestral arrangements are a best of both worlds thingyou don't get the clarity of texture, voicing, and rhythm that you do with a string quartet, and you don't get the diversity of orchestration and timbre that you do with an orchestra. sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.
barber's adagio for strings is a fun version of the orchestrated vs string quartet thing because everyone knows and likes the string orchestra one (if not the trance version) but i personally like the intensity of just 4 string instruments in the original quartet:https://youtu.be/kxtMe9CPZ9M?si=kP8K60MJ07qZKff1
>>124168815it sounds even better when it's not played at all.
>>124168773Yes, if it was the same it'd be performed by a string quartet. What you lose is replaced by something else. Of course you don't get the 'clarity of texture, voicing, and rhythm' of a string quartet, because you get the warmer, fuller, and weightier traits of a string orchestra, that's the point. Again, I'm not saying it's replacing the string quartet version, it's just nice to have variety, and here it works.Funny enough I generally don't care for string quartet versions of symphonies, but I'm not upset by their existence or someone else's enjoyment of them as I know they're novelty, and not a shift to replace.>>124168815That actually sounds great. Here's a work which really benefits from the added clarity, sharpness, and intimacy of a string quartet version, as I always found the regular version too mushy I guess, gets tiring fast.
>>124168674Brahms left hand alone arrangement of Chaconne for piano is good.I think the left hand alone replicates the tone color and textural frugality of the solo violin quite well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljb5MvKv0HwBut I also like Michelangeli's rendition of the Busoni
Ballade No.4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5RpOvtzIlo
>>124168898>you get the warmer, fuller, and weightier traits of a string orchestranone of these are synergistic traits with the inherent characteristics of the string quartet genre (music that is from the outset overtly contrapuntal and intellectual, as opposed to textural), so i don't see the point. >Funny enough I generally don't care for string quartet versions of symphoniesthe reverse is also true, string quartets are too monochromatic to capture the full sound of a symphony, and they definitely don't have the volume required to replicate the true dynamic range of a symphony orchestra.
so from what i gather there's this one anon who keeps enjoying wrong arrangements of music (which for full disclosure i personally don't personally prefer) and this other anon who gets really mad about about it and quotes him in all the posts to tell him that he's wrongis this a symbiotic relationship?
>>124168977i used personally too many times there
>>124168901left hand alone makes a lot more sense than busoni turning it into a full scale piano piece, but i still don't think solo violin translates to solo piano very well. >>124168977it's called having a discussion, look into it sometime.
>it's called having a discussion, look into it sometime.
>>124168734I prefer both Elgar and Schoenberg's Bach to Stokowski's. (Stokowski's arrangements haven't really done much for me, such as the C minor passacaglia/fugue)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32JjEib8drMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdOEF4VROvo (I'm only familiar with the Schwarz version)
>>124169068wrong board for selfies, maybe try >>>/soc/ instead?
Opinions on Olafsson?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhyxjSULzMchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qmA2d8RRpMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWVNv3SyzoAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Criw3iCUpwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhT0ng7wgjwI think his Bach has more nuanced voicing than Gould's to be honest.
>>124169015yeah i'm with you. the chaconne is such a purely violinist thing, i personally don't care for any transcriptions of it. i just like to see someone pull all of that beautiful noise out of a single violin and it's lost the second you transcribe it to anythingalthough i guess actually there is a lot of meaning in the notes themselves that isn't lost. is the chaconne's greatness only because it makes this magnificent cathedral out of a single violin? or is there worth just in the harmonies and melodic lines etc? now i'm undecided because one of the things i believe about bach is his music is pure and true and would survive played on literally any device capable of making tonal sound
>wrong board for selfies, maybe try >>>/soc/ instead?
>>124168934>so i don't see the point.It's not a deliberate, intellectual decision, it just sounds good to me and I like it, not sure what else to say beyond what I already have.>the reverse is also true, string quartets are too monochromatic to capture the full sound of a symphony, and they definitely don't have the volume required to replicate the true dynamic range of a symphony orchestra.Well said. Now those are truly the exemplars of 'worst of all worlds.' This is a bit different than full on string quartet arrangements, but I tried Harding's chamber orchestra of Mahler's 4th the other day and had the same reaction you've been trying to impart on me this whole time: "what's the point of this?">>124169082I love that Ozawa recording. Will check out the Elgar, thanks. Normally I actually don't really care for arrangements and transcriptions, but the aforementioned recordings seem to be the exception and, well, Bach I guess.
>>124169114>i just like to see someone pull all of that beautiful noise out of a single violin and it's lost the second you transcribe it to anythingPeople have pulled more out of a violin purely technically (Paganini).I believe the beauty of the piece is in its purely tonal and formal structure. The simplicity (not synonymous with "ease") that allows it to be played on a single violin is just a consequence of that.So I'm with Gould that Bach can be played on anything.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbTzYX-hYKwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2BWrmNhyXU
>>124169114>although i guess actually there is a lot of meaning in the notes themselves that isn't lost. is the chaconne's greatness only because it makes this magnificent cathedral out of a single violin? or is there worth just in the harmonies and melodic lines etc?the problem is more with the fact that articulation on the violin is utterly alien from articulation on the piano. the reason the chaconne is voiced the way it is is because of the inherent limitations of the violin; limitations which the piano completely ignores and then some. part of the spirit of the music is the fact that the chaconne pushes up against these boundaries with its quadruple stops and contrapuntal voicings, forcing the violinist to bring his playing capabilities and instrument to the brink in order to achieve the intended sound, whereas a pianist playing the same notes would simply leap right over any difficulties in the score without issue. the left hand alone manages to recapture some of the limitations of the human hand, but does not capture the limitations of large chords and string crossings on the violin. >one of the things i believe about bach is his music is pure and true and would survive played on literally any device capable of making tonal soundi think this is a fallacy. all of bach's music was very thoughtfully and intentionally designed for the instrument(s) it was written for. this means that it often translates well onto similar instruments; for example, the cello suites effortlessly translate to double bass and viola; but instruments completely unrelated (see the unceasing myriad of performances of the cello suites on bass instruments ranging from bassoon to trombone to tuba) do not achieve remotely the same effect. the prevalence and efficacy of the former is what has led to the fallacy of the latter; bach's music is no different from any other composer's. >>124169147very nice selfie, but this isn't the right board for that. maybe try >>>/soc/ instead?
>>124169203>paganini is harder to play so the chaconne is obsolete as a technical standard of the violin repertoireretarded
>>124169203yeah i've loved some crazy bach arrangements because the music just shines regardless. like this stupid anime version of the crazy fugue from musical offering that is somehow one of the clearest and most lucid versions i knowhttps://youtu.be/3iCSdZzsARg?si=1mTvuph0M7ipzLBJbut something about chaconne feels just about how a violin FEELS. maybe it's just because i'm a string player
>>124169250We must be reading different posts.>>124169203>So I'm with Gould that Bach can be played on anything.>>124169114>now i'm undecided because one of the things i believe about bach is his music is pure and true and would survive played on literally any device capable of making tonal soundTruth. Of course, there will always be preferences.
>>124169233this is a good post
>>124169250Reading comprehension, please>>124169188>I love that Ozawa recording.It's really the best I've heard. The way he pulls the orchestra together and kicks up the tempo slightly for that final stretto in the fugue. Haven't heard anyone else do that.
Personally I think most solo pieces sound better when played by several instruments
>>124169233Well said. I should check out some of those viola recordings of the cello suites, seems appealing.
>>124169269>but something about chaconne feels just about how a violin FEELS.almost like it was written for the violin and with every technical characteristic of the violin in mind. >>124169282>>124169292then why mention paganini at all? the existence of more difficult and technical music does not make the chaconne any less idiomatic on the violin. and the idea that the chaconne is simplified at all to accommodate just a solo violinist is fucking retarded as well, writing a piece with that level of complexity of counterpoint and voicing for an instrument that can barely play chords is infinitely harder than it would be for any keyboard instrument. >>124169312viola versions of the cello suites are more of interest to violists than anyone else, if i'm being honest.
Kinda similar to the recent discussion: any works or recordings involving the use of a piano ensemble? Whether it be like a trio or a quartet, playing different lines, or like an orchestra, with a whole large section playing in tandem. Probably isn't practical with a piano but figured I'd try asking.
>>124169269>. like this stupid anime version of the crazy fugue from musical offering that is somehow one of the clearest and most lucid versions i knowoh yeah that one. One thing I wish for is that the bass were a touch louder, it gets drowned out very easily by the higher parts.>but something about chaconne feels just about how a violin FEELS. The kinesthetic experience of playing a piece on the instrument as you're listening to the sound produced always adds to your appreciation. As a pianist I feel the same way about piano pieces. I think it's the same for all musicians and their instrument of choice. I'm sure this gives multi-instrumentalists an unparalleled compositional advantage, because they proceed from the kinesthetic vantage point of each instrument they're composing for and its synergy with the auditory aspect as opposed to purely the sound.Hence why I'm reconsidering my original stance and leaning towards accepting what >>124169233 said
>>124169354piano trios, quartets and quintets are very common? as in a piano and some string instruments. or do you mean multiple pianos at once? in which case my first thoughts are a couple of rachmaninoff suites and some messian stuff
>>124169424Multiple pianos, yeah, sorry. Beyond a duo (4 hands) of course, so either something like a quartet with four pianos, or an orchestra with a piano section all playing the same line.>couple of rachmaninoff suites and some messian stuffI'll look into it, thanks.
New thread when
>>124169484When the counter turns red, dingus.Oh shi---
>>124169484Soon
>>124169415>I'm sure this gives multi-instrumentalists an unparalleled compositional advantage, because they proceed from the kinesthetic vantage point of each instrument they're composing for and its synergy with the auditory aspect as opposed to purely the sound.while partially true, one also has to remember that ensemble music is rarely virtuoso music. a piece written for string quartet will rarely have the same demands as a piece written for solo violin or violin and piano. the sort of knowledge of the instrument required to write the bach chaconne is not necessarily applicable to someone simply seeking to write a string quartet. this is partly why good violin concertos are few and far between, and the ones that do exist were either written by a violinist or in collaboration with and for a violinist, whereas music for strings in any arrangement is dime a dozen. >>124169447a piano duo already gives you access to at least 8 voices spanning up to 4 octaves on the piano at once. there is really no need to arrange for anything more unless you're going for some sort of gimmicky avant-garde bullshit.
>>124169504>a piano duo already gives you access to at least 8 voices spanning up to 4 octaves on the piano at once. there is really no need to arrange for anything more unless you're going for some sort of gimmicky avant-garde bullshit.Of course. Just curious.
>>124169341>then why mention paganini at all? As an example of someone that managed to get more out of the technical limits and characteristics of the violin (although I'm sure it was a more modern form of a violin than what Bach was familiar with anyway). I didn't imply it was any less idiomatic or less of a compositional achievement. I just think its beauty does not lie in the way the piece may or may not sound the limits of the violins' technical or acoustic capabilities.>and the idea that the chaconne is simplified at all to accommodate just a solo violinistNot at all what I said either. I think the Chaconne's beauty is in the richness and depth of the material that it generates out of a frugal, economical but very inspired use of a constrained pool of musical resources that a single violin staff provides. That's what I meant by its simplicity (a genius simplicity).
>>124169504>>124169504>a piano duo already gives you access to at least 8 voices spanning up to 4 octaves on the piano at once. there is really no need to arrange for anything more unless you're going for some sort of gimmicky avant-garde bullshit.Although, would a piano section in an orchestra not sound good in the same way string sections do? I guess it doesn't, else it would be done, but could be interesting.
new>>124169543>>124169543>>124169543
>>124169535it wouldn’t. percussive instruments do not function by the same rules of doubling that string/wind/brass instruments do; you don’t see people doubling timpani parts for the same reason.
>>124169555Ah makes sense, thanks.
