Taking a planetary-sized shit on schoenberg edition.This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious thread: >>124337498
just deleted mendelssohn mahler and schoenberg from my hard drive for obvious reasons.
What scratches the same itch as Wagner OTHER THAN WAGNER OBVIOUSLY?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLjzrrwb4kw
>>124350610Richard Wagner.
>>124350610brucknerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah9uswhkAuk
>>124350758but bruckner isn’t tranny music
Béla Bartók Concerto for Orchestra https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clzcGIdMaN0&pp=ygUdY29uY2VydG8gZm9yIG9yY2hlc3RyYSBiYXJ0b2s%3DI don’t really get how this is a concerto, unless it’s just a joke
>>124350803it just means that the piece is written for a virtuosic orchestra and contains multiple exposed soloistic parts for different sections of the orchestra. not that deep.
Magnardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRp6qyCxiMc&list=OLAK5uy_kbmr8T1IqWXzxmuw_NkwadTZDpKakF31E
Are Kurt Weill's compositions really opera? They sound more in the domain of Jazz to me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF_jtz0kP9s
>>124351140like a sad operetta
>>124348566Some fine baguettes
Prelude and Fugue in A Major Op. 87 - Dmitri Shostakovichhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enzVGCxY9E4&pp=ygUac2hvc3Rha292aWNoIGZ1Z3VlIGEgbWFqb3I%3D
Wagner is painful to listen to, I can see his desperation for innovation and desire to be different, unique and distinct.... but then again if you listen closely you will observe a cheap, godless plaster of Beethoven. Wagner is more of a mythmaker than a musician. Even if you hate melody, you can't bring yourself to like Wagner unless you are a complete transsexual.I honestly think Wagnersisters suffer from dysphoria, there is no other explanation for their obsession over cheap churned out schmaltzy crap from a music masquerader.
>>124351620This but Schoenberg.
>>124351625Thank you Wagnersister.
>>124350549can anyone recommend any good methods for learning to play from throrough-bass that aren't like over a hundred dollars?
>>124351637Thank you sistersister.
>>124349003>>124350767Whenever I try and listen to a string quartet from the likes of, say, Franck, Grieg, Elgar, Sibelius, Schumann, and others, I go in expecting a modicum of late Beethoven's genius but I invariably come away remembering very little of it at all. Could be a 'me' problem I guess.
>>124351770grieg, elgar, sibelius, and schumann are all third rate and not even remotely comparable to late beethoven, and franck’s sole string quartet suffers from excessive formalism, particularly in the finale (which even during its time was recognized as the weakest movement of the piece), though it is still one of the closest attempts.
kreutzner sonata sounds like that???
>>124350577you being retarded?
>>124350773nor is Wagnerthere is no tranny classical
>>124351956evidently untrue, wagnersister
>>124351850Well I didn't mean a 1:1, though that's still all good to know, I just meant of similar quality, scale, and memorability -- I hate to be rude but most of those I'm talking about sound like 90% string ensemble filler lol, going through the motions. I suppose what I'm saying is there seems to be far less good string quartets/quintets than there are symphonies, even within the same composer.
Mozart's "Haydn quartets" > Beethoven's late quartets
>>124352147I agree as blasphemous as it might be.
I don't know why it never occured to me, but it is interesting that Spain has essentially no meaningful classical composers.
>>124352112>I hate to be rude but most of those I'm talking about sound like 90% string ensemble filler lolthat has more to do with the fact that you’re listening to grieg, elgar, and sibelius than anything else. >>124352147no one believes this lol
Insects, butterflies, moths - they are all living flowers. They are the most subtle caresses, almost without touching...They are all born of the sun and the sun nourishes them...This sunlike caress is the closest to me - take my tenth sonata - it is an entire sonata from insects
>>124352208Then? The post-Beethoven state of quality string ensemble music surely can't be limited to Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schubert, and Dvorak then skip to Shostakovich and Nielsen. The romantic era has that little to offer in the genre? That's what I'm getting at, it's baffling!
>>124352147Everyone believes this.
>>124352254>shostakovich>nielsen>dvorak>qualityLMFAOyou're finally finding out that the romantic era was largely second rate, especially in chamber music which had dwindling interest compared to the highly politicized and publicized war of the romantics taking place on the orchestral front. >>124352257bait is supposed to be believable.
>>124352147Based and true.
124352147124352257124352309all me btw
Romantic era was the peak, both sides of the war had produced better music than their preceders.
>>124352299Well now you're just bumming me out even more :( Also give those Nielsen string quartets another listen, they're pretty good! No use in trying to convince you on Dvorak and Shostakovich.All I know is I'm relistening to the works on the TC Top 50 + 200 lists as it's a good way to determine what to listen to that day, and far more often than not I'm coming away disappointed and unsatisfied, not unlike how the last girl I dated must have felt. I guess it is what it is then.
>thovensister is a Mozart underraterCLT was right
>>124352159uuhhhh we got uuuhhhhh Tomas Luis de Victoria and uuuhhhh...
>>124352339You sound so pathetic.
>>124352299>>124352339Also, so what, you're saying it goes Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms (and not even his string quartets, which is why I keep making sure to include all ensemble/chamber forms), some of Mendelssohn, then Schoenberg, and that's it?
>>124352339nielsen was simply not a major composer, comparing his chamber music to brahms, mendelssohn or schubert is just laughable. >>124352366you're forgetting berg, webern, and bartok, but that's about it, yeah. every other modernist 20th century string quartet is either a derivative of schoenberg or bartok.
>>124352351https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ythXbVxQ9kThere's ole boy
>>124352343mozart is correctly rated, with his string quartets below beethoven's best, and his best piano concerti above beethoven's. they simply excelled at different genres.
>>124352355I might have hammed it up a bit much to counterbalance the usual toxicity of this general.
>>124352159Sor, Falla. Arriaga, Victoria, Sarasate, etc
Passacaglia and Fugue-Harry Somershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-owiLXSPA&ab_channel=LouisvilleOrchestra-Topic
>>124352382I'm not saying Nielsen's is on par, just that in a field of mediocrity, his are pretty good, standouts. And alright, fair enough.
>>124352435calling them standouts sounds pretty fucking generous too, he's lucky he's not lumped in with sibelius if we're being honest.
>>124352446For his chamber music or in general? His symphonies and concertos are pretty damn great. Even though I wouldn't consider any of them masterpieces, they're like two tiers below, and that's still pretty damn great.
>>124352476for his chamber music. his orchestral music is significant insofar as no one is really competing with him in the same field.
It's amazing to me that Karajan overcame being a literal and willful Nazi to become the biggest conductor ever. If you mention liking Karajan to classical music knowers in current year, would it be a faux pas?
>>124352553he didn't overcome jack shit lol, he achieved his stature after the war precisely because of his position in nazi germany. he wouldn't have received half the marketing push he did from major labels had he not already been hitler's second favorite conductor.
>>124352553yes but only because people now know he was overrated as fuck, not because of the nazi thing
i like Karajan because all of his recordings have a shoegaze sound
>>124352588shoo, gay.
>>124352553Nah I wouldn't think so, people still like Wagner. It wasn't like he was shooting Jews in the streets he joined for career reasons. It is impressive though
>>124352572You're falling for the programming.
>>124352626apparently using your ears to listen to karajan's subpar records and figuring out that they're nothing special is "programming", who knew? i should get a job in compsci if it's that easy to program.
Paul Hindemith-Concerto for Orchestrahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujhVDAD8SEA&ab_channel=TheWelleszCompany
>>124352652More like a job as a computer, as you're the one getting programmed.
>>124352728to listen to good music instead of subpar music? sounds like a deal to me.
>>124352652>>124352742>soijak ass comments
>>124352765who are you quoting, schizo sister?
now playingstart of Beethoven: Cello Sonata No. 3 in A Major, Op. 69https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNyZiCFNIA&list=OLAK5uy_nXIhBcNTauC8tAbotT_pfS9t4T8iSdA6s&index=7https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXIhBcNTauC8tAbotT_pfS9t4T8iSdA6s>On this recording, Steven Isserlis, together with his regular collaborator, forte pianist Robert Levin, presents a magisterial compendium of Beethoven's complete works for cello and piano, including Beethoven's arrangement of his Horn Sonata. The use of the fortepiano opens up a wealth of sonic possibilities for these works. The five Cello Sonatas span Beethoven's compositional epochs and comprise the most important cycle of cello sonatas in the entire repertoire. Isserlis writes that the composer, "transforms himself from confident virtuoso to supreme master of classical form, and then beyond that to a mystic exploring strange new worlds of unearthly beauty - a wondrous transfiguration."
Claude Vivier: Pulau Dewata https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIr8iPb_jGo&ab_channel=WelleszTheatre.
>>124352825thanks RYMsister
>>124352831ok
>>124352845much appreciated RYMsister
>>124352824>This recording uses period instruments, and the percussive and weak sound of the piano is immediately striking.Ah that's why it sounds like that. Still good...
>>124352855k
>>124352873many thanks RYMsister
>>124352899cool
Perusing Amazon for an unfamiliar, ideally recently released (but not necessarily recorded) Beethoven cycle -- anyone familiar with and have any thoughts on this one?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds1JJWFFP5c&list=OLAK5uy_lQ-7sN1NEYDfWZJyByAPGpOksm7tzdSo8&index=10>Beethoven's nine symphonies are one of the fundamental building-blocks in the history of Western music. Under the direction of Franz Konwitschny they were an early part of the recording and release programme at Eterna, where recordings of the Fifth and Sixth Symphonies with the Gewandhaus Orchestra appeared on several shellac discs each. This stereo edition of the complete cycle was made in co-production with Philips in the Bethanienkirche in Leipzig during three extended recording sessions over the period from 1959 to 1961. Franz Konwitschny (1901-1962), a conductor known for his down-to-earth approach to music-making, was appointed Gewandhaus kapellmeister in 1949. Born in northern Moravia, he studied in Brno for two years and then enrolled at the Leipzig Institute which Mendelssohn had founded in 1843. During that period (1923-25) he assimilated the city's musical traditions with an open and alert mind. By the time he began to study in Leipzig, his ability to play the violin and viola had already reached such a standard that Furtwängler chose him as a substitute for Gewandhaus concerts. Just as he would in a live concert, he took the refinement and precision of orchestral playing for granted. With his authoritative, flexible and impulsive but relatively sparse gestures, Konwitschny knew how to inspire the orchestra and respond to it. When interruptions or corrections became necessary, his unfailing sense of pace enabled him to resume playing at exactly the same tempo as before, thereby preserving a sense of over-all coherence. The featured recordings are important testimonials of the Beethoven tradition at the Gewandhaus as well as the German recording history.
>>124352905how gracious RYMsister
>>124352919i hear you
>>124350532It's great but not *that* great. Brahms, Tchaikovsky, maybe even Dvorak and Mendelssohn, Prokofiev if you combine his two.
>>124352918way too slow>>124352942very generous RYMsister
>>124352973ya
>>124352984duly noted RYMsister
>>124353012ok
>>124352918This actually sounds incredible, nearly ideal.
Leibowitz recorded the best Beethoven cycle.
>>124353059lmfao>>124353081gielen’s EMI cycle is the same thing but basically better in every way, you should check it out.
>>124352778anon was projecting his thoughts about your responses back onto you. the quote is what he thinks of your responses. moreover, the soi meme is often used to describe those who consume soi products because of their ability to emasculate men in more ways than just having them consume phyto-estrogens. for example, when someone relies too much on these products they end up neglecting necessary nutrients from, say, meats and the like. this in turn affects their endochrine system which causes them to become even more gay than when they were drinking half a cup or a cup a day.
>>124353161pills time
but which work is it!? So annoying.
>>124352955the post you replied to wasn't up for debate. it wasn't an invitation for someone to come along and suggest some other concerto. no, it was an announcement of what i thought was the best violin concerto. maybe the following is a foreign idea from where you come from but i was raised with manners, enough to know when and when not to quote someone on a matter so close to his heart. consider that will you for the next time you attempt to "counterbalance the usual toxicity of this general."
>>124353221I was trying to continue the discussion. This is, ideally, the part where you say a few more words on the matter. And what?
>>124353221Check out Bartok's violin concertos they're good too
now playing, more cello musicstart of Mendelssohn: Sonata No. 1 in B Flat Major for cello & piano, Op. 45, MWV Q27https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coDP15hnMco&list=OLAK5uy_lr0pMUBTITHL1m5YyJ_hERvXw8cCHr4cs&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lr0pMUBTITHL1m5YyJ_hERvXw8cCHr4cs
>>124353393I love Harrell's cello playing, although I'm quite sure his Russian romanticism approach is too much for some, for me it's perfect. Definitely gonna have to try out his Beethoven and Brahms soon.
Wagner would be good if he cut like an hour and a half.
The latest Hurwitz video completely obliterates formalistfags and theoryfags who can't grasp the concept of unexplainable genius (not just regular theorychads)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_UcbP-DvKQ
>>124353499something something cocks in and around his orifices
Borodin: Symphony No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1WhrviIOY&list=OLAK5uy_k5oIXKJbg9-Lobk7lWU7OKEC2D31ueAVE&index=1
>>124353499Based
Huh, just realized I've never listened to Mozart's String Quartets nos. 21-23 -- always figured they ended at Hoffmeister/no. 20 I guess.
(((Schoenberg)))'s serialism is not music. Schoenberg has not produced any music. An awful trending pop song is more musical than Schoenberg.
https://litter.catbox.moe/l5ox1f.mp3
>>124354216it’s so funny how tourists fixate on schoenberg when he’s not even the most modernist of the SVS
>>124354216dilate freak
>>124354241He founded (((modernism))) retard
>>124354276the irony is that literally the opposite is true, schoenberg was a conservative.
>>124354229https://litter.catbox.moe/ut7jp2.mp3 i meant to do first movement not finale
recordings from mercury records always fatigues me. im not sure if it's worth the clarity provided by them.
>>124354376>>124354229Gorgeous stuff.>1:15:54:o
>>124354448toughen up, buttercup
>>124353982K. 575 is such a great work, and the slow movement of K. 590 is one of Mozart's many wonders in that genre
>>124350577Shit taste, got it.
>>124351140Yes, it's structurally much more similar to opera than jazz. Also Eisler > Weill.
>>124351770It's not a you problem, you can skip basically all post-Beethovenian pre-Schoenberg music except Mendelssohn and Mahler without missing out on much.
>>124354655LMFAO
>>124354655you can’t understand schoenberg without listening to brahms though
>>124354694Fine, make an allowance for Brahms piano trios and the piano quintet, happy?
>>124354710weird selection of chamber music that doesn't really explain why brahms is relevant to schoenberg either.
let's try<------https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTKsZ3f6Rkw&list=OLAK5uy_nBjgFmzFcOf11Q2eF2w6GfY7D1WPrJsj8&index=1
ah they've perfected cloning technology
>>124354694Nor will Mahler make any sense without Wagner. The whole thing is asinine.
>>124354479the numbers you posted add up to the number seven, with the word gorgeous, when the letters are converted to their respective number, adding up to eight; stuff to nine; and, six for the letter o. the number three is uncovered when added together. but perhaps you had another intention behind your post.
>>124354967...Just asking why your upload was so long when the album cover doesn't name another piece. Unless I've forgotten how long the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto is -- I'd kill for it to be over an hour long!
>>124354967pills time>>124354986i'd kill (more specifically, i'd kill an incestuous russian faggot) for it to not exist at all.
>>124353499Great tunes are great because they have form.If people here could stop posting links to this Jew and his retarded comments that would be great.
>>124353499If Hurwitz is the one to say it then it's automatically wrong
>>124355249Hurwitz has neither a degree in music nor experience in composing it. He is a self-chosen expert and probably gay too if the rumors are true.
>>124355349pretty sure the man himself openly referring to himself as gay is a lot more substantive than a mere rumor
>>124355401we wouldn't know, we don't waste our time listening to what he has to say
Chopin > Liszt
>>124355838my shit in the toilet > both
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tJPUoQwYXg
Does /classical/ rate Paul Galbraith? I'm enjoying his Haydn keyboard sonata arrangements a lot, perhaps even more than Bach's sonatas and partitas for unaccompanied violin.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nBmlYAHG1xOZAYuYxt0HZoXzFyLYkFtpU
>>124352652>karajan's subpar records>karajan>subpar recordsuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this nigga serious? karajan literally has the best beethoven 9th recording
>>124356388lmao
>>124356400ikr? so dumb to say karajan has bad recordingsthat dude was probably being a troll though
>>124355030Jokes aside, it's impossible to not like his violin concerto.
>>124356388>>124356448lol, lmao, rofl even>>124356528it’s very possible, in fact i’m doing it right now.
>>124356687Proofs?
>>124356710the proof is right here: tchaikovsky’s violin concerto sucks cock
>>124356214https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8D0vnNyGhki like haydn on guitar
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfGDSC6dyQ&list=OLAK5uy_mGHwH9o4MrUgdDOPZc0KES6Xl67jJDioQ&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mGHwH9o4MrUgdDOPZc0KES6Xl67jJDioQ
What are the worthwhile Schubert piano sonatas? Just the last four (D 894, D 958, 959 and 960) + D840? More?
>>124356939And any thoughts on Elisabeth Leonskaja's performances of them?
the most retarded post in this thread:>>124355838
>>124356939
>>124350549daily reminder that atonality doesn't exist.
>>124357070Ah didn't know she had a complete set, good shout, thanks. It's more difficult finding recordings of solo piano repertoire unless you're searching up by pianist, but that takes forever and generally one searches by the music they're in the mood for.
the most retarded post in this thread:>>124357044
>>124356388please never post again
>>124354583Thanks, gonna listen to all 3 of the Prussian quartets tonight.
>>124356388dangerously, nationally, socially based
>>124357103you will be happy to know, and i to relay, that haebler has recently received an entire reissue of her catalogue in 2022. she is so far ahead for best girl award that the contenders, would if there were some, could never hope to catch up.https://files.catbox.moe/ifg93v.pdf
>>124357294Interesting stuff, thanks!
>>124357075put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124357407dodecaphony is based. dodecaphony is beautiful.
>>124357423didn’t ask, pedophile kraut. put your trip back on.
watching alien documentaries on mute while listening to scriabin :)
>>124357497https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEwAyfkHKu8
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPOieCzMMMo
Gonna go through both the Blomstedt/Dresden and Blomstedt/Gewandhaus Beethoven symphonic cycles. On quick glance the latter has unsurprisingly longer runtime, characteristic of the slower tempos Blomstedt adopted in his old age during his tenure at Gewandhaus Leipzig. Any thoughts on them?
>>124357548lovely, thank you brother
>>124357742both too slow
>>124357975It is Blomstedt. I'm in the mood for that style at the moment though.
Why did it take other composers ~80 years to catch up with late Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE2iyBRmA_g&t=997shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAgdd2VqLVc
>>124357975His 2nd cycle isn't really that slow at all.
Does /assical/ still care about Gioachino Rossini?
>>124358752He was always a fat wop writing greasy tunes for lubricious Italians, but he's still great.
>>124356783>unavailable in america
>>124358427sure, but it’s objectively still too slow. >>124358667nope, it’s too slow. if it’s not at beethoven’s metronome markings, it’s too slow.
>>124358604the whole premise of your question is wrong.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlNzCYuEz7s
>>124359040>chopincels actually think their shitty fucking etudes are in any way comparable to late beethovenLMFAO
>>124359051yes.
>>124359089sorry bro, your keyboard exercises aren’t comparable to the grosse fuge. pick an actual good composer to bat for next time.
>>124359126if Chopin's etudes are mere exercises than so are Bach's inventions.
>>124359257https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%A9tudealso, unlike chopin, bach’s pedagogical music is also of artistic value.
now playingstart of Bizet: Symphony in C Major, GB 115, WD 33https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoj_UmAqA94&list=OLAK5uy_n1EKoD2Z7LxbtiJu72PJ1vbX_4qJQ1f08&index=7https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n1EKoD2Z7LxbtiJu72PJ1vbX_4qJQ1f08>Bizet's jolly little symphony was only discovered and premiered in the 1920s, and it immediately established itself as a repertoire staple. Obviously neoclassical in outlook, and scored for a more modest orchestra than Mozart or Haydn would have found familiar, it has an absolutely irresistible charm and melodic appeal. It resembles Prokofiev's Classical Symphony in so many ways that you would think that the composers were contemporaries, rather than separated by more than half a century! Leopold Stokowski was something like 90 when he recorded this sizzling performance. How the man did it was anyone's guess. Just be glad that he did! --David Hurwitz
>>124357742The Blomstedt/Dresden Beethoven 9th is the best recording of the work in the 21st century
>>124359376an impressive feat for a recording from 1980
>>124359398Oh the boxset with that picture had me mixed up. Must be a rerelease then, my mistake
now playing, last of the weekendstart of Fauré: Piano Quartet No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 15https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuhuVa-S6M&list=OLAK5uy_l0hkGFlDiaPPCTaA5EoYFx4UdFjQdxhvk&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l0hkGFlDiaPPCTaA5EoYFx4UdFjQdxhvkI love the Domus recording of Brahms' Piano Quartets, so coming across this one I had to give it a listen, and unsurprisingly, it does not disappoint.
can't stop listening to Elgar's two symphonies, cello concerto, and violin concerto, they're all so good! and have the exact sound I'm looking for, especially the symphonies.
>>124350610Gluck? Am I alone on this?
>>124359721So aside from Elgar and Vaughan Williams, who are some other English symphonists worth checking out?
>>124359748https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzj_WWyk0Bkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE__Tyze3skB
>>124359773Damn he's got a lot of symphonies... just added a recording which has his 6th, 28th, 29th, and 31st! Hope it's good. Thanks.
>>124359773>>124359788Just went looking for a recording of his first symphony "The Gothic" -- wtf, what a behemoth. and the recording comes with a 9 minute closing track of applause lol
>>124359788Brian's status as an obscure composer will remain because he went for atmospheric effects instead of catchy tunes.
>>124359810Hmm I usually don't care for atmospheric 'soundscape' stuff but I'll still give it a try. The one you posted seems like a nice middle-ground, like a lot of Vaughan Williams, so hopefully I'll enjoy the rest too.
>>124359819his 4th is the most accessible in my opinion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2IsLJFrX9s
>>124359837Much appreciated. Also found and added his violin concerto.
>>124359795>If you sent Havergal Brian’s Gothic Symphony back in time, the Teutoburg Forest could not conceal it. Hadrian’s Wall could not contain it. Greek Fire would burn it not. >China’s Great Wall would crumble. The Pacific Ocean would welcome McClusky and his wingmen. Manstein would abort Operational Winter-Storm. Khe Sanh, besieged by the NVA, would fall like Dien Bien Phu. Resistance, verily, would be useless. This is it: monster of monsters. A latter-day Shelob without a web.>Again, I own this Ungeheuer (stick to German in such matters). In all honesty, I’ve never made it to the foothills of its Te Deum. However kamikaze it might be, this performance and recording alike are superlative – so much more listenable, so to speak, than the unspeakable horror on Marco Polo. Brian has his own palette as a symphonist: don’t read this as praise for there’s starch in the mix, rhythmically speaking. Perhaps only God - the Ever-Before, Now and Ever-Future – can appreciate this uber-monstrosity for what it is. Mind you, the same comment could apply to the Devil who is impish in such matters. In any event, this is Iron Man stuff, with a dose of tungsten.
Leindorf's 9th is the only one you need
>>124360028whose 9th???
note for myself tomorrow: listen to Rachmaninoff's Etudes (Ovchinnikov) and Debussy's Etudes (Roge), because I'm ending tonight with Brahms' Piano Concertos (Arrau/Haitink/RCO)
>>124360176*pats in your head*
>>124357075impressive. can you do a harmonic analysis of pic related?
>>124357075It does. A chromatic run is already atonal no matter how much you cope and divide it by chunks. Human ear objectively judges it as atonal, therefore it is atonal.
>>124361259atonality doesn't exist.take your meds.
Atonality doesn't exist even in Schoenberg's works, because of that unchangeable physical law concerning the interrelation of the harmonics, and their relation to their fundamental tone. When we hear a single tone, we will interpret it subconsciously as a fundamental tone. When we hear a following different tone, we will-again subconsciously-project it on the first tone (felt as being the fundamental one) and interpret it according to its relation to the latter. In a so-called atonal work, one selects now this, now another tone as a fundamental one, and projects all other happenings of the piece onto these selected fundamentals. The same phenomenon appears when dealing with so-called polytonal music. Here polytonality exists only for the eye when looking at the music. But our mental hearing again will select one key as a fundamental key and will project the tones of the other keys on this selected one. The parts in different keys will be interpeted as consisting of tones of the chosen key.
>>124361366>Atonality doesn't exist even in Schoenberg's works, because of that unchangeable physical law concerning the interrelation of the harmonics, and their relation to their fundamental tone.Where is Wagner? No Wagner? Not reading. Edit in Wagner and only then Ill "consider" reading the entire post.
>SchoenbergApollo The ProphetThe BeginningThe MessiahThe End
>>124360797here you go.
Is Leinsdorf the greatest conductor of Wagner (on record)? His Die Walküre is about the greatest thing I've ever heard and pic related is pretty dope, too.
What music player do you guys use to listen to classical?
>>124360797>>124361599furthermore, the harmonic resolutions occur on beat 4 of bar 1 in the form of B to Em and beat 1 of bar 4 in the form of G to Cm.from the first resolution on Em the harmony moves to the dominant of Em before introducing the region of C which is then followed by a chord which feels pulled towards either C(m) or E. E major is subsequently introduced, and this chord is then followed by a G major chord which resolves to Cm.The opening four bars is therefore a phrase revolving around the relationship T-D* in C-major.
>>124361289Obviously it does. Atonal, dissonant chords and intervals even differ in soundwaves, mathematically, they have jarring soundwaves as opposed to consonant intervals.Horizontal haemony works the same way.In fact, tonality doesn't exist. Nothing is perfectly tonal, everything is inherently dissonant, overtones are never perfect, take that, brainlet.
>>124361792atonality doesn't exist. get help.
>>124361653Cd player
>>124361802Tonality doesn't exist, objectively. You can't construct a 12 tone row using perfect fifths and return to the same pitch, we have been using a flawed, atonal and dissonant system all this time.
imagine being this retarded:>>124361836
>>124361847Tonality is an illusion, brainlet kraut.
>>124361853your tits are an illusion, tranny janny.
>>124361859You are still a faggot and tonality is still an illusion, brainlet kraut.
Which would you consider better works overall in Bach's orchestral catalogue, the Brandenburgs or the Orchestral suites? And what would you consider the best recordings of each?
>>124361884the orchestral suites have more variety, but they are both great.
Schoenberghttps://youtu.be/YB6SWMjLoWQ
>>124361636>Is Leinsdorf the greatest conductor of Wagner (on record)?No, that would be Furtwangler.
Let's all just drop our copes and admit the irrefutable fact: that we all shouted and moaned in pure orgasmic pleasure during the Five Pieces for Orchestra.
>>124360176arrau's performance with guilini and philharmonia was remastered in 2022. i believe art et sons is responsible for it.https://files.catbox.moe/u7tbtl.mp3
Nobody cares about Schoenberg.
>>124362165i like his live recoding on moscow with Rozhdestvensky morehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J7UZv9JH28https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0gF3Pctw0
>>124362174I do.
>>124362208That is because your parents don't love you. You were abandoned and rejected. Your conflicted and fractured personality finds solace in conflicted and fractured music.
>>124362174we do
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzeFi3swaDk
>>124362272What is a good resource for listening to 78s? I like hearing some more romantic sounding Bach recordings but titling on the internet archive and youtube suck balls. Is there any good resource that catalogues them by the BWV/opus/KV/HWV number?
>>124362339search by label, Biddulph, Naxos Historical, Pearl, Preiser, Marston, Symposium, etcor by performerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRy5TVdIUFwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ARB-eAcC9Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91PWrrFqJj8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFCpuAWY7m8
>>124359837>his 4th is the most accessible in my opinionthat isn't your opinion, it belongs to someone else. for there is no way you of all people could distinguish between the most and least accessible out of 32 symphonies.
>>124361653what a fantastic question. im not sure what it has to do with classical comma but i will answer your question with an air of cordiality. on my linux i use rhythmbox and a pirated version of musicolet on my portable phone, which has a third party operating system, no cell service, and never does it ever have its wifi or bluetooth turned on. someday ill be able to purchase a dedicated mp3 player and install rockbox on it.
>>124362139hahahahaha
What is the best Pachelbel's Canon recording?
>>124359748>I believe that there is little probability that the twelve-note scale will ever produce anything more than morbid or entirely cerebral growths. It might deal successfully with neuroses of various kinds, but I cannot imagine it associated with any healthy and happy concept such as young love or the coming of spring. - Arnold Bax
I love the bassoon entrance in Pohjola's Daughter.
>>124362375>Wood's way with baroque music was controversial even at the time; after a 'Messiah' as early as 1912, a reviewer remarked, after listing Wood's tempo-changes, that 'not a few [of those present] felt wounded'. Here, though, it is noticeable that he keeps the music moving; he does occasionally (e.g. at 2:30) lets himself be tempted to draw back at a cadence, but not as often as, say, Mengelberg might have done. I heartily agree with Shellackophile's last sentence; rhythmic vitality and clear articulation can cover many a sin. It is a pity that the bass is somewhat inflated in this transfer; nonetheless, it is good to have this extinct style of 'Big Bach' represented here.Interesting, is there any interesting source that talks about the history of Bach performance and how it evolved (Or devolved depending on your opinion)? Sometimes I hear a harpsichord and sometimes I don't in these early recordings. When did harpsichords get widely used in Bach performances again after the baroque period>
>>124363300>I cannot imagine it associated with any healthy and happy concept such as young love or the coming of springok? That's not what it's for
>>124363448the sentence had already incorporated the composers thoughts on atonality before having shared his opinion on what music should elicit in listeners, i.e. healthy and happy concepts. had you not ignored the context, which was cut right out of the picture, you would not have replied to my post with a herp derp ok question mark. notably, it was a shallow and narrow minded reading of such a simple sentence. it leaves the reader wondering if this behavior, the behavior you have just expressed, is the result of having been exposed to atonality.
>>124363562>his opinion on what music should elicit in listeners, i.e. healthy and happy conceptsthat's a stupid and not a valid or respectful opinion to have
>>124363586context includes information about why something is stated. here we have two opposing views, one ending in neuroses and the other filled with healthy and happy concepts. what about this is difficult for you to understand?
>>124361859That my friend is not the real tranny janny. The real one has a vendetta against capital letters. That is a greasy freebooter
>>124362148https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g9A6ctjHAxE&pp=ygUKTm8gbm8gbWFuIA%3D%3D
>>124360176hey, thanks last night me>>124362165ty will check it out as my next Brahms Piano Concerto recording to listen to
>>124357456Put your trip back on
>>124361289>>124361802>>124361847>>124361859put your trip back on, pedophile kraut>>124361366delusional pasta>>124361599>>124361752stop ban evading, pedophile kraut
schoenbug :DD
There are no surprises with Mozart
>>124350610I think you'll find what you're looking for on reddit
There is no good recording of Prokofiev's Symphony-Concerto. Apparently it's what Bernstein had his mind on performing and recording next before he passed. Sad.
>>124364161good riddance
Anyone listen to Paolo Quagliati?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YI2WCL0cfuA&pp=ygUPcGFvbG8gcXVhZ2xpYXRp
>>124364161It’s a shame he was a great conductor
>>124362375Can't find much Pearl on youtube
>>124364021deaf retard
>>124363433https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_practice_of_Bach%27s_musichttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_harpsichord
>>124364353not surprising, label is defuncthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLykbUT7d9ksome recordings on pearl of Elisabeth Schumann are on rutracker tho
>>124364462No that's Beethoven you're thinking of
>>124359773That first piece is a mess, A MESS
>>124359376Let's give it a try thenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9NI2cLVI4&list=OLAK5uy_mXByLf5pY5dJUDnwaVuJ6MIVicmOxUhEg&index=34
Time to listen to some Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues
>>124364643I've been doing a lot of alternating between those and Prokofiev's Piano Sonatas. All among the best 20th century solo piano music has to offer, no doubt.
>>124364647Are you underage?
>>124364665I've yet to hear them all.
>>124350577mahler > wagner
>>124364730Ah, well enjoy! Also I'm sure you're happy with whatever recording you're listening to already but you should give this one a try:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6VSvzDwQek&list=OLAK5uy_mfu3MVlN6p9WIK5eigJDDHOPp6DKE5GUY&index=14Melnikov's performance elevated the work to new heights for me, and I loved the 24 Preludes and Fugues already!
>>124364665lol, lmao, rofl even>>124364710thankfully not, or bernstein would try to molest me.
>>124364798cause it sounds like something a teenager would say, you just try and grow up a little bit.
>>124364827It's just how Zoomers think and speak.
>>124364790That's actually the one I'm on right now, would you say that's the best one?
>>124361636For stereo era he's quite good but I prefer Bohm. Leinsdorf's Walkure is still one of the greatest, though. Wilkinson engineering, top tier singing, perfectly paced and played. What more can you ask for?
>>124364857Between Tatiana Nikolayeva's (which is the traditional benchmark recording and approach), Scherbakov's, and Ashkenazy's, the Melnikov one is easily my current favorite. It's also the most distinctive, as most performances tend to follow in Tatiana's footsteps, as she was the first pianist to perform and record it, picked by Shostakovich himself, which to me means Melnikov breathes new life into it with a style that best appeals to our contemporary sensibility. That's my view, anyway.
>>124364665Hilarious post.
>>124364827i think it’s a perfectly valid concern to point out bernstein’s pederastic behavior.
Bernstein is fucking trash.
>>124364911Think anon is referring more to the level of sexual detail than the point being made itself.
>>124364924his Eroica is the only one with perfect tempos in every movement
now playingstart of Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto in E Minor, Op. 64, MWV O 14https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYdtShCVNcA&list=OLAK5uy_lHuXpR5ayD8OxUs6k5PNp6Iuw_RJQmx94&index=2start of Bruch: Violin Concerto No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 26https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLNuYMMKw0&list=OLAK5uy_lHuXpR5ayD8OxUs6k5PNp6Iuw_RJQmx94&index=4https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lHuXpR5ayD8OxUs6k5PNp6Iuw_RJQmx94>Midori is a grown-up and is no longer being judged by--and for--her age, and for those who aren't aware of it, she has become, quite simply, a great violinist. These two concerti--such favorites that each is represented by almost two dozen available recordings--are wonderfully played here. The gorgeous opening melody of the Mendelssohn sets the tone; the sweetness Midori gets from her violin is instantly captivating. The middle movement avoids sentimentality while remaining songful and the finale is light and airy, with the bow seemingly barely touching the strings. The Bruch opens with just the right dark, introverted mystery (such a different mood from the end of the Mendelssohn that you may want to pause a moment before beginning it!), the central Adagio is sheer poetry and the finale brilliantly sparkling without a hint of "look-at-me" arrogance. The live recordings are vivid and the audience clearly brings out the best in both soloist and orchestra, all under the caring, balanced eye of Mariss Jansons. This is now the preferred versions of these concerti on discs. --Robert LevineHigh praise. Check it out!
>>124364911Well you weren't doing that. And it's completely irrelevant to his skills as a conductor
Everytime I listen to Scriabin, I start masturbating maniacally, is there a solution to this?
>>124364900No, I'm listening to the Ashkenazy one. I meant is the A major Fugue considered the best?
Mmmmm! I love Brahms! I love being a constipated cuckold! I love to watch fat women get fucked by Aryan Wagnerites and then discarded for being fat!! ! I love to say things like "One who reads lives many more lives than one who does not" as a cope for my smelly academicism! When my fat wife lets me touch I cockle like a gay bonobo and say "Hnnnggg! Death by snu-snu!!"
Early Bernstein (late 50s early 60s) had astoundingly poor control over the NYPO. His famous Rite of Spring recording is the perfect example of this, tempos all over the place and the orchestra sounds like its sight reading. For an example of what that piece should sound like with a top tier orchestra and a disciplined conductor listen to Boulez’s first one with Cleveland.Around the mid 60s he fixes his slop issue, but his conducting is still really nothing special. People like to tout his first Mahler 7 as “the way the piece should go” but his handling of the Scherzo lacks nuance and subtlety, and his Rondo-Finale completely fails to grasp the form of the movement. This just focuses one piece but it epitomizes his conducting as a whole; no nuance and no understanding of form.Then you get his late period where he gets high off his own jewish farts and begins to overblow the everliving shit out of anything remotely emotional in a piece. His second Mahler 6 with the WPO is one of the worst examples of this, especially in the first movement and the andante. The only consolation in this is that he’s not the only one that does it for this piece (Tennstedt’s recording is arguably even worse about it), but he does it at basically every given opportunity which is insufferable.In general Bernstein is at his best a mediocre conductor and at his worst a sloppy drooling mess. The problem is that he’s considered to be some sort of amazing conductor by hack critics like Hurwitz and the general public who think that showmanship + talking your ass off in university lectures = good conductor. He’s really not and shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone who considers themselves familiar with classical music.
>>124364827>>124364840websters 1913 dictionary defines immature as crude, unfinished. to this point i'd agree that sister was being immature, but not for the reasons both of you suggest. the post presumes too much. for instance, how would we know if bernstein, who is a gay jew, liked to get fucked, fuck ass, or eat cum. we can say for certain, since he is a gay jew, that he liked to do atleast one of those things, but all of them? maybe...either way, it is unfinished, so as to say not completely fleshed out. >>124364986are you arguing that an individuals disposition has no impact on the things they take part in?
>>124364995Oh. Well, it consistently has the most plays out of all of them on most if not all recordings, so probably. It's quite lovely, stunningly gorgeous, and immediately gratifying and scintillating. So many of them are though:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfRVtMW1olo&list=OLAK5uy_mfu3MVlN6p9WIK5eigJDDHOPp6DKE5GUY&index=28In other words, I'm not sure if there are any individual ones which have their own standout reputation.
>>124364938the level of detail is, in fact, the point being made itself. >>124364960LMFAOOOOOOOO>>124364986it's in fact very relevant to his skills as a child molester and as a conductor.
>>124365076I'm not asking you to fuck him anon, just to listen to music they made or not. And yeah their sex life had no relevance to their conducting
>>124365104Bernstein's Eroica is good. Why are you being an ass?
>>124365117it may have to do with the fact that it's terrible and totally ignores all of beethoven's tempo markings because bernstein is a faggot retard who thinks he's smarter than beethoven
>>124365124Choice of tempo is arbitrary and pretty subjective.
Schumannhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fl8intRPwc
>>124365138not really, there are metronome markings in the score. that's about as objective as it gets.
>>124365112an individuals sex life absolutely impacts their personality. how is this even argued against?
>>124365149Obviously anon meant flexible as to what will bring out the best performance of the music.
>>124365188>the best performance of the music is the one that ignores the explicit directions in the scoreLOL
>>124365196It can, sure, as the explicit directions aren't the only way to get something good out of the music.
>>124365180No it doesn't. They're waving a stick around and telling musicians how to play it's completely irrelevant.
>>124365149And you can choose to ignore them if you think it works. That's why it's called an interpretation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_VampyrI'm confused. Wikipedia says Karl Bohm recorded Marschner's Der Vampyr with the VPO on DG. I can't find anything anywhere suggesting said recording actually exists though.
>>124365214>>124365237and while you're at it, why not rewrite the opening string parts for brass, change the key of the piece to G# minor, and replace the main theme of the first movement with the entirety schoenberg's op. 24 serenade? since beethoven's directions apparently don't matter anymore.
The DG marketing staff has found this general.
>>124365249Just because some things are flexible and can be handled at the conductor's discretion, such as tempo and dynamics, doesn't mean even thing ought to be.
>>124365249The notes itself should remain as it is. Tempo and dynamics can be and always are interpreted differently, so people can choose their favorite recording and enjoy the music to its fullest.
>>124365249>>124365311doesn't mean everything ought to be*
>>124365225so a crazed savage that is into bdsm and really weird shit, someone who masturbates three times a day, etc. is not going to behave differently than someone who has sex with his wife in missionary position once a week. glad we sorted that out. as for how it impacts his conducting, it would require far too much nuance to deduce, but rest assured, under your assumptions, it has little to no significance on his ability. that aside, having a gay jew as the head and face of a recording has lasting impact whether you want to acknowledge it or not. institutions, both public and private, will take advantage of that.
>>124365311>>124365323>>124365326sorry, a performance direction is a performance direction. you don't get to arbitrarily choose what is acceptable to modify and what isn't.
>>124365282and they start shitting albums with sisteposter phrases
>>124365282Calm down, schizosister.
>>124365336I'm not arguing about their behaviour, just conducting and yeah it has no effect.
New>>124365378>>124365378>>124365378
>>124365362t. DG employee
>>124365249Those are massively different changes and not at all comparable to a simple change of tempo.
>>124365371the way he conducts is part of his behavior. why are you separating the two? are you retarded?
>>124365401not really, no. they're all directions in the score which you are deliberately choosing to disrespect.
>>124365343It's not arbitrary because a) they're two different categories of decisions and changes, and more importantly, b) the conductor felt the other changes would improve the performance, simple as that.
>>124365397As lucky as I would be to work for such a wonderful and prestigious company as Deutsche Grammophon, I'm afraid you're boxing at shadows, sister.
>>124365438tempo and dynamics are completely different categories from each other, yes. what makes them exclusively malleable while the notes and articulations in the score are immutable? >the conductor felt the other changes would improve the performanceand i feel like replacing the main theme of the eroica with schoenberg's op. 24 serenade would improve the performance. so now what?
>>124365460>and i feel like replacing the main theme of the eroica with schoenberg's op. 24 serenade would improve the performance. so now what?Now it's up to the concert audience, executives at the labels, music critics, and classical recording consumers to decide whether they agree with you, I suppose. And I still maintain that's an entirely different league of modification than tempo and dynamics, aka 'approach' to the notes and music, as it's not the notes and music itself.
