Milhaud editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious thread: >>124350549
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Which performance of Debussy's Etudes sounds better to you guys:Pollinihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOJtV7RN7NI&list=OLAK5uy_n_Np4mHsaio1pfVNaTXdfaoiFaf5Z1AQo&index=2vs.Rogehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH2AwTJtt2g&list=OLAK5uy_khejIzwZaMPztIlUUoGjEEjOtlo-xPXP8&index=1To my ears, Pollini's is faster, concrete, and analytical, whereas Roge's is slower, diffusive, and spiritual. Both are of course valid and I'll be giving both an in-depth listen, I'm simply curious as to what you guys think.
>>124365343Thankfully some conductors think otherwise.
>>124365415yes, there are lots of mentally retarded conductors, that goes without saying.
>>124365414Clearly the one provided on the Deutsche Grammophon™ label. Their innovation in clarity and sound staging is unparalleled.
>>124365414Is it because I'm dumb and uninformed or is this 'review' on that recording utter nonsense (pic)?
>>124365404I don't know how many more ways I can this. The sex life of a dead conductor has no impact on the musical choices they made in conducting. You don't listen to Karajan and say "Ah yes I can hear his hetrosexuality coming through in the woodwind section" >>124365425Yes really, yes. It's a much, much, much smaller change than randomly inserting an alien piece written 100 years later, you're being ridiculous. >>124365343What are you going to do about it if they do?>>124365439>Everyone who disagrees with me on anything is le retarded!
brahms' piano concertos ruined almost all other piano concertos for me :(
>>124365414Roge well at least for that etude
>>124365547>Now it's up to the concert audience, executives at the labels, music critics, and classical recording consumers to decide whether they agree with younot my problem, i can perform the eroica however i wish according to you. >And I still maintain that's an entirely different league of modification than tempo and dynamicsbecause you are musically illiterate and have never read a score in your life. >>124365564>Yes really, yes. It's a much, much, much smaller change than randomly inserting an alien piece written 100 years laternot really, you're still disrespecting the directions in the score either way. >What are you going to do about it if they do?call them retarded. LOL. >>Everyone who disagrees with me on anything is le retarded!correct, especially the ones delusional enough to think they're smarter than beethoven.
>>124365604>not my problem, i can perform the eroica however i wish according to you.Yes, you can, duh. Doesn't mean it'll be good.>because you are musically illiterate and have never read a score in your life.tru. Regardless, approach to playing the notes is a distinct category from the notes themselves.
>>124365620>Regardless, approach to playing the notes is a distinct category from the notes themselves.then we should delete all slur markings from the piece and play every single note staccato, which according to you is completely permissible.
>>124365633You can do whatever you want. Still doesn't mean it's a good decision and one that will be accepted.
>>124365564the sexual proclivities of an individual does not impact the attitudes, and thus behavior, of the disciplines they are part of. someone put a disconnect in your brain to make you believe that, and if i were you, i'd make it a top priority to find out who or what was responsible.
>>124365657>Still doesn't mean it's a good decisionit's an obviously retarded decision to anyone who is a musician, and the same applies to disregarding explicit metronome and dynamic markings in a score.
>>124365604>call them retarded. LOL.anonymously online, where you know they won't hear it. Luckily it's not up to you though. > the ones delusional enough to think they're smarter than beethoven.It's actually not a question of intelligence
>>124365414Pollini's live performance of these are genuinely insane. Waaay better than his DG one
>>124365681>it's an obviously retarded decision to anyone who is a musicianYes, because it'll sound bad and ridiculous. The same doesn't necessarily apply to the other changes, although it can if it doesn't sound good, as it's obvious there are many who enjoy it that way. Of course, some don't, which is why there is variety in recordings, interpretations, and performances.
>>124365701>where you know they won't hear it.well of course bernstein won't hear me, he's too busy burning in hell for being a child molesting faggot. >Luckily it's not up to you though.it's up to me to call them retarded, yes. >It's actually not a question of intelligenceit really is, only a retarded fool could be so arrogant.
>>124365658Eww we can't let gay conductor conduct us! He'll probably get his gayness all over the timpanies!
>>124365719>it's up to me to call them retarded, yes.Ineffectually, online, where only the 4 other people in this general can hear you
>>124365717>The same doesn't necessarily apply to the other changesexcept it does. no one wants to hear all 4 movements of the eroica played fortissimo without a single change in dynamics. >as it's obvious there are many who enjoy it that wayyes, lots of people are mentally retarded. nothing new there.
>>124365745Again, there are obviously decisions which can make the music sound worse, in the same way there are decisions, which deviate from the composer's own markings and vision, which can make the music sound better.
>>124365742All 4 of my friends :D
>>124365730it does have that effect. when the face or head of a product is of a certain disposition than it naturally garners support for that disposition. it becomes the norm as opposed to a wild card or an unwanted thing. moreover, when that product is widely distributed and advertised, public opinion sways in favor of that disposition. im glad it's finally got to you.
/classical/ is an LGBTQ+ ally
now playingstart of Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 2 in G Minor, Op. 16 (1923 version)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqr7HESJYKk&list=OLAK5uy_l85lGcFUYopBkg_Q9PEynwXwQCMWBTFqY&index=2start of Piano Sonata No. 2 in D Minor, Op. 14https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjDzNzSzcg&list=OLAK5uy_l85lGcFUYopBkg_Q9PEynwXwQCMWBTFqY&index=6start of Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Major, Op. 26https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulR4jujcuwc&list=OLAK5uy_l85lGcFUYopBkg_Q9PEynwXwQCMWBTFqY&index=9https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l85lGcFUYopBkg_Q9PEynwXwQCMWBTFqY
2 hours of doggystyle and going again . Wang was fukin Yuja
Lilburnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWBUZDZ9t-o&list=OLAK5uy_m61nnVDjhruGW1aGWdG2R_ycDPVkw6YHc
>>1243657424 other people, 1 of which is a piss label (a UMG subsidiary) shill who gets irrationally mad when you make fun of the piss label or a piss label “artist” LMFAO>>124365758>Again, there are obviously decisions which can make the music sound worsesuch as disregarding the directions in the score, not to be confused with ignoring the composer’s “vision” which refers to elements of performance not contained within the score like use of vibrato or string ensemble size.
"Want a dozen reasons why Bruckner gets no more than three stars?Johannes OckeghemJosquin DeprezAntoine BrumelPierre de la RueCostanzo FestaAlexander AgricolaJacob ObrechtHeinrich IsaacLudwig SenflCipriano da RoreOrlando di LassoTomas Luis VictoriaShoelaces were not in fashion in the Renaissance. Had they been, Bruckner would have been lucky to tie any of those composers' laces. Perhaps, however, one should look to Bruckner's close contemporaries for less invidious comparisons. Would you rank this mass in the same league with Brahms's German Requiem or Janacek's Miss Glagolitica? No way! Bruckner's music is all clouds, no rain."Brutal.
>>124365906bruckner’s music has almost nothing in common with renaissance polyphony and his masses are accepted to be early works and not among his strongest output, but sure.
>>124365846Good stuff, thanks. Will check out the rest of his symphonies and orchestral works.
>>124365906Well, I don't like Bruckner much. He's too long in arriving and too long in departing.
>>124365906Webern is the real Anton.
>>124365955that’s the fault of the conductors who take too long in playing his music
Steve Reich-Different Trainshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_2PwYmmbXI&ab_channel=SohanKaliraiMight be one of my favourite pieces
>>124366010my condolences
>>124365875Well, if you think the changes make the music worse, then that's its own thing. Some people find those deviations can improve or at least be of equal quality so find it acceptable. It's as simple as that. Now, if you're the kind of purist who both thinks that those deviations can improve the music and yet remain unacceptable out of principle, now that I can really respect. Otherwise it's just a difference of taste, and while I think trying to close off any performance decisions outside of the composer's own markings is merely an attempt at privileging and further justifying that preference, it doesn't really matter, as I've said many times by now, all that does is what works.
>In fact, he had a great admiration for some of the Romantic composers with whom one would have thought he had little in common. I had gone through a period of adulation of Wagner in my school days, but by this time was undergoing the inevitable reaction against him; but when I ventured to criticize Wagner, Webern soundly berated me. 'Wagner was a great composer,' he said, 'and you cannot possibly say that you do not like him.' Similarly, he greatly admired Bruckner, and we sometimes played his symphonies together as piano duets, Webern remarking on one occasion in the slow movement of the Seventh Symphony: 'Could your Elgar write an arch of melody like that?'
>>124366014>Some people find those deviations can improve or at least be of equal quality so find it acceptable.yes, i'm well aware of the large number of mentally retarded people that exist in the world. >Now, if you're the kind of purist who both thinks that those deviations can improve the music and yet remain unacceptable out of principleno, they simply sound worse and they are unacceptable both because they sound worse and because they are deliberately ignoring beethoven's metronome markings. >all that does is what works.and ignoring beethoven's metronome markings doesn't work, because none of the dimwits who do are smarter than beethoven like they presume.
>>124366010Except for Karlheinz, Classical ended with the war. It's time to move on to Jazz and eventually more conceptual electronic subgenres after that.
>>124366049So you think there are no instances in which Beethoven's markings can be deviated from and the music improved? Your taste perfectly aligns with Beethoven's vision, great. Listen to the recordings you prefer and the rest of us will listen to the ones we prefer, whether it has fidelity to the score or not.
>>124366042the SVS were all conservative romantics. few understand this.
>>124365906Damn, that's a lot of composers to explore.>>124365955It's just talking about his longer choral music.
I am going to lock myself in the attic and masturbate every quarter of the hour with Scriabin playing in the background.
>>124366078>and the rest of us will listen to the ones we prefer, whether it has fidelity to the score or not.and i will continue to laugh at you for listening to shitty unfaithful recordings of beethoven.
>>124366138Happy to be of comedic service.
>>124366012HAHAHAHa!That's a good one!
now playing, part 2 of Mendelssohn's Elias, Op. 70https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwuhXTjuCk&list=OLAK5uy_lSk8k1vWqedrnMOwAMdfQphQIHtz3VQDg&index=26the legacy of Bach's and Handel's choral genius expressed in the romantic era
>>124366191actually I have to share the preceding movement, the finale of the first part because it's so fuckin' good:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qxTbNP4lms&list=OLAK5uy_lSk8k1vWqedrnMOwAMdfQphQIHtz3VQDg&index=25even if you only listen to that, I'll be happy.
>>124365378Benjamin Goddard Etudes op 149 Book 4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bhrst7SJ4w&ab_channel=AzurNever heard these before so they may be God awful, who knows? Not me
>>124365378Milhouse edition
Is Keith Jarrett a good pianist? About to check out pic and his Bach French Suites. I also see his Shostakovich 24 Preludes and Fugues pop up in my recommendations pretty often.playlist for pic:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01lsXhqpyA&list=OLAK5uy_kZZd5VKrljr3ICiy4xNnbZYGU0rDBnkps&index=1
>>124366587No
>>124366653Ah. Guess I'll continue exploring Gavrilov's and Ashkenazy's Bach French Suites, theirs are sounding really good to me right now. Must be the romantic, Russian touch.
>>124365378Can anyone recommend books about classical style improvisation?
>>124366587>>124366673jazz tourist pianist
Bach had severe autism which unabled him to advance beyond German baroque form, His music isn't very good, because the nature of his music is deception. Like a good autist he covers it up with complex techniques that plens immediately gravitate toward "liek omgerr Counterpoint weaving like true autist, oh my gad this fugue so complex ele"Bach had no artistic depth nor any musical talent, he is in some ways like his successor Mozart. Music that is perfect in construction and theory, not in beauty and inspiration. People who like Bach are simply closet autists who have no idea what good Western Art music is.Bach never managed to compose anything of even relative worth. Rather than exploring new styles he preferred to jack off alone to the outdated style of ages past, in a manner very similar to modern "wrong generationers."His most famous keyboard work, the Goldberg Variations, was originally written to put an aristocrat to sleep. And, bearing in mind that it consists of 30 variations on not only the same theme but also the same fucking harmonic sequence, it has the very same effect on modern audiences.The Well-Tempered Clavier is garbage and taught Mozart and Beethoven bad habits that forever stunted their expertise in composition.The Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos, Orchestral Suites, Mass in B minor, Passions, and Musical Offering are plebeian trash written with mass appeal in mind.The Art of Fugue is utter dreck and the worst "meme classical" ever written. It's a load of worthless pedantic wankery which literally serves no purpose other than to demonstrate counterpoint. It's hilariously samey and repetitive, which makes sense since it inverts the same fucking melodies to create new counterpoints and does this over and over and over.
>>124366867So is it plebian trash written for mass appeal or is it only for autists?
>>124354356>schoenberg was a conservative.I think midwits are truly incapable of grasping this
>>124366878Both
>>124366867so did you fail your piano jury or something?
>>124365378daily reminder that atonality doesn't exist, and expressionism is just an extreme form of romanticism.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nelv_XZdj1I
>>124367006
>>124367006put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124367116Put YOUR trip back on
>>124367141don’t have one, pedo kraut.
>>124367155put it back on
>>124367164don’t have one, pedo kraut.
>>124367183Put it back on
>>124367187don’t have one, pedo kraut.
>>124367211You're fooling no one put it back on
>>124367226don’t have one, pedo kraut. stop cowering and put your trip back in
>>124367239Stop making excuses and put it back on
>>124367247don’t have one, pedo kraut. stop cowering and put your trip back on.
>>124367261i dont have one you're confused
>>124367323stop cowering and put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124367352i dont have one, you're delusional
>>124367213Beethoven marked the end of music
>>124366867We need a Goldberg Variations for the modern audience!
>>124367366we’ve all seen your tripcode, pedophile kraut. put it back on.
>>124367434There is a Youtuber who makes classical/baroque music I forget their name. You can kind of tell it's modern though not that I think that's a bad thing
the modern audience doesn't deserve good music
goldbug variations arranged for string trio, art of fug arranged for string quartet :)
>>124367513You reminded me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCaaJwyUOcY&ab_channel=TheRadMan
>>124367528If I were 16 again I'd be really into that, actually, not bad
>>124367470They must incorporate the pentatonic rock scale if it sounded modern
>>124367069https://vocaroo.com/1j3o0AE7eEoV
>i have lately purchased several recent recordings of the "goldberg", both to sample the variety of interpretations and to approach the complexity of this unique composition.>i come away with two observations: performance divides sharply into two schools, and the school determines the complexity and subtlety of the performance.>in one school are the "virtuoso" performances, always completed within 71 to 74 minutes (with all repeats), and uniformly characterized by absurdly fast tempi that combine a jabbing, popping staccato treatment of the slower voices with a flurrying blurrying execution of the faster voices, an appalling uniformity of instrumental timbre and touch, complete disregard for the tempo and dance implications of the time signatures and note durations of the original score, and (most of all) the fundamental imperative to impress with the agility, velocity and precision of the execution.>in all these things gavrilov conforms, and therefore provides just another run of the mill performance. true, there are variations where his approach is pleasing, but there are just as many others (no.29 in particular) where his approach is laughably unidiomatic and flashy. in many variations his puttering dexterity produces sounds that much resemble the working of a two cylinder engine.>all the virtuoso performances are basically imitations of the glenn gould solution to the "goldberg" challenge; if showmanship is your thing, then you may as well stay with the original, or at least adopt the murray perahia interpretation, which manages to be musical within the 74 minute virtuoso time limit.Okay, so what are some examples of the other, good type?
>>124367572put your trip back on, pedophile kraut
>>124367630I suppose I'll try out Olafsson's that someone else recommended the other day. One of the Amazon reviews calls it a 'musical life changing experience.' We shall see. If anyone wants to join me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIncslU6g&list=OLAK5uy_k2er6VZFwCAEa1zJPHWVY5vYAG8-TEM5w&index=1
>>124367654lol, lmao, rofl even
Das Lied von der Erde is the real 9th.
>>124367667not that the numbers mean anything, but sure
>>124367659How can you not after a review like this? The man's in love.
>>124367692I don't think I'd be able to resist laughing in someone's face if they described a recording/performance as "quantum in nature -- it was like the music was everything, everywhere, all the time" but it's admittedly compelling and effective in conveying awe.
>>124367572groovy
>>124367555Elad Hevron that's the guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHu3pRurzE8&ab_channel=TheEladHevronLegacyProject
>>124367654It is pretty excellent
>>124367808Yeah I'm really liking it so far. Granted I'm not a Goldberg Variations aficionado.
>>124367692that makes me not want to hear it even more
>>124357975>>124359029The Blomstedt/Gewandhaus cycle *does* adhere to the metronome markings.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjoKmW8CHKU&list=OLAK5uy_kaqFqUByp_CNFNtepboUe6DTxa0p0yztI&index=30
>>124367692As tempting as it is to take the piss out of this, it does sound like he had a profound experience listening to it which I guess I can't knock him for
>>124367936Exactly. We're all searching for that same experience.
now playingstart of Mozart: String Quartet No. 21 in D, K.575 "Prussian No. 1"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-v6_EOAuR4&list=OLAK5uy_lElmAO4wT56KXASPZyLCatMs_jifhWDec&index=76
>>124367897not quite, he’s about 5-10bpm too slow depending on movement. >>124367946not really, i’m looking for great interpretations of great music. i don’t give a shit about “quantum” performances.
>>124368226autism
>>124368226>not quite, he’s about 5-10bpm too slow depending on movement.Well, thanks for giving it a try, that's all I can ask.
Who is the most erotic composer?
>>124368243also, his orchestral sonority seriously sounds off, but that’s probably more to do with the gewandhaus than blomstedt himself. regardless, too many minor blemishes for it to be a reference cycle.
>>124368244>>124366126>>124364988
>>124368260thank you scriabincel
>>124368252Yeah the Dresden cycle has a much nicer sound to me but of course is far slower.
It's a shame that my choices for sets of Schumann's solo piano music are practically limited to Kempff or Pollini -- both great, don't get me wrong -- yet if I try to look up Chopin my browser momentarily lags from the sheer quantity of results. Why don't more people record Schumann, particularly a widespan of his piano pieces :(
>>124365403
>>124365580Explain
>>124368559
Whats the classical album or piece you listen the most variations of? Picrel for me.
>>124368244Unironically Wagner. I mean just listen to this wonderful aria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJqYzXQIT4YPeople will hate Wagner but don't let that distract you from the fact that they all wet their trousers when this played. Literally every pilgrim that journeyed through /classical/ admitted to jerking off to Wagner at some point in their life. I myself was an avid anti-wagnerian for years....but then it happened.....I heard "Lohengrin" for the "first" time in my entire life. I could not get up from my chair for the entirety of the opera, except for the part when he called for the swan....it was at that ecstatic moment I started undressing myself and then further masturbating. There was nothing material that was going to hold me back now, everything else became inferior and rudimentary, life itself became a struggle because I knew this "fleeting" moment of pure joy that I just experienced will never happen again.
Lets all just drop our copes and admit the irrefutable fact i.e. that we all drooled like a newborn infant during Götterdämmerung.
>>124368654>>124368686thanks sister
>>124368788you are welcome shlomosister
>>124368788Wagner drove you to insanity.
>>124368568In comparison all others feel lacking now, like they're incomplete and half-baked, and at best as if they were miniatures.
>>124368585>>124368559>>124365403Naxos couldn't afford an ad.
>>124368799>>124368848thanks wagnersisters
>Praised by The Washington Post for playing with "an easy warmth, drawing the orchestra after him like a halo around a candle flame,"writing about music is really just making shit up huhhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfcBjipYxQ&list=OLAK5uy_l8HA3XfBGgpZGif1V-ZTPTzropBABz5lM&index=1
>>124368952i couldn’t pick 2 more dysgenic people for a cover if i tried, jesus christ
you and your best friend>>124368952the guys your gfs tell you not to worry about:
Well, /classical/?
>>124369163buy an ad, faggot.
>>124369163human thumb
>>124369336click bait grifters aren't human, sweetie.
>>124369002racist
Favorite recording(s) of Chopin's Etudes?
For me, it's Rostropovich.
>>124365414why do jews constantly steal classicalholy fucking christ i hate it
feels like a Faure and Durufle Requiem night, Op 48 and Op 9 respectively
>>124371113durufle’s requiem is so fucking shit
>>124371148I like it a lot. It's colorful.
>>124371172colorful like an expletive, maybe.
>>124371047once you see it you can't unsee it. The only good Jews in classical music are those who either have European blood or have sincerely converted away from Judaism.
Entering my Bach and Mozart phase. A lot of their music is hitting the right spot in a way it hasn't before and very little from others is doing so at the moment.
>>124371741Bsach could fugue well, mozart was bad at fugging
>>124370276Rubinstein of course. Maybe Pollini, Cortot, Lugansky. Depends on taste.
>>124371047How are Jews stealing classical music?
>>124371918Rubinstein is a gay jew.
>>124371918I haven't heard Lugansky's Chopin, will check his out, thanks.
>>124372151...and plays Chopin well. There, finished what you had in mind.
Barenboi Beethoven sonata 30https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=obDlCfQnF6A&pp=ygUVYmVldGhvdmVuIDMwdGggc29uYXRh
>>124372164Nah
>>124372246Then who the hell does? Tell me Nocturne op.48 no.1 that is better than Rubin's, go ahead. I would be delighted to hear even better recording of that masterpiece.
Mozart Symphony 31 Paris https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XxmubwUwU6s&pp=ygUSbW96YXJ0IDMxIHN5bXBob255I guess you’re not supposed to like this one
Nighttime, which means it's Scriabin time :)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClZ21jO0e7A&list=OLAK5uy_n-DRos36zZydaTNVxBsWaCXuTAfGIaGVo&index=18
Scriabin was a bad man
finally found a quality performance of Prokofiev's Symphony-Concerto/Sinfonia Concertante, Op. 125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiU8iFB3S9k&list=OLAK5uy_kkB2PEze-nMWwEvNa8qUgeEiWLKZRalGg&index=1
The fugue in Hammerklavier Mov. 1 is so addictive. Anyone who says Beethoven was a bad melodist is objectively wrong.
Any string quartets that have the constant independent movement of schoenberg's but like, axtually good?
>>124372654Schoenberg is good but if you're after something less chromatic and dissonant I suggest Reger's five string quartets.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIcv3N6FEsk&t=1097
Imagine there’s no Wagner It’s easy if you try
>>124372606I’d say the second movement of Pathetique, the second of 32, the first and second of 30 and his opening to the fifth symphony and ode to joy are all good examples
>>124372766The Beatles were a Tavistock psyop and their songs are mediocre.
>Beethoven was, of course, aware of the dangerous constraint imposed by the metronome. On the manuscript of his song "Nord oder Süd" he wrote:>100 according to Mälzel, but this must be considered applicable only to the first bars, for sentiment also has its tempo and cannot be completely expressed by this number
>>124372777based and checked.
There is no aspect of Beethoven in which you can say he was a great melodist, harmonist, contrapuntist, a tone painter, or orchestrater, if you take any of these elements separately, there's nobody"."He spent his whole life trying to write a good fugue, and he himself, admitted he never succeeded".."As far as his orchestration is concerned, it's bad"."You can't really say he's a great melodist".."The harmonies, any child could write".Lenny Bernstein on Beethoven
>>124372777Meds
>>124372792>gay jewopinion ignored.
>>124372796fuck MI6, fuck five eyes, and fuck the anglosphere deep state.
>>124372798Textbook ad hominem
>>124372808sorry, I don't listen to the opinions of retarded gay jews.find someone who pretends to care.
Thoughts on the pianist Zhu Xiao-Mei? Looking for a new Art of Fugue piano recording to try and she was one of the first results. Seems she's recorded just about everything of Bach's too, which is nice if she's good.
>>124372837quite goodhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t_hkp09qOE
>>124372851Cool, thanks, will give hers a listen then. I also added Schaghajegh Nosrati's if you're familiar, listening to it now and it's nice so far; slow, sensitive approach which is nice for Bach occasionally.
>Beethoven was not always sure of the tempo of his music. His change of the first movement of Symphony no. 9 from 112 to the quarter to 88 is an indication of how uncertain his decision might be.>Beethoven's metronome marks have not come down to us without a few mistakes. The misprint of the trio (Presto) of the scherzo of Symphony no. 9 as 116 to the half note instead of the whole note was perceived very early. >The most impossible indication in the symphonies is that of the finale in 2/4 of the Symphony no. 4 in B flat major, in which the Allegro ma non troppo is given as 80 to the half note. [...] This makes for an absurd presto at 160 to the quarter, the bassoon passages are literally unplayable, and the tempo is clearly not "ma non troppo". It is most likely that 80 is a simple misprint for 60.
for me, it's Beethoven's Archduke Trio
>>124372819To be fair those quotes are a little bit out of context https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OuYY1gV8jhU&t=475s&pp=2AHbA5ACAQ%3D%3D
>>124372866>something something cocks in and around orifices.
>>124372777The Beatles are the Mozart of pop music and their haters are equally ignorant and stupid.
>>124372888Funny you chose not to respond to Beethoven's own quote >>124372783
>>124372884people here who make posts relating to Bernstein should be permabanned.
now playingstart of Prokofiev: Violin Sonata No. 1 in F Minor, Op. 80https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bDBb6SIOZ4&list=OLAK5uy_k2kCa93z0KLxLnDsznlHxxw_dEKEyHgIc&index=1>Hyperion is delighted to present a special collaboration already an extraordinary force on the concert platform in its first appearance on record. Alina Ibragimova and Steven Osborne are musicians of searing, uncompromising intelligence and intense feeling. In his works for the violin, Prokofiev produced some of his most personal and expressive music. Both of his Violin Sonatas were written for David Oistrakh. The first was begun against the backdrop of Stalin's Great Terror, and one senses that he drew his inspiration from the uncharacteristically dark wells of fear, despair and bereavement which were the lot of Prokofiev and his contemporaries. The Violin Sonata No.2 is of a very different character generally sunny and carefree, though still with occasional fleeting shadows. In its original form it was a Flute Sonata, Op 94, which Prokofiev had completed in 1943. At David Oistrakh's suggestion and with his assistance, Prokofiev transcribed the work.
>>124372889Mozart would have called them degenerate prostitutes of the British deep state.
>>124372902Meds
>>124372909just stating facts, man.
>>124372912No
>>124372944glow brighter.
Wagner had a gay son. Wagner wrote an essay about Sparta which talks about how great it was they were all gay for each other.
>[...] with his usual common sense regarding his craft, [Beethoven] also understood the limitations of metronome markings and tempered his initial enthusiasm. There are reports that in his performances he tended to speed up in crescendos, slow down in soft passages, and revert to the main tempo at structurally important points. He wrote on a manuscript, "100 according to Mälzel, but this must be considered applicable only to the first bars, for sentiment also has its tempo and cannot be completely expressed by this number." So in performance he believed in a nuanced, flexible tempo [...] As Beethoven acknowledged, tempo is a matter of a performer's sensibility and musucality. One cannot put a metronome mark on feelings - or on the acoustics of every room.
>>124372999didn't read. fuck off.
>>124373033I would love to see you refute Beethoven's own statement on one of his metronome markings lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_ndWt0Hjohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO5cd8UGsqsI think I've settled on this as my Canon and Gigue recording.>>124372899I like Ibragimova's playing. Prokofiev seems like a good match for her.
When do Beethoven's chamber pieces go from good to masterpieces?
>>124373056Easy: opus 47.
Symphony 5 movement 2 is so fucking good lads
>>124372783>>124372866Wagner vindicated.>And if I may speak from my very own experience: I gave eloquent tempo markings to my early operas, even providing them with metronome markings that were unerringly exact (or so I believed). Whenever I heard a performance at a ludicrous tempo (of my Tannhäuser, for example), those in charge defended themselves every time against my objections by saying that they had followed my metronome markings in the most conscientious way possible. I then realized that applying math to music is an uncertain business. So from then on, I both omitted all metronome indications and also denoted the main tempo only by means of very general markings.
>>124372984Wagner was possibly Jewish as well
The Bard of Bacchus
>>124373428Right now listening to https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgMrWwtyxvM&pp=ygUkc29uYXRhIDEgc2NyaWFiaW4gYnVya2FyZCBzY2hsaWVzbWFu
>>124373415kill yourself immediately.
>>124373491It’s the truth
>>124373503I will find you and I will crack your skull open with a golf club.
>>124373517Illegal post
Is there any reason to go with anything other than Dorati for 1812?
>>124373234Not really since Wagner didn't even try to get the first few bars correct
What's your favorite non-piano Mozart concerto?
>>124372783>>124372999no one subscribes to the idea that the entire adagio of the 9th must be taken at precisely 60bpm from start to finish, but beginning at 40bpm as most conductors do is obviously wrong from the outset.>>124372866>>124373234>noooooo beethoven was wrong and i’m right! i’m smarter than beethoven!classic lol
>>124374005probably his Clarinet Concertohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7INWKrqY4g
Help! HELP! My ears are cumming!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkfgFuCUe8w
>>124372999Any good tempo rubato technique will more or less average out to an appropriate mean, in this case the tempo established by Beethoven. Ignoring it entirely because Beethoven approved of interpretive freedom is to ignore the intended character of the piece.
Day 2 of listening to Hammerklavier almost non-stop>>124374423I JUST listened to Brahms' violin concerto, except Hahn.
Dmitri Shostakovich - Cello Concerto No. 1https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i6rU9AYzCws&pp=ygUdc2hvc3Rha292aWNoIGNlbGxvIGNvbmNlcnRvIDE%3D
>>124374224not harder to be smarter than Beethoven. Like most musicians, he was good specifically with music and not much else in life
>>124374606and yet you still presume that you know better than he does in music, LOL
>>124374423the earholes connect to the brain through the use of tunnels. it is the here toward the inner end of the hole where you find the organ responsible for the sensations felt while listneing to brahms violin concerto, not ear as it only acts as a conduit of sound.
W. is for Wim Winters
>>124374740your favorite lolcow named wim is wim winters. my favorite lolcow named wim is whatismusic123. we are not the same.
>>124374740He actually played a great Moonlight Sonata. Slow and soft with feeling. Perfect.
>>124374909I liked his pathetique on Clavichord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdb6ViEMTDMPerfect Tempo. I myself play it very slowly. Moonlight is only perfect on slow tempos.
>>124374909>>124374929bait is supposed to believable
More like Win Winters, because he's always winning.
>>124365984I like Webern but better than Brumel? Insane.
>>124374938Silence fool
>>124374956bait is supposed to believable
>>124374929more like Autistic Sound
>>124374985See>>124374956
>>124374929Nice meme.Who plays a non-shit Moonlight Sonata though?
>>124375008see >>124374985
>>124375016>Who plays a non-shit Moonlight Sonata though?almost everyone
>>124375043There's usually some reference though, like Brendel for Fur Elise.
>>124375057>brendel>non-shitLOL
>>124375023No it isn’t, it’s meant to get a response. Now be silent, fool >>124375057Win is the refer
>>124375066yeah, brendel is such a snooze that even a wimtard would recognize how much he sucks. >>124375067bait is supposed to believable
>>124375086No.
>>124375096bait is supposed to believable
>>124375086>brendel is such a snoozeReference recordings don't have to be arbitrarily emotive or "interesting" for the sake of it. The Brendel has come out ahead essentailly every time the matter has ever been surveryed on.
>>124374929Unironically though the first movement is great at that tempo. But it falls apart at the latter two
>>124375109Nope it’s meant to illicit a response
>>124375057https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoP4lK1drrA
>>124375111>reference recordings don't have to be good!lmfao>The Brendel has come out ahead essentailly every time the matter has ever been surveryed on.in a survey done by retards, maybe. >>124375126and in order for it to do that it has to be believable, newfag sister. >>124375135thanks gould ghoul
>>124375146Here you go. This is more your speed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s71I_EWJk7I
>>124375146Nope not necessarily it simply has to invite a response.
>>124375152ironically, the wimtards and the gould ghouls have a pretty significant overlaphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqPNoz00-jUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNR9viA99OYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsIJduLlMf>>124375155worry not, both lang lang and brendel can suck cock at the same time. >>124375163and in order for it to do that it has to be believable, newfag sister.
>>124375177No not necessarily. If you weren’t such a drooling terminally online autist you’d maybe understand that
>>124375185sorry newfag sister, but bait has to be believable in order to invite sincere responses. if you weren't such a drooling terminally new faggot you'd maybe understand that.
>>124375195thanks wimtarded gould ghoul
>>124375177I'd ask for your preferred take on Fur Elise, but since you're a Wimsister, I already know the issue is simply that you are retarded.
>>124375208thanks illiterate sister
The perfect Fur Elise -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4_7LMrtUNYThe perfect Moonlight Sonata -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFtC7JFPQworClaudio. Although I prefer Lortie.
>>124375221thank you wimsister
>>124375196>Hurr durr I’ll just repeat what he said but twisted around You are literally a spastic who probably went to a special needs school And no it only needs to be disagreeable enough that certain people feel the need to respond. Most bait isn’t believable but people reply anyway It’s all irrelevant since that person wasn’t anyway
>>124375235how embarrassing, wagnersister>>124375236thanks illiterate sister>>124375245you are literally a newfag who probably joined this website in 2016and no it has to be believable in order to invite sincere response. most of your bait isn't which is why you only get troll responses. it's all irrelevant because you will never post believable bait anyways.
Men can't play Für Elise properly. It can only be played by a woman.
>>124375260Thank you wimsister.
>>124375260I’ve never posted any bait special needs sister. I’m just pointing out you’re a mongoloid
>>124375285thanks illiterate sister>>124375286thanks seething newfag sister
>>124375135only one worse than Wim
i wish i had more oboe in my library
>>124375302Thank you window licking sister
Gould is the condom of classical.
>>124375320it's just not a very popular solo instrument; what can you expect when it sounds like a honking goose half the time and has a dynamic range of mp to mf? >>124375328thanks seething newfag sister
>>124375339You’re not a very a popular poster what can you expect when you sound like a honking retard?
>>124375302Thank you still-hasn't-posted-a-version wimsister.
>>124375352swing and a miss, seething sister>>124375353thanks seething newfag sister
>>124375379Pathetic dodge, wimsister.
>>124375379Kek no that was a home run. And you say that but this whole ‘sister’ but and obsession with trannies is pure nu- internet, you give yourself away as a zoomer by doing so
>>124375390thanks seething illiterate sister
>>124375404Thanks deflecting wimsister.
>>124375401swing and a miss, seething schizo sister, maybe try dilating on >>>/lgbt/ instead? >>124375413thanks seething illiterate sister
>>124375414Thank you, Wimsister.
>>124375419thanks seething illiterate sister, hope you find a more inconsequential piece of music to get your panties in a bunch about next time.
>>124375427Thank you, wimsister. I hope next time if you are going to autistically shitpost over an inconsequential piece of music you can at least produce a version you stand behind.
>>124375443if you haven't figured it out yet, illiterate sister (and why would you? you're illiterate), i don't give a shit about ditties for women and children. i simply enjoy shitting on the world's least interesting pianist at every given opportunity.
>>124375453Thank you, Wimsister. You've truly given us all something to think about.
>>124375463no worries seething illiterate sister, enjoy! find me a worse pianist to make fun of next time you come around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqnKwesvSGQ
>>124375560speaking of a worse pianist!
>>124375567https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpMdr9nBJc0Try this instead
>>124375414Cringeworthy post my guy
>>124375577much better than brendel and arrau
>>124375567Arrau raped your mind.
>>124375596thanks my heckin chungus bucko buckaroo sister, maybe try reddit instead? >>124375605not quite, he raped my ears with his awful playing.
>>124375596>my guy
>>124375621please be nice to the newfag sister, she's still adjusting from her migration from reddit.
>>124375619Even more cringeworthy zoomer moron
>>124375644thanks my heckin chungus bucko buckaroo millennial sister, maybe try reddit instead?
Wagner has awoken me from my deep slumber.Wagner is the sole reason as to why humanity should persevere.Wagner is the reason good exists.Wagner was the one who invented leitmotifs.Wagner channeled drama into music.Wagner was the only person who broke Nietzsche like a clock.Wagner is the reason men should not be castrated.Wagner was the one that showed us the light.Wagner was the man that inspired Tolkien.Wagner influenced modern theatre and films.Wagner is the most powerful and majestic composer.Wagner created toilets.Wagner made Ludwig II insane.
Is there a better choice for Don Giovanni than Mitropoulos?
>mention the simplest Beethoven piece>thread implodesIt do be that way.
>>124375621I was using his own slang to get through to him but he wasn’t smart enough to pick up on it
>>124375664>Wagner created toilets.indeed
>>124375659Still cringing.
>>124375669Busch
>>124375676sorry millenial reddit sister, i don't speak redditese. perhaps try reddit instead? >>124375686thanks my heckin chungus bucko buckaroo millennial /r/cringester sister, maybe try reddit instead?
>>124375670He likes the late String Quartets. This is just an assumption.
>>124375718an assumption (and a correct one) that you are retarded, yes.
Who else failed no nut already and relapsed to Wagner?
>>124375694Lol consider getting a personality. I’ll take millennial part as a tacit admission on your part that you are in a fact a zoomer
Tchaikovsky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00873q5ynUY&list=OLAK5uy_n8RWlHOYLdtIlIVT4sp9T26q2Erhi0EUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSDUG4rtQFoGilels
>>124375738lol consider owning a home in your lifetime. i'll take the zoomer part as a tacit admission on your part that you are indeed a brokie millenial. >>124375749no, you're supposed to post bad recordings silly.
Sex.This is sex set to music.https://youtu.be/ZOQlG8YRxEQ
>>124375758You know the whole not owning a home applies to you too, more so retard
>>124375803>you have to be broke like me!nope, sorry LOL. enjoy being in rentoid debt forever brokie millenial.
>>124375758That’s a dog shit recording
>>124375814thanks gould ghoul
>>124375813Ah so you’re a zoomed nepo baby I got you
>>124375814Garbage opinion
>>124375758I'm sorry, Wimsister. Brendel simply IS good for Fur Elise because he lets the piece speak for itself and that is what Fur Elise should be allowed to do given its brevity and simplicity. He is shit for anything else though, since he was not a good pianist.I will search for who does Moonlight justice on my own since my ask here for a reference recording was as useful as hen-shit on a pump handle.
New>>124375848>>124375848>>124375848
>>124375832>w-why aren't you broke like me? you need to be broke like me because my boomer parents squandered all their wealth on end-of-life care and slot machines in vegas!LOL, certified millennial moment. >>124375840>lets the piece speak for itselfmeaningless statement, even MIDI playback would "let the piece speak for itself". either brendel's interpretation is good or it isn't, and it obviously isn't.
>>124375859Total swing and a miss zoomer baby. It's a real shame they didn't drown you at birth when they saw how retarded you are. Now this general is paying the price
>>124375859>even MIDI playback would "let the piece speak for itself"No it wouldn't because a sterile MIDI playback would not produce Beethoven's basic intent, which necessarily includes the human element. It's only a meaningless statement if you don't understand classical music recordings a products of the dueling identities of the composer (authorial intent), the piece itself, and the interpreter.
>>124375738>>124375758both of you should know by now that using the same noun within a sentence is never appropriate. i am speaking of the usage of part twice over in the same sentence. instead, it ought to have read, "i'll take the x part as a tacit admission that you are indeed (or, in fact) a x">>124375749sorry i prefer non jewish performers
>>124375875it's a real shame you'll never own a home and you will forever wageslave to afford your studio apartment's rent LOL>>124375878>No it wouldn't because a sterile MIDI playback would not produce Beethoven's basic intent,neither does brendel, who fails to reproduce dynamics to their fullest extent and whose phrasing seems to lack any sort of intelligence that could be considered "human". >classical music recordings a products of the dueling identities of the composer (authorial intent), the piece itself, and the interpreter.it is precisely because of this that "letting the piece speak for itself" is meaningless. pieces do not speak for themselves; they inherently require performers to speak on their behalf. implying that a performer is somehow removing themselves from the equation is simply ludicrous and an absurd excuse for bad pianism. >>124375911pills time
Brendel is too literal a performer to excel in Beethoven.
>>124375955brendel is too shit a performer to excel in any music.
The hardest question in life is figuring out what the sister poster "actually" likes.
>>124375995Sucking little boys balls
>>124375931>pieces do not speak for themselves; they inherently require performers to speak on their behalf.In the case of a given performance, this is true. Pieces have identities which are abstracted from particular performances though, and which are a produce of their musical content and the context and place they have in society's perception. Pachelbel's Canon for instance has an identity apart from both authorial intent and any given performance of it due to it's modern memeification from the 70s onward.>implying that a performer is somehow removing themselves from the equation is simply ludicrous and an absurd excuse for bad pianism. Not at all. Performers may choose to either insert more of their own identity into a piece (their emotional state and ideas, musical sensibilities, thoughts about the piece, ect) or insert less of these and perform the piece in a way that is more literal, less emotional, or otherwise fully keeping with the composer's intent or popular identity of the piece itself. I contend that for Fur Elise it is sufficient to do the latter.
>>124375967He has a nice recording of Schoenberg's piano concerto (and Bartok's 2nd) performed with Maderna
>>124376032thank you wagnersister, but you misread the question; he wasn't asking you what you liked to do in your free time.
>>124376052No' he was asking what the sister poster actually likes and I told him sucking little boys was what that person liked, cause they like that more than anything.Oh and some free advice just saying "NO U" isn't a very good comeback, don't try that in real life you'll embarrass yourself
>>124376050>Pieces have identities which are abstracted from particular performances though, and which are a produce of their musical content and the context and place they have in society's perception.irrelevant, i only care about whether or not the performance of the piece is good. i could not less about pop culture. >Performers may choose to either insert more of their own identity into a piece (their emotional state and ideas, musical sensibilities, thoughts about the piece, ect) or insert less of these rubbish. there is no such metric for "how much personality" performers insert into their music; the only thing that they have control over is whether or not they're fully aware of the control their personality exerts over their music or if they are unwittingly inserting it. >or otherwise fully keeping with the composer's intent or popular identity of the piece itself.there is no "fully keeping with the composer's intent", the composer died 200 years ago and lived in a culture so alien to anything from the past century that it is literally impossible to comprehend. brendel is simply a poor interpreter who lacks the requisite interpretive skills to bring the music to life. and again, pop culture is a shoddy fucking excuse for bad performance. >>124376051hard pass on both accounts>>124376108you seem confused, wagnersister. we're talking about what the sisterposter likes, not what you like to do in your free time. perhaps take your mind off pederasty for a second so you can focus on the question at hand.
>>124376130It's not merely "pop culture," but all culture. Though my idea here is probably too abstract to communicate well.>there is no such metric for "how much personality" performers insertIt both can be considered and is considered both in reviewing particular recordings and the range/repertoires of performers themselves. >the composer died 200 years ago and lived in a culture so alien to anything from the past century that it is literally impossible to comprehend.While this is false, it's a misdirection regardless. You certainly wouldn't abandon your argument here if Brendel were playing (poorly) the work of a living composer he personally knew. Regardless, you must understand the distinction between a performer inserting their musical identity into an interpretation and, say, a composer telling them exactly how to play it rendering them into a living player piano.Reply in the next thread if you are going to. I'm closing this one.
