Sister editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious thread: >>124365378
Rachmaninoff Cello ConcertoGOAThttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_npvvZjmvU1s58Uk8p-OB66dy-bMhGWKz0
>>124375947>Concertobruh. Sonata*.
What do you think of this part of a comment I saw?>As much as I love all of Beethoven's symphonies, I see them and his piano sonatas as a prelude to his final five String Quartets, the greatest masterpieces ever composed.
>>124375972An unforgiveable mistake
>>124375947gayest of all time, perhaps>>124375992while true that the late string quartets are the peak of beethoven's output, it's absurd to consider music from a completely different genre to be in any way related aside from in musical thought and concept.
>>124375992That's just a needlessly elaborate way of saying that he considers the quartets as the best works
>>124376147You should rest of the comment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWDIwsfgQnE&ab_channel=hr-Sinfonieorchester%E2%80%93FrankfurtRadioSymphony
>>124376217*see the rest of the comment
>>124375947I really like this cello sonata but anon you've got to listen to more music.
What's your favorite recording of Beethoven's Archduke trio?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyIGdqSH5aA&list=OLAK5uy_mBoyOJuhFUDZTen4wY6qyMtGq1MES25iM&index=1
https://youtu.be/ysBuO7qHdM4?t=11Objectively the best Moonlight Sonata.
>>124376249>It's not merely "pop culture," but all culture. again, not interested in sociological bullshit. i only care about great performances of great music (not that fur elise is a particularly great piece to begin with)>in reviewing particular recordings and the range/repertoires of performers themselves.that's a matter of synergy between their personality and the music and their interpretive skill, nothing to do with "how much" personality they're willingly (or unwillingly) inserting. >You certainly wouldn't abandon your argument here if Brendel were playing (poorly) the work of a living composer he personally knew.if brendel were playing the work of a composer he personally knew or even a work personally written for him, there would certainly be legitimate claims of authenticity, though whether or not the final performance of the piece is actually good would be totally irrelevant to this; a bad performance is a bad performance regardless of context. >Regardless, you must understand the distinction between a performer inserting their musical identity into an interpretationall performers necessarily insert their musical identity into their interpretations. it's part of their job. >and, say, a composer telling them exactly how to play it rendering them into a living player piano.doesn't exist. even a relationship as close as, say, schoenberg and steuermann still largely involves steuermann's own interpretation of schoenberg's music, regardless of it being written expressedly for steuermann. >>124376217i'm convinced now that the only reason anyone gives a single shit about the frankfurt symphony is because of their youtube channel. i've never heard them give a single compelling performance of anything under any conductor.
>>124376226sometimes we type ahead of the things we think which causes us to lose a word or two after hitting submit. that's normal. what isn't normal, however, is feeling the need to correct a sentence. it shows that the poster is conscious of his mistake, while being unconscious of the fact that anons the world over are capable of filling the gaps in-between words of incomplete sentences.
>>124376350Great game
>>124376041Insomniac comment not needed.>>124376248Why do you assume I don't?I also spend time learning theory, writing music exercises, playing piano
>>124376522loser comment not needed LOL
>>124376522I suppose I should have considered your zeal for posting the same few Rachmaninoff pieces and recordings might be motivated by your animus for sisteranon, so I retract what I said.
>>124376539Insomniacs should be locked up
>>124376569nothing needs to be done to losers because they lose regardless, so why bother? LMFAO
>>124376576Doesn't explain your insomniac outburst
>>124376389>not interested in sociological bullshit.It's all sociological bullshit with music. But it's fair to not want to get meta about things.>nothing to do with "how much" personality they're willingly (or unwillingly) inserting. I contend this is exactly an aspect of their range and interpretive skill. >though whether or not the final performance of the piece is actually good would be totally irrelevant to thisYes, I have taken that you feel Brendel's problem is not necessarily interpretation, but lack of ability outright. Greater or lesser authenticity to the composer's intent is possible even if the composer is centuries dead though. HIP exists for a reason even in many do not care for it. >all performers necessarily insert their musical identity into their interpretations.Yes, but again I think good performers can vary this. There are certainly cases where performers are at their best when "tamed" or reigned in by strong conductors who moderate aspects of their identity not suited to a give piece. >it's part of their jobThis is certainly true. It is generally the career and financial incentive of the interpreter to accentuate their identity to distinguish themself as unique from other musicians.>doesn't exist. It's an extreme hypothetical to elucidate the opposing end of the litmus I'm suggesting exists. The total opposite to someone like a Lang Lang drowning a piece in his own syrup.
>>124376597it explains your constant losing LOL>>124376598>It's all sociological bullshit with music. not really, good music sounds good and bad music (like the sort the indian loser is obsessed with) sounds bad. simple as. >I contend this is exactly an aspect of their range and interpretive skill.and you are wrong. there is no on and off switch for having a personality, performers are always exacting a personality on the music they play whether or not they wish to. >Greater or lesser authenticity to the composer's intent is possible even if the composer is centuries dead though. sure, but perfect authenticity is impossible. >HIP exists for a reason even in many do not care for it.HIP isn't authentic by any stretch of the imagination so it's irrelevant. >There are certainly cases where performers are at their best when "tamed" or reigned in by strong conductors who moderate aspects of their identity not suited to a give piece.that's a matter of interpretation, not personality. sviatoslav richter always recognizably sounds like richter even if he's not slamming down on every single chord in a given piece, which is precisely what makes him such a recognizable and, indeed, great pianist. >It is generally the career and financial incentive of the interpreter to accentuate their identity to distinguish themself as unique from other musicians.you'd think so, but orchestra these days seem to make their money off of sounding identical to one another. >The total opposite to someone like a Lang Lang drowning a piece in his own syrup.that's simply a matter of supremely bad taste, willfully so.
>>124376675What explains my 'constant losing'? Your irrational behavior? lmfao.>good music sounds goodTrue, Rach sounds goodhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs1oeJCZ4VmBELNhnlUoD1LJZkAtNUcRe>bad music (like the sort the indian loser is obsessed with) sounds bad. Prove it, fag.
>>124376722proven by listening to rachmaninoff and vomiting profusely from how awful the music is.
>>124376740Sounds like a (You) problem most likely caused by insomnia.
>>124376754it actually sounds like rachmaninoff is garbage, because he is.
>>124376781Your dementia explains this irrational behavior, caused by insomnia.
>>124376836your loserdom explains your obsession with garbage; it's where you belong after all LOL
>>124376848No proof of that whatsoever, insomniac.
>>124376884the proof is that you lost 5 times and you're also obsessed with the garbage pile known as rachmaninoff, hence your alias of "garbageman"
>>124376922Rachmaninoff is excellent. Your proof is illogical, related to your insomnia.
>>124376940rachmaninoff is garbage. your refusal to accept the facts only confirms your defeat.
>>124376948I accept the fact that Rachmaninoff reigns supreme though
>>124376963i'm glad you finally agree that rachmaninoff is supremely shit, you may well be on your way to recovery yet.
>>124375947Have you tried Rachmaninoff's Piano Trio (Trio élégiaque No. 2)? Passionate, fiery stuff.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okr4BGu0wNg&list=OLAK5uy_nUUKlEVtKN82v5-30EHOaOC4r8rLTxzrA&index=2
>>124376973Rachmaninoff is supremely excellent* yes. You seem to misspell a lot from insomnia.
>>124376675>there is no on and off switch for having a personalityWell it isn't a binary like that, but a matter of degrees. >HIP isn't authentic by any stretch of the imagination so it's irrelevant. Generally no, but depends on the HIPster.>sviatoslav richter always recognizably sounds like richter even if he's not slamming down on every single chord in a given pieceI'm confident that someone like Richter could play well in a way people would not recognize as him in a blind hearing be it very literal or whatever, but the matter is there is zero incentive for him to ever do this so it won't happen in practice. Richter certainly leans in and out of his uniqueness a bit across recordings though.But whatever. We can just agree that Brendel is not a generally impressive Pianist and leave it at that. My autism is waning and I'm about out of free time.
Did Karajan make any comments about Strauss or Bruckner?
>>124376986Yes but a different recording, I'll give that a try thanks.
>>124376986yep, it's garbage>>124376996not quite, loser pajeet, your indian passport simply renders you illiterate; i spelt "garbage" correctly. >>124377001>Well it isn't a binary like that, but a matter of degrees.i don't think there is any reasonable or measurable matter of degree either. it's simply a case of performers having a personality, and how well they control it and use it to their advantage in interpreting music. >Richter certainly leans in and out of his uniqueness a bit across recordings though.i don't think this is the case, he's simply very good at controlling how much he wants to sound like his stereotypical self. in his well tempered clavier performances, he's able to reign in the tempestuous, fiery elements associated with his playing in order to bring out the contrapuntal nature of the music, though his phrasing and tone is still uniquely and unmistakably his. >We can just agree that Brendel is not a generally impressive Pianist and leave it at that. i think he's beyond unimpressive; he's downright forgettable even on the best of days.
>>124377040I actually prefer this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z61ttG0cdas&list=OLAK5uy_mMsxIaeLHJYXgMGhoc7tgf2fBC4diPqps&index=2One of the two should satisfy lol. Shame Rachmaninoff never wrote a violin concerto, cello concerto, or violin sonata!
>>124377048>t. doesn't feel emotions and devoid of passion
Zarathustra is a great piece to start the day with :)
>>124377061>t. doesn't have standards and devoid of brain cells
>>124377048Not really, you are evidently insomniac with delusions.>>124377053True. I love concertos and violin concertos especially for some reason. It's gotta be my favorite form(that's partly why I love Rach so much). Have you tried Brahms' violin concerto? It is so dramatic, chilling. I was listening to this today:https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k82_pvlH4DNcTtbH1pbOJx1iXeOWcxnj0
>>124377202>Hahn>MarrinerJust teasing. Yeah his violin concerto is a transcendent masterpiece no doubt. I should give it a play today, I'm due for a listen.
>>124377202not really, you are evidently a loser who loves garbage like hilary hahn and rachmaninoff
>>124377226>>124377202I've no problem with lighthearted banter on occasion and expressing strongly held opinions, but can't we all just get along?
>>124377268the indian loser insists upon himself, unfortunately.
>>124377224Hahn's recordings are unparalleled. I feel like most violin concerto recordings (e.g. Mendelssohn) are either too old and hissy or badly interpreted, Hahn always delivers full quality.>>124377226Not really, you are evidently insomniac with extreme delusions.
>>124377288not really, you are evidently a massive loser who loves irredeemable garbage like hilary hahn and rachmaninoff
>>124377296>hilary hahn and rachmaninoffBest violinist alive and best romantic concerto composer, yes.
>>124377311your ESL lessons haven't gotten to it yet, but it's spelled "garbage" and "worst".
>>124377268>can't we all just get along?We all can get alon actually, yes, as long as the obvious troll is excluded.
>>124377311how can you mix up your ass with your mouth like that? Shit is supposed to come out of the former, dude, not the latter.
>>124377338Not really, I spelled it correctly.
when i started out on classical i almost fell into the hahn trap until someone on the internet pointed me in another direction. im very thankful for that to have had happened, so much so that not a day goes by where i dont feel proud of who i've become.
>>124377341yes, you can get *alone and leave the rest of us to discuss music without you shitting all over the board like you shit on the street. >>124377349he's indian, they get confused about that sort of thing very easily. >>124377355your ESL teacher will correct you when it comes time for you to learn how to spell "worst" and "garbage", saar.
>>124377288Well, while I never have Hahn amongst my favorites for any recording, she's pretty consistently solid, she never does an outright poor job, so if you like her work then that is all that matters. When you get a chance, you should check out the Heifetz/Reiner/Chicago recording for Brahms' Violin Concerto, that's probably the all-time gold standard, though there are of course many, many great recordings of it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQRYVIPwsOA&list=OLAK5uy_lO22tmRijYEoccufBanvbXQJVvkE6q4dU&index=1>>124377349kek, harsh but funny
>>124377423>she always does an outright poor jobfixed, hahn is fucking dogshit
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDlaBACI9Y0
>>124377435You can't reach her level of acclaim and stature if you're 'dogshit.' Even if overrated or not a generational creative talent, you still gotta be at least solid.
>>124377467>You can't reach her level of acclaim and stature if you're 'dogshit.'untrue, just look at celibidache or lang lang. lots of atrocious musicians make it big on account of exploiting the bad tastes of their audiences.
>>124377435Why?
>>124377472Eh, Celibidache fills a niche, his stature is that of a cult favorite. Hahn is more like Abbado.
Any recommendations for a 21st century set of Bach's Cello Suites? I tried Isserlis, he's okay, but I don't really like his Baroque, period-sound, I prefer the traditional romantic approach of the old masters like Rostropovich or Fournier, etc. Any in that vein?
>>124377477ahem, >Hillary Hahn is easily the WORST professional violinist on the stage today. Yes, she has "rhythm", if by rhythm you mean making as close to an approximation of an atomic clock as possible. Her playing is sterile, without interpretation, says nothing except "these are the notes". She has no rubato, takes no time and gives no time. It is like listening to a human computer play what should be organic music. It's like putting a simple midi of Mozart's facile sonata in C major through a self playing piano and saying "this is Mozart". it is the OPPOSITE of real music, pure garbage.>>124377489>Eh, Celibidache fills a niche, his stature is that of a cult favoritemore like a cult's deity, maybe.>Hahn is more like Abbado.no, because abbado has actual decent recordings. hahn is pure unfiltered dogshit.
>>124377544https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0NJBgXqSF8&list=OLAK5uy_m1g2HAfPpniWQR8EzDDJZcflTE0jtiOp4&index=1
>>124377559Your reasoning for disliking Hahn is a stale pasta from years ago?
>>124377559Damn, she's not even filtered dogshit? Whatever, have your opinion. All I know is while I would never intentionally choose one of her recordings to listen to, if I were hanging out with someone or at a gathering and someone put hers on, I wouldn't have an issue and would even enjoy it.
Official list of meme conductors:>Karajan>Bernstein>Stokowski>Barenboim>Toscanini>Rattle>Dudamel>Abbado>Solti>Klemperer>Furtwängler>Haitink>KleiberIf you like any of these conductors, get out of my general. You have terrible taste and this place will be made better by your absence.
>>124377378>no u x2I was correct in both regards. Stay away insomniac.>>124377589Yes. He is mentally retarded, don't you see? First he argues that Bernstein's Eroica doesn't strictly follow the indicated tempo and goes into mental brrakdown, now he wants "MUH RUBATO" out of the performer's ass? lmfao. Insomnia, I'm telling you.
>>124377632>>BarenboimO shi--
>>124377589but is it wrong? >>124377615>if I were hanging out with someone or at a gathering and someone put hers on, I wouldn't have an issue and would even enjoy it.i would educate them by putting on a better recording, but what do i know? >>124377640>i'm a loser x2you were wrong and you lost on both regards. keep losing, loser. >First he argues that Bernstein's Eroica doesn't strictly follow the indicated tempo and goes into mental brrakdowni know it's complicated for indians to understand, but rubato doesn't mean you can ignore the composer's metronome markings wholesale; in fact, beethoven is on record arguing for the idea that a metronome marking should not be taken as the sole tempo for an entire piece of music. but i'm casting pearls before swine at this point, so keep losing for me, loser.
>>124377715>but is it wrong?Haven't heard every recording from her, but she's not really a time beater from what I have heardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBfxbexYbgThere's quite a bit of tempo modification she applies here that aren't written directly in the score
>>124377715>you were wrongEvidently I was right and you are still wrong.>but rubato doesn't mean you can ignore the composer's metronome markings But it means pulling shit out of your ass, quite literally. Same with Bernstein's choice of tempo. And while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, Hahn has perfect performance (e.g. Brahms' concerto) and doesn't need any extra rubato to sustain interest, that's what makes her supreme and above everyone else. No one plays like her - because they can't, excess rubato is a cope for the lack of skill.Keep being this general's biggest L and a clown. Honk honk.
>>124377749good grief, her tone here is fucking unlistenable. >>124377766evidently you are wrong and i am still right. >But it means pulling shit out of your ass, quite literally. that would be what you do in india, yes, and you even put said shit on the street.>Same with Bernstein's choice of tempo.yes, i would go so far as to compare that with the shit you shat onto the street, pajeet. >Hahn has perfect performance LMFAO, indian excellence everybody. >No one plays like her thank the merciful Lord Almighty.
>>124377777>good grief, her tone here is fucking unlistenable.Why?
>>124377749It's hard to play with zero rubato. Easy to play with too much. Hahn is just very good, too good for some tastelets here in fact.
feels like a Mahler 5 day :)
>>124377777Evidently you're still incorrect and I am true.>that would be what you do in india, yesConcession accepted.
>>124377780it's unbelievably fucking shrill, for one. >>124377783LOL, i wonder how hilary feels about having such a large fanbase in india.
>>124377766that's the second time you've mentioned pulling things out of buttholes
>>124377796evidently you're still illiterate and losing, LOL>Concession accepted.yes, i do indeed concede that you shit in the street in india; it goes without saying even. >>124377803what did you expect from an indian exactly? their entire culture revolves around the stuff that comes out of buttholes.
>>124377777>Lord Almighty.Did you learn to capitalize finally? Graduated kindergarten I see.
>>124377809one day you'll figure out why i choose to capitalize some words and not others; maybe after you hit puberty.
>>124377799Indians probably don't listen to classical music. It's just you.>>124377808You conceeded already, clown.
now playingCopland: Quiet Cityhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEuqY00d-s&list=OLAK5uy_lNalfkNgiWQCPEc64RxkNJThjqdrHE8lE&index=5start of Copland: Symphony No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T6uI_x4dF8&list=OLAK5uy_lNalfkNgiWQCPEc64RxkNJThjqdrHE8lE&index=2https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lNalfkNgiWQCPEc64RxkNJThjqdrHE8lE>Late in his career, Leonard Bernstein returned to the greatest orchestral work by his lifelong friend, Aaron Copland, with a performance that eclipsed all others, including Bernstein's own previous recording of the Symphony no. 3 on Sony. Though Copland's stock still hadn't climbed back to its present height, Bernstein gave the music a grandeur that made you forget how much of a cliché the Fanfare for the Common Man--which was worked into the finale of the Third--can be. In fact, many of the world-stopping qualities Bernstein brought to his second Mahler cycle for Deutsche Grammophon seem much in evidence here, with the New York Philharmonic playing as though its collective life depended on it. --David Patrick Stearns
>>124377823>Indians probably don't listen to classical music. maybe not indians (plural), but the indian (singular) i'm talking to definitely does>You conceeded already, clown.yes, i do indeed concede that you shit in the street in india; it goes without saying even.
>>124377809>Did you finally learn to capitalize? Graduated kindergarten, I see.ftfy
>>124377840So you're talking to yourself, then, clown?
>>124377830ew, people willingly listen to copland???>>124377845lmfao>>124377848i'm talking to you, saar. please do try to keep up.
>>124377856>ew, people willingly listen to copland???It's my patriotic duty as an American.
>>124377830>something something cocks in and around orifices
>>124377861Jews aren't American, sweetie.
>>124377544https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrcI1A8lrCw&list=PL8Hi9pw3gEfRb5gst4oYZMYRgNwKD2OBp&index=1
>>124377861trust me, even people who advocate for american music don't bother with copland these days. now it's trendy to shill for ives and crawford seeger (yuck).
>>124377856Judging by your comment, you were talking to yourself, clown.>>124377861That's kinda cringe.
>>124377896afraid not, illiterate jeet, i'm talking to you. please do try to keep up, saar.
Chopin > IvesThis is factual. Ives cries as he's being forgotten even in Jewnites States and Chopin's polonaises are heard throughout Europe.
>>124377896>That's kinda cringe.I was obviously kidding, you commie!>>124377890Well, I haven't heard it before, and I enjoy what other Copland I have, so might as well find out firsthand.
>>124377911unfortunately so, though the bar is on the floor in that regard. >>124377917>and I enjoy what other Copland I havemy condolences, i hope you get over your condition sooner rather than later.
>>124377905Afraid yes, you're known to have insomniac delusions.>>124377923Bar is as high as sky with Chopin.
>>124377885Not bad! Thanks.
>>124377927afraid not, illiterate jeet, i'm talking to you. please do try to keep up, saar.>Bar is as high as sky with Chopin.the bar of shit, yes.
>>124377871>"This period turned sour when he also came into contact with Bernstein, Copland and their impressionable circle in the composition class. Already something of an outcast amongst this clique (not being Jewish, homosexual, or Paris-trained), his naturally shy and aloof demeanor could only have amplified his uneasiness in the highly competitive Tanglewood environment. Hovhaness later stated that his music was ridiculed by members of this group, singling out Bernstein and Copland. Whereas Leslie Heward had previously publicly acclaimed the Exile Symphony, Bernstein had allegedly dismissed it as "ghetto music" after hearing only some of the Heward recording, and Copland proceeded to talk loudly (in Spanish) over the recording, preventing others from listening. Perceiving himself the object of ridicule, a somewhat reactionary Hovhaness abruptly left Tanglewood, with his artistic self-assurance somewhat undermined."
>>124377911Both shit
>>124377943put your trip back on, pedophile kraut.
>>124377940Trust me, you were talking to yourself.>the bar of shitThat's something Ives hides in his skirt, insomniac.
>>124377953afraid not, illiterate jeet, i'm talking to you. please do try to keep up, saar.>That's something Ives hides in his skirti guess you and ives do share something in common after all!
>>124377951put YOUR trip back on.
>>124377943Damn that's kinda sad :("Ghetto music" and talking over it, quite rude.
>>124377979i don't have one. stop cowering and put your trip back on, pedophile kraut.
>>124377984jews and faggots belong in ovens instead of concert halls.
>>124377911Chopin was never "good".
>>124378108Wagner was right. in Chopin's piano pieces the left hand either accompanies or imitates the right hand.
confession: a lot of Eastern European classical, such as Dvorak and Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff, sound better in the hands of Western European and American conductors. A lot of times in reviews for recordings of pieces by those composers you'll see, if it's performed by a conductor or ensemble of musicians of the same nationality and ethnic background, praise for an 'authentic Czech/Russian/etc. sound' and indeed many times this can be a virtue. However, not always -- sometimes these recordings instead end up emphasizing undesirable, too niche and eccentric traits, and could do with some cosmopolitan or Western polishing. At the very least, one should always try both sides; not only a Czech quartet can perform Dvorak's chamber music, and in fact sometimes it could do with an outsider perspective.
my current go-to's for Brahms' symphonies: Kurt Sanderling and Levine, both cycles for each (Staatskapelle Dresden + Berlin Symphony Orchestra [pic] and Chicago + Vienna, respectively). Top-notch stuff!Here's the start of Symphony No. 2 performed by Sanderling/BSOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd0ECaIj0wk&list=OLAK5uy_nFX2z5HYx0gWSnEW2DkCwcsG-75iU3eRM&index=5I'm iffy on Levine's German Requiem though, too operatic for my tastes but if you're into that then I'm sure you'll love it.
>>124378213fucking awful stuff
I hate them for collaborating with that whiny Thom Yorke twat
>>124378221but enough about your CV.
>>124378213i like kna, but this recording is most certain it's Klemperer. i hate when that happenshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHXuGU-8MZU
>>124378247Klemperer's Brahms is undoubtedly among the very best for Brahms, but I like to mix up the recordings I listen to for the stuff I revisit often, like Brahms, plus the Sanderling and Levine cycles have fantastic sound quality, and on top of that give me all I'm presently wanting out of a recording for these works, interpretively and production-wise and orchestra performance.>>124378221You do you, I hope someone else here shares my tastes and will enjoy these recordings.
>>124378234why are you so obsessed with my credulous vagner?>>124378290klemperer’s brahms has gotten old and stale; he drags in everything he conducts and is far too metronomic. the sanderling and levine cycles are simply pure shit.
I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the Vagners in the next post.
I guess it's a Brahms day, let's try<------https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN41SD60jDE&list=OLAK5uy_kJMQPNCe2iHz8kH8EjdZjDzBjo2PUDaR8&index=3Never heard of this pianist or recording before now, I just searched for a random one released in the past decade and it's on a label I recognize. If it's no good, then gonna switch to Paul Lewis' recordings of these same works, he's a very good pianist from what I've heard from him.
The GOAT string quartet: Op. 132 in A minorThe GOAT piano sonata: the HammerklavierThe GOAT piano concerto: the EmperorThe GOAT symphony: the EroicaLiterally the only genre Beethoven does not absolutely dominant is vocal music, but pure instrumental music is superior to music with lyrics anyways because language is inherently flawed as a means of communication (as Wittgenstein proved).
>>124377632>>RattleI'm enjoying his recording of Brahms' German Requiem right now. He seems to do a pretty good job of choral stuff, at least from the few I've heard from him. Gonna try out his DLvdE tonight.inb4 blind hate
>>124378649do people really think the eroica is beethoven’s best symphony? this claim seems like a totally modern trend, i can’t find a single person claiming such a thing from before the 2010s. >>124378695LOL, how embarrassing
>>124378649Let's not forget his Missa Solemnis for the category you named (though I wish he had more masses lieder and short choral songs). His genius really is stunning though, especially adding his mastery of violin and cello sonatas, violin concerto, piano trios. I also wish he had a cello concerto.
honegger's string quartets are pretty good
>>124378709>LOL, how embarrassinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1GHq20aztU&list=OLAK5uy_kVWZwpaaofcs6MD-DeFL8LHBAp97oevsE&index=2Lovely and splendid to my ears.
>>124378740Will check them out, thanks for the reminder.
>>124378753i hope you find ways to overcome your deafness, they’re working on cochlear implants these days that might help.
>>124378778
>>124378782rattle is perhaps the only conductor i’ve seen who looks like he’s having a schizophrenic conversation with himself when he’s on the podium, it’s incredible. what a fucking idiot.
I really like Bach, don't get me wrong, but sometimes I understand why Corelli's music was much, much more celebrated in his time.
>>124378801at least he isn't Jewish.
>>124378984irrelevant.
>>124378984so? he’s a trash conductor regardless.
>>124379005Israel must accept African immigrants.
>>124379022israel could go kaput tomorrow and simon rattle would still be a talentless hack
Bach never existed; just like Shakespeare, it was a pen name used by several composers who wrote works together as a joke which then got out of hand.
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7HSwwSHUcM
Damn, Bach's 6th Cello Suite is mind-blowing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7QjvJSF33A&list=OLAK5uy_kv8--oGFP9zVe7a7MLfuTOne4VbP-4h5w&index=36Been revisiting and doing a close listen of the Rostropovich set, as Fournier's as traditionally been my favorite and preference.
>>124379445try shafran nexthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0jPU_neGY&list=OLAK5uy_lE7ERfKdAsJheKUFTZ-iAY6myy_X2vtFw&index=25
>>124379452I've got Schiff and Queyras as my next two but will take a gander at that one, thanks.
feels like a... Sibelius night. Time to keep working through the Ashkenazy cycle
>>124379513his later symphonies and tone poems are great to play in winter.
now playingstart of JS Bach: Die Kunst der Fuge, BWV 1080https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzdmIQYtqLs&list=OLAK5uy_n3xvVKqxEWSdb-GzUsYRX4qlX1RJlY5WQ&index=1>Johann Sebastian Bach plays a key role in her life - she is today one of the most significant interpreters of his music. The remarkable biography of this celebrated pianist gives her a unique position in the world of music. Her life has taken her from the re-education camps of the Chinese Cultural Revolution to Paris, where her international career as a pianist began rather late, but for that all the more successful. In Leipzig, where Bach held his final professional position and where he composed The Art of Fugue, Zhu Xiao-Mei recorded this contrapuntal masterpiece, which is for her ""the absolute zenith of polyphonic art."" As she says, ""The Art of Fugue exercises a total fascination on you. It's like a magnet: you can't detach yourself from it. It is music that opens the gates to an infinite world where time no longer exists; a world where beauty and peace reign supreme, detached from all earthly contingencies.>Her playing of the piece - in which Bach explored varied contrapuntal treatments of an initial fugal subject in D minor - is imaginative and passionate, the polyphony beautifully illuminated with Ms. Zhu's nuanced contrasts and crisp touch. --Vivien Schweitzer, New York Times Classical Playlist>New York Times, Classical Best of 2014: In the program notes, the pianist Zhu Xiao-Mei describes the mental and physical toil of preparing this difficult work, rendered here with imagination and insight. The polyphony is deftly illuminated with a crisp touch and elegant contrasts. --Vivien Schweitzer, New York Times
>>124379920getting real tired of this new trend of “every piece i record is a fucking marathon and i devoted 10 years of my life to learning how to play slightly over an hour of music” that every single performer seems to be hopping onto these days
>>124379989lol that's a pretty specific beef you have in mind there
>>124380002it’s so corny and tired. all these pieces are standard fucking repertoire, stop making a big deal about how agonizing it was to learn it.
pohjola's daughter op 49 remastered by art et sonshttps://files.catbox.moe/n0s0el.mp3 halle orchestra barbirolli (2020)https://files.catbox.moe/88yx5n.mp3 bournemouth berglund (2024)
>>124380090Thanks! Pohjola's Daughter is one of my favourite tone poems and I love Berglund's Sibelius.
>>124380090That Barbirolli one sounds gorgeous. Might be time I finally listen through his Sibelius cycle.
let's get Passionate (in English!)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqhu4_VN1KM&list=OLAK5uy_kumCZsrcapl4Q7ZPqbx3BEurpxhF744iI&index=1Also didn't know Britten/ECO also have a recording of the Brandenburg Concertos till I saw it just now, definitely gonna listen to that later tonight.
>>124380090barbirolli was such a horrific conductor god damn
>>124380124>>124380181you can hear him very briefly at 8:21
>>124380190you can hear him grunting and struggling to shit in every single recording he made
>>124380181His style works very well for music like Sibelius', pieces that benefit from an extra oomph, a stylized performance.
>>124380196yeah it's hilarious
>>124380202the unrehearsed orchestra dragging and plodding all over the place style? seems more like a fucking liability to me.
>>124380236Where he puts his own imprint onto the music, adding a personalized touch.
>>124380253a personalized touch of geriatric feces, yeah.
>>124380144You put a lot of effort in these threads, I will give you that.
>>124379349What about his 30 sons?
now playing, best recordings of Schumann's Piano Triosstart of Schumann: Piano Trio No. 2 in F Major, Op. 80https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkueVevY5b0&list=OLAK5uy_n9PKqbNKDs2mPIZBvj7GDjAVTVckGdKsc&index=13>>124381015be the change you want to see in the world, and all that. Sharing great music makes me happy, plus occasionally gets some discussions going.
Cant get into Shostakovich. I love chambert music, quartets and all that in general but Shosta cant move me so far. Maybe I need to hear with more intention.
>>124381091maybe it’s time to stop coping and just admit that the music is shit
>>124381091I'm not familiar with that set, but try the Borodin Quartet cycle, their approach is relatively the most approachable -- romantic, lyrical, warm. Otherwise, nothing wrong with that, happens sometimes. Maybe it's not for you ever, maybe it's just not for you right now. Try a few and if still nothing then return to it in a couple months or so.Oh, and try the Piano Quintet, very accessible and immediately appealing.
Do you have a /classical/ routine? I download albums in the afternoon, listen to a new one (to me) before going to bed. Next day I put a couple of albums while at work. Read /classical/ now and then and put some youtube link you guys share if it looks interesting.
>>124381115Thanks for the recs.
>>124381124Not really. At most I try to listen to more unfamiliar recordings, whether completely or have only heard it once, than ones I know very well in any given day, but no set structure or anything. For reading I do, however for music just kinda as the mood strikes, though I do like to listen to music as I read news after waking up.
>>124381144Your pic made me realize almost all of the recordings of Beethoven's Piano Concertos I've listened to are older, most of them classic recordings. Should try and see how it's performed these days.
>>124381152Do you listen to music as a focused activity? Or just as background? My nightly listening is a standalone hobby, but through the day the music is just there.
>>124381176Most of the time I'm doing casual, mindless reading while listening to music. Sometimes if I really wanna focus I'll pace around my room, and on rare occasion lay on my bed with my eyes closed and listen (rare because too often I end up taking a nap this way lol -- hence why I generally prefer the casual reading or pacing).When it's before bed, or rather while trying to go to bed, I'll casual read until I can't anymore then focus solely on the music, then before too long I'll be out.
for me, it's Backhaus's Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVlZZ2Wo2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VR-6AS0-l4
What would HIP wagner sound like?
>>124382159HIP doesn't matter much for late romantic and onward.
>>124377972Doubtful, insomniac.
>>124382220doubt not, illiterate jeet, i'm talking to you. please do try to keep up, saar.
>>124382219I know
>>124382242Pretty sure you mean yourself after all.
>>124382159Depends what you mean by HIP. If you mean the current movement, then it would sound like Wagner played like Baroque music, in other words, absolute shit. If you mean a performance that is actually historically accurate, then it would probably be very interesting to hear Wagner without all the constant vibrato.
Why are so many of the people who enjoy classical autistic to some degree? Even some composers like Mozart and Wagner seem autistic to a degree in their behaviour
>>124382719Spergs are not autists>b-but it falls under asdDont care, aspergers is much closer to ADHD than to autism. I say this as someone who worked with them all my life, Wagner and Mozart resemble spergs more than autists
>>124382737>but it falls under asdIt does. A functioning brain can tell that autism comes in different shapes. Spergs and autists still share many traits and both are essentially the same thing with differences.
>>124382875Not really. Onions example but I got no other case study easily available: Take these 2 youtuber with the two respective conditions>AutismChris Chan>SpergMagicmushThere is a significant difference in these two individuals and their level of self awareness. You can't really say they are in any way equal
>>124381022Out of hand.
>>124382929>Take these 2 youtuber with the two respective conditionsI don't care about some youtuber, or your own analysis, faggot. Show studies.
>>124382990>DO YOU HAVE ANY PEER REVIEWED STUDIES????i can give peer reviewed studies with AI generated images of rats with gigantic nutsacks. Studies don't matter as much as you think
>>124383019They matter more than random 4chin pseud babble that's for sure.
>>124383027Matters about equally.
I listened to Tod und Verklärung for the first time today, and it was incredibly moving. I didn't know classical could make me feel this way. I'm going to take this genre seriously from now on. Thank you StraussT: fusion enjoyer
>>124383032You wish lmao.
>>124382159You don't have to imagine.https://youtu.be/P9VRmOBRUVk
Name a single post-war composition that isn't shit.Hard mode: a single post-1980 composition that isn't shit.
>>124383230I give up. I don't know. You are right. Everything is shit.
Hartmann's sixth symphony.A Spanish funnel-web spider.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g4KgIZDCnw
>>124383056So true reddister
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shB6rjjAf78
Do you think that temperaments matter significantly, or is it HIP autism
>>124383523autism after bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5LuBmkdCIw
>>124383230>Name a single post-war composition that isn't shitThe Rake's Progress
>>124382929autists can be high functioning with high intelligence but with narrow interests, think sheldon cooper or the average /g/ fag. spergs are more like elon musk or redditors, basically normies of average intelligence but socially oblivious and with personality flaws.
>>124383384So true dunning krugersister
>>124383605they are the same thing
>>124383658Retard
>>124383722Many professionals believed Asperger's was a more mild form of autism, leading to the origin of the phrase “high-functioning.” Now, children with Asperger's symptoms are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
>>124383744Experts also believe you're a woman if you lob your cock off
>>124383744>copy pastes the first result from alphabet's search engine
fallen in love with Faure's Nocturnes, been my go-to listen before bed these past couple nightshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8h_6ZNUfXM&list=OLAK5uy_lgY7ihdYjlhnoyGw1eUXdQ8rhJPSbnxAI&index=1
>>124384427>needing lullabies to sleep
>>124384464lol
Bohm's Mozart is so boring
>>124384678Whose do you prefer? I love Bohm's when I first got into Mozart and will always have a place for his in my heart. However, I'll admit I no longer find his exciting to listen to today, but that's probably due to overplaying it.
now playingstart of JS Bach: Violin Sonata No. 3 in C Major, BWV 1005https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLwi_iSEDNY&list=OLAK5uy_kCNAQahZ3iQRgzkqNAG17LPKfOjc1xPPQ&index=22>Julia Fischer's recording for PENTATONE was showered with praise upon it's first release in 2005. "Classic accounts by Milstein and Grumiaux have been usurped by this extraordinarily gifted newcomer" enthused BBC Music Magazine. "Her mastery is beyond question," affirmed Gramophone magazine "her ability to trace a smooth, even line a source of pleasure itself." It also achieved the rare distinction of garnering three of France's most prestigious awards: the Diapason d'Or from Diapason; the CHOC from Le Monde de la Musique; and the highest rating from Classica-Repertoire.High praise.
may i plead with a wondering soul to provide me with the following series:https://www.discogs.com/release/13143979-Franz-Schubert-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Karl-B%C3%B6hm-Symphonien-5-6https://www.discogs.com/release/14291421-Franz-Schubert-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Karl-B%C3%B6hm-Symphonien-1-2-Rosamunde-Ouverthttps://www.discogs.com/release/14303705-Franz-Schubert-Berliner-Philharmoniker-Karl-B%C3%B6hm-Symphonien-9-8-Unvollendete-Unfinished
>>124384850Personally I really like the Suitner set for Mozart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKwrLKfhJNc
>>124384678Pretty much. Except for the operas.
Going through the Nash Ensemble's many various recordings, both of standard repertoire and lesser-performed stuff. Anyone else here a fan or have any specific recs?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1OHi-l3P5o&list=OLAK5uy_mIEawLHXLI4k_9hbr2L8A0tpZ_XezFBas&index=9These Bruch ones sound like a more romantic Brahms, good stuff.
>>124384990the only reason you like suitner is because he worked with annerose schmidt. she isn't worth throwing bohm under the bus, maho-kun. it's time to let her go.
Anyone who dislikes Karl Richter is a fag. Best Bach conductor hands down.
>>124385500Bohm is just too slow in Mozart
>>124385500That wasn't me, dude. Luv Böhm.
>>124382281nope, i'm talking to you, illiterate jeet. please do try to keep up, saar.>>124384678he drags like crazy in classical repertoire, which is odd because he's a speed demon in romantic repertoire. who knows what was going through his head honestly?
>>124385605He makes the classical more romantic and the romantic more classical.
>>124385605>who knows what was going through his head honestly?He probably prefers classical repertoire and is just rushing through romantic music to get to what he wants
>>124385624the former is just in bad taste>>124385625then why play what he prefers worse?
>>124385639Because slower is better
>>124385639>the former is just in bad tasteFunny, I see it the opposite way. Hence the beauty and appeal in Bohm's moderating approach.
>>124385649LOL>>124385652bohm's approach doesn't moderate anything, it just puts the audience to sleep.
Böhm completely redeemed himself with his 1964 Magic Flute (DG)
Didn't know this recording existed. Apparently it's Solti's very last performance, recorded seven weeks before he died on Sept. 4, 1997. An appropriate final piece.
>>124385692whoops forgotListening to it now, it's not as good as his excellent recording with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the primary difference being due to the quality of the orchestras, but it's still worth a listen I think if you're a fan of Solti like me.
>>124385512truehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gxzqTJQGFM
>>124385706what's there to be a fan about with solti, the uncontrollably loud brass that drowns out the rest of the orchestra or him not knowing wtf to do in slow movements so he just drags the shit out of all of them in a vain attempt to procure "profundity"?
>>124385683>Böhm completely redeemed himself with his 1964 Magic Flute (DG)It's good but mostly due to the singing. I think it lacks energy. I mean, it's even slower than Klemperer.
>>124385734His thrilling, muscular approach is often very exciting. Doesn't always work, and on occasion he misses out on the heart and soul of a piece, but when it does, it's excellent, impossible to call his good recordings boring.
>>124385759i'm personally not excited by an idiot who has no idea how to conduct anything slower than 80bpm, but you do you.
Even a hack like Solti has good dayshttps://youtu.be/z61G1VMMxPE?si=03KER2KAcFRuhBV2
>>124385770https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZH6F4AKow&list=OLAK5uy_mVlw2sIY5zGXZNWvFQjvgijQh5WPmH61Y&index=4Sounds good to me.
>>124385753I posted this before. It might be a tad slow, but it's so amazingly beautiful, it matters not.https://youtu.be/kMaZezoS3CQ?si=R2DM0LdW47PHsnCy
>>124385788>10 fucking minutesjesus christ, kill yourself.
>>124385798>>124385770https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8s2Jf76dc&list=OLAK5uy_nUtK6v6PeiuOWIL35b0KDJrXsmLR2_eQw&index=8
>>124385788Literally perfect
>>124385824thank you brother
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNHkpRIgEs
>>124385813don’t care about br*tish “composers”>>124385824bait is supposed to be believable
>>124385849Elgar's Second Symphony is excellent but whatever, deprive yourself. I will grant that Solti's Beethoven isn't very good and I haven't tried his Brahms, I should get on that. His Mendelssohn is nice too.
>>124385863depriving myself of angloid slop? sounds like a good thing to me.
>>124385649>>124385652yes>>124385661embarrassing post
>>124385877>Maho-kun and TJ finally agree on somethingNow kiss
>>124385877geriatric post
>>124385889The post you're replying to isn't sisteranon, in fact he's the one whose post is referred to as 'embarrassing.'
next Brahms cycles to try:Kertesz/ViennaBernstein/ViennaSolti/ChicagoIf anyone has any recommendations for modern recordings, I'm all ears! It's tough because there are so many, it's tough to sift through the mountain of sets recorded in the past couple decades from the top-tier conductors even on down to those with small stature -- like I was just looking at Andrew Manze's cycle with Helsingborg, which I might save for way down the line if I have nothing else in the Brahms backlog.
>>124381173the attitude portrayed here resembles the behavior of an individual addicted to consumer goods and services
>>124386034No, I just know tastes and performance practice changes over time, and new recordings are always being produced, so I'm merely curious to see how it's done today, especially if something new and different about the piece can be said and demonstrated. Plus it's always nice to get the benefits of modern, high-budget production quality if possible (obviously the quality of the actual performance is the most important part), and while you might not agree or care about this last point, I believe it's good to take any opportunity to support and engage with contemporary, living artists/musicians whenever possible.
>>124386068>Plus it's always nice to get the benefits of modern, high-budget production quality if possiblewhat benefits, the dead sound or the fucked tone? >I believe it's good to take any opportunity to support and engage with contemporary, living artists/musicians whenever possible.why bother when the vast majority of them are dogshit.
>>124385987kertesz, bernstein and solti are jews>>124386068the attitude portrayed here resembles the behavior of an individual addicted to consumer goods and services
>>124386081The clarity, the balancing, the richness. There may be some aspects which are subjective, sure, where the best recordings from the latter half of the 20th century sound better, but on the whole, on average, the more objective elements are better. You won't get any hiss or mono recordings from something recorded and released today is all I'm saying. Granted, it's not such a big deal that it brings something over the best recordings of the 60s and on, but it's still nice that you don't have to worry about it for a contemporary recording.>>124386088I care about art.
>>124385798>>124385770https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0we8dQTXKiE&list=PLpeQ77a99TDcF2pNAexszD9aBFdKkhLiY&index=3
>>124386139>The clarity, the balancing, the richness. modern recordings typically sound veiled as fuck in spite of their harshness of timbre and are extraordinarily sterile sounding so i have no idea what "clarity" or "richness" you're referring to. as for balancing, literally how many studio recordings have you heard in your entire life where something was significantly wrong with the balances that wasn't the fault of the orchestra or the conductor? if anything, modern orchestras and conductors are awful at bringing out the winds, so balances on modern recordings suck more. >on average, the more objective elements are better. what fucking objective elements? are you listening to music or are you measuring it? >you don't have to worry about it for a contemporary recording.yeah, i don't have to worry about it sounding good, because it won't. >>124386168LOL
>>124386088didn't know about Kertesz. stop ruining everyone for all of us!
>>124386174Yes, anon, surely you're the only one who knows what they're doing and the entire industry is clueless, even misguided. Look, all I'm saying is if I go about listening to a modern recording, I know I'm virtually guaranteed to not have to worry about having any issues or qualms about the production and sound quality. This doesn't mean anything released today is gonna sound better than everything released in the 20th century, there's just a higher floor, can we at least agree to that?
>>124386174>LOLme n da gang r lmao-ing @ u rn frfrBlessed is he that commeth in the name of the lorde:Glory to the, o lorde in the highest.amen
>>124385987Surprisingly a good cycle from a usually garbage conductor
>>124386260Yeah? With the exception of his Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos, I've disliked the handful of things I've heard conducted by him, but on your recommendation I will give it a try, anon, thanks.
>>124386227yes, the entire classical industry is indeed completely fucking clueless on multiple levels, from the recordings in their archives to the performers that they're signing contracts with to the production standards that they're holding themselves to because none of the record execs actually listen to the recordings they put out. this is literally nothing new, it's been like this for literal decades. how fucking naive are you? >I know I'm virtually guaranteed to not have to worry about having any issues or qualms about the production and sound quality. except i know for a fact that if i'm listening to a reference recordings release, it's going to be compressed to shit and the orchestra's tone is going to sound completely fucked. if i'm listening to channel classics, they're going to unnaturally emphasize dynamic range and everything is going to sound glossy and sharp. if i'm hearing a modern DG (or really any UMG label) recording, it's going to sound like a sterile, undynamic travesty. if anything, listening to a modern recording basically guarantees that the production is going to sound like the $50 focusrite ADC they're using as a fucking recording interface. >>124386249under solti's baton, you literally cannot tell that the benedictus of the missa solemnis is actually in sonata form. there are no subjects, there is no development, there is only monotonous dragging and seriously bad violin playing.
Why do gay men often end up marrying their look-a-likes?
>>124386300i don't know why, but there's this really funny picture of diddy and meek mill together and all i can think about when i see it is that these big gay black men basically wanted to fuck themselves in the ass.
>>124386273he's only trolling your propensity for new products and services by recommending garbage cycles comma maybe period i wouldn't take it seriously
>>124386331Oh :(You don't believe in supporting contemporary art? Why would you not wanna give a conductor, an orchestra, a musician living at the same time as you, experiencing the same world, sharing many of the same influences and life events as you, a try?
>>124386314>all i can think about when i see it is that these big gay black men basically wanted to fuck themselves in the ass>all i can think about>big gay black men>all i can think about>in the ass>all i can think about>all i can think aboutGeez, anon... I ...
>>124386353as it turns out, looking at a picture of big gay black men causes them to appear in your mind's eye. it's not a concept i would expect someone unable to rotate objects in their mind to understand. >>124386352contemporary art fucking sucks cock, i hope it all burns.
>>124386300Just to be clear, that's not Sam Smith. It's Nezet-Seguin and his husband.
>>124386299Well, very few things are gonna be perfect. In the same way there are many great old recordings with less-than-stellar sound quality and production which we forgive because of the performance, the same can be done with releases coming out today, except with the higher floor there's gonna be less to forgive and less often, especially any egregious dealbreakers.
>>124386380>Well, very few things are gonna be perfect.and in the case of modern recordings, none of them are perfect. >the same can be done with releases coming out todayexcept the performances suck and the production sucks even more, so what is there to forgive exactly?
>>124386363I don't know who Meek Mill is, but I know Diddy, and I've never seen any indication of him being gay. Nor is he particularly "big". He appears to be black though, I'll give you that.
>>124386370lol>>124386363>contemporary art fucking sucks cock, i hope it all burns.I'm using 'art' in the broad sense. You don't believe it's good to support contemporary conductors and musicians and orchestras and institutions whenever possible? Given that they're good, of course.
>>124386396>but I know Diddy, and I've never seen any indication of him being gay.Have you been living under a rock with no internet? Check the news about him...
>>124386396>but I know Diddy, and I've never seen any indication of him being gayi have a feeling that the former assertion is definitely untrue. >>124386399>You don't believe it's good to support contemporary conductors and musicians and orchestras and institutions whenever possible? no, i don't believe that it's good to support shitty music just because it's modern.
W.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl_Mh_7rarY
>>124386448>for the same thingbeing idiots?
>>124386415...why'd you ignore and cutoff the last part of my post? 'Given that they're good, of course.' That's primarily what I'm referring to by 'whenever possible' -- possibility referring not to opportunity and means, but rather merit and justification by their quality. If you've truly surveyed hundreds of contemporary figures in classical music, from composers to conductors to the performers, and found literally all of them utterly devoid of any and all talent and artistry, then fine, I think that's absurd, but whatever. If there are quality ones though, which there obviously are, then I want to experience and engage with their work, I want them to succeed, I want them to become receive the recognition they deserve, which starts by, y'know, giving their music a listen.
>>124386448>no better time to join our patreonIs everything a ruse, scam, whatever, these days?
>>124386461>If you've truly surveyed hundreds of contemporary figures in classical music, from composers to conductors to the performers, and found literally all of them utterly devoid of any and all talent and artistryas far as orchestras go, this is not far from the truth. aside from the handful of big names like chailly, ivan fischer, thomas dausgaard, or paavo jarvi on a really good day, what good is there in modern conducting? they've already succeeded and all of them are pulling 6 figure salaries, so why the rush to financially support them when their net worth is more than your and my entire families combined? and let's not even talk about orchestras, because they all sound the same.
I have the urge to make a Save Europa edit with Adagio for Strings as the BGM.
>>124386558i recommend you travel back in time to 2017 when fashwave edits weren’t cringe before attempting such a task
>>124386512Because if they're good and have something to say about a piece with their performance, then I wanna hear it. How do you think they achieve their success? By people listening to their output. Lastly, this is how we keep the industry and tradition alive. No different than going to see new films or read contemporary literature or whatever artform.>they've already succeededThat's like saying 'why vote for a political candidate, they already have all the support they need, they've already succeeded' -- that success and support is the result of an accumulation of individuals. Is me posting about Chailly here gonna make any difference to him? No, not specifically, but it's the mindset and principle that I believe deserves proliferation.
>>124386607>Lastly, this is how we keep the industry and tradition alive. the industry is already on life support regardless of whether or not everyone here supports it. the tradition died ages ago, first in composition and now in performance where everyone sounds the same and nobody has any idea what they’re doing. pretending that you’re helping to preserve the fire when it’s already going out, if not already gone out, is just silly. >That's like saying 'why vote for a political candidate, they already have all the support they need, they've already succeeded' more like “why vote for trump if you live in DC?” your vote doesn’t matter.
>>124386748more like why even bother when the voting machines use proprietary software
>>1243867734chan uses proprietary software too, better stop posting.
>>124385987if anyone wants to try Kertesz/Vienna with me, here's the start of Brahms 3:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBJI31ltjP4&list=OLAK5uy_m36EsSHn0oCpiVumZ8QP_EPEtYRlazu8Y&index=19Sounds gorgeous to me so far.and then the Bernstein/Vienna:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN9CIpddlc8&list=OLAK5uy_lSrCXpvVAebFoIAFZDFYyvxjrbp0Q20Qo&index=1Two very different interpretations. Here's what Hurwitz has the say about this one:>Big, heavy, slow, mannered, and beautifully played, this performance has many gorgeous moments but even more irritating ones. Something about Brahms really put Leonard Bernstein on his worst behavior, as though the music's inherent emotional reticence forced the conductor to give it all the extra juice he could pump into it. Well, Bernstein had plenty of juice to pump, if you'll pardon the expression, but the result in Brahms is just a bad case of bloating. --David Hurwitzlol
>>124386795that's not the point retard
>>124386848holy shit, a negative review of a bernstein recording from hurwitz? what next, pigs will fly? >>124386849then why mention proprietary software? your PC uses proprietary software too.
>>124386865>holy shit, a negative review of a bernstein recording from hurwitz? what next, pigs will fly?>Leonard Bernstein’s second Brahms cycle, with the Vienna Philharmonic for Deutsche Grammophon, featured some of the slowest, most self-indulgent music making of his career, though the playing as such was gorgeous. The earlier New York Philharmonic cycle can’t compare with the Viennese for sheer beauty of sound, but Bernstein’s performances are far more persuasive. Indeed, the best performance here is of the more difficult symphony of the pair–the Third–in which everything culminates in an exciting yet disciplined account of the passionate finale. In general, Bernstein offers straightforward, vigorous music making in both works, and the orchestra responds with fervor. There are more subtle accounts, perhaps, but few as bracing. Throw in excellently remastered sound, and the result is a very pleasant surprise in an area of the repertoire that isn’t normally considered Lenny territory.aka he prefers the NY (Sony) cycle, but yeah on the whole he doesn't seem to love Bernstein on Brahms.
>>124386848Kertesz claim to fame is his recording of Bluebeards Castle, and justly so. Other than that, I'm not so sure... his early Mozart symphonies are decent (for what it's worth in this repertoire), but his Schubert cycle is rather "mid", as you say
>>124386891I thought it was his Dvorak cycle? That was my first introduction to him anyway. And I don't know, reading the reviews on this Brahms cycle, they're all incredibly effusive, and the one I posted, the first movement of the 3rd, sounds damn near perfect to me, an ideal interpretation and performance, exactly how it should be played even if some spots aren't exactly right, or at least what I'm used to.
>>124386880you know shit is bad if even hurwitz isn't batting for it, christ.
>>124386848>Bernstein had plenty of juice to pump
>>124386903I'll check it out. I certainly have nothing AGAINST Kertesz
>>124386911lol yeah I played a bit of it and it's not great, Hurwitz' review except is right on the money. It is, however, distinctive, so I'll probably give it another go later. In the mean time I'm loving this Kertesz one.>>124386923For sure :p
>>124386865one, because there's no point in voting if the software behind the machines themselves aren't transparent. and two, because it is my belief that political candidates, much like celebrity status individuals, such as conductors, are selected rather than elected through merit or handwork by big moneyed interests who have political agendas.
>>124386935>one, because there's no point in voting if the software behind the machines themselves aren't transparent. the software behind your PC and behind 4chan aren't transparent either, so why use either? the reality is that the vast majority of software used in the world is closed source; if you're that much of a stickler about it, throw your money at richard stallman. >because it is my belief that political candidates, much like celebrity status individuals, such as conductors, are selected rather than elected through merit or handwork by big moneyed interests who have political agendas.the guy who won had less big money behind him than the jeet who lost (lol) though
>>124386971context contains information about why something is posted. my argument isn't against proprietary software. >the guy who won had less big money behind him than the jeet who lost (lol) thoughi have no idea who you're talking about. it's big moneyed interests all the same.
>>124387006>my argument isn't against proprietary software.then why bring it up at all?>i have no idea who you're talking about. it's big moneyed interests all the same.you have no idea who the candidates were in this year’s election? seriously?also, it turns out that running for president is an extraordinarily expensive affair that requires massive amounts of funding to participate in. who could have known?
>>124387029i already explained to you why it was brought up. one because your statement about voting was fucking retarded, and two, it fit my belief that, like the conductors that take center stage and have their name and disposition attached to products, are selected to be in those positions. no i was unaware that someone running for president was an indian. who cares?
>>124385605Nope, evidently you were talming to yourself.
>>124387061>one because your statement about voting was fucking retardedhow is it retarded to point out that a red vote in a historically blue state will have no impact on the outcome of the electoral vote?>it fit my belief that, like the conductors that take center stage and have their name and disposition attached to products, are selected to be in those positions. literally everyone in a position of power was selected to be in that position by someone else in a position of power, so what's the difference? >no i was unaware that someone running for president was an indian.half indian, and now you know. >who cares?i do, because making fun of indians is funny. and speaking of indians...>>124387083nope, i'm talking to you, illiterate jeet. please do try to keep up, saar.
>>124387108Not really, you evidently referred to yourself.
>>124387116nope, i'm referring to you, illiterate jeet. please do try to keep up, saar.
>>124387108>how is it retarded to point out that a red vote in a historically blue state will have no impact on the outcome of the electoral vote?the software that determines those votes is proprietary meaning that the validity of the outcomes you claim to be true are based off of information we can't validate>so what's the difference? the difference is that individuals who take notice of it can empower themselves to look into and become aware of the interests involved in the created persons before us. to be forewarned is forearmed, or something of another.
>>124387119I'm keeping up perfectly by realizing you were referring to yourself.
>>124387143>the software that determines those votes is proprietary meaning that the validity of the outcomes you claim to be true are based off of information we can't validatewe can't personally validate paper ballots either because we're not the ones counting them and we're reliant on other people to tell us the outcome. are you going to question the outcome of every election unless you're the one personally counting the ballots? >the difference is that individuals who take notice of it can empower themselves to look into and become aware of the interests involved in the created persons before us. to be forewarned is forearmed, or something of another.applies to every other position of power, be it a conductor, a C level executive, or a political official. so what's the difference? >>124387158nope, i'm referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124387181>unless you're the one personally counting the ballotssure i'd go to that extreme but only in big government settings, so federal.>so what's the difference? the difference is that we can become more than collaborators of their propaganda and or advertising
>>124384850Fricsay, Szell, Krips, Markevitch, Klemperer, Busch, Kleiber, Casals
>>124387267>sure i'd go to that extreme but only in big government settings, so federal.then prepare to never trust any federal elections because your schizo ass is never counting the ballots lol>the difference is that we can become more than collaborators of their propaganda and or advertisingi can assure you that riccardo chailly does not need my assistance in securing his 6 figure income, nor does donald trump in swinging all 7 swing states. >>124387275very based
>>124387181Evidently you were not, but I understand your insomniac delusions.
>>124387294you're ignoring valid concerns of proprietary software in order to bolster your position>does not need my assistanceno, but public opinion does matter and you're acting accordingly, or as expected
>>124387318nope, i'm referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124387372>>124387372>>124387372Nowy
>>124387334Your insomniac delusions are showing
>>124387333>you're ignoring valid concerns of proprietary software in order to bolster your positionagain, if your problem is with proprietary software, why are you using a proprietary OS on an imageboard using proprietary software? >no, but public opinion does matterapparently not according to you, since all these positions are being picked in advance by shadowy hands regardless. >you're acting accordingly, or as expectedtell me what patterns you’re spotting in the numbers, schizo. >>124387398afraid not, i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124387491again context matters. my argument is not against proprietary software but against proprietary software used in a matter of voting. this is the second time you've ignored the contextual matter in order to straw man me. i think you're retarded.
>>124387491public opinion is different than the results of something or another. if public opinion did not have to be swayed in agreement with a certain policy or what have you, then we wouldn't have any need for public relations or propaganda. again, i think you're retarded.
>>124387570>but against proprietary software used in a matter of voting.what makes proprietary software not a problem in every aspect of life aside from voting? proprietary software handles everything from your uber eats order to excel spreadsheets at your (or more accurately, not your) job. >>124387577>if public opinion did not have to be swayed in agreement with a certain policy or what have you, then we wouldn't have any need for public relations or propaganda. apparently according to you, we have no need for public relations or propaganda since everything is decided in advance by moneyed interests. how does your schizophrenic worldview account for this?
>>124387595again, within the context, it is concerned with proprietary software in situations of voting. you keep trying to drag that into something else to make a nonsensical point just to feel good about yourself and it's so retarded.>how does your schizophrenic worldview account for this?just because things are decided in advance does not mean that public opinion is in favor of those things. hence, the need for propaganda and public relations. i think you're retarded.
>>124387491Strong insomniac delusions
>>124387618>again, within the context, it is concerned with proprietary software in situations of voting. you still haven't told me what makes voting so special compared to ordering chik-fil-a on doordash or writing a paper in word. >just because things are decided in advance does not mean that public opinion is in favor of those things.why do moneyed interests need to care about public interest again? they're free to do what they want with little to stop the,, according to you. >>124387669afraid not, i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124387822you're asking me the difference between voting in a selection of choices for candidates in an election is different than ordering a meal from a restaurant?>according to youthat is not my position and it never was. public opinion is an essential function of an economy, one that has to be in agreement with the policy roadmap that is advocated for in a particular jurisdiction. i can't believe i had to type that out for you.
>>124387895>you're asking me the difference between voting in a selection of choices for candidates in an election is different than ordering a meal from a restaurant?yes, please explain why proprietary software is acceptable in seemingly every facet of life except for voting. >public opinion is an essential function of an economy, one that has to be in agreement with the policy roadmap that is advocated for in a particular jurisdiction. but the economy is controlled by moneyed interests anyways, so why does public opinion matter there? furthermore, how do you explain the last 3 elections where at least half of public opinion has vehemently been against the candidate that won, regardless of their policies? did the economy magically stop functioning for the last 8 years?
>>124387919im so tired of repeating of myself. i legitimately think you're either retarded or too young.
>>124388030i’m tired of you repeating yourself too, i’m still waiting for you to give me a straight answer on why proprietary software is an issue in specifically voting and in no other facet of life, no matter how simple or complex.
>>124387822Evidently hallucinating from insomnia.
>>124388194afraid not, i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124388135i already gave you a straight answer a long time ago, but you've been stuck like a broken cog unable to comprehend it. if proprietary software is used for a selection of candidates, you cannot validate whether the choice you made was altered or deleted. a meal ordered at a restaurant however can be validated after having received your meal. why does this have to be stated? it's probably because you assume the economy is controlled by moneyed interests.
>>124388302>if proprietary software is used for a selection of candidates, you cannot validate whether the choice you made was altered or deleted.you can’t validate paper ballots either, and you also can’t validate whether or not microsoft word did actually save your 10k word dissertation that’s due tomorrow. so i ask again, what makes voting specifically the exception to the rule?>it's probably because you assume the economy is controlled by moneyed interests.remind me who the economy is controlled by again?
>>124388348>you can’t validate paper ballots eitherwe've been over this and i gave my reasoning on the matter. the proprietary software in the voting machines still needs to be addressed, not sidelined.>you also can’t validate whether or not microsoft word did actually save your 10k word dissertationwhat the shit. of course you can.>remind me who the economy is controlled by again?i never stated that the economy was controlled by moneyed interests. that was you conflating things to make it seem like it was my position. it was similar to what you did here >>124387822
>>124388266Afraid hallucinating still, insomniac.
>>124388410>we've been over this and i gave my reasoning on the matter.you still haven't explained how it's any different from closed source software in any other facet of daily life.>what the shit. of course you can.are you joking or have you never held a job before? i've had hours of work accidentally deleted by software crashes and glitches that i had to redo from scratch, and i've never worked with a single person who hasn't had a similar if not identical experience. software of any sort has bugs and issues that cause it to delete or not save work all the time. >i never stated that the economy was controlled by moneyed interests. which is why i'm asking you to remind me who the economy is controlled by. go on, jog my memory. >>124388418afraid not, i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124388456'fraid not insomniac.
>>124388477i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124388456>you still haven't explained how it's any different from closed source software in any other facet of daily life.software crashes and glitches are not the same thing as manipulating choices within a software. you are absolutely retarded.>which is why i'm asking you to remind me who the economy is controlled by. go on, jog my memory. ...i don't know what point you're trying to make. im sure its retarded, but the answer is the mass of people who live within a jurisdiction.
>>124388494>software crashes and glitches are not the same thing as manipulating choices within a software.if the outcome is the same, what makes it so different? >the mass of people who live within a jurisdiction.so you think the common person is what dictates the economy? then i ask again, what happens in the event that the outcome of the election goes against popular opinion? trump lost the popular vote in 2016, meaning that objectively speaking, popular opinion was against him; does that mean that the economy ceased to function for 4 years out of protest?
>>124388537just because public opinion is in disfavor of certain policies or decision making does not mean that the economy is defunct, that people stop going to work, or that they are no longer participating in the economy by purchasing goods and services. your argument is unbelievably stupid.>if the outcome is the same, what makes it so different? a glitch or a bug in a particular software is not a deliberate attempt at altering or deleting an effort made by an individual. MY argument was not against proprietary software but rather proprietary software used in voting machines, retard.
>>124388493Doubtful, insomniac.
>>124388632>just because public opinion is in disfavor of certain policies or decision making does not mean that the economy is defunct, that people stop going to work, or that they are no longer participating in the economy by purchasing goods and services. so how does the average person exact their control over the economy then? >a glitch or a bug in a particular software is not a deliberate attempt at altering or deleting an effort made by an individual. but the outcome is the same. if a voting machine crashed and all the votes placed in the last hour were wiped on accident, how is that any different from those same votes being deliberately deleted by a malicious individual? >>124388730doubt not, i'm still referring to you, illiterate jeet. please try harder to keep up, saar.
>>124388825>so how does the average person exact their control over the economy then? why do you want to know?>but the outcome is the same.voting machines could crash due to a bug, sure. but that has nothing to do with its software manipulating tallied results.the habit of pulling random, incoherent points of interests into this is unnecessary and serves only to meander around the principle argument. can you or can you not validate whether your vote was actually counted in the way that you voted? the answer is no.
>>124388904>why do you want to know?pure curiosity>the habit of pulling random, incoherent points of interests into this is unnecessary and serves only to meander around the principle argument.the basic point is that software is not infallible, it has never been infallible, and it will never be infallible, regardless of whether or not it’s open source or closed source. so why expect infallibility from voting machines when even microsoft word screws up every now and then?>can you or can you not validate whether your vote was actually counted in the way that you voted?the answer is no regardless of the platform used for voting. there is no practical solution for a process as massive and nationally involved as a federal election.
