.
it just werks
awaiting complete and utter /o/tistic meltdown in 3... 2...
My only real complaint is that most cars with this setup don't come with a special top plate that would allow you to dial in camber and caster. Kind of just a fucking toe and go, have fun.
>>27771602if this is the setup I'm not buying it and I'm not driving it. fuck LEDsfuck automatics
>>27771697you can't drive it anyway since there's no structure connected to a steering rack; it wouldn't be able to steer
>>27771602wish I had SLA front suspension.wouldn't need -3.5 static camber if I had a Double wishbone.
>>27771696you can get whatever kit you want there's fundamentally no way to cope with not having long + short arm design. You can add in your little spacers or top hates but it's all just cope. You will never have dynamic camber gain. You will always get toe-and-go'd at the alignment shop since your car is a rental.
>>27771702busses don't get aligned at a alignment shop they have special shops designed specifically for them
>>27771702>actually wanting camber gain to induce more over steer the harder you load the suspension.
>>27771716>I drive a rental and I'm proud of itkek sure thing buddy, enjoy getting toe-n-go'd for full price
>>27771702I'll take: "what is caster for $500 alex"
>>27771724brother you have 0 tools and have never touched a wrench. It's amazing that I can deduce that from 1 post, isn't it?
>>27771702>why no I don't want to corner with my front suspension fully load because I drive a RWD god machine and not a FWD understeer machine, how could you tellDouble bones fags will continue to seethe about the amount of werking McChads just does.
>>27771602Good enough for me
>>27771740>the amount of werking McChads just does....come back when lmp and f1 cars start running maccas on all 4 you deluded ricer
>>27771696wrenchlet detectedthen install adjustable plates, you going to change to coilovers anyway.
>>27771747>...come back when lmp and f1 cars start running maccas on all 4 you deluded ricercause you can street your Imp and f1 car, stay mad you get gapped on the track by mcdonals happy meals
>>27771747>Why no, I don't drive an LMP or F1 car how could you tell?>Looks like McChads will just werk fine for me then!
>>27771696Its based because you can do the alignment with a tape measure.
>>27771700Why don´t you add more caster instead of static camber? It also seems odd to me that you´re going with zero toe when you´d want some toe in to compensate for the inner tire wear caused by the static camber.
>mctoddler struts
no no wait hold on>mac
>>27771602Haha come on, some one explain it? Is this a meme?
>>27771602I much prefer this one. The type where you just slide the whole "tube" into the spindle makes for a more complicated removal/install - although I do recognize it is better for keeping alignment
>>27772822the meme is that wishbone fags love to shit on mcdonalds struts but mcdonalds strut cars can in fact be faster around gods playground faster than wishbones, but they are so assblassted they keep trying to dunk on mcdonalds but they still get beat by the happy meal
Know why they're called wishbones? Bexuaee you wish you had real suspension instead.Enjoy your chicken wishbones that snap by looking at them wrong lmao
>>27771740>implying double bones must be wrong wheel driveMy RWD god machine has double wishbones on all 4, thank you very much.
>>27773760Your miata is still slow gay floppy chassis shit
>>27773762Post your car
>>27773766
>>27773766>>27773847Mcdonalds and solid rear for both cars but at least they aren't GAY like a miata fag car
>>27773847>literal wagon axlelmoa
>>27773766Which one?
hoes mad
>>27773849Still more successful race car than the miata :^)
>>27773760So then you must know you don't want to be driving around corners with the front suspension fully loaded anyway so mcpherson front just werks
>>27773847Mogged hard by the actually GOOD mazda
>>27774129retard cope, no tools, ricer
>>27774178Oh no no no he didn't say anything about driving experience - you really don't know about loading up the rear when turning do you?
>>27774183stick to discussing infotainment systems and LEDs you faggot ricer.
>>27774194Uh oh little benchy boy doesn't actually drive
dumbass little ricer thinks putting his auto only mcdonalds strutted rental in D is driving LAMO. So fucking stupid
>all these queers in here.Nevermind just posting the best setup
>>27774211poor cope.
Double bones bros we don't actually corner with the front fully loaded in an understeer do we?
^ the absolute state of these crackhead ricers
>>27774211needs traction bar
macpherson bad because ... IT JUST IS OKAY
>MUH CHINEESE CARTOON PORNO GIRL BROkek, stupid ass ricer
>>27773878What did he mean by this? The Miata is literally the most raced car in all of history. The RX-7 memed a couple of championships in the early IMSA days because the rules made no distinction between the nominal displacement of rotaries and piston engines, so it was competing against 1.8L shitboxes.
>>27771602Its schrimple.
>>27774211Came to post this, based GOD setup worshiper.
>>27773847>he thinks his late 70s Mazda isn't just as much of a wet noodle as a miata
>>27774272mcdonalds cope
>>27774251>>27774211>Maccas in the front>leaf springs in the backHANDLING MACHINE
>>27774301my miata literally has wishbones on all 4 what are you on about
>>27771740McDonald’s suck dude
>>27772822McDonald struts are cheap suspension that is commonly used on FWD economy cars because they are inexpensive. In a nutshell, the problem with this suspension type is that as you turn and weight is applied the traction goes down.Race cars and luxury cars use a multipoint suspension set up that allows the car to gain traction as it turns and it also allows for reduced NVH. Basically it’s both more comfortable and handles better. The real heart of the meme is that Porsche uses them on $$240k 911s.
>>27774245He's Australian, the RX7 was quite handy in the Australian Touring Car scene, it won the 1983 championship competing against actual cars. Has the MX-5 ever competed against actual cars and won?
>>27774272It has a roof, it is way less of a noodle than the miats.
>>27774379>McDonald’s suck dude>"because they just do ok">>27774386> the problem with this suspension type is that as you turn and weight is applied the traction goes down.>"the traction goes down because it just does ok!"
>>27774396If only it worked like thatt. slicktop turd gen Camaro owner
>>27774425It does work like thatt. former miata owner
>>27774427post it
>>27774430you first nigger
>>27774447ok faggot now post yours
>>27774451wobbled like a diving board
but what if we put the coil on the control arm
RevoKnuckle.>>27774401>it just does okYes, McPherson strut can't hold straight as weight transfers so the wheel gains positive camber.The harder you work it the more positive the camber.Thus, worse contact patch = less grip.
>>27774456and so does the camaro which does have a roof
>>27771602Light, simple, compact, works bretty gud
>>27771697I have collected all bulbs necessary to do an LED conversion on my 1990 mustang.>Headlights>Fog lights>Tail lights>Marker lights>Instrument cluster lightsWe're not using hand cranks to start our engines anymore because someone invented the starter motor.We're not using acetylene to light our headlights like our great grandfather did because someone devised a mass production process for incandescent bulbs.Why would you continue to use an inferior product or process?Adapt or die.
>>27774484You would still be a newfag, gaped loose Milhouse.STFU LOL
>>27774393>Has the MX-5 ever competed against actual cars and won?Not sure what makes an "actual car," there was never a Mazda works team that raced the Miata so it's all grassroots level stuff. Tons of class wins in Enduro/Autocross/time attack, but you can't get overall wins in those events without a prototype/kart/Evo so the only overall wins are in shitbox racing.
>>27771696eccentrics on the control arm hinges would give you caster and camber adjustments
>>27774245by literal poor fags, where are the real championships? there are none, even in the present, with poor fag racing series, where are the meme-atas? nowhere to be seen. only place a miate wins first place is spec miata, kek
>>27774245Spec racing means literally nothing. It just means a car is cheap and plentiful enough.
>>27774513>the wheel gains positive camber.So does double bones if you set up the geometry wrongProtip: don't set up the geometry wrong
>>27775278>there was never a Mazda works team that raced the Miata so it's all grassroots level stuff. Tons of class winsOh damn bro sounds like the RX7 was a more successful race car then.
>>27775738Not talking about spec racing, but there's a reason there's no spec civic.>>27775770Damn bro, souds like the RX-7 only has class wins in IMSA GTU and nothing else of note.
>>27775777>RX-7 won the entire Australian Touring Car Championshp>"ummm but sweaty some dude in an MX-5 won my local autocross so it's a more successful race car!"
>>27775784>Some ausfalian racing series no one cares about>Look it up>Half the grid gave up two races into the season when they realized the point system gave extra points to displacelets so you could lose every race but still win>The Nissan team was leading in points for the entire season until they boycotted the final race because they were upset that the RX-7 was allowed an engine swap to gain 30 horsepower mid-seasonWow, truly an undefeatable titan of motorsport, how can other models hope to compete with its legacy?
>>27775797Watch the races and you can see the RX7 overtaking V8 racing cars, does the MX5 do that?>but muh local autocross!!!!
>>27775800Oh nonono, viper- and vette-sissies, how could this happen to us?>actual track times, not conefagging
Oh yeah what's the rules framework like for this extremely prestigious racing series?
>>27775812accidentally my reply link >>27775808
>>27775812>>27775821OEM firewall and floor pan must be retained as well as an at least 6" wide strip of sheet metal to each strut tower. Honestly, there's a lot more Miata there than there is RX-7 in the IMSA cars.
>>27775833Cope and Seethe all you want, you get mogged by the RX7 1983 ATCC victory
>>27775836>Remember that one time when someone raced an RX-7 against Nissan and no one else and then Nissan didn't show up to the last race after winning the entire season prior?>Truly the RX-7's greatest hour.
>>27775839As opposed to.......? Your local autocross?
>>27775842>>27775808
>>27774386They are not used because they are cheap, they are used because they are space efficient so in ff cars there's more space for the engine and in porche 911's/boxters there's a bigger front luggage compartment.They could be even more space efficient if they used a torsion bar connected to the bottom arm instead of a spring around the damper, but it's much more difficult to adjust the torsion bar according to the different trims instead of simply swapping in the spring you want.
>>27775860So let me get this straight.... the RX7 has:>1980 British Touring Car Championship >1981 British Touring Car Championship>1983 Australian Touring Car Championship >1981 SPA 24 hoursand the MX5 has:>some crappy grassroots race for highly modified cars that you're too ashamed to even show the name ofAnd you think the MX5 is a more successful race car?
>>27775777There's spec hyundais and kias bro>>27775808>v8 swapped miata
>>27775867Don't bother, he's going to die on that hill. Miatafags are the most autistic fans of any car.
>>27775872I always knew it was miatafags making these mcpherson seethe threads because they have nothing else - their only claim to fame is that their slow gay car has double wishbones all round.
>>27775869It's a turbocharged BP.>>27775867If the RX-7 won two seasons of an actual race series, why have you been coping so hard about that retarded Australian bullshit where they were handed the win because Nissan decided not to show up? Also, Spa 24 Hours is not a race series.>you're too ashamed to even show the name ofGlobal Time Attack
>>27775880>SPA 24 hours isn't a race series so it doesn't count>but this one discount World Time Attack race does count and it's the most prestigious even ever This is your brain on miata copium
>>27775883>but this one It was the season finals, I could post the results of each race of the season if you cared (you don't).>discount World Time Attack race does count and it's the most prestigious even everWTAC is Australian, Emilio is American. GTA is what we have over here. Apparently the W and G are just to sound good, they're not World or Global.
>>27775888Nah they call it "world" because drivers and teams from all over the world go there to compete, much competition in your discount version?
>>27775880>an actual race series In the 80s, ATTC was a prestigious series, with entrants and teams participating globally.You're the one posting some worthless time attack series.Simple fact is the RX7 is a more successful race car. Mazda fielded it globally. Miata is just a spec racing shitter, so I wouldnt even call it a race car really, because it isn't lmao.
>>27775889Uh huh, and Australians win this series every single year because they're just the best racecar builders and drivers in the world? Or because there's barely any people who actually ship their cars over to the middle of fucking nowhere on the other side of the world to compete in one race a year?
>>27775897>In the 80s, ATTC was a prestigious series, with entrants and teams participating globally.Sure, but the only year that the RX-7 won was the year their one competitor (who was squarely in the lead the entire time) quit the season in protest.
>>27775899WTAC is a global event. People ship their cars across the world to participate.Just shut the fuck up you gay little hair dresser dick sucker. Hope your floppy shit chassis rolls over and you head gets rubbed against the asphalt like a soft crayon.
>>27775899>ummm actually there's no competition for WTACSo who was the competition for Emilio's 2018 series? Any factory teams? Was there even any professional drivers?
>>27775901>all the other cars don't count because they just don't >this somehow proves the MX5 which never did anything was more successful The cope never ends
>>27775901Cry all you want, in 1983 the RX7 finished every race on the podium (except for one retirement).Meanwhile the Miata had ZERO support from Mazda for any global racing lmao.
>>27775905>Three Americans, one of which isn't competing>Some bugs that swam over from gookland to compete in the kids' classTruly representative of all the corners of the world.
I think the miatard finally gave up coping
>>27774912incandescent lamp>Perfect CRI>Warm white glow>Can't overheat >Light emitted from one source inside of a glass envelope>Doesnt require any additional electronics to work>No such thing as a non-dimmable incandescent LED>Bad CRI depending on quality of the phosphor coating>Unnatural blue-shifted 6000K color temperature>Requires a driver circuit to operate. Susceptible to damage from extreme heat and heat cycles.>360 degree light requires two diodes opposing each other with a 1mm gap between the two sources>When the driver circuit begins failing, the LEDs will flicker and strobe>Not usually dimmable, usually too bright for instrument cluster use.The LED is a clearly inferior product. Yes, it has a few advantages, but the quality control of them is hit or miss so until they are regulated, they are junk. The incandescent lamp has been around for centuries, it will continue to always be simple, predictable, and reliable.
>>27771602why do busriders seethe so hard at this effective and simple suspension design?
>>27776065because it sucks
>>27776065Bragging about how their suspension is better on paper is all they have bro
>>27776068>IT JUST DOES OK
>>27776074>ACTUALLY MY COST CUT AND OBJECTIVELY INFERIOR MACPHERSON SUSPENSION IS GOOD.... BECAUSE IT JUST IS, OK????
>>27776065>whyno gain and cheap as FUCK. It's literally the mark of a rental car.
>>27776078>it just werks because it does, in fact, just werkThat is correct, yes.
>>27776089>It's literally the mark of a racing cars more successful than the miataFtfy
>>27776102>his standards are so low that "just working" is enoughSorry I expect more out of my car than "it technically works"
>>27776078the problem you have is that mcdonalds suspension cars keep mogging your wishbonesthe cope is real.
>>27776133>just werks enough to win races>his car doesn't win racesHeh
>>27776138>muh 0-60KWAB
>>27771602double bones or multilink are better but the camaro ZL1 and mustang GT350 prove you can make a track monster with struts if you do your homework
>>27776141the cope just keeps coming
>>27776143Ah yes it's the new Camaro and Mustang that prove McChads can work, not the 40 years of mcpherson strut racing cars which preceded.... thankyou for your useless contribution zoomie.
>>27776145>no u!!!!your suspension sucks, cope
>>27776160>because it just does ok
>>27776163
>>27776160stay assblassted, while McChads lap you
>>27776172see>>27776160
>>27776166>starts positive and barely goes negativeUmmm bro your got the geometry on that wrong>double bones curve accelerates with travelLiterally the opposite of what you want which is why they replaced semi trailing single wishbone IRS
>>27776149you would only use strut suspension on a race car if it was based on a road car with a strut suspension (e.g. stock cars and touring cars)open wheel and prototype race cars have always used double wishbone or even more advanced suspension designs
>>27776179>what is droopthat graph shows both suspension types starting at -0.5 deg camber at ride height
>>27776179Anon you WANT your wheel to go negative. Camber is never a static value it changes based on the weight on the tire/wheel.What the graph shows is McFailson can't hold angle and allows the tire to push outward as load increases, taking the ideal grip contact from centerline.DW on the reverse, hold the wheel a lot better and allows it to follow the road surface.This is important during turns, because the inner wheel is the primary loaded wheel and needs to curve in (negative camber) to follow the road relative to the chassis forces.McPherson can be engineered around,>REVOKNUCKLE <<<<<<and>compact, close placement with extremely stiff mounting/bushingsBut it's still a functional compromise.
>>27776243Hahaha what so that's setup to gain LITERALLY ZERO camber from compression?NIGGA JUST SET IT UP TO GAIN CAMBER LIKE NIGGA RUN THE CONTROL ARM AT THE RIGHT ANGLE HAHA
>>27776271>thinks he's enlightened>is actually too stupid to understand what he's replying toDunning kruger in full effectSemi trailing IRS gains camber on compression anon, why was it replaced with double wishbone and multi-link?
>>27776292Dipshit you don't want a system that is always perfectly -3 degree camber, that hurts your braking and acceleration.You WANT a system that reacts dynamically to the load applied.But you want that system to push farther negative the harder the load is, for optimal turn grip.>>27776297you're fucking dumb it's ok, I'm ok with it, but you're fucking dumb.
>>27776300>doesn't understand the word "GAIN">"Your dumb because... YOU JUST AR OK?"
>>27776302you're fucking dumb it's ok, I'm ok with it, but you're fucking dumb
>>27776304>you just are okok dunning-kruger
>>27776305>dunning krugersays the person who can't understand the decades and wealth of information at his fingertips, a mere 5 word search away
>>27776308You think I don't understand it because you're a brainlet thinking Mcpherson can't gain camber on compression
>>27776292you can't just "set up" a mcpherson strut to gain camber on compression, that's the whole pointyou can add static camber but too much static camber will hurt you in straight line braking and acceleration
>>27776313YES YOU CAN RETARD AHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAdouble bones enthusiasts once again proving themselves to be the absolute dumbest most clueless retards on the board>b-b-b-but I watched an engineering explain video once! I'm an expert!
>>27776315>>27776310again you're too fucking stupid to understand the chart the anon posted, you're not seeing McPherson "hold" camber you're seeing it lose camber as load progresses, which is the opposite of good performance.You wouldn't happen to be brown by any chance, Hmm?
>>27776324>muh chart muh chartOh look I fixed your gay chart, yes this is literally what happens when you run your control at the right angle.>inb4 you continue to have zero clue what I mean by control arm angle because you're a brainlet
>>277763281a) I assume you're just a dogshit trollAnswer: Commit suicide you useless, spineless, shit spewing retard1b) I assume you're actually, truly stupidAnswer: READ SOME FUCKING BOOKS NIGGER
>>27776332Yep the world's smartest double bones enthusiast doesn't even understand control arm angles.>b-b-b-but I read a book and it told me mcpherson can't gain camberPICTURE IT IN YOUR MIND YOU FUCKING BRAINLET AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH
Camber gain on compression is important, that's why drifters all run mcpherson set-ups. Even in cars that have double bones they often switch to mcpherson set-ups if possible (skyline to silvia suspension as an example).
>>27776336You can't even understand why a vehicle needs more negative camber as it turns harder, why are you still talking? You're as dumb as the guy who is trying to say camber gain is good because muh dorifto.
>>27776339Drifters go around a corner with the front completely unloaded and the wheels pointing the wrong direction you idiot, they run mcpherson for reasons around lock and castor
Cars with McPherson suspension handle best using the Go-Kart Theory of Suspension Design: Any suspension can work, if you don't let it.Travel is the enemy of McPherson suspension geometry.The arm is somewhere near level when the suspension is at rest (ideally the arm should be hanging down from the car, but if the car's designer really didn't give a damn what he was doing, it might even be pointing up, which will give you a backwards camber curve!).Beyond a certain point away from the level position, the camber curve of a McPherson strut will go flat (camber stops changing) or even reverse itself. This is bad.So to keep the suspension in the butterzone you need to limit suspension travel (i.e. hard suspension).Longer control arms aren't a good option because that would mean even less camber gain.So in summary, things that can ruin McPherson suspension are long travel and level/upward control arm angles at rest. Things that make it handle well are short travel and downward control arm angles at rest.Also the fact that most of the good-handling cars with MacPherson suspensions are lightweight little cars is no coincedence. It's a case of awesome + lame = pretty good.
>>27776342>You can't even understand why a vehicle needs more negative camber as it turns hardeYou only say that because you're such a brainlet you still think Mcpherson can't gain camber on compressionbecause you literally can't picture it in your head or somethingyou must be so fucking stupid if you can't even do that
I never in my life have seen a McDiddle car that didn't need 6+ degrees of positive caster to have a marginally decent camber curve.The compromises of making a McPherson vehicle work correctly in racing are tires that can't handle 100% all out race speed as long as other suspension types.
>>27776345There is no McPherson suspension that gains camber with increased load. None. The chart posted above shows this.You need to go back to the 2nd grade and start over anon, you let yourself grow up to be a dumb motherfucker.
>>27776347>positive camber
>>27776344For any reasonable mcpherson setup you need to compress it a LONG WAY before it starts going positive.The reason mcpherson has been so successful on the front for such a long time is because>A) for a RWD car you don't want to turn with your front suspension fully compressed anyway>B) if you ARE loading your front suspension up a lot, you're probably in a tight turn using lots of steering angle, in which case the castor will add lots of camber anywayIt just werks.
>>27776348Oh do you think "gaining camber" means having a non-linear curve? Is that where your confusion comes from?You just keep getting stupider.
>>27776349>anon doesn't know the difference between camber and caster
>>27776347So...... what's the problem with running lots of castor?
Ladies and Gentlemen, this thread is a stunning proof of the results of importing people with avg IQs near 90 into society.>>27776355>a LONG WAYYour suspension travels as much as 2 inches during a maximal speed turn. That's 30+mm. It's "the extreme" example of camber curve graphs.You're fucking dumb.>>27776357Yes, camber gain means a non linear curve. If the suspension camber is holding steady as deflection/load increases, you are going positive relative to the tire's contact with the road.That is exactly what it means.Everyone post your fucking hands. Post the skin.
>>27776364>Yes, camber gain means a non linear curveNO IT DOESN'T YOU BRAINLETCAMBER GAIN = when the suspension compresses, more camber is addedYOU ARE SO DUMB I CAN'T EVEN CONVERSE WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SUSPENSION TERMS
>>27776370Fuck you, you god damned sub-100IQ Highschool Debate Club wishywashy useless dipshit.Yeah I messed up and said "non linear" when I meant "Yes linear camber gain is ideal"Fuck you, brownoid N.Can you rotate the apple in your mind? Whjat features does it have? Explain the taste to me.How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?How does a non-linear camber curve relate to reduced road>tire ideal contact? I want you to visualize it. See it.you 86IQ brazilian monkey, you sub saharan bushman, you god damn troglodyte.Fuck you.
>>27776364No worries buddy mcpherson won't go positive from 2 inches of travel lol
>>27776377what flavor of brown are you/are you descended from
>>27776375Lmao what are you even talking about nowYou're cooked m8, you don't know your arse from your elbow when it comes to suspension
>>27776379Not an argument
>>27776343Not every drift car is set-up to drive with the rear wheels...
>>27776384Oh it's part of the argument. Gonna be a lot less pain if you're honest. I'm insane, I've turned into a fucking madman because I've had enough of people's shit. What flavor of brown are you descended from, anon?protip, (I'm spelling this out for you): All I care about is honest answers to my questions. If you're honest nobody gets hurt.>>27776381this guy's just being full of shit because he think's I'm too stupid to see a troll, for example.He thinks I'm "too autistic" to spot bullshit behavior, because he has low IQ. etc.Just answer my questions.Post in store prices and the madness ends, as we say on /pol/ canada grocery threads.
>>27776393>so cooked he can't even talk about suspension anymore, just the brown people in his head Just double bones things
>>27776396Makes no sense that people behave so adversarily and trollish, probably 80% of the reason people "go crazy" and shoot up randos.modern tech is wild, city block wifi denial with autotracking low freq POV drones capable of carrying 2Kg of problem causers, things can even be routed through the 4G cell networks and VPN'd across foreign VPS', problem causers of a household variety to solve problems of a social sort. All kinds of crazy shit. Uncle Ted was right - the internet shouldn't have been given to the mass public. The internet shouldn't even have been invented in my opinion. A savvy person can concoct a dozen ways to solve problem causers with no evidence. Kinda wild that dipshits turn their entire life into "trolling" and never grow up from it. Just imagine a dog who thinks its funny to always attack cats and children for no reason but amusement, what do we do to those?In any case, McP susp is dogshit for all the reasons explained and more.A flat camber curve means the opposite of negative camber gain, it means going positive on the tire contact surface as load incrases.
>>27776408>A flat camber curve means the opposite of negative camber gain, it means going positive on the tire contact surface as load incrases.Did that sentence make sense in your head? Because you're not using those terms correctly.Gaining camber simply means gaining camber, the rate at which it gains camber and whether that rate increases is another thing entirely.Mcpherson gains camber on compression.
>>27776415The topic is clearly 2 Std.Dev's above what you're capable of understanding.Line up against the wall, anon, you're useless.
>>27776418As we already covered earlier, and you admitted, you are actually just too stupid to use terms correctly.
>>27776424you're gay nigger lmao, go drink bleach
>>27776415>you're not using those terms correctly.he is thoughever>Mcpherson gains camber on compression.you have yet to supply any proof if this besides sperging out and calling people nigger
>>27776427Not an argument
>>27776429I shouldn't have to explain something that anyone with a brain should be able to picture in their head and know to be true.Do you want me to put little labels on this picture also? Like I'm explaining what the lines mean to a toddler?
>>27776433correct, it's an assertion.you're actually learning something! wowmy will to murder has diminished, slightly.
>>27776436no the problem is you're confused by context (which is a very bad failure of a person's internal semantics), as much as I distaste qualifying you a real person because you don't deserve it.you've been confused by "gaining (negative) camber", "gaining camber", and "a flat response results in a real gain (positive) of camber as load increases"
>>27776440As you can see in that picture the Mcpherson strut gains negative camber for an enormous range of travel
>>27776436your image shows that as the strut compresses it will translate vertically and horizontally with little change in the effective angle of the knuckle
>>27776447See how the little black line goes further out than the little red line? That's camber gain my little brainlet friend
>>27776445go to school or read some books. May I suggest starting with a "classic" that is still used in automotive engineering college level?https://www.amazon.com/Chassis-Engineering-Building-Performance-Handling/dp/1557880557
>>27776453>but my book told me it doesn't gain camber so I'll ignore the actual suspension diagram which shows camber gainBased dunning kruger
Anons how the fuck does an illiterate person post text in the internet?I have a 126 IQ and can't figure that one out.He can't read, and refuses to, but can still communicate?It makes no sense.
>angles how do they work?>I can't picture them in my mind, I need to read a book by someone telling me what happensSad
>>27776444Those are some weak looking coilovers Why is the shock body so smallWhy are the springs such a retarded shape Where's the top hat?
>>27776476Just cheap shit that re-uses the stock top hat by the looks, probably for BMW scrubs by the look of the clamp bottom end
>>27776478>>27776476Retards.
>>27776483Buy some real suspension Better yet buy a real car nit some plasticshit maccatrash turkmobile
>>27776485kek retard, that's for double swiss bonez, baby
>>27776271Revoknuckle doesn´t change camber gain in any way. What it does change is steering geometry, namely reducing scrub radius (minimizing torque steer and steering axis inclination (minimizing positive camber when turning the wheel).In fact i would say the KPI is the biggest disadvantage of the macpherson strut and the reason some cars, like subarus, need massive amounts of static negative camber to compensate for the loss when turning. Just for reference, a subaru impreza might have 5 degrees of caster and 13º 20´ of SAI, meaning that the outside wheel at best gets half a degree of negative camber when it turns 20 degrees, when it would have nearly 2 degrees of negative camber if SAI was vertical instead.
>>27776527>need massive amounts of static negative camber to compensate for the loss when turning.Or just like.... caster?
>>27776527It's funny looking at this image and seeing the big gap they left between the wheel and the strut>can we reduce the scrub radius by simply putting a higher offset wheel on?>NO! We must overcomplicate the strut design instead!
>>27776536It's for direct comparison, you'd understand this if you were smarter than a chimp.
>>27776542It's still funnyAnd if you had a brain you'd know you could offset that strut more if you wanted to.
>>27776531Indeed, you could regain the outside wheel negative camber by keeping the SAI and bumping the caster to 8º, but if you do that the inner wheel is reaching about 4,5 º of positive camber which is good but might be too much - so you'd still need about 2 degrees of static negative camber to even them out.
>>27776550Sounds like it just werks
>>27776553Which is why i suggested it to anon >>27771700>>27772769
>>27771602>Rubber mountedugh
>>27776556Yeah 3.5 neg is a fair bit for what must be just about factory castor
>>27776065idk mang, pseuds who read a book once now think their hot shit.they should probably go back to bench racing.
>>27776543*IF I WANTED TO*I could weld new frame pieces into place woth redrilled mount holes to change the susp geometry, fill everything woth 90dA poly, set my alignment to +6.78 positive caster, -2.4 camber, on -0.11 inch toe and have an absolute track weapon.Do you even know what grades of steel and what type of welding is ideal for frame piece replacement?How about calculating "corrective" geometry for remounting?No you dont know shit, you're a nolife 14 year old fishing for answers by "trolling" because you're a fat useless dumb fuck.Question: does MY car apply to yours?Question: do MY methods apply to your needs?Question: How does a given loaded wheel weight affect shock/strut loading, damper settings, coil strength, bumpstop height AND strength, and scrub radius for a given car?
>>27776588Ummm bruz we're talking about what the manufacturer could easily do when they design a new car rather than change the strut design.Are you okay?
>>27776594Ur fukken useless m8.
>>27776646Yeah righto m8
No bones == no buyFuck rentals Fuck automaticsFuck LEDs
methhead
>>27776271okay but WHAT IF we took that control arm and moved it's mounting point all the way to the other side of the vehicle.that would give you all the camber you need in turns AND a nice, comfy ride.Pic related, it's God's independent front suspension.
>>27771602ah yes the most kino suspension
>>27776678Only needed if you want shitloads of suspension travel, which is why it's only used for off-road type vehicles with shitloads of suspension travel.As you can see here >>27776436 conventional mcpherson design will function quite nicely for a more than reasonable range of suspension travel.
>>27776666>because..... WELL JUST BECAUSE OKAY????
>>27776738lol you KNOW youre a ricer
>>27776741>maybe if I just call him a ricer I can pretend I won the argument and I won't have to do anymore of that technical talk about suspension geometry which I have no idea aboutbased bones enthusiast
>>27776743>technical talkthe only technical aspect you're remotely qualified to talk about is the TV screen and the led lighting. Dumbass ricer.
>>27776760>it's ok I called him a ricer again, no one will notice that I can't actually explain why McChads is bad
>>27776766>MUH REACTION GIRL BROdumbass fucking ricer, wrenchlet
>>27776769
>YOURE NOT TREATING ME LIKE A PERSON OKAY YOU HAVE TO TALK TO ME!!
>>27776777checked, are you the cali crackhead with the blue led angel eyes temu build?
i don't know what a temu is you damn methhead
Say my name.
ricer
ricelet
>Mcpherson bad mmkay>don't make me explain why, you know I hate explaining things
Meh I'm gonna take a nap
>ITS NOT TEMU ITS AMAZON
got this fucking ricer triple posting kek
Kek got this ricelet octuple posting
>when the bones enthusiasts realise they have no fucking idea how suspension actually works and give up arguing with you
A guy gets so assblasted about being a poorfag Mcdonalds DD owner like most of the rest of us that he chainposts incessantly.You love to see the mental breakdowns, really do.
>>27771602too advanced
>when you btfo them so hard they won't even link you in their non-replies
youre not btfoing shit with your faggot cartoon pictures kek, dumbass ricer, wrenchlet
Stop arguing, and remember that guys who drive cars with suspension that a man from the middle ages would recognise are having more fun than you anyway
>more posts>no more (You)s>they've all given up
Great for passenger cars.
>>27776736What do you mean, it's been under road-only vehicles since dirt was new.
>>27777027What like load carrying vehicles which are internet to have an extremely large range of suspension travel or something?
>>27772769it looks like he already added over 1 degree of caster angle from what the stock setting was
>>27777030The stock front end doesn't have that much travel. Maybe 6". MAYBE.It really is more for giving a comfortable ride while being strong.
>>27776447There is negative camber gain on bump as long as the bottom arm is on a acute angle (less than 90°) with the strut. Once the bottom arm does an angle over 90° with the strut, it starts losing negative camber on bump.
This is from a comparison between mazda 626 struts and mazda 6 double wishbones.
>>27777643WRONGIt still gains camber after the arm goes above 90, see >>27776436(unless you mount your strut at the wrong angle)
>>27777654Now do it with caster and the amount of steering you'd be using to achieve that roll angle
>>27774484mercedes?
>Well well, look at the city slickers pulling up with their fancy suspensions
>>27777664Double wishbone also has increased camber gain from caster.
>>27777679So?Does Mcpherson get enough with caster or doesn't it? Because it isn't just a case of "more camber gain = more better"
>>27777678*wears out your unis*heh.... nothing personnel, kid.
>>27777643Nice roll center you've got there lmao
>>27777685>Does Mcpherson get enough with caster or doesn't it?It doesn't, so you have to compensate by either limiting the fuck out of your suspension or running a ton of static camber.
>>27777697(it does) ((if it doesn't all you have to do is change the angle of your strut))
>>27777658The angle of the suspension arm with the strut, not the angle of the suspension arm with the vertical. The image >>27776436 shows that quite well.>>27777664Using the maths in here, >>27776527>>27776550, the double wishbone gives as much negative camber (-2) when it hits the bump stop as 20° of steering angle with 8° of caster and 13,3° SAI, and the difference with the struts is just -1°.
>>27777706(it has plenty of camber gain)(except it doesn't have enough camber gain so you have to run an excess of static camber)Mactoddler cope is unreal.
>>27777707change the angles until you get the camber gain you want broit just werks
>>27777714NO NO STATIC CAMBER YOU BRAINLETTHE ANGLE OF THE STRUTOnce again, double bones enthusiasts are dunning-kruger incarnate.
>>27777718>just run 360 degrees of caster bro>it'll turn your mcdonalds strut shitbox into a racecar bro
>>27777722>THE ANGLE OF THE STRUTCHANGING THE ANGLE OF THE STRUT IS HOW YOU SET YOUR CAMBER, GENIUS
>>27777724you also have KPI and lower control arm angle and length at your disposalwhich is why it just werks
>>27777694That's your problem instead of the incredibly short bottom arm for a mcpherson strut? It's obviously for demonstrations purposes.But does point out the hidden problem with camber gain, the more camber gain you have the higher the roll centre, so if you have too much of it the car starts jacking up instead of rolling.
>>27777730>he doesn't know when they design the strut they can set the KPI independent of the angle of static camber
>>27777735Obviously I'm not complaining about the short control arm because obviously it's just to make a point. But the angle of the control arm is the source of the camber gain in McStruts, and the reason why they can't be set up to have sufficient camber gain to not need large amounts of static camber like wishbones.
>>27777740>JUST CHANGE THE ANGLE OF YOUR STRUT>NO, NOT THAT ANGLE, THE OTHER ANGLECope and seethe.
>>27776852But I’m the turbo owner and I havnt even posted yet
>>27777755>he was too stupid to understandbased bones enthusiasts
>>27777740stupid ricer, there's no point in just maxing out your static camber it's a fucking cope. You look pathetic with your faggot top hats and spacers. Here's an idea. Get a real car, quit driving rentals.
>>27777766>static camberI'm not talking about static camber you dunning-kruger>angles how do they work?>I cannot picture how changing the angle of the strut will effect camber gain because I'm a literal brainlet
>>27777758>Says some dumb shit and then gets mad when people don't read his mindDon't worry, someday you'll grow up, mactoddler.
>>27777777
>>27777770>too stupid to understand camber gain is adjustable>"MCPHERSON DOESN'T GET ENOUGH CAMBER GAIN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE">"WHAT DO YOU MEAN JUST CHANGE THE ANGLE OF THE STRUT???"Hey it's ok kid, you're one of the less retarded bones enthusiasts ITT. Some of those posts up there are so stupid thought Mcpherson couldn't gain camber at all.
>>27777781>I can have as much camber gain as I want!>I just have to ruin my roll center to get it!Congratulations, I guess. I'll just be over here, not ruining my roll center.
>>27777796no leaning your strut over doesn't ruin the roll center brainlet
>>27777768>cannot picture how changing the angle of the strut will effect camber gainThere isn't any lol, fuck McDonald's. Every single car that has maccas is a clown car/ rental. Literally not a single good or interesting car with McDonald's and you simp for the shit daily kek.
>>27777803>absolute non-post from someone too stupid to follow the technical discussionmiss me with that thankyou
>>27777751The angle of the bottom arm isn't the actual limitation given the driveshafts can change length quite a bit. The real problem is the mounting point of the strut; if you incline it inwards to maximize camber, you not only lose all the width and space efficiency of the strut design but you also lose a lot of negative camber gain from the excessive sai. It's also a lot more difficult to add a lot of caster by leaning the strut backwards because it's a load bearing point and it starts to intrude into the passenger compartment.But constraints are not everything, the interesting part is how you deal with them.
>>27777802>I'll just run 45 degrees of KPI to get the camber gain I need, surely this will have no effect on my roll center
>>27777714kek, so deluded. It's because in their country (India), you have to have a BMW or Mercedes (#1 suppliers of McDonald's cars) to have any chance at reproducing. Essentially you have to worship rentals and when someone does not worship rentals they're seen as bizarre.
>>27777807That is correct, as you already know, strut angle is not a considered factor when calculating roll centre.Hope this helps!
>>27777805bro the only technical aspect you're remotely qualified to discuss is the TV screen and LED lighting. Everything else is off limits you no tools ricer clown
>>27777824>another non plostAnon please, we're trying to have adult discussions here about suspension dynamics.
>>27772822It's the same guy who posts about maccydonalds constantly and then argues about it with everyone
>>27777832>no you see the reason I can't prove you wrong is because if I did you wouldn't understand it anyway so that's why I won't but I could if I wanted toheh.... we're back to this cope again are we?How long before you won't even link my posts anymore again?
>>27777833>we're trying to discuss suspension dynamicsHow, you got no tools, never even touched a screwdriver, and now you wanna discuss suspension dynamics. fucking lel dude how about we discuss your favorite temu LED glue on spoiler you retarded ricer.
>>27777842uh oh he's back to the risitas postingnon-linking replies in 3...2...
>>27777840>How long before you won't even link my posts anymore agaiLol I know you hate that shit fucking desperate ass ricer clown. Nobody discusses anything with you since you're a subhuman clown ricer with no tools.
>>27777827Okay, remind me how roll center is determined with McDonald's struts?
>>27774484Id rather travel further by leaning it.
>>27777858>my auto only mcdonalds strutted egg car for racing!!!!kek
>>27777852hmm let me just checknope no input for strut angle
>>27777863Don't hate the player, hate the game.
>>27777884hey hear me out, alfa romeo has NEVER ever in their entire history made a good or interesting car. They got close once but the hood was too low and there wasnt enough fake vents, plus they couldnt put maccas on all 4, the cheapest suspension possible, so they cancelled it. Entire history, not a single good car. its amazing honestly.
>>27777724The car i know of with the most caster is the citroen 2cv and derivatives, because the trailing arm suspension changes the caster angle along it's travel. So they ended up with about 0° on full droop, 15° when level and over 25° on the bump stops, which makes for a very lively steering feel, if somewhat heavy for a non power assisted car...
>>27777882You certainly must be correct, but please refresh my memory. What are the inputs for determining RC with McDonald's struts?
>>27777906This is why one day, I'll put an Alfa transaxle and dedion into an Opel GT along with a rotary engine, and the double wishbone+horsecart leaf spring front suspension from a C4 Corvette. I'll also try to find a Citroen to steal the avocado dampers off of. It will be the holy grail of autism.
>>27777882Try again using >>27777694 as the example of how to do it.
I sure am glad that my premium priced vehicle has a premium suspension setup to match. I can't imagine paying premium prices for a car with the cheapest suspensions option available.
>>27778112Says the ineos grenadier buyer reconsidering his life choices.
>>27778118Irrelevant to my premium vehicle and its premium suspension, faggot
>>27778095>He finally looked it uplol, lmao even
>>27778118t. Took out a loan for a POORsche NARP
itt: McChads watching all the wishbone enjoyers seethe while they are getting gapped.
>>27775874>double wishbones all roundNot since the NC, every day you come here just to get btfo'd you must be a glutton for punishment.
>>27776783THOSE ARE STOCK BI-XENONS BRO I'D KNOW I BOUGHT THAT BMW IN 2011 AS A 3 YEAR OLD.
>>27778245>mcChads It’s objectively worse in every way but cost
>>27778230>went to a BHPH lot just to ride off in Tyrone's sloppy 5ths
>>27778261cant hear you, im in first place.
