I've never seen a valid argument against free will.
Good for you
>>472852505Could you make a conscious choice to be sexually attracted to men, or are you programmed like a machine to like women? If that is programming, how much of everything else about you is just stock programming?
>>472852833>Could you make a conscious choice to be sexually attracted to menNo.>are you programmed like a machine to like women?No.What bearing does it have on free will, anyway?
Free will could be an illusion, a projection of your subconscious
>>472852505Demonstrate a will free from casue and effect
>>472852910>projection>subconsciousdefine using only a 100% deterministic framework
>>472853149Prove that "cause and effect" is real and then define "free will" prove that one contradicts the other.
>>472852505your brain is a sum of mathematical equations, chemical reactions, physical laws and how your culture and people in your surrounding influence(d) it.so is brain of everyone else, therefore everything you and everyone else ever thought, felt or did was decided from the start
>>472853454not saged btw
>>472852833>this one specific non-action isn’t free will>therefore, there is no free willIdiot
if physics applies to a baseball, it applies to your brain is the core argument for determinism (strict causality, otherwise known as "fate")there are other theories that allow for randomness, but a Universal RNG is a probability generator, not a "will" generatorso as much as it feels like you're making choices, the onus is on you to prove that choice making is occurring, not on determinists to suggest otherwise with countless physics experiments and inventions that rely on a deterministic universe to function.FWIW I believe in a soul and I expend a great deal of effort trying to make the "right choice" but I still cant really prove that I'm actually doing that rather than watching some sort of movie of a guy locked to a specific fate with the illusion of choice so that he doesn't go insane.
>>472853698So in other words you get to make limited choices based on what's available.
>>472852891>What bearing does it have on free will, anyway?It means your will is based on cause and effect
>>472853454>your brain is a sum of mathematical equations, chemical reactions, physical laws and how your culture and people in your surrounding influence(d) it.Proof?
Quantum mechanics is a huge blessing.
>>472853292>Prove that "cause and effect"You just did nu replying to me
>>472852505In order to have freewill you have to think. Thinking is done autonomously by the brain. There's no freewill, it's an illusion.
>>472853835No, it doesn't, but also your premise was false. Can you fail harder?
Cope for unhappy people who don’t want to take responsibility. More interestingly consider the opposite extreme; I understood it through Schopenhauer but will quote BAP who summarized it elegantly:>„Some think this view [unity of body and mind] absolves you of your responsibility for your acts. But actually you’re responsible for much more than your acts. That which is said to constrain or determine you biologically is actually what you are. It does restrain your acts according to its inherent ways of desiring and acting, but you are this it, and it decided to be, so actually you are responsible for much more, you’re responsible for what you are. You are responsible for the good and bad things that happen to you, for any accident or disease you might experience! Actually it was all going to happen to you just the way it did at the moment of your birth or conception and even before, at the moment your parents had a glint for each other in the eye. There is fundamentally no difference between you and that glint.”In other words “you” and “your life” are a manifestation of an idea, a greater plan, in Schopenhauer’s language a gradation of the will’s objectification
>>472853843Your ability to type in English
>>472853889When the old thread died I removed the filter and saw that you replied to me several dozen times after I filtered you. You are legit mentally ill. ID goes to the filter now. Do it again, you broken automaton.
>>472853816No, in other words the choice itself is an illusion. Whatever you think you chose is no more your choice than an apple decided to fall from a tree rather than continue to hang on the branch.Whatever happened is what *had* to happen in all cases. All time is a linear cause and event chain, and all imaginings of alternative outcomes are simply hallucinations of the pattern recognition brain of a monkey who tries to extrapolate future events from past information -- purely hallucinatory.
>>472853907>No, it doesn'tOK, so why don't you fuck men?
>>472853843>grass is green>>proof?
>>472853891>In order to have freewill you have to think.>Thinking is done autonomously by the brain.Ok. Suppose this is true.>There's no freewill,This doesn't logically follow from your premises. You failed.
>>472853958>Do it again, you broken automatonAnd here you are replying to me again, based on cause and effect.
>>472853994So you have no proof of your claims. At least you admit it. Adding your flag to the filter now since Poles are always subhuman posters.
>>472852505It literally doesn't exist because time doesn't exist. All things simply ARE in their entirety. You are a book already written from front to back. You're just reading it one page at a time. There are no should haves or would haves and theres no such thing as choice. Anything you THINK you are choosing is simply what you already did or ARE doing or have done. Your entire life and everything you will EVER do has already happened and is currently happening just as much as it will happen.
>>472853292You have proven it yourself in the last thread where i easily altered your subconscious thought processes, subjugated your so called free will and set you up for a butthurt loop, you did exactly what i wanted you to do
>>472854109>Adding your flag to the filter nowYou need to go back to r/eddit
>>472854052>This doesn't logically follow from your premises. You failed.Yes it does. The thought came from your brain not from "you", as "you" are your thoughts, which came from your brain.In order to have free will you would need to be able to generate and construct entire thoughts on your own, including which parts of your brain you use to construct that thought.You cannot willingly decide which parts of your brain construct your thoughts. You cannot willingly decide which collection of neurons in your neural network fired in order to make that thought happen.
>>472854109>prove to me what is obvious or I will blacklist youbye then you faggot, your subhuman brain was predetermined to do that as a coping mechanism any way
>>472852505I'm a compatibilist.
>>472852505Freewill and determinism are compatible. People are just limited by their hardware (intellect and ingenuity). Genetics play a substantial role in the decisions you make but it’s not an end all be all.
>>472853698You can't prove that consciousness is not a will generator. It's important to keep an open mind in this area.
Robert knows some interesting things.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv38taDUpwQ
>>472854300>Yes it does.Show it, then.>In order to have free will you would need to be able to generate and construct entire thoughts on your ownWhy? What does this babble even mean?
>>472854414>You can't prove that consciousness is not a will generator. It's important to keep an open mind in this area.Correct. You can't prove that consciousness is not a wave form of energy generated by stars and we're all just meat puppets doing a stage play for inanimate hydrogen fusion factories.Lots of things can't be proven. But macro classical newtonian physics works and everything subatomic is theoretical, so for the time being as far as we can tell, we aren't making choices.Maybe the stars are though, who knows.
>>472854498>Why? What does this babble even mean?If you have no control over how the thought is generated, then you didn't will it to happen. It happened because of biological precursors that set that thought in motion.
>>472854454>Robert knows some interesting things.Yes, things like trannies having "female brains", like intelligence being heritable not meaning that intelligence is genetic, like twin studies not proving anything, like all behavior being biological but all nigger behavior being caused by racism, and other things that a LITERAL KIKE THAT HE IS would be expected to "know".
>>472854624>If you have no control over how the thought is generated, then you didn't will it to happen. "Control over how a thought is generated"? What does this babble mean? And how does it relate to free will?
>>472852505we do not have free will but we do have freedom of choiceI cannot change who I am but I can act on it or not
>>472854680what a hot take faggot. What he actually says correlates with pol saying niggers are gonna nigger. He just can't say it like that, but he says it's all biological precursors and some people need to be separated from society (niggers).
>>472854752>What does this babble mean?That your will isn't free but based on the biological processes on how your brain handles cause and effect.
>>472854578>macro classical newtonian physics worksThen surely you have tons of examples using it to predict behavior. Oh, you actually don't?
>>472854752>And how does it relate to free will?A thought happens in your brain, it's a biological action like regrowing your hair or scar tissue.Try willing your fingernails to grow faster or slower and see how you get on faggot.
>>472852505Read Peter Van Inwagen, faggot>1. Every moment is the direct result of the moment which immediately precedes it, combined with the laws of physics>2. You cannot change the past>3. You cannot change the laws of physics>C. You cannot change the present or futureQED
>>472854776>he's a kiked and he has traditional kiked opinions about everything>but it doesn't count when he agrees with my particular kiked opinion
>>472853976Well then, when will humanities ability to make poor choices be removed so that we won't suffer?
>>472854872>A thought happens in your brainProof? Also, you didn't explain what it means to "control how thoughts are created", nor explained how it relates to free will.
>>472854891>1. Every moment is the direct result of the moment which immediately precedes it, combined with the laws of physicsProof? I mean, nevermind proving this insane statement, start by proving that there are "moments" that "precede" each other.
>>472854965>>A thought happens in your brain>Proof?You thought to reply when reading his reply. A brain processed that choice
prepare for a Godtier post, humbly hahahahaso basically, you can ironically will yourself out of free will, you are free to not be freebut hahaha thats you, not me, I choose to be, I amnobody can take that away, this is the meaning of being a "Free man"you "progres" dont understand, slavery is a self imposed stateyou need to actively be free willfully constantly, this is what being a "free man" means, its doesnt mean having land, it doesnt mean being royaltybeing free means you choose to be, you make your willThis is why its easy to become a tyrant, to fall for the path of SatanBecause we Free Men are LITERAL INCARNATIONS OF GOD!!!!but we are not tyrants, we are Christ, we are servantsyou can choose to be slave lol, I dont care, I would advice you not to be cattle, but thats your choicet. God Emperor of Earth, Secret Illuminati world ruler
>>472854872>Try willing your fingernails to grow fasterJust eat more biotin and chicken broth and put oil on them.
>>472855013>>1. Every moment is the direct result of the moment which immediately precedes it, combined with the laws of physics>Proof?You making a choice to reply to his thread
>>472855013It is self-evident, hence why no philosophers disagree with it. You just cannot see this, because you have the IQ of the average transnistrian
>>472855013>start by proving that there are "moments" that "precede" each other.You replying to his reply. You making a thread and then people replying
>>472855130>It is self-evidentSo no proof for your premises and no logic that leads to your conclusion. Concession accepted.
>>472852833Is that technically an aspect of free-will though? I don't think so. Free will is about actions and what you would do, not what you would or will not feel.Given your logic, if I can't change the speed of light or gravity to be less or more is that somehow a lack of "free will" because I simply "don't want" to be visible or want to weight more/less?>b-but that's Physics not Psychology...okay and? Why can't I just free will that too? Oh because it's out of my control.
>>472855198>So no proof for your premisesYour continued involvement ITT is the proof
>>472855199>Free will is about actions and what you would doDemonstrate an action free from cause and effect
>>472855198>muh no sourceDo you know how philosophy works?
>>472854802>learns about free will>oh so I can CHOOSE>no, you can't>can choose A or B to eat today>A came to mind first but I want to have choice, eat B instead>that's what would have happened anywaysit's simultaneously edgy and gay while being deep at the same time
>>472855400You tell me to flip a coin, should I? Will I? Why or why not?Either I do it, or I do not. Do you think somehow this is pre-calculated and that my decision in my head is not original?
>"Free" will>will Is not in fact free by definition Use better terminology and this autism will end
>>472855453Free will isn't about the ability to make a choice but why. And the why is causality
>>472855420>Do you know how philosophy works?Sure. You start by defining things and making sound arguments. Go ahead and do that to demonstrate that there are some discrete "moments" that follow each other in a sequence.
>>472855551>Why or why not?Exactly. Choice is based on cause and effect
>>472852505Can you shoot lasers out of your eyes? Stupid fucking dipshit.
>>472855618>You start by defining things and making sound argumentsWhen that happens you claim to filter their ID
>>472853986evolution
>>472855618>Go ahead and do that to demonstrate that there are some discrete "moments" that follow each other in a sequence.You made a thread for replies and you reply In the thread you made
>>472852505causality and consequence mean that free will doesn't exist, not that you can wrap your head around that, and it's probably for the best that you DON'T because doing so will probably cause you to fly off the handle and do some retarded ass shit
>>472855781And what does evolution do for you in this context?
>>472855896>causality and consequence mean that free will doesn't existProve that "causality" is real then show how it contradicts free will.
>>472854816yeah they're called trading bots, crime statistics systems, weather models (not human behavior but a prediction of physics none the less)...we have lots of prediction tools. turns out the bottleneck is data and computing power to do the math of systems acting on systems recursively.
>>472853149faggot
>>472855654Perhaps, but lack of free will means that I don't choose anything related to actually doing or how it is done.The entire thing branches into a ton of choices.>do I tell you to fuck off and not flip the coin>do I flip the coin and roll my eyes>do I flip the coin aggressively towards your chest>do I flip the coin behind me and say pick it up faggot>do I flip the coin in my hand and say happy now?>do I flip the coin as high as I can?>do I flip the coin at an angle intentionally?the list goes on and on, I don't see how you could say somehow the universe has pre-ordained this simply because "i dont have free will"now I do agree with cause and effect but it doesn't somehow cancel out free will. imagine I decide to flip the coin behind me on the side of the street, and some homeless bum goes to run after it as it rolls down the road and someone else almost hits him while driving and has to slam brakes, and gets rear-ended by the person behind them because they're not paying attention on their phone.now this is all cause and effect, but everyone involved had choices. the homeless person could have not cared about it, or paid attention better, the first driver could have just hit him or swerved around him, and the other person could have been paying attention while driving. they all chose those things.
>>472852505Well I don't know who this Will is, I agree it looks awfully uncomfortable in that head shaped prison (how does he even sleep or go to the bathroom??) BUT maybe he did something to earn that punishment...Someone made extreme efforts to lock him up in such a weird cage, either he's up to something or his captors are up to something
>>472855958>Prove that "causality" is realHis reply which caused you to reply >then show how it contradicts free will.You didn't freely decide to reply, you needed his reply to tailor your reply to his
>>472853454you also forgot about metacognition.
>>472855618Read Hume
>>472855958>prove that if a then byeah, you are literally incapable of understanding the fundamental basis of formal logic, and again, that's for the best
>>472855999>trading bots, crime statistics systems, weather modelsNone of these use Newtonian physics to predict individual behavior. You sound like you suffer from some kind of delusional illness.
>>472856036More boohooing in this thread too?>>472856052>The entire thing branches into a ton of choicesBased on consequences desired aka effects
>>472856113>ummm sweaty my argument is just heckin' educate yourself ok??So you have absolutely nothing, as predicted. Thanks for playing.
These dumbasses arguing yet they still cannot shoot lasers out of their eyes
>>472853907No, he's right. Your "free will" to result in a choice is limited by this:>your hard-wired preference>your experiences in life>your limited awareness of all possible optionsBasically, it's just a really complicated set of logic gates which you mistake as free will, but you're essentially just an unwitting slave to your brain, none of which is actually controlled by you.
>>472855688actually we can
>>472856117Formal logic posits abstract rules. It doesn't prove anything about the nature of reality.
>>472852505Most humans in civilization were not born to be free and were slaves or practically slaves in society. Before civilization, they were slaves to the many gods they invented and "fate". The human mind is prone to groupthink and is easily influenced by deceivers. "Free will" can exist, but takes effort and is not just "being free" and being able to buy and shoot guns. It's about who has real power and control over your society.
>>472856255Proof?
>>472856252Exactly this
>>472852505How about you explain what free will even is first?
>>472856252That's a bunch of statements none of which you can prove.
>>472856215you dont believe in causation nigger, there's not much i can do to convince an ultimate skeptic.>how can free will exist if i'm actually just a brain in a vat kek
>>472856084and he had to reply because the consequence of not replying would be him not getting the last word in the argument and thus me "winning" it, which he can't have because he has to believe in the fairytale of free will otherwise the consequence of that would be to go crazy because then it would be all "nothing matters" on an endless negative feedback loop in his neurons
>>472856354You just proved it again
>>472856121You sound like you're arguing in bad faith and have run into an IQ wallDo you want to predict individual behavior within a probability or with certainty? If certainty, you'll need a data set comprised of every atom in the universe with it's movement vector, probably over a reasonable snapshot of time and a computer that can process all that information that itself is contained within the universe and who's atoms are part of the model it is using to predict the individuals next action from.If you want to do probability and you are willing to forgo some external variables by reducing the participants choices down to a binary choice you can use data from their previous choices to make a guess better than a coin flip. Google uses this to decide how to sell ad inventory for your user ID for instance.
>>472856416You nailed it anon
>>472856352>How about you explain what free will even is first?Why should I? It's your problem if you're so ass-burned about it that you feel a compulsion to try to "refute" it. Go ahead, provide a sensible definition and a sound argument.
>>472856190Yes, possibilities based on the actions taken by other people and animals. You are suggesting that every action that will be taken is already calculated by the universe because if it is just all cause and effect then life is on rails.I could jerk off right now into my keyboard suddenly because "well that's what was going to happen anyways".
>>472856354We can prove it, though.>babies inherently have preferences for toys when given a selection to choose from, showing preference is innate>people are always impacted by their experiences in life, this is without question a fact of reality>you don't know everything
>>472854248you sound gay
>>472856354Cause and effect governs everything in the universe including your brain
>>472856371>you dont believe in causation niggerI didn't argue anything about causation one way or another.
>>472856354>brain surgery>computers reading thoughts and dreams>stimulating brains to help limbs move>magnets to change opinions>brain damage to change personalityIt's all biological precursors.
>>472856546>Cause and effect governs everything in the universe including your brainProve this statement then show how your beliefs follow logically from it.
>>472856431>Do you want to predict individual behavior within a probability or with certainty?Your premise requires certainty.>, you'll need a data set comprised of every atom in the universeNot my problem that proof of your metaphysical fantasies relies on fundamentally impossible premises.
>>472856510you've already been rigorous proofs many times over, you are just too stubborn to accept them and too stupid to understand them, which is why you NEED to have this illusion, you aren't mentally strong enough to withstand the reality of the situation
>>472856541>Yes, possibilities based on the actions taken by other people and animalsSure and yourself too>You are suggesting that every action that will be taken is already calculated by the universe because if it is just all cause and effect then life is on rails.No? I'm stating that having the ability to understand how impactuful your choices are, will then give you real freedom to make better choices to produce better environments to make better choices that ultimately produce better consequences
>>472856543>>472856571You just made a bunch of random assertions. This is a consistent pattern with you: any time someone challenges the last set of random assertions, you vomit a pile of new ones, never approaching any coherent line of reasoning, let alone a sound logical argument from premises to conclusion.
>>472852505There is no free will. Everything is predetermined. You not believing everything is predetermined itself is predetermined. You making this thread was predetermined and me replying to it was predetermined based on the sum of variables that have caused our existence and personalities to be shaped the exact way they are for this exact moment to happen.
>>472855958Are you demanding a proof for the principle of sufficient reason? Ok, fine, I actually like absurdist comedy: can you give me a proof for your right to demand a proof? Let’s go in circles forever like this; if you can’t do philosophy then at least with some effort you could make an amusing farce of it
>>472856510I'm not refuting anything because I don't know what you're talking about. You say there's such a thing as free will, tell me what it is and how it works.
>>472856541>I could jerk off right now into my keyboard suddenlyWhich both has reasons and outcomes aka causes and effects
>>472852505You mean you've never allowed yourself to recognize one. Unless you're blind, of course.Give me a proof that your silly little "free will" superstition is real. One that works without faith aka baseless assumptions. You can't prove it. Free will is like god. An illusion made up by smart men so they can enslave stupid men.
The really cool thing is that if you present your brain with information it "might" be able to use it regardless of what you think of your own abilities.When you read something like maths over and over and you suddenly "get it", that's your brain creating a new set of neural networks that is. Pretty neat.
>>472856791>I'm not refuting anythingNo problem, fren. Then there's nothing for you to do ITT. > You say there's such a thing as free will,Uh oh. Are you off your meds again? I said no such thing.
Understanding the illusion of free will is a filter that OP simply cannot get past.
>>472856769>You just made a bunch of random assertions.No, I didn't. They're not random at all, and I fully backed them up.>This is a consistent pattern with youYou're confusing me with someone else. Are you colourblind?
>>472856673If you want to predict an individual's behavior in a controlled environment you simply need all the atoms and vectors in that environment, it's just useless cause you'd have to keep them in a controlled environment which would give you data that may be useless outside of the vacuum.why are you obsessed with using physics to predict human behaviors, and how do you think that relates to your free will? do you suppose that free will is the reason that computers can't predict your next move even though computers can increasingly predict more and more of data-generous users next moves with increasingly high certainty?
>>472856887This is a very disingenuous person
>>472852505That's because you're lying.
>120+ posts>0 attempts at a sound argumentMaybe the proper application of reason requires free will and these bots don't have it?
>>472856306 emission theory was haste-fully discarted, but it will come back when we finally understand quantum realityquantum emission awareness
>>472856985>I claim to filter IDs when i.cant refute
>>472856306
>>472856949>If you want to predict an individual's behavior in a controlled environment you simply need all the atoms and vectors in that environment,Ok, call me back when your theoretical fantasies produce empirical support for your metaphysical beliefs.
>>472856985I already gave you one here >>472856252 and here >>472856543 but you've not actually engaged with it, you've just said "nuh uh" like you didn't understand it.
>>472856306.
>>472856769ok maybe I'm not a pro 4chan debater like you are, but really the premise is on you to prove free will exists. I'm merely giving you some reasons as to why it doesn't.I can't 100% prove free will exists or what even constitutes free will from your perspective. You need to explain what free will is and then prove you can perform a test to observe it.
>>472857120That's just a pile of assertions. None of them are proven and there is no logic provided to show how they necessarily lead to your conclusion.
>>4728563060
>>472856985Argument against what? You still haven't explained what free will is.
>>472857208>I'm merely giving you some reasons as to why it doesn't.No, you just shit out assertions you can't back up, while failing to show how they lead to your conclusion.
>>4728563061
>>472857092Alright well let me know when you figure out where your will is stored. I'd love to measure it.
>>472857242Not my problem. Since you explicitly stated that you are not refuting anything, I'm just gonna add your ID to the filter now because your irrelevant spam is tedious.
>>472856545want to hook up?:3
oh my gosh guys we have figured out the mechanics by which people exercise their free will. so its disproven becuase we know how you make choices. omg guys my free will cant satiate my every need and whim instantaeniously. omg guys the only acausal thing doesnt exist free will deboonked. omg guys it actually takes effort to be a ceo of a fortune 500 company free will doesnt exist becuase im a lazy cunt and you reply to bait threads. omg guys free will doesnt exist becuase the world is an illusion of suffering. omg guys free will doesnt exist becuase im a huge fat faggot. like geez youre still replying to this thread that must mean free will doesnt exist. omg i just read in this book that free will doesnt existjust pack it up. launch the nukes. just murder your neighbirs then fuck their bloddy corpses. morals dont exist they are a figment of your imagination.
>>472857283I can't back up that strokes change peoples personality?I can't back up that we can read thoughts and translate them to moving a cursor on a computer screen?Do you live under a rock?
>>472852505Niggers? And nigger or naco attitude?
>>472857236No, you can't keep just shrugging off actual arguments by claiming they're a "pile of assertions". You need to refute the argument made, why are you so incapable of doing so? Look, I'll make it really easy for you and hold your hand through this:People have preferences, yes or no?
>>472857313>>472854248still waiting for a counterproof
>>472857283how utterly ironic, that's exactly what you've done by making this thread, define free will and then prove it exists
>>472856985If your jewish "god" is omnipotent, the creator, and all-loving, that means he knows what every single thing he creates is going to do before he creates them, as he cannot hide knowledge from himself. Thus, by irrefutable logic, he creates people to do everything that they do in life. Free will defeated. Let's go further: That also means he creates a portion of the population to be evil, so they can spread misery and he can torture them forever (in a place invented by Greek Hellenic Polytheists and not jews... it's complicated). Thus, by irrefutable logic, he is not "all-loving".Abrahamism defeated.Now, was that so hard? Also, I appreciate you dropping the cringe crusader flag for once in your slide threads. Now we can all see you're a gyppo.
>>472857305So you have no actual argument against free will besides metaphysical fantasies about what would happen if you could magically measure ever atom (without interacting with it, presumably) and feed it into a some cosmic hyper-computer with a perfect physical model.
In order to prove free will you need to prove that someone has acted in a way that is completely and utterly dependent of their biology.Can you understand that and why that's impossible?
>>472857383>shrugging off actual argumentsYou never made one. An actual argument consists of provably true premises and a chain of reasoning taking you to the conclusion.
>>472857313This is great op. It's funny watching people larp that they totally got you. Thanks.
>>472857325retard, just because free will doesn't exist doesn't mean nothing matters, in fact it is LITERALLY the exact fucking opposite, things only matter BECAUSE free will doesn't exist, things only matter BECAUSE causality and consequence makes things matter, the stupidest motherfuckers yap the fucking loudest, fuck off
>>472857523>In order to prove free will you need to prove that someone has acted in a way that is completely and utterly dependent of their biology.Why?
>>472857537I'll repeat just to really confirm how much of a disingenuous faggot you're being:People have preferences, yes or no?
>>472857383This is what he does in these slide threads. He asks a question, gets immediately BTFO, and then gaslights the whole thread pretending he either didn't understand the answer or that the answer was somehow wrong, without elaborating. If other people notice the answer and comment on it, making a response absolutely required, he just ignores the answer and replies to other people.
>>472857323yes
>>472857463The argument is that there is no reason to believe that physics which is repeatable and understandable for an apple would be any different than physics occurring in an animal, or in this case, human. That no matter how special and smart the human thinks he is -- he's still bound by the same rules as everything else, and so is probably exhibiting a (albeit very elaborate) causal effect chain of uncontrolled behaviors determined by his understanding of the environment.There's no reason to assume free will exists when you can show that force = mass * acceleration and launch a rocket across an ocean. It's on you to give a reason why it is real, there's nothing ostensibly metaphysical about apples and rockets or assuming that rabbits, crocodiles, and humans also use the same rules as everything else in this world.
>>472857544Nothing like sitting back and relaxing as a bunch of tards trip over themselves trying to "prove" their baseless and unprovable beliefs. :^)
>>472857544I am providing sacred secret knowledge and you plebs don't even care, you used to only know this in the highest positions of power, I bring plebs light and you scoff on itI guess the Reptilians might be right about humanity
>>472857704>People have preferences, yes or no?Sure.
>>472852505It’s simple, when I see a nice butt I must coom
>>472857613If the biology created the thought, then it was not willed in to being, it happened through cause and effect of physical qualities of the brain and environment.We know if someone has part of their brain damaged it changes their personality. This is literally known.You can get drunk or take drugs or starve and your thoughts and decisions change. It's testable that your thoughts change based on biological factors.
>>472857737>The argument is that there is no reason to believe that physics which is repeatable and understandable for an apple would be any different than physics occurring in an animal, or in this case, human.But you have not even gotten as far as empirically demonstrating causality, let alone full-blown determinism, for an apple, let alone a human.
>>472857788Then you've done all the work for me and proved free will doesn't exist. I know you probably don't even understand how you did by admitting that, but at least the rest of the thread knows.
>>472857707yeah, it's pure pilpul, he's a fucking jew on a moldovan vpn, this is EXACTLY what hitler wrote about in mein kampf>gradually, i began to hate them
>>472857599omg guys is causecand effect. i love jerking it off to conditionals. debate me more baby. stoke my sophistry. play with my dripping rhetoric. call me daddy becuase you have no free will becuase everything matters. literallyliterallyliterally.
>>472857297>>472857237>>472857185>>472857081>>472857027>>472855078this is top level stuff, if you dont take advantage of this information, you are a fucking retard
>>472857845>If the biology created the thought, then it was not willed in to beingSo what?>it happened through cause and effect of physical qualities of the brain and environment.Proof?>We know if someone has part of their brain damaged it changes their personalitySo what?
>>472857860>But you have not even gotten as far as empirically demonstrating causalityYou just demonstrated it. His reply caused you to reply. You even quot3d the reply oh his you're replying to. That's causality
I will say no morekeep on plebgoymaxxing
>>472857907this
>>472857907seethe cope and sit on your dreidel, malachai
>>472857946>>it happened through cause and effect of physical qualities of the brain and environment.>Proof?You making a thread for replies
>>472857882>you have preferences therefore ummm... hurrrr uhhh no free will b-b-b-because i said soNice argument. Is there a name for this form? Argument from Mental Illness, maybe?
>>472857786
>>472857946sub 80 IQ right here. Everyone below this post is getting trolled.
>>472858000omg im debating a jew free will doesnt exist a jew is talking to me onlineno free willthere was sure a cause to this effect. omg guys im about to bust my nut.
>>472858067It's okay, we got him to admit free-will is an illusion now. >>472857788
>>472857788yeah. i prefer first person shooters but sometimes I'll choose to play an rpg with my free will
>>472857325>>472857907This is what happens when people her their feelings hurt in the previous thread
>>472858067Notice how you are unable to form coherent arguments or back up your claims when questioned.
>>472858127>we got himAnd here the plebbitor shows its true face, updooting his ass buddies to establish a fake social consensus and soothe its asshurt. :^)
>>472858099>this is what kikes think a "debate" is
>>472858142omg guys i hurt this guys feelings no free willit just doesnt blip into existance without a cause no free will
>>472858131Based free will practicer. Gaming builds up all kinds of life skills.
>>472853149will without cause and effect isn't will at all. why would you will anything? will implies cause and effectbut if you want some useless choices and useless free will then here some of bit, answer this question :46 or green?You can go back on your choice at anytime and the choice isn't locked ever.
>>472857208Here’s the thing though - the scientific method is only a few hundred years old and only works against the material universe. You and I both know that asking someone to prove the existence of consciousness, or God, or free will, or of the objective existence of suffering, are all fool’s errands. The idea that something only exists if it is measurable and provable against a material hypothesis is bonkers - it is an incredibly recent idea on the scale of human civilisation, let alone the human race. Asking if you can prove the existence of free will using measurement is fundamentally as stupid as asking if we can prove that we live in a simulation.
>>472858238omg i need to call him a jew to win. hes using same juvenile bullshit tactics no free will he was determined to do thid. he was always determined to do this. he must be driven by jewish demons surely not free will becuase that doesnt exist but atleast jews do
>>472858275>You can go back on your choice at anytime and the choice isn't locked ever.>any time>units of time>discrete choicesbro that's just trillions and trillions of discrete determinist navel gazing moments in the brain, not one single quantum choice
>>472858256i think im gonna choose to play elden ring dlc later. not sure though, i might just choose to do something else instead. it's nice that i get to decide.
>>472858319>Here’s the thing though - the scientific method is only a few hundred years old and only works against the material universe.It did work AGAINST the material universe, with the outcome being the refutation of that imaginary universe and the death of materialism over a hundred years ago when modern physics was getting established.
>>472858405how would you answer this question if you were god and had total free will?
>>472858356>juvenile bullshit tactics
>>472856252>>472855896That's quite a tranny argument>hurrrrr our Will is interested in preferences and preferences are caused by casualty therefore free will no realFree Will doesn't care about causalties, it exist independently of the noumenal world, it just tries to adapt. The Will itself IS the strife of the Spirit, therefore Free Will means you're Free to follow your Will you fucking retarded faggots. Without spiritual preferences that the Spirit follow, and material conversion in to sensible defined ideas, your whole existence would be meaningless, especially from the point of Consciousness itself. I mean, you atheistniggers are still better than christkikes, but for the love of "god" please be better.
>>472852505The biggest argument against free will is an individual's behavior
>>472858472But I did eat breakfast
>>472858479omg guys look at this meme. this clearly means free will doesnt exist
>>472858555Uh huh, like the biggest argument against white supremacy is nigger behavior.
>Debate this thing I'll refuse to define and filter you if you ask me to.What a thread.
>>472857313LmfaoI just love how triggered free willers get when you ask them to define free will.
>>472858493>it just tries to adapt"it" trying to adapt means causality determines its behavior and tailors it to favored consequences aka outcomes
>>472858208>And here the plebbitor shows its true faceSays the guy who claims to filter IDs when he can't argue against them
>>472858646what a caused causefree will must not exist then if we cant define it.
>>472858246Demonstrate a will free from cause and effect. You couldn't in the other thread amd you still.cant now >>472858275>will without cause and effect isn't will at allExactly
>>472858057hahahah i am joking about the reptilians btwdont really care either, just taking the opportunity to have fun and spread the word >>472858067>>472858127>>472858275>>472858356who is for what here now?just smoke weed idk
>>472858493That's not the argument being made, though. The argument is that if you're already pre-programmed to choose something over something else, are conditioned throughout your life for certain choices, and are metaphysically limited in your choices by time/location/information, then how is that "free" at all? You get to "choose" the path of least resistance that fits the neurons formed because that's how you're wired. It's like water flowing downstream, it doesn't choose to suddenly go back up the mountain, it can't. It's stuck always taking the path of least resistance.
The midwit thinks something isn't real because he named through bunch of hieroglyps and syllabes the process of how csomething comes to be, and he suddenly feels smart and removed all the magic out the miracle, thinking he understands the truth of the process because of the name he gave to it, as if naming gave understanding or canceled the result of said process>trees are not real, they just grow from seeds, genetics and water+1 ego point for the midwit !
omg guys i just gave an operational definition of free will that makes it impossible to exist in any conceivable universe. free will doesnt exist becuase i know what free will looks like even though it doesnt exist.
>>472855896if free will doesn't exist then moral choice doesn't existif moral choice doesn't exist, there man cannot be immoralif immorality doesn't exist, then me correctively raping you until you admit free will exists isn't wrongby this method, all determinists are now pro free will.
>>472852505If you had free will, you would be able to see the valid arguments against it.
>>472858654>free willers >lol you really don't think people have the ability to act at their own discretion? >what a free willer clownthe absolute state of NPCs
>>472858775>free will must not exist then if we cant define itClearly you can't define and are only replying to other replies. Meaning they caused you to reply
omg guys i just made a huge assumption based on theory of mind and applied it to my research. free will doesnt exist.
>things only exist if you can measure themJust wait until you learn about quantum physics. OP is retarded.
>>472858586my favorite thing to do is piss off kikes like youthe cause of this preference is all the millenia of crimes the kikes have committed against the white race, the consequence (so far) of your kike crimes is me making you seethe right nowthe consequence of your seetheposts, which i have caused, is me smiling right now
>>472858908you really think*
>>472858812omg guys free will doesnt equal free energy so free will doesnt exist.
>>472858867>>472858911Demonstrate a will free from cause and a effect
>>472858900I'm at two weeks of nofap
>>472858871>if free will doesn't exist then moral choice doesn't existwrong. it's the exact opposite
>>472858871I know there's only 15 or 16 true determinists on Earth but that's still a significant amount of raping to eradicate the philosophy. What happens when you die? Who will rape future determinists in your stead to maintain the institutions of Free Will?
>>472858900heeey you actually touched a good pointdoubting free will, proves free willdubito ergo sum
>>472858909oh yeah baby i loved your based and twink like understanding of cause and effect. im almost there bby. talk more about cause and effect my lack of free will is making me cum loads to cause and effect.
>>472858863>you're already pre-programmed to choose something over something elseProof?>you have fucking preferences!That doesn't mean you're prearranged to choose anything. Preferences are just one factor.
>>472852505You will do what your free will commands you whether you like it or not
>>472859121>can't refute I know thats why you put on an act instead of actually arguing.
>>472858945omg guys i want to pwn the kikesfree will doesnt exist. omg we have kikes instead of free will how could this be?
>>472859121oh, you didn't know? if your action has an effect then you didn't will it. i learned this in free will 101
>>472859132>>you're already pre-programmed to choose something over something else>Proof?You deciding to reply ITT instead of doing something else
>>472859139>billions must freely choose, disregarding of all causality or consequences
>>472858654free will just means you can choose to act however you want, it doesn't mean you can choose what you want, because if you could, then you wouldn't want anything at allit is under partial influence, thus not completely free, but it doesn't mean you have 0 control eitheryou can kys right now for 0 reason so obviously genetics are not ruling you, you just don't xant to because you think you can have some good times from staying alive and you enjoy good times, which does undermine free willsome people kys despite knowing they could stay alive and have good times. people can choose pain or refuse dopamine willingly
>>472858968more bbyim so closetell me more about cause and effect. better yet tell me the same thing about cause and effecti fucking love it when you talk cause and effect becuase i have no free will
>>472859248>if your action has an effect then you didn't will itWhy did you make the action to begin with?
>>472852505Everything you are is a product of your genetics and upbringing. You don't choose where you're born, you don't choose your parents, you don't choose your sex, you don't choose whether or not you're defective or gifted, whether you're abused or spoiled or raised with care, etc. And the people who brought you into this world didn't choose, and the people before them, so on and so on. It's a big chain of dominoes stretching back to the beginning of life in the universe. Whether or not you grow up to be a death row inmate or a billionaire is completely out of your control. The concept that people have free will is kind of like karma, it's a nice idea that people want to believe in because the alternative is upsetting. Humans hate the idea of an unfair, random world.
>>472858968>>Demonstrate that you can move around if time is frozen>heh, you can’t? then this means you can’t move lolStupid argument.
>>472858968Free will is about information complexity (aka entropy), not cause and effect.
>>472859308>tell me more about cause and effectYou just proved it again. Thanks :^)
>>472858865>they didn't respond because i spoke the truthas usual
>>472859341>Everything you are is a product of your genetics and upbringing.Proof?
>>472859195omg guys i pwned this guy becuase hes replying to my bullshit mcguffin about cause and effect. give me your phd thesis on cause and effect i cant hold back much longer bby.
>>472859341you are an only child arent you?really easy to tell
>>472858908How about this then, try to do something for absolutely no reason and post the results.
>>472859132Sorry, you're already out of the race after you admitted free-will doesn't exist here >>472857788
anyone know what the conseqquences of taking the vaccine are?did the people who took it know what the consequences were?had they known would they have taken it?since causality doesn't exist then why are people who took the vaccine suddenly dying everywhere?what caused them to take the vaccine?what was the consequence that was the sword of damocles hung over their heads that caused them to take it?
>>472859347Nice strawman. Come back when younhave an actual rebuttal >>472859377>Free will is about information complexityGive an example that excludes cause and effect
Can't exist in a deterministic world.Your "decisions" are made based on external stimuli and your brains calculations.You have as much free will as a calculator.
>>472859329sometimes because i chose to, whether it be for my benefit, someone else's benefit, to challenge myself, because i want to see what happens, etc. not an argument against the existence of free will
>>472859440>becuase hes replyingCause and effect strikes again :^)
>>472853149>>>/wsg/5603422
>>472859377To be fair it's more about humans inability to process complexity beyond certain limitations (i.e. the thing that makes games with spheres fun).If only we had something smarter than us that could help.
>>472859379omg i have no free will becuase cause and effdct. youre replies cause my effect of replying back which causes you to reply but the onus is on me becuase free will doesnt exist
>>472859341you dont choose you cards but you choose what to do with them in the realm of your knowledgejust because you run on limited knowledge doesnt cancel the freedom you have inside the knowledge you have, as you re not all knowing, but you are not completely ignorant eitheryou re thinking in absolutes like the midwit you are. bow before my intellectual might>t's a nice idea that people want to believe in because the alternative is upsetting.Just say that you get an ego kick from pretending that you understand it all so you srttle with your current opinion as the ultimate one
>>472859476>you're already pre-programmed to choose something over something elseProof?>you have fucking preferences!That doesn't mean you're prearranged to choose anything. Preferences are just one factor.
when you grow up with siblings, you get to see free will in actionmaybe being an only child is kind of a disability
>>472859537>To be fair it's more about humans inability to process complexity beyond certain limitations Proof?
>>472859454ok. or maybe i won't. I haven't decided yet
>>472859494omg your brain is just a computer. your mind is just a terminak for the user no free will.
>>472859026We must form a determinist-rape guild, so that father can pass down the craft to his sons. Together, we can maintain the sanctity of free will forever.
>>472859516>because i chose to, whether it be for my benefit, someone else's benefitA cause >because i want to see what happens, etc?And effect >not an argument against the existence of free willYour will is based on cause and effect. Your "free will" extends just as long as a slaves chains
>>472859494wrong. i have no compulsion to do what is optimized and i just choose to do so with my own accordin fact i make wrong moves knowingly all the fucking times
answer sincerelyhow many of you "there is no free will" people, are "only child"s ?
>>472859602Repeat it all you like, but you're done here >>472857788
>>472859674why does cause and effect disprove free will?
>>472859577>omg i have no free will becuase cause and effdctAnd here I go causing you to reply again :^)
>>472859530cause and effect exists so no free willbut free will wouldnt exist in a a causal universe so no free will. ahh hes replying to my replies which causes me to reply. no free will.
>>472852505We do what we will but cannot will what we will.
>>472852505Free will doesn't exist because God exists.Everything you've ever done is a cause and effect chain reaction that started long long before your birth.Otherwise God could be omniscient and say what will happen in the future.
>>472859289>you can kys right now for 0 reasonHow?
>>472859494>Can't exist in a deterministic world.Prove that determinism is true.>Your "decisions" are made based on external stimuli and your brains calculations.Prove this claim.
I think there is direct correlation between this free will debate bullshit, and being an only childpeople with siblings dont even debate free will
>>472859670it is very much not a computer, all the midwits are waking up when they get access to a few bits of knowledge, shut the fuck up already and get a slave job
>>472859727Define free will
>>472859757>We do what we will but cannot will what we will.Proof?
>>472859729he still chose to.
>>472852891>Town rapist IQ
>>472859729you clearly have a mastery of cause and effect. i applaud your dick sucking skills faggot.
>>472859818the ability to act at ones own discretion
>>472859600>you dont choose you cards but you choose what to do with them in the realm of your knowledgewhat you choose to do with them is determined by your preferences, which were caused by your past experiences (and genetics), and the consequences of what will happen when you make your choice>i have to take a shit, because causality doesn't exist and the food i ate earlier isn't coming out my ass right now>because i have free will i will shit the bed instead of the toilet and face no consequences>why does my bed suddenly smell like shit? oh well, at least i have free will
>>472859831Because I caused him too. Free will isn't hinged on the ability to make a choice but why the choice is made and th3 consequences that inevitably happen regardless
>>472859727Effectively, it means that you don't have control over all the causes in your life, which means you end up with effects you had no say in, which ultimately shapes how you behave. Compound them over the course of someone's life, and "free will" ends up as an illusion of infinitely complex causes creating your free will as the effect.
Faggots, I thing therefor I am. //end of>captcha YGAY
>>472859875But your discretion is based on a series of choices lead by cause and effect
>>472859341Nobody who believes in free will believes that you have free will in the past or future, bozo, the past and future is obviously out of your control. Why should this mean that you don’t have control in the present?>brain is in a particular state in the present caused by actions in the pastAnd? That doesn’t prove anything.
>>4728597075 siblings, go fuck yourself, retard
>>472859903he caused himself to by choosing to do it. you weren't the determining factor of his action.
>>472859843>you clearly have a mastery of cause and effectI have a mastery if making you reply. Watch this: You will either reply to this again or you won't. Let's see your freedom now :^)
>>472859655I guess... I don't have any proof. I just like playing pool and find sphere-physics games to be entertaining. Do you enjoy football?
>>472859916you don't choose everything you do =\= you can't choose anything you do
>>472860009>he caused himself to by choosing to do it.He wouldn't have if I didn't reply . That's why his reply is tailored to my response
>>472859842You are seething with rage, meanwhile every objective fact about my life shows that I am more intelligent that 99.99% of the niggers in your country.
>>472859901you re just talking about acquiring knowledge, you re not debunking what is said. knowledge is not set in stone, you can learn and you can forget>>i have to take a shit, because causality doesn't exist and the food i ate earlier isn't coming out my ass right nowyou re mistaking being able to choose and omnipotence. also you can shit yourself instead of going to the toilets, if you really want to, some people do it actually
>>472860103>meanwhile every objective fact about my life shows that I am more intelligent that 99.99% of the niggers in your countryIf that were true then you wouldn't need to filter IDs supposedly
>>472859966>your discretion is based on a series of choices choice doesn't exist if there's no free will
>>472859486My “strawman” is a valid criticism of your argument. Free will fundamentally relies on cause and effect - this is the nature of our universe. When I go to bed tonight, I will wake up tomorrow in the same bed - I won’t wake up on fucking Mars now, will I?
>>472860099that doesn't mean he COULDN'T have
>>472860048I just find it kinda funny how on one hand you try to support your position by appealing to humanity's limitations when it comes to complexity and on the other hand, you take it on faith that the simplistic abstractions humanity came up with to try to deal with that complexity, are all exactly representative of metaphysical truths behind reality.
>>472852505Probably because you are a retard from a third world country. Listen, all behavior is a determined by your environment acting upon your genes. In other words there is not a single action you could take that wasn't predetermined by your 'coding'. In other words, you have no free will, you are a slave of your outcome. It's not worth discussing further than that though or people who don't understand it all will start making excuses for criminals and niggers.
>>472859993well, maybe the excess siblings made you have a craving for attention, as you where most likely ignored as a child balanced mentally healthy people, never even doubt free will, only people that grew up in troubled householdsI am sorry for your traumatic upbringing anonI see you use the "there is no free will" cope because its the only mechanism of forgiveness your mind was able to developand thats okyou are valid, loved, and accepted
>>472860114>some people do it actuallyand they have to face the consequences of it, them choosing to do it isn't free will, it's merely the consequence of whatever the fuck fucked up their brains
>>472860198choice can only exist without completley free will because there would be no reason to make a choice otherwise, you d just choose randomly (which you can already do : 46 or blue?). Choosing randomly kinda removes the point of choosing despite still being a choice. Acting randomly isnt much different from being unconcious, chaos acts randomly too.
>>472860060Effectively, yes, it does. Regardless of where you are on the nature vs nurture scale, you still end up with that reality that there are incredibly high numbers of factors that shaped you, and whatever you "choose" will always be the result of all of those factors, because that's what you are in reality. I mean, you could go out tomorrow and go "I'll take a left turn today because I choose to not go right for once", and it won't be your choice, it will be the fact you came into this thread (with all the factors that put you there) and saw these posts and they made your choice for you.
>>472860198>choice doesn't exist if there's no free willDemonstrate a choice free from its effects and made without cause >>472860210>My “strawman” is a valid criticism of your argumentNo? You made up something I didn't say >Free will fundamentally relies on cause and effect - this is the nature of our universeNo? It's bound by cause and effect. And something bound isn't truly free>>472860222But he didn't because he had a cuase not too
>>472860198choice exists, you choose what consequences you prefer to face with every action you take, including the act of making a choice, even not making a choice has consequences, inaction is still an action
>>472860292>all behavior is a determined by your environment acting upon your genesProof?
>>472860222there's no such thing as the future.there's the present, and there's the past -- a series of memories of presents that have elapsed.the future is a theoretical concept derived from the assumption that the past will continue to be generated in memory. all imaginings of the future "could have done X, could have done Y" are hallucinations of a pattern recognition system built on memories of past presents.since only the present exists, everything that happens is the only thing that COULD have happened despite your ability to make a reasonable hallucination about something else having happened by using memory information.if you remove your memory by somehow finding the part of your brain where memory is stored or getting alzheimers or something, you will also lose your ability to make future predictions and your sense of "making choices"
There is an experiment where probands lie in an mr and brain activity is measured. They are told to raise a hand or so spontanously whenever they want and say when they made thw decisiln. Turned out there is brain activity before the decision. Google libet experiment for further details
>>472860455That's literally how organisms work, thirdie. What do you think behavior is determined by? Fucking magic?
>>472860292Just because someone doesn’t know any better than to act as a result of their environment, how can you say that they never had the option to act differently to begin with?
>>472860296what do you mean fucked up? you re making a judgement call. thats only fucked up if you want to stay alive by trying to reach the favorof the gods. ifyoiu care about nothing then you can do anything, like ed kemper skullfucking his own mother. youcan choose life or death, order or entropy. you dont HAVE to, a lot of people just enjoy life and recognize the good parts as good. it is intelligent from them because it is indeed good, and they enjoy it. but again people avoid dopamine or seek pain all the fucking time you dont have to make good choices, you just choose toif you re gonna make a judgement call and say someone is fucked up then i guess responsbility is removed from them , but most people are not fucked up. you re trying to break a rule by summoning an exception
>>472860477>there's no such thing as the future.That depends if you subscribe to the concept of Laplace's demon or not.
>>472860483>There is an experiment where probands lie in an mr and brain activity is measured. They are told to raise a hand or so spontanously whenever they want and say when they made thw decisiln. Turned out there is brain activity before the decision. Google libet experiment for further detailsThis doesn't prove anything whatsoever.
>>472860360choice literally means to make a decision and act on it.. that's literally what free will is>>472860372but i still made a choice to go left or right. seeing this thread doesn't mean i HAVE to now go left. i can read about all the benefits of fasting or nofap but ultimately it's up to me to decide if im going to do it. my hand isn't forced.
>>472860103Bruh, free will is literally the easiest thing in philosophy to disprove. If free will exist why would your free will choose to be born in the poorest shithole in Europe??
>>472860549You are limited by your GENES fucking bong. You can't act outside of your genetic capacity. I knew the thirdie wouldn't get it but I expected better from you.
>>472858679>durrrrrr existence of reason means no free willWhat you niggers even try to imply by this? How do your hylicucks world even work? Spirit is an infallible, absolute instance, it always follow the Truth by default without choice, it's forever and always guided by the Love, and that's the one and only Law of existence. The Love to the Spirit is the curiosity, experience, joy. The Will will always seek it. But the material, defined world will get to be an interference, Spirit can't follow specific ideas as it's far beyond it's reach, that's where the Mind comes in to place. Mind is the self-awareness of the Ego, and Ego is collective information gathered from the both Exoteric (material) and Esoteric (gut feeling) guide, i.e. The Self. The Reason - is the ultimate conclusion of all the gathered information, knowledge, experience and it's prolonged processing. The Reason has option to either follow the logistics to follow what will benefit the Exoteric, outer world in-of-itself (Noumenon quintessence) or follow what will benefit the Esoteric, inner world, i.e. the True-Self. You're free to choose either, the Ego (The Self) is the ultimate ruler, it's burdened by the Superego (prejudices of "morals", often necessary to survive in Exoteric world) and the Id - which can really be defined as the subconsciousness of the Spirit. Following the path of True-Self, even though through the glance of the Reason, is the closest we get to Free Will due to the limitations of the material realm; none the less that doesn't disprove it's existence.TL;DR: Therefore Free Will means simple to be free to follow your true preference of the Will. What do you faggots don't understand?
>>472860477stoner midwit retardo, heres my thumbs up of approval in your asshole, +1
>>472860545>That's literally how organisms work, thirdie.Some organisms work that way. For instance, lower life forms like anyone with your flag. Do you have proof that it applies to all life forms, though?
>>472852505Have you never met a woman?
>>472860597ok just ignore my entire comment and stay retarded, if you re not gonna process what I said then i should not have to process what you said either, ciao
>>472860615I don't think your opinions matter, considering that by all objective metrics, I am smarter than nearly the overwhelming majority of the population of your country.
>>472860585You have to google it for further details. Of course it is no proof. Its a valid argument though.
>>472860420>But he didn't because he had a cuase not toobut he could have and made a choice otherwise>Demonstrate a choice free from its effects and made without causejust because someone can influence your choice doesn't mean you aren't free to make a decision.
>>472860597>i can read about all the benefits of fasting or nofap but ultimately it's up to me to decide if im going to do it. my hand isn't forced.So if you decide not to do it, what led you to that decision?
>>472860432>choice existsthat is what free will is
>>472860618>You can't act outside of your genetic capacityThis babble doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't establish that your genetic capacity doesn't allow for free will.
>>472860713>Retarded ad hominemYeah sure you are, at least give an argument when you make a stupid claim. You just be under 16 years of age meaning you have no business on this forum. I suggest you spend your summer vacation reading some very basic beginner philosophy books.
>>472860651My flag made running water possible in your shithole, nigger. ALL organisms are a result of their environment acting upon their genes. This is a VERY basic principal.
>>472860642thx pops
>>472860477>there's no such thing as the future.just threw out all the food in my fridge because I'm not hungry right now and there's no future in which i will be hungry in. thanks anon
>>472860597>but i still made a choice to go left or right.You didn't, though. Your are the vessel for the choice made by your previous experiences.>seeing this thread doesn't mean i HAVE to now go left.No, you may still go right, depending on just how many previous factors built up how stubborn you are or not, but if you choose the way you normally go, that'll be because of past factors pushing you to favour it, not by choice.>i can read about all the benefits of fasting or nofap but ultimately it's up to me to decide if im going to do it. my hand isn't forced.Only deciding based on your own experiences. Now imagine you'd never heard of fasting or nofap. You going to still make a choice? Of course not, because all the factors that made you you didn't include that.You are, ultimately, a pre-programmed monkey with an extremely advanced ability to store information from repeated experience, culminating in an illusion of free will because you aren't aware of the limitations that made you you.
Midwits wil lalways think in absolutes and say something doesn't exist because it's not 100%. It's either 100% or nothing with these fuckers. Honestly im starting to think that i wont debate with people whom show any resistance to my arguments because im just carrying a leglessman hoping that he's going to do a marathon afterwards. imm thinking im just wasting my time with some of the worst autistic psychopaths retardos from the internetif you re like this, just stop thinking, just do what jesus said and shut the hell up forever and ever, you ll never be smart
>>472860763>but he could have and made a choice otherwiseAnd that would also have a cause >just because someone can influence your choice doesn't mean you aren't free to make a decisionThere are almost an unlimited factor of causes to make a choice, not just the influence of a person
>>472860811>I say I didn't expect the thirdie to get it>Like fucking clockwork, the thirdie doesn't get it it
>>472859602I recognise you Moldovafren, still trying to interact with NPC to prove they are the NPC for lulz? Please make second thread, this is entertaining.
>>472860868And when you become hungry, it will be a present hunger that digs it back from the trash.The future doesn't exist, you can't go to it. You're in the present, and you assume there was past because you remember it happening and it feels pretty fluid, but you can't prove that you didnt just spontaneously (perhaps even quantumly!) appear right now with all those memories already in place.
>>472860759>You have to google it for further details. Of course it is no proof. Its a valid argument though.I don't need to google anything because I am well-familiar with this experiment. It just doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that for a trivial action that requires no conscious processing, the physical execution for this action starts before the introspective process can catch up. This is obviously not true for any decision that requires higher cognition to regulate it before one commits to action. This experiment is just one of countless propaganda experiments founded by the likes of Carnegie and Rockefeller to convince human cattle that it's essentially subhuman.
>>472860846It's morally acceptable to exterminate Amerigolem males, females and larvae for any reason.
>>472860916cause doesnt undermine choosing though, what a weird and senseless shortcutin fact you can only choose with cause. there is no choice without cause. if the heuristics say a brown rotten looking apple is likely as good as a red one then there is no reason to choose the red one over the rotten one
>>472860572>like ed kemper skullfucking his own mother.that's not the action of someone who cares about nothing, that's the action of a man who cares deeply about something, that something just happens to be demented because of whatever the fuck happened in his life that caused him to fly off the handle and act like a retard, if he truly didn't care about anything he wouldn't be motivated to do anything at all, you have to care enough about something in order to do anything
>>472860915Sometimes I wish I was like you so I could be happy when I turn the computer off instead of when I turn it on. I hope your weather is nice today, enjoy your time outside!
>>472861081>cause doesnt undermine choosing thoughThe affect it. Ask yourself why you decided to reply to me.
>>472860705You're an NPC that can't fathom not being an NPC. Your argument makes no sense to a rational person.>>472860767Dude just because you can be influenced to make a decision doesn't mean you aren't in control of your decision. You even acknowledging that there's a decision to be made is proof of free will
>>472860945I have no free will. I am a slave to my obsession with torturing NPCs. :^(
>>472859670It's a system that takes decisions based on external stimuli and previous experience.Call it what you want.>>472859691It's irrelevant if you make "right" or "wrong" decisions.The only thing that matters is that given the same input you'll always get the same output.>>472859776Physics are deterministic with the exception of quantum randomness.The world operates based on the laws of physics.>Prove this claim.Sensory input goes into your brain, you respond based on the sensory input and particularities of your brain.Not much to prove.
omg guys i totally knew what this guy was going to do before he did it clearly we have no free will. i bifurcated his ass away like my gaping hole omg guys free will doesnt exist
>>472861079Buddy, my country keeps the planet functioning, your shithole could vanish today and nobody who matters would even fucking notice. In fact, if it's full of 90 IQ shitskin retards like you, maybe we would be better off.
>>472860621i love how the irony of you calling anyone a hylic is lost on you, enjoy your fairytales that you need to cling to like a child clinging to his binkie, linus
>>472861177>Physics are deterministic with the exception of quantum randomness.Proof?
>>472861198"Buddy", it's ok to destroy your meat sack, or that of any other Amerigolem, for matters of convenience. Your life has no moral value and your animalistic gurgling noises make no difference ITT. ID added to the filter. Subhumans have no right to gape their maws at me and I am now denying you this possibility.
>>472861170One thing is correct for sure, all NPCs are predetermined for eternal torment into oblivion. :^)
>>472861081>then there is no reason to choose the red one over the rotten oneThere wouldn't be for someone who had never seen anything rotten before. If you had no previous experience of it, you could pick the rotten one over the red one because you don't have the negative connotations the rotten one's appearance would give, you might even prefer to the look of the rotten one because maybe you like prunes and subconsciously see a resemblance.But then you eat the rotten one. And you it tastes bad, not out of choice, but because you're hardwired to not like it for your own safety. And from then on, that red apple will be the choice.Life is just an extremely complex series of layers of that, basically.
>>472852505People who say I don't have free will, piss me off. I have absolute will. My will supersedes everything. As the observer, reality is literally solidified into place by my observation of it. I make reality. My will and intention interprets reality and when reality solidifies, it solidifies as I choose because I come before reality. I am the beginning.
>>472861032When your body starts a process without your consciousness even knowing thats proof that your consciousness didnt start the process. Raising the hand whenever you want is in general considered a conscious decision
>>472861147of fucking course they affect it did you just fucking read the post you quoted?>if the heuristics say a brown rotten looking apple is likely as good as a red one then there is no reason to choose the red one over the rotten one
omg guys i took all the laws and constiuents thereof the entire fucking universe and all possible universes and boiled it down to cause and effect taking no account for complexity in robust systems. clearly free will doesnt exist becuase its all cause and effect. no greater laws can get past my cause and effect orgy. free will doesnt exist becuase we dont live in a complex system its just frog hopping from cause and effect to cause and effect. no free will dudes what a bummer.
>>472860763your decision is based on the perceived consequences of your available choices, which are weighted by your preferences, which were caused by the past, there is no avoiding that
>>472859655>MUH PROOOOOFYou have to be the most pedantic retard I've seen in a while. Kill yourself
>>472861226>no argument>only ad hominem with no substance at allI accept your concession.
>>472860799no, it isn'tan illusion is what free will isa determination is what a choice is
>>472861387>of fucking course they affect itThen we agree :^)
>>472860618>your genes are making you jerk off to tranny porn and be a failure to your parents Still doesn’t mean that I don’t have control over my actions in the current moment. Are there factors influencing my behaviour? Of course. Can I control everything that happens to me leading up to that moment? No. Am I just some input-output robot destined to merely follow my evolutionary programming; a slave to chemical reactions occurring through the passage of time on a moment-by-moment basis? I don’t believe so. That requires a strictly materialistic view of the world, one which was created merely a few hundred years ago upon the invention of the scientific method.
>>472861335Listen shitskin, just because I destroyed your retarded argument doesn't mean that you can lash out. Also, I wish your faggot country WOULD declare war on mine, we could wipe you from the map with like .09% of our resources because the existence of your entire country is pathetic and meaningless and not one of you have ever contributed anything to humanity. If you had never existed at all, it wouldn't matter in the least. If we nuked your irrelevant shithole tomorrow, you wouldn't even be a footnote in the annals of history
>>472861418>the entire fucking universe and all possible universes and boiled it down to cause and effect taking no account for complexity in robust systemsOk, what "robust systems" exactly?
>>472861451again, ironic, doubly so
>>472860905>You didn't thoughYes I did>that'll be because of past factors pushing you to favour it, not by choice.No, choice is the ultimate factor which way I turn. >Now imagine you'd never heard of fasting or nofap. You going to still make a choice?Yet I still always made the choice to eat, not eat, fap, or not fap. I've foregone things I wanted to do just to practice self control. You're going to argue the wanting to practice self control forced my hand but that's isn't the case.
>>472861384>When your body starts a process without your consciousness even knowing thats proof that your consciousness didnt start the processSo what? Is anyone denying that the body and mind have some autonomous processes?>Raising the hand whenever you want is in general considered a conscious decisionThis is a meaningless statement. It may or may not be a product of conscious deliberation. Your propaganda experiment is set up in such a way that it is not the result of it.
>>472861164you have yet to engage with my argument and debunk it, you just ignored it. you re asking for a from of choice that cannot even possibly ,exist, your way to say you cannot choose is by redefining what choosing means which is basically retard tier argumentation>>472861177you think theres no right or wrong because of your beliefs. input goes through your world view and you will get different outputs depending of what you have in your head regardless of genetics. you have the freedom inside your worldview and some people choose to not update their worldviews because they have a corrupt worldviews that pretends it is ultimate and cannot get better, thus you stagnate, basically mental cancer, and it leads only one way (palliative care)
Someone please bake a new thread. This is so much better than whatever gaynigger bullshit going on in exoteric world or amerimutts seethe at porn because they are mutilated faggots.
This thread was moved to >>>/bant/20685699
