Why is the ruling elite so hell-bent on convincing their cattle that a human is just a meat puppet animated by molecular dynamics? Why does every state-run institution teach this idea? Why does every mainstream media outlet promote it?
Frankist Sabbateanism. Inverting reality.
>>472862118so that you will obey your base lusts and act like a beast.
>>472862118If there's no such thing as free will, then it's literally impossible for the ruling elite to do anything other than what they're currently doing.
>>472862118Because they're fucking Satanists that want you to believe you're solely a material being without a soul and induce you to act on your most base level.
>>472862118Why are you so hellbent on not defining free will?
>>472862891I'm not "hellbent" on it. I just have no reason to. Your spergouts are not a reason.
>>472862118Because it's been scientifically proven. "Muh loominarty" is not a valid counter-argument.
>>472863048>Because it's been scientifically proven.Putting aside the fact that you're lying, your premise doesn't explain anything. "Because it's heckin' science" doesn't explain their obsession with promoting this supposed "truth". The truth never mattered to the state or the information-industrial complex. They will lie through their teeth or simply omit the truth when it suits them.
>>472862118>Why is the ruling elite so hell-bent on convincing their cattle that a human is just a meat puppet animated by molecular dynamics?I am the Anti Christ the leader of the IlluminatiI was revealing sacred truths before and noone gave a crapstop blaming "muhh elites" for normie behavior>>472862594Satan is the bringer of light it literally convinced mankind to eat the fruit of "free will"....muhh Satan muhh elitesSatan is Free will, the first step into free will, thats why its called the original sin
>>472862118>Why is the ruling elite so hell-bent on convincing their cattle that a human is just a meat puppet animated by molecular dynamics?Honestly, with amount of retarded NPC I see in daily life makes me wonder if 99.9% are the actual soulless filler because the world is so fucking gay that no genuine spirit want to come here, and the percentage only gries higher due to pajeets, gookbugs and nigger overbreeding. Demiurge is gay for sure, even if he isn't meant to be that way in the beginning. I just want to go home, whether that be Pleroma or Void.
and no I am not a "muhh Satanist"I am a Christian, a real one , I am Christ
>>472863428>eat the fruit of "free will"....that was the lie though, because all it did was to enslave humanity under sin, placed our wills in bondage to sin and death as its consequence.
>>472862118Define free will
>>472863617Why? What does it have to do with the matter at hand?
>>472863637>Why?To understand your context so I can give genuine replies. Or you could just claim to filter my ID like you do in all the other threads
>>472862118We literally have no evidence for anything else. If you open up yourself to the super natural everything is suddenly fair game and deciding on a curriculum becomes really hard because why teach paranormal idea #1 when paranormal idea #2 is just as valid.
>>472863608it was part of the plan, thats why God permitted reality to go onif it really was against Gods will, then God would have just erased the universewithout fall, there would be no rebirth, there would be no ChristI said the Anti Christ meme because thats what the dogmatic evangelicals are always crying about "muhhh Anti Christ muhhh Satan"I am Christ, I have forgiven Satan, and I rule the world
>>472863797>If you open up yourself to the super natural everything is suddenly fair game and deciding on a curriculum becomes really hard because why teach paranormal idea #1 when paranormal idea #2 is just as valid.Your reply makes zero sense. No one said they have to actively promote the idea of free will. The question is rather why they work so hard to undermine it.
>>472863882i didn't say anything about it not being part of Gods decree. Satan lied, everyone died. You are not Jesus.
>>472863617Refer to this post >>472860621
and why do I say this with such confidence >inb4 schizo etc etcno, I rule the world, because I am you, I am Alex Soros, I am Elon Muskthey cannot not be me, I just think and thats pulls the strings of reality through all of youits just a matter of time before the last pieces fall into place
They want you to think that they have solved every riddle when it comes to the human consciousness and human experience.
>>472862118It is a masonic false doctrine, purposely disseminated in both the church/academia by these satanist kabbalahnigger plants. Think controlled opposition, but on a cosmo-spiritual scale. In summary, I truly do hate the antichrist.
>>472863545>Honestly, with amount of retarded NPC I see in daily life makes me wonder if 99.9% are the actual soulless fillerReally? That's a shame. I watch funny clips from Russia every once in a while and get the impression your retards are wildcards with some genuine vitality in them.
>>472864040stop lying to yourself thenhow to do pretend to be forgiven for your sins, when you cant even admit to themyou are as guilty as Satan is , might as well own it
>>472862118Only God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, and the fact that he knows what will happen proves that free will is an illusion because God already knows what's coming before you've even gone along with it. Anyone who thinks they have free will is trying to claim they're above God and his Divine Plan.
>>472864062>Therefore Free Will means simple to be free to follow your true preference of the WillHow did you determine what is and isn't true preferences of will?
>>472864211what sins do you think i'm denying? i admit to them all.
>>472863997Considering you said>a human is just a meat puppet animated by molecular dynamics?in a way that seems to insinuate that being "just a meat puppet" isnt compatible with free will, I assumed you meant something spiritual.
people pushing this "there is no free will"are just a small faction>>472864139 and their existence is appreciated, its a filter, even if they believe they are right, its good to separate the shaft from the wheat
>>472862118it should be readily apparent by now. "they" don't want you to have an overstanding and come to a realisation of your true potential
Can someone give me an argument proving that free will isn't possible or is illusory?
>>472864345Again, the question is why they actively and explicitly promote free will denial and this physics puppet reductionist dogma, overstated to the nth degree, not why they don't go out of their way to preach free will.
>>472864327>thousands of years of philosophy about the dififculty of human existence>>uhhh but can i put that under a microscope? what unit is it measured in?
>>472864615>preach free willBecause it's religious dogma, not truth.
>>472864343thinking you are God, the original sin, but its not your fault you deny it, its too heavy of a burdenbut Christ told to embrace it, to accept you are God, to become like him, an incarnation of God, and with that knowledge, we can at least humble ourselvesWhy do you think people are arrogant, they drive around in giant cars pushing everybody aroundeverybody thinks they are God, thats why humans are such assholesbut if you admit it, if you embrace it, you can evolve past it, and become Christ
Free will is fake and gay you are an absolute retard to think otherwise.
>>472864536Let's start by you telling us what free will is.
>>472864676>the bot glitched out
>>472864615they do it because if you believe that everything you feel like doing is simply part of your natural and unavoidable, uncontrollable, nature, then why would you bother trying to resist those urges?
>>472864777You know what free will is.
>>472864615How is physicalism incompatible with free will? Why cant you have both? To be honest, I never actually encountered determinism from a physicalists.
>>472864686repent
>>472864674>can't answerOK, have a nice day
Because, if you realized each other as formless and immortal souls beyond race, gender, religion, and species, that would be bad for Evil.
>>472864777I will tell you what it is solely on account of those Divine trips. On the most basic level, free will refers to an intuitive understanding that there's a fundamental difference between the way conscious and self-aware beings make decisions and the way a rock helplessly rolls down the hill when it's kicked.
>>472863617Free will = acausal self-determinacy It is the third mode of causation besides deterministic causation and randomness.
>>472863742So I take it >>472863637That you don't actually want a genuine conversation?
>>472864976>acausal self-determinacyGive an example
>>472864703free will is real, we are God willfully, and we become Christ willfully as wellotherwise your freedom becomes tyranny for others free will freely understands its place and lovingly serves this worldthats why I dont really care about the "free will argument" only as it serves as an introduction to revealing the truth to mankindyou are truly God, but if you dont understand it, you will be a tyrant instead of a server thats why gringo freedom failed, you say "in God we trust" yet you dont serve God, its a freedom of individual micro tyrants and Karens all fighting amongst yourselves for the most irrelevant bullshit
>>472864819I really don't, tell me.
>>472864838>How is physicalism incompatible with free will?I didn't say it is. I don't care if it is. First of all, physicalism is a doctrine of philosophical nothing, not a scientific proposition. Secondly, I don't see how it relates to the question I asked.
>>472864327>How did you determine what is and isn't true preferences of will?>"hurrrrr I wanna poop, must be muh Satan has predetermined by fate to wish to poop"I think I am starting to understand why Moldovanon tends to ignore such requests to define Free Will.Also I just wrote the decomposed answer before the TL;DR version that explains the cravings of the Spirit that it follows through Will.
HOLD MELOVE ME AND FREE MELUKE THE RIVER JORDANLOVE ME FOREVVVVERRRRRBUT THE TOLD MEA MAN SHOULD BE GREATFUL
>>472865173>I too can't give a genuine answerIt's sad really
>>472864863the fact that you dont know what you are doing, doesnt negate your free willyou are free to reject what I sayits inevitable anyway, I am just trying to save you some suffering idk, but I guess its not my placeI am though, driven to share this truth, as its the key for the true enlightenment and collaboration in human kind
>>472864777Will seems to be genes responding to the environment, free will is the control over how one interprets his environment through conventional abstractions. You're the one who sets which abstractions make up your reality hence control how you will react in front of stimuli.You might not control perfectly what stumbles upon you, but you have control over how you let that thing influence your worldview or not.Lacking free will is living in a purely conventional reality, being a NPC. While having free will is being able to tap in your sensational reality, one that goes beyond the words of men.Your turn.
>>472862118You don't have any free will you dumb fuck.You're literally cattle thinking that you're free because you think that you can chose between eating pasta or pizza.
>>472865146>not a scientific propositionNever said it was, determinism isnt one either.>Secondly, I don't see how it relates to the question I asked.I dont get the question then. The establishment consensus is that free will is a thing and determinism is just spammed on tiktok. So I dont know who you're actually refering to or we have a different understanding of what "free will" means.
>>472865391you had no choice but to type this post
>>472864188>your retards are wildcards with some genuine vitality in them.Some are, yeah. But most are pro-government cucks that either miss muh sovok, or neoliberals, or just npc that support current government and want daddy government to govern them harder. I am genuinely tired of this shithole, can't even own bike due to gorillion of laws and due to commieblock can't fit them in...>>472865252I just said the full, decomposed answer in that very post before the TD;DR version that address the exact topic of your concern. Learn to read retard.
>>472865393>determinism isnt one eitherhttps://youtu.be/Jint5kjoy6Ihttps://youtu.be/TI5FMj5D9zUhttps://youtu.be/OjCt-L0Ph5ohttps://youtu.be/ZicKcv8vMNwI can go on forever
The Western religious notion of free will is pure narcissistic delusion - a grandiose fantasy that places human choice on a preposterous metaphysical pedestal above the natural laws and deterministic forces governing the entire cosmos. This contra-causal fairytale imagines our minds as immaterial, formless, magical sources of utterly uncaused, ex nihilo causal powers, exempt from the physiological constraints and causal chains that rationally explain all other phenomena. It arrogantly recasts human decision-making as some miraculous, self-created form of willful creationism rather than recognizing it as shaped by the same rational patterns and processes describing the rest of the known universe. In essence, it inscribes blatant anthropocentric narcissism as pseudo-profundity, shamelessly elevating human ego over empirical explanations of how embodied minds actually operate via scientific naturalism.
>>472863428Typical satanist faggot lie. The fruit was the "knowledge of good and evil" not free will. The fact they chose to eat it against God's direction shows they already had free will.
>>472865571>I just said the full, decomposed answer in that very post before the TD;DR A bunch of mumbo jumbo. Demonstrate a will free from cause and effect
>>472862118Why is it impossible for shilling liars to start a thread without manipulative "Why" questions?Also: Whether there is Free Will or not is so indistinguishable from each other, that it doesn't matter in anyone's day-to-day lives.
>>472865610>they chose to eat it against God's direction shows they already had free will.Against God's direction? Isn't this god omnipotent? Surely he already knew what would happen, right?
Free Will is Jewish.
>>472865173>I think I am starting to understand why Moldovanon tends to ignore such requests to define Free Will.In fact, unless I am arguing something specifically about free will, I ignore such requests because it's difficult to define in a way that would be generally agreed upon, so the whole thing just degenerates into arguments about semantics, when I'm far more interested in the attitude and reasoning of free will deniers, who argue not against any particular definition of free will on logical grounds, but against the very sense of agency on the ground of their thinly rationalized nihilism.
>>472865588Those videos are breaking the consensus, they arent mainstream.Video#2 literally say "free will denier" - you wouldnt say that if they were spouting accepted points.
>>472865048>Give an exampleMe choosing what porn to fap to.
>>472865875It is widespread within the scientific communityhttps://youtu.be/rohgVwQ57uM
>>472865829>I ignore such requests because it's difficult to define in a way that would be generally agreed uponThe you have absolutely no basis to tell others their wrong about their opinions about "free will".
>>472865607>human choice on a preposterous metaphysical pedestal above the natural laws and deterministic forces governing the entire cosmosCorrect, assuming they're even deterministic to begin with
>>472865393>The establishment consensus is that free will is a thing and determinism is just spammed on tiktok.Maybe you have a nice establishment, Austria. Although I suspect this "consensus" you're referring to only comes up when the state wants to punish its slaves for misbehavior.
>>472865933>me choosingThat's not acausal, try again bud
>>472865675>engage in my arbitrarily composed red herring strawman not related to the actual topic just to engage in my egotism craving to btfo youChoke on bbc mutt, you're predetermined to love niggers.
>>472865950>X doesn't exist obviously also define it also fuck you
>>472865950>The you have absolutely no basis to tell others their wrong about their opinions about "free will".I don't tell anyone they are wrong until they start lashing out incoherently, vomiting some dogma about deterministic universes and irrelevant biological factoids.
>>472865784They chose to eat the fruit of knowledge and good and evil after being told not to. This shows that they had free will before eating the fruit in the story. It's a satanic inversion to portray the fruit as the origin of free will when that was God given from creation.
>>472865610if they have not eaten the fruit, how would they understand disobeying God was evil?this obviously is a show put up by God to teach us something, and that something isnt a dumb plain tyrannical line like "you have to always obey God, lesson learned"no, thats not the lesson, thats not the purpose of what happenedSatan was only an agent of GodThe garden doesnt represent perfection and lack off suffering, the garden represent animal ignorance, ignorance is blissGod did not push out of the garden as a punishment, God pushed us out in its plan for our awakeningSatan knowingly or not, was just another tool kinda like the "anti free will" crowd, they knowingly or not, are only tools that will serve to further manifest the reality of free will and Godironically the only determinism that exists is that all things end up serving Gods plan, truly free and loving existence, which is the end plan of reality, realizing that existence is most valuable, through individuality and freedom, and then lovethe only thing you cannot be, is not freeyou are determined to be free hahahahahah
>>472866081>red herring strawmanYou dont know how to use those words. It's just an excuse to your inability to actually answer the question >>472866177Go back and re-read from the beginning bud>>472866184>until they start lashing out incoherently, vomiting some dogma about deterministic universes and irrelevant biological factoids.But you have no basis to tell them they're wrong, other than to get emotional and claim to filter their ID>>472866240>They chose to eat the fruit of knowledge and good and evil after being told not toBut god already knew they would do this regardless and let it play out
>>472866318>if they have not eaten the fruit, how would they understand disobeying God was evil???? Are you retarded? Obviously they didn't. but they had the choice to either obey or not obey. Free will.
>>472865946Did you watch the video? Its making a good point on how physicalism and free-will coexist without issue.
>>472866033Is it different in moldova? Who is pushing determinsm there?
you cannot escape your being free, only by dying, which you are also free to doyou are so free you can even chose to kill yourself, or to submit yourself to slaverythis is how free you are
>>472866438>But god already knew they would do this regardless and let it play outNot according to the story in the Bible. You're trying to make an argument based on predestination nullifying free will. If that's the case then the fruit wouldn't change that. I don't believe in predestination.
>>472866438>you have no basis to tell them they're wrongThey make retarded arguments based on retarded premises so they're wrong.
>>472864265The idea of multiple timelines solves this problem. God may know all possible outcomes but that doesn't prevent you from choosing the timeline in which you wish to exist.
>>472866591>>But god already knew they would do this regardless and let it play out>Not according to the story in the Bible.Incorrect >"The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps"Is God not omnipotent?>>472866599>They make retarded arguments based on retarded premises so they're wrong.Based on what exactly?
>>472866490>Is it different in moldova? Who is pushing determinsm there?I've been living here for less than 6 months so I don't know who's pushing what in Moldova. But geographical borders are almost moot considering the global "Americanization" of culture through via online media.
>>472866591but did God know or not know what they would choose before He set creation going?
>>472866444yes I agree, you can choose to remain a dumb ignorant animal in the garden of Eden as well, same as you can believe free will is not realbut I already chose otherwise, and I will deal with it, I wont pretend that I not free and submit to blind obedience to a freaking dogma lolGod is within me, and God doesnt want me to crawl back to be freaking ignorant animalthis is part of the plan, there is no going back
>>472866744>Based on what exactly?Based on their mental deficiencies. Your ID goes to the filter now. Be sure to write another 80 replies that no one will read. You are, after all, an automaton with no agency so you have no choice.
>>472866744You're wrong. Predestination is not demonstrated by scripture and there is plenty of evidence to God's knowledge being limited. Predestination is not a majority Christian view but a niche interpretation that is incompatible with the existence of free will.
>>472866860>Your ID goes to the filter nowI accept your concession
>>472866744post the verse that indicates God "already knew they would do this regardless".
>>472866921>You're wrongAbout what exactly?>>472866921>God's knowledge being limitedHuh?>Psalm 147:5: "Great is our Lord, and of great power; His understanding is infinite"Do you even read your bible?
>>472867081See>>472867084>>Psalm 147:5: "Great is our Lord, and of great power; His understanding is infinite"
>>472866825You're a satanic faggot. The father of lies is the serpent and you have daddy issues that make you venerate acts of disobedience
>>472866451The guy's who argument is about "emergence" or magic. He concedes at the end that his worldview is bullshit and it's deterministic anyway but we don't have the computing power and right set of metrics to properly account for the deterministic nature of physics.There is no questions about it my dude, the universe is deterministic, every physicist believes that because that is the consensus.This video is just a feel good bullshit about how it's deterministic but in fact not but indeed yes. Very dumb.
if Adam and Eve would have "obeyed" Godyou would not be here, this would not be happening, Christ would not have had to come, etc etc etcif you want to end the movie right at the beginning, ok...go ahead I guessLike I said, everything is part of Gods plan for TRUE freedom, and true unity, that can only come from willful individualities , the only determinism is that we were determined to be free individuals
>>472866825>yes I agree, you can choose to remain a dumb ignorant animal in the garden of Eden as well, same as you can believe free will is not realI'm glad you can admit that you assertion that the fruit granted free will was incorrect. Since they had free will to choose prior
>>472866040My choice has no cause other than my free will. Without my input this choice wouldn't be made.
>>472867190Satanic inversions from a gnostic faggot. He is telling you sin is good because Christ saved us from it.
>>472866618Not really, because it implies he doesn't know which timeline his plan will go down, meaning he isn't in control. That's blasphemy.
>>472867277>My choice has no causeOK so then watch gay porn
>>472862118I don't think free will exists based solely on the fact that if I reduced you down to your most base form, you're a collection of lifeless atoms. If I created a clone that was born in your position and experienced all the same events and chemicals you did, it'd most likely act exactly as you do, because why wouldn't it? I don't believe in fate either, though. Both are fake and gay.
>>472867148I seek to redeem evil, redeem Satan, not condemn it we all have Satan within as well, if you just blindly condemn Satan you condemn yourself as you committed the same sinthats why I dont believe in hell, the original sin is a mechanism, not a condemnation, it only becomes a self condemnation if its doesnt mature into Christhood
>>472867392I freely choose not to watch gay porn. I'll leave that to you.
>>472867532>choose not to watch gay pornWhy?
>>472866591what say you? >>472866775
>>472867465No such thing as Christhood. that's a gnostic satanic larp. Christ was the messiah who defeated sin and will return to conquer the one you venerate.
>>472867566Because he fears that people will point at him and call him gay
>>472867244you only seek affirmation in your condemnation narrative you want an excuse to be evil, but it will disappoint you to know, there is no hell, only time
>>472867596Learn to read. I already said I don't believe in predestination. Most Christians don't.
>>472867611Which is indeed a cause
>>472862118devalue something so they can "buy it out" and control it, just like every other commodity. when mains water supplies became popularised, the government was sending information saying previous water supplies were all suddenly dangerous and contaminated, because those were free, from rainwater. tap water is something they could charge for.by turning humans into just a meat bag, they can do whatever they want "because you're not special". slicing and dicing dead bodies to render them down for every organ, bit of skin, retina? that's fine.taking aborted foetuses and mashing them up to make skin cream or sucking cells out to experiment on? that's fine.they want to take it further, where you don't value your own kin any higher than a complete stranger from the other side of the world, or even the reverse, that you value the stranger more for whatever reason they give you - because then you have no ties, no loyalty, and your price is suddenly much much lower for them to buy.they see people as commodities and they want the people to see themselves and others at the level of commodities too, so we can be bought for wholesale market prices.
>>472867629pure projection. you want an excuse to be evil so you reject living Godly and embrace "liberation" from the devil. You think freedom is the ultimate good and despise your creator for making you with restrictions
>>472867720So is your god not omniscient?
>>472867598>Christ was the messiah who defeated sin and will return to conquer the one you venerateyeah Christ already conquered my ego, which is "the one I venerate", and now Christ has defeated sin within me, bringing it to a resolutionyou are the one that is not accepting Christ, you just want revenge
>>472862118>why people in control are liarsBecause otherwise they would lose control.
>>472867720so you have good evidence that God really didn't know what would happen when He created? Or are you assuming this because you prefer it?
>>472862118Because the Devil is in control. Their whole objective is to make people stray as far away from God as possible. They get more slaves doing their bidding. The world would be an incredible place is everyone knew their actions had real meaning and consequence. What comes after this life is more important than anything in the world.
>>472867809Already answered that
>>472867459>If I created a clone that was born in your position and experienced all the same events and chemicals you did, it'd most likely act exactly as you do, because why wouldn't it?At the very least, this is extremely unlikely because all the processes involved are highly chaotic, so your fantasy experiment about exact replication isn't just impractical but fundamentally impossible, and that impossibility in and of itself carries significant implications for the subject under discussion.
>>472867810He obviously didn't defeat pride in you since you venerate the embodiment of that sin with the serpent.
>>472867826I simply read Genesis and that's what it says. Predestination is not a majority belief held by Christians.
>>472867851A simple yes or no will do
>>472867967>Predestination is not a majority belief held by Christians.Then how can God prophesied the coming of Jesus?
>>472863048would you spend the same effort to convince a dog that it's just a walking meatbag, that its favourite ball isn't edible or useful in any way and that it should throw it away, and that it shouldn't have puppies because they're not carbon offset by the WEF.or would you respect it and let it live as it was doing.if the former, you're satanic, simple as that, as it has no purpose other than evil.nor even in a religious sense, despite the terminology
>>472868002I don't believe in predestination since it's incompatible with free will. Most Christians reject predestination. All knowing doesn't mean all events are predetermined. There are thousands of years of history covering the topic that you can find with a search of the term "predestination"
>>472867566>the american cannot understand that other people don't like to watch gay pornLmao, I bet it's BBC gay porn for you
>>472867887It's more a question about what makes you you? Is it the actions you take on a day to day basis? Is is the thoughts in your mind? Is it the unique structure of your brain, your body, or something else? Before determining if free will exists, you'd have to define what it means to exist in the first place.>but I think, therefore I amDefine "I"
>>472867802>so you reject living Godlywhat is that suppose to mean? smoking weed and not jacking off?HAHAHAHAHAHAH you poor baby, you think by no jerking off, you are somehow gaining some good boy points with Goddiscipline is not bad, and its good to discipline your life and avoid bullshit, but if you are doing it to "obey God" and to "become righteous" you are simply pissing on the wrong tree hahahaheverything you do, you do for yourself, dont forget that even wanting a better world and a better society is a selfish act, and the thing is, there is nothing wrong with thatthere is good selfish and dumb selfish....
>>472868056>Tell friend I'm going to arrive at his house in a weekWTF HOW DID I PREDICT THE FUTURE?
>>472868056Because Jesus being born was HIS act directly.
>>472868111>I don't believe in predestination since it's incompatible with free will.Then how do you know Jesus is the rightful Messiah?>>472868124>don't like to watch gay pornWhy?
>>472863545the idea that the rapture happened in 2012 seems more plausible as time goes on.the remnants are almost entirely empty shells
>>472868183>was HIS actWho's?>>472868179How do you know Jesus is the rightful Messiah?
>>472868096Just because you don't have free will does not mean that you're a worthless meatbag, you dumb cunt.You can still enjoy everything that you did before, you still can have love for people that are close to you etc.This has obviously been the reality since the beginning of time and it's not really going to change anything in your life anyway.
>>472868167Yeah you are a satanist. You invert the morality of the bible. You think selfishness, disobedience, pride, and lust are goals.
>>472867923I dont venerate Satan, I just forgive him and understand himthats why you dogma morons have such problem with accept gay people in your families, and your christfagging only makes them revel furtherall the LGBT bullshit was caused the christfagging of boomers, you failed to understand love and acceptance and forgivenessso you created a massive pendulum effect, and its your fault, not the fault of gay people
>>472868351you are blind dogmatic useful idiot, working for actual SatanSatan is your need to control and dominate others
>>472868163No, you're just moving the goal post now being faced with the fact that your justification is based on a self-contradicting thought experiment that on one hand assumes a certain physical model and on the other hand assumes a scenario that violates this model in ways that are not orthogonal to the question being explored.
>>472867967So you dont believe that God knows all things? its seems a pretty serious matter to go this far.
>>472866438>"ur using my words wrong!"No, these describe your logical fallacy perfectly, because you as well seem don't understand the meaning of Will.You want me to demonstrate "free will" away from karmic reality of exoteric material world, i.e. "cause and effect" when I just proven that cause and effect is unrelated when I talk about conundrum of the Reason and it's options to choose to follow the path of Self or what is expected from you by combining all knowledge from Id, Ego and Superego in to consideration. Free Will, when put through the lenses of our Ego formed within the limiting material world of this realm, can still feel the whispers of Spirit, or what psychologists call Id. Just like The Spirit, The Id is infallible, absolute state of subconscious that doesn't change at all throughout aging and even muh science proves it; in fact it's so deep that it's subconscious consist like of 70% of all Ego foundation, it's just goes beyond our self-awareness, yet Superego always comes first to self-awareness when faced with logistics of experience we gather from exoteric/outside world as it's serves as tumbler meant not to do anything that would harm you or get you in trouble, i.e. prejudices and established "morals", meanwhile whispers of Id are far less noticeable and requires meditation other than conscious parts of Id like survival instinct. It's within your Reason to choose to obey Id or Superego, and you make such decision by Will, thus Free Will means just to be free to Will what you truly believe is most beneficial, and as I said on my original post, quintessence of Will always follow the Love by default. That means cause and effect are not what denies existence of Free Will, but the Free Will must engage within the world of cause and effect with the help of Mind and the Reason, you retarded faggot. This proves your argument is a strawman, meant to make anons engage in red herring.
>>472868251I don't. That's why religions are also called faiths.
>>472868196>nooooo, you MUST justify why you're not watching gay porn
>>472862118>free willWhat is a will? Is it a behavioral bound in of it's self?If I program an ai to adhere to an algorithmic behavior set, task it with eating, drinking, and shitting and pissing and create parameters to act in accordance to a perceived object rank index and I rank order them in a hierarchy with the list becoming a growing list that acts in relation to previous context...Is such an algorithm free behavior? Or is this a bound on behavior to a set list?What does the word "free" have to do contextually when added to the front of a word that implicitly informs a bound or rule/index set?I find the word somewhat hard to understand, like an oxymoron. A free-willDoesn't a will imply a behavioral index set?You walk like a human, talk like a human, know like a human, react and respond like a human, emotions like a human... yet your thinking structure is free? In the next minute can you think like a tree in a true sense? Are you free to do so? How about access causal link and know what proceeds in the endless chain of what an action will produce? Are you free to think in this way? How about instantaneously remove any emotional bearing on a thought or quiet the mind to perpetual silence? Are you free to think in these ways or alter your will to them?In what sense is a bound free? If a will is a "self" and a self is bound rather than unbound and subject to feee manipulation without effort or restriction, what context does placing the word "free" in front of it imply? I can make choices according to a chooser that is given to me, subject to a pregiven index hierarchy? Is this actual freedom? Or a pre-imposed way of thought?
>>472868351this world is already invertedlike all the christfagging mega churches that clearly work for SatanI ll invert it back , by the power of Christ!!
>>472868290nice lack of foresight or reasoning you have there, fuckwit.>hey, your life is meaningless, you shouldn't continue living nor attempt to prolong your bloodline, there's nothing before or after, you're worthless>repeat 100x a day>but hey, ha ha you can take drugs and play video games ha ha enjoy, here's a voucher!mindless
>>472868535>you as well seem don't understand the meaning of Will.Demonstrate a will free from the chains of cause and effect
>>472862282You don't have a free will to decide if you are someone who is good at suppressing urges, or if you even have any urges.
>>472862118Because they think that if there is no God, they are no longer morally responsible for the things they've done in their lives
>>472868370Pride doesn't mean lgbt stuff. You are demonstrating your ignorance. You a full of pride like satan. You think disobedience is a virtue
>>472865305>you have control over how you let that thing influence your worldview or not.Still, that choice has to be based on some form of reasoning, and if not reasoning, how you act was the result of some other cause. You can't escape the fact that everything happens for a reason. I think I sort of know what you're getting at, but it's an illusion. You can't "will" yourself to do something other than what all events leading up to that point causes you to finally do. Even if you would somehow be able to do that, you still would do that for a reason or a cause.
>>472868573Christ told you to worship his father, Yahweh.
>>472868544>I don'tThen why believe?>That's why religions are also called faiths.Isn't declaring Jesus as your Messiah based on faith? If you don't know he's the Messiah then what is your faith based on?
>>472868618how do you know that?
>>472868458Okay, it's obvious you're just dodging questions with midwit-tier vocabulary to convince yourself you're right. The original intent of the question was to determine what you believe existence entails for the one who believes they exist. Could a clone represent your existence to the point where it would be you? Because if so, free will doesn't exist.>b-but the experiment is impossibleIrrelevant. Answer the question using your own reason given that it could theoretically happen.
>>472868650you think judging and condemning are virtuesyou are as much Satanic and AntiChrist as you see in me
>>472868238Then the world would have ended in 2019.
>>472868548I'm jist asking a simple question. Why don't you watch gay porn? Or are you implying you do but just decided not to this time?
>>472863428>Satan is the bringer of lightSatanist/Luciferian gnostic faggot confirmed
>>472868740>>472868740>Yahwehhahahahahaha ok boomer be sure to send all of your money to Israel as wellno no but seriously, you are literally working for Satan
>>472868784That's funny coming from someone who tries to judge God
>>472867532you, or your heterosexual nature (or perhaps rightful aversion towards degeneracy that porn is) ?
>>472867967>Predestination is not a majority belief held by Christians.But is God knowing everything a widely held belief?
>>472868863>>472868846>calls satan the bringer of light>says he is achieving "Christhood">hates God the fathergnostic luciferian fag confirmed
>>472862311In a twist of fate they all end washing toilets in gas stations and fast food restaurants
>>472868581No, you're just a low IQ idiot that can't think beyond this little paradigm that you have set in your mind.Anything that goes against the way you view reality or life itself is automatically depressing or wrong.Nobody is saying that things are meaningless because you don't have free will.Do you get depressed by the fact that your mind constantly thinks about fucking hot women or eating good food and you having no control over that as well?
>>472868607>hurrrrrrrrr please engage in my narcissistic strawman despite you just proved it to be irrelevant red herring>asking twice will surely btfo these goyim
>>472868179>>472868183Was creation not Gods act directly? Did the garden happen by chance? was the serpent just there on a whim of random happenstance?
>>472868942Yes they aren't mutually exclusive. Try reading the thousands of years of literature on the topic of "predestination". If I knew everything right now would that mean all future events are predetermined? Things that haven't happened are not yet knowable.
>>472868969>strawmanYoire using that word incorrectly again. Let me know when you can demonstrate a will free from the chains of cause and effect
>>472868770>Could a clone represent your existence to the point where it would be you? Because if so, free will doesn't exist.This is moronic on every level. Nevermind that you are positing counter-physical fantasy entities, but it's also not clear how your conclusion follows from your fantasy premise.>my thought experiment is incoherent with respect to how determinism functions but t-t-t-that's heckin' irrelevantIt's relevant if your justification is based on it.
>>472868607>Demonstrate an...>Define a...>Show me a...>The scientific consensus is...>I'm not putting anything forward I simply don't believe that ...>I have no clue what a [fundamental instinctive concept part of the basis of established morality and society] is but it not being real would have no consequences for morality and society whatsoeverYou better start believing in free will or you're gonna run out of dialog tree pretty soon
>>472869026So if your god isn't omniscient then he's not omnipotent. Then why call it a god?
>>472868805Why are you Americans so obsessed with gay porn? You invaded Iraq, Syria and Libya just to force them to watch gay porn.
>>472869077>I can't justify my position or argumentsSad really
>>472869020Why are you ignoring where he forbids them from eating the fruit and they use their free will to disobey?
>>472868883you are the one trying to judge GodI say I understand and I dont mind my suffering, as its part of Gods planhell I ll be "The AntiChrist" myself if its Gods plan....but hey hey chill chill, I am sorry, this is clearly getting into emotional reactionary territory you are right hehehe , at we shat on the thread of the "there is not free will" atheists cringelordsthats always a victory to me I wish you well seriously and I know you do too, you wish that I repent and submit, and I appreciate that!!
This is sort of like the "what is a woman" thing, where retards who claim to be women can't even answer what a woman is.
>>472869159So you do watch gay porn sometimes then?
>>472863882>I am Christ, I have forgiven Satan, and I rule the worldChrist said that this world is an illusion controlled by Satan. Jesus had his chance to rule the world and he rejected it.
>>472869113I do think God is all powerful. I just don't believe in predestination. Not sure why this is hard for you to comprehend. I don't think future events are predetermined or knowable. So God is all knowing as well since he knows everything.
>>472863617Free will means that even if everyone's actions are pre-determined, humans can't predict them very well ahead, so it appears that future decisions are more open-ended. So in a subjective perspective which we all have, anything can happen because we don't know the future.
>>472869221>Jesus had his chance to rule the world and he rejected itthats why Ill be the "Anti Christ", willingly (or not I guess hahaha), because its part of the plan
>>472868738You didn't answer my question. If your answer is cause and effect read that >>472868535My point is that the universe might be deterministic, on the human level it is the sum of non-deterministic choices.Choosing to listen to your mind, body or soul within the framework of your accepted reality is what free will is. It's not just a reflex, instinct or preconceived reasoning.
>>472867360God sees all timelines happening simultaneously, forever. You however in your matter and 3D limitations can only observe one at a time. Your choices will dictate which you experience.
>>472869166The whole basis on which you think you believe things is complete bullshit and you are a goy slave retard
>>472869289>I do think God is all powerfulHuh?>>472866921>God's knowledge being limitedThat's not all powerful bud
>>472869289>I don't think future events are predetermined or knowable. So God is all knowing as well since he knows everything.You're contradicting yourself bud
>>472868749Well for one I don't get addicted to cigarettes very easily (I do get addicted to caffeine and alcohol) so I don't have to "resist" an urge to smoke cigarettes but did I choose not to have that urge?
>>472869188Your posts speak for themselves. You hate God the father and love the serpent. Spiritual daddy issues.
>>472869307>So in a subjective perspective which we all have, anything can happen because we don't know the future.I can agree with this but our choices now can absolutely effect future outcomes
This luminous hell wants to kill both Body and Spirit, but neither will die here, for I will live forever with my God Jesus Christ.Jesus Christ is God.God has only the name Jesus Christ.There is no God but God Jesus Christ.And God has no other name but Jesus Christ.Only God Jesus Christ loves me, cares about me and saves me.Only God Jesus Christ sees me.Only God Jesus Christ listens to me.Only God Jesus Christ respects me.Only God Jesus Christ loves me.Only God Jesus Christ embraces me.Only God Jesus Christ is real and true.I love only you God Jesus Christ.
>>472869509I'm not. You're just really low IQ and don't understand the concept of predestination. The future doesn't exist and can't be known.
>>472869558
>>472869206I answered your question but you ignored it because it doesn't help your gay little routine preprogrammed arguing routine.
>>472869448>The whole basis on which you think you believe things is complete bullshitWhat's my "whole basis" exactly
>>472869693You're doing it again and you don't even realise there are other ways of thinking
>>472869630>I'm notHuh?This is you>God is limited>but he's all powerful Doesn't make sense bud
all of this is hypothetical garbage.
>>472869729>I can't honestly answer you.OK. Have a nice day
>>472869755Future isn't knowable if you reject predestination. Therefore God is all knowing because the future isn't predetermined and only a theoretical we invent.
>>472869026but did God know what would happen if He created things in a certain way? If He did, that is kind of the highest level determining there can be. >If I knew everything right now would that mean all future events are predetermined?it could, but not determined by you. you would simply have exhaustive knowledge. BUT, God can and does determine things to happen. Look at Acts 4:27-28 as an example - think about everything which God had to arrange for that one event to happen.How far back does the arranging go? Was it always Gods desire to show His mercy to us in the form of Christs sacrifice? Or was it just plan B?>ngs that haven't happened are not yet knowable.so you're a open theist? You know, thats a very very minority position in all of Christendom.
>>472869849>Therefore God is all knowingYou're contradicting yourself again >>472866921>God's knowledge being limitedLol
>>472869624Obviously I believe in responsibility and like to believe I did bot the good and terrible choices I did, but if I think about it for a minute I realize I didn't have a choice and keep going.Lack of free will doesn't mean that mentally ill and criminal people shouldn't sit on a chair or that we should feel sorry for this and that.
>>472869289You have to delve into the concepts of infinity and eternity, the answer for predestination lays there.
rich people need a way to justify their obscene wealth. so they make shit up like racial purity, iq, 20 different genders, or some other bullshit to try to convince themselves they aren't sacks of shit for living like parasites.
>>472869176how do you know that He didn't know they'd chose that way? seems like a pretty big oversight.> I just don't believe in predestination.God does indeed predestine things to happen though.
>>472869913>Lack of free will doesn't mean that mentally ill and criminal people shouldn't sit on a chair or that we should feel sorry for this and that.Agreed
>>472869289>So God is all knowing as well since he knows everything.apart from what would happen in the garden before He created it?
>>472870014Look how he contradicts himself here >>472866921>God's knowledge being limited.Lmao
>>472869522so you do have certain weaknesses about which you have a choice to give in to or not? Im not arguing for absolute free will by the way. I think humans hare free will on a sliding and bounded scale. Only God has maximal freewill. The Bible clealy says we have a bounded will.
>>472862118free will is a drive of capitalism and in general out law systemall deterministic roads leads to commuinism
>>472870093Extremely low IQ. Calvinists invented predestination and most Christians reject a knowable predetermined future. Stop trying to apply sci-fi concepts to thousands of years of religious philosophy.
>>472869913>if I think about it for a minute I realize I didn't have a choice and keep going.seems like the ultimate way to avoid responsibility
>>472870300So is blaming Jews for everything.
>>472870014>>472869973https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PredestinationLike most Christians I don't believe in predestination so the events of the future are not predetermined or knowable. I'm done spoonfeeding nigger. You are asking really basic questions that are answered by what I already said. Read up.
>>472870229>Extremely low IQ.I understand posting out your obvious contradictions feels uncomfortable but take this as a lesson to humble yourself and learn to not trip over your own words
>>472870229>most Christians reject a knowable predetermined future.most Christian believe that God doesn't know the future? that would be news to me. Seriously, look into the beliefs of open theists because you seem to be practically one of them.
>>472870364i dont do that.>>472870391>o the events of the future are not predetermined or knowable.wow ok, God doesn't know the future. Yikes.
>>472869849>Future isn't knowable if you reject predestinationBut, just take a step back and look at a snapshot of the Present. Sure, the future isn't 100% knowable. Sure, all Jews aren't necessarily predestined to double down into the 9th circle of Hell. But, reality has taught us that the vast majority will and that the future will be bleak until we eliminate these Jews. And, id just like to address all the haters out there who believe in predestination and a lack of free will. Why do you hate me for wanting the elimination of all Jews if I have no control over it?
>>472870467The events of the future only exist in your head. They aren't a knowable thing that is predetermined like the past.
>>472870391i understand why you are strongly defending this point of view anon - you think it saves God from accusations of creating evil or sin. You, after all your recommendations that i should read 1000 years of theology, might want to try reading why neither of these accusations apply to God at all.
>>472862118if your life was somehow reset again from the very beginning, and you had the exact same genetics and environment, everything would play out exactly the same. that's why i think free will doesnt exist.
>>472870549You are devolving into nonsense. I have said since the beginning I reject predestination.
>>472870580>The events of the future only exist in your head.do they exist in Gods head? Does God really no know the beginning from the end?
>>472870580>The events of the future only exist in your headRevelation only exist in your head?
>>472870549oh you are NTA my mistake
>>472870654>I reject Revelation Lol
Player characters have free will, npcs not so much. Many people don't have souls. They tell you they don't if you listen to them. The satanists don't have autonomy. They try to curtail the free will of the free men out of spite.
>>472870686Already answered this. You are going in circles. Prophecy doesn't mean all events in the future are predetermined. It's God giving a glimpse into his plans for the future.
>>472870725The majority of Christians reject predestination and also accept revelation. You just have a low IQ understanding of things.
>>472870391>>472870620The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible for God to give you free will and still know what you'll do with it.
>>472870816>Already answered thisNo? >>472870876>The majority of Christians reject predestination and also accept revelationThat's an oxymoronic statement
>>472870654Nothing I said was nonsense and my entire post was not directed towards you. You seem to be emotional and took offense where none was meant.
>>472870934>God to give you free will>give you free will>give you>giveWhat happens when use the free will he gave me to nit bend the knee?
>>472870934it is. But the real question is if God knew what would happen before He initiated creation. This applies very much to the event in the garden.
>>472871058my bad. Sorry.
>>472870876Here's your circular stance>God isn't all knowing and limited >thus the future isn't knowable and exist in the mind >but God is all knowing>thus revelation is an accurate prediction of the future You're going in retard circles
>>472870876>The majority of Christians reject predestinationdepends what you meanhttps://www.gotquestions.org/predestination.htmlRomans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”
>>472865607>This contra-causal fairytale imagines our minds as immaterial, formless, magical sources of utterly uncaused, ex nihilo causal powers, exempt from the physiological constraints and causal chains that rationally explain all other phenomena.You mean yours isn't? What have you been doing for the past eleven thousand years then?
Every single one of you retards are making all of this way way more complicated than it needs to be. Just THINK. That's all it takes bros.
>>472870187Free will commonly has two stages, in case of smoking cigs it would go like 1) do you have a choice if you want to smoke and 2) do you have a choice to resist the urge to smoke? Most people would agree that you don't have control over 1 but you have over 2.You can add more stages to it, like do you have a free will if you have cigs in your house. It's just common sense that if you don't keep them around, it's easier to resist because else you have to go outside house to get them.
>>472868955>No, you're just a low IQ idiot that can't think beyond this little paradigm that you have set in your mindthat's exactly what you're doing, because you lack the ability to either hypothesise or project onto the general public, and are stuck in concept that everyone thinks the same as you.i'm talking about a wider perspective while you're desperately grasping onto personal feelings, because you're a cretin.i even gave the dog example and you still don't get it. I'm not a dog but I can empathise with one and consider what might or might not be good for its state of being.it's a waste of time discussing anything on here because all the best left a decade ago, and only dregs are left.>but I did have breakfast
>>472870876>The majority of Christians reject predestinationdid you take a look in Acts 4 anon?27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
>>472871228It's cool anon, I appreciate your understanding.
>>472870300I do feel responsibility as in it's no one else's fault if I don't clean up my room and it gets full of trash and shit. And I do keep my living area relatively tidy btw.I just don't think I have a free will or choice about it. I just don't like living in middle of trash.
>>472870645>if your life was somehow reset again from the very beginning, and you had the exact same genetics and environment, everything would play out exactly the same. that's why i think free will doesnt exist.This is only true if determinism is true. How do you know it is true?
>>472871767>I just don't like living in middle of trash.that's because there are consequences to living in the middle of trash, consequences that you prefer not to have to face, because your past experience informs you that it is better not tonow begins the seething of jewish retards at me for telling the truth
>>472871111>>472870934the point I understand to create us is to achieve a greater awe of being, of God, and of creationGod in the end not only wants us to have free will, God wants us to develop into beings like him and to join in the love of creation, love of ourselves and other beingssome guy said "Hell is others" but I think the point of life, that God is teaching us is "Heaven is others"because from multiple free individual points of view, we can agree, we can see something and say along with God"This is good" and that goodness echoes in our souls, is much more greater than just itself, if he witness it and agree on itexistence and ourselves, others, this is invaluable!!
>>472868581It's exactly this>>472868096>would you spend the same effort to convince a dog that it's just a walking meatbagalso this, kikes have warped White European minds with these asinine, but ultimately humiliating theories, suppositions, and proclaimactions... if not this it's some goy fantasy. This shit is targeted, and designed to distract, disrupt, cause disagreements, and disharmony all demoralizing, and inconsequential. They don't do this shit with niggers, or any other shitskins with such intensity, or success. We gotta go free.
>>472872002You're absolutely right anon
>>472872008God can't have wants or desires as this implies lack.
>>472871767so you dont think you have an choice about if you choose to tidy up at time A or at time B or time C? Beyond your general preference for cleanliness do you think that you have no choice about when or even if actions towards cleanliness are taken or not?
>>472871767>I just don't like living in middle of trash.Maybe that's more due to circumstance and conditioning than free will. I bet Indians don't like living amongst trash and shit filled streets, but they don't have a choice, because their government is laundering billions in fake space programs instead of buying their citizens toilets and plumbing.
call me Satan I dont care, you cannot deny this >>472872008and its beautiful
>>472872084God wants you, personally, specifically, YOU
>>472872094>circumstance and conditioningAlso know as cause and effect >but they don't have a choiceThose who have the financial means have more choices to leave that trash land
>>472872157Stop attributing God human qualities you dirty heathen.
>>472872157Then what we do here on earth matters not if God wants us this badly
>>472862118Because they want slaves who'll tolerate any level of abuse or deprivation.
>>472863048>>472863379There are hylics aka NPC, and then there are humans.This has been understood since ancient Greece.
>>472872084Maybe God is lonely? Yeah he had the angels, but they didn't have free will. Who wants a bunch of ass-kissing Yes men? Boom, the human experiment... He knows most will fail, but in the end he'll have a few good souls to hang out with?
>>472872095>>472872008I won't call you satan for that. God created us in his image so we have free will and an innate desire to create good like him.Sin is the thing that holds us back from living like our father. Trying to portray original sin and the temptation of the serpent as good is wicked.
>>472872456>Maybe God is lonely?What a weird trait to have when you're supposedly omnipotent and self sufficient
>>472872084but when it comes to God acting within time with creatures limited to thinking and acting in time, it seems that He prefers to express His standards (which are part of His nature) in terms of desires for us. Its not that He could not instantly conform reality to whatever it is His desires it to be like, for He could; its that He desire more to do it this way than the other for whatever His reasons may be.It comes down to a hierarchy of desires or wills, not so much as God lacking, if we understand 'lack' to mean 'inability to have'.A human analogy might be that i desire my infant son to not come to any harm...but i also have a desire that he learn to avoid harm by himself, so i might allow him to experience some pain as a lesson. There are all kind of limitations on this, and an, analogy when dealing with teh Divine, but its the best i can do right now.
>>472872539>original sinHow can you have a concept of original ain if there is an uncertain future?
>>472872456God not being lonely is one angle for arguing the Doctrine of the Trinity. If God were truly lonely in this very fundamental way it really would indicate a lack of something, because no created being could ever truly understand Him in His fullness.
>>472868566>In the next minute can you think like a tree in a true sense? Are you free to do so? I can make my awareness more tree like, and I can focus my awareness upon the trees in my vicinity, and then it will produce more tree like perceptions. Of course, I don't get perfect tree awareness. To have perfect tree awareness I would have had to be born as a tree, grow as a tree, and discover life and the universe as a tree. Even if I could perfectly convert my entire body into that of a tree and experience being a tree exactly as all other trees from that moment onward, I would not be a true tree in the sense of having been built from seed and roots ground up into being one.Despite these limitations, when I focus my awareness upon trees and I perceive tree like experiences, such as the visualization of an acorn sprouting from the earth in response to the spring sunlight. I dream about trees and merge my awareness into that of a tree and I experience the clash of perception between that of myself and the tree, and the incomprehensible shift in awareness that such an encounter causes to the perspective of dreaming which could not be anticipated from human knowledge and decision making about the nature of existence and trees.>How about access causal link and know what proceeds in the endless chain of what an action will produce? Are you free to think in this way? If I meditate and contemplate my actions and my life I can see the causal chains which lead from one state of mind to another. Can I go back all the way? I can't go back all the way, but I can go back some of the way, and I've seen much that is far beyond what people whom deny free will would say is possible for the will of the soul to see.>How about instantaneously remove any emotional bearing on a thought or quiet the mind to perpetual silence? If I desire to do so, I have on numerous occasions. Silencing the mind is not particularly difficult.
>>472872597Would you want your infant son to get crucified?
>>472872539>Trying to portray original sin and the temptation of the serpent as good is wicked.its not that intentions of the enemy was good...only that Gods intentions were good, for God cannot sin. its like in Genesis 50 where Joseph said that the intent of his brothers was evil but God intended it for good.
>>472872875If everything was the same as in the Bible?yes and no :-)
>>472872002A lot of people don't give a shit about living in middle of trash or in a mess or literal shit, tho there are less of those people in European and Asian populations. For me it comes from genetics as in my parent's genetics. In English it's called conscientiousness.>>472872093I can't predict when I think my room is untidy enough tho I clean up daily a bit here and there. I do believe in general life tips like you can pick up a habit to do dishes a bit every day so they don't stack up but I don't think people have free will about it, me included. Does it matter in day to day life if you really get to choose or not? Probably doesn't matter.>>472872094Could be.
>>472873000So you can't answer. Shameful.
>>472872668>How can you know the past if the future isn't knownretard
And no I'm not 100% conscientiousness all the time or in every area of my life all the time but it's art of the genetics and genetics make at least 50% of what you will be for the rest of your life.
>>472872276nothing has but God qualitieseven suffering and evil, and a sacrifice for this individuality and experience>>472872313it will matter to you, I dont believe in an eternal hell but I think whatever we do is resolved between the parties involved and GodGod doesnt need to condemn us we are already part of eternity>>472872456I have thought similarly but I think lonely is a very human quality hahah like the French saidbut maybe its about love of being, being such a powerful force, that it sprouts into more beingsand Ive heard, so are we just part of Gods narcissism and I think not, because there is lots of suffering and eternity is already what it is, with or without usGod would be God with or without us, so there must be a good reason to be with us, because love and we are truly individualwe can truly disagree so that means when we agree, that agreement is more powerful!!
>>472862118>Why is the ruling elite so hell-bent on convincing their cattle that a human is just a meat puppet animated by molecular dynamics?they don't do this even tho it is true but the elite are also meat puppets outside their freewill>Why does every state-run institution teach this idea?not a single institution teaches this>Why does every mainstream media outlet promote it?not a single soul promotes this. you are not special you moldovan gipsy faggot kys. >hurr durr the system wants me to think im something other than whatno. you are already posting on (((pol))) the next most normie platform to facebook and shitter so more likely than not you are a total npc here for validation
>>472873018i suppose then the thing to ask God to order our ways to His liking, because one way or another those ways will be judged. Christ have mercy.
>>472872539its not good, it was meant to be, nothing Satan can do is outside of God or what God permitsits must obey a bigger purpose
>>472872063>kikes have warped White European minds with these asinineSeems more like they've warped your minds to not being able to think logically. White men are supposed to be sober and live in reality, and not believe in a bunch of superstition.
>>472873277You pretending to be oblivious because you feel threatened by the facts presented. The truth undermines the legitimacy of your metaphysical dogma.
>>472873155You don't understand. Implying original sin means there is a road to remediation, how do you know the road if your destination is unknowable?
>>472873153i think i did answer. treating even our own desires as if they are not more than one dimensional is thereby not describing things accurately. We all do things we dont really want to do in order to achieve something we really would rather achieve, dont we? i know i do, and have in the past done some things are really didn't want to do in the moment to get something larger done in the longer term.How much more is it complicated with God, who can do and knows all things?
>>472872063exactly, every mud blood is encouraged to have its dipshit fantasies no matter how backward or tribal, mexicans with day of the dead skeleton worship, apes with bones through their noses is A-OK, chinks with their worship of money and the colour red and jews are absolutely saturated with voodoo crap and superstitions - fine with them telling themselves they're the secret chosen ones and that if they tie a string around a city then god can't see them work, but not one ounce of European decency, tradition or culture is sacrosanct, our lives have no deeper meaning, our history and ancestors are mocked, they claim they were all niggers a few hundred years ago, and any number of lies to demoralised and humiliate as you said.short sighted modernist retards go along with it because that's what they've been sold.
>>472873179>it will matter to youYup. Bit what matters to me is irrelevant to what matters to God. Right?
Because the thing about free will is that if one believes they have free will, they tend to behave as if they have free will. When one believes they do not have free will, they start to behave as if they do not have free will. So if you wanted to strip away the free will of a population to make them behave according to your own will instead, a good place to start is convincing the people that they have no free will. Once a person believes they have no free will, they also (consciously or not) inevitably stop believing in morality and accountability at some point, since nothing is really their fault without free will. At this point the individual is "free" to indulge in any and all vices and impulses, and to follow any orders without and moral objections.
>>472872349Because they want slaves who'll tolerate any level of abuse or deprivation.Absolutely this, they want to install their own, new slave morality (inb4 Chr*stcuck spam); whether or not you think that was (((their))) plan too, it doesn't matter, they want for us to accept their definition of humanity, and life = empty, accidental, meaningless, of, and a little selfish too. Don't reproduce, and maybe kill yourself, the world is overpopulated, and, uh, Westerners pollute more than 20 niggers
>>472873703Best post in the thread
>>472873703pretty much. the defense that 'i cant help it' or -that everything is an illness or that you are born that way etc etc etc all goes in this general direction.
>>472873374Europeans are supposed to be Europeans, and value their countries, their people, their history, culture and ancestors for the greatness so far achieved, the struggles they went through. to ignore all of that and cast it aside as nonsense is to denigrate your own forefathers, even your grandparents.that's exactly what they want, whether you see it or not.as I surmised, your brain has been fully terraformed by modernity to the point where you're utterly malleable to whatever ideas they hand to you as long as it fits with "now is better than before", leaving a shallow wreck, a commodity as I stated in the first place.it's a pity. one doesn't need to believe in something to value it.
>>472873703>if you wanted to strip away the free will of a population to make them behave according to your own will instead, a good place to start is convincing the people that they have no free willChristianity 101
>>472873935>>472873945isnt that interesting how we agree on the sentiment of that post and yet have quite different standpoints on the issue.
>>472862118Nigger
>>472873703it's what engendering a state of learned helplessness is designed to do, which is the focus of most demoralisation propaganda dealt out over the last 80 years to an increasing degree.the belief that no matter what action you could try, nothing with have any effect on your situation, so you lie down and take an increasing amount of torture until you die.
>>472873703>Because the thing about free will is that if one believes they have free will, they tend to behave as if they have free will. When one believes they do not have free will, they start to behave as if they do not have free will. So if you wanted to strip away the free will of a population to make them behave according to your own will instead, a good place to start is convincing the people that they have no free will. Once a person believes they have no free will, they also (consciously or not) inevitably stop believing in morality and accountability at some point, since nothing is really their fault without free will. At this point the individual is "free" to indulge in any and all vices and impulses, and to follow any orders without and moral objections.High quality post. You more or less captured my own thoughts on this matter. It's the philosophical component of a system that instills learned helplessness on one hand and releases its subjects from moral culpability on the other.
>>472862594Determinism is the opposite of what satanists believe (lavey)
>>472873613we are born without an apparent choice, we no spiritual memory on this brain, or not apparent in automatized life. But what truly matters to you is what matters to God, what truly matters to you? that is the thinghave you really thought about it, with several layers of "why"? many people that do that, arrive at nihilism of some sort, nothing they thought they wanted, they truly wanted, etcbut I just told you what I want, and I think that aligns with God as well I want this, and I want you to be you, I want that you believe whatever you want to believeits a shame we come to fight and even kill other, or fall for propaganda, over this differences of believes, agendas, material desires etc, but this is not Gods fault nor is my fault or the fault of loving this reality
>>472873703>Once a person believes they have no free will, they also (consciously or not) inevitably stop believing in morality and accountabilityI believe that our choices are bound by cause and effect. Realizing this enables me to make bett3 choices as I understand how impactful my choices can be. And in doing so, I'm able to male an environment that helps to lake better choices with better outcomes
>>472874361>But what truly matters to you is what matters to GodWho's definition of "God"?
>>472874383?
>>472873301>its not good, it was meant to be, nothing Satan can do is outside of God or what God permitsyou've posted a lot of very suspect things in this thread but this i do believe is Biblical and true.
>>472868798they were so happy to be out they forgot the off switch
>>472874318>releases its subjects from moral culpability on the other.Not really, see>>472874389>I believe that our choices are bound by cause and effect. Realizing this enables me to make bett3 choices as I understand how impactful my choices can be. And in doing so, I'm able to male an environment that helps to lake better choices with better outcomes
The only people that generally believe in free will are Christians, yet they are bound by the God that gave it to them, with promises of heaven and threats of hell they are ironically less free than those who reject it.
>>472874564Exactly this
>>472874563>not really>i believeNo one cares what you believe. Your personal anecdotes don't matter, nor does your subjective evaluation of how your beliefs make the world better.
>>472874564>less free than those who reject it.so the non-Christians are free to do what exactly? Lie, steal, be promiscuous, murder, cheat etc? Nice freedom you have there.
>>472874564glad you studied the thousands of religions worldwide to come to that conclusion.
>>472874708>No one cares what you believeYet I've caused you to reply lol>I can't form an argument against youI thought you filtered my ID?
>>472874708what objective truth do you believe you've posted in this thread?
>>472862118pic relatedNietzsche was right, we live in Westworld
>>472874887None, by his own admission this is all subjective
>>472874835>I thought you filtered my ID?I did and I'm adding you back to the filter now. Be sure to shit out dozens more replies addressing me. I'll remove the filter again when the thread dies just to check how obsessed you are with me. :^)
>>472875041interesting
>>472874822keep in mind that the moral structures were in place long before the religion, which is what fervent atheists are oblivious to. religion just formalised them, but they were there to make society more livable and function better.if you behave in a certain way, the people around you also live better lives and you work better together as a whole.third world shitholes filled with rape, murder, theft and perpetual lying clearly don't work well, otherwise they wouldn't be third world shitholes.it's biologically rooted, and culturally entrenched - the one comes from the other and leads to elevation.
>>472874887>what objective truth do you believe you've posted in this thread?Everything I posted ITT is objective truth. I know it's the truth because it makes your like seethe hard.
>>472875078>>I thought you filtered my ID?>I did and I'm adding you back to the filter nowNo you're not lol.
>>472864265>predicting/allowing something is determining itWrong, idiot.
>>472875142thats all fine i suppose. the only thing you would disagree with would be the praying to Jesus.>>472875144>if they disagree with me i rightyes, a very fine standard for judging truth content you have there.
>>472875349Go ahead and show one thing I posted that isn't objectively true. You literally can't.
>>472875144>Everything I posted ITT is objective truthNope>In fact, unless I am arguing something specifically about free will, I ignore such requests because it's difficult to define in a way that would be generally agreed uponThat's you from your previous thread
>>472875142Pseudointellectual britwit mongprattle
>>472875250you're right of course because there could potentially be other ways of knowing the future than by it being determined. The issue of God knowing the future and if God determined it to be that way are different things.
>>472875474See you're comment from the other thread >In fact, unless I am arguing something specifically about free will, I ignore such requests because it's difficult to define in a way that would be generally agreed upon
>>472875474haven't been paying attention to your posts and really dont intend to trawl back through it all now.
>>472875349I don't disagree with itI'm just saying the evangelical atheists spout religious morality as worthless and meaningless, when it is clearly founded in both biology and cultural/societal development. they dislike it and disregard it merely because it is in Christianity, which highlights how clueless and shortsighted they are
>>472875517Midwits gonna midwit bro. I wish I could talk to them without getting irritated and insulting them, personally. We're all flawed in our own ways I suppose. I might be "wise"(only for obeying God and asking for his wisdom really) but I'm very merciless and cruel.
>>472875588>haven't been paying attentionYou should have been, because I am the #1 truth vendor in this thread. The anon who effort-posted this analysis (>>472873703) is a close second.
>>472875514no idea which side you're on and don't care - either you're a deaf eared religious nut or a deaf eared atheist nut.if you studied theism even briefly you'd find and read the same as I've just said. you're an illiterate cunt though, so you won't.
>>472875748>I am the #1 truth vendor in this thread.Lol>In fact, unless I am arguing something specifically about free will, I ignore such requests because it's difficult to define in a way that would be generally agreed uponNo lol
>>472875628ahh ok i get you a bit better now. of course i would say that its literally built into our reality because God created that reality, and that we need to be reminded of it constantly because our natures are corrupted and alienated from Gods reality by Sin.
>>472875827Why do you keep posting that quote as if it proves anything? Do you suffer from literal mental retardation?
>>472862282>so that you will obey your base lustsI only obey lace busts.
>>472875990>Why do you keep posting that quote as if it proves anything?It proves thst your opinions are subjective.>I'm totally gonna filter you!I keep causing you to reply;^)
>>472875776>arrogant faggot autistically screeching about how well read he isTypical teanigger. Glad we kicked your asses in BOTH world wars.
>>472876216>It proves thst your opinions are subjectiveHow does it do that?
