I live in Charlotte. I should be able to go watch a real baseball team rather than "Chicago White Sox 2". Charlotte is plenty big enough to support an independent minor league team. Imagine if every small city had a home town team the city could get behind rather than just some farm team that people watch to drink beer while the game happens in the background. Would be soul and peak Americana. Imagine people in Des Moines going out and supporting their local baseball team. There could be local rivalries, kind of like we have in college sports. I know there are some independent leagues, but they seem to only be in very small markets passed up by the farm teams. The farm teams should all be in the suburbs of the main team, so the AAA Chicago White Sox affiliate should be the "Schaumberg White Sox" or something.
>>144522365if you havent already, check out The Battered Bastards of Baseballkurt russells dad owns an independent baseball team in portland in the 70s
>>144522599sounds kino
>>144522686it is. great story and explains a lot about why theres no competition for MiLB.
my rivercats :)
Absolutely agreed anon and also minor league teams have SOVL names. Baseball could easily sustain something akin to lower league football in England and its sad that it doesn't.
>>144523904America was right to integrate sports into education heavily early on, but viewed taking it semi-seriously as an adult as arrested development to a degree. That's ultimately what led to allowing the cartel system shit to flourish. You guys didn't really grasp the concept of it being part of educational foundation but better grasp it being a part of healthy adult lifestyleIt's been obfuscated a lot over time but ultimately that's explanation of differences on the two sides
>>144523904Exactly. If you guys can have as many pro teams as you have, each of our cities could easily support self-sustaining minor leagues. Baseball could be way more soulfulI mean, several of our cities with MiLB teams have minor league soccer teams even.
nobody would go because the level of play would be absolute dogshit. nobody would sign with these indy teams because, shocker i know, good young baseball players want to make the majors eventually and doing that entails entering the draft/signing with a MLB team and playing affiliated ball. even if what you say is true and these cities could support teams(they cant) and pay decent wages like 100k+ a year(they won't) any baseball player with any decent ability is still going to take the small signing bonus and shitty affiliated minor league salary to get a shot at the big leagues and the big bucks.
>>144529188yeah, but heckin sovl or something
>>144523904On a similar note it's a shame there isn't really minor league football. I know there's the college game but that isn't really the same.
>>144529188The only time the MiLB stadium in my city has filled up was for neutral site college games, which have way lower quality of play. People don't even care what happens on the field at all at MiLB games right now. They're just there to drink beer or because of whatever promotion is offered. >even if what you say is true and these cities could support teams(they cant) How are they able to support minor league independent soccer teams then?
>>144529188Waldorf, Maryland has supported an independent league team for 16 years, but apparently you don't think Nashville, Louisville, Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond can?
>>144529188people still go to lower league football in this country, and players still play for these teams because that's their level
>>144529683Thinking that people care about the quality of play at the Minor league baseball teams they attend is delusional. But I've also had people on this board insist that MiLB teams have fans (they don't).
>>144529427>People don't even care what happens on the field at all at MiLB games right now.Nothing would change.Affiliation doesn't make that big of a difference.People just don't give a shit about lower league competitions very much. Drinking beer, watching some baseball and maybe getting to see a player that will turn pro is the only reason people would ever go see any minor league game.>The only time the MiLB stadium in my city has filled up was for neutral site college gamesWeird cherry-pick.There are less than 20 college teams with per-game attendance averages that beat the average MiLB team. Texas Tech averages about 4k per game, which ranks 17th in Division I NCAA baseball attendance. That would be 62nd in MiLB, right behind the Akron Rubberducks. And of course, MiLB plays more games so college ball doesn't come anywhere close to their total attendance numbers. (92k for Texas Tech, 266k for the Rubberducks)
>>144529683Attendance for AAA Minor League baseball is barely below EFL League One on a per-game basis (and mostly higher on a per-season basis as they play 3x as many games as EFL).OP is a delusional faggot with an intense, irrational hatred of the farm system.>>144529716>But I've also had people on this board insist that MiLB teams have fans (they don't).They do have fans. Not in numbers large enough for someone like you to notice, but there will never be numbers that large no matter what. There are 120 minor league teams. There's never going to be a world where anyone but a handful of diehards care that the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers beat the Lake County Guardians in the (High-A) Midwest League Championship series.
>>144531130Pretending to be a real team when you're actually a farm team is retarded. Just straight up be Atlanta Braves 2, don't try to pretend you're the "Gwinnett Stripers" a totally separate and legitimate team
Strange how soccer, a much less popular sport in this country, has two independent minor leagues with 36 teams yet it is impossible for baseball?
>>144531402MLB has a legal monopoly due to a Supreme Court ruling in the 1920’s that gave the National League exemption to anti-trust laws. They used it to squash the other leagues and turn them into the minor league farm system
>>144531661finallywatch the battered basterds of baseball, bros. it explains everything and its a lot of fun
There's already tons of indy ball leagues, they are succesful enough to exist but still irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. there's even an indy ball team in the Charlotte metro area, you've probably never even heard of it. I always see people say things like this and that promotion/relegation could work for baseball but no it absolutely cannot, the sport simply is not popular enough for that. The only sport here where a "european" system could possibly work is football because football is king and because the limited number of games would allow a team to thrive in any even mid sized city, fans only have to show up for 8 games a season. football fans also watch whatever team is on, it doesn't matter what team is on monday night football or the sunday nationally televised games, twenty million people will watch anyway.but even with football other leagues struggle to compete with the NFL and any attempts to create other leagues always end up folding. can't compete with the NFL, NFL would have to work directly with other leagues for them to succeed.
>>144537057its cant work because if a team/league is successful MLB can buy them out for less than its worth so nobody is willing to invest. the core of the problem is the thousands of 30 year olds who are better than the 20 year old MLB prospects but not good enough to break through to MLB. affiliated teams want to develop prospects. independent teams want to win and make affiliate teams look bad. mlb cannot stand for that and they have the legal standing to squash any successful independent team
these stupid names like Sod Poodles and Chungus Bois are cringe
>>144531402It's not strange at all. Soccer is in the unique situation of being an immensely popular sport worldwide with youth soccer being established and gaining popularity only in the 1960s. Between immigrants and a generation of millennials who grew up playing soccer, there was unmet demand for professional soccer and capital to recruit international players.The MLS is first tier in name only, it's not a true top-tier international league (Even if you really enjoy watching retirement Messi and Luis Suarez run circles around MLS defenses).>>144531162>legitimateAs if developing talent for transfer fees and other incentives wouldn't exist without affiliation.You're so naive. You watched one sensationalized conspiracy documentary and think you're an expert.
>>144537057>I always see people say things like this and that promotion/relegation could work for baseball but no it absolutely cannot, the sport simply is not popular enough for that. The only sport here where a "european" system could possibly work is football because football is king and because the limited number of games would allow a team to thrive in any even mid sized city, fans only have to show up for 8 games a seasonI think a big problem with gridiron football is the massive difference in power level between leagues and potential risks for an inadequately prepared team. Dinamo Zagreb may have some injured pride but a sufficiently lopsided match in gridiron football will have you scraping the losers off the field.
>>144547694>As if developing talent for transfer fees and other incentives wouldn't exist without affiliation.It would, but the teams would be real. Doesn't mean they can't develop talent to sell to teams in bigger leagues. Soccer teams across the world do that, but they're still real teams with a management who is attempting to win. You do understand that the Gwinnett Stripers isn't a real team, right? Its a reserve/development squad for the Atlanta Braves. They should just be called "Atlanta Braves 2" rather than LARPing as their own thing, because they aren't their own thing.
>>144547694>The MLS is first tier in name only, it's not a true top-tier international leaguePretty irrelevant to this discussion. MLS is the top tier league of the USA. USLC is the second tier league of USA. USL1 is the third tier league of USA. All three are composed of independent teams whose goal is to win. The soccer equivalent to MiLB teams are those in MLS Next Pro. Most do brand their reserve teams as [Team] 2. A few went for the MiLB route and branded it as a nearby city (Nashville FC, Seattle Sounders, San Jose Earthquakes, Dallas FC did this). There's also a few independent teams in MLSNP: Carolina Core FC, Chattanooga FC and 3 more are joining in the next few years. MLSNP wanted their reserve squads to have experience against older players and the MLSNP expansion fees are way lower than that of USL1, so its seen as the cheaper alternative.
>>144522365how would they pay for it?
>>144548868Same way USL-Championship pays for it.
>>144548296>You do understand that the Gwinnett Stripers isn't a real team, right? Its a reserve/development squad for the Atlanta Braves.A "development squad" is a "real team". You've invented the dichotomy in your head and made it out to be infinitely important when in the real world it's not important at all. The teams playing in these leagues would be marginally more competitive with the changes you envision. Most changes would be in coaching and management and would change very little about game to game play. Viewership and enthusiasm would not change at all. They'd play the same number of games. They'd try just about as hard to win as they do now. Attendance would be about the same as it is now. Media coverage would be the same at best and might possibly be even worse given the lack of MLB support and local awareness.>>144548433>Pretty irrelevant to this discussion.It's relevant because it means there's less serious competition for viewers within the given domain. Either USL league competing with MLS for attention isn't remotely the same as some new independent baseball league trying to compete with the massively successful, famous and well-established MLB.
>>144547193Far less cringe than the way MLS names ape European club names.>Real [reˈal] Salt Lake
>>144547193i am aware of a team called the "trash pandas"
>>144549528well yeah everything MLS does is cringe, it's soccer
>>144551263American versions of things are always cringe
>>144551603>flag copeWe stay on their minds, Americhads
>>144522365>I know there are some independent leagues, but they seem to only be in very small markets passed up by the farm teams. The farm teams should all be in the suburbs of the main team, so the AAA Chicago White Sox affiliate should be the "Schaumberg White Sox" or something.I agree with thisIt's weird and doesn't make sense why very farm team is scattered everywhere when there's tons of independent league teams right by major league counterpartsCharlotte can get the Boomers and the Knights can move to SchaumburgIt would make much more sense this way
