Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321>Previous thread:>>93103452>TQ:>Gynosphinx riddles. Do you have any good ones? A book to steal them from? Or are they just lame and to be avoided like the plague?
Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3. Make a dungeon setpiece>4. Make a wilderness setpiece>5. Make a city setpiece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon>9. Make a trap.>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>What's OSR?>How do I get started?See attached PDF. New version (0.05) with small FAQ included.
anons, how do you describe rooms where the party doesnt have enough light to illuminate the whole thing? im struggling a bit
"you can't see the rest of the room"TQ: Lame.
>>93134465It depends on how much bigger the room is. If it's just a bit bigger the range of illumination, and unless instructed otherwise by the players, I just assume that the characters enter the room, take a good look around, and give a full description, usually writing off a whole turn for that. And in any case it's not like the illumination goes abruptly from 100 to 0, you can assume that they still kinda make out the walls of the room if they're 10' further out than the range of illumination from the entrance.If the room is immense like picrel, I just describe what's visible from the entrance.
The OSR sphere likes to design a lot of lvl 1 to 3 adventures. An order of magnitude more of them than later lvl adventures. Is this what the people want?
>>93134465Generally I describe a rough amount of the room closest to where the party has entered and add something like >the rest of the cavern extends past your light and into the gloom >your torch light doesn't reach the ceiling of this hall, the birdcages and chains disappearing into the darkness >the collapsed library extends beyond your light *rolls for wandering monster* What's the key to a room you had trouble with and how was the party approaching it?
>>93134510They're in general easier to design so there's more of them. The composition and milieu of early level play tends to be more standardized and dungeon focused. After that there's enough player/world engagement that the DM is making their own material because its the only stuff that will fit well.
>>93134510I can only speak for myself, but I think that starting characters are too limited to be as much fun. Having only one spell per day (or none), having thieving skills that succeed only one eighth of the time, dying to one random hit... that's something to work past, and the challenge can be rewarding, but it's certainly not the most fun part of the game for me. I'd say the best levels are 3 through 7. 3rd level characters are still a bit limited, but they're a lot more robust and capable than when they started out. Hit points are starting to get out of hand by level 7, but they're still manageable.But assuming you're not skipping ahead (and some people do, but others don't), you need to do a level 1-3 adventure before doing higher level ones, so you naturally need more of those.
How do you like your hex maps? Symbols (triangle = mountain), cartographic doodles (that may or may not correspond accurately to hexes), or some kind of hybrid (pic related)?
>>93134510Wasn't the point of No ArtPunk to explore higher level stuff?
>>93134773Referee facing:Hex ID number at the bottom, Colors for biomes, no decoration.Map key number on the hex.Player facing:No trace of hexes,Map made in Gimp / ++
>>93134773>Referee facing:Don't care what symbols are used, as long as 1. There's not too much coffee table artbook faggotry like picrel. 2. Each clearly corresponds to a specific terrain type to apply the wilderness travel/exploration rules.>Player facing:Blank hexmap.
>>93134773>DM facing hex map with numbers to key, chits for locations of forces/factions, mixed symbols and doodles >Player facing rough in game-world-map they can add to as they see fit/exploreOld picture but this is mine, the players hang onto theirs.
>>93134893SOVLWhat are you using to hold the chits in place?
>>93134773Referee Facing: Symbols for terrain, towns, ruins etc., Hex ID on the bottom.Players: Hex map with only well-known areas. The players draw in things they find on the map as they find it. There are some well-known/rumored ruins on the map to encourage exploration.
>>93134938Old hex & chit magnetic holders, iirc this style isn't commonly available compared to the newer ones. Basically the same thing as magnetic label holders. You could probably make them whatever size you need by cutting them up.
>>93134893>>93134972I wondered what these were for a second, that's a great idea. Does the insert stick in OK if you aren't using an edge piece?
character sheet?
>>93135743By playing 1974-1983 D&D the Gygaxian way.
>>93135744
>>93135743Play more games. Run some open tables if you are so inclined. Beyond that there isn't much to do.
>>93135811Enlightened reply
>>93134407I get this, how I run it is they can pick which weapon status/effect, not both.How would you approach dual wielding?
>>93136191Shut up fag
>>93134775Originally, it was to make adventures meant to be played, not read. But I haven't paid attention since the second one.
>>93136191>was meant to be a free-wheeling game, only loosely bound by the parameters of the rulesWent out the window with Supplement 1 which stifled several potential avenues for LBB developmentAlso hilarious that you lump AD&D "you can change these rules but only these rules otherwise you're playing parody knock-off, faggot" 1e with the others
>>93136191It is already. Read the OP.OSR encompasses all of the Gygaxian D&D TSR games, all derivative games that bear a mechanical fidelity to them, as played in a manner consistent with a romanticized version of how the Gygaxian era adventures, tournaments, and campaigns played.This does, of course, NOT mean that "anything is OSR, man!" - because it is not. No one will judge you for playing different games or different genres: just don't label them as something they are not and don't bring them to places where they don't belong.You wouldn't bring your 2004 Acura to a classic car convention; you wouldn't bring Axis & Allies or Arkham Horror to a Eurogame expo; in the same vein - don't bring NuSR, WotC, or whatever else Plebbit lied to sell to you on Itch.io here.
>>93136200Understandable, have a good day.>>93136363I mean, there are many quotes after supplement 1.>>93136372I see, this is why I tell people I just run B/X, not OSR. I dig it, thank you for the well thought out comment.
>>93136046>How would you approach dual wielding?By the book: -2 to hit with the right hand, -4 to hit with the left hand, penalty reduced by a dexterity bonus (if present) capped by armour bulk / encumbrance.
>>93136600Should have added that whether encumbrance caps the dexterity reduction of the dual-wielding penalty is debatable and possibly wrong RAW. I have gone back and forth on this a few times. So alternatively, and probably more correctly:>By the book: -2 to hit with the right hand, -4 to hit with the left hand, penalty reduced by a dexterity bonus (if present).Notice that a dexterity bonus of +3 or greater cannot change the penalty into a bonus under any circumstance.
>>93136635This is ADND, not B/X.That said I find -2 -4 needlessly complicated and almost anathema to B/X.
>>93136667>This is ADND, not B/X.So what? The Anon I replied to never specified which system he was referring to, and when a rule is missing from B/X you look up AD&D anyway.>-2 -4 is complicatedlol ok
>>93136685Why would anyone pick to dual wield with such a huge penalty?Although, that may be the point.
>>93136742>Why would anyone pick to dual wield with such a huge penalty?It's not at all a huge penalty, it is a perfectly reasonable modifier. Do the maths and check for yourself: Even with an average dexterity, dual-wielding deals more damage on average when the chances to hit are relatively high and less damage when the chances to hit are relatively low, which makes it situationally better, as it should be (or everyone would just be dual wielding).
>>93136191If this is 100% honest you are 100% retarded
>>93134447>No character backgrounds. All characters are defined by the desire to become rich and powerful. >implying there are no clerics sent on a holy quest or out to preach the word of their faithSoulless.
>>93134422I am the first and sometimes the lastMy initials are over poweredMy thread question is lameThis riddle does not rhymeWHO AM IOP
>>93137125https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YYNPnql9YIt. OP
>>93134465>Describe the bits they can see>Add at the end 'And beyond your torchlight the rest of the room is in darkness'>If there's anything metal or reflective (gold coins, orc eyes, iron golem penises, ect), add 'But in the darkness you can see the light reflecting off something about [X] feet away, give or take'Simple
>>93137014People who take that pdf seriously don't play games, they use /osrg/ as a replacement for having a real human interaction and dream about how perfect their westmarches campaign could be.
>>93137014Agreed. One of the best OSR set ups you could ask for is 'You fuckers are a cult. Go forth for El pollo diablo and thrive'
>>93137916That's just a setup, though, done in like a sentence or two. What the PDF is talking about are modern-style "backgrounds" where you write up a page or two of backstory for your character before play.
>>93138025Also a setup is a DM thing, backgrounds are a player's doing
>>93138025It still requires a degree of backstory from the players though.Someone has to be the high priest after all.Keep in mind I'm not saying this to try and be a fuckhead. I'm just saying that a group backstory beyond 'You're all a bunch of money grubbing assholes in need of a down payment on a small military unit' can add some spice and send the party off in a different direction (It works even better if you add additional XP options)A sandbox that starts with 'You're a band of slavers and get XP-for-gold from chain gangs' is going to give a group a different mental priority list to 'You're a quartet of professional duellists, killers for hire by the nobility. They don't ever pay you in gold, but they do pay you in rumours and magic weapons.''
>>93137014No harm running some former profession list if it's to your taste.You can also skip the "skill" part of this pic.
Thoughts on square grid wilderness maps? Any reason to avoid? Diagonals would just be 1.5 distance I guess. It would be easier to create maps from scratch and has better scaling potential, like zooming in on a tile and expanding it to multiple sub tiles. Like dwarf fortress.
>>93138246You can zoom in on hexes by subdividing the hex.
>>93138228These are just tradespeople professions though. Maybe that's fine, characters are supposed to be nobodies. But you'd expect some soldiers, priests, criminals, savages, etc.
>>93138256It's not clean though. But it's nbd to use something like that, just slightly more OCD impacting.
>>93138267Cleric is a priest.Fighter is a veteran.Thief.They probably grew up doing some kind of labor before becoming your video game 3D asset.
>>93138277Stop presuming my mindset because video games have nothing to do with why I suggested the list seems limited. Notice that "scribe" appears nowhere on the list, yet it's a job of measurable worth and we can imagine a spellcaster having been a scribe. Just an example.
>>93138325>why I suggested the list seems limited.Expand it to your own tastes, or don't.
>>93138325Back in the 1970s, we had more time. Days were 27 hours long and there were twelve days in the weekend. But even then, character generation was an obstacle to getting the game going. Sessions ended before the party got to the dungeon and potential new players quit rather than try to decide how to spend their 30–180 GP on a list of items of obscure purpose. Experienced players in the thread view your faggotry about backstory from this perspective.
>>93138325>>93137206>>93137206
>>93138325Here, try this on for size. It's meant for DCC funnels but it works fine for anything else. You get a background that implies an adventure (un)worthy skill, a weapon, and an item. One roll, ready to go.
>>93138573Aren't most of the people in this thread in their 30s?
>>93138325
>>93138246There's a WFRP book, Renegade Crowns, or something along those lines, that had a grid-based map generation method complete with ruin and prince and village generation, a whole DIY sandbox in a book. A single box was 4 square miles I think. Wouldn't be hard to port it over to D&D to be honest.
>>93139028I have no idea why I uploaded that picture or what I was going to say about it.
>>93139028>>93138274There's any amount of hex alignment inside the hex to choose from.If you don't like one, keep searching.
>>93138944Bro looking to get FOEGYGed?
>>93138916Maybe at some point in the past. Now it seems these threads are mostly 12 year olds
>>93139081
>>93136046I've talked about this here before, but: roll a completely unmodified d10 for your secondary weapon (as chosen by you). You hit on a 1. This is roughly equivalent to getting a +2 bonus to hit on a single attack, but hitting with your secondary weapon if you hit because of your bonus (roughly equivalent in terms of the average damage you inflict, but with the d10 method, some of the time you're hitting with both weapons, while the attack bonus method shifts all of your secondary weapon boost over to the times your primary weapon misses).
>>93138277>Cries videogame over people wanting to adding more Role to their Roleplaying game.The truest sign of a projecting nogame
I liked the equipment availability rolling in B5 Horror on the Hill so I've kept it around for whenever the party try to buy something at a remote village, a random merchant caravan, etc.Item Availability: Roll 1d4. On a 2+, the character can buy the item.Item Cost: Roll 1d6. 1-3: The item is book price. 4-5: The item is 1.5x the normal price. 6: The item is 2x the normal price.
>>93139880Any red Liechtenstein?I like availability checks. I usually wouldn't to it for basic equipment unless the players are in an exceptionally small settlement. Maybe I should.>"Yes. I am telling you that not a single shop in this major city can sell you a shovel right now"
>>93135360I've found some of my older chits get the corner lifted up a bit but the newer ones are a bit thinner so slide in well. Especially if I put them in one corner first and follow the edge under the magnet tab.
>>93138085Both of those sound really lame and like they railroad the players right out the gate. The magical swords instead of gp bullshit in particular.
>>93138267>>93138277
>>93138573>back in the dayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3LEBflDhek
>>93140174NTA but it'd be railroading if they could never break the contract with these nobles, the game just happened to unfold in them always assassinating the person they're sent to kill, etc. At some point some people in this thread started believing any kind of narrative whatsoever is "railroading" and "storyshitting" (inb4 someone quotes this and says "it is"). You might as well play heroquest.
>>93140231If they can get xp for gp later it helps but its still a much more confining start than>you are a variety of down and our ne'er-do-wells trying to gain power, money and famecompared to >you are given quests by nobles and they give you magic swords Fucking lame.
>>93140231>At some point some people in this thread started believing any kind of narrative whatsoever is "railroading" and "storyshitting"That's just folks meme'ing, relax my dude
>>93138085>You're a quartet of professional duellists, killers for hire by the nobility. They don't ever pay you in gold, but they do pay you in rumours and magic weapons.'Holy Mother of Railroading.
>>93138277>>93138267>>93138228tangentially related to this "job" thing, but sometimes I've seen people assume that the PC at level 1 are jobless, failed people doing dangerous things for desperation/greed. While the greed part might be true, I utterly find the first part nonsensical, a level 1 fighting men is a veteran, someone skilled in his trade, a level 1 magic user is someone that succeeded where many others failed and obtained the ability to shape reality to his will, they start with lots of money (around 100 gp) which is more than a few months of pay for a laborer, they are doing the adventure business for some reason, yes, but not desperation.The fact that they might have another trade under their belt (sailor, butcher etc) just shows how good they are.
>>93139686I called him a video gamer because he didn't know that that there were already thiefs, veterans and priests in DnD.My weekly session starts in 3 hours and 36 min.
>>93141757Why videogamer? From how he put it, he's just someone who's never heard of level titles, so either a WotCfag or a 2etard:>>93138267>you'd expect some soldiers, priests, criminals, savages, etc.
>>93141778Statistically more likely that he's played a bunch of video games than read WOTC stuff or 2E.
>>93141788Is it? I don't know how kids roll these days, so I might well be wrong.
>>93141794NTA, but yes, tabletop is a very small niche compared to the great unwashed masses of vidjeo game players. (Emphasis on unwashed, lol)
>>93141794"In 2022, the revenue from the worldwide gaming market was estimated at almost 347 billion U.S. dollars, with the mobile gaming market generating an estimated 248 billion U.S. dollars of the total."Source: StatistaTTRPGS:REPORT COVERAGE DETAILSMarket Size Value In US$ 1539.52 Million in 2022Source: Business Research InsightsHome computers, smartphones, game consoles (new and inherited from parents and siblings).Compared to finding and actually reading WOTC books.
>>93141827>>93141794TTRPG as a market is 99.6% smaller compared to video games.
>>93141805>>93141827>>93141876Sure, but that's a sample of the whole population, not of those who actually end up picking up old and obscure D&D books. No reason to expect the demographics to be the same.
>>93141891With a 99+% larger market I find it reasonable.
How do I better emulate the Sword & Sorcery genre, anons? I want to channel the energy of weirdness and adventure that Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser get up to.
>>93141998>How do I betterDo you have any examples of what you think you could do better?
>>93141602>>93140174>Giving players hooks to work off is railroadingThere's nothing that says they have to go with it, all it does is give a unified purpose and opportunities they can go after or not.You might as well say 'Having dungeons is railroading' because after all, going into the dungeon is a superior option to not going in there, after all there's gold, gear and goons in dungeons.Now if the only way to get XP or sick magic swords was to do those things, that'd be a railroad.Though, again, funnily I never hear anyone saying that having the main source of GP and thus XP being ruins is railroading.>>93140231I'd say railroading would be 'You're working for [X] noble who is bullshit powerful and owns your legal contract, he pulls the chain and you bark'. Letting players know there's various powerful factions and said factions have their own agendas that players can go along with or go against is as legit in the overworld as it is in the dungeon.
>>93142362>There's nothing that says they have to go with it"You ARE a quartet of professional duellists, killers for hire by the nobility" does exactly that, since it establishes that that is already the situation.Also the DM handing out handpicked magic items for playing along with the railroad is weaponised Hickmantardery.>I never hear anyone saying that having the main source of GP and thus XP being ruins is railroading.Because not everyone is as stupid as you are, thank fucking God. That is a rule of the game. It is as much railroading as "Fireball does 1d6 damage per level".
>>93142415>It's different because muh authoritative sou-Nice try, but it isn't.
>>93142362>>93142506>XP for gold is railroadingLeaving aside how retarded your claim obviously is to anyone with half a brain, it seems that...>you're just making excuses because one is writ upon the ancient stones and that makes you nut in your gusset while the other isn't.the root problem is that you don't like OSR games. Which is perfectly fine, there's more RPGs to buy than different tastes in RPGs, but then what are you doing here?>>93142534>muh authoritative sou-And you (assuming you're not samefagging). You don't like OSR, cool. Play whatever else you prefer. Have fun.
>>93142323Adventures that have a similar pace and larger than life NPC.
>>93142636D&D is not a novel or a movie, and novels and movies are not D&D. There are some aspects of novels that you can and probably even *should* emulate, but pacing is not one of them, given the interactive and open-ended nature of D&D. Pacing is mostly dictated by the players. DM has some influence on it, but excessive attempts to control it can backfire.Similarly, I am not 100% sure what you mean by "larger than life", but NPCs you I best too much time and energy into can be a bit of a double-edged sword, if they become overbearing.
>>93142636>>93142685>but NPCs you I best too much inbut NPCs you *invest* too much int. phonefag
>>93142545You HAVE to let me play a tiefling, it's in the rules.
Gary said so!
>>93142764SOVL, i'll play as a pixie and there is nothing you can do about it
>>93142724>>93142764>>93142951I am a strict OSR grog, with a strong preference for the 1974-1979 period, and I have zero problems with someone playing a Pixie under the right circumstances. E.g. a combination of experienced player, second or third character, Pixies already determined to be in the setting, possibly faction / adversarial play.No idea what a "Tiefling" is supposed to be, it's not in any of my books, so it's a no because of that.
>>93142724>>93142764>>93142951>>93143034And Dragons are fine too. In fact, in my experience players play Dragons in adversarial play better than I do, because having perfect knowledge I tend to pull punches because I don't want to abuse my power and be a dick, whereas an adversarial player feels more free and ends up being more creative, making the sessions *much* more engaging.
>>93141744ntayrtI think the concepts around desperation or greed vary but working with the idea of L1 Fighting Men being veterans of some conflict, wars come and go, could be a down season and they're in need of food despite war being on hold. Magic Users are iirc, recently graduated apprentices who have been cast out into the world. So experienced but also need to get their shit together. They're not sucking dick in the back alleyway but they're not comfortable by any means. They're mostly only good at unusual violence and not good at traditional command structure or cast systems so into the dungeon adventuring they go.
>>93142362The interesting difference it seems, is how flexible treasure for xp is compared to specific items for xp. In the same way abstracted currency is useful to irl because we can turn that compartmentalized free time into a variety of things based on circumstance, treasure for xp is very flexible compared to only being paid in swords be it irl or fantasy land. Sure you could then go through a variety of steps to turn the swords into gp, but you're now adding extra steps instead of starting with the more useful option. Sounds like you have the right idea about various factions though and it would largely work out.
>>93142724>>93142764>>93142951You did this last weekend. If you're trying to be le ebin memer make a 4 panel of the anime girl on the internets getting older and jaded but its gary and its od&d ou acn play a dragon to ad&d dmg 'players can't handle playing a dragon' and then maybe an extra panel of tieflings.
>>93141876>99.6% smaller>Now with nearly 100% more less!Don't phrase it like that, it's dumb. The video game market is 225 times the size of the tabletop market, or the tabletop market is 0.4% of the size of the videogame market.
>>93134436Might not be easily osr implementable, but ive been thinking of a concept or setpiece:The idea is that some powerful lord or magnate has a force of duel bodygaurds and assassins/infiltration specialists. However, their role as assassins is not primarily used to kill enemies, but to test and refine the defenses of the bodygaurd unit itself.In every event or gathering a few of the bodygaurds attempt to subdue the magnate, by the dictate of the magnate themselves. And the rest of the bodygaurds try to prevent this. This ensures both the active attentiveness of the bodygaurds always, as they always know there is a threat, simulated or real at all times. As well as intimate knoledge of infiltration techniques and protocols, since they are the ones who also try to poke and prod at any situational weakness.This all means, that if the PC's are trying to assassinate or otherwise offend the magnate or his possessions, they are liable to run into other parties doing the same in simulation. in the vents, in disguise, and in the shadows. And the gaurds themselves will be more attentive to these things as well.A high level/player experience setpiece.
>>93143357>its od&d ou acn play a dragonCall a Bondulance.
>>93143816
I'm sure this will get deleted like every other post in this general, but would it be OK to make a ''old school dungeons and dragons'' or maybe just a ''Dungeons and Dragons General'' so we could talk about older dungeons and dragons and the copycats without grognards derailing everything into a purity battle?I just want to talk about our old school dnd games and not argue about what OSR is or isn't.Any time any thought provoking comment is brought up it's instantly deleted and given a warning by the overzealous jani.
>>93144056Nothing stops you from making a thread anon. Doesn't even have to be a general. You can just ask a question or two, get some feedback and the thread can fall off when its done. Keeping generals specifically focused helps have a standardized locus and discussion. You're not being persecuted by the grogs. You just need to learn to stand on your own instead of craving validation from an imaginary dad you don't even like.
>>93143722https://youtu.be/5ZWWSwghSN0
>>93144056>I just want to talk about our old school dnd games and not argue about what OSR is or isn'tI gotchu, bro.1. Consider how OSR is defined for the purpose of this general.2. Is what you want to talk about on-topic? Post it here.3. Is what you want to talk about off-topic? Make a new thread.
>>93144268Sure, the OP has this:>>93134422>Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.But when anyone brings up something not strictly RAW, the entire thread just goes downhill. It honestly should say "Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D and the playstyles within that first decade only."
>>93144419When it's not a case of people getting angry that something they would like to be on-topic isn't, it's usually a case of people only looking for positive feedback and going butthurt when their "genius" ideas are criticised for having been tried hundreds of times already and proven not to work.There are communities pandering to both types by making anything anybody likes on-topic and forbidding or strongly discouraging negative feedback. The first thing is doable on 4chan (just make an anything goes thread, or something that is defined broadly enough), but the second one is just not how this place rolls.For that, a few options to survive here remain:1. Accept that some of your ideas are just neither novel nor good.2 Or at the very least that they are not well received by this particular community, and they don't need to be.3. Get over it.4. Grow a thicker skin.
>>93144530Thieves should have the same hit die as Clerics, albeit.
>>93144419Oh and by the way, this:>and the playstyles within that first decade onlyis not even correct, as is explained at least once a month in this general, lately in the very last thread:>>93120383Read the text in the image again, and take it in.
>>93144555>Thieves should have the same hit die as Clerics, albeit."Should" is a retarded way to put it, but it's a common enough houserule if that's what you want to do. Daniel "Delta" Collins did that in OED, for example, and nobody lost sleep over it. He's still well regarded in the community.
>>93144609This, it's a minor tweak, it doesn't fuck with the playstyle in any meaningful way. Not like "you all are assassins who work for these guys and you do missions for them and get magic items as payment, now go do the job/jobs I assign you" which is way more shitty. How do players level up in that arrangement without it being XP-for-quests or milestones or whatever new-school crap?
>>93144419>I don't want to argue about what osr is all the time I want to talk about off topic things >gets told to make other threads >stays and argues about what osr is instead You're a beaten housewife.
>>93144642>now go do the job/jobs I assign you" which is way more shitty. How do players level up in that arrangement without it being XP-for-quests or milestones or whatever new-school crap?New-school players fall into the trap of thinking a narrow scope is better because it's condensed and limit in complexity.Conducting a string of assassinations is fun as emergent gameplay but trash as the whole campaign.
>>93141757>Only one game a week.Might as well be a nogame.
>>93144056>>93144101>>93144268>>93144419>>93144530>>93144563>>93145112Fixed that for you>>93145581
>>93144123I was so fucking disappointed as a kid that the pink panther was not animated, and did not have any animation in it, who framed roger rabbit style. I remember sitting through it ignoring the irl stuff till the end and going. “wtf is this shit? i didnt see the pink panther at all”
Tim Kask says in this Q&A that he had a technique for running a game with 8-16 players. Did he ever describe this technique somewhere?
>>93146494OYFG same.
>>93146632Not to be a dick, but why do you think you need a special technique? I've been in several games with 12-13 players and you run the game just like you would one with 4. In fact, very large tables were the norm in the early days.
>>93147316You probably want them to elect a caller to wrangle players for you if you're gonna have a big table like that.
Fellas... the desert on the outdoor survival map makes no sense.... fuck.... and why is half the encounter table for the desert in od&d fucking martians?....
>>93147554Because BARSOOOOOOOM
>>93147600Oh yeah, duh. Never cared for burroughs
>>93147554Just roll 1d6 for standard deserts, that's the reason "Mars" and all the 7-12 entries are in parentheses.
What the fuck is going onNow there's a BX general
>>93147898It's the "oft-touted purity spiral," I guess. Guy asked a question in the "AD&D" general and got told about 3d6dtl's exploration XP thing (that was already discussed here like a week ago) when he could have just asked here if he wasn't afraid of the Mean Old Grogs™ that Hate Fun™. It's kinda ridiculous, like we got an influx of thin-skinned weenies who can't handle it when some random anon dislikes their house rules.
>>93147898>no LBB generalCowards!
>>93147898This is better than having an "all-encompassing" OSR general.
>>93147898Followed by a Holmes one. While funny in its own way, this guy really needs his meds. I've never seen anyone so assblasted by a 15-year-old definition of a niche hobby before.
>>93147898It's just some fag samefagging because he's upset we aren't an outpost of that one reddit board. >makes new thread asking about his narrativist shit houserule>instant in-depth response>thread dies
>>93134436Knot Golem8 Foot tall humanoid composed of tightly wound ropes of differing colors. Emerging from it's back is a golden strand that collapses the golem when pulled (Requires attack role).AC 6[13]HD 4Att +4 (2x Fist 1d8 or 1x Fist 1d8 and 1x Lasso to constrict for 1d6 per round. Save vs Paralysis to resist)MV 60'Saves F4ML 12AL NeutralNA 1
>>93147953>3d6dtl's exploration XP thingMy biggest issue with the channel has always been the 2 dozen house rules that have been applied over the year of play that constantly makes it worse. It is a great example of not understanding the game from lack of examples OSE provides. The house rules seem gimmicky and spiteful towards the players. The players don't even know what the procedures are anymore and over think every obstacle to the point of the DM just hand waving it as acceptable to keep the story rolling. >Shields stopped improving AC when they got magical shields, instead you can choose to "block" as a combat action.>No reaction rolls, instead funny voices>Set HP at first level and damage based on HD allow every 1st level to get one shotted, but complex death and dying rules to add to the dice slog>All 1st level magic users get 4 spells +read magic+ detect magic at will>Transcribing only takes an hour per spell level meaning magic users can be (and have been) generated to simply act as a librarian and copy their 4 random spells to other people's books>Scrolls are mess and 3 rules conflict on the usage of them>Ritual casting: "Magic-Users may cast spells from their own spellbook beyond their slot capacity (but not beyond their level limit) if they spend one uninterrupted turn per spell level (e.g. a 3rd level spell takes three turns to cast)."RAW was the way all along
>>93148806>>Ritual casting: "Magic-Users may cast spells from their own spellbook beyond their slot capacity (but not beyond their level limit) if they spend one uninterrupted turn per spell level (e.g. a 3rd level spell takes three turns to cast)."Taking spellbooks into the dungeon is super FOE. The magic user needs a spellbook per spell level and they're not lightweight things. Would be foolish to lug those tomes around.
>>93148806It really is an object lesson in how the "DIY D&D" emperor has no clothes, isn't it? Making good rules is hard, you really want to be able to playtest for years with multiple groups in order to hammer them out. Anybody who says it's easy has almost certainly overestimated their own competence, or just doesn't care if their game is unfair or too easy or somehow busted.
>>93148841Some magic users have a separate (but still expensive. And hefty.) 'travel' spellbook for such things.
>>93141788You are incorrect. I'm neither. Feel free to persist in your delusions though.
Jesus Christ, if you guys don’t spend half the time arguing over what true OSR is you spend in a big circular suck n fuck over playing RAW. This general blows. Unfuck yourselves.
>>93148865I don't like it. I run OD&D though, and scrolls can be made from first level. IMO, scrolls serve the purpose of "travel spellbooks" - that is, having utility outside of what you strictly prepared for the delve.
The best parts of early DnD are broad mechanical concepts such as timekeeping, gameplay loop, procedural generation, sword and sorcery tone, etc. The details, like whether clerics exist or how much damage weapons do are less consequential and based on tastes. Therefore, there will always be some amount of people here more interested in the broader design principles than in dogmatically following arbitrary design decisions about minor details. This is in contrast to grog true believers who are more interested in unlocking some sort of spiritual experience if only they follow the exact rules as Lord Gary intended.
>>93149007>like whether clerics existThieffag detected
>>93149139I'm more partial to fighter/mage with secondary classes for everything else.
>>93149139NTA, but sneaky-fucker shank-a-guy is cooler than van-helsing pray-tithe-a-lot
ACKS has proven they could have just done CMI as level 1-14 content.Why wasn’t the CMI stuff done as level 15-20 (well Immortals might stretch beyond) and be consistent with AD&D and OD&D.The numbers would be smaller for the levels and you wouldn’t need another year or two of XP.
There’s a new book called Blackmoor Foundations coming out. Anyone ran a campaign in that setting before and got any tips for doing so?
>>93149307Probably because they didn't want to
How should I get started with OD&D?Should I be reading through the 3LBBs+ Chainmail or am I better of using a retroclone like Whitebox:FMAG?I have decent familiarity with B/X.
>>93149449No retroclone will convey the essence of the LBB
>>93149449Delving Deeper tries to be closer to the original than S&W, which changes a lot in the name of>streamlining But >>93149475 has a point, OD&D has quite a few things that are vague and need to be interpreted before you can run it. Retroclones generally pick one possible interpretation and go with it.
>>93147953He wasn't afraid of the Grogs, it was the right place to discuss alternate XP.He did not ask about the 3D6DTL specifically because he had disregarded it as not useful.
>>93149499>OD&D has quite a few things that are vague and need to be interpreted before you can run it.I say figure it out as you go, that's the tall fun of od&d
>>93149657>it was the right place to discuss alternate XP.You can discuss that right here, we do it all the time. It's just that most alternate XP rules suck ass, and people here won't lie to you on that
>>93149682>You can discuss that right here, we do it all the time. Thank you, I agree that for the purposes of the /OSRG/ nothing compares to XP for Gold. I wouldn't dream of running B/X or 1E ADnD without it.Further discussion on alternate XP clogs up the /OSRG/ with the usual, and every idea gets met with "don't bother, stick with gold".I wish the other poster didn't bring the discussion here at all.
>>93149724True, you could just make a thread to ask that question. But if you really need a general thread to ask that specific question for some reason, this is the one for it. Trying to make it a new general is silly.
>>93149778I didn't make a new general to ask it...I used the one that was up temporarily.
>>93148130Yeah why have talk about OSR stuff when you can just have retards yell stupid things at people trying to talk about OSR stuff.
>>93148806Christ almighty, that's bad.
>>93149007>Lord GarySorry to have to break it to (You), but just because (You) are too stupid to make good house rules doesn't mean people who call (You) out on that are in some kind of personality cult.Enjoy your amateur game designer threads.
>>93149400Sounds like just another money grab. Blackmoor was made up as Arneson went. The most faithful thing to Blackmoor you can do is to make up shit as you go in your own shitsetting.And I don't mean it in a derogatory way to Arneson, that's good D&D when it comes to setting. The problem is overdoing making up shit as you go when it comes to rules.
>>93149449>am I better of using a retroclone like Whitebox:FMAG?That's an OD&D-inspired shitbrew. There is no OD&D retroclone, and no OD&D retroclone is possible because the rules are highly ambiguous. If you want to play OD&D, the only way is to read OD&D. There is no shortcut.
>>93147898>>93147953Just checked the B/X thread. They are unironically being accused of purity spiralling by a 5efag. LMAO
>>93150095>>93147898>>93147953Sorry, it's the Holmes thread. Wha'eva.
>Help me brainstormIf the desert monsters are Barsoomian, those in the jungles are jurassic, those in the mountains are from the pleistocene, and those in the forests are Fairy types... what about the other biomes?Swamps?Hills?Plains?Rough/broken/badlands?
>>93149724>the /OSRG/Tourist. Go fuck off to where ever else you can get positive vibes only for your bad ideas.
>>93150837>Swamps Mix jungles with necromantic. >HillsDrums in the deep + dinosaurs >Plains Throat singing noises vs said encroaching dinoorc riders. >Rough/broken/badlands?Mutants, tigers and robots oh my.
>>93149400Some say it is a grift - but knowing how horrid Dave was at writing/organizing, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the authors/editors of this book put in a lot of effort to get the thing cohesive. That said - I'm kind of curious: I've heard good things about Tonisbourg - but it *is* written by the Arneson Fan Club. That's the only reservation I'd have: not to not buy it, but to take with a grain of salt any assertions it makes about the role-playing hobby or the origins of fantasy adventure gaming.
>>93150994I like the mutants/robots one, it's perfect. Unsure about the other ones, since they repeat the others I gave above in part. So swamps = necromantic is great, but I wouldn't repeat the jungles part in the swamp.I was considering Graeco-Roman/European Continental mythos in the hills (medusae, hippogriffs, pegasi, harpies, griffons, larva, manes, sphinxes...)I was also wondering whether Lovecraftian and Gygaxian oddities might best fit.
>>93149449Wight Box by Basic Expert does a pretty good job, but like >>93149960 said: 0e us somewhat vague and open. Less so, as you get into the supplements: but very much so at the LBB level - which is why Wight Box is my go to: it incorporates Chainmail, leans on ACS, but leaves elements vague so as to encourage you to build your own table. Also it's PWYW.If you get into LBB D&D - definitely read Chainmail: there is a ton of shit in Chainmail that you use in LBB D&D (morale, turn sequence, monster profiles...) that a lot of story gamers like to claim was omitted. Clerics Wear Ringmail did a pdf - Ringmail - which is free and close, if you want to avoid WotC on DriveThru - but it's also only like 5 bucks.
>>93151162>if you want to avoid WotC on DriveThruThere's ample opportunities to avoid DTRPG and WotC.
>>93151134Biomes overlap. Swamps and jungles bleed into eachother easily enough. Having some cross over between proximate areas and the factions therein create a more vibrant game world. ydy, classics inspired stuff is fun too. I tend to like mixing in an element of something else but it sounds more like you're trying to go for as many different variations on classic as possible. You could likely just go to the ad&d dmg wilderness encounter tables and extrapolate backwards what the themes would be. Extradimenional alien entities fit best nowhere, not that they aren't in the game but that they're from outside the realms of reality as we know it, so don't have a centralized location or biome. They're sprinkled in randomly or as magical effects, summoned horrors, digging too deep, etc.
Is there any OSR material that would make playing a campaign where the players are chivalrous knights in shining armour easier? I know the Knight class is a thing in OSE, but is there anything else out there? Maybe even just a setting book that would be suitable for inspiration, or really anything with any other material fitting such a theme? I know OSR games are typically dungeon crawls with motley crews of greedy adventurers looking for gold, but I like what I’ve read of OSE so far and I want to see if it can be used for this kind of application, albeit with supplemental material. If the answer is a no, I can look outside of the OSR for something, so it’s not a big deal.
>>93151534[lost my rant after sending] tldr version:This is some of the worst theory-crafting from someone who doesn't actually appear to play OSR games I've ever seen. And I've seen Old-School Stylish.
>>93151574old school stylish is based, but I’m glad to see it filtered yet another FOE
>>93151477Check out Birthright, the last great setting TSR made. >verification not required
>>93151477Just restrict the campaign to a Good-only party and make people and the gods actually treat them as such when they do good, none of the snarky modern bullshit retarded people mistake for charm. The rest is just setting details at it's core, like having suitable threats (with gold) and kingdoms where they can do knightly stuff.If you want some inspiration there's the Pendragon Campaign, the AD&D 1E Unearthed Arcana Cavalier class, the 2E HR2 Charlemagne's Paladins Campaign Sourcebook and the Chainmail jousting rules. (or just Full Tilt from White Dwarf) If you don't want the risk of them dying an ignoble death at all while undertaking dangerous tasks like dungeon crawling or fighting bandits then no, D&D isn't a good fit.
>>93151477It's easy to just homebrew some rules. Remove XP for Gold (I can already hear the whining from OSR purists) and replace it with XP for chivalrous actions. Saving people, being honorable, etc.You can still dungeon crawl. The pre-D&D games by Arneson had other reasons for the PCs to explore under Castle Blackmoor than money. You King sends you to destroy a great evil/save someone/destroy a dangerous artifact/bring back a powerful weapon to use against a monster/etc.
>>93151651>>93151679Good stuff. Thanks for the tips. Will give those a more thorough look in a bit. >>93151709These ideas are good too. Thanks.
>>93151709>Remove XP for Goldt. the same etard whose never actually played at the table yet continues to insist on terrible rule changes.D&D without XP for gold doesn't work. You just get arbitrary "you guys level now" shit as we saw in late 2E/3E out of it that a) destroys the XP difference balance and b) makes actual strategizing during play superflous because you're going to get your rewards anyway like a mechanical participation trophy.>and replace it with XP for chivalrous actions. Saving people, being honorable, etc.All things with little risk or balancing that would make them level at no cost and remove a huge chunk of the actual game of D&D. Chivalrous actions are their own reward and if you want them incentivized they should be a core requirement of a strong class, like they are with Paladins and to a lesser extent Cavaliers, and suitably rewarded by the attitude of the people and powers in the setting itself.
>>93151002I’m pretty curious about it too. More interested in the campaign setting than frpg origins anyway. Budget is pretty tight so I probably won’t be getting it though.
>>93151002>>93151815I'd 95% expect it to be a grift. Most Blackmoor releases beyond the TFT has no real relation to what we know of Dave's stuff.
>>93151477Just port the virtue system from Pendragon
>>93151534This book would not exist withoutthe many OSR and GLoG Refereeswho have gone before me, craftingprocedures to make our gamesunique, engaging, and enjoyable�While there are too many names tolist, the heaviest debts are to ArnoldKemp �The GLoGfather�, Phlox �Whobuilt a Discord for us�, ChrisMcDowall, Ben Milton, and theinestimable Skerples�Y to the ikes!
>>93151786I use the same tables for XP and gold as normal, but replace gold with other stuff. It's not hard and it works perfectly. For example, in a game we did, they got XP for quest by using how much gold they would have been paid to do that quest by a patron as reference. Easy as fuck.
>>93151902Imagine thanking Ben Million but not Gygaxs, Wesley, Kuntz, Kask or Carr,Even Perrin...Thanks for the Discord server nobodybro, couldn't have done it without you
>>93151983>in a game we didI take it it isn't an ongoing campaign by the way you phrased that.
>>93152084I read Arnold as Arneson... Oh wow.At least he didn't forget Skerples, one of the worst Dungeon designers ever.
>>93152088No. OSR is for one shots with my group. We play it deadly so we have a world and actions taken by the PCs affect it, but they play new different characters pretty often and with all the TPK there isn't really a group or organization they go back to when making new PCs.Our main campaign world is CoC 2nd edition. Old school, but not OSR.
>>93147316>but why do you think you need a special technique?He says he has one, I was curious about it since he worked so closely with EGG.It's knowledge aggregation.>>93147402I run a caller even for 4 person tables, super handy.
>>93151983>how much gold they would have been paid to do that quest by a patron as referenceJesus Christ that's retarded. Framing milestone XP as "equivalent gp value" doesn't make milestone XP not-milestone-XP. You wanna do milestone XP? Grow a pair and own it.
>>93152195>OSR is for one shots with my group.What you're doing is not OSR. Not even close.
>>93151709>removing one of the fundamental aspects of the game seems to upset all these 'purists' idgilol
>>93152195>removing gp for xp works fine if its just one shots ok good job there champ
Anyone have any good modern, OSR artists they like? I'm trying to commission some promo art
>>93152195>No. OSR is for one shots with my group.That'd explain why you're giving such terrible advice over houserules, you barely use them.
>>93152216I've never gotten the impression that some of the remaining old hats like Kask or Kuntz are good GMs to play games under and a lot of people who've played at their convention games seem to say as much, particularly the latter. Kask has his own channel were he gives advice and probably talked about it at some point though. As far as keeping a bunch of people at the table at the same time imo: run dungeon crawls, have dedicated callers and don't be afraid to run a tight-ship by treating all chatter as 100% ingame and any longer discussions over what to-do and similar as causing random monster rolls. Basically keep things tense, action-y and don't leave a lot of room for out of game stuff.
You're not gonna let raggi go bankrupt, right /osrg/?
>Players found pots filled with what they think may be greek fire in the wilderness surrounded by bones bith animals and human, hire laborers to extract it>wyverns that hunt in the area show up, have surprise, begin chowing down on laborers>in the ensuing melee three PCs die>players roll up as the surviving laborers>one player gets absolute godly INT WiS CHA, and for the first time in our three-year AD&D careers he rolls a legit psionic characterTime to finally read these mechanics I guess!
>>93152506Arms torn from agriculture.
>>93152533AWE-some
>>93152306I like almost all of Peter Mullen's art.Charles Lang, Val Semeiks, Mike Tenebrae and Ian Baggley's stuff is also pretty good albeit a bit more hit and miss.
>>93152465Thank you Anon, very helpful.Especially the bit about Kask having a YouTube channel, I guess I should have checked for that.>I've never gotten the impression that some of the remaining old hats like Kask or Kuntz are good GMs to play games underFair, I just look for information as close to DA and EGG as I can, then I revision it with more modern approaches after.Rather than starting at a 3D6DTL and working my way backwards as it were.
>>93152306I love the art Cameron Hawkey does for EMDT.
Is there a consensus here on AD&D 1E? I have the Gygax Memorial Edition of the Player’s Handbook that I bought back when I was in high school and it seemed cool, but I never got a chance to actually play it. Still glad I got, though, because they seem to be expensive now and PODs are garbage. I want to give it a read soon, but would like to hear what this general makes of that particular edition.
I replaced XP for gold with soul gems. Players find soul gems in dungeons (and some lairs). The quantity of gems is a function of treasure hoard gp, so it scales with XP for gold. They consume the gems to unlock magical powers like being able to take more hits in combat without dying, additional spells, and the charismatic powers necessary to attract followers at 9th level. Magic items can be disenchanted for soul power. That way, it's never a question of when xp for gold counts and gold is its own reward. It also makes sense that classes are about supernatural paths of ascension rather than increasing skills. Consume gems, get excited for next gems, repeat.
>>93153011>Is there a consensus here on AD&D 1E?You're asking this on an OSR thread?? The whole OSR movement was born on K&KA and DF around the idea emulating OD&D and AD&D (the real one, not the knock-off). It's literally what the OSR has about from day one.
>>93153102>But there's no specific 2e thread.>That is the THE ONLY EDITION which doesnt get its own thread on this board, because that FAGLORD mod thinks 2e IS OSR.That hasn't escaped any of us who have been around here for years, but it's good to say it out loud every now and then.
>>93153125>Personally I feel basic line is closer to OD&D, and consider AD&D is Gygax's effort to extrapolate on it, with extensive detail.That's partly incorrect. The basic line is based mostly on the 3LBB with a few additions (chiefly the Thief), whereas AD&D includes all of the supplements, and is in effect a full, coherent implementation of the full OD&D.
>>93153137>soul gemscringe
>>93153011The thing is, this is a thread with many posters and multiple opinions, like most 4chan generals, which should be obvious but we have posters that think B/X is banned from here because someone told them it sucked or something so they went and made a new thread and are pretending we don't like to talk about it.This is all to say that even amongst the older sort of OSR players that this general caters to, some people think AD&D is the best possible game for OSR play, and others think it's overcomplicated garbage that B/X (or OD&D, or whatever retroclone you like) improves upon, and you'll hear both opinions expressed here. Despite people's attempts to frame it otherwise, the OSR has always been a diverse grouping, within certain logical boundaries.To keep things foundational, I'd say that no matter what, you're going to get a more robust long-term game out of AD&D than any of its TSR rivals. Whether the juice is worth the squeeze is up to you. I'd also add that no matter what you ultimately wind up *running*, the AD&D DMG is essential *reading*.
>>93153102>>93145581>>93145581>>93145581Looks like a ADnD 2E thread to me.Possibly it turns out that nobody 'really' wants to talk about it when the option is available...
>>93153011I DMed 1e a lot because it is what people wanted to play back then. However, I think B/X is a cleaner system. But there are definitely ideas I would pull into B/X from AD&D like some classes, weapon specialization (limited to +1 to hit and damage and a weapon choice every 5 levels), dual-wielding (+1 damage plus its enchanted weapon bonus to your attacks).
>>93153529>dual-wielding (+1 damage plus its enchanted weapon bonus to your attacks)That's not an AD&D rule.
are there any osr games that have dedicated overworld mechanics? not really domain stuff but like travel, weather, wilderness, maybe hunting, etc. i know the purest osr is mostly dungeon crawling but i want to have both options available without just making stuff up, and actual rules for those things i mentioned would be great
>>93153553Youre looking for the "X" in B/X, anon.
>>93153544But the idea of dual wielding is. You just have to be careful with what system to use to handle it lest it become superior to sword and shield or worthless.
>>93153553I would say attempts at this are pretty common, but I'd also say that most of them are poorly thought through and often quite bad in play, being some mix of thin, vague, and tedious. They seem to be included out of a sense of obligation rather than because the author really uses them.I like the Simulacrum overland travel system. For weather I've tried a lot of things but nothing has worked and I may just abandon it as not worth the time since most efforts seem to be more about realism than gameplay and I don't give a shit if it's partially cloudy today. For hunting I just made a table of wild animals and I roll on that if people go hunting, so I don't use any special hunting mechanics beyond a success roll with an arbitrary target number based on the terrain and who's doing the hunting. Then throw in some hex crawl stuff and some random encounter tables and I'm good.You could go hard on this (I remember there's one crazily in-depth overworld system, but I can't recall the name) but I'm not interested in a ton of crunch here.
>>93153553>Overland travel hunting etc.Please feel free to try, I did and just like Simulacrum warned it wasn't fun.Rations and foraging only really matter for moving large amount of troops.It just turns sour when you invest playtime into it beyond that.>>93153623This is very accurate, except I personally find a rudimentary weather system helps a lot for setting the scene and promotes certain approaches to structures or ruins.
>>93151534>Average Damage Per Round>(assuming each attack hits)
>>93153553>i know the purest osr is mostly dungeon crawlingYou know wrong then, whoever you got that idea from is talking out of his ass and is not to be trusted. Wilderness exploration is a core OSR mechanic, and all OSR games (OD&D, AD&D, B/X) have wilderness procedures. Specifically B/X has practically all you are inquiring about. Read this:>>93134447
>>93152306Richard Leblanc Jr from New Big Dragon.
>>93153250Oh yeah? And what exactly makes you cringe, grogshitting faggot?
>>93151902Where would we be without the OSR procedures those esteemed gentleman, and absolutely no one else, carefully crafted?
>>93153954Well to be fair in B/X. the exploration rules were about a half page of rules which amounted to one or two checks.Chance to become lost (if applicable).Chance of wandering encounter. And then a couple of pages of encounter tables.
>>93153011>Is there a consensus here on AD&D 1E?Yeah, it has the most support for long-term campaign play and most of the fun classic modules are written for it out of the box. (the former is a lot of work to fix for other systems, the latter is usually not a big deal) For B/X you have to start pulling in things from other sources like the 1E DMG from level 3 on realistically. Some of the biggest B/X people from the early OSR like Blackrazor exclusively run AD&D 1E now.For 1E you never really have to look at another system to make it run well (well barring maybe the OSRIC interpretation of combat that Gygax & co ran) and more likely you'll end up ignoring chunks of it like Appendix systems like psionics or weapon vs armor class that slows down the game.Any more consensus than "it supports long-term campaign play better" I don't think you'll get though.
We ended last session at the beginning of a siege and half the group can't make the next session so I'm looking for a good side adventure to run with different characters, ofc I could just take B2 or something, but this will just be a one-off since they'll want to go back to the main campaign and probably won't return there any time soon. I'm looking for something wilder to have fun with in a one-off, I'm open to giving them pre-rolled higher level characters to get a taste of higher level play (their main characters are ~lvl3). Any suggestions?
>>93154334>I went on twitter and got triggered Many such cases.
>>93154334>thought we wanted politics out of the game.So why are you bringing it here exactly?
>>93154251If you translate from terminally online to normie it says "DnD used to be a good way to spend some time with the boys and we should do that again", which isn't so bad.Most people have to work to make their /tg/ *not* a sausagefest so it's not even that difficult.
>>93154361
>>93154183And terrain-based movement rates. And evasion. And pursuit. And hunting. And foraging. And encounter distance based on surprise. And weather effects. Which is pretty much a full system.
>>93154361Don't do one-offs to fit players' schedules, that is Hickmanfagging. Play D&D as it was intended to be played, as an open table. This means one of two options:1. The game goes on independently of who shows up. Let the players who are coming use their usual characters.2. If the party is stuck somewhere instead of having returned to base at the end of the last session, have the players who show up create new characters. On future sessions, they can decide which character to use each time, or you can even allow them to take more than one character on the adventure.If you use option #2, keep a calendar detailing where each character is at any given time.
>>93153011AD&D is a product of tremendous amounts of playtesting. OD&D was a prototype. Holmes and Moldvay just took it and clarified it, reworded it to make it easier to digest but none of them put it through the ringer like Gygax did. Sooner or later when running OD&D and B/X you'll run into issues with balance, the game starts ripping at the seams and the higher the level the more issues there will be, and you'll need to fix them. More often than not, those issues are accounted for in AD&D. Gygax ran for smart players who played to win and exploited the game as much as they could and he kept ironing out the rules as he went, clarifying, balancing all that work is already done for you. AD&D is just an extremely solid system you can rely on from the beginning to high levels of play.
>>93154361>I'm looking for something wilder to have fun with in a one-offMaybe funhouse dungeons like The Abduction of Good King Despot, The Ghost Tower of Inverness, Tegel Manor, Palace of the Vampire Queen, White Plume Mountain, Dungeonland, Castle Amber, The Hall of Many Panes, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks etc.If you want something more standard then maybe one of the Giants/Drow series modules, Mordekainen’s Fantastic Adventure, the lower levels of the The Thieves of the Fortress Badabaskor.The quintessential AD&D higher level module is S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth without question though.
>>93154334>found featured high in a collection of OSR 'guide to' material unfortunatelyDo you know what satire is?
>>93154510>now I went on 4chan and got triggeredInteresting development, but still, many such cases.
>>93154510I already don't care what "OSR" is synonymous with since plebbitors are abusing the term ad nauseam. I know what i'm playing and what i'm willing to discuss and that's enough.
>>93154510Get off twitter, retard. Nobody in the real world gives a fuck about it. And please never post bullshit from that cesspool here again.
>>93154510christ, the way you talk is insufferable, you word your sentences like a drama queen (EXPOSE HYPOCRISY! WE SHARE THE FIGHT! etc), and you’re also a hypocrite for bringing this shit here, as has already been saidfuck off, retard
>>93154510>compiled in an OSR resourceSo, from O-S-Rchive. The reason I have it is because it made me laugh, it's clearly not entirely serious, and still contains some nuggets of wisdom. The ZOz Cones are similar. Probably not anything to get bent out of shape about.
>>93151477>a campaign where the players are chivalrous knights in shining armourWhat >>93151679 said about a good-only party. Add in a bit of faction stuff -- players begin aligned to the local lord (normally I hate such things, but knights gotta knight, so you need a liege) but make him a sweet old guy who's penniless and inherited a tiny kingdom on the edge of the wilderness, with jerky kingdoms on the other side so he's likely to get squished if a war breaks out or a monstrous horde comes in from the wilderness. Bingo, now your chivalrous knights need to help the poor guy fill the coffers, gain allies, build fortifications and raise armies. All the meat of XP for GP, recovering treasures, dungeon crawling, wilderness exploration, and domain play, but with a heroic angle of saving the humble, kindly king and his happy subjects.
When ordering the DMG to plug stuff in to B/X, do I need the players handbook and the monster book as well?
>>93154607Fuck, those are some great ideas. I may just steal this 1:1. Thanks, man.
>>93154526Suspicious amount of defense here.Are you just starved for attention and argument, trolls who'll say whatever you think gets a rise, or toy soldiers?Sad in any regard.>>93154566I'm not on Xitter, retard. I'm in a folder filled with "this is the what it means and how to play" material. An awful place to allow agenda.>>93154574>Grug no want read! GRUG WANT BUZZWORDS>>93154598Sensible. Weeds grow where you don't tear them up though.Back to keying my Hexes.
>>93152506Where's the ref book ragu?
>>93153137What are your conversion rates for 1 gem to xp? How do you buy soul gems? Where does their money come from for buying other things?
>>93154334>I thought we wanted politics out of the game.We do. Don't bring twitter shit here.
>>93154361Run some people inside the siege trying to escape. You'll be able to tie into the existing game and give you some ideas for how that plays out.
>>93154665Why would you need a referee book when you can get gonzo mudcore Virginia for only 300 euros?
>>93154598>Zoz Cones Welp. >Artifact >Large conical hats of ulfire, jale and dolm. The hats when worn by 3 characters simultaneously with a combined Int. of 40+ or less than 12 unlock great powers. >Once per campaign the Zoz Cones may be donned. All who wear the Cones must save vs death or lose 1 random digit permanently. >The players are given D6 irl minutes to find 1 rule on the reference sheet and alter it in a comprehensible manner.>STRICT TIME RECORDS MUST BE KEPT>Incomplete alterations are to be interpreted by the DM as they see fit.>After invoking the Zoz Cones they invert and fold up into themselves disappearing from the campaign world forever.
>>93154608Helps. You probably don't need a hardcopy of the phb but reading its good. Wouldn't hurt if you decide to run it. Hard copy of the monster manual is great regardless of what you play.
>>93154837I love that my stupid typo inspired this.
>>93154632>An awful place to allow agendaIt's a place where you pirate books.
>>93154930Hey! I've bought some of the games I checked out in pdf form first. OSE, Torchbearer, DCC and some others.The rest I never got to run a game with before I deleted them anyways so it doesn't matter.
>>93154990I know a lot of creators who have followings and people who follow their blogs, support their companies and buy into their crowdfunding would be virtually unknown if it weren't for piracy. Some will even admit it (off the record).
If I wanted to add "Martial arts" or "Special physical Weeb attacks" to AD&D, how should I go about it in a way that offends the OSR the least?My players are a bunch of weebs, Japs, and chinks, and even I enjoy good shitty shonen anime. Our game is usually pretty on-point with a traditional procedure based dungeon crawl, but on occasion, we would also like to scream shit like, "DOUBLE CLAW STRIKE!" or have a thief that can yell "VENOM JAB!"I was thinking of doing a thing where upon character creation, you characters that roll a 16 or above in an attribute get to roll on a table of random attacks associated with that attribute, and then maybe upon defeating a foe that has a martial art, there's a chance to learn that foe's attack if you have a 16 or greater in the attribute associated with that attack. A character can only use a number of martial arts equal to their level per day.
>>93155111>"Martial arts" or "Special physical Weeb attacks" to AD&D, how should I go about it in a way that offends the OSR the leastYou're gonna want to look in the AD&D Player's Handbook. Page 30. Paragraph 6.
>>93155111You need anime themed art for your Referee screen,and printed pictures of anime characters for the NPCs and monsters if you can be bothered to find it all.The rest of your post I don't want to touch with a 10' pole
>>93155163HOLY SHIT WAIT, WHY HAVE I NEVER ACTUALLY READ THIS ENTRY?!?! This is perfect, thank you...>>93155181I think you're right. I think we'll just keep it to the basics and "Flavor it" on occasion.
>>93155111Got this from here ages ago.
>>93155240Try reading the whole book while you're at it, lol
>>93155250Thank you anon! I'll talk to my players and see if this is what we want to do.To be clear, we've been playing "RAW" with minor additions for about 8 years now, and recently we've been watching a lot of shit like Slayers, Record of Lodoss War, Inuyasha, and that sort of shit... So we're wanting literally the same experience as before, except on occasion we just want to spice it up with FOEshit... We understand that this isn't how it's intended.>>93155306(I've read through the entire book, but it's probably been like 7 years or something like that.)
>>93155318>occasion we just want to spice it up with FOEshit... We understand that this isn't how it's intended.The discussion in the thread is OSR, what you apply the OSR information to isn't important.
>>93155318Doing FOE things is generally easier to do if you don't break kayfabe about it. Everyone is a bit sometimes, its more about still being able to speak a lingua franca and discuss rules/content in that manner. A lot of the current 3 General Schism is because a few anons got bitchy people didn't unanimously accept their homebrew as Good and Pure.
>>93154901Finger Zen works in mysterious ways.
>>93154625Further thoughts: A knight should swear fealty to a Lord, but also to a Lady. Give the king a daughter, have her being courted by princes from bad guy nations A and B; she can't marry one or you're allied to their nation and at war if/when hostilities break out between A and B, also the princes are two different kinds of awful. At the table, maybe this means an encounter with visiting knights from one or other nation as the players leave or re-enter town. The knights are jerks who barely respect chivalric rules, they might be taking free samples from a merchant, or pushing an old lady down for not getting out of the way fast enough, or striking someone for not showing the proper deference. (Knights are not supposed to strike small folk, but they could have their men-at-arms do it, or maybe they're just that bad at chivalry) If so, be ready to react to what your players might do. They may just upbraid them, they might challenge them to a duel (pdf related is pretty good), beat the tar out of them, or even just murder them. If they beat the guys, it's likely NBD, scuffles between knights were not uncommon, and will probably get both sides a stern talking to from their lords, but not a lot will happen. If they wanna kill them, remind them of the chivalric code, and that it's probably a bad idea to do so, but if they go ahead, you might be breaking out the mass combat rules when the nation declares war and sends an army (large enough to probably win, not so large as to leave them defenseless against nation B), and have to deal with what happens if they take over the kingdom and lock the princess (plus the king, if alive) up in a tower, and put their prince on the throne. Maybe with a sham wedding to legitimize it. I'd have play move to the wilderness, with players as outlaw knights trying to set up their own kingdom. (You should also prep the tower and its environs around that time; players are likely to mount a daring rescue attempt.)
What's the deal with this HarmonyGinger chick? She seems to be a moderately attractive woman who's into the whole BroSR thing and interviewing that Jeffro dude with barely-concealed thirst for him. It's extremely bizarre. She seems like a genuine DnD autistic who runs hardcore old school Braunsteins and other shit that even most grognards I know don't know (typical nuSR hipsters I guess).
>>93155939>She seems like a genuine DnD autistic who runs hardcore old school BraunsteinsObviously not since that crowd have nothing to do with Wesley's Braunsteins beyond abusing the term for their own unrelated shit.
>>93156041They Braunstein their pants whenever Jeffro posts, though
>>93138830I love these, and use them.
>>93146494>>93147308Me too - but Cato ambushes made up for it.
>>93155939>moderately attractive>interviewing that Jeffro dude with barely-concealed thirst for him.You are making yourself sound like an incel, Anon. She's not only very pretty but also pretty smart. The thirst is all in your head, get it out of the gutter.>She seems like a genuine DnD autistic who runs hardcore old school BraunsteinsAs far as I understand she's run a "Braunstein" 5e campaign with players playing as "gods" or something during worldbuilding. So not exactly old school anything, let alone hardcore. But if she's running it with AD&D now then great.
>>93140052This isn't that far fetched if you assume medieval levels of trade.
>>93154665He said in that vid or the one before that he's finished writing it and has had three editors quit the book so far this year
20 more posts until bump limit.You eceleb circle jerkers can wait 20 posts to jerk the circle.
Fun fact! Women play OSR too! Both of them are even friends!
>>93138025Characters shouldn't even have names until 2nd level.
>>93157380lol, kinda, huh? that way you don't get too attached
>>93156678Bro she legit sounded thirsty for him. I have a gf but I also have female friends who I can tell when they're lusting for some faggot. Also no way anyone finds BroSR that interesting on its own.>>93157360Lol>>93157380No, characters should have names and random quirks from a table at level 1. You should get just attached enough that it hurts when they die. That makes them living to level 2 all the more rewarding. I lost a level 5 fighting man once. It sucked dick. Especially cause he was a good character I was hyped for him to reach name level and become a baron
I learn more from watching, are there any decent youtubers you guys recommend with like "how to's" for B/X and OSE? Not to say i wont be reading the books, i just find i absorb knowledge better when I watch it.
>>93158739Check out GFC's DND. The thumbnails are ironic, the content's actually good.https://www.youtube.com/@gfcsdnd205
Alignment variance for monsters, yay ot nay? Some monsters in the DMG have variance in their alignments. One that springs to mind are the cloud giants. Thought that this could be done to most monsters to add some variety to encounters.
>>93159347There are many situations where the current state of the conversation on TTRPGs isn't that far ahead of the OSR because Gygax and co knew what they were doing. This is not one of those times. This question is 40 years behind the ball.
What exactly is the point of alignment languages when every single mention of them in the dmg is immediately followed by text saying anyone using alignment languages should be reproached and considered uncouth. Like wtf
>>93159548You're not supposed to use them in front of outsiders, it's sekrit club members-only stuff
are any of you good with computers?
>>93159607Yeah, what about 'em?
>>93159548It's how the Head Cultist of Demogorgon orders all his Gnoll, Ogre and Bugbear servants around without having a following of dedicated translators.Alignment languages are purely utalitarion or "Sekrit club" like that other anon suggested.
>>93159548>What exactly is the point of alignment languagesWe have been wondering for 50 years, Anon. I am a diehard trve grog, I'd deepthroat Gygax if he were still alive or shortly dead, I despise 2efags, I loathe shitbrews, I hate amateur game designer hour, I advise people against using OSRIC because it's notfaithful enough, and I still wonder what the fuck Gygax was thinking when he came up with alignment languages.Just ignore them like most of us do.>Inb4 it's like Latin and Arabic.No it isn't, you fucking retard. Muslims can learn Latin and Christians can learn Arabic.
>>93134773A symbol that represents the predominant biome. Since each hex is six miles I can put a forest, mountain range or whatever I want in one but the symbol is the main geographical feature.
>>93159646Should only be a Cleric/Druid/Paladin/divine spellcaster shitbrew class feature.
>>93159646>>Inb4 it's like Latin and Arabic.>No it isn't, you fucking retard. Muslims can learn Latin and Christians can learn ArabicThat's because Muslims are lawful ;)(according to 3H3L)
>>93160147Islam is the archetype of Lawful Evil. Extremely strict rules, opposes humanity.
>>93160203In terms of Lawful, as in, OD&D Lawful, it is empyrean. It is GOOD AND JUST. (Protection from Evil is an example of Lawful= simply Good in OD&D)According to 3H3L, Muslims and Christians only fight because of the influence of Chaos.
>>93159607I can throw them pretty far
>>9315954898% of Gary's work was top notch. Alignment languages are a part of the 2%. Use it or don't use it, which ever you'd prefer.
>>93160104>class featureThey are called class special abilities in civilised language, Anon. Please help keep this general free of WotC speech.
>>93157114Its been over a decade ragu. Get it together.
Is there a Warhammer Fantasy thing/setting/conversion/ etc. for B/X?Also, this not really relevant but I've started playing Chivalry 2 and it gives you pretty nice ideas regarding weapons and combat.
>>93161266LAMENTATIONS!!
Was the alignment system really just a way to try and have soft RP rules in the old games? Based on what I've read, exp penalties for acting against your current alignment, and tracking the players actions, secretly plotting them on the axes, it seems a way to prevent players from bouncing between greedy thug and tryhard do-gooder at a whim without restricting them to specific traits. It makes sense that you want your PCs to be consistent in the world, even if they aren't fully fleshed out with pages of "backstory". Ex fisherman turned neutral fighting man gives enough of a profile.
>>93160318According to Mike Mornard, alignment languages could be learned in the pre-d&d testing. Everyone made neutral characters and took alignment languages as their bonus languages so they could talk their way through dungeons. According to him, the reason alignment languages could not be learned in the release version was because that bothered Gary - it made the game too easy.
>>93161318Ten dead rats
>>93155939>dead eyes>red curly hair>catShe's an attention whore with BPD. This isn't hard anon
/osrg/ is proof that having separate generals for different games is the way to go, otherwise everything devolves into a discussion of what is old school and what is not. Nobody in the B/X general is trying to attack/defend 2e or whatever, they're worried about their own game.
so is patron play just the new way to refer to the practice of having a co-gm lol?
>>93161266Since I funded the LOTFP Referee book on Indieagogo in OCT 2013 I have gotten married, had 2 children, moved houses and changed jobs thrice. I asked Greasy Jim at North Texas RPG Con about it. He said he was sorry and that he was working on it.
>>93162507>Nobody in the B/X general is trying to attack/defend 2e or whatever, they're worried about their own game.>>93159554>>93159951>>93159976Right.>>93162554>so is patron play just the new way to refer to the practice of having a co-gm lol?No. BrOSR-style Patrons are nothing like DMs. They control one specific side/individual, are subject to fog of war and have imperfect information, do not get to adjudicate stuff, and so on. They're just players in an adversarial setting, with play going on between sessions.You can see it as a kind of AD&D / Diplomacy crossover (assuming you're not a zoomer who's never heard of Diplomacy, which might be a stretch) although AFAIU they seem to maintain that that's how AD&D was originally (meant to be) played, which I think is true only in part.
>>93162657>Three examples that got shut down immediately
>>93161318Chiv 2 rocks. It reignited my passion for playing armor-clad fighting men.
>>93162702It would get shut down quite fast here too if our rules were enforced instead of sabotaged.
>>93158739Bandit's Keep dungeon designs. GFC's DND for hex crawls and organization.Dungeon Delver's live plays of AD&D 1E.
New dungeon competition by one of the entryists for No Artpunk: https://delightfuldungeons.blogspot.com/2024/06/the-first-delightful-dungeon-competition.html>Criteria for qualification>Text, maps etc. packaged into a single PDF of no more than 2 pages>If printed the details of the text, maps, etc. should be legible (min ~8px)>The dungeon should include at least one of the following themes: hidden treasure, traitors, sentinels>The heavy lifting is done by you, don't ask the DM to randomize treasure, come up with hooks, names etc.>The dungeon is compatible with an old school system like ACKS, AD&D, B/X, LotFP etc.>Criteria for judgement>Respect the time, intelligence, and taste of the DM reading your dungeon. Write clearly, draw clearly, don't explain the obvious. Use color and imagination befitting your vision.>Offer a good challenge and proportional reward to the players. Reward bravery and cleverness with shortcuts, treasure, information etc. Punish cowardice and stupidity with the loss of life, resources, opportunity etc. >Examples of what I'm looking for>2-pages should allow you to write a medium sized dungeon with a sparse key (like a quadrant of Michael Curtis' excellent Stonehell) or a small (2 rooms!) lair with an expanded key (like Heikki Hallamaa's excellent The Diamond of Hishep-Ratep).
>>93163154>2-pages should allow you to write a medium sized dungeon with a sparse keyCome on now.
>>93163154>2-pages should allow you to write a medium sized dungeon with a sparse key (like a quadrant of Michael Curtis' excellent Stonehell)One quadrant of Stonehell takes at least four pages, sometimes more. Never two.
>>93163423He's got a link to what he means with the Stonehell "quadrant" here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/outsnyd7jni/stonehell-level1.zip
>>93163560Lol. So he's removed content from the Stonehell quadrants to fit them into two pages instead of four.
>>93152506Raggi is the living proof that if there is a live action Warhammer Fantasy film you wouldn't need to do CGI of a Great Unclean one, although he looks like the cross between a shaven orangutan, a wash up garage porncore band frontsman and a nurgle daemon.
>>93159740>>93159774Hey guys, I'm >>93159715 and I was wrong, I actually thought (for the last 20 years) that "2e" was a catch-all term for AD&D. I apologize for that and for the other 2 or 3 times that I've given you shit for complaining about 2e in the past month or so. In my defense, I would have checked myself sooner if you guys didn't sound so delirious (calling me 2efag and accusing me of deleting your posts).
>>93141602>establishing a premise beforehand is railroadingNogame
>>93164800I don't think he's objecting to the idea of a premise, but to the specific premise that does away with exploration, XP for GP, and player agency in favor of the players being handed errands from local lord NPCs who will pay them in magic items.
>>93165151How is a lord handing them an objective any different than saying “we’re gonna play [Insert Adventure Here]? I definitely recognize that the provided situation can turn into a railroad, I get the gut reaction the other guy had, but I think we can be smarter than that here
>>93165151>>93165320Wait I’m sorry, I just reread the original post and I think you’re right here. I was arguing with a guy about a similar thing yesterday (whether or not establishing a premise/choosing an adventure/dungeon to do beforehand was railroading), in this case the wording of the original post implies a pretty big deviation from the “core” OSR ideas (unless they leaned heavily into urban exploration and recovering treasure from gangs and rival nobles and such).
>>93161318There's "Small but Vicious Dog" and "Ten Dead Rats". No idea about either (can anyone else comment on their quality or merits, if any?)
