Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content. Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency. If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. >Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 >Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321 >Previous thread:>>93134422>TQ:Working on anything cool lately?
Goddamn subject field.Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3. Make a dungeon setpiece>4. Make a wilderness setpiece>5. Make a city setpiece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon>9. Make a trap.>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>>93166136>Working on anything cool lately?Trying to make a starter dungeon. I'm shit at maps though, even with stuff like dungeonscrawl.
>>93166136Had a TPK in the third module of this series. I begged everyone to wait before assaulting an underwater sahaugin lair and maybe prep or something but everyone else was riding the victory high after great success in another dungeon. Needless to say the sahuagin tore us to shreds!
>>93166258I love the series for the way it builds up the sahuagin as a big deal.
>>93166136>Working on anything cool lately?I'm trying my hand at drawing up a room-a-day megadungeon set in TES. It's pretty fun just as a creative outlet. I'm also working on properly drafting a scenario I just made up on the spot a couple sessions ago.
>>93166136>TQ:Trying my hand at something for >>93163154 which is absolutely not a smart decision as I have multiple work projects due soon.
Interesting discrepancy in BX I noticed the other day:The a cobra's spitting venom ability causes blindness; in its statblock in Basic it's stated that blindness could be cured by the Remove Blindness spell in the Expert rules. But consult the Expert book and you'll find no such rule exists. Looks like blind characters are SOL, unless you use the optional recommendation of letting blindness be cured by eating a shrieker.
Saw some LotFP adventure anthologies at a Books-a-Million of all places, not even shrink wrapped! Raggi's made it to the big leagues, boys!
>>93166549If you're playing B/X you better be comfortable with adding shit in and fixing the broken system that it is.>>93166553Any day now Barnes and Noble will start selling his masterpieces right next to D&D and that soi-based WFRP clone.
>>93166136>no subject lineYou fucked up the op!
>>93166553Weird, the one near me does too. Unfortunately, it's like ten copies of No Rest for the Wicked plus the death anthology. Did snag a copy of Death Frost Doom, tho.
>>93166549surely just an editorial error
You looking for treasure :3
>>93167463NUH-UH!!
>>93167463This was meant to be the OSR thread, he uses the OSR copypasta and everything, he just forgot the title.
>>93167463ad&d (1st ed by definition) IS osr you dullardits the entire point of the movement, o/a d&d
Anyone got their hands on the new LotFP releases? Thoughts if so?
>>93167734Haven't looked at them yet other than the initial announcement vid. How's Black of Night?
>>93167730>gets into a tizzy over nusr shit being rejected>starts shitting out breakoff threads no one usesIs this a genuine low IQ retard having a spergfit?
>>93167734I haven't looked at LOTFP in nearly 12 years now. Way too much stuff that isn't worth running.
>>93167730Fuck off you schizo. Take your goddamn meds and troll elsewhere.
>>93167394Indeed it's just interesting seeing such a particular inconsistency. The only reference to the missing spell is in the cobra's stat block. It's neat seeing an artifact from an earlier draft of the game (one that assumed the game would have a cure blindness spell)
İ KNOW there are multiple türks that browse these goddamn threads somehow but i still cannot find a game amkkkk İ hate Ağrı bros please don't tell me İ have to be in İzmir or İstanbul to find a gameAlternatively how do I get Kurds to play with me
You guys have pretty much already had all of the discussions that you care to have about osr-relevant systems and have moved on to the phase of actively trying to distract yourselves, and/or simping for new vaguely-relevant-but-not-openly-rejected NUsr systems.
>>93167734They're not in the O-S-Rchive yet so no.
I read online that a room stocked with "Monster + Treasure" should have the lair amount of treasure.I thought you just rolled treasure twice + 10% when a monster is in the room.
>>93166553>LotFPew. No thanks.
>>93169375Yeah I don't know who told you that, but no, a dungeon room is not a lair
>>93169398Thank you, it seemed incredibly retarded but I wanted to make sure I wasn't short changing my players to such a degree.
>>93169398>dungeon room is not a lairit can be a lair though..
>>93170417Incorrect. Lairs are in the wilderness, not inside dungeons.
>>93169375>I read online that a room stocked with "Monster + Treasure" should have the lair amount of treasure.It's a common misconception stemming from authors and editors progressively either taking for granted that people would understand what the difference between a dungeon and a lair is, or outright misunderstanding how things were meant to work according to Gygax and making shit up as they went.>I thought you just rolled treasure twice + 10% when a monster is in the room.Correct in AD&D. In OD&D there is no such provision, but it's part of a whole set of differences: Monsters being worth more XP in OD&D, unguarded treasures always being trapped and/or hidden, dungeon treasure being richer on average than the unguarded AD&D one to begin with. All in all it averages out to something quite similar.
>>93170564a lair is not a dungeon, but a dungeon can absolutely have lairs. you've never added sublevels that have shit like basilisk or spider lairs that double as bonus entrances to the dungeon from the outside to quickly get to lower levels? lame
>>93170564>Lairs are in the wilderness, not inside dungeons.However a lair is structured like a dungeon, right?>>93170609>outright misunderstanding>Correct in AD&D.Thank you, I just default to the DMG for everything,I'll keep doing that it seems!
>>93170817>a dungeon can absolutely have lairsNope. What you are referring to is not a "lair" in the technical D&D sense.>>93170835>However a lair is structured like a dungeon, right?Not really. By DMG standards lairs are small and finite, dungeons are large and essentially infinite (what newfags today call "mega"dungeons are actually just dungeons in AD&D). Think e.g. the dungeon under Blackmoor and Gygax' own dungeon.The idea of a "dungeon" of finite size and about 32 pages is a product of a later period* in D&D, when Gygax came to terms with the idea** that the publlic wanted precooked "dungeons".>I just default to the DMG for everything,I'll keep doing that it seems!That's an excellent practice, but do be warned that the three core AD&D manuals were written as if they were expansions for OD&D (although they were never marketed or branded as such), so occasionally you will find contradictions, omissions or assumptions that you are familiar with OD&D. Off the top of my head, some aspects of aerial combat are unclear and incomplete in the DMG but become clear if you read the OD&D aerial combat rules, and the number of alignments changed from five to nine going from the MM to the PHB.______________(*) So I'm saying they are a post-DMG idea even though dungeons 30ish page dungeons were already being published before the DMG in 1978. It's like Gygax was of two minds as we was writing the DMG: The DMG instructed DMs as he would have liked them to play in an ideal world, but at the same time he was publishing products that contradicted parts of his own philosophy.(**) The realisation he could profit off of it certainly helped the coming to terms bit.
>>93171051>By DMG standards lairs are small and finiteWould it be a good practice to limit lairs to 2d6 rooms?>Gygax was of two minds as we was writing the DMGDidn't Mike Carr cobble together the DMG from a pile of notes?just like Tim Kask did with the Blackmoor supplement for Arenson?If so, that would explain why there was a schism in the thinking, ""outdated notes"".
>>93171083>Would it be a good practice to limit lairs to 2d6 rooms?I don't think it makes much sense, you should base it on the number appearing entry in the monster manual: One thousand goblins need more rooms than one chimera.>Didn't Mike Carr cobble together the DMG from a pile of notes? >just like Tim Kask did with the Blackmoor supplement for Arenson?>If so, that would explain why there was a schism in the thinking, ""outdated notes"".Interesting theory, it's possible that it played a role to an extent, but Gygax' notes were much more detailed and complete than anything Arneson ever put together: Gygax' approach to D&D is best understood as actuarial.
>>93167734WHERE IS THE REF BOOK RAGGI ITS BEEN OVER A DECADE
>>93163154>(like Heikki Hallamaa's excellent The Diamond of Hishep-Ratep).>excellent Wait what? Do they just mean as an example of an expanding key? >1 page dungeon vs>2 page lairdoes not seem like it will have good results.
>>93171126>you should base it on the number appearingUnderstood, thank you!
>>93171126>Gygax' approach to D&D is best understood as actuarial.Also that makes a ton of sense given the firefighters fund job.
Has anyone had luck implementing a morale system? Something that encourages players to do stuff like buy bug repellent and nice backpacks and seasoning for their food or else eventually take penalties to attacks due to rain and poison ivy and stuff while traveling?
>>93171634For PCs themselves? No, I think it's the players' jobs to decide when to retreat or push on. I'd just use the morale system present to check for retainers etc. in miserable conditions. That's why it's there!
>>93171634I think I got this from Epic and warhammer in general when I was a kid. >Average morale is 7>2d6 roll under >Check at 50% casualties, leader death, loss of objective, etc. >Modify by increments of 1 for various things like good leadership, magical flag, forced march, bad foodChecking at 50% casualties isn't very realistic but keeps the fights going enough to be exciting while still being a factor.
>>93171634You could have a fatigue system. Points of negative fatigue/morale give a malus to rolls (or to certain rolls)
>>93171634There's a few pages on it.
>>93171634For enemies and henchmen, sure. I'd never inflict that on PCs. As the other anon said, Fatigue better covers this.
>>93171634Yeah that's common practice.Your henchmen and crew may leave if there is no hot food, no tents, no wine.It's called a loyalty roll.It starts at the charisma of the character that hired them, reference your system of choice.
>>93171634One time I ran a Ryuutama campaign built around that idea and it just wasn't as fun as it sounded. I think the balance already in the games is just right.OD&D:>Player/Characters must pay Gold Pieces equal to 1% of their experience points for support and upkeep, until such time as they build a stronghold. AD&D:>Each player character will automatically expend not less than 100 gold pieces per level of experience per month. This is simply support, upkeep, equipment, and entertainment expense. And if someone wants to not pay up, then hit them with a -1 or -2 to rolls until they do.
>>93173107In my campaign, if they don't pay for their upkeep they accept they are not fit for the adventurer's job, give up, and retire.
>>93173590This is the way.Earn, die or become a fisherman.
>>93172330Well eating nice tasting food isn't gonna help your fatigue. But it will help your morale. Low morale won't make you run away but I'd say it'd give you a -1 on attacks and saves. This would only be if you went multiple days with no tent, rain, mosquitoes, etc. It'd inflict fatigue as well. Idk they are two separate things. Perhaps fatigue would be better but every time I say that I find things that would reduce morale but not fatigue.
>>93174166>eating good quality food doesn't help with fatigue >amerifat detected
>>93174166The fatigue function is built into the hourly rest requirement for dungeon crawls.
>>93167472There's giant babes in OSR? I need to play OSR...
>>93167734>>93167842Lair of the Brain Eaters was in No-Artpunk 2 already, so I know it's a great delve. I doubt anyone's touched a weird crusher yet, or had time to read anything bigger.
>>93174166If you're compelled to separate physical endurance from mental endurance then how do you cope with hitpoints?
>>93175585He'll fall for the Flesh & Grit meme if you lead him astray.
>>93171945This is an example of why I'm not a fan of 1e. This stuff is very specialized and would be fine in a zine or supplement but I really don't think it needs this level of detail in a core book because DM common sense can handle it.
>>93175635I think that's the eternal for/against 1e argument in a nutshell. A more complex and robust game vs a more cumbersome and tiresome game. I'm honestly not sure where I fall quite yet. I read a lot of times about people progressing through the stages of starting slim, adding in the crunch, only to eventually go back to slim. If I'm anywhere it's in stage 2; I just don't know if stage 3 is inevitable.
>>93175724That's why most of us run B/X and just use shit from 1e as house rules. I always use the space required/weapon length table, that really adds a layer of strategic depth to weapon choice, that with -4 to hit called shots and a 1 minute combat round are all I usually add to my B/X games.
>>93175724Wait until you start reading the '75 Tékumel rules.
>>93175635>>93175724>>93175911To me, it's never looked like an argument that needs to be settled either way. The perfect game is almost always a hybrid of the OSR editions, with the exact proportions from B/X, AD&D, and OD&D depending on the group.In the specific case of the Morale modifiers from AD&D, remember that that's a book that came out in 1979, when RPGs were still in their infancy, and most people without a wargaming background had no idea what morale was in the first place. You can apply it by the book, but even if you don't, it's still a very nice reference list of factors to take into account.Also, and this is a very important factor for campaigns featuring adversarial play:>DM common sense can handle itVery detailed lists like that one allow players who have armies to solve combat without a DM in many situations (for example, whenever fog of war is not needed). If you're running a campaign with a 1:20 DM:players ratio, that's invaluable.AD&D supports solo play, wargame-like play, adversarial play, and DM-less play in a way that B/X very much doesn't.
>>93176006I think the thing that a lot of people forget is that some procedures are actually a hell of a lot of *fun*, especially when those procedures create unique situations.Part of why I love running OSR games is that I have no idea how the night is going to turn out but I'm supported by reference material so the rug isn't pulled from under my feet.
Does anyone have the picture of the insane side-profile dungeon that includes things like going into the sky and fighting abstract concepts or w/e?
>>93176102I used to make up side-profile bases in Mario paint when I was a kid.
>>93175635Legitimately the way 2e collapsed it into 2d10 by dividing all these by 5 made a lot of sense. It allows a little more wiggle room than 2d6 but isn't as immediately offputting as percentile. Of course then they immediately fucked it up by trying to tie it to reaction rolls for some goddamn reason.
>>93166155NEW MONSTER: PURITY SPIRALHD: 15AC: -2ATTACKS: 2–12 x 2% LIAR: 90%FREQUENCY: thought to existHABITAT: 4chan threads, slippery slopesI am speculating on the stats of this creature, but given how one anon keeps going on and on about it they must be substantial.
>>93171300>expanding keyWhat is this?
I'm new to OSR, I have B/X printed, and just ordered a ADND 1E DMG.What else is a must have for B/X games?
>>93166155>2. Make a monsterRukarazyllArmor Class 7Hit Dice 12 (54 hp)Attacks 3 × tendril (1d4), 1 × bite (1d6), 1 × acid spit (2d4)THAC0 10 [+9]Movement 90’ (30’)Saving Throws D5 W6 P7 B5 S9Morale 10Alignment ChaoticXP 1900Number Appearing 1Treasure Type HMundane Damage Immunity: Can only be harmed by magical attacks.Spit Ooze: Can spit a gray ooze anywhere within 30 feet once per day by sacrificing 1d8 hpFungus: Whenever the rukarazyll is hit by a melee attack, there is a 20% chance the attacker is infected by fungus. The attacker must make a save versus poison or lose 1d6 hit points per day until either a cure disease is cast on them or the victim takes 5 or more points of fire or cold damage. A creature reduced to 0 hp becomes an immobile pile of fungus that lingers for 3d6 days before expiringAlter Self: Can take the shape of any humanoid creature at willRukarazylls are earth elemental shapeshifters infused with profane energy. They enjoy taking the form of charismatic men and women to infiltrate religious cults and slowly turn them toward the worship of demonic entities. Its gelatinous body constantly burbles and undulates, long hooked tendrils extending from its form to manipulate its surroundings.
>>93176769kek, you should mention that you can find rumors in the village about it, where it's "oft-touted*"* by one crazy old town drunk
>>93177026That's plenty. The real thing is to start running games. You'll fuck up since you don't have experience, but the only way to learn this is by doing. Prep can help, but it's usually better to prep the normal amount up front in the normal way (read the books, run a mock combat or two for yourself to get a feel for how they would play out) and then only return to books and blogs and such once you've got a game underway and are looking for advice on specific topics.Otherwise you could easily trap yourself in an analysis spiral early on, and you won't have the gameplay experience to properly weigh all the different and oftentimes conflicting advice in any case.
>>93177049Hate the game but 3.x had some cool monsters.
>>93169375Try asking in 93145581
>>93177666I am not going to wait 93143557 years to get the answer to a simple question, Satan.
I don't know if this is the thread to ask or not, but I'm in search of an open license generic RPG that I can base a video game on. The most I want to do is cite the name and names of the developers, I don't want to and cannot afford to pay a licensing fee.Preferably the game is setting agnostic, and even genre agnostic.Any ideas, grogs and youths of the old style?
>>93177689lol - apparently I have forgotten the skill of properly linking a different thread - AD&D general. I'll take a lap.
>>93177849The "original fantasy adventure game", as so many retroclones do.
>>93177026Monster Manual is a good bet. Otherwise >>93177071 has the right of it. There's buckets of cool stuff but trying it as is for at least a bit is worth doing.
>>93177797iirc I think early versions of GURPS had an open license, it's not OSR but it's the most agnostic game system out there and the first two editions are from the mid 1980's which is the general vibe OSR tends to recreate. I know the original Fallout game was GURPS based.
Can't believe halflings were such a litigious issue in early D&D history. >You can't just use short people in your games! J.R.R invented the idea of short people!
>>93176102Retarded newfag here. How the hell do you even run a side-profile dungeon when so much of the game (going off my B/X experience anyhow) relies on movement and time based on grid spaces?
>>93177988Make the side profile dungeon on grid paper. 1 Square = 10 feet.
>>93177889It was the use of the word hobbit that brought down the wrath of the Tolkien estate. Also Balrog and Ent I believe. So that’s how we got halflings, balor, and treants.
>>93178012Thanks for that. Seems like twice the effort for the same thing, but I get the appeal.
>>93177797Is it safe to assume you are looking for something d20 based or anything as long as it translates to a crpg relatively easily.>>93177889Wasn't it just the name that was contended?
Thoughts on Knave 2nd Edition for getting into this hobby? I can't find a pdf of the book to read so wanna get some opinions before buying it.
>>93178056>Is it safe to assume you are looking for something d20 based or anything as long as it translates to a crpg relatively easily.Yeah, I'm open to anything tho. I rather like WHFRPG's percentile system, with the 0 to 100 using d10s, tho. Just wanna see what's out there.What Im really looking for is what >>93177860 is talking about. I may ask /gurps/ if they know what they talkin about.
>>93178089As it's brand new you're not going to get a lot of impressions, especially here since that sort of thing is considered watered-down NuSR stuff that falls into the classic later-gen "OSR" trap of thinking that rules-light is so important that it's better to trim away everything that makes a game old-school than it is to have a large page count.Knave in its original form was OSR literally for kids, and that's fine if you're a kid, but lousy for rich, longer-term play. It also relied on you stealing content from a ton of other books to actually create any semblance of old-school gaming, making the low page count deceptive. I can't imagine 2nd ed is much different.
>>93178089Knave 2e is for one shots and very short campaigns. Gets you used to rolling to hit but otherwise has almost nothing to do with OSR. Ben will tell you otherwise but that idiot thinks Into the Odd is OSR. ItO and Knave are both NuSR games and considered off topic. The other posters are probably going to loose their shit for just mentioning Knave (we get a lot of trolls here so don't take it too personally).The way I would recommend getting into osr is to run moldvay-cook BX with a module called Keep on the Boarderlands.
>>93178142I'm not 100% sure if their license is free I just know it's open but I'm sure /gurps/ can help
>>93178142Anything in creative commons is where I would start. There should be a lot of those but in terms of games worth porting I'm nots sure. It's pretty common in the NuSR scene so maybe give that a look. Cave Girl does OSR and I think put his stuff out in an uncopyrighted form (Stygian Library; wolf packs and winter snow; Esoteric Enterprises)
>>93177988You don't run off the side profile, you have maps for the floors. The profile just gives you a useful overview
>>93175034
New ACKS DM, the second edition pdf is massive. What is essential? İ want to run the game asap. I'm guessing character generation, proficiencies, and the chapter about adventuring in dungeons?
>>93178965Welcome to /osrg/ Turkfag. ACKS is a bit of an odd beast here, since it has many elements that make it not very OSR (for example the excessive character customisation components), while at the same time it provides a lot of mechanics that can be very useful in OSR games, mostly for economics and running domains.The general accept /osrg/ wisdom is to run a B/X/AD&D hybrid (the real AD&D, not the Hickmanfagging knock-off) and plug in elements from ACKS as needed, again usually the rules for economics, markets, domains, and related topics.
>>93178965>>93179029If this is the way you want to go, the attached PDF might help you establish a B/X campaign and guide you on the next steps to include AD&D and ACKS elements as needed.If instead you want to go with pure ACKS, you could open a dedicated thread. There's usually enough interest in the system to support a short-lived thread with focused questions.
>>93178965>What is essential? İ want to run the game asap. I'm guessing character generation, proficiencies, and the chapter about adventuring in dungeons?Read the basic rules and those for adventuring in the dungeons, use the starter Sakkara module with pregenerated character and learn only the proficiencies that are gonna be used by PCs/NPCs in the module, ignore all the rest, like the Domain stuff, for now.
>>93177988The side profile is sort of like an overworld map with the individual floors being the equivalent of local/dungeon maps.
>>93177797open D6. It was commercial and turned open. Pretty established, supporting fantasy and scifi.
>>93166136>Working on anything cool lately?Yes, writing a scenario pack (i.e. a series of connected battles) for my mass combat supplement for B/X.Also, playtesting some faction rules for my game group, which is to be played alongside the PC level game, asynchronously, thru (e)mail.Also, getting an idea from the OP image. Can we have something like MODULE MONDAY? We can talk about our experiences, tweaks, etc. for each module. We can start with the basic line. >B1 9023 In Search of the Unknown >B2 9034 The Keep on the Borderlands >B3 9044 Palace of the Silver Princess >B4 9049 The Lost City >B5 9078 Horror on the Hill >B6 9086 The Veiled Society>B7 9115 Rahasia >B8 9106 Journey to the Rock >B9 9143 Castle Caldwell and Beyond >B1–9 9190 In Search of Adventure >B10 9149 Night's Dark Terror >B11 9260 King's Festival >B12 9261 Queen's Harvest >BSOLO 9097 Ghost of Lion Castle>>93178089> getting into this hobby? Bad choice. Get B/X from the picrel.
>>93178965In the RRRead the intro and chapter 1. Make sure you understand how attack throws and cleaves work and that initiatives are rerolled every round.Skim read the chapters on class (2), proficiencies (3), spells(5)Read chapter 4 - equipment and 6 - adventures.In the JJUse chapter 4 - treasure and 8 - dungeons if you want to make a dungeon for the players. If you have a module or already have a dungeon then skip this bit till you need it.And read chapter 1 at some point before the party finishes their first area.Everything after that is for mid to high levels so you won't need it till a character reaches level 4 at least.I suggest reading the whole RR and JJ but in terms of necessity the above is all you need until the campaign really gets going.As was said above ACKS isn't OSR but there is a lot of overlap. Godspeed and have fun gaming.>>93178993The Wizards only investigated revoking their old licence and it is speculation as to whether or not they would have been able to. That being said Cavegirl is that kind of loopy and I am sad to hear that his stuff isn't properly in the creative commons as it's some good work that I'd love to see someone riff on.Cheers for your viewpoint on the matter Anon
>>93177852This is the AD&D general.
Rules right, not rules lite!#brosr
>>93179513>As was said above ACKS isn't OSR but there is a lot of overlap. Godspeed and have fun gaming.Would there be an audience for a faithful B/X retro clone that had the ACKS style domain rules but without the 3e style skill and feat system?
>>93179910If done well, yes.If done like shit, no.You'll probably do it like shit, so don't bother.
This thread doesn’t deserve the privilege to define OSR
>>93179910Just take the domain system wholesale and use it with B/X. Last i read it, it seemed compatible enough to not need a lot of finessing
>>93180068Best part is when you try to explain underlying OSR concepts only for some troglodyte to start shitting himself violently because it's not in the book as written.It's like trying to explain how a combustion engine works to someone who is really into cars only for them to start stroking their wrench and muttering about how they don't need no explainin' about why the radiator is there, all that matters is it's there as the manual says it should be and by god that's good enough for them, all this talk of combustin' engines is dangerous and possibly faggy.
>>93171126According to Kask, the DMG was created by Gary locking the two of them in his office, cutting up 0e, TSR/Dragon writings, and pinning them on a giant bulletin board before a once-through to make them more cohesive and distinct.
>>93177988>>93178038Also, TSR/Guidon had sold a game, "Battle of the Five Armies," in years prior without authorization. And that's kind of understandable as a basis to not give them the benefit of the doubt. Also - keep in mind - Tolkien was still alive when 0e/1e came out. He didn't die until 1979.
>>93179934That's a little uncalled for anon.>>93179910The domain rules are solid and domain play is an explicit goal in BX/ADND so go nuts with it.
>>93180273What are the underlying concepts and make them car related. Its always funny when not mechanics try to talk about them.
>>93180273>I hallucinated something into the game why won't anyone take me seriously?>no trust me a blog post told me osr is when rules lite.>mfw rules lite just means improve theatre If I'm honest I don't even hate NuSR i just hate that it pretends to be osr>>93180297I was unfamiliar with this. No doubt it was a shitshow.
have a few sessions now where my players (monk and cleric) aren't bothering with hirelings.should I kill them?
>>93180385>Hur dur rules liteDid I say rules lite? Take your meds. I'm saying once you know why something is the way it is then you can make changes and that makes some people here pissy.Good example would be a few weeks ago, someone was talking about doing a game set entirely in a mega-dungeon and asking how to figure out gold-for-XP in a setting where gold has no legitimate use.Immediately they get shittered down by a bunch of baboons telling them it can't be done and they're heathens for even suggesting it and should just stick to doing OSR the way OSR has always been done because that's what makes OSR OSR, like circular reasoning is some kind of virtue.At which point someone pointed out that gold is effectively a stand in for 'resource gained through exploration (Not, I might add, combat) that has to be taken back to safety where it can be converted for further useful resources, food, goods, ect'.So if you're doing a game based entirely in a dungeon, or the stone age or the post-apoc or some shit? Just trade out gold for food, water and other resources (all, I might note, clearly valued so that it's an actual system where players can make intelligent and informed choices, same as they do when deciding if they're going to carry 10lb of gold back to civilization or risk fighting the man-ape for the far easier to carry gems, not some soft DM driven 'Oh, they're worth what you as DM feel like at the time, uwu' bullshit, which is what differentiates it from rules lite.) and trade towns for 'secure places held by allied factions'.Which is fundamentally what a town is, somewhere where if you've got the cash back to it you're basically in the clear.
>>93180644Boom, done, you can now run a game set entirely in a dungeon, what was asked for has been granted, just by understanding that fundamentally gold isn't the end in and of itself, but rather something that can be found through exploration, clever play, engaging with the world, paying attention to the details, ect, ect.You could, once you understand this, replace gold with trade goods, pottery shards, slaves, sacred relics or dragon scales, because you understand the fundamental purpose rather than going 'Ungabunga gold pretty, book say gold = XP therefore only gold can = XP'.The other side of Chesterton's Fence is 'And if you understand its purpose, then, and only then, can you think about changing it'.But no, any attempt to actually discuss the mechanics beyond 'Boy I enjoy the mechanics, please don't call me a FOE ;_;' gets some retard latched onto your back for the rest of the thread about how clearly you just want rules lite amateur drama hour.I believe in a strong structure and the foundations of OSR. But cargo cultism isn't any less box-cutter circumcision retarded than the NuSR types going 'Oh, OSR is anything, just like art is anything, a urinal is OSR if I want it to be :3c'And to prove my point and that I'm seething over something legitimate I'm now going to prove my point by actually contributing ideas to the thread instead of just bitching.
>>93180655>>93180644What would be a good alternative to measure in such a setting though? Also, i don't get why you can't have a megadungeon with safe locations inside it like trading posts and keep the gold for exp.The only reason this is not included in the original megadungeons is because there was a town right above/outside.What is so alien and forbidden with having a truly immense megadugneon with maybe a town and a few trading posts at least inside the dungeon structure instead of outside it?It doesnt have to be as expansive as the Underdark in the forgotten realms. Just something larger than a typical megadungeon that can accommodate such a setting.I was really baffled when reading the discussion at that thread. I am honestly not sure if people here are completely creatively bankrupt and beyond redemption or just reactionary retards that are here to hate on fun and decry the need to only ever wish to do the vanilla B/X experience like you are 12 and it's 1982 and your dad is dming and everything else is foe
Dungeons where the players eventually find out they're actually in some post-humanity future earth? Also is there a tag for that for easier searching?
>>93180655>An OSR campaign where the players are the surviving apprentices (and guards, ect) of a necromancer (lich or not) who survived the purging of their previous master, rather than gold most XP comes in the form of forgotten tomes, spells carved onto the walls deep in ancient ruins and grave goods. Rather than recruited henchmen tend to be undead (requiring you to gather their grave goods, a direct equivalent to hiring henchmen for gold) or monsters and rather than getting things back to town the trick is found in securing an area long enough to actually study what you've found, or finding some way to get it somewhere else that's safe.>The aforementioned dungeon only campaign, gold replaced with things necessary to survive (again, all quantified, and yes they might get more for it in certain places, but transporting to those places is going to be a risk-reward challenge in and of itself so it balances out in the wash. Again, player choice.), up to and including alliances with various factions, quantify how much certain structures or slaves are worth and then treat gaining new buddies as if they'd claimed the area wholesale and dug out all the worked stone to sell back in town in a normal campaign.
>>93180804Basically a dungeon based cityscape campaign
>>93180804>Priesthood campaign, players are a cult, gold for XP becomes converts for XP, henchmen become true believers or converts from other temples who have class levels because they got up to other shit before getting that ol' time religion, rather than trying to build a castle, you're either angling to build a temple out in the wilderness or better yet converting some powerful ruler of a city or the like to create a low-key theocracy which you run from the shadows. Thieves are temple assassins, fighters are bodyguards, player freedom remains because while they have a unifying goal how they go about it or what the tenants of their religion are/develop into are up to them.Keep in mind before you 'But player choice-' me like a fuckhead.None of these are more restrictive than 'You fuckers turned up wearing nothing but burlap and carrying nothing but your dick in hand because you want money' that is a god damn background for a character in and of itself.A sandbox is still a sandbox, even if the sand in the box isn't ground from the bedrock of Blackmoor Castle.
>>93180767I just think it’s ridiculous you now can’t discuss ACKS here and the purity spiraling isn’t one-sided
>>93180863I think there are some other osr threads rn like a holmes general. This is where we have devolved to.Honestly at this point this is an early tsr only general and the threads name is just propaganda
>>93178089A lot of these smaller indie games require previous knowledge and experience in roleplaying to be effective.If you're new to ttrpgs in general, they're a bad idea. If you're new to OSR only... well Knave is okay but not great. Not the best to begin with. Not the best to use. But at least it tries better at being OSR than other games. Like fucking Mork Borg.The best for beginners is B/X. Very well explained, good examples, clear and easy rules ad procedures. OSE isn't the best for a beginner as it's B/X, but with most of the examples and explanations removed. But it's really good for when you have some experience but still need clear reference material.
>>93180767>What would be a good alternative to measure in such a setting though?That's the thing, you have to actually engage your brain and decide what counts as an XP resource.Hell, watch this:>All orc campaign, XP-for-slaves & loot. Gold doesn't matter, but loot does, loot only being 'gold that has been taken by violence from non-orcs', sure you might fight each other for resources to buy maggoty bread, but those halfling cunts over the hill are the real enemy, orcish slaves still count for XP though since that requires enslaving entire other tribes at the whip-point.But, again, this requires actually engaging your brain instead of just going 'But the book though' and some monumental retards have decided that what's in the book matters more than why that thing is in the book and will shout over anyone who tries to get clever with it.And don't get me wrong, you could easily keep gold for XP.But the point is that you could choose not to keep gold for XP and in doing so you're setting player expectations in a different direction.Think about it like this, you switch out gold for XP for survival for XP/resources for XP.What're the logical consequences?Well, XP is now inevitably gained over time since you have to find food or die, meaning older creatures are dangerous, players now have this information, anyone who looks experienced probably is, be wary of old men in young mens work, ect. Food is perishable, you can't carry it forever, so trade it, or gift it, use it to make friends and influence people, think beyond yourselves, or hell, think of ways to preserve it even.
>>93180863There's the other OSR thread (well it's called BX Thead) where you can discuss ACKS freely. Yes the names are confusing, I think there should be two:>TSR General >OSR General
>>93180957Riches and luxuries are likely to be worth more, so you've just gained an incentive to aim above baseline living that isn't the DM going 'If you don't cover the cost of living this month you retire and become a gongfarmer, fuck you' - which is what some people have suggested in these threads, because player choice am I right lads?But such luxuries could also be gifts to potential friends and people you want to schmooze.What about if they find a consistent source of food/water/shelter? A hidden spring, safe house vault or something? Well, that now becomes a source of risk, can they hold it? What if other people find it? Do they sell its location?Faction play comes more to the fore since a faction is no longer just maybe-buddies, but an actual source of power and safety in a dangerous world. Hell, even putting your money behind certain factions and helping them fuck over other factions could be rewarding. Sure Yugmegrath the Vile isn't a savoury fellow, but if he takes over the Bastion Unassailable then you've suddenly got somewhere you can leave your shit and he'll likely be a good buddy going forward. Or you could ally with the current owners of the Bastion, fuck Yug over and betray him to his death so they can build a Starbucks atop the rubble.These are all choices they now have to make, balancing the risk and reward, it's a different set of problems to 'How do we get the booty home'.Which puts a fresh spin on things and can make for a less vanilla and more flavourful campaign.It's just a matter of not going with the default because it's the default.I mean fuck it, if you're going to do that you might as well play 5e while you're at it, asshole.
>>93180966Problem is, yielding to the shitters never solved any problem anywhere at any time.It's the opposite side of the 'Oh, OSR is just a feeling~' crowd, they won't leave you alone just because you move away from them.They'll follow you instead and continue to radiate that big retard energy, killing conversation wherever its had, be it with 'Oh but what is OSR really UwU' or 'No, it's not in mah bible so it's not OSR, fuck you.'A single thread for OSRs would work fine if they'd just stop shooting from the hip on full auto any time anyone gets a little off the reservation.
>>93181048At least if there were 2 distinct threads the shitters could be kept at bay, it would be as simple as telling them to fuck off to the other thread. Yes shitters will always shit their pants, but doesn't mean you have to wipe up after them.
>>93180785This is a great concept and I also desire examples.
>>93180785yeah, it's called The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe.
>>93180863You can discuss ACKS in here just fine. That doesn't mean everyone will think it's a good game, or be interested in doing so.I'm baffled by the recent outbreak of amnesia as to how 4chan works. It's a mob of anonymous users with differing opinions.I don't think any significant number of people would try to argue with a straight face that ACKS isn't OSR. But you absolutely will get guys (like the CAG crew) who will argue that it's not good as a proper old-school game for X and Y reasons, and you should use AD&D instead. That's normal debate, and a lot of the commentary here is along that line. Since we have an actual idea what OSR is, unlike 99% of OSR spaces, we can argue about whether or not a given game helps the player achieve what they're actually using it for (which is entirely separate from them having a good time with it). Ideally you have better debate than "it's OSR; nuh uh", but that's another matter.Same thing with B/X. Same thing with any rules engine, really.
>>93181211The problem with the discussion around ACKS is that there's a shitload of bad faith fuckers out there who hate it because they hate the writers supposed politics.And they'll make up any justification they can to try and kill any discussion of it from 'You're being paid to talk about this' to 'Only Double Hitlers like ACKS' to legit critique (Oh and by the way, play [Reddit Mods favourite flavour of the month, mmm, delicious rules lite gruel) to 'But don't you know he drew a cock on the moon with his own personal Dr Evil Laser?'Which makes and discussion pretty prickly at best.
Can anyone explain the upsides (if any) to the OSR tendency to have all the different mechanical parts of a system working differently? Like to-hit is roll under on d20, but secret doors is x-in-6 and breaking barriers is a d% table and so on?Alternatively, can anyone suggest reasons not to have a simple unified resolution mechanic (everything is expressed as d20 roll under, etc)?
>>93181211There is an /osrg/ discord you can find in the archives that is pulling the strings
>>93181269>hate it because they hate the writers supposed politics.>make up any justification [such as] You're being paid to talk about thisno, I post this because you motherfuckers take every opportunity to bring it up
>>93181311Yeah and you pretend that it isn't a fact that some people who aren't (you) go full schizo over it because of their own politics because acknowledging that would mean I'm not wrong to mention it.Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining asshole, you know full well that I'm right.
>>93181307The upside of not having a unified mechanics are (1) that it allows us to use the old materials without changing them (2) it keeps the WotCtards away. There is no downside to not having a unified mechanics, as long as you're not a WotCtard.Same goes for ascending vs descending AC and all the other retarderies WotCtards periodically bring up. Yes, we could use ascending AC. No, we won't do it, because we don't want to rewrite thousands and thousands of pages of published manuals and adventures to help arithmetically challenged people who can't subtract. (Not to mention we legally can't because of copyright issues.)
>>93180655Idk bud sounds like you are letting the schizos get to you.
>>93181307You can calibrate everything differently while breaking monotonyA -1 on d20 thief skill is barely noticeable, a -1 on a d6 thief skill is huge
>>93181703>monotonyThat's an interesting note. I'm usually of the opinion I want the rules and rolls to "get out of the way" so having everything work in a standard way is helpful. Would you say that's boring?
>>93181729>I'm usually of the opinion I want the rules and rolls to "get out of the way"Then it honestly sounds like you're in the wrong place, because rolls and rules are essential
>>93181954I didn't say they weren't! I'm just much more interested in that player skill stuff, like choosing the right actions and asking the right questions. Procedures are key, rules are necessary, but they aren't where any of my enjoyment comes from directly. As such I want them to be fast, neutral, and consuming as little thought as possible.
Basic ass question, but: in your experience, is hexcrawl fun to play? I want to start an OSE campaign soon and I love the idea of hexcrawl and actually fuckin' exploring things, but I sometimes feel underwhelmed by the rules. As players, or even GMs, how do you feel about hexcrawl during play? Is it a gimmick or does it work? I have limited OSR experience and usually run Call of Cthulhu or sci-fi games.
>>93182030You HAVE to put cool stuff in your wilderness. I've seen people try and hexcrawl through "light forest, temperate" for hours and give up in bafflement.If - like most people - there's no novelty in the average encounter table for you because of cultural exposure AND your GM isn't fucking insanely good at verbal storytelling, you're going to have a bad time. The only way through is to generate a wilderness with stuff the players will care about and that will provoke their sense of wonder and/or curiosity.All the shit about resource management and getting lost and marching order is a sideshow if there's nothing but average Iowa countryside going past the party's wagon.
>>93182030>but I sometimes feel underwhelmed by the rulesWhy? The rules are great. What is your issue with them? Are you sure you understand all of them, including encumbrance, movement rate, getting lost, weather, evasion and pursuit, hunting, foraging, and so on?Also: You *must* use the % in lair values from the MM if you want to make the wilderness even more memorable. That's how you create a living, mysterious, unpredictable environment even for the DM.
>>93180863It's the anon who got booed off the stage trolling about ACKS, no one here actively gives a shit they just think they can pull some sort of gotcha and everyone will accept their 2nd+ItO Mashup as the bestest thing ever. We've had half a dozen persistent trolls that eventually got into janitorial since one of them tried to push lotfp hard before covid and didn't take criticism well.
>>93182321>Why? The rules are great. What is your issue with them?I feel confident that I understand the rules, but I wondered whether they are fun in actual play. I think >>93182104 had a good point about making sure that every hex is worthwhile and has something beyond barren, nondescript landscape.
>>93180644Medsmedsmeds. It's this anon. They're premabuttblasted and it refers their walls of text incomprehensible. The can't take criticism or reflect, the can only take offense. The still won't leave though
>>93180767They're not,you're just hysteronic. >>93180837
>>93180837See shit like this. You're so janked up on your own days and persecution you won't ever accept anyone eles ideas.
>>93180966Ten wouldn't be enough. Its the dicord problem of constantly fleeing ideas you don't like. Makes sense you've migrated it back here. It will just end up being 10 dead generals propped up by samefagging and >thoughts? >hype? Go play some games,post about the results.
>>93181048Calm down. Learn to listen. Get 'shot' less.This isn't Twitter where you have to exaggerate everything I to a dramtic personal incident.
>>93180966The non-/osrg/ thread just turned into newbie FAQ slop. Nothing of value materialized. Please do discuss ACKS anywhere but here though.>>93181269It's not an OSR game, it's a game you can lift ideas from but it's FOE at it's core.>>93181307different dice = different odds.>>93182030I've had fun hexcrawling, so have my players.
>>93180767If the players are trapped in the megadungeon then they will need to be self sufficient so maybe give players xp for making use of stuff they find around the dungeon. Like a small amount of xp for cooking food and a bit more for crafting stuff like armor.
>>93182352>>93182363>>93182369>>93182411>Having to blow-by-blow my posts with (you)s>Have to claim I'm some other rando instead of addressing what was said>Still can't make an argumentNice attempt but kindly state your case against what I've actually said or fuck off.Those're the 2 options.
>>93182416>different dice = different odds.Yeah, I get that. However, imagine that you were always rolling the same dice, and that the target number just changed. You wouldn't need to remember if it's 1 in 6 or roll 1-3 on a d20 or look up the table which says it's 16% or what have you. Just standardise on one type of roll so all you have to remember are the target numbers.
>>93182482ntaYou're obviously the problem.
Anything wrong with a Premium hardcover print on demand of this?
>>93182537Yeah? Well I say you are that anon and you're trying to puff yourself up.See, we can both make baseless statements without engaging with what the other person is saying.
>>93182591No. They make great kindle for a bonfire.
>>93179772No. It really isn't.
>>93182030If you don't do it you're running a shit game
>>93182692>You'd be giving money to an organistation that has a mission for itself to stir identity-based tension and hatred.I understand that and agree, I've read Abigail Shrier.I'll go looking for a second hand copy.
>>93182416>The non-/osrg/ thread just turned into newbie FAQ slop.Nothing of value materialized.lol re-read this thread here. Then point to all the 'value' - please.
>>93182743Based syndrome
>>93182743They are what /tg/ calls nogames. If that pic upsets you then you are probably too retarded to play any tabletop game.
>>93182591The text was scanned in from old books during the typesetting of these new editions, which introduced many new and exciting typos that are fully catalogued on Dragonsfoot for your convenience.
>>93182812Thank you very much, I'll go check them out.
>>93182812>>93182828https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69162
>>93182837Excellent, the DMG seems to have the least errors which is nice.
>>93182917Still a garbage POD like all of the other hard copies on DTRPG. Avoid, or you’ll probably end up regretting it. You can get one of the actual Premium copies (not PODs, which you mistakenly called “Premium” copies) on eBay. They’re obviously more expensive, but not too much to not be worth it. At least they won’t fall apart due to being bound with cheap glue and being made of cardboard.
>>93182971>PremiumI was referencing the paper quality option on DTRPG.I'd go for a 1979 copy in a heartbeat, wotc can rot for all I care.
>>93182989Ah, yeah, I forgot they stupidly called their paper “premium”.Anyway, if you can save up enough for, or just outright afford one of them, get the Premium reprints (they will have the “Gary Gygax Memorial” tag on the cover if they’re still sealed) from years ago (I can’t remember how long ago they were released). They’re great editions and made very well. The actual, original copies from way back when are probably pretty good, too. Just avoid any POD shit if at all possible.
Anyone got some good high-contrast art to put in the front of the binder I'm using for my three-hole punched copy of the Player's Handbook? Here's what I've got on the collage so far.
Let's hope we'll never leave old friendLike all good things on you we dependSo stick around 'cause we might miss youWhen we grow tired of all this bullshitYou have the time you have the powerYou've yet to have your finest hourOSR (OSR)All we hear is OSR ga gaOSR goo gooOSR ga gaAll we hear is OSR ga gaOSR goo gooOSR ga gaAll we hear is OSR ga gaOSR goo gooOSR ga gaAll we hear is OSR ga gaOSR blah blahOSR what's new?Someone still loves you
I played you at a school club back in '92I played a mage although we called it an MUIf I was young, it didn't stop you coming throughOh-a oh-aThey took the credit for your game called D&DRewritten by machine on new technologyAnd now I understand the problems you could seeOh-a oh-aPimped out your childrenOh-a oh-aWhat did you tell them?Pharoah killed the OSRPharoah killed the OSRHickman came and broke your heartOh-a-a-a-oh
>>93183150>>93183251
running an OSE session tomorrow after coming from 5e then shadowdark. any advice for handling ability checks/what to replace them with? should i even call for them at all? its the main way i've handled most things ive run so far (make a STR check to bust the door, make a DEX check to dodge, you have advantage/+1 for this based on X) but it seems maybe more uncommon in OSE outside of shadowdark which uses them heavily.
>>93183251And now we meet in a local studio (Oh-a)We do a podcast about games from long ago (Oh-oh-oh-oh-a)And you remember the weekend used to go(Marching Order)You were the first one(Marching Order)You were the last onePharoah killed the OSRPharoah killed the OSRIn the mines, on level fourWe can't rewind, we've gone too far
If you reply with a hireling, I solemnly swear to include them on the table of hands-for-hire when I run my game this weekend. Just need to know:>name>weapons and armour>misc. other items>background>physical features>personality traitsHere's my list so far:>Gutthart>longsword, battered breastplate>50gp worth of counterfeit promissory notes>bankrupt wine importer>looks like Jamie from Mythbusters>always giving pseudo-profound Stoic Mindset advice to players>Roland>dagger, crossbow (w/ one poison bolt in addition to normal ammo)>convincing-sounding clay bird whistle>poacher>gaunt, dark-ringed eyes, long lank black hair>sometimes wanders off silently, 'to look around'; 2 in 6 chance the players notice him leaving>Pozzo>harpoon>statuette of stacked fertility goddess from distant ocean isle>decommissioned sailor>short, grizzled, leathery, puffer-fish-esque>cannot refuse a bet, however risky, if he thinks the odds are fair
>>93183875>any advice for handling ability checks/what to replace them with?Based on your two examples, it sounds like you might need to read the rules more carefully and also read a few manuals for "unwritten rules" on what to use when:>make a STR check to bust the doorOpen doors check, it's a rule: 2-in-6, Strength AS modifier applies.>make a DEX check to dodgeNothing like that, depending on the situation it's either a to-hit roll or a saving throw vs. Wands.But yes, in cases in which there is not specific applicable rule, and a hit roll or saving throw don't apply either, you can either ballpark X-in-6 chances (no ability score modifiers) or 1d20 roll under an ability score or pretty much anything else you like.
>>93184062>and also read a few MODULES
>>93183926>Leonarto>Dagger, heavy crossbow if his other gear is on a wagon>Wheelbarrow of tools and equipment, including a hand-cranked drill machine to bore through locks>Artist, designer of mechanisms, loans himself out as a trap-disarmer and big-door-defeater.>In town he's a somewhat foppish gentleman, but when dungeoneering he's all business.>Would rather be off designing siege weapons and flying machines for royalty but is currently persona non grata and trying to make ends meet. Sad about it, but not bitter unless he's drunk.
>>93184062cheers yeah that's helpful. particularly just rolling a trap as a to hit which is really obvious to me now lol. this will be my first time playing or dming ose at all.mainly stuff without explicitly written rules has me wondering about how to handle some random situations as i sit down to prep and all my previous sessions are just attribute d20 checks for like 50% of situations but was thinking maybe i'm approaching the thought process incorrectly altogether for this game. my examples are just examples of what im used to as a comparison.besides that i plan to insert a reskinned tomb of the serpent kings as an introductory learning dungeon for my players. in general im making the switch because the OSE rules lay out dungeoneering and the like in a much more real way. with shadowdark i've really liked the wandering encounters and crawling rounds but wished there was established protocols for fleeing, pursuit, etc like there is in OSE and dont want to brew jank while still being such a noob.
ACKS, 2e, etc. are directly compatible with AD&D so they're OSR. But they're bad OSR. That doesn't make them non-OSR like DCC or Morkborg, they just aren't that good. And that's the difference between 2efag meltdowns and nuSR meltdowns - the latter wants to redefine your hobby, but the former simply can't handle criticism. NuSR shitters will never belong here. But I don't mind guys with bad taste, as long as they can control their god damn autism. This "purity spiral" started because we had too many threads where even an earnest discussion of ACKS would have been a godsend.
>>93184262>they're bad OSRBy which standards? I'm honestly curious to hear why that's the case.>That CaptchaYou're being called out by google, make your case
>>93184297ACKS has skills and feats, so too 2e. Is that not enough? Let's talk about something more fun.I'm trying to run OD&D tomorrow, I have a pile of half finished dungeons, and an abortion of a city sketched out. What's the best way to ensure my campaign isn't shit on short notice?
>>93184205>mainly stuff without explicitly written rules has me wondering about how to handle some random situationsOne thing that's often repeated here and you might have missed: It's highly recommended to read B/X and only use OSE as a reference manual for it, because OSE lacks the examples of play and DM guidance. That one be one reason you are feeling insecure.But anyway don't sweat it, here's a three-step protocol:1. Make up shit as you go.2. After the session, pick up the manual and see if there's anything you've missed or got wrong. Inform the players if needed.3. Ask here when in doubt.>in general im making the switch because the OSE rules lay out dungeoneering and the like in a much more real way. with shadowdark i've really liked the wandering encounters and crawling rounds but wished there was established protocols for fleeing, pursuit, etc like there is in OSE and dont want to brew jank while still being such a noob.Yeah, ShadowDark is highly overrated. You have good taste Anon, welcome to the grog club.
>>93184350>ACKS has skills and feats, so too 2e.I know nothing about ACKS but proficiencies are an OPTIONAL rule in 2e
>>93184372>It's highly recommended to read B/X and only use OSE as a reference manual for itgood shout, gonna hit that tonight before the session then. thanks anon.
>>93184459Enjoy!
>>93184428>Omits exploration rules>Advises against XP/Wandering Monster rules>Increases movement 10 fold>Hickman referenceWhy must you turn this thread into a testament to your lies? The only one of those you can possibly back up is the movement and you're (intentionally) missing out a major proviso on that one.Which is factoring for encumbrance and how that feeds into risk/reward in and of itself.And before you try and say 'You're giving as much proof as I am', pic related, pulled directly from the pdf.If you're going to try and peddle bullshit, at least have enough respect to sprinkle a little coco powder on it before telling everyone it's chocolate mousse.
>>93184504We weren't even talking about ACKS>proficiency throw
>>93184504I was talking about "AD&D" 2e, not about ACKS, what drugs are you taking?
>>93184539In that case completely ignore me, I thought you meant 2e of ACKS.>Proficiency throw1 in 6 buddy, don't pretend it doesn't exist.
>>93184551>I thought you meant 2e of ACKS.That misunderstanding has come up a few threads ago. It helps calling it ACKS II (its actual name) rather than "ACKS 2e".ACKS has some FOE-ish elements, but it's much closer in spirit to OSR because, indeed, it supports all of the core mechanics of OSR, and furthermore it fleshes out mechanics that are needed for OSR play but were never fully detailed in the OSR editions, sadly. So yeah, discussion of some aspects of ACKS is perfectly fine here AFAIAC.
>>93183926>Conrad>Plate, Shield, Great Helmet and a single dagger>Dowsing rods of sturdy oak>Insists that he owes a debt to one of the PCs, wants to "get this over with", refuses to say anything else about himself>Sounds middle-aged, if helmet removed he looks familiar but you just can't quite place him >Will do anything no matter how dangerous or demeaning for the PC he owes a debt to, but will complain loudly about it
Favorite death and dismemberment tables? I'm adopting the AD&D -10 hitpoints, lasting wound at -6 approach.
>>93184604>Favorite death and dismemberment tables?Rules that introduce differential treatment for PCs vs everyone else are quite FOE, so don't tell anyone, but when I do, I use the HârnMaster injury determination tables.
>>93184372different person entirely but i also just picked up OSE on a whim and didn't catch the suggestion to read through B/X beforehand, thank you anon
>>93184660You might find this document useful too, then: >>93179079particularly the list of "defining procedures" on page 2.
>>93184629You mean like morale?
>>93184629A mechanic suggested by the creator of the game is FOE? This purity spiral is getting out of control.
>>93184794>when any creatureI guess that anon was just reminding you to use the system fairly.
>>93184744>moraleThat's a *tool* to determine when creatures run, players are being challenged to determine it on their own for their own PCs, whereas the DM has random tables to determine it impartially, rather than making up shit as he goes. If you had half a brain you'd realise that the DM cannot just decide round by round for every single NPC, henchman, hireling, follower, and monster without some kind of procedure to rely on, a curated Hickmanfagging experience is what you are after, which you probably are since you bring up the "purity spiral" retardery below.>>93184794>unconsciousness and deathThose rules apply to all creatures, genius.>purity spiralYou two are the prototypical 2etard burdened with a fundamental lack of ability to comprehend how Gygaxian D&D works. Picrel.
>>93184262>ACKS, 2e, etc. are directly compatible with AD&D so they're OSR. But they're bad OSR.This is why /osrg/ can't have AD&D anymore.AD&D belongs in AD&D general.
>>93184916>a fundamental lack of ability to comprehend how Gygaxian D&D worksThe 2efag(s) have repeatedly shown they don't know how 2e works either. I'm suspect they're just fans of the modules and setting books.
>>93185425*I suspectlol, editing is hard, ask Arneson
>>93184700somehow this is also the way i learn that ACKS 2e is out, which i've also been somewhat interested ini think i'm learning that i rolled real bad on int and wis irl
>>93185333Lmao no, ADnD 1E is deeply entrenched in the osrg
>>93185333Pathetic troll is pathetic.
>>93185489only the gygax books though, right? ANd not all the parts, right?This is essentially a BX/OSE board. BECMI, RC, 2e, certain parts of 1e, any retroclones that do anything different than BX all trigger purityfags who seem to live on /osrg/ these days. That's why this general has gone to shit and literally every single thread - every single one - is at least 1/2 gatekeeping and bitching about it. This general isn't what it says it is anymore, and older /osrg/ wasn't like this.
>>93185489>>93185551Keep enjoying parsing the DMG on /osrg/ ad naseaum.
>>93185566>Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.BECMI (aside from redbox), 2e, Unearthed Arcana, and so on are not from the game's first decade.
>>93185333I don't exactly hate the idea of several generals, but these patently manipulative posts aren't going to make it happen.
I read through volume one of A True Relation of Raggi's Misdventures in Virginia and The Great Disastrum That Followed €1633.004/10 decent slavery mechanics and it's a fun read but sparse on the game content. And it's very heavy on tables. (D100 items that fall from the sky? Get over yourself.) But there's two books to go, I'm hoping they pick it up a little.
>>93185612>BECMI (aside from redbox), 2e, Unearthed Arcana, and so on are not from the game's first decade.OSE isn't from the game first decade either part. So it comes down to the 'tonal and mechanical fidelity' clause, which (unfortunately) is highly debatable system after system, thread after thread. It's unresolvable by the community. You have your interpretation, I have mine. But the gatekeepers here basically interpret that as BX, with their approved portions of 1e. That may make a fine game, but it makes for a lousy general in its ambiguity (or really in the narrow interpretation and rabid gatekeeping).
>>93185767>OSEBasic Honey without the tits is fine by me, just know you're using a reference pamphlet not a real game.
>>93185767>OSE isn't from the game first decade either part.OSE is a practically perfect clone of B/X from the rules point of view. In fact, it is the only true retroclone of any TSR game ever published, all the other so-called retroclones make changes and omissions. It wouldn't make any sense to exclude it, since the rules are practically identical to B/X except for a couple interpretations of ambiguous passages and corrections for obvious errors.
>>93185425>they're just fans of the modules and setting books.And the kits. They play character creation. 2efags are very familiar with character creation options but have no idea how to actually run the game, even by their own rules, because they don't. There is no 2e DM'ing culture, unlike for AD&D, OD&D, and B/X, that have even sprouted competing philosophies on how to actually run the game. E.g. retire at name level vs high-level non-domain play vs collaborative domain play vs adversarial play, open table vs closed table, how to handle downtime... you will *never* see these discussions in 2e communities. The tops you might get is a suggestion to read Birthright but nobody actually uses it.
>>93185800>AD&D (the real one, not the knock-off)>early BECMI And don't forget the parts of 1e you don't like. And that the OSR movement was largely begun by Goodman and Troll Lord. Those are some (but not all) of your ambiguities that has turned this general bad. Your mind is unknown to most, and disagreeable to many.
speaking of 2e, are planescape and darksun easily adaptable to b/x bros?
>>93185855>OSE is a practically perfect clone of B/X from the rules point of view. In fact, it is the only true retroclone of any TSR game ever published, all the other so-called retroclones make changes and omissions. It wouldn't make any sense to exclude it, since the rules are practically identical to B/X except for a couple interpretations of ambiguous passages and corrections for obvious errors. Does that mean the other retroclones cannot be discussed here? LL? Basic Fantasy? Can we talk about the parts of 2e that are practically the same as 1e? Like we talk about parts of 1e and ignore others? OSIRIC? ACKS? Do you see how futile (if not by my post, from your knowledge of how this general has degenerated) it is to call this "OSRGeneral" but then try to keep it locked up by with patnently questionable gatekeeping thread after thread? Just call it BX general, and be as lenient from there as the community likes. But the definition of OSRGeneral has lost its meaning.
>>93186096>Can we talk about the parts of 2e that are practically the same as 1e? Like we talk about parts of 1e and ignore others? OSIRIC? ACKS?I don't know, can you? Because I've only seen you bitch.
>>93185800Castles & Crusades was released in 2004, and to my understanding pretty much kicked off the OSR movement. Perhaps you could say that OSRIC began it in earnest, as C&C has enough of the d20 system in it, as well as its own innovations, to be considered OSR adjacent at the absolute most these days, but to say that the OSR was purer from the beginning and then defining OSR in such a way as to cut off the stuff that isn't pure (but nevertheless kick-started things) is entirely circular.As for OSR General, the earliest thread I could find with that in the actual subject line, that didn't die after like a dozen posts, is this one from March of 2014 https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/30829197 which starts off talking about Castles & Crusades, DCC, and Dungeon World. Meanwhile, this one from July of 2015 https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/41160538/ is the first to have "/osrg/" in the subject line, features Castles & Crusades links in the opening post, and contains discussion of 2e. Note that there were probably a bunch of threads that didn't put anything in the subject line (it took a while before that became a standard thing for /osrg/, from what I recall) that aren't turning up in my quick search, but these two milestones alone should be enough to disprove the oft-made claim that things like 2e, DCC and so forth were never welcome topics of conversation in /osrg/.
>>93184350>ACKS has skills and featsThose were in ACKS 1e though. Why was it okay and OSR then but suddenly (after reddit banned it) ACKS 2e is not OSR for including the same things ACKS 1e had?>>93185808>>93185855OSEfags strike again
Can you guys stop shouting at retards and give me some damn death and dismemberment tables? Don't care if it makes me FOE, 2etarded, DCCocksucker, whatever, I just want to game man!
Can you guys stop shouting at retards for a second and give me some damn death and dismemberment tables? Don't care if it makes me FOE, 2etarded, DCCocksucker, whatever, I just want to game man! At least point me toward a blog to google search?
>>93186180D61- penis2 - left testicle3 - right testicle4 - 6 roll again
>>93186164gatekeeping to the end....
>>93186165>to my understanding pretty much kicked off the OSR movementC&C was part of a number of pre-OSR OGL systems that came out around then, which tried to rejigger 3e rules into something approximating the "feel" of older D&D. C&C and DCC are the only games of that group to still be remembered, C&C because Gygax wrote for it, and DCC because it is its own thing and doesn't play like anything else. The OSR began on K&KA and Dragonsfoot, not with C&C.
>>93185614At this point, I feel like we need two. One for the uptight folks who scream FOE at anything outside their tiny box of acceptability, and one for more open discussion of OSR and OSR-related systems. The trick is that the /osrg/ title carries weight, and is the uptight, narrowly-defined thread, while B/X General is the most viable alternative, which is ironically welcoming of a broader range of games. And while I think people on /tg/ would be most happy with the kind of split I'm talking about, getting everybody to realize that and go where they should go would be like herding cats, especially given the confusing thread titles and the legacy influence of this one.
>>93186165THANK YOU! Yes, it turns out there is an archive the turdy gatekeepers don't like to remember. But some of us have been around for awhile, and where there at the renaissance. This current over gatekept general isn't the same.
>>93186210>tried to rejigger 3e rules into something approximating the "feel" of older D&D.That's a stupid way to say 'tonal fidelity'. There was some mechanical fidelity too, but not enough for your gatekeeping in 2024 (we know, we know...) Anyway, glad you acknowledge how the renaissance began. Now ruminate how your gatekeeping hurt this general.
>>93186237/fosrg/ (free OSR general) if you're feeling cheeky.Old School D&D if you just want a name that clearly communicates what you're dong.
>>93186237You are right - this general no longer deserves the weight from the legacy though. This should be renamed to BX general and then their ridiculous gatekeeping standards can make a little bit of sense.
You all remember what to do whenever anybody says the secret word right?Scream!That's right. For the rest of the day, whenever anybody says the secret word, scream real loud. Ready? Let's try it. The secret word of the day is...Purity spiral!
>>93186293I mean, I'm down with either.>>93186300Yeah, but then you'd have to get the gatekeepers to agree to that and effectively abandon osrg for something else, and good luck with that.
>>93186242>turdy sus
>>93186165The OSR began because C&C promised old-school and then failed to deliver. It was as much a reaction against C&C as it was against 3e. The difference is, C&C was merely disappointing where 3e was actively loathed. I was there, I saw it for myself. In fact, fuck it, I clearly remember it better than this fuckin' guy >>93186242, so listen up. Here's what counts as OSR:- D&D (all of it: 3LBB, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, 1070/RC/1106)- AD&D 1e- Clones and hacks of D&D and AD&D 1e that keep XP for treasure- The very few AD&D 2e adventures that use XP for treasureAnd that's it. Those are the only "purity" conditions: TSR D&D mechanics, and XP for treasure. Most of 2e is not in the fucking club. DCC is not in the fucking club. NuSR shit is not in the fucking club. So says me, the OSR Pope-for-Life, and if you don't like it, you can kiss my grog nards.
>>93186915Shut up Diaper Master FOE
>>93186915The guy's problem is his refusal to take his meds, not that he hasn't been informed of the history over and over. It's not a secret, it's never been a secret. He just keeps pretending like there's this buried alternate Dan Brown history of the OSR out there. And if you give him links, they don't count because reasons.Everyone knows this about C&C that was either there or can be bothered to do an hour of research. But you can't reason a guy out of a position he never reasoned himself into in the first place.
>>93186915C&C as a system is only valuable as a historical curiosity, a relic from the days before OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord, when people were afraid to clone the original rules. The core rulebooks have no other value to the OSR at this point. There is more value in the modules Gygax wrote for it, but what little I've read didn't seem like his best work. All in all, nobody gives a shit about C&C anymore other than whiners trying to topic-shift a general which has had a clear, simple definition of OSR for over a decade now.
>>93187017>trying to topic-shift a general which has had a clear, simple definition of OSR for over a decade now.The people who say this are the same people who cry about 2e and NuSR systems "occupying" their thread for years at a time.
>>93183926KabutaiLeather & shield (6), Spear (d6), dagger (d4),Rope (50'), waterskin, sack>human with long straight black hair, almond eyes, flat nose>laconic, non-chalant, good with horses>>93186293talking about free osr, why hasnt there been a free (as in freedom) clone of B/X or OD&D yet? It's mostly non-free licenses such as OGL. Can't we at least use ChatGPT to paraphrase OSE/BX/LBB and put it on web or something? To secure it forever.>>93186915'91 and '94 Basic are also OSR, even though the time-frame doesn't match to the definition. Basic line stayed true till the end, and had very small change thru the years. '94 being my favourite to give to the new players, as it provides examples throughout the book.>>93186969Is there a way for us to complain about this 2e-mod to the admins of 4chan? You see... >>93187073
>>93187109Yes, there are shitposters who cry about it. You gonna cry about it?
>>93181096I vaguely remember some examples I just don't know how to google for it properly. I just gave up and hacked a random dungeon and turned one of the rooms into a nuclear reactor and a control room.
My players are about to take a ten-day journey to a major city. They're planning to follow a road, so it shouldn't be a hex crawl, right? Just have random encounters to keep it interesting?
>>93187606You're using outdoor movement rates but if they're following an established road they'll get less encounters per day because of their travel speed. Keep in mind encounters can be things like patrols, caravans, and pilgrims. There certainly can be hostile stuff on the road but it's a civilized area so to speak.What does your encounter table look like?
>>93187606A hexcrawl is more about the concept of overland exploration in general than it is about the hexes. In your case you sound like you have a straightforward trip with a clear goal, so it's less exploration and more moving from A to B. What they could encounter in that is up to you, but ten days gives lots of scope for more than just the usual "monster attacks" type stuff.
>>93187633I haven't made the table yet. The scenario has mostly been focused on a 20 square mile area that I didn't expect them to leave. But yeah, I would want it to have a much higher probability of encountering other travelers heading the opposite direction (or overtaking them since they're going relatively slowly) than hostile stuff, but not a zero percent chance either.
>>93187671>20 square mile areaAnd there's 10 days of travel? I must be missing something because if they're on a road that shouldn't take more than a couple days at most.
>>93187752The 10 days of travel is to a place outside that 20 square mile area. It's 90 miles away.
>>93187606that is by definition a point crawl. A hexcrawl assumes that there aren't any roads at least all the way and you have to go off the beaten path and brave dangers. A pointcrawl is a trip between two established locations and and the in-between that happens like weather slowing you down, random encounters on the road but mostly friendly or indifferent ones like merchant caravans and patrols etc
>>93187125>Can't we at least use ChatGPT to paraphrase OSE/BX/LBB and put it on web or something?Do it, post the results.
>>93187606I would run the travel as a hexcrawl but do NPC travelers for half the wandering Monster table. Let them meet some people on the way there.>Can't get lost on a road.>They move fast.>Area sounds patrolled.
>>93186915That is true>>93187125That is also true
>>93184428Why was this deleted? What rule did it break?
>>93183024Far as I hear POD copies are fairly decent quality and many of the original are beat-up to shit at this point. (also $100 per book is way too much even for premium copies imo) At this point i'd probably just look at a pirated copy of the premium PDFs, edit the typos out with a PDF editor, replace the front and back with good scans of the cover art (pretty sure high resolution pictures exists of all the 1E core books albeit minus the text) and print them off Lulu in high quality paper. It'd likely still be far cheaper overall and with better quality binding.
>>93185767>communityYou're not part of any "community" and there's nothing unresolvable about the definition whatsoever no matter how much it grates on you.
>>93187017>but what little I've read didn't seem like his best work.A lot of it was just his notes and directions being worked over by others like Talanian.
>>93186041>the OSR movement was largely begun by Goodman and Troll LordWrong. I have no idea where you got that idea from.>>93188411>OSR comes out of OSRIC aka the K&K guys.Mostly correct, it's unclear whether the first mention is in the K&KA or DF forum, not that it makes a huge difference, since there is a huge overlap between the two communities.The first known mention of "OSR" was by T. Foster in this comment on Dragonsfoot, on 11th August 2004, in which he references discussions in the K&KA forum.https://web.archive.org/web/20210624211010/https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6938&p=104407&hilit=old+school+revivalIf anyone has any proof to the contrary, I'd love a link to it, so the wikipedia article about the OSR can be corrected.
>>93188496>huge overlapBy which you mean all the K&K guys had accounts there but rarely ever post anymore outside of K&K.
>>93188516Not sure what you mean by this. You're saying they've become more insular recently, or were already so back in 2004?
>>93183926>Luca>Quarterstaff and leather armour with mushroom growths on it>Carries a collection of mushroom based artwork he produced.>Druid-turned-necromancer>Big red nose, horn-shaped mushrooms on his head, overall covered in mushrooms>Hates mushrooms but can't cast spells without using them If you don't want hirelings to cast spells just make it into a mercenary instead of necromancer
Is D&D 2E still the one with the most material? The most settings, adventures, side books etc?
>>93188620If you mean the most ungameable material and busted splatbooks then yes.
Do fighting withdrawals in AD&D still halve movement like in B/X? Gary doesn't say in the PHB or in the DMG.PHB p.104-105 for reference.
>>93186165Helps to make note of how they're talking about C&C, DCC and DW. All of the post are talking about how they're not really osr. Not that they're bad, but being clear about what they aren't in a polite way. That clearly didn't work. We're 10 years in and people still shitpost about it because they got told their favourite new thing to buy isn't the cool kids club thing.
>>93186180>>93186190Hello newfriend. ACKS has some interesting ones. I've found the tables add a bit of flavour but slow things down and make a party of cripples who can't do much so makes actually playing the game man less enjoyable. They're cute for oneshots if you want splatterpunk effects or are into mudcore flagellation but that's about it.
>>93186915>and they hated him for he told the truth
>>93189470Yes, they do (source: Combat & Tactics)
>>93189470There is no information on any speed difference between the two in the core AD&D manuals, but Swords & Spells (1976) has withdrawal as half speed. The certain differences are:1. Both have to be declared before initiative is rolled.2. With Falling Back, any opponents who are not otherwise engaged can just follow along (independently of their round declaration), meaning that at the end of the round you are still engaged and you still have the same problem you started with if your goal was to retreat. So it's usually used to switch places with a friend, or when a friend is already in the front line and is able to prevent the opponent from following.3. With Fleeing, the opponents might get an attack against your back (it is again ambiguous whether the opponents always get to make an attack, or only if they win initiative), but either way after you've made your move for the round, you are now disengaged, since the opponents do NOT get the chance to chase you this round. You could theoretically use this opportunity to cast a spell next round, but in most circumstances this has the DM switch from the Combat to the Pursuit procedure.>>93189741>Combat & TacticsThe screenshot is from the original AD&D PHB, not from the 2e knock-off, so that's irrelevant for Anon's question.
>>93189780Thanks. This information actually helps a lot. Interesting that a somewhat neglected OD&D supplement is where these rules come from.
>>93189849>Interesting that a somewhat neglected OD&D supplement is where these rules come from.It's actually not that uncommon for that to happen in AD&D. Although this is never stated explicitly, the manuals were written one at a time, as progressive expansions to OD&D. So in 1977 you would be playing OD&D plus the Monster Manual, in 1978 you would be adding the PHB, and in finally in 1979 you would add the DMG. This means that although Gygax wanted AD&D to be completed by the time the DMG came out, some things here and there were still left unspecified.Oh and you only knew what Ability Scores of 19, which are possible at character creation, actually did only when Deities & Demigods came out in 1980.Last but not least, a good chunk of the DMG is collated magazine articles, so they were originally actually explicitly written as "expansions" or clarifications for OD&D.Ultimately Chainmail-3LBB-supplements-AD&D are best understood as a single game that was progressively expanded and refined over the years.
Mortgage MonsterHairy thing with an oversized mouth and big pointy teeth, bipedal with small claws on paws, thumbs.Always the same number as player characters, hirelings are considered to be mere renters.If the player character has less than 100 GP on them in treasure, the monster is 6 HD, if they have less than 1000 GP, it has 4 HD, more than 1000 GP and the opposing monster has 2 HD.Antipodean Morgate Monsters use double GP values.They never pursue if money is dropped.They never check moraleTreasure is always in gold coins and is equal to HD x 2.
>>93184586>>93184586>>93187125>>93188596Excellent stuff, lads - thanks
&Magazine seems like the writers just want to make OSR games easy based on issue #1, does it get any better?
>>93187125>why hasnt there been a free (as in freedom) clone of B/X or OD&D yet?DARKBAD>inb4 some purity spiraller implies DARKBAD is not a perfect fit for all campaigns
>>93193379#2 has an article on weakening level drain, so there's more of that to come. At the same time, I wouldn't say anywhere near the bulk of it is like that.I found it like most OSR zines: a mix of fluff and stealable bits. It reminded me of, say, Dragon magazine circa early 2nd ed, but with an actual focus on old-school gaming.
>>93187125Wasn't OSE based on a set of free B/X booklets someone posted a few threads back?Made by Gavin Norman, I assume
>>93193689OSE was an outgrowth of B/X Essentials by the same author, yes.
>>93193678Roger that.In issue 1 when the author suggested letting Magic-user start with a wand of magic missile I was ready to throw it all out.
What happened in your last session? In mine, 2eens (fiend folio) summoned a D'janni to wreck the players' idyllic hometown while a few swamp trolls came in to terrorize the humble innocent scholars and old folks of the kingdom. And my players response was to just split the party?
>>93193822I opened the fiend folio and jumped to Tween before I realized you didn't say D'jinn. Good job, anon!
For about a month now, my group has been playing B/X, but as a Pokemon-clone Monster collecting game. It's been pretty fun.Our class is "Beast tamer", and you basically are a magic user, except instead of learning spells, you have to devote time to making this magical talismans that let you capture magical beasts. Not every monster is obtainable. In-fact a great deal of research and speculation goes into finding the locations of said beasts. Each Beast tamer can summon a monster with HD equal to their level, a number of times also equal to their level. Throughout the world there are small dojos dedicated to monster taming and in order to gain information on monsters you usually have to offer aid to those dojos, then defeat their high ranking members or masters in a tamer duel...Other than this, the game is basically exactly the same as we normally play OSR stuff.
>>93166136Is being a FOE like losing your virginity? Because I used to award XP for achieving objectives back in the 1990s and I'm wondering if that means I have to post in the other thread.
>>93194454Lots of us were FOE until we saw the light
>>93194454No, running a proper OSR game by the book as a DM with no houserulefagging is like losing your virginity.
>>93194674Playing without any house rules is modernshit
>>93176102No but that sounds funny
>>93194792Found the virgin.
>>93194928Turn on your monitor
>>93194454What other thread?
The amount of deletion and mod cope has been astounding.
>>93195512I'm gonna be honest, I've never had any post deleted that wasn't literally porn on a blue board so I'm skeptical this is actually happening
>>93195734Where's the porn in this?https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93166136/#93184428
>>93195787Well, assuming you didn't delete that yourself, I stand corrected.
Going to 10 to 1 in mass combat, with different players leading different contingents of troops, then drilling down to 1 to 1 for major battles is pretty coolThe tactical level of combat creates a lot of unique value for certain sorts of troops. We had a contingent of crossbowmen who could move and fire, while our archers fire at a longer range with an attack penalty then move. We also do some low level domain play where we have an incentive to value the lives of our weak militia fighters who are a source of income not easily replaced, and there is a lot of diplomatic & political play that comes into winning over alliesIn pic related we held the advantage in numbers from the start, but the illusionist was under significant threat as in leading the orcs he drew the ire of the orc-hunting knights we helped our corrupt lord politically backstab who focused on him so there was some concern over having a player death. Shortly after this the lord we were fighting rolled very poorly on morale which lead to the complete route with minor losses
>>93195787That's not porn, that's a metapost. These are also metaposts. I understand your confusion, because not all metaposts get deleted, but they're still against the rules and they certainly aren't on-topic. Try talking about games and see how that works out for you.
>>93195902What engine are you using for the mass combat part?
>>93195787Not only is that right, I thought people knew all of it by now and it was relatively uncontroversial.
>>93195903>outlining the differences between AD&D 1e and AD&D 2e is a "metapost"
>>93195920It is. You'll notice that some of the deleted posts are not just repeating the info, but also expressing frustration that someone is even trying to debate basic common knowledge and history.
>>93195903Wait, it's against the rules to debate what's OSR and what's not? Honestly that would probably make the threads way better if it was actually enforced lol.
>>93195908It's B/X with ACKS inspiration for domain and mass combat, I think the DM tried a couple different mass combat systems and has read about a few others
>>93195977I always wonder as to what people pick for these, because there's so many rulesets compared to the number of users for them, and none of them seem to have achieved any sort of dominance.More curious than anything, since I don't have any mass combat in my future that I'm aware of, but I always have the idea I'll try it at once point and have been reading threads on what people use. If you have any thoughts on how the non-tactical part plays out and don't mind putting in the time, I'd love to hear them.
>>93195992The non-tactical part has two components in our play as I see it, there is the roleplay in scrounging up allies in addition to our hired mercenaries (that are a drain on our gold which we never accumulate and always are hungry for), then there is the 1 on 1 combat which is just at a more granular level of play, I'd guess the party is worth 2-4x more than an ordinary unit when you do this. It is literally just rolling a single d20 for a group of 10 units. We just abstract mixed units to a certain type (we treat a mixed unit of 4 veteran men-at-arms, 4 regular footmen, and 2 dragoons as an ordinary unit of veteran men-at-arms). We've over time improved the effectiveness of our units with better gear through roleplay and direct upgrades for cash.The domain aspect comes in at the strategic level as we want to retain our militia as they are part of our tax base, and we want to expand our domains as we have the ACKS-inspired liability we have to pay every month.We've been on a knife's edge financially speaking and take out high-interest loans from NPCs in order to finance incremental improvements and mercenaries from the very beginning, usually we only have 1-2 sessions in our party treasury for upkeep expenses so there is a constant pressure to optimize cash flow.A very minor issue in longer term play might be that the prices (and income) aren't normalized to match the resources we use given we've used different B/X - OSE - Basic Fantasy prices, while we're leaning heavily on ACKS mechanics for recurring expenses. I think normalizing your prices (which is not going to be easy, and is a big value of ACKS) will give you a better experience.
>>93194454Reclaim your spiritual virginity, then protect it with AD&D 1e.
>>93195908>>9319599210 to 1 is simple and combat takes twice as long instead of ten times vs the alternative of being abstracted to dissatisfaction. Single target spells are pointless and there is more weight given to movement and numbers and AOE style spells. I think the only issue is that if a player isn't controlling a group of units then the play gets boring, so there should be some agreement and mass combat shouldn't happen until there are at least 30-40 units per player to give everyone something to do.
>>93185612>BECMI (aside from redbox),Close but no dice, just like some early box sets. Mentzer Basic and Expert Sets both came out in 1983. D&D first came out 1974.
>>93196716>Mentzer Basic and Expert Sets>first revisionThat's not BECMI.
>>93196799Do try to make some sense. The person to whom I replied, be it you or someone else said>>>BECMI (aside from redbox)That person cited BECMI but and said only the red box counted, omitting the Expert set. That person was wrong to do so.It is BECMI because it was always intended to be and was the second set in that series which had to extend to at least Companion.>>first revisionSet 2: Expert Rules also came out in 1983 with the lowered thief skill scores etc. Note the renaming bringing it in line with Set 3: Companion Rules.
>>93196970>it was always intended to beSo if, in 1995, I intended to put out a hit record about how many times I had sex with your mom, it counts as having come out in 1995 even if I didn't record it until last year?
>>93195903Bullshit. Posts claiming "2e is OSR" are never deleted, posts explaining why it isn't are deleted systematically.
>>93195976>it's against the rules to debate what's OSR and what's not?Only if you say 2e isn't OSR.
>>93183926>Randall>hammer, light chain mail>a blacksmith that offers to sharpen blades and fix armors on the road>keeps his equipment and personal affairs on a little cart carried by his mule Gertrude>short black hair that are starting to turn white. His thick beard hides a warm smile. Hands big enough that they could strangle an orc, if he wasn't the kind giant he is. >if threatened tries to de-escalate, but reacts violently to anyone that hurts Gertrude or other animals around
i had always wanted to integrate some more stuff from outdoor survival, but then i found this guy had done it already years ago. starvation is rarely used, but its also nice to just have a simple rule in place even if its just a cudgel to make sure players keep hold of supplies
Haven't watched this yet, but looks interesting.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QatUOHuKfAU
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