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Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous thread:
>>93166136

>TQ:
Share a funny, disappointing, or infuriating bit from your last session.
>>
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Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a city setpiece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>9. Make a trap.
>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>>
>What's OSR?
>How do I get started?
See attached PDF.
>>
>>93199284
I will make and post the roll tomorrow
>>
Rolled 3 (1d10)

>>93199415
>>
What's wrong with Holmes, anons? Why doesn't it get any love?
>>
>>93199732
my guess would be that its seen almost as an official "house rule" version of the game, regardless of whether that is justified or not, because its basically just a very slightly different version of the rules rather than its own edition. if the first copy you bought was holmes then it makes sense you would play it, if it wasnt then there isnt really a reason to get into it, unlike as if it had been a completely different version
>>
Rolled 1 (1d10)

>>93199284
>>
>>93199732
It was an important stepping stone, but it's incomplete, half-baked, and has some rules that are outright stupid, like daggers making four times as many attacks as 2H swords.
>>
>>93199732
It also wasn't around very long and if you want a simpler version of the game then B/X does that better than Holmes. So it's hard to carve out a niche.
>>
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Which supplement is good for me to build a city? I already have the skills to make dungeons and wildernesses, but I'd like to try out a scenario with a central city.
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>>93200592
There's a lot, ranging from the "detail everything" older-style supplement that often drown you minutiae (Haven, City State, TSR's Lankhmar) but are often good to lift things from, to encounters lists like City Encounters and The Nocturnal Table. There's also a selection of weird modern settings like Vornheim and Fever-Dreaming Marlinko, but I'm less fond of those because since they strike more for originality it's less stealable as generic content.
>>
>>93199732
If you're going to play Rules Cyclopedia D&D, the game is complete. All you need is the hardcover; you don't need 1070 or 1106 at all if you already know how to play.
If you're going to play BECMI, you need a red box. Mentzer Basic has rules that aren't found in Mentzer Expert. You need the red box and the blue box at the very least if you're going to play that edition.
B/X is in the same boat. You can't just play Cook/Marsh Expert without also having Moldvay Basic. There are rules in the Basic Set you need to have to play.
(This all assumes that we're not mixing and matching for some reason, like starting with Holmes and then moving onto Cook. While you can do that, there's very little reason to in a day and age where picking the edition you want and acquiring the matching pdfs is trivial.)
Now look at Holmes. It's functionally the Basic Set for the white box; but you don't strictly need it to play with the LBBs. The original rules have holes in them, but you can decide whether you want to plug those holes with Chainmail, or the Strategic Review, or a later edition, or a retro clone, or your own house rules, or Holmes, or some or all of the previous; and picking Holmes does quirky shit to initiative and weapon attacks per round and magic-user scroll-scribing if you use it uncritically.
Holmes on its own only goes up to 3rd level and isn't a complete game. If you just start Holmes, you're eventually either going to move back to the white box or forward to BXcetera.
>>
>you don't need 1070 or 1106 at all
Your autism is kinda cute, Anon.
>>
>>93201179
Is this one of those little "memes" I've heard so much about, where an unremarkable attention to detail is called "autism" for the sake of funny hahas?
>>
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>>93201254
>an unremarkable attention to detail
Totes unremarkable.
>>
>>93200592
Good advice already, adding in
Yoon Suin with a variety of interesting city/urban generators that are orientalist but shouldn't be too hard to modify.
Corpathium is like good Vornhiem if weird neuvo is a thing you want.
Scarlet Heroes has some good resources for generating city adventure and how to handle a more densely populated environment with the Heat score. Simple but works out nicely.
>>
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>>93201254
Yes. Its like when normal people think any interesting art has to be because of drugs or anyone smarter than a wet piece of toast must be a savant.
If anything the refusal to link a post like >>93201179
is more legit autistic. Wouldn't want to get dirty over the internet.
>>
>>93201529
That's me alright! I owe 4chan a huge debt of gratitude for all their work raising autism awareness!
>>
>>93199265
D&D is like a procedural generated roguelike, that's how you guys play it right? with hexcrawls and perma death?
>>
>>93202150
It's the other way around, Anon. Procedurally generated roguelikes are like D&D, specifically Appendices A, B, and C.
>>
>>93200592
Something I would consider is what era you are trying to emulate, actual medieval versus the early modern period most cities seem to represent
>>
For those who have never ran domain level of play before, what are some things to keep in mind about it? What's a good general rule to keep in mind about it to keep things from growing out of hand?
>>
>>93202150
Not many roguelikes where you can roll 12+ on a reaction roll,
Parley with the encounter and spiral into an excellent storyline of co-operation.
>>
>>93202378
Domain play can already start at level 2. A dozen mercenaries and a palisade halfway between the main dungeon and the city are dirt cheap and can facilitate hauling treasure a lot. As the party make more money, the palisade slowly grows into a castle.
>>
>>93202566
Bandit camp origin story
>>
>>93202609
Why delve into the dungeon when you can charge a toll from NPC parties?
>>
>>93202378
>What's a good general rule to keep in mind about it to keep things from growing out of hand?
The gp threshold rule from ACKS is a must, IMHO.
>>
How do you like to map lairs?
>>
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>>93202685
>>
>>93202378
Hard to give general advice without knowing some specific about your campaign, what system you are using, and so on.

You should definitely decide on a system to use for mass combat.
>>
>>93200725
The new City Encounters is one I have, and The Nocturnal Table is new to me. I like the idea of it, although even though it's easy to solve the "problem" of quantity (rerolling or handpicking encounters), I like it more as a tool for playing solo. But I'm not saying it's a bad recommendation, it's very good.
I haven't heard about the other books yet, but I'll take a look.
>>93201669
Yoon-Suin I saw when the second edition was being crowdfunded, does it have the same content? And particularly my scenarios are always a mix, so it doesn't get too weird.
I'll take a look at the other two recommendations.
>>93202256
I don't really know which one I want, I only play generic fantasy games, I've never really looked into it. But I wouldn't go for anything too modern, I'd say.
>>
>>93199732
B/Xfaggot cargo cult
>>
>>93202378
Other anons can correct me, but mass combat cannot be done "theater of the mind". It has to be done with counters or minis. There is a lot of setup, and the session is probably going to be consumed by conducting one battle. It is going to feel like watching grass grow compared to normal D&D.
>>
>>93202968
>Other anons can correct me, but mass combat cannot be done "theater of the mind". It has to be done with counters or minis.
It can be done with pen and paper as well. I don't do anything theatre of the mind, but I can't see any obvious reason why you can't do mass combat that way as well.

>There is a lot of setup, and the session is probably going to be consumed by conducting one battle. It is going to feel like watching grass grow compared to normal D&D.
Nope, if you just use the 1:10 or 1:20 scaling rules, it takes as much as normal combat.

Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Ljn5JMcOE
>>
>>93202378
>>93202968
Also, mass combat systems in D&D have to group NPCs/monsters and convert their combined stats into unit strength somehow. It is an extra step that systems built from the ground up for mass combat like warhammer don't have to deal with.
>>
>>93202150
Sorta but different. Roguelikes as already stated, are derived from older versions of d&d. The procedures in osr play are a creative aid and order of operations that leads to emergent gameplay in ways computers can't really do.
>permadeath
Do people not?
>>
>>93203330
>mass combat systems in D&D have to group NPCs/monsters and convert their combined stats into unit strength somehow
Not if you just do unit scaling.
>>
>>93202626
No risk means no xp.
Bigger tolls aka the local full harness.
>>
>>93203380
>Do people not?

To be realistic, it's not like coming back from the dead is all that unusual once you get to the mid levels. I mean, there's ways that prevent it, and you might fail your resurrection roll or whatever (5-20% failure rate is typical), but you can have characters returning multiple times.
>>
>>93203385
Unit scaling sounds great if you have 200 bandits and 100 orcs, but what do you do with the red dragon and the beholder?
>>
>>93203388
Demanding an NPC party of unknown level cough up part of their loot is not exactly what I'd call "no risk".

Rather, you are making it sound like you are the kind of DM who will punish the players for not going along with your preconceived and quite limited idea of what a campaign should look like.
>Dungeon delve or else no XP for you!
Is not what OSR is about. Players are free to selve, explore the wilderness, create a domain, start wars, become bandits, play against other PC parties, and so on.

Unclench your D&D sphincter.
>>
>>93203517
Delta's Book of War uses level. A tenth level unit = 10 level 1 soldiers.
>>93203537
The rules say treasure must be taken from the dangerous wilds and brought back to safety. Levying taxes doesn't count for XP, and I don't see any reason why it should.
>>
>>93203517
At the 1:10 scale, 1/10 hit points and 1/3 damage (assuming each 10-men unit forms in a 3×3 square) or 1/5 damage (assuming a 2×5 formation).

Single-unit effects are neglected unless they engage a PC or high level henchman or similar directly, in which case you zoom in.

Area of attack effects are obvious. Dragon Breath on a platoon of ten Hill Giants deals full damage to the unit (instead of the usual 1/3 or 1/5) because everyone is affected equally.
>>
>>93203566
>The rules say treasure must be taken from the dangerous wilds
No they don't, that's your paraphrase, and even if they did, the afore-mentioned palisade halfway to the dungeon *is* in the dangerous wilds.

It's not like the local lord lets you build palisades inside his domain, and the domain wouldn't be a domain if there's an uncleared dungeon in it, and in any case I there's an uncleared dungeon in it, it's not safe.

As a result, they are subject to attacks from wandering monsters, adversarial PCs, and retaliation from (N)PC parties who refuse to pay.
>>
>>93203537
You were already nogameing into toll boths being a safer bet than dungeons. If you want to play taxman &bean counters you can but its lame af.
>punishing players
Already provided engaging living world risk to unfuck your problem.
Telling your first thought is getting mad defensive and jumping into anus tho.
>>
>>93203636
>As a result, they are subject to attacks from wandering monsters, adversarial PCs, and retaliation from (N)PC parties who refuse to pay.
So there's no reason something like that *shouldn't* accrue XP.

Last but not least, whether taxes give XP is not as easy as you make it sound. You won't find any statement for or against it in any of the 1973-1984 books, as far as I know. The earliest explicit rule I am aware of is in Mentzer's Companion, according to which you do get XP for taxes (some of them, at least). I have personally adopted the ACKS rule on gp thresholds as another Anon mentioned above.
>>
>>93203636
Not alot of money in setting up a toll both in the wilderness. Bad business sense.
>>
>>93203597
I concede the point. I just downloaded Delta's Book of War, and even though it is 24 pages long, it turns out that it just repeats the sentence "Use 1:10 scaling" 24 times, so I guess this really is simpler than I thought.
>>
>>93203670
The fact that setting up a palisade at low level and playing as bandits has never occurred to you or anybody at your table is okay, not everyone has to be creative.

The fact that you find it so threatening that you get angry and invent rules that don't exist to prevent it from happening is telling, though. Sounds like you don't trust yourself to be able to handle it and are too scared to take a leap of faith.
>>
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>>93203681
Depends on if the bad guys are really really stupid
>>
>>93203681
Depends on many specifics, but why not? There's many situations when it can come up and be lucrative. Might not be a toll, for example it might be offering protection inside the palisade for caravans overnight.

Or maybe if poison manufacture is prohibited in the city, you might do it in your palisade. Or something similar for other forbidden goods, a grey market of sorts.

As the settlement grows, it can become a base to strike at a goblin village.

Eventually you might get a "grant" from the kind if you promise to clear the hex.

Doesn't even have to be a party's main gig initially. You can dungeon delve and have all of that happen during downtime. Some sort of (loose or strict) 1:1 time works great for that.

There's so many options to explore.
>>
>>93203719
You can do even simpler than that! Watch the YouTube video linked above if you have the time.
>>
>>93203766
>Eventually you might get a "grant" from the KING if you promise to clear the hex.
>t. phonefag
>>
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>>93199265
>>
>>93203719
>Delta's Book of War
Excellent booklet. You can do even easier if you skip the step of converting from d20 to d6. It allows you to keep the same AC/THAC0 for all units, you just need a bunch of d20s rather than of d6s. It's what I do most of the time really.

d6s are more readable, though, and better suited for rolling in bunches, so I can see Delta's argument for them.
>>
>>93203832
Next thread cover just dropped.
>>
>>93200725
Is that Cities book the same as the Midkemia press one? I know at some point Chaosium did a reprint
>>
>>93203739
>Somebody go back. We're going to need a shitload of coins!
>>
>>93203380
There's a lot of borderline official homebrew for resurrection these days. Some of my favorites are demanding a deity fix it, and if a player comes back their background & personality changes to reflect their near death experience.
>>
>>93204580
Midkemia did the first two printings; the Chaosium one is the third. The Chaosium one allegedly has a smaller page count than the Midkemia originals, but as far as I know the third was completely rewritten rather than just being abridged so it's hard to say how they compare, as I've never seen the originals. I suppose Bytee might have copies.
>>
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Starting up a campaign soon with 8-9 players, most of which are completely new to TTRPGs. Any tips for running big groups? I've only capped out at running sessions with 5 players before

Also, any ideas for starter modules/ adventures? I'm drawing up a dungeon for once they hit level 3 or 4 so they will play something I've made eventually, just dont have too much time for writing because I'm already running another campaign on top of this.
>>
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>>93204858
From the 1st edition: random encounters table
>>
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>>93204858
Pages 1 and 2 from the 1st edition
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>>93204916
I mean, starter modules are in the OP, but you're opening yourself up to a big task by adopting 8-9 newbies at once.

Best advice I ever got for new groups was to make a bunch of pregens, rather than subjecting everyone to character creation. You do not want to be running around the table explaining rules over and over to guys who have absolutely no context for what you're talking about, trying to pass around the limited number of books, bleeding out momentum all the while. You want to get to the damn game.

To this I added minis. I make about half again the pregens I need, add a fun mini from a set of "hero" types I have set aside for this purpose (that is, ones that have a bit more detail and look cool), and just have them ready to go. People come in, and since they have no context for the game none of the rules or stuff mean anything they just tend to pick the mini they like. The most info I give is that one group of pregens lobs spells and one group doesn't, and spells are a limited resource that require a bit more thinking. Guys who just want to hit things with a stick and don't like extra rules select themselves out. I find people tend to stick with what they picked, but if they get hooked but want to try something else they can always switch it up later. Most important thing is to get going.

Beyond that, get extra copies of the rules for when they get into it, so you're not bogging down play with lookups when there's only one copy.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
>>
>>93204974

I appreciate the advice man, I've looked at most of the starters in there and im iffy on a few. I'm already running a group through Hole in the Oak + Black Worm of Brandonsford and it's going really well.

I'm kind of leaning towards trying B2 (cuz how many chances do you get to run B2 with 8 people?) . But I'm interested to see if anyone has thoughts outside of what's in the OP.
>>
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>>93204858
The subtables from the 1st edition for "22. Circus" and "23. God / Goddess"
>>
>>93199423
This room is 20 feet across and has a porcelain bowl on a stand in the middle. If a coin is placed in the bowl the living head of a man will pop out and begin singing in an unknown language. If a coin is taken from the bowl the head will attack (AC9 HD1d6 #atk1(bite) damage1-4). The head can move along it's neck to any point in the room, but can go no further. The bowl contains 2gp, 1sp, and 3cp.
>>
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>>93205014
I'm a big fan of N4 Treasure Hunt as a campaign starter for newbies. I don't care for the 0-lvl rules so I don't use them. But PCs starting with no armor/weapons/spells/equipment is almost the same as 0-level. It's got a good pace, not hard to DM, is not too too dangerous, and can accommodate a larger group of PCs.
>>
>>93205414
Hmm. The adventure starts with a long box text read. On the positive side, it looks like with some modification you could start play without doing character generation. Just roll hit points and ability scores when you first need them.
>>
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Are the Dolmenwood PDFs just out now? Any thoughts/reviews?
>>
>>93204916
>>93205014
This is quick and simple, you can stat it up or down but the main gimmick/puzzle might cause arguments with too many players.

Death Frost Doom or Tower of the Stargazer could work. Those feel designed to split the party, or at least have different characters working on different things.
>>
>>93204916
With that many players and so many being new, I would go with pre-generated characters. It's going to save you a bunch of time getting to the actual play.
I have run several games for new players. I would never do a group of six or more without pre-gens. So much faster.
>>
>>93205872
Good system, better splatbook. I purchased all of them, and I really love the monster book.
>>
How do I track time as a DM? I'm a 5e newfag and I've never done this before.
>>
>>93206060
Turn/Torch/Segment trackers in the dungeon. Print one out and mark them off as you go.
For non-dungeon just mark down X amount of days they've spent adventuring. That way you can make the world seem alive by letting it change accordingly. (until the next session if you don't know on the fly)
>>
>>93206060
Tracking sheets are the best. There's a variety out there, but the OSE one works fine. I made my own, lots of people have done the same.

Basic idea is you treat it very mechanistically: you know exactly what standard actions count as taking up a 10-minute turn (X amount of movement, a combat, whatever player action or actions you rule as requiring that much time), and each time those happen you mark off a turn. You don't just glide over time: it has to be carefully tracked. But it's very easy: 10 minutes, 1 X in a box.
>>
>>93206124
>>93206158
Thank you both so, so, so much. Are there any other things I should be aware of?

I'm running B4 as my table's introduction to OSR gaming.
>>
>>93206060
>How do I track time as a DM?
Physically? Tally marks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_marks

Or are you asking about how the rules work?
>>
>>93206167
>Are there any other things I should be aware of?
As the DM you should consider yourself an impartial referee.
Other than that i'd advise running the game straight before adding in houserules, since I find most of them become superflous and highly theoretical once you get down to actual playing. (some exceptions apply obviously but you wouldn't know which ones without actually playing)
>>
>>93206196
Thank you! Looking forward to a fun game in the step-pyramid.
>>
>>93206205
Good luck, anon. Let us know how it goes.
>>
>>93202968
>Other anons can correct me, but mass combat cannot be done "theater of the mind.
War machine lets you, there's some accounting but it's fine.
>>
>>93206439
War Machine is a spreadsheet, not theatre of the mind.
>>
>>93206167
Have the players elect a caller.
Never tell them the name of the monster, describe it.
Let them know that monsters cannot be surprised if they see your light source coming in the darkness.
>>
>>93206506
>War Machine is a spreadsheet, not theatre of the mind.
I'm very sorry for your loss anon, some day maybe you'll figure it out.
>>
>>93206511
What a poor attempt at a comeback, there's nothing much to figure out about WM, it's just straightforward number crunching.
>>
>>93206507
Thank you. I've never used a caller before, it's basically a spokesman for the team?
>>
>>93206542
>Thank you. I've never used a caller before, it's basically a spokesman for the team?
Did you ever read B/X? It's discussed on Modvay's book, pages 4, 5, 19, and in the examples of play on pages 28 and 59. B/X is extremely useful for newbies because of the explanations and examples of play, which is why we recommend people start by reading it.
>>
>>93206569
>>93206571
Read BX, just a bit confused and new to the system. Apologies.
>>
>>93206607
Nothing to apologise for! Just checking/reminding you of where to get the information.

There's a lot to keep in mind, you'll make mistakes, it's fine. Have fun!
>>
>>93204953
This has be re-typeset in the Chaosium edition, and some of the entries altered.

>>93204963
Also redone. More entries for both.

>>93205036
Exact same.

Overall looks to be a progressive tweak. Mostly it just looks more professional and less "I banged this out on my Smith-Corona last night". There might be an all-new section. This one is broken into "Encounters", "Populating Villages, Towns, and Cities", and "Character Catch-Up" (basically downtime rules, including gambling and random event tables similar to modern carousing).
>>
>>93200592
ACKS 2 Judges Journal has the best settlement-making rules I have seen

Assuming you are capable of doing the creative work yourself and just need mechanics/rules
>>
>>93206060
Not that anon but adding to this, isn't 120ft movement each turn really, really slow?
>>
>>93207244
No, it's about right.
>>
>>93203380
>>93207244
It's assumed players are trying to move quietly in the dungeon, observe their surroundings, map, etc. It's arbitrary but so are many rules in the game as it is THE game. If it's familiar ground and they are in a hurry you might rule they could go faster, but I'd make a wandering monster check because of noise etc.
>>
>>93207505
>If it's familiar ground and they are in a hurry you might rule they could go faster
It's literally an official rule. Off the top of my head it's 3× faster in B/X and 10× faster in AD&D.
>>
>>93207505
>>93207582
And that's for scouting through already known areas, so no extra wandering monsters checks.

It's even faster when running / fleeing / during pursuit, I believe 20× faster in AD&D and 60× faster in B/X, I'd have to check again. That's when you are noisy and need to make additional encounter checks.
>>
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>>93203330
>>93202378
>>93203517
Not really if you just use my supplement :)
I made it specifically for B/X and has its own army builder too
https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxarmybuilder/

>currently working on a domain play supplement for B/X because I need one.

>>93204916
>use a caller
>use a pre-made intrductory module, such as B1, it explains the points to newbie players. and since you don't have time to stock it, here's something for you
https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxstocker/

>>93206060
get a d6. turn it over after each 10-minute segment.
>>
>>93204127
he's either wrong or lying by a scale factor of 10
>>
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>>93207244
Holmes' Basic rulebook (mostly compatible with the Moldvay/Cook B/X rulebooks) explains this well. Also covers the 3x sprinting thing.

Honestly I think most people just ignore the 1-in-6 turns resting rule. I've never understood why it's there.
>>
>>93206060
personally I just use scratch paper and note down six mark marks, you know the kind that is normally four lines and a fifth through it, but instead five lines and a sixth line through it for an hour. I honestly think it's easier than printing off sheets, but I use the odnd encounter rate of a check every turn instead of the nerfed check every other or every third turn which is what creates the bookkeeping need.
But it entirely comes down to which way of doing it is cleaner for you in play
>>
Also have another time tracker sheet. Pies > squares.
>>
>>93207914
> but instead five lines and a sixth line through it
You should keep your tally marks as four lines but make a cross.

||||
/
\

You know I'm right.
>>
>>93207896
>I've never understood why it's there.
Imma blow your mind, Anon.
>>
>>93208104
kek, wouldn't put it past Gary..
but I suppose it is one of those rules that does make the game harder, and easier if you ignore it because you are effectively changing the encounter rate
>>
>>93207952
Nta, but thank you, looks great
>>
>>93203414
iirc there's a chance for things to go wrong or otherwise be a problem with various forms of resurrection, anyone remember where that is in the dmg?
>>
>>93208361
You mean players handbook, constitution?
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>>93205872
They were available through Long John Silver shortly after they dropped I think. Haven't even had a chance to skim them.
The previews were far away enough from the wormskin zines in terms of art direction that I became a lot less interested. Will likely scrape the books for tables or material and print it but unlikely to pay for.
>>
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>>93208376
That's it. Don't have a hard copy of the phb.
The bit in the dmg is just not to mess with that roll.
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>>93207896
Chainmail.
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>>93207856
I like your supplement so far and I believe it is what I will use. (I'm tacking it onto my BFRPG game, it seems like it is compatible.)

If you are making a domain play supplement, I will also look forward to that.
>>
>>93208766
Oh yeah the fatigue rules, that does kind of make sense he would port them over somehow.
Noone would probably want it, but has anyone ever done such a port for actual combat and not just exploration?
>>
>>93209389
>>93208766 speaking, I use fatigue in my home game - and am somewhat surprised that others in the general have not encountered it.

Fatigue, and the hourly rest, adds to the game.
>>
This might be a dumb question but how the fuck do you all keep up with all the different materials that are regularly getting released (Not just for OSR, but in-general.)

Right now I'm trying to look up adventure modules or full campaigns that have been released recently, and while I do see a bunch, is there a regular cultivated list somewhere from a wide variety of publishers and games?
>>
>>93209741
>Not just for OSR, but in-general.
Three steps:
1. I don't look at anything that isn't for OSR.
2. Most of what is published for OSR is actually for NuSR. Easily discarded.
3. What's left is often crap anyway. Its normal to be overwhelmed when you get started, but you gradually develop the ability to quickly a discerning palate that allows you to quickly tell what is worth looking at and what not.

Also remember that you don't need to read anything published to run your own game besides your pick/combo of Chainmail, 3LBB, supplements, B, X, PHB, DMG, and MM.
>>
>>93209793
Okay, where do you go to learn about said materials you mention in 3?

I hate when you post a plain question on the internet and everyone constantly tries to subvert your question. Just answer my initial question or don't say anything, smart-ass.
>>
>>93209816
>Okay, where do you go to learn about said materials you mention in 3?
I am honestly not sure what you mean by this, nor what annoyed you about my reply. There aren't specific materials that I used to develop the ability to discern, I've just read a lot of crap until I've learnt to tell the difference.
>>
>>93209846
>>93209793
Is there a website that I can go to that explains upcoming materials written for TTRPGs from various publishers? When a new OSR adventure module comes out, how does everyone here seem to know about it simultaneously. Where are you all going to learn about these things?
>>
>>93209856
Ah, sorry, my bad. By "how do you keep up" I thought you meant "how do you decide what to look at and what to ignore", not "how do you learn that something is out in the first place".

For me it's an odd combination of /osrg/, RSS feeds, and YouTube channels. There isn't one central place I go to, nor any specific RSS feed or YouTube channel that I would recommend for this purpose to be honest. I imagine some are on twatter and that might be a good place to get instant updates, but I can't stand the platform.
>>
>>93209741
Share thread honestly.
10' pole sort-of.
Rss feed from various writers I like, checking blogs etc.
Most publishers will happily fill your inbox with updates on new things so subscribe to the ones you like.
Flag the the stuff you think looks cool, make a list and investigate it when you have 5 minutes.
Real trick is letting go of fomo. There's lots of stuff, more than anyone could ever actually play. It's okay.
You'll learn your own preferences, what stuff tends to look like you can likely not look into etc. And that will necessarily vary.
>tl:dr poke around, chill, cultivate discerning taste
>>
>>93209625
Yeah yeah I know the exploration fatigue, I've just never seen it used in combat
>>
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>>93211120
The spate of recent splitter threads was mostly trolling, yeah, but TODD is I think pretty clearly not an attempt to kill off this place: they're trying to stake out their own identity and are working hard to paint this place as a separate one full of big unreasonable meanyheads. There's plenty of people who want to do "OSR" things without any of the historical strictures that make it make any sense because caring about meaningful boundaries and guidelines is actually the purity spiral (oft-touted), and there's tons of stuff out there that is labelled OSR that we yell at people for bringing up here. With almost every other OSR space on the net having gone that way, it's not surprising that eventually one of that sort would form here.

Fine by me: I'd rather have something completely separate for all the guys who want to talk about milestone levelling and Dragonlance and sick kit builds and NuSR garbage and so on. I expect it to devolve into formless slop pretty much immediately, but anything that bleeds off those people and kills off the constant screaming at each other here is good.
>>
>>93209741
I've found that the best way to keep up is to collect books and articles that assist with generating and simulating content and material for your games. That way, you're only checking for any cool ideas and jotting them down as they come.

>>93211236
Agreed. It could be worse, like the designated TC shilling thread and the sheer number of comments deleted for pointing out holes in the lore: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93179997
>>
>>93211361
>Feels like trolling, and potentially strangling your own wannabe-general in it crib

Nah. If you're looking to carve out your own space for pretty much anything, the first thing you do is define yourself against the existing standard. And if you've got two separate groups of people and both feel they're in the right, posts about how the other guys are the devil are pretty much inevitable. We've been bitching about their type for years and they didn't even have a general. I'm sure it will die down to the occasional snipe after a while: this is the early stages where people are still getting it out of their system.

In the meantime, I just want to talk about games. There's been some solid posting here and I hope to see that momentum continue.
>>
Anyone know of good one-page scenarios/dungeons about a church?
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Best OSRIC / ADnD 1E character sheet?
My guys said B/X wasn't granular enough so here we go.
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>>93207896
>Honestly I think most people just ignore the 1-in-6 turns resting rule. I've never understood why it's there.
Used the 1 rest per hour rule today
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>>93211883
Try the Dragonsfoot file section on their main landing page (the non-forums part). They had a pile of alternate character sheet formats there last I checked.
>>
>>93211961
Thank you, that's the perfect resource!
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>>93211482
The Ruined Abbey of St Clewd was really nice. Gavin Normal will make a kickstarter for an expanded version later this year, but you can still find the old version in Wormskin #3 and Wormskin #4.
>>
>>93211464
>Nah. If you're looking to carve out your own space for pretty much anything, the first thing you do is define yourself against the existing standard
I think he means that the other thread seems to form around enmity toward /osrg/, condemning it to dying out once they don't have /osrg/ to blame for their frustrations as they're a separate thread. It's not too big a concern for me at the end of the day. The conversations ITT only stand to be more productive.

>>93211883
>>93211961
Seconded. They have a lot of useful free downloads.
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>>93210033
Ah - gotcha. That's interesting: now I am interested to try...
>>
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>>93205872
This will be my OSR for the foreseeable future.
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>>93209856
There’s a thread about new OSR material on RPG.Net that’s updated every so often.
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>>93212764
>RPG.Net
Disgusting.
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>>93202685
3x5 cards mang. I normally stock lairs on the fly, traps in particular I like to set up before the players say/do anything.
>>
>>93212746
Any particular reason why?

I keep hearing about this setting, but I've not really understood what makes it shine compared to the so many others that are out there.
>>
>like domain play but don't want to wait years for it to happen
>give the players the means to seize technical leadership of a minor fief
>scale down all of the usual threats
>have a cannon blast of a time over a fun, still ongoing campaign
By the Gods of Law & Chaos alike, I love the untrammeled freedom of the OSR.
>>
>>93213906
FOE, please go to the other thread.
>>
>>93214452
nice false flag
>>93213906
you did good
>>
Tourist here, I had a question for the osr regulars. OSR's focus on "player agency" rewards players for describing clever ways of interacting with the environment and available items. I watched a game online where players described particular ways of securing themselves during a cliff climb that the judge explicitly said reduced the difficulty of the dice rolls they had to make, and at one point the thief was able to avoid making a climb check altogether by citing a specific climbing technique lumberjacks use IRL and said he'd use that to clamber up an obstacle similar to a tree trunk using just some rope.

My question is, does this preferential treatment subvert the general idea that "a player doesn't have to be good at something for their character to be"? If a players aren't grogs who know and faithfully apply dungeon crawling tropes or esoteric bushcraft/rock climbing techniques from real life, doesn't that kind of make their characters look like unprepared incompetents?

The classic example is that an uncharismatic player should still be able to play a high-charisma character, and the Barbarian's player shouldn't have to bench press IRL to do feats of strength in-game. But players have to be dungeoneers familiar with medieval-level tech and specific applications to avoid dangerous situations with knowledge their professional adventurer characters should have?
>>
>>93214534
>The classic example is that an uncharismatic player should still be able to play a high-charisma character
we disagree with that on its face. charisma is for the number of henchmen you have and their morale primarily, with only an initial reaction in regards meetings. your real world charisma is your gameplay skill, and better players should win
>>
>>93214534
>My question is, does this preferential treatment subvert the general idea that "a player doesn't have to be good at something for their character to be"? If a players aren't grogs who know and faithfully apply dungeon crawling tropes or esoteric bushcraft/rock climbing techniques from real life, doesn't that kind of make their characters look like unprepared incompetents?

I think it's a good question, and one that has come up before even if it isn't one of the big debate points of the field. Because of that, you're not going to get a standard answer.

For myself, I actually cut short people trying to apply what I would consider "tradecraft" knowledge like you described in order to get an edge. I assume that PCs are non-specifically skilled in non-specific ways precisely so that I don't have to be up on all sorts of esoteric real-life skillsets and methodologies to run a game. So if someone was to describe a climbing method to me used by real climbers, I'd say that as experienced adventurers you were always using that and I'm not giving you a special bonus for trivia.

That having been said, you have to be able to reward real ideas that take into account the environment. It's just that as environments and situations both are non-standard, there's no standard way to do that. Overall then, this falls firmly into the "rulings not rules" side of things (except for the broad litmus test I've outlined above), where you draw the line yourself between what counts as good ideas vs bad (tradecraft vs situational inspiration, really) at your particular table. As you've seen, some guys (like the video you watched) would disagree with me.
>>
>>93209856
For yt I recommend Redmage
Substack Earthmote's Enchanted Nimbus (this will probably fall off soon)
Da Archive for all the materials
>>
>>93199265
Regarding traps, it's my understanding that most rulesets require a turn of searching to locate them within a 10x10 ft area, assuming your character has an ability to do so in the first place. My impression is that this is generally not an efficient way to spend a turn, since the odds are usually pretty poor. With this in mind, how should one consider the placement of traps? Should traps generally be contained within rooms and not corridors, so players wont feel like they have to check every square inch while traversing the dungeon? I'm also assuming that due to the usually poor odds of finding a trap, procedures utilizing specific items should be the default method to find them (so instead of constantly looking for traps on the floor, tapping with a 10ft pole is preferred). Do I have the right idea that abilities such as the thief skill find/disable trap is more of a fallback option than a primary method of locating traps, when an appropriate item is unavailable? New DM/ref in case it wasn't obvious.
>>
>>93216785
Welcome to the grog thread! Newfriend.

Some of your questions are on grey areas. I will do my best to distinguish what is RAW from what is commonly accepted RAI.

>it's my understanding that most rulesets require a turn of searching to locate them within a 10x10 ft area
Correct in B/X.

>assuming your character has an ability to do so in the first place
All characters can find room/corridor traps, 1-in-6 chances. Some characters have greater chances. While the rules are relatively ambiguous on treasure traps, it is generally accepted that only Thieves can search for those.

>this is generally not an efficient way to spend a turn
Blindly, no. Players should check traps where there is reasonable suspicion that there might be one. The DM should learn the subtle art of dropping hints that are neither too obvious nor too cryptic.

>Should traps generally be contained within rooms and not corridors
No.

1/2
>>
>>93216785
>>93216850

>procedures utilizing specific items should be the default method to find them
No. Generally speaking, there are no items to find traps. Occasionally a dungeon may have a trap with a mechanism that is specified in enough detail that a player might find it purely *narratively* by describing the precise actions that would identify the presence of a trap, in which case many DMs would not even require a roll, but that is not the norm.

>tapping with a 10ft pole
While no explicit rule is given for this, it is commonly accepted in OSR circles that the ten foot pole has 2-in-6 chances of *triggering* a trap, not *finding* it, the same chances as a character stepping on the trap triggering it. So the ten foot pole effectively acts as an additional row in the party for (most) trap purposes. A trap being triggered by a ten-foot pole instead of by a character stepping on it may or may not be preferable, depending on trap specifics.

>Do I have the right idea that abilities such as the thief skill find/disable trap is more of a fallback option than a primary method of locating traps, when an appropriate item is unavailable?
See above on no "appropriate items" existing to find traps. Different DMs use different house rules when it comes to the fact that a Thief seems to have lower chances to find traps than a regular dude at first level. The most common house rule is probably that the Thief gets to roll twice, once with the standard 1-in-6 chances, and once again with the Thief skill. This mirrors how many if not most OSR DMs adjudicate the interaction between surprise and Move Silently / Hide in Shadows.

2/2
>>
>>93216785
>>93216850
>>93216862
> the ten foot pole has 2-in-6 chances of *triggering* a trap, not *finding* it, the same chances as a character stepping on the trap triggering it

Do notice that I am assuming you are aware of the base 2-in-6 chances to trigger a trap for a character not using a ten-foot pole, rather than the common misconception that that happens automatically, although of course the specific trap's description in the dungeon might dictate otherwise: This is just the default.

3/2
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>>93216871
>>93216862
>>93216850
Thanks for the replies. Not relying on using items narratively makes sense if some sort of deduction is possible when deciding if/where to look for traps, as you say.
So when I'm placing traps, I should generally provide some sort of hint that a trap is nearby, or place them in areas where it would be prudent to check anyway (like near a dungeon factions holdout)? Makes sense. Though I assume that a couple curveballs, in the form of unusual trap placements, are standard as well.
>>
>>93211482
https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/2022/07/roost-in-forgotten-church.html
>>
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>>93216850
>The DM should learn the subtle art of dropping hints that are neither too obvious nor too cryptic
Can you give an example of such a hit oh wise one? I ask sincerely of thee for I suck at this art. Hope this cat can soothe thibe favours.
>>
>>93217091
You have the right idea. This video has a good and easy method for designing traps:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2MCEcPSAzQ
Personally, as a house rule, I strengthen the thief's trap finding ability by treating it as a sort of pre-saving throw. E.g. if a thief walking down a corridor would unwittingly activate a trap, I'll ask for a find traps roll, where on failure the trap activates normally, but on success the thief freezes as the hair on the back of his neck stands up and he notices the suspicious slits in the walls. This doesn't disable the trap (which is still done interactively or, in the case of small traps, with a remove trap roll), and it doesn't explain how the trap works (if he is really careless, he can still take another step onto the pressure plate and activate it anyway; actual saving throws still apply). This also avoids players feeling like they need to proactively roll find traps on every single thing.
Inb4 FOE etc.
>>
>>93213211
For me: perhaps because it’s the “current” offering from the OSE guy (the only not-B/X thing that this OSR community approves of according to the FAQ); I’m new to OSE and almost bought it just as Gavin announced Dolmenwood; and finally the setting is mysterious and magical hidden world of Dark British Fairie.
>>
>>93216785
> thief skill find/disable trap
that's for chests, drawers etc. i.e. treasure traps and not for room traps.

>>93217091
here's a trap generator I made, with the method of telegraphing danger included.
https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxtrapper/
>>
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Is there anything useful to be gained at all from looking into the "brOSR" themed RPG material?

if so, what am I looking for?
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>>93218479
i couldnt tell you because i have never read any of their formal materials, but i did find some of the videos they put up entertaining at least
>>
>>93218479
Not really. I remember seeing a brosr blogpost linked here at some point and it was someone complaining Gygax and the old guard weren't misogynistic enough for his standards, and trying to sell NFTs.
So if paying real money to own a shitty jpeg is your thing, I guess it may be for you.
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>>93218479
I think having players outside of the normal group play faction leaders is a cool idea.
>>
>>93218683
yeah i dont always stand for everything they say, but the main thing of having an actual large size player group is a godsend from people actually trying to advertise the game
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>>93218479
Not really, and if the pic is meant to be taken literally, you should take anything they say with many grains of salt. Some things like the thief may require several house rules to maintain consistent utility as >>93216862 points out, and implying that it is solely a 5e thing is disingenuous.
>>
>>93217796
Very cool - thank you for sharing!
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>>93217345
>>93217796
Good stuff. Thanks!
>>
>>93211482
Its not 1 page but really easily could be trimmed down to a few, but A Single Small Cut is one of the early lotfp
>the dungeon is a trap
dungeons that's not bad.
This one's got some good meat to build on too.
>>
>>93217796
>that's for chests, drawers etc. i.e. treasure traps and not for room traps.
I hate to break this to you, but a trap is a trap.
>>
>>93217238
Not that anon.
My players are not very good at noticing the subtle hints so I have been leaning into overt hints for traps but also for all things in the dungeon so as to avoid only having tells for traps removing the mystery of exploration.
>Canopic jars filled with coins and poison gas, sealed lids with faces carved into exaggerated moon caricatures holding their breath in. If taken out into a full moon the jars open safely.
Was too subtle.
>Section of hallyway with sleeping ward causing living things to pass out, no save, for a 10' section. Describe fallen adventurer, on closer inspection sleeping not dead, stonework in seemingly better condition for that area.
Having an initial impression like a hook and then further detail if they decide to investigate has been going well. Lets them figure out if they have time to mess with the things or move on.
>>
>>93218479
No idea what BrOSR themed RPG material is, never heard of it before, but I think that some form of 1:1 time while no play is happening is brilliant and it's become a must in my campaign.
>>
>>93217796
>>93219300
>treasure trap vs room trap
Could someone clarify this or point to the pages please?
>>
>>93219581
trap in a room
trap on a treasure container
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>>93219581
There is no distinction made between the two because they are the same thing.
A trap is a trap.
Did you really think thieves couldn't check for and disable room traps?
lol.
lmao.
>>
>>93219592
>>93219621
Its come up before, iirc someone posted a section of a rulebook with the distinction. Its of curiosity for those who like to read.
>>
>>93219621
Only doors and treasure containers.
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>>93219673
OK, cool.
Source?
Because it doesn't say anything like that in 1E DMG or B or X.
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>>93219694
>1E DMG or B or X.
Removal of small trap devices (such as poisoned needles)
source: A NEW CHARACTER TYPE FOR DUNGEONS & DRAGONS: THE THIEF!
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>>93219581
IIRC this was a distinction formed by an OSR writer. I recall the first time I saw it being on some kind of Quroa-like page, actually, rather than a blog or something, but the gist of it was that it was a position arrived at by parsing the text, rather than any one unambiguous reference in a TSR book. I'll see if I can dig it up.
>>
>>93220259
>>93219725
Thief article
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>>93220259
Isn't the only difference that only thieves can disable treasure traps? It said something about the lines of those being complicated devices that needed special training
>>
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>>93219694
>>93219725
>>93220259
>>93220317
>>93220380
>>93220380
The rules are not crystal clear. In fact, the rules are not clear at all on any of the Thief skills. I believe Picrel is all that the rules have to say on the topic, and that the current "consensus" has arisen from a combination of reading between the lines, common sense, oral tradition, and trial and error.
>>
>>93220419
>The rules are not crystal clear.
A pit, log or spear trap is not a:
Removal of small trap devices (such as poisoned needles).
Doesn't need to be any more clear.
>>
>>93220419
In OSE it specifies it a bit more
>>
>>93219581
>>93220259

Found the writing I was thinking of. IIRC, Gavin read this and was swayed by it and decided to use the terminology in OSE, which of course spread it everywhere. You'll see the explanation in the second answer, not the first.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/41032/in-moldvays-basic-dd-should-the-thief-roll-twice-to-find-a-trap
>>
>>93220445
A small trap device would be even harder than a large trap device though?
What if it's a small trap device that triggers a big object?
It's still not super clear.
>>
>>93220490
>>93220484
>It's still not super clear.
It is clear and you guys are just trying to come up with a 3.5 mechanic for your thieves.

Door and treasure traps, that is all.
It's okay to houserule, just admit you're houseruling.
>>
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>>93219694 >>93219725 >>93220259 >>93220317 >>93220380 >>93220380 >>93220419
Actually Mentzer is more explicit than Supplement-I and Moldvay, see the updated Picrel

>>93220476
>In OSE
That is known, but it is not a primary source.
>>
>>93220510
I'm not "trying" to come up with anything. The guy asked where it came from and I showed him.
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>>93220484
Huh. I'll be damned, I mean, it makes sense.
I've been swayed.
>>
>>93220526
OK, this nailed it for me.
I guess I don't like the term ''treasure trap", and definitely don't like the ''its doors and treasure only" anon here.
I think ''small traps'' is general and good enough.
>>
>>93220526
So, the % chance is for ANY trap, big or small.
But then you have the ability being useless for the first 2 levels.
I don't get it.
>>
>>93220538
>The thieves' ability Find or Remove Traps does not apply to room traps.
>https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/41032/in-moldvays-basic-dd-should-the-thief-roll-twice-to-find-a-trap
>>
>>93220578
No the search 1 in 6 is for the large traps, the % is for small.
>>
>>93219694 >>93219725 >>93220259 >>93220317 >>93220380 >>93220380 >>93220419 >>93220526
Last reference added to the pic: The distinction between small (treasure) and large (room) traps exists in Moldvay, but is given in a completely different context. Will update the image further if anybody has other primary sources.

>>93220578
>But then you have the ability being useless for the first 2 levels.
You'll have to interpret it. Either use 1 in 6 when it is higher, or allow the Thief to make both checks, or something else.
>>
>>93220605
The image clearly says thieves have a % at detecting ANY trap.
That is ALL traps.
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>>93220615
>You'll have to interpret it. Either use 1 in 6 when it is higher, or allow the Thief to make both checks, or something else.
House rule.
>>
>>93220619
>detecting ANY trap.
I'll take EGG's Thief article and LBB over a Mentzer typo.
>>
>>93220628
Cool.
I won't.
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>>93220628
Can someone post that old article about the Jack class? I need it for reasons.
>>
>>93220578
The thief is not a well designed class.
>>
>>93219299
Why is it so vague?
>>
How do you anons rule being “rested” in order to prepare spells? I’m starting to feel like my spellcasters should not be allowed to prepare new spells while they’re out adventuring - they need to be in a town or a stronghold or somewhere they can get properly rested, not just some shuteye on a bedroll in a swamp.
>>
>>93221843
Tent, campfire, bedroll, ration, water, sleep.
>>
>>93221843
This:
>>93221872
is this correct answer, but if you *houserule* that spell recovery can only be done in a safe place, I suspect you won't break anything. Never tried it in practice, though.
>>
>>93221843
I played the more restrictive way at first, but after a while I found it was just discouraging lengthy overland exploration, which is something I was interested in. So I eventually settled on:

"Preparation requires least four uninterrupted hours of rest immediately prior, and no fatigue levels from exhaustion or lack of sleep." Memorization time comes after that, on top.

This means you can still have a single nighttime encounter when doing overland adventuring without scuttling memorization, while still heavily discouraging attempts to rest in a dungeon: when you stack time for spell memorization on top of this, with dungeon exploration and its turn-by-turn tracking and multiple random encounter rolls they have about an 80% chance of being interrupted before five hours have passed.

So I get my guys wandering around the countryside, but not trying to set up shop in a dungeon. Of course, if you want different gameplay, build it differently. I just think it's more important to consider how you want your particular game to play out than necessarily how things "should" work.
>>
>>93221528
What do you mean? The whole shtick of one-page dungeons is trying to cram everything in and cutting everything they can to do so. You get this weird mix of overfull and undercooked all at the same time.

Got to admit: it's a trend I'm not sad to see having largely died off.
>>
How do you determine or generate the layout of a keep to be sieged or used as a lair (or both)? Walls, towers, features, potential weak points, etc.
I'm contemplating coming up with one of those "whip a bunch of dice at a sheet, each die's result/location is some kind of scale/feature/integrity" systems like you'd find for generating a village layout.
>>
>>93224398
I wonder if the dungeon generator from the dmg could be used here. Just use corridors as walls, rooms as towers and chambers as buildings. Traps could be just traps.
>>
>>93224398
Judges Guild have a product with tens of stronghold layouts. Fuck if I remember what it's called.
>>
How does /osrg generate dungeon treasure? When running games, I have a preference for randomly generating loot, and only on occasion do I prefer placing it. I get the impression that, according to the DMG at least, random treasure is mostly confined to lairs, not dungeons. Any good resources for this? The random dungeon generator in the DMG has this, but is very barebones. FOE?
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>>93225785
Just to get more information, what's the matter with the DMG (or B/X) tables made exactly for the purpose of placing random treasure in lairs? When you say barebones, do you mean there's not enough detail--just coin amounts? Because there's lots of "juice up your random results with specific luxury goods and gemstone types" supplements. Or something else?
>>
>>93225785
>>93225852
Lubngfungs actual dungeon mastering pdf explains
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>>93225852
>do you mean there's not enough detail
Yes, exactly. Looking for more expansive tables. Any recommendations for such supplements?
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>>93226140
The attached has proven popular. CDD 4 also has a good treasure section, the Forgotten Realms Adventure hardcover, while 2e, does have a good Treasure chapter. I know ACKS goes crazy on this somewhere but don't know the book. Lastly, there's Dragon #137 ("Treasures of the Wild") and #207 ("Trifling Treasures").
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>>93229691
>Dragon #137 ("Treasures of the Wild")
Highly recommend. It’s incredibly detailed with all manner of creatures and products (eggs, ivory, organs, etc). I think pelts are a bit undervalued (5gp for a tiger skin?) but it gives values for processed pieces as well so you can adjust easily.
>>
B/X question: how do you determine the morale of high-level adventuring parties?
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>>93230468
8
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>>93230555
Okay, and how did you determine it?
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>>93230468
Me, by troop type.
Chainmail has "Instability" checks when a unit takes casualties: I compare how I would class the monsters - light, heavy, armored - and use that to determine when to roll and what to roll against.
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>>93231462
You mean picrel? Why not +1 for elite? High-level NPC parties should at the very least get that, I'd already allow that bonus at first level.

(Also I'm not sure that's a good table to apply to begin with.)
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I need to become a good enough referee to run Arden Vul. I have to. As I am now I am far too weak.
In spite of doing GMing for years for other, shittier games and playstyles I'm completely unconfident in my ability to do Arden Vul justice. My current OSR experience is running Dolmenwood for almost a year now out of disconnected preview documents, and trying to corral players into shorter dungeons like Incandescent Grottoes, Hole in the Oak, etcetera. But ultimately failing. The players just prefer dicking around in safer areas. I'm growing pretty weary of it and want to move on to something less full of ffffffucking fairies and with less room to completely divest themselves of the long term consequences of their actions by going to the other side of the map. I like dungeons full of interactable traps, tricks, and factions. I like presenting my players with something shiny and making them figure out how to get it without exploding, and what to do with it.
I think long-term my plan is to eventually wrap up Dolmenwood hopefully within a month or two, whip out Stonehell, play that til everyone's bored, run Hot Springs Island in some NSR shit as a palate cleanser, and then go into Arden Vul. Should I stick with that and run Stonehell as "training?" Or should I just put my dick in the path of the car door and do Arden Vul like my dreams ask of me? It seems like you need a damned degree in old-school dungeon mastery to run without tripping over yourself.
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>>93231967
For one, you may have the wrong group, rather than the wrong GMing skillset: OSR play in general takes a specific kind of player, and long-term exploration of a dense but singular site is yet another filter on top of that.

But ultimately, there's no secret. Maybe watch the videos of those 3D6 Down the Line guys who are running this? The only way to get good at it is to do it, however.
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>>93231967
Arden Vul is much easier to run than Dolmenwood. Or rather it would be if it weren't written in the most retardedly user-unfriendly way ever.

I would personally stick with Stonehell not as "training" but as the superior dungeon from all points of view: Presentation, content, ease of use and internal coherence (Arden Vul's maps have severe vertical alignment contradictions and that irks me.), setting-neutrality.
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>>93232030
I've thought about that. They're definitely the type to get more attached to their characters than I'd expect when I straight up tell them life's cheap. But we've been going strong for a while and they're still playing the game I'm running, just in their own way, which I think is fine. I'd definitely prefer to get back underground though.
>>93232140
AV's user-unfriendliness is a major part of why I'm intimidated by running it. But it represents basically my ideal, besides some aesthetic bits. But at its core, it's an "archeology dungeon," which is what I want.
It's bighugefuckinggiant. It's full of traps, tricks, and secrets. Learning things about the dungeon's history opens avenues for interaction and reveals secrets and loot. I love that shit. Worldbuilding that isn't just masturbatory shit for the GM but is actionable and desirable information for the players. That's the stuff of my dreams.
As for setting neutrality, I've never really been that much of a fan of it as a selling point, honestly. I like things to have a voice or an aesthetic that's uniquely its own. I think that's a great thing, especially as what is essentially the entire campaign. If it were just a plug-and-play module, setting neutrality/genericness would be a desirable trait. But when it's the backbone of the world and the thing 99% of PC interactions are with, being its own thing is a huge plus to me.
Not to say Stonehell is without merit. But I mostly want to run it just because the layout and usability are great while still being a serviceable megadungeon, rather than it being Stonehell and offering SH things. I'm not even sure what those would be, besides "it's big, it's functional, and it plays nice at the table/is low prep."
The alignment mishaps of AV I think can just be handwaved by twisting unmapped staircases. But I haven't gone out of my way to look out for them. Mostly I'm fascinated by the history and interactivity with that history, and the sheer scope of the damn thing.
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>>93232648
You should listen to 3D6DTL as someone else suggested. They’ve been playing that dungeon for two years and they’ve barely scratched the surface of the deeper mysteries.
I’ve perused Arden Vul and my impression is that it is not so much that it is unfriendly, it’s just huge, dense, and needs good pre-reading by the DM. I’m not a fan of adventures on pdf but I managed to navigate AV not too badly with multiple copies open and a lot of the search function. It actually taught me some lessons on how to approach other modules I’ve wrestled with like ASE and Castle of the Mad Archmage.
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>>93233091
>it’s just huge, dense, and needs good pre-reading by the DM

God yes. There's something to be said for a module that skips the OSE trend of absolute textual minimalism: it's kind of refreshing. But overall I'd say they definitely could have learned some lessons in organization of material and cutting things down from modern OSR stuff, even if I'm glad they didn't go all the way. I remember reviewing it towards a possible run and continually thinking "wait, why is this here, man this should be over there" and so on.

I'm still tempted to try it, though...
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>>93234158
>they definitely could have learned some lessons in organization of material
I've tried commenting something along those lines (politely and measuredly) on the Arden Vul facebook group, and as a result the author threw a fit and the whole group revolted against me. The author doesn't come across as someone who is willing to take feedback. Much like Greg Gillespie from this POV.
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>>93234176
Given how both are university professors in humanities, this is simultaneously expected and depressing.
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>damage ranges listed as e.g. 3-18, 2-8, etc
just because it's not hard to convert doesn't mean it isn't objectively worse
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>>93234176
Well that's depressing. There's so much material and I can't imagine the cost to have done it, let alone the extra cost needed to run it by a good editor on top and then the further time needed to make the changes, versus the amount they could have expected to make back on their investment. I would think actually getting people going over it who want to help make it better is a dream, a golden opportunity, rather than a threat to the work.
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>>93234212
Okay?
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>>93220615
I usually see it as a form of advantage, where thief rolls the percentile, then still rolls the regular d6 if they fail.
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>>93234212
2-16 got me recently for some reason. It's not a big difference but writing the formula is more usable, which is an always important quality for reference material.
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>>93234385
The manuals were written in a time when people were still able to do arithmetics mentally without difficulty. They were usable by boomers and genxers, but it seems they are not as usable anymore by some millennials and zoomers.
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>>93234496
1. You're misusing the word "arithmetics." It's not normally plural like mathematics.
2. Figuring out what dice formulae are represented by a number range isn't arithmetic, it's algebra. I.e. 3-12 (3x=12 where x is the die size).
3. Mathematics scores among students have been on a upward trend since the 70s, with the only drop occurring when COVID happened.
4. I would assume ranges are usable by everyone. What I mean is that they're less efficient. No matter how blindingly fast you can convert a range into dice, it's still a millisecond wouldn't be taken if it was written in the form you're more likely to want it and use.
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>>93234496
>>93234609
lol someone call the burn ward
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>>93234496
Back in the day less people were into rpgs than these days. Ttrpgs were a NERD hobby for a reason. Most of the playerbase were autistic teens who were into math already.
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>>93234176
>tried commenting something and people flipped out
Most """OSR"""" content I see gets this reaction. Either dismissive or have a hostile reaction to anything posted that isn't praise or a critique by someone higher in the food chain. "Creators" and online players are too touchy about their videos, house rules, or products while claiming they do it for fun or community. The worst excuse I saw was that they did it because it's cathartic.
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>>93200592
A few /osrg/ posters got together to make a newsletter, and I wrote my process for city campaigns. lot of other good stuff here too
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>>93231219
Its higher than average.
If you want some variation roll an additional D6.
>1, morale failure bad times 6
>2, hard times, 7
>3-4, better than average but that's normal for being a high level party
>5, doing good, 9
>6, Kings of the world, 10
But that's already a bit too granular and has the same distribution of -1 and -2 so you might want something on a 2d6.
How many high level parties are you rolling up? Could do average of 8, roll 1D6, deviate by -1 on 1, +1 on 2 and it would likely cover it.
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Would anyone mind explaining how % in lair works in AD&D 1e? If I am rolling a random encounter, does the % mean that I should roll a percentile to determine if the PCs encountered a lair instead? Or am I populating a lair on a hex, and if the PCs randomly encounter say brigands, the number of brigands is reduced by however many are in their lair? I'm not certain if there is an explanation couched somewhere in the DMG, so please lecture me like I'm a moron if I'm missing the obvious...
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>>93231580
Nope - this one.

A minion group will test morale when they take casualties sufficient to reach the IDEC - potentially fleeing at two occasions. A leveled NPC character will test morale when it loses HP proportional to that same number.

Nothing stopping a ref from adding or subtracting before the roll based on equipment, "elite" status, or other situations: and it doesn't necessarily mean the leveled character is actively fleeing - maybe a failed morale role is them deciding the risk / reward isn't working and they need to fall back and try another approach. Chainmail IDEC is roll over - and as I remember, OSR morale is roll under: so the numbers would need to be converted - but the option is there.

Interestingly, per your pic, Chainmail Vikings are "heavy infantry".
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>>93234385
The ones that make me think twice are the ones with modifiers lol

Like, 3-30 is easy: just divide the upper by the lower and you have your die type to roll - but stuff like 3-13: while obvious *in retrospect*, it always takes a split second longer to process.
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>>93236095
it's at the front of the monster manual
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>>93232648
Caverns of Thracia has a similar archeological vibe, is a classic for a reason, and is a much shorter read in comparison to Arden Vul. It isn't as fuckhueg but you'll still get a ton of game out of it's 5 levels.
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>>93236145
Ohh, I see. Thank you. I'm still new to this and I'm not used to the hodge podge organization of rules. Didn't even think to check the MMs...
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>>93234609
>It's not normally plural like mathematics.
1. Mathematics is singular, not plural.
2. Both arithmetic and arithmetics exist, are in use, and are correct.
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>>93234609
>Figuring out what dice formulae are represented by a number range isn't arithmetic, it's algebra. I.e. 3-12 (3x=12 where x is the die size).
12/3 is not algebra, Willis. Even ranges with addition such as 4-14 are not solved using algebra, but algorithmically: Since 14/4 is not acceptable, then try (2-12)+1 and finally (2-12)+2. So it is still arithmetic with a couple extra algorithmical steps.
>>
How much ''theater'' do you put in OSR?
I feel as the DM I don't really do any world building other than describing the dungeons which are... just dungeony.
>>
Does anyone else think it's a load that someone just copied B/X base rules, called it OSE, and is making money of it?
It just seems weird.
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>>93236269
NTA, try not to skip any pages. Vital information is explained often "swiftly" and with not much presentation in Gygax's works, but his experience and advice is golden and worth it.
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>>93237633
Why don't you do it too since it's that easy?
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>>93237746
I mean, anyone could.
It was "B/X Essentials" (still free and still on his open Google Drive) before he just slapped ''OSE'' on it.
What's really funny is when printed out ''B/X Essentials'' was way bigger than the B/X omnibus that was put together lol.
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>>93238034
>I mean, anyone could.
Sure, kiddo.
>>
Been gone a while...

Anyone have a valid OSR Discord invite? The one in the pastebin is dead. The cool Discord, not that one with the raging they/them soldiers.

Also, what's with this other TODD thread...?
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>>93238824
I think it's funny people believe this.
I made the B/X thread after seeing someone make a ADND thread. The Holmes guy came after.
I'm also not a janitor, but believe what you want, I guess.
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>>93238872
I think its funny you can't read and/or are full of shit.
>Welcome to TODD! This thread is for OPEN discussion of TSR-era Dungeons & Dragons (OD&D, Basic D&D, and AD&D including 2e) and related games, such as retroclones and OSR-adjacent games (OSE, BFRPG, S&W, LotFP, DCC, C&C, etc.).
Pic related is what they get up to though.
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>>93236329
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arithmetics
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>>93236095
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>>93237633
>Does anyone else think it's a load
It seems like fairly standard publishing practice to make money on hype easy to sell products and hopefully other more interesting smaller projects get made with that money. The various adventures they've published could perhaps have made it on their own but some wouldn't have and if reprinting reference manuals for rubes makes it easier for other people to publish modules I consider it an overall win.
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>>93240182
I heard that too. Makes sense.

I don't think it was the mod that was fucking with this board for so long that made all the splits, since what we were asking for for years was for people to make a separate thread or otherwise go elsewhere, and all our efforts to get that done were shut down. Doesn't make much sense to go to the point of deleting generals to prevent people from splitting off and then suddenly encouraging it (unless they finally realized that after two years of trying to force it here that it wasn't going to happen).

Regardless of why it happened, it's something most people here have wanted for a long time and the instantly better posting environment has shown that it was worth it. I'll happily take a slower general if it means that the schizo 2e anon is someone else's problem: a lot of the extra posts were just the guy screaming.

>>93238713
https://discord.gg/evhaXjw7md
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>>93240182
>this post remains
>post outing 2nd jannie get deleted
lol
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>>93237575
Not sure what you mean yet. Do you have an example of a room key you've used and what its general location in a dungeon was? Or the entrance to the place. A lot of general tone can be set in the first few rooms and after that I tend to repeat the overall architectural style of the dungeon during session recaps.
Some of the DMs go more into the boardgame style where empty rooms can be just that but I tend towards rolling a list of random items and stuff from whatever table I have handy. CC's Tricks, Empty Rooms & Basic Trap Design has a good base to use as inspiration I find.
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>>93241627
>deleted
You mean highlighted in red?
>>
Say what you want but I like urgoblins. Hobgoblins that have the regeneration ability of trolls. I've always wanted to have lower level trolls in my games and these guys are brilliant for that.
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>>93242661
Thouls you mean?
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>>93242949
Oh yeah thats the official name. Great.
>>
I'm a totally green GM, so forgive me if the question is obvious.
How do you deal with crunching the numbers for a bigger fight between groups of non-PC characters?
Next game my players will probably trigger a little goblin uprising against their bigger goblin opressors/slave drivers. And probably throw a few frenzied wolves into the mix. It will be a fight between a group of about three dozens trash mobs against about ten elites taken unaware, so quite a skrimish.
I don't want to just make an arbitrary decision like "this side wins because I said so", I also don't want to have us sit there for an hour while I austistically play the fight out using normal rules.
Are there any rules for quickly resolving an event like that in the theater of mind, without the need for whipping out a set of minis and a copy of Chainmail from my ass?
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>>93243177
10 to 1 units. Proceed as normal
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>>93243177
You could use a very simplified version of Chainmail (plenty of them out there on the net), use a roll of X-in-6 or X%-on-100 means side A wins if you want something faster than light (just take advantages and circumstances into account when deciding the odds), or play a small part of the fight and the side that wins wins the whole thing, that single small fight was the deciding factor.
You could even use other game mechanics like Tunnels and Trolls for it if you don't mind. It's just a bunch of d6 pool rolls.
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>>93243177
War machine
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>>93242641
Good save astria#3455
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Whoever was looking for the new LotFp shit they just uploaded to Rchive
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Somehow kino returned
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>>93244900
tf is this
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What comes after "Domain level play"? What do you call the next level of play?
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>>93244956
Khosura
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>>93235837
>Pizzaready

That guy's still around? I figured he'd have the decency to kill himself by now. Fucking faggot.
>>
>>93244988
yall still seething about a discord, huh. no wonder this thread keeps splintering, you gay retards just love being catty little bitches instead of talking and playing games.
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>>93244965
Domain play is adversarial, so there is no end to id, sooner or later every character will lose or die. But if you are a storyfag, there's always Picrel.
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>>93244900
Any good?
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>>93245037
Can't say for sure since it was only just released, but melan's stuff is usually great. My understanding is that this is a cleaned up and expanded version of a dungeon published originally in Fight On!, so you could check those to get an idea.
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>>93239212
>Being this much of a prancing homo.
Yeah and how about including my post, the one he was replying to to show the other side of the discussion?
Or would that be a bit inconvenient for going 'Look at these prancing lalahomos'?
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>>93245698
Take the stiff cocks out of your mouth before posting.
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>>93245165
Is it written by Melan? Or by someone else for EMDT?

I agree Melan is great, but not everything he does is. I absolutely love Castle Xyntillan but I have found his main system to be a bit meh, what's it called, the Helvéczia one. I'll certainly check it out, is it out already?
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>>93245809
It's out but the digital version is on a delay as usual.
https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/2024/07/modulezine-khosura-king-of-wastelands.html
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>>93199265
Im not particularly OSR focused, But I really like looking through old dungeon magazines and old dragon magazines. Are there any particular adventuresm You have run from these old publications?

I really love them cause they usually contain scenarios that are just large enough to be practicable and actually have good workable material, but just small enough that it doesnt feel like a slog and you can scan a few to see what's tickling your fancy. One of the few game sessions I ran was using a nice small publication from dungeon magazine #12 based around a haunted lighthouse and zombie pirates.
>>
>>93246178
I made a couple of compilations along these lines a while back:

https://tinyurl<dot>com/2p8dx6nj
https://tinyurl<dot>com/3np457sb
>>
Probably going to hit 3rd level on my first B/X magic user today, what are your favourite second level spells? Any creative uses you've come up with?
>>
>>93243177
couldnt you have the players play it out against each other? just as a little fun aside, assuming they dont have a vested interest in one side winning of course
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>>93244900
is it ruined by including shitty AI "art" like well of frogs?
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>>93246893
Knock
Invisibility
Web
Can't go wrong
>>
>>93247026
how would that ruin it? i dont look at modules for artistic expression, its for the fundamentals of the design. art in d&d products is fundamentally just little doodles to fill up blank space to aid with formatting pages to make sections change over on whole pages
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>>93246893
Invisibility, Invisibility, and Invisibility.

>>93247026
Could be worse. Could be ruined by human-made artpunk.
>>
the king is back

https://www.necropraxis.com/2024/06/21/xp-potential-as-inverse-encumbrance/


>>93199265
TQ: One random encounter i put to my players was a nixie being attacked by a skeleton crocodile. The players soaked their weapons in holy water (spending it) just to find out that the nixie was just pretending to be attacked playing with the mouth of a normal, dead crocodile; laughed and said "thanks for rescuing me" as she went into the depths. I improvised all of it but i am proud because it suits the necessity of the nixies to find a strong figthter to enslave, and made the players hate them without resorting to spells or combat
>>
>>93247878
inshallah may your life be as worthless as you perceive art to be
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>>93199265
I don't like it here. I prefer TODD.
I'm out.
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>>93244900
Instantly ordered, like pretty much any of Melan's stuff. Thanks for the heads up.
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>>93249681
Not an airport, you don't have to announce your departure.
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>>93249681
You came here from there to post this.
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>>93249681
Never posted here in /osrg/, just lurked here now and then but i have to say this now: i added /todd/ in my filter list alongside /2eg/ and not out of dislikes for their ideas per se but because it's getting extremely tiresome to see these knee jerk reaction threads (i had also to add some 5e keywords because of that troll hunter shizo retard spergouts). So congratulations retards, you made me potentially more invested in this general.
>>
Ok my dudes, so I want to run some little dungeon for a group of my normie friends who have never played any RPGs. I personally have zero experience with running OSR as well.
Being Polish, basically the only systems that were used over here back when I was still playing almost two decades ago were Warhammer, Vampire, and Cyberpunk. Now that I'm getting back into the hobby, I want to experience some of that classic DnD for myself.

However, as I got to preparing for the campaign, I have a severe case of choice paralysis. There are thousands of these retroclones and hacks. Currently I'm pondering between using OSE/S&W/Basic Fantasy/LL, but I don't understand what the actual differences between them there are, if any.
Then I also read about Blackhack and Knave and Cairn, and they seem to sound cool as well. But do they give what you would call an 'authentic" OSR experience, or are they in their little separate category?

Could you very briefly explain the difference between these retroclones, is there a difference between how they play and the play styles they facilitate? Does it even fucking matter, or can I just pick one at random and have pretty much the same experience, no matter which?

And what about Knave/Cairn/Blackhack? Are they viable games on their own, or just little novelty memes?

I don't want to overwhelm the normies with something too crunchy like Worlds Without Number right from the bat, but I also don't want them to feel bored with a game that's too simplistic
>>
>>93250395
>But do they give what you would call an 'authentic" OSR experience, or are they in their little separate category?
Very much a separate thing.
S&W is good for starting out. It's easy to understand and unlike OSE it actually explains how to play. When it comes to running published modules, they're practically interchangeable.
>>
>>93250395
It doesn't really matter. You should look at a timeline of early D&D editions and read up a very basic level what the differences are between the original little brown books (0th edition), holmes (not common), Basic/Expert aka BX, and 1/2e AD&D. You don't need to learn any of them - you just want to be able to get to the point you can look at retroclones and go "ah, that's a BX based system" and start to be able to figure out what is similar to what other sort of thing. That will make the set of possibilities less overwhelming.

Your friends don't care what system you use. They probably just want to hang out and have a good time. I'm going to recommend Knave 2e for you, and other people might justifiably disagree with that, so let me explain why.

I've been DMing a group with LotFP + house rules for about a year of very sporadic play (we average less than once a month). The urge to find the perfect system or to add houserules is strong, but I've learned it's often not worth it. My players have trouble remembering the rules. More to the point, I've sometimes had trouble juggling all the rules in my head. The problem with that is that it becomes hard to think whilst DMing. This is a skill that you get a bit better at gradually but it's definitely hardest at the start.

A lot of the OSR vibes are about presenting a consistent world to your players, and letting your players attempt to beat challenges using clever play. To do that, you need enough space in your head to imagine the world vividly enough that you can describe it to your players in enough detail that they can start to make interesting decisions. Knave is really simple, and pretty easy to look stuff up in on the fly, so that leaves space in your head to do the actual GMing.

But you're gonna be worried you're not getting the authentic experience, which is fair. So supplement this recommendation with: (continued in next post)
>>
>>93250395
>>93250495

- Getting hold of the Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert rules. OSE is just a very clean B/X reference book with stuff rearranged to be easier to look up. The Moldvay Basic rules have an example of play at the end. Read through the basic rules once, but don't expect to absorb everything on the first pass.

- Watch the Questing Beast/Ben Milton's session he ran for some kids using OSE. He takes them through the Winter's Daughter adventure. Helpfully, the captions to that video don't correspond to the audio - instead, he's written down what he was thinking as a DM throughout the game. One of the biggest thing's you'll have to get used to is thinking in terms of dungeon turns of, ostensibly, 10 minutes long, although in practice you'll feel that you're making the characters feel really slow to do anything by calling for so many turns. This is fine.

- Get a hold of B1, In Search of the Unknown. This is the "little dungeon" that you should run. It's a module explicitly designed to teach you how to DM, and to teach new players how to play. For example, old modules often had poisoned needles that would prick you when you tried to open boxes, that could kill your character if you failed a saving throw. This module has a similar trap, but it only does 1 damage and turns the player's hand blue. The dungeon map is given to you, but you have to use the basic rules to stock it with monsters and treasure.

- Make some notes about what you've learned, then go do something else for a few days.

- Come back and reread the basic rules. If you're wanting to run B1 with Knave, think about
- - How traps work in Basic vs how you're going to run them
- - How saving throws for characters worked in basic (you can find the table on page 26) vs how you're going to run them
>>
>>93250158
As the guy who made the first official /todd/ thread, I can promise you it wasn't a knee-jerk thing from my on my end. Maybe the different edition threads that preceded it were (I wasn't really paying attention to the sequence of events that led to their creation), but I liked the comparative freedom to discuss things in the B/X thread without the instant hostile FOE accusations and had been unhappy with /osrg/ for a good while. I used to be a heavy poster to /osrg/, but because of how it's changed, I'd lost interest to the point where I hardly ever posted anymore, and would go for extended periods of time without checking up on it. I'm really only here now because I'm curious what the thread looks like with /todd/ out there (and whether it'd be more peaceful with less arguing over what belongs here since folks who want a broader range of acceptable conversation have somewhere to fuck off to). With all of that said, if you're happy here and don't like the structure or vibe of /todd/ for whatever reason, more power to you. While the elimination of conflict isn't realistically attainable, hopefully the different approaches of /osrg/ and /todd/ will allow people to find a thread they're basically happy with, and at least cut down on the bickering.
>>
>>93250158
>>93250566
Mind you, I wasn't the poster you were responding to and don't know that it's particularly helpful to make a parting shot when leaving /osrg/. I'd prefer people quit stirring up trouble in both threads. A certain amount of grumbling about /todd/ is understandable here, and vice versa in the /todd/ thread, but I'd rather we don't troll each other's threads.
>>
>>93250563
- - Whether you want to have one of your players have to map the dungeon on a real piece of paper
- - What the different creature stats are - how do you convert from the old descending armour class to the system you're going to use? How do you know what a monster's bonus to hit is? If you desperately want a monster manual type book I recommend The Monster Overhaul, but you really don't need one at this stage.
- - What's morale? When do you roll it?
- - What's the reaction roll?

- That's a lot of info to absorb at once. Take notes, chill for a few days again.

- When you think you're ready to play, roll up some premade characters for your friends so that they can start playing by just grabbing a sheet of paper.

- Write reminders to yourself to track lighting, check reaction and morale rolls, and describe the fictional world with like 3 out of 5 senses so the players have vivid information to make sensible decisions with. You're not trying to trick them into losing, so you mostly don't need to worry about giving too much information. It's a much worse problem to give too little, so don't censor yourself. Let the players know stuff.

- Reread B1 and make sure you can imagine it all.

- Run the game :)


Afterwards, you can ask the players how they thought it went. People meme on "safety" tools like the "X card", but really those sorts of things are just communication tools, reminders that the game is there for the enjoyment of the people playing it, and you can stop and change stuff around if it's going to make things more fun. I'm not saying you need to use safety tools, just to remember that you don't need to be beholden to the rules like a straight jacket, and you can always ask your players, outside of your role as a DM, if there's anything that would make the game more fun for them. Doing that is more important than playing whatever you think the "authentic" OSR way is.
>>
>>93250622

If you present a vivid world that your players can interact with without overloading their mind with rules, they'll have fun.

Outside of basic tribal politics, the reason people like Prince of Nothing meme on rules light systems is because people talk about them as if they're completely equivalent to something like AD&D. They're not - a more rules heavy OSR ruleset like AD&D or ACKS provides more ways that players can be skillful and play well, along with other tools for the DM that helps when you're running a game that lasts a long time. But those aren't problems you have at the moment. You just need to care about your friends having fun. If you've made a habit of talking about the game at the meta-level, as I mentioned before, then "do you think we should move to a more complicated system" is one of those conversations you can have later as a group. For now, simple is fine.
>>
>>93250495
Ain't you a cute lil' puppy
>I recommend Knave
Oh no
It's retarded
>>
>>93250395
Read this PDF
>>93199292
>>
>>93250495
>>93250563
>>93250622
>>93250651
Thanks for the lengthy response. I'll follow your suggestions, in fact I already got the original B/X sets, so I'll read through them first. I also have a pdf with reorganized ODnD rules, so I'll skim through that one as well.

My ADHD ass already went to planning a big sandbox campaign after I read the Worlds Without Number book and saw all the GM tools it offers. But now I realized that I got way ahead of myself there, especially since I don't even know if I'll actually find a group willing to dedicate themselves to a longer sandbox hexcrawl.

Good thing is that I have about 10 people who expressed interest in playing, so I'll just invite two or three groups separately, and let them know we're basically playing tutorial one shot adventures. That way, I'll try out the B/X, Knave, and S&W as >>93250437 suggested, and decide for myself what I like best.


As a follow-up question, does Knave require much conversion if I wanted to play B/X modules with it? I got myself The Hole in the Oak and The Incandescent Grottoes from Necrotic Gnome and really liked what I saw when I skimmed them, so I'd be interested in running that shit as well.
>>
>>93250748
Appreciated
>>
>>93250789
Knave was explicitly designed as a light ruleset to play modules with minimal conversion, but it is not B/X. For example, if you were to lose ability score points, that has a different impact depending on what system you're playing, because the ability scores are represented differently. It's a game without classes or thief skills. It's not /the same/.

If you're already looking at both B/X and OD&D/S&W, at a certain point it will just become easier to run B/X. If you look at why I recommended Knave, it was to reduce the cognitive load on your first few sessions because it is fast to become familiar with. Trying to learn 3 different systems at once and run them for 3 different games back to back... that's the exact opposite. Expect to completely fry your brain trying to keep which game is which straight. Stuff that seems easy to think about now will become harder when you're actually DMing. That's just what stress does to a human brain.

Roll a d3 to randomly pick one of those systems (and then learn it thoroughly) if you really can't stop your indecision after skimming your options, but please do not try and learn and then run 3 somewhat similar rulesets at once.

The boring default answer of "just run B/X" is not a bad answer. It is the boring default answer for a reason.
>>
>>93250789
>does Knave require much conversion if I wanted to play B/X modules with it?
Knave is a something you might use to play one-shots with children who are either too young or too developmentally delayed to play B/X. It doesn't support campaign play, nor does it really support adults wanting to play an RPG, let alone (O/A/BX/BECMI) D&D.

I doubt that the Anon who recommended Knave and Ben Miltard was posting in good faith.
>>
Hi all. OK so I am looking at getting back into gaming after a couple decades break. Don't really care for 5e or PF2 etc etc.....remember old school better but like the idea of the "Adventure Paths"

Are there any good "new" old school adventure paths out there that aren't a megadungeon? If so what are your recommendations? Thanks!!!
>>
>>93250922
What's an adventure path? Not trying to be a dick, I've never heard the expression before.

The OP contains a list of recommended starter modules.

The third post contains a "how to get started with OSR" PDF.
>>
>>93250922
>Don't really care for 5e or PF2
>like the idea of the "Adventure Paths"
They're the same thing.
Find the article "just three hexes"
Make a non-mega dungeons,
a ruin and a bandit camp lair
>>
>>93250915
I forgot to mention it in the original post, but I just finished playing in a 6 months long weekly Cities Without Number campaign. That's what gave me the original urge to run my own game.

So I am pretty familiar with the general B/X chassis ruleset. At least from a player's side, I understand it's another animal from the GMs side.

And when I said back to back, I meant "scheduling with people over 30" back to back, so a couple of weeks between each game. I'm just autistically interested in whether there's any tangible difference between the way these clones play.

It won't matter that much if I fumble some minor rules between those one-shots, I'm positive my players won't read a single paragraph from any of the systems anyways.

>>93250920
>Knave is a something you might use to play one-shots with children who are either too young or too developmentally delayed to play B/X

You don't know some of my friends. But yeah, I'll use it for a one shot if anything, as I said.

Won't hurt to have a system in my sleeve that I could just whip out and have a one-shot game with a bunch of random people during a hangout as an alternative to playing cards or a board game

If I do find a group for a longer campaign, I'll probably either stick to one retroclone or another, or just switch to Worlds Without Number should the players want a more new school system that gives them more mechanical customization for the characters.
I really liked the without Numbers system as a player, and would probably just start with it from the beginning. But I understand it would be too much to throw on total RPG nobs with its more complicated character creation process
>>
>>93250938
Think DL1-16.
>>
>>93248440
>the king
You mean the guy who made the 'loaded encounter table'
because keeping track of torches was hard?
>skims wordswordswords post
>seems to want to add rules about encumbrance and xp as one mechanic so it can do what it already does
King of bad ideas maybe.
>>
>>93250566
You've already had your oft touted purity spiral in the first thread. Your
>openesss
is a sham, you repeat the same mistakes but faster. You're already arguing about feats.
Good job toddler. Fuck off.
>>
>>93250588
>and don't know that it's particularly helpful
Its shit like this that is why you're a disingenuous shitheel. That you can't even say what you actually think and have to pad everything so it seems like you're being nice is transparent and insipid. /todd/ is already into tone policing like the other tipofthehat nerds. You're actively making this place more like every other bland aggregator on the internet. Fuck you.
Its not helpful. It wasn't meant to be though. Not everyone has to be helpful all the time or act like they're better than everyone else. Get fucked.
>>
>>93250922
Bone Hilt Sword by Usherwood Publishing - too railroady for me but the actual sites are good
Castle of the Silver Prince by Anthony Huso - haven't read but it's a campaign by a good author

Classic module series you can get link together:
B10 Nights Dark Terror - honestly a full low level campaign in this single module.
T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil - daunting to run but extremely rewarding if you're willing to put in the effort
X4,X5,X10 Desert Nomads series - railroady but flavorful and ends with a huge hex and chit wargame
A1-4 Slavers series - tournament modules with scoring included
WG4 Tharizdun and S4 Tsojcanth are connected. Personally my favorite modules of all time
G1-3 Giants & D1-3 Drow These are all higher level but form a single series. The series finishes in Q1 Demonweb pits but it's a very mid module to end the best series of modules ever. Someone recently wrote their own finale, The House of Pestilence, that is supposed to be good. I haven't read it myself yet

Tournament style play is still OSR, so long as you make it about player skill and don't railroad and let the dice fall where they may!
>>
>>93250920
I like maze rats tables. The rules are shit and non-existent, but the tables are a good resource.
>>
>>93248440
He's not a king he's a halfwit.
The more encumbered you are the less treasure you can take out of the dungeon.
What if your porter hireling is naked when you leave town?
>>
>>93252277
i admit i dont understand the last post but he is still the best blog in this matters in my humble opinion.
>>
>>93252316
>he is still the best blog in this matters in my humble opinion.
There's:
Guccifuligincloak blogspot,
deltas d&d hotspot,
Beyond the Black Gate,
Monsters and Manuals,
beyond fomalhaut,
grognardia,
all dead generations,
hack slash master,
coins and scrolls
prince of nothing,
Goblin Punch,
Alexandrian,
I'd even take Jeffro over this guys hazard dice drivel.

necropraxis is a peddler of nusr swill
>>
>>93252316
idk I find a lot of his stuff great, but not for OSR
like his Hazard System. Great stuff, but some of it is not OSR at all. Like how torches are dealt with
it works with other types of ttrpgs. If I'm using a mapless dungeon it's a good tool. But for OSR it goes against some of it's basic principles
>>
>>93250395
>Cairn, Knave, Blackhack
NO.
If you need something even lighter and still old-school, try DragonQuest (an introductory game by TSR, convertible to proper D&D)

Just drop (or don't) the board and use it as a "rules-lite" D&D.
https://pdfcoffee.com/dragonquest-boardgame-pdf-free.html

Then, when you think that they get the gist, switch to basic or advanced d&d.
>>
>>93253210
>DragonQuest
>it's not about dragons questing for treasures, cattle and princesses to add to their hoard
>>
>>93252418
I'm sad I'm not on this list.
>>
>>93253358
coins and scrolls
Goblin Punch,
St Aug

Here is a special list for you to be on.
>>
>>93251910
>X4,X5,X10 Desert Nomads series
For years, I've been dying to run this as a campaign with Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor shoehorned in somewhere.
>>
>>93253358
whats a "St Aug !8dQHgZINuc"?
>>
>>93253516
Thank you
:-)
>>
>>93253752
An age has come to a close - I will diminish, and go into the West... (I write Clericswearringmail.blogspot.com and use to name post. :-) )

Sorry for the double post. It won't let me delete the top one to combine the responses.
>>
>>93253808
Seems like you've done some high quality OSR blogging, you're welcome as a late addition to the better than necrophagist list.

I do wish you wouldn't tripfag.
>>
>>93253968
Who cares about tripfagging when he used an emoji of all things.
>>
>>93253968
I have been anon-posting lately after a 4chan sabbatical. Name or no name has been on and off, as some folks liked me and wanted me to keep it - while others were more concerned with, as I assume you are, with the sanctity of anonymity.

The trip was necessary because someone got *really* butthurt about it and started impersonating. Was a wild time.
>>
>>93254267
lol - twice, actually!
And from mobile!



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