Class overviews in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
>>93202863Modern D&D is so embarrassing.
No one can read or communicate anymore which is why they make good slaves.
Couldn't have posted this in any of the million other nu-D&D threads that are up. No, just had to make a new one.
>>93202889Yep, you're the only smart person left. It's just like Idiocracy!
>>93203052The joke is he said it in a funny voice.
>>93202863Grim.
>>93202863>paladin>strength and charismaBut dex paladins are superior. Why give bad advice to noobs?
>Yes hello my name is Grandmaster Ling Fang, I like unarmed combat and long walks by the rice fields where we beat new recruits into submission
That's stupid. Barbarians aren't about battle. They're about physicality and asserting your will upon the world through the strength of your body and the quickness of your wits. Did these people even read Conan?
>>93204093>Did these people even read ConanYou think the faggots writing modern D&D have ever read anything that wasn't on TikTok?
>>93204117You make a good, but sad, point.I think everyone should read Conan. It's requires reading for any of the games I run. Well, highly recommended reading. I can barely get them to read the rulebook these days...
>>93204093There's an Ed Greenwood quote where he talks about meeting a new writer who was talking about subverting some classic fantasy tropes.After reading some of their ideas, Ed asked if this writer was referencing a particular author's works with some of the writing.The new writer didn't know him.So Ed recommended reading this author's works as he was also subverting the works of such and such older authors and seeing how other authors did it might encourage this writer to expand their ideas more.The new writer didn't know the older authors either.So Ed asked the new writer what did he know?Turns out the new writer had almost 0 familiarity with any of the "classic fantasy" stories that they were trying to subvert, they were only familiar with their ideas from memes and cultural osmosis.Ed then talked about how he finds it baffling that people try to write subversions, which require knowing everything about the thing being subverted and truly understanding it, without even having a foundation for what they're allegedly subverting.
>>93202863>Warlock High>Wizard AverageI feel like I'm taking crazy pills
>>93202889This is actually a scam product, anon.
>>93204206Wizard is easy the way ‘modern audiences’ play them. Le fireball lol so wacky roll many dice
>>93204183I agree with this but also isn't Greenwood a weirdo coomer?
>>93204240On the spectrum between GRRM and Sanderson I would say Greenwood is pretty much in the middle.
>>93203059!
>>93204240Yes, and the classics of fantasy he was talking about were by John Norman.
So intelligence is still the universal dump stat I guess?
>>93204232I don't know what the scam is - I use AI to dumb down text for my purposes already.
>>93202863>barbarian>likes... BattleOkay fair enough>bard >likes... performing >you will probably never have to roll a performance roll ever, much more emphasis on being a socialite and a caster >paladin>likes... defense>Biggest damage burst class in the game, doesn't really have features that prioritize defense>range>likes... survivalWhat does that even fucking mean? You want to roll the survival skill and thats fucking it? Your entire class can be summed up by something that rogue or bard can probably do just as good if not better than you at no real cost?
>>93204310As much as i hate when people do this performance is an implementation issue. Deception is about concealing information while performance is about presenting yourself as something you're not. Roughly half your deception rolls become performance rolls
>>93202863if this isn't fake post the full pdf
>>93204093Barbarians have to be stupid because depicting an intelligent blonde Viking who believes in the strength of his blood and ancestors would toss your commercial safe space right out the window.
>>93202863Do we know all the subclasses yet?
>>93202863>Sorcerer>Likes:Power
>>93204447we call that a fighter, if that belief has a foundation, it's a paladin
>>93202863Barbarian is harder to play than Rogue?What is the difference between battle and weapons? What the fuck "likes" even means? How can you like "survival"?
>>93204575It's just vibes man
>>93202889A whole age of Emily Wilsons. Horrifying
>>93202863>monk>high complexityI feel I'm all out of anime girls with question marks over their heads for this bullshit. What strand of ancient Nubian kush got smuggled into the hashbro working space that they think cleric and wizard are easier to play than monk.
>>93203963Are they better in 2024? I don't know what the optimization meta is yet, but strength paladins are absolutely better in 5e, since they get railroaded into melee anyway.
>>93204206I want to say that wizards are average complexity because they're prepared casters, and that means you get more leeway when it comes to choosing spells, whereas a bard, sorcerer, or warlock can easily be fucked by an inexperienced player choosing bad spells.I want to say that, but then why are druids high complexity?
>>93202863>didn't take the opportunity to make Warlocks into INT casters
>>93202863where is this from? never seen this elsewhere, so could just be bait
>>93202863>Barbarian>Likes... BattleAs opposed to the other classes in the game about fighting monsters...?lol is this even real OP, or did you make it in GMbinder in 5 minutes?
>>93204240Yes, he is one of us.
>>93202863Bait used to be believable
>>93205746>>93205772>>93205870https://www.enworld.org/media/1718730627120-png.145641/
A 5e thread died for this.
>>93202889Some gold-plated chains would make a nice retirement gift for a very, very good slave.
>>93202863>warlockthats what gets me the mostthat fucking classits literally just sorcerer but even less effort and even more edgey
>>93206080>A 5e thread died for this.Good
>>93204206Eldritch invocations basically let you create your own subclass. Also, wizards can prepare spells and if they pick the "wrong" spells when leveling up they can just buy scrolls to learn new spells, they're much more forgiving and, aside from spell selection, have little in the way of customization.
>>93206066Lmao>Cleric>likes...gods
>>93205568Dex paladins are better in 5e. Get a rapier and profit. Dex is a way better attribute to invest into than Strength
>>93206066
>>93206066Now hold on>"Serves as your avatar in the D&D multiverse">multiverse
>>93205746Good. Warlocks SHOULD be fucking different from wizards.
>>93206748Warlocks are already different from wizards.Would you ever say that warlocks, sorcerers, bards, and paladins are all the same?
>>93206792Why the fuck would warlocks be int based anyway? Their whole shtick is they made a deal with the devil for their power, not studied for it. It takes charisma to make such a deal.
>>93206066The caption says Sheila is there but I don't see .... oh I get it. Ha.
>>93206066They killed and ate Eric.
>>93206872>Why the fuck would warlocks be int based anyway? They study the occult
>>93205568>strength paladins are absolutely better in 5e, since they get railroaded into melee anyway.See, that's the trap. Assuming Dexterity is ranged and Strength is melee. No. Dexterity is melee and ranged and a better save and better initiative and equivalent damage with dueling style.
>>93206987>equivalent damage with dueling styleNot if you account for GWM and PAM.Which you really should because those feats are so good that they feel borderline mandatory.There is no melee dex equivalent that gives power attack.
>>93206973>>93206872Imo it makes sense to be Cha if they’re based on aleister Crowley, charismatic cult leader
>>93207264Crossbow Expert plus Sharpshooter is the equivalent, since it also removes any penalties for shooting in melee
>>93204447That is the worst "translation" I have ever seen of that poem.Hollander's bad because he radically changes the sense of the last line (he orders people to "fall on thy foes straightaway" which is very different to not being friends with them ), but Thorpe, misquoted in that pic, completely invents that second line. It's not even what Thorpe wrote. Some third party has changed "injury" to "harm" which works this time but if someone's modifying an existing translation chances are they don't speak the original and are going to mess up the meaning.>If you know that someone is evil,>say so.>Never give friendship to your enemies.>If aware that another is wicked,>say so:>Make no truce or treaty with foes>If evil thou knowest,>as evil proclaim it,>And make no friendship with foes.How the fuck Thorpe got the second line to be>regard that harm as your ownfrom an admonition to speak up is anyone's guess.I fucking hate when veeaboos choose the crappiest and most nonsensical translation thinking it's cool and Viking and that it reflects well on them.
>>93206738If we're being generous, they might mean the planes, but knowing the incredibly low standards at WotC, they are probably going to just turn every official setting into part of a multiverse and try to make it one big unified setting, because they're a bunch of brainless hacks
>>93204240>>93205850Any man able to buck break WOTC in the current year is based beyond belief.
>>93202863>likes...>clear ideas for martials >essentially the same shit for casters at the end lol
>>93206738>>93208449Yes. Multiverse. The term that has already appeared in the old PHB and many of its class descriptions already. Have you read the 2014 PHB? Or even played the game you're whining about?
>>93208449It's similar to the problem that the MCU is facing; they interchange "dimension", "timeline", and "universe" all the time. They insist that it's a cohesive and structured multiverse, but when under scrutiny, they just give you the same old "space wizards for children" argument.Come to think of it, flip-flopping between arguments of quality to appeals for preference is also a thing D&D defenders (especially 5e) like to do.It's indicative of a deeper brainrot that's penetrated most mainstream media, in both its producers and its customers. Luckily, its easier to write your own TTRPG than make your own movie.
>>93202863> Only one "intelligence" class.> Rogue's complexity is low, wizard's complexity is average.Retarded
>>93202863> Warlock> Likes occult lore> Fucking charisma classWhy the hell are they still retarded enough to not make warlocks int characters?
>>93202863>Cleric: Average>Barbarian: Average>Rogue: Low>Wizard: AverageThis is the part where I make a joke about how they don't even play their own games but it's not even a joke at this point
>>93204457Yes
>>93202863>Monk>High complexity ???
>>93209400It makes sense that the people working on and who play D&D hate intelligence.
>>93206066>Remember the D&D show XDPeople who play this slop never even watched the show, let alone was born in the 80's.
>>93202863what the actual fuck is thiswho wrote this?whoever made that table seems like they've never actually played D&D in their life.>Wizard is average complexity>Monk,Sorc and Warlock are "high" complexityThey REALLY didn't play the game. Complexity isn't how hard it is to make a character, it's how hard it is to play the character. And I've never seen a monk hem and haw over if they should use a spell to solve a problem or not, or ask the DM to make a ruling about the narrative ramifications of a spell.
>>93202863>wizard>complexity averagelolwut?Glad they finally recognized that monk has the skill floor of a dirigible though, even if they just literally called it "the punch class" here, further exacerbating the problem.Also calling Paladins the defense class when they have the most nova potential is funny, and rogues the stealth class when they're mogged by rangers and druids is hilarious.
>>93202863wait, hold up, let's continue that though, why is Warlock high?What's so hard to pilot about "EB every turn a leveled spell doesn't apply"?
>>93209710>And I've never seen a monk hem and haw over if they should use a spell to solve a problem or not, or ask the DM to make a ruling about the narrative ramifications of a spell.That's because monks players share a single brain cell between them, and you don't have to hum and haw over a death save.They really, REALLY should be. Compare picrel, the classic monk gambit, tohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9tTR2tAXE
I seriously want to know what makes something difficult. Is it number of turns and options? Is it character creation and accidently making an suboptimal character? Is it based on how stupid the play testers are?
>>93208205This is the esoteric and niche subject specific knowledge that I come here for.Thanks, anon.
>>93206066>greek myth>swashbuckling on the high seasDid they forget every campaign is dungeonslop in the world of generic DnD fantasyslop?
>>93209878Or that like half of greek myth is dudes on boats getting into swordfights?
>>93209878they're trying to be a different game while still trying to be the same game.see>>93209841
>>93202863>2024>Warlocks are still CHA casters
>>93202863tbf, if you can read english figuring out how spells work should be pretty straightfoward.the only people who think that wizards are complex are too fucking stupid to read or think that having spells is difficult for some reason
>>93208792The people who wrote that book don't work for WotC anymore, you pedantic retard.
>>93209485Even the now-middle-aged players who did watch that show don't have any fondness or strong nostalgia for it beyond remembering it as a terrible 80s cartoon that was made as a desperate cash grab.
>>93209710WotC writers consider managing a pool of points that aren't hit points to be extra hard, which is why they try to avoid it at all costs.
>>93210982While you are correct, compared to everything else on that page it doesn't make sense. And wizards are supposed to have the potential to have high complexity anyway just because of how much they interact with the game and change the rules.
>>93211011>WotC writers consider managing a pool of points that aren't hit points to be extra hard,That makes even less sense, Ki is simple and warlock spellslots are non-existent. Meanwhile wizard and cleric have a lot of spell slots and rely in them to function at all.
>>93211037But those are slots, not points. It's very different. Everyone understands spell slots because they have to, because WotC refuses to slaughter that sacred cow.
>>93211000>Be Gary Gygax>Convince your company that you can leverage D&D into a media franchise>Rent mansion in L.A. to do your coke and assistant in on TSR's dime>Manage to get an cartoon made that was cancelled after 1 season>Mission accomplishedWhat an absolute chad
>>93209710In the community, played in a emptyhead charge blindly and punch strategy, monk serially underperforms. It's considered the single weakest class. The only reason there was any controversy over the position of worst was because ranger had like 4 class features that only applied to a style of play the community has largely abandoned (wilderness survival hexcrawl where the map is littered with dungeons, the players actually visit those dungeons in search of loot instead of doing medieval MCU shenanigans vs a BBEG, and the travel to and from dungeon isn't handwaved), and those who run it that way also tended to ban the ranger abilities that made it strong in that style of play because they more or less instantly solved most of what they wanted to emphasize, ranger is was a class for "okay yes we're playing with those rules in effect, but we don't actually want to have to use them, so we brought A Guy For That." Monk doesn't have that issue, except maybe in regards to weapon sundering.But remember, WotC always nerfs monks when they leave playtest or UA. This means in in-house playtests, monk always overperforms and has to be toned down. Its tools are all relatively simple, sure, but knowing how to use them in a way that actually contributes and doesn't just get you killed requires an actually solid grasp of the game and tactics in general.
>>93210996So what you're saying is they should have disrespected the old book and changed it instead?
>>93206066>Step 1: ClassAbout time they dropped the idea that D&D is a roleplaying game
>>93211892I wonder what is considered as "over performing" for them.
>>93212039Other players being upset that the combat focused class is better at combat than them, because anyone who fights with their fists shouldn't be better than someone shooting fireballs or swinging a sword.
>>93212078Oh, I see now. If you are focused on fighting or even just smart about combat you are just "power gaming"
>a single int classWhy
>>93209710I could see Monk being high complexity, in the sense that I see way too many Monk players who have their character run in, waste their Ki, and spend half the fight unconscious on the ground.Wizard being Average while Warlock is High is just retarded though. Warlock is drastically easier to understand in actual play (you have two spell slots and spam cantrips) compared to a Wizard where a player can very easily screw themselves over by not only picking bad spells, but using the poorly. Even Sorcerer is probably less complex since you can just dump all of your Sorcery points into extra casts of Fireball. My only guess is that they put Monk as High complexity simply so that people wouldn't rightfully point out that there would be a lack of High complexity martials. Though even with that it's now glaringly obvious that the game lacks a Low complexity magic class. Even if this chart was somehow accurate, the fact that they didn't see a problem with Sorcerer or Warlock being high complexity despite being classes that new players frequently flock towards isn't a good sign. Why should the Int based class who has to study for all of their magic not be more complex than the guy who was born with it or the guy who made a deal? Wizard is already a better class overall, so they could simplify the other two as a tradeoff. Lower risk of messing up, but lower reward.This chart really exemplifies a lot that's wrong with 5e.
>>93212274Because it doesn't meet the objectives of players in games. INT is the "recall things" stat, which is only useful for obscure lore dumps (and thus rarely if ever affects the campaign). In contrast, WIS is the observation stat and CHA lets you directly shape the game.
>>93212284>by not only picking bad spells, but using the poorly.The amount of fights that just amount to a wizard burning high level spells that a fighter could easily take take of only to want to take a rest when they run out 2 minutes later is annoying
>>93212274There is zero use for int other then to meta game or bypass shitty puzzles. Shit that could make int useful like decoding or crafting you can either buy or use magic to solve.
>>93208792I did, about 9 years ago in fact, for a few years. I still remember the rules, I obviously do not remember useless flavor text
>>93212274>only Wizards (of the Coast) are IntelligentI wonder why.
>>93212467which is funny because wizard players without fail are always the most stupid>But what about low wisdomNo, they are stupid
>>93202863>Paladin likes DefenseWhat, that's it? The thing holy warriors like is fucking DEFENSE?
>>93210982Wizards are complex in that they need to be concerned with gathering new spells and anticipating what prepared spells they'll even need in any given adventure. It requires mechanical finagling with your prepared spells every long rest as well as persistent roleplay about seeking new knowledge.More complex than sorcerers who can just cast whatever they know and only need to crack open the book and learn 1 new spell when they level up.
>D&D is literally for normies editionKek
>>93209423It's high complexity because to be able to play a Monk you have to know how to navigate the multiclassing rules and some other archetype's mechanics.
>>93204575>Barbarian is harder to play than Rogue?yes? rogue has always been the little brother class you recommend to children and morons. >no resource management>no multiple attacks to manage>every turn is just hiding or taking steady aim for sneak attack, and they get to feel special for rolling a bunch of dice even if they don't actually do a lotbarbarian has a daily resource they need to manage between multiple encounters and out of combat situations via Rage and has built-in tradeoffs like reckless attack, now they also have brutal strikes allowing you to forego advantage to debuff enemies and support allies. It's not terribly hard, no martial in 5e is, but it's definitely more complex than "bonus action hide, shoot bow, end turn" for 20 levels
>>93206066Finally a return to real D&D, with pointy hats, and acrobats.
>>93202863I could see a use for the "Likes" column as a way of getting a very broad-strokes idea of the intended class fantasy for brand-new players, but these aren't even good for that. You can tell how much trouble they had differentiating the arcane casters.
>>93213344>>93214468It is just a mess. Some of them give a good mechanical indication, like Monks listing Unarmed Combat or Rogue listing Stealth, but most of them are completely worthless for figuring out what the class actually does. If somebody asked me a class for a character who wanted to seek out Occult Lore, I'd tell them Wizard, because they're better at Int-skills and can actually learn new spells from books/scrolls. Listing Wizard as liking Arcane Lore still wouldn't give you a good indication of how the class plays, but I could at least understand how one would arrive at that answer.
>>93202863>Loik me battle>Loik me weapons>'ate spellbooks>'ate tieflings (not racist just don't like em)>simple as
>>93202863>Monks>High complexityChecks out. If you're playing Monk right then you're basically a caster.
>>93214132wizards can change spells per day, like clerics, so they're about the same. Druids have wildshape, and they're full casters, so they're more complex than wizards.sorcs can't preplan spells like a wizard, but needs to pre-plan for the entire campaign, more thought needed into the choices. There's a greater finality to the choices made (wizard also gets more free spells). also, they've got another currancy (metamagic) to work with. therefore, more complex than a wizard.warlocks are like sorcs, only they have the least amount of slots to play with, and they have invocations instead of metamagic, therefore theyre more complex than wizards.bards are like sorcs, so they're more complex than wizards.>presistent roleplay about seeking new knowledgeDude, everyone roleplays in this game. if you think roleplaying is difficult then i understand why you think wizards are high complexity. >>93211021It does, lol. Wizards aren't the only full casters in the game. Clerics are even more cracked late game with access to divine intervention. Hell to wish, you've got a god to make demands of
>>93214935>Look at me, I'm being a contrarian!Opinion discarded.
>>93214407Rogue is also a skill monkey. And nothing you mentioned about barbarian is harder than playing rogue.
>>93202863I was going to laigh at the "Primary ability" mechanical dumbification, but then I saw the babying and patronizing "Complexity" column and wanted to comment on that too, but then I saw the absolutely infantile "Likes" and realized that the whole thing is just so fucking stupid, and to say more about it, to go through all of it, serves no purpose whatsoever, and would be a waste of my time.Holy shit nuD&D is so fucking dogshit it boggles the mind. And it's not just one or two things. It's every part of it, from the mechanics to the fluff to the aesthetics, all the way to the meta of the marketing. Just absolute dogshit.
>>93204447What fucking retard translated that? It's not even a hard section to translate.>Om ont du märker,>säg, att ont det är,>och giv ej din fiende frid.If evil you notice,tell then that evil is,and don't give your enemy peace.There is absolutely nothing in there about harm, let alone regarding it as your own. It speaks of speaking the truth, not about looking for things to be upset about like a redditor.
>>93215200They really should have learned from how extreme and uniformed people are when it comes to the alignment system, the class "likes" are only going to harm that more
>>93215266It should also be notice that the part about giving peace is likely about not making friends with such people, not about harassing them in a combative sense. "Giving peace" in the giving context is essentially "don't give peaceful accords to your supposedly evil foes". It's essentially just "See something, say something, (and keep saying it if necessary)". That's the entire point of 127.
>>93210982I hate when people try to be persnickety and act ad mighty advanced intellectual beingsComplex doesn't mean hard to figure out, that's "complicated", complex just means something with a lot of moving parts or hairy details. Spells have many moving parts and hairy details and the wizard has a lot of spells so it's a complex class.
>>93211912I'm saying the writers and their intentions are vastly different, owing to the kind of people they are and the state of the creative landscape they are working in. Time changes things, especially given 20 years, you dense, pedantic fuck.
>>93208086A crossbow attack done in melee still counts as an attack with a ranged weapon, so you can't smite on it.This also, unfortunately, means that you also can't divine smite by pistol whipping someone.
>>93202863Okay, I haven't read all of the 2024 material yet, so I'll just have to take WOTC's word that monks are more complex than wizards now despite how doubtful that is.But the likes category is fucking baffling. What is this meant to indicate?Does it indicate what the character likes? Or what role the character likes to be in? Or which class you should pick if you like those things?It gets worse the more I think about it.
Do elves still change their gender once per day?
>>93215556when was that ever a thing?
>>93215590Since Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.
>>93202863>Likes ...Is this a game for fucking toddlers?
>>93214295because d&d was such an underground franchise before
>>93215156>Rogue is also a skill monkey.again, that makes them the dumbest and easiest class in the game because even a commoner with 10 in every stat can attempt every skill check in the game. 5e skills are a tacked-on afterthought, there's no Trained-only requirement, and there's barely any actual defined usage for the vast majority of them in contrast to prior editions, even AD&D non-weapon-proficiencies had more guidance. Nothing about a Rogue having slightly higher bonuses to skill checks (and that's not even true, since guidance and inspiration exist on other classes) makes them """""complex"""""", because skills are not complex, your 12 year old little brother can say "I WANNA ROLL ANIMAL HANDLING TO PET THE DOG!" and you can let him if he gets a 10+ while the big boys play actual characters with actual class features
>Complexity>High
>>93204183I found a picture of that 'new writer'.
>>93209403It's kind of true, though.The most complex part of Cleric is prepping spells, and for Wizard, it's for figuring out how to get away with the most bullshit without dying.Barbarians ironically require quite a bit of restraint, and attacking with a weapon is only good if you're stacking all the damage you can onto it, which frequent napkin math (average DnD players these days are not smarter than a 4th grader) and requires a setup, and therefore only worth doing if you aren't going to miss, which means you need to constantly harvest some kind of advantage.Rogues just hide for a bit, then attack once for big damage.
>>93217480Cleric and Wizard have to deal with prepping spells and usage of spells, which is the most complex part of DnD.The Barbarian has to use his bonus action rage and his action to his opponent.I agree that rogue is also low.>>93202863My list would beBarbarian LowBard HighCleric Average/High (depends on style of play)Druid HighFighter LowMonk AveragePaladin Average/Low (depends on style of play)Ranger AverageRogue LowSorcerer AverageWarlock AverageWizard Highopinions?
>>93217522Prepping spells isn't the most complex part of DnD. It's actually quite intiutive, despite spell slots and spell levels being not as intuitive.A Wizard's Fireball is always good, unless it would obviously kill the whole party (duh) or you're fighting fire elementals or some obvious shit like that. No matter what, there are always 'good' spells for any situation, and not picking them is an option for more confident players.Barbarian's lacking options makes them more complex, not less. There are times when using rage is a bad idea, not because it has weaknesses, but because it has an upkeep demand and only so many uses. Attacking with a melee weapon requires movement on foot, which can be obscured, and unlike Fireball, there are plenty of times where entering melee combat with the wrong enemy is a really bad idea.Not having cheap tricks to see you through a tough encounter means you have to constantly adjust your one game plan around every single encounter, because running up and hitting something sounds easy, which is why any encounter is likely to make that hard.Reminder that Fireball only needs the caster to *see* where it goes off, and they point at the location from range, and it blooms from that point. You don't even need to *hit* with it for it to 'hit'.Also, Barbarian has to constantly count up their damage with all of the stacking effects you ideally want for normal weapon attacks, so there's that.Fireball is the clean and clear example, but a ton of magic is like this. Spells each have obvious use cases, like Feather Fall or Mage Armor, Bless and Bane, you get the picture.
>>93217522>>93217610As for your list:Monk is high because of just how much is demanded of the Monk to do at once with only basic actions. They can endure damage with catch missile and Ki defense actions, or move fast with Ki, or deal a bunch of damage, but they have to choose on the spot, and each have their risks.Sorc have less spells than Wizard, and can't change them, so while they are conceptually simple on paper, they end up being fragile like Wizards with less spells to protect themselves with and less trickery for a move specialized toolset.Warlocks, I don't even know what Wottocks want to do with them.Everything else (Barb and Wizard I don't agree with already said in other post) is good.
>>93217610anon, figuring out the always-good spells and which are the best situational spells IS the difficulty. Also the best situations to use spells are also difficult to figure out.In practical play, anything a barbarian has to think about is as much as a fighter or rogue has to. You wont tell me rogue is complex just because he has to flank all the time?
>>93211892there is no way to play monk that doesn't underperform
>>93215364>2014 is 20 years ago
>>93217610there are literally hundreds of spells you retard
>>93218191stop you're making me feel old
>>93207541they're based on Faust>Faust is unsatisfied with his life as a scholar and becomes depressed. After an attempt to take his own life, he calls on the Devil for further knowledge and magic powers with which to indulge all the pleasure and knowledge of the world.
>>93218410This is all from the new book? They're really trying to marvelize this........
>>93202863>wizard>only intelligence based class>complexity>average
>>93218436filename, anon
>>93218436That's like saying their obsession with Vecna has precedent when he's been around forever, when we all know it's because of Stranger Things.D&D has precedent for practically anything, but if they lean into what's trendy it's cringe.>>93218487Sarcasm, motherfucker.
>>93218492Stranger things picked Vecna because of Vecna's popularity. He was huge in the AD&D era, and him fucking up is actually canonically what lead to 3rd edition.Same with them picking the name Demogorgon despite their Demogorgon just being some sort of Last of Us rejected design.
>>93218487Nobody reads filenames when it's not a filename thread, clearly irrelevant
>>93202863> 4 charisma classes, 3 of them arcane full casters> 1 (ONE) intelligence classes> Warlock likes "Occult lore", still a charisma classFucking stupid.
>>93202863How is Unga Bunga average complexity?
>>93202863>move over mitwit wizard!>bard coming through!
>>93218641in the wizard video they even said something like "wizard players don't read their class features" lol
>>93202863Wtf you even need all those classes for, you're a rogue, a fighter, a mage, maybe a cleric, a paladin, a ranger at most.
>>93205568>optimization metaYOU NEED TO BE PELTED WITH TOMATOES IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE, what an awful, awful way to roleplay
>>93218914a paladin is just a cleric in plate armora ranger is just a rogue that has touched grass more than once
>>93218948Well, that's kinda what I mean, at a pinch. We got punchy dudes, sneaky dudes, holy dudes and zappy dude s
all casters in 5e are retarded, but especially the wizard, because 90% of the gameplay consists of sorting through the mountains of shitty spells from the expansions to find the 4 good ones for your class and using them and only them for the rest of the campaign because bounded accuracy ensures you can never be too powerful.
>>93218963>because 90% of the gameplay consists of sorting through the mountains of shitty spells from the expansions to find the 4 good ones for your class>but especially the [class with the most spell variety]idgicleric suffers that to a much more extreme degree since spirit guardians > spiritual weapon > guiding bolt is the only things they use once they get high enough level
>>93218963get with the times, boomercaster players just read online guides nowmost of them don't even play
>>93215674You tell me
>>93205746If Warlocks were smart, they would be Wizards
>>93219773Wizards are the most retarded class because they struggle to remember the same fucking fireball spell they've memorized every day for years.Also, everyone interprets INT stat as autism levels while WIS gets to be true intelligence.
>>93209423since the days of the mystics in BECMI playing monks have been a fucking nightmare, in every edition (except 4e) playing monks needs you to be a veteran player that knows how the fuck every mechanic works so you can play a barely functional build.
>>93206095
>>93202863The special ed department called.
>>93215492>This also, unfortunately, means that you also can't divine smite by pistol whipping someone.That's a melee attack and a weapon attack, so it'd satisfy "melee weapon attack"--as opposed to "an attack with a melee weapon," which would need to use something from a melee weapon category (though pistol whipping could arguably work for that on an ad hoc basis by way of being an improvised weapon attack similar to a strike with a club).I don't know if anybody with a preview copy has floated what the final phrasing on 5e24's smite phrasing is going to be. We know unarmed attacks can work with it, but it probably won't be quite as permissive as simply 'melee attacks' as that would allow smiting with melee spell attacks.But then again, I can't think of a good reason why they *shouldn't* be allowed to do that necessarily, so it may be that simple after all. Stacking that with juicy spell weapon stuff would be more costly and/or resource intensive that PAM plus GWM, so, fuck it, may as well go hog wild.
>>93208480dangerously based.
>>93209829The more options you have as a PC at any time, both as class features or character building options, the harder the class is.Wizard might be complex but he's jsut spells guy with whatever shit subclass feature you get.A warlock has to pick Spells, pact and invocations on top of feats. That's like 4 different lsits to check, man!Do you wanna know how bad this is? Playing Baldur's gate 3 with 2 friends, one that has never played TTRPG and one I've been playing at a table for 4 years now, when we leveled up to 4 they both refused to lvl up and continued progressing for a while because "it's too much stuff to look up, I'll do it later".The "veteran" guy needs an average of 20min to pick up a new spell whenever we level up.And they get extremely mad if you point out how slow they are or to grab whatever because they can change it later.People aren't willing to take risk or fail, but they also can't deny that risk and failure is what makes success so fullfilling.
>>93212339That's up to the GM standing his ground and either not allowing the rest or offering proper consequences for it.I make it very clear each adventuring day will have at least 3 fights, blow your spells early, that's your problem.
>>93218784They also said that Warlock upcasting spells is too powerful and that Fighter (and martials) cannot have itneresting mechanics because that's unfair for people who enjoys barbarians or Champion fighters who don't want to think when playing.
>>93202863They make sense. I’m glad rogue seems simplified.
>>93208449they already did in the latest vecna adventure
>>93233678Why do people waste their time cherry picking things to defend WotC over when WotC is already doing every retarded thing anyone could make up as a retarded thing for them to do?
