dm asked what magic item i want (no he wasnt more specific)
what do i even say
"staff that makes spells gooder" seems to vague but "staff of +5 DC" seems too retarded

>>93203883
Slippers of Spider Climb, easily.

>>93203883
I usually say both "I want a gooder sword, maybe a +3?", then the DM takes what I want, changes it to what works for the game, "+3 is retarded, how about +1 and an extra d4 to damage" and I'm happy. Ask and you shall receive

>>93203883
What are you playing?

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Are there any good supplements for playing Dark Sun in 5e?

Was looking to get into DnD. Should I bother reading the 5e manual if they are releasing a new edition in a few months?
Also how is this being handled with the current scene. Is everyone planning for this and then switching over once it drops? It would be cool to get involved in a time when a new edition is out.

>>93203868
He doesn't really want anyone dead, but recognizes that sometimes, some people need to die for others to live.

Knowing that there is a Staff of Power to be found in the second half of a levels 1 through 10 module, what to you build around it and why? A spellcaster to take full advantage of the spells, or maybe a gish that can use a +2 quarterstaff with a host of extra properties?

Will it be easier or harder to homebrew monsters for One DND

>>93204106
Finally a chance for my Fighter 1/Warlock (blade fiend) 9 to shine.
But the most realistic outcome is yet an other item for the resident loot goblin's pile of used "once and then forgotten" stuff.

>>93204022
>Is everyone planning for this and then switching over once it drops?
This isn't a videogame
You find a group and play what you want

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Reposting my semi-annual update to my bullshit for anyone who cares. As usual, I'll only keep this up for another thread or two before going quiet again as I work on my next revision pass.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/E3GrBudyS1k5

The biggest change from the Winter 2023 update has been the overhaul to feats, which have multiplied substantially in number. Some of them are probably ill-thought-out because I'm just one guy. After the disappointment of WotC's 2024 ranger announcement, I went ahead and gave the class another pass, polishing up a few things and tightening up some inconsistencies.

Another significant change was the removal of death saving throws as a mechanic. After some playtesting, we determined that dying at 0 with no Hit Dice remaining was already lenient enough--if you're committing to that play, it's honestly disappointing to the tension sucked out by successful death saves.

Kineticism and Solipsism also got most of their disciplines released, though they're still a few short. I have ideas for those, but I needed to change tracks for a bit to get myself out of a rut.

As always, feel free to call me a faggot, steal my ideas and publish them elsewhere as your own, neither, or both. If you do find something glaringly retarded, I would appreciate being told so that I can fix it.

>>93204135
>resident loot goblin
Call him out on his bullshit.

>>93204135
Your table does know that characters typically only have the three attunement slots, right? Hoarding behavior is not only dickish, but mechanically indefensible as well.

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Hate pulling out my phone during combat, anyone know any good printable spell cards?

>>93201627
Haunted house antics. Each of these staircases leads inexplicably to a different staircase on the same map. Real scooby-doo type shit.

>>93204158
I appreciate the sheer time involved to make this - but that makes it hard to read.
Mind giving us an overview of your major goals/changes? Currently the main thing I notice is "Martials get manuevers in the same vein as Casters get spells, ie halfcasters get slower manuever progression" and also way more feats.

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>>93203868
>previews of the 2024 class changes
>every other class gets a full overview
>druid just gets information on wild shape and nothing else
What the fuck is going on

>>93204458
not that anon but:
>martial maneuvers exist as an analogy to spellcasting.
>most (all?) maneuvers can be 'upcast' granting a variety of different benefits per maneuver
>some class stuff renamed - ki to focus, barbarian to berserker
>two classes added: mystic and shaman
>bunch of feats added
probably more than this but I gave it just a quick perusal

>>93204458
Maneuvers are probably the biggest single change, since that's an entire subsystem spun out from what was a single subclass in base 5e. Psionics also got properly implemented, despite WotC abandoning the Mystic, and has been further developed and integrated into the psionic subclasses.

Supplemental features--an artificer's infusions, a berserker's instincts, a fighter's aptitudes, a monk's mantras, a paladin's blessings, a ranger's secrets, a rogue's schemes, or the invocations available to a shaman or warlock--have also been made into more of a focus. Full casters have a lot of versatility and adaptability, and these features are intended to make up for that by giving other characters more customization. On dedicated short-rest classes, they also give subclasses a bit more weight, since some supplemental features are subclass-specific.

You noted the proliferation in the number of feats, both in terms of the list of feats available and the number of feats a character gets. That all plugs back into the idea of having more decision points in building a character, while also trying to avoid the bloat and chaff of 3.5.

There have been a few changes to how ability scores and their increases are handled. Standard array is mandated, your race-based ASIs are +2 and +1 depending on your race, and you also get two additional +1s from your background. However, your starting ability scores after all these increases are applied are capped at 16, so any race can max out their most important ability score with their background +1. Then, ability scores from feats function on the normal cap of 20. No feat increases a single ability score by more than +1, so the earliest you can have a 20 in any score is 6th level.

>Continued

>>93204458
>>93204566
Hit points are drastically reduced, with a d12 only giving 4 hit points per level and a d6 only giving 1 hit point per level. Con becomes more valuable, as does Hit Dice healing. If you're knocked unconscious at 0, you don't make death saving throws, but you also don't get up automatically when healed above 0. Instead, once you've been healed, you roll a d20 at the END of each of your turns and add your current hit point total to the roll. If the result is 15 or higher, you regain consciousness. Otherwise, you remain unconscious. This means that keeping people up above 0 is better action economy than the healing word yo-yo, since you always lose at least a full turn if knocked unconscious. Healing surges are back in, allowing players to spend some of their own resources to stay up, making hit points and damage a more dynamic resource to manage.

No death saving throws, but you automatically die if reduced to 0 hit points with no Hit Dice remaining. You can always choose not to expend your last Hit Die and just accept defeat, but that will lead to complications and consequences. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory, there's a Fight to the End option you can take when reduced to 0 with Hit Dice remaining that lets you blow them all for a heroic last stand.

A large number of subclasses got reworked, both to integrate new subsystems and to rebalance some egregious differences in power that had emerged over the ten years of the edition's lifespan. Some new ones were added to bring every class's total to a minimum of 8, with cleric stretching above that for reasons to do with the setting I run for my games. Everything now gets either granted spells or an expanded maneuver/spell list, so your subclass also shapes the spells and maneuvers you have access to.

A decent chunk of spells were removed, some were reworked, and some new ones were added. Some spells were cut because they didn't fit anywhere on the revised spell lists.

/5eg/, what do you think about using Action Points instead of different kinds of actions?

>>93204680
While I think AP gives a nice granularity - 5e is far too deep in the trenches for everything to be neatly converted into an AP systems.

Being able to say "sometimes things are bonus actions but not actions" means that you can't give say "oh you get three AP, anything that was a BA is previoulys 1 AP".

>>93204458
>>93204566
>>93204630
For reasons of space and the willingness of the thread to put up with me, I'm not going to enumerate all the individual class changes, but there were some conceptual-level ones that are worth noting:

There are no longer any class features that allow you to use anything other than Strength or Dexterity for a conventional weapon attack. If you want to build a gish, you build a gish, and part of that is investing in multiple ability scores. With the new feat and ability score paradigms, that isn't exactly an unattainable goal.

Any subclass that grants a 1/3 progression comes with its own spell or maneuver list, rather than poaching from that of an existing class. This was something of a necessity, as the rework to the wizard spell list would otherwise have neutered Eldritch Warrior and Arcane Trickster.

There are several areas where I've replaced terminology--"knight" doesn't appear on any fighter subclasses, for example, and monks no longer use "ki". This is entirely the result of my autism, and is mostly here because I didn't want to hunt down every use of the various terms in my internal documents when porting the material to the public version. Feel free to ignore that and revert whatever terms you please.

Classes without iconic "core" mechanics got them added. Ranger has Marked Prey, Warlock has Malediction, Wizard gets Experimental Magic and I will surely never regret that feature in specific.

Multiclassing has math to it now. You need to maintain half as many levels in your next-lowest class as in your higher level class. So you can't play a Warlock 1/Sorcerer 8, but would have to be a Warlock 3/Sorcerer 6. Dipping is dead. To accommodate this, supplemental feature prerequisites and companion scaling both let you count half your levels in all other classes.

Overall, my focus thus far has primarily been on player options, seeking to make character building less anemic without tipping over into burdensome.

>>93204696
>sometimes things are bonus actions but not actions

can you give an example?

>>93203883
If it's any item.
Instant fortress. Not for protection but so you can throw it at some bigguy your dm comes up with.
>Each creature in the area where the fortress appears must make a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw, taking 10d10 bludgeoning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. In either case, the creature is pushed to an unoccupied space outside but next to the fortress. Objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried take this damage and are pushed automatically.

If you wanted a real item idk
staff of power? Ac +2, Saving Throws +2, Spell Attack +2

>>93203868
>Who does your character want dead, and why, /5eg/?
His past self. He was a war machine.
And there might be another unit like him with a less than stellar moral compass.

>>93204680
5e has the wrong granularity for action points, really--it's too granular in some areas of the mechanics and not granular enough in others. Unless you were going to comb through the system and individually point-cost every spell and action in the game, you'd effectively just be saying "Instead of your Action, you can take two additional Bonus Actions on your turn." There are very few cases in which that's really worth the tradeoff, and I doubt your players would even remember the rule after a few sessions.

>>93204726
Anything that's only presented as a bonus action can only be taken as a bonus action. There's no rule that permits you to take a bonus action in place of your normal action.

>>93204726
A number of spells are BA only, as well as many feats which let you use your BA in different ways.

Another example is stuff like Cunning Action. If we just ported anything that takes a BA as needing fewer AP - then that means that cunning action would potentially allow you to do wayyyy more stuff than they inteded. (Ie, if you get three AP and cunning action is one, then you could dash three times a turn rather than twice like you can in base 5e).

Also, desu, I don't think "Action, Bonus Action, which are separate concepts" is that bad.

>>93204726
Branding Smite

>>93204680
not in favor. Not all actions have equal weight, so shouldn't have an equal cost.
I'm playing a pathfinder 2e game right now, and using an action for things like putting a second hand on a weapon feels like shit.

>>93204742
There's a middle ground where you can leave a lot of things the same, but make other things more granular

Here's my idea You get 5 AP on each of your turns, which you can use like this

5 AP: Hold your turn, Ready an action,
4 AP: Attack with a ranged weapon. Cast a spell as an Action
3 AP: Attack with a melee weapon, Attack with a Light ranged weapon, Climb, Crawl, Disengage, Dodge, Fly, Jump, Swim, Hide, other Actions
2 AP: Attack with a Light melee weapon, Attack with an Unarmed Strike, Cast a spell as a Bonus Action, Grapple, Shove, Walk, Other Bonus Actions
1 AP: Dismount, Go Prone, Interact with an object, Mount, Stand Up
0 AP: Communicate
>>93204749
>>93204770
>>93204804
I don't think you guys understand what the previous poster was talking about, or what the point of an AP system even is

>>93204869
that's because PF2e decided to make every little thing cost 1 AP instead of letting some things cost 0

>>93204871
I don't think you understand how 5e works

>>93203156
>Half-elf (product of rape)
Lewd, but was it a elf raping a human or vice versa?

>>93204976
human woman violently raping a defenseless elf twink so her bloodline would live longer

>>93203868
Where is this drawing from?

Fuck yeah, 2024 Warlock!

>>93204488
sauce

>>93205013
A mobile game called Elder Scrolls: Castles.

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>>93205062
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1755-the-2024-circle-of-the-moon-druid-and-changes-to

All the others have a full overview of changes but Druids get Wild Shape info and that's all.

>>93205085
Cute art, I hoped it would be something interesting, but the gameplay was a complete turn off.
But thanks, anon.

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Help needed,

Last week I awarded a player several vials of a magical drug called Opalesce, described as a shimmering, rainbow colored liquid. What are some cool effects for a magic drug?

I already have an opioid and an amphetamine represented in my game.

Looking for suggestions/ideas/tips in building a meaningful choice for party. It shouldnt be explicit but organic

>bring peace to the ghost of the long dead priest by performing the burial ceremony. Unbeknownst to them, the celestial that's been invisibly observing them explore the abandonned temple will grant them a boon once he sees this.
>do something evil/selfish that benefits them...??

I was thinking the ceremony requires something expensive to be consumed or to be buried alongside the priest but I was hoping to find something more

>>93205166
>What are some cool effects for a magic drug
true sight
blind sight
cast scrying
cast dream
see invisibility
see ethereal
time stop
haste
resistance to psychic
all the effects from the magic mushroom, primal fruit, or enchanted spring tables

always need penalty though:
disadvantage on int/wis ability checks
slow
disadvantage on dex saves
disadvantage on initiative

>>93205166
Temporarily restores youth, bringing you to the peak of your prime. Temporarily. But, man, does coming down hit hard and age you a bit past when you were when you took the hit.

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>>93205166
There was a drug in a campaign I was in a few years back that was just distilled tears of captured Umberhulks called Haze that was applied to the eyes of the user and caused Confusion, hazy vision (hence the name) and forgetfulness. Higher concentrated doses after making a Con save to avoid the aforementioned effects and allowed you to temporarily cause confusion to those who weren't avoiding their gaze of you much like the Umberhulk as your eyes turned glossy black kinda like Eyebite. Effect only lasted for a minute and left you temporarily blinded for a few hours afterward and continued usage would cause permanent eye damage.

>>93205167
Maybe steal his belongings in the temple for some decent magic items and maybe a devil who sees an opportunity may try to capitalize on their greed in the future such as through deals which could be a double edged sword.

>>93205166
Grants you a shitload of special senses, but also you see stuff that isn't real. People take the drug and hope that when not high they'll be able to figure out which parts of what they saw was real.

>>93205232
>>93205181
Very good shit that I might use for different drugs if I need them

>>93205232
Also great, but all my players designed characters in their prime even though we are all in our early 30s (lol)

>>93205267
This works for me the best. Good idea, thank you all for the responses.

>>93205166
That fits the name? The power of a randomly determined element surges through your veins, causing you to deal 1d4 additional damage of that type for 8 hours. If you take two doses, the dice goes up to a d6 but you also take the damage from that die

Thoughts on starting a party at level 0? I'm planning on having the party start off as complete nobodies (at least, when it comes to the combat/adventuring world, they can be big shots in other areas) who have no idea how to swing a sword, but they'll be trained by some of the best [insert their class] trainers in the land, in a time of great strife and need for adventurers.

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>>93203883
pic related

>>93205343
What benefit do you think lacking class features / havings hit all hit points and profs will give to your players and/or yourself?

>>93205361
I'm autistic sorry, STARTING at level 0, they would be trained to level one at the beginning after my introduction/session zero.

They're not gonna be fighting bandits at level 0.

>>93205365
Oh i see. I think that since it's basically just a framing device to get characters going it's neat and not going to disrupt play.

I also think it'll be a good way to encourage players to really chat about their gameplay mechanics as a part of their character as they answe the question "how were you trained to do X and Y"

>>93205383
Glad to have some thoughts! I've always loved starting at first level instead of starting at a high level, it really gives off that "the full journey" vibe, we saw how we begun, and how it ended.

This time I'm gonna give MEGA enhanced XP gains though (they'll be returning home where the trainers are for justification for their rapid growth)

>>93204001
Last I looked, it's pretty much just passion projects/ homebrew stuff. If you just want world lore and context galore, some dude compiled 5 big PDFs about Athas and its history, the city-states, societies, magic + psionics, and creatures, respectively for public download. There was a 5e homebrew in the works I think, but I don't believe it was close to finished.

Speed should be 25 feet + 5 x Str

>>93205533
What about dex?

>>93205359
>seems

>>93205166
Ethereal Sight. poisoned condition, 1d4 Temporary HP.

realized something about the ranger capstone...
barbarians get +4 Str and Con
+4 str means you deal +2 damage per hit
going from d6->d10 increases damage by +2
So barbarians get the same damage boost without needing to concentrate or expend a resource, and it boosts their chance to hit and skill/saving throw stuff, AND they get +4 con at the same time.

So is there any point to my character? I made a basic fighter, focused on tanking damage and dealing it.

Another play made an Echo Knight, which seems to do all of that and have better action economy, better movement and better tricks.

I like my character but seems like I just don't add any value to the party.

>>93205702
Just grab sentinel, polearm master and/or great weapon master and outpace him effortlessly.

>>93205702
what is a 'basic fighter' in this context?

>>93205710
I have all these and get swarmed and killed by peasants while he beats CR 6 enemies at level 4.

How would any of these help? I went Great Weapon but I've never been in a spot where the lower accuracy is worth more damage.

And Sentientel doesn't seem relevant because no one disengages from me once I get to them.

>>93205713
Battlemaster, GWM, Riposte, Precision, Feint

Like this guy can jump around, stun lock enemies and its crazy. I just wanna find a niche so I'm not deadweight.

>>93205729
Get trip attack. If you have a rogue, get commander's strike (since he will be able to sneak attack on his reaction, even if it was on his turn)

Scenario with Sentinel + PAM: Enemy approaches, granting you an AoO... you make him trip with 0 speed, so not only is he prone but he can't get up... he'll likely just finish his turn. You can then approach, make a tonne of attacks within 5 ft. for advantage since he's prone, then move away with either pushing attack so he gets no AoO, or just moving away since his AoO will be with disadvantage. If you miss.

This is a best case scenario of course, precision attack will help with misses, but you'll still be mega effective.

>>93205729
replace feint with disarming strike
replace precision with trip attack
you want to be knocking people down with one attack and then using your great weapon master attack with advantage to deal mega damage. disarming strike is just good vs anyone with another weapon cuz unarmed attacks are STR mod damage

>>93205729
Battle Master is every ounce as good as Echo Knight. You'll want PAM to weaponize your bonus action, which Echo Knight doesn't do as well as you due to conflict with their Echo Summon. You'll be making three or four GWM attacks every turn, whereas the Echo Knight will likely only be making two or three. Menacing Attack will help with that "stun lock" part of the build you're talking about. Sentinel is optional, but worthwhile after you max out your STR. For your maneuvers: Precision Attack, Menacing Attack and Trip Attack are all very useful. Precision Attack is accuracy, Menacing attack is extra damage and a fear, Trip Attack is a source of advantage for yourself and extra damage. You will out pace him in damage, but the Echo Knight will have more control most of the time.

>>93205729
why is your dm not giving you magic items to help you keep up, talk to him about this lol

>>93205702
>>93205729
You're the reason WotC thinks Fighter needs to not have features and needs to be as simple as possible.

>>93205729
Why do you have Riposte and Feint with PAM? Seems redundant. Like this anon said check out Menacing attack, it's very good. >>93205809

Also I know that another anon recommended Sentinel but I would not. I know it has synergy with PAM because you can sometimes stop an enemy from even reaching you, but it also has redundancy with PAM in that they both give you a reaction attack, of which you can only use one. It's over-rated IMO.

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>>93203868
Have you thanked the party caster yet, /5eg/?

Some people have the book already? any scans?

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Just realized there's no reason to play Fighter because Paladin does everything better.

>>93203868
A Gilded Devil just got his neck pierced by our rogue’s rapier, after he was shot by our monk’s musket and gored by my lance. He’s dead, for now, but he was quite vocal about how much he’s gonna make us regret it while he was chocking on his own blood. Best part is we are gonna replace him with a Doppelgänger who is gonna assume his appearance, his death will be meaningless

>>93205535
This is to give strength a buff, as Dex is already much, much stronger than STR is

>>93205880
can you stop posting that ugly hag? she looks like she costs five bucks an hour

>>93205902
Reliance on DEX if you don't have heavy armor is what fucks STR imo

>>93204158
It’s good to see you again!
Since you are taking questions, do you still remember that homebrew archetype for the fighter called the Warlord, that took inspiration from 4e in how it had “encounter” powers? I never really got your full thoughts on it. Personally? I still think it’s the only fighter subclass I’ve ever seen that actually captures the feeling of the 4e Warlord, which I do feel, is one Archetype your “Anon’s Bullshit” lacks, unfortunately

0: Sorlock, Bardlock
1: Artificer, Ranger, Paladin, Fighter, Sorcerer, Cleric, Warlock
2: Bard, Wizard, Druid, Monk, Barbarian, Rogue

>>93205935
Do the subclasses too

>>93205996
That's too much work to organize all at once. Which class do you want me to do?

>>93205935
What is this?

>>93204342
Just take a piece of paper from a notebook and write down your important spells

>>93206004
Fighter since people were talking about it above.

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>>93205935

>>93205888
It seems they were more discerning with who they gave the book out to.

>>93206027
A tier list.

>>93206037
Lower is better.

>>93206032
0: Battle Master, Echo Knight, Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, Rune Knight
1: Arcane Archer, Samurai, Scofflaw
2: Cavalier, Champion, Banneret

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>>93206063
>Eldritch Knight on the same tier as Battle Master

>>93206063
Why is Eldritch Knight in the highest tier?
Why is Cavalier in the lowest tier?
Why is Samurai lower than Eldritch Knight?

>>93206072
It gets spellcasting. Its garbage class features don't change that.

>>93206078
>muh hecking 4 casts of shield and absorb elements per day

>>93206078
They're a 1/3rd caster with extreme limitations on said spellcasting

>>93205935
>0: Sorlock, Bardlock
Where is Sorcadin?

>>93206085
This, but unironically.

>>93205894
flavor reasons, achilles wasn't a paladin

>>93206085
Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Greater Invisiblity, Shadow Blade, Blur, Boomer Blade/Green-Flame Blade coupled with War Caster, Find Familiar...

Still not remotely as good as a fucking Battlemaster or Echo Knight, how it's in the same tier is beyond me, but it's more than just shield

>>93206097
>lists spells eldritch bitch can't even get

>>93206103
Anon...

>>93206103
are you retarded

>>93206105
>>93206106
>b-but you can get one of them per average campaign!!!!!!!

>>93205894
Fighter gets tired less, but Paladin has those crucial big damage rounds and can heal and can cast spells and has auras, ultimately, it’s all about the aesthetic

>>93206109
Your campaigns don't go past level 7 is all I'm reading here, desu.

>>93206115
Aura is so important and underrated. Saving throws don't scale well without proficiency.

>>93206125
They really don't. The fat that a level 1 fighter has a +2 in dex saves and a level 20 fighter has a +2 in dex saves is kind of silly.

>>93206121
as you should, because most campaigns don't

>>93206132
Then your opinion is a teenager.

>>93206106
>>93206105
nta but pretending Greater Invisibility is an actual reason to play eldritch knight is fucking retarded. that's a 4th level spell, EK only gets those at level goddamn NINETEEN, so even if youi're in a high level campaign going all the way to tier 4, you're STILL probably never gonna get it, because you'd somehow be playing three entire levels where the Wizard has daily Wishes by that point. At level goddamn 19 it's not even goodd, there's better ways to get Advantage on attacks and all the godlike shit you're fighting at that level has blindsight or true seeing and shit to counter low-level spells like that

>>93206137
I thought it was 3rd level, my bad mate. :)

>>93205932
I do remember that Warlord--it's a very specific intersection of the two editions. I think my main criticism of it still comes down to the slaving of everything to the zone of control, which I feel you could pretty trivially remove by replacing every reference to it with "that you can see within 30 feet of you". And, yes, that does actually matter--the way the feature is written, you can only exercise your zone of control on the first turn of combat, and it ends immediately if you're incapacitated. One mind blast from a mind flayer is enough to turn off most of your subclass features for the rest of the encounter.

There are also a few other things to it that 5e doesn't really typically do, such as reactions with no triggers and a lot of numerical modifiers and bonuses--including one explicit mention of a stacking +1 bonus being "in addition to flanking". And I'm pretty sure nothing else in 5e lets you double your proficiency bonus on all attacks against a given target. But those differences from standard 5e functions might be the very reason that nothing else comes as close to the feel of the 4e archetype.

That said, I have tried to make sure I have a decent number of support options available to the fighter, with aptitudes like Call to Action, Camaraderie, Flash of Genius, Inspiring Recitation, Levelheaded, Supporting Tactics, and Tactician. Admittedly, it doesn't perfectly replicate all aspects of the Warlord--and you can't even take all those aptitudes on the same character--so there's probably more work I could do to make support fighters more of a niche.

>>93205894
were you in a coma for the last 8 years?

>>93206136
Bad analogy

>>93206161
"Uhm acthually your analogy against me ith bad!"

Your DnD career has not yet matured, it is still growing, when you have played higher level DnD you'll understand.

>>93206077
>Why is Eldritch Knight in the highest tier?
It's better than all the ones below it.
>Why is Cavalier in the lowest tier?
It's worse than all the ones above it.
>Why is Samurai lower than Eldritch Knight?
It isn't as good.

I fucking LOVE casting Shield 3 times a day, bros.

>>93206172
>It's better than all the ones below it.
This is blatantly untrue.
>It's worse than all the ones above it.
Again, blatantly untrue.
>It isn't as good.
Again, blatantly untrue.

Provide reasoning.

>>93206172
samurai is better than a fighter who can cast shield

>>93205894
Battlemaster does way more damage, both melee and ranged (which Paladin can't effectively do at all), and it's nuking ability comes back on a short rest

Eldritch Knight is tankier from shield/abrorb elements and has find familiar, invisibility or misty step, and can take a couple useful cantrips like mage hand

>>93206194
paladin has aura of protection which is the actual reason you play the class instead of being a cleric druid or wizard

>>93206204
>instead of 3 classes that are completely different
lol

>>93206204
I didn't say Fighter was overall better, I was just telling that anon what they do better by comparison

So 4 Fighters or 4 Paladins, who can *kill* the most problems? At level 20, or tier 3+ play, the answer is probably Paladin, but what about levels 1-13, what about tier 2 play?
Fighters have the easiest time stacking a mass of Superiority dice (and if you include UA revised archetypes, they also have access to unique manoeuvres for each subclass like the Cavalier’s Warding and the Monster Hunter’s Willpower) so they can go from Short Rest to Short Rest, operating at like 80% class features for the entire day, while Paladins run out eventually

>>93206217
Pure paladin party would be ass, with four fighters you can at least make two melee dps and two ranged dps characters

>>93206217
There's no point having more than 1 Paladin because the aura doesn't stack.

>>93206234
man go marry the fuckin' aura since it's clear you like it so much

Why does the Ranger still exist? Like, what is it supposed to do? It's a nature-themed half-martial half-caster half-skilljockey that uses bows? What part of this can't just be done better by a Rogue-Druid multiclass?

How do you fix the Champion fighter? You literally just have one mediocre trait until level 15, because nothing else it gets is worth giving a fuck about.

Meanwhile Battlemaster, Cavalier, Echo Knight drown in useful shit more levels than not.

If you had to fix Champions, what would you do?

>>93206244
It would have been better off as just a fighter subclass desu

>>93206245
Give it an extra attack at level 7.

>>93206255
That might be overtuned.

>>93206091
Sorcadin isn't enough better than Paladin to get its own tier. If you compare them level by level it paints a clearer pictures. Levels 1-7 are the same as you go Paladin for the aura. Levels 8-13 are slightly in the Paladin's favor due to them always being ahead in either ASI or leveled spells, while also being ahead in DPR. Levels 14-19 are heavily in the Sorcadin's favor due to superior leveled spells and spell slots and metamagic. Level 20 is in the Paladins' favor because their capstone is good. For what it's worth, I think Sorcadin is slightly better overall but they just aren't different enough to be listed separately.

>>93206191
Are they?

Eldritch Knight:
>advantage on their first attack every turn from flyby owl
>decent out of combat utility with familiar, mage hand, invisibility, misty step, fly
>can save their asses with shield or absorb elements
>anime teleport when action surging
>sending is an evocation spell, so they make booty calls during a dungeon crawl

Samurai:
>gets a limited full turn of advantage
>free wisdom save proficiency
>better at smoothtalking
>anime "at death's door" comeback (but only at really high level)

Samurai doesn't look bad, but Eldritch Knight is really nice and does something most Fighters can't

>>93206245
The braindead option should never be the best, desu, but it could be a bit better
If you really wanted to overtune it, they could have all their features just be a feat. Like 3e fighters.

>>93206280
Fighters already get a feat instead of a feature baseline at most levels.

>>93206156
That is primarily why I showed you that subclass. It was clearly the work of someone finally being done with the “close enoughs” and deciding that They will be the one who will actually port over the Warlord, with no regards for edition balance.
Part of what makes Anon’s Bullshit feel like it lacks the Warlord, is, as you said, the inability to go full support as a fighter, or hell, as a Rogue (remember Mastermind?). Those aptitudes are nice, but I think a subclass dedicated to having access to as many aptitudes and support features for Martials as possible is how you get a Warlord. And again, Warlord doesn’t need to be a Fighter Subclass, Rogue has a “Commander” subclass with Mastermind. The Commander doesn’t need to be the guy who makes the most attacks, if the Commander is reduced to swinging his own sword, it means the party is either all dead, or so incompetent, from a martial arts standpoint, that one has to wonder why the player picked the Commander and stacked so many support features.

>>93206262
Compared to what the other subclasses get? No.

>>93206191
>Samurai gets advantage on one turn three times per long rest
>Eldritch Knight gets advantage for ten turns with a single cast of Shadow Blade
Yeah really confusing

>>93206273
A goblin can just choose to stab the owl that is pissing them all off, it's justifiable in-universe and mechanically and then it is gone until you resummon it with a spell slot and a decent amount of gold. It has extremely limited spell slots for that stuff, you only get a decent amount at level 7 onward and even then it's limited. Plus you only get to take one more than a single spell outside of Abjuration and Evocation (all evocations spells are useless for Fighters) at level 8. The subclass is just using shield as a fighter.

Champions get temp HP with that sick ass advantage, and wisdom saving throw proficiency is HUGE.

>>93206299
Alright, when and if you get that at level 8 onward you can roll the dice, keep in mind if you wanna keep concentration you'll need war caster while the samurai can take GWM or whatever he wants, and of course you need to make sure you're fighting in the dark (so hopefully your whole party has darkvision like almost all enemies) and you're not outdoors

Samurai fucking sucks. What a weird hill to die on.

>>93206306
>A goblin can just choose to stab the owl that is pissing them all off, it's justifiable in-universe
If they waste their turn holding their action, sure. Otherwise the owl can easily fly behind corners and into the air.

>The subclass is just using shield as a fighter
It isn't at all. You just ignored everything else.

>>93206321
So does EK.

>>93206325
Double check how the help action works, the owl has to be in their face when the attack is made. That said, even if it did work how you think it did, an enemy readying the attack action with its bow is perfectly viable, making Find Familiar amount to no more than sucking up one attack. Which is what shield does.

>writes entire paragraph about the EK
>ends it with a small comment about EK using shield
>"you just ignored everything else but the shield aspect!"
???

>>93206320
Eldritch Knight gets Shadow Blade at 7th level. War Caster gives you Booming Blade opportunity attacks and you would take it anyway. Any area not explicitly lit is considered dim light. Outside is considered dim light or darkness from sunset to sunrise. Levels 3-4, EK has advantage on every attack due to Find Familiar whereas Samurai only has advantage on three. Levels 5-6 Samurai has advantage on six attacks, EK has advantage on every other attack. Level 7 onward, EK has Shadow Blade and Samurai can never compete again.

>>93205935
>>93206077
I like your tier lists. Do Cleric next please.

>>93206361
the familiar will be dead in perpetuity if you try to use it for attack aid actions, so EK doesn't have advantage on shit

most battlefields are brightly lit, so nobody cares about shadow blade

>>93206370
Meant to quote this one >>93206063

>>93206346
>the owl has to be in their face when the attack is made
No it doesn't.
>Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage.
>>If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage.

Also
You:
>The subclass is just using shield as a fighter
Me:
>>The subclass is just using shield as a fighter
>It isn't at all. You just ignored everything else.
You:
>hur dur I didn't say that

Last (you). Why are you so obnoxious?

>>93206374
>most battlefields are brightly lit
NTA but you are absolutely fucking wrong. Gloomstalker Ranger is insane because most dungeons are not lit at all and evening is considered darkness. I've been DMing for years and it's surprising how few things in the published books are explicitly lit up.

>>93206361
You don't get a second level outside of Abjuration/Evocation until level 8 though. I guess you could give up the old spell, but sucks that you have to make a tradeoff. As for light levels, you are probably never going to see a DM who tells you that it is dimly lit, it's either darkness because there's no explicit lighting, or it is lit in which case it is light. Find Familiar will just be killed in combat because it's useless, and you better hope you never find a weapon that's useful because enjoy not using it because you have to cast Shadow Blade, whereas the Samurai is enjoying his +2 weapon that deals an extra 1d4 fire or whatever the fuck I'm making shit up.

>>93206413
But then it's darkness in which case you better hope your WHOLE party has darkvision like every single enemy encounter does.
>>93206390
Oh okay, well then the goblin just readies an attack with his bow, or just runs after it because they aren't zombies that just attack what's in front if it without a HINT of tactics. Even a complete retard would know that the bird is an issue and to just kill it easily. The other stuff you said was just outright lies.

>>93205809
>>93205745
The Echo Knight has PAM and uses all these tricks so they can hold someone with sentientl and strike them constantly when they cant move. I kinda have built a character around greats sword so I might stick with it but thanks for the advice.

>>93205809
The Echo stun locks. Moves Echo in range, it has Sentinel and prevents them from moving. Swaps to attack as need and they cant follow.

>>93205809
Why Menacing over Feint? Feint seems awesome since its gives Advantage and extra damage. Trip does seem tasty tho...

>>93206370
0: Peace
1: Arcana, Forge, Life, Light, Moon, Nature, Night, Order, Trickery, Twilight
2: Blood, Community, Death, Grave, Knowledge, Tempest, War

>>93206445
bro this is actual ass

>>93206445
>tempest that low
Destructive Wrath makes their AoEs, especially when upcast, the most powerful in the game. A fourth level Shatter, Thunderwave, or Call Lightning does 40 damage on a failed save. For level 5 spells, Destructive Wave deals 5d6+30 damage in a gigantic AoE that doesn't friendly fire

>war that low
At level six, twice per short rest they can turn a miss into a hit. Without a GWM or SS user in the party, that's like 40 extra single target damage per short rest you can deal as a reaction.

>>93206436
You're crediting PAM's power to Echo Knight's power. PAM is the thing that's letting him do all that efficient action economy. Echo Knight actually gums up the action economy, while providing a bit of extra safety in the proxy attack.

Consider an Echo Knight with PAM and Sentinel. They place the Echo in range of an enemy. The enemy leaves the Echo's range, provoking an opportunity attack. They are hit and locked in place, and can not reach the Fighter.

Consider a regular Fighter with PAM and Sentinel. They stand 15ft away from the enemy. The enemy enters the Fighter's 10ft range and provokes an opportunity attack due to PAM. They are hit and locked in place, and can not reach the Fighter.

>>93206487
How does war work like that?

>>93206413
a fucking torch is enough to make something brightly lit you retard

>>93206497
War God's Blessing
They take a reaction after seeing someone's roll, and add +10 to it
If you wait until someone rolls a 3-7 on a d20 when using power attacks, they're basically guaranteed to have missed. But they're also basically guaranteed to hit with a +10 bonus to that.

>>93206517
It has to be on your attack, I believe, but wouldn't that power be credited to GWM/SS?

>>93206526
>>93206517
Ignore, I read the wrong one.

>>93206526
No lol. That's what the level 6 feature is, you can use it on other people

>>93205935
>>93206063
>>93206445
Are the tiers ordered? Like in the Fighter Tier 1, are you saying Arcane Archer > Samurai > Scofflaw?

>>93205894
there is if you want to be an archer

>>93206537
No. Subclasses in the same tier are roughly equal.

>>93206445
Do barbarian, I have to see it

>>93206306
>Plus you only get to take one more than a single spell outside of Abjuration and Evocation
Anon...
>You know three 1st-level wizard spells of your choice, two of which you must choose from the abjuration and evocation spells on the wizard spell list.
>The spells you learn at 8th, 14th, and 20th level can come from any school of magic

Also, do you not know how flyby works? Enemies have to hold their actions to kill familiars, they can just fly behind the party and down a different hall lol. Not every (or even most) fights are going to have a bunch of goblins and kobolds with archers, and if the roper you're fighting wastes its entire turn making a single attack to kill your familiar, that's a win.

>>93206559
0: Giant, Zealot
1: Ancestral Guardian, Beast, Juggernaut, Totem Warrior, Wild Magic
2: Battlerager, Berserker, Storm Herald

>>93206565
>all fights take place in tiny rooms where the familiar can do that
lol

>>93206565
"Anon..." he said, as he described why I was right. I said that you can only take one spell outside of Abj/Evo, and you can only take one. UNTIL level 8, as I said, you could get Shadow Blade at level 7, but you'd have to REPLACE the spell you chose outside of Abj/Evo at level 3, which is shitty.

And yeah, I'm aware of how flyby works, but are you aware of how enemies work? They aren't glued to the spot they start in, they can just go run after the owl or just fucking shoot it with a bow, they have ranged weapons, holding their action to do so is literally such a small effort that is entirely unnecessary because they can just move to see it, but yes, they can hold their action no problems.

But you're right about not every fight being against goblins, but it's pretty rare that the enemies you fight will have literally no options for fighting at a distance, and even if they don't, who cares? They have legs, they can just move after it. And if it DOES suck up an attack, you're right! That is a win! But you know what spell does that? Shield. That spell I said the Eldritch Knight is entirely.

>>93206582
Zealot is busted for sure but how is Giant better than Totem? Bear alone should push Totem to Tier 0.

>>93206583
Most do, yes. And if you're fighting outdoors, trees exist. Where exactly are you fighting that has zero cover?

>>93206582
I knew it would be good, and by GOD I was right. Totem below Giant.

>>93206597
I'm just imagining the owl zipping all over the battlefield at mach ten trying to avoid enemies as they all stumble around like fools having no idea where it went because this retard forgot enemies have object permanence

>>93206597
why are eldritch knight copers even a thing

>>93206613
>no my subclass that is just nothing but shield is actually really good!!!!!!!!!!!! it can summon a shitty bird that dies on the second round of combat!!!!!!!!!!! it can fly dude!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>93206588
>UNTIL level 8, as I said
I can't tell if you're really bad at writing or you just expect me to believe you when you blatantly try to backpedal.

>they can just go run after the owl
No they can't. Are you aware that you cannot move through the space of a hostile creature?

>>93206582
>Wild Magic respect
I'm convinced you know what you're talking about now. >>93206550 tiers not being ordered makes a huge difference.

>>93206635
you watched a man put totem warrior in A tier and not S tier, below giant, and were convinced he knew what hew as talking about

>>93206601
>the literal only viable ranged barb, who gets reliable bonus damage AND can switch damage types on a dime
>worse than totem
Thanks for the laugh.

>>93206643
You're an idiot. Bear isn't even the correct choice.

>>93206653
I never said it was, and it doesn't really matter, as long as one of them is.

>>93206582
Warlock please.

>>93206625
Uhm, what? I'm so confused as to how enemies not being able to move through enemy spaces is supposed to prevent you from running after a creature?

>>93206683
I was going to ask if you were retarded, but reading through this thread already answered that for me.

>>93206668
0: Celestial, Fathomless, Fiend, Genie, Undead
1: Archfey, Hexblade
2: Great Old One, Undying

>>93206683
nta but the tumble action lets you do that as an action or a bonus action

>>93206696
That's not a thing in 5e.

>>93206700
DMG on P272

>>93206683
because there's only one enemy and he already engaged the entire party in melee :)

>>93206693
Also, this is my last post for tonight. I haven't replied to any one asking about opinions, just clarification. You guys have just been arguing with each other and it's been fun to read.

>>93206690
Ad hominem, I'm invested in this internet argument we're having mate. Don't put your dick away so we can't keep comparing, and insult me, I wanna see how big it is.

Now defend your case, what the fuck does not being able to move through enemy spaces have to do with chasing an unrelated creature that is behind a tree, or down a hallway?

>>93206701
>DMG optional rules

>>93206714
tbf if your dm wouldn't allow it, don't play with that dm

>>93206707
>I haven't replied to any one asking about opinions
Based. Sleep well anon.

>>93206711
what a fascinating turn these two guys' argument took, if i wasn't already hooked, i am now

>>93206693
>Archfey above Hexblade
Holy fucking shit you're so retarded

>>93206729
he said that they weren't ordered within tiers

>>93206734
wtf does that even mean? If the tiers aren't ordered then how is it a tier list?

>>93204022
>Is everyone planning for this and then switching over once it drops?
My groups are sticking with the old for now but I think that's just the guys who play druid and paladin almost exclusively sperging it about their 'nerfs' (they now have to use their other spells and abilities sometimes)

>>93206736
nono as in each option within the same tier isn't ordered, like, he didn't order Archfey/Hexblade

>>93206739
To be fair the paladin nerf looks absolutely dog shit, I would never want to play one again

>>93206740
How the fuck are Hexblade and Archfey even in the same tier?

>>93206746
iuno, most of his takes were shit, look at his fighter tier list: >>93205935

>>93206746
>>93206750
I linked the wrong one, here: >>93206063

>>93205809
Why would I want PAM and GWM? (PAM is pole arms master yes?)

>>93206653
>Bear isn't even the correct choice.
What

>>93206756
They're overtuned as fuck. Those two along with sentinel are the big three for busted feats that if you don't take, you're basically gimping yourself (which frankly is really sad if you have any desire to play something else)

>>93206746
Hexblade is busted as a multiclass dip but is kind of shit as an actual Warlock. Archfey gets Sleep for early levels, Plant Growth and Greater Invisibility are really strong, and none of its specific features are bad at all. Hexblade gets extra armor, Shield spell, and the Curse and that's pretty much it.

>>93206751
I don't know what Scofflaw or Banneret are but that looks correct to me.

>>93206711
Anon. You put it in cover behind your allies. This is beyond trivial in any indoor environment. Even outdoors, you can have it fly through a window, above a roof, underneath the lip of a castle wall, behind and up a tree, in the crow's nest of a ship, etc, etc, etc. It has 60ft of fly speed and immunity to opportunity attacks, you can make it work.
Sure, if you're fighting in a wide open plain against archers, it's going to get shot. But Hypnotic Pattern is not useless just because it doesn't work against undead and constructs.

>>93206773
The creature can just move AROUND your ally, there's nothing FORCING them to move THROUGH. I'd say the vast majority of encounters have access to ranged options, in which case it only takes a single enemy readying his action to shoot the bird.

But you've got to remember, the bird needs to use that 60 ft. VERY well if it wants to pull off this absurd display of maneuverability you're describing, it has to use its movement speed to get OUT of this magical spot where it won't be attacked, to the fighter who is attacking, then BACK to the magical cover spot.

An enemy? Let's assume your DM has banned readied actions for some reason to make your scenario work, all an enemy has to do is just b-line it straight to the bird, which most enemies that don't have ranged options are probably good at doing.

>>93206750
Actually his takes are pretty fucking based. Wizard in bottom tier is wild.

>>93206791
Come clean. Can you read? Or do you just refuse to?

>>93206799
I responded to each and every argument you made, now quit putting your cock away to insult me like a bitch, whip it out so we can keep comparing.

>>93206796
I like saying that retarded takes are based as a joke too but that's all it is in the end, a joke.

I have a shitty group member who is mad the players have secrets. He had secrets and had even bigger secrets last game, but now other players have interesting secrets and he's mad, he says secrets go against "the point of D&D." My whole character was based around fun secrets and now I have nothing to do. The DM is mad but is coworkers with the guy who wants to play his power fantasy.

>>93204158
Only looked at the ranger, I liked the Pursuit die mechanic, really fits the thematic of being a hunter. Any reasoning regarding making that and the spellcasting depending on Int instead of Wisdom?
On my own homebrew I was hesitant on giving currated maneuvers, but ultimately decided against it, and just made them part of the fighter features and expanded on them a bit; and focus on just buffing/expanding all of the other classes own features.
Still, that all seems like a lot of work you did, with good thoughts behind it , I'll read that up when I can

>>93206194
In what world does the battlemasters 4x1d8 do more damage than a couple of smites?

>>93206808
What happened here is you claimed a subclass was better than another, then an anon explained a very powerful option to you that you weren't aware of. Then you sperged for a dozen straight posts coming up with the perfect scenarios to counter it.

How will an enemy get through a Paladin and Barbarian hogging the ten foot wide hallway? How will a melee enemy hit something 20ft above it and behind cover? How will a spellcaster fire bolt something out of its line of sight? It won't.

>>93206823
If you want damage, you use Riposte and Precision Attack. Also Fighters have Action Surge.

>>93206762
But you can’t use PAM and GWM at the same time you’d need to keep swapping.

>>93206845
>Then you sperged for a dozen straight posts coming up with the perfect scenarios to counter it.
He said, then sperging about the perfect scenario to make it work in the first place.

I just wanna point out by the by, the argument doesn't exist in the first place because once again, any single enemy can just ready his action to attack it once it uses its 60 ft. of movement to get OUT of cover, use the help action, and then get BACK into cover. I've just been humoring him that even if an enemy didn't ready his attack, they can just go and kill it because you aren't going to always have the perfect owl sized hidey hole covered by an army of allied barbarians to protect said hole.

>>93206863
They both work on halberds and glaives

>>93206868
He's probably talking about the bonus action attacks, in which case yeah, who cares though, that's such a good problem to have.

>>93206866
>they can just go and kill it because you aren't going to always have the perfect owl sized hidey hole covered by an army of allied barbarians to protect said hole.
This cope is just getting embarrassing.

>>93206886
The cope is the fact that I need to argue with you in the parallel reality where enemies can't just ready their action to attack it once it comes out. Again, just humoring you that even in your alternate reality where your DM banned readied actions, I still win.

>>93206889
>Enemy does nothing on their turn, holding their action to attack the Familiar
>Familiar takes the dodge action and does nothing
>Enemy lost their action for free
???

>>93206889
Imagine you're fighting a Yochlol and a couple drow spellcasters. There, I even gave you some enemies that actually can attack it when it flies out from cover.
Why the literal hell would they waste their entire second turn killing an owl? If they do that, then good. That's literally the worst possible action they can take that isn't blatant sandbagging.

You're trying to act like every fight is in some giant open area with a bunch of archers who are totally fine wasting their entire turn making a single attack against the least threatening target.
On some level, I'm sure even you know you're being ridiculous. All this coping because your favorite subclass was "insulted"

>>93206923
How could Samurai be anyone's favorite subclass?

>>93206889
>fighting a dragon
>it holds it's action to bite an owl
>you gave your entire party a surprise round midcombat

SotDL fixes Help by tying it to an Int check

>>93206245
use the 5.5e version

>>93206938
>it's action
Minor grammar mistake detected. I'm sorry anon, but you instantly lose this argument.

>>93206914
Usually as a DM I just say "The goblin readies an action" instead of explaining exactly what they're doing, if you figure it out then good on you, but it'll still just chase it down with ease and kill it on its next turn.
>>93206923
>spellcasters
I imagine they'll just cast an AoE spell to kill it and probably not even lose anything in the process as they hit some of the party as well, there's no scenario where I wouldn't be able to kill the owl unless your magic scenario involving a special owl hidey hole existed covered by your allies who are all guarding it so the enemy can't move through it.
>>93206938
Or it just uses its fire breath which has a range equal to the owl's speed, or maybe the dragon isn't fighting you alone because dragons usually have a following, and they can take care of the owl for the dragon because it's an owl, not an imp that goes invisible

>>93206959
>wasting action economy to kill a fucking owl
This really isn't going down any other way, my guy.

>>93206959
>probably not even lose anything
>there's no scenario where I wouldn't be able to kill the owl
lol

>>93207019
Yes, an owl that is providing them with an advantage on an attack every single turn is worth killing.

Your spell essentially boils down to "wastes an enemy's attack", in which case we go back to where this argument originated - That the Eldritch Knight subclass essentially is just the ability to cast 'shield'.

>>93207019
>seething and coping because his only non-shield class feature got neutralized with one action

>>93207026

and haste

>>93207030
They don't get haste until level 13.

>>93207026
>That the Eldritch Knight subclass essentially is just the ability to cast 'shield'.
EK's should have been a half-caster that was fully locked into two evocation and abjuration.

>>93207040
Evocation spells are useless for fighters tho desu

>>93207026
>it's totally worth it for a CR6+ monster to give up an entire turn to remove a source of advantage for the first of three attacks on one character
It's only worth it to you, because you're trying to use extreme mental gymnastics to win an argument about an option you weren't even aware of in the first place, and have no knowledge or experience of.

>>93207047
I have DM'd for fighters using find familiar and BEEN the fighter using find familiar, the fact that you think enemies can't just go and kill the owl is so detached from reality that it borders on delusion.

Early game, yes, it's fine for a goblin to go shoot the owl, it's no issue, it's just one arrow and your find familiar essentially just negated one arrow, congrats

Late game, I have severe doubts the owl is even going to be able to survive one round of combat against creatures of that fucking power level, you think they won't have the options to deal with an owl? get fucked lmao

>>93207046
yeah but they're cool. maybe instead pick one from abjuration/evocation, then one from the remaining schools?

>>93207062
Could also add more spells that aren't locked to those two schools, I don't know what school has the majority of self-buffs in it, but that one is pretty weird to not have included for EK's

>>93207059
Stop bullshitting. This entire "argument" started because an anon explained like five different things that an EK can do, and you zeroed in on the owl because you were shocked about the advanatage it gives.
You literally didn't know how help + flyby worked, and now you're larping like you were playing with one. LMAO. This entire thread is different people explaining to you how the rules work, and you backpedaling ad naseum.

For the record, it literally gets easier for an owl to survive at higher levels because of how much more opportunity cost something has for choosing to attack it. But you don't know or care.

speaking of EK, fey touched is busted

>take bless
>cast it at 2nd level
>lasts for the entirely of combat

its so solid

>>93207094
Better than haste desu. But it does take a feat.

>>93205702
stop with the game of telephone in here
just show the character sheet
it may literally just be you are doing it wrong at the table

>>93207059
>I have DM'd for fighters using find familiar and BEEN the fighter using find familiar

>>93206346
>the owl has to be in their face when the attack is made

Maybe you thought it was bad because you didn't read the rules and massively nerfed it. Or maybe you're a lying no-games?

>>93207085
>because you were shocked about the advantage it gives
Ah yes I remember being like "OMG WHAT, IT CAN DO WHAT?" as opposed to just arguing with you like we've been.
>and you zeroed in on the owl
Yeah, you completely ignored every single other point about the EK I made, so naturally I argued with the only thing you actually engaged with instead of ad hominem.

Also don't be a samefag man, that's just cringe. At least when I've argued with you I haven't pretended to be multiple different people.

>it literally gets easier for an owl to survive at higher levels
Ah yes, at higher levels there're no AoEs which make it literally no loss, no damage auras, enemies aren't more intelligent and can't perform more intelligent actions that negate the dumbass bird you think is so fucking incredible despite how mediocre it is, there's no breath weapons, and there's definitely no mooks that can do what early game enemies can do

>>93207114
I didn't think it was bad, I think that it wraps back to your and my original topic of discussion, that being the EK being nothing but the shield spell. Which Find Familiar essentially is a discount version of, because all it will do is get killed (soaking up an enemy's attack, like shield does)

>>93205359
crazy items are indeed the best.
i once got ahold of what amounted to a cosmic trash can
ended up getting some advanced calculus scrawled on scratch papers. pushed way farther ahead in mathematics than any sod in a medieval-ish setting had any right to.
that dm was good about making things intersting

>>93204732
you ever hear of tree tokens?

>>93207121
>there're no AoEs
There are, but you're very naive if you think that every fight will feature them and you'll always be able to hit some random flying creature way above them or completely behind cover.
>no damage auras
These are absurdly rare. You're probably thinking of stuff that activates on hit, like a salamander.
>enemies aren't more intelligent and can't perform more intelligent actions that negate the dumbass bird you think is so fucking incredible despite how mediocre it is
You couldn't think of a third point and just started throwing a pissyfit.

Judging by that, and the fact that you started blatantly lying about how you'd played and DM'd for it ten responses after being taught how it works, it's time to stop.

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>>93207207
>There are, but you're very naive if you think that every fight will feature them and you'll always be able to hit some random flying creature way above them or completely behind cover.
"The drow cumcaster readies an action."
(now before you go "then I'll just not have the owl fly out", the drow's action isn't to attack it once it sees it, it is to cast an AoE spell centered on YOU, the FIGHTER, under the pretense that the owl takes its action on its turn. you figure out what that means. It's only as fair as your PC magically knowing what the drow's readied action is, no?)
>These are absurdly rare. You're probably thinking of stuff that activates on hit, like a salamander.
It's just one example of many, and it exists, albeit rare
>You couldn't think of a third point
What about the third point right after?

Here's an image of my Roll20 right now, one of my players (not a fighter, but he mostly uses it for the party's barbarian or rogue in combat), funnily enough, he is literally using an owl as you can see from the stat block. But feel free to just act like I don't play to serve your argument.

As I am a poor east Euro and realized commissioning art for every single spell I know would cost hundreds, especially so I've methodically started, so here is random AI slop I've been making in order to one day have a spellbook.

https://imgur.com/a/GAHyeCL

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>>93206236
divine grace has been the defining paladin feature for 24 years bro, and even all the way back in ad&d paladins had bonuses to saves as a class feature

>>93207375
Bro these look awesome. I couldn't care less that it's AI, are you gonna make more?

>>93207401
Yeah, been aiming at making an entire spellbook one day, but takes time. I underestimated how long it takes to make a good picture with proper spell name.
Aiming to first get to rank 4 spells, as most people reach those, and there are dozens of them. Druid currently, so will start with those. We run a campaign in which we can learn new spells, thus the variety. These I got always prepared, so I made them first. Now starting the druid-specific ones.

>>93207419
Where will you upload them? I might keep an eye on it.

>>93207421
No idea, to be honest, haven't thought about it until you asked me now. What would be most convenient, as cloud links change, do imgur links change if more is added, I could make an acc there and dump into a single place, or make a Notion site.

>>93207443
Imgur links stay the same as far as I know, so it'd be as easy as bookmarking it if you're cool with someone doing that.

>>93207455
Absolutely. I am very happy that someone liked them instead of just calling me a fag for using AI. I will make an acc now and permalink, then add to the album.
Here it is. Also, Imgur albums and pic management are ass. I hope they update properly in the same permalink if I add more.

https://imgur.com/a/vsUw3m5

If it does not work, maybe I'll use it as community posts, look for:
https://imgur.com/user/Ringspecies/posts

>>93204106
Something with lightning resistance.

>>93207543
Thanks man, these are sweet, and the text being all fucked up honestly? Looks good, because every spellbook is SUPPOSED to be unreadable and in the wizard's own unique language, of which makes sense that it'd be somewhat similar to their native tongue.

>>93207584
No problem. I will probably be popping new pics daily or at least very often.

Is there something like betteroll20 for shard? I'm going to play there as cleric and it's hard for me to imagine putting all the spells in cleric spell book by hand one my one. Or maybe there is some method to do it in bulk.?

>>93207722
What's betteroll20?

>>93207797
Basically bunch of scripts that make roll20 better. Like integration with 5e tools

>>93208051
Oh wow, what does it all do?

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Do you also hate it when flavor forces you to play a shit weak character?

Who cares what some redditor says Anon. Live life outside of that nonsense

>>93208236
Who cares what some redditor says Anon. Live life outside of that nonsense

>>93208236
Guy is a tard and a whiny min/maxer. He's playing a level 1 peace cleric dip, and if he really wanted dissonant whispers he could give up arms of hadar


Hes the "I can't get GWM and PAM and Sentinel and a +2 in STR without going into Vuman, so I'm forced to be a Vuman every time!" head ass nigga.

>>93206292
Yeah, it's definitely in my notes at this point. For what it's worth, Marshal is also one of the planned PrCs and would be intended for access through fighter, though I do also want sure that I give baseline fighter more of those options.

>>93206821
You know, we've used Int ranger at our table for so long that I actually had to stop and think about that for a second. There were a couple of reasons that we first put that into place, but one of the big ones is the language around rangers tends to lean a bit more on how they study their foes and the world, contrasting with druid's focus on being naturally attuned to things. It also served to differentiate ranger from druid a bit more, the same way that paladin being Cha-based differentiates it from cleric. We've found that the Int-based nature expert has been a good conceptual niche for ranger, and so have been generally happy with it--but the change wasn't really related to balance in any way, so there's no reason not to revert it if you prefer Wisdom ranger.

>>93208236
If a minmax build works you have a shitty campaign.

>>93208323
What does this mean? Why would a minmax build NOT work?

I would say if you have a shitty build that you like and it doesn't work you have a shitty campaign, but why would a minmax build working make the campaign shitty?

>>93208332
minmax means to over prepare or build more power than is necessary, to minimize any weaknesses and maximize any strengths

in a video game, code is code, you can overlevel a boss or use a busted combo.

in DND, the DM is just going to take on 100+ HP, give it damage resistance + 6 mooks than he was before, so there isn't a point to it.


if a player steam rolls every encounter thanks to his build, the DM made a shitty campaign.

>>93205343
Sounds like Dungeon Crawl classics' level 0 gimmick

>>93208236
I can kind of relate. Playing a pure tempest cleric is so much worse than taking a 2 level dip isn't funny.

>>93208406
>comparing pure tempest cleric to aberrant mind sorc with peace cleric dip

>send assassin to kill a one of the player in their sleep
>the party alll sleeps in seperate rooms
>player is caugh off guard
>he fails every single save and attack roll
>assassin kills him
>assassin doesn't confirm the kill, but just leaves out the window
>player fails all three death saves
>character dies
>no one finds out until the morning

is this unfair?

>>93208587
>Attack roll
You mean the fuckwit had the presence of mind to fight back, but not yell for help or otherwise signal distress?

>>93208587
Why did you send an assassin after the player?

>>93208587
You were fairer than I would have been mind you that player is going to be seething and might try derailing the campaign with his new character.

>>93208596
Yes, every opportunity to escape but choosing to fight.

>>93208609
Just an online game I played a year ago, I just remembered. Me (player) and the rest of the party were doing stupid shit and catching the attention of nobles and other important people, and what we were doing was against their interests. they had sent thugs, and we took care of them, so things escalated.

>>93208613
Yes, this is what happened. I thought it was fair. We should have had our guard up but we didn't.

The player threw a fit and quit the game, and took his friend with. DM said he would look for other players but that lost steam quickly and the game eventually died. It was Storm king's thunder

>>93208642
Did the DM make it clear that the PC was going to die? Like those hints like "Are you sure you want to fight him?" and "You have heard that these walls are thin, you could call out", etc...

>>93208654
>Did the DM make it clear that the PC was going to die?
For me, it was clear. There was an assassin in that player's room trying to kill him.
>Like those hints like "Are you sure you want to fight him?"
No.
>"You have heard that these walls are thin, you could call out"
No.

>>93208587
I have done a similar scenario in one of my campaigns when a character got embroiled in politics he didn't fully understand. He specifically mentioned turning in early and went to their rooms alone while the rest of the party was meeting with another contact. But his first response was to cast the loudest spell possible and fireball centered on self which drew lots of attention to his location.

>>93208672
I didn't mean those two exactly, just stuff LIKE that. Players are ALWAYS stupid, in those sorts of situations, you need to make sure your players are AWARE that they will fucking die if they do it. It's a bit metagame-y, but... nobody wants their PC to die unless it is a blaze of glory.

>>93208700
For example, one of my games recently they were going through this compound FILLED with enemies, but they were all attending a ritual so they could pretty easily navigate through it, with just a few little fights (still a challenge), instead of a fuck tonne of HUGE fights (literally impossible).

One of them was trying to escape when the party holed themself up in a room so they could cheese an encounter, they wanted to go alert the people taking the ritual to grab help... I said to my players. "He's going to grab the entire compound, and you will be swarmed by DOZENS of agents at once.", and they were very aware. One player went to go the opposite direction and I was like "Are you sure? The rogue is getting away, and he WILL alert the entire compound of our presence.".

What is happening with the new edition and how will it be different? I haven't been laying attention.

>>93208700
>It's a bit metagame-y, but... nobody wants their PC to die unless it is a blaze of glory.

Yea, but like, it wasn't hidden to the rest of the players. OOC We were all ready to jump into the fight as soon as we heard a loud boom or a cry for help or anything, but the player never did anything, so we just sat on our hands watching him die. Even his bud thought he was an idiot.

>It's a bit metagame-y, but... nobody wants their PC to die unless it is a blaze of glory.
Yea, no one wanted to tell him how to play the game or say anything like "aren't you gonna call for help?" so we all just sat and waited

>>93208696
Yes, exactly. I forget if he was a bard or a warlock, but I remember he had magic and a rapier. But he never screamed help or do anything to alert us.

>>93208713
I feel that but I think in the end, I still think it was fair, and the player was just an idiot.

>>93208745
Ain't really a new edition, it's more like 5.5E. It's just polishing some features and making other features woke.

Take the good, leave the bad.

Is it over for this game, DnDbros? I see the recent edition refers to the game world as a "multiverse". Your funkopop marvelification is beginning......
See
>>93206066
>>93206738

>>93208881
You new or something retard? The game has had multiverses for a long fucking while now, there's an entire spell about just getting an item from a different universe/material realm and travelling there, Dream of The Blue Veil.

>>93208881
D&D has always been a multiverse since Gygax first brought characters back as NPCs in later games. You're making a lot of assumptions about what the phrase means based on assumed context.

>>93208881
oh no, bad word...

who cares

>>93208778
>making other features woke.
How so?

>>93208881
It's most amusing to me that you think this is a bigger red flag than all the other supposed red flags that the game has seen over the decades.
Do you remember when they were calling it WoW edition?
Or Diablo edition before that?

>>93208981
I don't know I haven't read any of it, I just heard someone on Twitter say so and I've chosen to go along with it

>>93208981
They call the game world a "Multiverse" now. See that other thread that anons here are afraid to argue against the critics and stay here in their "safe space" instead. >>93208881

Did they say if the new PHB classes are backwards compatible with old subclasses? Because several of my players have subclasses that aren't getting updated in the new 2024 PHB and I'm not sure how I can convert them forward otherwise.

>>93208323
classic cope

>>93209000
IIRC in that long video where they talk about what's new in the PHB, they say you can use old subclasses with the new classes but can't bring updated subclasses to the old classes (doesn't matter since it seems like there's less of them, see Cleric)

>>93206445
Tempest gains Lightning Bolt in its bonus spells. Is this enough to move it up a tier, in your opinion?

>>93209056
No it doesn't.

>>93206757
Bear is the totem you take when your party has no plan B if you fall. Wolf is incredible in any melee-heavy party bar none. Eagle turns you into a Monk but the kind of Monk that can actually do its job of engaging the backline. Tiger's the only real dud in the lot.

>>93208996
Why should I care if it's called a multiverse? That's not going to stop me from raping elves and beheading shitskin orcs.

>>93209084
I'm saying if Lightning Bolt was added to tempest cleric's spells, anon

>>93209117
But it wasn't, though.

>>93209130
ok mr. breakfast eater

>>93209114
> Raping elves
> Beheading shitskin orcs
Wow edgy

>>93209187
>Killing pedestrians
>Raping lesbians
Let's just be friends

Charisma for warlocks makes sense because it's not like they're exerting any of their own power
every time they wanna cast something they've got to ask daddy to do it for them
charisma facilitates easier communication and thus a higher chance of getting what you want i.e. casting the spell

>>93209661
>every time they wanna cast something they've got to ask daddy to do it for them
you're thinking of clerics

>>93209661
>it's not like they're exerting any of their own power
It is, the patrons are just teachers.

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>>93209736
>no longer has a patron
>no longer has warlock powers

>>93209661
Warlocks know their spells. Warlocks cast their spells. Warlocks don't have to be with a patron to maintain their powers, they have earned their power and grow in power as they become more powerful. Warlocks don't actually need to serve a deity or have it constantly magic boost them and even so a cleric is itself getting stronger as it goes along. They however cast by exerting their will and presence upon the world rather than somehow being smarter which somehow makes wizards more powerful despite the fact they can know spells and can cast them irrelevant of 13 or 20 intelligence.

This has been solved for over 10 years Anon, why are you spreading misinformation?

>>93209824
warlocks do keep their powers without their patron, but their patron may come back to bite ya in the ass for screwing them.

>>93209840
gya gya gya anon
the example I gave left the warlock without any warlock abilities, just ranger ones

>>93209824
> Wyll
> Well written

>>93209877
Has greenwood even commented on this?
I think it depends on the setting whether a warlock keeps their powers when they no longer serve their patron

>>93209824
Gale is a wizard and he also lost (most of) his powers.

>>93209902
what?
he becomes a literal magic professor in his good ending in the epilogue

>>93209824
That's because it's forgotten realms. Forgotten realms also makes all wizards technically sorcerers.

>>93209913
I meant when you first meet him and he's level 1.

>>93209931
Brother, I was talking about epilogue good ending wyll

>>93209931
>>93209945
in the original post I mean
yes gale does become a magic professor
and wyll loses mizora, causing him to lose his warlock powers

>>93209961
Yeah I got you.
Wyll loses his powers in the end. Gale lost his powers at some point before the game's start.
Neither of those instances are really tied to mechanics for their classes, they're just fluff for drama.

>>93209997
all the characters become lvl 1 because of tadpole weakening them

>>93210017
Gale had already been weakened due to his whole Mystra drama.
Frog, shart and vampire didn't have any reason to be higher than level 1.

>>93210055
maybe you could make a case for lae but shart should've been something like a lvl 12 cleric since all her peers in the house of grief are around that level

Is there a better app that Wonderdraft for designing regional maps?

>>93206868
Right but I'm not using those I'm using a sword.

has anyone here tried to use gridless maps for combat?
I just played some wargame (Frostgrave) without using grids and measuring wasn't as annoying as I thought it'd be.