>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf>Optional Quixalted Exaltshttps://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file>4thchan Edition (4.2E)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XqjkwQIR38ov7uZVSZGpcjI0QCPIiFaQkVosZVlhGH8/>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYthttps://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51>collection of Exalted Hackshttps://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs>stuff that might be interestinghttps://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/Last thread: >>93246736 TQ: What's a story arc or campaign idea you could have run but never did, and why not?
>>93297170For me, I ran a campaign where the Sidereal ran a mixed group of Celestials around Creation solving high level Twists of Fate for about a year, but never got around to taking them into the planned arc in heaven. I just foreshadowed it until the game died because we'd hit Essence's endgame, fought the bullshit broken endgame boss using a mirror strategy to the PC's bullshit endgame broken one true build, and had nowhere upward to go with the system. It was up next, or the one after next, I forget. It's part of why I'm happy that the newer release solved the one true build soak thing a bit.
I've had a Nexus War arc inside my head for over a year now - a full on mass mercenary between the Guild, The splintered Council of Entities, Lookshy, Thorn's Ambassadors and an incoming Spirit Court.The catch is that few of the people living there are able to realize that there's a huge war rather than unusually busy month in Nexus. I'll never be able to fully realize this game because none of my players like Nexus.
What's your most ill-advised house rule that you use anyway?
>>93299694Scene long excellencies for ExVsWoD.
>>93300309That’s standard for ExWoD before revised and is a great house rule if you’re using revised. >>93299694I made Battlegroups in my ExWoD game too weak. I don’t mind the Exalts trashing armies in the thousands and giving the bird to Uncle Sam but I made it a little too easy and if I hadn’t already written War Charms for the system I’m using I would have adjusted it.
>>93295239>>93295112I’m the opposite. I prefer it where restoring the glories of the past is a matter of tremendous logistics, not some distant possibility. A Twilight going full Mr House or Emperor in the Unification Wars and building some meager restoration [which could become 60 such restorations which could snowball into a new technological era] is something I’d do and allow in any game. So whatever subtle difference is supposed to exist between 14 dice from Attribute 7/Ability 7 versus Attribute 3/Ability 4 with Excellence; I ignore outright. Yes your Solar can get the lights on. Yes you can build a small fleet of skyships. Yes you can build an Essence train connecting Nexus to your nascent city-state. You’ll just have a lot of problems getting through the logistics of that in the Second Age.
Can Solars shapeshift or is that just reserved for Lunars?
>>93300886Not natively. But there's nothing stopping them from doing it with sorcery, martial arts and artifacts.
>>93300569What is the duration of the Excelencias in revised?
>>93300951>>93300886As with using those things for divination it’s probably a lot less versatile. If I was to write a spell to shapeshift into animals I’d either make it one animal or small group of similar animals per Spell, or require setup like “By meditating for one hour in front of a bronze idol of the animal whose form you wish to take, you assume their form. This spell may only be used while the moon is in the sky and lasts until the following sunrise’. Both Celestial Circle obviously.
>>93301060Essence+1 turns. It’s not unusable IF you use Battlegroups but if you don’t use Battlegroup then 20+ of anything will kill any Exalt and that is very gay.
>>93300886Shapeshifting isn't a result of solar Essence. Was in one long-running exalted quest with a big titty protag where the QM said he'd allow one or two survival charms to do something like adding cat ears or a tail to her as a very small buff.
>>93300569I also allow WtD to see ephemeral beings.>>93300951Is there a shapeshifting spell? I know that martial arts have the gazelle carp.
>>93301487Homebrew one. Playing everything in Exalted by the printed rules would suck.
>>93301487WtD?
>>93301533Witness to Darkness.
>>93300886I think there are some items that allow solars to shape shift into specific animals.
>>93300886Lunars have a monopoly on it but there are specific shapeshifting actions like eclipse charms that let you do a shittier version of it.
>>93300886>Can Solars shapeshift? Yes>Do they have to jump through a shit ton of hoops to do so? Yes>Can they approach a Lunar's versatility of shapes? Hell noMost ways a Solar can shapeshift either just let them become one thing, make them good at disguising as other people, or work something like Solar medicine letting you apply mutations to yourself and having to treat every change as a crafting project
>>93297170Weekly Update>Post-Approval DevelopmentExigents JumpstartDanielle: Approvals happened quickly, and we’ll be moving this off to editing soon>Editing Sidereals NovellaDanielle: I’m sure Dixie is excited to read some beautiful fiction written by our very own Elliott. It’s a good one>Art DirectionEssence Pillars of Creation – Sketches in and more feedback sent>PressEssence Retail and LtD – Backer books at Studio2, shipping starting soonEssence Screen – Shipping starting soonExigents – Getting quotesExigents Screen – Getting it quoted and prepping press filesSidereals – Inputting errata correx i don't know what a correx is, but if it's a typo they've used it twiceEssence Jumpstart – Inputting errata correxseems they're mostly shipping things for now, though the essence jumpstart and sidereals might be out as soon as next month, possibly the essence charm cards as well
>>93302680>i don't know what a correx is, but if it's a typo they've used it twiceGoogle says it's a term for Corrugated plastic
>>93302680>>93303365I think it is a corruption of "correction", I am not sure if intentional.X = tc = shSimilar to J = D = Z
If I ran an exalted quest would you guys prefer it to be on qst or anonkun? What would you most like to see in it?
>>93303835>What would you most like to see in it?Solar's destroying femboi Realm ass at every opportunity.
>>93303835While I always enjoy a good Infernal quest, it's always Infernal or Solar for quest protagonists. Maybe mix it up by having a Lunar or Abyssal quest instead.As for preference? /qst/
>>93297170finally got my collection of 1e and 2e done, outside of 2es art book. plan on doing 3e within the year
>>93303835Femboi freshly exalted Solar trying not to get snu-snu'd to death by his Golden Widow Method using Lunar mate
>>93304027Infernal is my pick, if only cause of how weird things can go with them>>93304218Nice, I mostly use PDFs but there's something great about having physical books
>>93303835>What would you most like to see in it?A protagonist that isn't the done-and-dusted Solar/Infernal/Dragonblood. Sidereal would be cool, or Lunar, or an Akuma with the Urge to Obey The Vote.
Would you take an Exaltation, or double it, and give it on to the next two randomly selected people? The choice recurs, so they also get to double it or give it on. You are the first to choose.
>>93305602I'm not sure I understand the question because of how simple it sounds to me but. Yeah. I'd absolutely take an Exaltation, whether as a Solaroid or Dragonblooded.I don't feel morally compromised by denying it to two randomly selected people. I'm not a saint, but I'm also not a drug dealer or professional politician.
>>93305602I'd take it, with the same logic as >>93305648. Now, if it wasn't two random people but two people I know, I'd make my decision based on what those people are like. If it was two people I don't know but who're guaranteed to be better than me, well, I'd obviously want to know how 'better' is defined, but I might well let the power go to them. If it's just two randos, though, I'd feel pretty good about taking the Exaltation for myself.
>>93303835A Sidereal or Lunar would be coolest, and I'd prefer you do it on /qst/ so you can crosspost it easier. It'd be cool if you did it in the Northwest.
>>93305898This schizopost reminds me, who is the closest thing to Jesus in the Exalted setting?
>>93305913In 1e no one. in 2e those fucks high on their own farts made Sol the closest thing to a christ-like figure.
>>93305913Ligier.
>>93305898Christ deflected death with a PD, big whoop.>>93305913Ruvelia, she died for the Exalted host's sins.
>>93303407Probably intentional shorthand like sux for successes.Also feels a little unprofessional but the whole non-D&D RPG industry kinda feels de-professionalized these days, every discussion about a product is in a discord moderated by the writers and everything is funded by Kickstarters etc etc. I'm not inclined to be a curmudgeon about it, but if wotc or a similarly large company did the same I'd be irritated.
>>933059132E's version of Sol is the closest thing the game's hadBeyond that I think there were some dev comments that "Evil Jesus" (as opposed to just an anti-Christ archetype) was an intended viable option for Infernals and there's a few scattered bits of lore in both 1E and 2E that give some of the 3CDs Jesus-y traits to support the old 1E idea of Creation being a setting where Lucifer wonBut for the most part the not!Jesus role was shoved onto 2E's Sol, yeah, I don't think any other edition has really had an equivalent
2e question, I know there's rules for having a weapon in one's off hand, but is there any rules for wielding weapons in more than two hands if you have them from shit like mutations or even something like mind-hand?
>>93303835Solar quest.
>you can't use Charms or magic through Behind the Beast's Eyes>even if it's a mundane animal or trivial mortal you're doing it to so no opportunity for degenerate shenanigansit's so over.
>>93311789>Heart-Eaten Avatar>Cost: 5m, 1wp (1m, 1wp); Mins: Essence 3>Type: Reflexive>Keywords: None>Duration: (Essence) rounds>Prerequisite Charms: Pawn Becomes Queen>Under the Hearteater’s control, her pawns become miracle workers, heritors of her supernatural prowess. >While directly controlling a pawn, the Hearteater can use her own non-Permanent Charms and other magical effects through him. >The Hearteater can’t combine her Charms with any Charms possessed by a supernatural pawn. This includes ongoing effects: if the Hearteater uses one of her Charms through a pawn, any of that pawn’s own ongoing effects immediately end, and vice versa.>When the Hearteater uses this Charm while controlling a pawn empowered by its prerequisite, this Charm’s cost is reduced to one mote, one Willpower.
>>93313348The prerequisite. >Pawn Becomes Queen >Cost: 5m, 1wp, 2xp; Mins: Essence 3>Type: Simple>Keywords: None>Duration: Instant>Prerequisite Charms: Piece-Promoting Advance>The Hearteater raises up one of her pawns — though not so high as herself — suffusing him with her hungry Essence. >The Hearteater grants a character a pool of (Hearteater’s Essence + 5) motes. He can add up to (Hearteater’s Essence) dice on any roll made to serve the Hearteater or her interests for one mote each. >Alternatively, he can add up to (her Essence/2, rounded up) to any static value for two motes per +1 bonus when doing so would advance the Hearteater’s interests. These motes can’t be used to attune artifacts.>If the empowered character ceases to be a pawn, he loses this Charm’s benefits, refunding the experience points spent to empower him. Likewise, upon an empowered pawn’s death, the Hearteater recovers the experience spent on him.
>>93313348>>93313401Hmm, your homebrew splat seems a bit monofocused on one tool.
>>93313411They are in a tech demo state, but they have a bunch of unpublished charms.>Eaten by the Sky (Essence 3; Prerequisite Charms: Life-Annihilating Aurora): Engulf an enemy in a baleful aurora that gradually turns his body to opal if it is not driven off.
>>93313439Oh, unpublished? Well, I wish you the best in getting it uploaded to the Storyteller's Vault when its done.
>>93313456They are in the official book, but lack mechanics. But don't worry, somebody did a full port to Essence, ironically enough it was the first thing that Exigents inspired. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10-3PteY9LueWR4YMaV-8OZDBTMPRw2NgIRapgGBwxPw/mobilebasic
>>93313513Looks bad, OP.
Now that I think about it, is there a port of Pakpao to Essence?
How old is your character?
>>93315075O-old enough...
>>93315075Are we measuring in age since First or Second Breath?
>>93315075Probably in her mid 30's appearance wise, but being an exalt and all she's actually older (but you never ask a woman her age).
>>93303835never played an sidereal quest. I've seen quests of all pre 3e types
>>93313348>>93311789I'd make it scene long, cost a willpower and your pool is Limited to Essence * 5
So I'm thinking of an artifact weapon based on the Kougon Anki, a golden polearm that can transform into different modes such as a chainsickle, scissors, boomerang, bow and bow. Since it was made for a Dawn Caste combat hydra, I was thinking of the following forms:(Grand daiklave) (Melee)(Reaper and wavecleaver daiklave) (Melee)(Skycutter) (Thrown)(Powerbow) (Archery)(???) (Martial Arts)I was thinking about Smashfists/Bloodspike Harness/God-Kicking Boots for Martial Arts, since it's compatible with Solar Hero Style and allows you to strike and clinch, but I'm not sure ho
>>93316140The classic would be for it to break up into a seven section stave for martial arts. You could also look at the daikalbar and chain daiklave from Scroll of the Monk.
>>93316158The latter two came to mind after I posted this. THanks!
Lunars and Sidereals got updated to the new version of Demake's core rules, with a couple other updates to them. Sidereal Astrology is one-roll resolution and Lunars have a sort of Legacy/Vows type thing called Evolution. Basically, a couple of free powers that they can switch around rarely, and they can only have a number of them equal to their Essence rating. On that note, I want to see what the thread thinks of one of the Evolution options:>Skin Dancer: By using a shapeshifting action while wearing the form of her Feral Heart, the Lunar may cause her skin to split open, allowing her to step out of the empty animal skin in the form of her Birth Skin. If she does so, she becomes entirely mortal, leaving her Exaltation and all of her Charms behind within the empty animal skin. Whosoever dons the animal skin gains the Lunar’s Exaltation and all associated powers, including this Evolution, though they retain their own Essence rating and do not gain any of the Lunar’s memories. If this would disable some of the Lunar’s Evolutions, Skin Dancer is always the first Evolution retained. The only power that does not transfer with the skin is initiation into sorcery, along with any known spells, creating the incredibly rare potential for the former Lunar to exist as a mortal capable of wielding Celestial Circle sorcery. My first thought was 'what idiot would ever use this' until I realised how incredibly based it would be to go straight to Celestial Circle Sorcery, disregard all other Lunar effects, and immediately hand off your apprentice after putting them under oath to do the same thing. Because, really, is being a Lunar that much better than being a celestial circle sorcerer? Or better, two celestial circle sorcerers, or a dozen, if you can keep that chain going for a while.
>>93316847In a way, I feel like it's dumb to throw away all the extra power, but it could actually make an interesting story.
>>93316847The only reason you'd use this is as an emergency effect where you are about to die.
>>93317045There's some world where you keep a tight enough reign on your line of people training up that you can just get it back later when there's trouble coming up, even.>>93317071That was my first thought, yeah. I've had second and third thoughts and I'm well into fourth at this point though.
>>93316847Wow. This lore section and some of the write ups are pretty much 3e. I wonder just how much imput they had. It also makes me feel no matter if we still had holden and morke we would have gotten the same kind of lunars.
>>93316847I think Skin Dancer is kinda bad. I prefer keeping things like this to Solar's, where at the upper end they can choose their inheritors ala Should The Sun Not Rise.
>>93317179It only makes it a little better but part of the way that Evolution works is that you can shift in and out of it. Basically you stack up points by doing RP stuff across stories and you do the Evolution dance by going into the Wyld and vision-questing in a six hour ritual, where you pick up to [Essence] special powers using your evolution points. It costs some of the funny evolution money, but you can change one you've already got. Means you're not locked into the effect and if you've already hit the cap then changing ones you've already got around to play with funny effects is the default use.Other options are way better for general use. You've got shit like 'unkillable+unKOable while in limit break', 'use magical powers of people you eat', and 'giant, even nastier rage form' in there.Also, Skin Dancer opens up double Exaltation, which I personally find funny. I'm told Holden says that it's an intended use case, and you're supposed to be able to Exalt pretty much anything, with an anecdote about handing your Exaltation to your Solar mate while you're healing.Because Lunars trust their Solar mates, right?
>>93317179With enough brainwashing and mind alterations, it makes the Lunar immortal.
>>93317179It's actually mythologically appropriate.
>>93317179>>93318320>Should The Sun Not Rise.What would be appropriate for the other Celestials?
>>93318597Lunars actually have two methods of passing along Exaltation in that Demake update. The other one is folded into another ability which is for Lunar breeding and basically lets them pass on their Exaltation to a child. They die doing this. I think that one's fine so long as it's understood that it's a side-effect of being able to do something else (in this case, tailor your children and genetics to any purpose, even if I do think that it's a weaker effect than it should be).For Sidereals, I think it'd be cool if they could select their next incarnation via fate-weaving. It could even be a manual process and would probably be cooler if it was - just something you can do if you have proficiency in the Haywain. They'd determine who is going to be the next holder of their Exaltation (an unborn child) and maybe give them immunity to arcane fate towards the Exaltation they're destined for so that the Sidereal could have a larger role in raising them, and then during their Exaltation when they're taking the reigns of destiny their last incarnation does the mentor thing and karks it so the new hero can take up their mantle.Another Sidereal method of passing on Exaltation would be for them to have developed a Sidereal Martial Art where the capstone is some super move that makes them go out in a blaze of glory; when their power gutters out, their ghost is sealed into some innocuous object like a ring, lamp, or pot, and their next incarnation is destined to Exalt when they pick it up. The ghost in the object then becomes a Mentor in Should The Sun Not Rise fashion. Everybody loves a good ring grandpa.
>>93318761>reigns of destinyreinsI don't know why it told me reins -> reigns was the correction to make.
>>93315075Somewhere in his middle ages pre- Second breath. Afterwards, old enough to reach Essence 2. He also knows shape shifting charms so lol he can look however old he wants.
>>93300886>>93297170Lunar shapeshifting would be cooler for me if it involved either buffing your attributes to unreal levels or swapping your attribute points around like you're morphling from dota. Instead most of the Lunar shapeshifting feels like sidegrades, or hunting creatures for forms like you're Ben 10. Let me be a moon wizard with INT 20 who can swap 15 points into DEX when he changes into a 10 foot tall beast superman.
>>93320418There actually is a mutation that does that IIRC, and I think it's legal with 2e's Deadly Beastman transformation at least, though each attribute swap is a different mutation
What would you do in this situation
>>93321752Solaroids: try to kill him.Sidereals: try to scam him.Lunars: do like a solaroid but worse, or don't interact with him.Dragon-Blooded: Be stomped by him.Alchemicals: inhabit him.Exigents: do everything in their power to never interact with him.Getimians: try to kill him to retcon away the setting.Hearteaters: try to pawn him.
>>93321752Its just a big guy…? Kill him.
>>93321752what is this stupid shit you god damn sperg
>>93323254God from one punch man.
>>93323438that fucking comic is so boring. one-punch? more like one-joke
>>93323474The manga version overstayed its welcome.
>>93313348>>93313401>>93313439Nobody gives a shit about Hearteaters because they are not canon and they devalue the setting like the other new exalts.Only Solaroids, Sidereals and Deebs exist while Lunars are antagonist only since Sidereals fill their niche in a better way and Alchemicals aren't real exalts, just prototypes.I hope Paradox Interactive removes the nuexalts and focuses on the better traditional exalts in the next edition. And Adamant shouldn't exist since the Adamant Caste is apocryphal.
>>93323601>And Adamant shouldn't exist since the Adamant Caste is apocryphal.It stopped being apocryphal by 2e.>while Lunars are antagonist only since Sidereals fill their niche in a better way and Alchemicals aren't real exalts, just prototypes.Do you read the books, or just the shitposting?>I hope Paradox Interactive removes the nuexalts and focuses on the better traditional exalts in the next edition5E will be full mudcore.At their peak, Solars are slightly stronger mortals.Lunars will become the sixth Dragon-Blooded aspect.The Realm's civil war will be divided between elementals vs vegetal and animal dbs.In the civil war, you are supposed to play pluck Exigents with their busted exigent alchemy.Sidereals don't interact with heaven or fate anyway.Depending on the book, all Deathlords went to oblivion or lether or are currently present.Infernals' lore will be introduced and retconed at moments notice.Infernals don't actually do anything, just sit around. Talking with a 3rd curcle demon is a sign that your character is too far gone.The devs aren't aware that other Exalted types exist.
>>93323601>Alchemicals aren't real exalts, just prototypesAnon if you read the books you'd know the Alchemicals are the more refined later version.>Only Solaroids, Sidereals and Deebs exist while Lunars are antagonist onlyAnon even if you hate Lunars enough to call them antagonist-only, harkening back to the very early days of development, you'd still acknowledge them as existing because they led the Balorian Crusade after the First and Forsaken Lion sabotaged the barriers at the edge of the world to let them back in. They'd be a relevant threat to the world with greater proven and current success than the forces of Hell or the Underworld, and the only way the world would survive their onslaught would be the newly reborn Solar heroes exploiting their ancient ties to turn their hands aside.That's the context of Lunars as antagonists, after all. They work with the Fae and are succeeding at wearing the world away at the edges, destroying civilization and crippling the world from the outside in with great success.
>>93323723>The devs aren't aware that other Exalted types exist.Nah, they'll remember Alchemicals. They'll just be always-canon to the setting, as Autochthonia has been sending people out through some super-project to bring souls home or something. They'll remember Alchemicals because Autochthonia will become something like a glorious communist utopia, constantly fighting to bring the light of civilization against the encroaching dark of the void on all fronts. There won't be any corruption, everybody will perform according to their means and duties, and they'll be the ultimate good guys coming to save Creation.
>>93323870Sorry anon, but Authocton is completely dead.Any violent action against it is extremism.A faction will be retconed to be nazi and another noc only for no reason.And Alchemicals will only have robot like charms, like punching harder.
>>93323847>That's the context of Lunars as antagonists, after all. They work with the Fae and are succeeding at wearing the world away at the edges, destroying civilization and crippling the world from the outside in with great success.what differentiates them from raksha if you use this take? seems really dumb and reduces both to being generic D&D orcs.>>93323870>>93323921is there a word for this kind of posting style where people make up shit that hasn't happened/won't happen to piss themselves off and circlejerk about it?
>>93324104>is there a word for this kind of posting style where people make up shit that hasn't happened/won't happen to piss themselves off and circlejerk about it?Grognard
>>93318761>For Sidereals, I think it'd be cool if they could select their next incarnation via fate-weaving. It could even be a manual process and would probably be cooler if it was - just something you can do if you have proficiency in the Haywain. They'd determine who is going to be the next holder of their Exaltation (an unborn child) and maybe give them immunity to arcane fate towards the Exaltation they're destined for so that the Sidereal could have a larger role in raising them, and then during their Exaltation when they're taking the reigns of destiny their last incarnation does the mentor thing and karks it so the new hero can take up their mantle.That could be fun. That actually reminds me of an idea I had for a sort of Sidereal bond that would form when a Sidereal trained someone. If the Sidereal died, their incarnation would be attracted to any still living disciples so they would have the opportunity to train under them and relearn their martial arts, allowing them to learn faster. This also applies the other way around to Celestial Exalts, where their incarnations will be drawn to their old master, giving them the opportunity to train again. Both would learn said martial arts faster, but the bond is broken if both die without the bond being renewed through training on at least one side.
>>93323601>Nobody gives a shit about Hearteaters because they are not canon and they devalue the setting like the other new exalts.Wrong. Plenty of people like Heart-Eaters, and only them. I think both versions are a bit flawed, but with some expansion could be worthwhile.As for Lunars, kill some sacred cows and alter the setting so they actually have a place in it. It isn't hard, it's just no developer wants to rock the boat that much. Honestly, you have a lot of bad opinions. For example, just looking at WoD 5e should make it blatantly obvious that Paradox getting more involved would just make things even worse.
>>93324104>what differentiates them from raksha if you use this take?Power, emotional ties to the resurgent powers in Creation (currently everything out of the Wyld is basically kill on sight, so it improves things for the Fae a little), the ability to range freely into Creation, the Wyld Hunt, shapeshifting, etc.
>>93323601>this is the same guy who complains about chinkpires and playable Sabbat from /wodg/Wow, talk about crossover.
>>93324749>currently everything out of the Wyld is basically kill on sight,no
>>93324910>>93324749There's been Raksha living in human cities and settlements since 1E and trading with humans even more commonly. They're barely more threatening then gods.
>>93324910Players consider them basically kill on sight. They have nothing to redeem them to us. In Creation's canon they can be tolerated, if not kindly, but we're in vibes territory here. Enough of us think they are kill on sight that they are, basically, kill on sight. It's mostly because they were portrayed as baddies in Keychain of Creation, and because they have nothing to give the world and exist as leeches in Creation.>>93324986To a player they're not threatening, but they also have very little to offer. A player might look at a god and see that they are doing their duty appropriately, or at least paying their worshippers in protection and miracles in return for their faith. It's easy to see gods as necessary and even healthy for the ongoings in Creation. That's much harder with Fair Folk because they sustain themselves by eating people, and their natural place in Creation is destroying it, and they have no souls, and because their charms that do things in Creation are much more skeevy than divine charms on average, given that they're generally set up to facilitate eating people (whether by tricking them into it or beating them into it) instead of protecting and guiding them.
>>93325058I was almost gonna call you a nogamer, but then I realized how much work I had to do to present a Raksha that wasn't worthy of being kill on sight. The whole slavery and soul eating thing really does a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to a Raksha's reputation. You'd actually have to be roleplaying absolute retard characters that don't know what a Raksha or just evil to give one the time of day.
>>93325058>>93325129Most Creationites, even many Exalts must be absolute retards then because there's plenty of peaceful interaction with Raksha throughout creation, from the trade of slaves; to actually friendly raksha who live in cities and regulate their appetites to avoid hurting people significantly.
>>93325142> to actually friendly raksha who live in cities and regulate their appetites to avoid hurting people significantly.Which is incredibly fucking rare you dip?>the trade of slaves>>You'd actually have to be roleplaying absolute retard characters that don't know what a Raksha or just evil to give one the time of day.most PCs are anti slavery kek.
>>93325142>the trade of slavesYou know that trading slaves with the fae is framed as being an example of the extreme moral degradation of the Guild, right? Like, it's thought of a bad thing even by the people who are fine with the slave-taking.>actually friendly raksha who live in cities and regulate their appetites to avoid hurting people significantly.The 'my neighbourhood raksha' archetype is still inflicting long-term mental damage on the people around them. The significance of this depends on who you ask, but in an absolute sense no raksha stays in Creation feeding on a limited supply of mortals without damaging them doing so, even if it's just a teensy bit.Even in those places where the locals appreciate them, there's good chances a wandering hero's still going to typecast them as the bad guy feeding on the people around them, possibly with a side of their infamous glamour mindfuck, and smite them.
>>93325129Or you could deal with one of those rakshas who have no slaves and who feed with care.>>93325167Rare, not nonexistent, and it's not like PCs spend their time exclusively dealing with common and unexceptional things. Also most players are anti-slavery, but I don't think I've ever seen an Exalted PC strongly opposed to slavery.
>>93325522>>93325167Again, whatever your thoughts on the objective effect on raksha in Creation, most creationites and most Exalts do not react to Raksha with 'kill on sight'.
>>93297170I don't like 3e. I want to go back to 2e.
>>933256682E still exists and will continue existing, so go ahead.
>>93325559Probably would if they could get away with it, though.
>>93324104>is there a word for this kind of posting style where people make up shit that hasn't happened/won't happen to piss themselves off and circlejerk aboutThat was a joke base on what happened to Apocalypse.The stargazers and fenrir became npc only
>>93325683i have all the books, i just need someone who wants to play
>>93325129It is depends on their numbers, and deals.For example, the varang city states would be OK with the vanisher if "it" targeted the undesirables.
>>93325924Do you have a group that could be convinced to play if you ran? I've usually had luck with getting people to play games I'm interested in as long as I'm running and can give some kind of a decently interesting sales pitch.
>>93325946I currently have no friends but I'm working on that.
>>93325969Alright, I hope you'll succeed. I'm pretty happy with 3E, myself, but I definitely see the appeal in 2E, as well. And, of course, having friends is great and almost everyone deserves to have some.
What is the essential advice you would give to a first time storyteller wanting to run an exalted campaign?
>>93326051improvise as much as possibleanything you might prepare won't survive first contact with the players
>>93326069Exalted seems like a system which requires a firm basis of prep to provide a base for improvisation, given the complexity of the mechanics.
>>93326152My only successful tenure as an ST was when I improvised 90% of the campaign.
>>93324711Fandom wise, they are kind of like 2e Infernals. And their bones are commonly used as plot devices.
>>93325559>most creationites and most Exalts do not react to Raksha with 'kill on sight'.They do though. Places where Raksha are accepted are the minority and noteworthy for being so.
>>93326051The absolute most important mechanical skill is to understand how many dice is appropriate for people to have and why, and what kinds of Difficulty are likely to be met with a particular diceroll. Mostly this means being familiar with Ability ratings and what they indicate in-character, Attribute ratings and what they show in-character, specialties, and the easy ways to add to a basic dicepool, meaning Excellency, stunts, virtues, and willpower, and understanding that on average people roll half as many successes as they have dice (10 dice rolls 5 successes half the time) and ~5 dice away is a 'sure thing' - 5 dice rarely rolls 5 successes, 15 dice usually rolls 5 successes. You can run most sessions based purely on that, and completely ignore the text of every charm until the player invokes one, at which point you ask them what it does and respond appropriately. The important soft skills are being able to hype things up and improvise. Hype things up well, and encourage your players to go overboard and into it, and they will forgive a lot of flaws. This means being fast-paced, responsive to their actions, and willing to kludge stuff together in ways that make them feel big. They don't just fight the hobgoblin, it menaces innocents and gets ripped to bits. When they leap from a roof to the next, they do it as a group, and you tell them you're thinking of the Furious Five going to fight Tai Lung right now - except they're gonna WIN. That skill transitions into being good at improvisation, at moving forward without a plan, at balancing verisimilitude against pacing. Your goal is generally to make sense in the moment, and process how it fits the grand scheme over time. Be willing to wrangle ideas to fit. Try to bring back things you've already introduced or planned and didn't get to use, over and over if you don't have many straws to grasp at, but try to relocate and contextualize them in a new place, with new circumstances, doing something hype.
What's the 3e perfect defense paranoia suite for solars?
>>93326542Lore exp abuse.Falling prone and god king shrike.
>>93326152>Exalted seems like a system which requires a firm basis of prep to provide a base for improvisation, given the complexity of the mechanics.It is very much the opposite, in my experience. I cannot remember the last time I statted an NPC ahead of time.I actually went back to my notes for my very first game of Exalted ever. It includes two full statblocks, one of which I never used, and and the other being a deathknight opponent who's charm list (based on Solars) I threw out halfway through the fight to say that they did some cool shit instead. Here's a list of characters I actually used:>NINE GAUNTLETS, TIGER MASTER>INSENSITIVE HALFGIANT WARRIOR FROM THE PIRATE INFESTED ISLES WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE IN HYGIENE>MOLE ARM, TIGER BANDIT>WANTS TO FIGHT A LOT, DUMB AS BRICKS. >Hedge Hog, SNAKE BANDIT>KIND OF A BACKSTABBING DICK. TUNNEL VISION.I developed them further in play, for clarity. Encapsulating the whole of a character from prepared notes rarely goes well, in my opinion. Give them a starter personality and then improvise as you go. If you can estimate roughly how many dice people should be throwing, know the basic powers, limits, and themes of their type, and have some ideas for cool powers, then you're good on mechanics pretty much indefinitely and you'll find the rest of what you need as you go. Even just knowing that up to 7 dice is the range for small-time kids, up to 12 is for cool dude's good skills, and higher than that is significant/supernatural is probably enough as far as judging non-Exalted NPCs goes.This is my style, of course. If you're playing a more highly technical combat heavy game, then maybe you do want more prep sheets, but I doubt it. I will say that you'd be good to prep a lot of character ideas ahead of time for a game that revolves around espionage or similar information-heavy chicanery, though.
>>93326051One cool trick that makes things easier is, when you're preparing, to prepare in an arc/story format. That is to say, have an idea how you're going to start the immediate story arc in front of you and get your players into it, have an idea of what you want it's climax to be, and put a solid condition to end it right from the start. Then maybe one or two points where you plan how you're going to bring your players further into it, that you can use independently of each other even if one or the other fails, and that will help you channel your players towards the climax. Have ideas for maybe three or four characters with stakes in the game, what their deal is, how they vibe, and give them motives that could at some point conflict with each other if they met, or the party. I recommend starting with a story prompt that encapsulates your initial idea for the arc, something that you could present to your players as a blurb to get them into it.
>>93326771Something like:>"In the wyld-touched jungles of the Verdant Cauldron, not all is at rest. A tribe native to the area has come to tell you of a sickness in their sacred tree, a rot delivered by the elusive Fair Folk lizard-rider, Throng-Rotler, which is spreading giant growth and rapid reproduction through the wildlife, along with an awful lust for blood that threatens their way of life and the rest of the region if this breaks loose. Take down the lizard-rider, cure the forest, and save the tree people!">Start with the tribe showing up and throwing themselves at your feet, make them go full cult mode>Big fight with lots of suped-up animals, and a cataphract with his hobgoblin minions and all their tamed animals>End by leaving the forest's people with a legend of you they'll spread>Sacred tree will be a manse that trains Survival; the animals all love it and the hearthstone wielder>there's a bunch of other jungle tribes in here that the fae are raiding>Throng-Rotler, Fair Folk lizard-riding desparado who likes to vanish into the sunset with his crew. Really wants to ride The Dread Tyrant, and make everyone else desperate for a hero - him!>Big Thingo, who leads the tribe and hates feeling like they have no way to get better. In love with Mint, despises Throng-Rotler.>Mint, a tree-keeper type person who holds it's hearthstone and is sickened by the fae poison. Beguiled by Throng-Rotler, with a thing with Big Thingo, and sometimes gets rides from The Dread Tyrant.>The Dread Tyrant, the biggest Tyrant Lizard around, also able to breathe fire. Ornery and even bigger with the fae juice. Throng-Rotler wants him, he wants Mint, and Big Thingo tried to harness him once but failed.And honestly this is already a lot.
>>93326243Read the books.
>>93326152It is. No idea what these other ST were smoking. I sketched out the entire local region and it’s supernatural inhabitants before starting the campaign and still had to occasionally stop a session early just to figure out how to proceed.
>>93329490If you learned how to improvise, you wouldn't have had to do that.
>>93329516Improvisation in Exalted requires a solid foundation. It’s a game of power and consequences; if you don’t have the parameters defined you’re likely to fall into the common pitfalls of this game, or making things too easy or too hard, making player actions feel irrelevant, or making them seem like bitches to something they really shouldn’t be having issues with. And even with a good foundation sometimes you need to think on what all effects a given rash, powerful action would have. If you can run the game without that, you’re either a really good ST or a really bad one.
>>93329562Or you could just not be slow in the head.Stopping a session because the players did something unexpected is a baffling concept.
>>93329577I should clarify that these were 4-5 hour sessions that I’d sometimes pause an hour early if it seemed something needed more planning and it formed a good stopping point. It wasn’t as though we were only just starting. My broader point was that you desperately need to have the general landscape of power mapped out before the game in order to be able to effectively improvise as without it you’re very likely to produce plot holes or make actions arbitrarily easy or difficult. It’s also just overall easier to write when you have the region, the NPCs and their assets and relations, and so on outlined before the game.
>>93325924i run a second ed campaign AND participate in one.they exist, just keep looking.
>>93316847I'm still reading Sidereals, but the idea of Lunars evolving to become more powerful and being able to change their powers freely to be more adaptable it seems to fit perfectly into their powers and themes.
>>93329577>just stat up numerous worthy adversaries to an exalted party with their individual powers on the fly bro...>y-yes my party exclusively deals with mortal local lords who all went to the same martial arts academy and did a summer with the same local sorcerer....we all totally believe you
>>93329897And the base charmset? Was it fixed?
>>93330283You can always reuse stat sheets, the real problem is when you have to give them pages of Charms.
>>93330283>just stat up numerous worthy adversaries to an exalted party with their individual powers on the fly broYes. It's literally harder to come up with names.
>>93331463I think there are a name generator or 2 two around.
>>93331517Yes, I have a whole list of names curated out of those. Sometimes there's a local or cultural naming scheme like with dynasts, though, and I have to think a little harder.
>>93325522>The 'my neighbourhood raksha' archetype is still inflicting long-term mental damage on the people around them.[citation needed]
>>93332216It is extremely difficult to prove a 'can't' - that they absolutely cannot live in Creation without hurting others, without some other mean of sustaining themselves - but I can very strongly cite Graceful Wicked Masques pg 33-35 describing the three most popular methods of feeding in Creation - eating Virtues/Willpower by force, baiting mortals with offers too good to be true that put them at the faes mercy where they eat their Virtues/Willpower, and bargaining for mortal slaves whose Virtues/Willpower they eat. Here's a quote pretty clearly aimed at people playing 'nice' raksha:>The raksha know well that the sustaining qualities of sentient beings are not infinite within such beings, so they have learned to ration the resources each being represents. This is not to say that all raksha are so conscientious, but they all know how to be.Note the keyword 'ration'. They ration people's souls. They aren't farming them, and keeping a sustainable herd of mortals looks just as bad with raksha as it does for Vampires in WoD - really bad. When they open their feeding maw and ravish the qualities they find desirable, it isn't friendly. Feeding charms - Ravishing the Created Form, Heart-Stealing Kiss, etc - are not temporary Willpower/Virtue diminishment, it's permanent unless retrained or repaired. Even if you only take tiny bites, that's still permanent Willpower/Virtue reduction.Raksha can survive in Creation without feeding on people, to be clear. They just aren't friendly neighbourhood raksha, they're raksha in freeholds or with access to wyld zones.
>>93332416>>93332216Ultimately none of this is relevant to the original point which is their position in the setting. Raksha are viewed as dangerous. But a lot of things are dangerous, demons, gods, Exalts, all dangerous. Throughout most of Creation the same iron law holds, which is what does this magical being *want*, who is it trying to hurt or help? People in Creation might not even immediately be able to tell the difference between two different magical beings. A Terrestial, Elemental, Spirit, Demon, and Raksha could all potentially have the same appearance given the breadth of their diversity. So how a magical being is treated is going to depend a lot more on who they are, what they seem to be doing, whether the locals possess the interest or means of driving off whatever it is, etc. Throughout most of Creation if a Raksha is offering to trade rather than war, or wants to live in your city peacably, how you'd react has nothing to do with the objective realities surrounding their vampiric nature. Its all "Is this being more helpful to us or more harmful?" and "Supposing we wanted to get rid of them, do we even possess the means?". Big cities and the Blessed Isle can probably tell Raksha to fuck off, but for 90+% of the world; if they're offering to play nice you thank the gods, comply, and hope they don't have an ulterior motive. I mean the very moniker "Fair Folk" tells you that that is the attitude. They're not 'kill on sight', they're the weird dangerous magical people you warn your children about and hope they leave you alone.
>>93332504>They're not 'kill on sight', they're the weird dangerous magical people you warn your children about and hope they leave you alone.Ultimately none of what you said is relevant to the original point which is how they are treated by players. The rest of the setting doesn't matter if the intelligent move for a player always seems to be getting rid of them.
>>93332731Get better players? Idk what to tell you man.
>>93332504The reputation of Fair Folk is significantly worse than even demons in the setting.
Can someone explain if Solars are better beastmasters than Lunars, or if they aren't, what advantages do they have over Lunars?
>>93333117Their abilities are different enough that one is not strictly better than the other. Solars can buff up a single better beast for combat, and they can do small packs very well. Lunars can get all the animals in the region to do stuff, and they're significantly better at buffing and using animals in ways that are useful out of combat. Solar beastmastering is essentially based on the idea of their charms applying to a familiar or familiars, while Lunar beastmastering is based on them controlling the animal kingdom.
>>93332416>Feeding charms - Ravishing the Created Form, Heart-Stealing Kiss, etc - are not temporary Willpower/Virtue diminishment, it's permanent unless retrained or repaired. Even if you only take tiny bites, that's still permanent Willpower/Virtue reduction.I don't recall Banquet of Crumbs doing anything negative to mortals.
>>93332416Raksha can take on the assumption of ghosts and receive burnt or blood offerings, which can be from pigs. In that case it literally only takes time to appease them.
In regards to the raksha discussion, I honestly prefer their Scavenger Sons depiction since Fair Folk and Graceful Wicked Masques vastly overcomplicated them and, weirdly, gave the most chaotic group of beings a rigid set of rules on how they act and operate.
>>93333424I skimmed it. Its interesting how it differs from later portrayals. Alot of early Exalted material has cool, different takes on the setting, like how before Yu-Shan was a thing its implied that "the Celestines" dwell in "mansions in the night sky" in like fashion to their counterparts in Werewolf.
>>93333424I honestly disagree to a point - the major problem with Graceful Wicked Masques and Fair Folk was the fact that 70 percent of the playable material was not relevant to Creation based games and it took way too much mental energy to come to that conclusion.The Raksha archetypes, Courts and Commoner/Noble dichotomy gave a lot of strong structure to what a Raksha actually is. Scavenger Sons and 3e era Raksha (which harken back to Scavsons) have an issue where Raksha are supposed to represent a lot of things but the only thing unifying them as a class of being is that they eat souls compared to other Fae, so their identity paradoxically falls back to just being weird things that are weird because they're...weird!I never really have a strong desire to include Raksha under this framework, because there's no real meat to them outside of me arbitrarily deciding that I want to include a weird thing without it being another spirit. What Fair Folk 1e and to a lesser extent Graceful Wicked Masques did was create an interesting context as to why a Raksha are not like other Fae and why a Raksha might act a certain way - those guidelines gave a solid foundation to grasp them and gave a lot of room to play around with it without falling into the trap of being the ex miscellaneous of the Exalted setting. It also allows other sorts of Fae to have stronger distinction from Raksha beyond just not being called a Raksha. That said, I think the individual Raksha characters in Scavenger Sons are all great concepts, I just don't think the general description of them was actually all that worth it compared to Fair Folk 1e's more robust description.
>>93333519That doesn't sound that different then "it overcomplicates them". If 70% of the material is superfluous to a normal game, and its not immediately obvious that's the case, what do you call that if not overcomplication?
>>9333353370 percent of the Charm material and literal system mechanic as distinct from setting material, I should clarify. Most of the Raksha wordcount in 1e Fair Folk and GWM was about Shaping Combat mechanics, which was irrelevant to basically 99 percent of games.
>>93333549Yeah I know. That's what I mean.
>>93333552The post I was responding wasn't specifically talking about Shaping Combat and the system mechanics branching off of that unless I've missed something? It was a more general opinion of GWM and FFThat's exactly why I said I disagree to a point, gave my view for where the game overcomplicated matters for no one's benefit, and then gave my view for why I thought the other things it added was a benefit.
>>93333563I think you missed something, or I did, because I just assumed that anon was talking about shaping combat, graces, and other complicated additions to Fair Folk.
>>93333579>gave the most chaotic group of beings a rigid set of rules on how they act and operate.I'm also talking about graces / other additions in Fair Folk, I just singled out Shaping Combat and the immediate consequences of it as being the part where I agree with anon and then talked about why I thought the other additions were good things, including the lore and including things like Graces / Raksha Castes and the like. We just seem to disagree on it is all.
How should the people of Creation react to a God-Blooded of a celestial incarnae?Let's say an actual child of Luna. Not a Lunar, but her hair is woven moonlight and her eyes literally show the full moon instead of normal human irises. Luna of course isn't going to offer her any actual favor. Not a Chosen, just a human with a tiny bit of divinity mixed in like any other god-blood. But would people be thinking "this is too close to Anathema for my tastes" and keep their distance or prostrate themselves before her as a living altar to Luna or something? Would a Lunar regard her as anything more than an idle curiosity?
>>93334406>How should the people of Creation react to a God-Blooded of a celestial incarnae?Depends on who the people of Creation are. I'd say most are wowed, because unlike most gods Luna has pretty incredible brand recognition - everyone's seen the moon - but it's the kind of wowed that is like 'wow, your dad's a global celebrity?' wow rather than 'my life is yours, god-queen' wow. Without stigmata or performing feats before them, and with an inherited reputation from far away, it's kind of hard to impress people with your divinity.>Not a Lunar, but her hair is woven moonlight and her eyes literally show the full moon instead of normal human irises.They're going to peg you as a god. This sounds like Appearance 5+ so they're also going to be begging to kiss your feet by default. >would people be thinking "this is too close to Anathema for my tastes" and keep their distanceNah, the stigmata's wrong for Lunars, and Luna isn't hated. The Anathema are baddies because they stole power from benevolent Moon and King of the Heavens, who rule over those places above. The Incarnae are the good guys in Immaculate lore - not moral paragons like the Immaculate Dragons are, but beings of authority with jobs to do. Uneducated peasants will probably sus you as something, but they'd sus anybody as something - demon, Anathema, ghost, whatever, normies a'fearing is the common reaction. The shamans and priests'll have the Occult to peg you as godblood, and godblood of Luna is basically equivalent to being divinity yourself.>Would a Lunar regard her as anything more than an idle curiosity?Yes, of course. She's the child of their god.>Luna of course isn't going to offer her any actual favor.That's not an 'of course'. Lunars picked up their yandere from Luna, in case you hadn't realised - Luna getting attached to some particular kid of hers despite abandoning others to the wilds wouldn't be strange.
>>93334470>Yes, of course. She's the child of their god.This is perhaps the one I'm going to question. I mean, yeah, direct blood relationship to Luna is nifty, but an Exalted is Chosen, bearing radiant glory and infinite power, while a god-blood is nothing more than the result of casual, every day sex (or possibly something more arcane because gods are weird). Why should a Lunar put this kid born of happenstance on any kind of pedestal?>That's not an 'of course'. Lunars picked up their yandere from Luna, in case you hadn't realised - Luna getting attached to some particular kid of hers despite abandoning others to the wilds wouldn't be strange.I feel like doting on her irrelevant mortal kid is probably gonna be pretty low on the likelihood of randomly selected Luna behaviors.
>>93334542>randomly selected Luna behaviorsNow I'm imagining Luna spinning a roulette wheel saying "What will I do with my daughter today" listing a thousand options like "go hunting with them" "ignore them" "cast them into the Wyld and see if they survive" "confuse them with weird mystic hallucinations" "introduce them to Gaia" "eat them" "make them fall in love" etc.
>>93334542>I feel like doting on her irrelevant mortal kid is probably gonna be pretty low on the likelihood of randomly selected Luna behaviors.Sure, but there's at least as good chance that Luna's going to feel some way towards the child as feeling nothing. You could randomly select from a lot of those behaviours, but even a lot of the ones, even the traumatizing ones, would be interpreted as favors from Luna. As examples, throwing her into her private preserve of ahistoric monsters and letting her grow up among the beasts, which teaches the strength and iron will of a survivor while also enforcing a minimum level she'd have to be to survive. Handing her off to a mortal family or tribe is a blessing upon them that sees them revered by their community, such that she grows up with the best education and privileges that can be had. Handing her off to her pet fae puts her into the deep end of hyper-complex political strangeness and involves growing up among warriors, such that when she's gone out to explore the world she's probably at least an above average fighter, courtier, and occultist in mortal courts, even if she's missing strange bits from poor deals made in her early life.
>>93334578She is not even mad, she is jus bored and this is the only way she found to keep herself entertained.
>>93334699I don't remember much about the god blooded but wouldn't they be weaker than an exalted unless they also have a huge XP boost? also what the fuck would her power set be like given how she should have access to all lunar charms on top of the god blooded bullshit?
>>93334970God-bloods are barely above mortal and nothing even vaguely like an exalt. They'd be lucky to learn even 10 charms across a regular human life. But with a nature as limitless as an incarnae, those charms could essentially be anything.
Thoughts about house Cynis?>>93334970Apparently some lucky ones are as strong as a Dragon-Blooded, but most are basically mortals with minor blessings.
>>93297170Could homebrew combat charms that require multiple combat abilities be a practical way of motivating players to choose more than one combat ability?Like a brawl/melee charm would be generating energy punch daggers that boost your damage/accuracy more than the corresponding solar hero charm.
Personally I always put one or two points in martial arts or archery for my warrior exalted because it would feel weird that my char that is supposed to be an experienced fighter doesn't know how to use a bow or break his way out of a headlock.
>>93336152Why? That just means everyone has to take multiple combat abilities and you'd only do that if you only want combat.
>>93333424What was their scavenger son's depiction? I refuse to read that book.
>>93336695Why do you refuse to read that book, anon?
>>93334406Depends. It will vary immensely based on how god-blooded work in your creation. If they're restricted to Canon eclipse charms for example they'll never come close to even a dragon-blooded in power, in 3e anyway. As for 'not a lunar'? I'll be honest dude if I was a creationite and saw a silver haired girl with moon powers I'd run a fucking mile. I think anyone who believes in anathema would assume she was an Int 1 Lunar forgetting to disguise herself.
This game line feels weird. For it being so progressive it really feels not like that at all. For fucks sake, slavery is still a thing in this setting. It's not even a focus for the game, you're expected to glance past it.
>>93334970>given how she should have access to all lunar charms on top of the god blooded bullshit?That's not a given though. Lunar charms aren't eclipse charms.
>>93336711Personal reasons. It seemed to give Holden the entire wrong idea of what exalted is like, as he kept complaining the other books weren't like it.
>>93336818Why would it focus on it? Slavery was only abolished in the west a few centuries ago. There are literally millions of slaves owned across the world right now.
>>93333424I have no problem with Raksha being mind-eating antagonists, but I still find it ironic that the Fair Folk are supposed to be chaotic and varied but 95% of them share the same goal of eating dreams.
>>93333519So are Raksha supposed to be a subset of the Fair Folk that take on a relatively fixed form?I always assumed that the Fair Folk name encompassed any creature that came from the Wyld and that Fair Folk, Fae, and Raksha are all synonyms.
>>93336944>entirely wrong idea Lol no. He was complaining that Exalted is a mythology game about kung fu demigods founding kingdoms and religions and people had turned it into a Dragonball Z game where 99% of the setting focus [the Realm, armies, etc] was irrelevant because the only things that mattered were ultra-powerful singular entities capable of soloing the entire rest of the setting [including the returning Solars]. He was lamenting the fact that a game like that had devolved so thoroughly into being Nobilis people could argue with a straight face that ‘statting mortals in Exalted is like statting grass’. Despite the game and the authors beating it into your head there are tiers of kung fu and “immune to arbitrary numbers of proles” is about three quarters of the way up, not the bottom. A game that made all the location write-ups moot because the only thing players cared about was Yozi, Elder Exalts, and metaphysics. The epic scope of Exalted where a Solar could stroll up to a kingdom and conquer it with sword, army, and charisma had been somehow made SMALL in comparison to the game as it had become imagined. Ichigo and Inuyasha now seemed irrelevant for the crime of not being Goku. Holden was 210% right about this.
>>93336818Where do you get that the world is progressive?If you mean that the devs are trying to sugarcoat the setting to be more progressive, then sure. But other than the whole point is that there's a lot wrong with Creation and it's up to (your) character to fix all these problems (or just become a gigantic Mary Sue).
>>93336944What counts as "the entire wrong idea of what exalted is like"?>>93337031Holden wasn't wrong about that, but considering some of the late 2E material he was involved in writing, I'm not sure if he was the right person to make those complaints.
>>93337072I think it’s because he realized what he’d done that he had these views. I think he’s taken it a little too far though and some of the esoteric later stuff can be reconciled to Exalted with more work. But overall, his point that the game had turned into something it wasn’t really supposed to be he was completely right about. Every time someone says “armies and logistics are pointless in Exalted” I die a little.
>>93337051It's definitely always been progressive in the sense of ethnic and sexual representation, at least. Like, putting a black woman on 1E Core's cover was surely a decision intended to make a statement.
>>93337031That's not the part I have a problem with at all. Rest assured. I've just been given the impression that his fascination with mudcore came from scavenger sons. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be. I agree with him on those thematic/scaling problems, it's implementation details and a few specific choices that I have beef with him over.>also pick up the phone it's for you
>>93336985There is still slavery in the West. Just look at the Coral Archipelago.
>>93337187U witty tyke. Classy response.
>>93337183Just read it. His fascination is with the old timey pulp setting it describes. I’ve only skimmed parts of it but what I’ve read is pretty good.
>>93337183When has Holden ever pushed mudcore in Exalted?
>>93337196I got that feeling from Ruins of Rathess as well. I feel like Exalted was pulled too far back though, and the real problem is with presentation rather than power though.
>>93337031>A game that made all the location write-ups moot because the only thing players cared about was Yozi, Elder Exalts, and metaphysicsDoesn’t this also applies to 3e Lunars' dominions? With the exception of Iscomay for the wrong reasons.
>>93337101>Like, putting a black woman on 1E Core's cover was surely a decision intended to make a statement.It is white wolf, nearly every thing they do is a political or anti-D&D statement.Some times really shallow or nonsensical, like the list of influences of exalted.
>>93337298What's shallow and/or nonsensical about the lust of Exalted influences, anon, and why is that shallowness and/or nonsensicalness either political or an antid-DnD statement?
>>93337024Fair Folk are specifically RakshaFae are Raksha and whatever the hell else is from the Wyld.
>>93337316"Exalted is a contrarian fantasy, instead of being influenced by Tolkien like D&D, it pulls from the gods of pergana*,The Dying Earth** and the gray mouser!***"*from where Gygax too a good chunk of the monster manual from.**The work D&D magical system is named after.***pic related.
>>93337298Yeah the list of influences on Exalted is so fucking hilarious. Exalted was the one that made me realise 70 percent of that material is entirely just "it's a thing we like at the moment guise" rather than helpful guides for the setting. For every Tanith Lee's Flat Earth or Black Company you'd get three examples of fucking THIEF THE DARK PROJECT, Final Fantasy 7 (literally only Cloud's sword would be relevant to the core book), Grave of the Fire Flies - LITERALLY ONLY RECOMMENDED BECAUSE IT'S AN ANIME,
>>93337359How the fuck is listing works that have obviously influenced Exalted in the list of works that have influenced Exalted either shallow, nonsensical, political or anti-DnD? Do you not know what the words you use mean? There's obviously been a lot of anti-DnD sentiment in Exalted as well, which to an extent is fine, but the listed influences aren't that. Should 1E devs have lied and listed works they weren't in influenced by to be less contrarian?
>>93337399Grave of the Fireflies was admittedly pretty funny. It wasn't there just because it was anime, it was there to show that anime' serious business and not just for kids!
>>93337399>just "it's a thing we like at the moment guise" rather than helpful guides for the setting.The mind flayers are based on the cover of this book.>Final Fantasy.The materia also influenced the Hearthstones.But the ones from super Nintendo are more exalted like in feel.>>93337419The irony."We aren't like the other game!!!" *proceed to use the works that most influenced the other game in question*.There's also the fact that they think they think of themselves as iconoclasts for using Conan and Moorcock.
>>93337582>The irony.>"We aren't like the other game!!!" *proceed to use the works that most influenced the other game in question*.>There's also the fact that they think they think of themselves as iconoclasts for using Conan and Moorcock.It feels like you didn't even bother reading the post you replied to. Exalted is dissimilar to DnD in a lot of ways. It also draws in part on the same influences. There's no contradiction in that. Listing inspirations and highlighting differences from DnD aren't the same thing - Exalted has done both, but they are two separate things. I've never seen any evidence of Exalted devs considering themselves iconoclasts for using Conan and Moorcock, either.
>>93337625>It feels like you didn't even bother reading the post you replied toThe same can be said of you.We were talking about how the writers behave, not about what they wrote in the game.WW have a swallow view of D&D, always decrying it.They claim they are better than it because they used non-tolkien sources.But the irony is that those same sources were the biggest source of inspiration for D&D.>I've never seen any evidence of Exalted devs considering themselves iconoclasts for using Conan and Moorcock, either.They do, when they sell the game.
>>93337685>They claim they are better than it because they used non-tolkien sources.No, they claim they're different from DnD, which they are. They also say they use non-Tolkien sources, which they do.>But the irony is that those same sources were the biggest source of inspiration for D&D.There is no irony, because Exalted doesn't actually claim that its sources are what differentiates it from DnD, and because it legitimately takes things to a pretty different direction from DnD. Also since when is Tanith Lee, probably the biggest literary influence for Exalted among the biggest sources of inspiration for DnD?>They do, when they sell the game.Where do they do this?
>>93337747>No, they claim they're different from DnD, which they are. They also say they use non-Tolkien sources, which theyAnd they dismiss D&D for it.Did you miss the whole "graduate your game" debacle?>Where do they do this?When they sell exalted, everything they describe their product, they are selling it.>There is no irony, because Exalted doesn't actually claim that its sources are what differentiates it from DnD,There are, specially when they describe the sorcery being based on Dying Earth.
>>93337031Are we going to ignore that he 5000% contributed to this? All of his solar charms all of his shit in the return of the scarlet empress, infernals and ink monkeys? He wrote a lot of parts that were toxic to the gameline and then tried to pretend it didn't exist.
>>93337846Why the fuck do you think the "graduate your game" thing was based on the respective influences behind Exalted and DnD? And where is sorcery described as being based on Dying Earth? And where is Exalted sorcery somehow being based on Dying Earth stated to be an important thing distuingishing Exalted from DnD?
>>93337359>"Exalted is a contrarian fantasy, instead of being influenced by Tolkien like D&D, it pulls from the gods of pergana*,The Dying Earth** and the gray mouser!***"who has said this other than the voices in your head
>>93337878It is like those capeshit writers who complain about the state of the industry, despite themselves being themselves the responsible.Like how they made the DC dark and edgy, so they could write a dark and edgy story (Infinite Crisis) about how the DC went dark & edgy.Years later they repeated the process.
>>93338021It's weirs, but some part of /exg/'s userbase, or at the very least one frequent poster, seems to have bit of a jumbled mess of ideas dominating their view on Exalted. Like, components of this mess are in themselves true, but they're combined in ways that are often bizarre and sometimes seem almost arbitrary. In this case, it's true that the works listed are among Exalted's inspirations - well, it' partially true, Dying Earth actually isn't listed in 1E Core's suggested resources - and it's true that Exalted has at times had a bit of a complex towards DnD, but it obviously doesn't follow from this that the inspirations behind Exalted are the reason for this complex.
>>93338021By Stephenls over something awful, unfortunately I can enter the thread now.Also, according to him "having design goals" is against Morke's creative vision.
>>93338181Is this the same kind of thing as an anon's claim a few threads back about devs supposedly not knowing what a feint is, which apparently was also stated on a SA thread that was conveniently impossible to locate? Also did you know that Sheppard is an editor and I guess an occasional writer, but not a dev?
>>93338194It's not impossible to locate. The Something Awful Forums are occasionally unreadable to people who don't have an account to encourage people to register. And most people aren't willing to shell out 12 bucks to win an argument.
>>93338194I tried the find it too, but only found something about the martial arts divide (Merit vs charms vs ability rating) and something hard to understand since the posts lacked context.
>>93338181Can't find a single post like that in that thread.
>>93339060Which one did you search? It is in the one where he talked about Christmas presents.
>>93339175Could you be more specific? The Exalted thread was the obvious one I looked at, so are you saying he posted this in the World of Darkness thread or what
>>93339241There are 2 exalted threads, I think the posts I saw are only from the old one.
>>93339276I'm not going to buy archive access to look at it.
>>93339397Ok.Talking about archives, some "thus spake" are empty, not the Grabowski ones.
>>93338100Got other examples?
>>93333519It's a shame really, there's a lot of really cool badass charms in both books. The one where anchor yourself to a mortal and become their pseudo imaginary friend is stupid fun.
>>93337031This is why you should make your rules line up with your lore.
Idea for a weird little town/Solar tomb:A wood aspected manse that drowns intruders in a floral scented fluid. When a scavenger lord discovered this after the rest of his crew drowned in the stuff, he realized it would be very profitable to sell the stuff as a high end perfume.At first the community that built up around the tomb would raid nearby settlements for victims, but as the town grew in size they found that they usually had enough criminals to simply use the tomb as an execution method, but when they merchant caravan that they sell to is scheduled to arrive soon and they are low on perfume, the town is still a dangerous place to pass through.
>>93342516Seems like a good location.
>>93342516The tomb seems quite appropriate considering the type of defenses that Nexus tombs have. Harnessing ancient supernatural works for a totally different purpose in the present is a theme that fits perfectly with Exalted.I would say it's an interesting idea.
>>93342516I think it's pretty good, yeah, may or may not steal it actually
>>93343952The one they use to power furnaces definitely inspired me, I figured surely other ones could be repurposed for something useful.
>>93341640>White Wolf>Knowing how to do rulesExalted is barely playable in every edition.
What's the exalted equivalent to cultivation?
>>93346537Nothing.
>>93346537It isn't really xanxia, despite certain weirdnesses of 3e.
>>93346537An Enlightened Mortal Exalting and progressing towards in Essence is the closest equivalent. They can also just become a god purely by mastering more Essence but that’s usually less impressive then being an Exalt. Though through a very odd chain of events it is possible to>Start as a mortal>Enlighten your Essence>Progress your Essence to 4, becoming a god>Expand your purview to raise your Essence to 6>Get two promotions by the Bueraceacy to become Essence 8>Inherit the panoply of a Celestial IncarnaeTo go from mortal man to the Sun without ever once touching an Exaltation. The likelihood of this ever happening is slim but possible. A lot of gods [notably Ahlat] started as very weak local gods before becoming powerful celestial deities through processes like the above and there’s nothing in lore preventing a mortal elevated to local god from pulling the same shit.
>>93346537Raising your essence level.
>>93346665I mean it in the sense of mortal training and life extension they can achieve on their own, it doesn't need to be a 1/1 thing.
>>93346777Like this anon said >>93346723Igniting Essence would be the core formation.Becoming a god is like archiving the first form of immortality.
>>93346537Enlightened mortals trying to reach god/demon/ghost/fae/whatever-hood
>>93346887>ghostHow powerful can a non oblivion aligned ghost get?
>>93346953I don't actually think there's much difference in power compared to the standard sort, though I'm also pretty sure you'll be aligned to oblivion whether you like it or not, though I'll admit to not being too familiar with the Abyssal side of Exalted Deep Lore™
>>93346887It will forever remain hilarious to me that if you had a ghost in your family tree you just fucking drop dead upon reaching the highest tier of mortal enlightenment
>In Art Direction>Ex Essence Pillars of Creation– Sketch fixes and first round of finals incoming.
>>93346953Essence 9, all traits at 9, with a shit-tonne of arcanoi that do good stuff beyond that. What can Essence 9 Arcanoia do? Fuckknows, make it up. We know ghosts can theoretically progress into elder Essence through some means that isn't spending experience, we know that if you die then your ghost naturally spawns at (Your Essence minus One), and we don't know any arcanoi for essence over 5. Even Essence 5 arcanoi are very thin on the ground. Further, a lot of the strongest non-oblivion aligned ghosts are going to be the ghosts of people who were powerful in life, which means they'll often have been buried with powerful First Age treasures in tombs that are usually manses like >>93342516, scaled up into Underworld fortresses and palaces.I'd expect them to be on par with second circle demons at their essence ratings. Their highest essence ratings would be higher than the highest second circle demons, so the strongest non-oblivion ghosts would smash the strongest second circle demons. I don't think they match up 1v1 to 3CD unless there's extra circumstances involved like with the Dual Monarchs, but I don't think they'd die instantly and I think in a team they'd be up for it. This has essentially made them non-entities compared to the Deathlords, who 1v1 Yozi.
>>93326051Be willing to improvise, but don't be afraid of just telling your players "This is a political game set in Wu Jian" or "This is a game about trying to solve the Bronze Tide migration".
Why are Infernals important? Feels like a hundred Dragonblood akuma would be better than the entire roster. You can't even call it a lifespan issue when Infernals were only planned to survive to 150.
>>93352045Lore wise, exalted akumas are in a weird place.But one of the advantages of Infernals is that they aren't sock puppets.
Do you use automatons in your campaigns?
Okay so I haven't played exalted in literally 15 years. What is the problem everyone has with 3e? If I'm looking to get back into ti should I just ignore 3e and go for 2e instead? does 2e still have awful balance issues? I remember back in my day the issue was "perfect defenses" and how you basically had to have one up every round or else you'd get one-shotted by any even modestly competent enemy.
>>93353480>What is the problem everyone has with 3e?In a nutshell: Years long gulfs of time just to release splatbooks ranging from Exigents giving you permission to make up whatever the fuck you want using examples that have absolutely no thematic cohesion, to 3e core itself being unable to decide if Dragonblooded should be resolved in Mass Combat or not. Bland fluff that can't tell the difference between mystique and brevity but does have time to go out of it's way to whitewash both characters as well as setting to suit current year moods (hint: The fucking Shoat of the Mire looooooves the Dowager in 3e), punctuated by the devs complaining about wordcount limits while simultaneously filling AT8D with cuisine. Mechanics that consist of a mixed bag in which combat solves rocket tag in exchange for being all-or-nothing where you either smash someone in an alpha strike or are mathematically unable to harm the other guy (also it asks you buy a new resource, Initiative, as being a thing), social shit is largely functional but does attempt to pigeonhole characters down to a couple of sentences which can be used to pick them apart psychologically, and Craft is a fucking nightmare.>If I'm looking to get back into it should I just ignore 3e and go for 2e instead?
>>933534803e is the bane of nogames and culture warriors because it has some lore changes (proven by the above poster), which is mostly what this thread bitches about. Otherwise it is still broken, but mostly in regards to subsystems like Crafting and Naval Combat. I'd recommend Essence, but 3e itself is fine.
>>93353480I'd recommend at least reading 3E. Not everyone has a problem with 3E, but a lot of the people ho do gather here. I like it well enough, myself, but I like it despite some pretty heavy flaws. It's got an absolutely ridiculous number of Charms, with individual Charms often bein g far too narrow in their effects for my taste. A lot of the systems are clunky and needlessly complicated. Still, it's a playable games. There's an official lighter, more streamlined alternative to 3E - which still isn't rules-lite so much as medium-crunch, mind you - called Exalted Essence, which might also be worth checking out.
>>93353666>Exigents giving you permission to make up whatever the fuck you wantcool, I didn't know Exigents gives me a complementary mind control device to use on my ST.
>>93353480>If I'm looking to get back into it should I just ignore 3e and go for 2e instead?fuck, meant to say: If you're willing to learn an entirely new system and basically ignore all the fluff that contradicts what you liked about the game the Supernal mechanic lets Solars grab world-shaking power from chargen, sorcerous workings allow for ritualistic freeform reality warping like what sorcery was hyped up to be but never quite delivered in past editions, there are some effective and funny abilities like Sidereal Thrown or Abyssal Ride, and for no good reason large animals/enemies in general have super armour via the Legendary Size mechanic (there are also apparently sizes larger than Legendary Size the game occasionally alludes to but is utterly vague on what that entails. Other than, presumably, you cannot just hip toss them with Dragon Coil Technique)If not, stick with 2e because dear god the 3e fanbase has been buckbroken into avoiding any criticism of 3e and talking to them is like talking to the indoctrinated workforce of some dystopian regime. Honestly it comes down to how much you hate rocket tag. If you really hated it, 3e offers alternatives. If you and your group can RP around it in good faith, stick with what you've got because what's to come isn't looking any better.
>>93353702That's not what I said it does, retard. I'm saying it shows you Janest, Pakpao and the cumbath queens, and then pretends like after reading about all of them you suddenly know how to build (Exigent you actually want to play)
>>93353480Learned the wrong lessons from 2e era, lack of certain subsystems, too much weight is on the ST's back, lack of a proper ST guide, overcorrected genuinely/perceived mistakes, "Lunars", too many new exalt-types at once, broke some stuff by fixing what wasn't broken, combat systems is only good for duels and the Solar charmset has notorios holes, despite the 200+ pages of Charms.Also, the ST guide (Crucible of Legends) doesn't help at all.
>>93353679>Naval Combat...people actually engage with the Naval Combat system at all? I always assumed people ignored that shit and mass combat'd the ships.>>93353681As someone who read 3e, it particularly frustrates me that for every good idea I found there were three more that made me wonder what the hell the writers were thinking. I'd have absolutely recommended someone read it anyway to get an objective point of view if I didn't have such a dismal experience I've given up on finishing AT8D past the sorcerer-ruled kingdom out of sheer ennui.Good mechanics or bad mechanics, is something profoundly wrong with an Exalted book if you're too bored to finish it.
>>93353762I liked At8D, myself. I think it compares well to the better setting books of the past editions.
>>93353719>If not, stick with 2e because dear god the 3e fanbase has been buckbroken into avoiding any criticism of 3e and talking to them is like talking to the indoctrinated workforce of some dystopian regime.Come on, man, if you piss on 2e's system and lore in here, somebody will argue with you endlessly about how it was actually amazing that the Terrestrial Compass books read like chatgpt wrote them or that social combat was filled with too much save or suck nonsense.
>>93353758>combat system is only good for duelsStill don't understand what people mean by this, considering that every argument that it doesn't hinges on the idea that the ST is filling the battlefield with non-battlegroup chaff.
>>93353820Not even with non-battlegoup chaff, as real chaff would be trivial opponents. The idea hinges on the ST specifically filling the battlefield with easy initiative fodder.
>>93353787I wouldn't. Because nothing, nothing 2e has ever offended me as much as Crucible of Legend. However, nor would I defend the Terrestrial Compass books or social combat. 2e was absolutely a flawed product but at least it and 1e made me feel invested in the world it portrayed, which is more than I can say for 3e.>>93353782Strongly disagree solely because of the North section being fucking boring. Credit where it's due I liked the pre-human swap civ, the wolf civ, the civ an orphaned pantheon barged into and the sorcerer civ but like...where's the inhuman giant roving behemoths? It's all well and good to make local politics important again, but after a while I want more of a sense the world is still untamed and full of the inexplicable.
>>93353702>cool, I didn't know Exigents gives me a complementary mind control device to use on my ST.The worst part is that people genuinely think this.
>>93353892>Strongly disagree solely because of the North section being fucking boring. Credit where it's due I liked the pre-human swap civ, the wolf civ, the civ an orphaned pantheon barged into and the sorcerer civ but like...where's the inhuman giant roving behemoths? It's all well and good to make local politics important again, but after a while I want more of a sense the world is still untamed and full of the inexplicable.why are you looking for those in a setting book and not the bestiary book
>>93353892>Strongly disagree solely because of the North section being fucking boring.I agree that North is boring, and same goes for West. Everything from East to Southwest is pretty neat, though. It's not a flawless book, but neither were the setting books of previous editions, and being mostly good is still enough to compare favorably.>It's all well and good to make local politics important again, but after a while I want more of a sense the world is still untamed and full of the inexplicable.I get that, but this is a book about cultures and societies, and I think it's understandable that its focus is on these things and, consequently, on locations without the kinds of supernatural dangers that'd prevent human societies from surviving. The untamed parts of the world are for different books to handle.
>>93353950Because even the incompetence of the Terrestrial books in 2e managed to sneak in a Behemoth or three here and there. The setting lacking interesting entities is a flaw for the setting book.
>>93353968Call me unreasonable, but I was always more interested in the nonhuman cultures of Exalted than the human ones. The Dragon-Kings, the Mountain Folk, the fae. Part of the problem is there AREN'T a lot of books in the 3e pipeline to pull a (hopefully more competent and less up it's own ass) Graceful Wicked Masks, 3e's publishing schedule is much slower and we already got both Adversaries and Night Parade so I find it difficult to have faith the setting will be expanded further anytime soon. So what I'm assessing is what we've got, and I wish what we got had fewer human societies and more elemental courts.
>>93354010>>93353968The creatures, settings and societies aren't separated, one is part of the other.Otherwise you get the more traditional fantasy.
>>93354074Well, however that might be, At8D is still a lot more magical than Scavenger Sons.
>>93354117Not really, since only a few people of single location are capable of doing thaumaturgy.
>>93353892I'll never understand why Ascension, the most remote and distant city in the entire seting, the one that's cut off from everywhere else by the frozen wastes of the northern tundra, was described as cosmopolitan and frequently visited.
>>93354245Representativity.The real weird thing is that they also homogenized some of the other locations, turning them in "old expansionists with succession crisis".
>>93354339>The real weird thing is that they also homogenized some of the other locations, turning them in "old expansionists with succession crisis".Funny how in their attempt to give players a wide range of things to do, they ended up giving them one thing to do in differnt backdrops.
>>93354170fuck thaumaturgy, I don't give a shit. so many people in this fandom bitch and moan about mortals not being able to make a sword that's not very heavy or a hat that sparkles, and I'm so tired of it.
>>93355226It is the means that mortals interact with the supernatural, without it, the divide between the two growns.Turning the setting from "a magical world" into a "world with magic".Same thing happened when they removed the mortal magical martial artists.
>>93355543No its the means in which people do really boring shit. Learn sorcery or pray to a god or a ghost or a fucking raksha, it'll result in something much more interesting than "you can turn a botch into a mere failure once".
>>93355543You can also interact with the supernatural by just going out there and interacting with the supernatural. You know, by learning what appeases and pleases your local god, by cutting a deal with some Fair Folk, by having a nice chat with the ghost of your long-dead grandfather and beseeching him for wisdom from beyond the grave, stuff like that.
>>93355790Different kinds of interactions, stuff like the geomancy Iscomay uses to sustain itself.
>>93355931Geomancy Iscomay uses is obviously a thing in 3E, too.
>>93352045Couple of reasons, from a lore standpoint mostly to do things the akuma never could. The biggest two are the whole 'Back up psudo-Fetch souls' things that Infernals have going on for the Yozi and their ability to create new charms for the Yozi. The books flat out state as long as there are Infernals running around fetch death won't weaken them further and any new charms an Infernal develops the Yozi(s) who's themes they match up with will automatically steal to increase their own power. The third and more nebulous reason is that Infernals have free will, they can adjust their plans and do things the Yozi wouldn't think of in pursuit of their goals. The akuma can't do any of the above, the Yozi get a servant out of the deal....but one who's locked towards one goal that the Yozi picks at the time of the deal, locked into a single Yozi's power and can't grow it further, and doesn't actually get a Yozi anything more than a decently powerful servant while an Infernal both empowers and protects the Yozi just by existingFrom a more meta standpoint, they're important to represent the threat those 50 Solars the Yozi got as something more than just "Insane Solars, but green" or "Abyssals, but green", making them something new does something interesting with that plot thread... and lets them sell a new book
>>93353787I've seen people defend the Compasses of Celestial direction, but the best I've seen of Terrestrial ones were "It was meh" or more likely [insert long rant about how it just copied 1e]
>>93355226>>93355690>Being able to craft wards and banish spirits>Make stat enhancing potions>Summoning demons, ghosts, spirits, animals, and even other humans to you>Being able to predict and manipulate the weather>EtcNah, they were minor effects sure, but they were a cool little addition that showed how magic permeated the setting from top to bottom to the point it might as well not be magic to the inhabitants of the setting. I don't think they ever needed more than a few pages dedicated to them which is all they got, but like prayer mechanics, them just being there gave insight to how the common folk interacted with their world
>>93356784Thaumaturgy's cool in principle, but it being it's own separate thing instead of just something integrated into basic Abilities was a mistake. It's a magical world, and the upper end of mortal skill should be a bit magical, too.
>>93356933Depends, I can see the weather stuff as being separated.
>>93356933I don't really disagree with that, but it kinda was integrated? Or at least it was kinda integrated with an ability (occult) and a few attributes. I'm not actually sure there's a good way to have them as just the effects of high abilities though (I mean, you could put a lot of them under stuff like Occult or Lore or Medicine, what's a Throw Thaumaturgy ritual though? I guess it could be trick shots, but I'd sorta assumed that'd be covered by stunting?). I think just having them as a minor thing you could just do if you knew how and having high dots in the relevant rolls made you better at it was the best way to handle themThat said, I do agree that the upper limits on Abilities or Attributes should be borderline superhuman in Exalted
>>93347592Yeah being a ghost blood seems like a bad deal.Like IIRC a regular enlightened mortal just turns into a straight up god at essence 4, which seems clearly the best type of spirit to be.I'm pretty sure Demon-Blooded just turn into 1st circles since they're obviously not part of a soul hierarchy. Children of Elementals could eventually become dragons but creation is a dangerous place, especially for a naturally material creature that any sorcerer can trivially enslave.Fae-blooded I think can't go past essence 3? Wouldn't want to turn into a Raksha anyways, that's a kind of suicide, even more than turning into a ghost.Regular mortals and god-blooded get by far the best deal here.
>>93353820>>93353872nta. If you have non-battlegrouped third parties on the battlefield who are less powerful (at least on defense) than the main fighters, the system breaks down because one side has an easy source of initiative they can farm to blow up the meaningful fighters. If you have non-battlegrouped third parties who are as powerful (on the offense) as the top two fighters, the system breaks down again because committing to a decisive attack is suicide. Batltegrouped third parties either have no effect on the battlefield or instantly kill everybody on the battlefield with no in between and minimal interactivity, which is not in any way fun.3e's combat system is not good outside duels. In duels, I personally still think it sucks because I hate rocket tag funny number farmer zero sum gameplay.>>93355226It's mostly the wards, and to a lesser extent exorcism. Wards not existing in 3e in any meaningful manner undercuts a lot of setting assumptions. For example, why do cities exist now? They're just huge snack bars and without the big old wards around them stopping it anybody can slip in and take whatever they want, instead of having to be let in by subversives or whatever. Why are there so many unexplored places? Any spirit can walk through obstructions, there are no wards to stop them and anti-spirit manse effects are very rare. How is civilization not only surviving, but extending further into the edges of Creation in 3e? There are no wards protecting villages or towns from Wyld stuff anymore. Why are there mortal leaders anywhere? Mortals now have no way to deal with possessions since exorcists basically don't exist except around shadowlands, and have no way to stop people being possessed in the first place with no wards. Mortals have historically been able to deal with their problems. Cutting thaumaturgy snips away huge chunks of problems they used to be able to deal with, and not adapting the setting to those new assumptions hurts it's integrity.
>>93358168>For example, why do cities exist now? They're just huge snack bars and without the big old wards around them stopping it anybody can slip in and take whatever they want, instead of having to be let in by subversives or whatever.I'm trying to figure out where people got the impression that everyone lives a stone's throw away from the Wyld or a shadowland, that everything in those places is de facto hostile, and that mortals are incapable of handling the common threats that emerge from them such as hobgoblins or hungry ghosts (the only things that would be genuinely stressed by the kind of ward the majority of thaumaturges can put up in 2e; anything with a good WP pool is just going to cross them if it really needs to be there) with steel and numbers. Furthermore, I don't think 2e agrees with you on how many thaumaturges there are. Assuming a wall that's about the length of the old London wall (about 2.5 miles around), you'd need hundreds of thaumaturges to cover its span and, according to 2e, that's exceedingly rare; groups of thaumaturges above a few dozen are rare and those numbering in the hundreds even more so (especially outside of the Realm/Lookshy). Your view of the setting where a thaumaturge is as common as a smith or mason is headcanon.>Mortals now have no way to deal with possessions since exorcists basically don't exist except around shadowlands, and have no way to stop people being possessed in the first place with no wards. "Exorcists are uncommon, but not extremely so, and tend to be born near shadowlands" does not equate to "basically don't exist except around shadowlands".
>>93358791>Furthermore, I don't think 2e agrees with you on how many thaumaturges there are>Your view of the setting where a thaumaturge is as common as a smith or mason is headcanonWarding is the most common type of thaumaturgy by far. Oadenol's Codex pg123: "Nearly every village boasts a wise old mystic who could never afford a thaumaturgy license", and that's in the Realm where the practice is discouraged and unlawful without a license.>the only things that would be genuinely stressed by the kind of ward the majority of thaumaturges can put up in 2e; anything with a good WP pool is just going to cross them if it really needs to be thereCities tend to have old wards set up by the best people they can get access to. Mortal warders are typically only keeping out goblins and small evil spirits, okay - but the best warders aren't. Wards get put up centuries ago and then maintained.>groups of thaumaturges above a few dozen are rareThaumaturges being hired for a similar job are not mystic organizations.Also, it's bold of you to assume that 2e is the only edition which matters. 3e tries to harken back to 1e where it can, right? Wards are written in ways even more clearly fundamental to the setting there. 1e Player's Guide pg130: "Warding is the simplest of Arts, and in nearly every community, there will be a handful of people who at least know its basics," and also, "Maintaining the wards on a mansion will take one person a week's labor, while keeping the wards of a city strong might take 100 men the same time, spread throughout the course of a year". It seems clear that they're important and that people use them, no?>"Exorcists are uncommon, but not extremely so, and tend to be born near shadowlands" does not equate to "basically don't exist except around shadowlands".It does mean that when they also tell us that a "common" thaumaturgy would be one in ten thousand for the areas they tend to be born in. Exorcists are uncommon compared to that.
>>93358791>I don't think 2e agrees with you on how many thaumaturges there are.Nta, but in 2e it's noted thaumaturgy spread quite a lot post-Contagion, like if you can cite a page number giving specific rarities I'm all ears, but like, even a quick skim of the relevant sections of Oadenol's Codex and I'm seeing things like how almost every village has at least one guy who knows a few arts, or how it's often part of formal education (though getting a license is expensive), how there's usually about a dozen or so individuals who don't have a license for everyone who does, or even how post-Contagion it's almost as commonly used in places as it was in the First Age (where it's noted that practically every farmer and smith DID know some thaumaturgy)The impression I get is that it's not common, but common enough that you can usually rely on at least knowing somebody who knows somebody if you need access to it
>>93358791>Assuming a wall that's about the length of the old London wall (about 2.5 miles around), you'd need hundreds of thaumaturges to cover its span and, according to 2e, that's exceedingly rare; groups of thaumaturges above a few dozen are rare and those numbering in the hundreds even more so (especially outside of the Realm/Lookshy).This just seems completely wrong since wards can be made indefinite in 2e. A ward of any level or strength can be bound to a talisman to make it last forever, according to the text of Alarm Ward Maintenance, and Lesser Ward Maintenance and Ward Maintenance read 'As Alarm Ward Maintenance, but extending the duration of any Lesser Ward,' and 'Works as a Lesser Ward Maintenance except it applies to an Adept-level Ward'. You don't need more than one guy with enough time and effort if you want to ward a wall, regardless of it's length.Also since they last forever you can get your best guys on it. Maybe Lunars, Sidereals, gods, whoever, if you beg hard enough for them to drop around for a while you're golden for the next forever.
>>93358934>Mortal warders are typically only keeping out goblins and small evil spirits, okay - but the best warders aren'tSo, thaumaturgic warding is rendered superfluous to any real supernatural power, which any city worth its salt will obviously have access to. I'm really starting to see why 3e just doesn't bother and puts former thaumaturgic functions in bits of fluff instead of a dedicated subsystem.Also, I'm still wondering why these wards are necessary to the functioning of human society. The trivial things these wards spook off also tend to be fairly easily dealt with by just stabbing them to death and aren't exactly common in any case; hobgoblins and most other weird fae creatures can't range far beyond Wyld Zones and tend to only be a major threat when ordered around by the raksha (who are fairly rare after the Empress obliterated most of them and the Wyld started producing hannya), ghosts still can't cross salt lines, free-ranging demons are rare, and a malicious little spirit is the kind of thing that a spirit court or the Immaculates will deal with.
>>93359347>thaumaturgic warding is rendered superfluous to any real supernatural powerHow and where did you get that opinion from? It seems completely at odds with the bit you quoted and doesn't seem to match up with the mechanics, either.>The trivial things these wards spook off also tend to be fairly easily dealt with by just stabbing them to death and aren't exactly common in any caseNo, they're really not. Not all small things can be stabbed to death. You're really 3epilled if you think the only thing coming out of the Wyld is hobgoblins or that the Wyld is even the primary issue. >ghosts still can't cross salt linesYes, they can. Non-trivial ghosts spend a Willpower and walk over. Also, this is a ward, and in fact the only ward in 3e outside DB charms.>free-ranging demons are rareSaying they're rare is a bit like saying serial killers are rare. They're common enough and problematic enough when they do happen that everyone has to have a way to deal with them, and knows it.>a malicious little spirit is the kind of thing that a spirit court or the Immaculates will deal with.The Immaculates are mortals and also unreliable, and spirit courts aren't very involved on that level. Spirit courts are political groups, not police. How common do you even think either of these things are?
>>93359347>So, thaumaturgic warding is rendered superfluous to any real supernatural powerNo actually, it just lets them put up a powerful ward faster, a master warder will be tossing around enough dice to tell anything lower than essence 4-5 on an average roll to stay away. Given you can repeat and keep the best roll, a mortal with manipulation 2, occult 5, and a 3rd degree in warding could make a ward that can tell something Essence 10 to fuck off or eat some damage wearing it down, and that's assuming they don't have anything else to boost that roll. Higher stats just means you have to take less retries to get there and force more damage>I'm really starting to see why 3e just doesn't bother and puts former thaumaturgic functions in bits of fluff instead of a dedicated subsystem.I actually agree thaumaturgy doesn't need rules, they're nice to have, sure, but keeping them fluff would be fineWhat's not fine is the utterly stupid level of rarity they are in 3e>Also, I'm still wondering why these wards are necessary to the functioning of human society.It's pretty much the one tool mortals have against spirits or other immaterial beings. Even ignoring that it'd let even a (non-minmaxed) mortal mildly inconvenience and bruise things like Conky, the difference between having one guy a village who knows how to set up wards vs one guy in 10,000 who knows any bit of thaumaturgy is the difference between a village lasting long enough to get the word/prayer out vs any threat that can't just be stabbed being able to solo any mortal settlement that doesn't have a supernatural patron, that's ignoring how your massively underselling the threats a wyld zone or shadowland can represent, and the ways they can spreadAnd that's just warding, noting that stuff like blessing crops, rain dances, or astrology actually works and is a learnable skill is a good way of showing that Creation is a magical world, as opposed to a normal world with some magic in it
>>93356933>>93357096I honestly think weather stuff shouldn't be separate personally, but I do agree that some thaumaturgical rituals should not be the remit of Occult or Performance. I do, however, like the idea that a lot of thaumaturgy is regional because of local spirits giving blessings to areas and the like. Such that a great god of agriculture's Essence responds to the correct occult ritual to give a good harvest (obviously, the conditions here will have to be specific and have limitations). Puts more stock into mortals using gods to their advantage in wars and commerce, which the books DO present as being the case sometimes for certain places, just without much mechanical meat.
>>93358168>Wards not existing in 3e in any meaningful manner undercuts a lot of my headcanonftfy
>>93359963Undercutting many people's shared understanding of the setting matters when the setting is so fragmented by retcons, new takes, and intentional redesign.
>>93358791>I'm trying to figure out where people got the impression that everyone lives a stone's throw away from the Wyld or a shadowland, that everything in those places is de facto hostile,Thus spake Grabowski, outside of a few inches after the sea, everything is composed of "bronze" age barbarian tribes.
>>93360578>many people'sjust yours
>>93358934>3e tries to harken back to 1e where it can, right?Not really, it is just an unconvincing excuse to change things around.
>>93361108There were multiple people responding to you, anon.
>>93361130you wish
>>93361144>Everyone who disagrees with me is one person
Can mortals learn supernatural marital arts once they awaken their essence in 1e or am I mistaken?
>>93361975They can indeed do that. Players Guide pg233-234 is where the process is described from the narrative perspective. Relevant merits for mote pools and MA access are on pg120-121, and as a notable departure from 2e people often forget include a merit called The Flow of Essence, giving them attribute-based Excellencies with a dicecap of Essence+5.I honestly can't recall any Terrestrial Martial Arts outside Players Guide and Dragonblood, though.
>>93361975I'm pretty sure they can, though it's been a while since I checked and don't have my books on hand atm
>>93362119>Relevant merits for mote pools and MA access are on pg120-121, and as a notable departure from 2e people often forget include a merit called The Flow of Essence, giving them attribute-based Excellencies with a dicecap of Essence+5.Huh, that's actually pretty cool, IIRC 1E doesn't have Excellencies otherwise, right? Either way, looking at it it's a fun little merit, the WP and mote cost makes me envision it like pushing your mind, body, and/or soul past it's limits for just a moment to do something superhuman, very cool. Wonder why they didn't include anything like it in 2E?
>>93362119>>93362123Seems fair enough. I am just trying to see what they can do with their essence besides the smaller stuff like summoning animals.
>>93362275Yeah, pre-3E mortals could use essence for TMA charms, boosting thaumaturgy, first circle Sorcery/Necromancy, and artifacts. Basically enlightened mortals could use the same things any other essence user could, they just couldn't get the big stuff or have non-MA charms
>>93362238It had non-standardized ones*, I think they were standardized with Alchemicals.For example, Lunars had separate ones for ranged and melee attacks, and they costs varied between 1 or 2 motes per dice.
>>93362335Ah, so no (Ability) or (Attribute) charms, just specific charms on charm trees? That would explain things
>>93362475More or less, the Excellencies were individual atribute/ability charms, some more broad than others.
>>93362332>first circle Sorcery/NecromancyThat makes sense.
Thread hit the time limit.
where do you get your character art from?
>>93365124Random /a/ threads, mobile games, mobas, and social networks or sites like artstation
>>93366609New thread
