PanzerBlitz EditionWelcome to /bwg/! This is a general dedicated to all board wargames: hex and counter, CDGs, block wargames, and even more eclectic designs are all welcome here. Talk about anything here, from games you're interested in, organizing games over Vassal, Tabletop Simulator, or Rally the Troops with other anons, or just general discussion about wargames.>/bwg/ Recommended Games Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/FsEawuX3>Links to Vassal Engine and Moduleshttps://vassalengine.org/https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules>Link to Rally the Troopshttps://www.rally-the-troops.com/>Thread Question Board wargaming has been around a long time. Do you find yourself drifting more towards modern designs or do you prefer the classics?
>>93302999Well the chits and the maps seem to be within the old magazines, which are available in /hwg/
>>93304693I'm too new at this for having preferences. Tough not havign to search in parking lots and interact with boomers to get a game seems a big plus for the modern stuff.
>>93305804For me it’s hunting down rules. A lot of modern games have their rules posted online.It’s a lot more sporadic for anything from the 70s and 80s.
Dead GeneralDead GamesDead Players
>>93304693Isn´t this what /hwg/ is for?
>>93304693Realized I forgot to link to the previous thread >>93240678>>93306398Historical Wargames General is largely dedicated to miniature wargaming. No one talks about hex and counter or other board wargames there.This thread is attempting to give those kinds of games their own space.
>>93306492No, they are also discussed there, they just come up less often.
>>93306851Exceedingly rarely and usually drowned out by miniatures discussion. They are not the primary focus of that general.
What's the best and most fun warplane/fighter game? Or one about torpedo boats.
>>93306868>What's the best and most fun warplane/fighter game?Solo or multiplayer?
>>93306880I would prefer solo actually, but anything is fine. I'm of the mind of making an area 88 solo gome or something like that (perhaps sci fi fighters instead of planes) and looking for inspiration.
>>93306907Well, there are a few options I’d consider. For solo air combat games there’s Skies Above the Reich and the more recent Skies Above Britain. Both are well tutorialized and reasonably straight forward. They do some very interesting things with how they present 3D space. I’d also consider Nightfighter Ace and Western Front Ace too. Both games are more about experiencing a narrative of you pilot than crunchy decision making but that’s such a common mold for solo wargames that it should be observed regardless. There’s also RAF The Battle of Britain, but that’s more of a flight planning/interception game than a dogfighting game.Another game that I wouldn’t buy but at least look at visually is Wing Leader. It’s not a solo game, and it’s quite dense, simulationist fare that isn’t all that exciting imo. However it does do something that so many dogfighting games get wrong. It doesn’t treat the sky like it’s flat. It does this by only presenting aircraft relative to their vertical position to one another. Which looks really fucking weird but given that dogfighting is just about energy advantages it makes sense.
>>93307100Will look into it, thanks brup, Skies above the reich is the first I will look.
Anons! Kindly requesting retro m1nd3n games. TIA
>>93306398I have posted about H&C many times on /hwg/ and never got a serious response. That place only cares about miniatures (which is fine). This new general is much mor conducive to discussion of wargames.
>>93305851Anything from SPI or whatever is available because the company went under and the magazines are up for grabs. >>93307937Sometimes my work on cleaning up, converting my own H&C system gets some reaction, but rarely unless we talk about history or weapon systems.
>>93309716SPI mags are available but I thought a lot of the games got taken by Decision.
>>93307937Honestly you’d get a little more traction posting on /bgg/ than /hwg/ before. It still wasn’t great given their default recommendations were always Commands & Colors or COIN or whatever but it was still an improvement over being outright ignored.
>>93306868The Leader series games by DVG, They got from WW2 stuff up to modern planes
>>93310650Eh I’d only recommend Thunderbolt Apache specifically. It’s easily the best one. The rest of them are just variants of Hornet Leader and totally interchangeable, which isn’t that surprising given those two were the original games and everything after has been milking 30 year old ideas.
>>93310388Not to be too weird, but I never played those games and wonder where I should ask around to play them sometime.
>>93311540Both can be played over Vassal and Andean Abyss (the first COIN) is playable on Rally the Troops.
>>93311624>Rally the Troops.Ooh, whats dis.... *Looks*
>>93304693>Do you find yourself drifting more towards modern designs or do you prefer the classics?There’s a lot of great classic designs but many of them have gotten reprinted/remade or have a spiritual successor. Outside of that I think new games are generally better throughout the complexity spectrum.
Is Time of Crisis like Stilicho but not a solo game?
>>93312680I haven’t played Stilicho but Time of Crisis is wargame/deck building hybrid with a heavy emphasis on king of the hill style play.
>>93304693Old man so I stick to the classics.
It finally arrived
>>93313111>have to deal with WE WUZ BYZANTINES AND SHIET >but also big black booty Could be worse I suppose
>>93313111>>93313136Ok so components wise I’m definitely impressed. The counters are quite large and pre-rounded which is nice. The boards have nice art and finish on them without being the fucking gigantic mounted boards GMT use that can never stay down, and the player boards are actually welled, which I was not expecting. The only thing that’s meh is the cards. They’re pretty mediocre.
>>93314282Are the cards not thick? Will they not hold up to shuffling?
>>93314315They’re not bad enough that I’d say I feel the need to run out and sleeve them immediately but they’re definitely not GMT level cards that can survive a nuclear bomb going off either.
>>93314374that's good to hear component wise. It feels like playing russian roulette with compass products
>>93313136OK Hesh, Ill get Tont to talk to Junior about the tax on ya.
>>93314566>It feels like playing russian roulette with compass productsIts hilarious when you can tell Compass really tried with something and when they couldn't give a single flying fuck.
>>93314700i wish their prices reflected that
>>93314741I refuse to buy any new games from them because of it. I always wait for a good little while to see the reception.
Would anyone be interested playing Deep Rock Galactic on Tabletop Simulator? They have a bunch of neat content on there that hasn't been released in physical format, like the abyss bar stuff.
>>93314805I'd say your best bet for something like that would be the Tabletop Sim thread on /vm/.
>>93314834Thanks
Does Pendragon: The Fall of Roman Britain deserve to be talked about here or on the board game place?
>>93315398Given that the OP recommended list includes COIN games though its definitely acceptable here, and /bgg/ talks about COIN a fair bit (even if it also attracts a few schizos).
>>93315467This is a COIN game?
>>93315469Yes. A very weird one, but 100% a COIN game
>>93304693>/bwg/ Recommended Games Pastebin: Maybe it’d be easier to list series games as like their own section or something instead of pointing out specific one offs and mentioning they’re part of a series. Maybe even a description of their general concept.
>>93311086Fair point, but this way there is something for every taste. Like the upcoming Cold War goes hot Fulcrum and Eagle Leader
Is there a hex and chit styled game for modern (‘39 - now) combat where the chits are individual troopers? The Smallest scale I seem to find is 1/2 squads or squads instead of individuals.
>>93319703Individual soldier scale tends to be pretty rare and a lot of those games are either solitaire only or heavily abstracted. For multiplayer games there’s SPI’s Sniper and Up Front, the latter of which can be gotten as a PnP. For solitaire games there’s the classic Ambush! and it’s modern spiritual successor Combat!
>>93319981I love ambush and have been looking at contact - I was going to go for multiplayer but if I can’t find 40k games, I doubt anyone local would play hex and chit.Looks like combat is really the only game in town
>>93320080In the modern day, unfortunately so. It just never really caught on as a popular scale 40 years ago and I think that inertia (or lack thereof) carries forward to this day. Which is kinda odd. Ambush! and Up Front are two of the most beloved wargames to ever have existed, and yet it took about 40 years for those ideas to even be revisited (I had forgotten that Lock n' Load made an Up Front-esque game called Turning Point but I don't know much about it).
Are there any beginner wargames for 4 players? Most seem to be solo or 2p. Or are the mostly just coins?
>>93321091Time of CrisisSpace Empires 4X
>>93321091Friedrich
>>93312680No - not even close. TC is a deckbuilder with area control. Stilicho is States of Siege style. Both of the DeLeskie Hollandspiele games are good - Wars of Marcus Aurelius is probably the easier of the two.Fire & Stone is also pretty good but a bit light weight.
>>93319012True. It’s easy justifying one or two if you like them but I’ve seen a few people own them all and I just ask myself “why”?
These are the nicest counters I have ever seen in a wargame. Yes I know it’s not practically for most games to have them this big but damnit I like it
>>93324610What game is this? How is it?
>>93324683Burning Banners. My copy just arrived recently >>93313111>>93313136Basically its a fantasy hex and counter game in the vein of Divine Right. Pretty straightforward rules wise though the magic system throws a few wild wrinkles into it. There's also an impressive number of scenarios: A bunch of shorter one to two map scenarios and then a full campaign with 10 different start points. Also all four map boards don't fit on my usual table when fully linked.
>>93324060yeah, owning them all is kinda pointless. Although some of them do get a little twist, like the politics cards in Phantom Leader, the Cthulhu Conflict Expansion for Hornet Leader is great too and the upcoming Fulcrum Leader will have a Political Commissar card deck
>>93324943Some of the non-aircraft Leader games are also unique. Spruance Leader seems like a decently original idea.But still I look at stuff like Sherman Leader or whatever and I just have to laugh because it’s Thunderbolt Apache but on the ground.
>>93324785modern, in print divine right-like game? I'll have to get this now
>>93326747He even mentions Divine Right in his designers notes as one of his favorite games and the direct inspiration
>>93324785Looks cool, do you think it would serve as inspiration/base to get a "Dominions/Conqeust of elysium" like game out of it?
>>93328176It’s not really a 4X game
>>93326747Just don’t expect Compass to give you good shipping updates
>>93324610>>93324785they really did go all out on this game
>>93332085They did. It’s not only the nicest Compass production ever. It’s a strong contender for best wargame production ever.
What's everyone prefered Solo airplane game?I tried to play Schnell boats in Vassal and it lacked instructions and some tables so I don't think you can play it.
>>93333322Phantom or Hornet Leader. Simple to learn and fun.
>>93333322RAF The Battle of Britain
>>93333322skies above series
Is Age of Steam worth the hype?I've learned 4-5 18xx games, and I don't think they've got a good crunch/fun ratio. They work better playing online at (18xx.games). Yes I'm absolutely plugging that, it's one of the better dedicated game fan hosting projects.I've asked about better fun/crunch than 18xx but related to it, and the suggestions are other rail network games and something like Indonesia. I've got Indonesia on preorder already.
>>93335109Wrong tab. Clicked on "\tg\ - \b_g\ Board", sorry guys.
>>93335064>>93334519>>93333928Will look them on vassal, thanks lads.
>>93335109I prefer Age of Steam to 18xx because it's an easier teach and the same maps can be played different ways. I've played Rust Belt maybe 10 times and it's been different each time. I've played 1889 and Chessy a couple times and where and what you build depends 100% on what minors you end up with.I did get Railways of the Lost Atlas and enjoy that more than I have a lot of the other 18xx games. Easier teach without removing mechanics. I think I still prefer Age of Steam.
Cardhaus is having a summer sale
>>93337614That's cool and all but >pic related
>>93337762they have compass and gmt
>>93321091I wonder if anyone ever modernized this. It is close to a decade out of date at this point. Also weird to include Combat Commander and not also include Up Front.
Sexy WIP chitsAragón 1938 The time is 9 March 1938 @Romero_Wrg on twitter if you want to see what this is all about.
>>93340778There aren’t enough games on the Spanish Civil War.
>>93339937Is that because CDGs are a combination of cards and a map/board while Up Front is a pure card game?Same reason to exclude Down in Flames series
>>93343353That’s actually a very good point. Up Front abstracts everything while CC still has a lot of Squad Leader DNA in it
>>93332085Playing it some more I'm increasingly impressed. The objective was to make a hex and counter game that would be simultaneously accessible while also still being a proper wargame and not a wareuro (not that there's anything wrong with wareuros). So far I think he succeeded on all fronts. The game is very easy to learn even with the advanced rules but maintains the emphasis on maneuver and preparation that make wargame so compelling to play. And I still can't get over the player boards being welled, they really didn't need to do that but I'm glad they did. I really hope this and VUCA Sim's games finally get everyone off their ass and to start really prioritizing production quality.
Something I noticed about Kill or Be Killed (The system I converted over to H&C because it seemed really simple and easy to learn, but only could be easily playable and allow keeping track of what is going on with H&C....)So the thing I noticed is that a lot H&C games, and wargames in general, is that units often can shoot as far as they can move in one or two turns. However in Kill or Be Killed, most units by default move 40 meters a turn, and I for realism or math reasons have foot infantry only move SLOWER from that. Meanwhile, their ranges are 400 meters with "AK-47"s/AKMs and only climb higher and higher. Granted, they need to be in half range to do anything... But that's still 5 turns of movement.Are there a lot of H&C games like this?
>>93347181>Are there a lot of H&C games like this?I don’t think it’s common because of timescale. If a turn represents 5 minutes of real time then infantry can move pretty far. Then you have to consider that a lot of games have much shorter maximum ranges for weapons than the weapon can actually reasonably reach, because while an individual could perhaps hit a target 600 meters away with a rifle, actual effective fire during a firefight is a lot shorter. Lots of games will just cut out the middleman and prevent you from shooting that far away because realistically it’d likely do nothing. Put all of that through the lens of WW2, by far the most popular modern war for tactical wargames, and you get the movement/range values you see. As for counter examples, World at War ‘85 has some. Tanks in general would require about 4 turns to move their maximum range. For example the T-72 has a range of 24 hexes (representing 150 meters per hex) but it only moves 6 in a turn. Though, in that game infantry fire can usually only fire at a range of around 2 hexes with their small arms but can move 3. They’re likely way too fast.
>>9334767Well in five minutes, if you're moving and not returning fire, any platoon would be able to kill or wound a good number of you.For one you're not in cover.Kill or Be Killed has a +7 for having HMGs instead of +4 for having assault rifles. However, the system is a D10 and the penalty at maximum range is only -10.So if the infantry are good enough, and the enemy are cowards or lack armor, you can still get in hits for disruption at max range. I think the root of my concern is that a lot of systems remind me of 40K, with way too much charging people, despite all the machine guns. And this is because again, units can sometimes cross their max range in two turns.
>>93347946>I think the root of my concern is that a lot of systems remind me of 40K, with way too much charging people, despite all the machine guns. Which is why opportunity fire exists. Your squad will be suppressed or broken almost immediately if they try to charge across open ground with no cover or concealment in...basically every single tactical wargame post Squad Leader. And frankly, having by far the most damage be done at point blank range is true to life. I think you are massively overvaluing the effectiveness of long range small arms fire.
Thoughts on The Players Aid?
>>93348575They seem nice but most of their reviews are after playing the game a single time, sometimes not even the full way through. They also shy away from negative reviews because they don’t want to get blacklisted
>>93348922>The Players Aid?Yeah I thought they were okay. I prefer the channel that was behind Ravenfeast (Unless that was them?)
>>93348939I have no idea what that is but personally I like Ardwulf. He doesn’t do reviews but his counter clipping show where he talks about random topics is nice.Also he hates Martin Wallace even more than me which is funny
>>93349133https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIoGbrTVED8I was thinking of someone else. Ravenfeast is a regular wargame with minis, it's free and bare bones to be an entry level. Okay so Little Wars TV is the one I like. Got it.
Compass Games is more a "wargame printer" than "wargame publisher". Some of their games have no development, editing, playtesting and amateurish art design. We get more of the same output with little distinction and value. One positive practice is they will sent errata counters free of charge if required. However the company does reprint without incorporating latest errata or fixes. Pathetic
>>93349325That explains the sometimes weird spacing of TWWs manual. It seems poorly edited in some parts anyway. Like lots of repeating stuff that was mentioned a paragraph above
The Orcs proved themselves to be the superior raiders and conquerors than the Gobbos.
>>93349325>However the company does reprint without incorporating latest errata or fixesThere is a single advantage to this: unlike basically every other wargame publisher, they actually keep their games in stock with regularity. But other than that yeah I agree. Every criticism levied towards GMT goes triple for Compass. They're remarkably unprofessional in how they just churn shit out with no real care. Its fucking astonishing how well Burning Banners turned out.
>>93349325What are the good wargame publishers then?
>>93349882GMT, MMP, Vuca, Flying Pigs, Hexasim and Thin Red Line Games
>>93350021>Thin Red Line Games>never reprinting anything everThe games look good though. I also wish I could add LnL but their issues recently make it a tough recommendation.
>>93349676Compass is wildly inconsistent. We get the occasional well-produced games like Burning Banners, Crusades & Revolution and Granada. Majority of the rest are mid to low tier with a few being total turds. It shows their level of incompetence or outright lackadaisal publisher attention. Mind-boggling that we still see fanboys or Compass Groupies in the facebook groups or their townhall stream
>>93350081They even found a way to fuck up the reprints/remakes of old games. Outside of TWW which is nearly one to one with the original game (probably because Frank Chadwick was still involved with the project) every single one makes the game way bigger than it was originally >The Korean War went from 2 maps to 4 maps >Bar-Lev went from a couple hundred battalion scale counters to almost 2k company scale counters >NATO’s and Air and Armor’s rules have quintupled in size
>>93348575Fine on 1.5x speed. Ain't nobody got time for an hour long video where 45 mins of it is just of just their faces.
I need a boat/ship game anons, anyone has a prefered (if it can be, solo).
>>93352008Atlantic chase
>>93352008Flying Colors
>>93352270>>93352290Noted bros.
>>93352008>Task Force Carrier Battles in the Pacific>Carrier Battle Philippine Sea>Fleet series
>>93349658If you've played it, are there any similarities to Columbia Game's Wizard Kings (besides theme)?
One of the things that makes converting Kill or Be Killed to H&C weird... is that to make it work at a platoon scale... I find it's best to make hexes 125 meters.But the fastest a unit on foot can move, according to the rules, is 40 meters.So often I find turns are full of everyone shooting each other, then skipping multiple turns until someone has a clear shot or is in position to do something besides move.-The same RPG inspired another system, which inspired another wargaming system, where combat maps are more like this.In that system, each point on the map is just something important, each "round" is 3 days, and units can move from one point to another, but can attack up to three points away for a serious penalty. The penalty for max range is -4 instead of -10, but the d isn't a d10, but instead depends on what unit is attacking or defending. Lots of units are D10s and lots are less.
>>93354162Outside of obviously not using the classic Columbia block system, I’d say the biggest differences are in the sandbox. My experience with Wizard Kings is very limited but the vibe I got from it is that it’s really more of a fantasy wargame toolkit. The scenarios are almost non-existent so you have to come up with something yourself. It’s also seems to be a lot easier to turtle by stacking a bunch of units in one hex. If the scenario doesn’t incentivize aggression, I can see the game stalling in a Risk-esque fashion. Burning Banners on the other hand is not a sandbox. The maps aren’t geomorphic for starters, they only configure in one way. There’s also a lot of predetermined settlements that begin under the control of specific factions that form the core of their territory (though certain scenarios might have these settlements be under the control of a different faction or razed). So you can’t just slap some maps together and dump units onto them and play whatever you want.The trade off is that you get a far more structured and designed game. The designer actually did the art and the lore first and then crafted the game afterwards. So end up with a game that has 27 developed scenarios with their own unique setups, win conditions, and special rules. The first 17 scenarios are one offs that use one or two of the maps while the latter 10 use all four maps and can be linked together to play the titular 12 year long War of Burning Banners. Couple that with the stacking limit being 1 army per hex and a turn sequence that lets you build whenever you want and the game avoids the turtle issue.
>>93324785Is that stockcardboard like the the old squad leader boards? If so, very nice.
someone explain the counter clipping meme to me
>>93356932Assuming you mean the corner clipping there are two main reasons.It looks "clean"; the chits are often punched out of a stockcard, leaving ugly "ears" as a result.It helps keep stacks in stacks on the board. One of my first memories of this being a pita problem with unclipped chits, was when playing the third squad leader scenario (tractor works iirc). It has a large building as part of the scenario, with each hex stacked to allowance. Everytime anything had to be done with thos stacks, some corner of one chit would catch on the corner of another and create a mess.
>>93356932It is just neater and fulfil our inner autism
>>93355934I believe so yes. I vastly prefer this to the bricks GMT sells people. They actually lie flat out of the box.
Who is the best wargame designer and why is it Mark Herman?
I got a question for those anons that own The Third World War:How do you store the counters? The box barely closes even when brand new. and i only have some ziplock bags for the counters, which would only make the box fuller. is it worth looking into a counter tray or something?
>>93362210Zip lock bags divided by country works for met. Own the original suite of games
>>93362210Whenever I buy a gane, I make sure to order those cheap counter trays or fishingtackle boxes alongside it. The trays are shallow and great for chits (and stack nicely. The fishing tackle bixes for games that include pieces that wouldn't fit in a shallow tray. I then store the trays seperately if they do not fit in the box (usually the trays are made to fit the bookshelf sized boxes mkst wargames come in)
So I was over on the wargaming general an they told me to come over here to share a blogposting of the following game (picrel). I'll be playing it solitaire, and thought it might be fun to post about it here.If someone can think of a creative workable way to involve the thread actively in the game, I'm all ears. I considered doing dividing the divisions over people in the thread with trips, but that would be a real pain in the neck to keep track of and I am not even sure the thread sees enough activity to divide all the divisions.
>>93362849And here the maps with the french units placed (allied units next).
>>93362877And a clearer image of the French position for those interested.
>>93362900And for those REALLY interested here with annotations of the groupings. 4 cavalry corps, 4 infantry corps, 1 infantry corps offboard in reserve and the Guards. The game has a (simple) command structure. Units can only attack when in command. Units are in command if they can trace a line to their corps leader, who in turn must be abke to trace a line to one of the 3 generals, Napoleon, Grouchy and Ney for the French. They have a command limit (e.g. Ney can direct a single corps + a single division unit independantly). Command is detrmined at the start if every turn.This means you usually can't have everything attacking all the time all at once.E.g. Ney starts in the west, near him are the 3rd cav, the 2nd inf and trailing in the back the 1st inf. Once contact is made Ney can at no point direct all three of these to attack on the same game turn.Long story short, the groupings matter, a lot. You can't send single units around the bird willy nilly.
>>93360695He’s been designing games a very long time and he doesn’t allow himself to get caught up in regurgitating the same ideas over and over again. That being said, I think he struggles when the games aren’t heavy. Outside of We the People every time he’s tried to design a light(er) game it turns out very mediocre. He has his limitations like every designer.
>>93362210Either go for counter trays with dividers that you print or use bags and organize by country/game
>>93363031It’s astonishing that command structure is still something so many games fuck up when this random ass TSR quad did it in a simple way that makes sense
>>93363414It's a solid system that works without too much hassle. I wouldn't see it working in more mobile warfare settings, so WW2 and beyond. In this napoleonic setting units tend to stick together naturally purely because they can't move fast or far. In a WW2 setting you are far more likely to have chits from one unit mix/overlap into the frontage of another unit, making it a bookkeeping nightmare.Anywhoo, here's the entire board set up. Prussian's in green and the anglo-allies in red/grey/pink/darkgreen. Along the side of the map is the turn track with reinforcements. Turntrack left and right are the same, just makes it easier space wise (and if you play the single scenarios you always have the track on hand).I'm quite rusty so this will likely be a messy game (solitaire play should even that out though). I'll kinda sorta try to follow real life events (although once the dice start rolling who knows how long that will last).
>>93341241There are some good ones that got reprints or just came out. Land and Freedom is good if you can look past the art and the reprint of Espana 1936 is good if you can't.
>>93350021>GMTPump out the most unplaytested shit imaginable. Also make shitty euros and think they're revolutionary>MMP"I know what I have" the company. Garbage anti-consumer business practices >VUCA European>Flying PigsSee MMP>HexasimEuropean>Thin Red Line GamesWho?
>want to doubleblind wargame>nobody to play it with
>>93366095i know that feel
>>93360695John tiller?
>>93366287No one knows who that is
>>93366095>>93366211How does time work in these games?If there is only 1 umpire it can't be real time, he wouldn't have time to process stuff. Is there some sort of "ingame time"? If so, does it pass at varrying speeds?If I send out an order that takes 30 minutes to arrive, another player an order that takes 40 minutes to arrive another player one that takes 50 minutes to arrive etc. how is this resolved?I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how you would do this short of doing it real time with an umpire per player, at which point you are simulating the actual messengers.
>>93366095It's the main reason I just get wargames than are either solo or can be played as such. People are too fickle.
>>93365200So I immediatlet enxounter a problem with the command rules. Or rather how tbey are worded. The rules state that the command status is determined at the start of, and lasts for, the PLAYER turn rather than a game turn.So the the French, being allowed to start, determine their command status (picrel for the QB map, blank chits indicate OoC). However, this leaves the angloprussian command status in limbo, as it isn't their player turn. The rules further specify (slightly) negative effects for defending with OoC units. With the interpretation of the rules as is, no defender will ever be OoC though, as the command statis only lasts for the player turn.Sooo, as that is rather silly (and I dont remember ever playing it like that), I am determing the command status for BOTH sides at the start of each GAME turn, and it will last the entire game turn.
>>93370118The offending passages
>>93370153And here illistrated why it matters. Blucher has a command capacity of 2. There are three officers at his disposal right now. One is too the far east and out of range, that whole section is OoC, and if attacked by the french will not be treated as such.The 2nd corps has several units OoC in the csntre south too. The Prussians decide to have Blucher take command of two units (not officers) guarding towns on some important stream crossings.
>>93370230>will not be treatedWILL be treated as such*
All French movement done. Took a moment as there is a lot to move before contact and because I had to rule check a bunch of times. Added some cubes from a different game to make the officers stand out.
>>93370454Cdntre kf the Ligny map, the Prussians rebuff the first contact on the town of Ligny. On the east the French cav takes a bridge, but blunders and fail to capitilise on it, instead letting the enemy retreat.The QuatreBras side sees some skirmishing but no meaningful results one way or another.
>>93370118Yeah that sounds like SPI rules alright
Baking the new thread
>>93371321>144 replies
>>93371377Yes and?
>>93370230now, I know nothing of history, but this might be an intended thing, not a bug but a feature of the green forces being too out of their depth so their commanding officers weren't the best or even enough for how many troops the army fieldedbut then why does it seem like greens have less units AND worse position AND worse command than the blues? balance-wise this theory of mine makes no sense>>93371399its too early to make a new thread
>>93372117>its too early to make a new threadI know. I wasn’t actually going to post the new thread just yet. This thread is on autosage though so it won’t be too long before it gets bumped off.
>>93372117We have autosage every 7 days bro.
>>93372117Not the anon posting the play by play but from my understanding his issue with the rules is that the non-active side during the turn could be OoC but it isn’t checked until their turn, meaning they’d never actually be OoC. It isn’t specific to one side. As for game balance a great many hex and counter wargames aren’t balanced the same way as something like a miniatures game would be. Being an attempt at a Waterloo simulation means that the sides and their initial positioning is inherently imbalanced due to history.
>>93372117>>93372379This. Also the greens get an entire corps of reinforcements later. Their current position isn't TOO bad though, they have the towns and the streams (defensive bonusses), they however have a lot of units out of position.As for the command, it is indeed not side specific. If you don't check untill THAT player's turn, then how do you treat the units when it is /not/ their turn? All in command? Kinda weird. All out of command? Weirder still. The only conlusion is that you should check if ALL units are in or out of command at the start of each whole game turn (although I am open to other interpretations of the rules I posted earlier).There is an alternative way, and that is to check at the start if a player turn and have the status last until it is that player's next turn. This however has the problem of not dealing with the Prussian status at the beginning of the game. The french start and check their command status, but how are the prussians to be treated? Just seems weird that they go a whole enemy player turn with this "limbo" status. This >>93370841 shows the problem, the french attack both in and out of command prussian units, if the prussians don't first check for this though, what do you treat them as?
>>93372462Maybe have it so that you check command status on the player turn and then apply that command status throughout the opposing player’s turn as well? And you don’t check the non-initiative player (and assume they’re in command) on the first turn so their OoC units don’t get steamrolled too early? Again I’ve never played this game or any of the SPI quads so I’m just spitballing
>>93372462>>93372502Aaaaand I just realized that my tired eyes completely glossed over the second half of your post like a retard.
>>93370153>>93372462So being an autistic stickler for tules when playing solo, this annoyed me mkre than I cafe to admit. I went online and found this https://www.spigames.net/PDFv3/NapLastBatCampaignRules.pdf, rules with an EARLIER copyrighy date, that are nearly identical, except for the passage that was annoying me, which is now much clearer and unambiguos and is what I will be using going forward.Command only checked fkr a plaer turn, only lasts a player turn, no effects on defense (so no need for the defensive player to check). Out of command units must retreat if in the zone of control of an opposing unit at the end of their turn.Does make me wonder why that single passage was reworded in a worse way, and the rest left as is.
>>93372632I also should stop phoneposting, because all those typos make me want to kms.
>>93372320>>93372315oh, I see, didn't know that autosage kicked in after a few days time, not just after a certain amount of posts. sorry for being a newfag>>93372379>>93372462I see, egg on my face for not understanding the issue. My best guess would've been "the second player selects units to be in command before the first player takes the first turn, on all other turns the non-active players units command status carries over" because lack of command carries over so the absence of lack of command would too. Alternatively, as a concession for the second player, all their units start in command, since they don't have a previous turn to set them to out of command, then on the second players turn command breaks down since actual fighting's begun and leaders have to give out orders.as for balance, yeah i kinda worded it badly there. was more of a question of objectives and the like, out of pure interest for the scenario itself. I believe myself to be a hopeless siege (aka objective: survive) enjoyer so perceived power imbalance isnt new to me, i just wanna know the justification for it and how can it be made fun to see if it's a novel way
>>93372632TSR was retarded and their treatment of former SPI games and staff was pretty legendarily terrible. It’s why all of them fled to Avalon Hill who made Victory Games for them.
>>93372659>I just wanna know the justification for it and how can it be made fun to see if it's a novel wayOftentimes the classic wincon is just “do better than your historical counterpart did”. Depending on the scenario this can be really engaging or kinda lame.
>>93372699Ya, I guess. Ih well, resolved it now in a satisfactory way.>>93372659The balance is pretty good at close to 50:50 for the wins last time I checked. There is an eb and flow to it, as there was IRL. Prussians usually lose Ligny, but delay enough that Wellington can stop Ney from instantly securing the crossroad.Then later the French punch throigh wellies first lines too. Then in the north where the anglos usually regroup the french try to breakthrough, and a lot depends on how many routed Prussians can come to the rescue and hiw many French were sent to delay the routing Prussians.A lot of victory points are to be had from exiting french units north of the map (into Brussels). So while you can do something ahistoric, like collapsing Neys forces into the northwestern position of the Prussian's at Ligny that will likely net a draw at best (unless you masterfully destroy them all at minimal losses or so).That being said, it remains a "perfect knowledge" game with its problems. IRL grouchy fucked around around wavre for very long, not marching towards the sound of cannons. Had he been able to see the whol picture, and the prussians marching towards waterlood, he'd likely have made different decisions. But simulating that is kriegspiel stuff and a lot mkre hassle to set up (and impossolible to do solitair unless you are an amnesiac a la "Memento")
Here's the current situation. In the west the anglos get their first reinforcements trickling in.Meanwhile in the east the Prussians shore uontheir position, roll some cannons into range and try to kick some French back across then stream. Some units currently in ZoC of overwhelming french forces were intentionally left out of command, as this will force them to retreat (instead of engaging at disastrous odds, so with this new interpretation of the rules you can effectuate a retreat order).Next post I'll wait for the next thread.
>>93372943Well tiny post before, because the French just got royally reamed for a mistake they made. They (I) advanced a unit in such a way that their retreat path could be covered entirely by enemy zones of control. They have been forced to retreat (not a big deal usually), but having no path, they are eliminated instead.Kinda devestating so early on, especially since it wasn't a trade/exchange for anything.
>>93373074This is the sort of thing that would have me stewing over my dumbass for the remainder of a game in a multiplayer session. Then I lose and go "it was all downhill from that very first loss".
>>93373074>it's that time of day again
>>93373074eh its just two chits, they'll bounce back from ithis fault for overextending past the river into an obvious cauldron, anyways
>>93373074Mon ami! Let as crozz ziss strim and usteblish a bich'e -ACK
>>93373074I’ve blundered into ZOCs before too.
>>93362849>workable way to involve the thread actively in the gameIf I unserstand this right there are 3 french commanders, a prussian commander, an anglo commander and an allied commander. So 6 commanders total. Why not simply have people take a trip and claim a commander, then send you orders in the thread (as vague or as exact as they want), and you translate them into.moves on the board (thus being a kinda messenger). Mistakes and unclarity of the orders would be part and parcel of the fun.You could have all people spoiler their orders and rely on an honor system that no commander reads the messages of any other commander that are not in plaintext.
>>93373123>>93373146>>93373223Kek'd>>93373169>>93373231Indeed recoverable>>93373326I really like this idea, but for that I'll wait for the next thread, starting that so close to autosage pruning won't be handy.Dunno how likely it is to get 6 people, but if it is less it can be divided across as many people as are interested.
We're on page 11 so I'm just going to throw up the next thread now>>93373752
