Local Heretic Edition>What is Trench Crusade?An alternate weird history 32mm tabletop skirmish game still in a pre-release playtesting phase but with the full release slated for this year. Based on the art and lore of Mike Franchina, whose illustrations you may have seen floating around on /tg/ for a several years now, and designed by Tuomas Pirinen, one of the original creators of Mordheim. It's grimdark, it's visceral, it's awesome, and it's very Blanchitsu.>What's the QRD on the background?The Knights Templar turned heretic and opened the Gates of Hell when they took Jerusalem during the First Crusade. Over 800 years later the war is still ongoing as technology has developed to a pseudo dieselpunk WW1 standard and a third of Humanity has sided with the Infernal Princes.>How do I get started?https://www.trenchcrusade.com/Grab the playtest rules and the lore primer here and check the FAQ for any other basic questions you might have.>third party sources for making trenchers:https://pastebin.com/YzXPVUAc>Scattered rules/files from the Discordhttps://mega.nz/folder/8ecVmZxJ#ifPAePNy-kdOPi_zBRKtKw>Trench CompendiumCompendium: https://trenchcompendium.netlify.app/Feedback Form: https://forms.gle/k44MxmJxWu3upDHT8>Previous thread:>>93315915
is this game actually good?
>>93382439Yeah. Do be off put by the autists that scream about mudcore or that it's not finished. It's designed by a professional game designer.
>>93382439Its pretty good, its a campaign based game so its not for everyone.
>>93382439In terms of gameplay one of the better skirmish games out there. Very simple and elegant rules, easy to pick up. Tuomas considers it the best game he's made in 27 years in the industry. It's fast and brutal and doesn't have a million stats or special rules to remember but the playstyles of each warband still clearly feel different. There's some scuff and some rough balance areas because it's still in pre-release playtesting but the core is solid and there will be optional advanced rules later on for the more experienced players who want crunchier more detailed gameplay.
>>93383104
>>93382480>It's designed by a professional game designer.As if that alone would mean anything. 40k is also designed by professional game designers.
>>93384493This one designed Mordheim.
>>9338449340k is also designed by committee, too many cooks, etc. Trench Crusade is designed by people who love what they're doing
>>93384507I know, still saying just "its a professional" does not mean anything>>93384537> by people who love what they're doingAgain, a statement that says literally nothing about the quality of the outcome of their labour of love. People can do complete garbage rulesets and still love doing it.
>>93384932>I know, still saying just "its a professional" does not mean anythingWithin the sphere of blanchitsu/28/indie games it does a little. It's one of the few designed with previous experience, certainly the only one with like 20-30 years previous experience. Most others are designed by amateurs who are making their first game.
>>93384932Just read the rules bro they're available for free in the OP
>>93384932This guy would rather have a surgery from a hobo down street than someone who has +20 years of experience on the field
>>93384932>>93384966I prefer "This game was designed by a guy with big muscles". Shows a certain level of dedication and not-being-a-pussyness.Alternately, "this game was designed by a Finn". Shows admirable autism.
>>93385388Muscle-Finn faction when?
>>93385406Too busy fighting ice demons
Newfag here. Where's God in all this.
>>93387999Around, but kind of eldritch. Communicating with him is difficult. Even exposure to angels, hearing their voices or seeing them, causes people to go insane, commit suicide or burst into flame, because they're "too pure" for humans to comprehend.
>>93387999When the gates of hell opened it severed the connection to god. Hell opened, but humanity didnt die as quickly as Hell liked. Heaven doesnt seem to have abandoned humanity, it just cant directly interfere and manifest like Hell has, like people will have visions and guidance from the voice of God still and miracles happen. Some people flat out ressurect if they have done something impressive.If they are smart they will never have god and angels manifest physically in any way.
>>93387999Seems to be pretty clearly *there*, as the forces of good are able to perform miracles and 'hear the voice of god'.As to why he isn't stepping in, the real answer is 'because then there'd be no game' but in universe it isn't explained. Theories range from 'this is all part of a grander plan we dont understand yet' to the fact that, if angels nuke the nearby area with their holyness, god showing up would probably destroy the whole planet.
>>93382353Heretic Glory ItemsThey're added to the compendium.Also, I've updated the adding equipment to models/warbands so that you can tick on/off the types of equipment (ranged, melee, armour, equipment) and what they cost (glory, ducats).
>>93384537Nah, their clear priority above anything else is not to get targeted by the cancel mob.
>>93389248Luckily the cancel mob is bleeding social power and political capital by the day, a year or two from now it will cease to exist and hopefully we can see a renaissance in gaming.
>>93388348So God is weak and pathetic. Weird.
>>93389256Nah it's stronger than ever, because it was always aligned with capital.
Cool places to get minis or bits for this theme?
>>93389262No, it's the book of revelation. The apocalypse is happening because it's ordained
Love the setting and ESPECIALLY the system, which is making me think about making a more "historical" homebrew based on the system since theres not really any ww1 campaign based skirmish games
>>93386554>implying Finns aren't the ice demons
>>93389917Right but did the rapture happen?
>>93390106Setting seems lame as fuck, it's like 90's WW where it tries to sell itself as edgy but just reinforces traditionalist religious ideals.
>this thing now exists in Trench CrusadeWrite its lore.
>>93391728His name is Jim and he's actually a Cardinal despite his looks. Sometimes he goes out on the battlefield to perform the last rites for fallen warriors of Christ.
>>93390310Nah, they're meth demons. Pervitin fueled crusaders.
>>93391359>tries to sell itself as edgy but just reinforces traditionalist religious ideals?
>>93391351No, the rapture is an 1800s concept
>>93397994Sick dude.
Things are rolling along.
>>93390310There can be more than one brand of ice demons.
>>93398848There is no 'violence', what there is are two hyper small minorities that have infested the community and both believe that the other evil side represents the oppressive dragon they need to slay to save society and be the culture heroes they're so desperate to be. Newsflash. You're both annoying faggots that everyone wants to leave. Armchair slactivists tilting at windmills because actually getting off your worthless ass and doing something that actually matters is too hard for you. Unironically the hobby isn't for either you, you mushbrained retards. Sincerely fuck off and let us play our fucking games without you screaming commie this, fascist that. Faggots.
>>93382353Newfag here. Is this just a setting/ruleset or are they going to sell sprues?
>>93399360They plan on doing some plastic models iirc but I don't know if they're gonna be on sprues. Most people just kitbash WGA's plastic WW1/WW2 kits (they're also doing a Weird War 1 sprue eventually too) or other hard plastic sprues.
>>93399026You best hope and pray it stays neutral then.
>>93399381That looks cool as hell, man. And that's a bit of a shame, fielding a warband of this big bastard on the left is what caught my attention. Thanks for the response.
>>93399453What if he has to poop?
>>93399457That's sinful, anon.
>>93399453There are plenty of 3d models out there of that guy. There's a few official 3d models too, not sure of what units though. Alternatively, just use some Konflikt '47 metals as stand-ins, they look the part even if they aren't as big.
>>93398731Didn't happen but you already know that
>>93399472So he shits himself and learns to love the smell, got it.
>>93399516Nah that attracts the Black Grail. True church members only eat communion wafers, giving them constipation till they can poop in the safety of a Blessed Latrine
>>93399477Any proxies for communicant? Hard to find a big buff guy that isnt expensive as fuck, and the official model theyre making only has a flail variant.
>>93399360They're working on official minis that are going to launch with a kickstarter soon. This week they're finally sending out the final wave of the first kickstarter which was just a small test to see if there was interest, and they've been saying the full game KS will go live pretty shortly after that's done, so we're getting close now. They're going to sell sprues but also STL files so you can print them yourself if you like.
>>93399861Reaper Ogre's might serve as a good base? They have a fair few, and they're cheap as shit. They'd need a chunk of work to complete them, but they're big and buff and shirtless most of the time.
>>93399981Perfect, thanks. Looking at their other stuff I might actually make an armoured variant too.
>>93400090I was actually thinking the other day that specific model would make for a good Sin-Eater too.
>>93400128Okay this one definitely shits himself for fun.
>>93400164It's funny because when I read this comment >>93399516 before seeing the post you were replying to, I assumed you were talking about the Sin-Eater that first time kek
>>93400164>DASTARDLY DOODOO DRIZZLER>PERVERTED POOPOO PLUMMETER>REEKING ASS-RELISH RELINQUISHER>EVIL EXCREMENT EXPELLER>SLY SMELLY-JELLY SLIDER
Yes hello is this the shitting yourself general?
Think my only disappointment with the game so far is Mike Franchina saying he basically designs guns by picking designs he likes, even modern ones, and trying to make them look more rustic. He cited an AA-12 for example. It's probably just because I'm autistic but personally I think there's plenty of ww1 specific guns that have great designs that could be extrapolated, like those crazy bolt action rifle to automatic weapon conversions
>>93402775The setting was never actually meant to be WW1 specifically. It was just a mishmash of "shit that looks aesthetic as fuck" and then they started expanding on the lore tidbits that Mike had attached to the art pieces to make a cohesive setting. But there was no intention to begin with WW1 only and to be authentic to WW1 and autists need to just fucking get over that, the setting has jet aircraft and submachine guns and dieselpunk mech-suits and fucking modempunk horror with wires and anetennae arrays being surgically implanted in people.
>>93403098I'm aware of all that, I just think the aesthetics of ww1 gear jacked up to dieselpunk fun is cooler
>>93403098So its just Warhammer for people who think they are above Warhammer. Great game guys lol. How long before "space marines" get a faction so I can actually be interested instead of having everything look like historical shite.
>>93402733it's the 12 hour bumping with inane questions general, yes. Usually it's around midnight eastern time, but it'll always be a vague question answered by reading the material or a what if and two posts closely after talking about it
>>93404280>So its just Warhammer for people who think they are above WarhammerSure, if it was set on planet earth in the 1900s with a COMPLETELY different rules system and its own models and art and cosmology and a grittier less cartoonish tone compared to what modern 40k has become and no aliens and no Tolkien fantasy influences and more direct ties to real-world history and being made by a team of 3 passionate guys instead of a massive corporation that has sucked out all the soul of the original property.... you know what I guess it's really not fucking Warhammer at all, then, is it?
>>93399453Here you can see two of the official models for the heavy mech armour that will be coming out this year. Death Commando on the right and Anchorite on the left for size comparisons.
>>93403098ww1 had multiple submachine guns, in fact the submachine gun was BORN in ww1
>>93404280>Great game guys lolThe game is great if the rules are great silly Anon
>>93405641Ok so just use 40k models and play the game, the setting doesnt matter.
>>93405774The setting is better than slophammer's thoughever
>>93405774Sure. No-one's stopping you.
>>93405774People do use 40k models for it. Lazy, but entirely an option. Kinda weird that you think default models are 40k ones, kinda speaks to the consoomer in you.
>>93382480>Makes WWI setting>People upset that it's grimy and muddy
>>93409677There is a dedicated group of autismos that despise anything blanchitsu and -28 related. They will complain about mud even if it's appropriate to the setting.
>>93409717As far as the setting goes, the only criticisms I hear are these weird genre things that I constitutionally can't take seriously. Like, if you hate WWI shit and religious shit, there are loads of other things to play and pay attention to. It's like complaining about Star Wars because you think space movies are bad, just don't watch Star Wars if that's the case. As for actual substantial complaints, the game seems to have a lot of balancing issues and the campaign style of the game is going to isolate a lot of "casual" wargamers. But I like campaign-style games so that's more of a business decision at this point. I'm not a Muslim but I am interested in the Sultanate of the Iron Wall, they seem drippy and I always liked more defensive playstyles.
>>93409743You've posted the one sultanate picture I really like, shame the rest don't really do it as much for me.I've just found out about this game from this thread and went and read the lore primer, might try and convert the models. I think I like the heretic legions best, there's always been something about the lost and the damned "psychotic normal guy with a creepy gas mask" that I've loved.
>>93412684Evil is always the coolest looking group.
>>93412684Heretics have lots of cool stuff going on. Plus it's hard to go wrong with 'submarine naval assault force'
So what's going on with the Japs / East Asia in general in TC?
>>93415950Not covered yet. Probably war and stuff.
>>93413777I was looking at them- in general, I find the "subfaction" rules to be really fun and well written. All SMGs sounds pretty strong.Does anyone know if there plans for tanks and vehicles? Or cavalry, for that matter.I'm imagining an amphibious "submarine" (with legs) demon engine sort of thing, golden calf figurehead, probably one of those autistic early french designs with a fuckoff gun on top.
>>93415950I think it would be funny if everything over there is more or less normal and they just do their best to ignore all the batshit stuff west of them.
say "trench crusade" but swap the first letter with an F- scary!
>>93416318Ehhh it depends on what's going on with Portugal and their Christian missionaries... and the Dutch, too.
>>93416623Probably much less likely seeing as it seems the heretics have naval supremacy.
>>93415950>hmmm this setting is super focused on Europe to Constantinople and has crusade and wwi as the focus>and it doesn't mention anything about the americas or africa or asia at all>lemme ask the same retarded question again
>>93416873oh boy we've already figured out the new concern trolling meta.No more "Im a Christian and I love/ hate how this game uses Christian symbolism (nothing has ever used christian symbolism before this).From now on we WILL be posting "hmm what's going on in Asia/ The Americas/ Oceania in this setting?"
>>93416873I do agree with your point, but to be pedantic it does mention Africa. Historically, there was a strong Christian presence in Africa long before the scramble for it, and I'm quite sure some of the documents mention Ethiopia raising armies for New Antioch.
>>93405056apologies for the severe autism, but the playtest rules state both death commandos and mechs should be on 32mm bases, which they clearly aren't. The anchorite should be on a 50mm,which also doesn't look right in comparison (but I might be wrong here). Is it safe to assume the base sizes have changed?
>>93417022The default heavy mech infantry profile is only equipped with "light machine armour", it's a 15 ducat upgrade to the full machine armour (which is the only one we've seen in the art and in the models here) which brings them up to 40mm.The anchorite I believe has changed.
>>93417075got it, cheers. I was actually wondering if armour upgrades would increase base sizes, but was too lazy to check.
>>93416956>new metaIt's been going on for ages now. Ever wonder why so many bright eyed and curious individuals seem to specifically focus on Aztecs for absolutely no reason at all as their very first question?
>>93389917>>93391351Among Christians, there are 4 “schools of thought” about the apocalypse: Preterist, Futurist, Historicist and Idealist.They mainly discuss the “moment” of the apocalypse and some interpretations. Like, Preterists believe that most of the book of revelations already happened.The “rapture” is associated with the futurist school (Evangelicals and Baptist Christians are associated with the futurist school, and they are the denominations that evangelize the most today, so this is the position you see most).The rapture is almost exclusive to the Futurist school.A little theology lesson for you all.
>>93416309Right now there's no plans for vehicles or tanks in the game that currently exists, but they say once the kickstarter has done, they will probably move on to other things and cavalry and tanks are a big part of what they want to do with it, of course. It's WW1 after all
>>93416309They plan on going up yo wargame-size, so yeah they’ll added tanks and probably horses.
>>93419235I kindof want them to avoide tanks honestly, I want people to feel like they should use waves of infantry, and not like 2 tanks anf 5 guys with them. Its going to walk into the problems Bolt Action and even Warhammer has with higher point games with that shit. Wouldnt mind horses and faction equivelents though.
>>93419467Again, this’ll be for a wargame, so for games with several dozen infantry a side minimum. There’s no reason to think that it will not be a WW1-scale game.
>>93416873>wwi
>>93419653>america helped in ww1>japan helped in ww1...
Don't take that bait, Anons.
Fine, if we're not allowed to talk about East Asia, what about the Celts? How are Scotland and Ireland faring in this age of Hell?
>>93420412We can talk about Asian if we want. Hell one Anon here is doing a Japanese force.
>>93420412Theyre both sub factions for New Antioch, read the "how do I get started" rules in the OP for some coverage of where theyre at. Eire is Ireland, Alba is Scotland. Eire gets some cool unit effects and play more skirmisher style as well as more advanced priests, Scotland gets a cheaper unique armour allowing them to field a much heavier armoured force.
>>93420412It seems that Britain in the universe is just England and Wales and possibly controlled Ireland? The rules for Alba make it clear Scotland is Britain's northern neighbour, with a less strongly defended coastline.A bit stereotype-y on both- musicians with bagpipes, berserkers, melee focus, rangers, miserly and ginger.
hello is this the game that made the chuddies clitties leak? Could I get a QRD?
>>93420434>>93420457Cheers lads, as a Scot myself I was interested to hear how we're getting on.>>93420432For real? I'd love to see pics. I saw some artwork of Sengoku-era armoured guys with gasmasks and bolt-action rifles which I think were unrelated to TC, but thought that'd be a neat project.
>>93420514I'm quite sure someone made some japanese soldiers for Turnip28 back when that was just beginning- maybe try looking for them?
>>93420514>For real? I'd love to see picsHe hasn't progressed unless I've missed something beyond getting the base models in the mail: >>93250213If you're interested in doing something then consider looking up Konflikt 47's Japanese faction.
>>93420550Would they not be better suited for heretics given Japan is subjugated by hell and their units have more melee focus? The IS infantry are actually really weak in melee compared to other factions which doesnt seem right for a bunch of samurai. Ill be curious to see these for IS though, they have some of the most interesting units in the game via their loadout options.
>>93420574>given Japan is subjugated by hellWe do not know anything about Japan in the setting. Asia as a whole hasn't been mentioned, so we don't know any of their situations.
>>93420735>go to check my source where I saw that they were marked as "Oni Shogunate, vassal of hell" >wind up having to go through a Reddit forum of people asking for Soviets and Aztecs to be added, alongside people asking for trans representation as a means of push back against the settings supposed promotion for christian hegemonic values which are oppressive towards themI am reminded why I do not browse outside of here.The map I got the Japan/Asia information from seems to just be a fan made thing, so youre right.That said, I would think heretics would be more appropriate for their melee stats compared to IS, IS is a ranged focused faction where their chaff have a -1 to melee rolls, where heretics can be upgraded to have a +1 to their rolls, it would be a shame to have a samurai themed warband that gets creamed in melee.
>aesthetic is crusades/ww1/diselpunk>I know! I'll make a warband that's none of those things!You're neither unique nor special.
>>93421007>grr someone coloured outside the lines for funYou're boring.
>>93421647You can just admit you don't like the setting. It's not illegal.
>>93382353Hello all. Being a tradcath I have a lot to say about Trench Crusade. I do like many of the overarching concepts and aesthetics. The pilgrims are based, New Antioch is based, the raw devotion and uncompromising fanaticism is based. But the execution of the theology here completely wrong. Now I know the creators of this setting are definitely not theologians, and it wouldn't be an issue if they didn't literally put Catholicism in the game, but as it is I think I and others need to say something. As someone in a previous thread pointed out, this whole "Meta-Christ" business is completely blasphemous. We condemn human cloning in the first place, so to attempt to clone Our Lord (presumably using the result of a Eucharistic miracle) is beyond unthinkable and wouldn't be done under any circumstance. Further, I believe there was something about the paladins being perfect clones of Him, and one is apparently female. You see a maybe not so subtle "Jesus is trans" thing there? No bueno. Also if the world of Trench Crusade were to be reality, we Catholics simply wouldn't be nearly so extremely macabre as we are being depicted, for the simple reason that it would not be necessary. Naked nuns bearing Stigmata and running around covered in blood just serves no purpose. You would have a lot of openly flagellant penitents yes, but none of this shock value BS.The heck of it is, I want to like this setting but with these issues I cannot in good conscience participate in it. I will be monitoring its development and how it affects the culture wars however. And this setting could be salvaged with some of these issues changed and made to where they actually make sense in the context of genuine Catholic faith. But as it is, the creators of the game are - as many have indirectly elucidated here - real life agents of the Heretic Legions. The communists an the wokes have no need of a separate faction, for communism is indeed just one cohort of said Heretic Legions.
>93422062This is like a flat earther whining that Discworld doesn't accurately represent his theory.
>>93422239Silence, woke tourist. CHRIST IS KING!
>>93422062I'm also a (heterodox) tradcath but you're missing the point. This is a universe where the templars started worshipping Satan and God allowed hell to penetrate earth, if you want to be hyperrealistic about theology then probably the TC church is extraordinarily heretical on a fundamental level. But again, you're missing the point, and like most modern games it's made by and for borderline homosexual reddit users who are more interested in making things cool (which fundamentally requires an expression of their view of the world- their view of catholicism) over being accurate to the religion that they're using as a prop. Accept it for what it is or make your own setting/system (like I'm doing).>>93422239Cry harder
>>93422062>>93422273>>93422293Very glad that this is a game with a setting that automatically filters out people like this.
>>93422293I'm not crying. I'm mocking you. In fact, the whole setting is mocking you, and you deserve it.
Stop eating the bait.
I'm a tradcath and I was wondering what's going on in America and especially Latin America- if this world was accurate there would be lots of the strongest and most devout warriors coming from Argentina for example. Just wondering if this game is realistic.
>>93422323It doesn't filter me, I just don't particularly like it. 40k is way more heavy handed with antireligious/whatever signaling and it doesn't bother me. Trench crusade only works artistically because the crueler violent aspects of catholicism (which from what I've seen inform the fundamental aestetics on both sides, one is just inverted) that it's "parodying" are cool as fuck. That's like saying Mayhem is a parody of Satanism just because they sometimes appeared corny.>>93422327Anon you're having a meltie because someone doesn't hate Jesus as much as you do. Calm down.
>>93422381So tell me about your own setting you're making then. And I don't think the other guy is having a meltie because he "hates jesus".
>>93422400>So tell me about your own setting you're making thenI'm just ripping off baltic/IE paganism and using it to imitate warhammer fantasy with random things I like thrown in. It started out as me getting drunk and writing down intentionally silly ideas like "dwarves with nuclear trains" and "Jin roh Holy warrior 1800s koryos with mg42s and blessed lances" Its not very serious despite being presented as such. >And I don't think the other guy is having a meltie because he "hates jesus".Sure, but he's still having an explosive emotional reaction because someone on a toy game forum doesn't share his beliefs. That's silly no matter who does it.
>>93422467I'm quite calm. You only read it as "explosive" because you feel attacked, which is highly feminine behaviour.
>>93422502Whatever you say buddy
Azab test, what do you think. Personally I dont think Im good enough at sculpting so im probably just going to buy some gasmasks instead of making my own heads.
>>93422902Looks fine to me Anon.
>>93422902Looks very nice! What's the base model, perry?I think the gas mask looks fine, and it's unpainted. Maybe try using a bit of wire or a small object to make a tube or filter for it.Ideas for a colour scheme?
>>93422984Its just going to be all tan with red turbans and gold metals. Its a base perry model Afghan model, yea. The pouches on the front are from bolt action Germans I think.I might just have the face flat with tubs coming out leading to the back on the next test.
>>93421436I think the issue here is the strange thought process of someone who looks at a brutal, world-war inspired hellscape and immediately goes "where are the trans people?" Like, that's the thing you wanna know?
>>93423230sorry umm that was "bait" look up Tony Zaret for more interesting facts.As far as I can tell, there's been no mention of trans people- or in fact any gender/ sexuality stuff at all- in the game, and the only stuff circling it I've seen has been people a bit like (you) moaning that other people are doing it (which I've never seen).It just isn't relevant to the setting.Little final test for you: TRANS LIVES MATTER
>>93423255I ain't moaning about it, I'm just speculating what that one anon's issue was.Personally, I don't really mind.
reddit.com/r/trenchcrusadesearch query "trans"someone says "trans-siberian railroad"someone says that there were transphobic slurs on the 'cord...that's it.
>>93422062>New Antioch is based>Proceeds to be mad about the Meta-Christs, which New Antioch is built onhmmalso paladins are just perfect communicants, not jesus clones
>>93422062>xe claims to be a tradcath but doesn't realize that the point of the setting is it's in the book of revelation, and the church has fallen corrupt, leading to the pit locusts (who explicitly don't attack Christians in the Bible) attacking new antioch and trench pilgrims alike
can we please stop posting for bait, or replying to cringey "trad cath" internet larper converts.
>>93420432>>93420514I have indeed not progressed as >>93420550 said. Been too busy with work and another model project. I am not a quick worker sorry to say. I also had to get a replacement for 1 of the minis (thankfully free cuz the seller was cool) due to some mold imperfections which you could even see in the old pic I posted. I've gotta get some backpacks and assorted bits to add on to the troopers, but mostly I'm just trying to brainstorm exactly what I want to do to make them my own. I'm also planning to get picrel next to act as either a Lion of Jabir or Brazen Bull.
>>93409743Lore question, not trying to be incendiary. How do other religions in the setting cope with the fact that the Christian god is confirmed real?
>>93424086The iron sultanate is otherwise called "those who still believe", they still believe their god is real despite the truth, they are more tech orientated rather than faith based so as to cover this, as since they dont believe in the christian god they dont recieve the christian blessings.
New Court kino+++DESECRATED SAINT++++>Desecrated Saints are the most prized possessions of the Lords of Hell: men and women who once were destined to become saints, great prophets or holy ones according to God’s Plan, but who were led astray and fell from Grace.
>>93424248Neato.
>>93424086>>93424149their giant regenerating iron wall was literally given to them by god, which is by far the largest miracle in the setting
>>93424086Abrahamic religions all worship the same god, no?
>>93424248where do you find these? Do i need to make a discord account?In the same vein, I've seen people say there are rules for 6 or more factions. Is the court the sixth? Is anything out yet?the five with rules I've seen:hereticssultanatepilgrimsantiochplague gang
>>93424248Nice, a satanic mechsuit.>>93424457That's a can of worms not worth opening.
>>93424481There are reveals in Facebook, its a faction with no revealed rules yet. Only units with lore. The Court of Seven Headed Serpent.
>>93424481They post those on Twitter and Facebook too from what I understand, so pick your preferred social media poison. Court will be the 6th faction, but right now they're just spoiling art and fluff instead of the rules. We know they'll be very elite and have some sort of magic component we haven't see before.
>>93424481Discord, twitter, etc.Yes there are 5 factions currently playable and the Court of the Seven-headed Serpent is the 6th which is being slowly revealed unit by unit each week right now (but no rules yet, just the art and lore).
>>93424490yeah, the mechsuit is cool.>hmm today I will explicitly worship the God of Abraham>hmm today I will explicitly worship the God of Abraham>hmm today I will explicitly worship the God of AbrahamHow could they possibly be different beings? The differences between the religions are all elsewhere.
>>93423986That's cool man, I'm just interested to see what you come up with down the line
>>93424540Because most fanatics are not rational or well-educated. To them, it's all "MY god is better than YOUR god."
Has anyone seen this?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnipGLMjl8Hilarious stuff. Why does he put on the weird affected British accent?"anything can be done In the name of gender" is a hilarious quote. And his whole point is that because a discord server is progressive (shocker!) and has "be polite" rules he is being persecuted.He also found 3 jpegs on tumblr that prove his enemies are evil, and his loyal lapdogs will proudly not give any money to this thing they had never heard about so that it will be woke and therefore go broke they back lifting moloch to heaven.ummm tradcathsisters.... our response???
>>93424540>How could they possibly be different beings?The Christian God is Jesus Christ.That's how it's different. There are actual toddlers who grasp this difference, how can you not?
>>93425645>MUH TRINITY MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND NOBODY HAS EVER DISAGREED ABOUT WHAT IT MEANSAlso, so what? It's still the same god of abraham. Unless Jesus Christ is NOT God?
>>93425688>MUH TRINITY MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND NOBODY HAS EVER DISAGREED ABOUT WHAT IT MEANSNo Christian rejects Jesus Christ as God, no. It's a fundamental aspect of being Christian even for the wackiest of offshoots. That you're seething over this just makes me question why you're even asking that question in the first place. >It's still the same god of abraham. Unless Jesus Christ is NOT God?If Jesus Christ is not God then New Antioch isn't Christian. Simple.
>>93425708is this bait or are do you have trouble reading/ thinking? Not going to bother replying after this, I don't see how I can make it clearer. I'm also not sure where you're reading seethe in my posts.This has nothing to do with the fact jesus christ is God. That God is the same god of the jews, and of the muslims. All relegious scholars accept this- unless somehow one or two of those groups got mistaken and started worshipping someone else at some point?
>>93425623The response is that people massively blew this out of proportion and is why they never mentioned it again. They are secondaries to the thing they are talking about and are speaking on it as though they are people on the inside.I agree with him on most thing but does this thing that a lot of people do now where he has this insistence on taking some retards retarded take on the internet and running it as though its a massive prevailing issue across an entire hobby, and its really dumb. The people hes complaining about have no effect on how TC is being developed, and the people talking about that shit are so below the margin of relevance that its not worth mentioning.
>>93425818>I don't see how I can make it clearer.Presumably because you're too low IQ to grasp theology that kindergarteners manage to grasp without much issue.>This has nothing to do with the fact jesus christ is God. That God is the same god of the jews, and of the muslims. Except this is where you're completely and utterly wrong and the fundamental divergence between the three, beyond what holy texts they accept and subsequent claims about morality and the nature of the universe, is that christians have a different conception of God to both jews and muslims.For instance that he is Jesus Christ, no ifs or buts, is the fundamental belief of christianity. Whereas islam and judaism both explicitly reject this along with all it entails. >All relegious scholars accept thisThe fraudulent ones perhaps. They might as well throw in zoroastrianism while they're at it for all the sense it makes.
>>93425922Are you wrong, or is the catholic church wrong?https://www.usccb.org/committees/ecumenical-interreligious-affairs/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-islam
>>93425922>kindergartenerspack it up lads, I think we've found the issue.
>>93425922If having a different conception to God is enough to make it so that you worship a completely different God, then I think that practically every single different sect better start renaming.
>>93425953The Catholic Church is largely wrong for putting political considerations over theological ones in their messaging yes, although if you bother reading any of it you'll find they officially insist on Christ as God and that there's no salvation to be found outside of the catholic Church.Any claims of them "worshipping the same God" is largely one made in ignorance, ecumenical duplicity or universal reconciliation theology.
>>93426055>if you bother reading any of itnigga those are papal statements- is the pope a heretic?you're retarded and wrong. Just fuck off.
>>93424540By the fact that Christian God is a trinity, which Muslims and Jews do not agree on. Its different gods with different attributes. I doubt Christians or Jews would agree that the Noble Quran is a text that coexists with God eternally, like being inseperatable things. If we go by Talmud, Jesus is a false propher boiling in a pot full of shit, very different from Muslims and Christians, who more or less believe Jesus is alive and with God.All claim to be worshipping God that revealed itself to Abraham, though.
>>93426054>If having a different conception to God is enough to make it so that you worship a completely different GodOne says God is Jesus Christ the Messiah and base all of their beliefs on his teachings. The other two rejects this and practically all of his teachings empathically.>hurrdurr they're actually the same! Sure, just like everyone who ever worshipped God was worshipping a God so clearly it's all the same in the end and there's no need to differentiate between any kind of worship. Complete idiocy.
>>93426082>is the pope a heretic?I wasn't reading any of the argument between you guys but chadorthodoxyes.png
>>93426082>nigga those are papal statementsThey're largely cut out quotes from vatican council documents on how catholics should treat non-catholics and explicitly refer to them as "other religions". Incidentally one of the most contentious documents in the catholic church because of how it serves to promote religious indifferentism. The papal quotes you'll note are ecumenical ones directed at muslims and bring up which points they agree with, which is mainly that they're monotheist and point to the old testament conception of creation.
Thinking I should go to some other site instead- would it be possible to agree to not have big theological clusterfucks every 2 hours, or is that an unavoidable part of being on the anonymous slightly edgy website for friendless teenagers?In this game, God might as well be completely different to "real world" God. The whole lore of the Church is suspicious. We don't need to argue about pointless shit that religious "scholars" (the pioneering internet arguers?) have been arguing about for the last 2 millennia.
>>93426109cool if not internet larper>>93426160yes, they are cut out quotes. They are cut out quotes from laws promulgated by various Popes. You can't say that "they didn't mean it".
>>93426160top of the page"n the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”doesn't get much clearer than that to me. Different religion, same one merciful God. Could you explain what this REALLY means please?
>>93426198>They are cut out quotes from laws promulgated by various Popes.None of those are from Papal promulgations. They're from encyclical letters and council documents, neither of which are binding unless backed up by a declaration of dogma in line with the requirements of papal infallibility. If you want to see an actual example of a Papal promulgation you should read the Syllabus Of Errors, since it both outright rejects your stance as heretical to consider anyone outside the catholic church to be saved, but is also a canonical document that catholics actively ignore because it chafes with their current political stances.
>>93426160>lost the argument award
>>93426273kek retarded mutt christcuck is seething that he has to share the same god as the jews and the muslims that he hates so much
>>93426210>Could you explain what this REALLY means please?Sure no problem retard.Here's the bits that dishonest site cuts out to give a false impression of the document.>16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) [..]It's discussing those pagan tribes who have not yet heard the "true teachings" of God.
>>93426273Excuse me?See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostra_aetateAnd newer interpretations of christianity take precedent over older ones- that's how everything works.I know I said I'd stop earlier, and I'm a sucker for not sticking to my word, but I was hoping I could politely convince you that you were mistaken about something. It seems that isn't possible, and you'll keep worming your way into new bizarre ways of thinking to keep yourself in the right. I don't like arguing with you here, and I'd like you to do some christian self-reflection on why you can't admit you were wrong.
>>93426325>dishonest sites>united states conference of catholic bishops
>>93426293I'm neither american nor religious. I'm just not a single digit IQ retard who can't grasp absolutely basic theology because of my undeveloped brain.
>>93426325I assume this is your source.https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.htmlIt still says that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, the one merciful God. The exact thing you greentexted says that. I think you might have some kind of brain injury.
stop replying to bait
>>93426330>Excuse me?It's wikipedia so not really a trustworthy source on the subject. Nostra Aetate and all of the Second Vatican Council are the most hotly contested parts of catholic teaching since arianism because of how it quote "did not change doctrine", "must be accepted" and doesn't jive with earlier papal infallible teachings unless you squint really hard. Ratzinger spent most of his later days trying really hard to justify how it totally wasn't a breach in christian teaching to accept it as-is dubbing it "a hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture". >And newer interpretations of christianity take precedent over older ones- that's how everything works.Completely and utterly wrong beyond all measure. It's not even how revisionist catholics claim it works, they just falsely state that it's always been true and that we just didn't find out until recently. >I know I said I'd stop earlierYes, you're a retard.>some christian self-reflectionI find christianity fairly abhorrent so no thanks. Kill yourself.
>>93426325yes, they haven't heard his true teachings. But they are worshipping the same god. You're literally saying what you were outright denying about an hour ago haha
>>93426340Yes, you can also cite the unitarians that pretend to proclaim christianity if you prefer another dishonest source.Catholic politicals are hyper-prone to dishonest citations of their own documents.>>93426362>It still says that Muslims worship the same God as ChristianTry reading the full text and think about what it's actually saying and maybe you'll one day grow out of being an utter retard and only be somewhat of a retard.
>>93426394>i'm not even christian stop bullying me!! im a based fourth thing (a reatrded /pol/ nazi who is christian when it suits him)
>>93426408>On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslimsso this is somehow saying that actually the Muslims AREN'T worshipping God?
>>93426400>But they are worshipping the same god.Except they're not as they reject Christ who is God. They try to wheedle this in under "they just haven't heard the truth!" so that makes it okay and not an explicit rejection that would damn their souls. >>93426414I'm not a polfag either but i'm not surprised that some faggot stirring shit in the TC general turns out to be a politicalbrained turd. I take it the discord drama attracted you here.
>>93426435can I see your models for trench crusade?
>>93426435I find it very strange how somebody who isn't Christian cares so much about who's going to hell according to his very specific reading of a very complex issue that clearly isn't agreed on- except that some very large denominations all disagree with what he says, something he is desperately trying to cope with by just making shit up and telling you to "read between the lines"
>>93426435nazi chud says what
>>93426429The first line refers to jews, lumen gentium is mainly about sneakily trying to reject supercessionism without actually saying so because it'd break catholic doctrine in half. Again you'll find if you bother reading those documents and not just sperging out on 4chan like a retard that it doesn't pretend they're the same religion and places them roughly in the same spot as they place far-off amazonian tribes worshipping tribal idols ameloriated by their monotheism and partial understanding of doctrine. (and more realistically for being numerous and politically relevant)
>>93426481the sentences explicitly say that muslism and jews worship the same god as christians. This is coming straight from the vatican. You are telling me to "actually read it"- could you please tell me what I should actually read? I think you're being willingly obtuse here.Again- they say these other religions are incorrect, and they should convert to christianity. They also say that they are worshipping the same God.Islamic scholars also all claim that christians worship Allah, but are just wrong about jesus.
>>93426481can you stop trying to change the argument? At first you said that the Abrahamic religions don't all worship the same god. Now you're just trying to say they're different religions? No shit.
Thank fuck he's gone.
>>93426438I haven't found any proxies I like yet, i'm leaning toward a mixed french poilu and bong infantryman antioch band with minis from Atlantic Digital. Feel free to post yours so I can identify you next time you sperg out though.>>93426456>I find it very strange how somebody who isn't Christian cares so much about who's going to hellI take it you haven't read much of what's been posted since it's just a sperg raging about "nazis" over being told he's wrong. The original asshat made insistent claims about X being all the same, which is factually wrong by all of those beliefs, and I corrected him which made him sperg out more and start posting out of context quotes. >according to his very specific reading of a very complex issue It's not particularly complex to anyone whose ever had any basic interest in religion beyond talking about it mindlessly online. One group makes claims about the nature of God, the other rejects it. It's a fundamental difference. >except that some very large denominations all disagree with what he saysFunny because if you actually ask a catholic right out about the specifics they're going to either "correct" your interpretation of it with some platitudes or they're going to reject it themselves based on the catechism. The whole unitarianism doesn't really make sense even within these groups either, they murdered each other over their conception of Christ vs the Father and most of their early infallible theology is about rejecting all of those who say one thing or another about Christ. If they actually treated Islam as the same religion they would not only be guilty of rejecting the holy spirit but also would be extreme Arians for considering Christ a "created entity".Which is why they don't say they're the same so as not to have to treat them as actual belivers.>>93426464>nazi chudActual discordchomo resorting to political whining when he loses an argument. Not surprised.
>>93426511>the sentences explicitly say that muslism and jews worship the same god as christians. They very much do not say this as they say they have not "yet received the Gospel". The jews are said to have been given promises, not that they're worshipping correctly. The Muslims are "professing to hold the faith of Abraham", which is not the same as saying they actually hold it since they reject core parts and are placed next to them by adoring "the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind". You'll note they don't go further than that like you do because it wouldn't make sense within their theology and then goes on about how God wants to save everyone even those who have not actually heard the truth. >Islamic scholars also all claim that christians worship Allah, but are just wrong about jesus.They actually claim they follow corrupted texts and and those who reject the proof of Islam will burn in hellfire but aren't quite as bad as polytheists and can still do good works. Most religions who are to be subjugated and not executed are considered People of the Book by muslims, including a bunch of non-abrahamic ones like Buddhists and Hindus.
>>93426524>At first you said that the Abrahamic religions don't all worship the same god. Which they don't as the christian God is Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. Try to reconcile that with religions that explicitly reject Christ.
spoke too soon lol
>>93426652>those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslimsjust admit you're ESL at this point, it's less embarrassing.
>>93426586https://www.google.com/search?q=catholics-+do+muslims+and+christians+worship+the+same+god&client=temple_OS_opera_gx
>>93426744He says while not understanding what a neutral voice, themselves professing it and placing them in the context of unbelievers means.Don't worry though, no matter how much you whine about it you're not getting past the fact that the christian god is Jesus Christ while the other two reject him.
>>93426759Neat, now write that in Church Latin if you want the actual canonical answer by catholics and not what american politicals at NPR pretend to think about it. Although even the dogshit answers that pop up from that would tell you that the catholics are very careful about repeating the "Muslims profess to this" bit and not actually saying they do even in the modern catechism, while later Popes like JP2 explicitly praise that they're monotheist and believe in the creator of heaven and earth but that the Quran is fundamentally false. (which obviously if you've read it they have to as it explicitly rejects their God and them as blasphemers deserving of a grievous penalty for saying Christ is God)
Don't want to get filtered right off the bat but is there a dedicated miniature range for this? I suck at conversions but the artworks for the various units is beast
>>93427238There will be a kickstarter with miniatures in the future when the game's full 1.0 release happens. Supposedly within the year.
>>93424248>Satan can actually confound Yahweh's divine planWow, god getting absolutely rekt over here.
>>93424248Lmao, get rekt God.
>>93425623He's actually from Sweden or some shit. So the gay accent is even more stupid
Man, that's scary how dumb those people are. Imagine not being able to get simplest theological concepts and quoting fucking google in context of extremely heavily regulated discussion.I pity the guy who had to explain basic shit to you.
>>93405585They were never used in significant numbers though.
>>93428812This thread is not for religious discussion, neither side should be talking in this thread.
>>93416956I don't think your second example is still concern trolling. Also, that guy gets mad at anyone who asks a question that isn't covered by the lore. Gets mad when you ask a question that IS in the lore, too. Really not sure what's chapped his ass.
Compendium dev here, while I'm waiting around for the new faction to have rules come out figured I'd ask for any nice QOL features or general website-things that the compendium is currently lacking. Not stuff related to TC specifically, stuff like the light/dark mode or mobile/multiple-screen-size support.
>>93426464"What".
>>93417776I can probably guess what a Historicist thinks but what's an Idealist? Someone who thinks it's all metaphorical?
>>93426678You're playing with semantics to avoid being wrong. Just so you can't keep weaseling out of it: you're the only one here using "god" as a synonym for the trinity. The christian "father" is the same as the jewish "god" and muslim "god"; that was the original statement, and has been for the entire conversation. Arguing in bad faith like that is the most cowardly, abhorrent behavior.Your next move will be to say everyone else is wrong for not making the same conflation all along. Obviously this is christian dogma and a distinction that matters, and is very important because otherwise your entire point would be exposed as "umm ackshually".
>>93424086I think the way it works out is> the specifics of god are vague enough that any of the abrahamic religions can reasonably conclude they were right and god's probably just still helping out the other two because they mostly have the right idea.> other religions are too far away to have their believers really see whats going on, so they can just go "oh those silly europeans think that [insert thing here] is a devil"I hope they dont just say that in other places things manifest as that local religion's equivilant. Not even religious but I am thoroughly bored of "ooooh its just pretending to be jesus and its actually cthulu or some shit".
Is this the same thing as thay grim dark vegetable or mushroom game or whatever it was? What happened to that?
>>93429747You're thinking of Turnip28. That game is still chugging along, got an alpha build for it's gang-level skirmish setting (called Swill) not to long ago. Trench Crusade is a different game.
>>93429754Thanks
>>93429419>you're the only one here using "god" as a synonym for the trinity. >The christian "father" is the same as the jewish "god" and muslim "god"Except christians don't accept the delineation and consider Christ to be God and the other two explicitly reject this.>that was the original statementNo the original statement was "Abrahamic religions all worship the same god, no?". Followed up by "How could they possibly be different beings? The differences between the religions are all elsewhere."You then sperged out and cried like a bitch over and over again when it was pointed out that they are in fact different.
>>93430905Shut up. The lot of you. Go discuss this shit on /his/ or whatnot.
All the factions are too cool, I can't pick.
>>93432506Same, I want a war and of each honestly, but I think I'll start with New Antioch because it's the easiest to convert
>>93429223Third time I tell you, "Grenade" is an actual keyword with associated rules.
>>93432860>war andWarband*
>>93425623Isn't that the guy that called fantasy goblins house niggers to get more clicks?
>>93432868ah shit just checked the feedback form, soz for missing that. You're right - will add that.
>>93391728Gargoyle: Lesser angel, corrupted in body but pure in mind and spirit.
>>93391728tiny benis :DD
Bump.
Finally the minis came.Here's my varangian yeomen. Squad is led by Einar Finnsson, man who had to survive the notorious heretic raid of Reykjavik. Experience made him join the trenches in New Antioch, and rise through the ranks.
>>93441861Sweet stuff.
>>93429234Just to answer your question: The idealist school don't see the book of revelations talking about any specific events, persons or historic events( past,present or future). Revelations is simply talking about cycles in church history. Periods when the church is persecuted or viewed poorly and periods of grace and triumph.Is a bit more complicated than that but i won't go into points like Amillennialism, because that would be way off topic and is really a heavy theological debate (this is not the place for that).
And some more varangians. Not sure how I will paint them yet.
>>93429747No, this is the OTHER grim dark game with like 4 people actually playing it.Be careful, though- Janny in here gets a bit assy if you're critical of his game and will just flat out delete your posts and ban you.
>>93443418don't forget to ask pointless questions wildly outside the scope of the game or post an empty variant of >[faction name] sounds cool i will build a warbandand then never follow up with anything
>>93443418Screaming over and over again “it sucks I hate mudcore” is not criticism no matter how hard you whine.
>>93443418>with like 4 people actually playing it.It's got more people playing it than all those other random games combined and it isn't even fully released yet man, there are literally games happening every single day in the discord, they have already done a couple tournaments, there are 5 events scheduled over the next month around different stores with 10+ people signed up to each
>>93382480This just looks like 40k except in ww1.
>>93391359>just reinforces traditionalist religious ideals.Whats the issue?
Day 7 Fresh Thread>>93448747>>93448747>>93448747
