bears are the best faction

>>93431359
they are reddit unfortunately.

Redditors want to play clans but don't like them being LE NAZIS so they made the ghost bears into wholesome 100 chungus families

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>>93431193
>I got a Royal Marauder playing in 3030 as mercs, because the Star League Cache mission in Against the Bot gave me one as a reward. Does earning one inside a campaign as a result of gameplay qualify as abusing availability or being Mary Sue?
Yes it absolutely does. No excuses. If you're using royals you're being a munchkin player, period. Play the game right or don't play, and don't try to justify your cheating.

>>93431476
Noodle camo.

>>93431463
If the face wasn't fucked this wouldn't be half bad.

>>93431463
>If you use any mech you are a munchkin and are cheating. Just use infantry for all of your games

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>>93421332
>>93422192
>>93427088
>>93427465
>>93429744
>>93429873
>>93429910

Posting my autismarauder again to continue the discussion.
>imagine dropping four of these deep behind enemy lines with 4x5 specops squads on a sabotage mission
>practically undetectable thanks to guardian ecm suites enhanced by synched comm equipment
>high mobility ideal for
>'pocket battlemech' -- can outrun whatever it can't outgun, and outgun whatever it can't outrun -- ideal for 'commerce raiding'
>lb-2/x autocannons neutralize all enemy helicopters
>if anything unfriendly gets closer than six hundred meters then pew pew laser alphastrikes followed by triple-strength-myomer movement into or out of contact for 150-ton equivalent kicks
>between one & five operationally-equipped dudes or equivalent mass of explosives (and maybe a half-ton mini-jeep) aboard each to provide infantry screening, security, scouting, maintenance, alternate pilots, soldiering, sneaking, patroling, sabotaging, assassinating, spying, and all sorts of ill shit
>lance of marauders plus demi-platoon of special forces infantry playing merry hell forcing enemy to deal with them by drawing opposing forces away from intended targets of incipient invasion

Sign me up.

>bonus question for discussion:
...which faction would do this?

File: MAD-5Y_Marauder_Luxury_Sniper.pdf (2.19 MB, PDF)

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>>93431746
>>93421332
>>93422192
>>93427088
>>93427465
>>93429744
>>93429873
>>93429910
>Construction rules are very clear that you can fit 10 foot infantry into each ton of cargo space. How comfortable is that you ask? Don't worry about it.

^So, I can easily carry the following cargo manifest aboard m-m-muh my marauder:

> 001lbs -- solid gold coins
> 001lbs -- marijuana
> 001lbs -- cocaine
> 005lbs -- liquor
> 005lbs -- entertainment & personal effects
> 007lbs -- two partially-full half-gallon piss-jugs
> 025lbs -- a dozen satchel charges & bombs
> 050lbs -- food for three guys over two weeks
> 250lbs -- specops guy #1 +gear
> 250lbs -- specops guy #2 +gear
> 400lbs -- 9 extra rounds of specialized autocannon ammunition (variety pack including colored tracer, colored smoke, a special remote sensor & tracker round which adheres to any solid surface and streams everything it sees to the marauder's communications equipment, tear gas, nerve gas, white phosphorous, incendiary, armor-piercing HEAT, and muffuggin nookyoular... yes, this marauder carries an *HIGHLY* *ILLEGAL* small kiloton-yield nuclear autocannon projectile ala "Davy Corckett/W54" re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54 as part of some sort of roleplaying story or whatever to make the mechwarrior campaign a little more fun & interesting)
>let's party

>>93431755
>specialized AC ammo
>for an AC that cannot use specialized ammo

>>93431746
A) kys manic
B) Mechs flatly cannot carry conventional infantry. It's expressly forbidden in the construction rules.

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>>93431802
>he thinks the lb-2-x/ac -- which was specifically designed to use a variety of both standard/conventional as well as specialized & non-conventional munitions -- cannot use specialized ammo

>>93431816
>no u cannot carry infantry in giant robot
>see:
>>93429910
>yes the rules specifically state clearly that you can carry 10 standard foot infantry soldiers per 1 ton of cargo space aboard *any* vehicle which has cargo space, yes, even giant robots

You guys are emblematic of the Battletech community's worst traits, and I sincerely thank you for the attention.

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>>93431856
Techmanual page 344. Mechs cannot mount cargo space.

Get fucked, secondary.

>I was merely pretending to be retarded
nah, fuck off into your half-filled piss jug

>>93431856
>he thinks the lb-2-x/ac -- which was specifically designed to use a variety of both standard/conventional as well as specialized & non-conventional munitions -- cannot use specialized ammo

they can't. You can only fire precision ammo out of regular and light acs, not uacs or rotaries or lbx

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>>93431886
You're gonna have to do better than that, because the chart you posted has no legend, ergo it would be silly to assume that "NA" under the "M" column on the "Infantry, Compart." & "Infantry, Bay" rows means that Battlemechs cannot accommodate them.

Just think from a common sense perspective (which is not allowed in Battletech, but I digress): wouldn't a quadrupedal battlemech with six tons of infantry bays/compartments in each side torso basically operate like an Imperial AT-AT walker ala Star Wars? Why can't you fit dedicated multi-ton passenger space for infantry to ride around in aboard a battlemech, turning it into a giant, walking, armored personnel carrier?

>>93431890
Thank (You).

>>93431755
>>93431746
Cringey

>>93431974
>You're gonna have to do better than that, because the chart you posted has no legend, ergo it would be silly to assume that "NA" under the "M" column on the "Infantry, Compart." & "Infantry, Bay" rows means that Battlemechs cannot accommodate them.
Read
The
Fucking
Book
You
Cunt

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>>93431937
Bullshit. LB & Ultra A/C can fire standard rounds plus their respective specialized rounds (cluster or rapidfire, respectively), which implies that they can fire any other specialty rounds available to standard autocannon (whose basic rounds are also compatible across all autocannon of the same caliber).

You know what? I think that it's high time for we elegen/tg/entlemen to produce the *definitive* official /tg/ Battletech & Mechwarrior core rulebook to clarify everything in the game, sorta like the first & sixth Jim, sovereign of his kingdoms, commissioned that one authoritative ultimate version of the world's most popular book.

>inb4 jannies delete this post and ban me yet again -- don't you fucking dare, because this is on-topic, and our community certainly should put together a canonical authoritative "final" big book of battletech analagous in creation to pic related

>>93431974
>it would be silly to assume that "NA" under the "M" column on the "Infantry, Compart." & "Infantry, Bay" rows means that Battlemechs cannot accommodate them.
That is LITERALLY what it means. The amount of space those components take up on a Mech is Not Applicable (NA) because they cannot be mounted. Have you even bothered to look at the rulebooks?

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>>93431755
>>93431856
As per Total Warfare, page 223, Infantry can only be loaded into non-Mech units.

>>93432015
>which implies that they can fire any other specialty rounds

No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t imply anything, and the rules explicitly list what ammo types can and can’t be used in each AC.

BMM page 98: LB-X Autocannon Special munitions: Yes (CLUSTER MUNITIONS ONLY)

Explicit, unambiguous confirmation. You get standard and cluster for LBX, that is it. If you are still unconvinced, flip to the section with autocannon munitions and check the ‘usable by’ section, and LBX is not listed under any of the other munition types.

You are retarded.

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>>93432087
>it doesn't imply anything
Literally a third of the entire battletech rules system is derived through sheer implication of the rest... which is why we need what I propose here at the bottom of this post

In the meantime, my group will continue to play Battletech in accordance with our own houserules, which supersede all published works, because it's our game.
>t. have not played tabletop battletech or mechwarrior in over a decade

>>93432001
Thank you!

>>93432010
See:
>>93432015

>>93432036
>have you tried reading the rulebooks?
Not in decades, and even then, they were filled with inconsistencies & mutually-exclusive rules that cannot work together, and they were stupid, like wtf, I have literally fired light machineguns at targets a thousand meters away (34 hexes) accurately with effect in real life, but b'tech tells you that the bullets drop to the ground in less than a hundred meters.

>>93432040
>buried in the middle of some obscure optional rulebook that's been out of print for decades

Senpai, THANK YOU for further illustrating the NEED for us to convene an Ultimate Battletech & Mechwarrior Authoritative Compendium.

IT IS HIGH FUCKING TIME FOR A MONOLITHIC ULTIMATELY AUTHORITATIVE COMMUNITY PUBLISHED COMPENDIUM OF ALL BATTLETECH & MECHWARRIOR RULES RECOGNIZED AS OFFICIAL BY OUR COMMUNITY.

>>93432015
>implies
If the rules say ‘weapon N may fire ammo types X and Y’ and you interpret that as ‘it means it can also fire other types of ammo’ you are leaping from written rules to headcanon.
And the reason it states ‘vehicles’ is because BT specifically delineates ‘vehicles’ as being different to ‘BattleMechs’.
Once again you are misinterpreting the source material. Whether you’re a troll or an idiot is yet to be determined.

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>>93432109
>Total Warfare
>Some obscure optional rulebook that's been out of print for decades

>>93432109
>like wtf, I have literally fired light machineguns at targets a thousand meters away (34 hexes) accurately with effect in real life, but b'tech tells you that the bullets drop to the ground in less than a hundred meters
There’s a special section at the start of the AGoAC rule booklet that addresses this exact example. You should read it.

>>93432109
We as a community recognize the actual fucking rules as being official and authoritative you deranged fool.

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>>93432109

>>93432040
>be the last survivor of elemental strike force
>become thick af

>>93432183
Gained a lot of emotional baggage.

>>93432183
it's the conservation of zellbrigen

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>>93432115
>troll or idiot
Why not both?

Let me walk you through my reasoning regarding the applicability of specialty ammunition in specialty autocannon:
>standard autocannon cannot fire lb or ultra ammunition
>lb autocannon cannot fire ultra ammunition
>ultra autocannon cannot fire lb ammunition
...but...
>standard autocannon can fire standard ammunition
>lb autocannon can fire standard ammunition
>ultra autocannon can fire standard ammunition
...and...
>standard autocannon can fire non-standard specialty ammunition as long as it is neither lb nor ultra
...therefore...
>lb and ultra autocannon count as standard autocannon as far as ammunition compatibility goes, with the additional caveat that they may also fire special specialized autocannon ammunition sharing their unique designation -- either lb or ultra, respectively -- and therefore can fire whatever a standard autocannon can load in addition to their particularly specialized autocannon rounds

It's simple common sense, the kind of logic which the rules cannot circumvent. If a flare round can be fired by a bog-standard ac/2, then it can also be fire by an Ultra-AC/2 or LB-2-X AC/2 as if fired from a standard autocannon.

>t. have successfully both prosecuted my opponents & defended myself in court despite never passing the bar much less attend law school

>>93432115
Headcannon *is* the law (at my table).
A Battlemech *is* a subcategory of Vehicle.

>>93432141
>thank you!

>>93432143
I'd thank someone to provide a screenshot or copypasta of said rules, please.

>>93432146
Yeah, but they're scattered about multiple sources bizantinesquely, with many individual rules in direct disagreement, and, therefore, it's up to US to compile ALL of it, clearly & succinctly, in a single community compiled compendium.

>>93432168
I shall continue to proceed thusly until such time as (You) all agree with me in that there needs to be a distilled /tg/ battletech & mechwarrior compendium concisely delineating all rules, et al.

>>93432268
>makes up rules to fit his headcanon
>demands others present rules that disprove them
No. Burden of proof is on you. Show me where in the rules it says a Mech is a vehicle, or that autocannons can fire more ammo types than are specifically listed in their entries.

>>93432309
>show me where a mech is a vehicle
It's ontologically obvious that a mech is a vehicle, just as a hammer is a tool and you are a bootlicking ruleslave, just take the chaotic neutral position and do as you please!

I'm pretty sure that page 0 of the implied conceptual platonic rulebook makes obvious a battlemech's vehicularity, as well as non-standard autocannon ammunition compatibility, somewhere between the rulings on 'common sense' and 'having fun playing games.'
>Verification not required.

Is there a difference between priming paints and regular paints? I need to prime something in a color I don't have, but I have the regular paint for it.

>>93432398
There probably is, but I've primed using metallics before so it's probably ok

>>93432398
Yes, primer makes the texture rough so the next layer of paint sticks to it. You CAN just prime using regular paint but it's a pain in the ass

>I need to prime something in a color I don't have

I doubt this. Unless you are painting pure white and only have black primer. In any other case you are better off priming in whatever color you have and painting over it rather than trying to use regular paint as primer

>>93432429
Then it won't really matter if I prime in gray for a mostly red and orange scheme, huh?

>>93432461
Should be fine, Gray is the best universal primer.

>>93432397
>ruleslave
The fuck is this zoomer nuspeak.

If you just want to play Calvinball, by all means go ahead. Do it somewhere the hell else and don't expect to be praised for it, sperglord. I know you're just larping as a mentally inflexible baboon because you have nothing else going on, but come on now.

>>93432461
Prime's only purpose is to help other paints adhere. Yes painting white over black primer is retarded, however color paint over either black or white primer is fine. It can effect how the finished layers work (red over black primer will look less vibrant than over white) but with gray you shouldn't have any issues.

>>93432502
We're clearly having fun 'playing' this 'game' of counter-trolling, which, incidentally, keeps this thread near the top of the catalog, while also discussing the rules of the game of Battletech.

I propose creation of a new rulebook.

>>93432516
PROTIP: it turns out that blue paint over gold primer looks fantastic.

>>93432543
battlemech manual is near perfect if you only play with mechs

>>93432268
LB autocannons cannot use the same ammo as normal ACs or UACs. If you have an ac/10, ultra ac/10, and lb-10x on the same mech, they all need their own ton of ammo because they do not use the same ammo. You need 1 ton of LB10X (slug), 1 ton of ac/10 ammo, and 1 ton of UAC/10 ammo.

>>93432627
one rule that imo needs changing is how srm and lrm ammo work

if you have a srm 4 and 6 they should be able to use the same ammo imo or same with lrms

Playing a 'trial of position' scenario this weekend. Local organizer has instructed all of us to bring a single pre-3050 heavy or medium clan mech. We're gonna then sequentially face off vs 3 other mechs. (unless some one initiates a fucking melee which I am sort of expecting)

Any suggestions? Initially I wanted to bring out either a Timber Wolf or Summoner but I play one of those pretty much every chance I get. My second thought was a Stormcrow or Nova. Trying to find something with a good balance of speed and durability, favoring all energy load-outs but I'm noticing a lot of medium Omni's have all their weapons in the arms and I don't want to be put out of the fight by losing one.

>TLDR: what's the best pre-3050 heavy/medium clan mech for dueling

>>93431376
Bears had been the less retarded Wolves long before Reddit. You got them and the Scorpions for learning to integrate. And we got Jade Falcon for nonsense.

>>93432637
If you have it, try the Hellbringer.

>>93432647
Why would you do a man like that?

>>93432637
What do you have?

>>93432632
I think it's just a calculation thing, but I agree. It should just be counted by individual missiles especially because each one does a fixed amount of damage. Where you might run into trouble is having missiles left over if the number divides weirdly. Can you fire half a volley (would make sense) or do you just take the penalty of having a few rounds left over that might randomly explode?

Could add some interesting nuance to mech design too, ability to take half, full, or even double stacks of missiles at a slightly reduced cost with the penalty being increased crit-space and inability to divide them.

>>93432670
Well then he might as well go Hunchie IIC.

>>93432670
I have a bunch, pretty much every single one of the force-packs plus a few 3d printed hangers on. Our group is usually okay with proxy too but I prefer playing with accurate mechs.

>>93432647
I ruled it out on account of paper thin armor

>>93432268
Alright, here
LB autocannons are smoothbores, to use cluster ammo and slugs, they're a different diameter as well. They are not compatible with ACs, LACs, or UACs. UACs use shorter cases to reduce dwell time and reliably increase rate of fire. Normal AC rounds are too long to chamber, and UAC rounds are too short to properly headspace in a normal AC. Autocannons and light autocannons use the same chamber, light autocannons have shorter and lighter barrels that reduce weight and range. Rotaries are a blend of all of the above with their own proprietary feed mechanism that can only handle their own proprietary ammunition.

>>93432632
I want torpedoes as ammo type and not a separate weapon.

>>93432672
Simplification for the board game 'n stuff. You can do way more interesting designs and quirks if you go the RPG route, of course. For example: one of the 'Mechs in our MechWarrior campaign had the quirk "Makes the Pilot Crazy". Turns out somebody used low-quality plastics in part of the cockpit padding, and that leaked hallucinogenic gases once the heat levels of the machine rose.

>>93432717
In that case, and if it's vs 3, consider a Shadow Hawk IIC-2. It has a good movement pattern, jumping 5+ is never going to let you down, and a mix of weapons that is both powerful at range and reliable up close. It's also 9pts short of max armor and has a standard gyro and engine, so a bad TNN is less likely to fuck you up.

Would you rather a 1300BV mech with a 4/5 pilot, or a 1,000BV mech with a 3/4 pilot?

I was thinking of using some different types of ammunition for my LRM carriers. Specifically, one of my larger carriers would use FTL Warheads and my Narc Carrier would use Nemesis Pods. Anyone tried those before?

>>93432846
GENERALLY its best to not upgrade pilots in my experience, quantity and armor is generally better than quality, from a purely wanting to win perspective. You are always better off using a mech with a TC or AES too, if you only want to upgrade to 3/4 AND that mech itself is good. But upgrading is not super bad.

>>93432905
>You are always better off using a mech with a TC or AES too

Those don't exist yet.

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Pic from my game yesterday, wob vs mercs.

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>>93432979
My list, 9999 BV.
ebon jag = mad
cat = archangel
flea= malak
SHD = preta

>>93432990
Did you win?

>>93433043
Yes, fairly comfortably. C3 mrms are pretty great, my opponent has some bad rolls and brought some weird variants like the 8ppc awesome and light ac2 annihilators and light gauss BLR.

Archangel was hitting on 4s a lot of the time and did 56 damage one turn and 40+ the next

>>93433063
+ my opponent was nerfed because they didnt use precision ammo (i suggested it but they wanted to keep it simple) and
>cluster rolls of 7 on 2 chart for his uac victor

BLR-1S?

>>93433102
BLR-M3

>>93433111
>LGR
ngmi

>>93433124
His list was very long ranged but kind of lacking in damage + he didn't stay at long range. But if he had the game would have taken even longer.

I suggested we play with forced withdrawal next time if we do a large game

>>93433139
The optimum lance has at least one at long range, one in short, and two at medium. That way all sight lines are covered.

File: MAD-5Z_Marauder_XL_ES_TSM(...).pdf (2.18 MB, PDF)

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>>93432569
>*near* perfect *if*
We can do better.

>>93432627
>LB autocannons cannot use the same ammo as normal ACs
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/LB-X_Autocannon
>Originally developed as part of the CROATOAN project in 2595 by Lubalin Ballistics for the Terran Hegemony, the LB-X 10 autocannon was a derivative of the standard and relatively primitive autocannon/10 design used for centuries by every military in the Inner Sphere. Taking advantage of advanced materials such as endo steel, the company was able to reduce the weight of the weapon with only a slight increase in bulk and mated it with the advanced Mercury-IV targeting system, to boost its effective range. The most notable feature of the weapon was its ability to fire both standard HEAP rounds and a specialized anti-'Mech cluster round.[5][6]

>>93432632
Agreed -- you should just have 90 Short Range Missiles per ton... and the option to launch any number of tubes at once, but it takes an entire turn for a tube to reload.

...is this better?

>>93433149
The optimum lance has 4 timber wolves.

>>93432543
>I propose creation of a new rulebook.
No one in /btg/ wants to help you with that. Go ahead and make your own and post it to the OF or reddit. We don't give a shit.

>>93433165
The optimum lance has 10 timber wolves.

>>93433165
>>93433187
made obsolete by mad cat mk iv

>>93433165
The most optimum army are forty-five Piranhnas.

>>93433215
>XXL engine
>Making anything else obsolete

Wrong. It's all about bugmech swarms. You just need enough of them.

>>93433241
It has enough heat sinks to make up for it and as much armor as a max armor 90 tonner

>>93433215
A timber wolf is still a timber wolf. A marauder ii is still a marauder.

>>93433267
Is a Lyran still a Lyran?

>>93433291
Money obsessed cowards? Yeah

>>93433315
There is no space-israel.

>>93433337
sea fox

>>93433342
No religion, no belief that they are superior and everyone else was made to serve them.

>>93433418
no religion other than the cult of kerensky, but they're clanners so the sense of superiority is very much there

>>93433418
eh, they believe they are smarter than everyone else especially the other stupid clanners

>>93433470
>>93433523
Clanner ideas of superiority are different as well as flexible, freebirths can earn position by demonstrating that they are also superior.

>>93433159
>LB-X autocannons could not use the special munitions developed by the AFFS, and could not be combined with ultra, rotary, or light autocannon technology.[7]

I fucking hate the redditards for ruining the LC with their overuse of the "haha funny heckin Steiner scout lance" meme. All I want to do is play as space Germans and commit warcrimes but I can't because these fags start talking about "muh heckin Atlas" Kill yourself now.

It's just like the Taurian Concordat. An interesting faction with fun roleplay potential that's been ruined by normies and their memes.

>>93433725
Particularly odd considering the Wolfhound is the single best light mech the IS has in most eras.

>Enter thread
>See what appears to be nuManic screeching up and down the thread about "rules as implied" and personal headcanon
Fucks sake, can we not have a decent thread just for once? can the 40Kiddies just go back to their own barren wasteland of a general for a week or so?

>>93432632
Tacops, page I cant remember. But you basically work out how many full volleys for the new launcher you can get from the old bin and discount the left over.

>>93433725
Just make yourdudes a separate group of Germans, a periphery world for instance.

>>93433671
So close! You were almost there. If you had only read the sentence immediately after the last one you quoted (where I assume you gave up reading):
>The most notable feature of the weapon was its ability to fire both standard HEAP rounds and a specialized anti-'Mech cluster round.

>its ability to fire both standard HEAP rounds and a specialized anti-'Mech cluster round.

>ability to fire standard rounds

LB autocannon are canonically capable of firing both "cluster" munitions AND "standard" munitions chambered for autocannon of that caliber (size).

The rules clearly state that LB-X autocannon may fire any sort of round that a normal autocannon of the same size can fire, PLUS special LB-X-only "cluster" rounds.

>>93433167
You'll download it.

>>93433748
This is a decent thread, and although I've played more games of Battletech than I care to count, and started back in like 1989, I haven't played Battletech in longer than you've even heard of Battletech, so watch out who's calling who a "nuManic," zoom-zoom, lol.

But, seriously, I'm enjoying this thread, as I hope (You) are, too.

Can we now talk about my Marauder variant's application in command of a deep penetration scout lance?

>>93433725
Sorry chud, but warcrimes are for Kuritans. You're probably too young to remember this, but even 15 years ago the joke was that the motto of the Lyran guards was that they could outmanuever most fortifications.

>>93433725
>>93433755

Yeah you got mercs like Kell Hounds, Thumpers... even the WiE start talking German. Circinus and Marians have lots of Germans there.

The original writers were pretty much stuck in their midwestern world, so any language that was big there, you'll find a ton of across the IS.

>>93433779
Techmanual supercedes TROs, by dint of later publication date and being an out of universe source, sorry bud, but it clearly states that LBX autocannons CANNOT use special ammunition.

>>93433779
ACs are damage classes, not caliber. The AC/5 of a Zeus and the AC/5 of a Marauder are not the same caliber.

>>93432846
I would gladly take a 3/4 hunch over a 4/5 victor
Gunnery 3 gives a deceptively large boost to your accuracy because we're using 2d6.

TO THE INVISIBLE
COMSTAR MOBILE!
>Hopes into an invisible Hussar and zooms away

>>93433791
These are the Great Houses we're talking about. Warcrimes are rated E for everyone.

>>93433745
Check the Lightning Companies. The Elsies had a pretty nice mix of lights and meds in 3025, with some interesting versions, like the Griffin -1S, Pixies and Vulcans...

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Still can't believe the vile davion man would build a monument to an unjustified offensive invasion of rightful drac clay

>>93433842
I know that was my point. They had good mechs on the lower end of things but all anyone talks about is the heavies and assaults.

>>93433806
I contest that ruling on the grounds that the Techmanual was subsequently superceded by official statements later made by the publishers.

>>93433816
Then how come you can cross-load AC/5 ammo between a Marauder & Zeus?

>>93433779
>started back in like 1989
And and you expect me to believe this but also that in that *entire time* you have never once actually read the rule books properly? Ever?
>zoom-zoom
Kek, okay kiddo

>Can we now talk about my Marauder variant's application in command of a deep penetration scout lance?
Its okay as a combat unit. Personally, I wouldnt drop it in with a deep recon lance, judging by the tech, the era its in sees recon units now flooring at 6/9/6, and often being faster. A Shadowhawk 5s does the job better IMHO, and your rear armour is far too thin for something that size, especially as its not fast enough to break away from an actual pursuit unit/LAM.
Its probably better situated at long range, supporting its subordinates, in a line engagement, where its heavy armour and range advantages will come in handy, whereas in a specops role its going to suffer if it ends up on the wrong end of a close in fight, or gets isolated during a plan fubar.

>>93433855
In summary, in the case of contradicting canonical information,

any in-universe perspective ("sourcebook fiction") may be wrong, and always yields to contradicting omniscient fiction ("story fiction");
detailed information supersedes broader or more generic information;
if two equally explicit omniscient sources are conflicting, i.e. provide mutually exclusive statements, in light of the two aforementioned points then in the absence of an official ruling on the matter the later sources supersede earlier sources (see also Retcon below).

>>93433866
He's read the books. He just doesn't like the rules so he ignores them.

>>93433877
Houserules stop at the door of your house (or LGS).

>>93433919
He's too daft/entitled to understand that.

>>93433806
>by dint of later publication date
Modern does not mean Better.

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is the grasshopper meant to be a bodyguard mech? it's mobile, but not really fast enough to chase down smaller mechs.

is there another role for it that i'm just not seeing?

>>93434024
the grasshopper is a fuck-their-shit-up 'mech, it's supposed to use its mobility to get into hugging range of units that aren't comfortable there, and hug them in half

>>93433877
I had him down as a sufferer of terminal autism, but these probably go hand in hand.

>>93434024
Its a brawler/striker and actually does okay prior to the helm tech and invasion upgrades, which see it left in the dust as, congratulations, its rare and so nobody bothers to put together a proper and cohesive upgrade package for it for far too long, leaving it a 4/6/4 with a LL and 4ML in an era of ERPPC's and gauss. Or you can take the PPC and 5ML upgrade, which is probably better, though its still slow and now woefully undersunk. 3064 gives you a better brawler, though again its still slow and better suited to urban fighting. It does get better later on though. The 7K is good.

>>93433779
You're missing a word in your summary. That word right there directly after the word standard. What is that word and why do you think it's armor-piercing, flak, caseless, incendiary, precision, or tracer?

>>93433725

The Lyrans aren't nearly as reddited as the Taurians, I think you'll be fine. Lyrans still have old grog energy to a degree.

>>93433779
>The rules clearly state that LB-X autocannon may fire any sort of round that a normal autocannon of the same size can fire, PLUS special LB-X-only "cluster" rounds.
That is not what it means. Special ammo is explicitly non-standard. And if you bothered to actually crack open Battlemech Manual and go to page 106, it very clearly and concisely lists which specialty ammunitions can be used with what weapon, and the only one used by the LBX is cluster.

>>93433779
Fluff =\= rules

>>93433725
I know redditors are obsessed with taurians but why exactly? I haven't seen the memes either, is it just because they are le good guys and freedom or something?

So should I basically be looking for ER PPC, ER Large laser and Gauss on everything if I'm gonna be trying to fight clanners in the late clan invasion early civil war era? Or is it possible to bring non extended range stuff and not get raped?

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>>93434259

We discussed this last thread, and many threads before but short answer, yes. They need a "good guy" in the monarchist warcrimes game, and have latched onto the Taurians as the "good guy" faction. You'll also see them go into dangerously unironic factionfagging.

Despite the fact that the TC has a hereditary military leader with autocratic power like any IS state. And warcrimes like any IS state. And is retarded like any IS state.

>>93433854
Yeah, thanks to Tex and retarded memes. Same with the old meme of Taurian beign Texan libertarians (they are not), or the new one about Canopus beign and open and "free" society full of cyborg catgirls.

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>wonder why some anon would insist that LBX and ultras can use specialty munitions despite the rules explicitly stating otherwise
>remember that the guy who hosts the Battletech games at my FLGS thought the +2 heat per turn from running movement meant +2 heat per turn the mech made, so a running mech that turns 3 times would generate 6 heat.
>this man has been playing BattleTech since before CGL had the license, and has the pewters and old standees to show it

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>>93434327

>>93434315
IS ERPPC kinda sucks, and is generally extra heat and cost for range. Heavy PPC, Snub and Standard are all better in their own niches.

Don't worry about matching Clanners at range, the goal is just to straight out armor and out ton them at the critical point. Once you get close the difference in weapons and skill is much less noticeable. If you trade shot for shot with them at extended distances they're gonna win more often than not, better mechwarriors, better weapons. You have much easier access to getting more armor points on the field.

IMO the IS side of IS vs Clans is much easier to play, you're typically gonna have a 1.5-2x numbers advantage in mechs so will have an easier time leverage initiative and can more easily threat saturate and disperse damage over your formation. Losing a mech is also not as punishing as it represents a smaller portion of your over-all force. Just get up into the tubebabies faces and the fight gets more even.

>>93434352

Yeah, exactly.

>>93433844
How many people died in the first succession war? And the feds are still upset over 52 million of them?

>>93434434
Its not the numbers but in how it was done.

>>93434477
the feds just hate artisanal massacres

>>93434434

It's best not to think about warcrimes in Battletech. They make no sense in build up, execution or numbers, but the writers need them to still get erections. Just accept there are warcrimes everywhere and they are very big warcrimes.

(Cuz like holy shit, I'm pretty sure one of the biggest warcrimes was Star Adder nuking York but that rarely is brought up.)

>>93434350
>based chad grog(s) whose "incorrect" interpretations of the rules are better that the actual design intended

>>93434484
be honest, how many people have you killed?

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>mfw itt<

>>93434350
I mean, that's not the WORST idea in the world, kind of interested to see what meta it would develop, certainly punishing to the fast mediums/heavies that need to run into reach critical breakpoint TMM's.

>>93434595
that's between me and the Coordinator

>>93434619
nice larp

>>93434434
Including the losses caused by the destruction of critical infrastructure and agriculture and such, billions of civilians in every successor state.

>>93434667
A planet literally put to the sword is still significant.

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>>93433866
>>93433868
>>93433877
>>93433919
>>93433959
>>93433960
>>93434078
>>93434085
>>93434179
>>93434243
>>93434350
>>93434613
>sincere thanks & gratitude for your contributions to this thread

In particular, the whole "cumulative heat buildup from multiple consecutive movements" *was* kinda implied in the wordage of the original first edition rulebook, and we played that way a few times before "adopting" the *official* rules (thereby significantly reducing the importance of movement & heat management).

And, anyway, you can carry both "standard" and "cluster" autocannon ammunition inside your 'mech, and fire both through your LB-X autocannon, as per RAW, period.

"Standard Autocannon Ammunition" -- hereafter referred to as SAA -- is anything that a "Standard Autocannon" can fire; e.g.: regular old A/C, Dummy-A/C (for practice), Paint-A/C (for practice), Smoke-A/C, Gas-A/P, Flare-A/C, Frag-A/C, Flechette-A/C, Airburst-A/C, Incindiary-A/C, Flashbang-A/C, AP-A/C, HEAT-A/C, HEAP-A/C, WP-A/C, ETC-A/C, basically *every* kind of A/C boolit that'll feed & fit down through the pipe.

"Standard Autocannon Round" is *anything* that will reliably fire through a "Standard Autocannon" because all of those rounds must be standardized to the standards of the standard autocannon action & barrel, et al, ipso facto: they are applicably standard because standards apply.

THE RULES ARE WHATEVER I SAY THE RULES ARE AT MY TABLE AND YOU ARE ALL AT MY TABLE NOW ROLL THE DICE!

Look at that. This does not violate the official rules of Battletech. It is perfectly reasonable & legal to put troops into a box and then pick up the box, but it is somehow unreasonable & illegal to install under your 'mech's armor a special box for people to ride inside of -- which is exactly what a cockpit is (but it can only fit one adult or maybe two people if neither one is "fat") -- because THOSE ARE DA ROOLZ! Okay, how about I go ahead and compile that common sense community compendium, then?

[SNEED]

>93434744
You are genuinely retarded

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>>93431357
When in the BT timeline did you see a transition away from medieval tactics and governance and towards Napoleonic era tactics and governance?

>>93434744
Standard is standard, cluster is cluster, specialized is anything that is not standard. LBX cannot use specialized because it is not standard and standard is everything that is not specialized. Understand now?

Man, I have such shit luck. My kickstarter came in today and my salvage boxes were all duds in one way or the other. First three: Clint, Hermes II, and a Firestarter. Meh. Next two a Goliath and a scorpion, those are nice, but when I picked out two of my force packs, I chose them specifically because they had a Goliath and a Scorpion, so those ended up being a bit of a waste. Last was a Phoenix Hawk IIC. Only one I didn't have any complaints about, other than its the only Clan mech I got in the whole kickstarter.

>>93434744
You may in fact be mentally deficient.

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>>93432721
Okay, now this is the kind of answer which I am looking for, as I know about shit like headspacing, feedramps, chamber pressure, and a deal of other firearms knowledge.
>e.g: .223 chambers in 5.56 but not the other way around, at least not safely/reliably, etc

...that said, smoothbore or not, the rules do specifically state that:
>you may switch between "slug" and "cluster" ammunition
with LB-X autocannon, with the implication that "slug" is basically the standard autocannon round.

>twelve gauge slug is neither birdshot nor buckshot, nor a bullet

Okay, maybe now I'm coming around to the idea that, although identical in performance, a "slug" is NOT *actually* a "standard" autocannon round.

Uh... th-thank (You)? I... I can walk away from it, now. You've helped me set it down, and walk away. Thank you. I'm going to move forward with my life now, thanks to all of (You), but especially (You).

Thank (You).

Wait. No. No, Ultra-A/C can definitely fit Standard-A/C ammunition, so my original statement still stands AS FUCKING FACT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

>T
he Hellstar appears equally in the ranks of the Wolves-in-Exile and the Horses, though RAF forces did manage to salvage a few badly-damaged examples from the many battlefields of the Jihad

Republicbros.. we just got the green light

>>93434802
Hermes II has good later variants and the 2M can shrek light units of any variety if you're spooky enough to use it. It's like a better Vulcan, which is admittedly not a high bar.

>>93434744
Calling special ammo standard ammo because it fires from the same barrel is not common sense, it is you wanting to be right. Whatever you do at your table with your friends is your business but please don't try to act like this is some kind of common sense gotcha.

>>93434799
Yes: I get it; but I don't want to get it.

>>93434815
Aren't we all? Imagine how dim every domesticated hominid ambulating around this planet seems to [REDACTED]. Just think about it. We're a bunch of fucking monkeys slaving away for the equivalent of bananas on the big monkey ranch, and instead of shrieking "ook-ook-ock-ock," throwing our shit at the nearest politician and then [redacted] until there are no more, we have fun arguing over the byzantine rules and technical minutia of a completely unrealistic game of laser robots in space, like, c'mon, man!

>>93434864
But, it is! Don't you see? Why don't you get it?

Your honor, I move to have the jury decide!

>>93434830
Ultra Autocannon's do not use standard rounds as it uses a magnetization system to chamber rounds required special ammo types to be utilized with it.

>>93434830
But there isn't identical performance, lbx autocannons have additional range, reinforcing the point that they would be smoothbore, as smoothbore cannons have superior range to rifled cannons of the same nominal caliber due to decreased barrel drag from the lack of rifling. You definitely don't seem to know much about ballistics.

>>93434830
Lbx slug is not interchangeable with AC ammo. They are different items with different costs and availability and entries on the lists and charts. You cannot empty an AC-10 bin and put that ammo in an LBX-10.

>>93434878
No, it's just you.

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>>93434858

Nobody plays Republic, particularly not here. I have never seen any Republic painted mechs posted. The Republic has no personality, no style. It was entirely created due to corporate mandated necessity.

>>93434369
imo the clans going 'less mechs, spam elementals' was much harder to deal with

>>93432268
>It's simple common sense, the kind of logic which the rules cannot circumvent. If a flare round can be fired by a bog-standard ac/2, then it can also be fire by an Ultra-AC/2 or LB-2-X AC/2 as if fired from a standard autocannon.
LB-X autocannons can NOT fire standard AC ammunition and it ought to be obvious why - even if they had the same caliber and chamber they will not be able to stabilize ammunition designed for a rifle barrel. It's also rather implausible that they will be the same caliber since that very much limits the options around design of cluster rounds.

This is the problem with people that propose "common sense" rules - most of them lack it.

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>>93431376
>Redditors want to play clans but don't like them being LE NAZIS so they made the ghost bears into wholesome 100 chungus families
They don't like being nazis, so they picked the clan that hunts down and kills people because they're distant relatives of Wolverine blood names and who told a whole generation of their youth to suck a shotgun because their genetic purity had been found compromised?

Makes perfect sense.

>>93434327
You can hear the Chinese whispers from this newfaggotry. No oldfag would ever like the cappies or the dracs. That's a zoomie thing.

https://youtu.be/643c3NgKGQs?si=c3Hh8GSdPCQAb2Ax
huh, so this guys was not some old fuck that became solahma and being jealous about younger dudes being part of glory he could't?

>>93435015
Bold of you to assume that any redditor has sufficiently in depth knowledge of the setting to be aware of any of that. All redditors know is they are the ones with families that play American football and merged with the space Vikings (which is honestly a shitty inaccurate characterization of the hogs, but I digress it's not like they know that either). As far as the average redditor is concerned they are the good clan.

>>93434688
Don't bother. These are the people who think starvation and famine is the same as genocide or rape of nanking.

>>93435015

A redditor wouldn't go past the most basic description of a faction.

>>93435026
I think your sense of time is distorted. The game is old enough that the Cappie players are now also old grogs. You got your MadCappies and Coleman himself.

True, Cappies are basically Johnny-come-lately compared to the Davions, but it still holds true.

But yes, the Dracs aren't old fag.

>>93434972
I only play Republic or Republican era. Knights are based. You are too edgy 5 me

>>93435048
You're all zoomies to me. All clanners are poofters who LARP as Spartans and fuck kids in the butt. Everyone else except mercs are bootlicking monarchists. I hate what gaming has become, and it's not because of the trannies or the women, it's because of zoomies like you.

>>93435075
>all factions suck except ONE my headcanon donut steel mercs

>>93435040
We know that it's not a war crime if you forward the claim that you dindu nuff.

>>93435055

Post mechs.

>>93435128
Yes, you now understand Battletech the RPG and the war game, my retard failson.

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I may just be new and stupid, but is there a reason some Clan Mechs have TAG? I thought outside of Wolf and their Naga, the Clans didn't do artillery. And they wouldn't have semi-guided LRMs either. Is there an application I'm missing?

>>93435048
Pretty sure you had drac fans back in the day with Teddy who would qualify as grogs at this point.

>>93435155
didn't one of the khans got killed by guided lrm shower?

>>93435140
https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/pw3bzi/republic_of_the_sphere_superheavy_assault_lance/

>>93435174
yes, Ulric.

>>93435155
generally they don't do artillery but not never. CJF had a ton of massive howitzers at the battle of terra

>>93435174
Yeah, Kahn Tzee got killed by an LRM boat while he was blinded from mud.

>>93435055
There are a lot better knights out there than that.

>>93435155
First and most important rule of the Clans, it's only dis-horable if it doesn't benefit them.

>>93434907
>>93434914
>>93434917
>>93434924
>>93435008
Well, that's enough fun for one day; thank (You) all for replying.

>>93435155
TW p273
>Clan dueling rules and restrictions on physical attacks apply only to enemy ’Mechs. Clan MechWarriors may attack vehicles and unarmored infantry targets without reference to Clan honor. Likewise, Clan unarmored infantry and vehicles need not follow the rules of engagement. Battle armor and ProtoMechs follow the code of zellbrigen, with each Point
considered a single unit for dueling purposes.
For Clan warriors, artillery is for removing tanks and unarmored infantry from the battlefield so they cease interfering with real combatants. For Clan tankers, artillery is to give them a chance at proving their value by defeating a superior enemy (or by removing the opposing force's tanks and unarmored infantry from the field so their own 'mechs and battlearmor can go about the business of proving their superiority uninterupted).

>>93435347
remember that a lot of clans don't give a fuck about zell in later eras, not even as lip service. It really depends on a lot of factors and most clans would be happy to use artillery and worse against a dezgra foe, which can be pretty loose.

>>93434327
I see them more as Nazi Germany except their policies (mostly) work, they're too small to actually threaten or invade anyone, most people don't think about them at all, and there aren't any concentration camps because Davions all live way over there and jump ships are rare.
How wrong am I?

>>93435374
Taurians are evil retards who have a relatively stable government among pirates and scum. The end.

>>93435388
Either troll or newfag that never picked up a BT book. Keep lurking fag....

>>93434327
Honestly I think the popularity for the Taurians is easily explained.
>A large percentage of America’s population is latino
>Battletech is primarily played in the USA
>The Taurian Concordat is Space Imperial Mexico

so, is the LC loving big fucking gun a meme or not?

>>93435374
Only the clans are as extreme as an "ideal" socialist state.
All the others merely employ social control ranging from moderate to total, with the DC and CC only being roughly similar in their authoritarianism to modern china or late imperial japan, they generally do not completely reorganize human society and the family unit into new, alien systems.
Most of the time, even the most extreme states will leave groups alone as long as they pay their taxes, do not avoid military service, and affirm their obedience to the state culture.
The TC is just a constitutional monarchy with extensive welfare policies.

>>93435499
its not a meme, they literally invented the heavy gauss

>The Southwest Trinity Worlds is the unofficial nickname of a trio of planets near the Periphery of the Free Worlds League that were primarily settled by various Native Americans tribes, Hispanics, Americans from the southwestern United States (Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas), and people of Jewish descent.
>The people of the region emulate the Southwestern United States and Mexico's "Old West" mentality from the 1900s. Many of the people are heavily religious, rough and tumble, and violent.
wonder why these guys aren't more popular

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>>93435536
What cool mechs do they have? ... Right

>>93435374

Nazi Germany is too grand, think more like a South American socialist junta that shrieks about American Imperialism (Davion) to distract their citizens from their terrible domestic and foreign policies.

That said I'm betting a ton of RWR war criminals fled to the TC.

>>93435499
>>93435522
Everyone in BT loves a big fucking gun you retards. LC are just space swiss enough to buy lots of them. And run by nobles to the extent that they're dumb enough to waste tons of ammo

>>93435536
They're irrelevant and tiny.

>>93435536

Because they're not even a major enough FWL state to have their own mech unit?

And because they're basically just part of Tamarind, which only become relevant in eras not many people play?

>>93435374
Pick a fucking BT book tourist! Nazi Germany? Dont know if you are worse than the tards that repeat that the TC is LOLbertarian-land....

>>93435555
guess there was spess kissinger who gave them valid reason to hate davion

>>93435536
Everything about them is from a single novel series; no one aside from Victor Milan gives a shit about them.

>>93435661
They are active again in the IlClan era, kicking the Marian´s arse mostly.

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>>93435499
The LC doctrinally trends toward: "solve problems with fat guns wielded by the fattest ass in this given weight class."

>>93435536
>>The people of the region emulate the Southwestern United States and Mexico's "Old West" mentality from the 1900s.
So... they're Germanics?

>>93435499
Their first thought when facing the clans was "stick a gauss on a light mech". This tells you everything you need to know I think.

noob being genuinly curious, can you guys give me some themea and characteristic for the (introtech era) lyran commonwealth, outside of the memes like their social generals and 'scout lance' and such?

>>93435717
germans/prussians.

>>93435717
The memes are not entirely without basis in the lore, but they are very exaggerated and shallow takes that fail to take the full picture into account. Yes, social generals did exist, but they had plenty of competent war fighters as well. Yes, they have the industry to field a higher percentage of heavies. They also have wonderful mediums and lights, see the commando griffin and wolfhound, and the industry to field plenty of those as well. Like every other faction in battletech they are much more 3 dimensional than the memes would have you believe. What facet of their lore do you want to discuss? State sponsored terrorists? The technically not state sponsored anti terrorists hidden among the terrorists? The absolute power of the Archon? The estates general?

>>93435717
-The Social General thing actually is important though; the devs needed a reason why the most powerful economy in the universe doesn't curbstomp the Dracs
-Most powerful economy
-Related, strong media
-Heavier units ("Steiner Scout Lance" is a joke, and Commandos exist, but LCAF formations are a little heavier than average)
-SRMs
-Commandos, Griffins, Zeuses, Battlemasters
-Some factionalism (Isle of Skye mostly)
-"The Archon is not a dictator" (except that they totally are)
-Fighting between different branches of the Steiner family (e.g. Frederick Steiner)
-"Form over function"

>>93435767
>commando
>wonderful
can't say that in good concious

>>93435767
>State sponsored terrorists? The technically not state sponsored anti terrorists hidden among the terrorists?

I love this an I wish it got more ink. The Lyran Commonwealth, an ostensibly free and liberal state with guaranteed rights and whatnot, has an agency that recruits exclusively from orphan children whose purpose is "state terrorism". This is so horrible that a bunch of people from old noble families have come together to create a "loyal opposition" to stop the Archon from abusing this...because apparently no one in the Estates General or anything gives a shit.

This is the decadent underbelly I want to see.

>>93433165
You're right and ironically it's one of the batches clone anon hasn't made.

>>93435823
loki and heimdal?, was it?

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>>93435823
>an ostensibly free and liberal state
Do liberal states even exist in Battletech? I mean, I guess you could call them liberal, in the same sense that Napoleon's France was liberal.

>>93435767
estate general =/= social general?

>>93435836
Yep

>>93435823
Technically speaking Loki doesn't recruit exclusively from orphans that is Lohengrin, and Lohengrin technically isn't the terrorist organization. They're just a fanatical paramilitary force that has been used as what is functionally a secret police force to suppress dissidents. Loki and Lohengrin may train with each other a lot, but technically speaking the state sponsored terrorists aren't the brain washed orphans. Or at least aren't exclusively brain washed orphans.

>>93434327
Your idea of the TC being the reddit faction kind of falls apart when you label the Aurigans as the reddit faction and the TC are the direct enemy of the Aurigans.

>>93435717
They're capitalists, but they apparently believe that people can't work unless they eat and sleep and thus provide free basic anemities of pods and slop to anybody who's completely down on their luck.

Their secret service funds patriotic orgs that kill people for not being patriotic enough, which includes secret service members.

New Kyoto, a japanese-dominated system of theirs, seemingly has old bear hunter movie memes.

>>93435856
The Estates General is a political body, basically the Lyran's parliament, where representatives from the different planets and interest groups can lobby for their constituents interests. Functionally speaking they run a lot, because traditionally the Archons mostly stay out of things.

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>>93433748

With that cease and desist for the most common printed models having killed a bunch of etsy stores, where is a good place to get them now?

>>93435885
My favorite part of the Estates General is the Homeless.

>>93435871

Everyone wanted to go ally with the Taurians though.

>>93435894
Begone snitch

>>93435898
That is a pretty cute detail. It's also good for fluff because it means that there's a faction in parliament constantly calling for war.

>>93435913
Mhm. Keeps things interesting.

>>93435848

Since this is the age of the retard, I have to ask what you mean by Liberal?

Like notably, the FedSuns does have a lot of "liberals" even among its nobility, but there, "liberal" just means "generally anti-Davion stance". But that could mean they want to curtail noble powers, or are just against Davion military adventurism.

The Lyrans likely have something similar, but for them it works more in reverse - its less about being anti-Steiner, and more about how pro-Estates General you are. Because being Anti-Steiner is more for other noble families. "Democracy Now" are excellent examples of Lyran liberals.

FWL is a bit more complex. They'd all argue they're "liberal" because of their mercantilist society. But in the FWL, the bigger political question is more anti or pro federalism.

For the Kuritans, liberalism is more tied to ideas of honour. I.e. Teddy K is a liberal because he wanted less retarded and more flexible views of honour.

Cappies are weird in that liberalism only existed outside the state itself, i.e. St. Ives.

Meanwhile the Periphery would all say they are the liberals contra to the IS, because generally their nobilities have less power.

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>>93435128
Yes.

>>93435155
Zell is only for fighting honorable combatants. Orbital bombardment, Arrow IV, Artillery ect is within the Clan Arsenal and was used during the later half of the Invasion. By the end going into Jihad, basically no one gives a fuck about it.

Pre-invasion Clan practice is not reflective of anything post, but Grogs here don’t recognize anything past 3052 and newfags don’t know any better.

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>>93436050
Note that the Huey was an OG Clan vee that Nicky K himself called for.

>>93435905
Listen bud, I want a bug company and some firestarters for warcrimes and I'm not paying catalyst $15+ for 1/12 of the units needed.

is 'you just need to kite around ac20 3/5/0 mechs' easier said than done? especially while in introtech?

>>93431376
The best part is that their concept of "family" is basically that of The Family International.

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>>93435950
Well it gets tricky too because Battletech is stuck in a sort of...early liberalism. Post Enlightenment, but before the idea of democracy took off.

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>>93435803
How dare you.
Everyone else, post a pic of every Commando you own, together at one time.

>>93435899
I wanted to ally with the Lyrans.

>>93436190
I dearly enjoy that the GB concept of family doesn't extend to considering Civilians to be equal to Warriors.

>>93435848
It's all relative. When your neighbors are doing things like deciding all civilian healthcare is a waste of money (dracs) or enslaving everyone who fails their SAT (Caps) it's easy to look more freedom loving than that.

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>>93436326
Slavery itself is pretty relative. If you have no rights and have to do whatever the king says in every BT state, are you not a slave?

>>93435803
The Commando is fine.

>>93436326
>When your neighbors are doing things like deciding all civilian healthcare is a waste of money
This just means no state-sponsored healthcare right? If an individual with a medical license wanted to set up a clinic to ensure the pillar of teak was maintained, could they do that?

>>93436358

If you aren't living in an active military zone, and the King in the FedSuns does something that infringes on one of your Six Freedoms, you do get legal recourse. Though more likely its a noble fucking with you - in which case the King might kick their shit in. It's not ideal but it is something.

In the CC you have no rights. If you disagree with what The King does to you, you can suck dick or get shot by the Maskirova.

In the LC you can complain about having to do what the King says until Loki murders you.

The FWL is where it gets a bit fuzzy actually, because this would be based mostly on ease of relocation. If you got really pissy with your local leader, could you just move to another state?

>>93436383

Hypothetically.

In reality, the military would probably coopt you.

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>>93436422
>and the King in the FedSuns does something that infringes on one of your Six Freedoms, you do get legal recourse.
Do you though? I mean sure, maybe, IF you have internet and IF you can afford to pay the price and IF your case doesn't just get dismissed and IF you don't just get blown the fuck up.

>>93436467

The major factor really is how close you are to the borders. If you were in the Crucis March? Sure I could see you getting enough of a huffy media stink to come out on top.

If you're in the Cappellan or Draconis March you'd best case get stoned walled by "we can't listen to you now in the interests of national security" or worst get branded a weeb-commie.

And in the Periphery your complaint would never get off planet.

>>93436467
It's made very clear in the source books that you do in fact have legal recourse, and furthermore that there are canonical instances of the First Prince sending the Davion Guard to fuck up nobles who abused their populaces. It isn't perfect but it's still better than the other great houses.

>>93436467
>Do you though?
Their highest legal recourse is requesting the First Prince to do something about things.

So no.

>>93436383
>>93436432
You'd be operating on a shoe-string budget and the military would take your shoe strings to tie some soldier's boots at the drop of a hat.
Basically what happened with the Davion spacebourn primary school project.

>>93436580
Your legal recourse in any society is requesting someone, usually a government official, do something about things.

Lore question for the various anons, does anyone run iATMs other than the Society? I was considering building some of the Z variants of different omnis, but it seems like there really wouldn't be much point if no one has access to them or uses them post-Reaving.

>>93436623
Ah but you see because he is a noble he must by default be a horrible and corrupt person who will surely ignore his legal obligations and flout the societal contracts upon which his rule is built.

>>93436623
The person supposed ot fix the issue is the one who fucked you over in this case.

>>93436654
According to novel canon, the Davions breed a lot of rather honest nobles with little taste for... the finer things in life.

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S E N S I T I V E

>>93436679
>The person supposed to fix the issue is the one who fucked you over in this case
Except for when it's not. How many random people in the federated suns do you think the first prince personally wrongs?

>>93436654

I know you're being facetious but yes, most nobles (or nepo-babies as we call them now) are horrible people because they were raised to implicitly believe they are better than other people by virtue of birth.

>>93436681
>Tee hee, look at me everyone, I pretended to misunderstand a question and my peers reacted negatively.

>>93436715
I'd argue there is a difference between a noble and a nepo-baby, but I see your point.

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>>93436654
We have people being openly and brazenly assassinated in so called 'democracies' while the peoples will gets ignored, if you think someone who, by virtue of their birth, is outright superior to 99.9% of the population on a legal and material basis won't abuse their power then you're deluding yourself.

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>>93436702
Being the quasi-absolutist leader of a state, he naturally almost exclusively wrongs people in impersonal, systemic ways.

>>93436715
Most parents tell their children that they're special. Most people are selfish and think they deserve more. Most people use power for personal gain, even when their job is meant to benefit others.
Nobles are just like any government official, they are no worse than our own, they do what almost any person does with power.
It may make you feel comfortable to believe the "horrible" monarchies that we've "moved past" were so much worse than the government you live under now, but the reality is that nothing has changed. The facade merely masks what they really are.
>nepo-babies as we call them now
Who even calls them that? You're the first one I've heard say it.

>>93436729
>boo boo someone made an insignificant joke at my expense, time to react negatively.
See how dumb of an argument that is?

is there any fun introtech scenario pack you guys can recommend?

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>>93436790
The primary difference is the degree of power of violence the people hold in comparison to the government. Warfare has never favored the common insurgent more than it has now in modern combat, whereas in Battletech it's nearly impossible for insurgencies to win.

>>93436746
There is large amounts of in setting information about how, when and why nobles abuse their power and also in setting information about what happens to them when they do. Sometimes they get away with it, and sometimes they don't.

Attempting to derive setting information from real world political knowledge will often lead you to the wrong conclusion.

>>93436795
You are not entitled to updoots, and you are especially not entitled to sympathy here on 4chan dot org.

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>>93436729
>>93436795
I didn't post it, just saw it and thought it would be funny to share here as a common thing here is to make fun of AS players, which is clearly the population you belong to

>>93436649
Clan Coyote did and they got fucked up Escorpio so it's not hard to assume that some salvage found its way there.

>>93436839
Gotcha. I like the Scorps and their weird little (wildly overpowered) empire anyhow, so that works well.

>>93431193
Hey if you get something good in a random drop, why not use it? BT is full of mercenary units becoming noteworthy through those exact circumstances

Also the SLDF Royal Marauder does not look like it's a crazy upgrade over the original. Nothing like the Royal variants of the Shadowhawk or Griffin vs their standard 3025 versions

>>93436822
Ah, but now you're talking about legality, which is very different in BT. After all, it's not a crime to shoot a peasant dead on the street in many BT polities.

Hmmm.
I believe I will paint today.

>>93436769
He also gets a double dose of the koolaid telling him he's supposed to be a benevolent champion of the people though.

>>93436915
My condolences.

>>93436746
If you genuinely think the quality of leadership in a democracy is inherently superior you likely haven't studied history. Democracies, pure Democracies in particular, are incredibly volatile and prone to being taken advantage of by demagoguery.

>>93436735
Thir habitus will naturally be different.

>>93436915
Good luck post results. I got out my moat recent batch of minis to start painting details now that base coats are done but I haven't and probably won't until tomorrow at best.

>>93436805
Battletech the beginner box, or if you’re looking for more than that the mercenary box when it’s available. Both have maps, tokens, rules, and mechs. Although I don’t know if all the stuff in the mercenary box are infotech specifically.

>>93433779

Official word is that the only ammo LBX autocannons may fire are the standard AC rounds which deal 1 cluster of 2/5/10/20 damage and have no additional effects, or LBX cluster ammo which functions as described in the rules. They are expressly forbidden from fielding precision, AP, or any other type of AC ammo whatsoever unless that ammo type specifically says that they may be used in LBC autocannons. If another AC ammo type doesn't actively *say* it may be used in LBC autocannons, they may not.

>>93436681
Out of sheer curiosity, would someone mind telling me what the problem is?

>>93436936
The Athenians didn't have a rule of law or checks and balances as we understand them.

They also still had a unified upper class that was strong enough to prevent policies that would negatively impact them, so it basically was a perfect shit-show all around.

>>93436923
They're basically like the roman emperors, where one of them had to conceed that she had a point when an old lady told him that he should quit being Emperor if he can't find the time to listen to and adress her complaints.

The house of Davion even disenfranchised the Senate.

>>93436987
It's got a lot of armour. That's it.
(The poster missed that it has hardened armour)

>>93436987
They're probably flabbergasted because the Caesar 5R is a 70 ton heavy wearing hardened armor, giving it a solid 14 armor. CBT wise, that's 26 tons of armor.

>>93436820
I don't think that's true at all. This is a modern day political tangent so I'll keep it short. It has nothing to do with the amount of violence one group holds in comparison to another, it's all about the DEGREES to which those in power are willing to use their violent compacity and MANNER they carry it out. The 20th Century is littered with failed insurgencies: Malayan Emergency, Greek Civil War, Kenyan Emergency and the pacification of Manchuria at the end of the Chinese Civil War to name a few. However, there is a large political incentive in the West to portray a counter-insurgency as conflict that's impossible to win. If the conflict was impossible to win from the outset, then no one is at fault. It's a way of saving face.

It also completely ignores the massive strategic and operational blunders which occurred at the beginning of and throughout the United State's middle east conflicts as a point of failure. Even switching to something not west related, the Syrian civil war, the Syrian Government had control over the large majority of the country in 2013 and only started breaking down in 2014 when they retardedly distributed their entire army over the country into tiny piecemeal checkpoints which were easily isolated and attacked.

Furthermore, I don't think 'modern battlefield favoring the insurgent' is accurate at all, Partisans and the Resistance were wildly effective during WW2. They would not have lasted in a modern world. I sincerely do not believe the French Resistance could've survived the kind of targeted killing campaign the west has collectively waged against IS aligned insurgents since 2014. We are hundreds of times better at tracking down people and killing them with near total impunity than they could've ever imagined.

In Battletech, they are much more likely to take a 'Philippine Insurrection' approach to the problem. Which, while effective, is indiscriminate and massively bloody

Discussion of ancient forms of government?
I am going to politely mention the youtuber Historia Civilis, he does very good breakdowns of how mostly Rome worked, but with good detail. Stuff like what exactly a Praetor or Quaestor did, how roman elections worked, as well as good breakdowns of battles.

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>>93437042
>>93437043
Thanks.

Is there an AS card for our good friend the Stalker II?

...Or the Great Turtle?

>>93436987
Its an AS card, not a proper BT record sheet.
Joking aside, from my limited understanding of AS, mostly from looking at the other cards, the Caesar has a hell of a lot of Armour, possibly more than any other in the game that I have seen, but the same Structure as a Light. Still, not an issue if your playing Battletech.

>>93436649
>does anyone run iATMs other than the Society
No. They were delclared too cool and good at the end of the reavings. So obviously, the Nobodies are going to be using them when they eventually show back up.

>>93436985
Thank you for providing what I'll consider to be the final answer on this subject; I feel relieved now.

>>93437136
>s there an AS card for our good friend the Stalker II?
>...Or the Great Turtle?

Master Unit List has cards for every variant, pretty much. You just have to print them out.

>>93437054
>Which, while effective, is indiscriminate and massively bloody

Largely the reason why people eventually started fighting outside cities in the 3rd War. Pulling that shit just got your population centers razed.

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Whoa... did I just create the perfect logistical mainstay SLDF battlemech? Straight fundamentals, nice and cheap to produce and durable to boot, just a sandard fusion engine, nothing fancy except for Endo Steel... and CASE. Look at how I jammed everything into that arm, without a single unoccupied critical slot, even the autocannon ammo. Both lasers plus two shots from the autocannon yields 20 damage, forcing a PSR. Maximum armor, all forward (except 2 point clusters in each rear torso). No need for jump jets when you can just add a couple of sneedium lasers instead, and it'll never overheat outside of an inferno, so you can just put a noob behind the wheel with orders to always alpha strike and not worry about them falling out of the sky or overheating like noobs.

Discuss my entry in the SLDF "backbone" contract competition.

>>93435026
I bought my first copy of Battletech in 1987 and picked Kurita because I thought their logo was the coolest of the bunch. STFU fake oldfag.

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>>93437203
Nice.

>>93437280
>perfect logistics
>UAC5
i dunno bout that one chief

>>93434327
Marian should be "Opfor for MoC gf(male)"

>>93437286
Try the GTR-2, she's the best girl.

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>>93437286
AS cards don't even identify the weapons?

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>>93437054
The problem with fighting insurgencies in the modern day is threefold:
>It's very easy for insurgents to get their hands on cheap but powerful weapons (small arms, IEDs, grenades, mortars, poison gas, technicals, etc.)
>These weapons are disproportionately effective against modern weaponry (a tank can be taken out by an FPV drone made of cardboard with a bomb on it, and even when it can't, a simple IED will take out its tracks)
>Modern armies are incredibly reliant on logistical supply lines that are weak to being raided

Compare that to the world of battletech, where...
>Most weapons insurgents have can't hope to even dent a battlemech
>The weapons that do exist which can do so proportionately very expensive
>Battlemechs are able to be modified to require basically no logistical supply lines at all

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>>93437280
Nice try. Only a few billion dollars in kick-backs will get that Mech into the SLDF.

So I expect an order of 2000 by next quarter.

>>93437280
>CASE in Right Torso
>no ammo in it
That's retarded and useless.

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>>93437307
Doesn't have the hilarious amount of armor (but still manages to mount the armament of a medium).

>>93437312
>>Battlemechs are able to be modified to require basically no logistical supply lines at all

>I'm out of fuel.
>Piss in the tank.

The power of the sun under the chair for my ass.

>>93437336
Take a look at that jump though. Also, I don't get the Long range dropoff there. She carries a Capped Tcomped ERPPC and has a shit ton of compact and armored components. I guess it just doesn't translate well.

>>93436985
>standard AC rounds
No. LB AC ‘slug’ rounds aren’t standard AC rounds, they’re slug rounds, there’s a difference.

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>>93437368
Not to mention that energy weapons require no reloading.
>No need for fuel lines
>No need for ammo lines
>Can fight in mountains, forests, and urban terrain better than infantry
>Immune to most mines and IEDs and missiles and drones

>>93436985
And what would a namefag know about it?

>>93437384
That's some grade A chucklebait right there. Heh.

captcha:Y8 ASS

>>93437312
>>Most weapons insurgents have can't hope to even dent a battlemech
>>93437382
BattleMechs break by falling down, often catastrophically.

>>93437402
Good luck ever making one fall down.

>>93437414
>Good luck ever making one fall down.
Good luck taking sharp turns on pavement!

>>93437414
Don't worry, the insurgents will move approximately three cubic miles of dirt to make a 1 level deep pitfall in just the right place. Surely nobody would notice the 7000 ton mountain of dirt next to the 30 by 30 by 6 meter pit.

>>93437312
You have it completely backwards. Because of the ablative armor they use, Battletech armored vehicles can never simply ignore rifle and machine gun fire the way modern armored vehicles can, and every time they get shot they need to retreat to a safe area to be re armored or else they will die to a thousand papercuts.

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>>93437441
Completely wrong. You need the equivalent of 3 120mm abrams rounds landing on the exact same spot at the exact same time to do just 1 point of damage to a battlemech's armor. It is nigh impossible for insurgents using common weapons to chip away at a battlemechs armor. And unlike modern tanks, you can't just use an IED to disable the tracks either.

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>>93436985
Going to do another MM build like this in August, but just the space stuff with some maybe slight modifications. I'll drop it here and would love to hear from the 5 existing Aero players in the world what they think of it.

>>93437312
You’re missing the point; wars are fought with weapons but won by men. The relevant factors are strategy, means, and will. It doesn’t matter if you have objectively superior weapons or not, when did a modern insurgency ever contest the air? Shoot down a strike fighter? The asymmetric advantage granted to the security force over an insurgent by air power is a direct analog for the kind of advantage a mech would give you. They can destroy with impunity but they can’t search a house or detain an agitator

And it’s a totally useless advantage if not used correctly. The world of battletech is no more and no less susceptible to the social and political phenomenon of insurgency than our modern world, the mech really didn’t change war the same way that it didn’t change politics. People will rebel for the same reason they always have, and an insurgent force rarely ever claims a victory through military means. They’re annoying until the security forces decide it’s more trouble than it’s worth and fuck off or they goad the security force into an over-reaction which wins over public support and collapses the government. Either that or the security force kills enough of them and maintains control of the populace and they disintegrate.

You see what I’m getting at?

In Battletech, you'd just hire mercenaries instead of being insurgents.

>>93437548
>hear from the 5 existing Aero players in the world what they think of it.

Gonna have to be 4. I'm finishing my Masters and starting a new job, then. I like the general thrust hehe of it. The speed mods are nice and nerfing the squadrons are too. Hope it goes good, man.

>>93437441
>>93437470
You're both completely wrong about everything you've said. I hate how retarded these threads have become.

If either of you READ THE RULES and LORE you would know how this shit works.

>>93437569
>They can destroy with impunity but they can’t search a house or detain an agitator
And that's where the Battlemechs are so useful, because they can.

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>>93437596
>they can’t search a house
>because they can

>mon-67
>crb-20
>kgc-0000
any recommendation for one last mech?
>wish there was a light crab and a heavy crab in introtech

>>93437591
And yet it is you coming here unread and ill informed.

>>93437627
Closest thing to an introtech heavy crab is probably either a Grasshopper, or one of the Warhammers that drops some of the explodey ammo.

>>93437627
The new mini-crab CGL put out is ilClan, right?

>>93437591
Bud, the rules say that a platoon of guys with cheap assault rifles and an MG section can take the leg off a light scout mech in a single volley, and even the heaviest mechs will die if they stay within range of such a force or encounter one several times in between visits to a place they can be repaired.

>>93437580
Literally explain to me how a 12M tall 100 ton war machine is going to enter an apartment building and look for weapons without utterly destroying it. Or how it can search for a single individual in said building, positively identify them and then hold them against their will for an extended period.

You’re being utterly retarded.

>>93437671
Meant for >>93437596

>>93437665
If they get very lucky with the cluster table and then roll all their hit locations in one spot, and "within range" is 3 hexes.