Historical proxy Edition >The Latest Warhammer The Old World Newshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/20/saturday-pre-orders-journey-into-a-ruined-hive-and-unleash-the-dwarfen-holds/https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/19/old-world-almanack-old-miniatures-and-new/https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/18/old-world-almanack-the-lore-of-the-dwarfen-mountain-holds/https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/15/old-world-almanack-how-the-dwarfen-mountain-holds-fare-in-battle/>TOW Official Website and Resources:https://www.theoldworld.com/https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/>Resources:WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwhWFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0HWarhammer Chronicles: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zipTime of Legends: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zipET: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zipTOW: https://gofile.io/d/ffbanD>Warhammer Wikis:https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Warhammer_Wikihttps://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page>Alternative Models:https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL>Previous Thread:>>93408354 #>Thread Question: what is your favorite proxies for WHFB?
>>93436860>TQAge of Sigmar
>>93436877Slayer need to seek a worthy death getting ambushed by some random chaos warriors or Goblins is not considered "worthy"
>>93436860>what is your favorite proxies for WHFB?They all look bad. Only GW makes models worth using for the Warhammer setting.
Highland Minis because they overall look good and are not a bitch to print and for the most part they're actually made for playing with and don't break if you look at them. Only real issue i've come across is their horses having shitty contact area with the bases.
>>93436892It's just that I just started reading serpent slayer and he hopes to die to a big lizard in the southlands or something. Doesn't seem like a very worthy death either.
>>93436912your could argue a Dragon isn't Worthy using the same logic
8th is the best edition.
>>93436898Our first Paypiggy™ has arrived!!!!! We got a love one boys!
>>93436926For me to poop on
>>93436924Dying to a random beast in the middle of nowhere accomplishing nothing just seems pointless. Dragons usually protect something or threaten people.
>>93436938you cant afford it.
>>93436926Actually the "best edition" is called Oathmark and it's not produced by GW™
>>93436898/grog/ has a list with a ton of manufacturers for old-school fantasy in general. I like that thread a lot, actually. Bit too focused on rogue trader, but the 3rd edition anons there are cool.
>>93436930You get to post a single model/kit to prove me wrong.Go
>tqFyreslayers, from AoS
>TQStormcast for chaos warriorsDinos for dinosgay vore dolls for empire
>>93436969
>>93436996Alright I'll accept this answer.
>>93436956I think it's more if the thing puts up a fight that makes it worthy rather than wether it's death is useful to the Dwarf kingdoms/Empire or notso it would be ok for Gotrek to die to a Dread Saurian/troglodon but not ok to to due to a massive horde of Clan rats or Night Goblins even if killing hundreds of Skaven or Goblins would be more of a net positive to the Dwarf Karaks
>>93436996Absolutely fucking MOGS the official minis to hell and back
>>93437035pretty telling that gw had to make brets broken as fuck this edition just to sell those models
>>93436996getting to this stage does require a bit of kitbashing though going by their own models shown off on their website
>>93437059This is zero kitbashing lmao, it's their medieval knights just head swapped with their fantasy helmet add on
Apparantly TOW is outselling AOS according to a guy who is in the know and has ties to GW managment. https://youtu.be/ZFelMC9pIXc?t=2464
>>93436926The best edition, is the edition you play with your friends and have fun with anons.
>>93436996They're alright but the paintjob is doing the heavy lifting here. And obviously it doesn't take much to beat Bret models.
>>93437078I´d believat maybe once the entire range is actually on the market
>>93437078buy an ad
>>93437078>(((squarebased)))
>>93437093>"Post a pic proving proxies look better than official models">"No not that one, that doesn't count!"
>>93436860>TQPlastic dinos, pic unrelated tho, who the fuck thinks an ankylosaur is an appropriate model for something called a 'thunder lizard'
the only, and i mean the ONLY good thing about tow is that redditrats are squatted.
>>93437147>the faggot with the worst taste in the universe hates Mordheim stuffNot shocked at this point
Does anyone have the Dwarfen Arcane journal pdf?
>>93437131someone who making a joke army list on the cheap for White Dwarf?
>>93437159try two threads ago someone posted a screenshot PDF
>>93436926I really like TOW, the rules are tighter than teenage pussy. The best we've seen yet
>>93437157>sisters of sigmarWoke slop product ngl
>>93437157get squatted lil bro
>>93437178>Skaven are from AoSOh it's an underage zoomer retard. No wonder.
>>93437147>>93437182Why would you post in a general about games when you don't play?
>>93436926Except it's not.
The setting turned to shit after 6th edition tbqh
>>93437183>fake grog doesn't know what sisters of sigmar are, thinks it's some aos thing
>>93437190mmm? this is the whfb general, my little furry reddit friend, you must be looking for the age of shitmar thread.
>>93430333Ok that makes sense thanks anon
>>93437214Could have fooled me with your gay whinefest over the actual game faggot. Shove it up your ass like you do everything else under the sun.
>>93437194What makes 5th better than 6th and ToW?I only played 8th for reference
>>93437167Same. Just the fact that I can actually field all units and don't have that winds of magic minigame makes it a vastly superior as a wargame.
>>93436960Right, you've convinced me to dive into some marauder horsemen as a way to get my spirit back into hobbying since I'm currently getting nowhere on my gors.Now the only question that remains is if I should roll up some gifts for them or leave them a bit more plain. The latter might be fitting a unit I envision as being a bit detached from the rest of the company since their main purpose for signing on as a force was because it gives their reaving ways atleast the semblance of formal justification and authority. Then again, back when I first was building the unit I did came upon the idea of making the unit champion a corrupted Witch Hunter. Even so I reckon I could justify that as the unit starting out as his escort which slowly degenerated into little more than an mounted band of thugs pillaging the countryside for their own enrichment until they abandoned virtually all of the facade and accepted the fact that they might aswell gain a few extra bucks by formally selling their services as mercs. Thematically then they'd personify the despair of the common people living in a warzone with the former witch hunter being an acceptable satirisation of the realities of just war.
>>93437227>Shove it up your ass like you do everything else under the sun.ahh... projection. a classic skavenfag technique.
>>93437246Is that a Lemmiwinks reference?
>>93437234Nothing. 5th was herohammer faggotry.
>>93437236yeah who cares that infantry is terrible and magic is just as bad as in 8th.
>>93437265>infantry is terribleThen play any of the armies with good infantry. Greenskins sure as shit aren't complaining about theirs.>magic is just as bad in 8thNot even close. Just the fact that the game doesn't stop for a minigame makes it infinitely better.
>>93437290>Then play any of the armies with good infantry.so, none of them?
>>93437296So you don't actually play?
>>93437234>What makes 5th better than 6thNo Storm of Chaos.>and ToWStill need more time to evaluate.
>>93437303i play brets. i just charge my cav forward brainlessly and win every game.
>>93437331Sure you do. >bret is only mindless charging>army with literally the best per cost infantry unit in the entire game doesn't have good infantry you guisFuck off you massive nogames memespouting retard.
>>934371948th doesn't deserve to be that high.
>>93437238A Witch Hunter staring too long into the abyss and falling is a classic trope. You could also go the route of your Horsemen being common brigands or mercenaries working for your horde in exchange for booty but slowly being corrupted by the evil influence of Chaos. A gang of highwaymen slowly devolve into savage plunderers under the dark influence of chaos.
>>93437357*counter charges your argument*
>>93437440*plops down 40-120 pts of men at arms and bogs you down for multiple turns*
>>93437452ah yes, because your slow unit gets to dictate where i charge. brilliant as ever, nogames.
>>93437465>puts them in front of the units you want to charge>now have to maneuver around them or go through themYeah you definitely play the game alright.
>>93437474>zoomie nogames roadblocks his own units with dogshit peasantslmao
>>93437492>>93437474>>93437440>>93437357All you niggers are no games. Bretonnia has the best Archers no cap fr fr
>>93437565>How are SoB miracles not psykery?Idl, maybe the blokes from /40kg/ know why.
>>93437570Sorry, wrong thread.
Just want to get this off my chest, but 40k is a piss poor successor to WFB.
>>93437586but 40k is the better game, and setting.
>>9343758640k is not WFB's successor though; that'd be AoS, which is an even shittier game.
>>93437643zoomie.
>>93437586tow is WFB's successor, the game with dogshit rules and gay nu-lore.
>>93437650Yes, I know you are; yet I do not see what that has anything to do with your previously incorrect statement.
>>9343767040k came out after warhammer.
>>93437658I haven't read a BL (lol) book since I was like 14.
>>93437677And both games have existed in parallel since then, until AoS succeeded WFG.
>>93437677and eclipsed it immediately
>>93437702wfb*
>>93437609Better game maybe, but setting wise, no. There's no humanity or logic to the setting. It's just grimdark. The average citizen is either starving and getting tortured to death by hivers, or a starving slave working 20 hours per day with no days off of grueling work. The main food source on many worlds is corpse starch, which is made from dead humans. Love and happiness are considered to be heretical, and hate and servile submission are the only emotions you're allowed to feel. Absolutely no viewpoint character in 40k has human motivations. There are no small human moments to make you empathize with characters. Like a WFB story may have characters flirting with one another, daydreaming, having charming idiosyncracies, or just being people. This is missing from 40k as the theme is nihilistic dehumanization.Whenever something good is happening, the protagonists will sabotage it at the last moment. Like the Eldar came within seconds of killing Slaanesh, only to be backstabbed by the Imperials because the Imperial commander found out that having Slaanesh around meant that Eldar souls get tormented forever in the afterlife and decoded their misery is worth having a chaos god around.Another case is the squats, who were doing a pretty good job holding back the Tyranids from getting a foothold in the galaxy, only to be backstabbed by the Imperials, thus allowing the nids into the milky way.Or take the case of the Necrons, who nearly shut the eye of terror only to get backstabbed by the Imperials, their pylons blown up and their planet size ship destroyed.It's like Mannfred on repeat for eternity.Also, everyone in 40k is disgustingly ugly. Like a bit of body-horror here and there, but does everyone need to look like they were kissing a giant stapler?
>get 9 wide daemonic vessel'd charge into tree kin infernal guard sorcerer prophet>do a single woundFuck I hate this game.
>>93437807People call the Imperium the skaven of 40k for a reason, and it's not just because of how they play on the tabletop.
>>93437807>There's no humanity or logic to the setting.this is a good thing, fantasy tried it, and realized it was stupid to try and apply that from 400 other stolen works.
>>93437194What makes TOW so good? I only play Warhammer Renaissance with three other people and I’m completely out of the loop on TOW.
>>93436860>15th century minis>english civil war flag
>>93436877>>93436912Maybe it's because he also wanted Felix to be able to write it down afterwards and not just... fucking die in the Chaos Wastes?Plus the Chaos Wastes are fucking cold, and dying of hypothermia isn't a great death.
>>93437841It's a fun wargame where you can actually play a variety of different armies even within the same faction and it lends itself well to narrative fun without requiring you to treat it as pure beer & pretzels play. As for it's placement, probably because it's somewhat similar to a cleaned up 6th edition.
>>93437852You make that comment every time brotha
>>93437882>it's somewhat similar to a cleaned up 6th edition.its inferior to 6th in every way. tow is just a sloppier version of 5th
>>93437886Never told you that before.
Saw one of you fat faggots shopping at my LGS in suspenders and crocs looking at O&G stuff while me and my bro were there. Actually repulsive. Orcs is a /fit/ faction so I am blogposting about fats shitting up my green roidmonkeys. How can you build kino miniatures of knights and warriors and look like a fucking bag of milk yourself?
>>93437234Better army books, more units, more freedom in list building, rules are more fun and silly.Also Chaos isn't divided into 3 factions so you can actually build a cool army with mortals, beastmen and daemons in it.
>>93437921Fuck OFF FAGGOT. THIS IS THE GROUNDED SERIOUS WARHAMMER. NO FUN AND SILLY HERE.
>>93437945TOW doesn't mind silly as seen by all the random OnG mechanics so I don't know what you're on about
>>93436860>TQProbably the classic "square bits of paper with the unit name written on" since it's less confusing than using something like space marines as dwarfs.
>>93436860>tq
>>934378826th enjoyer here, this is bullshit, it isn't like 6th. TOW has premeasuring, percentage based list building, a totally different magic system, bigger bases which change the table prescence of armies (pic related, if nearly every unit takes up 25% more space it has a major impact) and much more shit setting it apart from 6th. Anyone who thinks this has not actually played 6th edition or wasn't paying any attention when they did.
>>93438092who cares? just play on old bases and use ToW rules there's no interactions specifically calling for base sizes besides to and from measurements. You don't play any games.
>>93438122well it does affect templateslike the doom bolt spell, for exampleI'm pretty casual & I've only played 3 games of 6th and 3 games of TOW, so I can't say which one I prefer, but I really miss the magic phase.and the lores for slaanesh, tzeentch and nurgle...
>>93438122>just play on old bases and use ToW ruleswhy? ToWs rules are trash
>>93438122The larger unit footprint for the same unit size makes the table effectively smallerit also impacts the usefulness of templates as >>93438161 saysevery single time I point out a few of the major differences betweein TOW and 6th though someone like you assumes I am making a judgement against TOW and ignore everything I say except the base size thing when I'm just saying they're different, and it isn't like 6th more than any other edition that does things differently to it. Enjoy TOW if you like, I prefer 6th, but they are not alike.
lmao they really squatted all the lores of magic and replaced them with soulless generic rpg slop magic and justified it as "magic was different back in le gay bretonnian poet times 200 years ago".
>>93438199Mate, once you realize that literally half the people you meet have an IQ below 100, and the percentage of sub100 IQs is significantly higher if you're talking to a non white, you will realize how futile and pointless is it to argue with people online. You made valid criticism, they literally cannot understand it because they are actually retarded
What do you think the statistics of beastmen orgins are? I'm thinking40% Raped farm animals30% Born to beastmen does (also rape)20% Born mutants from normal human parents9% Raped human captives (simply because the odds of them living long enough to birth is dubious)1% Humans mutating later in life
>>93438224More like they squatted the most soulcrushing minigame to have ever shat up a wargame.
>>93438199>what is subtextWhen you write in aggressive or confrontational way, people are going to view what you write as disparaging something.
>>93437921>Also Chaos isn't divided into 3 factions so you can actually build a cool army with mortals, beastmen and daemons in it.6th had allies rules for chaos though
>>9343823679% rape seems pretty probable for beastmen.
>>93438247ah yes, changing the magic phase meant they needed to squat the lores and replace them with retarded soulless shit, very good post shill.
>>93438247Lore =/= balance. Purple sun could exist in tow (or something with the same function) and it would be just as retarded as it was in fantasy.
>>93438255>aggressive writingBOO NIGGA I'M SCARY GRRR RARGH
for warhammer fantasty RPG 2e or 4e?
>>93438255when you see a swear word does your brain just shut off entirely?
>>93438335towddlers cant handle mean words or criticism of any kind. only unthinking positively is acceptable to their heavily fluoridated gaze
>>93438262They weren't even allies, they were functionally 1 army list, with your general dictating which units were core and which units were special. It was an elegant system.
>>93438262not quite, it was spread across 2 army books but the way the chaos list in 6th works is whatever your general is (mortal, beast, daemon) your core choices are, so a beastlord makes beastmen core, a prince makes daemons core and so on. There are items and upgrades to change what counted as core, allowing things like a mortal chaos lord leading a daemonic horde. anything not in your general's core selection is then automatically a special choice unless it's listed under rare, which is rare for everybody regardless of type (like giants).
>>93438236>9% Raped human captives (simply because the odds of them living long enough to birth is dubious)Honestly I think this is the most up-played orgin story in beastmen. Its always brought up but the idea that a woman is able to not be eaten long enough, let enough kept well enough to rear a child in captivity is something that only a beastlord could really pull off. Unless somehow men also get to father bestmen
>>93438423forgot to add the magic item lists are also shared, with a few exceptions that say 'beast characters only' any chaos character could use items from either book.
>>93436860>>93436996I swear nothing makes me more annoyed than "Just use proxies" It just comes off as redditMaybe I LIKE the cartoony aspects of BretonniaMaybe the fantastical elements of the empire like the wacky guns blending with historical aspects make the empire really rad
>>93437535>Bretonnia has the best Archers no cap fr frFor chaff that pisses you off by plinking and flanking but you don't want to deal with because they're worth fuckall points Hobgoblins are supreme tho.
>>93438469>calls others reddit >loves the cartoonish manchild proportionsLmao...
>>93438510Not quoted but you are very reddit with your inane ritualposting and perry-shitting.
>>93438447>Unless somehow men also get to father bestmenWhat greater reason is their for becoming a champion of chaos than getting to shag sexy ass beastdoes
>>93436996Who's this manufacturer?
>>93438527Yeah I wish it was written in the corner of the pic
>>93438521Using the powers of the dark gods to achieve your personal ambitions & having a cool posse of chaos bros.Warband > goat pussy
>>93438510>its reddit to like that warhammer is cartoonyIs someone gonna tell him?
reminder that 40k is better.
>>93438772>my steaming pile of shit smells better than yours! Lmao....
>>93438782Go back to thinking that you zogzlop discord wiggazipzap.
>>93437131Yeah, everyone knows thunder lizards are stegosaurus
>>93437206Also the filler units. Dwarven cavalry wood elf heavy infantry things like that.
>>93437609>40k is a good gameYeah maybe in 4th edition
>>93437658You know anon, you can just ignore it. I legitimately don’t care what they do to the lore it’s already been ruined for both settings so just pick and choose what you like. I’m presuming, by your autistic fixation on lore and narrative, that you are an American.
>>93438183A game I can actually play is infinitely better than a game nobody plays. But you wouldn’t comprehend that nogames
>>93438361Sorry but I play old world and fifth edition. How much has my pineal gland calcified?
>>93438510>no mom this is a serious game for serious people! Look at the art! It’s so serious! You must be one of those troons that spends hours in discord arguing over lore minutae
>>93439232totally fossilized im afraid
>>93439219you can play any game you like without gw's permission if you have actual friends lol
>>93439256said friends have to break the cycle of gwslop and paypigging. One of them even pays for slop hammer+. Still a WIP
Let's say I have Bertrand l'Brigand, Hugo le Petit, and Gui Les Gros, along with 12 unarmoured archers, and I want to use them in a game.Would running them as a 12 or 15 man strong unit of Squires on foot, with full command, and the Fire & Flee and Scouts special rules purchased be the best way to run them?They'd probably be good as a warmachine or wizard hunter unit, right? Just have them fuck off somewhere on the board trying to do as much damage as possible before being driven off.
>>93439370It's only 150 points so try it out. I don't think you need scouts given that they've got a 30-in range and Vanguard already.
So I want to actually make a Dwarven army, but I have no clue about unit sizes/composition.What's the proper unit size for various types? How many Ironbreakers or Hammers do I need to have an effective unit? Same for Warrior and Quarrellers.Are two handed weapons worth it on warriors? Or shield on Quarrellers?
So, did we ever get anything more than the 6th Ed 'ravening hordes project' Dogs of War army list?The more I read about their overall lore and specific regiment tidbits the cooler they seem to collect. I'm mainly wondering if there's any other army lists or 'army books' they have gotten before or after 6th ed's aforementioned army list
>>93439795You would know the answer to these questions if you actually played the game.
>>93439809Warhammer Armies Project Dogs of War are pretty cool.
>>93439872Yea, that's why I'm asking before I start buying shit. Because I want to play the game but have no idea what to get and how to assemble them.
>>9343979520 for units of elites and warriors is fine, 10-16 for ranged troops. You can use shieldbearer characters to bulk out the size if you want.Dwarves don't need huge units since they are pricey and such bricks.
should i give my peasants billheads, or simple spears? I feel that theyll look cooler with the bills, and I can jsut proxy them as spears when rules demand.
>>93439872probably why he's asking you stupid cunt
>>93439872>how do I start playing the game?>you would know if you were already playing the gameBased retard
>>93440008Make 'em pay the bill.
This perry fag really is a relentless shitposter
>>93440101Who and what is a Perry fag?
>>93440125NTA but there's this one guy who has a historical army of Perry Miniatures' models he constantly posts exact same shitty images of and it always accompanies shitposting, both in /wfg/ and /hwg/ and I think even /awg/. Total loser.
>>93440008>a minor aesthetic change where one pointy polearm is used for another is a proxy nowjesus it's getting out of hand
>>93440135I've seen more posts getting assmad about him when he's not posted in the thread that day than I have seen posts from him. people need to get a grip.
>>93440144I'm trying to make it edition agnostic, and I think I can justify in older renditions if I ever want to run them with spears by using the logic "a bill's just a fancy spear".I thought proxy was a apt descriptor. Sorry.I'm going to far as to try and find a way to chop up scans of knight models to see if I can magnetize their arms and waists so I can take a knight off his horse, swap his Lance arm for a sword arm, and click his body into a pair of legs so that I have a on foot and mounted version of each knight. I'm only going to determine the unique heraldry of every single one after I get that sorted out.>>93440135Oh, yeah, that guy. Personally I feel that using historical out of box is cheap and denies you the vibe and aesthetic of Warhammer, but it wouldn't be so bad if only he put little warhammer-y details on them.
>>93440160>but it wouldn't be so bad if only he put little warhammer-y details on them.this, a little effort goes a long way.
How do proxyfags cope with the fact that Perry doesn't make wizards, steam tanks, hellblasters and so on?
>>93440160>using historical out of box is cheap and denies you the vibe and aesthetic of WarhammerExactly my dude. Even just a few things sells it far better. They look entirely out of place otherwise with nothing to tie them in to the setting.
>>93440172How about you post some of yours instead of screehcing at people who aren't even here schizo-kun
>>93440172Hint: they don't actually play Warhammer
>>93437044It's what GW does, powercreeps each new model to sell it and then eventually resetting the game with a new edition when it has been destroyed by the powercreep.
>>93438423Eventually they'll get around to making a similar armylist for Chaos. It's probably not going to happen in the Arcane Journal but at the very least whenever they'll get around to the Great War.
'ump.
Iron rats
>>93440651Rat-tlers, if you will.
>>93433740Yup. Even warlord games are similar.
>>93440667Rat Hitlers??
>>93440678No, more clanky and rattle-y
>>93440678Rats that rattle
>>93440674Always found warlord landsknecht pikes awkward looking. Not sure why.
>>93440461>King BelegarI thought he was still a prince when Gotrek went to Eight Peaks.
>>93440738Speaking of, what's his status during TOW? I have his model though I guess using it as a generic oathstone lord suits me fine.
>>93440752just run him as a genric King on a oathstone
>>93440181>"proxyfags aren't even here">a proxyfag made this thread when the old one was still on page 9, so that he could make it about proxies>thread edition: proxy>thread photo: proxy>thread question: proxyBut they aren't here, right anon
>>93440758and is this "proxy" in the room with you right now?
>>93440764Regurgitating a meme you heard on here doesn't do anything when you've already been proven wrong.
i finished my BRetonnia Army today!Magnetized and based, just lacking some transfers.I started posting here 3 Months ago and you fucks helped me a lot, thanks for that.For The Lady!
>>93440757I will. To be fair I really don't care about the timeline thing and about what GW deems acceptable. Still, kinda curious what he's up to.
>>93440808Looks good.Did you start with black and red and then start experimenting?
>>93440825yes, it was a forgiving color scheme and from then on I went with more vibrant schemes.
>>93440814He's likely still a beardling, living under his father's rule (king Buregar) and - even then - dreaming of retaking Eight Peaks.
>>93440808nice work anon!>basedbased indeed!What's next? A few games? Maybe a grass mat and some trees for them for future photos?
>>93440808Nice anon. Did you do much converting or have you kept things neat?
I'm bored so let's speculate about what we think we'll see and what we would like to see in future Arcane Journals.I'll go first:For WoC I think that it's a pretty fair bet that one of the lists will be mono-god wherein you lock yourself to the mark of your general. To help lend the different mono-armies some style of their own I'd imagine we'd see not only mark specific banners and magic items but also grant champions in said armies access to mutations for which purpose new mark-specific ones will be added. In terms of new characters I could see a sort of warpriest-esque shaman appear with mark specific bound-spells to buff the unit he's included in. The Warshrine will return as a unit with similarly unique bound spells that are thematically in line with what mark you give it. As an example the tzeentchian warhsrine might very well be a casting battery and/or a psuedo-artillery piece whereas the khornate one would grant a wide aura of Magic Resistance aswell as some kind of combat-buff spell while the nurglite one has an aura that weakens nearby enemy units.For Beastmen an obvious list seems to me to be a minoherd for which they'd allow Gorebulls to be your BSB. Then again I'm not so sure how they would actually go about doing it since it does seem kinda limiting to restrict it to only Minotaurs and their character-equivalents, Cygors and Ghorgons, not to mention that a core full of Minotaurs seem quite OP. I'm not sure either if it would help to do as with the O&G grand army and force you to take a character for every unit of minotaurs and bull-like behemoth. Maybe they could add Bovigors as a unit to make the army more even? Given their fluff they could be a unit of non-skirmishing infantry that bridges the gap between gors and bestigors. To further make them have their own niche they could come with light armour and shields but have the options to upgrade to Heavy Armour and take thrusting or throwing spears or even halberds.
>>93440101I only need to make one post and you losers go wild, like moth to a flame
>>93441020>Wood elves arcane journalI think the first list will be a Wild hunt one focusing on wild riders, wardancers and deepwood scouts (please give killing blow at half range back please) featuring Orion.Second will be a tree list with either Drycha or more likely Durthu.Trees will continue to underwhelm and the hunt list will have cool bonuses but be crippled by the force organisation so neither will really be used.
I understand that Skaven are at the bottom of the pile in terms of winning games, but what sorts of builds are having the most success? I'd like to pick up an army that is cross-compatible with OW, 6E and 8E but don't know which units are the best to focus with. My favourite Clan has always been Skryre so my main concern is if I can build a decent army using weapon teams, jezzails, WLC and Doomwheels.Can anyone try explaining exactly why Skaven are suffering so badly in competitive events?
>>93441020>EmpireI'm expecting a Middenheim/Ulric theme, and a Marienburg/Mercenary theme.Ulric is essentially a reprint of the SoC list and has Teutogen Guard back in production. Melee-dominant, lots of Knights, minimal shooting.Marienburg gets lots of mercenary allowances and maybe ties in some Dogs of War pikemen and Maneaters. The Landship goes back into production, maybe the Ironsides/Manann's Blades as well.
>>93441101I Heard the Landship mould got destroyed so that one is unlikely to be used
>>93441063I can see that though depending on what gets restricted Hunt might be quite impactful. I expect both will not be the level of vanilla as I imagine they will not have the dragon.
All right you nignogs wanna talk about proxies then make yourselves useful: are there any models(stl, physical, whatever) of not-Skavenslaves out there that actually look like Warhammer Skaven as they've existed for the last two decades? IE, not oldhammer stuff, not furfag stuff, just skinny emaciated rat dudes with chains and minimal rags.
>>93440808That's a beautiful army, anon. Congratulations!
>>93441211>make yourselves usefulNot your personal army, fucko.
>>93441080>which units are the best to focus withThe ones you like the most, of course.>My favourite Clan has always been Skryre so my main concern is if I can build a decent army using weapon teams, jezzails, WLC and Doomwheels.Yes>Can anyone try explaining exactly why Skaven are suffering so badly in competitive events?Don't get caught up in the minmaxing tournament shit anon, if you think clan skryre is cool then start planning what custom names you're going to give to each of your war machines in your upcoming skaven army.
Just found a new source for dwarf stls what do you think? Too cartoony? I'm a big fan of rackham aand classic dwarves so these are perfect
>>93441304I like them, almost an asterix tier nose.
>>93441080Well the first thing you need to do is get started on a regiment. Don't even think about competitiveness or any of that until you at least have two regiments and one hero. From there, you can start looking at what you want to add, especially if you also want to play 6th edition. Warhammer Fantasy isn't about "builds", it's about making an army you think is cool.
>building tomb guard>I'll put a weapon on the musician's hip so he can defend himself>cut sword off an arm >discover the swords are as tall as the skeletons and it would look like shit, probably poke into the skeleton behind Heroic scale sometimes man
>>93441304They look fun! Better than they looked in the grey resin photos I've seen of them.
>>93441304They're really big.
>>93441348Put it on his back.
>>93441356> STLs> Too bigJust scale them down then
>>93441304>Too cartoony?No such thing.
>>93441382I'll see if it works after I put him on a base.
>>93441080>builds LMAO go back to League of Legends and 40k you fucking faggot
>>93441063I could groove to the hunt and yeah treeple seems like a given. >>93441101I'd love to see that!>>93441304I love momminiatures dwarfs which makes it such that much more that they tower over GW's manlets.
>>93441593they're probably the same size as the huge new dwarf models they're putting out with the new release now, lmao
>>93441211Why not use the most ragged clanrats from the old and new boxes? They're dirt cheap online.
>>93441080>Can anyone try explaining exactly why Skaven are suffering so badly in competitive events?The current edition doesent favor them very well. Skaven as is lack a good way to deal with the very heavy threats like enemy characters and monsters, and they have some of the more restrictive force organization. They can still be very good at killing infantry and cavalry, but they cant deal with dragons very well. The good news is that the doomwheel and jezzails are still very good, even if the WLC is really really bad. HOWEVERDo not focus too much on that sort of thing for your first army, your first couple dozen games are going to be you getting stomped into the dirty no matter the army because thats just the nature of warhammer, its a game with very decisive outcomes a lot of the time and a difference in experience or skill can be very substantial.
>>93439795>>93439795I just ordered a bunch myself and have no experience playing them, but based on what I know from playing other stuff and what I've played against:-Big melee units you want larger to absorb casualties and maintain ranks since Dwarfs are about being tanky. Drilled is also huge to go wide when it's time to beat face. 12-16 4 wide for defensive units like Warriors, 5 or 6 wide for units that do damage.-Ranged units go 1 rank and wide so you aren't losing shots. You found being extra ranks and use them as a combat block but that seems wasteful.-Great Weapons seem bad on warriors since you lose shield wall, but they would be ok on ranged units to make them more versatile if you want to spend. -Shields on ranged units are good, that extra pip of armor can keep them firing longer.
>>93437702Not in parallel. 40k's massive success led to WHFB's massive failure. 40k is why the suits believed that WHFB was beyond hope and needed to go full crack fantasy. Just like 40k.
You guys will be abiding by the Community FAQ right? It just dropped.https://woehammer.com/2024/07/26/old-world-community-faq-july-2024/?amp=1
>>93441731>woehammerBiggest well-poisoner of comfy warhammer fantasy vibes right now. FOH with that shit. Don't even buy an ad, I just don't wanna see it.
>>93441731I LOVE WOEHAMMER I DONATE so much money to see more warhammer coverage, I hope they get their way. Warhammer fantasy has never been a beer and pretzel game and I will see to it that the competitive aspect to it gets realized.
>>93440172Just buy a wizard.Convert your own steam tank or hell blaster. Also they're not proxies. A wizard isn't a proxy for a wizard. A hand made steam tank isn't a proxy for a steam tank.
>>93441731Since none of the contributors are from my country, I won't be abiding by them.
>>93441731That pdf is formatted so poorly.What were they thinking?
>>93441731Woehammer and Squarebased linked up.
>>93441080I haven't played them yet myself in TOW, but I will grab some spacers and update mine at some point. I think the main reasons Skaven haven't found success is their lack of big monsters and cav, which are where a lot of other armies get their strength from. Monsters and cav focus a lot of damage into a small area and can overwhelm units by killing the front rank and taking nothing back. On top of that, Skaven don't really have an answer to cav and monsters. Shooting is fairly weak and your infantry don't really hold up to anything.Stuff I want to try out includes the obvious clanrat core with weapon teams. Every team but the grinders seem good, Doom Flayers hit hard with counter charge, Mortars ignore armor and wound everything, Ratlings and Warpfire I'm less sure on. Giant Rats are cheap and fast chaff, seem fine. Gutters look genuinely good. A Plague Furnace and Monks with the Razor Standard look promising. A Grey Seer is a must and you can do fun stuff with his lores. Doomwheels seem solid dropping a bunch of templates. Catapults look good too. The Storm Banner might be a decent answer to dragons. I think Rat Ogres might be ok as disposable pseudo cav. The biggest loss to me as a fellow Skryre fan is how dogshit the warp lightning cannon is.
>>93441020Fuck it, I'm bored again; let's talk gifts and magic items for the AJ:WoC!I'll start out by saying that I don't think that a mono-list would include the option of going all in on undivided. For one thing, how would you go about themeing stuff for it?That being so I'mma go ahead and list some things I'd like to see, starting with gifts:>Khorne>Unbridled Wrath: The champion is stricken by a rage that burns so hot that those gathering around him can't help but share it. This model and any unit he's joined (but not the mounts) gain Furious Charge. >Suppressing Smell: The potent musk of the model unnerves nearby wizards who struggle to concentrate on their magic.Any wizard (friend or foe) within 12 inches of this model suffer -1 to their casting rolls.>Slaanesh>Maddening March: The model's unnatural charisma inspires his men to pick up the pace in order to follow along with his swift stride.The model and any unit he joins gain +1 to M.>Divine Beauty: So wonderful to behold is this champion that it takes nigh on supernatural willpower to raise your hand against him. Any model wishing to target this model must first pass a LD-test.
>>93441731>The intention of this document is to allow TOs...Wish I'd stopped reading there. >What is a shooting attack? Wish I'd stopped reading there. >Can a full unit of archers shoot at a large target? (A question directly addressed in the most recent FAQ, repeated here in their own super special FAQ)Stopped reading there.Busybodies. A useless barnacle on the side of an otherwise fine wargaming community.
>>93442008>Tzeentch>Maddening Mirages: To gaze upon the champion is a brief descent into madness as all sorts of visions flicker in and out of sight between the beholder and the champion, obscuring the path forward. Anyone charging or fighting the model (or the unit he's in, unless engaging from a different side than what the wearer is situated in) do so as if Difficult Terrain.>Duplication: The champion is gifted the power to split into two smaller versions of himself at will.In close-combat, instead of attacking normally, the model can choose to double his attacks at the cost of striking at half S.>Nurgle>Magnificient Miasma: The champion excudes a vile, horrendous smell that chokes the surrounding air.Anyone attacking the model or the unit he is in suffer -1 to WS.>Nurgle's Rot: The champion is a carrier of Nurgle's foulest disease.In every combat phase that the chsmpion is engaged in combat any enemy models in base contact with the champion suffers a S1 hit that ignores all armour (ward saves and regeneration saves can still be done as normal).
Tackling my pile of metal models.
>>93442017>suffers a S1 hitCome to think about it, perhaps exposing my ignorance here, but I don't think I've ever seen a S1 hit in the game.I like the -1WS. I'm a nurgle warriors player and like having very tanky core. However nurgles mark already forces the opponent to reroll hits of 6, and if I take them as Chosen I can get a 6+ ward save too. And if I cast fleshy abundance the unit gets +1T. So at some point my attention turns away from tankyness and toward damage output. I think poisoned weapons would be quite fitting. Or impact hits, since they're fat bastards!
>>93442082Saw them in the last thread anon they still look kino, surprised by how nice more metal looks on skaven I’m finishing up my ogre bruiser with cannibal totem
>>93442082They do look really cool anon! The bare metal effect is very original, haven't seen it done on skaven before. >>93442100Great stuff as always anon, is the scythe a digital kitbash or a physical one? IIRC it doesn't come on the model, right?
>>93442100Looks good, but that's a gross amount of base overhang.
>>93442100Imagine the smell
>>93442114>>93442100Thanks. The bare metal makes they fast to paint too and one of the goals of this project is to paint stuff relatively fast.
>>93442114Thanks anon! It’s a physical one, the guy who originally owned a stonehorn I got gifted gave his hunter a death guard scythe. I swapped it into this model
>>93442116It is but I play casually so if something is like that we just get as close as we can, and estimate charges etc based on what it would actually be
>>93442008>>93442017Magic Item time, baby!>Khorne:Cleavers of Carnage: The consequence of being on the wrong end of these fabled blades is enough to unnerve the boldest of men.Magic Weapon: Requires both hands, +1 attack, AP-1, Killing Blow, After the first sucessful killing blow done by this weapon the wearer also causes Terror for the remainder of the game.>Spiked Armour: This baroque armour is covered in big spikes capable of impaling those who don't move out of the wearer's way.Magic Armour: Plate Armour, Impact Hits (2). >Slaanesh:>Shield of Whispered Promises: Within this shield a daemon is rumoured to be bound whose untold tiny mouths cover the surface of the shield where their whispers invade the mind of those who stand against its master. Enemy models in combat with the champion and his unit suffer -1 to I.I got things to do now so I leave the rest to you.
>>93442253I feel like a fun khorne thing would be something like (either as a demonic gift or as a part of a magic weapon).Bloodlust of khorne:For every unsaved wound caused by the bearer in close combat they can immediately make an additional attack. Any misses hit an allied model in base contact. (maybe add "or the wielder if there are none")Wounds caused on friendly units count towards the enemies close combat resolution.
>>93441731>gorundOpinions fucking discarded, Jesus Christ
>>93437194>5th best fantasy edition>5th best 40k editionWhat is it that makes 5 the most KINO number?
>>93437807>There's no humanity or logic to the setting.This nigga never read Dead Men Walking and saw how it opens with the main character trying to propose to his girlfriend on a romantic date before he gets nervous and fails to do so before the factory he manages is damaged by a rising Necron column.
>>93441731>Q: [...] separate?>A: [...] seperate.The questions, the formatting, the errors.. it all reads like midwits trying to explain the game to each other kek
>>93442484There are kernels of good stuff in 40k, but it's still mostly shit pile. Unlike Warhammer which is mostly good stuff, with some kernels of shit
>>93437194Anon 5th is literally 4th with two pages of errata, those are still the best though
>>93442605uh huh. yeah fuck off queer, Primaris are king and mog the shit out of anything Brets or the Empire has ever put out combined.
>>93437921>Also Chaos isn't divided into 3 factions so you can actually build a cool army with mortals, beastmen and daemons in it.I mean the only reason you can't do that now is because demons are legacy. You can still make a list with beastmen and chaos warriors if you want.
>>93437921>Also Chaos isn't divided into 3 factions so you can actually build a cool army with mortals, beastmen and daemons in it.Yea, those 2 whole beastmen units really add to the flavor.
>>93441635Why is wlc so bad? Seems pretty decent from the games I played.
>>93441562God that screencap goes hard.
>>93442750yeah jerk off your own post some more.
>>93442739>2 unitsit's a whole army book you retard
>>93442743Its unreliable range wiseGot restrictive firing arcs since it cant go over your own unitsAnd isnt any good at killing the elite stuff you need it to kill due to its variable strength and single wound damage outputIts bad at the things you want a cannon to do (long range elimination of singular threats), bad at what it used to do (killing lots of heavy infantry and cav) and not particularly good at whatever the hell its supposed to do now.
>>93442760Beastmen do not have a whole army book in 5th edition retard, they have less than a handful of units in the Chaos book.
>>93440144It is quite literally using a different weapon as a substitute for another, how is it not a proxy?
>>93441845Warhammer games aren't miniature agnostic anon
>>93441562This, I absolutely fucking hate when people come into threads like this asking ‘what’s good?’ as their first question.It immediately shows you aren’t viewing this as a hobby but a competition
>>93439892Didn't know they did a DoW army list. I'll check it out, thanks anon
>>93442631>Primaris are king and mog the shit out of anything Brets or the Empire has ever put out combined.oh yeah? what about... PRIMARIS BRETONNIANS? CHECKMATE 40GAY!
>>93442916>picThe more I look at this, the more I think this would be OK as a peasant who larps as a knightI assume someone who draw this never saw a knight outside of WoW and some silly cartoons
>>93437852>wizards and dragons>still from the worst ahistorical, afantastical pile of shit ever shat out by humanity
>>93442916Look man we need more iconic designs like this that we can copyright instead of boring potatosacks no one likes.
>>93442822Every game is miniature agnostic. Anyone who says otherwise is a brainwashed consooooomer.
>>93442872I get it though. They are legitimately buckbroken from 40K. 40k balance is so bad. It will actively create a negative experience if you don't optimize. Like not: >Man I sure hasn't an uphill battleMore>It's turn 1, and there's no hope of recovery. I guess I play to see if I can kill a single enemy unit? Or should I scoop so they can do it again?
>>93442995this but unironiclly
>>93443045sounds like its no different from the old world
>>93437852>15th century minisWhat century do you think the Empire is trying to represent?
>>93443056If you're getting charged turn 1 in TOW is because you fucked up. I would know, because I've fucked up.
>>93443045>They are legitimately buckbroken from 40K.NTA but I agree here. I think sometimes people have to be told it's OK to just collect what you think is cool, give your dudes names and a story, and play against others who take the same approach. You just don't see that in 40k media any more (apart from maybe minisodes imo). My response in >>93441288 is toned down from what I originally wrote because halfway through I remembered that sometimes people have just never been told it's a hobby and not a competition, like the other anon said.
>>9344307616th, you clown.Empire is renessance, right after Martin Luther posted his cringe and the conquest of the new worldBretonnia is 13th century
>>93443076a mess of unwanted shit
>>93443103So pic related is better?
>>93443136Way more, and their proportions are much more closer to Empire's troopers
>>93438447Broo?
>>93440808Unfortunately anon you seem to have glued them onto bizarrely large bases, you really should just use the bases the model came with as now they look like they're standing around in a field
>>934424545th ed was terrible for 40k. every single codex lost at least a third of its options and some lost more while getting nothing but flyers. flying circus lists begin here, absolutely terrible faction balance.
>>93442872I mean, I don't like playing stuff that's bad. Even just having a baseline expectation going in to your games helps people learn the system faster and get comfortable enough to try things out for themselves.
>>93443153>much more closer to Empire's troopersOof. I didn't think they were that bad. >>93438236>20% Born mutants from normal human parentsThis is too high imo. You can't really be a threat if a big chunk of the population is kids with birth defects from a bigger population. My head cannon is that there are chaos cults devoted to minor beastmen gods that fuck beast men and animals and shit and are responsible for boosting beastman population. And opening town gates because beastmen are too retarded to figure out siege weapons. >>93443161Would have been better if beastmen stuck closer to their Broo origins.
>>93443189If they're at the point of learning the system then the last thing they need to be worrying about is which units in a given army are "meta" right now
>>93443185>flyersBeginning of the death of 40k for me.
>>93436860>TQI'm using rocks that I pick up in my backyard as proxies. They are historical, so it's allowed.
>>93436926I liked 8th before Storm of Magic. Masses of infantry charging at each other felt really good, even if that model was not sustainable.
>>93443245well, that is what a proxy is, so go ahead.
>>93436926I like 6th caise thats what i started with and have a fuckton of models from those days. Also, ive never played anything else.
>>93437131You're right, neither of them is an ankylosaurus.
>>93443258did storm of magic really mess up the balance that bad? the spells seem like they'd be good fun
>>93441304Their muscles look weird. I hope it's just a paint scheme issue.
>>93443136i wish these were available as STLs.
>>93443349I think the shading they did didn't really help. Makes the striations look like gashes.>>93443366They're cheap plastic though. And an excuse to buy American.I don't even play Empire, and I'm tempted to get some.
>>93443332Magic was already really strong in 8th (a good vortex could sometimes let you win the game on its own) and SoM only made it stronger. Which in turn means that the actual models stopped mattering, because they'd likely all get wiped out by magic before being able to do anything.
>>93443396that, unfortunately, makes a lot of senseI really like the magic phase and using a lot of wizards, but it's not fun if it's too powerful and it eclipses the rest of the gamesuch a shame. I hope their past failures doesn't stop GW from trying to make another magic expansion. Especially for TOW, magic feels bad right now despite being pretty useful.
>>93442093Ive done it after being debuffed by goblin bullshit. I still won the combat though lmao.
>>93442093>but I don't think I've ever seen a S1 hit in the game.That mutation was the one I lifted wholesale from a previous edition. I used it quite a lot in 8th on a big based model. >at some point my attention turns away from tankyness and toward damage output. Fair point. However, what I like about a WS nerf for Nurgle is that it's both a improvement to their durability aswell as their chance to land a blow.>I think poisoned weapons would be quite fitting. I agree but I wanted to avoid doing what's basically just importing Beastmen items. Otherwise poisoned weps would be a perfect thing to give Nurgle. Maybe instead the miasma could force T-save which, if failed, makes the enemy suffer -1 to T. It wouldn't be anything special against tough stuff but it would certainly help cull the weaker T3-stuff.>Or impact hits, since they're fat bastards!I don't really like that one as I kinda feel Impact Hits is more of a Khorne thing. I'd rather give them stomp to represent the nurglites throwing their bulk around.>>93442100Always neat stuff from you, homeslice!>>93442421That does sound like a fun thing. Certainly sounds like a devious daemon blade that hungers from blood.
>>93443468>WS nerf for Nurgle is that it's both a improvement to their durability aswell as their chance to land a blow.Fair! I don't know how much it adds though, the to-hit chart is quite flat compared to to-wound.>stompI'd take that! It didn't come to mind when I was thinking of stuff. Seems quite fitting :)
You know what I want from the chaos AJ that they will never ever in a million years get? A "make your own demon weapon" system in the style of dwarf runes. Where you combine stuff like "what god is the demon for" "how was the demon bound" and so on to get a bunch of different weapons with a high risk/reward theme to them
>>93442753Thats not me retard other people can have opnions too
>>93443537I'd like proper rules for daemonic mounts, like discs of tzeentch, palanquins of nurgle, steeds of slaanesh and juggernauts of khorne.
>>93443215What are broken? Does it have anything to do with the big tiddy anime cow woman?
>>93443658*broo I mean
>>93443505>I don't know how much it adds though, the to-hit chart is quite flat compared to to-wound.With Warriors, Knights and Chosen at WS5 a -1 to WS is really useful against the WS3-crowd. It's in that pleasant sweetspot of being situationally quite useful but in no way overbearing.
>>93443591That seems like a given inclusion in a mono-list.>>93443537>make your own demon weaponPersonally I'd much rather have a "make your own daemonic mount".
>>93443669They're basically >what if beastmen were coolerhttps://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Broos
>>93438264Too low>>93443215Where is the line between beastman and mutants? It seems pretty blur
>>93437078I would definitely belive that TOW box set launches outsell AoS ones by a lot since people are waiting on them and basically have been for years, but I very much doubt TOW outsells AoS in total volume.
>>93443219I'm just talking about basic functionality. It's much easier to learn a system if your starting army isn't actively working against you.
>>93443799A huge amount of TOW is online order only resin/metal stuff that only comes directly from GW and that's the cool old sculpts people want and which are always sold out. It's possible that TOW is beating out AOS in direct online sales because of that.
>>93443782>Where is the line between beastman and mutants?beastmen breed true, their child will have their characteristics mutants don't, their child might be a mutant too, but a completely different kindand while it's not a hard rule, more often than not beastmen are born that way while a man mutates over time
>>93443219On the flip side the game's balance is all over the place (like pretty much every GW offering) so there are definitely some things that are just straight up shit that will virtually never achieve anything apart from helping your opponent win even in completely casual play, and the current Skaven are definitely sitting uncomfortably close to that region. As a whole the army is fine in most casual play situations but it has a bunch of extremely stupid stuff going on that will make playing them extremely miserable unless you're aware of what to avoid.
>>93443782>Where is the line between beastman and mutants?There isn't one other than: >GW sells beastmen minis but not mutants
>>93443782>Where is the line between beastman and mutants? It seems pretty blurBeastmen are somewhat consistent while a mutant can be anything between a guy with an extra thumb and a chaos spawn
>>93443738>Personally I'd much rather have a "make your own daemonic mount".That would be sick too, but thats an unprecedented pipe dream, at least item customization is something theyve done before. Sorta tempted to make some mockups of either system now.
>>93443819>if your starting army isn't actively working against youYeah and it won't be. They all conform to the rules of the game. They all teach you movement, maybe shooting, combat, leadership, the basic statline, universal special rules, deployment and so on. This is true no matter which you pick.
>>93443889>it has a bunch of extremely stupid stuff going on that will make playing them extremely miserable unless you're aware of what to avoidCan you be more specific?
>>93436860These Empire minis look so fucking good, who makes them?
>this banner won't quite fit on the base.>let's see how GW solved thislol
>>93443968Warp Lightning Cannons stand out. They have random strength, random range, all to do 1 wound. Not only are they terrible, they don't even do what they're supposed to do poorly, they just don't function. Stormvermin are another example. They're your elite heavy infantry but they can't fight and they have halberds but don't want to use them. They're not good at their supposed job and teach you weird things like don't use the weapons your dudes came with. Beyond that, an army with bad characters, no cavalry, bad infantry, and bad monsters in TOW just means a bad time against even just a baseline competent list.
>>93444028Stormvermin are fine. 10ppm and they have Initiative 5 halberds.They're not elite infantry. They're core.
>>93444028Stormvermin were only ever "elite" by skaven standards. Hell, with a 4+ save and -1AP on their hand weapons theyre pretty decent.
Why can't I fucking take Crossbowmen nor Free Company Militia with my fucking Vampire Counts hmmmm?
>>93444073'cause you're not playing 6th edition
>>93443982eh
>>93444073Talk to your opponent about it. I think most players would be okay with you making your army worse for fluff reasons.
>>93444028Respectfully, your post is operating within a tournament-brained framework anon. All of what you've said is based on winning competitions with skaven, not just collecting them and playing them because you like them. >Warp Lightning Cannons...>have random strengthThe minimum of which is 2, but 68% of the time you're seeing 4+>random rangeAverage 24-32" which is fine. To get the minimum 8" you'd have to roll unbelievable odds. And it's not even about hitting something at the max range, it's about covering the area inbetween>all to do 1 woundTo literally every model in a straight line in that range, yes. Not 1 wound total, unless you're using it completely incorrectly.>Not only are they terribleMaybe they're not the best pick for the sweatiest tournament, otherwise they can't be described as 'terrible'>They don't even do what they're supposed to do poorlyI'm not sure you're understanding what it's supposed to do based on how you've judged its stats >they just don't functionThey have (pretty fun) rules which seem to work in the parameters of the game, so this is total hyperbole.>Stormvermin...>can't fightThey have rules for fighting>They have halberds but don't want to use themIf I give my models a legal weapon in the game I've always been able to use them. Although I know what you're getting at here, it's another tournament-first mindset >They're not good at their supposed job and teach you weird things like don't use the weapons your dudes came with.I don't think that's a major concern, it seems like a pretty niche problem and any player that sticks around long enough to know the rules isn't going to take that mindset into every unit they build. Certainly doesn't stop a new player from building some stormvermin to learn the game with either.Honestly I just wanted to address each point because if the new anon listened to this kind of talk he would never build the skaven army that could otherwise bring him months/years of enjoyment.
Can someone explain to me what exactly the Dogs of War are, both in game play and lore terms >pic unrelated
>>93443982Skeletons on 30mm bases when?
>>93444289>S4+>range 24-32"Anon thats abysmal for a 110pts cannon.>To literally every model in a straight line in that range, yesWhich will be functionally no better than conventional bouncing 90% of the time and worse the other 10">>93444289>otherwise they can't be described as 'terrible'Theyre the worst artillery piece in the game. Theyre awful.
>>93444310I've been dryfitting a bit with a 20 and it's not like it's impossible so them bruteforcing it like that on a 25 is a little amusing.
>>93444313>Theyre the worst artillery piece in the gameTo the tourneybrained mind who only has 1 way of appraising models, perhaps. That is, until the next tourneybrain comes along to declare another model even worster in the whole game of course.
>>93444289I understand why people like skaven now, that regiment looks kinda sickI'm still a chaos guy, but that's pretty cool. Might be fun to get some skaven for whenever I play 3rd ed.
>>93444339>To the tourneybrained mind who only has 1 way of appraising modelsAnon there isnt a way to weasel out of the fact that on top of being highly random (with the average result being subpar and the maximum possible still not being all that great, while the lowroll is absolute abysmal) they're expensive and restricted in force org. Theres no redeeming quality to the unit.
>>93444028>these things that cost less points aren't as good as things that cost more points!!!!!!!Filtered
>>93444313>Anon thats abysmal for a 110pts cannon.Anon it's meant for completely different circumstances comparing it to a cannon just because it has "cannon" in the name is peak smooth brain
>>93444363>Theres no redeeming quality to the unit.No hate here but it's clear you're so far in the competitive mindset that these models are 1 dimensional in purpose to you brother. You're talking on a level that has no meaning to a new player, hell even the average player, but your position gets presented like it'll be the norm across all games and it never is.
>>93444396What do you want to compare it to then? Bolt throwers half its cost that manage to have more tactical flexibility (being able to actually threaten monsters) and will function just as well?
>>93444359They're pretty cheap, or they were when I collected 2000pts a year or so back. Screaming bells and warp lightning cannons were going for like £20-30 on ebay.The unit is by a guy called Stahly from taleofpainters, underrated hobbyist imo
>>93444406>so far in the competetive mindsetNo, this is just the basic casual level overview of the rules. We are not discussing high level tournament meta, we are discussing the kind of obvious observation that any normal player instantly makes when seeing the unit.
>>93444396Anon look at his reply, there is no appeasing the tourneybrain lol. Your janky rat laser must threaten monsters or it's simply unusable.
>>93444363>no redeeming quality to the unitdid you enjoy painting it? that's always a redeeming quality for me
>is friendly>loves a drink>will always give you his best>values honest work>crafts beautiful things>refuses to not do things right>respects his elders>honors family and loyalty above all>low crime rate>turns himself in if he somehow commits a crimeLet's face it dwarfs have the perfect society
>>93444436>No, this is just the basic casual level overview of the rulesProving my point from my last post. It's really not but you think it is because it's all you know, and you discourage perfectly good people from the hobby because of it.
>>93444421Neither lol, it's functions completely differently to other generic artillery pieces. It hits every model in a line in its range automatically, it's far more effective against massed infantry than any other artillery piece in the game, and while it does less single target damage, it pierces monsters letting you hit multiple.
>>93444445>dwarfs have the perfect societyI fink we can make it betta
>>93444438>the warp lightning cannon cant do the job it fills in the skaven roster (heavy artillery) but thats fine because its cheapoh wait>>93444457>It hits every model in a line in its range automaticallySomething which will in fuinction be the same as the cannons bounce or the bolt throwers piercing shot (worse even, because it will often end up putting your own troops in the line of fire in a way the other artillery does not). Something you would know if you played the game. In the real world you do not have a big convenient line of infantry lined up all deep like for you to fire down the middle off. >It's far more effective against massed infantry than any other artillery piece in the gameExcept for stone throwers (including the very good plague claw it directly competes against in the skaven army book), organ guns, flame cannons and hellblaster volley guns.Against infantry and cav the WLC is a subpar cannon or bolt thrower, against everything else its a bad joke.
>>93444028I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Stormvermin suck. Compared to other factions they suck, 10ppm for that is just awful, they can't go toe to toe with actual elite infantry and I don't think they're even trade well with state troopers, let alone actually efficient shit like orcs or beastmen, which really is just a meme. They seem to basically just exist to counter I4 on the charge, fragile infantry, which is basically just greatswords, and that's not a niche that any army really needs. They also don't even have a role inside the Skaven roster, both clanrats and giant rats are more cost effective meatshields and if you want a damage dealer than you have weapons teams and whatnot. I think GW massively overvalued "elite" infantry with warband, then again it's not like they're seen the value of warband reflected on any other profile so fuck knows. Shame too because the 7th ed Stormvermin kit is absolute kino.
>>9343823640% Bardyard stock40% doe rape12% Cultists/witches boning them for powers 5% Natural born mutants from human parents2% Human rapes1% mutated later in life (maybe less)
>>93444445Other than the gender imbalance I agree. Though meeting is all the incels that keep dwarf society running smoothly.
>>93444445No.
>>93444529Always were
>>93444486>Something which will in fuinction be the same as the cannons bounce or the bolt throwers piercing shot (worse even...then don't try to use it as a cannon or a bolt thrower lmao jesus christ>...because it will often end up putting your own troops in the line of fire in a way the other artillery does not).Anon doesn't know skaven clearly. Or you could just, you know, not put your troops in front of it>In the real world you do not have a big convenient line of infantry lined up all deep like for you to fire down the middle offIf you use it wrong, sure. It's not a pay to win model that you can plop in your deployment zone and forget about anon, so it's probably not for you
>>93444529Reminder that the Bretonnians blame the empire and tilians for the skaven, siting "moneylenders" as part of it
>>93444545>If you use it wrongNTA but how do you use it right? You seem to know your stuff
>>93444529they changed the name from 'spear chukka' for a reason
>>93444563It's not the most optimised unit, I'll give the other anon that, so you can't just point and shoot with it. So your options are: >use it for fun, as more of a gamble that will be extra cool if it comes off>move it for a couple turns to get it into a good firing position>use your other units as bait to align a bunch of the enemy in front of it, either by baiting movement or locking them in combat>simply shoot through your own rats if it will hit enough enemy models because your opponent will never expect itRealistically it's probably a bit of all of the above. But definitely don't try and shoehorn it into the role of a cannon because unless you roll above average it's just not that
>>93444545>Nononono! Don't use it like a bolt thrower like it was intended!>Use it like a cannon so I can scream about how bad it is!Lol skavenfags
>>93437677>>9343765040k is not a successor to WHFB. Thats like saying Vanilla Coke is a successor to Coke because 'it came out after by the same company'.>>93437709>>93437807>40k better game than WHFBonly someone who's never played either game could say that. The last acceptable edition of 40k was 4th, and even then we had 7th ed WHFB which was superior. You go to 40k for the setting not the actual tt game which blows.
>>93444445That's not Ulthuan
>>93444545>then don't try to use it as a cannon or a bolt thrower lmao jesus christAnon, no amount of smug deflection will get around its objective iniquities. There is no use case for it where it outperforms regular cannons in the real world, it simply doesn't exist. Its an expensive and random downgrade that doesn't even do what the thing it poorly imitates is supposed to do AT ALL. >Anon doesn't know skaven clearly"its in character for skaven to teamkill so its fine"Kek. >Or you could just, you know, not put your troops in front of itWhich means leaving it exposed compared to other artillery and cluttering your own deployment (and gets harder and harder as you move beyond the one target you picked when you deployed and play a real game where units (including yours) move. >If you use it wrong, sure.Am I about to hear some very big brain take about how what youre meant to do with your random range artillery is put it midfield on your flank? That way when the opponent conveniently lines up to meet you you can fire all the way down the side of the whole army for massive damage! Please tell me thats the sort of stupid bullshit youre about to suggest. >It's not a pay to win modelNo artillery is pay to win in this edition lmfao. >you can plop in your deployment zone and forget about anon, so it's probably not for youOh yea, its real high skill expression unit with the way its performance is entirely based on RNG in a way no other artillery is. It takes a true king of games to make that unit work!Also make up your mind, am I a tourneyfag or a casual player who needs simple units? Because guess what, if the unit was good but just needed to be used properly, competetive players would be just fine with it
>>93444605If it weren't for the nice scenery and endless supply of twink bussy, Ulthan would be an unlivable shit hole.
>>93439970>>93441653Thanks bros!
>>93444588Some of these ideas seem a bit unlikely. What constitutes a good firing position? I did think maybe if you can get it onto a flank then it could be good but at that point surely it's so vulnerable to flankers? Alternatively you send an escort for it but then don't you risk rotating the entire battlefield and making the whole point of sending it up a flank pointless? And is it really worth shooting through my own units? Clanrats are actually kind of expensive and I don't think giant rats have the ability to anchor units for multiple turns. It's a shame because I really want to work out how to play Skaven, especially WLC, but I don't want to gimp myself and lose every game you know?
>>93444610>outperformsMan I've stopped trying with you. This is your fundamental issue and there is no getting past it for you. Enjoy minmaxing or comparing completely different types of warmachines and their armies' win rates to find out which armies are literally unplayable or whatever it is you people do. I hope you haven't put clan skryre anon off.
>>93444610>There is no use case for it where it outperforms regular cannons in the real world>square pegs CANT fit in round holes therefore round pegs are superior in every way
>>93443215>And opening town gates because beastmen are too retarded to figure out siege weaponsI feel like a few good minotaurs running at the gate hard enough can do the job well
>>93444588>>use it for fun, as more of a gamble that will be extra cool if it comes offThats cope and means nothing in terms of whats being discussed. "Just dont worry if its bad" isnt explaining how to use the unit properly (that everyone calling it bad just hasnt figured out). >>move it for a couple turns to get it into a good firing positionThats at least a proper answer. Its wrong (in the sense that this strategy of sending your expensive and slow artillery piece down the board in the hope of getting a good shot later is stupid and wouldnt work) but at least its an actual attempt to use the unit. >>use your other units as bait to align a bunch of the enemy in front of itIn which case it fires through the enemy, hitting both your skaven and them "depth-wise" and not doing all that much damage. You arent aligning the enemy flank-on with your WLC unless you are playing against your 12yo cousin. >>simply shoot through your own rats if it will hit enough enemy models because your opponent will never expect itAnon, thats stupid on many levels;Its the expected use for the WLC (this is the exact thing people are complaining about it being bad at).It performs badly in this role (for the reasons already explained)The opponent WILL expect it because its what the WLC does and your opponent knows you have a WLC. This isnt an assassin popping out of an unexpected unit, this is literally what that unit does. >But definitely don't try and shoehorn it into the role of a cannon because unless you roll above average it's just not thatIts not a cannon even if you roll the maximum.
The million dollar question: does the Empire's rank and file infantry make sense? Halberdiers and spearmen
>>93444304Dogs of War are Mercenaries regiments that mostly work in Tilea(warhammer Italy)in gameplay it just means it's a special unit that has some diffrent rules attached to it but can be used on really any faction(depending on the edition of the game)
>>93444629>Clanrats are actually kind of expensiveWhat a strange mindset.
>>93444646If the game only has round holes? Yes, square pegs fucking suck. If you want an example of the "its not a cannon proper and thats fine" thing you can look at 8th. Its random strength made it worse than a cannon for killing single targets (a cannons main purpose) but its ability to hit with a blast template allowed it to be very useful for dealing with infantry and cav in a way normal cannons werent. It had its own unique role and use case.In TOW it hits in a random length line and will 99% of the time end up doing the same as a cannonball bouncing through an enemy unit, except it will do so with random strength instead of S10 and will be a friendly fire hazard. And it also wont be able to do the single target removal nearly as well as the cannon proper, as a little cherry on top.
>>93444649If you built a shitty gate maybe.
>>93443215>And opening town gates because beastmen are too retarded to figure out siege weapons.Anon theyre full of monster people who can just kick the gate down.
>>93444667No. But GW can't into pikemen
>>93444629>I don't want to gimp myself and lose every game you know?Yeah absolutely, but I honestly don't think it'll get to that. Your post has demonstrated that you're already thinking about what your opponent might do and how you'd counter it, and you're brainstorming different ideas. Even if it takes you a few games to find out whether a) your wlc keeps dying on the flank in the first place and if so, b) what works best to protect it, that's part of the fun imo. Much more interesting than buying the current best netlist and then showing up to watch it win for you. Personally I'd put clanrats in front of it, wide and shallow, so that if I have to fire through them at oncoming flankers then I'm only hitting 2 or 3 of my own. And then once the wlc is in position, that unit of clanrats can do some flanking of their own.And yes I was assuming we were talking about it going on a flank btw, sorry I didn't say that explicitly. It's probably going to move up with the rest of the army for a couple of turns and then start firing across the length of the table into the enemy's battle line. That way it probably spends the same amount of turns 'out of action' at the start of the game as if it sat in the deployment zone, but by the middle of the game it's positioned to hit far more of the enemy turn after turn.
>>93444693except that one DoW model which we don't talk about
>>93444649>>93444691You know a city gate isn't just like a door you can kick down right?
>>93444661>Its not a cannonTook you long enough!
>>93444667The Empire is 90% forest so they can't feed their people. The sooner the soldiers the the better.
>>93444706You know a single minotaur is a literal ton of beef and hate right?
>>93444703Memory holed harder than Pygmies
>>934446776ppm once you've given them a spear and shield is kind of dear yeah, that's state trooper price
>>93444706There is a big difference from a CITY gate and a village palisade gateBeastmen almost exclusively target hamlets and villages, most unwalled
>>93444721Yes. That's why, traditionally, cows were used to knock down castle gates.
>>93444746don't be silly, anon. Cows don't have hate!
>>93444746You are being a redditor "well acshully" faggot. A minotaur is an ogre sized monster, and when a group of them given even the most basic bludgens or even a log, could easily work down a village gate like nothing
A strange idea came to me hereDoes it make sense to give the Doppelzoldner sergeant a sword with +1 strength and a magic shield?5 WS, 2 attacks. A kind of mini-character
>>93444706You know that a giant doesent care right? Or even just a couple of minotaurs and a tree they ripped out of the ground.
>>93444707No, its an objectively worse piece of shit.
>>93443215>chaos cults devoted to minor beastmen gods that fuck beast men and animals and shit and are responsible for boosting beastman population>tfw in the empire you don't have to worry about roasties>bad new is you have to worry if that cute village girl fucks goatsFuck it I'll paint myself green and join the orcs at this point
I feel like turning Primairs marines into chaos warriors. has anyone tried doing this before?
>>93444685>I am incapable of seeing square holes ergo the game only has round holes
>>93444816Go on anon, maybe this time you will finally be able to identify what supposed square holes the game has. Provide the situation where the WLC is good/does better than a cannon.
>>93444745>Beastmen almost exclusively target hamlets and villages, most unwalledYeah that's what I'm n talking about. Beastmen become more threatening if they can actually endanger major population centers. >>93444769>village gateI'm not talking about villages.
>>93444836everyone else was you clown.Beastmen don't threaten cosmopolitan settings until an everchosen or a super powerful beastlord gets them up and going. Its the core fo the beastmen appeal that they are the monsters of the wood that prey on isolated villages
>>93444842Lol go be a cuck somewhere else.I said: >beastmen can't into sieges To have multiple people be like: >They siege wooden palisades and wall-less villages just fine!You can agree with me without being a cocklicker.
>>93444706the fuck it isnt
Do you get bored playing your army? have you tried making another one?
>>93444971play an army you love and you'll never be bored a day in your life
>>93444971I 3dp. I make armies, paint them and then play them. If I want a new army I try to sell the one I have at a stupidly high price (because I am kinda proud of my work as shit as it is) and if it sells I justifiy getting a new armyIf it doesn't sell it looks awesome on the display case until I get the mood to play them again
>>93444971Nah, even playing a legacy army (ogres) there’s enough tools in this game that I can tailor my list an innumerable number of ways I suppose I might get bored of running headfirst at the enemy but I’m not going to play a faggot bunker army
>>93444842>this man has never read even a little bit of beastmen lore before
>>93444971I've started a second and third army before this one is even done.
>>93445041literally everything in the army book talks about them hitting up villages and hamlets.
>>93444706You know what giant monsters >>93444713are right?
>>93444971>Do you get bored playing your army?No, not really.
>>93444971Anon, dearest anon, I get bored of _planning_ my army lmao. Yes I've collected a few. It's actually worked out quite well for me, because there's always something in my backlog I'm excited to paint now and I feel absolutely zero fomo because I've got 5 armies in various stages of completion and a hard drive full of STLs that covers nearly all WHFB armies.
>>93445060Cannon fodder?
>>93445052Gorthor sacked almost the entirety hochland and ostland, successfully breaking through the defenses of a well prepared and fortified Hergig after only 22 days of siege.
>>93444808Yes xister it looks so cute! Makes my feel gender eurphoric as well. Im trans by the way!
>>93445106>Gorthor sacked almost the entirety hochland and ostland,A fearsome beast
>>93444808I've seen sigmarines made into chaos warriors. But not primas. Sounds like a lot of conversion work to remove all the techie bits.
>>93445106ostland and hochland are litterally the backwoods of the empirethey have 1 major city between the two of them: Wolfenburg
>>93445172>what is Hergig
>>93445184a few buildings and shop
>>93443940>but thats an unprecedented pipe dream, at least item customization is something theyve done before.It wouldn't have to be anything more than optional mount upgrades that are locked behind marks. Just like the Manticore can take a Venomous Tail you could give the DM the a couple of upgrades and sidegrades per mark aswell as a budget you can't spend over. As an example a DM of Nurgle could choose to spend up to 75 points on the following:>Massive Bulk (30 points): +1 to T but - 1 to Movement.>Rotted Fangs (15 points): The Mount gains Poisoned Attacks.>Buzzing Wings (40 points): Fly (9).>Slithering Tentacles (20 points): The Mount gains D6 S4 attacks.>Host of Flies (45 points): Enemies suffer -1 to hit.
>>93445217Yea, thats still a lot beyond what theyve done with mounts (or most units) to date. It would be cool (not as cool as it could be, but cool) but I just dont see it happening.
>>93445184>>93445106Those were literally because of the condition: Super beastlord.Most of the time its villiages
>order 20mm regular and slottas from same store>the slottas are much shorter than the regularYou had one job.
>>93444304dogs of war are mercenaries the not!italy of the warhammer world has developed a rich culture where armies are mainly composed of mercenary troops, either local or coming from all corners of the worlda dogs of war army may field together dwarfs and goblins, an elven dragon and norscan marauders, arabyan light cavalry and piratessuch an army it's unlikely to be the master of any particular aspect of war, but it's going to be able to do potentially anything, look cool, give you plenty of opportunities to pour love into single regiments each with their own little backgroundit was made both as an attempt to have an armybook that may represent any other human nation that isn't the empire and bretonnia, with estalia and tiles in particular, and both as a way to create a range of mercenaries that the other normal armies could field alongside their collections
>>93444823But a cannon is absolutely worthless! It doesn't even fly.
>>93442082I really like that champion with two swords.I'm almost done with my regiment of khorne-marked chaos warriors. Just got highlights & blood left to do, as well as the standard bearer, which I'm doing separately as he will have a custom banner.
>>93445635So bloody.So siiiiick
>>93445635Bloody (ha) nice unit so far anon and looking forward to the banner!
>>93445635I like how they are all drenched in blood to varying degrees. Helps sell them as individuals rather than just an entity consisting of parts.
Can you take dawnstone on a hero and still use your monster mounts armour save or do you use one for both kinds of save?
>>93445279He broke down the gates with razor gorsYou don't need to be a super powerful beastlord just to tell mutant pigs to smash a door
NEW THREAD >>93446082>>93446082>>93446082
>>93446089I guess every single GW thread needs some kind of shitposter throoder
>>93444545I never get the mentality behind posts like these. Why would you just say blatantly untrue things and be a smarmy little shit about it? I never got why there's this weird pressure to trick new or unsuspecting players into building dogshit lists. Is it just crabs in bucket syndrome? Do they just want free wins? It's such a weird wargame grognard behavior.
>>93444445>>is friendlyDwarfs aren't friendly unless you're a manlet
