Next edition>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<<Previous thread: >>93624185/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3/3eg/ (D&D 3.X) link repository: https://pastebin.com/VMRsxB2m/pacgg/ (pathfinder adventure card game) link repository:https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_games_considered_the_bestThe T̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ Vault (seed, please!): bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4MdTQ: What is your theoretical third edition like? Does anything get carried over? Will it usher a new era of roleplaying games?
>>93662897TQ, I know not my theoretical third edition will be like but going my Paizo's trends with 1e being DnD 3.5 inspired and 2e being 4e inspired, it would make sense for 3e to be 5e inspired.
I make pf2e characterWould you go on an adventure with him?
>>93663246UNOPTIMIZED GARBAGE THROW IT IN THE PITS OF HELL WHER->himOh sure, he can come along
Are there any good Medium sized monsters from 1e that would be good for a gunpowder empire based around dragons and worship of dragons to use as an ally? In conjunction with regular elite soldiers preferably, between CR 8 and 13.
>>93662897>mfw reclassing from Inventor to FighterWhy is their Perception scaling so bad, bro?>TQRejigger DCs to not expect magical equipment/item bonuses. Magic items are cool but requiring them just to do the thing is stupid and makes them not magic items anymore, it just becomes a quality system. ABP 4 lyfe, and then you have rare/expensive weapons that do extra shit so they can be special and interesting. I think property runes are mostly fine as is, although I'd still re-do HP pools to not explicitly expect you have them. Feats that let you roll a check to maybe do a thing are out. Feats let you do a thing. None of this >make a lore check to put your pants and jacket on faster BS. You just put your pants on two legs at a time every time, just like the supernatural freak of nature that you are. Something has to be done about the Archetype/Class feat design overall but idk where to even start. Either the system needs to be less siloed and options opened up more or they need to make a hard dileneation between neat fluff feats and shit that your class requires to function a certain way. Why are so many spells bad?
I'll be playing in a 2e group soon and reading through the rulebook, I realized there's no alignment. I feel like a lot of things break or leave a big gap without it, especially related to outsiders and the planes. Do people homebrew it in themselves or is there a functional replacement besides holy/unholy? I've been pretty open minded with the changes in 2e but this is probably my biggest disappointment, along with the weird way it handles attributes.
>>93664513What exactly do you feel you're losing from the removal of alignment? Aside from the stuff that broke slightly when it was taken out (e.g. Hellknight) the Holy/Unholy rules are essentially the same as the old ones.
>>93664513They only just removed them during the 2e remaster this year. Go look at the legacy 2e content if you want them.
I'm going to kill a feat designer why doesn't monk get this as a class feat>>93662897>What is your theoretical third edition like?Fewer goddamm worthless feats and less of a vertical ivory tower hell climb, abp default, monk stops getting cucked
>>93664513The game didn't really break when alignment was removed. Holy/Unholy has replaced it where needed for all intents and purposes, and nothing's stopping you from just roleplaying whatever alignment you want.
>>93664513Alignment was what was broken and is what broke so many things and created so many problems. It existed only because it was inherited under the OGL.You have so many poisonous notions you must cleanse from within yourself before you are worthy of escaping that containment ghetto.
>>93664513retard
>>93664677>>93664765Holy Unholy does not properly replace alignment Prescribing either term to creatures like fey would be absurd
>>93664822Describing fey with terms like good and evil is absurd
>>93664822Holy/Unholy replaces alignment mechanically where it mattered (cure/harm spells, champions, etc.). When it comes to religious and similar purposes, it was replaced by edict and anathema. Everywhere else you can just roleplay it, you fucking autist.
>>93664822Well, Paizo doesn't agree.
>>93664602>>93664677>>93664765>>93664771If you're just playing games on the prime material plane, I can see why you would think this way, but my longest running campaign was a planescape PF conversion and not only was the axis between good/evil and law/chaos essential, it was fun. I know golarion has its own cosmology but it has all the same basic outer planes despite lacking the transitive ones like gehenna or the hybrid elemental planes, so I'm just wondering how it reconciles that without alignment. You may say that the alignment system is stupid and broken, but if these things that depended on it still exist, then was it so irrelevant? They now only exist on the prior merit of the system without the actual basis they required.
>>93664870Paizo is run by communists and haven't written a good thing in almost a decade Declaring a fey as holy is facially absurd and a complete ruination of the concept of fey and the first world versus Elysium Fey are not comparable to angels in any way. Limiting yourself to a singular axis of holy/unholy ruins that
>>93664886go back to wherever you crawled out from retard
>erase law/chaos and start calling random things just holy or unholy in a generic senseThe company that made a game that only got the time of day because people didn't like 4e really did just turn around and crib design notes from 4e
>>93664886Now planes are handled by inter/intrapantheon politics and the Holy/Unholy trait. The Law/Chaos/Good/Evil axis was only ever an abstraction of that desu. Although unless your group is a bunch of annoying nihilists (and I have had to suffer through playing with one of those) then nothing stops you from deciding that one set of gods has mortals' best interests at heart and running with that.
>>93664911So this is the best argument you can come up with? lol, lmao even
>>93664929So they just tilted the alignment chart diagonally and removed law and chaos, calling everything in the upper half holy and everything else unholy, essentially? I have to wonder why they changed it in the first place then.
>>93664870Holy and unholy aren't literal, dipshit. It's not a weird deer with a halo. They're used to broadly label creatures in strong opposition. As in, a holy and an unholy creature, no matter their precise natures, are always going to be naturally in conflict with one another just by their base natures.>>93664886>but my longest running campaign was a planescape PF conversion and not only was the axis between good/evil and law/chaos essentialAgain, just roleplay it out. Nothing's stopping you from playing creatures strongly aligned to one axis or another. All the game did is remove the mechanical mess and overly restrictive nonsense of the alignment grid by creating one opposed axis that matters mechanically, limit faith-based characters along more finely tuned edict and anathema lines, and otherwise you can do what you want. There really is no problem unless you make it into one for yourself. Nothing that matters has changed.
>>93664952Because the OGL stuff spooked them. Simple as, really. Also a lot of Paizo writers are themselves the annoying nihilist so objective Good and Evil isn't something most of them can write around.
>>93664952Overly afraid of wotc lawyers, have you been asleep for the last 5 years or just playing 5e?
>>93664957That's a Holy Fey anon. Idk what you've got your panties in a twist over. I'm just posting the stat block.
>>93664952>I have to wonder why they changed it in the first place thenBecause a significant part of the remaster is a kneejerk reaction to WotC changing and then un-changing its license, so Paizo has been on a mission to file the serial numbers off and rebranding everything that vaguely overlaps with anything D&D. Which means alignment had to go. Which was a good time to turn it into a slightly less annoying system.
>>93664964And now we go from 9 concepts to create design space to just 2 concepts... That kinda sucks. >>93664970>>93664982I haven't been playing tabletop for 5 or 6 years now, my wife and I started having kids and on top of that I was doing crazy hours at work. I got a new job and the oldest is going to school now, so I have a lot of time on my hands now that I'm working so much less. I've been out of the loop for a long time. What was WOTC doing that made paizo so gun shy about OGL materials?
The "it's because wotc ogl" cope is always weird as if paizo wasn't completely retarded from the pf2e playtest onward
>>93665017>design spaceThere's infinite design space. Use your head. Holy and unholy are just rules terms, nothing's stopping you from not acknowledging they exist beyond basic functionality, and using the old alignment grid for everything else.
>>93665035Then this game has the same issue that I criticize 5e for, it's a lesser game that depends on player creativity and leg work to build it back up to the better position it had in a previous edition.
>>93665024Rebranding every single game element that is named the same or similar enough to its D&D equivalent is a pretty clear reaction to the OGL fiasco. What about it is a "cope", exactly?
>>93665017>And now we go from 9 concepts to create design space to just 2 concepts... That kinda sucksWas there anything in the old rules that did anything meaningful with them?
>>93665045>I, the DM, have to come up with the concepts on which my game world runs>the horrorJesus Christ, just run Abomination Vaults already.
>>93665035It's a lot of work to reintroduce alignment to a game that has completely deserted it. Class restrictions, deity and plane corrections, the interactions spells and magic items have, the features of monsters, and more I'm probably forgetting. It's a core design change that has a lot of far-reaching implications and would take much more work than just acknowledging it again.
>>93665047They started rebranding shit much earlierSee ancestries
>the one alignment fan in the world crying that it's gone
>>93665080I think that one stems more from Paizo being a tranny company that needs to remove yucky concepts like slavery or half-orcs, and yucky words like "race" from their diverse and inclusive system for soft boys.
>>93665085>he's never taken a step outside the prime material lmao mundy cope
>>93665087And the rules relating to that were . . . ?
>>93665098That's what I'm saying Their idiotic decisions have been for a while"Evil" is probably just too icky for them (like slavery in cheliax) so they just made it unholy
>>93665045The premaster books still work just fine and include alignment. Do you really think letting your monk pull a feat from PC2 while you read from Gamemastery Guide is really going to make all that much of a difference? This is why 3.pf is dead, you faggots barely read and can't decide what books you need at your table for yourself. But enjoy daddy Paizo telling you what you can or cant do
>>93665109Have you ever opened a monster manual?
>>93665232I've never run a d20 game, it's just what the other GMs in my group are running at the moment. I'm more of a Nechronica guy.
>>93665080I think it's really ironic that, for a system that tries so hard to avoid being racist as they see previous editions to be, it has some of the most in-depth and detailed mechanics of racial features and feats which create an even bigger divide between characters based on race. I guess libs were the real racists after all...
>>93665483Turns out players expect their choice of character race to be mechanically relevant, so you can't push your agenda of "everyone's totally equal, no injustices or natural advantages here!" beyond your special snowflake lore and flavor blurbs nobody reads, because they formed their understanding of what an orc or a dwarf is decades ago.
>>93665520I kind of miss your choice of race having more set/default features. Knowing that my party member is a dwarf but isn't guaranteed to have a resistance to magic, toxins, and so on unless he's taking that specific feat feels weird. Same thing with elf sleep resistance. All the extra features are nice but everything feels sort of like a mishmash blob of options which have muddled things.
>>93665726You get a little of that from the Heritage options (E.G. Strong-Blooded Dwarf for poison resistance) but Paizo seems very scared of offering stuff like that without a tradeoff. Of course most Heritages don't do anything, so it's not like I have much of a point I guess. See Badlands Orc which lets you Hustle longer but who the fuck cares because that shit actually determined by the lowest CON in the party.
>>93665483>friend and I pick up 2e rulebook as we're getting ready to join a mutual friend's campaign>tell him "every normie RPG since 2015 has black people as the default humans, just watch">calls me retarded and we start going through the rulebook once we meet up>get to human section >human art is black male/white femalelmao
>pf2eAre there any abilities that change the type of damage you deal? (i.e. change fire damage from a spell to cold damage)writing homebrew and i want some reference
>>93666497There's a psychic subclass that does exactly that with fire and cold.
Does the Tian Xia Character Guide have any new monk weapons?
>>93666497Inventor has the Variable Core feat at level 1, which lets you pick what type of elemental damage your Explode action does/what damage type you take on a critical fail for Overdrive and Unstable. This has some mild implications for Armor Inventor since they have different resists that they can pick from but otherwise that's all it does.
>no barbarian or sorcerer in the core rules Shit game.
>>93662987Given that 5e is basically 3/3.5e with all most of the fat trimmed off(including much of the juicy, delicious fat that made it appetizing) a PF3e made in a similar vein to 5e would basically be PF1e but with some of the fat trimmed.
Does PF2e still have extreme levels of canon degeneracy here and there?
>>93666680Can you post something other than this mask and that birthing bitch?
>>93664822Fey never interacted with alignment well, at best they tended towards Chaotic but A. that was never a set in stone rule and B. that meant they interacted with the nearly pointless mess that was mechanics surrounding the Lawful/Chaos divide
>>93666680>Lamashtu-aligned item is weirdly sexual, creepy, and features sex with animals for the purposes of procreationThis is a good thing. If anything, PF2 doesn't have enough extremely degenerate items. And how could it, they sanitized most of their setting. I miss when things had some bite, even if it was a disgusting, ovulation sniffing, bestiality celebrating sort of bite.
>>93666692>birthing bitchWhat's that?Got a link?I really like when a setting has that kind of explicit edginess buried here and there.It gives the setting a level of grittiness if you want to evoke that.
>>93666726Drakainia, a mythic PF1 monster that's a disgusting pregnant birthing blob with a somewhat sexy melted woman torso on top. People sexualize it, apparently. Maybe it's because it rips off Xenomorphs by impregnating anyone with an orifice who's unfortunate enough to stray into its melee range.
>>93666680
>>93666680>>93666725I legitimately completely agree, they should bring back the horrific mutation birth monster
>>93664822The explicit point of moving to Holy - Unholy was to get rid of alignment by simply dividing targeting according to a minimalist binary. Who's opposed to whom, rather than trying to force an arbitrary definition space to be used as an abstraction for what cannot, ultimately, be so deconstructed. It's ironic in a way, perhaps, that Holy - Unholy abdicates a deeper analysis of moral concepts, but it ends up being a superior treatment for the purpose of game mechanics.Remember that, mechanically, alignment was only a selector mask used by paladins and the "Protection From Alignment" / "Smite" spells. It's easier to just say that paladins smite undead and demons, since that's what it really boils down to. The whole notion that anyone gives a fuck about whether Aeons hate Proteans is so laughable. You don't need an entire failed framework trying to abstract and systematize a concept that cannot ultimately be abstracted or systematized just for the sake of Paladins.And I would argue they didn't go far enough, because the Holy - Unholy dichotomy is still a flaccid nod to the old failed alignment framework, which gives the mouth breathers a crevice to cling to, perpetuating the entire problem.
>>93666725With how much you fags repost those two I assume there's nothing else like that in 1e.
>>93666725>This is a good thing. If anythingIt absolutely is, it gives the system/setting some spice.>And how could it, they sanitized most of their settingThey did?>>93666750>>93666763>DrakainiaAh, that thing. I'm pretty sure I've seen that image before but I had no idea what it was about.Cool shit.>>93666755Don't get hard anon.
>>93666778it's only those two things and the troon god Folca
>>93666765Also it was a pain in the fucking ass to be a cleric of a Lawful Neutral, Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral god in PF2e.A ton of pre-remaster divine spells did alignment damaged that keyed off of your deity's alignment. Follow a CN god? Fuck you, your divine lances only do damage against fucking Lawful creatures, hope you're fighting nothing but Devils because almost everything else in the game is either neutral or chaotic.Oh and if your deity is True Neutral? You get hyper fucked and legitimately cannot use a bunch of pre-remaster spells.
>>93666680any other notorious examples? We've already seen everything from Lamashtu
>>93666778Is it really a demonic deity of horror and evil if it is never involved with anything horrific or evil?How - precisely - do you think a deity of evil and monsters is supposed to be depicted? Be specific.
>>93666795What's Folca's deal? They've been scrubbed from the wiki and apparently officially decanonized for the most part it seems
>>93666795>troon god FolcaTell us more.
>>93666778They're easy examples to point to devoid of context, but the lore used to be a lot more raw overall. Some of the demonic or evil deific obediences are pretty explicit as well.
>>93666834>>93666830It's the god of child abuse, basically. Your traumatize or kidnap a child to induct or sacrifice into the cult of Folca, using candy or something else to lure them.
>>93666848Then post those sometimes.Those two have been posted so many times I assume either it's the only thing 1e has, or it's your personal fetish.
Is the eugenics dragon still at thing?
>>93666868>god of child abuseI can see why they would scrub him.
>>93666868>>>93666778Anon beat me to it but basically it's Pre-Redeemed Nocticula but for children, you get spells for worshipping him, including:> Unnatural lust> Modify Memory> Veil
>>93666893Yeah, I usually don't have any problem with edgy, grimdark stuff but Folca was introduced in a book meant for player character customization, there was nothing really for world building or presenting Folca cultists as an enemy of some kind. It was all for player character customization, and giving you bonuses based on traumatizing children, kidnapping them, raping them, whatever. If somebody showed up to my table and tried to roleplay their character with these options which were presented in the book, I would immediately kick them out and would be sorely tempted to kick their asses.
>>93666924But I thought you were running an LGBTQIA2+ friendly table, anon
>>93666868Damn 1e players are kid diddlers?
>>93666944Sorry anon, I'm a parent and got to think about more than myself, 3% of the populace doing 40% of that one type of crime and all that. Gotta protect those who can't protect themselves.
>>93666868Remember when orcs and goblins were bad guys? And then people started using them as a player character race until they were basically just Africanized humans?And then suddenly they realized what had happened so instead of making orcs and goblins bad guy monsters again, they started forbidding use of the word "race". It turns out their normalization / anthropomorphization of monstrous creatures backfired as they accidentally realized they had made the mildly racist trope WAY more racist by relating it to real world race relations.How long until there are no more monsters of any kind at all?Conflict is not allowed, there are no bad guys, in fact, nothing bad ever happens anywhere in the setting - it's a game about the drama of going to the café to have a sandwich.
>>93666924>It was all for player character customization, and giving you bonuses based on traumatizing children, kidnapping them, raping them, whateverWhat book is he from? It's kinda hard to believe someone unironically printed all that.
>>93666924>Folca was introduced in a book meant for player character customizationWait, what? Folca was introduced as part of a player supplement? This whole time I thought he was just some background element people got bent out of shape over but that's actually super weird.
>>93666974You're really annoying, dude.
>>93666848>demonic obediencesThose were fun. Featuring such wholesome activities as>torture of an intelligent being>ritualistic torture of an intelligent being>creative torture of an intelligent being>necrophilia>cannibalism>self-mutilation>floating in shit>irresponsible impregnation>cucking (technically "achieving sexual release alone or with a partner, while an intelligent creature sleeps unaware in the same room", but come on)>eating fistfuls of dirt>eating fistfuls of rotten meat>making random strangers cry
>>93666984No one is gonna force you to stop running Cats & Cafés games, anon. If you think that's fun, go do that.
>>93666978>>93666980Looks like the campaign setting book Horsemen of the Apcolypse exploring the plane of Abaddon, third in a series of books exploring the lower planes
>>93666988The one about cooming from air alone cracks me up
>>93666978>>93666980Inner Sea Gods is where he was mentioned first, then he got a section with player options in the Complete Book of the Damned IIRC
>>93667025My favorite is the one where you have to dissolve a human body part in acid every morning. It doesn't sound too bad, until you start thinking about the logistics of acquiring a fresh human body part every single day with your morning coffee.
>>93667046That's when you just cut off fingers from every thing you kill, and then cut those fingers into three pieces at the joints. You can dissolve one finger section per day, which means you have 28 days per pair of hands you take, or 48 if you count the toes (being cut into 2 sections each).
>>93667059Now that's being economical
>>93667046I think you can get away with casting Restore Corpse on the same dead dude for acid tub shenanigans
>>93666988>for today's obedience in this barricaded dungeon room, i will masturbate onto a page from leviticus. please remember my +4 bonus
>>93667097I always interpreted the order of actions outlined here as "jack off, then wipe your cum with a page of the holy book"
>>93666970It's pretend, you stupid nigga.
>>93667458Why are you pretending to be a pedophile?
>>93667472books are pop culture tho
>>93667474Well I can't exactly be one in real life, can I?
>>93667474>WhY aRe YoU pReTeNdInG tO mUrDeRSee how fucking stupid you sound?
>>93667474Have you seen Star Wars? You're responsible for the murder of billions of innocent people because you watched Alderaan be destroyed.
No wonder you fags can't find games
>>93667525I'm in three right now. Feel free talk about all the games you're in though.
So when 1e players talk about wanting edgy options, they just want to live their child rape fantasies?
>>93662897>What is your theoretical third edition like?All of the mechanics from every 3e/3.5 setting, pathfinder, multiple 3rd partied, and many d20 setting all thrown into a blender and refined into a comprehensive rulebook.
Hello, trying a solo campaign with PF2e for the first time, and I want to run a DEX focused Monk. Should I go for 14 STR/18 DEX/14 WIS if I want to dabble into ki spells, or 12 STR/18 DEX/16 WIS?
>>93667541Bro, you're the only one relishing it
>>93667561Why do you want child rape character options?
>>93667525I'm in two and I run three more...
>>93667571Why not just remove all options?
>>93667571Why do you want murder in your game, dipshit?
>>93667590Because 99.9% of them don't involve raping children.
>>93667654Why do you think I don't want to depict any particular evil thing in my campaign just because I don't want pedo characters?
I once made a Folca cultist NPC for the party to discover. They did, and they murdered him as I expected. I gave them 1 hero point each.
>>93667781So evil characters aren't allowed to exist at your table?How many beings have your characters murdered? How many times have they stolen or lied.... etc. etc. etc.
I like CatfolkAre Catfolk Rogues a fun combo?
>>93667847Ever heard of cat burglars?
>>93667847ye
>>93667980Why do so many obediences involve cooming? And from all corners of the alignment grid as well. You'd think the gods could find some middle ground there.
The fuck is going on in this thread?
>>93668134I mentioned Folca's existence and instead of people agreeing it's boons and mechanics should be relegated to NPCs that the players should 99% of the time Kill On Sight. Now everyone seems to be debating about Ancient Mythology vs Modern Religion (morality) and If GM's should allow a Folca cultist as a player character concept.
>>93664513Alignment requires universal morality and unidimensional characters, i.e., it's both childish and autistic.
>>93668173I glad you did. It might be the first time in months when we have a shitpost that isn't the same shit repeated every day ad nauseam.
>>93668173>I mentioned Folca's existenceBased>>93668173>it's boons and mechanics should be relegated to NPCs that the players should 99% of the time Kill On Sight.Regardless of feelings, design clearly intended one form of play over the other...
PF2EIs there an Endure Elements equivalent potion? I want to keep my friends toasty warm as an Alchemist
>>93667572Except Chiron was a colossal gigachad genius martial prodigy who went on to mentor legendary heroes. Satyrs and Centaurs were boisterous and lustful and passionate because of their connection to Dionysus, mistaking their bacchanalian revelry for low intelligence is the exact sort of fatal mistake that would get you killed as a lesson to not underestimate people in a Greek myth. Just because they're party animals doesn't mean they're stupid.
>9 days till official release >not a single Tian Xia character guide shared anywhere I guess Paizo is tightening up who this stuff gets shared with early.
1e.What is going to be my most effective choice for getting ahold of an actually usable animal companion while being able to to benefit from a high Cha score? Our party has next to 0 Charisma and I want an animal capable of contributing (specifically trying to avoid an eidolon/phantom).
Question for the PF1 guys who show up in the 3.5 thread sometimes wanting to talk about PF1 because it doesn't go anywhere here:>Are there enough of you to keep a less-narrow d20 system thread alive than the 3.5 one?>>93668831I can put together a thread template and put a new OP up and whatnot (I put together the PDFs for the 3.5 thread) and often make the 3.5 threads - but there's no point if there wouldn't be enough people interested on this Mongolian basket-weaving board to keep the thread up.Let me know if there's enough of you who would talk about stuff to make it worth the effort.
>>93669171Oracle probably.
>>93669108i mean the usual pirate copies aren't released until global release date anywayfew exceptions recently i think, but hey ho
>>93662897>sfgOut of curiosity, has anyone had luck playing as a Doshko specialist soldier?I was thinking of going powerhouse/blitz and then using thrown/returning as my ranged option.
>>93668426Backfire Mantle and throw bombs at them
>>93669255tried and failedi don't know why, maybe something to do with the fact that groggy retards have fuck all to talk about because they never played so instead blame it on 2e
>>93669108You do understand not jumping the gun keeps the pdfs coming in the future as well, right?
>there's a yo-yo itemOkay what class do I pick if I want to play a yo-yo warrior from Terraria?
>>93669387I think that only works as an improvised weapon?
>>93669171Oracle if infamous for exactly that but it's an inferior option because it's a spontaneous caster and uses the Cleric spell list. But I think Feyspeaker Druid also still gets Animal Companions and they use Charisma for casting. A far superior option compared to Oracle due to various specific spells that buff animals on the druid list.
>>93669407Yeah it's not classified as a weapon. not quite a yo-yo but there is a bladed diabolo which can be used in melee or thrown. advanced weapon though so you either need to play fighter or grab a feat from somewhere to use it with any amount of competency.
>>93669566Bladed Diablo is 2 hands, so mauler would work, no?
>>93669585Should do actually yeah. assuming you grab the strength for your 1d4 finesse weapon, but I guess you'd want athletics with that kind of thing anyway.
What are some Kitsune stereotypes? How would the average peasant NPC react to a Kitsune being outed?
>unarmed monks are better off having a shield in all casesThis is retarded.
>>93669790It's 20 years past time for you to accept that Monks will never not be retarded.
>>93669981Monks are retarded, but flavorful. Shield monks sound like cheap and autistic charop garbage.
>>93666802That's literally only because the devs had zero creativity when it came to the Law/Chaos divide compared to the Good/Evil one. Seriously, take the number of spells from 1e for instance and count how many unique spells had the [Good] or [Evil] descriptors and compare that to the number of spells with the [Chaotic] or [Law] descriptors and the disparity is plainly obvious, which is also evident in how Paizo absolutely LOVED making content featuring Outsiders from the outer 4 quadrants while leaving anything with a N in its alignment by the wayside outside of one-off fights, usually caused by a Thassilonian Wizard that bound one to a room with the orders to kill anyone that wasn't allowed in, which does NOT count.
>>93669996Minotaur monk with a fortress shield begs to differ
>>93669981Kung fu belongs in wuxia fantasy and has no place in sword-and-sorcery, agreed. But some users combine genres. For example, there's Iron Gods which combines sword-and-sorcery with sci-fi. Kung fu / wuxia fantasy is a genre more closely related to sword-and-sorcery than that.So basically it's a user error. When people mistakenly believe that punching things is or should be as effective as using weapons, they should be punished... by being forced to play their monk character.Or, in other words, it's ok that monks suck. They should be garbage. Just like swords are garbage when compared to plasma rifles and orbital bombardment platforms.
>>93670113Everybody in wuxia media has weapons, nobody goes barehanded against a sword unless they're trying to flex. The obsession with fighting unarmed is bizarre and I don't get where it comes from.
>>93669790Actually they're better off using scrolls.
>>93670336I don't care if Monks can use weapons or not, I care that they can wield shields with zero detriment to their performance as a strictly unarmed combatant. I'm okay with them being slightly more mechanically sub-optimal as a result if it means monks are disincentived from running into the fray with a tower shield in hand if they aren't explicitly specialized in that form of combat.>The obsession with fighting unarmed is bizarre and I don't get where it comes from.It's cool, and you can nitpick just as much eastern media that puts emphasis on bare-knuckled combat as ones without.
>>93670389Actually extend this criticism to Animal Barbarians too.
Shields aren't even good. They're one of the weakest 3rd actions in the game. They need a shitload of feat support like additional free shield blocks, reactive shield, and perma-raise in order to be remotely powerful. Any time you add a shield to your build you're actively gimping yourself to the point that you now need multiple feats to make up for it. You know how strong consumables are in this game? Free hands are broken.The only situation where a shield is good is if the enemies are attacking you like 3+ times before your next turn. Why would they attack the guy with his shield raised, especially if he was already tanky to begin with? It's insanely niche.
>>93670588>Shields aren't even good. Not the point.
>>93670336>The obsession with fighting unarmed is bizarre and I don't get where it comes from.MMAKarate KidStreet Fighter/Tekken/etcEvery fucking Kung Fu movie everDragon Ball and sequelsI can keep going but you're retarded and I've already wasted too much time replying to you. The captchas are too easy if you're able to solve them.
>>93669981my best mates big bro is downs, i can still find him cool and funny
>>93669171In addition to oracle and druid you can be a sylvan wildblooded sorcerer. With that, you have three different 9th level casters. You could also just be an inquisitor who uses wisdom for all relevant social skills. Or take Orator on an INT class like occultist (reliquarian).
>>93666974>And then people started using them as a player character race until they were basically just Africanized humans?No, I don't remember that. I don't think I know anybody who remembers that either. I don't think that happened, and if it did, it was only at your table.
>>93669171Sylvan Sorcerer
1eGoing to make an improvised weapon Gloomblade Fighter. Deciding if I should go Human or HalflingWith Human I get 3 feats at level 1 which means I have to chose either Catch Off Guard or Throw Anything so I can pick Improvisational Focus and Shikigami Style with the other 2With Halfling I can take the Resourceful racial trait to get both Catch Off Guard and Throw Anything but my damage dice will be one step lower because of small size and I can only start with a max 16 STR.Would you rather have the higher damage from Human or the ranged/melee flexibility from Halfling?
>>93670966Never played it or saw it at my table, but as I understand it you're basically a fully martial Magus that pulls shadow weapons out of thin air.In which case I would definitely choose Human, you're already giving up armor and shield training for Gate of Babylon: Plane of Shadow edition. Might as well commit to the idea of pulling out whatever weapon you want with whatever enhancement you need and getting tons of attacks.
>>93670966I'll second human. Your ranged throw is only 10 feet until you hit level 5 where you get +20 throw range. You can just wait until then to take Throw Anything.
pf2eSo I finally got my hands on the Tian Xia bookWhy does Martial Artist keep getting all of monk's toys, and even better shit on top?
>>93668426I think there are salamander and winter wolf elixirs for just enduring the weather. There is no simple elixir to resist fire, or acid, for example.
>>93671287Judging by the remaster, Paizo doesn’t want you to pick monk, even though the concept can be cool. Make sure to do your part in the share thread anon
>>93662897>TQ casters but good
>>93664898this but unironically
pf2eis it possible to make a build that can beat the CR 21 Grim reaper in a 1v1
Help dudes, I got invited to a 1e game and I am like, completely unsure what the fuck to play. I *at best* kinda wanna play a drow, but what class...?
Rate my automaton exemplar
>>93671733A Zero
>>93671699Sword Saint
>>93671585Depends what you mean by 1d1. Weirdly enough it's only teleportation is to another planet, or a 100 feet. So if you are a caster you can cheese it by all the usual "Nuke you from the other side of the planet" / "Familar interplanar delivery" stuff and for martials you pick up Far Shot / Starshot Arrow, wand of heroism and true strike and shoot it from as far as you can and hope you kill it before it reaches you.
>>93671795>Sword SaintWhy
>>93671843its cool and good
>>93671843Because I forgot that it was only in the video games, and now I can't find the tabletop rules.I just think the idea of a lightly armor elven spellblade attacking with a dozen dizzying spell-laden sword strikes sounds badass.
I feel like Pf2e would click with me instantly if I could see some good example builds to cut through the bloat. (Skill Feats, Ancestry Feats)Does anyone know a good place to see some builds? I'm coming from 5e, Lancer and PbtA so I think I'll follow builds decently.Also are archetype feats multiclassing mixed in with 'microclass' style choices?
Wuxia fag here. Does anyone have the Cultivator Archetype and the Magus Subclass that lets you fly around on swords?
>>93671975This board has a raging hateboner for reddit but genuinely googling "(insert build) reddit" is what I always use as a starting point to great effect.
>>93671975Did you even try searching "pf2e guide" before asking?
>>93671975Fellow newfag here, I saw a few class guides on RPGbot so I say check there first.
>>93671991I'm most of the way through one atm. I've never had a system click for me without seeing some builds though, doesn't hurt to ask>>93671987I gave this a bit of a go and struggled to find them for some classes (like Kineticist especially) but that's definitely what I'll do if there's no other option.
>>93671999RPGBot is a great resource but its important to remember most of their class guides are made on release an unedited (so no additional feats/subclasses/errata changes), so be sure to pair it with another guide for best effect.
>>93672004The problem with Kineticist in particular is A. its relatively new and B. it has a hard time working with archetypes/feat stealing because the way it works is very specific (its not spellcasting and its not ""striking""), so that's probably why. However, the good news is unlike a lot of classes it has very little trap feats/options, so honestly I'd just reccomend reading through it and making your own build!
>>93671999>>93672011RPGbot seems solid, thanks. I used it for 5e a ton but didn't know it had much Pf2e.>>93672021It does seem to have tons of really good things going on, I guess from other systems I'm expecting trap feats and the like. If it's mostly just as good as it appears on the tin then I'll probably just read through.Desert Wind and Steam Knight seem really fun and Rain Of Rust does not.
>>93671975The other posters are all giving good advice. I'll throw in this collection of guides as well; the quality of them varies but it's sorted by class and there's a bunch to choose from:http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2019/09/pathfinder-2nd-edition-guide-to-guides.html>Also are archetype feats multiclassing mixed in with 'microclass' style choices?You've got it. Archetypes essentially fill the role of multi/prestige-classing in other games. Pathfinder 2E has rolled a bunch of your class decisions under the umbrella of "class feats". You can use those class feats to unlock more class abilities as you level up. Alternately, you can choose any archetype feat you qualify for instead--the effect is that you're giving up a little bit of progression in your base class every time you do this by forgoing a class feat, but unlocking abilities from outside your class instead.Archetypes are essentially standardized feat chains. They all have a "starting" feat, called a Dedication, which is how you take the multiclass/archetype. This usually gives you the basics of whatever archetype you're interested in, and it qualifies you to take feats further down the chain. Archetypes also almost all have an additional line of text specifying that you can't take another dedication feat until you've invested at least two more feats into your current one. This just limits how easy it is to "dip"; it typically takes a total of three feats (the dedication itself, plus any two additional feats from that archetype) before you're eligible to multiclass again. If you decide to dig further into character builds you'll find a few ways to get around this rule.
>>93665726The ancestry feats are just a continuation from the alternate racial features of the PF1 APG and ARG. Most ancestries still have a clear theme in their feats.And it's also nice to use Adopted Ancestry to use bandaid feats like Unburdened Iron on a character that isn't a manlet.
If you're interested in Kineticist this might be worth a look, it's something I checked in on and had something similar to what I was going for. I think it's basically from when the class came out and hasn't been updated much but it does have a build and a concept for every combination of 2 elements plus a few options for more, each with a thought process they go through, it just focuses on the class stuff though, no archetypes, ancestries, but it is nice to take a look if you just want to see what different levels might look like.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gESN1JuhALW9WXllwbqBnVDEqdonessi/edit#heading=h.krq4ce3j51yaif you want more general stuff here's a repository of guides https://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2019/09/pathfinder-2nd-edition-guide-to-guides.html not all of these are necessarily current (a lot are likely pre-remaster or may not account for options added later and some are abandoned but there's a good amount of options. special mention to Gortles sorcerer spell guide, since Sorcs can get any type of magic it's basically just going over every spell in the game, so it's relevant for every caster from druids to magus, though it won't mention specific class synergies in all cases of course.
>>93672051Thanks anon, this seems like a great resource.That makes a lot more sense to me than the way the guide I'm viewing explained archetypes and clears up a lot of confusion I had, thanks boss.
>>93672079This guide seems fantastic, thanks.
>RPGbot is a good resourceDude misunderstands the value of so many feats it's not even funny. Who believes this? Get help.
>>93672093It's serviceable. It's not meant to be a hardcore char-op guide and is only helpful to new players.
>>93671975I've posted builds I've actually played in past threads. What are you interested in?
>>93670602It is the point. Shields suck. Who cares if the Monk can wear them? There's still.an opportunity cost - they're not using that hand for one of the way better items in this game. Take Cleric archetype and get access to a shield spell PLUS the full spell list, which you can leverage fully thanks to your ability to dual-wield scrolls without losing out on martial damage (a trait otherwise only shared by the summoner)
>>93672229>dual-wield scrolls without losing out on martial damageWait what? How much damage do papercuts do? Please explain what you mean.
>>93672250>hold scrolls in hands>kick enemies
>>93672148Probably a typical melee fighter and then a pretty generic prepared caster, just to understand what kind of non-obvious feats that are secretly important (Like medicine feats for instance) or ways to spend your turn other than just attacking because of MAP
>>93672079Speaking of Kineticist, is there anything good to pair it with other than Elemental Instinct Barbarian for a free archetype game? I'm not really seeing much else that offers much in the way of synergy.
>>93672271>pretty generic prepared casterHonestly I'd recommend Sorcerer. There's nothing inherently wrong with prepared casters, it's just that many of them aren't well designed, or focus on a single gimmick (Healing Font, Resentment Familiar), and are a lot easier to fuck up. You can easily make a suboptimal Sorcerer.But outside picking one of a couple bad bloodlines, and terrible spells (you can make the same 2 mistakes with any caster though), you have to try to make a BAD sorcerer. So if you don't mind, I'll share a Sorcerer build with you, and once you've gotten the hang of it, you might consider playing a Witch(Occult/Primal, Arcane if you can keep your familiar alive in melee) or Cleric (Divine).
>>93672271A lot of the things people invest into in this game are actually not that good. The community puts a lot of weight on third actions like intimidating, but the benefit is often very marginal given the amount of investment it takes. There are definitely situations where you want them, but they tend to be the same kinds of situations where you'd want, e.g., a save-or-die - which is to say, they're kind of rare and not worth focusing on.Just moving is usually the only third action you really need. Step away from the enemy so they have to step to attack you, move into range and attack twice, attack twice with a ranged weapon and stride into a better position, there's a lot you can do with just movement.
>>93672433Yeah that'd be good. Even having a basic understanding of the game now I get a bit lost with feats outside of obvious class ones, a sorcerer build would be cool.>>93672498That's fair enough then, it seems like super optimum action economy is mostly a kineticist thing (stance > overflow chains) and the odds of other classes succeeding on a third action are really low.
>>93672271When it comes to powerful melee fighter feats in pf2e, a lot of them either somehow cheat the action economy (e.g. being able to stride and strike in the same action) or MAP (e.g. double slice).One of my personal favorite feats for a 2 handed weapon fighter is slam down, which lets you strike and then trip with no MAP. The trip means the enemy either has to deal with the penalties of being prone or spend an action to get up, which also triggers attack of opportunity.
>>93672433So, right off the bat, we're going to want to choose a Background that boosts our Charisma and either Dexterity, Wisdom, or Constitution - our saves and defenses.Warrior is nice because it gives us Intimidating Glare, which we'd definitely take at level 2 anyway, and boosts to Constitution and Charisma.Field Medic gives us Battle Medicine, which is nice if you're not getting access to Heal or Soothe (Arcane gets neither). Your choice of Wisdom or Constitution along with Charisma.Finally, Magical Misfit is fun for using Arcane spells you wouldn't normally get through items. Dexterity and Charisma boosts, best for Divine and Occult.Choosing an ancestry really won't have a massive impact. You CAN take something with a Strength or Intelligence flaw that gives you three boosts: Gnomes, Grippli, Halflings, Shoony, or Skeletons. You can also play a Human and take a free General Feat or Adapted Cantrip. But this isn't going to make a massive difference. Ancestry optimization is mostly ability scores and class agnostic.>>93672498>wasting actions moving>instead of making the enemy waste actions>25% cumulative penalty attacking twiceLying to a new player? Are you really so desparate to sabotage this thread? Damn I bet no one played 1e with you when it was till a thing.>>93672537This is the correct way to attack twice. Fighter has a feat that lets you forgo the penalty. Certain classes have fury to diminish it. Fighters also get useful third actions, too, that don't incur penalties.>>93672523Talking about "investing" into Intimidate is silly, you have 11 skill feats that can only be spent on investing in skills, and most of these feats are pure flavor.You'll often want to Demoralize to weaken enemies' saving throws before you cast spells or your allies hit them.Intimidating Glare takes the language penalty out of Demoralize.Battle Cry lets you take a free action to Demoralize everyone when combat startsThat's 2 feats out of 11. Big deal
>>93672562The feats alone aren't sufficient, you also need the skill increases and decent charisma to pull it off.And if you really want to go all in on intimidating, you play a dragonblooded hobgoblin.
>>93672562Thanks anon, this makes it a lot easier to imagine how a class looks.
>>9367256225% of an attack is like 10 damage at level 20. And even if half of your party members fit in an attack against that enemy before their turn came around, we're talking like 10 extra damage from those attacks. 20 HP for 1 (successful) action is fine, but it doesn't stack with other status penalties. It's situational. Moving is a perfectly good substitute. I don't know why you think it's a waste.
Good thing this is about playing a Sorcerer, a class that boosts Charisma and Intimidate at every opportunity. I swear we can't go a single thread without fighterfag or 15percentfag LITERALLY AS I'M TYPING THIS YOU OUT YOURSELF trying to astroturf>>93672562You may also consider Bon Mot. It's a bigger penalty, but specifically to Will Saves.As for other skills to invest in, I'd recommend Acrobatics, Arcana, or Medicine. You should be at least trained in Diplomacy and Deception.Acrobatics will let you stand up without inviting an enemy to hit you (Kip Up) better aerial control if you cast Fly or your Ancestry eventually grants working wings (Aerobatics Mastery) and let you mitigate falling damage (Cat Fall)Arcana gives you the most spells if you choose Trick Magic Item, free Detect Magic at will (Arcane Sense), and eventually you can use it for every kind of magic (Unified Theory)There are nearly no bad Medicine feats. Being able to heal without spell slots is really nice.Also, consider Assurance for any skill where you're trying to beat target numbers, not enemeis' saves. Assurance on Intimidate is fucking worthless. Assurance on Arcana or Medicine is amazing.Now, for Bloodlines.Imperial - I'm skipping alphabetical order to shout this out as the best and only Arcane spellcaster worth considering. Here is your third action - you spend a focus point to cast Ancestral Memories and get +1 to hit/-1 to enemy saves for your next spell. If the enemy is already frightened or sickened, the +1 to hit stacks.At level 9, it becomes a +2/-2, At level 15, it becomes a +3/-3. If there's a Bard in the party, you can easily cast a heightened Blazing Bolt at +6 to hit, and a status bonus of +8 to damage on each bolt due to Dangerous Sorcery, your class feature that adds the spell rank to damage or healing.This is just an insanely good feature.
>>93672613Because of Agonizing Rebuke?
>>93672686Ignore him. This is 15percentfag, who will derail the entire thread arguing that a spell that misses 85% of the time against a single powerful enemy is worth taking.He wants you to make bad choices, hate the game, and go back to D&D/PF1 or something, because that's definitely how you'll handle resentment. Just spit on him.
>>93672684>>93672697Are you okay dudeI've never even played PF1. I'm in a small PF2 game with my online friends and I just like to share what I learn as I explore the game more. This is how I interact with games I play. You really don't need to try and give me a name or whatever, it's okay, I'm probably going to be gone soon enough. I don't really like this game's community and I get bored of generals easily anyways. You aren't the first crazy overattached schizo who's gotten mad at me for sharing my thoughts, and you won't be the last.
>>93672724maybe have some better thoughts to share then
>>93672684Damn that is a REALLY good feature.Thanks anon, having some skill feats to weigh others against is really helpful. I'm surprised how useful acrobatics is, seems especially useful if you're a heritage that picks up flying speed later.Appreciate it. Imperial subclass seems fantastic.
>people with more free time are the ones that rarely commit to game night despite claiming they're commiting the hardest to game nightwhy are people like this?
>>93672686That and Remorseless Lash.
>>93672760Seems like this combo only goes off if you manage to both demoralize and hit on the same turn, but then you can just keep hitting from there.
>tells everyone how wrong we are and how dumb we are for 3 threads>everyone tells him he's wrong>whatever I didn't lose it's math and the community who are wrongThis is sharing?>>93672684Aberrant's gimmick is that it has lots of touch spells, but the Blood Magic let you deliver them from 30ft away by turning your arms into tentacles. It's not the best Occult caster, but if that sounds fun to you, play it.Angelic doesn't give you anything you wouldn't get from any of the other Divine options, but it does make you slightly better. The Blood Magic doubles your Dangerous Sorcery bonus to healing, and you get +1 to saves when you use a Bloodline spell, but that +1 gets overwritten by better effects really fast.Demonic... Sin is in. This is the most versatile Divine Caster. Glutton's Jaws is a decent spell attack, but follow it with something that goes after saves, otherwise Multiple Attack Penalty kicks in.The spell list adds tons of interesting debuffing and blasting options Divine spellcasters don't normally get, and the nukes benefit from Dangerous Sorcery along with the heals. If that isn't enough, you get a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks, so you Intimidate AFTER casting to help your team. Very strongDiabolic is honestly much weaker. The blasting spells are worse than Demonic, the debuffs all have Incapactiation (anything more than 2 levels higher upgrades Failed saves to Successes and Successes to Crits) and other caveats, and the blood magic and effects are a bit of Fire damage, Fire Resistance, and Poison resistance? Weak and situational, I'd pass on this.Draconic - There's a lot to sort through here, the upshot is it does nothing better than other choices for the same spell tradition, but could do much worse. Good if you want something safe and Aberration/Demonic/Elemental/Imperial don't appeal to you.
>>93672772It gets even funnier if you also have Antagonize.
>>93672741The thing is that good thoughts are usually hard for people to swallow. If it's easy for you to accept, then it's probably a really simple thought. Simple thoughts are sometimes good but not usually.Fundamentally people usually go online to hear other people say things they already believe, and to demonize people who disagree. When you sign up for pf2e discourse, it's because you want to hear "+1 matters", "make sure to pick up electric arc," and "blasting isnt very strong" repeated over and over. You're not interested in real discourse. I've posted some really powerful stuff in these threads thst just gets ignores. People only want to argue about really stupid shit like incap spells and intimidate, not the fundamental imbalances in the economic assumptions laid out by the game guide and community which directly lead to the perceived weakness of casters due to a lack of scrolls and wands.
>>93672778I think these would make a lot more sense if I sat down and read the spells, so I think I'll go do that.Thanks for the writeup, this all feels a lot more manageable.
Did they make Will-o-wisps even more annoying in PF2? In PF1, they could still be affected by any spell with Spell Resistance: No.In PF2, they are immune against all spells except a handful, including some you only get at a point where you no longer will face them.
>>93672778Well to begin with the entire incap spell "debate" started because I wanted to prove a point to a newcomer about how shitty the community is, which I succeeded at doing with my well-chosen example about incap spells. You wanted to shit on me so badly that you've now turned me into a thread boogeyman with a name and everything, which, again, perfectly demonstrates what the community is like.
>>93672778Elemental used to have a meme about your options being Fire Elemental or Bludgeoning Elemental. I would strongly recommend you pick Fire or Metal. Your optimized options have doubled! The extra 1 damage per spell rank (Piercing for Metal, Fire for... uh, Fire) is nice but usually you'd rather get the +2 bonus to Intimidate Checks. As a Sorcerer, your turn is usually Demoralize>Cast, Blood Magic> Cast, Cast>Demoralize, Move>Cast, or Shield>Cast (if you REALLY are in deep shit)>>93672809Oh no problem, we covered all the best ones.General feats are mostly bad. You're going to take the following:Fleet, Toughness, Incredible Initiative, Canny Acumen (Fortitude), and your choice of Diehard or Ancestral Paragon.Sorry there isn't more freedom, Paizo made General Feats in the original Player's Guide and never revisited them, ever. Most of them are flavor and whimsy that didn't need to be feats.As for your class feats, I would look at your Bloodline Spells, Granted Spells, any Spells in your tradition that still do something on a successful save (including half damage), or don't require a save or attack roll at all and try to think about which feats help you do your favorite things better.Signature Spell is a spell that automatically heightens to your highest level. Use this on spells that have numerical benefits! It's better to relearn a spell that gains advantages when upcast at a specific level.
>>93672825You're just a recognizable and obnoxious faggot on an anonymous board, no need to get a big head over it.
>>93672858That's what he wanted. He came here to flex his e-peen and win internet points impressing us with his "discourse," "fundamental economics" and "real powerful stuff."When he got called out on failing at 4th grade math and threw a tantrum, he got the /amount/ of attention and notoriety he wanted... just of the negative variety, not positive.That corny pun about absolute values might not land, you need to get to 7th grade math to learn how those work.
>>93670605Except if you look at their abilities then you'll realize that the D&D Monk is based on none of these.
>>93672974D&D monk is based on the idea of "what if wuxia and kung-fu mysicism bullshit was real?" and a loosely associated hodgepodge of abilities and tropes, except hamstrung to fuck because he made the mistake of not being a caster in D&D.Having no real focus or base model, and instead a pile of largely not synergistic tropey concepts, and paying the D&D martial tax, is the legacy of ass Monk is still bearing like the proverbial cross.
4e Monk was based and so was pf2e Monk until it got left behind by all the other classes. It needs some quality of life improvement like a free stance at level 1 or an upgrade to FoB as a higher level feature. Im also sick of seeing Monks running around with shields so i say give them some sort of inbuilt Parry to unarmed attacks that buffs stances with it already to reach +2 AC. Lastly i think they could of split Monk into subclasses similar to Cleric where one is legendary AC and another is legendary unarmed.
I don't understand rest etiquette in these games>So here is the enemy's base, we have been lucky so we catch them by surprise>Two PCs blow their resources up with absolutely shit management so they want to rest after what? 2 rooms?...when enemies still surround us and now are aware of our presence>GM: "yeah sure why not, just go outside and rest">I think he's being sarcastic but no>We rest>Enter again in the enemy's base some how everything is like we left it before resting for like 8 hours. Enemies didn't change patterns, added reinforcemens, fleed, added traps or anything>The same two PCs again blow up their resources and want to rest>GM "sure">Ok this is stupid>Next day the same>Me: Ok we have explored another room, lets rest>GM "wait wait wait, you want to rest after exploring just one room?">Me: Yes, and then we explore another room and rest again that way we're always at 100% at the start of every combat>GM, pretty angry, tries to explain me how that is stupid, breaks the immersion, etc but fails to explain me why exploring 2 rooms and resting makes sense (like we have been doing the past 3 days). 1 room? bad, 2 rooms? yeah that makes all the sensePlease, can someone make it make sense? It's a module btw jade regent
>>93673216Gary Gygax had a saying for this.
>>93673275What was it? Sorry for the ignorance.
>>93673410Something among the lines "get rek, noob"
>>93671890>I forgot that it was only in the video gamesIsn't the video game version just Kensai Magus but without the japanese words?
>>93673410It's in the AD&D DMs guide. I have to extrapolate a point anyway, so my bad. In a single word: pressure. Your GM is not applying time pressure, and giving you a sense of urgency. This can be through tracking resources, to time limits on quests, and so on. Beware though, urgency can kill agency if too strict. Eitherway, your GM was too lax on this and got defensive when you called him out on the lack of pressure.
With how streamlined 2e is, does it have its own equivalent of 4e's "MM3 on a business card", i.e. the scaling basic math that tells you how your values stack up to monsters at your level?
>>93673667Gary's time keeping autism was more about his delusion of running multiple groups in a shared world which necessitates knowing where others are at a given timeTime pressure is the solution but it's also contrived, the ancient ruin that sat untouched for 50 years will not change if you take an 8 hour nap. It works much better for some dungeons than othersReally the solution is tie less resources to daily resets. If players can freely generate more spellslots of course they will. Alternatively cumulative bonuses for how long players trudge on without resting. It feels gamey but so does the 15 minute adventuring day
>>93673216If it makes you feel better modules don't make this easier either. They have big ass dungeons that are impossible to explore in one take but don't seem to have an obvious stopping point for rest neither mechanically nor narratively. For all the years I played PF and Wotc never ever felt like the resting points were organic/realistic in premade campaigns, they always pulled me out of the game experience for being too gamey
>>93672374Ostilli Host, Wrestler/Monk for wrestling feats, Blessed One and Beastmaster are evergreen.
>>93673216PF2E encounter design assumes you are at full health before encounters. If you don't have a healer (someone with the medicine skill and investment on its skill feats suffices for downtime but you REALLY should consider a dedicated healing like a cleric for combat healing or at the very least stabilizing) this is inevitable. The DM SHOULD have addressed that absence before the campaign started though. But at this point he might want to consider giving you wands of heal (or some magic item for healing outside of combat) or having someone retrain into something that can heal after each encounter.If this is because people are blowing their daily resources on a single combat then, if you are low level this is understandable, you don't have that many so 2-3 combats might be realistically the limit of what casters can do for level appropriate encounters in the first levels. If you are higher level or this aren't characters whose main schtick is daily resources then its the DM's fault for not having any sort of dynamic that at least incentivizes you to do more than the literal bare minimum to progress. Ultimately at low level there's simply no way to not be resting after very short bursts if your class depends on daily resources, the alternative is the party basically playing with a fraction of a man down and those players aren't going to have much fun either. As for the DM being annoyed by 1 room but not 2 its likely because the first might be a clear abuse while the second at least might be the natural result of the system design. Regardless its a universal problem in PF2E that pacing is very gamey because of the system construction. If you rush PCs between fights without full heals and harry them while they are spent you will kill them pretty trivially simply because the system is not designed for that.
>>93673792Honestly, for PF2e Focus Spells feel like a very nice solution to this particular problem. >fight ends >everyone patches up>Focus caster spends the 10-20min of downtime to get a couple points back in time for the next go-around You get a much more believable half hour of dicking around while everyone licks their wounds and such. But for whatever reason Paizo doesn't seem eager to mix Focus Points and spell slots so your casters basically have to be spending gold on scrolls.
>>93673792>Gary's time keeping autism was more about his delusion of running multiple groups in a shared worldIt wasn't more about anything. The level of verisimilitude Gygax encouraged also had groups track the time they spent playing 1:1, meaning whenever the PCs rested, the players also rested. In other words, that 15 minute adventuring day turns into a 15 minute game session. My first DM carried over this rule. I hated it. But as an answer to getting shit done, I find this to be quite a palpable answer - but you the player is the driving factor. I just think the player characters should be the driving factor of getting stuff done, with a carrot and stick from the DM.>Time pressure is the solution but it's also contrivedIt can be contrived, and you can also find better ways to weave the clock into the narrative. Having your world be alive, and responding to what the players do is the best way of achieving that. Your players can have a reasonable sense of wanting to get stuff done, given a time limit of 3-7 days to get what they need, move on to more important matters, etc. The monsters in the ruin could also discourage slow progress by resetting their progress in some way. Setting traps, and preparring ambushes is not a bad answer. Depends on the monsters. Ultimately, you need your players to care about getting stuff done. Otherwise, even if you give them less resources whenever they do rest, how far do you have to twist their arm when they simply go back to the inn and sleep for 1 month if it means getting it back? If they play it like a video game, where waiting a year has zero consequences, then you can't hope to challenge them.
>>93673216From my experience, APs with sprawling "alive" dungeons have to be adjusted by the GM to take less resources to clear. Example, I ran Rise of the Runelords in the past. The catacombs under the Glassworks is a simple dungeon that can be finished in 1 go, maybe one rest and return if they are unprepared for the boss. Thistlewood Keep is insane to try to assault in 1 day as is. I gave my players side quests in Sandpoint to weaken their defenses as well as reworked some of the areas to allow for RP rather than combat to "solve" some of the encounters. I get why that part of the AP has such a high TPK rate if you run it raw
>>93671699Well do you know what the others are playing? And what level you're starting at?
>>93662897>3rd edition looks likeAbsolutely nothing changes, they continue making boxed sets referencing the APs written for the ttrpg and the boxes continue to be the best way to play the APs
2eAre there any decent hexcrawly/exploration adventures or resources around?
>>93674612Just do kingmaker.Once you've run kingmaker at least past the initial few chapters you probably have enough experience to do a homebrew crawl adventure.Something to think about are micro hexcrawls with each hex being 10 minutes to traverse rather than 8 hours; maybe like 1200 ft across.A cursed battlefield or jungle temple complex or something.
Monastic Weapon should make handwrap runes copy to one held monk weapon, and all thrown shuriken. Shuriken shouldn't need a special stance to Flurry with.
>trying to plan out my FA Marshal feats>eyeing Back to Back>realize I haven't been flanked all campaign Hmmm. Maybe I just dip into Mauler a bit until Tactical Cadence comes up for grabs. FA is nice but it really does activate my autism trying to figure out what I want from where.
>>93672374it can be a struggle because you're not a caster, nor do you make strikes. you could still pick up some utility spellcasting if you wanted of course but it's not top priority. I'm pondering the same dilemma myself and these are some of the ones I've considered.If you want to be tanky or frontline oriented you could go like... champion for the reaction or bastion if you can get shield block somewhere (easiest on human).Wrestler is also nice if you go hard on athletics.Beastmaster is always good and with a mature companion you can use a mount that gives you a free movement every turn which you can take advantage of since kineticist is rarely lacking good things to use all of their actions on.Obviously there's the more out of combat focused archetypes, since kineticists are usually fairly lacking in skill options due to con main stat and mandatory investment in either str or dex for ac. there's a whole host of these and it depends on the skill in question, obviously there's rogue, which can get some skills and nimble dodge. something like herbalist can be thematic and you get nature for free. medic is always appreciated but you may lack actions for it in combat. shit like dandy, loremaster, etc is just nice to have. alchemist gives free consumables. overwatch is perhaps one of the most generic dedications and needs expert perception which you won't get til midgame but +2 initiative to the whole party is nice and most of the rest are fairly usable.Acrobat gives an autoscaling skill up to legendary and has a couple good ones in there.
>>93673216Your GM is insecure. That's why they're running an AP and getting defensive when you call out how dumb resting in an enemy's seat of power is.Sure, I used to be that novice. I ran Blood Lords, and I've blocked out any time I was anything but overly permissive with the players. Situations like this are an opportunity to man up, apologize for blowing up at you, tell you that wasn't how I should treat my friend, and learn some tricks for making the players feel organically and fairly punished for taking more naps than a Kindergartener.Like random encounter tables. Ever visit the solo RPG general? Holy shit man, I thought they were insane until I learned the power of random tables. You KNOW where the party is going to be and who is going to be there, you made the map and designed the encounters. So decide on some PL+1 to PL-1 random chuds that are going to be guarding the place, living there, coming and going. Knowing this makes your world feel real and lived-in in a way no AP is able to capture. Make a minimum of 3 such random encounters. When the players are yelling at each other about what to do next, clear your throat, roll d100 (2d10s with one demarcated as tens and the other ones fyi), and announce that their yelling is starting to draw unwanted attention. Decide the odds something shows up based on the volume and disrespect and roll.The players want to rest more than a 10-minute refocus in the dungeon? Ask what they're doing to fortify their position. If you get any funny looks, remind them that they're anything but safe here, this place is crawling with enemies that want to steal their souls and fill their holes, and good luck trying to get a brief nap. Decide % based off their plan and roll 4 times, every 2 hours.PCs are traveling overland on a long journey? Make it exciting! Have a map of the ship ready. Give them someone/something to care about on the caravan.If something happens, roll d4. 4 is a false alarm, but their rest still interrupted.
>>93674991I really enjoy it. The multiclassing system is one of my favorite changes about 2E and I like FA purely because it lets me interact with it more. Being able to do things like archetype out of a caster class without giving up your spell progression or out of a martial class without interrupting your BAB progression really lets you go all over the place (this was also possible in 1E, although it was more limited--1E multiclassing was literally halting your core class progression and starting another one at level 1, with some exceptions for prestige-style classes). I've got characters in two games at the moment. The higher-level character's currently got four different dedications. The lower-level character's just getting started but, unless I change my mind (and assuming the character survives), they'll end the campaign with five. Character options in a FA game are just super wide open.I also think that in games where FA is an option it gets really hard to avoid going human. The multitalented ancestry feat is just too good. Or maybe that's just reflective of me being addicted to multiclassing.
can you retards stop alignment shittering and chudposting and finally upload the tian xia player guide
>1eCan a whip user with Greater Whip Mastery pin someone with the whip?Can Telekinesis maintain a grapple more than once if you have Greater Grapple?
I'm running a Metal Kineticist with beastmaster and a metal elemental as my beast right now. It's fantastic. It almost feels broken. I don't have any math to back that up though, just how it feels to me.
>>93675611I think that's more of a symptom of a lot of race feats being kind of middling. You're basically trading a level 9 racial feat for access to an Archetype capstone or something and do you really want Battleforger or Tree Climber over a Dedication that might give you a small boost and also unlock a strong lategame feat? Although if you have Toughness then doubling down with Mountains Soutness is nice. Though honestly I usually pick my race and background before I start figuring out builds. Thats not swell for PF2e due to how stuff is balanced but I've never felt overly pressured to min-max my dude with my current party, and I'm more interested in roleplay and fluff than I am in being the strongest. The only painpoint is that fluff options in PF2e compete really hard with strong mechanical options so finding the balancing line between fluff and competence takes a lot of finagling.
>>93675816We've had multiple people say they were working on uploading it. They have to clean their shit first so John Paizo doesn't ass blast them from orbit.
>>93674669Isn't the whole place a cursed battlefield?
>>93675816I prefer CHOAMposting and bullying the lower right portion of the alignment chart.>LGToo busy enforcing the chart's hegemony to post about alignment. Law and Good are just suggestions without action behind them.>NGToo busy actually helping people to post about alignment. These are actual volunteers and professionals working pro-bono. At most, Ronald will make a video explaining the mechanical changes.>CGToo busy hiding from the feds to post about alignment. They may have a VPN and multiple SIM cards but that doesn't mean they want to waste them arguing about RPGs on a Sri Lankan Ayurveda Forum>LNToo busy being a cog in the machine at their 9-5 to take a shit on company time, let alone come here and post about alignment.>True NeutralMost whiners who miss alignment. Also, most people who don't care, and those who are glad it's gone. This is nearly everyone IRL.>CNMost fervently posting about alignment online, frequently LARPing as CG and not bothering to hide their power level given their insecurity about leading a nihilistic, meaningless consoomer life.>LEToo smart to potentially out themselves by having an internet argument about alignment. If not, they're either incredibly unsuccessful in life, or
>>93676239>NEPosting about alignment online and insisting it was a good thing while actively pretending that they would be other than NE. Their ability to sell the lie is inveresely proportionate to their insecurity.>CEUnlike the other 3 this one does not use a fictional rubric from a game rulebook in a feeble attempt to justify their lazy, self-centered, meaningless life. They thrive on conflict, and alignment threads are such an easy, effortless way to start an argument on the internet.>Conclusion: alignment is dumbAs you see, the more seriously you try to take it, the more the system devalues itself. Law has an ontological imperative to define itself; rules cease to exist if no one obeys. Good is apathetic, because being selfless and altruistic for recognition is selfish and self-defeating. Only Apathy, Chaos, and Evil unmitigated by Good and Law would waste time and effort pigeonholing everyone in such a ridiculous artifice.Maybe Holy/Unholy isn't the most elegant solution, sure. But alignment was stupid and we should be glad it's gone.
>>93675827Yes you can pin someone with Greater Whip Mastery. Alternatively, one level of Hangman vigilante would also allow you to use a whip for grappling.Telekinesis is limited to once per round and Greater Grapple wouldn't change that afaik>Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip.
>>93676355Good for the whip, lame for the Telekinesis.Does that mean the Brawler can use it to Neckbreak someone?What about the Neckbreaker feat?
>>93675866I think Human, Elven, and Aiuvaran/Half-Elven ancestry feats are every bit as bad, especially at 13th and 17th level.Like, if your game goes that long they might as well just not exist. Nephilim have some of the best options with innate spells and permanent wings, and how often do you see people shit on not getting permanent flight until level 17?The quality of Feat design is so wild. Think about how many classes are saved by some strong feat, or crippled because they have nothing but trash. Think about how little diversity there is in General Feats.Ancestry Feats and Skill Feats suffer from massive problems with Paizo not having any clue how to scale them for high level. A lot of the game falls apart around levels 10-12. Animal Companions, Summon spells, all the skills you took at level 1 that you'll never raise to Master becoming unreliable due to Intelligence not affecting the skill increase bottleneck, spells finally starting to do crazy things while others keep mental/death/emotion/incap tags, and Skill/Ancestry feats just not scaling.Why am I able to spend all my low rank spell slots on as many Fly spells as I want, but my Tengu/Nephilim/Sprite has to wait until level 17?Why is Demoralize better at inflicting Frightened 2 than Scare to Death?Your level 1 Ancient Elf has a free dedication. At level 17 they don't count toward the maximum targets teleported, and they prevent anyone with them from getting telefragged! Wow that's so amazing and relevant!So I partially agree. I think there's definitely heavy incentive to play a human or elf for a free Dedication + Cantrip/General Feat/Nimble Elf, or a half-elf to ignore the attribute requirements. But I don't think any of them are relevant enough that taking a 3boost1 flaw ancestry is going to punish you.Also I prefer Lizardmen and Grippli as PC races in my setting to Orcs and Goblins. It's much more interesting to think about how cold-blooded humanoid society developed than le green noble savage.
>>9367651Eh, just add good versatile ancestry to Human and be amazing at high level too.Also Tengu,Sprite and several other guys have permanent flgith from level 9 now.
>>93676513General feats are pretty bad. There's like four or five good ones in an ocean of trash. But the good ones are at least good. Incredible Initiative, Toughness, Fleet, Diehard, and potentially Canny Acumen/Shield Block/Ancestral Paragon will get you through the levels with no really wasted slots most of the time. But those are also the only feats worth taking.But skill feats are by far the worst. Most of them are completely worthless, while a handful are more or less mandatory if you want to use the skill at all, some skills don't even have full "chains", and there's a pretty good chance that around mid-level you'll go back to taking level 1 feats for skills you haven't even raised, because you just ran out of feats to take for your main skills, either because what's there is dogshit, or because there's just... nothing. I've built a bunch of characters up to level 20, and almost all of them had to pick random level 1 shit for their last couple skill feat slots. It's like they never sat down and actually thought about what their system would look like in practice
Are none of the repository links for PF2e working or do I need to do something arcane?
>>93676470You're talking about the Strangler archetype? Neckbreaker (strangler) would work just fine. As would Neckbreaker (feat) since it's in addition to your maintain action. If it was part of the maintain->damage it wouldn't work unless you found a way to use stunning fist with a whip since Greater Whip Mastery limits you to using your whip to damage.
Anoit ally into explosion of power should let me turn the melee into bombs so I don't have to stand in melee on a dang sorc, right?
>>93676722It does. It's a blood magic effect, and anoint ally allows you to transfer blood magic effects to your allies.
>>93676617General feats are weird. Due to a homebrew deal it might actually be worth it for my Fighter to take Weapon Profeciency three times because of just how little most of the other feats have to offer. The only real competition would be Adopted Ancestry so I could grab some racial feats from Human, notably Cooperative Nature and Heroic Presence.
>>93671979I gotchu desusorry for the shitty shopping, my pdf actually belongs to my buddy and I feel much more skeevey about giving this to scrubbers when it isn't my info they're looking at.
>>93671979>>93677200And cultivator
this mf dumbass GM just said that getting the +2 precision damage from Precise Strike with remastered Swashbuckler is broken?! What in the fuck?
>>93673216No, you got it. You don't need 8 hours and it is his fault for not shuffling patrols or doing ambushes or giving you any kind of limitations. If he wants his intense back-to-back OSR dungeon crawl, its his responsibility to make it so.A rest in PF2e can vary between 10 minutes to an hour, but it never long enough that everyone can be completely calm and free of time pressure if your GM is smart.>>93677347It is kind of stupid, it kind of exposes Swash for being incredibly redundant design and unnecessary for 2e. It ain't OP, though. It seems like they want to avoid the problem of needing a turn or exploit for a martial to be their class fantasy with the redesigned Barbarian and Swashbuckler.
>>93677270Man, they really went out on Cultivator. It's a little light on content but they really did hit all the impactful stuff, except the "fuck and slap hoes to improve your genital meridians and complete the cycle, allowing you to breakthrough to 4th cultivation tier and live another 800 years of battle."
>>93677270>We can't have a Samurai or Ninja Archetype in the book, that's too entrenched with real-world cultures and is tied too much with Japan, we don't want to be orientalist!>>>>>>>LITERAL CHINK CULTIVATION NOVEL CULTIVATORS ARE TOTALLY COOL THOUGH, ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS COURTING DEATH, MENG HAO WILL VISIT MCDONALDS IN YOUR CAMPAIGN AND YOU'LL LIKE ITgod I hate this fucking company
>>93677599Glad someone pointed that out, as cool as Cultivator and the Magus studies are, it is hilariously hypocritical to be again Japanese cliches and then kowtow to one of the most toxic literary genres in history for the Chinese.Hell, Rogue + Cultivator with some Martial Disciple stuff is basically Ninja right there, so who the fuck are they kidding?
Yeah, I could honestly understand if Ninja or Samurai were things Asians didn't enjoy, but that's extremely not the case.
>>93677599>>93677680I'm pretty sure we've been pointing it out since the book got teased and the samurai/ninja discourse started, it was fucking stupid then and it's stupid now, but it's already done so what else do we even say? I think the funnier thing is the cultivator archetype and magus studies aren't even that exciting, mechanically. Oh boy I sure love another melee hybrid study that asks me to interact with the terrible arcane cascade mechanic. I also love that I get one extremely boring as fuck focus spell and one kinda-okay-but-niche focus spell, very cool.
>>93677200>>93677270Would you be kind enough to do one for Fan Dancer too?
>>93677737Sure. Currently walking the dog, will get it when I get back
>>93677869Are there any new weapons? Could you also post the new heritages/ancestries?
>>93677709My takeaway with the whole ninja and samurai thing is more "what would these archetypes even do". Everyone has a different opinion on what a ninja or samurai archetype should be, and no matter what way they spin it, it wouldn't be good enough and people would sperg the fuck out about accuracy. While I don't like not getting ninja and samurai, I can see where Paizo was coming from with that choice to just not include them.
>>93677903Homie that's a lot. I'll try but I probably won't get done until next thread.
>>93677908Personally, I thought there was no reason to add them because you could always be a better Ninja or Samurai by picking a different class in 1e. People need to learn how to flavor shit
>>93677908at this point ninja could just be a rogue subclass
>>93677737here you go man. There is no reason this archetype should take two entire pages imo
>>93677903here's weapons. If you want ancestries, I'm gonna need some tanuki and kitsune women in exchange
where in Goloran would you find big booty latinas
>>93678246I'm not sure how easy throwing these together is, but the last thing I'm curious about from the book is starlit sentinel. I can wait if it takes too much time to throw these together though. We're only a couple days out at this point. Thanks for taking the time regardless.
>>93677903>>93677935We start with goblins because it's the first ancestry listed. I'll keep going so long as other people give a shit.
>>93678246Thanks mate, appreciate it.
>>93678355it's really not that much of a hassle because I do a lot of shops to begin with, however you also owe me tanuki and kitsune women. No furry.
>>93677903>>93678366Hungerseed is where the real meat and potatoes start, I'm actually a big fan of all the ancestry stuff in this book, most of them seem like they'll be real fun to play.
>>93678556Nice, Mishima heritage
>>93678457Accept this Korean gachaslop, m’lord!
>>93677903>>93678366>>93678556I legitimately forgot the gnome heritage existed.
I teach Pathfinder to the youth so I used the pregenned 2E Iconics for character sheets. Let me tell you that the kids fucking love Fumbus. He is always the first character that gets claimed. I've had actual fights start over being able to pick Fumbus. I don't know what it is about him, but the children can't get enough of the gob.
>>93678599Acceptable, you live for now>>93678615some funny guys. I actually really like the kobold feats
>>93678646Bro, you're cool as fuck. Thank you for everything.
Are hungerseeds added into pathifnder 2e yet? If not any unofficial homebrew version that are decent of them?
>>93678715 anon scroll up. >>93678556
>>93678752thanks anon, I am brain dead and for this I am truly sorry.
>>93678280>Liuyedao>1d4 damageI'm a begginer to PF, so I don't know exactly how things are balanced, but doesn't this seem wrong? The traits aren't that special compared to other weapons, and by the looks of it, it's not a small weapon at all. What am I missing
>>93677200Man on one hand that cascade bonus actually seems like it could be really cool, and Distant Waterbird's Poise actually looks REALLY fun, I love the idea of flipping around like a jackass. On the other the action economy around arcane cascade is still dumb as fuck, as is the fact Unsheathing The Sword-Light is the... Only "fancy sword trick" it really adds, and it's mostly just "unga bunga big number spellstrike bigger". Its focus spell really feels like it does not deserve to cost a focus point when you're not trying to recharge your spellstrike. But I could say that about basically every magus focus spell.>>93678806it has two more traits than a shortsword so it goes down by one die, shrimple as. I cannot imagine people wanting to give a fuck about a d4 weapon in 2e, but there are also only like 10 weapons worth using in the entire system so lmao.
>>93678806I think the Liuyedao works that way entirely so you can live and die off the crits (so it isn't just another shortsword as well)>>93678646I combined Fleshies and Lizardfolk while I was eating dinner.
>>93678868All the sword tricks kinda got absorbed by Spirit Warrior. I'll get there when I'm done with the ancestries.>>93678871Sprites and Poppets time. I'm still waiting for people to post cute girls.
>>93677732To be fair the new Magus is probably the best one behind Starlit Span. Even better mobility and fewer hoops to jump through than Laughing Shadow.
>>93678932Snakes and Mofus got exactly one page each and didn't require a lot of effort in cropping, so here they are.
>>93678932>All the sword tricks kinda got absorbed by Spirit Warrior. I'll get there when I'm done with the ancestries.yea, just saw a video with all of spirit warrior's stuff, it's probably my favorite archetype but it's also mildly frustrating the way the feat levels go, and the way some of it is designed. Like wow cool the best 4th level Spirit Warrior feat requires I build a small-sized PC if I want it to regularly come up, and then I have to pick between like 5 actually really cool level 6 feats (I will be taking the one that shares my handwrap runes with a held weapon and flatfoots enemies I flurry, obviously).>>93678960True, I think I might just still be salty Spellstrike is Magus's entire identity, and that it doesn't actually give a shit about Int. I'd at least like to not feel like taking in-class feats is a trap most of the time.
>>93678971Samsarans. Cutting the ancestry pages together is a bit of a pain in the ass, I won't lie.>>936789899/10 mofu
Could I play a succubus in 2e without it being too cringe? Is there even options to support it?
>>93678638Which iconic is the least popular ?
>>93679089Quinn the Investigator. I get it, it's an old guy with a magnifying glass. Doesn't really scream fantasy adventure
>>93679066Sarangay. With the fact that the heritages take up literally an entire page alone, it feels like someone at paizo was *deeply* invested in these cows.
>>93679117I'm so out of touch. I thought almost 100% for sure you'd say Ezren. Quinn is my nigga.
>>93679143Next is tanuki, but it's taking a bit to cut it up and I'm starting to get bored with nobody talking about these while I do this.
>>93679173He's a core class so the kids see "Wizard" and go for it. Once Fumbus is off the field, the most popular one for girls is Feiya the Witch and for boys is Droven the Inventor because I tell them he's Fumbus's friend.
>>93679196I’m still reading these and trying to make up my mind on them. I’m really liking the Hungerseed weapon familiarty making Nodachis straight up simple weapons though I’m not quite sure on the difference between simple and martial for classes outside of casters who don’t get martial ones.
>>93679223that's it anon, it's for casters and other classes that don't get martial weapons wholesale.
>>93679074You can. As the GM.
>>93679227Oh I suppose so but when would a caster want to be in melee? Everyone who likes melee is happy to turn things from advanced to martial. I wonder if they’ll ever do a martial class that only uses simple weapons?
>>93679196Thanks for doing it anon, Tanuki is the one I'm most excited about
>>93679196I had to step away to grab food when I realized I hadn't eaten in like, 8 hours, you're doing god's work anon.>>93679143Kinda funny they made Minotaur 2: Mini Edition. Smoke Through Bamboo is kinda crazy, even if it is locked to a small heritage, and Folk Healer is pretty cute. Crown of Bone actually seems really solid as well? These dudes are pretty funny.>>93678971Wow those kitsune feats are crazy underwhelming, I guess Augunas couldn't rally any support for his fursona race this time.
Remaking my character for the remaster and it's a huge buff but also a pain in the ass.I was and will remain an imperial sorc. They were already the best bloodline and they only got mountains of buffs in PC2. But I originally planned the character concept around ancestral memories as it was before, a focus spell that made you trained or eventually an expert in a skill. I was playing him as a good guy that was tapping into the ugly dealings oh his ancestors for things like intimidation and thievery, that kind of thing but now I just need to take skill ups like a normal person.I'd also taken crossblooded evolution before they fucked it to death. I go from having heal as a signature spell to being able to poach a stupid ass blood magic effect.
>>93678971Wow I wasn't expecting much for my Nagaji but this seems especially underwhelming. the aid buff is nice I guess. and maybe the hypnotic upgrade could be alright. darkvision is fine but a bit unexciting but I can't really think of many of the other my character might want to take at all.
>>93679417As a foxfire enthusiast I'm glad to see it get any kind of support at this point.
>>93679417Alright you convinced me. Keep giving me tanuki and kitsune women and I'll keep this up all night.>>93679289Tanuki is unironically my favorite. It's a massive shitpost of an ancestry but it looks extremely fun to play. Really captures the trickster mentality without being a carbon copy of Kitsune.
>>93677599to engage without retardation for a bit, I imagine their logic is that unlike samurai and ninja chinese niggas who could fly around on swords are purely a fictional power fantasy concept
>>93679508Despite me being introduced to the race in pf1 as metamagic weirdos that love illusion spells, Wayangs are actually extremely scarce on spellshape abilities and innate spellcasting.
>>93679508not exactly powerful, but these guys certainly have flavorI can dig it
>>93678246Whoa, good synergy with Swashbuckler
>>93679497I think it doesn't help that I have Augunas' 3pp book to leaf through and everything in there is just. Way cooler and more interesting.>>93679508I make no promises, but my sleep schedule is fucked from being put back into the NEET hole so it's not like I have anything better to do than feed your addiction.Man, Tanuki aren't super powerful, but damn if they don't have way more sovl than Kitsune with their feats, goddamn. No wonder they keep being depicted as rivals.
>>93679613Dear Anon,I am writing this letter to beseech thee to post the other Magus subclass, I think it was called Unfurling Brocade.Many thanks in advance, and may a grandiose amount of shekels bless you in the future.Sincerely, Anon.
>>93672229>Shields suck. Who cares if the Monk can wear them? Because it looks (and is) retarded? Your example is extremely autistic too, but its at least somewhat justified by the fact that you have to devote a feat to it. Raise a Shield is something already baked into the Monk's kit by default. Anyways I don't really care about the argument anymore since I realized feats like Tiger Slash exists, though I think PF2e can afford to be slightly more stringent on the necessity of having access to your fucking limbs when you're fighting.
>>93679117You'd think they'd show off one of their gays a lot more
>>93679117No fucking way he's the least popular, Quinn rules
>>93679074The only way to play a not cringe succubus is to do like an Ahri/Arushalae thing where their whole deak is their absolute refusal to engage with being a succubus, where its basically just a vampire but with sex
>>93679685He's good, but when the players are literal children, I get it.
>>93679637There's actually a section in the tanuki area that describes the "Fox-Raccoon Wars", I think it's funny but I'd feel kinda shitty to cut up even flavor options while I'm doing this.Regardless, I appreciate you feeding my mofu problem.>>93679613Yaksha look really fun, imo. Really fit the theme of warrior and protector spirits.>>93679644Sure, as soon as I finish the last of the ancestries.
>>93677270Holy fucking shit, did noone peep the wisteria and peony reunion feat? Being able to recover ALL YOUR FOCUS POINTS mid battle once per hour is ABSOLUTELY NUTTY. I might have to take this archetype on my Psychic.
>>93679708Anon I think you mis-pasted something there, anon. Other than that, Yaskha just seem kinda... Okay? I dunno I'm not sure I'm feeling it with them.>>93679750I think it's supposed to imply you're recovering HP "equal to your HP and maximum focus points", not that you recover some HP AND all your focus points
>>93679767"equal to your LEVEL and maximum focus points", fuck, I let my fingers overtake my eyes there
>>93679767ah fuck you're right.
>>93679804All good homie. Their ability boons and flaws are kinda funny. Shared with some pals and one had a laugh that it's just the Inuyasha ancestry.
>>93679804Yaoguai mark the end of the ancestry section. I'm gonna do Unfurling Brocade first, but I'm down to do class options completely as well.
>>93679893I greatly appreciate the exceptionally squeezable tanukis and kitsune. Keep it up anon.>>93679644here you go, cloth weapons.
1EJust how good would you say is the Gunslinger + Inquisitor multiclass?inb4 someone says casters > martials
>>93679896Morphic strike having an action symbol makes me nervous it somehow doesn't work with the metastrikes, but that would be fucking stupid. I think Yaoguai might be my favorite of the new ancestries. Big sucker for what they're doing, and they enable a lot of dumb shit I'd want to try.
>>93679990Like I said before, I'm a big fan of all the ancestries. Enabling my horny bullshit is just a bonus.>>93679936Five Breath Vanguard archetype and some new toys for Marshal.
>>93680019Spirit Warrior, king of the spicy wuxia bullshit and basically mandatory for Aloof Firmament Magus
Man Paizo is fucking stupid, all this weeb shit in the book, but no we can't do Ninja and Samurai. How hard is it to make archetypes for Spy Master or Ghost Warrior and Blade Master or Weapon Master. Take the Japanese identity off of it.
>>93680073see >>93677908. No matter how hard paizo tried to make ninja or samurai, some dumb motherfucker like you would sperg about how it wasn't good enough or was the wrong kind of ninja or samurai.
>>93680019>Strategist Stance uses the wrong version of Marshal's aura effectlol, lmao, one for the errata note I guess>>93680048>basically mandatory for Aloof Firmament MagusI dunno, isn't it anti-synergy on account of Aloof Firmament only benefitting from its cascade with a one-handed sword? It definitely makes sense in terms of raw STYLE, at least. "Flavor W but Mechanics L" is pretty on-brand for Paizo. God I wish a bunch of those level 6 feats were level 4 instead, the level 4 feats it has kind of suck ass. Sword Light Wave being two actions is also just kinda annoying? Just make it a 1 action flourish if you want to limit it, man, as-is it's just kind of a worse extending rune.
>>93680073I think I agree with them on ninja and samurai, what the fuck would they even be that isn't already covered by another class?It's not that making these things is inherently racist, it's that making them at this point when there's so much conceptual overlap, would necessitate pigeonholing them into whatever paizo says the class should be. Which is bad. But are retards really sitting here thinking "Hmm, I really want to play a ninja, but how can I make this work?" Motherfucker, just play a rogue or work out a rogue or monk with a caster archetype.
>>93679990I feel like, if its not a misprint, its a weird case of another Lost Omens freelancer not playing the game and thinking a temporary deal should be an action, forgetting how meta-actions work. I expect that to get Day 1 Errata since its a simple fix.>>93680019They probably should have reprinted the Marshal dedication so that you can just be trained in Society or Warfare Lore. It's starting to get to the point where it is getting more than a little cramped in terms of Skill specialization, as now there is stance for Diplomacy, Deception, Intimidation, and now Society.>>93680073>>93680121Taking out the identity would be pointless, as we have options for all those bits. It's about creating a thematic link between them that makes them Ninja and Samurai, otherwise we could have just done it by saying "I'm from Tian Xia and I use a katana". That's why Paizo's point is still pretty infuriating, no matter how valid. It is your job to provide the combination of options or point your players towards those stuff. Either show how Assassins, Martial Disciplss, Shadowdancers, or the multiclasses would differ between cultures ala the Marshal buffs or shut the fuck up.
>>93680115I'm unsure if I should cover alchemical cooking or elemental medicine. The big takeaway is that Administer Alchemical Medicine is a single feat that is over a full page long and includes a page-width table for literally just a +2 versus a poison or disease if you crit a medicine check.My honest thought is the bonuses Spirit Warrior gives to Aloof magus more than makes up for being 1 hand free in a free archetype campaign.
>>93680141Yea, fair. if you shuffle a few of the level 6 feats down to level 4 ones (namely the rune sharing and parry bonus ones) it becomes an actually 10/10 archetype without being overpowered. As-is it's just good. But I also look at it from a free archetype lense so lol, lmao
>>93679979Inquisitor in general is a really tough class to multiclass unless you know what you're doing mostly due in part to how painfully and glacially slow the Judgement system builds up power. Like, sure, at high levels you're tossing around buku bonuses to things most other classes can't even affect, but at least half the game will affect those values by a +1 or +2, which feels like nothing compared to, say, the Alchemist, who takes an undispellable Mutagen that lasts for the entire dungeon plus a bit extra, gives ability score bonuses that then have rider effects on multiple aspects of a character, plus a free bonus to AC on top of all of that. Add onto that the fact that Inquisitor spell lists are chock FULL of save or suck spells on a class that has no business being a save or suck caster, and you end up with a class where even a single level outside of the original feels like you're shooting yourself in the foot.Compare that to Gunslinger, which is well known as "the class you take 5 levels of then the rest in something else", and you've got... a weird mix, if nothing else. Neither class at base interacts with each other well, so you're probably looking into archetypes to try and force the two to play nice, which requires a fair bit of system mastery to make sure that what's being altered by those archetypes isn't just going to remove the reason why you want to play the original classes to begin with.tl;dr It's possible, but probably not worth it.>>93680121I don't really have much of a horse in the 2e state of things, but all I'll say is that if you have a game that literally has an archetype of a class called "Viking" and then turn around and say you can't figure out a way to make one called "Samurai" you need to turn in your creative license immediately.
>>93679242Alchemist?
>>93680141Did any class except monk and alchemist get anything new or no?
>>93680175>all I'll say is that if you have a game that literally has an archetype of a class called "Viking" and then turn around and say you can't figure out a way to make one called "Samurai" you need to turn in your creative license immediately.in their defense, Viking is kind of dog-ass now PIRATE is pretty good now that its dedication is just "get sudden charge+ lmao"
>>93680181Does it? I’ll admit I’ve never looked at Alchemist because it never interested me.
>>93680186OH BOY DID THEYI'm cropping Inventor right now while watching some anime.
So remaster swashbuckler.I think they made this good enough with their bravado skill checks that a gymnast can exist just tripping and grappling and make huge contributions to the team, not even bothering to attemp finishers most of the time. Derring-do at 10th level locks it in.
>>93680198Technically Alchemist has one martial weapon, bombs. It's all they need but it probably doesn't count becuase of such.Exemplar on the other hand, at least for its playtest had only Simple weapon training, since its Weapon Ikon system grants weapons custom traits.>>93680194Viking is dog-ass but it does provide the pieces and aesthetics to play a (rather weak...) Viking. I get not wanting to say one specific option is THE option (again...), but you already made the point that collecting disparate pieces in feats and aesthetics is a point of the 2e Archetype system.
>>93680230Oh is Exemplar going to have martial scaling only with simple weapons? That’d be interesting.
>>93680230Exemplar didn’t only have simple weapon training, it had martial but only light armor. I think it had a class feature that buffed simple weapons though
>>93665017Coming to this super late, but it is wild how you've trapped yourself in a box, but somehow see something objectively more open/unconstrained as restrictive.
>>93680186>>93680199Inventor options. Basically all the support the class should have gotten for a good while all at once.
>>93680230Oh yea it's not a GOOD defense, but that's because the archetype system is deeply flawed and kind of shit foundationally, because it demands the archetypes actually be well designed, which... Is extremely unlikely given this is fucking Paizo we're talking about.
>>93680262Familiar sage, just in case familiar master wasn't giving you enough familiar focus.>>93680230>>93680292God I love mofu meat.
>>93680301so what's left is monk options, elemental medicine, alchemical cooking, and then items. What do we want first?
>>93680248Shit, you are right, did had it backwards.>>93665017WotC was trying to fix the "under-monetization" problem of D&D by demanding royalties on those making money off the OGL. While they weren't named, it was pretty clear that, even with the various concessions and revisions with OGL 1.1, they were targetting Paizo and any brand that got big off of D&D-esque content. They basically proved exactly why 2e HAD to exist in the way it did and not as PF1.755e, that Hasbro at any time could say "Fuck you, pay me".>>93680301>Lightning Rings' Intervention>5ft Emanation around the familiarCan Paizo stop trying to get our Familiars killed? If you want them in the middle of combat so bad, don't give them such worthless defenses.>>93680333Alchemical Cooking, and the Wandering Chef archetype?
>>93680301Can you show the new familiar abilities and specific familiars? My Kitsune witch is highly disappointed in the ancestry feats, but I've seen some mentions of familiar stuff that might be pretty fun.
>>93680409here's wandering chef. The actual cooking section is a bit involved, including items and rituals of all things. If I could get some wider ladies, or at least more tanukis, that'd be great. >>93680434Sure thing, that'll come next.
>>93680434>>93680436Familiars for witches
Fuck it, enjoy your magical raccoon shit and super cooking
>>93678556>Oni Weapon FamiliarityAre any of these eligible for Deadly Simplicity?>Oni FormOh hey this looks>Clumsy 1PAIZO WHY. WHY DO YOU HATE FUN>Bloodsoaked DashReally good if your GM bans Longstrider wands, trash otherwise.>Storming/Tempest GazeIf you like Haunting Hymn you'll LOVE this.Please tell me this gets 3 boosts, and the flaw isn't to DEX or WIS.>>93678871Is Return to the Seed the Primal equivalent of Lichdom, or the Vegetable Kingdom equivalent of unbirthing?>>93678971Holy shit these are bad. Is Dark Fields Kitsune not a thing anymore? That was almost worth building around.Also where's the Corruption of Champions art? If we're going to have Kitsune vs Tanuki wars...>>936790663 boosts, and it's two saving throws? Nice, I like it already! Low-light vision, good we can grab nephilim for Darkvision. But there are two decent heritages, free Guidance/Electric Arc or 1/day super Recall Knowledge. Let's see the feats.Weird how all Samsaran Fighters were reincarnated from Gnomes, huh? I hope the Samsaran People's Militia have standard issue flickmaces. This needs to be canon. I demand it.Once a day you can re-roll a Will save against demoralize or any emotion effect, sounds good on its own, but then you can do this for ANY save once a day? Really? Lmao that's actually good whose mary sue is this?
>>93680436Holy crap literally perfect for my goofy Halfling Chef armed with a frying pan idea, this is amazing.
>>93680483It's a versatile heritage, so it depends on the ancestry you plug it on. The weapons are posted here >>93678280As for Kitsune vs Tanuki wars, post the art yourself.
>>93680436Wandering Chef seems kinda neat, not super strong (assuming the food isn't actually that special), but pretty neat.I'm sorry but I have alarmingly few tanuki, at least that I can easily find. Will a MILF-sune do?>>93680483>Is Dark Fields Kitsune not a thing anymore?nah, that page is just additional content for old ancestries, the additional content just fucking sucks
>>93680483>treat an advanced weapon (nodachi) as simple for proficiency purposesThat's a new one. Doesn't it usually go martial to simple and advanced to martial?
>>93680516Milf-sune and other chunky mofus work good too. I'm just looking for squeezable mofus desu.Here's the cooking rituals. Next comes alchemical foods, probably.
>>93680436It is baffling they took so long for them to make a chef archetype but good it is here and looks pretty effective.>spoilerGood to know we talking on the same level of "squishy" here. don't know why so hard to find fat fucking mamizou art compared to Ran...>>93680483>Are any of these eligible for Deadly Simplicity?No, treating a weapon as simple is not the same as a Simple weapon. Would not work for Deadly Simplicity.>PAIZO WHY. WHY DO YOU HATE FUNI feel more irked by the need to sustain it problem than the Clumsy 1. It's not that bad and wouldn't stack.>Also where's the Corruption of Champions art?This is the problem with CoC2 being so much LESSER than one, very few get exposed to The Observer's absolute kitsune autism.>>93680518Yeah, it is kind of shittily worded. That entire block just feels fucked, from putting a weapon in there and the Simple Advanced Weapon.
>>93680483Thousand-Year Grudge is OP for anyone else, that Charisma flaw is brutal. I am fully expecting Sorcerers, Champions, and anyone maxing Demoralize to be adopted by Samsarans. Let me put on my robe and witch hat, and explain:>Frightened>You're gripped by fear and struggle to control your nerves. >The frightened condition always includes a value. You take a status penalty equal to this value to all your checks and DCs. >Unless specified otherwise, at the end of each of your turns, the value of your frightened condition decreases by 1.An amazing condition, unfortunately it gets weaker every turn. Also, one of a few conditions your familiar can't extend. Still really good and crucial for helping spells to land without access to potency runes, and helping your teammates hit.Typically, because it's hard to keep enemies at Frightened 2 or 3, Dirge of Doom is preferred for a consistent way to keep Frightened 1 continuously applied without a save. After than, someone with a high Strength or Bloodline Magic to reliably Demoralize and frequently crit is the next best option.>Sickened>You feel ill. Sickened always includes a value. You take a status penalty equal to this value on all your checks and DCs.So far same as frightened.>You can spend a single action retching in an attempt to recover, which lets you immediately attempt a Fortitude save against the DC of the effect that made you sickened. That Fortitude save is penalized by your current Sickened value.>On a success, you reduce your sickened value by 1 (or by 2 on a critical success).This is incredible for anyone using Demoralize frequently, any applying their +2 from Demonic/Elemental Blood Magic or their Strength to the roll. Your ability to get enemies to crit fail a Demoralize, what, 20? 25 percent of the time? now actually pays off, as you've got a bigger Status debuff on them than the Bard does, and they have to waste an action to ATTEMPT to make it go away... too good!
>>93680549>>93680560Here's the rest of the alchemical food, organized the best I could squeeze it together.let me know what you want next, naturally.A fitting mofu would also be appreciated, naturally.
>>93680622here's the complete and absolute horseshit that is elemental medicine. Everything from the first column down to the table is *one* feat's entry.
>>93680677>mongoloids would rather have 0 examples and no relations as to which elements heal whatGreat game design faggot, Paizo wants (YOU) for the adventure writing team!
>>93680702It's an entire page for Treat Disease and that's kinda just nonsense imo. Especially when Paizo's clearly writing within a set page limit per book.
>>93680622Is the Monkey Kings Staff in the Tian Book Cool someone told me it was in it
>>93680714currently copying down Monk actually martial artist, who the fuck would actually believe monk got anything good in the weeb book , but I can do the specific magic items next.
Just popping in to say you're doing god's work Anon.
>>93680712Sneak (PC 245) is nearly a whole page with a table that still leaves out what exactly Observed, Hidden, and Undetected mean. Lost Omens are already the useless horseshit books, I don't really care that they fully explain the concept to people unfamiliar with the practice. Who are you, the publisher?
>>93680473Kindling is an interesting ability. Not worth it unless you're sure your adventuring day is about to be over, but the idea of Chiaotzuing my familiar for a bunch of extra damage on my fireball is hilarious. Thanks
>>93680724It's actually so fucking insane monk didn't get this feat >>93664663 to the point I start getting a headache if I think about it too much. It's doubly insane that monk gets negative benefit from Spirit Warrior, because "Parry fist that upgrades to +2 circumstance bonus to def, and the ability to block damage with your fist later" feels like... Shit monk should FUCKING HAVE BUILT IN???
>>93680516That's a relief.>>93680560I just read Deadly Simplicity again, it checks if the Deity's weapon is Simple, not if you treat it as Simple. I give up, this feat is a dud unless you're specifically trying to play a tetsubo wizard or something stupid.And the game suffers from savin refusing to manage anyone. As a result it's not so much a game as a bunch of disconnected plotlines and smut novellas that don't interact with one another, barely held together by the Kasyrra metanarrative. No editing, no deadlines, just stay in your corner working on your thing and turn it in when you want money while he wrings money out of the Patreon.>>93680602I forgot I Will Return. You get one of the only good General Feats for FREE, and then once a day you just get a consequence free dirt nap? Lololol again whose mary sue is this?>>93679143Wisdom flaw? HA! SarangaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyFree Guidance, nice.+1 circumstance to treat wounds/disease, again, the wisdom flaw ruins this. More importantly, anon recently taught me why this doesn't affect Battle Medicine, so you're using this out of combat only, when Aid is available.This is so bad, not worth.>>93679508Another Wisdom Flaw. Let's see if this is as good as Ancient Elf>Hasty CelebrationOnce per hour is basically once per encounter? It's not bad for Longbow martials and casters. Too bad that Wisdom flaw is penalizing for Clerics, Druids, Rangers, and Resentment Witches (INT casters, rely on 4+ Wisdom and Incredible Initiative at Level 5)>the ancestry overallI'm sorry, I love how flavorful it is, but the Wisdom Flaw, 25ft move, and lack of utility makes this a struggle in a d20 game. At least opt for the 2 boosts so you're only losing out on opportunity cost. It's such a shame because both this and Kitsune really hit Simulationism and Narrative on the head in one of the most Gamist, combat-forward systems. I will never judge any Kitsune or Tanuki players.
>>93680734You can help by posting mofus, you know. >>93680677Here's Monk and by Monk I mean Martial Artist feats and Kaiju Stance because paizo fucking despises the mere concept of monk as a class getting anything unique added to the class. >>93680744The familiar stuff is very fun, I like it a lot as a long term witch defender and familiar addict. I've even got a familiar on my kineticist.If your kitsune witch has any art, you should post em.>>93680745Monk getting cucked to hell is amusing as much as it is infuriating.
>>93680755While I'm getting to the magic item, it's worth notingonly one of the six ancestries introduced in this book does not get a charisma bonus.two of those five with a charisma bonus also get a constitution bonus. It's very weird stat spreads all the way down in tian xia.Thankfully, we have the alternative boosts rules And my table lets you pick 3 + flaw if it fits your character concept better for the feat options.
>>93680745Saving my reaction to strike opponents while standing in the admittedly worse Ironblood Stance (2dr, 3 at 12, 4 at 16, 5 at 20)
>>93680677Good job, anon. This look like a bitch to format into a pic. All this for TREAT FUCKING DISEASE.Have a fat fuckin' fox before the thread gets locked.>>93680745Monk doesn't really NEED extra defenses other than Deflect Arrow. It really more helpful for other martials. Still, the thought of having more blocking feats would be neat to help those that want to go into Defender-oriented monks and leverage that Legendary Unarmored Defense. Twisting Petals Stance actually has something with the right idea, debuffs and repositioning on misses.
>>93680756>advanced monastic weaponryWhy did they waste wordcount reprinting a feat that was in PC2?
>>93680798>Monk doesn't really NEED extra defenses other than Deflect Arrow.It's the principle of things, and me being pissed this shit is spread out among two archetypes that are actively terrible on the class that is ostensibly dedicated to unarmed combat. I'm already pissed that Monastic Weapon doesn't have the rune sharing effect so I can mix unarmed and weapon on monk itself without paying out the ass!
>>93680806so they could give it to Martial Artist, of course.>>93680798Little too much for my taste, but thank you nonetheless. If you could start a new thread so I can finish dumping these, that'd be super.
>>93680714here's the staff before the thread dies anon. I hope it helps.
>>93680835Thank you good sir
>all this monk cuckeryI genuinely don't understand. Why did Paizo even bother printing Monk, when they so clearly despise the class? Could've thrown in some OGL cope, and just not ported Monk to 2e, would've been preferable to this spite-driven treatment.
>Learning Pf2e>Get to weapons>Find out about treasure vault and ancestry weaponsWhat the fuck is this. How do I even evaluate what is good when there's 500 weapons. Are they generally samey with an uncomplicated way to compare them? Some ancestry ones seem very out there like the Barricade Buster but others are just Longsword*
I'm sorry anons, my internet's cut out. I can't keep posting until it fixes. I hope you guys have had fun so far at least.
>>93679613>25ft move>Constitution flaw>nothing remotely worthwhileGarbage. I apologize if this thing has the same cultural inertia as Elves in a different part of the world, but I see no reason to play this. I don't think anyone would play a full Elven Elf if not for Ancient Elf, however.>>93679804>Deny The Traitor's Rebirth>in the event you run into a formerly always Chaotic Evil demon that can clap your cheeks, or is actually a good -NEVERMIND CAN'T USE THE G-WORD- benevolent person you don't actually have to fight themlmao I'm on board with no more alignment Paizo, but why do you have to be so weird about it?>>93679804What's my incentive to play Xiao Genshin?>Jump once per dayDamn, are Golarion's Artifact Domains not dropping ER Sands or what?Laugh with me Genshinfag. I know you're in here. >Fiend-Trampling StatureNice, I can re-enact "Heavenly Yaksha" Doflamingo stomping on Law>Withstand the StormSorcerer called, they want their Class Feat back>Abjure the False KinYou get pseudo Incapacitation. WeirdSeriously this ancestry is so disappointing. I saw Yaksha and expected some badass warrior, not... this.I will read and opine on Yaoguai tomorrow, it's all starting to become so tedious. Only Samsarans have anything interesting. Why did Paizo feel the need to publish this, when they could have fixed Ranger with literally half the effort?>>93680262Oil Fire? more like Dumpster Fire! Get it? Because it's for inventor...>>93680301I got excited about Fulu Familiars and then read >While transformed, your familiar doesn't grant its normal benefitsDamn, I can't turn a Familiar of Ongoing Misery into the fighter's weapon enhancement. Well, I can, but there go all my class features that aren't Cauldron or Spellcasting. Worthless.>>93680409>Can Paizo stop trying to get our Familiars killed?Seriously, this is why I hate Silence in Snow and The Inscribed One. Might as well not have a patron at all if it requires my familiar to enter melee.
>>93680935>how do I evaluate themWeapon dice is the most important thing, followed by reach and finesse (for specific classes). 1-handers are d8, 2-handers are d12. Reach or finesse both downgrade die size by 1. Trip and grapple are good traits for saving money and are best on builds that are going to be tight on cash and/or have no free hands (so 2h, shield, or consumable-heavy builds). No other trait is worth mentioning and no trait other than reach or finesse is ever worth a lower die size (unless it's Fatal and you're playing fighter)
>>93680959oh absolutely, roasting Paizo is always a pleasure, and Samsaran looks ridiculously exploitable and memeable. I don't even use Golarion and I want to have my party run into a race of humanoids who all reincarnated from optimized characters who died in dungeons, and that's why every soldier is born knowing how to wield a Gnome Flickmace, and every scholar can rememeber how to cast Electric Arc after they learn to talk.Here's your tithe when your internet comes back. Filename related.
>>93681091Thanks anon, that helps a lot. A lot of the traits seemed pretty bizarre (Razing is basically useless unless you have a specific kind of setting/dm it seems like?)The Sukgung seemed wildly overtuned but that seems a bit more grounded now.
>>93680935Same thing as the spells, dude. Are you really supposed to read FOURTEEN HUNDRED PLUS entries? No that's absolutely insane. Google to get some ideas of what people like, try to find more articulate answers explaining why, then use the Advanced Search feature to find similar weapons with the properties you value.For instance, people typically prefer the Gnome Flickmace or Pick. They're both d6 one-handed which means they'll work with Double Slice. Gnome Flickmace is a flail, which trips on a crit, and has reach. Picks do 2 extra damage per weapon die on a crit, and also have Fatal d10, which means on a crit all damage dice are upgraded to d10s and then you add another d10.People also like the Guisarme, which is 2 handed but has reach, trip (you can trip without needing a hand free) which reach applies to, and does d10 damage.>>93681146Razing is situationally amazing because of how shields work, but useless against anything without a shield. If your GM only runs pre-published adventures it's garbage. If your GM makes you fight enemies with shields it can make a humanoid enemy with a magic shield significantly easier to deal with.The Dwarven Dorn-Dergar is good for this, if you want an all-purpose weapon and don't value the Guisarme's trip as much as knockdown on crit from Flails.
>>93681146Razing is good if your gm really loves enemies with shields and animated objects but that's about it.
>>93681158This helps put it in perspective a lot. I find knowing what the best in slot things tend to be helps work backwards to what you want to use thematically and know what you're giving up.>>93681165I just don't see a new GM really tracking object health in general, I'm not anticipating a lot of shield enemies for this reason.
>>93678280Meteor Hammer is still goodIs Karambit new? I feel like this is an upgrade for Rogues.
>>93681179I'm no huge wuxia fan but I would play a meteor hammer build in a heartbeat. Once I know more about the game I'll probably find some way to build around it as much as possible.
>>93681176I run a lot of NPCs, because PF2 does character on character encounters well.PF2 is at is weakest making parties fight monsters 3 or more levels above the party average in cramped featureless rooms.For whatever stupid, inane reason, prepublished material has most of the encounters as the latter. Something about this game produces the laziest, dumbest GMs who pick up said prewritten adventures and run them for years.The main reason I play this game is that it's so much easier and comfier to design encounters for than other games. It's actually fun and enjoyable to plan and run fights in PF2, and I can focus on making memorable characters. Yanking some poorly designed monster of the week out of the monster manual or some AP will ruin everyone's fun.So again, the other anon >>93681091 is right. In an official AP, only Reach, Trip, Fatal matter.However, if your GM breaks the meta, certain things gain value drastically.For instance, if your party of 4 fights 10 same level Fighters, Sweep might be really nice on a Reach weapon. Paizo's published material will NEVER have you in this situation, but I would certainly do this, maybe have one higher level or with better items because that's the Lieutenant and they're all soldiers.Paizo would have you fight some random monster and just arbitrarily break their own math to make its armor and saves higher. I might just create an optimized Champion with level appropriate gear who is 3 levels above the party. Breaking his shield with a Raze weapon lowers his armor by 2 for the rest of the fight, and turns off a few class abilities.>>93681184I'm not either, I looked at it and thought of a two-headed version of the Witch-King of Angmar's flail.Rule of cool, and I like its critical effect better than Guisarme. You lose 1 average damage from the die downgrade. Disarm is the shittiest combat manuever, and Backswing will rarely be useful. I'd still use it on a Barbarian or Flurry Ranger.
>>93681299I've dm'd for years and got sick of monster in empty room in the first couple of months.I've only used it a few times since, for particularly climactic encounters where you do want to fight in a classic arena/field, but otherwise moving fights or complicated rooms are always more fun.I started with PbtA and slowly homebrewed more features like diverse equipment, skill proficiencies and cover mechanics so I could ease them into something more complicated.We'll probably jump to Pf2e at the end of the year (thank god, I've homebrewed ptba so much that I've rewritten the classes and made all my own spells, it's exhausting trying to give it more depth)And then hopefully I can move to way more diverse encounter design. A naval campaign could be fun, with all the extra crafting mechanics.
>>93681299I think it says a lot that Fireball has a 500ft range and yet the average Paizo encounter takes place in a space smaller than that spell's blast radius.
Earth kineticist seems genuinely pretty tanky with armour in earth. Will it work as a frontliner with weapon infusion and strength build?Hard to figure out if they're durable enough
>>93681299>>93681350It's honestly baffling how incompetent and lazy Paizo encounter design still is. Interesting maps with terrain or features that add some interactivity and tactical options? Synergistic enemy combinations that necessitate some thought and smart threat assessment from the party? Combat objectives beyond "kill everything and don't die"?Nah, fuck all that gay shit, slap a single enemy in a room so small it can barely fit all combatants, and jack up its stats so it doesn't collapse under the action economy. So fucking uninspired and bland. Running APs must be a miserable experience for DMs, they're given fucking nothing to work with.
>>93680835Man magic items really do suck ass in this game. A 20th level artifact can only do a once per day spell like ability, give you a +4 to hide it which rarely ever comes up and the effects of boots of bounding. Great.
>>93680121>I think I agree with them on ninja and samurai, what the fuck would they even be that isn't already covered by another class?Oh piss off with this shit argument. PF2e has fucking archetypes for a magic girl in the very same book and has archetypes for Pirates and Vikings.>Samurai Archetype ideasIaijutsu feat lineHonourable Challenge feat lineResolve feat lineMount feat linePoetry feat line>Ninja (Rogue Class archetype)Ninja weapon feat lineSmoke bomb featsNaruto style focus spells like shadow clones
>>93681628Honestly only pushes it even more that high level magic items should always be DM homebrew catered to the Pc's backstory and character arc while helping to balance out power imbalances in the party, always an improvement that way
>>93681742Man i wish magic items were stronger. You dont need 10 fucking magic item slots with minor bonuses. Just give me 5 slots with truly powerful magic items that are very rare and cant just be bought in a Mort's Magic Mart.
>>93681776They're fun to make at least, if your dm is fun or willing to work with you to make fitting items.But it definitely doesn't scratch the same itch as character building using the vanilla elements.
>>93681092I'm frankly surprised we don't have a thread up yet, but thank you for this anon. Here's animal companions, now that the net is back up. All that's really left is Gear, and I'm open to suggestions and mofus to determine what I should post next
>>93682110here's the equipment that isn't weapons or artifacts, I'll do those each seperately.
>>93679979It's pretty solid. Depending on when you think the game will end you may want to take something more frontloaded though.
>>93682165weapons, next will be artifacts and then I guess I can take requests for lore blurbs. >>93682239wrong neighborhood, anon
>>93682246and with artifacts, I think I covered everything mechanical in this book. Been a fun ride, anons and mofu lovers.
>>93682246so instead of giving the nodachi something good they just made its dogshit gimmick better, awesome. Hope the autists that like sacrificing two thirds of their turn and reaction for a single strike are happy
>>93682297Would making the thing D10 damage like it was in 1e actually make it overpowered in any way? I'm personally leaning towards no but I seem to value most traits far less than the devs do?
>>93682297>they just made its dogshit gimmick betterThey made it's dogshit gimmick better once per 10 minutes. You could be using this thing every round and it wouldn't make a difference on a LEVEL SIX ITEM
>>93682361The issue with the nodachi isn't its damage die, it's the way the ready action works. The extra damage from brace might be worth it if ready just took the amount of the same amount of actions as what you prepared
>>93682361think if they just bumped it up to a d10 then it would be at the power level you would expect from an advanced weapon (though the new mauler dedication has been a huge help to classes other than fighter to gain access to 2h advanced weapons)Like the other anon said, brace is just absolutely worthless due to how readying works and is a dead trait for a weapon to have.
Having just caught up on the anon's share i have to say that quite a bit of the stuff seems really interesting, of course there are some duds like the 5 elemental stances, or just things that are more fitting of a 18-20 short adventure rather than whole 1-20 journey but overall they seem nice
>>93682484Why is Paizo so utterly incapable of balancing the alleged higher tier of weapons? It was like this with exotic weapons back in 1E too.
>>93682558I wish I understood the class balance a bit better, like can Earth/Fire legitimately tank or at least alongside mostly ranged allies without getting domed
>>93680262>Oil FireSeems nice for guys going for the power suit. The only competition at lvl 2 is Searing Restoration, which I think is probably better but not so much better I wouldn't think about it. >Wu KongProbably just the only pick for weapon inventors. Annoying that ranged weapon Innovations seem to still have no support. >Duo Dragon KickI guess this is mostly for action compression? Although most every time I see people talking about Construct Inventor they usually go for ranged weapons. It's also at the same tier as Advanced Construct Companion which is just kinda the same thing. >Silk BraceletDon't see this being more useful than Megavolt really. Although Fort saves in the game I'm in have just generally been pretty high so maybe I'm biased.>Sea MinesReally cool to see some support for underwater shenanigans. Really situational but good when it works. >Lion RoarSeems auto-pick if you aren't doing gadgets or Construct innovation. >Retaliation Heyyyy bro, you want another Unstable? It looks useful though. +4 AC is nothing to sneeze at. Sorta odd this winds up sharing a slot with Electrify Armor though when level 10 has nothing for weapon Innovations.>Cacophony 6d8 damage and anyone who moves out of the area is taking another 2d8 persistent fire damage. Seems good. Looks like an auto-pick unless you're dying to grab Megavolt.
>>93682949New thread
>>93682716It also was like this with D&D 3.0 and 3.5 weapons.
>>93682716They’re afraid of having another gnome flickmace but as a result, they’re making weapons that are barely above or sometimes even below martial options.
>>93681460I think it works great, you still go con 18 of course, but with str secondary and free boost with mantle you do okay melee damage and are good at athletics. It isn't as good as other tanks for damage so you need to either choose the air/earth stance or some other way to boost damage. If you combo with wood and make walls with arrow slits for your ranged characters and tree's for your melee you are a great proactive tank but not a great reactive one like most.
>>93681460They are plenty tanky. Great AC, earliest possible Armor specialization, great HP and best Fort save thx to Con as main stat, solid impulse junction. If you mix with wood, you can spam trees that absorb a ton of damage, making you a top 3 tank in the game.
>>93682997>>93683040Cool, I'll go check out the wood feats then
>>93683067Wood is good and protector tree in particular seems really overtuned and is one I've heard of dms specifically nerfing, but just thought I'd throw a mention to Water. Playing Earth/Water frontline kineticist right now. probably a bit less tanky but you get some healing (also on wood) and strong area control. Winter Sleet at 4 is an absurd stance even after the errata nerfs and combos well with the earth aura junction (difficult terrain means they usually can't step and if they try to move and don't step they need to do a save or fall prone), the water impulse junction also lets you push people around whenever you damage them with a water impulse, and the composite roiling mudslide is a 30 foot cone damage aoe that pushes anyone who fails and coats them in mud so they fall prone after any movement without a similar check. call the hurricane at 8 is a massive damage aoe around you that also pushes enemies. Honestly I spent a lot of time trying to think of a way to fit all 3 into the same build but the junctions were just too tempting for me personally. not to say Earth wood is bad at all, it isn't, I just liked the flavour of water too much.
>>93683197Alright this does sound pretty cool. I dismissed water because I'd be too tempted to try to build around Steam Knight, but if it's more on the Control side then I'm in
Can I get a quick rundown on how psychic works, particularly compared to wizard? I'm gonna roll up my first caster that isn't a cleric, and since the other casters in the party are charisma casters I figure I'll make an intelligence one.
>>93683428So (assuming 2e here) for the basic idea, psychics get low spell slots compared to most casters, basically +1 every level except 20 1 at level 1, 2 at level 2, 3 at level 3 (2 1st level and 1 2nd level). to compensate for this they get buffs to their cantrips, one of their subclasses gives a specific list of 3 cantrips. 2 normal ones that get slightly enhanced effects, and a unique one for that subclass, they get 2 more unique ones at 6 and 10 respectively. these cantrips can all be 'amped' for an additional effect with a focus point. you start with 2 and get your third at level 5. otherwise fairly standard chassis for casters, 6 hp, no armor training, shit saves. oh and they use the occult spell list which is more buff and debuff focused, has some healing but not the spell heal, a lot of stuff for will saves. though some of the cantrips come from elsewhere.Psychic has 2 sort of 'subclass' choices at level 1. subconscious mind determines your key ability score and a psyche action, 2 each for CHA and INT, the int ones are Precise Discipline and Gathered Lore.the more impactful choice is the conscious mind of which there are 6 options. these determine the cantrips I mentioned earlier and their amps. fairly wide variety in terms of flavour. I'll just mention the universal cantrips because you might actually know those, you can look into the rest. 1 focused on telekinesis (telekinetic projectile, mage hand) one is on analysis (Detect Magic, Guidance), one is like... hot and cold energy manipulation(Frostbite, Ignition) mind reading (daze, message), creating objects (figment shield), and warping space (phase bolt, warp step).also there's unleash psyche, sort of temporary 'rage' mechanic for casting, adds flat damage based on spell level for 2 rounds, then stupefies you for 2 rounds after, activated with a free action if you cast a spell last turn. can use special 'psyche actions' from either subconscious mind or class feats.
>>93683674So it's a caster class that's more focused on cantrips than levelled spell slots, and in exchange it gets extra cantrip-buffing?
>>93684286Yeah basically. some of the amps are really strong. for example the one I played, the campaign didn't get that far but silent whisper at level 6 gets 'shatter mind' which by default is 3d4 mental damage to enemies only in a 15 foot cone on a will save. amped you can put that up to a 60 foot cone and change the die to D10s and stupify enemies on a fail. at level 6 when you get it that's 3d10 damage in a big aoe that doesn't friendly fire, and +6 per target if you're in unleash, and you can do that up to 3 times a fight. That's one of the better ones which is why I picked it, but to give another example I'll take a standard cantrip, telekinetic projectile, normally 30 ft spell attack that deals 2d6 of a physical damage type to a single target, doubled on a crit, just having the distant grasp makes your telekinetic projectile range double to 60ft, and amping it makes anyone hit by it pushed 5 ft and 10 on a crit. amped it also scales twice as fast getting 2d6 per spell level it goes up
2eWill I want to kill myself playing an alchemist now? Thinking of bomber or mutagenist.
What 2e creatures can I reasonably reskin as Predators and Xenomorphs
>>93684761Depends on what you didn't like about the class before. Instead of having all your vials be daily now you have a very small number of per day vials (4) and a number of vials that you regain at a rate of 2 every 10min and you can have up to 2+INT of them.New alchemist is much more flexible, you get to use more of your autistic knowledge into the entire list of alchemical consumables. Quick Alchemy is no longer a massive opportunity cost because of the way the conversion worked for your field's consumables. But on the action side you aren't better off. Somewhat worse in some regards because you need to draw and quick alchemy them into an actual alchemical consumable.
>>93684421That does sound fun to play with, basically turning cantrips into something that can compete with spells. Would it be a good intro to caster classes or would sticking with wizard be better?
>>93684976Wizard is probably the worst caster class in the game now. Psychic is good but its basically missing a class feature because of the remaster changes to focus spells and it can fall behind at mid game because all your spell attacks have shit to hit compared to a martial.
>>93684893Got it, thanks. Bomber seems cool with the new Quick Bomber, but mutagenist gets jack shit lol. 4 temp hp to go to the frontlines with no combat feats or damage amps. Am I missing something?
So I'm new to pathfinder, and with the new of Paizo outlwaing stuff from the 1st edition due to ogl shenanigans I guess? I could be wrong, what are we not allowed to use anymore and could people maybe homebrew stuff from older editions for the newest edition.
>>93685333I think you've got a few different things confused. The bullet-point version is:>Pathfinder 1EPathfinder was originally created with the explicit purpose of being compatible with D&D 3.5E. This game is effectively a spiritual successor to D&D 3.5E, but set in its own kitchen-sink fantasy setting. This was an OGL product. Paizo continued support for it for about a decade.>Pathfinder 2EThe second edition of Pathfinder is no longer a continuation for D&D 3.5E and is instead a genuine attempt at a new edition of the game. In the same way that D&D 5E material is not compatible with D&D 3E material, Pathfinder 2E material is not compatible with Pathfinder 1E material. It is a different game. Same setting, same general vibe, but it's an entirely new edition.>Pathfinder 2E RemasterThis is the fucky part. Pathfinder 2E was originally published as an OGL product. When Wizards of the Coast nuked that license, Paizo responded with a sweeping project to completely divorce their second edition from anything that Wizards could potentially sue them for. Alignments have been removed. Tieflings and Aasimar have been renamed. Drow were retconned out of existence. Iconic spells and items like the Bag of Holding or Magic Missile have been renamed. New editions of the books have been put together and released with the new terminology, and Paizo also took the opportunity to issue a bunch of balance changes along with them. Collectively, this is the remaster project. Remaster material *is* all compatible with 2E material from before the remaster, although a lot of the terms have changed.So in short:>1E is compatible with D&D 3.5. It is not compatible with 2E material.>All 2E material is compatible, although there might be some rule- and name-related wonkiness between pre- and post-remaster material.
>>93685069Mutagenist benefits a lot from the vial system changes since you can prep your mutagens on the daily vials and use the other vials to self buff (soothing and numbing as a combo is pretty good at keeping you alive). The ability to burn up a mutagen to stop its effect means some significant downsides are much more controllable. War mutagen or Juggernaut also become manageable with the VV + option to burn them up.Additionally the current Vial system also means that you can still play a bomber without the field, in fact a mutagenist has a nice advantage with how they can skirt one of Quicksilver main drawbacks. No need to wade into melee. Mutagenist DOES still take till 13 to actually become better than "off-spec bomber" though. And melee will never not be a place you don't want to be, you don't have the AC or the HP. Shield and Armor (from FA because you certainly don't have the open feats cause you are still taxed like a fucking northern european) CAN help but then you really don't have the numbers to be hitting things reliably because your main proficiency is in bombs.You still can lob bombs and you could in theory just be an off-spec bomber but with more survivability from mutagen abuse.If you become the local meth dealer, then mutagenist is sort of the survival version. Chirurgeon is more helpful in raw hp numbers but mutagenist can stay alive themselves longer. Bomber helps by being able to do consistent chip (which shouldn't be discarded). But you cannot realistically do the Jekyll-n-Hyde mutagenist of 1E, not even with the changes. Not unless you don't mind dying while whiffing everything
I finally figured out what bugs me the most about Overdrive. It's not just an action tax, it's an action tax that doesn't do anything other than boost your damage. Ranger and Thaumaturge can recall knowledge and grant bonuses with their action taxes. Gunslingers can do all kinds of things when they reload. Overdrive doesn't do anything else, and it still has a chance to fail so horribly that you can't use it for the rest of the encounter.
Does reflect harm really have no action cost? That's nuts. I can crit fail a save against a spell, reflect the already doubled damage I took back to the caster 2x if I crit and it's not even a reaction?Sure, that scenario is unlikely to ever occur but still, that's in oneshotting a boss territory which 2e really tries to avoid.
