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these will be in standard until 2027 by the way
>>93799910>TQUnban my fat cock
>>93799910Bow down.NOW.
>>93799929honestly? good
dredge chads is our time to come back?
>>93799939I welcome the age of the red overchads
>>93799952>takes one look at ghost vacuum
>>93799929>>93799939How could anybody be concerned about the lands when they keep forgetting to give red any identity beyond the "win the game as fast as physically possible" color
Everyone thank our lord Val for crashing Standard with no survivors.
>>93799952>leyline of the void>ghost vacuumno lol
>>93799939>Shivan Meteor your face twice on turn 2>Also I get four 2/2sg2? xD
>>93799939HAHHAHAHA TURN 3 RDW FLINGUPGRADED TO TURN 2 RDW FLING
>>93799958>>93799969>>93799977VALGAVOTHI....I KNEEL!
>>93799939>turn 1 leyline, leyline, mountain, cacophony scamp>turn 2 turn inside outwhat, you thought I needed a 2nd pump spell or 2nd mountain? I just dealt 20 damage to yousure I could get 1x leyline with monstrous rage + turn inside out and deal 24 damage but then I need my 2nd mountain
>>93799939>the more you have, the more copies you getIT'S NOT EVEN BAD IF HAVE MORE THAN ONE IN THE OPENERIT SCALES WITH ITSELF WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
>>93799939>"We did not playtest the final version of Leyline lf Resonance"Be prepared lmao, i think this will be an emergency ban.
>>93799929Just a shame that these good, cool lands are attached to one of the least creative planes ever created.
>>93799994>Turn 1 mountain, leyline, leyline, leyline, leyline, scamp>turn 2 TIO, hit you for 32xD Better luck next time, nerd
People joked about the art in the set not being particularly scary but this is actually the scariest set they've ever made
>>93800000
>>93799939this is going to enable infinite combos I swear to fucking god>hehe I target my dualcaster mage with a clone effect :^)
>>93800016Yep. Works wonders with Magecraft too, but I didn't find anything particularly egregious with that other than Clever Lumimancer going extremely fast.
>>93800000quint post truth post
>>93799939Hot take, it will probably make your aggro deck worse if you include this.If you don't have this in your opener it's absolutely horrible and even if you do you will be down a card that will do absolutely nothing if your creature is removed.Usually you counteract that by holding up protection in addition to your pump spell, but since you already mulliganed for free you will be less likely to have a creature, + pump + protection + the lands to make it all work.People have tried to make aggro leylines work before and it always turned out shit.
Remember when people were freaking out about the red 3/3 that stopped people healing. How quaint it all seemed.....
Can see play or it's too expensive?
>>93800036This. There's already a T2 win for prowess that uses Leyline of the Guildpact, and nobody runs it because of these issues.
>>93800036>If you don't have this in your opener it's absolutely horrible>UpsideYou win by turn 2 consistently.>DownsideBut you might draw it on turn 5 and be sad! :(Damn, you've convinced me.Crisis averted, bros!
>eight unlocked doors is just four Room permanentsMaze's End 2.0 is goofy enough that I'll give it a spin.
now i'm just a happy little clown.
>>93800059>6 mana to kill 2 creaturesThis will feel great against lizards and rabbits.
>>93800059not too expensive - too many black pips
>>93800059It's either a 4 mana do nothing or a 6 mana edict that makes everyone lose 3 life. It's shit.
My verdict on the art so far is I like everything except the humans.
>>93800059I think any mono-black goodstuff deck is gonna be content to Sheoldred their opponents to death over trying to make this work
>>93800072You can't win on T2 even with something like T1 Swiftspear and T2 two monstrous rages, especially since the monster role doesn't stack.Also the copies don't trigger prowess.
>>93800036Now consider the counterargumenta deck that consistently wins on turn 2-3 will only draw 1-3 cards per game, total. It will see 7 cards in opening hand and 8-10 over the course of the game, depending on if it was on the play vs draw, turn 2 or turn 3 kill.There's about a 78% chance that your leyline will be in your opening hand and a free spell, versus 22% chance that if you get a leyline in your game, it was dead in hand (top 2 cards)If you have even a single pump spell in hand with a leyline its already effectively not just replacing itself but giving you +1 mana ramp. A hand with leyline + turn inside out is better than a hand with 2x turn inside out, even if you don't draw another pump spell all game. Its a TIO you can cast for 0 man
>>93800000Splinter Twin died for less
>>93800081Just realized that you have to pay X twice. Yeah, I'm thinking this card is unplayable dogshit.
>>93800089>4 mana do nothingsorry couldn't hear you over the sound of my deck sacrificing all its creatures for free and getting them back, on the same turn I cast this for x=0
>>93800096>You can't win on T2>He posts, as the entire thread is spamming turn 2 wins
>>93800090based mysanthropy poster
>>93800122>bolt yourself every time you do soIf each of your sacrifices isn't getting you more value than a bolt, why bother?
>>93800079most played week 1 deck
>>93800109>A hand with leyline + turn inside out is better than a hand with 2x turn inside out, even if you don't draw another pump spell all game. Its a TIO you can cast for 0 manExtremely worth note that there are many 1-land hand setups that are worth keeping with Leyline.Without it you would pretty much never keep a 1-lander.
>>93800123Please enlighten me then with what combination of cards you win T2?
>>93800160Read the thread, my brother in retardation.
>>93800122So you're playing this on turn 4. You presumably played a sac outlet on turn 3. What did you play on turn 1 and 2 that was worth bolting yourself for? Because rdw is regularly winning on turn 3, so I hope you had interaction.
>4 cacophony scamp>4 heartfire hero>4 monastery swiftspear>4 slickshot showoff>4 monstrous rage>4 turn inside out>4 felonious rage>4 callous sell-sword>4 leyline of resonanceI'm saving 4 slots for whatever busted fucking piece of shit red 1 drop creature they haven't spoiled yet
>>93799939I just realized that the ceiling on this is WAY higher than it looks at first because you can start the game with more than one
>>93800173>cast OR COPY an instant or sorcery spellAdd in white and bring in Clever Lumimancer.
>>93800173Hear me out4 rotisserie elementalbecause it would let you get a pile of free 2/2 tokens from felonious rage / turn inside out
>T1 leyline, Lumimancer>T2 pump, swing for 10, Burn Together you for 14lollmao
>>93799910BLB was such a cute set with low power level and fun stuff... And now we are getting fucking DSK aka Eldraine 3.0 what a bunch of faggots.
FUCKING LEYLINES NOT AGAIN REEEEE
>>93800211It's funny because this one is even better and more consistent than Guildpact, since it works for EVERY Pump spell and not just the Devotion/domain ones.
>>93800211>>93800220Oh, and it scales with itself rather than being dead if you draw multiples lmao.
>>93800173You'll probably have to run Shock if you're mono red for the mirror match. If you're splashing, then Snakeskin Veil or Royal Treatment.
>>93800007>00.007% chance to have 4 leylines in opener aloneNice magic wonderland scenario you have there.Even if you're saying you only need 2 Leylines in your opener, that's still only ~6%.The deck falls apart pretty quickly if you dont have the leylines and it goes longer since you will be having dead draws.Now one could argue a 6-7~% chance to instantlly win any game is good enough (although any 1 mana removal will screw you), but that doesn't include the other cards required to have in your opener, namely scamp since if you don't have it your T2 kill goes out of the window.
>>93800234>00.007% chance to have 4 leylines in opener aloneCope and seethe about the odds all you want nerd, you still lost.
Thoughts on this against Golgari Midrange? None of the creatures in that deck scare me, but Liliana fucks my shit up.Still trying to build a side for my stores standard showdown, its tonight and all the good cards i actually wanna play are sold out.
Fuck it, put it in Rakdos and add the cantrips for FREE!!!! value.
>>93800262>Thoughts on this against Golgari Midrange? None of the creatures in that deck scare me, but Liliana fucks my shit up.What colors are you in?
>>93800285Azorius Tempo. I'm digging through my bulk, and I have two sideboard slots open.
>hit you with my rotisserie elemental on turn 2>deals 13 damage>manifest 4 out of 8 of the top cards of my library>can turn one of them face-up as a scamp next turn for 1 mana
>>93800308Haste is usually the easiest way to clean up 'walkers.Syr Ginger fixes Lili pretty hard.
>>93800262That's a shit card, especially since Golgari Midrange plays Glissa and nowadays a lot of enchantment removal to fight the token decks.If you have access to green I'd play 2-3 Obstinate Baloth, those are also free wins vs discard and decent vs aggro.
>>93800316Not that anon but i always feel the need to play at least one copy of her in my sac shells.
>>93800308Sorcerous Spyglass could be a decent option, it can also name Vraska or Cottage.
>>93800270This is worse than Blazing Crescendo.
>>93800316Not anymore, my planeswalkers can sit comfortably behind their pile of blockers and tokens thanks to my one sided wrath killing all those hasty creatures of yours
Leyline, gemstone cavern, hardcast scamp, untap and dome you for 20 on t1 with spirit guide and veil of summer in hard
>>93800316>>93800335My lgs actually has these in stock, I could pick em up before the event, thank you anons.
>>93800347Swords to Plowshares your scamp T1, gg ez.
>>93800347We now have reliable t1 kills in modernWhat a time to be alive
>>93800338>"against Golgari Midrange">post a white cardok
>>93800059Genuinely I think the X is irrelevant. It's just good as a 4-drop enchantment.
>>93800368>Spirit Guide>Modern
>>93800090There's a couple humans I like the look of (the cultists, Winter and like one or two Survivors) but the rest just don't feel congruous with the plane. It's not like OTJ where the thematics are just surface-level, they actually don't feel like they mesh right at all.
>>93800375The Guide was just to protect it, the T1 kill is perfectly well in the format.
>>93800374There are better ways to reanimate your creature than bolting yourself in the face.
>>93800383Modern is 1 mana removal tribal, good luck having your scamp survive.
Speaking of 1 mana 3/3s lmao
>>93800403I like it, reminds me of a delirium Topiary Stomper.
>>93800394Bud if I win the coin flip you will not have a land in play
>>93800403a much worse deathbonnet sprout
>>93800059I will 100% force this into Pioneer devotion to black. This seems so obnoxious if you have anything on board, you basically can never lose combat and your sheoldreds and other creatures can't be easily removed because they just come back, and your opponents losing creatures means they lose 3 life. And it adds 4 devotion for Gary, not to mention how you can use it to double Gary's trigger. And if you don't have a good board you can just dump mana into it to at least make your opponent sac something.
I like the joke that the only leyline black is allowed to have is Void.
>>93800414>Exiles white card from hand
>>93800228Verge removes the last excuse NOT to splash green
>>93800336it's worse than a lot of things
>Play a creature with 2 or less Toughness>Lose the game from turn 2 afterwards if opponent has red manaAggro is unironically deadPhoenix decks keep getting better on pioneer
>>93800378The characters from off-plane look like they fit in better than the nativesLike wtf is this guy wearing
>Opponent goes first>Turn 1 Leyline of Resonance, Mountain, Cacophony Scamp, passwhat do you do?
>>93800526>Get lostGg easy.
>>93800513>sorcery speed>2 damageI hate to tell you, but this card has gotten a lot worse in the last 15 years.
>>93800513>Lose the game from turn 2 afterwards if opponent has red mana...afterwards?
>>93800526concede as i do against any red shitter that makes bullshit
>>93800537>2 mana spell
>>93799952Pic related puts us one surprisingly big step closer to a Grist-themed deck actually functioning.
>>93800550If i can't last two turns then take the defeat as unavoidable and move on. Shit happens.
>>93800553George Floyd card actually sucks, way too much work to get 3 copies in your yard, sub rate for a self-mill card, I can't justify running cache grab and that's 4 cards milled, because picklock prankster is 4 cards + a permanent/creature which counts towards squirming emergence, insidious roots, etc etcI will run 4 copies of Altanak just to be a rampant growth I can play in graveyard matters, discover/cascade combos, etc. Turn 1 fetchland, turn 2 rampant growth, its the new Greater Tanuki but way better
>>93799501And now it is shit>>93799939Not good, not bad.>>93799952>>93800553You guys member Beetlejuice?(kanatlA is shit)>>93799575regular art looks like shit globohomo slopcard is trash too>>93799592garbage parasitic card >>93799610reprint but now feature a fat dude on art>>93799621Now I m curious if wotc could not figure out how to make the colab with ghostbuster work, it looks like they really wanted to make a extra sheet with lots of movie properties, wtf>>93799651This is actually the only card I saw today that I actually like.>>93800079"different names among unlocked doors of rooms you control"This is soo counter intuitive. The whole card is a Room, but each side is a door.>>93800059shit>>93799720powercreeped doomed necro>>93799734cool>>93799754not bad>>93799764Actually good.>>93799779>not a curselame
>>93800198It's Duskmourn more powerful set than Bloomburrow? Bloomburrow had a lot of good creatures, classes are hella strong and the set enabled new archetypes like Food.
>>93800588BLB had some cool cards that boosted a few strategies but ultimately didn't break anything.DSK is blatant, unrepentant power creep with cards that are either going to completely burn out and fall flat, or buttfucking obliterate every format from Vintage to Standard.
>>93800422I think having delirium instead of 3 creatures allows for a lot more flexibility, plus being an artifact may become relevant.
>>93800079Interesting to note that this checks the win con on resolution of the ability and not as a condition of the trigger. Dunno if that makes the card better or worse, but if you have an instant speed room you can uptick that for the win out of nowhere.
>>93800173>wotc intentionally printed a consistent, playable turn 2 kill into standard>they won't print land destructionWhat did they mean by this?
>>93799939>keep an all-in hand>lose to one removal spellCome on.
>>93800667>Keep a slow hand>Lose to THE NUT instantaneouslyCome on.
>>93800403Gnarlwood Dryad 2.0
>>93800646I think the opposite way, most graveyard decks care about stacking mass creatures in there instead of having a mix of cards, its a reason delirium has been historically badit takes truly broken insane stuff like "I pay 4 mana and my land becomes omniscience LOL" for delirium to be good
Leyline of Resonance theme songhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjIwmJMqrco>I GO HARD IN THE MORNING>HARD LIKE MORNING WOOD IN THE MORNING
>>93800672Don't be bad at the game. If you know someone can kill you immediately you should pack answers.
>>93800079Would this work on it's own if you turned it into a creature and equipped Spy Kit?
>>93800688how do you know in bo1?
>garbage parasitic cardtrue, after duskmourn you won't be allowed to have a prime number of lands in play
>>93800698You can play removal in your main deck.
>show up with an alter of Say Its Name with george floyd
>>93800705so you are saying that you just DON'T keep a slow hand?
>>93800659Willy Wonka? Walter White?
>>93800711>Bro just mull to literally every time you don't have 1 mana removal in hand.lmfao sounds good to me!
>>93800711>keep slow hands when's aggro is known to be fast>Are you sure you don't want the EDH thread?
>>93800513it doesnt exile, youre dead if you play this card agaist aggro
>>93800717https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb17uaaldwM
>>93800742It's also a sorcery, the only thing you're killing with this is bunny tokens that already triggered a bunch of ETB effects.
>>93800688retard
okay here's my duskmourne standard deck plan>4 disfigure>4 cut down>4 dead weight>4 rat out>4 whisper of the dross>4 go for the throat>4 anoint with affliction>4 sheoldred>4 aclazotz
>>93800778Snakeskin Veil, GG
>>93800693Room isn't a creature type, but if you were to turn it into a creature that's still an Enchantment - Room, that should work? We'd need a ruling on if a Room permanent still has doors when it's a creature.
>>93799929These are Pioneer playable, right? A bit more awkward than Pathways because if you really need the second color you might not have the land type but they play very well with Shocklands.
>>93800778>loses to double striking bird with 2 green mana uplol
>>93800211I cast unwanted remake.
>>93800693>>93800805I'm gonna assume the wording of it means that each door has its own associated name, so Spy Kit would not work. Spy Kit just grants those names to the whole thing, not to the doors themselves. I could be wrong though. It being a creature or not wouldn't matter.
>>93800860>Leaving a creature behind>For actual rdw>For rdw with leyline on fieldIts joever anon.
>>93800860You're just trading 1:1 with a pump spell and putting them 1 mana behind on tempo. They have the same number of creatures on board so further pump spells aren't dead in hand>they pay 1 mana and flip the cacophony scamp and kill you in 1 hit
Can't tell if this is impostor syndrome or an Among Us joke.
Also the blue Leyline. Arcane Adaptation but a Leyline is neat, I guess?
>get a 3/2 and counter a spell, putting you up on tempo and threat>they get a 2/2, guaranteeing it can block the 3/2meh
>>93800741unlike in coom n' turd where you always have it, in real world it's not so believe it or notalso >>93800724
>>93800888It's an among us joke.
>>93800904I mean I guess charitably it's more a reference to The Thing.
>>93800860>actually zero for oneing you are self
>>93800888>>93800898What the fuck is wrong with the flavor on all these fears? Like how does this represent a fear of imposters from a gameplay perspective?
>>93800896Can I choose Locus and make my manlands pump up cloudpost?
>>93800922Not a creature type, dingus.
>>93800870>>93800882>>93800908>bro trust us this deck that didn't top anything is totally brokenSure, now go play real magic and stop posting clip of you having your magical christmas land hand in unranked arena bo1.
Here's your Soul Warden reprint bro
>>93800932I just wasn't sure if you could name types not on the official list or whatever
>>93800896Ninjabros?
>>93800898It's still good, since you can just cast it as a 3/2 flash if you have nothing else to do.And basically cancel is on rate for standard.
>>93800938>bro trust us this deck that didn't top anything is totally broken"Ha! Your deck that isn't even fucking legal yet hasn't topped any tournaments! Checkmate!"
>>93800920I guess the idea is "oh no, that spell is an impostor, it's just a 2/2 thing instead", but it doesn't come across well.
>>93800938>Didn't top anythingThis post will age really badly lmao, see you in a few days when the leyline is actually playable faggot
>>93800953Oh I didn't even think of thatThere might be a neat tempo or aggro deck with new Kaito
>>93800948cool thanks, i like it
>>93800950You can only name a type that's been printed or referenced on a legal card, is the main thing.
Standard having an actual viable T2 kill now is absurd.
>>93800938or just play a real 1 cmc removal spell, you know? of course you don't. you are blinded with rage
>Every colour will end with three leyline spell types>Black still has only oneJustify this.
>>93800659based. I will exclusively call the Altanak "Joe Hendry" from now on.
>>93800938You know RDW is topping standard tournaments right now
>>93800948>W____ card, B____ character
>>93800980Racism
>>93800986stop noticing things
>>93800976>now
>>93800996The other Leyline one felt a bit too specific, but the new one feels just a little more doable.
>>93800979> you are blinded I'm not the one that's think their deck that fold to cut down is totally the new top meta deck that will break standard.
>>93800983>1,9% meta sharePlay something that isn't arena bo1
>>93800996>>93801003Very much so.Guildpact combo, the pump spells you had to play alongside it were close to dead cards without Guildpact, and multiple Guildpacts didn't scale with itself. The new Leyline is the guildpact combo but with fewer downsides and more options.
>>93801020Your own photo shows it's at least 4.5%.
>>93801006the white removal you posted is just bad no matter what you play against, bro
We're in a catch twenty two Either Red dominates the meta with a viable turn 1-2 kill and the game is fuckedOrEven with a viable turn 1-2 kill, red still can't claim a big share of the meta, and the game is also fucked
>>93801020>"Ha! This deck that currently doesn't have access to the new cards, which aren't fucking legal yet, is only actually competitive and seeing real play! Checkmate!">(please ignore the 10.1% meta share of the gruul version)
Speaking of Soul Warden reprints, how are your custom sets going?
>>93801020If they splash green to use snakeskin veil and innkeeper's talent its still RDW
Even better that the new checklands and pedolands enable fast decks
>>93801006Nta but scamp is just the power floor on resonance, not the ceiling. It will fuck up standard and is likely to be disruptive elsewhere.
>>93801086and its a leyline so it will enable degenerate combos in every color deck for its whole standard rotation
>>93801086>It will fuck up standard and is likely to be disruptive elsewhere.It is legitimately the type of card that has potential in Vintage. No idea what kind of potential, but effects like this FOR FREEEE!!!! could make impacts in hard hitting eternal formats.Probably won't, but the fact that it is in that tier of cards at all is ridiculous.
>>93801020theres six flavors of the same deck right there
>>93801099turn 1 artifact land memnite kuldotha rebirth
>>93801138Doesn't work, has to target.This works though.
>>93801099I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any potential in vintage, the power level discrepancy between what we do in vintage and targeting your creatures with stuff is way too highit might do something funny in modern or legacy but definitely not vintage
>>93801138Rebirth doesn't target, it won't be copied.
>>93801166Demolition only works if you have two targets, or the copy will fizzle since its target will have been destroyed by the first cast.
>>93801169>I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any potential in vintage, the power level discrepancy between what we do in vintage and targeting your creatures with stuff is way too highAll depends on what you're hitting your own creatures with. The thing about Vintage is that the card pool is so wide that sometimes weird shit just works. Especially when it's FOR FREE!!!!.Look no further than Paradoxical Outcome.for an example of that.
>>93801181Yes, that's why Memnite was mentioned in the post replied to.
>>93801169Vintage has flash so it's not totally out of question that resonance gets you some new t0 kill
>>93801182>All depends on what you're hitting your own creatures with.it's a more than that, it's what creatures you're supposed to be targeting in the context of vintage, there are no traditional aggro/pump-based decks and if we want to storm out we can play actual storm>Look no further than Paradoxical Outcome.for an example of that.PO is not a good example because vintage has been the 0 mana artifacts format since its inception, the card was basically made for vintage with how much synergy it has with one of the core aspects of the format, resonance doesn't really fit anywhere, so you'd have to build something from scratch and compare it with what we already have, which is quite literally the most powerful decks magic has to offer
>pyroclasmRip aggro in std and pio I guess.Iirc last time it was legal in Valakut/Jace standard, fun times.
>>93801257>it's a more than that, it's what creatures you're supposed to be targeting in the context of vintage, there are no traditional aggro/pump-based decks and if we want to storm out we can play actual stormProbably going to end up as Memnite/Thopter if a setup with Leyline does come to fruition.
>>93801219I'm confused to what you're saying here, flash dosn't have any interaction with resonance
>>93801264All of aggro's creatures are pumped above 2 toughness though.
>>93801274>I begin the game with leyline of resonance on the battlefield. before your first upkeep, I flash in (some busted creature) and cast (something that targets it), and then combo off and kill youLike that
>>93801269sure, but the next step is asking how that measures up in the format compared to everything else, which looking purely at how other combo decks operate and how opposing decks react, it doesn't feel very promising>>93801307you can't target you flash creature if you don't pay the 2 generic mana, it goes directly to the graveyard before you can respond
>>93801307>>93801269You can already flash worldspine wurm for three 5/5s, I don't see how six 1/1 are better than that.
>>93801342>if you don't pay the 2 generic manathe cost minus the 2 generic mana*
>>93801086Yeah like Leyline of the guildpact who, according to this general, was supposed to break every format under the sun. Still waiting for the ban.
>>93801364Leyline of the Guildpact was a big player in modern until MH3 powercrept it.
>>93800059As usual sequel is worse than original.
>>93800403It mills and taps for the priest, worth a try at least.
>>93800515look up what m jackson was wearing from the video for thriller and you'll see it real quick.
>>93801364this is simply a dishonest post lmao
>>93801364>Yeah like Leyline of the guildpact who, according to this general, was supposed to break every format under the sun. Still waiting for the ban.Leyline, Forest, L.elves into Nykthos is still the best opening play in all of Pioneer other than the "only happens if you stack your deck" turn 2 Lotus Field wins.
This card perfectly embodies all the problems with modern card design>Answers one extremely specific type of thing that is otherwise impossible to interact with>Resolving means a total blowout against that one thing>Does nothing otherwise
>>93800515Maro apparently said Omenpaths pulling in things from all over is the reason, but that's super handwavey. Like, Undead Sprinter is a STRETCH, but, hey, he's long-dead, so you could justify it well enough. The Cheerleader is just a fucking Cheerleader. She's not even, like, a "Duskmourn survivor who resembles a cheerleader" in some way. You could easily pull some sort of gag with, like, a survivor emulating cheerleading, thinking it's some long-lost fighting style, instead of it just being a cheerleader from, presumably, another 80s plane that we don't know of. Not ALL of the survivors have this issue, Veteran Survivor looks 'fine', his outfit at least looks somewhat scrapped-together. But so many of them are just "basically an 80s movie character, sometimes with some extra magitech thing on them". The "80s horror movie" tropes are really what's dragging this plane down, and even then only for the survivors. They don't really seem to fit with what the plane is STATED to be in-lore or in-marketing, and they don't fit with the general rest of the vibe of the setting. They don't seem like desperate scavengers that could fit the roles of 80s horror movie characters, they seem like they were just plucked right from an 80s movie.
>>93801642's why it was never played before MH3
>>93801642this game NEEDS hate pieces. imagine if there weren't cards like pithing needle or vexing bauble or leyline of the void
>>93801642funniest part is that this was released when the energy decks were rotating out of standard and pioneer wasnt a thingso it literally saw zero play for 5 years until now
>>93801668>You could easily pull some sort of gag with, like, a survivor emulating cheerleading, thinking it's some long-lost fighting styleSorry, the writers at WotC only know how to write in excuses, handwaves and contrivances. Please, we are a small indie company and can't afford better writers, cut us some slack.
>>93801668Yeah I don't mind Veteran Survivor. It's a good mix of clearly-influenced-by the source material, but not blatant uncreative, derivative trash. Very tactful. Great work from Kai there, the overall composition is fairly nice too.I mean, the source material of "80s" in some shitty Stranger Things ripoff five years too late is absolute fucking vomit-inducing garbage, but hey. Kai did a good job with it.
>>93801738Hate pieces aren't the same as silver bullets that answer exactly one possible thing that is otherwise impossible to answer in any way.
How did anons react to this?
>>93801781It's a shit do-nothing pile of t rash that costs way too much and has too many pips to play even if it was good. It's also just an ugly, inelegant design with a cringe name.
>>93801747Writing experience at WotC>You have no creative agency at all. If you are given absolute slop you aren't allowed to change it or even ask for it to be changed.>You are paid an absolute pittance>You are given ridiculous deadlines>They might not even pay you that miniscule amount you were owed in the first placeReminder Brandon Sanderson wrote Children of the Nameless as a charity project for $0, and WotC STILL couldn't stop themselves from screwing him over by turning around and selling it for profit.
>>93800059Anon's was better
>>93801781I like it.
>>93799910I can't believe Hearse and in some decks even Cauldron are fucking obsolete already by powercreep
>>93799952If roots didnt make any dredge tactic a thing dredge is a dead archetype. Dwi, anon.
>>93801815>flavor textIt's kino, ship it
>>93801781Powerful effect, but it seems slow and expensive for this very aggressive meta.
>>93801781there's a post about it with 9 replies, are you blind
>>93801830My Skeletons brew likes htis at least.>No Skeletons in the setbooooooooooooooo
>>93801781>see the trope theyre doing here is that sequels are always shittier than the originals
>>93801830>ay so we saw reanimator wuz rapin legacy and shit>so anyways no more of dat okay?
>>93801830That stupid payoff ability is gonna win more games than it has any right to. Or people will keep forgetting about it and lose games they could've won if they'd used it.
>>93801851Every Undead is a zombie unless they want it to be sexy, then they make it a vampire. They only make skeletons if they set out specifically to make skeletons.
I want more clowns.
>>93801894Clown fucker
>>93801851>>93801887we had a cool vampire tribal deck and they destroyed it, it's time to accept they will only allow shit tribals like merkfolks, spirits, humans or elves.skeletons, werewolves, vampires, zombies and demons are dead and will never recieve the support they deserve.
>>93801894We already have too many evil clown and circus cards. That trend was played out in the 90s and it hasn't gotten any better since then.
>>93801887Do NOT post Ebondeath in my presence.It not being a Skeleton has me so fucking triggerd.Seething.Raging, even.
>>93801894based
>>93801894Amen.Jeskai clown tribal when.
>>93800907this was MTG's tribute to The Thinghttps://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-3-locked-tower-2022-08-12
>>93800898>>93800888>Ertai at home>doesn't even trigger Masterminddraft card
>>93801929Rakdos Vampires wasn't a cool vampire tribal deck. It was just generic Rakdos shell with a planeswalker cheating out the first actually good vampire fatty. The only other vampires in the deck were Bloodtithe Harvesters because Rakdos was already running them anyway. It's like calling Boros Energy a cool Cat tribal deck because flip Ajani incidentally cares about Cats.
>>93801047, and druid, and PYP, and...
>ub aggro gaining popularity in legacy lately>it's just a frog + bowmaster pile
>>93801830god this is so close to being a scrabbling claws level enabler for crime decksturn 1 ghost vacuum, turn 2 go for the throat, turn 3 freestrider lookoutthe shame is that you can't commit a crime if there's nothing in the opponents graveyard. Same issue as hearse, except this is 1 mana cheaper so it curves so much more smoothly
>>93801830I won't run this card, but I'm glad that its existence means I won't have to
>>93801943Do you think condensing zombies, vampires, and skeletons into "undead" like they did for Outlaw would be too powerful?
>>93801989druid is a trap card, they should cut it even in gruullots of gruul aggro lists already have it down to 2 copies, but it should be 0 copies frenzy, 0 copies druidfuck card advantage, you're a balls to the wall aggro deck you are winning on turn 3-4 or they will stabilize and answer every threat you play. Eating sunfall -> sunfall -> sunfall for 3 consecutive turns isn't answered by playing more non-hasty creatures
>>93801773It also hoses infect, so you're wrong.
>>93802035Ew, gross, fuck off,. Tribe batches are a design abomination.
>>93801894based deliver more circus killers
>>93802037its just a 2 mana wall vs infect
>>93801830>and in some decks even Cauldron are fucking obsolete already by powercreepnot reallyif you're running cauldron fairly, it's already way worse than hearse or soul-guide lanternif you're running a dedicated cauldron deck, you're never switching to ghost vacuumcauldron and vacuum will co-exist nicely
>>93802037Suncleanser does nothing against infect
>>93800006The card names are fairly generic. There could be "verges" on other planes. "Floodfarm","Gloomlake",etc. are also decently universal, broadly speaking.
>>93802021why?
>>93802093it targets itself, making a creature that can block any amount of infect damage
>>93802093So you were just retarded all along.
>>93802107>Block
>>93798647Great video bro. Keep up.The voiceover reminds me of Codex Pajeet 2 lol.
>>93798696Crovax is back?
>>93802119You can't target yourself with Suncleanser, targeting the infect creatures does nothing, and targeting your own creatures in order to resist the -1/-1 counters isn't really the most proactive answer to Infect.
Why did Infect die off so hard anyway?
>>93802249Evoke elementals, just like literally every creature deck.
>>93802262Grief and Fury are gone. Is Solitude holding the fort by itself now?
>>93802271It can, if any creature deck ever shows its face again.
pyroclasm in pioneer lmfao aggrobabs got too cocky after amalia bans
>give us the best 2 mana sweeper>give us the best 3 mana sweeper>give us a deck of 1 mana threats that kill you on turn 2the fucking arms race in action
>>93800986all the angels are black now, i really dont understand it
>>93802356>Play sweepers or removal.dek or get raped by aggro on turn 2/3Standard's lookin' so fucking revitalized bros
Control is deadAggro is deadThe age of Midrange is here
>>93802249it had all the weaknesses of hammertime and scales without much of the benefits except for maybe having some faster kill potential when the stars aligned correctly and being able to splash efficiently for more interactionpeople who really liked infect kept playing it but they were a small minority>>93802271it's not solitude, it's the entire landscape of the format: galvanic discharge, orcish bowmasters, fatal push, wrath of the skies etcwe are in format where killing 1 and 2 mana creatures is very necessary because if you don't, they just get out of hand and you lose>>93802302energy is a creature deck and it makes up like 30% of the meta, you can play creatures, they just have to be either energy related or very big to dodge popular removal
>>93802356>>93802386>Standard's lookin' so fucking revitalized brosCAN'T WAIT FOR THE FIVE YEAR ROTATION
I liked Herald Storm combo so much but nowadays makes no sense play it when you can just buff a mouse to deal 20 damage in turn 3 and they keep pushing that shit.
>>93802390>Meathook Massacre II turns out to be playable because it's the only way to get ahead in the midrange vs midrange grindfest
>>93802404Foundations is gonna be such a shitshow. This stupid fucking "We have to minimize rotation as much as possible" mindset has been a fucking disaster for Standard. No one's gonna play Standard when it's just as stagnant as Pioneer and somehow just as expensive.
>>93802390I'm playing """""""""""""""midrange"""""""""""" in standard alreadyand red still got me down to 4 life last game before I stabilized what a fucking joke
>>93802466
>>93802466Should just be "A card with mana cost 1UB" lol
>>93799929Seems neat. Certainly makes those surveil lands have more value.
>"Hey boss, I'm gonna go refactor our legacy systems for no reason."
>>93802466Woah anon. That is a bit broken dontcha think?
>>93802466>failedanon, you can't fail something that you didn't even do in the first place
>>93802466When Fear of Failed Playtests enters the battlefield or attacks or becomes the target of a spell or ability, draw a card, then you may put a land from your hand onto the battlefield. Up to one target creature becomes a 3/3 green elk.
>>93800513didnt expect to see a reprint from this far back.
everything having haste or being able to be given haste by lands has absolutely ruined Magic The Gathering. The game as a whole is totally unplayable.
>>93802571>Up to one target creature *or artifact* becomes a 3/3 green elk.Can't forget that Oko could hit artifacts too.
New magic has a lot of niggers in the art now
>One week before finalizing>Fear of Failed Playtests gets reworked from feedback>No we didn't playtest this new version we shipped out
>>93802699Say It's Name
Rooms are just enchantments with activated abilities.Prove me wrong.
>>93802780This wouldn't be so expensive if they didn't try to turn unlocking rooms into a wincon
>>93802780Man its a good thing there is no rooms that get out of hand with this ghostly keybearer card.
>>93802780>>93802800>"WoOOOOoOOoOooOOOOoo, I'm opening doors!"nuMagic flavor, everybody
>>93802780That's so swingy, if it connects you can potentially cheat on 8 mana (from the ones we've seen), or none at all.
>>93802571Don't forget to gain your three life
>>93802810Okay, I assume that these are like other split cards and the CMC in various zones is both halves combined which was wotc's bandaid fix to cheating split cards outBut does that mean this is an 11 cmc permanent for just 3 mana, or do I not get the other half to be considered on the field for such things until I pay it?If I cheat this in without paying, do I pick which side it enters as?Do I get 3 devotion to black from just playing the left side, or only one?
>>93802899I would assume it's the combined CMC in all zones except the battlefield, where it's CMC reflects its current unlocked state. That is, you cast Funeral Room and it's 3 mana. Then you unlock Awakening Hall and now it's 11 mana. If it gets blinked/reanimated, then both rooms are locked and it's 0 mana.
>>93802840Okay I took it all into accountWhat would simic bros have to say about this finished product?
>>93800338>Sorcery
>>93802964Maybe>Valiant - WheneverHeartspear Scamp becomes the target of a spell or ability you control, put a +1/+1 counter on it, then it deals damage equal to its power to any target. This ability only triggers twice each turn.
>>93802964>>93802981>Whenever Heartspear Scamp becomes the target of a spell or ability you control for the first time each turn, if it's the first time you've cast a spell that targets ~ this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it, then it deals damage equal to its power to any target. This ability only triggers twice each turn.go to stick to the modern wording.
>>93802899>>93802948While on the battlefield, a Room card has the characteristics of its unlocked doors. For example, if only Porcelain Gallery is unlocked, the permanent's mana value is 6. If both doors are unlocked, the permanent's mana value is 8. Similarly, if both doors are unlocked, the permanent has two names. In your library, graveyard, and hand, a Room card has the combined mana value of both of its halves and both of its names. For example, if an effect allowed you to search your library for a card with mana value 3 or less, you couldn't find Dollmaker's Shop // Porcelain Gallery, even though Dollmaker's Shop has a mana cost of 1W, because the mana value of the whole card is 8.also>if you get a room onto the battlefield without unlocking it (ie reanimate it), since both sides are locked, it has no characteristics. It is a typeless permanent with no mana value, and has the special action to let you pay to unlock doorsvery intuitive design amirite
>>93802991But why would it trigger twice if the spell only cares about the first time you cast a spell? The second trigger would do nothing.
>>93803007Don't ask me, it's just how we do things at Wizards.
>>93802899>>93802948The characteristics of a locked half of a Room don't exist on the battlefield, functionally. The name isn't there, the cost isn't, etc. If a Room enters the battlefield without either side being cast, it enters as a nameless enchantment with no abilities except to unlock its respective doors.
>>93803012Oh, my bad, it's not even an enchantment, that part feels wonky.Thanks >>93803000
>>93803000>no characteristics, typless permanent with no mana value, special action to unlock doorsKind of useful I guess for some weird edge case where both doors being locked means you can setup a bunch of doors safely from enchantment removal.
If you don't want to unlock any of its doors, can you put a room into play for free?
>>93803012>>93803017yeah that's the truly crazy partit becomes a nameless typeless permanent with no mana cost. It has no abilities, but the room costs can still be paid as a special actionand since its just an enchantment in other zones you can pretty easily cheat it into play as a "literally nothing"
>>93803017Actually, nothing in the mechanics article says that it would be typeless. Where'd that come from? All I'm seeing from Tabak is that copying it gets a bit wonky, because it's kinda like Cases where the designation of which side is unlocked sticks on a permanent, so if a permanent copies one Room, unlocks the left side, and then copies ANOTHER Room, it'll have that left side unlocked for free.
>>93803032No, there's no function to cast them like that. They must be cast if you want to play them.
>>93803060His notes said:>While on the battlefield, a Room card has the characteristics of its unlocked doorsIf you cast Funeral Room it enters as a 3 mana enchantment - room named Funeral Room. If you cast it as Awakening Hall it enters as an 8 mana enchantment - room, named Awakening Hall. When you unlock both sides, its an 11 mana enchantment - room named both "Funeral Room" and "Awakening Hall", it now has 2 namesbut if neither side is unlocked, it has the characteristics of neither side. Ergo it has no name, no mana cost, no types, no abilities.
>>93803105I wasn't sure it being a Room Enchantment was something that was just true about the card regardless of locked/unlocked statuses, is the thing. I haven't seen anything to indicate that, admittedly, but that just feels more correct to me.
>>93803105>If you cast Funeral Room it enters as a 3 mana enchantment - room named Funeral Room. If you cast it as Awakening Hall it enters as an 8 mana enchantment - room, named Awakening Hall. When you unlock both sides, its an 11 mana enchantment - room named both "Funeral Room" and "Awakening Hall", it now has 2 namesThis all sounds like a bunch of fucking stupid ass bullshit that has no place in MTG..Does it have two names when it's not on the battlefield?What do I name with Stone Brain if I want to get rid of one?Retards came up with this idea.
OKAY BUT WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS IF I FLICKER A ROOM
>>93802704Zamn that card is almost playable.
>>93803105This has to be some of the worst text I have ever read for an mtg card>>93803131You get NOTHING. You LOSE. GOOD DAY SIR.
>>93803123All split cards have two names already. You can name either name.
>>93803123>Does it have two names when it's not on the battlefield?yes>What do I name with Stone Brain if I want to get rid of one?either name
>>93803105>>93803120Ah, I'm right, actually, it remains a Room and an Enchantment regardless, according to Maro at least, who I presume asked a rules person.
>>93803123>What do I name with Stone Brain if I want to get rid of one?Borborygmos.
>>93803187So basically shit to have both doors be locked but not shit if your plan is to then unlock a bunch of cheap doors for the "you win the game" condition.
>>93803131a cheeky flicker on a cheap room to maxx unlock the pricey side on turn 3?
>>93803234Sure, but I imagine it's easier to just... Cast those normally at that point. You're still paying the costs, unless you use that Keybearer, which is just one thing. I'm sure there'll be another alternate way to unlock doors somewhere, but who knows, maybe the Keybearer will be it.
>>93803187>no name and is colorlessHow nobody realized how fucking shit this idea was is beyond me. It's absolute garbage.They're literally just enchantments with high-cost activated abilities."Unlock" could have literally just been an enchantment version of monstrous and would come with none of this trashfire, broken rules baggage.
>>93799966It doesn't need anything else
Why are you guys saying rooms are the new gates? You have to actually pay mana for them, you can't tutor them with ramp, and they're far easier to remove.
>>93803256I'm thinking more so you somehow brought multiple of these room cards back from the graveyard
>>93803263Your way doesn't let people play the more expensive side first.
>mocking bird in white humansgenius
>>93803273
Wa la, I fixed your stupid fucking idea you fucking retarded failures at game design with no skill, no talent and no ability to realize your ideas are fucking shit and easily done in a simpler and more elegant way.
>>93803263They wanted you to be able to cast either side first, like a class that lets you choose the order of the levels. It's not a bad concept per se, it's just kinda funky to implement in practice.
>>93803283>Your way doesn't let people play the more expensive side first.So what? Who fucking cares? You're never doing that anyway, and half the time you are (You won't) you're just going to slam it late game when you can unlock both sides immediately.
>>93803297Sorry anon but its missing that certainje ne sais quoi
Are you guys just retarded Rooms are like the only thing in this set that seems alright.
>>93803307>They wanted you to be able to cast either side firstIT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THEY WANTED IF WHAT THEY WANTED IS A BAD IDEAI DO NOT CARE IF THEY WANTED TO DO A BAD IDEA, THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE REALIZED IT IS A BAD IDEA AND NOT DONE IT
>>93803273Because of the one room that has a "you win the game if you have so many different named rooms unlocked". That different names thing is reminiscent of Maze's End.
>>93803297I suppose you could make it [Enchantment - Room] if they really wanted to have a named mechanic, but I wholly support this change.
>>93803297This is way worse
>>93803320I don't think it's a bad idea. It's arguably a better idea than fucking MDFCs.
>>93803311(Forgot my image.)
>>93803319That's not a sentence in support of Rooms, that's an indictment of the rest of the set.
>>93803293>>93803324Yeah I saw that but it's not like people call this or Hedron Alignment gates.
>>93803319>Are you guys just retarded Rooms are like the only thing in this set that seems alright.>Flicker a room and it becomes a colorless brick>Ungodly rules retardation with Pithing Needle style effects and double-named permanents. (If one side has an activated ability, can I activate it if Pithing Needle has named the other side? Just as an example.)>It's literally just Monstrous but for enchantments, executed in the most convoluted, inelegant, rube goldbergian way possible.They're absolute god damned abominations.
>>93803320your mom birthed you even though it was a bad idea
>>93803338>I don't think it's a bad idea.Great, go work for WotC and be at home with the rest of your retarded brethren.
>>93803283>Your way doesn't let people play the more expensive side first.Will only ever happen in commander
>>93803330How?
>>93803297Being forced to cast one particular "level" first is missing the entire point. What you made is a Class with a single level.
>>93803351
>>93803345because room is a subtype like gates was?retard
>>93803360>Being forced to cast one particular "level" first is missing the entire point.AND THAT IS A GOOD THING.If the "Entire point" is to be degenerate, broken garbage where half the rules have to be MacGuyvered so the idea even fucking works, THEN IT MISSING THAT POINT IS A DESIGN SUCCESS.
EDH player: "Oh boy I can't wait to play my Gate Door wincon deck."
>>93803339what card was this
>>93803347>Flicker a room and it becomes a colorless brickNo issue with this. There's plenty of stuff that has weird interactions, it doesn't break the game.>If one side has an activated ability, can I activate it if Pithing Needle has named the other side? Just as an example.If the other side is unlocked, then no you can't because it has both names. If it's locked, then yes.>It's literally just Monstrous but for enchantmentsIt's literally split cards combined with MDFCs.
>>93803319you can pithing needle a room with at least one unlocked door but you can't pithing needle a room that has no unlocked doorspeople keep saying the set needs more clowns but clearly the set designers have that angle COVERED
>>93803380You're retarded, please never post again.
Anyone have ways to remove enchantments playing grixis in standard right now?
>>93803347>>It's literally just Monstrous but for enchantmentsYou keep saying that and it keeps being wrong
>>93803389>No issue with this. There's plenty of stuff that has weird interactions, it doesn't break the game.It should be avoided either way. Bad design should be avoided, it doesn't matter whether or not the bad design breaks anything, it is still bad and should not be defended, should not be justified, and you should not be running cover for the idiots who thought of it.>If the other side is unlocked, then no you can't because it has both names. If it's locked, then yes.See, that's retarded. As soon as you see an interaction like that in your design idea, you should set your idea on fire and go back to the drawing board.>It's literally split cards combined with MDFCs.I groan.
>>93803386
>>93803309>>93803357Have you guys never seen people play the more expensive side of a split card? What the fuck are you talking about?
>>93803353>>93803380>it's retarded because... IT JUST IS, OKAY?!I don't think it's a particularly elegant implementation, but it really doesn't warrant this level of sperging. Were you this mad when they designed Morph?
>>93803422>Have you guys never seen people play the more expensive side of a split card? What the fuck are you talking about?MDFCs are an abomination and split cards are all nonpermanent spells for a GOOD reason.
I half expect a sorcery that is>Key to Door>U>Sorcery>Unlock door of target permanent
>>93803431There's already that one creature that unlocks a door when it deals damage
>>93803410Sure, let's get rid of auras because returning them from the battlefield has weird interactions. Also no double faced cards, can't have them getting flickered. Split cards are gone too. Kicker and X cards changing the cmc? Too complicated for anon, it's fucking gone. Creature tokens are gone, because effects that name a card can't name them despite having a name.
>>93803403It amazes me how many people here seem to miss that rooms can be cast with either side open, especially with how they've even said that some rooms are designed so that it can be better to open the expensive side before the cheap side, because the expensive side improves the cheap side's effect in some way. They're like MDFCs that you can play the other side of at a later time, not like classes, monstrous, etc, where you get one specific effect first then a different effect later on. It gives them some added versatility later on where you might just want the expensive side and don't need the cheap side anymore, or in some cases, want to trigger the cheap side after the expensive one. It's honestly amazing just how little the people here understand about a game they dedicate so much time to getting mad about.
So Rooms have to sit on the field oriented like this, right? The natural inclination is to put it in tapped, but you can't tap it for no reason, especially when we have cards that can turn them into creatures.Actually, is a Room two different creatures with Opalesence effects in play?
>>93803425>>it's retarded because... IT JUST IS, OKAY?!fuck off you disengenuous sycophantic cocksucker, I have posted several explicit reasons directly elaboration on why it is a bad idea, and I will not allow you to pretend your way into defending the retards in charge of designing for this game.>A permanent having the characteristics of two cards is contrary to MTG's rules.>It adds an extreme amount of complexity to accomplish effectively nothing.>It is yet another card type that empowers broken CMC synergies like Cascade, which is a design space that ought to be avoided at all costs whenever possible.>Comes with a slew of jury-rigged jank rules baggage with flickering, Opalescence-style effects, the list goes on.>Introduces a new special action into the game that dodges all previous hate pieces and interactions, effectively parasitic. (Yet another in the long line in the hate piece arms race.)Now fuck off.
>>93803446>Sure, let's get rid of auras because returning them from the battlefield has weird interactions.Touching legacy systems is rarely a good idea, but I agree that finding a better implementation of Aura-like cards (The Soulbound framework but on an Enchantment would be ideal, I think) would improve the overall state of Auras.>Also no double faced cardsCorrect. Yes. Exactly. They are awful and shit>Split cards are gone tooSlits are the least awful of the bunch, but I would prefer just regular "choose one" templating, or the Lorwyn Dawnglow Infusion cycle templating for such things, if given the option.> Kicker and X cards changing the cmc? Too complicated for anon, it's fucking gone.Lmfao now you're just being a seething, rambling retard.>Creature tokens are gone, because effects that name a card can't name them despite having a name.Additional game objects are also pretty bad, yeah. I don't mind tokens as a whole, but if recent token bloat design has been a sign of anything, it's that having to carry around 100 extra game objects in addition to your deck is fucking awful.
>>93803425>Were you this mad when they designed Morph?nta but yeah, kindarooms are bad design, end of story
>>93803469>>Introduces a new special action into the game that dodges all previous hate pieces and interactions, effectively parasitic. (Yet another in the long line in the hate piece arms race.)It's an enchantment. Use enchantment removal.
>>93803502Irrelevant non-sequitur. Energy comes from creatures sometimes, just use creature removal right?
>I turn my room into a creature>I mutate another room onto itproblem?
>>93803508No, that's fine (assuming you have other cards that let you do those effects). Continue on.
>>93803297> I fixed your stupid fucking idea you fucking retarded failures at game design with no skill, no talent [etc.]I think they just wanted to have an excuse to make split enchantments that share art with each other, quality be damned.
BEHOLDBLESSED PERFECTION
>>93803297Sorry anon, creature tokens are bad design. Artifact creatures are bad design too. Not having any marker to avoid memory issues is bad design as well.
>>93803469>A permanent having the characteristics of two cards is contrary to MTG's rules.Split cards were introduced over 20 years ago.>It adds an extreme amount of complexity to accomplish effectively nothing.Vacuous statement. Everyone gets what they're trying to accomplish and, in normal gameplay, it's reasonably intuitive.>It is yet another card type that empowers broken CMC synergies like Cascade, which is a design space that ought to be avoided at all costs whenever possible.Fair enough, but maybe that's more of a symptom of Cascade being fucking broken and retarded instead?>Comes with a slew of jury-rigged jank rules baggage with flickering, Opalescence-style effects, the list goes on.Again, there's been worse. Most of it's relatively intuitive if you're already familiar with split card rulings.>Introduces a new special action into the game that dodges all previous hate pieces and interactions, effectively parasitic. (Yet another in the long line in the hate piece arms race.)This is fair enough, though I think you're being overdramatic.
>>93803557I've seen some shit
>>93800948
>>93803557What's the issue here? You could already do this with sagas and classes and other weird enchantments. What exactly is bad about this?
>>93803557Is it mutated onto a 4/4, a 3/3, or a 7/7? If a Room is a creature, is it two creatures or 1? Do its stats change as you unlock it? If I Flicker that room, does it become a 0/0 and die? Do you have to turn it the right way up and then turn it back sideways to attack, or do you start sideways and "tap" it up longways to attack?
>>93803575>Split cards were introduced over 20 years ago.A PERMANENT.P E R M A N E N T.PERMANENT.>Vacuous statement.Not an argument.>Fair enough, but maybe that's more of a symptom of Cascade being fucking broken and retarded instead?No, it's both. Cards with CMC cheating interact strangely with many different effects, Cascade is just the worst among them.>Again, there's been worse.I don't care if some things are more retarded than the current retardation. That does not negate how retarded these are. That some things are even worse is an insult to WotC, not a defense of the shitpile that is Rooms.>though I think you're being overdramatic.No amount of drama is enough to fully encapsulate how shit the people currently in charge of MTG are at designing for MTG.
>>93803557Okay, hold on, if I have a room that's fully locked (say I flickered it) and I have a Starfield of Nyx making it into a creature, then it's a 0/0 since it has no mana value, right? Then it would die as a state based action before I could unlock it, right?
>>93803575>reasonably intuitivewhat the FUCK is "reasonably intuitive" about a card type that conditionally ignores all common sense to sometimes have no name and no CMC, but only on the battlefield SOMETIMES? do we even have a templated version of the rules text for these cards yet?
>>93803605>Is it mutated onto a 4/4, a 3/3, or a 7/7? If a Room is a creature, is it two creatures or 1? Do its stats change as you unlock it? If I Flicker that room, does it become a 0/0 and die? Do you have to turn it the right way up and then turn it back sideways to attack, or do you start sideways and "tap" it up longways to attack?
>>93803605>Is it mutated onto a 4/4, a 3/3, or a 7/7Depends on which rooms are unlocked.>If a Room is a creature, is it two creatures or 1? It's one creature.> Do its stats change as you unlock it?Yes>If I Flicker that room, does it become a 0/0 and die?Yes>Do you have to turn it the right way up and then turn it back sideways to attack, or do you start sideways and "tap" it up longways to attack?You treat it like any other creature because you're not a mouthbreather who can't understand simple concepts.
>>93803614Yep, and returning a Room with Starfield (or any enchantment recursion, for that matter. Any at all!) Or cheating it out ala Rector brings it in as a typless, effectless brick. Such great interactions!
>>93803619>>If I Flicker that room, does it become a 0/0 and die? >Yesbut that's wrong you idiot
>>93803619>The shill spends time explaining all these interactions trying to pretend that means the design is sensible>Not realizing that the mere fact that they have to be explained suggests it is not acceptable in and of itself.Thanks for proving the point.
flickering a room and it becoming a brick is retarded , it should just come in as the lesser casting cost room if there other sensible way to do it.
>>93803633how is that wrong
>>93803633Where's the ruling?
>>93803619>You treat it like any other creature because you're not a mouthbreather who can't understand simple conceptsSo Rooms have to be oriented up and down while on the field instead of sideways like you would think, otherwise turning it into a creature untaps it. Unless this is actually a very strange interaction and you called me a mouthbreather because you're stuck defending this bizarre card design.
>>93803644You can go back to playing Hearthstone if you want, the computer will handhold you through everything there. The adults with more than two brain cells will be alright with this.
>>93803684>So Rooms have to be oriented up and down while on the field instead of sideways like you would think, otherwise turning it into a creature untaps it.It's true. Permanents have to be oriented upward on the battlefield unless tapped, as part of the competitive tournament rules.You are not allowed to have these sideways on the board lmao. What a cringe ass nightmare.Ironically, OCD triggering. Turns out the greatest Horror wasn't a creature at all...
>>93803654it comes back in without a casting cost, not a casting cost of 0
>>93803616It's reasonably intuitive in how you play it and how it's supposed to work, even in the goofy fully locked state. Both sides are lock and you need to pay the appropriate cost to unlock each side, just like in normal gameplay. Intuitive enough.The jank resides in fairly specific interactions, like trying to Pithing Needle a fully locked room.
>>93803696>You can go back to playing Hearthstone if you want,Go cope and seethe somewhere else.
>>93803684How do you orient battles, anon?
>>93803619>4 reasonable questions>4 reasonable answers>1 difficult question>y-you're a mouthbreather
>>93803719>The jank resides in fairly specific interactions,The jank relies in interactions!?You mean interactions like... everything that happens in the game ever?
>>93803717If it doesn't have a casting cost, it's mana value is 0
>>93803717What do you think the cost of morphs are? A permanent with no cost has a cost of 0.
>>93803730Specific interactions, anon. All the normal interactions like enchantment removal still work on it.
I CAN'T PUT MY FUCKING ROOMS ON THE BATTLEFIELD SIDEWAYS WOTCIT'S NOT LEGAL TO PUT UNTAPPED PERMANENTS SIDEWAYS, WOTCWHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONEI FUCKING HATE IT SO GOD DAMN MUCH
>>93803737Shhh, don't tell him about face-down cards. It'll break his poor little mind.
>>93803736that is incorrectsee also: suspend rulingsif it doesn't have a casting cost it does not have a cmc.
>>93803740>b-b-b-but it's not legal!!!!!!Nobody cares, do it anyway
>>93803756>Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar has no mana cost and its mana value is 0.
>>93803768It is a bannable offence and will get you game losses if a judge sees it.
>>93803723Coming into play horizontally is the untapped orientation of Battles, so you tap a battle by changing it to be vertical. I assume it will be the same for Rooms, but that is NOT the correct orientation for creatures. If a creature is also a Room or is also a Battle, what is the correct orientation?
>>93803773Tournaments are for fags. I only play kitchen table Magic with my friends because I am not a faggot
>>93803728Either you're playing a casual game and you can play it however everyone at the table agrees to, or you're playing an official match and you follow the official rulings.
>>93803770incorrect ruling superceded by previous rulings
>>93803466A Room is only ever a single permanent. Opalescence would make it a creature based on its current CMC, though if both rooms are locked, that'd just kill it.
>>93803785>Finding the correct answer to a problem is hard, I'm just going to not think
>>93803794actual cope
>>93803506Wow, you really are retarded. I regret having given you a (you).
>>93803791Okay, what are the official rulings?
>>93803801What a beyond retarded response. Thank you
>>93803802nopeI can't be bothered to dig up the actual ruling because I don't care if I'm right about the individual point; the fact that we are having this conversation AT ALL is proof that rooms are a design failure.
>>93803736>202.3a The mana value of an object with no mana cost is 0, unless that object is the back face of a transforming double-faced permanent or is a melded permanent.
>>93803809idk, they haven't come out yet. If the set fully releases and there still aren't any, I'll support your complaints. Until then, you're just whining for no reason. How do people play battles in paper tournaments? Haven't watched one in ages, you can just do the same thing with rooms.
>>93803822Meant for >>93803756
>>93803822So I'm correct, since a double-locked room doesn't have a casting cost while it's on the battlefield.
>>93803827People play Battles horizontally. Assumedly, the correct way to play Rooms is horizontally. You generally play things to support the orientation they have.
>>93803821>I'm retarded so that means the design is badIf someone comes in and asks questions about how lifelink works, does that make it a design failure?
>>93803821The fact that we're having this conversation is just proof that you don't actually know the rules
>>93803840Yeah
Turning a card sideways and tapping it are different things. Turning a card sideways is the most common way to show a card is tapped but a card being sideways does not mean it is tapped. Otherwise, accidentally nudging a card would tap it.
>>93803835Yes. And thus its CMC is 0. So a Starfield of Nyx-style effect would animate it into a 0/0, thus killing it.
>>93803839There's your answer, then.
>>93803835We don't even have the rules for rooms yet, there is 0 evidence that a "double locked room" is a thing that can even exist.
>>93803860https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/duskmourn-house-of-horror-mechanics
>>93803827Battles have specific rules stating that being horizontal is their untapped state, but they do NOT have a long history of being turned into creatures, so this issue flew under the radar. If rooms have the same rule, then we have to answer the question of "which way is correct?".
>>93803866>Three paragraphs for one (1) card type>Isn't even comprehensive, tons of caveats missing.lmfao, pay no attention to the shit pile behind the curtaindon't ask questions, just consume bad design and get excited for next bad design
>>93803867Sure, I don't see how that changes what I said. If there's rulings for it, then follow the ruling. If there isn't, then feel free to get upset about it. Getting upset before rulings come out is just dumb.
>>93803874Half of it is just explaining the obvious or re-explaining how split cards work.
>>93803874>he thinks a marketing blurb full of flowery language to bloat the wordcount is in any way comparable to comprehensive rulesYou are just looking for reasons to be upset at this point.
>>93803867>Battles have specific rules stating that being horizontal is their untapped state, but they do NOT have a long history of being turned into creaturesOh god fuck off I can't wait for the shills to do backlips over "See!? The Room subtype now has its own special ruling just like Battles!" as if Battles weren't abominations to begin with, and as if having to add a special ruling just to make a single card type not god awful is anything other than a blaring sign that the type should never have existed to begin with.
>>93803900You ever gonna get tired of dragging those goalposts around all day?
>>93803897I have no nostalgia for MTG. I got into it like 2-3 years ago and I'm only in it cause it's the only Card Battler that's even a little bit playable Is that better or worse
>>93803874You must've gotten really upset by kicker, they even needed pictures and multiple examples for that one.
>>93803886Asking questions is how we find answers. I'm upset because WotC is CONSTANTLY making bizarre cards that require brand new rules and pages of caveats to function correctly.
>>93803886First time here during a new set's release? People always get pissed off about new mechanics not working in the current rules text. Whenever templating gets changed there's a massive shitshow with autists screeching about how the comprehensive rules lists different templating, and how the new templating that hasn't been added to the rules yet is technically nonfunctional. And every single fucking time it leads to the thread turning into a shitshow.
>>93803905>OMG UR GONNA MOOOOOOVE>UR MOVING THE GOALPOSTS!>YOU'RE MOOOOOVING!Cool cliche bro.
>>93803915Literally every new mechanic needs new rules, retard. You can't do anything new without adding new rules because the new thing will always need to be added to the rules. Show me one (1) set that hasn't changed the rules in some way.
>>93803932>Literally every new mechanic needs new rules, retard.There's a difference between needing a new one-sentence entry in the Comprehensive Rules, and having to enact a great upheaval of established rules precedent just to facilitate a bad idea.You pretending that difference doesn't exist is pathetic.
>>93803932You forgot "and pages of caveats". Look me in the eye and tell me that Mutate isn't a total cluster fuck.
>>93803943Mutate is a clusterfuck and that's fine, because it's fun.
>>93803938You have, multiple times, complained about "new rules". You have not specified a minimum length requirement until now, when you're called out on how retarded your argument has been. This is what's commonly referred to as "moving the goalposts" - changing your argument as you lose, to avoid admitting that you've lost. You might think it makes you clever, but the people you're arguing with see it for what it really is - an admission of defeat.
>>93803943Motherfucker Mutate is a notoriousy confusing abomination of a mechanic while Rooms are just a card that looks better when it's sidewaysYou've gone too deep. You need to calm down.
>>93803951>FUN!>IT'S FUN!>DON'T YOU GET IT, IT'S FUN!!!!!!!Ikoria was the worst limited format in MTG history. You are fucking insane if you think Mutate was anything other than a parasitic nightmare that was no more than glorified Auras that you had to ask a judge questions about every time you tried to use it..
>>93803957Next he's going to start complaining about "enters? enters where?" or "any color of mana can be spent? you can already spend any color of mana".
IS THAT A NEW MECHANIC? IM GOING INSANE, SAVE ME RICHARD GARFIELD
>>93803964>You are fucking insane if you think Mutate was anything other than a parasitic nightmare that was no more than glorified Auras that you had to ask a judge questions about every time you tried to use it..It was that, it was also fun. I hope they bring it back.
>>93803995>>93803995>>93803995
>>93803954>You have, multiple times, complained about "new rules". You have not specified a minimum length requirement until now,I'd say the maximum complexity for a new mechanic is maybe three or four pseudo lambda abstractions added to the overall comprehensive rules, and zero changes to already established rules.>This is what's commonly referred to as "moving the goalposts"No this is what's called you arbitrarily pulling random irrelevant shit out of your ass, like pretending that massively complex overhauls to the rules are in any way comparable to the simple implementation of elegant new mechanics is anything related, and pretending it's a big deal to get some sort of "gotcha" instead of actually trying to discuss any of the core arguments.
>>93803968Counter target spell? What kind of counter? Do I add or remove a counter?
>>93803964Mutate, in terms of rules, was a fucking nightmare that makes you wonder how much the guys writing the rules get paid. In actual gameplay, it was fairly easy to understand and play with. The biggest issue was that it was largely a snowballing mechanic and the non-human restriction was a needless flavor thing. Maybe eventually they'll errata it to "Mutate non-Human", like how they errata'd Amass into Amass Zombies.
>>93803968>Next he's going to start complaining about "enters? enters where?" or "any color of mana can be spent? you can already spend any color of mana".It's been well documented that, one way cults sustain themselves is by making jokes out of criticism, pretending the criticisms are simply, inherently ridiculous without ever addressing them.Really makes you think.
>>93804054>In actual gameplay, it was fairly easy to understand and play with.In my prerelease, the Judge had to make a speech at the beginning of the event explaining how Mutate works, and at least thirty separate times people had to ask questions about it.It was not intuitive or easy to understand at all. You can pretend all the complexity didn't exist, and assert that having to ask dozens of questions about how it functions doesn't ACTUALLY mean it was complex, but that would be stupid as fuck and you should not do that.
>>93804063Your criticisms are ridiculous and you deserve to be ridiculed. MTG has many design mistakes recently but if you're unable to understand how rooms work, then I can't even begin to comprehend how you're even able to play this game.
>>93804063You've been addressed seriously by several different people. Trying to play the "you're all just cultists mocking me for telling the truth" card is pathetic.
>>93804096>>93804100>Your criticisms are ridiculous and you deserve to be ridiculed>Trying to play the "you're all just cultists mocking me for telling the truth" card is pathetic.Cope and seethe, WotC cockgobblers.
>>93804107You've been the one seething about the rules this whole time, tard
>>93804107I know the term "schizo" gets tossed around on this site a lot, but serious question, are you actually schizophrenic? Assuming everyone who disagrees with you is part of a cult is not much different than the gangstalking thing a lot of schizos get obsessed with, and schizos often have difficulty understanding simple concepts.
>>93801894YOUR PAL, GOG-AGOG
>>93799910You low intelligence freak you don't know how to make new threads stop doing it if you can't link the correct previous thread.>>93790682Better yet remove the previous thread link if you're that incompetent.
i think painter decks will eventually get rid of the painter combo
>>93802105No one wants to play graveyard strategies when control decks can just hose you with a 1 mana artifact.
>>93803401You have to bounce them.
do red and white have any repeatable draw on permanent, for pioneer
>>93799910Imagine trying to play aggro after DuskmournLOLLMAO even
