Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321>Previous thread: 93843686>Thread Question>MONSTER-TRAPS!Lurkers Above, Trappers, Piercers, Mimics. By the book Lurkers Above and Trappers are among the most dangerous monsters: Virtually undetectable, causing death in but a handful of rounds with (arguably) no need for a to-hit roll and no save allowed. >As a DM: Do you / have you / would you use them? Would you telegraph it to players, or just have them deal with them?>As a player:What are some creative precautions your party can take as a group to prevent or diffuse the risk of these monsters?>As a nogames:Is there any monster-trap you have designed? Or read in a book and think was good?>So many questions!
Do not reply to bait or shitposts. Report and ignore.Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3, Make a dungeon special>4 Make a wilderness location>5. Make an urban set piece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8, Make a 4-10 room lair.>9. Make a trap>10. Roll 2D10 and combine.
>What the fuck's an OSR?>How do I get started?You could do worse than read this guide.
>>93889208>>Previous thread: 93843686Forgot the fucking arrows.>Previous thread: >>93843686>Previous thread: >>93843686>Previous thread: >>93843686
>>93889263>>93889283Thanks for the guide and links fuckfag!
>>93889208Good job on making the new thread but for the love of God, Anon, fix the topic next time, it's not hard.>TQI think the Lurker Above's drop is pretty unambiguously a standard attack given that its damage is listed in the normal way and everything. The Trapper is more arguable, both considering its size, it's attack method and its stat block, but there too it seems like being listed as having "4+" attacks implies these require attack rolls.I'd probably run it as a normal attack with the caveat that armor AC is flipped compared to normal, so that plate + shield gives base AC 10 against the attack while being unarmored gives AC 2. (Dex and magic bonuses would apply as normal.)
>>93889345>Old School Renaissance General AnonymousLMAOMy name is Anon and I'm a grog.
TQ:I use Mimics and such, just describe rooms and have the mimic cause an odd circumstance
>>93889345Definitely agree that the Piercer needs a to-hit roll. I've always taken the Trapper's "4+ attacks" as a reminder that it's big enough to envelop multiple characters.>I'd probably run it as a normal attack with the caveat that armor AC is flipped compared to normal.Interesting, I already have characters record that statistic as a "Grappling Class" on their sheet, so I should definitely use it if it comes up.
>>93889398Smaller mimics are intelligent and "generally friendly if offered food". Having them spook the characters and craw towards them at their 3 inch speed murmuring "I'm hungry... I'm hungry" is definitely an option.
Unpopular opinion: Saves should start being harder. A fighter saving 25% times vs the hardest spell its very lousy, given that saves represent mostly a plot device/luck getting on the harm's way. It might seem necessary, but think that the monsters that rely on "Save Or" attacks are not prevalent until level 4 or so
>>93889416>Definitely agree that the Piercer needs a to-hit roll.I wasn't talking about the Piercer, though. The Lurker Above is the OP pic monster, the ceiling version of the Trapper: a big smothery blanket-monster. The Piercer's drop is absolutely unquestionably an attack; it's more analogous to a spear trap than anything. The issue is whether the enveloping monsters just auto-envelop or not. I think having them do that is both unfair and implied against by the monster descriptions, but I do think armor should hinder rather than help avoiding it. (And just in general, I prefer armor to be more of a calculated decision, the way it is in most of the source fiction, than the unambigious positive it is in standard D&D. For example, Conan will always put on the best armor he can get if he knows there's a lot of fighting to be done, a pitched battle especially, but in the thief stories he doesn't wear any armor at all because it interferes with stealth, climbing, speed.)
>>93889459Sounds like you are using B/X. Try the AD&D saves, they're substantially harder on average at low levels, then gradually catch up.
>>93889545Looks much better. Thank you. The Magic user ones are however much more buffed vs spells and wands
>>93889545>Fighters go from having arguably the best saves in OD&D to having the worst saves by farPersonally never liked this. Even a starting Fighter should have a better Save vs. Breath Weapon than a same-level Cleric.
>>93889459>think that the monsters that rely on "Save Or" attacks are not prevalent until level 4 or soNot really, the Giant Bee in Basic and the Giant Centipede in AD&D are examples of sub-1-HD monsters with lethal poison attacks.
>>93889702But Clerics have the grace of God
https://mystical-trash-heap.blogspot.com/2017/09/d-teeth-of-barkash-nour.htmlThis sounds fucking awesome and Frank Mentzer robbed us of it.
>>93891000If Gary hadn't been such a snake in his business dealings and maybe his company wouldn't have been so full of self serving employees.>>93889459>saves should be harderHow do you feel about sleep/disintegrate being even more powerful than they already are?
>>93889208>Do you / have you / would you use them? Would you telegraph it to players, or just have them deal with them?Not really, I have a hard time with them in general. Just doesn't sit right to have a treasure chest monster as anything more than a once ever creation.
>>93889263this is terrible, way to purist, just play 1e if you think this, not osr
>>93889208> Would you telegraph it to players, or just have them deal with themAny player with a 10 foot pole and half a brain doesn't need telegraphing
Does anyone know of an example of a hex map using ASCII?I'm just wondering what it would look like.
>>93892036whitehack isn't osrplease leave
>>93891987>Any player with a 10 foot pole and half a brain doesn't need telegraphingNot that simple, see the screenshot from the Trapper's description. I am pretty confident that prodding with a ten foot pole is a "normal means" in high Gygaxian and thus 95% not to reveal anything.I don't think it's crazy to run it as you do, but I still believe it's a house rule.
>>93891131>a treasure chest monsterI'm not interested in arguing with your preferences, I just want to note that Mimics canonically imitate anything, not just treasure chests. It's just video games that took the classic illo of a Mimic as a chest and Flanderized it into "chestmonster", but you don't need to and shouldn't follow that in your home game.
>>93892036>Does anyone know of an example of a hex map using ASCII?Never seen one, but the way ASCII works it would be basically impossible. In a more advanced curses environment the easiest way to make one with standard characters would be to offset every other column by half a character length. This type of offset square grid corresponds topologically to a hex grid.That being said, this is more of a >>>/v/ question generally, and I agree with Anon that if I never see another reference to Whitehack again it'll be too soon.
>ASCII hex mapCopy-pasting my own template you might like below. It'll look wrong on 4chan, but if you put it in a monospace font in a text editor it'll look like picrel. >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---< / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ < >---< >---< >---< >---< > \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / >---< >---< >---< >---< >---<
>>93892228>not knowing that 4chan removes excess spacescan't even triforce/10, genuine trashpost
>>93892256I didn't bother because I don't think it'd look much better given that 4chan doesn't use a monospace font, but let's see.>---<>---<>---<>---</\/\/\/\<>---<>---<>---<>\/\/\/\/>---<>---<>---<>---</\/\/\/\<>---<>---<>---<>\/\/\/\/>---<>---<>---<>---</\/\/\/\<>---<>---<>---<>\/\/\/\/>---<>---<>---<>---</\/\/\/\<>---<>---<>---<>\/\/\/\/>---<>---<>---<>---</\/\/\/\<>---<>---<>---<>\/\/\/\/>---<>---<>---<>---<
>>93892281Lol fuck this bullshit, alt+255 doesn't seem to work if I pass it through my text editor.
>>93892297>not using emacs
>>93892321You think it would work in emacs but not sublime? I doubt it.
>>93892384I dunno, emacs handles it fine and gets it into my clipboard and other applications correctly, but the browser I'm using appears to be replacing it with a space as soon as I paste it. Probably some gay security measure.△△△^ Checking to see if I'm a nigger, spoilers: I'm posting on 4chan as "Anonymous", so I am one regardless/spoiler]
>>93892321>>93892256>newfags can't triforce>Linux jokes.Last time I saw this shit I should have bought bitcoin. I'm not going to sleep on crypto again.
>>93892611Where do you think you are? This is the oldfag revival general, Anon.
>>93891130>>93891130>How do you feel about sleep/disintegrate being even more powerful than they already are?What monsters use sleep in the practice? only the players do>>93889760>Not really, the Giant Bee in Basic and the Giant Centipede in AD&D are examples of sub-1-HD monsters with lethal poison attacks.This is true. Giant bees are actually one of my most used encounters alongside spiders. IDK I guess they are more dangerous now
Any of you fags feel like giving me feedback on these styles? Colour points, how the thicc the lines should be, anything that comes to mind.Particularly when it comes to old school blue, frankly I've always hated it. I've made it a fair bit darker than it's usually done because the original hurts my eyes. It's retarded anyway because it was only meant to be hard to photocopy, but I'm not going to kink shame faggots for their nostalgia. They're fucking faggots, though.
>>93892748>What monsters use sleep in the practice?Enemy magic users for one, ESL-kun
BFRPG/ADND 1e mess continues. Been over a month since the last session so in world the first floor of my dungeon has been restocking with monsters from the lower levels. Namely an ogre and a few bugbears. They have been catching adventurers and other trespassers in their territory so they amassed quite a bit of money. Players found these guys and using their knowledge of the map flanked them from two sides and molotoved the ogre to death in a surprise round. The burning bugbears managed to kill two retariners and almost killing a third. Last one gave up but the players killed the monster. The orcs on the other side of the sewer will probably take advantage of this power vacuum. Then they found the wererat nest but decided to get back. Random encounter resulted in a rival party of a figher, a thief, a cleric and a M-U popping up. Players told these guys that there was some loot and goblins in the wererat den and the rival part went in. Once they heard fighting the players went to help the wererats and got the rival party's stuff. Nothing much but a spell book and a scroll of teleport spell form the M-U. Then they found the thieves guilds outpost and were told to fuck off. Players are planning on siding with the wererats at this point :DOver all a fantastic session. So glad to be continuing this campaign.
>>93892748>What monsters use sleep in the practice? only the players doAnd how do you feel about some of the most powerful player spells become even more powerful?
>>93892771not found at lower levels>>93892853Not bad actually. Sleep on BX doesnt even have a save RAW. Charm on the other hand does but its level 1 mooks we are talking about.
Have I missed something or is there a way to determine the type of door generated as in wooden, meta, locked etc. In the dmg.
>>93892956>not found at lower levelsThat's not true.Dungeon Random Monsters TableMonster level 134-48 Human Sub-table:Human Sub-table: 46-00 Character:Character Sub-table: 66-86 Magic User10% chance this M-U or one with him has Sleep.P.175 DMG
>>93892956>not found at lower levelsFalse for B/X, too. It has a Medium with 1-4 spells on the DL3 wandering monster tables, right there in the basic set.
>>93893140Sleep has no save anyways. And charm... I guess it makes it 10% better, ngl. There would be changes on the game, sure, but i want level 1 characters to feel more "nobodies" until they get 1 or 2 levels, somethung that i think that is present on funnel play (never did it though)Im also against calling level 1 fighting men "veterans". For me a level 1 fighter is just trained in the use of arms, not a veteran in game.
>>93892754I'm an Old School Blue kind of fag and use a variation of that for my maps, but Willem Default looks the best among those you posted, clean and clearI'd avoid All Black at any costs, it's really hard to look at for longer periods.Dysonish is kinda bad because open hallways look closed off with the cross hatching even when they are not.The others are okay I guess, though I'd always use a style where the border of the rooms is clearly defined.Doors could be a bit thicker.>>93892825>send rival party to their death and side with the monstersDevilish and wonderful, I always love when players pull something like that. I hope they can get a pet giant rat later on.
>>93889208Has anyone ever actually tried to play as a monster in a campaign (not one shots) and saw the results? Anything to report?
>>93893324Well not in a conventional way but in my megadungeon campaign players get to run the monster factions during downtime. Ogres fighting dark elves with wererats in between and a thieves guild opposing the ratmen. It's fun has lead to much more dynamic and lively dungeon.
>>93893250Thanks for the feedback, Anon!I've taken your advice to make the door lines thicker, but I still don't want them to be as thick as walls. Hopefully this is a good compromise.I wholeheartedly agree that the Stonehellish and All Black maps are kinda bad in that they use a single colour, but it seems to be a widely accepted professional standard (Stonehell, Gillespie's dungeons).What I've done is I've revised the colours of the BlueFag style, to bring the palette somewhat closer to what you've attached. I'm still not satisfied with it.To salvage the open corridors in the Dysonish style I'll have to think of something programmatical. Not trivial, will take some time.
>>93893324never gets old
>>93893324I've had a few halflings. They tend to be annoying but not game-breaking.
>>93893551That's some real gold anon. Cheers for the screen cap.
>>93892754>>93893439For me, it's Dysonish.The only other comment I was going to give you forestalled – that color isn't really Old School Blue.
>>93893551Ahahah ok that's some crazy shit.I guess I can take a 1 HD monster and let them level to a 2 HD or appropriate level monster with an higher cost of EXP than the fighter.
>>93892176Why isnt whitehack osr?
>>93892176It's really difficult, the closest I've found is a map of the wilderness without a hex mesh.In general about Whitehack, I read everything, I was just taking a look at it. I'm currently using S&W as my main book. Given the age of D&D, I thought someone would have done something like this at some point. I like the look of it.
My group played again this week.>Last week, the players negotiated the use of a small plot of land to build a headquarters for a mercenary guild. The local lord gave them permission to build there as long as they pay taxes and perform a couple quests for him>This week, they went about the first task. They needed personnel for their new guildhall, so they hunted down some escaped slaves who'd been recaptured, and offered them a job>The slaves had been purchased and released from Ravenrock, (A viking settlement across the sea,) and were in transit when they got captured by beastmen and chaos cultists>Over the course of an eight hour session the players carefully ambushed the cultist's temple and freed the slaves>For the first time, nobody in the party died (Except some of the slaves...)>We had our first level up, a dwarven cleric made it to level 2>Next session a couple other characters will followI'm curious where the players will go next time. They may search the woods around the temple, they could go to the neighboring village, or they could go search for supplies in a large cave system to the east that's inhabited by demi-humans.
>>93894181>I was just taking a look at itWhy taint your mind with artpunk?
>>93894300Did you know that you can read non-OSR stuff and import good ideas into OSR games? In fact, one may even adapt (or "convert", as we in the RPG hobby say) non-OSR stuff for OSR play. Try it! Even if you don't use it, it gives those mental muscles a workout.
>>93894337>import good ideas into osr gamesAnd pray tell what good ideas are you getting from artpunk slop like whitehack
>>93894337>eating shit every once in awhile is actually good for you!!!
>>93894181>Given the age of D&D, I thought someone would have done something like this at some point. I like the look of it.AYRT and same actually, the roguelike scene in general seems to have bled back into D&D less than you'd expect.
>>93894112Either you didn't read the OP because you are a lazy fuck, or you didn't understand the OP because you are fucking retarded. Either way, you can fuck right off.
>>93894375>replying to baitReport and ignore, homotron. You're shitting the thread up as much as he is.
>>93893784>that color isn't really Old School BlueYou're not wrong. Is the updated one better for you? I am trying to reach a compromise that is acceptable for bluefags while not being too irritating for my eyes.
>>93894345>artpunk slop like whitehackwhat are you talking about?pic related, too artpunk for anon apparently
>>93894406You really aren't helping your case with that
>>93894429I'm posting from page 0, I picked a random page from DT. How is that artpunk?
>>93893439>widely accepted professional standardWho cares about that? You should settle for something that (You) personally like for your dungeons. Ignore the rabble and the academia.
>>93893551>Old Geezer>BannedGrim. I assume it's on one of those older forums that got taken over by modern weirdos.
>>93894495If I can make a bluefag Anon happy, without compromising my eyes, I'll be happy to do it. I can switch from one to the other with one click of a button anyway.
>>93894515Indeed.
>>93894517I am happy not because of blue map, but because Anon makes cool game stuff. Aesthetics are mostly irrelevant as long as they doesn't attempt to make me blind and I can use the content for my games or inspiration.
>>93894395I'm not much of a bluefag myself, but I do think the updated one is closer to the originals, yeah. It's also less obnoxious than either real old-school blue or your first one.
How are the age penalties and bonuses in AD&D even meant to interact with the class requeriments? Like, say, a 19yo paladin with a WIS of 15, the penalty is -1: would he lose his class?
>>93894701>sorry, you need to be at least 21 to be a paladin
>>93894559That's fair. Still, there's a bunch of good quality dungeons being shared for free with hand-drawn maps that are bad enough to be distracting. I'm of half a mind of offering Anons to redo their maps --- or maps to dungeon they like --- if they're not overly complicated, and then I'll be happy to let them pick a style.>>93894568Thanks, that's what I was aiming for, so I'll call it good enough.
>>93894701Given that the starting age of adventurers is based on class, you have to assume that the modifiers are applied after the class has already been selected and do not affect that choice. Especially since there's only a 25% chance of a starting paladin not being a young adult and taking the wisdom penalty.If it were the case that you could be tapped out of a class this way, you'd end up in an absurdity; for example, say your character was rejected from paladinhood as above, and you chose instead to make him a magic-user: now he suddenly can't be younger than 26 and loses the penalty. This kind of thing is obviously ludicrous, so we can take it for granted that the ability score requirements are tested once, and the age modifiers applied afterward.
>>93893324Had a player sub in as monster npcs during a part of the campaign where they were the only easily available way to get the player back to playing. They ran a 3 monster mob of goons as one character, Faceless Drifters from the Nightland Module (only okay, needed a lot of work on my part to make into anything) and had fun with it. We did the limited vocabulary by writing down a short list of words the group used a lot and added to them over a few sessions. Largely fun, but after a few we decided they had learned enough to communicate decently. When the party got back to the main game world we found a more suitable player character fairly quickly and the surviving Faceless Drifter (Edd) ended up retiring to a small lair with a leach monster lady. Their special abilities weren't too difficult to add in as class abilities and they were humanoid enough it worked. Didn't seem conductive to long term play so we stopped but kept them around as part of the game world.
>>93892157>canonically imitate anything,This is an actually interesting area to get into, as lurkers, cloakers, ropers, etc. all have exactly one gimick but mimics can hypothetically have a more varied appearance. So how would you use this capacity in a way that doesn't turn into guess what the dm is thinking gotcha traps?
>>93894917>mimics>>93894917The Mimic Book of Mimics
>>93895106Well that was a trap. Checks out really.
>>93894917I think if you're too sensitive about "referee mindreading" and "gotcha traps" they just won't work, they have to be used with a bit of humor and distance from the game. Which isn't to say that you shouldn't allow people to notice that the table or whatever is weirdly soft, just that when the Thief puts his ear to the door and *it's* weirdly soft just before attempting to bite his head off, there's a Type A player who will get mad as fuck and a Type B player who will crack up and this type of thing works best with Type B, obviously.
Help me imagine how to rule whips as a weapon guys. Primarily on monsters, but ideally also for PCs.What is better when ensnared by a whip, an open doors check or a save vs paralyzation? a third option?
>>93895896A whip misses automatically unless used against a cretin who's also wielding a whip of the exact same length and wearing no armour, in which case if it hits it deals 1 damage, no strength bonus. it can never "ensnare" people since it's not a snare.
>>93895896Save is a better choice, it lets higher level characters escape more readily than low level ones>>93896005>no fun will be allowed at my table!Eww, you should be ashamed, realism-fag. Try reading some Appendix N sometimes. In fantasy media, whips can be cool and grab and pull people's weapons out of their hands and other fantastic shit.
>BrOSR is all about PvP and lazy DMing>CAG is all about quests and system masteryWhere's the non-cringe AD&D movement at?
>>93896104You're in it.
>>93896104At your IRL table with your friends playing weekly games
>>93896143Hahaha! No>>93896143Correct
>>93895896>3rd option >+1 to morale checksActual answer: Save vs wands. Its not a great option but it works sometimes for devices, tools and tricks. Keeping a target ensnared should have some sort of limiting effect on the whip wielder. Might want to add in passing the save having a X:6 chance to disarm the whip but its starting to get fiddlier than I like. Basically having alternative attack effects should be situationally useful and interesting but not so good it becomes the default.
>>93895535Yeah, that makes sense to me. Type A DM here. I think it could work as a once per campaign sort of encounter in a wizard tower or as a way to highlight some strange alien/orientalist stuff.
>>93895896Are you averse to using existing rules?In the Rules Cyclopedia, whips do 1d2 damage OR entangle. >Before each combat round, the user must declare which option is being used. Whichever he uses, he makes a normal attack roll.>If he scores a hit, the whip either inflicts 1d2 damage or (if entangling is attempted) forces the victim to make a saving throw vs. death ray, possibly with a bonus. (See the Weapon Special Effects Table for his saving throw bonus and the result of the attack.) If the victim fails his saving throw, he may be entangled, slowed, or delayed.>The effetcs listed on the Weapon Special Effects Table are as follows:>Entangle: The victim cannot attack, cast spells, or move until a saving throw is successful.Presumably the same save as the initial one; it doesn't specify.>Slow: The victim is slowed, moving and attacking at half his normal rate. He cannot cast spells.>Delay: The victim automatically loses initiative for the next round.Then it points out the weapon isn't much use for a frontline fighter, more of an assist for a Thief or the like who wants to stay out of melee but still help, and some commonsense boilerplate about how it only works on solid creatures, so ghosts and water elementals are out.Pic related is the table.
>>93889208[OC]I've created the Ki master, a Dragon Ball class. Doesn't actually represent a Sayan, but a generic Dragon Ball dude.>Prime requisiteSTR, DEX>RequirementsCON, WIS>HDd8>ArmourNone>ShieldNone>WeaponsNone>LanguagesCommon, Aligment>Combat progressionAs fighter>Saving throwsAs fighter>Strongold 9th level>Special stuffAs long as it has no armor it obtains a bonus to AC equal to its level, up to +11.Can use his punches/kicks as weapons doing 1d6 + STR.At level 3 his punches are magical weapon with +1, then at level 7 +2, then at level 11 +3.Two times his level each day he can activate his ki abilities, they are all quick (as low level spells to activate), in BX games they can't be interrupted unless specified. They know 3 and learn one each 2 level.>Special ki powersKaioken, +2 STR, +2 DEX, lasts 2 rounds/level, can be used more but deals 1d4 at the end of the round, the damage increases by 1d4 each round.Kamehameha, as Lightning Bolt, but made of ki.Flying, as the spell, 1 minute/level.Teleport, as spell, but on entities known not places.ESP, as spell.Ki blasts, ranged ki attack, 1d4+1 damage, as bow range, 2 blasts/level.Spirit bomb, 10 mins charge, 2d6/level damage, as fireball.Fusion dance, 2 rounds to execute, lasts 10 mins, best of the two willing, if the other doesn't know it save against spell or mishap.Kienzan, as light, only to blind, save with malus of -2.To reach level 2, 3600 EXP, levels up as fighter.N.O.D.
>>93894300>Why taint your mind with artpunk?I don't know about the other editions, but it's ironic to say this, considering that only 6 of the 148 pages have these ASCII maps. The rest of the book is pure text and tables.If you want, you can count the front and back covers to make 8, but it's far from artpunk. At least what I would imagine a Mörk Borg when it comes to artpunk.>>93894337That's pretty much it. OSR is about seeing the old with a current view of things. Focusing only on the old stuff would be a waste.“But you'll ruin it...”I don't really care as long as I and my group are having fun.
>>93894337Just read Appendix N stuff
>>93896005Why does the whip need to be the exact same length???
>>93897293Because he's a shitty DM who doesn't want to take a chance that his players might actually have fun. Why are you even responding to his bullshit?
>>93896802>They know 3 and learn one each 2 level.nigga what. Learning one per level from level 4 onwards with a normal XP progression would actually be sensible
Is it FOE to allow a small base chance to non-thieves to attempt thief skills?
>>93897857I will expand on this: Thieves seem to me unnecesary. Their skills are already covered through surprise, trap disarming and opening locks are marginal; and the climb skill only serves to make zones that were climbable through dm fiat, now climbable only by the thief (so it doesnt lose its niche)It seems fair that if thieves are to exist, other classes can attempt their feats at like a 10% chance. The sheer risk of failing is enough reason to prevent it to become widespread. Not even level 1 thieves feel safe using their own skills.
>>93897857
>>93897857Non-thieves can hide behind cover, move quietly, and climb rough surfaces, just as they could in the days before Greyhawk. Picking locks requires specialized training, as does disarming the small, mechanical treasure traps.
>>93896802todd’s that way >> 93858085sayonara nigga!
>>93896802Goku didn't start out relatively weak. That's why he's FOE.
>>93898773nevermmind sorry
>>93896005I don't understand the logic behind most of these limitations.
>>93899505It's bait, it's intentionally stupid to get (You)s
Whitehack is osr or at least osr compatible
>>93899699
>>93899711ya'll are ridiculous
For solo OSR play do I just roll up characters and go or do I need an "oracle" or whatever for solo stuff?
>>93899759You can't really solo play osr even with an oracle because of how much it relies on referee adjudicationunless you're just playing it like a super simple videogame using only rules exactly as written, which is pretty boring
>>93899777That's total nonsense, do you even solo?
>>93899759Give your self a party or a couple of hirelings. Slap in a random dungeon generator and wilderness generator and you should be good to go(Appendix A and B always work).Might need your oracle for the generating the specifics of a settlement or how important npcs act.
>>93897293>Why does the whip need to be the exact same length???Go to YouTube. Find ONE free sparring video whip vs ANY other weapon, including another whip of different length. You won't, because it's an utterly useless weapon under those conditions.
>>93899505>>93899696Tell me you have zero fighting experience in any martial art or combat sport without telling me.
>>93900036why would it be impossible to hit even an unarmored individual with a longer or shorter whip?
>>93899777>how much it relies on referee adjudicationLMAO. Who did you learn about """OSR""" from, Ben Miltard? Pick up fucking AD&D, it has a procedure for almost everything. Particularly for solo play. Even for generating your own dungeons and wilderness maps. It even has fucking *rules* for solo play, faggot.
>>93899799scarlet heros isn't OSRhow would you do solo play B/X? It fundamentally doesn't make sense
>>93900070Because physics. Now find that video on YouTube or STFU.
>>93900079>how would you do solo play B/X?Not the Fabulous Scarlet Faggots FOE. By using the procedures in the DMG.
>>93900088watching the videos, it doesn't appear impossible to me; impossible would imply that if one whip is of a slightly different length than the other that then the two will curve around one another.Why would it be impossible for a person with a whip to hit someone who is unarmed for example?
>>93900103>watching the videos, it doesn't appear impossible to meSo you've found the whip vs another weapon including a whip of a different length video? Let's see it.
>>93900114anon... do you think that because people usually spar with whips of the same length that it means it's impossible for them to connect if they're different lengths? They're dueling with whips of the same length so it'll be a fair fight not because it breaks physics if someone has a longer whip...
>>93900103>Why would it be impossible for a person with a whip to hit someone who is unarmed for example?They original comment said useless against another weapon, faggot.
>>93900122the original comment here>>93896005says the whip can only connect if fighting someone else also using a whip of the exact same length
>>93900121>do you think that because people usually spar with whips of the same length that it means it's impossible for them to connect if they're different lengths?No.1. I *know* whips are useless in those circumstances.2. The claim is a scientific one, that can be refuted by linking a video showing the opposite, in free sparring.3. It's virtually impossible to hit against a live armed opponent. Not making claims about stationary objects such as superobese Anons.
This general is a fucking joke
>>93900141Explain why it's impossible. Again, people spar with both whips of the same length because they're trying to make it an even sided duel not because it becomes impossible for either combatant to hit the other if their weapon lengths mismatch
>>93900129You are technically correct, I misremembered it (NTA who wrote it). I personally make no claims about whip vs someone who is both unarmed and unarmoured, I use the DMG rules and allow fending with a whip in that very specific circumstance that will never come up.Perhaps that Anon will say what he thinks about it.
Honestly, even if whips are useless in a fight against a human opponent using any other weapon, I'd think they might have some use against certain monsters (which is what you're fighting more often anyways)
>>93900149>Again, people spar with both whips of the same length because they're trying to make it an even sided duelYou can find weapon vs weapon fights with virtually any combination of real different weapons, Anon. There's a reason nobody does it with whips.>Inb4 because that's too dangerous like Systema and energy ki attacks in MMA.
>>93900166>I'd think they might have some use against certain monstersLOL, right. Because when tigers and lions at the circus get really angry, whips are an effective defence.They only work when the beast is already trained and well-fed.Not to mention the impossibility of using when there's any wall, ceiling, or object nearby.
>>93900183tigers and lions are hardly what I'd consider dungeon monster
>>93896005isn't this an actual quote from Gygax or something?
>>93900183>Not to mention the impossibility of using when there's any wall, ceiling, or object nearby.This but polearms
>>93900074in solo play how would you determine success for things like disarming and finding traps? You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osr, you poke about with your 10 foot pole and actually describe yourself interacting with the mechanism: something you need a referee to determine success with or else you're just playing mother may I with yourself
>>93900074>procedure for almost everythingAD&D doesn't even have procedure for digging/tunneling lol one of the most common things a player might want to do
>>93896802pretty good, some powers are a bit too strong, in particular at low level, maybe add a limit to taking them early.
>>93900257>You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osrNot sure if trolling or retarded.
>>93900275>AD&D doesn't even have procedure for digging/tunnelingNot sure if trolling, retarded, or sarcastic.
>>93900287>1/6 chance of finding a trapYeah that's really not great for solo play.
>>93900257>You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osrIf I had one Swiss Franc for every Anon who thinks he can play D&D because he's watched a few Ben Miltard videos and read the Quick Primer for """""old school""""" gaming I'd be even richer than I already am.
>>93900306Wrong.>>93900324Fucking word. I swear to god Matt Finch has single-handedly done more damage to D&D than anybody else. We should include a warning against it somewhere.
>>93900331>>93900287I don't see how this works with solo play.Literally a 5/6 chance of getting owned by a trap and then its game over if your playing solo. How are you supposed to approach traps in solo play without a referee? If you're just rolling to see if your character detects and disarms it without a referee to facilitate more advanced interaction then aren't your characters and hirelings just going to be constantly dying to something you couldn't even really avoid?
>>93900350You can play as a party not as a single character.It's okay to die. You can also solve a trap by not using a skill check.
>>93900324do you disagree with the quick primer or just think nogames and new players misunderstand it?
>>93900350>Literally a 5/6 chance of getting owned by a trap and then its game over if your playing solo.Thinks that with solo play you only run one character.Doesn't know the difference between "you're" and "your".Try /todd/, it's more up your speed.
>>93900369The problems with the quick primer have been discussed multiple times in the past, search the archive.
>>93900368How do you solve/detect it without a skill check without a referee though? Generally you'd declare and describe what you're doing to search for or disarm a trap and the ref would determine if your strategy makes sense or not; if you are acting as your own GM then how do determine success here?
>>93900396Your point about this requiring a Referee to work anywhere near optimally is valid, however:You can throw a log thief at the location where you suspect there to be a trap.10 foot pole, sack of flour, people without a soul can bring dogs to walk in front of them.These can then interact with an oracle dice.The solo wargaming method of laying down 6 playing cards and pulling X red works really well. Unlike a dice the odds are variable, if your character has information about the traps in the area you could thin the playing card deck of black cards prior to dealing.
>expanding the dungeon with appendix A>orc lair has a +2 dragon slayer sword>the overworld has a green dragon terrorizing the country sideHow nice.
>>93900350Bring a thief. Buy a goat as send it down the hallway first.
>>93900455You love to see it
>>93900396>Generally you'd declare and describe what you're doing to search for or disarm a trap and the ref would determine if your strategy makes sense or notWhy do you keep saying this when you have even been provided with a screenshot to the actual rule?Again, learn to play D&D from the actual fucking rulebooks, not from youtube influencers and primers for retards.I know it's hard to for zoomers to read a book from front to cover, but make a fucking effort, or D&D just isn't for you.
>>93900578Interactive traps as puzzles isn't a Nusr Questing Beast invention boomer.
>>93900583Not a Boomer, but I wouldn't mind having been one. Fucking based generation, unlike you fucking ignorant whinging good-for-nothing retards.Again:>>93900287Read the rulebooks or STFU.
>>93900673>you fucking ignorant whinging good-for-nothing retards.Why don't you show us where the rulebook contradicts what he is claiming instead.
>>93900748Didn't know it was ADHD Zoomer day today.>>93900287
>>93900749Not a Zoomer, but I wouldn't mind having been one. Fucking based generation, unlike you fucking ignorant whinging good-for-nothing retards.
>>93900754With your reading comprehension you might as well be one.
Ummm, bros? Why didn't they just roll 1d6 to check for a trap? Did Gary even read the rules?
Dad bullied me for using a prewritten adventure
>>93900673>>93900749>a rule for detection by dice roll precludes detection by interaction1E and Gygax exposed as NUsr.
>>93900884>Why didn't they just roll 1d6 to check for a trap?Because you can do it either narratively or by rolling a die, whereas the original retard, probably (You), claimed that the ONLY way to do it is narratively and YOU CAN'T just roll a die:>>93900257>You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osr
>>93901053Thank you for proving the original Anon, probably (You), had shit reading comprehension and providing additional proof that the original claim was bullshit:>>93900257>You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osrSo you can roll for searching and disarming. On the other hand, nobody claimed that you CAN'T do it narratively, so when you say:>1E and Gygax exposed as NUsr.You are proving that you, also, have shit reading comprehension.
>>93897498Hmm perhaps, maybe I'll write a short list of spells for each level and give them as a Cleric.>>93898699Making things I like as a class is a tradition as old as OD&D.>>93898776This class starts weak, well maybe fly at level 1 is not weak thinking about it...>>93900278Yeah ok.I'll make a Cleric-like spell list next time.
>>93901066They're just making fun of the idiots who repeat "OSR gospel" without actually understanding it. It's also worth making fun of those people who think that when Gygax went for a piss, milk and honey came out.
>>93901090Compared to the bullshit that gets published today, it kinda did.
>>93901055>claimed that the ONLY way to do it is narratively and YOU CAN'T just roll a dieIt doesn't say that, it says that you don't just (i.e. only) roll dice. It asks how to adjudicate traps without rolling as a follow up to >>93899777, which dismisses using rolls as boring, not impossible. This was ignored completely by the masters of reading comprehension, who proceeded to point to the rules for detecting traps by rolling, as if anyone isn't aware of them.I have no horse in this race because I am not lonely enough to play DnD solo, just sick of the thread getting clogged by spergs who let their superiority complex get in the way of their own reading comprehension.
>>93901116Add yourself to the list of morons with zero reading comprehension in this thread.>>93900257>You don't just roll for searching and disarming in osr, you poke about with your 10 foot pole and actually describe yourself interacting with the mechanism: something you need a referee to determine success with or else you're just playing mother may I with yourself
Why are location generators (especially building generators) for OSR so SHIT? They're almost always incredibly fucking dull>Spectacular Settlements>Into the Cess & Citadel>Infinigrad>Manual of Hexterity>Vornheim>Esoteric Enterprises>Elegant Fantasy City Generator>Atelier Clandestine City Pointcrawl Generator>Pound of Flesh>Filling in the Blanks>D30 Sandbox CompanionTHEY'RE SHITALL SHITWhy do I need a generator to whip up something boring as fuck? I can do that by myself. That's why I want to use a damn generator.The only good ones I've ever used are Augmented Reality and Tome of Adventure Design. Fucking psychotic state of affairs.
>Open doors check to load a crossbowwhy is this so fucking kino
>>93901378>Repeat with me:No. Fuck you and fuck off.
>>93901310>how do I do this without rolling because that would be boring?>hurr durr roll for itReading comprehension is when you ignore the full chain of replies because context reveals you to be a complete retard.
>>93900079>scarlet heros isn't OSRGET YE GONEScarlet Heroes has more legitimacy towards the hobby of Oldschool gaming than anything you've ever contributed, I'm sure.
Do the /solo/cels not have the capacity to narrate their own trap?
>>93901392>charm person banned for lawful characters>Protection from evil doing actually the effects of Turn Undead
>>93900884That was written by Lawrence Schick.
>>93901323>to whip upIs that something you're intending to whip up the exact same length as the supplement you have? Otherwise it flops automatically unless used against a FOE who's also whipping up a something of the exact same length and wearing no GYG, in which case if it hits it deals a 1 shot campaign, no strength bonus. it can never "ensnare" players since it's not a snare.
What special rooms have you used in your dungeons? I'm tired of just altars to gods or fountains and riddle rooms.
>>93901839>Rahasia-style teleporters that might go unnoticed (the Hickmans did SOMETHING good)In defense of Hickman's unblemished record, unnoticed teleporters were introduced by Gygax in OD&D (III:5). By the time Rahasia was written they had if anything been reduced to an old staple.
>>93901949>In defense of Hickman's unblemished recordlmao thanks, I should've thought of that.
>>93901959
>>93896802Fucking kill yourself. (They're called "Z Fighters" by the way)
>>93899699Can you fucking read?
>>93899777Absolutely braindead post
>>93900141Fucking autistic dork lmao
>>93900183>Not to mention the impossibility of using when there's any wall, ceiling, or object nearbyBows and big swords and polearms too. Do you ban darts btw?
>>93900306Skill issue
In your learned opinion, which flavor is preferable for a Dying Earth setting: "magical" or "post-technological"?
Solo play originates in The Strategic Review for LBB/OD&D. The tables were corrected and expanded for the AD&D DMG 1e. Black Streams/Scarlet Heroes were made to reflect a singular solo hero adventuring as opposed to a solo party. Parts Per Million has a dozen oracles for a variety of OSR systems. Solo play is based and oldpilled just as tournament play is.
>>93901378> calling first decade D&D "OSR"The OSR movement took place in the decade 2005-2015. Some OSR games are retro-clones of first decade D&D, and OSR adventures and settings from this period are often compatible with first decade D&D, but first decade D&D is not itself "OSR", as it precedes the Old School Revival movement. Before 2005? It's just D&D. If you need to be more precise, say "TSR D&D", "first decade D&D", or specify exactly the editions that you care about. After 2015? Best referred to as "Old School Baroque" to indicate its generally degenerate nature.
year 700AD medieval re-enactment group
Okay but can someone actually explain the whip of same length thing? It feels like combat-as-sport logic
9390241593902392Bait of the lowest qualityI'm going to bed and you fuckers better be actually taking about games when I wake up.
>>93902359>Why the fuck am I suddenly hearing this all over the place?>Did a microcelebrity recently write a blog post with his own revision of history?I've been wondering as well.
>>93902436I think there's a reason for it though. I can't find any pair sparing where they don't share whip length
>>93902484>"Dart" was just an analogue for whipDarts were used extensively for centuries by many if not most formations of Greek and Roman armies, they are extremely effective in combat. I doubt the whip was ever used by any army, ever.Only an idiot could think that the two are in any way comparable.
>>93902308erm actually the OSR is 2004-2013anything before or after isn't OSROSEfags leave
>>93902716Sure, daggers are IRL fairly prone to quickly landing fatal blows too, and are nearly the same damage as a dart. But I'm talking about when applied to the game.
The real problem with darts is how would you throw one in a dungeon unless it has an extremely high ceiling
>>93902459The other anon who replied to you is undoubtedly correct, but if you want a real reason to ban darts in AD&D it's that they're arguably poorly balanced. They vastly increase the ranged damage output of low-level Magic-Users, which is something you're allowed to want, of course, but they're sufficiently better than other options that they're pretty much a no-brainer choice, another thing many people don't like.
>>93902783> OSR is 2004-2013.I am fine with this date range. The important thing understand is that (1) D&D was created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, not Knights & Knaves Alehouse, (2) whoever came up with the name OSR did not copyright it, and (3) OSR has degenerated in most corners of the web to mean "indie RPGs". Because of the last point we must assign an end date to the movement so that the meaning and significance of what was accomplished during those important years not be diluted.
>>93901753What the fuck are you talking about
>>93902235I'm not repeating anything after you, you pretentious worm
The issue with an undetectable monster trap is that being wholly undetectable just simply isn’t fun. Even knowing a fully undetectable monster is about doesn’t really inspire fear as much as frustration when there’s no way to potentially detect it. Once players are at least aware of their existence (usually after an unfortunate death) I would include one or two innocuous details in descriptions that would only stick out to the wary or well versed; such as a dwarf recognizing a floor isn’t true stonework the second he steps on it, or a thief feeling looking for secret doors and noticing the wall has a sandy texture that doesn’t quite sit right with its appearance. I’d have no opposition to including generously in a dungeon under these circumstances, but an entirely undetectable death trap should be a first time encounter that’s avoidable with caution from then on
>>93903293See >>93902783 and >>93902308, this thread is post-OSR revisionism and not loyal to the true definition of OSR as formed by the Google+ community.
>>93903293It's genuinely quite sad watching you flop around when the topic of a conversation ISN'T what constitutes OSR. You try and bring the conversation back around to that topic, presumably because it's your comfort zone.
>>93902971Wholly agree with this, with the one caveat that if the monster can just make one normal attack out of surprise with its undetectability, then it's mostly okay. The big issue is the "lol u ded within 1d4+1 rounds" monsters, mimics are comparatively benign IMO.
>the true definition of OSR as formed by the Google+ communityOkay, so all this trolling horseshit is literally just the /todd/lers abandoning their sinking thread and coming back here to post shitty bait.
>>93903388>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO STOP GATEKEEPING MESounds like you're the /todd/ler here, GYG
>>93903469I will never "repeat after you", autofellator.
>>93903515>Nigger I'm not even the same person that said thatThen why the fuck did you leap into our conversation to spout your irrelevant nonsense about the OP? Were you under the impression my objection was due to the thing that anon was trying to get me to repeat? No, anon, it's because they were acting like a total ponce.
>>93903388Trolling over the meaning of "OSR" and being infuriated that someone does not use whips in his game? Yep, that's /todd/ alright. Their little experiment has failed and they're back in force.
I'm starting up an OSE game this week and it's going to be our first time playing old school style D&D. Any tips on how I should keep my players from instantly killing themselves? They're all 5E babies. Start them at level 2 perhaps so they might survive getting stabbed once or twice?
>>93903657>Any tips on how I should keep my players from instantly killing themselves? That's not your job, that's their job. If you start your game with that approach, you won't be playing old school D&D. Guess what you'll be playing? WotC D&D.You have to disabuse yourself of the idea that DM is responsible for how the session ends up, that's mostly the players' responsibility. Your main role is to referee, not to entertain, curate the experience, and manage outcomes.If they die, they die.>Start them at level 2Absolutely not. If you want to play old school D&D, play old school D&D.
lol, all the posts defending whips as a weapon were deleted
>>93903657>DMing for 5edditorsMy condolences.Anyway, start at level 1, 3d6 in order, pick class based on that, MU gets sleep or rolls for a spell.If you want to avoid the slog of shopping for stuff, have some equipment packs at hand. You don't need much to start, just some armor, two weapons, 6 torches, and some useful mundane items: chalk, spikes, rope, sacks, 10ft pole, stuff like that. Make at least one such pack for each class and a few more for the fighterGive every player a hireling of some sort. Having a trusty>Bob the farmhand, HP 1, spear 1d6, Saves as NM; sack, jug of ale, 1 pigletor four can help fight from second rank, carry loot, hold a spare torch, offer a drink to the orcs to avoid a fight, or trigger a trap safely, and offers some incentive to do roleplay/diplomacy instead of "kill every enemy to get le XP".Make clear to the players that their characters can do everything a real life human can do beyond what is or isn't on their sheet, and that their main goal is to avoid combat and instead get as much treasure as possible.And drop them right in front of the dungeon full of treasure.If they still manage to kill themselves on their first opportunity, let them!I once run a game at a local convention, told the players exactly that, and first thing they did was kick a sleeping bear into the nuts "to see what happens". A character and 3 hireling died. After that they started to squabble among themselves and checked the same doorway four times despite me telling them that really there was no trap there, only to turn back after the third room because they decided it was too risky. On their way out a player insisted in checking a door in the first room despite threat of in-game violence from other players, and he found 20gp. All other players complained that they had no freedom to play out their characters and that it was to hard. The player who found the gold was the only one I invited to my regular game afterwards.
>>93904040Janny confirmed for no-fun realism-obsessed HEMAfag, lolWhips are weapons in D&D, they're in the rulebooks, deal with it, fags. D&D is meant to emulate genre fiction, not historical reality.
>Sleep>Type: Magic-User 1>Duration: referee’s option>Range: 24">A Sleep spell affects from 2-16 1st level types (Hit Dice of up to 1+1), from 2-12 2nd level types (Hit Dice of up to 2+1), from 1-6, 3rd level types, and but one 4th level type (up to 4+1 Hit Dice). The spell always affects up to the number of creatures determined by the dice. If more than the number rolled could be affected, determine which "sleep" by random selectionOSRinos, is sleep meant to affect everybody in the area, including the PCs? I think is safe to assume that the caster is not affected, but the others? Have we been tricked all this time?
>>93904338>OSRinos, is sleep meant to affect everybody in the area, including the PCs? Yes.>I think is safe to assume that the caster is not affected, but the others?You know what happens when you assume, Anon.>Have we been tricked all this time?Many of us trick ourselves into making Sleep even more nuclear than it already is because poor les first level Magic Users
how does animal handling work in osr without skill rolls? How does the dm decide if someone is able to get an animal to, for example, go down a corridor and trigger a trap?With the dog example you could say they're trained but what if they aren't trained? Actually, how does taming creatures work in osr games? It's not something that would come up in a one shot but in longer campaigns you may have the opportunity to tame and train animals.
>>93904276It's funny because osr games have almost never cared about weapon realism, otherwise slashing swords would also not do any damage against even a moderately armored enemy.
>>93905271The way my DM handles it is:1. Is the animal something that is easily trained or domesticated?2. Has the animal been through training or domestication? (A process that usually takes a few weeks, starting with giving it trapping it, giving it food, handling it and eventually giving it orders with pavlovian conditioning.)3. Did the you purchase the animal from a trainer, or did you do so yourself?4. If given a task, does the animal pass a morale check?
>>93905286>otherwise slashing swords would also not do any damage against even a moderately armored enemyYou don't know what you're talking about, smelly nerd.
>>93905478a slashing weapon is going to do nothing against metal armor if we're being realistic
>>93905526>a slashing weapon is going to do nothing against metal armor if we're being realisticYou're a two minute google search away from learning how full of shit you are, fatso.
>>93905556>>93905478no, YOU are stinky fat
>>93905587>sad guy with dog on his head stabbing smug guy with a guitar on his headI have questions
What the fuck actually happened ITT>>93905271I would handle it as follows:• The animal must be trained in order to enter the dungeon at all. The mephitic and ominous atmosphere of the dungeon will act as a wildfire or imminent earthquake on any ordinary animal's psyche.• The PCs are normally not animal trainers by profession. Thus, they must either purchase pre-trained animals or hire an animal trainer to train animals they've captured. In case a player can justify it, a PC may be allowed to operate as the trainer himself. In other cases (such as gryphons, IIRC), the PC *must* do the training. • Either way, training an animal will require fairly substantial downtime, probably a month or two. A PC should be allowed to make normal dungeon expeditions during this time, but not extended journeys without interrupting the training and having to start over. Either way, he won't be able to spend his downtime on anything else during this period, including the rest requisite for natural healing.• At the end of the amount of time fixed by the referee, the animal is trained. If it's a particularly finicky creature or difficult "trick", a roll of some type may be required, I would typically say a CHA test.
>>93905614Note that the dog is wearing the same kind of liripipe cloak as the guy!
>>93905666What I think doesn't matter much, what historians have determined and professional martial artists have reconstructed does, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBwtkRd8xzU
>>93905744Not a slashing blade.
>be imposed a quest >cannot get remove quest by a 10th level cleric>refuse to quest>get curse>get remove curse by a 6th level cleric>get back to town in time to see a witch burning in the stake, then go to the tavern and hear the bard plays this banger: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRIfsFefatg>life is good at your advanced level of 4>>93905556stop taking the bait anon. this troll is being particularly invasive, just let it todd alone
>>93905556google seems to indicate the opposite is true
>>93905961>complaining about bait while shitposting
The deletes in this thread are psychotic and retarded
>>93903612You don't use whips? Why?
>>93904040Oh no, how will we ever recover?Btw, you actually in any games?
>>93904040I also prefer my fantasy to be martially accurate. This is more authentic to the mileu. But I also ban ranged weapons in general.
>>93906506Why ban ranged weapons?
>>93906506>banning range weaponsHumanities original sin was inventing the spear. Retvrn to tradition Retvrn to monkey
>Monsters: The chance of encountering a demon prince or arch-devil wandering around on the 8th through 11th levels of the dungeons is 1 in 200. Suppose there is a 1 in 6 chance of a wandering monster every 3 turns. Further suppose that, in a typical "day" in the dungeons, the DM rolls for wandering monsters a dozen times. That would come to an average of 2 wandering monsters encountered each "day" in the dungeons. A good bet, then, would be that after about 50 "days" in the 8th through 11th levels of the dungeons, Yeenoghu (or some similar nasty) would come wandering around the corner.>Artifacts: The chance of randomly rolling an artifact or relic is 1 in 3,333. Using the guidelines on p. 171 of the DMG, 3 out of 5 monsters have treasure. Of these treasures, 13% include a magic item, and 1.69% include two magic items. So I don't have to figure out how to precisely crunch those two numbers together, let's guesstimate that 16% (or 1 in 6.25) of the treasures have 1 magic item. About 1 in 533 monster-guarded treasures would include an artifact or relic. If we figure 30 monster-guarded treasures per dungeon level, then an 18-level dungeon would include 1 artifact. (And of course there are the wilderness adventures with monsters guarding treasures determined by treasure types.)Thots?
>>93907096>Thots?You appear to be able to do multiplication. Yours?
>>93907096>13% include a magic item, and 1.69% include two magic items. So I don't have to figure out how to precisely crunch those two numbers together, let's guesstimate that 16% (or 1 in 6.25) of the treasures have 1 magic item.I mean, if you crunch them precisely it's 16.48 magic items per 100 treasures. It's not that hard, but also your guesstimate is as correct as possible for integers.Anyway, Castle Greyhawk had 13 core levels and more than one artifact, IIRC (at minimum the orbs, scepters and crown of each base class), so one randomly generated 18-level artifact shouldn't pose a horrific insurmountable problem.Other than that my main reflection is that I have no idea what your point with all this really is.
>>93907332> one randomly generated 18-level artifact Braindead mistype on my part, I meant "one randomly generated artifact in an 18-level dungeon" and managed to smash it together like a shill for Big Oaf.
Since we are talking magic items.Do you make sure that there are magic items or is it random?I always have at least one magic item on every level of the dungeon.
>>93907575A little context first because it depends on whether I am doing AD&D, OD&D, or B/X.I consider the Appendix A table for treasure to be flawed for two chief reasons.The first one is that treasure amount increases linearly with dungeon level, and that's not fast enough: The OD&D and B/X tables have treasure increasing quadratically, and that's much better. Theoretically even that's not fast enough, but it works fine in practice.The second one is that the +10% bonus on the roll for rooms with monsters is a bit silly: It just replaces (some) coppers with magic items, leaving everything else unchanged. I'd prefer to have a table that increases all the more precious types while decreasing the less precious ones. Contrast this with the OD&D / BX tables, in which the probability of having a magic item increases from 2-5% at first level to 20-30% on the deepest ones.This is why I either use the OD&D / BX ones (they're quite similar) or I revise the Appendix A ones, depending on my mood.Which brings me to your question:>Do you make sure that there are magic items or is it random?I try to roll as much as possible, but in the end I do curate the result a bit. With Appendix A, usually more than enough magic items are generated, and it's mostly a matter of curating the power level.With OD&D and even more with B/X, it's quite likely that the lowest levels won't have any magic treasure. If that's the case, I do go back and try to include something.
Asked about Prison of the Hated Pretender last week here and didn't get much response or advice. I ran for my group anyway, and it went really well. Since we were used to 5E the small size worked out while my players fumbled around worried everything would kill them. They ended up making some smart choices and figured out the main day/night puzzle in the adventure. They found some treasure, ran away from ghosts, and "killed" the ghoul thing. They also accidentally released a wave of evil ghosts and the ghoul thing into the countryside.None of the PCs had any questions about using a whip as a weapon. We will play an OSR game again soon to continue the adventure.
>>93889208So a question, is D&D overland travel assumed to happen with a compass? If not, would a character effectively never get lost with one?
>>93908097Glad to hear the module worked out for you. Best of luck with the rest of your campaign.>>93908314Is compass assumed? NoWould it stop you getting lost? Also no.There is a lot more to wilderness travel than just knowing what direction you are facing.
>>93908097Nice, Anon! Glad it worked for you.
>>93908314>So a question, is D&D overland travel assumed to happen with a compass? No.>If not, would a character effectively never get lost with one?In my campaign, I would just reduce the chances. I consider the nominally "lost" result to include inability to find a traversable path because of terrain conditions such as tangled forests, ravines, muddy terrain, and so on.
>>93894701>>93894759>If it were the case that you could be tapped out of a class this way,R E A DEAD
>>93908560>R E A DBoomer detected, opinion discarded.
>>93903657The first thing you have to do is, paradoxically, let them know that they're likely to die. They need to get used to the idea that they could quite easily die before they stop, well, easily dying. To that end, don't start them at level 2. Have them make two characters each. If you have four or less players, have them play both at the same time. If you have more than that, then just let them know that they'll be playing the other one if they die.The second thing you have to do is just tell them outright that they're expected to run away from enemies if they're too dangerous, and that they're often able to communicate and negotiate with "enemies", and they're expected to make fights unfair and unbalanced in their own favour. Do not be afraid to remind them of this in the first session. If they're gearing up to fight someone that's clearly too dangerous, gently remind them. This method is vastly more efficient than autistically keeping your mouth shut and waiting for them to wreck themselves again and again.>>93904187I feel like an autistic monk quoting scripture, but B/X advises new players DON'T use hirelings for fear they use them as crutches. B/X advises new players simply play two characters at the same time. This way they get used to the feeling of danger. I've found that to be true too.
>>93904187> kick a sleeping bear into the nuts Was the average age 7? Wtf.>>93903657Tell them that they must first unlearn all that they have learned, that they are not playing D&D but another game, which happens to have a similar name, otherwise they will use their wrong ideas to pilote their characters in BX and just suffer.
>>93906506I also prefer this, but I recognise that D&D is not the fucking game to care about realism in. I know Gygax cared about realism but he was so monumentally stupid that he made a game that was anything but. Leather armour having fuck.
>>93909033I can't say nobody, but I don't know of anyone who plays D&D as a survival game. It would be interesting, but it would take so long to get anything done. Most 5E players I know play it as a fantasy superhero game.
>>93896802>Kaioken, +2 STR, +2 DEX, lasts 2 rounds/level, can be used more but deals 1d4 at the end of the roundCompletely useless if you don't roll maximum score on his D8 for health per level.
>>93909170>knowing people who play 5efoegyg
>>93909379>foegyglow quality shitpost>having long term friends. I've probably known these guys for longer than you have been born.Just to give you a heads up on who you are talking to: My parents bought me the Fiend Folio when it was new. You are new here. Take a seat.
>>93909375it lasts 2 rounds for each level, probably enough for a short fight. Considering that the character can use multiple powers each day it seems reasonable. The extension thing seems to be something for rule of cool.
>>93909543
>>93909543There are five fiend folios, kiddo
I'm part of a medium sized group of AD&D players online and there's a woman who keeps joining the games, and she completely ruins them for me.She always plays some sort of sassy elf or drow and completely ignores her alignment, the rules of her spells if she has any, and so forth. She'll actively do stupid things like charm a human enemy and then tell them to attack my character (because I'm a fighter) instead of making them attack another enemy.She would be much, much more suited to 5E games (she's young, so she didn't grow up with AD&D at all) and she barely knows the AD&D rules. I honestly don't know why she chose this group over another.None of the DMs, I suspect, have the heart not to play with her, because she's always talking about her battered home life and abusive ex husband and etc etc. I had some sympathy to begin with but it grew tiresome.She also constantly flirts in-character with another older guy in the group, I'm guessing he's at least in his 50s and he's married. It's uncomfortable.I don't even see a solution to this. Wait for her to get bored of AD&D? It's been nearly a year and she jumps into any game I'm interested in.Should I just let her have her fun? /blog
>>93910486Oh, I want to clarify, the older guy DOES NOT respond back to the flirting, he just ignores it.
>>93910486Talk with the group about it, bail (no game's better than a bad game), or if you want to be an asshole kill her character on sight.
>>93910486I thought this was Mr lahey
>>93910486>charms human enemies and tells them to attack your characterUmm why? Why is she doing that?
>>93910519I'm hesitant to talk to the group about it because I don't want to look like a bad guy or like I'm picking on her. I don't want to leave at least one of the game's that I'm in with her, because I want to see my character grow stronger. He's cool.I was dangerously close to killing her character when she turned a level 3 bandit on me when we were in the middle of a boss fight and down a player. I had to restrain myself.>>93910523Because she didn't take even a second to think, "Oh, I can make him attack an enemy or just clap their hands for two rounds" - they sent a level 3 bandit my way when I was already soloing two by myself.
>>93910486Get her nudes you dumb ass
>>93910266Only five? I'm glad I picked mine up early
>>93910486I might be wrong, but in my experience that screams BPDshe'll be a victim of anything that happens and will try to put people against anyone she doesn't like for whatever reasson, lying so hard she'll believe her own lies. The type of people strangers hate but actual victims hate even more because she feeds off good will.Either let her grow so much everyone hates her and it's okay to kick her out (risking she ingraines herself so much she'll take control) or leave. Any preventive action will give her an enemy to farm sympathy, there is no winning unless most people hate her too.
>>93910540Why don't you just tell her she should be doing something else with charmed enemies?
>>93910588Fortunately the group is largely composed of much older guys who just want to chill and play some AD&D. She's incapable of wresting any kind of control, most people just ignore her unless she's actively in a game session.But yes, she does give off BPD vibes. >>93910609Because she unironically forgets that she even has spells 9/10 times. That was a specific case, and the game moved on pretty quickly afterwards after that.>>93910617I play 4 different games a week, unfortunately 2 with her. I don't lack games.
>>93910617>don't talk about converting non-OSR stuff, just talk about rules!>don't talk about the rules, just play games!>don't talk about your games, just make better posts!You're an insufferable faggot.
>>93910540Don't fall into that trap. You have a legitimate grievance, bring it up like an adult, you're not a "bad guy" for expressing your feelings.
>>93910639Good point. If anything, venting to /tg/ and getting such responses has more or less bolstered my desire to bring it up next time she does something outlandish and stupid (in a game ruining, not goofy) way.
>>93907575Largely random, although I tend to sprinkle in smaller strange single use items from whatever table I have handy and adjust their descriptions to suit the dungeon or monster origin of the item. I've found having monsters use scrolls or potions against the party has encouraged their use by the players rather than their general hording instincts.
>>93908097You got lots of responses and advice. Seems like you entirely ignored it and are part of the whip trolling shit brigade.
>>93908314If they have a compass you give cardinal directions when exploring. If they don't have a compass you don't give cardinal directions when exploring. Sort of like regular travel in the world.
>>93910660>durr durr girls are badWhere did I say that? Huge projection on your part.
>>93910648Nah, don't wait. Bring it up as soon as you can and it's not disruptive.
>>93910664You can figure out cardinal directions without a compass
okay but trolling aside how would you actually make a whip work in AD&D?
>>93911270Have you read the Unearthed Arcana rules on whips?
>>93911270Just like a lasso does in adnd. The guy complaining about whips and lassos was just having an autistic breakdown.
>>93910935Then let them do that if they describe it.
>>93911370what would be an acceptable way of describing it?
>>93911510Describing the actions needd to recreate an analog orientation device within a pseudo-medieval fantasy world
>>93911534or you could just look at where the sun is in the sky and figure out east/west from there
>>93909033Anytime you find yourself thinking that Gygax was stupid, you should probably reassess your opinions because you've acquired some misapprehensions in there somewhere. The guy was a lot of things, but stupid wasn't one of them. In this case, you're off base because Gygax cared about verisimilitude, NOT realism. He had no time for people who wanted D&D to be "realistic."
>>93911767No, the guy was dumb as fuck. Just because he made a good game doesn't mean he's not a dumb shit. If you think otherwise then you're probably dumb as fuck too.
>>93910655I don't think "No. Play B11" was really advice. It certainly wasn't useful.
>>93910655Mindbroken
>>93911600Seems like a lot of work when I could just cast a spell
>>93911935You're illiterate.
>>93912027nou
>>93911600Only works if the game world has the same sun as we do, lat/long, etc.
>>93913275Yeah but that's kind of a weird exception. Also just generally I'd assume most settings have a way of judging direction without compasses. People have to have figured out a way to navigate somehow or another. (yes I know there are going to be weird exceptions)
>>93902971Funnily enough, old shooters did monster traps the best.Monster closets in games like Doom, Blood, ect were solid, dangerous, but designed such that you could survive and it wasn't just a 'You get fucked, fuck you'
Are there any BX or AD&D rules on how PCs/NPCs can create undead? I'm pretty sure I remember it being somewhere but I skimmed the rulebooks and didn't seem to find anything in that regard.>>93908097/osrg/ can be like that sometimes. You can check the pdf linked in the OP or the archive for some reviews. Nice that you had a good time, keep us updated on your players' shenanigans.I am neutral on the topic of whips but will attempt to put one in my next adventure.
>>93913621>Are there any BX or AD&D rules on how PCs/NPCs can create undead?The spell Animate Dead would be your main go-to.
>>93913563>its a weird exception even though its how it works No? If it works how 'its suppose to' irl then it has to have the same constraints.
>>93913621I love that picture so much.It's from a DCC funel, right?
You continue straight for 30, 60, 90, 120 feet until you reach a chamber with a new thread inside. Roll for surprise!>>93913702>>93913702>>93913702
>>93913721>page 3>butchered OP pasta>vandalized OC table
>>93913647I mean weird exception in the sense that most settings have suns relatively similar to ours
>>93913781The OC tables are pointless filler at best. There are a million and one bad micro-dungeons and monsters out there, these threads need people to read the books they're arguing about instead.
>>93913833what should people be discussing in these threads even then?
>>93910655You cucked yourself
>>93913859nou
>>93913833>they need whatever I think they need and somehow my new and innovative OP filler will convince them!
>>93913721Altered trolling OP while the main thread is on page 3. You can fuck right off.
>>93913838The rules? Rulings? Games?
>>93913633Of course there was something, thanks Anon!>>93913665I think so but never used it, I just like it that picture a lot. Light-hearted, silly and sassy skellies are fun.
Hello /osrg/. I'm looking for a system that I could run with my entry level group. So far we've been running a Mausritter mini campaign and I'd like to introduce them to a proper ttrpg. I'm idealy looking for a system that would fit within key requirements listed below:>Roll over d20 system>Quite lean. So my players actually think and not just solve every problem using their character sheet. Also so I can easily mod it>Medium/high difficulty curve>Preferably based around basic fantasy races (no class restrictions for races tho)>Very limited/almost nonexistent dark vision>Magic weak at first (limited damage options at first level) with a slow progression curve (tho end game spells at lvl 20 are fine at a cost), and no bullshit spells in the mid game>Some survival rules would be niceTried to get into Five Torches Deep and it works quite well aside from the magic system which is a bit too limiting for my taste (and the class restrictions for races)
Oh, whips in Dungeons & Dragons? Really? Let’s talk about how absurd that is.First, let's start with the sheer impracticality of the weapon. A whip as a weapon, really? In a world of gleaming swords, enchanted axes, and massive warhammers, you’re going to tell me you’re bringing a strip of leather to a dragon fight? This isn't Indiana Jones cracking a bullwhip at a museum; it’s a fantasy world where lethal weapons are the norm. Whips are tools of subjugation or punishment, not something you'd seriously wield in a fight where your life is on the line. They’re slow, they have almost no force behind them, and at best, they can cause superficial wounds—more like a distraction than an actual threat. Imagine trying to pierce chainmail or deflect a sword with a whip. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
>>93913665Yes - a Jim Holloway special from DCC.
>>93914765How about you play an actual OSR system instead of NuSR rules-lite bullshit?
Is Ghost of Lion Castle supposed to punch me in the dick?
>>93915365which system should he play
>>93915365Player creativity and actual problem solving. Less things on the character sheet, better discourse at the table when it comes to overcoming obstacles.
>>93914765Would you like fries with that?>>93915413Given that he wants to play a story game while pretending to play an actual game probably Candella Obscura.
>>93915506where did he say he wanted a story game?
>>93915413B/X (or one of its better clones, like OSE) is the best starter for getting into OSR.
>>93915523>where did he say he wanted a story game?When he typed out a list that was just ten different ways of saying he wants to be able to gm fiat everything(except the survival bit I guess).
>>93915618>list that was just ten different ways of saying he wants to be able to gm fiat everythinguh what?>Roll over d20 systemNot DM fiat, kind of the opposite actually>Quite lean. So my players actually think and not just solve every problem using their character sheet. Also so I can easily mod itGuess there's some DM fiat here but in a way that's pretty normal for osr>Medium/high difficulty curveNothing to do with DM fiat>Preferably based around basic fantasy races (no class restrictions for races tho)Again, nothing to do with DM fiat>Very limited/almost nonexistent dark visionStill no DM fiat...>Magic weak at first (limited damage options at first level) with a slow progression curve (tho end game spells at lvl 20 are fine at a cost), and no bullshit spells in the mid gameWhere's the DM fiat anon?
>>93915647>Roll over d20 systemI don't want to learn anything new>Quite lean. So my players actually think and not just solve every problem using their character sheet. Also so I can easily mod itI don't want to learn anything new>Medium/high difficulty curveI don't want the game to get in the way of my dm fiat>Preferably based around basic fantasy races (no class restrictions for races tho)I don't want to learn anything new>Magic weak at first I don't want the game to get in the way of my dm fiat.Here's what you want.5e. Remove dark vision. Remove full casters.Thank you, come again.
>>93915738>Medium/high difficulty curvewhat is difficulty to do with DM fiat?
>>93915738magic can be strong or weak without that having anything to do with DM fiat anon
>>93915738Well. For most people at the table Mausritter was their first TTRPG. So when it comes to getting them hooked on more advanced systems I want them to get used to simpler systems and gradually ramp up the complexity. In terms of modding I'm just doing the same things as you'd do creating a custom quest/campaign/module. Also regarding.>5e. Remove dark vision. Remove full casterskekMore like:>Non intrusive system to ensure smooth play for newbies>Mechanics that reward thinking outside the character sheet>Limiting of resources to facilitate the previous point but letting players do cool shit on higher levels>Rules dialed in to classic style of play regarding difficulty
How do you handle combat in darkness? It seems that dungeons are nearly always pitch black, so a torch with 30 feet illumination, or another source of light is necessary to see any enemies. Said enemies would have to enter the pool of light, or else the torchbearer would have to chase down the opponents. Any fighters without a light source would need to follow the torchbearer or else be vulnerable to slinking horrors in the darkness, most of which have infravasion. Granted, infravision would itself be hindered when facing a heat source too.So do you have the party all crowd around one, or two torchbearers? Pair up one torch bearing PC to one non torch bearer? Do intelligent foes step outside the light to sneak up later?
>>93915861more like:>me me wanna story game
>>93915865Enemies in darkness count as invisible (can't be hit)
>>93915885Some invisible enemies can be hit
>>93915876
>>93914765Play BX you piece of shit
>>93916041Was actually thinking about it (or at least OSE). Tho I'm worried that my players aren't ready for it.
>>93916079Are they only 9 years old? 'Cause sure, it says 10 years and up on the box, but most 9 year olds can handle it fine.
>>93915865The party is pretty small at the moment so they just have one guy with a lantern normally.
>>93914765Serious question: why are you making ridiculous things like>no class restrictions for races>no darkvisionrequirements for the system when these are literally the most trivial things possible to houserule? You're just describing 1E AD&D with two or three simple changes.
>>93916169I wonder if he means "no race as class" which is a little harder to houserule (but still really easy honestly)
>>93915865Keep in mind that the standard is three men abreast in one 10' square, thus up to nine people fit in one square. Also, few rooms are larger than 60' diameter; one guy with a torch or lantern will probably illuminate the entire area of combat without any complications or need for crowding around him. I would say the main risk of bringing a single light source is the danger of it being put out, plunging the whole battle into darkness and making it hard to light a new one, most likely impossible in mid-combat.In a wider perspective, I would certainly have intelligent monsters with various forms of darkvision use darkness to their advantage, yes, but it would mostly involve movement outside of combat – using the absence of light to take the PCs unawares one way or another, or conversely to escape.All that said, I'm certainly not averse to things like an unseen roper in a larger cave yanking a character on the periphery of light out into the darkness, causing him a penalty on fighting back. Such things are just a rare occurrence.
>>93916225I mean... it's already in AD&D? "No race as class" certainly means he either can't use Basic derivatives or will have to buy the OSE Advanced book, but once you've got separated race and class you can easily handwave away any class restrictions. What could possibly be simpler than that?
>>93916225>>93916258Uh, on reflection I guess we don't disagree at all since you also think it's really easy, I'm just still baffled. IDK Anon, IDK.
>>93916169It's just adnd. I was thinking that actually.
>>93916240Thanks, you make good points. It's something that I haven't seen much in examples of play, or explained much on any blogs, despite torches being essential.
>>93916322I think a lot of referees just focus on the actual fighting during combat. Being able to juggle things like lighting, sound, terrain, and other external factors is a refereeing skill, which I guess many people don't consider worth cultivating or maybe even realize exists in some cases. (Consider how often even printed module designers don't account for how noise might travel and alert nearby monsters, for example.)I don't say this to dunk on anybody either, you just have to crawl before you walk and that's fair enough.
>>93913621DMG, spell explanations
>>93915865That's only a problem at low levels. My players, who have long since graduated from level one rusty shank town, mostly use objects enchanted with *Continual Light*. As another anon said, treat darkness like "everything is invisible to you", so any attacks would be at the standard penalties with the usual LoS limitations.>Do intelligent foes step outside the light to sneak up later?Duh, wouldn't an invisible player if the target had a 30ft radius invisibility revealing device?If you see a player doing X, "intelligent"/average INT NPCs and monsters would do X too. Genius enemies are the real challenge to run as a DM...
>>93910266>kiddolow int character>1981try again
Unearthed Arcana....Thoughts?
>>93917046Should have stayed earthed.idk never read it.
>>93910266There are three Fiend Folios and the last one was published 21 years ago. Your position is indefensible.
>>93917046Own a physical copy since the year it came out. Tried to use it initially because I didn't know any better. Eventually came to the conclusion that most of it is forgettable or bad. Now I only use the three core manuals from the 1970s with rare exceptions.
>>93914765The reason (You) are being mistreated is that what (You) want exists, but is despised and off-topic here.If (You) want to play OSR, use the guide here:>>93889263If (You) want to play whatever the fuck that shit wishlist is, try asking on /todd/ instead. It was created for people like (You).
Not sure what I'll give them rumors for next. Was thinking B4, maybe a mega-dungeon, maybe B2?Anything good out there that's not from the 1980's? Something less well known and a with a less standard fantasy vibe? I'm worried the moment my players see goblins they'll revert to their 5E ways and stop being interesting.
Dropping the next thread in a few minutes...
>NEW THREAD>NEUER FADE>FIL NOUVEAU>SPAGO NUOVO>HILO NUEVO>OCHINCHIN SUGOI>>93917345>>93917345>>93917345>>93917345
>>93917349Knew fred
>>93914765Basic Fantasy RPG with following alterations:>no class restrictions for non-humans>no dark vision for non-humans>humans get +30% EXP
>>93918259>humans get +30% EXPLPT: Make it -25% to level up thresholds. Saves you quite a bit of maths (+30% to XP is roughly equal to -23% to XP thresholds, round it up to -25% to make calculations easier).
>>93915373Yeah. I think you're meant to lose a lot of characters and pick up their stuff with each following apprentice, seeing as how they inherit the magic map.
>>93918259You forgot the only one that is actually necessary to use it:>XP for gold
