I Scream, you scream, we all scream for the Ice Queen edition>Resources:WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwhWM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgebaWFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0HWarhammer Chronicles: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zipTime of Legends: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zipET: https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zipTOW: https://gofile.io/d/ffbanDhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/>Alternative Models:https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL>Previous Thread:>>94078365>TQ:Was Monstrous Cavalry a mistake?
>>94096766No, but your mother not swallowing you was.
>Was Monstrous Cavalry a mistake?No, tourneshits were.
You think we'll ever get a Kislev splat for WHFRP 4e?
>>94096766>TQNo, I love monstrous cav.
Things that would fix this edition:>Lower the allowed points value for characters from 50% to 40%>At least 30% of army's points must be spent on core>Infantry can fight from the second row (third row if spears)and>each successful spell cast lowers the +Casting for all wizards on caster's side by 1 for the remainder of the game
>>94094990the guy probably wanted to have a simplified version of the old rules where a numerically superior unit could surround the enemy unit, but honestly without the added granularity it just looks weirdin the old rules you would have to move each model individually to hug the enemy unit, the current rules are too abstracted, if I had to write the ruleset I'd make big units behave as if they were one normal sized unit with either 1, 2 or 3 detachments that are effectively independent and can pivot to hug and surround an enemy unit (or make changing formations faster but more standardized) but otherwise remain very close to one another for the entire game instead of being completely separate units
>>94096818You can add>Melee units that don't touch the enemy's base can't attack the enemy but provide +1CR (doesn't stack if more than 1 melee units would lose their ability to attack that way)
>>94096820I mean rules like these are great for computer games. But in tabletop it just slows down an already slow game for the sake of simulationism, which the game is not trying to be in the first place.
>>94096811These models are actually kinda charming compared to modern GW stuff. If only we'd known how bad it would get.
>>94096818Core to 40% min, Lords 25% and heroes 25% max. Infantry fights in 2 ranks, spears in 3. Vote for me for old world 2nd edition.
>>9409695250 core. 25% lords and heroes combined.
Talabheim force to accompany Valten and Luthor Huss for the end of the Storm. Needs a couple more units and greatswords but it's 80% done
>>94096980Beautiful
>>94096790no mostly because Realm of the ice queen exists and C7 has generally not wanted to repeat older books(TEW, Rough Days Hard Nights and the Marianburg book being the exception)
>>94096980and the starter force (without Great cannon or handgunners) before Valten got the Ghal Maraz
>>94096905yeah, I think that's why they're so divisive. on the one hand you like them because they've got a definite sense of the old whfb weirdness to them. they'd be right at home on a 4th ed cover painted in garish colors. but on the other hand they have that very definite "50% mix of empire and sigmarines" thing that in hindsight looks like fucking fiery writing on the wall, basically doomed to permanent association with the death of warhammer and the first edition of AOS.
>>94096818>lower points value for characters from 50% to 40%you're losing a lot of flexibility when a bump up on points for level 4 wizards or dragons would fix it. We don't need a sledgehammer to knock in a few nails. >30% spent on corehits some factions way harder than others but it depends how you restrict special and rare I guess. >infantry fight from second rowI'd give close order +1 bonus per rank so it is multiplicative or just remove it>successful casting lowers casting for all wizards no way people would want to keep track of that unless it's a one and done.
>>94096980>>94096999sick, how'd you do the grime/weathering?
>>94096790My balls splat a0nnnragainst your mother ass cheeks
>>94097070I paint normallywith base, layer and highlights, and then use Ak Interactive's Streaking Grime
>>94097064>you're losing a lot of flexibility when a bump up on points for level 4 wizards or dragons would fix itThis wouldn't fix anything. People are taking their level 4 Wizards and Dragons regardless of points cost. They'll just take even less of other units.
>>94096988I just wish C7 bothered to ever reprint those 2e books. I am still missing my Children of the Horned Rat physical copy.
>>94096766are there any fantasy monsters like the genestealers form 40k? what creatures play this role in fantasy?
>>94097143C7 barely have the capability to print new books that they make
>>94097163You've got to be a bit more specific with the kind of aspect you want from genestealer, because otherwise if you want something alien, dangerous, largely unknown and possibly making hybrids with people then you've fishmen if you're willing to stretch your headcanon muscles a bit
>>94097208fishmen?
>>94096818>each successful spell cast lowers the +Casting for all wizards on caster's side by 1 for the remainder of the gameThis would just make it so much worse to bring lower level wizards than it already is
>>94097215or menfish, yes
>>94097113The reduction to 40% wouldn't change anything either lol, it would just mean people wouldn't take BSB's and smaller characters in addition to their dragon lords/level 4's
>>94097064>no way people would want to keep track of that unless it's a one and done.You could easily dedicate one d10 to keep track of the penalty (-0 up to -9)
>>94097208>You've got to be a bit more specificsorry, messed up the question, i meant some sort of doppelganger-body snatcher replacement monster race that eventually gets openly violent
>>94097163Fimir kind of? They rape humans a lot
>>94097249they need the doppelganger and invasion of the body snatchers element. The "its not my cousin theoderic", he just looks like him!
>>94097208Cool looking fishman. What's he from?
>>94097241You can most probably find something like that in athel loren and other forests inhabited by spites and nature spirits, they're well known for being mischievous, malevolent, shapeshifting and tricksters, albeit being usually diminutive in nature, dryads are not that different and lure people by appearing as womenthey're a catch-all-term for warhammer versions of fairies and scandinavian trolls, so they are the most direct equivalent of those creatures from folklore that would have the role of doppelgangers and wood elves did have a concept art for an invisible elven agent whose role was stealing newborns, for whatever mysterious reason but then again, whfrpg also has doppelgangers as an actual monster archetype, so they would probably be your perfect genestealer analogue they even got bulging brains
>>94097261looks to be a conversion from a bloodletter with a skeleton warrior's equipment and the head and tail from a placoderm critter from some aos idoneth kit
>>94097303Yeah, that looks correct. Looking around the Idonthcare line and I found the fishy kreatur is on the sprue of "Eidolon of Mathlann". Really tired of AoS having all these little kreatur's spread out across dozens of sprues instead of just in a box of lil friends.
So my first army is Bretonnia. I don’t use any ranged whatsoever in my 2k list. For my second army I want a faction that is ranged heavy. How are Empire gunlines?
First time painting here, pretty much finish my first unit, need to put some transfers on the standard and then green around the rims, pretty hype though. I'm just glad I can get some colour down onto the table now.
>>94097433Awesome pic. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips.
>>94097367depends what you imagine by gunline but two great cannon, a hellblaster and steam tank in a 2k list is competitive. You will probably be spamming a lot of infantry with it to hold with handgun detachments and some crossbow units. It is a swing list though.
>>94096766>>TQ:>Was Monstrous Cavalry a mistake?There are 2 mistakes:1. pegs being too cheap for that statline.2. Elite cav only being 1 wound(chosen, dragon princes, inner circle, blood dragons, grails)
>>94097299do we know the origin of Doppelgangers in WFRP?i know one of the writers wanted to make them some sort of Skaven creation
>>94097637They're made by magic users.
>>94097603Pegs are fine we jobbed for 20 years let us have our time in the sun.
>>94097603ah yes because 2 wound 2+ save cavalry would be great for the game...
>>94096766Pls gib kislev battalion box
>>94097853I hate GW. They announced Kislev as a launch race for old world early on along with Cathay. Then nothing, and now the “ scope is expanded “. Fucking retards, we won’t get them for at least half a decade. They need to make a new color of primaris marines. FUCK.
>>94096766>Was Monstrous Cavalry a mistake?No, but it was badly done. Monstrous cav was just cav but better, which it shouldnt be. Monstrous cav should be closer to what dragon ogres are/were, something not quite as fast as cav but with a lot more meat and staying power. >>94097603The mistake with pegs was trying to force them into combat cav, something they never were. Pegs are supposed to be sub KOTR in terms of combat ability/saves but in return fly.
>>94097878Lol what? Since their appearance they had better melee output than kotr just by virtue of 2xS4A mount. Less sv but much more resilent due to double wounds and T4.
>>94097853We don't need Kislev.
>>94097637>infiltrate society >made via magicit's chaos
>>94096980>>94096999>20mm bases Based
>>94097938And a far lower model count. They had worse saves and a lower concentration of knight attacks, they were worse in combat. Pegasus knights were not and should not be "combat cavalry", their purpose was to be flanking pieces and backline harrassment, going for soft targets or supporting engagements.
>>94097691>for 20 years6th ed Bretonnia was one of the most powerful lists wt the time bro>let us have our time in the sunIt doesn't work that way
>>94097978I agree with that, in 6th pegkniggas were excellent (the best) flying skirmishers but they were never as good as frontline regimented cav at the charge for the same pts.
>>94097853I don't care for another boring empire army, give Cathay. >>94097691>Let us have our time in the sunFuck off you aren't the Gawain faction.
>>94097960Skaven are Chaos creatures.
>>94097960All magic is chaos, dingus.
>>94098027Yea, thats essentially my point. Pegasus knights are much faster and more mobile, but not strong for their points, they work differently to conventional cav/monstrous cav.
>>94097872I can live with not getting Kislev if it means we also won't get Fagay.
>>94097872I can see Cathay being the first new release after they finish the initial roster
>>94098150This man speaks the truth
>>94098044>>94098049Not everything chaos is the same chaosthis chaos isn't those chaos
>>94098158>after they finish the initial rosterYou mean 8 years from now considering the current pace
>>94097853>>94097872>>94098150Best case scenario imo; they abandoned their Kislev plan (and Cathay) and just plan release the old kits as an Army of Infamy for the Great War campaign now. Even if it’s MTO metals. And no Cathay ever.
>>94098175what pace do you think they're following? it's been less than one year and they've returned 5 factions to the store already
Swordmasters and Loremaster in TOW? Are they good?
>>94098175Their release pace has been surprisingly fast imo. 5 armies in less than a year was more than I dared hope for
>>94098188In various form. Did WoC get any new models? Also Orcs & Goblins only got Night Goblin footmen, no squig herds, hoppers, fanatics, spider riders (these exist in AoS, however) nor the metal stone trolls which you can see in dioramas within the rule and army books. It's not hyperbole to say that Orcs & Goblins are missing a 3rd of their army as TOW units. It feels like a rush job at this point.
>>94098183the mercenary and allies systems screams to be used for these kinds of stuff nobody really wants cathay and kislev to receive complete brand new ranges when the rest of the model ranges lags behind and when people aren't even particularly satisfied by what's been shown in tww3but enough to make a miniature army to attach onto one of the mainline armies would be more than ideal>sky lantern>longdragon and its human form>basic infantry (ranged option, polearm option)>ligma elite cavalry>artillery piece>resin monk, resin wizard, resin gong (battle standard) bearer there, cathay coveredno need to give them anything else for the next decade
>>94098244>when the rest of the model ranges lags behindNot to mention 50% armies existing only in fuck off legacy lists form
>>94098189Yes.
>>94097872I'd rather have massive errata for existing stuff and full fledged VC, Skaven, Ogres etc
>>94098225>Did WoC get any new models?not yet but GW did intend for them to have new models I would put that down to production issues
>>94096980>>94096999Nice! How goes the campaign?
>>94098225>Did WoC get any new models?They're definitely getting the cover gal special character at some future point, but not yet.
Literally nobody gives a fuck about dark elves, lizardmen, or ogres. Go to aos for that shit. Only legacy faction that needs to be settled in tow are the chaos dwarves.
>>94098470
>>94097853Instead of waiting for nuGW tier models what are some 3rd parties that I could kitbash for similar effect to the old metals? Big pants + bare chests for Kossars, some heavy armor for Boyars?
>>94097433>First time painting hereDon't believe
>>940979866th was 35 years ago.
>>94098028>I don't care for another boring empire army, give me another boring empire army
>>94098807You don’t understand there are Asian women. It can’t be boring.
>>94098807One faction has glaives, the other has some gay ass zweihander.
>>94098225I don't want new warriors of chaos models. I want the old stuff!
>>94098801No, anon, 6th was 24 years ago...
>>94098865between glaives, zweihanders and bardiches it's hard to say which is gayer or least well represented in its tactical roll.
how come mournfang cavalry isn't good? are they just garbage peggers because they can't fly and 360 no scope? the last thing i remember from 8th was people dominating with them every tournament.does every race have a flying monstrous cavalry choice? without one how can you compete?
>>94098317At the moment Chaos is winning for a few games, Order is right behind tho. Destruction are quite behind in points. As for heroes progressing, there's a few highlights>vampiress thrall from Sylvania stole the Book of Arkhan from a mausoleum, tried to flee through some marshes, only to get beaten and robbed by a unit of Stirland bowmen. >Dwarf slayer Gamdrur has been ran over by horses, trolls and one particularly nasty squig, he has become amnesiac two times over, lost his magical weapons twice, has become lame, and frenzied in the process. >One slaanesh champion, Valerian the Seductor, had his eye plucked out by a bretonnian paladin. Permanently disfigured, the ruining of his perfect visage has given him a murderous frenzy>priestess of Sigmar became amnesiac and lost her ability to pray, she's now the most expensive unit champion on the campaign>Barrow wight king stole the plate armor from a Stirland captain after beheading the alcoholic german and taking his shit. >One dark elf sorceress got krumped by an ogre hunter and she now sports a hunched back and T2 for the rest of the campaignit's fun, we'll see who reaches the end before going quadriplegic
>>94098964Relax dragons have been figured out weeks ago. They aren’t a threat anymore. The only flyer danger comes from the Bretonnian flying circus and some of the tools used to lock down dragons ( column of crystal ) works against them too, but not as well.
this is going to be my prettiest dwarf
>>94098979>vampiress thrall from Sylvania stole the Book of Arkhan from a mausoleum, tried to flee through some marshes, only to get beaten and robbed by a unit of Stirland bowmen.Could be worse, she could have been mugged in the Moot.What rules are you running for character progress? The ones in the Generals Compendium?
>>94099052yep, we using those with a simple xp system to add positive rolls when you have xp to spend (xp is gained surviving battles and winning duels).
>>94097872They never announced them as a launch faction idiot. They showed off some concept art and that's it.
>>94098225>Did WoC get any new models? Yes
>>94099063Sounds like a blast. Honestly I'm beginning feel envious!
Are questions about The Old World allowed here?
>>94099020Those gemstones are looking sharp, anon. Excellent work!>>94099227Of course. Where else would you ask them?
>>94099227Gotta go to the grog thread for that
I hate that tabletop gaming is so niche here. If 40k's presence is miniscule, then Fantasy/TOW (and even AoS) is non-existent, except maybe in the Capital; which is a shame since Fantasy has awesome fluff, and the rank-and-file sort of game is pretty neat. :/
>>94099020I missed your dudes. Keep up the good work and fighting the good fight.
>>94099280where you at anon ? i'm frankly (heh) glad to be in a city with a flgs and enough money to buy it
>>94099280you see absence, I see opportunity. You could build that community and you wouldn't have to share with autistic blowhard gaming clubs.
>>94098470You mean vampire counts surely
>>94099280That means you're part of a healthy country where people are doing okay.It's not a coincidence if the hobby is strongest in a country where the sky is grey all year and women are ugly and the food is terrible.
>>94099257Are my favourite Warhammer monsters (Dragon Ogres) playable in The Old World?
>>94099458They're one of the best units in WoC and Beasts
>>94099458Dragon Ogres are so cool. I like how they've been around since the dawn of time. Wish there was more lore about them.
>>94099227No
>>94099458So strong they almost break the game
>>94099458They are without a doubt the best monsters in the game. Nothing is even a close second. A meta strat is to run the unit champs alone as a budget hero/disruptor for 70 points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE9txucZhK8&list=PLdhgaru6yCnelceGDua5Ar3YvEv7jU04L&index=53Is this guy using the so-called slap chop method?
>>94099193These are great front ranks and I won't be told any differently.
Got this fucker painted last week. probably going to need to use him as a giant for now, but he fits my orcs well.
>>94096766>TQ>Was Monstrous Cavalry a mistake?No but flyers were
>>94099652not really think he just basecoats in contrast/speedpaints but then goes back over in paints. Slap Chop is more like speedpaints with just extra highlights.
>>94099775I see, I think I got the difference
>>94098979What edition do you use? Also what are campa ign rules?
Why didn't people just run cavalry 7 wide in 6th edition? if the infantry meta was so reliant on breaking even with SCR then why not try to one up that SCR?
>>94099768Mentaly deficient take
>>940998356th, the one and onlyWe use the campaign rules from the General's Compendium, we just branch games with points awarded at a rate of 1 point per win for the faction (Order, Chaos or Destruction). By december we'll play the Siege of Middenheim with various advantages to the factions with more points.
>>94099856>rank and flank game where careful positioning and unit facing is the make and break of a good strategy>oh except these units which can go anywhere and pick whatever fight they want and except for 1 magic item in the entire game there's very little you can do about itMaybe my gripe is more with flying skirmishers but my point stands
>>94099880>flying skirmishersThese are almost exclusievely wet paper tough, and in most cases lacking hitting power to threaten anything not T3 with low/none armour. Also expensive. Flying skirmishers fold when charged by almost anything, are easily magic missle'd or shot down (depending on the army).
>>94099859Nice! Glad to hear people still play the 6th
>>94098189Swordmasters are prolly the best single wound infantry in the game. Loremaster upgrade is cool and all but being infantry means he can be avoided easily and in turn have trouble catching up with whatever targets he'd wish to engage.
>>94098865Projecting glaive homosexuality on two handed swords does not work.
>>94100071the straightest sword only has one edge, otherwise it goes both ways
Been working on these guys these past couple of days. I feel like I'm getting slightly better at painting. Using PVA glue as a way to put a shine on blood worked really well. Also I feel like I gotta stop using washes if I want to get to the next level
>>94100198Cool!
>>94100028>Swordmasters are prolly the best single wound infantry in the gameLol
>>94099295>where you at anon? Portugal. I was about an hour from Lisbon, but college life forced me to live in the interior, two hours from Porto (the second largest city); and public transportation is really underdeveloped, or too expensive to make journeys repetitive.>i'm frankly (heh) glad to be in a city with a flgs and enough money to buy itI'm Jealous.>>94099333Possibly... Yet my country's economy, it is a pretty tough sell, and to some football and vidya are more enticing.>>94099378>That means you're part of a healthy country where people are doing okay.Maybe not so economically, or the weather in some parts of the year (like the anticyclone that will hit my country in a day or two). The book's is good though.
Is wfg friendly to warmaster?
>>94100252I don't think anyone here plays warmaster, but it's got a positive reputation as far as I know
>>94100252I'd be glad to see what you've got, but otherwise you'd probably want to look at /GWSG/
>>94100248is life overall good there ? i had a friend who made a trip to portugal (in car; starting from the alps; he was tough as fuck) every once in a while to see family.public transport and trains are lifesavers when it come to games. my current gov (and almost all of the previous ones) is dead set on car subsidies.france is fine; french gov can go to hell.
>>94100252Post your warmaster army so I can be jealous and seethe about how no one in my area plays it
>>94100239 not him but>ridiculous WS and I, hitting 90% of shit on 3+, I7 first round>no penalty S5 ap-2 with cleaving blowIs no joke.
>>94100252sure but I don't think any plays that frequent's this general.
>>94100480>14ppm for a model that dies like a bitch to impact hits and shootinglol
>>94100579Have you tried being better at the game?
>>94100579>impact Hits>shooting Lol
>>94100605Why would I try to be better when I can already kill Swordmasters like the chumps they are?
>>94100618In your head where rent free gaming club exists
>>94100618What army do you play anon?
>>94100652OnG, I've not lost a game to helves yet, without dragons helves are nothing
>>94100662Post your army.
>>94100662OnG anon can I make an artillery based list work? I’m thinking 2-3 rock lobby’s and 4-6 bolt throwas ( formerly spear chukkas )
>>94100690Here's a couple of shelves of goblins, I've got most of Orcs packed away atm
>>94100706If you're referring to 8th then yeah, it's probably the best way to play them, it's also great in tOW too, no reason not to max out on spear chukkers
>>94100662>without dragons helves are nothingEnough, save some dignity.>goblins, squigs, trollsI highly doubt your ability to "win" with pic related lol
>>94100345>is life overall good there?More or less. High taxes, cost for groceries about the same as in places like Germany, yet low income. It is a slower pace of life, suitable for the ageing demographic, and with no large prospects for young people - of which a large percentage tends to leave the country to other places in Europe.It can be nice at times.>i had a friend who made a trip to portugal (in car; starting from the alps; he was tough as fuck) every once in a while to see family.Oof, I can relate a bit. I once did a trip from Stuttgart, passing the French Alps, to Portugal; all in a 1990's Citroen on autogas. It was certainly unforgettable, but I wouldn't do it again anytime soon.>public transport and trains are lifesavers when it come to games.I figured as much; but just like in France, here cars are more prioritised whilst train lines are deactivated.>france is fine; french gov can go to hell.Yeah, I hear it's been a few rough months there.
>>94100791>I highly doubt your ability to "win" with pic related lolPic related is a small part of my army, like I said a bunch of it is packed away, normally I've got 6 shelves for OnG
>>94100345>france is fine
>>94100726What do you know. Pics. >>94100791Big blocks of goblins might do the trick. Night goblins would be better though.
>>94100579Yeah, haha, totally not worth 14ppm. >Cries in 14ppm Greatswords
>>94100579Anon, stop... Don't remind me of my precious chaos warriors...
>>94100824you're right, it's not. the nepo rothschild at the head and his cronies are making it worse tho
>>94100886Stop giving your Greatswords expensive rules they're not going to get to use and just take more of them
>>94100953>Cries 13ppm Great Swords
>>94100345>france is fine; french gov can go to hellHow did this government got elected I wonder
>>94100579Bruh, bragging about playing o&g in this game is one thing, playing vs noobs is another. >>94100662>without dragons helves are nothingI don't know it you're for real or trolling but it's simply not true
>>94101032>noobssays who?>I don't know it you're for real or trolling but it's simply not trueLegit what do they have? Their cav is pretty mediocre, their infantry is pretty universally overcosted for how easy it dies and how little damage it does, they have some scary chariots I guess but it's not enough to carry the entire army without Dragons
>>94100993Certain interest groups manipulating media and influencing opinions of general population to vote a particular way.
>>94101083Says us. On account of how bad you appear to be at this game.
>>94101192>us.Got it, one schizo on 4chan, cool
>>94100993gee how did we not see that coming, how could decades of shifting the opinion through media, blaming everyone but themselves ever and using lepen to get elected each time could ever result in this ??
>>94097853Kislev.
>>94100252Anyone has any experience with WM dwarfs? Are they as unplayable as in WH?
>>94100726i really like your squigs, anon.
Why people are saying that TOW is similar to 6th edition? Had 3 games this weekendy and imho it's completely different game, not saying worse it better just different. Also is Empire really as fucked as I think it is?
>>94101397Cheers, the AoS Squigs fit in really nicely next to the midhammer ones, and they're quick to paint too, that unit is mostly for 8th where a 40 block of squigs can be deadly
>>94101417It's funny, the 8th ed players seem to say it's more like 6th ed, but the 6th ed player say it's either more like 8th or totally different. Frankly, I have no idea why they're saying that, anon. TOW is TOW, warts and all.
>>94101417>Also is Empire really as fucked as I think it is?Yeah, take 3 level 4's and a gunline or prepare to lose
Since my phone decided to go fuck itself and taking my Beastmen notes with it I'm in need of some new rolls for models in my gor unit. I got this one which I rather fancy but am having a hard time conceptualising it as an actual model and so I thought that maybe you guys could help. The overall theme of the unit is that of scouts/hunters/ambushers and they're all worshippers of Nurgle.>Gor w. 5 gifts:>1. Chaos Armour. Initially I was thinking about tying it in with the Feathered Hide as a sort of metallic plumage but now I'm thinking that it might be fun to do a Chaos Armour consisting out of bits of bone and/or flayed skin and pelts with the feathers showing through the gaps.>2. Horns of Nurgle (GoN). >3. Scorpion Tail (797). >4. Feathered Hide (403). Given this gift it wouldn't be a bad idea to maybe go with a bird-themed beastman. If so then maybe I could have the model perched on top of a three stump? Regardless I'm not entirely sure what to do with the head.>5. Daemonic Name (GoN). >True Name: Eu'eehleezhdue>Use-Name: Lickwar the GlopThe use-name does seem to suggest some slobbering tongue-action - maybe I could find a way to style the model as coating itself with its own viscous saliva due to habitually grooming itself with its elongated tongue?
>>94101432did you draw that, anon? It looks really cool! I like the big tongue idea, that's why I like bloodletters so much, so you could maybe sculpt a tongue and see where it goes from there. I can't help but think that a bird-themed beastman would be a servant of tzeentch, though. Maybe a raven or a crow could work, 'cause they eat dead bodies?
>>94101432>habitually grooming itself with its elongated tongue>beastmen>groomingAnon
>>94101460>did you draw that, anon?I wish! I just found it on google while looking for a suitable pic for my question.Looks to me like it's a redrawing of one of the beastmen artworks in the Realm of Chaos books.>I like the big tongue ideaYeah, seems like it would be a fun thing to do.>that's why I like bloodletters so muchThat kit is great, alright.>maybe sculpt a tongue and see where it goes from there.Not a bad thought, allthough if I wanted it to be posed grooming itself it might be prudent to first figure out the body and have the tongue somewhat wrap around it to get to the spot of licking. Alternatively, I could maybe have it howl at the sky with the tongue extended up and and beyond the mouth/beak?>I can't help but think that a bird-themed beastman would be a servant of tzeentch, though.I don't think that's necessarily how beastmen work but I get your point.>Maybe a raven or a crow could workYeah was thinking something along that line myself, albeit not necessarily with the head of one. A vulture could be cool too I guess, or even a scabby ostrich.
>>94101417Yup, Empire is a joke at the moment, it needs a massive errata bordering on complete rewrite of existing list. Arcane Journal won't fix anything.
>>94101460>can't help but think that a bird-themed beastman would be a servant of tzeentchIsn't a crow Nurgle associated though? I vaguely remember northern retards calling Nurgle "Crow God" od something line that
>>94101417>Why people are saying that TOW is similar to (insert number) th editionIt works either as prestige/legacy comparison by people who want TOW recognized as successor of the best (subjective) edition OR used by people who don't like it and swear it's a spawn of whatever edition they (subjectively) find inferior compared to their favorite.
>>94098983>have been figured out weeks ago. They aren’t a threat anymoreHow do you deal with dragon riders then? Asking for a friend.
>>94098979>vampiress thrall from Sylvania stole the Book of Arkhan from a mausoleum, tried to flee through some marshes, only to get beaten and robbed by a unit of Stirland bowmen.Classic stirlanders
So Pure of heart allows a heros unit to automatically pass panic tests. Cloak of beards prevents other units to using the hero's leadership. The later doesn't prevent the former right? Since they aren't actually making the test?
>>94101679Both are unrelated really, there's no collison course between these two.
>>94101679If you are automatically passing why does it matter what the leadership is?
>>94101660Column of crystal spam shuts them down completely, also if you’re Bretonnia just spam heroes with Virtue of Heroism and charge them.
>>94101679Made to be maimed and dragged across the heart lands by oiled up scat infested necromancers.
>>94101767Ok good. I am making 2 high elf lists1 is "a balanced army" with spearmen, a dragon prince and general to win shitThe other is "Stuff Anon likes" which is all mounted (love me knights and elites) with kitty cats, dragon princes, waifu heros, the pokemon ho-oh and a prince with a cloak of beards (fug stunties) and no actual dragons
>>94101806I find it hilarious that that spell is described as infinitely tall in gameplay terms. Imagining it going off and a crystal spike reaching into the stratosphere shooting up.
While we are talking about High Elves, are their Militia units supposed to be mixes gender or are they male dominated? There's obviously a few female character sculpts but does that extend to the basic Spears and Archers?
>>94101836They used to mix the models I think but honestly I prefer uniformity in my ranks
>>94101836The men are basically women so who cares
>>94101849Anon please leave
Why are chaos daemons units so overcosted?
>>94101844AFAIK it was only DE militia who had both genders standing with 6th kit. HE art and models had only male grunts with Sister of Avelorn being exclusively female.
>>94097367In what, TOW? Awful. They're good in 8th, decent in 6th.
>>94098964They seem decent. A unit of 3 or 4 with great weapons hits pretty hard. Lacking counter charge will make them vulnerable to other cavalry though, and they are less maneuverable. Don't compare things to pegasus knights.
>>94101871After Great Plague costs of summoning rituals (ingredients, skilled professionals) have drastically increased.
>>94099576I think the tomb scorpion is probably better.
>>94101836mixed, like dark elves and wood elves
>>94101947Citation needed
>>94101836When my Beastmen fight them, they're all women...
>>94101963...have you looked at their kits?
>>94101986>let me tell you about the gay rape I imagine when I play this wargameWhy are fantasyfags like this?
>>94102016Those are grave guard
>>94102022no, these are glade guards, idiot
>>94102016VGH I wish I could have these spearmen instead of the 40 I built from 8th ed
>>94096848>>94096820Its hard to make "wrap around rules" that balance abstraction and simulationbut in the old days when you choose to wrap around you do set yourself up for a counter charge. I think I might just go with some kind house rules for it. I don't play with any dipshits who'd abuse it but I just don't like it.
>>94102021Beastmen are a rape based economyMost of warhammer is really.There are anti-rapes like bretonnia and high elvesPro-rapes like beast men and dark elvesand Rape neutrals like the empire, lizardmen and skellis
>>94102110>skellisI hear they get boners sometimes.
>>94102016WE and DE indeed have mixed units. But not the HE
>>94102176Dark elves kill their own women so much its a wonder they haven't gone madWoodies are legit murder retard barbarians so it adds upHigh elves are legit the only ones who don't want to go extinct
>>94102188It's better to leave population issues alone I think. Just learned that Phoenix Guard number 10k exactly which hardly fits "dying race" vibe especially since PG are extremely elite.
I got pic related but I'm still too scared to paint my minis.What fool proof way can I do this?It's age of sigmar but I assume it doesn't matter and I can use this to paint 40k (I have a Farstalker Kinband Kill Team set I need to paint)
>>94102589Wrong thread my guy
>>94102589It's easy anon. Clean 'em up of moldlines and sprue clippings, prime them, paint in the basic colors you want until they look smooth and solid, darken the recesses and highlight the raised areas, seal in varnish. Done.
Hows this for a Fun!(tm) list themed around being mounted. I don't know how bad my odds will be without a proper anvil and no dragons but hey-ho I like knights and kitty cats===All mounted, all the time [2000 pts]Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms===++ Characters [654 pts] ++Warden Contrerion [257 pts] - Hand weapon- Light armour- Shield- Bow of Avelorn- General- Barded Elven Steed- Armour of Caledor- The Cloak of Beards- Giant Blade- Pure of HeartAqua [203 pts] - Hand weapon- Level 4 Wizard- Barded Elven Steed- Sea Guard- High MagicNoble [194 pts] - Lance- Light armour- Shield- Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner]- Barded Elven Steed- Blood of Caledor++ Core Units [545 pts] ++10 Silver Helms [258 pts] - Hand weapons- Lances- Hand weapons (Hooves)- Heavy armour- Barding- Shields- High Helm (champion)- Standard bearer- Musician7 Ellyrian Reavers [153 pts] - Hand weapons- Cavalry spears- Hand weapons (Hooves)- Light armour- Shortbows- Skirmishers- Harbinger (champion)- Standard bearer- Musician6 Ellyrian Reavers [134 pts] - Hand weapons- Cavalry spears- Hand weapons (Hooves)- Light armour- Shortbows- Skirmishers- Harbinger (champion)- Standard bearer- Musician++ Special Units [391 pts] ++10 Dragon Princes [391 pts] - Lance- Full plate armour- Barding- Shield- Drakemaster- Standard bearer- Musician++ Rare Units [410 pts] ++Flamespyre Phoenix [170 pts] - Heavy armourLion Chariot of Chrace [125 pts] - Chracian Great BladeLothern Skycutter [115 pts] - Cavalry spears- Shortbows- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower-
>>94103069please format your list better before posting in the future, copying and pasting the entire output of your list building software ends up including a lot of unnecessary information
>>94103069>lothern skycutter
>>94103094sorry>>94103140idk I wanted artillery and I thought it was a silly fun chariot. Very whimiscal
>>94097215Full on lovecraftian deep ones, that may or may not be chaos, and we're definitely a precursor race before the old ones came, such as the Fimir and Dragon Ogres (but have less significantly less lore). They do the typical deep one thing, mating with coastal humans, providing them treasures and bounties and exchange for interbreeding, worshiping and manipulating antediluvian oceanic beasts, spreading madness etc. pic related is the /only/ official image as far as I know. They've been around since the first edition of the RPG, And yet have always been left completely vague on purpose.There are also fish and shark beastmen, who are unrelated and just "beastmen, but fishy".
>>94096766How would you guys fix WHFB 3rd edition?
>>94103336By playing 5th or 6th.
>>94103336Is just okay a different system in the same setting.
>>94103415Just that irreparable huh
>>94103336Don't use Warhammer Armies, build your units from base instead.
>>94103507>in the same settingEven that is debatable
Is TOW really that gimmicky? From what I see it's characters, monsters, magic and mayby artillery wwe with everything else filling suplementary role. That's my Impression anyway, sorry if I got it wrong.
>>94104797That's more or less how it has always been.
>>94104933Not really.
>>94104797I think infantry is too underwhelming for a rank and flank game.
>>94102589Painting is pretty easy. Its' pretty much just 3D coloring book. Doesn't take much to get a decent/good result.
>>94104964Wrong
>>94096766Anyone have good recommendation for Vampire count proxies?
>>94104988Sorry bro but that's the truth.
>>94105012It isn’t tho
>>94104797TOW at the moment is a half baked mess lacking balance with some armies being clearly superior to others and you still have old whfb army issues regarding specific army playstyles.
>>94105029But it is
>>94104797Woehammer have posted the top 3 lists from their recent 2k tournament and it has more Dragons than rank bonuses.> Every list has the maximum number of dragons (2, 2, 3)> Every list has maximum character and minimum core spending> Only a single ranked infantry unit (40 Skeleton Warriors)It's absolutely rancid and easily the worst I've ever seen any edition of WFB, and that includes 7E Daemons and 8E Lionstar.https://woehammer.com/2024/10/08/top-three-old-world-lists-for-the-affair-of-miscasting-wizards-2000/
>>94105230Tourneyfags gonna tourneyfag, who gives a fuck.
>>94105230Dragons are cool
>>94105230>WAACfags optimize the fun out of a game.. againCool, but not my problem.
>>94105230This is certainly a failing of TOW, but I'd say it's also largely to do with the shift in culture over the past 10 years. Most of these sweaty waacfags moved over to 40k in the decade that fans kept fantasy alive, and now that they're back, it's even easier to access data on what the best list is.
>>94105253And yet people ape sucha list and play opti lists because system not only allows but encourages that. GW knew perfectly well what they wers doing and how it's going to end.
>>94102589Get some "basic bitch" models, paint them, possibly fuck them up, learn what mistakes you made, do better next time, repeat.It's like in Go where they tell you to lose your first 100 games ASAP, but with painting.
>>94105392Sweaty waacfags were always present in whfb anon and imho it's blame the game case. If you can't do something you can't but if rules allow that, well.
>>94104933Try to pull that off in 6th od 7th lol.
>>94105253>game doesn't encourage playing WHFB the way it should be playedI give a shit
>>94105230Imagine going to the effort of rebasing your old WFB army to play TOW and then seeing this shit across the table.
>>94105574TOW is pretty nice to have because models. For now I'm sitting it out and observing, mayby one day GW will adress all the shitty stuff this game is full of but current state of affairs is not really something I wish to participate in.
>>94105230The Bretonnian list preys on the dragon lists I guess, so you might at least have a meta if ranked units could beat that. But unfortunately they’re just shit.
>>94105230lol 2 dragons on the top list. It’s funny how little the character on top actually matters. Stomps were a mistake.
>>94105230Oh wow it’s even worse>1st: two dragons>2nd: two dragons>3rd: THREE dragonsI guess the rationale is even the optimized monster killer character is going to struggle to hit both, and nothing else in the opposing army can take on the other dragon.The skeletons are the only good infantry because they have actual old school unbreakable and can legitimately pin other units in place.
>>94105595What can GW do? They've clearly made TOW as a narrative game and regardless of that fags are forcing it as a tourney game. It's a problem with the psychology of the gamers. I have a nice group of likeminded friends so none of the tournament imbalances touch us in any way. We aren't even Calvinballing the rules, we play the as written. It's just that no one is there with the sole goal of winning a game of toy soldiers. Certainly we want to win, but not at the cost of flavorful interaction and fun.
>>94105635It was possible to make a narrative game that wasn’t this monster and cavalry centric. Why have swiftstride, first charge and counter charge been created and given out so liberally? Designing these abilities inherently makes the game less focused on flanking. Why was outnumber bonus taken away and maximum rank bonus reduced? Why do skirmishers have a 360 line of sight charge arc? Why were monsters made so powerful and were they given magic item protection from the characters riding them?These abilities were designed intentionally and they make infantry a losing proposition, take the game away from rank and flank, and make monsters and cavalry, especially flying ones, the best possible choice to field. That was a design choice the TOW guys made, probably because it makes the game quicker, more accessible and cheaper to collect.
>>94105654It was possible, but they didn't. You can break down every game into small details and nitpick at them it if you want. Nothing is perfect. Nothing you brought up has a positive or negative impact on the narrative aspect of the game.
>>94105230I'm glad my local group is casual. I haven't even seen a dragon in the five months I've been playing.
>>94105675Poor balance affects the narrative aspect of the game. It means that certain emerging narratives are less likely.
>>94105393Not a single person does that in my casual group. We just like sending little dudes fight eachother and throw shitloads of dice. Find better friends to play with.It takes certain kind of autism to chase toy soldier meta.
I think the narrative of TOW is very well supported by its rules>chaos was on the wane... the time of the everchosen had not yet come, and the full strength of chaos was yet to be marshalled>except for the mighty chaos dragons - there were thousands of them, often working together to lead armies, and they were far scarier than ever before>thankfully in the 2200s E.C. the supposed rarity of other factions' dragons, such as tomb kings and high elves, dark elves and wood elves, was reversed and with these dragons the innumerable horde of chaos dragons was held at bay
>>94105675>Nothing you brought up has a positive or negative impact on the narrative aspect of the game.This just isn't true. Let's say you're trying to portray a narrative battle between a hold-out fortified town of the empire and an invading orc waaagh. The town has a small preceptory of inner circle knights and these represent the elite of the defending forces.Narratively, you might think the empire commander would hold these knights back for a devastating flank charge across the orc lines, or use them to check the orcs' own cavalry. In TOW neither of these things are possible: the knights will mercilessly chain-charge infantry into oblivion from the front, so flanking them is a waste of time, and orc boar boys are in fact expertly trained counter-chargers so you had better not try to take them on with the knights.This isn't even getting into how by TOW rules demigryph knights are in fact far more common than knights of the inner circle, and most empire lines are anchored by large units of regular knights and not by state troops or militia. A wargame, even a narrative one, outlines the plays and forces available by imposing a simulation of war via its rules. Otherwise you might as well just write a story. And TOW's simulation is faulty.
>>94102176high elves were an even earlier kit so I'm attributing the uniformity to thatgw has never really suggested that elves have enough of a sexual dimorphism or cultural element to make the two genders not equal at least on the basic rolesgender biases arise on religious practices only as far as we got to see
>>94104797Game is fucked mate just completely fucked
Why didn't Archaon simply unleash his hundreds of chaos dragons on the empire during the End Times or the Storm of Chaos? Wouldn't that have made everything a bit easier?
>>94102176HE women just have small tits.t. HE male
>>94105918No, dragons are extremely territorial, unleashing multiples on the same battlefield is a recipe for disaster as they break free from the control of their riders and proceed to attack each other to establish dominance.
>>94105940That doesn't seem to be the case in The Old World™
>>94105950well, it should be, I tell you!
>>94104993Highlands Miniatures and Last Sword
>>94105886I think there are definitely some balance problems, I think First Charge being all over the place is one of the biggest problems. That means that big units of infantry that rely on ranks for combat resolution bonuses and leadership bonuses are way more likely to break.
>>94105635>They've clearly made TOW as a narrative gameAnon please. Shit rules has 0 to do with game being narrative or competitive it just game. Not saying that you're a redditfag but I've seen a big post some retard on aforementioned site has made and his main line of defense was exactly that TOW was not meant to be balanced because it's narrative game. And it's evidently not. Narrative game is shit like preset armies fighting historical scenarios or campaigns like we had in the days of old (Tears of Isha, Idol of Mork etc) and TOW is not this game mode.
>>94105816>Not a single person does that in my casual group. We just like sending little dudes fight eachother and throw shitloads of dice. Find better friends to play with.Perfect example of nonargument strawman defence
>>94105816>uh oh game is not bad find better players Lmao
>>94105635>>94106125balance aids a narrative game as much as a competitive one. it's made this way because swinging the balance pendulum as hard as you can sells models better than a stable system.
>>94105595>TOW is pretty nice to have because modelsthis is true for sure. although it's a lot less necessary nowadays when you can just print any model you want. and it's usually both cheaper and nicer than what you get from the manufacturer.
>>94106195100% agree though GW army releases include nice old metal sculpts that were extremely hard to get for years. Plastic ones as well, like 5/6th ed night goblins. I know plenty of people do nice stl gobbos but these were always my favorite in absence of Kev Adams' metal ones which are the best goblins ever made.
What did a WAACfag 6th edition army look like? White Dwarf reports aren't exactly representative of the times.
>>94106183This. I'm learning wamaster rules right now and what I love about this game and it's balance is that you can make lots of different lists focusing on different playstyle and they are all legit with pros and cons. There's no One True Build that smashes them all, you can go heavy on infantry/cavalry/chatacters/shooting/combined arms. Monsters and artillery are purely support role or in case of many monster (like HE dragon rider lol) exactly narrative one since while being good they are very expensive. Actually Rick Priestly said he didn't want monsters to dominate the game so made them more expensive than they should be logically speaking. But you can still use them to great effect it you have a plan.
>>94106340Stop talking about warmaster it makes me seethe every time I remember it exists and no one near me plays it so I won’t ever get to enjoy it.
>>94106282There was no option for waacfaggotry lists unless you were playing static dwarf gunline. Deathstar units were impossible to make, magic was less powerful than in alter editions but very important neverthless. The only thing that really comes to my mind was Bretonnian RAF with pegasus lord and 3 units of pegasus knights but it was more of a gotcha list that crumbled pretty fast it you knew how to counter it. Also skryre jezzail spam which got old very fast. Can't recall anything else.
>>94106282>dwarf uber gunline>VC spamming necromancers instead of vampires>wood elves if focused on shooty and exploiting difficult terrainthese would be the big 3 in 6th. Ogres are kinda busted in an on itself tho
>>94106453forgot>skaven with warlock engineer spam, jezzails and ratling msu
>>94106282I know that for a long time lizardmen abused the hell out of skink skirmishers and lone saurus heroes
>>94106392Be the change you want to see, get 2 armies
>>94106453What about the almost all cav army of high elves
>>94106453I think you can add WE Dryad spam to the listI vaguely remember the SoC Daemon and HE lists being bullshit as well but that might just be bad memory
>>94106523HE all cav is quite good but their low T and limited numbers means you can overwhelm them with better statted units. MSU fast cav is definetly in the waac territory but imo elves overpay for their high initiative and WS
>>94106453>>VC spamming necromancers instead of vampiresBut that's wrong though, you literally can't kill anything without vampires, which is why every army had at least a couple of blood dragons
>>94102110>Bretonnia>anti-rapeNot if the peasantry are the only ones around to see
>>94106453Necromancer spam meant that you forfeited all the vampire rolling power and magic was still swingy. Neheking skeletons and zombies is all good and fine in theory but from my xp as a VC player and opponent it didn't work.
>>94106183You say that but outside of bretonnia the OP models aren't being sold right now
>>94106587>rolling*killing
>>94102052I hate those half-helmets so much
>>94106612I never considered them helmets as much as "camo"first thing that got to my mind when seeing the models and this artwork was the image of an elf emerging as if out of nowhere from a tree because he was hiding by hugging close to it with that mask and the rest of the clothes imitating bark and leaves
>>94106612>>94106651I assumed it was some sort of religious garb tied to Lileath, with "half-faces" being something associated with the moon.
>>94106523Nothing spectacular or challenging. HE had no real cavalry heavy hitters being S3. DP with banner of ellyrion were the most mobile cavalry unit in the game bar light cav, very good at the charge due to WS5 however they were not designed to tackle other heavy cav, monstrous infantry or heavy infantry like GG, dwarfs or whatever with 2+sv. High elves excelled at mobility and control but you had to make sure you have a plan and the right tools meaning that just cavalry was not enough in 90% cases.
Got a 1750 event coming up and trying to decide if Im happy with this.
Why 1750?
>>94106761Because that's what the event is running. Personally I hate it but it does reduce some double lord level bullshit. Reposting full list
>>94106453What about the Tzeentch flying circus?
>>94106478Lizardmen were very tough in 6th. Tomb Kings I honestly thought were great with their auto-cast magic and fast cavalry chariots.
>>94106778Not really getting the Tzeentch mark on the sorcerer and the knights.
>>94106778As someone who runs hagtree fetish with viletide your list makes me hard
>>94106912Just wanted a mobile wizard bunker for the +1.>>94106920Yeah... I hope you miscast.
>>94106959The Chaos Gods will be on the side of the strongest.
>>94106964Well I've learned my lesson and I'm not using my belakor anymore.
>>94106453>dwarf uber gunlineYes>VC spamming necromancers instead of vampiresAd other anons have mentioned, double edged sword>wood elves if focused on shooty and exploiting difficult terrainNot a thing really WE shooting was good but nothing that would win you games be high T, decent sv>>94106469Definitely true but terrain/opponent's mobility dependant. Also warlocks had only one spell and very often had magic items geared towards increasing chances of casting it properly/not blowing up, neglecting dispells. Never nad a problem with them personally.>>94106478Yeah, that was annoying
What can I do as a dwarf against a full-cavalry Bretonnian army?
>>94107102Lose
>>94107102>full-cavalry Bretonnian armyFind someone else to play with. Barring that, lots of cannons and guns>t. heterosexual bret player
>>94106453>dwarf gunline>VC spamming necromancers instead of vampires>wood elves focused on shooty and exploiting difficult terrainThis is all based and lore-accurate thoughever
>>94106453>dwarf gunlineIn 6e this is redundant. Sad little boring stunties.
I've missed every single restock of the only three bretonnian models I wanted: the questing knight paladin, new handmaiden, lady duuchard. I'm about to sell my body to afford them off ebay. Wish me luck.
>>94107227Dwarfs are m3, theyre fundamentally unable to play any other way. Even if dwarfs were the strongest melee army which would basically always win any combat they would still not actually be a very good melee army because they couldnt get into combat with anyone who doesent want to fight them.
>>94107308Please don't, anon. I'm sure if you can wait patiently for just a little while longer, you'll get them without having to sacrifice your chastity.
>>94107309Funny that GW learned fucking nothing from previous experience and stunties are still M3 snails. In MESBG "humanoids" are universally M6 with hobbits being M4 and dwarfs and goblins M5. 1" difference but you can finally make a fucking use out of your M stat. I wonder why GW brainlets are so averse of giving them M4.
>>94107308>lady duuchardThe one with mutant foot? Why don't you order yourself some nice print?
>>94107309>>94107377The biggest crime is slayers being M3, they should be at least M5 or M4 with Swiftstride because they are useless right now
>>94107377Its still a 1" difference in fantasy from the m4 of humans and orcs. The difference is in the access or rather lack of cav, chariots and monsters. A melee empire army isnt actually m4, its m7, the m4 infantry is there as a second wave/secondary threat to the knights or griffon.Lack of cav also translates to lack of fast cav, gyrocopters are fantastic, but they dont fulfill the same role as marauder horsemen or dark riders, they cannot threaten the backline in combat the same way. Dwarfs as a faction are slow and designed to be slow, this means they lack the tools to pressure the board properly without using their ranged firepower. Dwarfs are also expensive and therefore vulnerable to being swarmed if they move up the board. Which means you have a faction which ends up rewarded for defensive play by design. >>94107398Why? Beyond "Its a mechanical crutch they need because theyre not good" (which is a bad reason).If you want to make slayers better, remove the special rules and make them dirt cheap. The issue is that this weakness of dwarfs is exactly how dwarfs are "supposed to be", theyre slower than everyone else which is entirely reasonable and accurate to how they should be. Dwarfs work exactly how theyre suppoed to work, the conceptual design is just lame.
>>94107102Rangers and gyrocopters.
>>94107398>should be at least M5 or M4 with SwiftstrideSure, lets give mark of khorne dudes and savage orcs swifstride m6 while were at it. m7 witch elves why not.
>>94107435>The issue is that this weakness of dwarfs is exactly how dwarfs are "supposed to be"Naked dudes wanting to die should be faster than a heavily armored dude in a shieldwall formation
>>94107458If not wearing armor gives you movement why isnt this followed for every other race? Why arent free company m5 and so on?what actually should be (and iirc was) the case is that heavy armor should impose a penalty on movement, with some exceptional troops like chaos warriors (that are bonded to their armor) and ironbreakers/hammerers (that wear master crafted dwarf armor with centuries of experience) ignoring the penalty
>>94107470>what actually should be (and iirc was)There was a reason why it was removed in 6th, ie. universal slog which made cav even more superior not to mention flyers and monsters. Inability to get from A to B in reasonable time, inability to get The charge or even turn to face oncoming charge is not a good thing.
>>94107454This sounds good.
>>94107435>The difference is in the access or rather lack of cav, chariots and monsters.True but more the reason why dwarfs should have some special mechanics allowing them mobility. Alternate approach is obviously debuffing speed of your opponent which was A thing in The past and was totally ignored in most cases because when using anvil runes people went for even more ranged damage by default lol
>>94107308I got all 3 recasts for like 40 bucks lmao
>>94107548Tunneling might be a good option? Let units deploy sort of how miners do, emerging already up field to attack from different angles and avoid getting shot to bits by any enemy ranged units before theyre half way up the board.
>>94107516Im not going to argue its good game design, but it is how you should handle armor encumbrance/making light troops faster if you are going to do armor encumbrance/making light troops faster.
>>94107516No, full simulationism hellhole. Add equipment slowing units down, add stamina loss from things like marching or charging, add ammunition, add equipment degradation, add mechanisms for units misbehaving/needing officers to ensure they do what theyre supposed to (order of battle stuff). Fighting should be 10% of a game of warhammer, the rest should be your army falling apart on its own because simulationism.
>>94107435>>94107548>Dwarfs as a faction are slow and designed to be slowthere's different ways to achieve this though besides making their infantry hyper static in a game where almost everybody's infantry are already static.look at the warmaster solution to the same problem: dwarf infantry have the same max walk as everybody else's infantry. they just don't have cavalry or cheapshit screens like hounds, and have to rely on gyros or rangers/miners to have any hope of dealing with threats like artillery placed far back or skirmishing cav. that alone is enough to make them feel like a low mobility army compared to everybody else. the TOW version is really stacking multiple disadvantages on top of each other.
>>94107308I remember driving out to my james workshop store the day TOW launched so I could preorder that questing knight from their kiosk and skip the online waiting room only to find out that those specific models weren't releasing that weekend in the US despite everything else coming out. Then they released a week or two later without announcement so I didn't drive out again and failed to get one. Still haven't got one.
>>94107682But dwarfs ARE slower than humans or especially something like elves and skaven, even on the individual level. Its not a massive difference (its one inch slower than human infantry, hardly a big deal) but it is the case and frankly is how it should be.
>>94107694>hardly a big dealbeing 25% slower is a big deal, especially if the gameplay suffers for what is essentially a rpg-like racial modifier for immersion purposeswould having M4 drastically change the playstyle of a dwarf army? no, but M3 reinforces its most boring aspects of the gameplay for no real reasonif you want to portray dwarfs as slow, make them slow for when it comes to pursuing or fleeing or charging, not marching
>>94107682Yeah but warmaster dwarfs still have ld10 general which makes them move quite fast for an all infantry army. And dwarf melee infantry is annoyingly resilent and can take cavalry charges like a champ.
>>94107846For me it's because it's much easier to ignore GW's grimdark retcons for Bretonnia and I can just have my comfy fairytale army fighting hordes of monsters.
>>94105031Wow. I guess we should all switch over to playing AOS instead.
>>94107884>retconslel
>>94107823>if you want to portray dwarfs as slow, make them slow for when it comes to pursuing or fleeing or charging, not marchingYeah RPG stats in whfb are kinda the reason why many things don't work. Like elves paying premium for all m,WS,bs,I,Ld which on paper should five them an edge but it never really worked as intended. Dwarfs are a special case though.
>>94107921>brings out AoS out of nowhere>"no, we can only play GW supported games"Wow
>>94107823>for what is essentially a rpg-like racial modifier for immersion purposesThat is literally the foundation of WHFB and why it is how it is.
>>94107823They have M4 now in Bugman's Cart, has it made them superhuman?
>>94107927Nothing after 5th edition is canon
>>94107823Those inches of movement are fundamentally not the issue. The beer-cart that makes them m4 is not a massive game changer. The issue is their lack of cavalry/chariots/monsters which means theyre infantry speed and thus very slow. >not marchingBut theyre not, theyre good at marching, they can always march and have lots of drilled units.
>>94107964>That is literally the foundation of WHFBLmao you literally have I4 elves, I3 orcs and S5 humans right now. This foundation changes when rulesfag fancy it.
>>94107921R-tard
How wide should I run plague monks? They get a lot of attacks but if I go too wide then I lose them all to only providing supporting attacks
>>94107884Even in 6th it's not even half as grimdark as it's meme'd to be. The vast majority of the retarded evil nobles and stupid peasants lore comes from third party wfrp shit
>>94107823>>94107929>>94108098the flavor of wfb is the same reason some armies are pushed towards making gunlines or esoteric strategies. The WFB that matters (not TOW) is a movement game and having to guess ranges and charge distances was a huge part of it's strategy. Being able to capitalize on +1" or being penalized with dwarf movement is huge, and retards have always slobbered at the bigger numbers and shiny rules, when it's fundamentally a game that's won through movement and positioning. Dwarves pay the price and are forced into their very static gameplan but are instead rewarded with the prized T4, which if you play retard powerwankhammer translates into a much better statline than elves increased movement and ranges. But at that point you might as well pick up two action figures and mash them together whilst making gun noises with your mouth, WFBs' strenghts were never in the rules and big hero numbers
>>94107884Grimdark bretonnia is actually interestingif I wanted a perfectly squeaky clean war of the roses faction I'd play a historical wargame
>>94107964True, but not everything about how WHFB is positive.
>>94108165>retard powerwankhammer???
Infantry should buffed but flanking should be as well.Knights charging into the front of a block should be risky af without shinanigansBut hitting a flank with heavy cav should be a death sentance for the targetNagaroth as a setting should be more fleshed outDark elves should have access to the cute monstergirl options from age of cringemarThank you for attending my ted talk
>>94108127>>94107957Pease don’t be rude. Everyone was saying that TOW was bad so I was merely suggesting AOS as an alternative. I think you’ll be much happier over there.
>>94108165>and having to guess ranges and charge distances was a huge part of it's strategyIt wasnt beyond your 3rd game.
>>94107616Allow every unit of Miners you take to take one other infantry regiment with them, problem solved.
>>94108359Sure, that could work. Maybe have miners leave behind a marker where they emerge which lets other units just come out from the same tunnel.
>>94108322No, it's very strategic to "guess" 23" when firing your artillery at a unit on the other side of the table in order to "miss" and drop a template on a unit in combat. Wellington himself would be amazed.
>>94108322It's interesting how guess range can simultaneously be >totes NBD, easy peasy, why even bother it never even contributed beyond your third gameAND>a heinous imbalance, an unjustifiable imposition on the estimation-challenged, a completely game-breaking anachronism that must be purged lest the entire community collapse and the game die forever!depending entirely on what argument a lazy cheesebeard wants to dishonestly pretend to refute.
>>94108400It's a bit of both, the mechanic is based around obfuscating information, already a questionable decision for a TTWG, but then it doesn't even do that very well since it doesn't take that long to work it out, it's a bad mechanic that's "saved" by the fact it basically doesn't work on anybody except brand new players
>>94108400What you fail to realize is that the two points arent actually separate points, but rather part of the same argument which details the failure of guess ranges. Guess ranges are easy to learn and use, they therefore fail to provide the ambiguity and randomness they are supposed to provide. They at the same time provide an unbalancing factor where a newer player is unfairly disadvantaged not through their choices or tactical decisions but because they havent learned to eyeball 24" yet.Or to put it another way, making someone solve basic differential equations in order to hit would not be difficult, but a system in which the success of your unit relies on this trivial mathematical knowledge would be flawed and bad.
>>94108376I'd keep it simpler, one miner unit can take one other unit with them when they deploy - because IDK, the tunnel isn't stable enough to remain in play or whatever justification. Gives more interesting dilemmas when building your list since the more Special allowance you use up on miners to give you board control the less you have to spend on the sort of units you probably want to accompany them. A persistent tunnel you can keep chucking stuff through each turn would mean fewer compromises.
2 sorcerer lords and 3 exalted sorcerers would be too much for a 2000 point game, right? I really like chaos sorcerers and I want to run a lot of them, but I'm worried about the list being unfun to play against. The old chaos sorcerer sculpts are just so cool, I've got 2 of the ones from the 90s on the way now and I can't wait to add them to my collection. I'll have 4 undivided sorcerers once these new ones get delivered and I finish painting them.
>>94108463That also works. Or maybe a weapon team like attachment for various dwarf units that lets them work like miners, or a AoI which just lets them do that. I think theres a lot of different ways you could implement it to varying degrees of success/with varying levels of drawback, and I think it might allow dwarfs to be more aggressive without necessarily making their units "fast" in ways they as a faction cant be.
>>94108436>>94108456It can't be both. It's either easy or difficult. And the rest of your argument is equally as retarded, lots of aspects of the game are a mild challenge in your first few games but become second nature as you go on - movement, maneuver, managing Leadership etc - should they all be removed as well?Just be honest and say "I don't like it" instead of trying to construct these tottering rhetorical card houses that literally everybody can see through.
>>94108466Anon your army is terrible and is in no risk of becoming "overpowered" because you add some more battle magic wizards to run alongside your chaos warriors. 1000 points of chaos sorcerers leaves you with only 500pts for good combat units after your core tax.
>deletedKys tranny janny, that was a post made in earnest
>>94108466It would be a skew list but probably not very good. You're giving up dragons and fighting characters to basically dump all your eggs into one expensive basket, assuming you're doing the tzeentch skull bunker magic missile spam build. It's a trillion points into a foot unit that gets bodied by any reasonable combat threat.
>>94108456>Guess ranges are easy to learn and use>newer player is unfairly disadvantaged not through their choices or tactical decisions but because they havent learned to eyeball 24" yetOk, I have to ask. Do you reply spontaneously without giving a thought beforehand or are you really of that opinion?
>>94108483No one is calling it difficult. Its an arbitrary skill hump, but its not difficult, thats literally the problem. Its a barrier for new players which does nothing beyond that point. >lots of aspects of the game are a mild challenge in your first few games but become second nature as you go on - movement, maneuver, managing Leadership etcNo part of those things requires some external skill to basic decision making. Your ability to move your units or maneuver or whatever else is dependent purely on player skill and your decision making, rather than an unrelated ability.
>>94107564
>>94108494He does it for free
>>94108513Which part of that is confusing to you? Something might be easy to learn, but it still takes learning. There will be a period - maybe one game, maybe half a dozen, maybe 20, maybe 100, it doesent matter - where a newer player is at a disadvantage beyond any decision or strategy against someone else while they learn the distances (and the system provides a level of randomness) and then beyond that point the system stops providing that randomness/having any effect once they learn it. That is a bad system. You may as well have a cannon require reciting Pi to 12 decimal places.
wonder when we will get TOW RPG news they did say we would see info "soon" in August
>>94108491>>94108509Thank you for the advice, anons. I actually wasn't going to give them the mark of Tzeentch, because I've been really enjoying painting my character with black and gold and the other colors of chaos undivided and it wouldn't feel right to give them a mark that didn't correspond to how they look. I do have one sorcerer of tzeentch though, but he almost never gets to see the battlefield these days. I'll keep your words in mind for the future, though. I'm sure my sorcerers will lead their warriors to victory one day.
>>94108515Do you're saying that estimating ranges/lenghts is an outside skill. So is counting, decision making, ability to stand upright, ability to actually put models together and paint them, ability to read, etc. Anon do you have autism? Genuine question. Because what you describe as a barrier is literally one of the most basic life skills and might appear difficult for someone challanged.
>>94108553Hopefully never. Fuck wfrp
>>94108483It's not difficult to anybody except brand new players, and unlike those other aspects which require learning the game systems and mechanics and can be worked out through tactical thinking it's an entirely practical skill which just doesn't work in the game of wits that Wargames should be.>Just be honest and say "I don't like it"I don't think it should be something somebody needs to learn in order to get good at Wargames, for me it's akin to making somebody run a sub nine minute mile in order to march their troops, if you think that's fine then that's on you but I disagree
>>94108564>Do>lenghts>challangedI think you're the "challanged" one anon
Oh I see sperganon got his coom tier ranking image deleted and so now he's shitting up the thread, excellent
>>94108576if you want WFRP to fuck off then you want TOW RPG to succeed
Tell me about /yourdudes/ in autistic detail
>>94108564Decision making is not an outside skill, it is the core skill. Model assembly is an outside skill, but it also doesent affect your ability to play the game, Your models looking like shit work make them perform worse, that badly assembled cannon with a gap big enough to fit anons penis inside will fire the same as a properly made and painted one.
>>94107564Only GW customers, whose holes has been widen for so many years they don't feel anything anymore, can be happy about coughing up $40 for 3 tiny mass produced plastic dudes and still feel like they got a bargain.
Can I ask you guys what model this is? Never seen it before, is it a GW sculpt? Think it would make a sweet standard for my army
Aaargh! Which one do I buy?
>>94108796Which looks cooler to you?do you like mobs and fanatics or cannons?
>>94108796Do you like orcs, or do you like dwarfs? Do you already have orcs? Do you already have dwarfs?Answer these questions and you will find the answer you seek.
>>94108824I have none and like both, this is the first box I will buy since like 2005
>>94108841Then flip a coin, and if you don't like the answer it gives you, you will have found your answer.
>>94108796Genuinely can't go wrong with either. Because of that I'd advise you buy one of the foot heroes first for both factions, paint them and whichever you enjoyed more buy into that army first
>>94108796You have to buy less dwarf stuff than ork stuff if that matters to you
>>94108796If you want orcs just go get them second hand, they're common as muck
>originally a large group of Errants who joined Baron Cyricus Carrard's call to arms at court in Quenelles>survived the initial foray into the Land of the Dead and ensuing battles with Septhah the Amarinthine>Baron Carrard definitely bit off more than he could chew and was NOT a tactician>everything went to shit fast; survivors regrouped in the Border Princes, this time under Sir Cecil Gastonne>narrowly survived the Battle of Matorea with Settra (leaving the results of the battle open for interpretation until we have a canon result, narrow Bretonnian victory?)>now not only are they all full-fledged knights, but hardened veterans, having survived both campaigns in the south>circumstances (greenskins) forced them to take an alternate route back into Bretonnia>ended up waylaid in Tilea for several years, where they worked as mercenaries; /mybaron/ becomes the leader of the group as first among equals, and /mypaladin/ is the paymaster>at one point in their travels they inadvertently rescued a Dwarf Expeditionary Force under attack by greenskins and were rewarded with a fucknasty prototype Great Cannon (Border Princes Bombard) that they nicknamed Belladonna, after a fat, cannon-sized Tilean prostitute who once accosted their men>at this point, rather than return home to Bretonnia, they're more taken with the mercenary life of adventure, and are gathering men and resources to carve out a hold of their own in the Border Princes>their men are well-equipped and better looked after than the average Bretonnian peasant force, as /mybaron/ knows from experience the importance of morale and needs every man he can get>also have a ratio of ~2.5 peasants:1 knight>they're currently in the employ of a totally fucking insane Estalian pyromancer who keeps a baby wyvern as a petYou'll have to play against me to hear me the lore of my characters, but my leader's name is Jean Pointu, after John Hawkwood's mistranslated nickname, so that should tell you what I'm going for here.
>>94108665Leaders Lore: Son of a Caledoran knight and Avelornian princess, his father died defending his family from DE when he was a boy. He loves his mothers homeland and proud of his fathers history but feels unwelcome in the later and guilty in the former. Took his fathers dragon to a outpost in Southern Nagaroth in what is roughly real world Mexico ( Wyvern Lake or so) to be a pain in the ass for the DE and some diplomacy to the lizardmen and man coloniesArch-mage: Is my old IoB archmage. Just a sage who has seen EVERYTHING. Even was in mordheim a short time. Saphery bornElf Lord henchman: Impetuious and bold knight, and friend of the prince of Avelorn stock. Was a diplomat. Got "promoted" to warden of the outpost after he called a dwarf emmisary every gamer word in the book. But frankly sending a guy who owns a cloak of beards to Barak Var was a dumb idea on their part anyways.All 3 think Tyrion is an insufferable cunt and are closer to the Everqueen than the Pheonix King.
>>94103278Neat!
>>94108540but newer players being at a disadvantage is good? That means that with experience you become a better player, and you don't leave charges depending on the whim of the dice. It's a win-win sperg-kun
>>94109272No, arbitrary barriers of entry are bad. If you want to castle in chess you do not need to recite the square root of Pi. Both players should be in the same position, with the differences in outcome coming down to better choices made (skill).>and you don't leave charges depending on the whim of the diceDeterministic charges are bad and lead to boring "I move 9.99" away to be 10.1" away from you and therefore outside of your charge range" shenanigans. Its a terrible system on basically every front.
>>94107435>WhyDwarves were m3 because they never suffered -1m for wearing heavy armor.No one suffer -1m nowadays, yet dwarves are still m3.This is newer designer not understanding legacy codes, not a feature.
>>94109272Newer players being disadvantage shouldn't be a goal of game design, just the reality of getting good at something.
https://suno.com/song/a6a2295d-d69a-48ac-a2c9-7e2fa2f229fe
My WIP forsaken. Are they too spawn like?
>>94109459Those look great
>>94109327>Deterministic charges are bad and lead to boring "I move 9.99" away to be 10.1" away from you and therefore outside of your charge range" shenanigans.Stop posing as someone who has ever played the game you dumb retard. No one was ever perfect at gauging ranges like you suggest: failed charge, being out of range for magic or shooting is an everyday battle experience for noobs and veterans alike. Mayby you do have some sort of mental deficiency and project your own insecurities on others under the guise of "new players" strawman but no, people are not as dumb as you are. People catch on quickly with rules and all aspects of gameplay (unless they are morons like you) and all your nonsense about vets having some sort of super precise measuring device inbuilt in their head is pure lunacy. As other anon have said: admitt you just don't like it and fucking move on instead of spewing shit that makes no sense.
>>94109629Anon subtracting distances isnt very fucking hard. You know how far the other guy moved, you know how you were previously, you know how far away he is now exactly.
>>94109629>As other anon have saidWe all know it was you, you have a very distinctive writing style that combines ESL spelling mistakes with the same insults rolled out over and over
>>94109618ty!
>>94109327It's fine in other games with more complex unit positioning, activation systems and abilities and resources that change threat ranges. Rank and flank doesn't offer those things, generally.
>>94109644Ah, so you finaly say that it's not very fucking hard but yet it is some dreadful barrier for a new player. Wow.
stop samefagging jesus christ
>>94109673>We all know it was youAnd so you enter the schizo phase
>>94109327>arbitrary barriers of entry are badNo, they are not.
>>94109698"it does nothing so its fine" is certainly an interesting one. But also: The fact that something is easy or difficult does not change that it is a barrier which should not be there. Playing with a proverbial fog of war for a couple games and then playing normally afterwards is bad design regardless of the intention of guess measurements.
>>94109447This. They might be worse at the game because they lack understanding or skills, but adding arbitrary barriers like correctly guessing distance to further disadvantage them is bad have design. >>94109629>No one was ever perfect at gauging ranges like you suggestExcept all you need is basic math and memory a lot of times, since a lot of things will be measured at some point. Which leads to gamey things like writing notes about distance.
>>94108759doesn't look like a citadel modeldoesn't even look like a kev adam goblin
>>94109726Great. In your next game before you want to cast magic you need to go solve a Tradle, if you dont get it you fail the cast.
>>94109730>It does nothing, therefore we should keep itIt's peak bad game design. Lol>>94109726I'll play your arbitrary guessing game, but I expect you to stand on one leg for all my dice roles, or I'm allowed to reroll the ones I don't like.
>>94109737found itI think there's a scan of it too judging by some photos online
>>94109742Do you have a driving license anon? Do you randomly bump into things? Do you reach for objects that appear to be close but are actually beyond your arm's lenght?
>>94109761Looks better with paint. That's an awkward pose for the banner though.
>>94109769You should really learn how to write length properly if you're going to keep using that word
Learning rules is an arbitrary barrier that disadvantages new players therefore there should be no rules.
>>94109803>arbitraryYou should probably look up words before trying to use them in an argument measurement-kun. Lol
>>94109769That is actually a good point. What about people who only have one eye, or whatever that condition is that makes it so they can't perceive depth?
Is the girlboss bretonnia book the only TOW fiction so far?
>>94109841They should just get good. I also exclusive play with extra large dice to keep people with small hands away from my table.
>>94109841>What about people who only have one eye
Man Swordmasters are utter garbage, 15ppm for a t3 5+ 6++ that dies to bows like a bitch? that's awful
Man Swordmasters are amazing, 15ppm for a ws6 S5 that kills heavy cav before they can swing on their own charge? that's great
>>94109868Middenland is lost to the Empire.
Hey guys I just charged Swordmasters with my I3 Heavy Cav and they all died???!!!??? what da hell???!!!??? Anyway I like pink flavour crayons the best
>>94109873>>94109892You're both wrong. Swordmasters are in a good/bad super position based on how well my opponent can guess distances.
>>94109853that was released under TOW then yes. no announce other books either which is somewhat weird
>>94109841They are a lot of clues to depth even with monocular vision.
>>94109873They really suck vs. heavy chariots and any T6+ monster. No real point in any of the classic high elf elite infantry sadly.I do think the high elf chariots are themselves very good. 90 points for the silly flying chariot is crazy: fly (10), swiftstride, close order, d3+1 S5 AP-2 impact hits, 3 WS4 S4 AP-1 attacks from the crew, 2 WS5 S4 AP-2 attacks from the eagle. Somewhat vulnerable to shooting but you can put a character on them, you can put bolt throwers on them and 2 for 180 charging together is just a great deal.
>>94109993>They really suck vs. heavy chariots and any T6+ monster. No real point in any of the classic high elf elite infantry sadlySo what in your opinion can counter such threats, monstrous mounts notwithstanding?
>>94109993Man Skycutters are utter garbage, 115ppm for a t4 4+ that dies to bows like a bitch? that's awful
>>94110023Base chariots definitely aren't immune to shooting and high elves get decent shooting, but I think you're SHOOTING yourself in the foot, haha, if you don't bring some dragons as a helf player. Unless you specifically expect to be facing some kind of monster hunting army. You probably have the most resistant dragons to monster slayer too with those spammable 2+ ward amulets.If you don't want to bring your own dragons high elves do have all the tools to play a good keep away game: good selection of flying units, good selection of cavalry, skirmishers. You can feed the enemy dragon whatever you don't mind losing and defeat the rest of their army in detail. Ofc, this is why now most dragon lists are bringing 2 dragons (or more!).
>>94110039It's Fly (10) lol it never has to get shot if you don't want it to
>>94110039Fear the skycutter, anon! High elves can put their wizards in those things and then they can chase your chaos sorcerer all around the battlefield, never letting him escape! And they have a lot of wounds and good saves so your sorcerer won't be able to use his arcane might to kill it in time!
>>94110039The bolt thrower seems kind of counterintuitive so I'd just leave it off and keep them at 90pts.
>>94110052You mean there some way you can position your units to mitigate enemy shooting?Wow. You most be some sort of super genius. Do you have a YouTube or Twitch I can follow?
>>94110101Yeah I do thanks for asking, it's twitch.tv/fuckyourmother
>>94110101>You mean there some way you can position your units to mitigate enemy shooting?No, there's none. Everything dies to bow fire.
A Fly(10) Chariot can avoid bowfire, that means that M5 Infantry can too, I am very smart
We get it, you're both bad at the game AND passive aggressive. Go shit your pants somewhere else. Lol
>>94110228Speaking of the Fly rule, I've been trying to figure out if Steed of Shadows and Arcane Urgency can be used together to allow an infantry regiment to fly twice in one turn, theoretically allowing the regiment to fly-march up to 48 inches! From what I understand, Steed of Shadows lasts until the start of the next turn, and Arcane Urgency only requires the regiment to have already moved. Would this not mean that such a thing would be possible? And is that not incredibly powerful? I suppose it would be difficult to keep the wizards within range of the regiment, but what if the wizards has joined the regiment? Would fly-marching 48 inches even be a viable tactic?
>>94108967>>94108665I got so caught up in my autism I forgot your (You)
>>94109087>high elf colony in NaggarothWtf? This is even weirder than the dorf hold in the middle of the fucking chaos wastes
>>94109459These are sick as fuck (literally)Bonus points if that severed head on that hammer spike is still alive somehow due to Nurgle magic
>>94110403Both exist actually in loreArnheim, as seen on the map thereand norse dwarves in norsca
>>94110403wasne't Naggorth originally a High elf Colony that Malakith fled to after fleeing from Ulthuan?stands to reason that it was a minor location beneath notice before that and the High elves upgraded the garrison before it could be destroyed
>>94109087>Got "promoted" to warden of the outpost after he called a dwarf emmisary every gamer word in the book. But frankly sending a guy who owns a cloak of beards to Barak Var was a dumb idea on their part anyways.I like to imagine it was a genuine promotion rather than an exile. Nobody tells off the stunties enough
>>94110454If Malekith has the resources to almost level Ulthuan repeatedly, I'd think his pride wouldn't allow a fucking outpost of his archenemy right on his border. No chance in hell it'd last the week if he knew about it. Maybe it's *le sekret outpost* that they cloak with magic somehow, but that's still insane.
>>94110474Heh, true, the chud elf lords probably legitimately found it amusing enough to give him a promotion in earnest.>>94110501>>>/lgbt/
>>94110485>If Malekith has the resources to almost level Ulthuan repeatedlyHahaha
So while building beastmen I learned 2 thingsThe size jump from ungor to gor is really large, which makes sense but surpizes meThe jump from gor to bestigor is oddly small.
>>94110485it's pretty far from where most Dark Elves on Naggaroth live and going by the map seems to be overwatched by Black Hold Fortressbut for all we know it might have been torn down multiple times but Ulthuan movement view it a an important outpost on Naggarothuntil some writer get around to fleshing it out I don't think we have any lore on it besides "it exist on maps"
>>94110542>>94110485Yeah its why on my headcannon I put the outpost nearer to mexico/panama. Close enough to the lizards for trade and to annoy parties of druchi going south looking for cold ones
So what does an helf list without a dragon look like?
>>94110504What does /lgbt/ have to do with any of this? Don’t get me wrong its a great board with amazing and beautiful people but what do they have to do with why you all ain’t playing Age of Sigmar?
>>94110559actually I made a "fun" list around that up here >>94103069No clue if its good but its a themed alternative to my more well rounded list
Why shouldn’t I make a gunline orcs and goblins army? 3-4 rock lobbas and 8-10 spear chukkas. What’s the downside here? Am I missing something obvious?
>>94110560Don't worry xister, we are winning.I went down to my local game's workshop where I saw a 50 rich families wanting to buy age of sigmar. The children were excitedly looking at the stormcasts and saying "They look like me!" (some of them were eggs ready to crack like i was at that age) but then some evil chuds said "That game isn't very fun, try whfb or ToW" with his problematic bretonnians (the glorification of catholics is how we get nazi games like trench crusade). And then his skaven playing incel friend said "We'd be happy to teach you a demo", no doubt to groom these kids into neo's like them.All the parents who were going to buy spearhead boxes backed away and were looking at the ToW games. Thats when I knew I had to do something. So I shouted "TRUMP IS A CONVICTED FELON" at the top of my lungs. This woke the parents out of their stupor and half of them bought 3 boxes of spearhead each, most of the kids joined my discord, and the rest clapped.
>>94110559you mean like an incomplete list where you still have to pen in your dragon lord?
>>94110588No, arrer boyz represent an awesome hybrid threat
Which HE honours are even worth taking? Shadow Stalker with reaver bow is kinda nice vs low armour targets, pure of heart is obvious but what about the test? Loremaster being lvl1 wizard looks not so great, Blood of Caledor is useless, PG upgrade is just for Phoenix unlock. What else there is?
>>94110624It depends on what you want them to do and bring.Remember a LOT lock you out of mounts and many make specials core and rares special
>>94110624I wish I was even 1% as cool as that not-chaos warrior.
>>94110588Rule of three.But other than that go nuts. I would lean into lobbers and doom divers. Spear chuckas are nice and cheap but without indirect fire options you may run out of good targets. Especially as your other artillery also likes large targets.
>>94110628General question about utility. Trying to find out what options are viable.
>>94110639Does TOW have the rule of 3? I don't recall seeing it
>talks about adding cathay and kieslev in promotional material>now says they aren't coming anytime soonThis has got to be some kind of fraud right?
>>94110600I like it, I wish there was a better option than just getting 16-20 arrer boyz in a box. >>94110639Ok 3 rock lobbas, 3 doom divers, 6 spear chukkas at 2k? I was thinking about using a few shamans at throw up columns of crystal to slow the enemy advance. I know dragons can’t fly over the columns as they are infinitely tall, but can indirect artillery shoot towards the other side of the crystal column? I am loving the thought of a goblin kamikaze flying into the stratosphere over the column and then diving down towards a dragon.
>>94110708It doesn't. But it's ubiquitous in tournaments to stop unit spamming. If you're not worried about buying competitive then it's not something you have to worry about.
>>94109087>All 3 think Tyrion is an insufferable cunt and are closer to the Everqueen than the Pheonix King.Is Tyrion and Teclis even in ToW? I know Allierielles mother is currently the everqueen
>>94110732>I like it, I wish there was a better option than just getting 16-20 arrer boyz in a box.Yeah it sucks, on the flip side if you sell the 20 2HW boyz for £30 you make back over over half the box>crystal column>3 rock lobbas, 3 doom divers, 6 spear chukkas at 2kyou're limited to 2 rock lobbas, 2 doom divers and 4 spear chukkas at 2k in tOW, also if you're playing tOW then arrer boyz are even better since they can take bows and shields
>>94110769>you’re limited to It’s over. The dream is dead.
>>94110748TOW is a rules source all the "lore" goes to the garbage bin. Anyway, yes they are alive but are not yet Champion and High Loremaster respectively.
>>94110777>8 warmachines at 2k isn't enoughMaybe you should consider playing a different game?
>>94110795So at this point they are just some smug cunt and a cripple? >>94110798Not him but feels in character for a dwarf player
>>94110769>playing tOW then arrer boyz are even better since they can take bows and shieldsYeah, they are the best swordmaster killing unit in the game.
>>94110801>smug cuntEh????why
>>94110769>arrer boyz are even betterNight goblins are 50% cheaper.And don't need a Thinking Hat minder. And can take fanatics, which are nice in a shooting heavy list. >>94110732On top of what he said, remember that the opponent gets two chances to dispel the Column, before they move. Miasmic Mirrage is going to be you go to.
>>94110802Unironically yeah, the Swordmasters never make their points back in combat and won't be getting to combat in one piece anyway, and for the most part Helves S3 shooting doesn't really pose a threat to T4 5+
>>94110802Lmao.I think I'm going to use: >Dies to arrows And>Kills swordmasters As my only two points for evaluating units when discussing things online. Or maybe talking about how bad ruby ring is
>>94110798I just wanted to fill the skies with bolts and rocks
>>941105606.5/10 bait
>>94110816>Night goblins are 50% cheaper.Night Goblins are also more than 50% worse imo, T3 and no armour save makes them much less tough and WS2 and no Choppaz means they can't pose a potential melee threat either, also shortbows are generally worse than warbows since it'll increase the times you'll be hitting on 5's rather than 4's, you make a fair point about fanatics but you are taking blorcs right? right?
>>94110832Ruby Ring kills Swordmasters and does not die to arrows, it's literally perfect
>>94110624If you have the guts to run a foot hero then loremaster is amazing. 35pts for lvl1 wizard who can also fight and take arcane items is a steal.
>>94110819>Helves S3 shooting doesn't really pose a threat to T4 5+Last game I played HElves they shot three 6 wound, t5, 5+, 5++, 5+++ models off the board before Turn 5.
>>94110853How'd they manage that?
>>94110813Tyrion is not a very nice guy in lore. Even among Asur he's a bit of a dickhead
>>94110819Good thing HE are excellent at magic and there's plenty of movement and protection spells allowing swordmasters to close the gap quickly or make them relatively save vs shooting. Or even completely immune to non magical shooting.
>>94110889That's from BL books?
>>94110853Ruby Ring, fireball, Wind Blast, Pillar of Fire, Sea Guard, Shadow Warriors, Reavers, two bolt throwers.Probably would have been even worse if they had rolled plague of rust.
>>94110918Good job then that the OnG player also has 1800pts worth of other shit including impact hits, dirt cheap war machines and blorcs that helves don't really have an answer to, helves without dragons lose to OnG every time, it's a shitty army
>>94110868>>94110933Whoops
>>94110940>goalposts in lotionLmao, standard>no answer to black orcsDouble Lmao
>>94110933So 3 magic missile, a vortex and 2 bolt throwers? Would that even make its points back shooting orcs?
>>94110940Ethereal and better wizards is the answer to a lot of that. >blorcsLiterally die to swordmasters 0/10 unit.
Not convinced about Swordmasters desu, isn't T3 a huge liability?
>>94110966Pillars of fire would fuck orcs up.Ruby Ring makes it's points back against everything in the game iirc.
>>94110918Isn't it weird how human wizards only got worse at casting spells after Teclis founded the colleges of magic? Why, in the time before the colleges, wizards were casting spells as often as they wanted, mixing lores however they pleased and only miscasting very rarely! It just doesn't make sense. Could Teclis be an agent of Tzeentch who surreptitiously sabotaged the entire human race? Or maybe he's not so good at magic after all.
>>94110986It's a liability in shooting. But t3 doesn't matter much when you hit first against most things or trade favorably with the few things fast enough to hit simultaneous. They aren't significantly weaker to fire than a lot of stuff in their price range. Screening them from shooting isn't a big issue outside of the few things that can indirect fire.
>>94110986Not really? its not like youre going to have better in an elf army. And at i7 ws6 S5 Ap-2 with exploding 6s they have one of the highest damage outputs of basically anything and will go before basically anything even when charged. They also have a ward save against shooting.
>>94110977>better wizardsElf wizards can cast on a +5?>Literally die to swordmasters 0/10 unit.Hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, 5+ save, each attack has about a 30% of wounding, blorcs take some wounds for sure but when they're swinging back 2 attacks each, hitting on 4's, wounding on 1's or 2's and dropping armour to 6+ or nothing blorcs do more damage and for cheaper
>>94110999*over 4 turns assuming it's not dispelled
>>94111043>2 attacksIf they got the charge. And even then they still lose point for point on a multi turn grind, barely winning on the turn they charged.
>>94111043>but when they're swinging back 2 attacks eachTheyre not. They get 1 attack each, because elves are faster and thus get the charge more often than not. >5+ armormeans that orcs are using at least 50% shields, which means theyre Ap-
>>94111043>thinks that motley crew works like this>wounding on 1's>Blorcs naturally get the charge>"more damage for cheaper" Hahahaha
>>94111043>>94111209>>94111073>>9411112510vs10vs 3+ armor11*2/3*1/2*2/3+11*2/3*1/6 = 3.7 vs 4+ armor11*2/3*1/2*5/6+11*2/3*1/6 = 4.3On the charge with orcs, half shields half GW (optimal loadout)6*1/2*14/18*5/6+7*1/2*35/36= 5.3Not on the charge:3*1/2*2/3*2/3+4*1/2*5/6 = 2.3If only shieldsCharge13*1/2*14/18*5/6 =4.2no charge7*1/2*2/3*2/3=1.5if only GWcharge13*1/2*35/36 = 6.3no charge7*1/2*5/6 =2.9
>>94110419Thank you!
>>94111216Swordsmasters win if they charge, lose when they get charged. Assuming shields/mixed composition the difference between the two results favors the swordsmasters in the slugging match. Shield blorcs are however 1ppm cheaper than swordsmasters (13ppm vs 14ppm)Swordsmasters are 1m faster and as such more likely to get the charge against black orcs. An infantry unit has a roughly 30% chance to make a max range charge and a 55% chance to make a 5" charge.Swordsmasters will on average win out against black orcs.
>>94110542>the Broken Landswhat goes on here?
>>94111272*kills your swordmaster with 5ppm arrer boy*
>>94111272NTA but isn't killing elite infantry supposed to be Swordmasters thing? How come they only just seem to beat Black Orcs barely?
>>94111272Swordmasters are I7 when charged and up to 10 when charging. Charging orks are I6 at best .
>>94111304Because his numbers and analysis is shit. Also Blorcs and SM have almost identical cost.
>>94111294An arrer boy does 1/3*1/2*2/3*5/6 or 0.09 wounds per shot assuming not short range (12" for the warbow)/standing and shooting, a stationary shooter and no cover in the way. >>94111304Because Black orcs are very very good (stupidly overtuned even). Swordsmasters "thing" also varies a whole lot depending on edition, in 8th they were more for killing lots of lighter infantry while white lions were the can openers. Which I suppose they still are, except their durability in combat has been rather gutted. >>94111315Correct, this reduction in damage (around 4 dead orcs before they attack) is already included, and is why they dont get 21 attacks on the charge but 13.>>94111327>Also Blorcs and SM have almost identical cost.SM are 14ppmBlorcs are 12ppm base and can buy shields for 1ppm or great weapons for 2ppm (or both I guess). Their comparable cost has also already been mentioned.
>>94111315He accounts for the casualties and the lost attacks in the maths, you did read his post right?>>94111327Oh what's wrong with the maths?
>>94111272Even if swordsmasters lose when charged, they usually aren't losing by enough to force a FBIGO, so win the next round. Black Orcs also do worse if they aren't in a maximum frontage situation. >>94111294I'm sure we can math that one out too.
these math arguments always make the thread angry and sadScrew the math! Direct your warriors as best you can, then allow the roll of the die to determine their fate! Why worry about statistics and averages and all that nonsense when it won't actually matter in a game? 6 turns, of which probably only 3 will involve combat, means that average results don't matter as much as you think they do.
>>94111399>when it won't actually matter in a game?It does matter because you need to know roughly how your guys match up against their guys in order to>Direct your warriors as best you can
>>94111347>>94111389Math is for fags no wonder you all play elves
Reminder that math is a barrier for new players, an outside skill that puts them at disadvantage. It is as bad as guessing ranges.
>>94111389>Even if swordsmasters lose when charged, they usually aren't losing by enough to force a FBIGO, so win the next round.Yes. Which is why swordsmasters will usually win the combat in the end.>Black Orcs also do worse if they aren't in a maximum frontage situation.Only if they charge/they use 2HW (which isnt something I considered because no one fucking does it). But I dont think that sort of frontage discrepancy is super likely to happen with any realistic unit size. Its a 6:5 ratio.
>>94111411You know, that's actually a good point. Disregard my post, I am a fool who should not be giving out advice.
>>94111427One who brought up mathammer (wrongly) argues in favour of orcs. And yes O&G players are THE fags of this game, title that was take from the dwarfs. Never thought I'd see the day .
>>94111399>Why worry about statistics and averages and all that nonsense when it won't actually matter in a game?Because that IS "direct them as best as you can". Knowing the statistics and the averages is how you make the correct play "on average". Its how you know whether a given combat is favored or disadvantaged, how you know when and where you need buffs or debuffs or where youre going to bulldoze through anyways, whether to concentrate fire or to let things be.
>>94111476Do you think its the same guy who thought the ruby ring was bad because he could just take 10 goblins?
>>94111476Them and Bretonnians
>>94111484I have to assume that guy was trolling
>>94111476I don’t understand your San Francisco lingo. Speak English you fucking elf faggot
>>94111523I wouldnt count out him being serious. People who are very confidently wrong in situations where the maths is just out there are common in all sorts of strategy games (or even just any games with builds/maths).
>>94111294I did maths and it also does not go too well for Arrow boys. If we look at 10 Swordsmasters vs 30 arrow boys both ten wide, they kill 1.85 swordsmasters at long range or in a stand and shoot or 50% more at close range. So assuming things go perfectly for them, they kill about six and a half swords Masters before they get in the close combat. But on the other end, there's a better chance that swordmasters March from outside long range to inside close range, and arrow boys fail impetuous and never get to shoot at all.
>>94107876yeah exactly. so they still function as an army without losing the unique feel.
>>94111442Idiot that you are you still don't understand the difference between a mechanic that exists to facilitate the game and a mechanic that just serves as an obstacle to play it.
>>94111484>>94111523>>94111532 I am ruby red ring hater anon, no I am not orc anon. I still think ruby red ring is bad but the thread is already being derailed so I'm sticking out of it.
Dragon auditions for my high elvesSo far its this guy or a mantic dragon.
>>94112007I highly recommend checking out RAFM miniature's fiery serpent of terror. The picture on their website is very low quality and blrury, but the lost minis wiki has a very clear photograph. It's reasonably priced, too! It's waiting for me whenever I get to go back to my home sometime this Christmas.
A dark elf gf would cuck you faster than your I3 could even reactWould a wood elf or High elf be a better waifu?Bretts like the latter a lot
>>94112261>dark elf gf would cuck you faster than your I3 could even reactThen you get the fun of slapping her and the other elf's pathetic T3 around. Before fucking them both.
>>94097361Might be able to get on a bitz site? Does suck though, that kit ha so many critters but too high a price point, I've bought Underworlds boxes before for just a few of the models but not a big centrepiece fig.
>>94099020feels to be right
>>94112467feels good* damnit. 5am painting hit different
>>94112007Reaper as some sick retro dragons.
>>94099193>>94099684I've grabbed two boxes to make a unit of 18 (tzeentch). They have enough bitz options and I plan to do some kitbashing to not end up with two of any one dude.
>luv midhammer horrors>can only find the oldhammer metals or AoS plastics for saleWhy the FUCK.
>>94112623They are a nightmare to put together and very small.
>>94112665Don't care, they're the only model that looks like it's in a constant state of mutation as described. Just gimme 'em.
>>94112476Gloss varnish for the gems?
>>94112794yes, you can see the lamp's circle light
>>94111518Not every Bret player is a flying circus + Green Knight + Duchaard + GK WAACvirgin
>>94112007I like this one
>>94097234Or they could just bring back dice
>>94113294The WAAC bret lists don’t run Elisse or grail knights.
>>94112476Your painting makes me actually appreciate the newer sculpts. Good shit.
>>94109459I'm having a hard time getting the details but from what I can see they look groovy as hell.
>>94108759>>94109761Lel, thought it was some weird chaos monstrosity 'til I saw the painted version.
>>94108665Alrighty then>El Don Bigote is a minor estalian noble who due to reading too many novels about bretonnian chivalric quests, the harsh estalian sun and/or drinking too much shoddy (by tilean standards) estalian wine decided to embark on a knightly quest of his own.>After making a nuisance of himself in the countryside, he was told by the miller’s guild (who were one of the many he had bothered) that the lands of Tilea were full of adventure and damsels in need of rescue by a knight such as he. They provided him with an escort of pikemen (the so called “Agirre’s Devil’s) and pointed him where to go.>Once there, he was swiftly employed by one or another merchant and noble house, mainly to keep him from causing too much trouble with his “chivalric quest”. After a while of working for different employers, he finally set himself in the semi-permanent employ of Pavona, or more accurately; the employ of Lucrezzia Belladonna, Pavona’s ruler.>El Don Bigote believes that he’s found a damsel worthy of his heroic feats, a fact that the lady of the city has decided to use in her benefit. So, he and his company march to further Lucrezzia’s goals, though being a mercenary army, they do tend to embark on other lucrative enterprises.
>>94108665>>94113715And because no DoW army is complete without its paymaster>Uccello "The Greedy" is one of the men who keep El Don Bigotes quirkier tendencies in check, as well as serving as the company’s paymaster. Two things can be said about him; that he’s quite tight fisted when it comes to the money and that he’s as vain as a peacock.>Uccello claims that the feathers on his helmet belong to a gryphon, though they come from a species of giant, flightless bird that inhabits a small island to the east of the Southlands. No one is sures why they lack predators, some claiming that it’s due to the horrid taste of their flesh, while others insist it's due to some innate magical property. Whatever it may be, the feathers do seem to offer some sort of protection to the paymaster (reflected in game as a Talisman of Preservation).
>>94113715>>94113749Anything Estalia or Tilea-related is guaranteed based
What are you working on? I found a giant + bits for cheap on Ebay and am bashing together a chaos Siege Giant - feedback welcome
>>94113749Do my eyes deceive me or is that Mydas the Mean?Do you have the wagon as well or just Mydas?
>>94113898Cool looking chaos troll Anon. Can't wait to see how it develops.
Fresh Bread>>94114024>>94114024>>94114024
