>>94115749
>How much time do you usually devote to downtime in your chronicles?
Almost none. Most of our games are short chronicles where we deal with a single scenario and move on.

>>94115749
Are you bitter the Curseborne thread turned into actual discussion of the game and not just bitching like you wanted?

>>94115749
With Bloodlines 2 being dead on arrival, should they make a Curseborne video game?

>>94116061
Paradox won't, they're abandoning RPGs and most likely the entire World of Darkness franchise after Bloodlines 2.
This will make Curseborne the only supported urban horror game in the TTRPG market, which will bolster its popularity and might eventually lead to video games.

>>94116179
You read the article wrong. They're done with RPG video games, they intend to hold onto the World of Darkness license and pump out sourcebooks until you die.

>>94115749
Tell me about werewolves in Curseborne. If they are not equally as retarded as the Garou I will have no interest in this setting.

>>94116251
Why would they do that?
All TTRPGs other than D&D do not generate profit. They're financial black holes that only exist as passion projects and can only reliably be supported with crowd-funding.
Paradox's World of Darkness is no different and unless Fredrik Wester is a diehard WoD fan who wants to keep WoD going as a passion project, Paradox has no reason not to shut down development of WoD as a TTRPG if they're no longer using it to serve as a lore bible for video games.

>>94116284
that's still what they say in the article they are only moving away from rpg video games

means Harebrained Schemes is not gonna do anything interesting ever again but not much else

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Predictions:
> a "Make your own Clan" system, to allow for classic WoD vampire clans
> an in-universe organization that's aimed at giving a party of any supernaturals reasons to work together.
> Human mages will have powers on-par with those of vampire powers.
> No mention of a cosmic bureaucracy, ghosts just stick around because they have unfinished business.
> None of the creatures will have mechanics that compel players to compromise their morality, or if they do it will be heavily toned-down.

>>94116284
The whims of market forces are at times as unknowable and inscrutable as that of the gods themselves. They didn't say RPGs were off the table either ways, just that Paradox wouldn't be developing them. They'd outsource it from the get go, which isn't weird. WotC doesn't own or direct Larian Games, they just make money off the license. Plus, they said nothing about dropping WoD videogames as a whole. They still regularly pump out various visual novels.

>>94116343
Just seems weird to me that a very profit-driven company would keep an IP solely to license it out it to devs who develop visual novels that make pocket change. Also seems weird to me that they would continue to support a TTRPG team that probably loses them hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, when the TTRPGs are no longer of any use (when they're no longer developing any major titles that they can use the TTRPGs as lore bibles for).

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>>94116332
i would like the first to be true, but i don't see it because they all have the same 3 praktices and clans mostly just add tags to certain "spells"

by the way i know they mentioned that other supernaturals can learn sorcery just not, what did they call it, quick casting? but have they mentioned if the same is true for other "Practices"?

>>94115908
He's shitposting by dragging that garbage into this thread in the first place
>Are you bitter the Curseborne thread turned into actual discussion of the game
Of NWod? lol
>and not just bitching like you wanted?
He's pretty clearly a cuckborne shill

>>94116429
Lineage books are pretty much guaranteed, so we probably get more choices later on, similar to how HtV added more Dread Powers.

>>94116263
Ask again in a week

>>94116332
Predictions for what, Curseborne?

>>94116484
either that or they add more on the higher tier books like they did with phanteons, my doubt is more along the lines of it being able to portray old vtm and vtr clans in a satisfying manner

>>94116525
*phanteons in scion 2e

>>94116332
>Make your own Clan
Nope. The Hungry have 7 Families that are your Clans here.
>in-universe organization
Nada. At least, not yet, and no real hints at one. It's mostly a game of mysteries, survival, and the like.
>Human mages
Don't know yet, hedge magics haven't been talked about. They'll likely be handled with Dread Powers though.
>No mention of a cosmic bureaucracy
It's not truly understood why they exist but there isn't a known underworld or anything.
>None of the creatures will have mechanics that compel players to compromise their morality
They've all got those. There isn't a morality track but characters are all doing awful things on account of being monsters. Those awful things are the primary source of magical ability here too. They power pretty much everything supernatural you'll do.

>>94116429
>Clans mostly just add tags to certain "spells"
Families all have 3 "Motifs" each that will alter how spells work. This isn't often adding new tags but adding new effects that key off of tags. It might make spells reflexive, cheaper, able to target more NPCs, or make it cost more but apply a Status. Stuff like that.

>other supernaturals can learn sorcery
Every Accursed has magic. Each Lineage knows their own set of 3 Practices. For Sorcerers its 3 per Family from a set of 7 the Lineage has. A Sorcerer has the option to acquire more of their Lineages Practices beyond what their Family grants innately though. Quick Castings is a template feature of the Sorcerers the same way Wild Form is for the Primals

>other "Practices"?
You can't learn the Practices of another Lineage but some spells from a Lineage can be learned in specific circumstances. The Hungry have a spell for turning invisible that's tagged "Lineage (Dead, Outcasts)" so that those Lineages can learn that specific spell too. Families all have a "Secret Spell" from another Lineage's Practices but not a spell they could ordinarily learn. So, no Dead but the Furies can learn Berserker's Fury.

>>94116525
There will be higher tier books. They've talked about plans for that already with a higher capped power stat and higher tiers of spells beyond the two (or three?) in the core book. Hungry Families aren't just Vampire Clans though so I'd get ready to be disappointed there. There is certainly overlap between those Families and Clans but it's not WoD and I don't really know there is much reason to play Curseborne if what you want is WoD. Unless they're like the only vampires you can stomach or something and you like the rest of the game. The Hungry manuscript is out and uploaded though so you can go read it yourself if you want to.

>>94116251
>they intend to hold onto the World of Darkness
Yes.
>and pump out sourcebooks
Unclear. They might lend the license to other companies. OPP is unlikely at this point.

>>94116179
I'd be glad if so, Paradox clearly isn't suitable for RPGs, so it would be better if they either sold the license or finally put it out of its misery.

>>94116689
oh i read the manuscript and i feel they are okay i am just a sucker for having as much options as i can have for players and npcs (old dnd 3.x brainrot i never fully left behind), hench my original comment as to how i would love to be able to make old school vampire stuff in the system

You saw nothing.
You heard nothing.
That thing you heard? It was nothing.
He's not missing, he's on a vacation.
You look tired. Maybe buy yourself a drink with this extra cash. Relax. Forget. It was a tiring day. You confused stuff.
PLASMA CANON PALM GUN BIIIIIIIIITCHEEEEEEEEEEEES

>>94116319
That's a shame because their Shadowrun games are good fun and Battletech managed to capture the spirit of the tabletop if not the details. I'd be interested to see what they could do with a WoD license.

>>94116284
>Why would they do that?
To hope for a future resurgence that will either allow them to publish more books and make more profit or sell the IP to some other company for more profit.
A similar case is most capeshit comics which are barely self-sustaining but act as idea farms for flick adaptations.

Since we're talking about the IP and games GOD I'M SO MAD THEY BOTCHED THE WtA GAME AHHHHH

>>94117410
Which one?

>>94117434
Earthbound
It was like it was made 15 years too late to be in fashion.

>>94117410
Agreed. Heart of Gaia could've been a good or interesting game.

>>94117451
What sort of non-VN game should Werewolf the Apocalypse have gotten?

Who is your chroniclestreamfu?

>>94117517
how about a darksiders like with slightly more rpg elements

>>94117517
Beat'em'up

>>94117451
Eh, it was a very 4/10 game. Not terrible but below average. It was also before W5. Red Talons were cool and Kinfolk played a somewhat big role.

>>94117517
Should have remade that cancelled WtA game from the 90s. From what I saw from the cutscenes, it was actually decent and also a decent intro to WtA. Except for the Shadow Lord slander, but what are you’re going todo with that nuance is to complex for the general audience.

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>>94117559

>>94117569
I decided to pick Hart Wardens.

What Path would be the most appropriate for an Akashic Hedge Magician? I was thinking either Fascination, because of the Mind sphere or Quintessence Manipulation, because of how important Ki is to fictional martial arts

>>94115749
did you guys actually mutually decide to include curseborne since i was gone or is this just one overzealous guy jumping the gun?

>>94118311
>or is this just one overzealous guy jumping the gun?
This right here.
As said a couple of times before, we would all talk about Curseborne here during the game's development and after corebook release, we would go to our own separate thread.
The "curseborne" thread was made by a troll and people there are discussing CofD rather than the game itself, engaging with bait thread.

>>94118311
It's a troll, I guarantee it. Likely the same one that did the obvious troll Curseborne thread, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's gWoD anon trying to find a new thing to edition war about.

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What would be a good weakness for a giant revenant family?

>>94118523
They are all women and have a fetish for cute small boys.

>>94118588
Ah the ventru weakness.

>>94118417
I'm feeling conspiratorial. Do you reckon we actually get multiple trolls, or is it really just one very dedicated guy?

For example, remember the guy who would insist social disciplines were useless, and that there is no way to beat a Vampire character that maxes out combat? You think he was the same guy or someone different? And if it is just one guy, why does he care this much about a half-dead urban fantasy series?

>>94118523
Inability to do fine motorics - anything they do or create will be simple and crude, making them dependent on trade, raiding, or smallfolk (normalfolk) slaves for even most basic things like clothes.

>>94118754
That sounds like a pretty neat limitation.

>>94118680
There are sixteen significant contributors to this general, and eight of them can be considered trolls.
>Whiteroom. Less active these days, but he is an avid fan of Mage the Awakening, especially the second edition and puts it on a pedestal because of its high power level.
>Hedgefag. You all know him. Exclusively interested in Changeling the Lost, though he reinterprets it as a more comfy slice-of-life urban fantasy setting full of femboys.
>Loretist. He knows everything that there is to know about World of Darkness lore and he will take issue with anyone who dares to deviate from the metaplot in any shape or form.
>Fantasist. He fantasises about playing a lesbian dominatrix vampire who seduces and fucks lots of women but he doesn't actually like the setting or play the game.
>Idpol. He starts ranting and raving whenever anything connected to ideology is brought up. You can't talk about Anarchs, Brujah, Black Furies or Fifth Edition without him expressing disgust.
>Falseflag. He takes contentious talking points and exaggerates them to make the talking point seem ridiculous and makes it difficult to talk about controversial topics in good faith.
>Pot Stirrer. Whenever there's an opportunity for an edition war, this guy will push it and try to stir up conflict between WoD, CofD, Fifth Edition and now Curseborne.
>Freelancer. There's one guy who is extremely invested in CofD. He promotes it with such intensity and such encyclopaedic knowledge of it that it seems like he likely had a hand in writing it.

>>94118820
>>Fantasist. He fantasises about playing a lesbian dominatrix vampire who seduces and fucks lots of women but he doesn't actually like the setting or play the game.
Thank god he fucked off.

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>>94118820
>tfw i'm NOT one of the sixteen vips

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What will she do when Paradox shutters World of Darkness, fires her and gets her deported back to the wastes of Poland?

>>94119006
To be fair, he hasn't identified the eight non-troll regulars.

>>94119046
I leave that responsibility up to you.

>>94118820
>sixteen significant contributors to this general
>eight of them can be considered trolls.
you're making it sound like Seelie and Unseelie courts

>>94119089
Cool.
I mean, with more trolls we could have Camarilla vs Sabbat.

>>94119040
Probably gets hired by CDPR.

>>94119040
Onlyfans or chaturbate.

When the fuck is the White Wolf wiki going to update the CtD Arts to the C20? They’re still showing the rules from 2e and don’t have any of the new ones.

>>94119360
Updates will come with the new C5.

>>94117451
Cyanide really saddens me. There's clearly heart in their games (those that aren't potboilers I mean), but also I think both a combination of lack of means and lack of design chops, that makes them feel lackluster in the end. Very definitiion of "I want to like it, but...".

>>94116319
>means Harebrained Schemes is not gonna do anything interesting ever again but not much else
My understanding is that HBS managed to get their freedom back after The Lamplighter's League under-performed (if I understood well, it cost them their back-catalogue, which Paradox kept the right to. But don't take my word for it). Hence why they're working on that new RPG, GRAFT.

>TQ
Depends on chronicle, but unless designed from the get go to accomodate it, not much, unless players really love to roleplay downtime. In which case slice-of-life sandbox (MY HAVEN NEEDS A NEW CARPET!) can take quite some space in-between, more plot-driven sessions.
I seem to be in the minority, but I like the flashback mechanic introduced by V5, in that it allows to play downtime episodes and make them retroactively matter with what's currently happening. Needs a second iteration. But I like that. Easy to pilfer too.

>>.94119089
Welln due, where do you think trolls come from? Trying to fight banality in misguided ways.

>>94118820
As one of the few people I've seen called out for being that last guy I can tell you my secret. I just look in the book before I say something, it's very easy to be correct when you're not confident you already are. You didn't hear it from me though, keep it on the down low.

>>94119040
Probably come back to full-time youtube + streaming.

>>94119360
It's a wiki, so as soon as someone can and want to do it. You can do it yourself for that matter.

>>94118523
Chronic pain from being fuckhuge and occasional episodes of lethargy

>>94120106
Those make sense from an realistic perspective but I don't see how to make that weakness interesting to deal with fluff wise or mechanically.

>>94116251
>pump out sourcebooks until you die.
Probably other things too, like the VNs and card games as well. Kindred: The Embraced revival when?

>>94117410
On the other hand we got a decently good Wraith game with W:TO:Afterlife

>>94120148
>Kindred: The Embraced revival when?
They announced a WoD tv/cinematic universe in like 2021 via a Variety article. Nothing happened so far, so I guess it died before even happened.

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>>94120519
Speaking of, I had a discussion with a friend today about the plot of a hypothetical VtM show.
>Animated to distance itself from normie perceptions of live action vampire stuff being sappy melodrama + easier to convey the supernatural without it looking cheap
>First episode is just a day in the life of a normal middling dude, bordering on a loser in a typical modern city. Really drive home the aesthetic of everything, show the audience some daylight because they'll be missing it from here on out, and flesh out a bit who our central character is. Then in the last five minutes, he is brutally shovelheaded. The last shot of the episode is him breaking the surface of his shallow grave.
>Protagonist is a Lasombra so the animation team has some fun powers to depict.
>Gets sent in as part of a shovelhead wave attack on a mid-level Camarilla shmuck, a Tremere. Mostly through luck, he is the only survivor and the one who technically destroyed the target. Gets jumped up to True Sabbat pretty quick for it.
>The rest of the series shows him becoming worse and worse under the tutelage of a Tremere Antitribu Ductus/Priest, a true believer in the Sabbat and its revolution.
>Following episodes focus on exploring the depravity and insanity of the Sabbat and occasionally touching on other things in the night, such as a few episodes about dealing with Hunters and an episode where a Dog-Tagging game goes horribly wrong.
>By the end he's basically unrecognizable from his episode 1 self, humanity either horribly low or fully replace with a path.
>Turns on the Tremere Antitribu, challenging him to Monomacy for the pack in a climactic battle. Diablerizes his one-time mentor.
>Ends with him and the remainder of the pack going nomad, him having fully accepted The Beast, not even really believing in the Sabbat's holy mission.

What would be the outline to your hypothetical WoD show or movie?

>>94120726
>What would be the outline to your hypothetical WoD show or movie?

>Ventru Vs the IRS

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>>94120726
>What would be the outline to your hypothetical WoD show or movie?
Already exists.

>>94121264
What?

>>94121305
Forever Knight, a Canadian show about a vampire cop from the early nineties.

>>94121328
I think I heard that name before.

>>94120726
This is just Edgerunners, with David getting Embraced instead of falling into Cyberpsychosis.Still a good outline, though.
I had the idea of it being an animated anthology series, each episode its own vignette. First season starts off as VtM, but gradually introduces the other supernaturals, and eventually has episodes based on them. Like say in one episode a Sabbat pack was ambushed and the lone survior drains this random passerby, another episode is about that guy being Reaped into Stygia and learning he’s a Wraith now.

>>94121379
I think that format works well since the World of Darkness is so expansive and has so many moving parts that just brush up against one another vaguely.
>A heist by a coterie of newly embraced vampires on some office building to collect information that an Elder is holding a boon over them for, partway through there's a loud BOOM and the building shakes and the lights go out, they manage to get out fast and escape into the sewer.
>A later episode is a Werewolf pack assaulting that same complex because it's a Pentex front and the explosion was a First team shooting an RPG at one of them.
Honestly if 40k can get away with the terrible anthology episodes they have been putting out this could do well. It doesn't need to be Love, Death, Robots quality it can absolutely be a little more low budget and still be a great addition to the franchise.

>>94121379
I had Edgerunners on the mind when I came up with it, we were talking about how crazy it was so many people gave 2077 a second chance because of the anime but I don't think it's exactly the same. Edgerunners is the story of a good kid throwing his life away because he got convinced he was special and lived too much for other people's dreams. The idea here is more an average if not slightly loser guy becoming worse, at first because he has no other choice but at a certain point just embraces the monster, and he actually wins because he throws away his humanity, rather than that being his undoing.

I'm not the biggest fan of the entire world of darkness, but anthologies are always fun and tying them together is a neat approach to the formula.

>>94119360
When they find people who actually care about CtD.

>>94118680
>why does he care this much about a half-dead urban fantasy series?
autism is a pathway to many abilities some would consider... unnatural.

>>94118820
so who are the 8 non-trolls?

>>94120726
THE WIRE BUT WITH VAMPIRES N SHIEEEEEE

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>>94115749
Not sure how I feel about Curseborne emphasizing hope in the kickstarter, part of what made World and Chronicles so effective was their almost unrelenting bleakness so I worry this won't have the same bite, it's a good message but this doesn't exactly scream "WoD spiritual successor" to me

>>94121691
I can dig it. Sabbat, Camarilla, or *narchs?

>>94121801
>part of what made World and Chronicles so effective was their almost unrelenting bleakness
Eh, not all of them Both Mages have been fairly hopeful, particularly Ascension, as were Demon: The Fallen and Hunter: The Reckoning. So it might not be a total crapshoot.

>>94121264
LaCroix was the only one that truly loved Nick at Knight, and nurse gf got fat

>>94121818
I can agree with Mage and Demon, but the schizo simulator aspects of Hunter make any hope seem pretty deluded. Hunters are consistently the least reliable narrators of all splats.

>>94121801
Maybe I'm just a pessimist, or a zoomer, but I never saw the WoD games as that bleak. It stuck me as pretty much the same but with cool spooky monsters, so if anything that actually makes it a bit less bleak than the real world.

>>94121801
>part of what made World and Chronicles so effective was their almost unrelenting bleakness so I worry this won't have the same bite

it probably won't have the same bite because it's 2024, but are you sure about the unrelenting bleakness? most lines in wod admitted to being "unfair" but most time of judgment scenarios ended with the character having saved the world and even on a lower scale you can topple the prince you can find golconda or just stay on high humanity so i feel like you kinda overstate the supposed bleakness of wod

>>94122303
a lot of people forget that while the world is bleak and everyone is a monster doesn't mean you also have to be like that. embrace the punk part and rebel against the tyrannical Prince or the corrupt baron! your character IS special and you CAN change things if you really put your back into it

>>94121801
Making Trinity and Aberrant too positive ruined the game, at least you can use the new rules with the old setting pretty easily.

>>94121801
>part of what made World and Chronicles so effective was their almost unrelenting bleakness
"Hope" is a theme in Werewolf. No matter how much thing were fucked up, you could still save us all.
"Hope" is a theme in Wraith and they even put a sidebar remembering players and ST that there's light in the underworld, even if it's just sporadic rays of light going through the dark sky.
"Hope" is a theme in Vampire as in search for Golconda.
"Hope" is a theme in Changeling. Even if the world is being eating up by Banality, your survival and awakening of new changelings means the world can still survive through these bad times.
And so on with all other lines.
World of Darkness always showed hope for characters and players, even if it's difficult for some to see because it's easier to not change. Always has been like that.

>>94115749
What are some /tg/ approved chronicles i could watch that i can watch?

>>94122966
There are two good ways to understand hope in WoD.
>Pandora's box. Hope is the final curse of the box, it keeps us going and suffering through all the ills of the world.
>Behavioral despair. A rat which is saved from drowning once will stay swimming twice as long as one which hasn't been saved. They learn hope and can push harder through difficulty.
Without hope, it's hard to have a motivation for your characters beyond absolute selfish desires. With hope, even mythological hope like Golconda or Transcendence you have ways for characters to have setbacks and suffer but push through because the possibility they are chasing outweighs the temporary pain.

V20 you spend Blood Points to boost attributes at the start of the turn. Does that mean before declaration like celerity? The wording is the same but to me it doesnt make much sense

>>94122966
>>94122303
But they never emphasized it, it was always secondary to whatever primary theme each gameline had, but they're emphasizing it here

>>94123289
effects taking place "at the same time" can be ordered as acting player wants, both blood buff and celerity are supernatural effects of vampiric blood

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>>94115749
Old wod server we run all the major splats and I’m currently running a vtm chronicle second edition. We don’t run 5th.
We also run something called house games for anyone interested to play that’s campy second edition cross splat non commit one shots with repeating characters.
https://discord.gg/Um2WsrvB

>>94115749
>https://www.gamesindustry.biz/paradox-on-bloodlines-2-we-had-a-game-we-could-do-but-maybe-not-with-the-team-we-had
lol lmao even

>>94124643
>I'm a huge fan of world of darkness myself

I gurantee you this swede suit doesn't know who Doktor Totentanz is.

>>94124680
There's people with whom I've been playing in and off for more than two decades that wouldn't either. Might recognize /the/ picture, because it's infamous, but not put a name to it.
To some, the only thing that matters is what happens at the table.

>>94120726
Personally I'd prefer character driven to plot driven. The city's main character. So relatively big cast, follow from one seemingly unrelated thread to another till, from the mundane to the exceptional, it slowly all ties up together and you can see the big picture - a concentric hell of interwoven machinations, some petty, some suprahuman, all going nowhere that one can see. The Jyhad in all it's squalor.
There's no one I would trust with that script right now, though.

Do the Outcasts in CB fill the Faerie niche as well or are they just angels and demons?

>>94124832
Okay, but you don't honestly believe that suit has ever actually played the tabletop, do you? Claiming to be a big fan of the series is a classic corpo trick.

>>94125195
At least he didn't claim to play with 30 people regularly, all of them using generative AI.

>>94124925
mostly angels and demons, but the The Chimerae are a bit of the "other" outsiders

fae in general are meant to be a big deal and one of the bigger mysteries of the line that are kept for the higher end books

not as playable characters but they seem to be like the antedeluvians of the game, we already have 1 familiy that claims to be spawned by a fae and one family that claims that they work hard to keep the founder asleep

>>94125263
Well, True Fae were pretty powerful and mysterious in both WoDs, too.

>>94125343
>Well, True Fae were pretty powerful and mysterious in both WoDs, too.
In the first edition, perhaps, and only until Equinox Road which deleted most of the mystery and replaced it with very solid and grounded mechanics to explain how the True Fae work, how they come into being, how they can be killed and so on. After Equinox Road, they were classified, documented, categorised and devoid of mystique. The second edition also turns them from an existential threat to most freeholds to powerful but ultimately surmountable adversaries that serve as the antagonists of a single session, rather than an entire chronicle.

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>>94124925
The Fae are a whole thing in Curseborne. A fairly central mystery in the core book and something they've got plans for. Outcasts aren't strictly angels and demons, they're outsiders in general which gives them pretty much infinite range. Each of the Families is coded to align with some sort of mythological spirit or somesuch but they don't all descend from a singular archon. Battleground Angels might styles themselves after, y'know, angels but not everyone of them has something like an angel in their family tree. Others are more like genies, or devils, or dryads but you don't have to have something like that to be in a Family that's in that sort of theme. But we don't really know if Fae are of the Outside or if they're some sort of Earthly equivalent so it's hard to say if Fae can be an ancestor for an Outcast.

However the Outcasts do fill the Changeling niche in a few ways. Firstly, they've got that whole "otherworldly thing in a mortal guise" angle going for them. They can also slip off that mask for social bonuses and their Damnation is a forced reveal of their true form with appropriate consequences. The cosmology of Curseborne is a lot of alternate realms and strange spaces between them, which isn't dissimilar to Changeling and part of an Outcasts deal is being able to make portals to some of the more dangerous places. Their Practices don't strongly evoke those sorts of characters but there are still things in common. Overall they're pretty different but they're not a million miles off.

>>94125397
>that serve as the antagonists of a single session, rather than an entire chronicle.
Only if the characters and players know what they are doing very well.

>>94125214
Who?

Did someone do that here?

Gehenna War supplement got me thinking about where I would find interesting to run a Shadowrun-heavy heist-like scenario for Vampire. Something big and brash and noisy (whose aftermath is going to be the main meat for me).
Dubai is a lazy answer these days, but it does open some funny ground with all the crazy architecture.
But I've been thinking, importing something war-like to the EU could play very well - the certitude of peace in the heart of the hegemon shattering and the extreme answer it could provoke, both kindred ang human wise, opens great stakes.

>>94125195
I honestly don't care about what the man has to say on that front. In corporate talk it's just background noise, irrelevant to the problem at hand - whether we will get a good game. The man is not a creative.
I just wanted to point how flawed the metric used was for evaluating "true" fandom. Whatever that is.

>>94125520
I am routinely impressed and a little confused by your ability to find inspiration in the derivative trash known as V5 supplement books.

>>94125473
By this point, the only people who regularly play Changeling the Lost 2e are people who probably know the game very well.

>>94125585
True but on the other hand the people running it are about as experient with the system and should be able to change shit when the game demands it.

>>94125551
Nta but it's not that hard to build a decent game out the prompts most of them give.

>>94125551
I'll take that as a compliment. Honestly, it's just perma-DM mode striking, you end up doing it in spite of yourself, and at some point you'll pilfer from *anything* - up to toddler books (inb4 "Where is my cow?").
Sometimes, it's even a good idea.
But seriously, quite often, the most useful story seeds -those that will net you the best games - start inspired by the most derivative, unasuming ideas. The iterative process is weird like that.

Reading the other interview on Paradox itself, make it sounds like a small company that grew too big too fast with management in over their heads in how chnage of scales the skillsets needed for management and company culture.
I wonder how much of that is backed up by facts.

>>94125343
eh ctd true fae where always pretty underwhelming to me

mostly because fae arts sucked before c20 and "possibly" Ailil the founder of his house and one of the first or second generation born from the mist themselves was stated like a changeling so no stats above 5 meaning your run of the mill vampire elder or mid level werewolf had a good chance of running him over : /

>>94125678
It was intended as a compliment, the insult is at the V5 books.

My confusion lies mostly in why one would get their inspiration from there in the first place. I get perma-DM brain striking, I have random plot or game ideas all the time. But my incidental inspiration usually comes from other things, like a show I've watched or a book I've read, or even just seemingly out of the blue when I'm showering or on a walk. When I'm reading an RPG book I often find less inspiration there (even in good books) than I do just out and about in my daily life. Maybe I focus too much on what's wrong.

About to run a V5 game in a couple weeks, but keep getting the nagging feeling that VtR may be better suited for the kind of game I want to run. Anyone with experience with V5 and/or VtR, what’s your take on what’s better for a “low level” personal story? Still want some politicking and all that fun of course, but want the players & characters as more of the focus.

>>94125506
Chris Cocks, the CEO of Hasbro, did.

>>94125863
You're on /tg/, everyone is going to tell you to avoid V5 like the plague. I'd only recommend V5 if:
>Your group is familiar with V5 and not familiar with VtR.
>Your group is invested in the VtM setting and you don't want to bother with the VtM conversion rules.

>>94125863
VtR has better politicking because you have five Covenants with varying alliances instead of two or three monolithic sects at war,
Damnation City is an awesome book about buidling your setting (it's pretty useful for other games, too, but it directly references VtR.).
VtR works great for different scales, including low level.

>>94125863
It's VtR. The personal focus of V5 is largely inherited from VtR which I think not only does it better but it's also got more interesting power and a core resolution system that doesn't try to wrench your player agency from you. I'd give both V5 and VtR 2e a read though and decide which is better but just from what you're asking, and what I like, I'd go with VtR.

What's with that irrational hate of Paradox and V5?

>>94126043
It's not irrational. Paradox makes business decisions people don't agree with. V5 is a thing people don't like.

>>94126043
>Old-is-good new-is-bad contrarianism.
>Culture war identity politics, as V5 is staunchly progressive.
>Mechanical decisions and narrative decisions that people dislike.
Based on someone's rhetoric, you can usually tell what the primary reason for hating V5 is. Some people have legitimate reasons, some people latch on to the identity politics, other people just put old WoD on a pedestal because it's the OG.

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>>94126043
>irrational

>>94126067
They aren't forcing you to play their edition, you'll always have the Chronicles of Darkness or whatever it's called these days.
>>94126094
I always get the impression that nWoD players hate Paradox even more than oWoD ones.

>>94126110
Yeah, I know. That's why I'm not playing it. Doesn't mean I have to think they're good though.

>>94126110
Oh, that's a fourth reason.
>Paradox prevents the publishing of additional Chronicles of Darkness content.
That's because Paradox owns the rights to Chronicles of Darkness but views Chronicles of Darkness as a competitor, so it doesn't allow Onyx Path Publishing to produce any other Onyx Path Publishing books.
This is why Curseborne is being made, as a new franchise that occupies the same niche as World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness.
As this general is one of the three places of the internet where people actually give a shit about Chronicles of Darkness, this is a big issue here and on the Onyx Path Publishing forums and Discord server, but it's not really relevant anywhere else.

>>94126043
My hatred is perfectly rational. I'm #3 on >>94126094 chart. And "you don't have to play it" doesn't mean you can't dislike something, especially when that something is a direct competitor or outright stifling the thing you do like.

I really hate the idea that you can't criticize something you dislike as long as you have the option to not engage with it. By that thinking, you'll never get any harsh criticism of anything, because all the people who vehemently dislike it to the point of not engaging won't be allowed to say anything about it.

>>94126043
Ok, Outstar. I see what you're doing.

>>94126144
I remember when CofD diehards in these threads insisted that CofD was actually super popular and being placed in every LGS and that VtR was way more popular than any version of VtM because of an arbitrary chart on DriveThruRPG that wasn't actually based on sales. Good times.

>>94126043
The usual. Coming into a franchise with an established fanbase. Antagonizing said fanbase by changing what they liked and saying that it was wrong and only people that were bad used to like this and they don't want them anymore in their community.

Sad to think Justice was the beta test for the gameplay of Bloodlines 2

>>94127374
>Bloodlines 2
I don't think anyone's expecting more than a mediocre game by now.

>>94127430
Yeah, it's not looking good at all. Everything is extremely basic, very little room for roleplay so far. Literally just upscaled Justice, and that's a VR game not trying to push any envelopes.

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>>94127508
I hope I can at least sex some companions.

>>94127530
I hope we can Dominate and mindbreak Ginger Tittee as a Ventrue and make her give up all her principles for us

>>94127374
Presuming that you are talking about the original version, I hope it gets leaked somehow.

>>94127530
How does someone let it get that bad? I feel ill after eating 2 plated of food, I can't imagine how these people can eat enough to gain that physique and maintain it

>>94128063
Depression, maybe.

>>94128063
Nosferatu with rugged bad looks merit.

>>94128063
Habit, depression, lack of exercise, high-fructose corn syrup and banes, lots and lots of banes. AND WE CAN SHOVE EVEN MORE BANES IN THERE.

>>94128146
Yeah, but does he get powers?

>>94128165
Yes.
Sexual powers, can't you tell?

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>>94128174

>>94126255
Still butthurt?

>>94126094
>V5 is staunchly progressive
All of the 5th edition stuff is staunchly liberal, they're cool with the negroes when it's just a color pallet but don't want to deal with any themes that might make the white middle class audience "uncomfortable".

>>94128174
>savage genitalia anon

Bone Gnawers suck! Bone Gnawers suck! They roll around in garbage bins!
This tribe more than the others annoys me, not because of what they are, but because how fans and writers treat them. Every tribe should have some facet of their ideology that is reprehensible. The Bone Gnawers did have this originally, they were honorless cads that only cared if they saw another day and damn everyone else. But with the general white washing the Garou get as the editions progress it's retconned that no, they truly are fighting the good fight at every level and they're honorable and they are nice to their kinfolk!

>>94128472
They dgaf about eating humans (actually based)

I say again: living in Ghost Enoch would be comfy

>>94128525
>t. nagaraja

>>94128548
>t. Has an Antedeluvian

it's halloween season, possibly the last one
settle it once and for all, so that when the internet turns inside out and the world turns upside down, we can say that we did
sexpires or monsterpires?

>>94128649
lame question
sexmonster vampires or monstersex vampires?

>>94128666
sexmonster for sure

Can't believe I share a masquerade with this kind of filth

>>94128741
... and the brujah aren't even here

>>94128786
Another virtue of the Tal'Mahe'Ra: no Brujah or Tremere

>>94128828
>no tremere
Grim and sad.

>>94128843
>When your generation begins with a one
smdh

>>94128877
Anything under 7 is basically a thin blood.

>>94128991
>over 7
Fixed for you, bro.
Also, Dark ages rules > V20

Despite being a fan of the setting across multiple editions and decades and owning an entire shelf of books, I have never actually played a game.

I totally understand how the game WANTS you to play, but what are your experiences? What's an average game like? How are the players? Deal with a lot of edgelords? Or is mostly theater kids doing heavy RP?

Any advice helps

I really would like to play

>>94128414
Still amused.

>>94128828
>True Brujah enters the room

>>94129108
Well I play pretty much exclusively with friends I have had before I got into WoD, and I like to play pretty loose with the official material so this may not be very indicative of the general experience but
>Average game is a mix of serious character work and goal-oriented play with the occasional splash of levity to keep it fun and not so bleak there's no reason to be invested in the game.
>Dark, moody, very gothic, but not overly depressing or outright misanthropic. We don't really deal with the punk angle that much.
>Not overly reliant on a single kind of problem to get in the PCs way. Intrigue, investigation, combat, and other kinds of problems are rotated fairly frequently to keep one kind of character from dominating.
>That being said, creative solutions are usually supported and encouraged. If someone successfully talks their way out of what was supposed to be a fight, the hand of god won't stop them.
>Things are never terribly linear but the levels of plot and sandbox can vary pretty significantly from game to game as well as length.
>Player problems are usually the result of someone getting too attached to their character, doing something foolish IC and then getting annoyed when it blows up in their face despite several chances to pull out or fix the problem, and trying to break things (mostly combat) with cheesy builds. That being said, these are fairly infrequent and non-disruptive.

>>94128063
Depression. I'm not anywhere close to him but I get it, eating food is literally one of the only reliable ways of getting some amount of dopamine/serotonin in my day

>>94121818
I wouldn't call reckoning hopeful when most hunters either die in the hunt or literally go mad

>>94126255
Karmic justice. They really gloated when people just wanted good books instead of the nuWoD nonsense, than started whining once their shit got cancelled.
The Kickstarter campaigns pretty much show there's a greater demand for the real WoD games instead of trash like Beast the Primordial or Deviant the Renegades.

>>94127530
Vampires don't get sex horny just sad vampire romance horny

>>94126255
nWoD was literally 1/3rd of the books in my LGS idk what you're smoking if you think that wasn't the case. It had more shelfspace here than 4e

>>94130030
How exactly do poor shop owners stuck on books no one wants to buy proof a systems success?
If nuWoD went so well, why was White Wolf bought by CCP?

>>94130394
Are you the guy who keeps convincing those poor innocent morons over on /v/ that nWoD and V5 are the same thing due to the "NuWoD" moniker? If so stop that.

>>94130466
It was called nuWoD 20 years ago. You know, back wen Nu Metal was a thing.

just read the outsider manuscript and i feel like this is one splat that really gonne be made or break based on the outside itself and how other splats can or can not interact with it

would be awful if they took special care to make it so that vampries can be around during day (even if they have to be careful) only to have 1 splat play a different game from the rest of the group because they are the only ones interested and capable of traveling to other dimensions like the battleground

>>94130394
>stuck on books no one wants to buy
Pretty sure the reason people were buying books to sell several years into the game is because all the books were selling (which is wild when you think about how bad many of the early books were lol), faglord

>>94115749
Please give me some advice anons. One of my players, a Brujah, is trying to investigate Golconda and see if there is any truth to it. He's found scattered references to it in vampire books but has been told the only more detailed accounts are in the forbidden section of a secret kindred library. He made a deal with the Lasombra who guards it that in exchange for him giving her a boon she will ask her superiors and give him permission to enter the forbidden section.
The thing is though that I really struggle with the Boon aspect of vampire society. What could she ask of him?

>>94131265
Something that will get the coterie in danger, like bringing an elder in torpor for "questioning" and "cross refferencing his memories with written accounts".
And by that i mean diablerie.

>>94131265
Depends on the kind of boon
Basically, anything as significant as getting permission for an outsider to enter the forbidden section. Think of boons like a specialised contact sort of deal. If they want help for something which they don't want to die for, just call on a boon.

No blood bonds though.

>>94131291
My problem is my mind always goes blank when it comes time for Boon stuff. I'm able to get and impliment most of the vampire social and civil stuff but for whatever reason Boons are my downfall. Can never think of what other vampires would ask of others if they got one. Everyones got that one area they are weak in as a storyteller, mines Boons. Is there any material I can consume to get better at it?

>>94131265
>One of my players, a Brujah
Stopped reading there. Don't play with retards.

>>94131321
He's shockingly chill. Is played like a passionate detective seeking the truth and trying to uphold justice in an unjust world. Role plays the tard rage but in a way that dosent de-rail sessions.

>>94131318
What would an ancilla ask of a neonate? Scouting enemy lines (Garou, other vampires), research into some esoteric subject, maybe for some reason the neonate had a property in life that the ancilla wants. Either way, keeping boons around for a rainy day is a good idea.

>>94131329
So he's playing a Brujah like a Salubri. Don't play with retards.

>>94131360
I am playing basically a Brujah Gym Teacher and rhe constant freak outs are a bit annoying. I like that he tries to be mellow because he knows he can kick peoples asses, to avoif frenzy repercussions. Got allready staked due to that.

>>94131265
Here is some text reference I use with my players for Boons and some examples:
>Trivial Boon - Lesser tasks including, but not limited to: one-time small favors, unsolicited information, watching over someone for an evening as long as there is no risk involved, aiding (not teaching) someone with a common Discipline, supporting a minor political move, helping design a plan and other such trivial tasks.
>Minor Boon - Small tasks that can last for more than one evening and might require a minor inconvenience including, but not limited to: providing needed information of some value, instruction in an unusual Ability, usage of Influences or Resources to aid another, some type of political support, acting as a bodyguard for multiple nights, facilitating passage through a hostile territory, disposing of a minor threat, helping carry out a plan, important advice and other such minor tasks.
>Major Boon - Tasks that require great expenditure of time or resources including, but not limited to: instruction in a common Discipline, purchasing a location to serve as someone’s Haven, exchange of controversial or very valuable information, major political maneuvering, helping someone to get out of trouble with the Prince and other such major tasks.
>Blood Boon - Tasks that may required the debtor to shed blood to complete such as but not limited to: saving the life of a Kindred’s immediate kin, sharing dangerous or secret information that could cause blood to be spilled, instruction in a clan-specific or rare discipline and other such dangerous tasks.
>Life Boon - Tasks that involves saving another’s life at the risk of one’s own.

They way you are putting, this categorizes as "exchange of controversial or very valuable information", which qualifies as Major Boon.

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For those who are interested in Curseborne.

>>94131265
>>94132000
When are you playing? Based on this lisr, an interesting thing to do might be

"Okay Buddy. I'm gonna need you and your coterie to guard the Library against (Threat you want to introduce)."

or

"I'm going to need you to act as my retainers/ deliver this book to (NPC you want to introduce)"

What I would probably do though, is leave it hanging over the players head. Every time the librarian mentions they need something, every time someone says something bad about them, every time she comes up in conversation, the player will be anxious that he might be called in to clean up the mess.

>>94132271
All three of us!

>>94131029
The wild thing is that people still pretend to like the games despite them failing and killing White Wolf.

>>94132271
Thanks.

New Coke of Darkness General

>>94131265
>The thing is though that I really struggle with the Boon aspect of vampire society. What could she ask of him?
Honestly I hate that aspect of vampire lore because of how dogshit the quantifications are in universe. Out of universe just look up how much that knowledge is worth in freebie points and be done with it.

>>94118754
Would a +4 difficulty to Crafts and similar rolls be excessive? Or should I raise by 3 and just complement it with a situational weakness like "you consume 3 times what a normal person does in terms of food, water and air"

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>>94120726

I think your scenario is really cool and great that we could finally see the Sabbat side of things, but I think most normies couldn't stomach a Sabbat MC. Too gorey and certainly not a good guy or a 'misunderstood' bad guy.

I'd definitely watch it though.

>>94128828
they have tremere (antitribue) because they could resist being hypocrites and recruited both them and the giovanni for their secrets despite that going 100% against everything their sect stands for then they went and opened recruitment to nearly everyone because well they are so small they kinda desperately need members, not that they would admit that.. just risk a civil war because of it
>Their conclusion was unwelcome, but simple: abolish the policies that restricted recruitment to a handful of select Clans and Bloodlines, and actively recruit all but the Tzimisce and the Followers of Set.
pg 29
>Surprisingly, the voice of reason came from the Harbingers of Skulls, who for reasons of their own almost unanimously stated that they didn’t give a rat’s ass about the Giovanni anymore, and neither should the rest of the Tal’Mahe’Ra. With strong vertebrae removed from the backbone of their argument, the loudest Kindred backed down fromoutright rebellion. It took several more years before recruitment officially opened, and the first non-traditional Clan member, a Tremere antitribu, was inducted into the Sect.
v20's black hand book pg 30
>There stands one hard addendum to this new policy, however. Followers of Set are disallowed membership. Brujah, Giovanni, Lasombra, and Tremere characters may be considered for recruitment, but are likely to face hostility from Tal’Mahe’Ra elders as their Clans historically diablerized or murdered Antediluvians. Recruits from these Clans must work twice as hard to earn the elders’ trust.
pg 49

so no you are not free of either blood witch usurpers nor loud idiots in the true black hand only from fleshshapers and snake fetishists and even then only open snake fetishists given that both lazarus cappadocians and tlacique are allowed

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For those few anons who always wanted to play Werewolf without mysticism and wanted pop culture werewolves.
There you have it.

>>94132690
I don't see anyone pretending to like CofD though, it's all nwod fans

>>94132911
It wasn't the Cofd that killed White Wolf, it was the new World Of darkness.

>>94132931
It was CCP that killed it.

>>94132946
If White Wolf hadn't suffered from bad nWoD sales, CCP wouldn't have been able to buy them.

>>94132403
The game takes place in 1998 during November in Colorado. And were using VTM Revised. And we operate on a ''If something from the metaplot is not brought up in game then assume we arent doing it'' to avoid how much of a clusterfuck things were in the late 90s in setting.

>>94132690
>you should only like things that sell well
Peak slop consumer mindset

>>94133170
You have to understand, it hurts his feelings when people actually talk about the content of games or what they get out of them because all he has to cling to is his kickstarter

>>94131005
Doesn't really seem like Outsiders can do much that's special to me. Battlegrounds are accessible to anyone and Outsiders can take other people with them.

>>94133170
The problem is that the bad start the nWoD had with VtR and WtF hurt the game.
Especially in the case of VtR, people looked at the game and saw it as a cheap knockoff of VtM with all the Clans and Bloodlines.
VtR and WtF also had a very diminished power level compared to the oWoD lines. Awakening mages were at least as powerful as Ascension ones, but people really blew up the Atlantis stuff. Promethean was ... special.
Lost and Vigil really took off, but at that point the nWoD had failed to win over fans of the oWoD. Bloodlines made folks interested in the game who were disappointed that there was no longer a VtM.

>>94133267
Yeah, but that's not the same as them being bad games. VtR and WtF had weak core books but loads of great stuff later on and 2e kicks ass. This would be true regardless of whether they sold better or worse.

>>94131005
Sent to the NV?

I intend to back eventually, but I am sailing the seas for the updates at the moment.

>>94133306
NTA but I think I did that already. I know I did the other 3 for sure. If it's not there I'll get around to it in a bit. You can go and back the Kickstarter and get it right now though, you won't be charged until it ends and can cancel anytime and never be charged.

>>94133306
i'll do it later, i am not at home right now

do you need/want just the outsiders or all the 4 manuscripts they shared so far?

>>94133289
They made terrible first impressions which hurt the momentum. Imagine how the nWoD would have taken off if they had started with VtR2 and WtF2? If you make a new line like that, you want to start with a banger.

>>94133329
Yeah, but they're still good.

>>94133329
As someone that enjoyed 1st ed Requiem, a big part of what hurt them was not knowing how much to divorce themselves from Masquerade.

Carrying across so many clans hurt the separation. Whilst I think the bones for something good was there (as seen in 2nd ed.) they were far too timid in creating something new.

>>94133378
Yeah, they were far more daring with Changeling and Hunter (also Demon) and it really paid off.

>>94132959
CCP was able to buy them because they made an offer that couldn't be refused.

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I don't think anyone is claiming that CofD is bad, especially compared to the other urban horror franchises, just that it isn't popular at all and that this general is one of the only places on the internet that regularly talks about it that isn't an official website or Discord server.

VtR 2e may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't change the fact that even compared to the not particularly popular Vampire the Masquerade that is only propped up by Bloodlines nostalgia these days, it's a blip on the radar.

>>94133550
>vampire the rapist

>>94133550
So what exactly was meant by?
>The wild thing is that people still pretend to like the games despite them failing and killing White Wolf

>>94133567
Can't recognise a troll when you see one?

>>94133574
But that's what's being talked about.

>>94133587
Before that, the subject was CofD's lack of popularity. That's just a bit of bait that you fell for.

>>94133600
So? The thing you didn't think happened, that was context for the thing you were confused about, did happen and explains why the other things were said. That's all.

>>94133170
It's facts, your feelings don't matter

>>94133550
>may be the best thing since sliced bread
Has been a while since I heard this sentence. Wow.

>>94134069
Sorry, I'll try not to use such dated idioms.
>VtR 2e is litty gyatt and got top rizz.
Is that better?

>>94134116
Nah. I wasn't complaining. Quite the opposite: I like that expression and made me laugh when I was a kid.

Running a 4 hour Orpheus oneshot for some friends for Haloween. Wish me luck!

>>94134286
Good luck, anon

>>94134286
I hope you have a good time.

>>94134286
Don't look back.

>>94134461
>Flatpire the Requiem

>CtD is about going your own way amd seeing wonder in everyday life in an increasingly banal world
>CtL is about victimization with a God complex
>CtL is more popular
Really says a lot about people, really.

I hope you guys don't keep falling for this increasingly obvious edition war troll.

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>>94134486
>CtL is more popular
Was. They're equal now.

>>94134497
Editionwar anon needs something now that gWoD has fallen off and people are just talking about CB, pray for him

>>94134547
I still want someone to make a list of the 8 non-troll regulars. I want to see if I'm there

>>94132812
Thank you, I agree the Sabbat should get some time in the limelight. Though I wouldn't underestimate the normie audience. A lot of pretty fucked shit has gotten onto television within the last decade, if you had the right spin/marketing on it you could maybe, just maybe get away with the Sabbat being a focal point. That and if the protag is properly humanized at first and attainably handsome, you'd be surprised the mental gymnastics people might do to justify his descent into inhumanity.

Also I think showing the more human (not good, far from it) Camarilla perspective would feel a lot more generic to the audience unless the story really focused on the political masquerade and institution manipulating angles, and inspire accusations of sappy melodrama vampires. The Sabbat is further from the norm of how vampires have been depicted recently, so it might give an actually quite old setting come off as more fresh than it is.

>>94134547
>>94134497
Sadly, Freelancer is driven to defend CofD's honour at all cost, so he always takes Pot Stirrer's bait.

>>94134501
>CtL was more popular during the period everyone liked to claim victim status
At least things are correcting themselves now.

>>94132830
Yes. but have you seen the prophecy? You are *consults the scrolls* ...gay and retarded. Possibly even *peers back* ...a nigger.

Hey y'all,
a friend of mine is gonna be running a VtM game for the first time, and me (grognard) and my gf (never did any RPGs before) are gonna be signing up for it.

I never played VTM either, and I was thinking about making a Ventrue, any of y'all got advice for RPing one? I was also curious about what would be a good clan for my gf to pick?

>>94135175
>I was also curious about what would be a good clan for my gf to pick?
Whatever she's most interested in playing.

>>94135175
Which edition?

>>94135225
2nd edition. The club im a member of has alot of books from that era, neatly shelved, including clanbooks and lorebooks like 'Laws of the night'. I think we also have some Hunter: The reckoning from the same era.

>>94135175
>>94135248
For a begginner, I would recommend Toreador, Brujah and Gangrel (not including Ventrue since you already picked up).

The whole boon economy took me a long while to iron out for my games: how the "economy" of those debts work, with harpies basically playing a central banking role, some boons being open secrets, some oh so very public, And some being so risky they're only ever mentioned between interested parties that are in situations so dire they know they're not going to be cheated of their payment. It's pretty interesting when you get in the meat of it. With harpies at risk of getting targeted to force them to share non public data, corrupted or even destroyed to erase ledgers...

>>94125858
>My confusion lies mostly in why one would get their inspiration from there in the first place.
I've read them aleady anyway, why wouldn't I put that to good use?
>Maybe I focus too much on what's wrong.
Masamune Shirow had a way to put it I always liked: sometimes we get so focused on how high the stakes are we miss that they run even higher.
We so much want those books to be good, we forget it's all about the game. Having some fun with people whose company we enjoy. Sometimes even a bit of joy.

That point about derivative ideas making up good base material kept me thinking yesterday, and I wonder how much of it has to do with the realities tabletop RPGs as we practice them. In the end what we make is collective emergent narratives. Starting with a pretty derivative idea ensure all players are on the same page and ready to go crazy with iteration. Trying something new and original can give great results, but also comes with the risk of leaving players in the dark, not really getting what it is you're trying, and/or where to go from there. Cliché situations give a secure framework for improvisation.

>>94128472
>Bone Gnawers suck!
They don't suck. They gnaw. It's in the god danm name!

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>>94134486
I don't know if my exposure to dreaming was unusual but the initial impression was dogshit. The whole "In every level but physical, I am a mythological creature" just felt like a less shitty version of beast in terms of a premise and a mage knock off in terms of what you are supposed to do in game. Also the fact that the most appropriate reaction to Fae possession is to walk into an accounting firm's office is more entertaining than anything else I heard from their lore.
The only reason most people have to get a Dreaming book is to cannibalize its merits and flaws for other game lines like a Metis with 3 arms or a vampire with golden teeth.

>>94135175
If you're new to the game, my advice would be: don't otherthink it. Find one aspect you really like and want to (see in) play while browsing over the character creation process - be it clan structure, power, a particular skill, flaw or narrative point - build around it, and work up from that in play.
Give yourself and other players time. Those things grow.

>>94135175
>I was thinking about making a Ventrue, any of y'all got advice for RPing one?

Heaps. Ventrue can be somewhat challenging to RP due to their intense focus on decorum and rigorous vetting process for neonates. I would suggest reading both Clanbooks on the Ventrue for a fuller image of how they work, but I have a lot of experience playing one.

First consider that not just anyone gets embraced into Clan Ventrue. Contrary to popular belief, they do not exclusively turn people from the upper classes of society, though they are significantly over represented. Ventrue want competent and dignified rulers, even if their origins are common.

Modern Ventrue usually embrace from proven professionals but many still advocate for the "find a teenager with good breeding and all the right traits and talents, then groom them for the embrace until their early to mid 20s" approach. Ventrue are big on dignity and "face", but they don't see something like organized crime as beneath them. Power is power, and that's what it's ultimately about. Have you read their lore at all? I can break it down for you if you'd like.

My short list of tips is
>You are part of the greatest lineage that ever was or will be, but don't let it show too much.
>Even if you don't personally care about the rest of the clan, it's in your best interest to cooperate with them. Save your fury for others.
>You benefit heavily from the Camarilla. Toe the party line.
>Do not make an ass of yourself. Carry yourself with dignity in public, especially around peers.
>Begin polite and charming, but be swift and brutal if you are insulted or undermined.
>You were vetted extensively for the embrace, you were made for this. Be the competent playmaker of your coterie.

What exactly were you thinking for the character concept? The Ventrue are pretty versatile despite their uniform clan culture.

>>94134389
>>94134394
>>94134420
Thanks, I think I've got a good little mystery thriller written up for them solving a strange series of murders in a city where it's been raining nonstop for weeks. Should be a fun time with the ghostbuster gang.

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>>94135340
I have gone through the clanbook somewhat, I jumped the history part past 'Sack of carthage' though, and I did read the part about 'Ventrue's recruitement sources' (this part in particular was chuckle worthy).

I was thinking either going for a mob lawyer/lieutenant that got 'whacked' and embraced before he passed away. Either that or going for a straightup 'Fitzwilliam Darcy' expy. It's my understanding though that picking a 'first business venture' matters alot when making a Ventrue though, no?

>>94135335
Presence feels like a really cool power, and that Ventrue 'ability' of ignoring 'oversuccesses' is a particularly neat addition.

>>94115749
How difficult is it to get a Gangrel to teach you Protean? and what sort of stuff would you have to do to get to the point where one would be willing to teach you.

>>94135248
I guess you have a mix of 2nd and Revised edition, since Revised came out in 1998 and Hunter: The Reckoning had only one edition, from 1999. But Revised and 2nd are pretty compatible with each other.

I'd suggest sticking to the basic seven Camarilla clans. Brujah, Gangrel, Malkavian*, Nosferatu, Toreador, Tremere and Ventrue.

*Malkavian are a weird one, it can be the best or the worst, depending on the Malk player and the overall... mood? of your game.

>>94135886
Teach them something in return.

>>94135886
Protean 2, 3 and 4 are all extremely useful powers in their own right. What do you have to offer in equivalent for giving up that secret?

>>94135864
Both mobster and aristocrat work well for a Ventrue. Your first business is pretty important, especially since you usually did it in life, but it doesn't need to be the defining thing of the character, ya know? Rich people like to have a diverse portfolio for a reason. Also, money matters but it isn't everything. Influence and contacts are also important. Whichever you do, just remember to carry yourself with dignity.

Also a presence based Ventrue is a fun idea, most people get caught up in dominate. Play up that infectious charisma.

>>94135886
It's about a Major Boon's worth. If you have something to offer you might accept a blood bond to their service in exchange for learning it, or you might have to give up a useful asset like a ghoul with connections. This being a Gangrel you might end up having to help them keep their forest territory mostly free to roam in either by sabotaging a logging company, or dissuading the local lupines from taking up residence.

>>94135886
>>94135976
Honest question, When does discipline learning does boil down to something along the lines of
>Walk into Elysium
>Find someone from the clan you want a power from.
>Deal with a Nosferatu/Information Broker instead.
>Payment plot hook.
>Ask them if they can teach you if you teach them another power.
>Deal with another payment plot hook instead.
>Get your power (overpriced garbage).
>Deal with the aftermath plot hook as the guy does something stupid with the powers that you taught them in the previous steps.

>>94136080
>dissuading the local lupines from taking up residence.
Grim

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>>94115749
>How much time do you usually devote to downtime in your chronicles?

Depends on what we're talking about...

>>94135886
I guess it's not V5, right? Learning Protean from Tzimisce or the Ministry sounds like more interesting plot hook than Gangrel.

>>94136218
Pretty much, except what a guy does with his disciplines is his own responsibility.

>>94136354
How do you measure downtime with feet?

>>94136393
>except what a guy does with his disciplines is his own responsibility.
When do little details like that matter to an angry vampire.

>>94136683
I mean, retard shouldn't be angry with you in the first place.
I recommend avoiding brujah-infested places.

>>94136674
in toes sucked

>>94136752
Find me a single city with a single-digit percentage Brujah population

>>94136752
>recommend avoiding brujah-infested places.
Good luck finding a place without the fuckers.

I think the Camarilla made the right choice in replacing the Brujah with the Banu Haqim. If I need a violent hothead clan, I trust the guys that can string a sentence together. Also I know that Paradox is trying to normalize Spanish pronunciations of the aforementioned faction but I speak more Spanish and know more Spanish-speaking people than anyone in Sweden and it will always be CA-ma-RILL-a to me I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK

>>94136868
Camarilla should be the 7 classic clans minus brujah.

>>94136868
People in Poland used to say CA-MA-RIL-LA, with double L. Not sure about new generations of players but I never heard anyone say it otherwise.

Would the Directorate and Amici Noctis collaborate to destroy the Tal'Mahe'Ra? Would they be even larger than it?

>>94135886
>he doesn't have a gangrel in his coterie

>>94137182
Just two clans? Unlikely unless the Directorate would unleash the full might of the Camarilla, then maybe. Tal'mahe'Ra is pretty good at hiding.

Is there a clan that values the sect more than the clan itself?

>>94137295
Fortune isn't he?

>>94137384
I'm presuming it's only largely-known enough for both organizations to bring it up in a meeting, and decide to collaborate in spite of historical emnity. Should be said, the TMR is much larger in network than actual membership. The only two members that could actually command armies were Izhim ur-Baal and Djunah.

>>94137400
Maybe a silent majority of Toreador, but that's the closest, and still a stretch. Of course, Karl Schrect made The Pyramid and the Camarilla do the fusion dance in his ideology.

>>94121801
I'm into it, honestly. As others have said hope was around a lot in WoD already but for this specifically I think it's where a lot of the punk vibes come from for this too. Things are shitty but picking yourself up and telling people to fuck off is a legitimate thing to be doing. You're not helplessly under the thumb of your family, nor incapable of effecting anything worthwhile, but neither do you have so much freedom that there isn't anything to really rail against. Things suck, and will keep sucking, but there is a point to trying still.


>>94122142
I think CB's setting is pretty interesting when looking at it from that angle. I generally don't view either WoD as all that different for mortals a few bits in a few games are but overall it's business as usual unless you're a supernatural yourself. CB has a decent amount of stress on the world being culturally different than ours because humans are growing up with curses being a fact of life. Albeit they're not fully aware of the reality or metaphysics of them. Ghosts are generally accepted to exist, people are a lot more superstitious, all sorts of little rites and stuff like that. It's not a universal thing but it's far more prominent and does make the general culture feels a lot different.

>>94137411
Who the fuck is your coterie's muscle?

>>94122142
I'd say it varies depending on where you're from.

>>94137182
No, because the latest Del'Roh as of V20 is a Ventrue. They probably would just leak some information about the True Hand to the wider Sabbat, enough to make them all go nuts trying to find all the secret Antediluvian simps puppeteering them.

>>94137182
the true black hand is pretty tiny if you go by the adventure at the end of their v20 book 9 Bahari, 6 of which being unnamed neonates, nearly stole the fucking aralu from enoch right under their noses and one competent ancilla coterie is treated like a game changer for them so the problem would 100% just finding them

now they have several powerful members, but again acording to the v20 book they don't give a shit about the sect they belong to the leader of the molochim baali who has higher stats than he should be able to have for his generation? won't lift a finger to help the true black hand in anything non demon related. their mummy? they can't even reliably call this guy. their liches? asleep and when they are awake they only care about enoch

>>94134567
Was CtL the one were you fought against mental institutions and the patriarchy for destroying your fairy soul and had sexualized minors because they were in fact reborn faeries?

>>94138053
No, that's CtD
I think you're replying to the wrong post.

>>94138065
>I think you're replying to the wrong post.
It seems like that.

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Why don't they rerelease the old World of Darkness video games? They are fun.

Help I can't stop coming up with VtM characters I'll never play or use in a game I run.

>>94138272
Branch out and come of with VtR characters you'll never play for a change.

>>94137565
>Who the fuck is your coterie's muscle?
A Nosferatu.

>>94138156
Weird legal situation and fees.

>>94138374
But even the corpse of Interplay managed to release the Dark Alliance games on PC. How can it be worse with the HtR games?

>>94133306
The Outcast manuscript is up on NV now (the rest is still up there too for anyone else)

>>94138389
My guess is that they don't believe it's worth the money.

>>94136263
I didn't say fighting them. Ghouling a bunch of animals as sentries works pretty well.

wheres the fragile path?

>>94138756
Somewhere in Scandinavia.

What's the game called where you play someone who believes he's a mythological creature, emotially abuses humans and hides from people determined to bring him down?

>>94138865
beast: the abuser

>>94138892
Sounds more like Changeling the Grooming.

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>No Escape from the Past…

>You’ve been dead longer than you were alive. You've witnessed the passing of every mortal from your first life—through violence, disease, or the relentless march of time—while you, undying, remain bound to this world. Your nights are haunted by the echoes of history, from the distant whispers of two centuries past to the cataclysmic World Wars and the rise of the modern era.

>Embrace the mantle of the noveaux elders, the ancillae who have seized power in the absence of the true elders, who’ve now fallen or been beckoned away. Become a Kindred of 100, 150, or even 200 years. Detail your backstory and relive the formative trials and tribulations that forged you into the monster you are today. Command the night with the power of centuries behind you with In Memoriam for Vampire: The Masquerade.

>Features

>Dive into and take part in Kindred history through flashback with expanded Memoriam rules.
>Craft Ancilla Characters with enriched rules designed for advanced play.
>Consolidated and Streamlined Memoriam Rules featuring new variations and advanced rules for deeper character development.
>New Lore, Resources & Plotlines surrounding 11 mortal eras and 8 pivotal Kindred events.
>Six New Loresheets that link characters to significant historical moments.
>Learn more about integrating Memoriam rules into your existing stories and how to tie your characters to older events

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>Find yourself a better job!

>Whether you once ran a Monster-X franchise, served in the Special Affairs Division, consulted for the shadowy Arcanum, temped at Re:Venge, or volunteered for the Society of St. Leopold, working with the Orgs means you’ve seen it all — and then some. But when the grind ignites a Drive deep within, it’s time to break free and seek a new path. Step into the shoes of the disillusioned and defiant ex-Org operatives.

>Apostates empowers players to repurpose the assets of their former employers — everything from classified intel to cutting-edge gear and clandestine networks. Play as these rogue agents or unleash them as unpredictable rivals in your Hunter: The Reckoning chronicle. Whether as allies or adversaries, the apostates and their former Orgs are bound to shake up your story.

>Features

>Org details written for players along with Loresheets in Hunter: The Reckoning for the first time!
>Includes many player options with new Perks for your Edges and new Advantages and Flaws!
>Storytelling advice for incorporating apostate characters into any Chronicle with a pre-written story to play through as apostates, and 2 Chronicle sketches to jumpstart your chronicles
>Organizations gain a new spotlight in your Chronicles including S.A.D., Project Twilight and the new Red Eye Community Watch.
>Players have ties to the Orgs and Storytellers may focus games on Orgs as adversaries or rivals that may hunt the Hunters!

>>94138959
>>94138967
No new W5 book announced. Some limited ugly dice tray + dice for 30 bucks are available for pre-order as well, for V5 and W5, not for H5.

So for V5 we got a book about Memoriam, the biggest "I don't care about it" part of V5 that most people forget it even exists.

And for H5 we got a book about being ex-Org that allows to use Orgs as adversaries. God forbid you play as a part of one!

>>94139002
Still far more than what the CofD are getting.

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>>94139002
Ok, I guess they announced pic related to W5, it's just not on Renegade's site, so I'm not sure what's it about.

>>94138272
Post here so I can steal them.

>>94138959
How are three of those bullet points the same thing?

>>94138967
How are three of THOSE bullet points the same thing?!

>>94139019
Only officially. Otherwise VtR has 5 books announced. DtR 2. WtF 5, albeit with not much to show for it. Mage has some nebulous plans. Paradox is getting beaten out by the writers they refuse to greenlight. Which is just so fucking sad. Fucking Curseborne has got more announced than two books at this point.

>>94139274
>WtF 5
3, my bad

>>94138959
>>94139002
>Memoriam, the biggest "I don't care about it" part of V5 that most people forget it even exists.
As the only one around here that seems to care about the mechanic: nice? I definitely wasn't expecting that much.
Players abused it at some point, and it really grew on me from there. As I said up-thread, stetching its original use a bit, it can be a nice way of dealing with downtime for some. We know we have that hole in the timeline, and players can just retroactively create via memoriam past events that will relate to what is currently happening, when they feel it works.

>>94139002
>don't care about it" part of V5 that most people forget it even exists.

i legit forgot what it is, can someone remind me

>>94139039
Until they actually replace the tribes as they are with something interesting and engaging, how can anyone care? Tribes has never really been the best name for them, but now they're nothing. They're a mood you proclaim yourself as and there's no real relationship needed between you and anyone else from the same tribe. Doesn't help that part of W5's mission statement is that the Garou have nothing to teach each other.

VtR specifically, Embracing is a concious action and Revenants are the exception right? You can't force someone to Embrace a childe?

>>94140130
Well, it depends: VtR2 rules say:
>The act of the Embrace is a willful action; Vitae alone is not enough to wake the victim, sire must choose to commit the Embrace. This choice comes at the price of a Humanity dot. This means that the traditional Embrace is never accidental.
However, they also say:
>A sire must choose to commit the Embrace, and that choice comes at the price of a Humanity dot. Posthumous Embraces break that rule. If a mortal has fed from a vampire in at any point in her lifetime, she is a candidate for the posthumous Embrace regardless of her cause of death. Within a week of her death, before significant decomposition sets in, contact with Kindred Vitae could mean she awakens as Kindred. The donor rolls his Blood Potency. If the roll is successful, the corpse rises in seven nights, minus one for every success on the Blood Potency roll. This costs the donor a Humanity dot only if he makes a deliberate choice to attempt an Embrace.
And no, they aren't necessarily Revenants:
>Functionally, they’re identical to any other Kindred.
There's also no telling how far you could go forcing someone to Embrace using blackmail or powerful enough Dominate, it's probably up to the storyteller.

>>94139274
You know, I'm in a wierd position as a nMagefag because each book released got worse and less useful to me, and since the complete 1e lineup gives me everything I need to run my chronicles I'm perfectly happy leaving any future Awakening product to STV fanstuff (some of which I actually rate above most of 2e Mage books in usability).
Quite frankly everytime I hear that DaveB is planning to release a Vault supplement I shiver in dread.

>because each book released
in 2e specifically, 1e has it's awful stinkers but it actually got better over time

>>94140226
Sounds good to me, thanks anon.

Got a Ventrue who's operating as the lynchpin of a Carthian experiment, using his Domiante to facilitate the movement of vast sums of money. The Movement have agreed it best if they diversify their reliance upon an individual, and are asking him to consider siring. But spun a bit nicer, I just want to consider other options.

>>94139019
Because Paradox had to cheat and stopped approving new CofD books.

For Requiem, what's the Devotion for Majesty to have someone else become the source of it? I can't find it in the corebook unless I'm overlooking it, but Majesty is explicitly about the caster and I remember reading a Devotion that allowed someone else to step into the limelight.

>>94138272
Time to make your first tulpa harem

>>94139274
Not in print. And WoD5 has fan supplements, too.

>>94140635
>>94140635
>>94140635
>>94140635

NEW THREAD!

Looking into Curseborne since I just heard about it, is there any equivalent to Lostlings in it yet? That's by far my favorite CofD splat and the only one I feel is a strict improvement over its WoD original in basically every way. From a cursory glance it doesn't look like it, I saw someone say Outcasts are similar but to me that's literally the polar opposite of what I want out of Changeling the Lost. From my understanding, Outcasts are literally modern urban fantasy Tiefling expies born with a special snowflake bloodline because grandaddy fucked a devil or whatever, they're Genasi/Aasimar/Tiefling knockoffs and the iconic is literally a purple Tiefling with horns....which is the complete opposite of a Changeling the Lost character, who doesn't have powers because of some naruto fanfic bloodline but because they are a human being who managed to survive Arcadia and was warped by exposure before making it back.

Like, the themes are polar opposites, I don't want Raven from Teen Titans with ~daddy issues~ as the driving goal, the whole point of Lost is that they WERE human but now AREN'T, not that they're beautiful butterflies discovering their ~true selves~ and ~ancient mystical bloodline heritage ~

I guess Sorcerer is flexible enough you can just proxy anything with it and say "I'm a wizard because X" but it feels kind of retarded that the most popular CofD splat that was successful enough it was getting new books even just a couple years ago like Kith &Kin doesn't have an equivalent. I don't want to be a goddamn Tiefling, they were only cool in 4th edition when they were an entire empire transformed by the ruler's pact with Asmodeus and were the setting equivalent of Rome