>>94140635
But what about Curseborne?

>>94140571
Which VtR Edition? If it's 1st, I can try search for you.

>>94140681
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

With Onyx Path killing of the CofD in favor of Curseborne, are any STV titles worth checking out?

>>94140722
All STV titles made by No More Darkness since they're made by OPP authors. They update almost all Bloodlines for 2e, a Rome 2e supplement, are starting to go through Covenants and did a Changeling 2e supplement. Also Chris Allen supplements are neat.
I personaly recommend Darker Days materials. They do 1e more than 2e, but they have nice ideas. They have some Mortals pre-made adventures and published a Changeling Venice and Sin-Eaters Paris books. It's worth checking out.

>>94140635
how big is that wolf

>>94140817
He has the huge size merit

what is the equivalent of parkour civilization in WoD?

>>94140708
Either is fine really, I have a vague memory of it but I just wanted to know it existed.

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>Today, we summarize the new products revealed during yesterday's Renegadecon stream.
>Vampire: The Masquerade - In Memoriam - book focusing on playing Ancilla characters, and exploring your characters' past.
>Hunter: The Reckoning - Apostates - org-focused sourcebook for Hunter.

So... A full book about playing Ancilla and another book like the Sabbat. Life is hard for a V5 player living in a Renegade era.

>>94140830
The camarilla

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>>94140571
>>94140831
It's on the first page of the codex anon, come on

>>94140831
I searched on Codex of Darkness and while >>94140870 answered first, there are other Majesty Devotions with similar effect of granting someone else Majesty's effects. Just ctrl+F "Majesty" on codex page and have fun looking at the others: https://codexofdarkness.com/wiki/Devotions_(1st_Edition)

>How attatched are your players with NPCs?
Depends on the splat we're playing. Geist was the only time anyone really truly cared.

>>94140635
>kinfolk edition
So is that then a high pure breed kinfolk that delivers the knot to needy garou looking to whelp the next generation?

>>94140830
>parkour civilization
the French?

I should write up again, since I deleted it my cringe homebrew VtR bloodline so I have an excuse to force everyone else to post theirs as well

>>94140899
>Geist was the only time anyone really truly cared.
Tells us more about it.

>high pure breed kinfolk that delivers the knot
There's an anon who plays as a Pure Breed Kinfolk Alchemist. He probably could transform his dick into a knot if he wanted.

>>94140238
Awakening2 was a solution in search of a problem. The original core book wasn't perfect, but it did a far better job presenting the setting then the 2nd edition. It still have some references to Ascension, but compared to Requiem, it were Subtle Ones. Except the Tremere, but those are cool.

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vtmb2 ain't coming

>>94140922
>Tells us more about it.
Jimmy the accountant was the standout example. It was a 1920s gangster game with a revolving storyteller, though I was definitely the ST the most. Krewe included
>Six Finger Fink (nickname was a joke, he was missing his left pinky), a gunman with industrial caul. His geist was one of two related to a factory explosion, the ghost of someone who died merged with the spirit of the blast furnace. Downed four cops in a car in a single full auto burst then failed to do more than two points of damage to a dog over like three or four turns. Actually a mental character. Torn.
>The larger part of the muscle of the operation, possessed by The Silent Partner, an earth spirt that ate the ghost of a murderer that was buried in the soil corresponding to it in the shadow. Used grave dirt shroud. My character. Killed the fuck out of a dog with a piano wire garotte. Torn.
>The other geist from the accident. Sin eater died in the accident, used to be a union boss. Geist was an emotion spirit that had come to feed on the suffering that somehow got lost. One of two social characters, #1 source of bad decisions. Used marionette. Forgotten.
>The only character that actually tried to get us to go into the underworld. Used to be old money when they were alive. Geist was the only one with previous sin-eaters; last host had been run around as a wretched for quite some time. Geist was a nasty piece of work, had something to do with drowning or freezing to death I don't remember exactly. Used boneyard, had the best social stats. Was the bartender for most of the early chronicle. Silent.

>>94141322
Should have called it Vampire the Masquerade: Concord instead.

>>94140922
>>94141329
The throughline in geist was that we were mostly concerned about not getting anyone killed who we didn't want dead, which naturally meant trying to keep our employees out of harm's way. Considering we were getting both gang related and supernatural heat, this involved a lot of going out of our way to make sure people were okay and nobody was fucking with them. Jimmy was the group favorite probably because he was completely irrelevant and introduced first (and had a name), but he was also the mortal that was in the room when we made our harebrained schemes so he would, in theory, have had a lot of screentime if he ever really said anything. Being defensive about jimmy probably had to do with this because he had to be escorted out of combat scenes.

I feel like it's harder to bond with NPCs in the other splats because you're too worried about your own life. If we ever seriously played much werewolf I could see the same thing happening, but we weren't fans.

>>94141126
Awakening 1e had better mechanics as well, though.

>>94141322
The article explains how they're pushing Bloodlines 2 out come hell or high water, but they're not bothering with RPGs after that.

>>94141322
why did they even buy the IP in the first place? Paradox customers want strategy games not FPS-RPGs

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>>94141335
>Awakening 1e had better mechanics as well, though.
That, too. Free Council could have used a better book, but most of the supplements were great.

I swear to god I remember (changeling) players being able to create the Prophetic Paths from Dancers in the Dusk or do something like it, but I can't find any evidence of it. Am I crazy? Was this real?

>>94141387
>2e books and a billion of the awful early books like keys but none of the later books like IR or equinox roads
>even less VtR than WtF
>more PROMETHEAN of all things
What an eclectic collection.

>>94141456
Equinox Roads is betweem Lords of Summer and Dancers in the Dusk. And Keys was a pretty late book.
WtF is better than VtR
I got the Promethean books pretty cheap.

>>94141481
>Equinox Roads is between Lords of Summer and Dancers in the Dusk.
Oh, you're right. I didn't even see left handed path, my mind didn't parse that as an actual book lole. I can barely even read imperial mysteries' title.

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>>94140635
>How attatched are your players with NPCs?

Only if they have a certain foot width

>>94141636
Obsessedbro, give the shitgoat a break.
Or at least mark his images as spoilers so I don't have to look at him.

>>94140722
Paradox killing CofD, you mean. OPP would make more of they were allowed to.

Any of the None More Dark stuff is great though. The 2e Clanbooks are especially full of great stuff, but so are the Bloodline books. A new Bloodline book is next up too. The DtR Player's Guide, Shallow Graves, is also excellent and made by the DtR dev. He's got a ST Guide and a Night Horrors in the works too. Chris Falco does really good stuff too IMO and you should throw a dollar at Chris Allen's Patreon if you're into WtF. He's not put a book out yet but has a load of stuff there, some for MtC too.

>>94141723
You can give it a rest, shillkun

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>>94141685
Since you asked, just for you

But, remember, don't play a Nephandi. It can hurt you irl

>>94140842
I hate this stupid live action cosplay “art” style Paradox is pushing. It’s fucking awful.

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>>94140842

>Middle of a goon sesh
>Almost reaching climax
>Accidentally teleport myself to the Smithsonian
Problems of being an Ecstatic.

>>94141387
One of the things that saddens me is that the company that had the license to translate the nWoD books gave up on doing it before the Awakening books got past Boston Unveiled and Secrets of the Ruined temple.
I'm so jealous of the Requiem people who got all Covenant books and most Clan books translated before the end.

>>94142299
I mean in my country, obviously,

>>94141335
>>>94141126
>Awakening 1e had better mechanics as well, though.
There are some things I quibble with, although I agree with this general sentiment.

In general my approach to post-GMC updated rules comes down to picking and choosing here and there what I like, what fits my group and what fits with own houserules.

>>94140635
Yesterday my Brujah Sheriff used Majesty to break up the Coterie's bickering over kine being casualties of a raid. Everyone gets hit with an aura of dread authority and the stare of "shut the fuck up I am speaking now". Cut to my Daughter of Cacophany player muttering ingame "just when I thought she couldn't get any hotter."
Meanwhile my Brujah is plotting against her sire with an Anarch, and my Nosferatu's best friends are his swarm of ghouled rats.

I was looking in the Mega for oWOD Ventrue character sheets, and it seems the uploads are corrupted. Anyone got backups?

>>94140842
Wow what a huge load of nothing.
>>94140681
I don't think their inclusion in the OP is necessary.

>>94142160
Why?
>>94141799
>But, remember, don't play a Nephandi. It can hurt you irl
Also why? With that mentality playing anything but hunters is bad for you.

>>94143169
Isn't that stuff all up on Mr.Gone's site?

>>94140907
I'm still working on a Giant revenant but there really isn't all that much to do with the premise

Asking again since the thread died
>>94143196

>>94143169
Are you talking about characters or the blank sheets? I think I have a couple of characters saved somewhere.

>>94143261
To the best of my knowledge, no.

>>94143261
I would've said it's the Outcasts >>94143141 . I don't really get the same read on them as you do though. If you don't want any sort of ancestry angle to them, which they don't even have to have as a universal rule, you might want to be a Chimera. Those guys are self-made. But "we were human and now we aren't" is sorta how all the Accursed work. Like, it's a curse and you have been cursed to be something you were not before that.

>>94141382
They've published some good RPGs under their licenses. Remember they own Shadowrun and Battletech and pushed the Harebrained RPGs for both. Dragonfall and Hong Kong are both inspiration material for me when working on sessions.

>>94143312
Pretty sure they don't own Shadowrun and only acquired HBS after they'd made those SR games.

>>94143268
>To the best of my knowledge, no.
That's genuinely baffling, unless they're so confident in their success that they're copying AAA videogames with the "intentionally leaving desired characters out of the "base roster" in order to sell them as day 1 DLC" strat, so the first splatbook will be for "The Changed" or something who are a new totally-not-lostling lineage with maybe some Deviant adjacent options too so you can be Kamen Rider supernatural Cyborgs.

like, you're telling me fucking "ghosts possessing your own dead body and able to leave and possess others" made it to Core but not Lost? How many goddamn people have unironically played a campaign with Risen ? They're literally such an afterthought that you just get knockoff Vampire Disciplines. They included a goddamn Kuei Jin/Risen proxy (both are souls possessing their own corpse) before fucking Lost? Are you shitting me? Who asked for core rulebook Kuei Jin? Especially when there's already an explicitly undead option in the book via Hungry, why the hell aren't the spooky ghost niggas just a subtype of Hungry?

>>94143263
Blank sheets,
>>94143248
It is, but for some reason the one from MrGone's differs from the clanbook one, not that I know if it matters, really.

>>94143328
Just play CtL dude, it's still right there. Not everything needs your pet splat forced into it.

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>>94143333
Forgot to attach this,

>>94143337
Mr.Gone has different versions for more or less pages, they'll be one that has all the bits you want.

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>>94143304
>which they don't even have to have as a universal rule
You're telling me you don't look at pic related and see a purple Tiefling? Who's literally an urban fantasy Lawyer whose devil blood makes her legalistic and good at arguing?
This is the ICONIC Outcast mind you. I don't see how you can look at this and *not* see that it's a Tiefling.
This is said iconic's pov explanation of what outcasts are
>Of course, most of us start off thinking we’re human. It’s only later you find out that someone in your family was cast out from another place, another somewhere. We call this somewhere the Outside, adding to the irony of our existence — we have been abandoned by everything that isn’t here, and most of the time we don’t even know which part of the Outside we’ve been banished from. Worse, it’s a generational sentence. Somewhere in the dim mists of supernatural history, a great-great-great-great-grandparent got kicked out of the Silver City or the Glowing Abyss for loving a human too hard, or providing succor to a secret enemy, or any of a thousand other reasons.

that's literally just dungeons and dragons plane touched. You could attribute this quote to somebody from Sigil and it wouldn't be out of place. "I have magical superpowers because my distant ancestor had a forbidden romance with a mortal" are you fucking kidding me bro?

>>94143351
I mean, if you just want to argue about the goth game I'm not really here for that. I don't care if you like or dislike it. I think they've got more going on than you do, you disagree. Not much more to say beyond that.

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>>94143328
>unless they're so confident in their success that they're copying AAA videogames with the "intentionally leaving desired characters out of the "base roster" in order to sell them as day 1 DLC" strat,
for the record this is exactly what they're doing. They're not even hiding it.
>We have long known that Fae creatures are a popular supernatural creature type and we aren’t ignoring them. They’re baked into our game from the start. We’ve had plans for them since the beginning, but their truth belongs in another book that can fully explore who and what they are. So the core Curseborne book sets the stage, and gives you hints.
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-the-fae/
So yes, the answer why there's no Lost is because they know it's the only CofD splat people actually like and know people will paypig an entire second Kickstarter for another book once this one released. There's not thousands of people willing to pour cash into playing goddamn Kuei Jin which is why they're there as filler in the CRB since nobody would buy them separate.

Truly, Onyx Path have learned from Paradox in the worst ways possible.

>>94143371
They are sorta like tieflings tho

>>94143425
>no one likes ghosts
Okay

>>94143460
I never said they weren't. I said they had more going on than that and I wasn't getting the same read on them. They made it pretty clear what they want to do here and I'm not going to feed their tantrum.

>>94143460
>>no one likes ghosts
Yeah. We've known this for decades.
>Wraith
>Geist
>Mummy
>Risen
>Kuei Jin
totally super popular and beloved splatbooks am I right

>>94143486
Anon, do you think WoD invented ghosts? Honest question.

i want to get into v20 as my first vtm game. what is the most amount of d10s i would need for a single roll? i am planning on getting the chessex ankh dice for it and i need to know if i should get 20 or 30. i know the game can get really high level which increases dice rolled but surely there’s a limit right? just want to make sure i have enough of these dice for any possible rolls no matter how uncommon they may be

>>94143486
>only make what's popular
go back to eating your slop

>>94143460
If they were actually full time ghosts it might be interesting but they're required to have a body and the default is "possessing your own dead body" which is the single most boring route possible. How many Danny Phantom enthusiasts are there chomping at the bit to play this specific archetype of undead instead of just being a damn vampire, who are ALSO dead souls cursed to reside in their own body rather than move on? And we know vampires are explicitly undead in Curseborne, they're not going for the Strain style infected or whatever, they're still actual corpses animated by magic

>>94143518
more like "only print what's good"
Wraith sucks massive cocks and Geist is a """ghost game""" where you aren't actually interacting with ghosts since only Mages are allowed to deal with souls

>>94143326
Yeah you're right I got mixed up. Catalyst owns that. I somehow tricked myself into thinking they were a subsidiary of Paradox but no, it's another arm of the Topps octopus.

>>94143525
You can ghost around about as much as you want so long as your body doesn't get destroyed, then you just have to find a new one. Not sure there is really much of a soul angle to the vampires here. Ghosts and souls are also not the same thing here either AFAIK

>>94143544
NTA but the Dead seem fun. So there isn't a problem.

>>94143556
I'm fairly sure it's that souls become ghosts but it's somewhat transformative so ghosts and souls are different stats of the same thing?

>>94143567
That sounds about right, so I'll take your word for it.

>>94143486
Wraith absolutely is a beloved splatbook even if it's harder to play. People love that setting and the idea of the game even if they don't play it as much as Vampire. Hell, I run games of Orpheus so there's definitely more people out there playing the spooky afterlife side of things.
Oh and if you have VR go look up Wraith: The Oblivion: Afterlife. It's a pretty solid Wraith experience.

>>94143544
>waaaah make a game just for me or I'll piss and cry
Die mad. You're not owed anything.

>>94143525
I'm fairly certain that's the end game for them. OPP have talked about the splats changing as their power stat increases and that they want to do some higher tier books sort of like Scion did. There are Dead in canon that don't need bodies at all so I can't imagine that's not where they'll end up.

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>>94143595
>Die mad. You're not owed anything.
well, the good news is we live in a world where voting with your wallet is the only language developers care about or understand, which is why they're doing the tabltop equivalent of Fighting Game Season Passes where the most in-demand character is in the first DLC rather than the base game. AKA why Tekken has fucking Geese as a DLC character instead of the base roster. Because they know people will buy an entire DLC for Geese, but not for Shaheen.

Wraith is like, the Mii Gunner of splatbooks. Everyone says they like the idea of it but nobody fucking plays it and the execution is middlling

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>>94144018
>Lost is the 2B's ass of CofD
it's basic economics. if 2B's fat ass is in the base game instead of DLC, then you can't double-dip on people buying both. Just be thankful there's no gacha involved

>>94144018
>>94144101
>video game metaphors
In english, for those of us who actually get laid?

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>>94144120
>In english, for those of us who actually get laid?
>>94143425
>>We have long known that Fae creatures are a popular supernatural creature type and we aren’t ignoring them. They’re baked into our game from the start. We’ve had plans for them since the beginning, but their truth belongs in another book that can fully explore who and what they are. So the core Curseborne book sets the stage, and gives you hints.
>https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-the-fae/
>So yes, the answer why there's no Lost is because they know it's the only CofD splat people actually like and know people will paypig an entire second Kickstarter for another book once this one released. There's not thousands of people willing to pour cash into playing goddamn Kuei Jin which is why they're there as filler in the CRB since nobody would buy them separate.
>Truly, Onyx Path have learned from Paradox in the worst ways possible.

>>94144225
CtLfags really are just paypigs.

>>94143506
10d10 would be plenty to go around. if you're rolling more than that your game is toast.

>>94139514
>Memoriam
>i legit forgot what it is, can someone remind me
p311-314 of V5
Basically allows players to set up a flash back scene from their past that ties to the present, allowing them - if all goes well - to claim some advantage toward what's currently happening.
For example, the players are looking up for the entrance to a secret Mithraic cult. One goes: "I think my character actually went there once a few decades ago". The player set up the scene, we play a more or less small flash back. If things went well, the character does know/remember, if not, generally ends up empty-ended, with some willpower damage.
It can be a very fun mechanic if the DM likes to share a modicum of narrative power with other players. As I mentioned previous thread, it's a decent way to deal with downtime, cheating things a bit to make it all related to the action at hands.
I wasn't sold on it running Fall on London, but later on players went mad with it trying to one up one another ("highlander time!"); and things really kicked into gear.
That said, as much as I've been asking for a second iteration, I don't know that it's going to fill much space in a book. It's a neat little mechanic that's neat, becasue it's so small.

>TQ
NPCs are all hit or miss, and you never really know what's going to stick. Most are at best serviceable background noise, and that's good enough for me if I get that.
Some strikes gold and are long remembered. My interpretation of Andreas Gioanni in Nuova Malattia was so hated I have notebooks full of at least one "fuck(ing) Andreas" per page, with one player actually making a flip-book animation of it.
Funny anecdote: last year (maybe last year and a half? time flies) I finally killed an old favourite pet character of mine, an old ghoul that had basically been used to teach the ropes to new players for a good decade. To my suprise, some player I hadn't seen since before lockdown messaged me to say I really was a bastard.
You do never know.

>>94143326
>>94143552
Shadowrun is kind of a mess, license-wise. Last I checked it's Microsoft that owned the right for making video games adaptation of the franchise, which they agreed to lease to HBS in no small part because the studio founder, Jordan Weisman, was also one of the creators of the original RPG license.
It's my understanding Paradox after acquiring the studio actually forced their hand into making a tactical game, which I think isn't bad, but not what people expected/wanted. It underperformed.
Now HBS is back to being indie, and my understanding (don't quote me on that though) is that it had to leave the right to their back catalogue as leverage to be let go. So now the game made by HBS under license from Microsoft are selling for the coffers of Paradox.
At least their next game will be an RPG.
The whole licensing mess is such a clusterfuck when you try to look into it.

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>>94144258
that's what happens when you have an entire system with literally ONE splat worth playing compared to its predecessor.
>VTR
Why on earth wouldn't you just play Masquerade? Even if you hate V5 (as you probably do), just play Anniversary or Dark Ages or whatever. The half-assed clans-sharing-same-names-but-not-being-the-same-thing is dumb and confusing.
>WTF
again, if you're interested in this game you're probably already playing Apocalypse. If they were going to finally make a fucking werewolf game about *actually* being werewolves who are bitten with a cursed bite and turn into shapeshifting monsters, this was the time to do it, but no you're still actually a separate species of hominid who act as eco-terrorists and supernatural border patrol agents. Everyone knows when asked "Do you wanna be a werewolf?" that players are really picturing a furry I.C.E agent, right?
>Awakening
somehow manages to be insufferable and hogging the spotlight just like Ascension but in a slightly different way. Bonus points for ditching Paradigms and just making Mages totally correct and objectively right about the universe so Dave can jerk off harder. The "all humans are latent reality warpers and shared consensus is what actually determines whether something works" element of Ascension was the most interesting part. Exarchs and Seers are the most boring fucking antagonists ever put to paper in any WoD splat as well.

CTL is the only splatbook that took the idea of "take an existing WoD splat, and turn it on its head in an equally compelling way" and actually followed through. It is in many ways the inverse of Dreaming, which is why it's even popular to backport Lost to oWoD and run both in the same world, you'd never run VTR vamps *and* VTM vamps together since it'd be retarded and nonsensical. Fae soul in human body vs human soul in fae body, avoiding Banality vs seeking Clarity, the "fail state" being you turn into a normal human vs losing humanity and becoming True Fae

>>94141956
The new artistic direction has been pretty much the main point of contention against it in my experience, and the major reason the game took so long to find players.
One guy in the local club still refuses to even open the books.

>>94140722
>Onyx Path killing off CofD
Damn does Paradox pay you? Can I get on this? I wouldn't mind some discounts on my map-painting DLCs.

>>94144407
Hedgefag won't fuck you, anon, you can give it a rest

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>>94144429
unfortunately anon, everyone who likes Lost is not literally one guy on 4chan; there's a reason its kickstarter both raised more (even accounting for multiple years of retarded inflation) and had signiicantly more backers than the entirety of Curseborne. It helps that it's also one of the only WoD or CofD games where "What do you actually DO in a campaign?" is actually pretty easy to understand and play out, instead of people just imagining a hypothetical campaign they never actually play (both iterations of Mage are super guilty of this).
The basic premise and innate plot hooks are very easy to galvanize player action right from the get go.
>1. There's a fucking doppelganger made of twigs and scraps pretending to be you and living your life. What the fuck are you gonna do about it?
>2. The equivalent of your Sire knows you're AWOL and is sending supernatural thugs to break your legs and drag you back. What are you gonna do about it?
>3. You are an involuntary schizo and require non-batshit-supernatural interactions to not go insane. How do you accomplish this without blowing your cover?
>4. You need to incite or feed on specific emotions to harvest glamour to accomplish all of the above. How are you going to do it?
A lot of splats have people kind of waffle about and not really have a concrete goal in mind, especially if the equivalent of "feeding" is easy or trivialized. I'd say only Vampire has more of an obvious motivation and kick-in-the-player's ass to get actually doing stuff, since their weaknesses are so debilitating you need to immediately address shit like "How do I not burn to death in the fucking sun and also avoid being staked in my sleep while doing so?", it also helps that vampire media is so prolific people have a general idea of common scenarios and ideas to play out

>>94144407
VTR: Because the mechanics are better, and it's a much more interesting political landscape than the "grey wants to keep the secret vs lets eat babies faction" conflict of VtM. Plus no Caine means vamps can be weirder and come from lots of places.
WtF: Because you don't want to play morons fighting a losing war, and the whole spiritual patrol thing is neat.
Awakening: Because Consensual Reality is fucking stupid.

>>94144557
>WtF: Because you don't want to play morons fighting a losing war
the Uratha are still morons just like the Garou, and they're still losing. Everyone knows the true curse for woofs is that they're all fucking retarded.

>>94144549
It's incredible. You're so mad you failed to read a single sentence correctly.

>>94144421
OPP staff get really asshurt when you point this one out, huh

>>94144843
IDK if he's trying to imply CofD isn't getting Old Yeller'd (it factually is, storytellers vault shit is like saying DM's guild shit counts as first party, don't be stupid) or if he's objecting to the attribution that it's *Onyx Path* killing off CofD, when it's more accurate to say that it's Paradox killing them off by refusing to license anything new or greenlight any projects. Either way we're not getting anything new until the IP is sold off again

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Name a better combo: Protip, you can't

Anyone have the thing that described the impact drinking supernatural blood had on vampires? I remember werewolves made them frenzy, mages were like a hallucinogen, can't remember the others.

If >you awakened as an uratha one day, what is your plan to transcend your mortality and not one day die an embarassing death as a lesser being than any given sleeper?

>>94144868
>if he's objecting to the attribution that it's *Onyx Path* killing off CofD, when it's more accurate to say that it's Paradox killing them off by refusing to license anything new or greenlight any projects.
Let's be real, this is only a product of OPP deliberately fucking the series and doing everything in their power to leave it to die and blaming paradox so they can try to shill their new series.

>>94144924
>If >you awakened as an uratha one day, what is your plan to transcend your mortality and not one day die an embarassing death as a lesser being than any given sleeper?
go to arcadia and knot a white woman gentry while bullying the fuck out of her changeling slaves.

>>94144913
It's in the core book.
Later splats have it written in their own books but not the core as far as I can tell.
>mages were like a hallucinogen, can't remember the others.
Changeling is also a frenzy penalty check. IIRC no bonus vitae. Sin eaters and Promies don't have vitae.

>>94144913
>Anyone have the thing that described the impact drinking supernatural blood had on vampires?
It should be on the V20 corebook right after the mundane drugs. iirc mages also got vampires high and mummies did aggravated damage because Egyptian sun bullshit. Everyone else was to irrelevant to give them an effect.

Ever since the Curseborne kickstarter came out, these fucking threads have been plagued with far too much shit-stirring. Can we please consider separate WoD and OPP generals in the future? OPP fans have made it clear that they consider WoD to be lesser slop compared to CofD and Curseborne, while WoD fans have no desire to have their general bogged down with incessant Curseborne chatter, which is so substantial that it's spilled out of the general and there have been hundreds of posts about it outside of this general.

After all, Curseborne might be inspired by WoD, but it's unique and different enough that it is its own thing and not just a clone, right? Therefore, it should be able to stand on its own and appeal to people on its own without using the WoD general as a crutch.

>>94144924
>you awakened as an uratha one day
I am pretty fucked. Transcendence is almost certainly out of the question, the best I can hope for is getting my life together with some supernatural help.

>>94145130
While I get where you are coming from, odds are there won't be enough for a general thread given how much slower this board has become in recent months. Like how this general used to be two separate ones for a few years before fusing together.

>>94145130
OWoD and nWoD belong in the same general. Some of us here even combine the two, like myself, and it's not uncommon to replace CtD with CtL even if combining nothing else.

No one will ever play Curseborne so it's functionally irrelevant whether we talk about it in /wodg/ where it shares a system, or leave it for /hsg/.

>>94145130
>these fucking threads have been plagued with far too much shit-stirring
>immediately launches into ICBM level shitstirring
As you can clearly see from this thread most of the pushback to OPP shilling is from nwod players you disingenuous swine.
We already kicked the curseborne grifters out but their thread got zero traction on it's own and they abandoned it when the entire response from the rest of /tg/ was negative and the corpse of the thread was only kept up by people talking about cofd. You're asking for literal employees of a company trying to plug their kickstarter to not post here when it's obvious this is the best reception the shills are able to get on the site.
The real solution would be for the curseborne general to move to /b/.

>>94145143
You could, in theory, find an archmage to turn you back into not-a-woof and try to awaken after that now that you're a sleepwalker.

So with the Pax Arcana being a thing in MtAw, what exactly can an Archmage do beyond "regular" mage stuff

>>94145130
If it's not Curseborne it'll be something else. Before this it was gWoD. It's always some edition war or some other bullshit. The topic isn't important, just don't feed the trolls.

>>94144586
Uratha are like 67IQ kind of retarded. Garou are padded helmet, drooling potato face downie retarded. Entirely different leagues of retard.

>>94144369
Good god that's an enormous tangle of serpents. Thank you for picking it apart anon I don't think I would have had the patience to deep dive on that.

>>94145281
That actually makes the Garou the more interesting of the two. Boring, barely functional idiots versus weird and wacky retards having the time of their lives who do all sorts of crazy shit.

>>94145327
I'm not the biggest fan of the Forsaken or the Garou Nation. The Pure are pretty cool though.

>>94145193
>You could, in theory, find an archmage to turn you back into not-a-woof and try to awaken after that now that you're a sleepwalker.
I wasn't even talking about that. Just how I have practically zero useful knowledge for a forsaken and how many people dealing with that side would involve.

>>94145259
>what exactly can an Archmage do
Farm quints. Check'em when other people start making overt moves to farm quints. Remember:
A) It's not illegal if nobody finds out
B) It's not illegal if they broke the law first
The supply of total fucking morons doesn't dry up just because you move to arcarna 6. You can always go looking for other archmages who are doing the wrong thing to use as an excuse for why you totally had to cast your excision ritual or imperial rite or whatever that conveniently changes the world in a way that convenient for your ascension.
>beyond "regular" mage stuff
You're not allowed to do regular mage stuff for the most part, that violates the invisible war (which in turn means other archmages get to fuck you up)

>>94144586
>Uratha are still morons just like the Garou
Not really, they're in a shit position most of the time but that's because the Pure offer a better deal to most spirits.

Reminder that my magical nocturnal beasts of eco-radicalism are the only sensible way to pull vampires out of being autumn people, into having actual Glamour.

>>94142299
The translators in my country gave up before Awakening. It wasn't a huge loss, as their translations were often times pretty bad, like translating Uktena Banetender as Uktena Barkeeper.
They also stopped translating D&D 4 at the same time and went from one of the biggest local publishers to nothing.

>>94145361
>You're not allowed to do regular mage stuff for the most part
Wait what, I thought they were just banned from major reality changes and stuff. Basically everything involving imperial magic

>>94144913
I think drinking Hunter blood makes you vomit

>>94145385
Who gives a shit about the Faeries?

>>94145423
Because the Imbued can't be vulnerable like normies on any single way despite being called hunters. Fuck that splat for failing to deliver anything of worth.

>>94144924
>Let's be real, this is only a product of OPP deliberately fucking the series and doing everything in their power to leave it to die and blaming paradox so they can try to shill their new series.
You mean like how Vigil 2E was outselling H5 while being superior in every way?

It's entirely about Paradox removing competition to the 5th edition trash.

Curseborne is a result of Paradox being whiny little shits about the license WW/OPP originally created, not OPP's choices.

>>94145436
They're an interesting aspect of the setting because no one else in the setting has any clue about what they are. They just float through the night making transactional relationships sometimes.

>>94145130
Just ignore the one obviously retarded troll and there isn't a problem.

>>94145468
See the above.

>>94145506
>They're an interesting aspect of the setting because no one else in the setting has any clue about what they are.
That's a decent chunk of why I dislike the fuckers, they don't feel like they want to be player characters. Most of their concepts feel like something you deal with as a mortal or mage in a one shot scenario.

Anyone here know anything about Dark Ages: Fae? I'm contemplating using it to bridge the gap between CtD and CtL. But the part about Changelings in it is a little unclear- they occur when a fae child and a human child are swapped, but are both of them changelings or just one (and which one)?

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What would be an appropriate way to stat a hunting rifle like this? Do I just increase the capacity of the standard one to 8 rounds or should I do something else?

>>94143233
Satanic panic, probably. Everything else in WoD can be described as misunderstood monsters or objectively evil people, but the Nephandi are one of the few options which are Satanic in nature, alongside the Baali. It's hard to determine whether Phil was just trying to ward off accusations that WoD was encouraging/endorsing Satanism, or whether Phil was genuinely concerned that players could be making themselves vulnerable to demonic influence by playing Satanic characters.

>>94145413
>Wait what, I thought they were just banned from major reality changes and stuff. Basically everything involving imperial magic
You're allowed to use magic, what you're not allowed to do is directly participate in mage society. You can't fight normal mages for the most part because they're the property of other archmasters*, you aren't allowed to stay in mage organizations (although seers do, they just promote you out of sight (and it's still illegal, technically), and this is a tenet that people break the most), etc.. The exact rules of this aren't ever clearly written down so to a great extent it's my headcanon. When you read other mage books and they say why archmages don't really matter in those games thoug that's the impression I get. E.g. from Seers:
>Ochemata who casually kill and dominate people in the material realm invite retribution from other powerful entities.
>The Exarchs are apparently permitted to blatantly oppose powerful beings, but can’t directly influence the material plane except to oppose rivals who break the pact. There are signs that every side in the Ascension war cheats to one degree or another, too

*same goes for vampires etc. depending on how you read pg. 36

>>94145622
What game? Big-Game Rifles have stats in the first Armoury.

>>94145468
sure thing fag
>Vigil 2E was outselling H5
This is just over vigil 1e being a better game than HtR though, has nothing to do with anything OPP has done in the last decade.

>>94145130
>Ever since the Curseborne kickstarter came out, these fucking threads have been plagued with far too much shit-stirring.
this is literally the most tame, baby's first edition war ever seen; if you genuinely feel this way you must have legit zero experience with ttrpgs. just wait until M5 comes out and wizards are all hobos who can't even afford to pay rent, Paradox is just renamed Hunger dice, and the technocracy are bad because they invented Capitalism, while the Traditions are the good guy anti fascists (please ignore the fact they would canonically allow 95% of current Sleepers to die or be eaten by dragons if they win the Ascension war); THEN you'll see what actual shit flinging looks like

>>94145583
>Anyone here know anything about Dark Ages: Fae?
Second hand knowledge so take this with a pinch of salt, the dark age dreaming are almost identical to CtL goblins. They are out and about causing chaos, murdering one another and just being as alien as they can be.
The art of infecting children with autism is either very nice or very unpopular because it's not necessary given how miserable and superstitious everything is.

>>94145684
That wouldn't lead to an edition war, just a unified dog-piling on Paradox, which is nothing new. Curseborne is the battleground of an actual edition war, with shills and haters and everything in between bitching and whining at each other. /wodg/ would present a unified front against M5, as it did with W5, H5 and V5.

>>94145703
>/wodg/ would present a unified front against M5
M5 would literally be just regular MtAss though, any mention of it is just an opportunity to punch down on ascenionfags

>>94145718
All forms of Mage are shit. The consensufags of Ascension and the power-fantasists of Awakening deserve each other.

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>>94145667
>What game? Big-Game Rifles have stats in the first Armoury.
CofD. I'm just trying to figure out how to make a good upgrade to a big game rifle given how pic related is supposed to kill an elephant in two rounds.

>>94145661
"No!"
He's a post-modern chaos magician. He thinks that "pretending" to summon qlippot "ironically" wills that shit into reality.

>>94145833
I guess he was right then, playing asc really does give you brain damage

Ascension was the D&D 5 of its time. Tons of people declaring it the greatest thing ever while ignoring significant parts of the game and just inserting their own fanon.
Magefags might be even more insufferable than 5e players, though.

>>94145854
I thought that was Awakening

>>94145726
>>94145854
The problem is Mage has the most annoying vocal fan base online precisely because it's among the least actually played games. All the people with Mage books just spend all their time online theory crafting and fantasizing about what they WOULD do in a hypothetical game and then get into arguments about how they could pwn all the other splats in whiteroom combats to make up for not actually being able to play one. This is only worsened by the fact the mechanics of both Ascension and Awakening encourage metagaming and knowing the "objective truth" of reality to get more out of your powers, "my paradigm is my character has a copy of the rulebook and knows what spheres are" nonsense being outright encouraged by the developers not helping either. So you've got a nominally narrative system suddenly encouraging literal D&D 3.5 charop boards posters to make overpowered wizards who knows the actual game rules themselves and then demand a campaign somehow deal with that without instantly exploding

frankly the average mage poster would be better off just biting the bullet and playing an actual fucking capeshit game.

>>94145862
Awakening has clear rules and setting, so no.

>>94145871
>Awakening has clear rules and setting
>clear rules
Oh yeah? You mean the rule that a Mage can do whatever the fuck he wants and he is immune to everything, and oh did you manage to get the jump on him? Well, actually, no you didn’t because he already saw it coming and you attacked a hologram. That rule?

>>94145867
Maximizing Gnosis at character creation isn't necessary to have a viable character. Maximizing Arete is.
>>94145882
Mages are rather squishy and limited on how many effects they can have going at the same time, so that's on magesplaining idiots that don't play the game (because no one wants to play with them as they are utterly insufferable).

>>94145897
>awakening mages
>squishy
The infamous 'all starting characters have 9+ armor' splat?

>>94145906
Awakening mages aren't squishy but due to how Conditions work in CofD they can still get fucking walloped pretty easily. Especially since if you're cocky you can get dunked on by something inflicting them automatically.

>>94145906
>starting characters have 9+ armor
How?

>>94145987
there's completely mundane normalfag armors you can buy online that have 5+ armor even as a non wizard, are you really surprised wizards are tankier than the LAPD in the wizard wank game?

What spheres would I need for an Etherite Kamen Rider?

>>94145987
Every arcarnum has a 2dot spell that gives you armor = dots for the scene, or all day for 1 mana. At 3dots you can cast these on other people (it has it's own spell). To wit, there's a sidebar in one of the later books about ways for STs to try to deal with the fact that practically every group layers them as a matter of course.

>>94146004
>completely mundane normalfag armors you can buy online that have 5+ armor
Strictly speaking, dragon skin is only 4 ballistic armor, even if mechanically it may as well be 7+
You can't buy power armor online. In theory you could buy a bomb suit but I've never had PCs who would have wanted to. Where are you getting 5+ from?

>>94146100
>Where are you getting 5+ from?
regular riot gear is 5+ against ballistics, a riot shield is another -3 defense that also provides concealment against ranged attacks to double-dip effectiveness (you worsen their accuracy AND if they hit its more defense)
This is shit you can order off fucking amazon since protective gear isn't restricted the same way guns are (and even then getting a gun is not hard, and you can literally order dragon's breath shells online)
https://www.securityprousa.com/collections/riot-gear

Again; why are you surprised that WIZARDS in the WIZARD WANK game have more armor than the LAPD? I'm not a fan of Mage but pretending "harder to kill than a fucking mall cop" is a high bar is rusty hobo shanktown nonsense that only happens in V5 where tying your own shoelaces and paying rent are major hurdles. Armor is one of the least degenerate things mages can do in the system anyways, the reason nobody ever wants to deal with the headache of running a Mage campaign is not because they're bullet proof

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What's the best way of playing KotE? Using the Revised conversion from VtM STH? W20 did cover the Beast Courts, but did C20 cover the Hsien?

>>94146152
>regular riot gear is 5+ against ballistics
It's not, riot gear is 3/4
>a riot shield is another -3 defense that also provides concealment against ranged attacks to double-dip effectiveness (you worsen their accuracy AND if they hit its more defense)
Do you have brain damage? Are you an AI?
First of all, no, shields don't provide cover against AP ammo. They also only provide cover if you actually use them as cover, which rather evades the whole "irrevocable omnipresent 9+ armor lol" issue that we're talking about.
Secondly, defense isn't armor. You don't normally get defense against guns.
>This is shit you can order off fucking amazon since protective gear isn't restricted the same way guns are
Yes, that's why the PCs always buy dragon skin. Still not 5+

>Again; why are you surprised that WIZARDS in the WIZARD WANK game have more armor than the LAPD?
I literally never said anything even vaguely resembling that and I literally am the one who said that they all have 9+ armor are you totally fucking retarded m8 holy shit lol wtf.
>Armor is one of the least degenerate things mages can do in the system anyways
This is why I brought it up in the first place when anon called them squishy, because mage armor stacking was so ubiquitous and so baked into the system and the cultural perception of awakening mages that they quickly became infamous for NOT being squishy despite many splat-opinion panels painting it as if vamps/woofs/etc. thought they were.
>the reason nobody ever wants to deal with the headache of running a Mage campaign is not because they're bullet proof
This has nothing to do with the conversation at all since even the dumbest mage NPCs use mage armor.

>>94146017
That highly depends on how everything works. If you wanted to make a cyborg (like the originals), then Matter would be the only sphere you need, and it would be a permanent thing, and may come with permanent paradox. If you wanted it to be a Wonder that you then use, I would think that Matter, Forces and Correspondence and obviously Prime would be required.

Ask your ST about your concept, because I feel like having to use a fiddly, chunky belt to access your powers would be a pretty big investment for the character. Like, imagine actually having to haul around Build's driver and the bottles with you and spending the time before combat transforming. In the event that the belt is stolen or broken you wouldn't be able to use your magic at all. All things to consider asking your ST about.

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I'm undecided if the WoD: Hong Kong cover looks bloody awesome or like AI slop.

>>94146178
>What's the best way of playing KotE?
Kindred of the East: The Relentless Age on STV.

>did C20 cover the Hsien?
Yes. C20 is overwhelming BECAUSE they decided to cover every single Kith to ever exist at that point.

>>94146189
It was the 90s, so yeah, it’s awesome. Awesome to the max.

>>94146217
>C20 is overwhelming BECAUSE they decided to cover every single Kith to ever exist at that point.
meanwhile the rules for Enchanted are literally half-finished and non functional. What a terrible book.

>>94146217
Did they just give the Hsien Arts and Realms? Lo8MD's magic system was closer to Ascension than to Dreaming. The Hsien were changelings in that they replaced (braindead) mortals, but they were totally different than Kithain or Nunnehi. They were divine beings, so closer to the Fallen than any other Fae.

>>94146231
To be fair, the original The Enchanted is one of the worst books in the line and doesn't make a lot of sense. But the latter goes for a lot of CtD books.

>>94146235
>The Hsien were changelings in that they replaced (braindead) mortals
They were essentially lower spirits of the Celestial Bureaucracy doing the Sidhe’s version of the Changeling Way. Much like how Kuei-jin are just officially sanctioned (by the Dharma) Risen.

I'll say one good thing for Curseborne. Since it's vampires are The Hungry that means I can canonically call any Brujah equivalent The Hangry.

>>94146253
They are different from the Sidhe. The Sidhe pretty much cast out the human (maybe to Arcadia), while the Hsien take over a body at the moment of dead. The Kuei-Jin are pretty similar to Sin-Eaters (at least before OPP messed them up).

>>94146179
>First of all, no, shields don't provide cover against AP ammo
Cover and Concealment are two different mechanics in CofD. Cover only applies if you have total cover from an attacker which is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand; shields apply their Size rating as a concealment penalty to ranged attacks. A Large Shield has a size rating of 3. This has nothing to do with damage or armor piercing, it's a penalty to the attack roll itself, they're harder to shoot at because they're physically obscured.

Riot gear is in fact 3/5 rating, check page 270 of the Chronicles of Darkness core rulebook if you don't believe me. I have no idea why retards like you go online and say such confidently incorrect bullshit.

All Ventrue women are weak to anal. Without exception.

>>94146351
anal is necessary since their untamed vampire bush will attack you like Medusa's hair if you go near their pussy

Fun fact: The translator renamed Kindred of the East to "Children of the Lotus" which makes them sound like hippies.

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>>94146317
>Cover and Concealment are two different mechanics in CofD.
Shame nobody mentioned cofd then, isn't it retard?
These are the whole of the rules of ballistic shields. Feel free to tell me how their +defense (in close combat) gives you bonus armor. Go on, we'll wait

>I have no idea why retards like you go online and say such confidently incorrect bullshit.
So you are a bot, I see.

>>94146366
>Shame nobody mentioned cofd then
The original post is about Mage the Awakening......

>>94146378
He's that retard that thinks only 2e is called CofD, ignore him.

>>94146400
okay but even if that's the case, the original post was still about Awakening, which has a 2nd edition that he's totally ignoring

>>94146416
And you should ignore him. He's only here to troll.

>>94146416
>Awakening, which has a 2nd edition that he's totally ignoring
While Awakening2 is not as bad as Geist2, it doesn't really improve the game, so ignoring it is fine.

>>94146378
The entire chain of replies is unambiguously about nwod though.

>>94146400
Crawl back to the OPP discord

>>94146439
>While Awakening2 is not as bad as Geist2
From the perspective of playing it by itself sure, but walking back magelore contributed to the irrevocable destruction of the setting in cofd

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>>94143233

Nah, it's because Phil is an IRL occultist who believes in Magick unironically and I guess putting out that type of thoroughly shitty, anti-cosmic energy could be harmful to both oneself and the world around.

>>94146450
No one gives a shit about Mage lore, makes fuck all difference to anything that's not got Mage in the title

>>94146466
You tell yourself whatever you need to believe. If you're ever ready to confront how poor actually the reception for the contagion chronicle actually was nwod will still be there, untainted.

>>94146477
Why would I care about the Contagion Chronicle? I don't play crossovers.

>>94146450
VtR2 and WtF2 (with Shunned by the Moon) have a far better base than the 1st edition versions. And DtD and DtR are pretty good. I like some of the changes in CofD, but the overreliance on conditions gets annoying (especially in Geist2).
HtV and probably MtC are neutral, whereas even in CtL2 I really dislike some of the changes (making Kith unfettered from Seeming was a good choice, but I don't need a new ediiton for that).
In many cases, it seemed like they changed stuff for the sake of changing stuff.

>>94146484
I also like the concept of Dark Eras.

>>94146477
You've invested far too much of yourself into a game series. It's genuinely unhealthy to give a shit how a book was received in that manner.

>>94146364
It makes them sound Greek if anything since it makes them sound like the Lotus Eaters. Either that or the writer has been playing way too much Warframe.

>>94146493
>Warframe
>in 1999
But yeah, it reminded me of Homer's Lotophages.

>>94146477
I completely checked out of Contagion after just reading the basic summary of it. It got worse?

>>94146496
>Warframe
>1999
HE'S A PROPHET

>>94146497
It's not terrible. It's Intruders 2: Godmachine Boogaloo.
The way they put different sups together in factions is stupid, but otherwise it's a decent collection of settings.

>>94146484
Are you talking about the mechanics or the lore? Because the stories they tried to force in mortal/vamp were just awful and the background lore was the worst of the third party materials that everybody was already ignoring.
>VtR2
I still like to use VtR for neonate games and only switch to the VtR2 template for established characters, but it's been more than a minute since we played a neonate game.
>In many cases, it seemed like they changed stuff for the sake of changing stuff.
That's pretty much my opinion as well. Since MtA and especially CtL were well put together and coherent and great, these changes were all for the worse. Because VtR and WtF were sloppy messes, many of the changes were for the better and the ones which weren't you can just revert.

What they did to auspex is fucking unforgivable though.

>>94146497
It's fine. It's just Dark Eras in the modern day with some sort of big supernatural problem in them. The faction stuff has some decent mechanics but feels a little pointless overall as you don't really need that.

>>94146508
2e Auspex is one of the best updates IMO. All 1e powers are pretty flat but Auspex is especially dull and pretty disconnected from things. Like, aura reading has always been a basic bitch mortal thing in urban fantasy. It's not exactly impressive on a vampire. The newer question based stuff is way more engaging and actually related to the thing a vampire is about.

>>94146527
I refuse to believe that anyone actually has an opinion this dogshit
>actually related to the thing a vampire is about
>a vampire
Auspex is supposed to relate specifically to what being a mekhet is about, and that's history and mystery and hidden things. Aura reading was perfect, it completely colored how mekhet see the world. They should have expanded it, not randomly replaced it with 20-questions fiat dogshit that tells you fucking nothing in and of itself because it doesn't actually relate to a shared system or understanding.
It doesn't help that all the example flavor text for the 20 questions is disco-elysium tier.
>not one developer of the mekhet book in the credits for VtR2e
and boy how it shows

>>94146544
You're a sad little man.

>>94146527
>Like, aura reading has always been a basic bitch mortal thing in urban fantasy.
I'm 95% convinced that you're literally someone who whined to get it removed from 2e (i.e. someone on the team) when it was an established and universal part of NWoD that transcended splat.

>>94146508
Mostly the mechanics, but the lore isn't that problematic in my opinion. I like the changes to Invictus and the CM, as their 1e benefits were rather bland.
I'm glad we didn't end up with the Hill version of Changeling, but the change of developer led to material in DE1 that's incompatible to both editions. It would have been better to just write it for 1st edition like they did with the other games.

>>94146553
It's still a supernatural merit, retard

the last few generals have been fucking garbage because of the edition shit flinging, stop

>>94146570
We got one of those retards who thinks they've got an objective opinion and freaks out when anyone so much as politely states something contrary to it. Some people just don't have anything better to do than be obnoxious as much as they can manage.

>>94146570
>The average CofD fan be like

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>>94146570

>>94146178
>did C20 cover the Hsien?
yes, but they turned them more into actual asian fae instead of asian fallen running on ctd's engine, which i think is mostly a good change but depending on how much of wod's old oriental setting you want it might not be for you

>What's the best way of playing KotE
there is a fanmade kotE20, but it has lore changes to make them more global and important so same as above, but you could always use kotE20's rules with the old lore if you really really want you

>>94145729
What a peon, doesn't know the proper use case for a sporting rifle. The second barrel is there so you have an immediate follow-up shot in case the big game charges you

>>94144407
>>94144549
CtL taps into everyone's favorite pass time: indulging in your Victim Complex.

>>94146004
>>94146100
I presumed it was a magic only thing.

>>94147752
This feels like telling on yourself.

>>94147752
or liking alien abduction stories and wanting to play one, your brain's rotten by politics

>>94147373
And how do you represent that? Does the gun mechanically gives the user conditional celerity or do you just have two attacks in a single turn?

>>94146570
>>94146622
I really don't get what's his deal. Is this supposed to be funny?

>>94148049
Genuinely what the fuck is up with this format? Just why would you try to make a case for your ideology while dancing like a retard below your bullet points?

>>94148068
I'd say it kind of makes sense when one of the points is "expressing emotion".

>>94148083
>why are you so angry dude
I'm not angry, I just don't see the reason why those videos exist.

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>>94146217
>>94146672
After checking The Relentless Age, it seems like it's mostly changed lore and names with only a few rules, so I guess I'd just use the original rules with the revised update.
Some of it might still be useful.
I read in my old books again, had totally forgotten about the chibis in the KotE companion. KotE as a whole had some pretty good pictures.

>>94146378
>>94147752
>CtL taps into everyone's favorite pass time: indulging in your Victim Complex
As opposed to Vampires who are totally known for being reasonable, well-adjusted, and take the news they'll never set foot in the sun again very well...
Or werewolves, whose entire identity is literally playing victim on behalf of the planet against meanie head humans.
Etc etc
when you have a game system that's literally based on "personal horror" literally every splat is going to have some element of victimhood to it because despite decades of people playing the game as a vehicle for urban fantasy Wuxia fights and superhero antics, being a monster is supposed to suck. Even the ACTUAL Superhero game Deviant is literally an entire game about being a victim of mad scientists and acting out your personal revenge obsession against them.

Even Mage, the most unambiguous power fantasy in both oWoD and CofD, is essentially about having a victim complex on behalf of the entire human race and Wizards being the only people able to see the world for what it truly is and demand it change for their benefit. The Traditions spend all their fucking time whining and playing victim that the Technocracy invented penicillin and made it so eyeglasses help people with poor vision see better; in Awakening it's just nonstop gnostic seethe at the Exarchs for trapping you in the Fallen World

>>94148225
I have Relentless Age and it's a total overhaul. Disciplines are different, Demon Shintai is innate instead of a separate discipline, there's four Virtues based on Buddhism instead of Yin/Yang/Hun/Po, etc. Not sure all the changes are necessary, but you can drink breath starting at Dharma 4 so that's cool.

>>94146178
All the Gallain are in C20, but the rules are extremely light. If you want Hsien go with Realm of Gods and Dreams in STV, be warned though that it's basically a Changeling remake and a new core book, but still worth mining for ideas.

>>94146570
He looks very Christian.

>>94148897
Yet he advocates for very unchristian things.
Might be a prottie.

>>94148920
*recoils Lasombraly*

Besides the shadow cannot be seen in mirrors thing, what makes the lasombra different from the ventrue? To me they are one of those weird periphery clans I don't get even though they're a major player in the sabbat

>>94149065
It's about vibe. You get it or you don't.

>>94149065
>Less focus on lineage and the appearance of nobility, more focus on forceful and domineering personalities and strength of character. Ventrue construct an elaborate pseudo-feudal system to explain why they are superior and you should obey them, Lasombra acquire power and unashamedly use that power to force the less powerful to obey them without any pretence.
>Typically associated with the Sabbat rather than the Camarilla, which gives most Lasombra a vastly different modus operandi. On a nightly basis, this typically means giving less of a shit about the Masquerade and much less humane treatment of humanity.
>Cool shadow-based superpower, which puts them in the same category as Tzimisce for "clan which is played almost exclusively for its unique discipline." When it comes to the Lasombra, people don't really care any aspect of the clan other than its ability to use Obtenebration.

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What if he won?

>>94149065
You're not wrong in that the Lasombra can often feel derivative of the Ventrue. >>94149140 has some good points, especially the unfortunate truth that most people are just playing them for the discipline.

But I think there is a distinction you can draw. Ventrue have always pursued rulership. They want to be on top of a hierarchy, they are elite but also cooperative with each other because they understand even the greatest men can't do everything themselves. Even the most power hungry doesn't give a fuck Ventrue likes to have a veneer of respectability and poise, so that they can even control what is said about them in private by giving their enemies less ammunition.

On the other hand, the whole "ruler" thing is a relatively recent development for the Lasombra. Originally, their big move in the Jyhad was backing the Sea Peoples and almost killing civilization in the crib. They didn't embrace social power fully until the early medieval, which is where their special enmity with the Ventrue began. Nowadays a lot of them have abandoned the aristocratic or pseudo-aristocratic set-up and reverted to bold faced savagery and power within the Sabbat. All Lasombra care far more about being the best (be that the super genius manipulator ideal or the biggest fuck you blood-guzzling tyrant is personal preference) than being respected as some sort of noble lord.

Another big difference is that Ventrue are largely secular and pragmatic whereas Lasombra are generally more mystic. A Ventrue occultist will generally view even the most esoteric supernatural phenomenon through a lens of "How can this benefit or threaten me? And "How can I control or destroy it?". Whereas the Lasombra produce more genuine mystics to the point they even have their own ritual-only blood magic.

>>94147862
politics?

>>94149357
>When a Euthanaoi overdoses on the kool-aid
On a more serious note, his goal aligns exactly with the Ecstatics want. Maybe Voormas shouldn’t have been such a little bitch and join another Tradition?

>>94149357
Reality as we know collapses because of nothing can die or decay most of the processes that make living possible stop. In other words, he kills everyone even if he does that on a very round about way.>>94149397
>especially the unfortunate truth that most people are just playing them for the discipline
Because that's the only real differential they have amongst the clans.

>>94149571
Something something, you don't choose what you believe.

For nWoD/CofD, are there any sites that let you build antagonists? Or antagonist sheets if there aren't generator sites?

>>94149640
I think Mr. Gone's site has some simplified sheets for NPCs iirc, not sure of the details though. Or you could use regular sheets, it's not exactly rocket science to make a character in nWoD...?

>>94149640
I believe Mr.Gone has sheets for Horrors, Cryptids/Cryptoflora and other miscellaneous antagonists.

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>>94149703
>>94149704
Much appreciated

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>>94149397
>especially the unfortunate truth that most people are just playing them for the discipline.
The people who say dumb shit like this have always, always, always made me roll my fucking eyes and are basically outing themselves as morons who are not actually interested in this tabletop roleplaying game as an actual RPG.
>Ugh, you just picked that character because you thought the mechanics would be fun to play!
.....yeah. That's how a game works. That's how EVERY game works. Somebody doesn't choose to be a Goalie if they don't want to block the goal and get to use their hands. You play a Rockerboy in Cyberpunk if you don't want to blare loud music and be a menace to society. You don't play a fucking Wizard in D&D if you don't want to have a spellbook and collect spells. This retarded, fart- sniffing purity testing is exclusive to Vampire the Masquerade and I have to assume is inherited from nordic LARP shit where clan choice is like hipsters picking craft beer and SoundCloud rappers where it's not about whether it's good/fun/you enjoy it but whether you can get your peers to fellate you for your good taste.

No other splat is like this, in any World of Darkness gameline. No fucking faggot would ever seriously scoff and say "UGH, YOU JOINED THE CHILDREN OF GAIA JUST BECAUSE YOU WANTED UNICORN AS YOUR TOTEM", there's no scolding Mages for joining the Order of Hermes because they want to dress like gandalf and throw fireballs. Nobody says "wow, what a poser, you joined the Autumn Court because you want to scare people to death and shoot lightning!" that's the whole fucking point you braindead simpleton this is a fucking TTRPG do you think people are just supposed to make characters they don't think they'll have fun playing? If you don't care about mechanics whatsoever go suck cocks at a gloryhole wearing plastic Halloween fangs and leave the rest of us an actual goddamn game.

>>94149357
What a cringe take, how didn't this little cumdump get bullied to death?

>>94149357
All those centuries of being alive and avoiding death and the guy STILL couldn’t achieve Ascension? Loser.

>>94140635
How long does the average Tremere stay a fledgling? I know it differs for each clan, like Ventrue put their childer through vampire college for like 10 years while Lasombra basically throw their childer straight into the deep end first thing.

>>94150021
NTA, but if this isn't a troll, m8, I think you've got a few screws loose in the brain.

If I decide to play a Lasombra, I'm more than likely playing it because I want shadow powers, not because I want to be associated with the Church or whatever it is Lasombra do.

Versus, if I decide to play a Ventrue, it's not because I want to have Domination, it's because I want to play a blue blood. If I play a Malkavian, it's not because of Dementation (though that does determine that I play antitribu), it's because I'm edgy and want to play a mentally ill character. If I play a Verbena, it's because I want to play a pagan or witch, not because of the Life sphere. If I play CoG, it's because I want to be a hippie pacifist, not because... okay imma be honest I don't know what powers CoGs get.

>>94150021
You sound mad. Did someone call you out for playing the same Vicissitude bot for the third time in a row?

You're strawmanning to a ludicrous degree, even giving a quote I didn't say. There's nothing wrong with considering the mechanics of a certain clan/etc when making a character. The issue is when you get people who don't care about any other facet of the clan they picked beyond the discipline. Mr. Shadow the Shadow Man who embraces the Shadow and lives in the Shadow and who acts like Jackie from The Darkness but without any of the things that made him compelling is cancer to play with.

By all means, pick a clan with a unique discipline, make that their highest dot discipline if you want as well. But don't forget to give them an actual character. That's what people dislike, and why these clans develop a stigma. People who get so caught up in a single power they forget to do anything else at the table.

>>94150021
The point that he is making is that some people look at the Lasombra, who are predatory socialites and antagonistic power-hungry social Darwinists who typically put their own accumulation of power above all other things and who have three different disciplines, and all they see is the shiny special Obtenebration discipline and discard everything else because they're not interested in it. In the hands of such people, their personality becomes "I've got shadow tentacles" and that's it.

Bigger problem for the Tzimisce, as this mindset infected the actual writers and we ended up with a whole heap of Tzimisce characters who have no personality aside from their fleshwarping superpower, neglecting their Slavic origins and aristocratic demeanour and their covetous nature and their bond to the land. After all, it's way more funny to make the same "I turn my enemies into furniture" joke over and over again.

I'd say the same thing if people often played the Hermetics solely because they want to specialise in Forces but have no interest in the Hermetic hierarchy, or if people often played Autumn courtiers in CtL for the contracts but didn't actually obey the philosophy of the Autumn Court. This doesn't happen that often though.

>>94150210
>If I play CoG, it's because I want to be a hippie pacifist, not because... okay imma be honest I don't know what powers CoGs get.
Healing gifts, social gifts, conflict de-escalation gifts, with some druidic gifts tied to nature too.
The big outlier is Halo of the Sun at Rank 5, one of the best combat gifts available and the best anti-vampire tech available to werewolves by a country mile.

>>94146570
>when you accidently use presence 1 on a guy

>>94150210
>if I decide to play a Ventrue, it's not because I want to have Domination, it's because I want to play a blue blood.
If Ventrue were the only clan in the entire game to get Domination you probably would. And that's fine. The same way somebody wanting Foresight as their Edge will pick Visionary in Hunter.

"You picked Moros just because you wanted to be a necromancer!" or "You picked Namaru/Devils because you wanted Lore of Radiance!" is not something anyone would ever seriously say or be mad about in Awakening or Demon. You only see this garbage in Vampire because people pretend Clans are a fashion statement and not the equivalent of choosing your House/Class/Tribe/Path/Seeming/Virtue/whatever, and a specific pretentious segment of the community think "gameplay" is a dirty word. Again, this is purely a Vampire problem because the most insufferable aspects of LARP culture have been backported to the tabletop. No other gameline is like this, even amongst the dozens of options in oWoD/NWOD/COFD/X5/WHATEVER.

>>94150258
You get your clan from being bitten by somebody, the idea every member of a clan must obey the stereotypical culture is completely retarded when it's literaly just a question of which mosquito you got bit by. Not to mention half the clans people piss and moan about not respecting the "culture" of are goddamn Sabbat, AKA the faggots who literaly mass-embrace and leave people to fend for themselves in a ditch. If your Sire didn't stick around and brainwash you into liking the same shit he does and all you're left with is the Curse and Disciplines it's not a surprise that fledglings would focus more on those as their identity rather than millennia of metaplot and jyhad politics they have absolutely no way of knowing about.

>>94150384
Yeah, pretending people don't pick Tremere just for thaumaturgy is stupid. I'm actually playing an Auspex-based Tremere right now so I'm kinda breaking that rule, but still.

>>94150384
>"You picked Moros just because you wanted to be a necromancer!" or "You picked Namaru/Devils because you wanted Lore of Radiance!" is not something anyone would ever seriously say or be mad about in Awakening or Demon.
People would if people actually did that, but they don't because those are more niche games that people play more seriously, whereas Vampire the Masquerade is a more popular game, which draws more players, including those with a surface level attraction to superpowers rather than the entirety of a faction.
>You only see this garbage in Vampire because people pretend Clans are a fashion statement and not the equivalent of choosing your House/Class/Tribe/Path/Seeming/Virtue/whatever
Yes, but not in the way you think. Some players do see clans as little more than a fashion statement, a bundle of fun superpowers for their self-insert to wield rather than a meaningful faction and archetype that they should explore with their character. These factions are more than just packages of superpowers and in most games, they're treated like such. Just not VtM, which has drawn a more casual audience more interested in the power fantasy than roleplaying.
>>94150420
Even shovelheads are subjected to indoctrination by the Sabbat. It's very rare for vampires to take a massive risk and devote resources to Embracing someone, only to abandon them to fend for themselves and potentially bite them in the ass in a big way in the future. And in the cases where that does happen, there's an option for that - it's called Caitiff.

>>94150457
Yeah, hell even IN-UNIVERSE Tremere became a vampire clan just for Thaumaturgy (and to live forever).

>>94150498
desu i don't need to go hard on thaumaturgy to be unique because nobody else in my coterie has auspex or dominate either lol.

>>94150492
>It's very rare for vampires to take a massive risk and devote resources to Embracing someone
In the Camarilla, sure, except all the clans who purposefully engage in spite embraces where they literally attack somebody and leave them to fend for themselves because they think it's funny (including Gangrel, who despite this being a clan tradition get no punishment from the cammies for doing it lmao)
In the Sabbat mass-embraces happn all the time and the Sabbat care so little about the Masquerade it's a wonder it even exists.

>>94150516
>nobody else in my coterie has auspex or dominate either
Dios mio.

>>94150492
Your Clan is purely determined by your Sire. There's some clans who try to maintain strict hegemony over all members but even they're not completely successful, "Clan Culture" is dramatically overrated especially when there's potential Sires across the Camarilla, Anarchs, and Sabbat who all might have the same Clan. Not every clan is the Tremere, and the Tremere LITERALLY see their clan as a "bundle of superpowers" and are unironically wizards who became vampires specifically FOR the supernatural powers it would provide them lol.

>>94150529
Actually scratch that, our malk probably has at least a dot in auspex, but i know the player is focusing on dementation so they won't be anywhere near my level.

>>94150552
>e Tremere LITERALLY see their clan as a "bundle of superpowers"
Immensely based.

>>94150520
It's the World of Darkness, it's a gonzo hellscape dystopia where suffering and violence is significantly more common than it is in our world. The shit Sabbat get up to is swept under the rug as common gang warfare, due to a combination of vampires that manipulate the powers that be and the desensitisation of the masses.
>But that's dumb and bad.
Vampire the Requiem, V5 and soon Curseborne are all viable options for you if you want a more serious and realistic vampire game.

>>94150520
I've said it before and I'll say it again, people seriously underestimate the power of "your lying eyes". There's plenty of people who could see a Sabbat vamp go full near dark on someone and would rationalize it away. Those that don't won't be believed by even their friends and family. The Masquerade isn't about stopping every single breach, but about preventing enough breaches that the general pop doesn't start questioning things. Plus, the Sabbat have a primitive version of the Masquerade called the Silence of the Blood.

Any remaining issues with the Masquerade are fairly easily solved by vampires (mostly Ventrue and other highfalutin Camarilla type vamps) having the right pawns in media and government to keep particularly bad events hush-hush. It's more a problem in later editions which for some reason tried to downplay the influence vampires have in mortal institutions.

>>94150648
>It's more a problem in later editions which for some reason tried to downplay the influence vampires have in mortal institutions.
vampires being denied a loan from the bank and struggling to pay rent is clearly the real Personal Horror the World of Darkness was meant to evoke

>>94150659
Not just Vampire. Working in a bike repair shop in Book of Hungry Names was truly traumatizing.

What's an underused mental affliction for a malkavian?

>>94150968
Narcissism

>>94150968
Gender dysphoria

>>94150968
Not using modern diagnoses at all; using specific taboos, geases, fixations, etc. instead

>>94144429
Hedgefag is a top? I can't fap to that.

>>94145451
There's one Imbued who's in a wheelchair because he was like "vampires are people too!" and then the vampire frenzied and like, ripped off part of his legs or broke his spine, and another one who spent years as a slave to a demon or a vampire and explicitly ate shit and sucked black cocks on command.

>>94146359
Do Ventrue wax the assholes of all of the females before embracing them or . . . ?

>>94150021
I actually want to play a Wayward not because I like any of their powers - they're all kind of meh, really - but because I genuinely want to be able to just not be a little pissbaby victim and go around blowing shit up to kill vampires.

>>94151134
Like you said, Waywards aren't necessarily any better at that. You can play a crazy guy of any type. Waywards just turn everyone crazy. Frankly, they're better as NPCs for that reason. Their powers are about taking choice away from other players.

Malkavian Idea: derangement of "Terminally Gay". Refuse to elaborate, except through action.

>>94151086
that's dark age ravnos not malkavian and before you ask malkavians had to use modern derangments that just been renamed in the same books

>>94151344
Yeah, but that's fucking lame. Do supernatural insanity.

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>>94151344
>that's dark age ravnos
This has reminded me of something I discovered when researching the DA Ravnos, the "general compulsion of any kind; good or bad" flaw is V20DA exclusive. Previous Dark Ages books retain the regular Ravnos flaw. This means that a the very end of VtM's lifecycle, considering that 20th was very much the end when they were writing it, they decided to change the Ravnos' dark age flaw with ZERO explaination given. The change, or even the flaw possibly being morally "good", is never again mentioned in any of the following books. I even looked in the DA books that weren't translated into english; still never mentioned despite the Ravnos being a remarkably important part of those last books. The whole situation leaves me incredibly confused, especially since throughout the DA texts there's a heavily emphasis on how Ravnos are specifically committers of Sin, and the different families/Jati are all different ways that they've come to deal with that. For example, the Sybarites fully embrace it and the Path of Paradox, while the Alexandrites reject it and instead are follows of the Path of Chivalry. Now, I do actually like the change to a more general compulsion as I feel it edges closer to the "faerie bane" interpretation of the Ravnos curse that I have, but still, it's quite confusing.

>>94151162
Yeah, but even I'd look askance at an Innocent who has dots in explosives and is willing to use them.

>Their powers are about taking choice away from other players.

That's really only true of Enrage, and even that's possible to resist. And even if they fail the roll . . . they just attack for a handful of rounds; it doesn't turn them into Heath Ledger's Joker permanently and irrevocably. Impart doesn't prompt any particular action or behavioural modification, and Forewarn, Reap, and Spiral don't affect other player characters in the way you're talking about.

>>94140635
in V5, is there even a single reason to take the Business Establishment haven merit instead of just taking 2 dots in resources?

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>>94151489
>while the Alexandrites reject it and instead are follows of the Path of Chivalry.
you are confusing the Alexandrites and the Phaedymites the later are also shown in the varrios dark age books to have ravnos flaws like having to uphold chivalry regardless of situation and keep oaths they swear which is what makes them so trusted couriers and one of them in the fiction novels had the flaw that he would frenzy if he couldn't protect his or his friends honor. however sadly they never got a player write up and are i think they are completely ommited by the edition, dav20, that would make them playable- the closest we get is in Libellus Sanguinis where the ravnos flaw can be seperated into the seven deadly sin and the founder of the line says their sin is wrath, which would fit with the guy from the novels (i can't remember his name for the life of me, sorry about that) but not really with the rest of the Phaedymite we get in the dark age books

so basicly ravnos have bloodlines that don't work like normal ravnos, but never been given a write up to make them playable despite showing up in the game books meanwhile gangrel have a bloodline the anda who in some books are just normal gangrel (same disciplines and they only have a unqiue flaw in some books in some they are really just gangrel) but are still treated like a bloodline even when that write up is just "yeah more gangrel, but they are also huns"

>this means that a the very end of VtM's lifecycle, considering that 20th was very much the end when they were writing it, they decided to change the Ravnos' dark age flaw with ZERO explaination given.
dav20 sadly has quite a few stupid changes that are never explained, destroy quite a bit of world building (the entire giovanni experiment being the big one i think but it also messes with some established domain lore) and go against the spirit of being a anniversary editions (not that it's alone with that, right m20?)

Considering it's spooky month, I was looking at old vampire myths. Vampires were never really undead in folklore, they fully returned to magical life in their graves. What are some ways Cainites can "steal" aspects of living from humans?
>>94151489
They were never satisfied with the Ravnos. That's it. They felt any explanation wasn't necessary because what existed wasn't worth preserving.

>>94151628
>They were never satisfied with the Ravnos.

True, I think they felt this way about a lot of the independent clans they threw together following the Ethnicity + RPG Class formula, the Ravnos simply being the worst one in their eyes.

>>94148225
How do i draw like this?
Whats the name of this style?

>>94151628
>What are some ways Cainites can "steal" aspects of living from humans?
there is a 5th level necromantic power that needs alot of blood (so higher gen vampires pretty much need to use human sacrifice) that makes the cainite mortal for a day

they still get bashing, i think it was, damage from the sun and they lose most disciplines not called fortitude and auspex, but are 100% alive, but still vampiric, they still soak like vampires, they can still blood buff and they still have the bite, kiss and everything

planning on using that to try and make a dhampir in my game

>>94151613
>you are confusing the Alexandrites and the Phaedymites
Ah, yeah you're right. It's been a while since I last looked into this to be honest
> to have ravnos flaws like having to uphold chivalry regardless of situation and keep oaths they swear which is what makes them so trusted couriers and one of them in the fiction novels had the flaw that he would frenzy if he couldn't protect his or his friends honor.
>however sadly they never got a player write up and are i think they are completely ommited by the edition, dav20, that would make them playable
Oh, you know when you put it like that it makes a bit of sense. Rather than split up the Ravnos into different bloodlines, they just changed the core flaw so that you could properly play any of those Jati with different compulsions. Or at least, that's AN explanation I can think of.
>>94151628
>They were never satisfied with the Ravnos. That's it.
Considering the direction they took in V5 and the various changes to the clan throughout the editions, I'm inclined to agree with you. I mean hell, I'm also not satisfied with how they are, which is why I've taken my own direction with them.

>>94151654
Cool
I was just thinking up some kind of Bahari ritual: you vivisect a fertile woman, ghoul her by bleeding onto her exposed womb, and eat it after a ritual to bless her, to become fertile again for one night. Then you enter torpor within a ghouled tree for the gestation. I suppose the child would have to be a dhampir, or at least a Revenant.

>>94151613
>ravnos_sins
replying to myself here but one could probably do something fun with that and demons: devil's due also seperates demons along the line of the seven deadly sins instead of houses and gives them abilities related to said sins including a arcana that vampiries can be granted (and in fact need to be granted to power demonic powers without constant help from said demon) that allows them to feed on the sin of the demon's choice and (the romani) ravnos (according to the same book i got the picture from) already want to prove that everyone is just like them by pulling them down to their level

so you could for example have a wrath ravnos who is pretty much a hate plague and uses both demonic powers and illusions to cause violent conflict where ever he goes

also Phaedymites' sin should be pride not wrath but oh well

Victor G A V, you here?

Not sure if this matters to anyone else these days, but I've accidentally stumbled upon an official baseline for how Humanity affects waking time for vampires

Clanbook Lasombra (Revised) states that vampires with the highest humanity get an average (over a year) of 12 waking hours a night, while most vampires of the Sabbat get substantially less, down to as little as little as 8 or 9 hours,

>>94151867
How many hours for humanity 5?
Asking for a friend.

>>94151799
Man the sheer potential of the Ravnos fills me with love, that's a fantastic concept for some infernalist romanii ravnos

>>94151867
I used to think it's generally from dusk till dawn with some variation due to humanity or other things like merits/flaws, because dusk and dawn are a period of time, not a single moment. So it's more wake time during winter and less during summer. Was I wrong?

>>94151134
Having played mummy with heggie, they are undoubtedly a bottom

>>94150980
>>94151079
>>94151086
How would vampires of the past be classified? If a malk in the 18th century's affliction was ghosts in the blood would they actually have ghosts? Or would it just be schizophrenia throughout the ages with different names?

Is 5v a good entry point for learning about the setting if I know nothing about vampire the masquerade? Or if not what book would be the best? There seems to be so much stuff it's a bit intimidating

>>94152168
I would recommend reading the V20 core book. It's a compilation edition, so it's main goal was to consolidate everything into one edition

>>94152152
Wasn’t “ghosts in the blood” already just a different name for schizophrenia? Just of the wraithly apparitions hallucination variety?

>>94151654
Got a source for this? I think it would be perfect for an antagonist of mine to offer one of my players struggling with unlife as a devil's bargain.

>>94151905
>>94152058

Well, that's one of the infuriating things about this mechanic, it seems to never have been properly elaborated, only a few hints here and there about its existence.

This is the first instance where I find something more concrete about it, and it's only about the highest and lowest humanities.

But the text itself points out that 12 is an *average* over a year, so yes, winter and summer nighttime hours do factor into it, apparently.

It's just that this is the first correlation we have, where, apparently, humanity 10(?) equals ~the entire night and humanity 1 means you wake 4 hours after sundown, apparently. Or at least 4 hours after the guy with humanity 10(?) does.

>>94152199
v20 corebook pg 170-171
Necromancy: Corpse in the Monster path 5 "Gift of Life"

>>94148553
Pretty ironic to say this when CtL with expansions is the most 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' splat in any version of WoD, where every part of who you are and what you do is a product of your own efforts.

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>>94152122
I don't have a "faith in humanity" or "hope restored" reaction image, so this will have to do. Thank you, anon. Thank you.

>>94152168
If you want to learn about the setting you would be better off going through the supplements because they flesh things out the most.
As for playing the actual game either use V20, because it's the least janky ruleset out of WoD, or use VtR 2e with the translation guides, because the end result plays a lot smoother.

>>94151134
>There's one Imbued who's in a wheelchair because he was like "vampires are people too!" and then the vampire frenzied
And you expect me or anyone else to have sympathy for at least two incredibly retarded people sticking their metaphorical dick inside a waffle iron? Why?

>>94152302
Except for the kith and seeming, possibly the two biggest parts of a changeling's identity, which are something inflicted on them by their keeper.
Also, there's been plenty of people in this general who want to abandon both the bootstraps side of CtL and the victim complex side of CtL. It's not uncommon to hear statements like:
>But I want to play a changeling who had a good time during their durance and has no hard feelings against their keeper and was released without any trauma or suffering and is still on good terms with their keeper.
Plus, the significant number of people who are upset by the concept of durances and keepers being important to the game at all and just want to play their urban fantasy fairy people without worrying about the True Fae.

In fact, the intended gameplay of playing a changeling who pulls themselves up by their bootstraps after escaping from their keeper seems to be the least popular interpretation of CtL in this general.

What hasn't happened in the games you don't have recently, /tg/?

>>94152192
I think, like hysteria, ghosts in the blood was a catch-all term for anything that ails 'ya

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>>94152484
>It's not uncommon to hear statements like:
>But I want to play a changeling who had a good time during their durance and has no hard feelings against their keeper and was released without any trauma or suffering and is still on good terms with their keeper.
>Plus, the significant number of people who are upset by the concept of durances and keepers being important to the game at all and just want to play their urban fantasy fairy people without worrying about the True Fae.
> the least popular interpretation of CtL in this general
None of this is real

>>94152544
Then you haven't been around for long enough to witness any significant CtL discourse and people shitting themselves over how much they hate durances and True Fae and wish CtL didn't have them.

>>94152553
No, I've been around plenty long. Nothing of what you just said is real.

>>94152302
>CtL
>pull yourself up by your bootstraps

Dude, these niggas are fueled by dickery and bullshitery. Their least bullshit seaming can just make coffee into the purest black tar heroin, knead dough into C4, and bake bricks of gold for 1 point of Glamour.

>>94152544
I know you probably won't believe me but sometimes people don't want a chronicle centered around the True Fae. Neural and nice durances are a useful addition to the setting.

If I were to create Alex Mercer in Deviant, would that be a Cyborg, Mutant, or Coactive?

>>94152592
That's not what I'm denying. What I am denying is idea that the predominant preference in this general is for CtL sans True Fae conflict. I've seen alot of people talk on here about CtL, and I've talked with alot of people on here about CtL, and that has only ever been a small minority. The vast majority of CtL discussion I have witness and been a part of here was about a CtL as it was written.

>>94152484
>Except for the kith and seeming, possibly the two biggest parts of a changeling's identity, which are something inflicted on them by their keeper.
That's completely wrong. Your kith and seeming are products of how you adapt to the durance, it's entirely a reflection of your human spirit. Your keeper can only put you in situations, they can't control how you adapt. Have you even read the entry for seeming?
Also, though you can't generally change the kith/seeming written on your sheet, changelings are totally capable of making changes to their mein as they acquire more power. Everyone with even just a mantle is different to what they were without it.
>It's not uncommon to hear statements like:
>>But I want to play a changeling who had a good time during their durance and has no hard feelings against their keeper and was released without any trauma or suffering
That's completely and 100% in line with the pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps nature of CtL. What the fuck are you even trying to say? Do you have a concussion?
Max is the fucking high king of summer. That is canonzied as one of the most legitimate origins for changelings and they talk about it in the core book. Again, it has literally no conflict with pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and earning every inch of your power. What the fuck are you talking about?
>still on good terms with their keeper.
Nobody has ever said this about player characters unless you're for some reason playing an actual loyalist (which again, you totally can and they're brought up in the core book you fucking faggot). What's more common are changelings that were shut out of their durance and resent their keeper for essentially barring them from arcadia, which is a perfectly normal structure for stories about faerie places.

You are completely blinded by your revionist headcanon about victim complexes and have no idea what you're talking about.

>>94152562
Yes, and?
>Their least bullshit seaming
Crafting is generally considered one of the strongest builds in CtL lol.
>bake bricks of gold for 1 point of Glamour.
Isn't it like 3-5? Unless it's a one scene illusion.

>>94152648
CtL as it was written has the option for true fae not playing any active part in your chronicle anyway.

>>94152595
Neither, he's a Chimeric.

>>94152592
>sometimes people don't want a chronicle centered around the True Fae
That's fine.
>Neutral and nice durances are a useful addition to the setting.
Only if you're willing to bend the setting around them, otherwise they make little sense unless you're willing to play a loyalist.

>>94152657
Why are you so upset?

>>94152689
He's a troll trying to elicit a reaction in others to heighten the tone of the conversation until it's just shit flinging. They've been doing it all thread.

>>94152697
The jackass who tried to claim that basically all CtL fans in this general want to play a game where they can just be changeling superheroes with zero interactions with the True Fae is the fucking troll

>>94152484
>But I want to play a changeling who had a good time during their durance and has no hard feelings against their keeper and was released without any trauma or suffering and is still on good terms with their keeper.
That has always been an option. But such a person shifts from the issues of "the keeper is coming for you" to "constantly has to allay or avoid suspicion of being a Loyalist/Freebooter."

>>94152675
>unless you're willing to play a loyalist.
Or a Playmate.

>>94152708
But it's true, whenever CtL becomes the primary subject (which isn't often these days) there's always someone who bitches about the prominence of the True Fae and always someone who wants to play an outlier who had a happy durance and a good relationship with their keeper. Changeling superheroes is incorrect though. People are more interested in changeling slice-of-life.
>>94152714
And explain why they give a shit about freeholds or wish to be a part of one at all, when freeholds exist so that changelings can collectively resist their keepers.

>>94152708
Ignore them too then. Stop taking bait and making the whole thread shit.

>>94152476
What? The point is that the Imbued ARE vulnerable like normies and that what >>94145451
is incorrect on that specific point.

>>94152728
You're the one posting bait in the first place

>>94152727
1/10 get better material

>>94152727
Whenever one game becomes the primary subject, there's always someone who dislikes the core conceit of that game who speaks out. There's always someone who comments on how the Masquerade should be broken a million times by now in VtM, there's always someone who comments on how striges are retarded and ruin the mood of VtR and there's always someone who laughs at WtA. The last one's okay though, WtA is retarded.

>>94152779
Stirges have literally nothing to do with VtR though
>There's always someone who comments on how the Masquerade should be broken a million times by now in VtM
It is tho like half the planet are cities where they don't have the masquerade.

>>94152661
>Yes, and?
They don't really invoke the feel you were talking about when most changelings have at least 1 money printing power on top of the template.

>>94145684
This is a idea I see brought up in a lot in Mage discussions, and I know the traditions want to make magic so sensual (and presumably useable by normal ppl like technology is) but does that also mean they want to get rid of electricity, plumbing, ect? I always thought the Void engineers and the ritual adepts would object to that sort of ludditism and I was under the impression most of the other traditionist have some techno magic subfaction from their splat books back in revised.

>>94152731
There was another hunter who got fully blood bound to a vampire elder with social powers, and how does he get out of that pickle? He activates second sight and becomes immune to illusion and mind control killing the elder Toreador.
The point that I'm making is how these guys are a very poorly thought out template that feels very inconsistent at best and bullshit at worst without being interesting enough to roll with it.

>>94152847
If not the intent, than that was the vibe from WW who probably weren’t thinking about it too hard.

>>94152888
You talk about the imbued as if they're the only hunters in oWoD. Have you forgotten about Hunters Hunted? Or are you deliberately ignoring them?

I think the problem with Changelings is that there is a portion of the playerbase who think it would really cool to play Fairies in the modern day, but both CtD and CtL demand some sort of additional narrative burden to them.

>>94152199
Oh that is PERFECT. Thank you anon!

>>94152896
This is World of Darkness general not Pathfinder, every splat has some sort of additional narrative burden

>>94152908
meant for >>94152264

>>94152888
>>94152731
To be fair the imbued lack a passive protections and most of their powers won't work against mortals. So yeah they have their weaknesses.

>>94152841
>They don't really invoke the feel you were talking about when most changelings have at least 1 money printing power on top of the template.
What the fuck does that have to do with the feel I was talking about?

>>94152894
Leopold and company are fine. I just have a hate boner against the exalted knock offs because I don't see a reason to play or use them outside nostalgia.

>>94152928
>What the fuck does that have to do with the feel I was talking about?
The feeling I'm picturing losses a lot of its effectiveness when the shitty situation can be solved in less than 5 minutes. Afterall what's holding the changeling up?

Odds are we pictured completely different things and are bickering over nothing, which is fun.

>>94152888
I'm not arguing about them being poorly thought out, anon - but the Imbued are not what DaveB actually imagines Mages to be and they're really fucking weak.

>>94152917
That they have their weaknesses is what I am saying.

>>94153008
DaveB and Satyros get in a wizard duel who wins

>>94153019
The Nephandi.

>>94153037
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wwaptVzqk

Tremere women. Not even once.

>>94152998
>Odds are we pictured completely different things
You made up something completely unrelated to anything that was said, sure.
>are bickering over nothing
We're bickering over you being a faggot for the sake of being a faggot
>which is fun.
I assume you mean this unironically since it's obviously the outcome you were looking for.

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>>94152484
>>But I want to play a changeling who had a good time during their durance and has no hard feelings against their keeper and was released without any trauma or suffering and is still on good terms with their keeper.
for the record this has always been an option. there are, in fact, entire kiths based around this concept and explicitly suggesting they receive shitty treatment from other changelings and are essentially accused of being Uncle Toms at best and secret Loyalists or Privateers at worst. The same way both Ottoman Janissaries who liiterally had enough power and influence to coup sultans and Roman galley slaves literally chained to their seat barefoot were both technically "slaves", there's an enormous gulf in their experience.
This isn't a bug, it's a feature. a fucking Ogre Gristlegrinder whose job was to literally bake children's bones into bread to feed his Giant master who lived at the top of a castle on a beanstalk probably WILL seethe and mald and rage and piss himself in anger if he runs into a Riddleseeker who didn't even leave Arcadia voluntarily, but who was kicked out by his Keeper to go gather new material.

This is really not any diffferent from a Nosferatu Cleopatra pissing blood in fury when he realizes there's prettyboy and pretty girl Toreadors who were voluntarily embraced to maintain their beauty forever by a sire grooming them as lover slash protege. "IT'S NOT FAIR! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME!" lol motherfucker who ever lied and told you the World of Darkness was *fair*?

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>>94153444
>so uh, what was your job in Arcadia?
>I fed orphans into the orphan-grinding machine every day for what felt like a thousand years. I had to taste them myself and ensure there was enough gristle in it or I'd be beaten and have to restart the entire process with fresh orphans.
>Wow, sucks to be you. I got to be a giant fire breathing dragon who slept on an actual mountain made of gold. Wanna see my wings? They're super sick.
these two people will not have the same feelings regarding their durance. how you even got to arcadia in the first place varies, somebody who was kidnapped as a child lost in the woods will feel different than someone who was terminally ill and their Keeper promised a cure if only they were willing to swear fealty. changeling coteries are called "motleys" for a reason, they're a mixed bag almost by definition. All that you have in common with one another is being taken to Arcadia and being swapped with a Fetch. The same way Vampires are all Embraced by a Sire and Undead no matter what.

Even how you left Arcadia isn't guaranteed. Someone who cut their regenerating troll arms off to flee in the dead of night will not feel the same as someone who won a duel or tournament and demanded their freedom as a prize, and neither will feel the same as a dude who sealed a Contract for a temporary oath of service to begin with. I encourage everyone making dumb arguments to actually read the game they're inventing imaginary scenarios to get mad about.