So, my players went up against Azereza in Seven Dooms for Sandpoint. There's no way her CL is correct, right? She crits so easily for basically their entire HP pool. To add to that her abilities stack the fight heavily against the players. She's wild.

>>94203432
>TQ: What class will Paizo reduce to archetype next?
Mesmerist

did they really nerf Imprisonment by making it a mythic ritual? or am i missing something?

>>94204313
Yeah it wasn't reprinted in remaster.

I'm doing something ambitious in foundry for my pf2 game; an ancient cyclops vault dungeon where different layers of the vault rotate; basically the vault IS the lock, with some kind of riddle telling you the number of doors to skip. The doors lock into place for a short amount of time when you stop rotating the vault, allowing monsters to exit and traps to activate.
If anyone has ideas for more interesting traps that the different layers could contain as you unlock it, that would be swell.
Ideas so far:
>undead monsters // ancient constructs in cubbies
>traps that shoot fire/lightning/etc
out the door when the door locks into place in the wrong order
>combination of the two, where the trap applies some kind of debuff(frightened, sickened, etc) and THEN monsters come out
>locks the entrance and starts flooding the room with water(skeletons optional)
I'd do the whole extraplanar portal shit but this is not meant to be a high level dungeon. Maybe a one-way portal that spits out elementals.

>Paizo "Alright everyone, get ready for REMASTER!!!"


Barbarian:
>Can just Rage for free when rolling initiative
>No more AC penalty when Raging
>Becomes faster all the time and even faster during Rage

Swashbuckler
>Brand new trait and mechanics
>Can now get Panache damn near when ever it wants to
>Even gets it when it fails, but looks cool while doing it
>DC to get Panache for doing creative shit is now "non-trivial" instead of hard
>Chances to be good at skills other than Acrobatics & your style skill
>Gets precision damage with agile/finesse weapons all the time like it should

Ranger
>Warden spells
>Hunt Prey still abysmal

Monk
>Can use advanced Monk weapons more easily
>No options other than Ancestry feats, Monk stances, or general feats to gain armor proficiency to help low Dex Monk's AC
>Still uses stances exactly like every other class, no ways to start combat in a stance like an actual martial artist
>Archetype Flurry is screwed over nonsensically
>Whirling Throw screwed over nonsensically

Rogue
>Thief racket can add Dex to unarmed damage, Just to make sure Monks know their place

Martial Artist Archetype
>Gets reaction that just lets it block damage, Monk can't get it

Spirit Warrior Archetype
>Gets Monk's Powerful Fists, but also with Parry
>Gives a single action "notFlurry" immediately in the Dedication feat
>notFlurry only requires unarmed and a one-handed or just agile/finesse weapon, doesn't need Monk trait
>Can share runes from your handwraps with a weapon
>Can make targets off-guard to the 2nd attack if the first hits, works wonderfully with notFlurry

>>94204388
>Whirling Throw is screwed over nonsensically
This nerf makes sense, though, whirling throw is still the best reposition in the game even after the nerf. It's more tactically interesting and slightly less "instant game over for the grappled" now; it has a turn to fight over the grapple before the target is thrown into the nearest horrible hazard.
>Archetype flurry
This nerf is bullshit and isn't real in games i run; completely unnecessary and cuts you out of half the available monk feats where you get underwhelming strikes from a stance that only make sense because of flurry, or because they rely on qi strike, which is bad if you can't flurry.

>>94204388

Avenger Rogue
>Must choose a deity, can't become sanctified
>Gains Hunt Prey, with all its problems
>At least gets good compressed single action Twin stuff from Rangers
>Can sneak attack with their deity's weapon, but only against Hunted Prey
>You'll only get one chance to sneak attack your Hunted Prey, since as soon as you Hunt them, the entire rest of the party will start attacking your hunted prey
>Sneak attack is normal, no options to make it Holy or deal Spirit damage

>>94204438
>before the target is thrown into the nearest horrible hazard
Doesn't work, it's not push or pull effect

>Player Core pg. 422 If you're pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can't put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise.

>>94204686
>Doesn't work, it's not push or pull effect
Ridiculous. You're physically throwing them. It's a push effect.

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>>94203432
I was looking at playing Goblin and this feat looks super interesting. Combined with Harder They Fall (+1d6 on tripped off-guard opponents, and sneak attack on crit success) does this mean you are tripping and sneak attacking two enemies in 2 actions? This seems good enough to build around. A mount would allow you to count everyone as Off-guard with Gang-up. The only question is what weapon and if it's better to go Ruffian or Thief, with Ruffian allowing more of a STR focus and Thief getting dex to damage and less MAD, but a lower athletics roll.

>>94204697
>Ridiculous.
>You're physically throwing them.
>It's a push effect.
Only one of these is correct, sadly.

>>94204946
>throw someone at a wall of fire
>they magically stop themselves mid-air
Nah, that's retarded. It's a push effect.

>>94204697
>push effect
And where in the rulebook are these "push effects" defined?

>>94204958
Nowhere.
On page 422 it casually mentions 'push or pull effects', but does not explicitly define them.
The index does not mention 'push effects' or 'pull effects'. It's not a trait, it's not a neatly defined 'thing'. There are obvious logical conclusions where you can definitively include everything that says 'push' or 'pull' in it and forces movement, but this doesn't cover all cases and is often specifically fucked with by paizo(see legacy Gravity Well, which is objectively a pull effect but respects forced movement rules regardless). Page 422 explicitly leaves it up to the GM.
GMs who decide to give every single creature the magical ability to resist being physically tossed into a wall of fire aren't people I would play with.
A based GM would give the monsters access to Whirling Throw and throw their players around.

It's always hilarious to me how desperately everyone in this general avoids gameplay posts for bottom of the barrel bitching. That poor tranny could float a general on his own in a general that is even remotely good. You guys are truly awful.

>>94204878
Probably better with Ruffian desu. Lets you max str; you don't need or want dex to damage if you want to focus on tripping people, and Ruffian gets you the armor proficiency to not worry about it.

>>94204878
I'm actually not entirely sure you can deal sneak attack damage with Hard Tail, as it has neither the Agile nor Finesse trait (for Thief), nor is it a weapon (for Ruffian). If Ruffian could deal sneak attack damage with it, you'd want to go with that (there's no way Thief can, since even if it counted as a weapon it still isn't Agile or Finesse). If I was a GM and someone asked me if Hard Tail could work with Ruffian rogue I'd say yes, because it's a neat ability and it's way more fun than just going longspear like everybody else, but I don't know if that's possible RAW.

To answer the other part of your question, assuming it does work with Ruffian, yes that's two Trips for two actions, but only one instance of the multi-attack penalty. Very good if you happen to have two adjacent enemies.

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>>94203432
So what Adventure Paths are actually good?

>>94205287
Thankfully, The Harder They Fall doesn't care what weapon you're using to do it, if any. It just cares about you successfully tripping them. He can keep a club or something in his main hand for sneak attacking.

>>94205385
That is a very cool interaction, I had no idea you could sneak past the Sneak Attack restrictions with that.

>>94205339
I'm enjoying Stolen Fate a lot. I also like Extinction Curse as long as you understand ahead of time that the circus is a relatively minor part of the adventure overall.

>>94205339
I liked Outlaws of Alkenstar, but my GM made several modifications to add more crime and help us actually feel like outlaws instead of framed heroes.

>>94205339
I think most of the APs are improved massively if you understand ahead of time what they *actually* are, as oppossed to what they advertise themselves as.
>Age of Ashes
Is not really about a dragon apocalypes until right at the very end, is actually more about a group of anti-slavery activists (the party) hunting down and dismantling a criminal slaver group
>Agents of Edgewatch
You're not really playing as Police Officers. After the first book you're adventurers saving the world by fighting through dungeons.
>Extinction Curse
It's not really about being in the circus and that is dropped after a week. It's really about saving the world from an ancient evil by fighting through dungeons.
etc etc etc

Abomination Vaults is one of the few adventure paths that feels consistently like it is what it is and doesn't abandon its premise. I felt the need to expand it quite a bit when I ran it, since it is pretty much all dungeon all the way through without much to break it up.
Age of Ashes annoyed me greatly as a player with how it promises 'dragon apocalypse' on the front cover but is really just about hunting down a boring slaver organisation, with a plot that makes sense at the very end when all the pieces are put together, but felt pretty opaque and boring from the inside while playing it.

Otherwise, I've heard great things about Season of Ghosts, and terrible things about Gatewalkers. Which is a shame, since gatewalkers *sounds* cool, it just supposedly 1) doesn't deliver on the 'occult mystery investigation' that it promises, and 2) Leads the party by the nose to follow around a main-character NPC for the whole second book.

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>>94203432
TQ:
>Samurai -- You can't ignore us weebs forever, you chink-bootlicking FUCKS
>Skald -- Pretty easy to do, though need to separate it from Warrior Bard and Spirit Instinct
>Mesmerist -- Arguably already happened with Captivator. A hard concept to make a class to begin with.
>Hunter -- Likely to be a Class Archetype for Summoner so that they get some martial powers alongside a beefier Eidolon.
>Shifter -- Howl of the Wild was basically the last chance they would be...anything? Wild Mimic and Werecreature did ate them for lunch but they kind of still need some more if they want to make Synthesist Summoner a thing.

I am biased enough to actually say Ninja could totally be a full and unique class. I've been trying to workshop a "Martial Rogue + Witch" idea for a few days now so that it would feel like it has a good identity to it. Biggest issue has been figuring out how to handle subclasses, if it would be okay to say subclasses effect your spellcasting modifier the way Rackets affect KAS.

>>94204686
Push/Pull effects are all supposed to reference Forced Movement effects that don't have direct control over your movement. This is why Pirate's Walk the Plank is so verbose, and why you can't fuck over someone with Lose the Path. If you need to aim the effect over screwing over someone's own Stride, it is a push/pull effect. So Whirling Throw is a Push/Pull effect.

And kind of why it needed SOME level of nerfing. I think it got hit too hard, but not a bad idea to do such to begin with.

2e
Is there any way to sub athletics or strength for another skill/stat when it comes to leaping? We moved systems and my character has average strength at best and was big on jumping around.

>>94206061
>when it comes to leaping?
Leaping itself doesn't require stats outside of your Speed. I assume you're referring to Long Jump / High Jump.
When it comes to that, Acrobat archetype has the Graceful Leaper feat at level 7:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1876
>You can roll an Acrobatics check instead of an Athletics check when making a High Jump or Long Jump.

>>94205984
I feel it's kind of a shame that pf2e doesn't quite have the room for 3/4ths casting-3/4ths BaB that 1e had - leads to cleric warpriests being stuck with too much of their chassis tied up in spellcasting, and things like bloodrager or vindicator or whatever having not enough.
I guess we have Magus/Summoner style "wavecasting", though I dunno if I really enjoy that solution. I feel like I'd have preferred more low-ranking spells per day rather than 4 high ranking spells and barely anything else.
>Samurai
Feels really hard to make a separate Thing that isn't just 'a fighter/champion/ranger/guardian/chevalier in a different hat'. I guess you could make a archetype for Ijitsu or whatever it's called with quickdraw and cut-from-air and stuff.
>Skald
Hard to figure where to budget its features - a bard with inspire courage, full martial progression and no spells would probably be pretty close to hitting the class budget already.
>Hunter
I feel like Hunter was always kind of a bandaid because 1e Ranger's core main abilities sucked and didn't fulful the ranger fantasy.
>Shifter
Yeah I feel like there's room for something like that - wildshape is an awkward inclusion on a class that isn't otherwise particularly good at using it. Though it might be a little hard to disambiguate from just animal barbarian.

>>94206061
As a GM I've always houseruled that you can use acrobatics for jumping. Like it's literally called 'acrobatics'

>>94205393
To be fair, it has to be a critical success against an off-guard target, which is what makes this strategy so interesting- the tail upgrades it to a critical success if you succeed at all, and can hit multiple targets (at the same MAP?).
I swear, every time I come to this thread I see an idea that makes me go, "Alright, this is my next character." Last time it was an Exemplar, this time I want a ludicrously strong tailed goblin rogue that knocks people on their ass to deal sneak attack damage.

Anything cool for magus on the remaster or is it still just slot machine: the class? Fishing for spell strikes and missing 70% of them is so boring.

>>94206178
>Anything cool for magus on the remaster
Magus isn't in the remaster. They'll probably produce an updated version of Secrets of Magic for the remaster sooooome time next year - they're currently planning one for Guns & Gears.

It'll probably buff Magus like 20% as much as you want it to.

>>94206061
Graceful Leaper's already been mentioned, but it's also worth noting that you don't actually need strength to jump around, even without it. By level 3, the Assurance skill feat in Athletics (which has no strength requirement) guarantees a 15-foot horizontal leap with no chance of failure. Assuming you're ranking up Athletics, that increases to a 20-foot leap at level 6, and a 25-foot leap at 9, which maxes out the "you can't jump farther than your land Speed" restriction unless you're adding +move speed items (which you probably are, if you're a melee character, but still--this is an example, and your leap distance keeps increasing as you level up). The leaping capstone feat, Cloud Jump, requires a legendary rank in Athletics but does not have a strength requirement at all. In fact, none of the leaping skill feats do. You can get to legendary Athletics with a +0 strength. If all you're planning to use it for is leaping, that might even be optimal.

Even on strength-based characters, I rely on assurance unless I'm trying to leap an extremely long distance that would be impossible with it. Removing the possibility of rolling a natural 1 just turns leaping into a regular, passive ability with no chance of failure, which is a big win (especially if you're doing it in combat, where you'd really rather not fuck up). Depending on how exactly you're building your character, you might opt to use assurance for every athletics check you ever make and never roll a single D20 for it.

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I need to decide which miniatures I'm gonna büy for my nëw adventure. Which is better for a "miñing village on an island in the middle of a sea gets invaded from the underdark / underground" scenario: troglodytes or duergar?

>>94206206
>an extremely long distance that would be impossible with it

without it*, rather.

>>94206111
>I feel it's kind of a shame that pf2e doesn't quite have the room for 3/4ths casting-3/4ths BaB that 1e had
That was a bit of a tradeoff, especially when you consider how much spellcasting was tacked onto classes and archetypes thanks to the meta of 1e, even if it didn't fit the theme or synergized with it. Being a bit more cautious with giving out spell slots now that they scale up to Rank 10 and cantrips being GOOD heavily changes how you should give out spellcasting.
On the flipside, it feels like Paizo actively made a mistake chasing the 5e Warlock audience with Bounded Spellcasting, with how nothing else since SoM used it despite its reasonably good balance (it should be 6 slots a day, though, not 4...). It's frustrating to have to buy so many feats with things like Spellshot Gunslinger and Bloodrager when the point of them being CAs should be giving non-spellcasting classes spellcasting without all the effort and lost feat momentum.

Again, why I'm not afraid of giving my little Shinobi idea Bounded Primal/Occult slots.

>I guess you could make a archetype for Ijitsu or whatever it's called with quickdraw and cut-from-air and stuff.
That's all I wanted with Tian Xia! That's all my samurai love needs, maybe a bit of dual-wielding for dessert. But nooooooooooooooooooooooooo, can't have shit in Golarion....

>I feel like Hunter was always kind of a bandaid because 1e Ranger's core main abilities sucked and didn't fulful the ranger fantasy.
I once brought this up with a big Hunter fanboy, him feeling that 2e's companions aren't customizable and beefy enough to be proper replacements for Hunters. And Summoners can't work because Summoners don't have martial training. Left me with some food for thought, even if I don't necessarily agree with him.

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>>94205984
I'll be real, now that exemplar exists, most of what I want is covered. If The Deft allowed quickdrawing a regular sword instead of only throwable weapons, it would have the quickdraw aesthetic part covered since I could draw directly into Gleaming Blade's transcend, and transition to a new "stance" (read: ikon), but even without that... I dunno, it feels "good enough"?

>>94206218
>It's frustrating to have to buy so many feats
It's just another way that Free Archetype Feats feels almost mandatory to play an interesting character.

>PF2e
Monkbros, what options are there to use parry on a unarmed-focused monk? Shields are lame as fuck on a monk, even if reflavored. What would you guys pick?

>Take Monastic Weaponry anyway just to carry around a tonfa or tekko-kagi around
>Spirit Warrior dedication, perhaps even the feat to increase the AC bonus to +2 later on
>Eventually get Ironblood Stance
>Buy a nightstick, dueling cape or parrying scabbard at character creation (all with a distinct flavor)
Any other (sensible) options to consider?

How do i stay alive as a level 1 sorcerer in PF2 revised? At 15 AC i could burn a feat to get proficiency in medium armor but is getting 17 really going to change anything? I can't really count on my party, no fighter or champion, nothing that can stop opponents to rush at me if they feel like it.

>>94206345
Duellist, Fighter or Swashbuckler archetype to get Duelling Parry, perhaps. Technically not parry but same sort of thing.

>>94206372
>is getting 17 really going to change anything?
Yes.
You could try sneaking?

>>94206252
Yeah, the pieces for successful Samurai and Ninja archetypes been around for the longest time, it's just more a case of them being super scattered about and in other loaded ideas like Assassin, Shadowdancer, Shadowcaster, Martial Disciple, Duelist, etc. It never was impossible to make one without a full archetype, just sort of requires a long spread of options, and I believe a big appeal of Pathfinder and its Archetype system is coalescing such and making it easier/less punishing to do compared to other systems.

It's not that I disagree with Paizo's stance entirely, and I think Exemplar fulfills quite a lot of superpowered martial ideas. But I still think there's ground they should tread with the ideas

>>94206343
I feel like Dragon's Demand 2e is going to crash and burn no matter what if it doesn't get Multiclass Archetypes up. Archetypes are just so core to Pathfinder, it's frustrating to see almost NO ONE higher-up get it.

>>94206372
Sort of a case of "Tough shit, survive." Either grab a shield and use that to cover your ass or try to stick far back as you can. Level 1 is just going to be hell for everyone. Grease or other field spells can help give you some distance and going prone grants you defenses against ranged attacks, but ultimately you just gotta tough it out til you get more spells and defensive options.
Medium Armor would help out quite a bit too.

>>94206345
It'd help if we knew what spell list / bloodline you were going in on.
I agree with >>94206405 in that medium armor is a viable defensive option if you can swing it, and grease should help keep some distance between you and melee enemies if placed correctly.
The Shield spell is never a bad take if you're on the right list.

>>94203432
All the links are broken. Do we have backups for these?

>>94206390
Those are good, too, despite requiring two feats each and technically requiring holding a weapon anyway.

>>94206372
>How do i stay alive as a level 1 sorcerer in PF2 revised?
every single Unarmored Defense spellcaster in the game is required to start with 16 dex and ideally you can afford to burn an ancestry feat on dragon skin

>>94206372
>>94206841
Or be smart and play so the guys in armor are the ones the enemy cares about and have trouble disengaging.

>>94206958
We all know that's not always possible. All it takes is one good crit to outright kill a 6 HP class.

>>94207014
Only a death effect can pull that off. Even with a crit, you just go down.

>>94207044
I just played a game where I had doomed 2 and my brain farted, my bad.
Still, it's not hard to crit for 14-17 with a ranged attack.

>>94205339
Blood lords is good but read ahead and make sure to change enemy void damage to cold or something if you have either
A: undead PCs
B: PCs that take the ritual in book 1 to get void healing
it's insane that paizo encourages the former and offers the latter and then has a bunch of encounters with enemies that only deal void damage.

Pf1e. I want to become a 1st-level manifester, as a martial character, with the least amount of investment possible. What's the best way to achieve that, aside from dipping 1 level soulknife or something?

>>94207233
>soulknife
I meant psychic warrior, sorry

>>94204438
>underwhelming strikes from a stance that only make sense because of flurry
1d8 agile finesse backstabber is underwhelming to you? Even if you're not taking into account it's a 0-handed weapon?

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What happens when a PC is knocked out during their own turn?

The original Pathfinder 2e core rulebook (2019)'s first printing errata says:
>• Page 459: In the first bullet point under Knocked Out and Dying, change the sentence to “You immediately move your initiative position to directly before the turn in which you were reduced to 0 HP.” This was originally intended, and prevents weird situations where you are knocked out by a reaction and die without having a chance for your allies to help you.

The Player Core, p. 410, says:
>• Move your initiative position to directly before the turn in which you were reduced to 0 HP.

The Player Core, p. 443, says:
>• You immediately move your initiative position to directly before the creature or effect that reduced you to 0 Hit Points.

Let us assume that the Player Core, p. 443, is erroneous.

What happens if a creature is reduced to 0 on their own turn? For instance, suppose the initiative order looks something like this:
• Enemy A
• Enemy B
• PC A
• Enemy C

During PC A's turn, they take a Reactive Strike or persistent damage and are dropped to 0. Does the initiative order stay the same, or does the initiative order proceed to enemy C, and then become something like this?

• Enemy A
• PC A
• Enemy B
• Enemy C

>>94207538
the character's initiative goes to before the enemy who hit them with attack of opportunity or whoever inflicted the persistent damage

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>>94207538
"Immediately before PC A's turn" does not somehow lead to "before Enemy B".

>>94207327
They're meant to be played with some kind of action compression, like every melee weapon in the game. I'm counting Vicious Swing here because you're getting an extra half a strike at your full MAP for it.
Playing them without Flurry is like riding a bicycle that only has one wheel.

>animal instinct barb
>can only use your animal instinct natural weapons
>a huge portion of these are agile unarmed attacks which get half the rage damage because agile

>>94207614
They did just add a number of options with HotW, to be fair. Scorpion looks fun.

>1e
Can I use Leadership to passively generate income?
Just set up a hot dog stand in the middle of a city and give them a cut of the profit every month or session?

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>>94207705

>>94206345
crane stance, duh.

>1e
https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kobold%20Flood
>You can make a grapple combat maneuver check to mount a prone Medium or Large foe.
Does this you can't grapple prone targets normally?
Are you able to do this as an Attack of Opportunity, or do you have to wait on your next turn to do this?

>>94208643
You can grapple prone creatures normally, but they would not be prevented from standing up before breaking your grapple. That's the only benefit getting into a mount position gives you.

Kobold Flood does not change the type of action required to grapple, so it would be a standard action.

>>94204388
>>Thief racket can add Dex to unarmed damage, Just to make sure Monks know their place
So if you were going to houserule finesse to give dex to damage by default, what would be a good replacement for this?

>>94208919
Slap it on sneak attack die.

>>94207705
>GP earned weekly by a cohort with Signature Skill and a +20 bonus in Profession: Hot Dog Stand
30

>GP saved weekly by a cohort with magic creation feats and a Valet familiar
14,000

>>94207596
>Vicious Swing
...is worse than simply making two Strikes past level 4 outside of certain edge cases. Even against enemies with resistance, it tends to lower DPR.

If a rogue takes stumbling stance, what exactly is the deficit he's being forced to bear? The action to enter the stance? For an unarmed attack that leaves both his hands free and is better than any weapon he could wield and even procs off-guard on enemies for free? How is he worse off than he was with weapons alone?

>>94207614
Most (if not all - I'm not checking manually) options with agile attacks have them as secondary options for a non-agile attack. d12 unarmed + d6 agile. Seems fine to me.

>>94208919
Double Dex to damage, of course. :)

Looking at animist I don't get really get what they're going for beyond like what if cleric had a way to swap around deities throughout the day. I guess "priest character but no stick up my butt and people aren't expecting heals" is a powerful feature on its own.

>>94207705
I think there are rules for running a company in 1e, no leadership needed. But yea, not worth it, especially because nothing earned or owned by cohort or followers actually belong to PC, though I guess you could bully them for pocket change

>>94208919
giving dex to damage on finesse period just makes strength a useless stat unless they make finesse weapons have even worse damage die

>>94206372
You don't boost your AC to not get hit. You boost your AC to not get Crit to death. 15->17 is 10% less chance of getting crit (and hit, but hit is normally going to happen most of the time).

This will come up repeatedly. Those points of AC for casters ARE important, even if you have frontliners and whatnot because they stop you from eating kilometric amounts of shit and some of the outright fucking degenerate "on a crit deal double persistent damage" or "on a crit you are enfeebled" that a lot of mons have.

Pf1
Any build ideas for a drow inquisitor?

>>94209208
Yeah, it was a major deal with 1e Shaman. Cleric list with bonuses without the pettiness of deities or the bookwork of going through revelations and curses ontop of everything. It's strongest aspect comes from its versatility in spells, think of it like it is a Divine Wizard.

>>94208919
Your first step is to say "no" and scrap that idea. This ain't 5e, there IS an actual weapon economy to care about.

2e
Can you retrain skills you get from your background or class chassis?

>>94210304
It's kinda whatever really.
It's a large chunk of damage at low level, but then when players have major striking its something like 6 damage on top of 3d8+3d6+7 and basically irrelevant.

If it makes the little players neurons activate to add 4 damage then let them have it, you can bend damage very far and break no part of the game. It's hit modifiers that you really shouldn't tinker with.

>>94210326
No.
You can only retrain selections. You didn't select those, you were granted them.

>>94210298
I always have wanted to make drow with all the racial spell like feats they get. Wont probably work that well as inquisitor though

>>94210480
Oh yes, I built around those several times. But to make it work you need a class that has a lot of bonus feats. Fighter, Slayer, Ranger and then Swashbuckler and Warpriest.

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How the fuck do I make a swashbuckler dual wield work? If you take dual wield warrior, double slice is competing with your finisher. If you take ranger for twin takedown, hunt prey is competing for your action to gain panache, and I don't know how worthy is taking ranger just for twin takedown when the dedication is so shit.

And both options don't really benefit from your other class features. Pic related, the character I want to create.

>>94210936
start with fighter or rogue

>>94210936
Finishers are their own activities hoss so they aren't compatible with striking feats anyway.
You very specifically need dual finisher.

>>94210936
Did they ever buff the old snake girls?

>>94210954
The build would revolve around taking battledancer for leading dance and taking thlipit contestant for lassoing lash with duel wield as main damage and fire damage at the side, probably elemental barbarian or items, so no, starting with other class would make it come online at like level 12

>>94211025
Sounds like you can just play it as is until level 8 for dual finisher?

>elemental barbarian
Skip

>>94210936
>How the fuck do I make a swashbuckler dual wield work?
you don't, until level 8 where you get Dual Finisher, a 1A double slice that applies finisher damage dice on BOTH hits. Before that if you REALLY want to play double slice before that, get an agile secondary weapon and just wack them with a -4 MAP after your tumble through and 1st Strike.

>>94211025
Just do fire kineticist with swash dedication imo.
Weapons as theme are crinj, just take kineticist and that solves everything fire related.

>>94211063
>Weapons as theme are crinj
That's because the trait system for weapons is fucking shit, I still can't believe we don't have an official system to create our own weapons. Hey, I'm a legandary crafter and I want to create a knife with backswing, well too fucking bad, you fucking can't.

>>94211059
Doing it like that means you just get completely fucked by resistances, no? I think I'm just going to homebrew twin takedown as a finisher.

>>94211206
Just melee blast with weapon infusion fampai.
You're overcomplicating this for no gain.

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>>94205339
as someone who's only checked out the video game is kingmaker actually any good?

>>94211237
Yeah I'm running a game and the groups up to vordakai.
Good adventure with a lot of stuff you can tweak, drop, add to.
Very good premium foundry module, only thing I can really fault it for is crappy kingdom interface and its missing generic plains hills mountain etc battle maps, both of which you can fix relatively easily.

Widely regarded as the best 2e AP if you want to take the year or so necessary to clear it playing weekly.

>>94211206
You literally don't have to cause Dual Finisher does what Twin Takedown does exactly, just without needing to Hunt Prey. If you are complaining about resistances, Twin Takedown also deals with the same issue. Only thing you would be resolving is it not being Level 8.

>>94211140
A custom weapon system (outside of Inventor) would be pretty redundant. Outside of just protecting their own trade dress, there's so many options to tinker with weapon capabilities through feats, magic items, and runes, you really don't need fully custom weapons. And again, Inventor is right there.

Newish to e Herr, how does Magus work? I get spellstriking, but it's difficult to make the action economy work. Any advice or even a build guide?

>>94211063
Swashbuckler dedication is cucked. Kineticist dedication is way better, especially if you're just interested in one element.
>>94211206
Are you completely set on Swashbuckler for this? A fighter, ranger, or rogue would be better at straight-up dual wielding until 8th.
Either way, until you reach 8th level for dual finisher, the second weapon could be a throwing knife, allowing you easy access to a thrown weapon for Flying Blade, or a main-gauche for Extravagant Parry.

>>94211206
i assure you, most of the time no amount of actual resistance you'll encounter will be great enough to nullify 2d6 x2 that you can get from dual finisher. The action compression Dual Finisher gives you alone beats Dual Slice by miles, not to mention that you don't need to worry about archetypes/ use your FA slot for something else by taking this path

>>94211265
>Inventor is right there.
I'm a fucking legandary crafter and I need to be a specific class to create a new weapon? Hey, I'm a elf ranger and I want a spear with the brace trait, tell me what feat gives me that, and don't say reflavor motherfucker because that still a feat tax that has nothing to do with my fucking legandary crafter skill.

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>>94211285
Magus is going to be pretty weird if you don't have an understanding of the whole metagame of 2e. And even then, they still won't be an easy class to pilot. Generally...
>Don't expect to spellstrike at every opportunity you get, sometimes it is better to play on the Fighter or Wizard sides.
>You don't need to raise INT at all if you don't want to. CHA works better thanks to how potent Champion MC or Psychic MC is for them and you can't even spellstrike with save spells without Expansive Spellstrike.
>Expansive Spellstrike itself can be quite useful, the guarantee of getting SOME damage on the field while still having range can be more helpful than trying to luckshit out a whole ass crit spell attack.
>If you don't know the foe has AoO, don't risk it. Either remove their reactions, get someone else to, or just don't Spellstrike.
>It may seem like a waste, but a lot of Conflux Spells are designed more for their scenario than as tools to recharge Spellstrike. Don't just sit on a focus point because you still have a spellstrike charged, you might legit miss the opportunity to use either.
>Force Fang is actually pretty good. Again, guaranteed damage is better than no damage on a Magus.
>Look at the magic items. Scrolls, Wands, Spellhearts, Staves, equipment, use everything to expand your spells per day.
>Sometimes you just want to stand back and setup Arcane Cascade over getting into the fray. Cast Shield, stance up, get into position.

Anyone have suggestions for level 3-5 1E one shots? I'm teaching people how to play the game and need something to run the 1E iconic pregens through

>>94211285
I've seen a magus clear AV, and he played it very conservatively and pretty much just cast buffs and walls since spellstrike never paid off, unless the actioned lined up such that he could make a spellstrike without being punished.
Ended up being the pivotal guy in the final fight because he cast fly on himself and chased the bbeg around with the mcguffin, protected by his very high will save.
What he worked out is that it was usually better to cast a spell and cascade on round 1, then go in once monsters were pounding on the fighter and a flank spot was available.
Was a laughing shadow with heavy armor. Dimensional assault saved his bacon several times by getting him out of grabs and through transparent walls.

>>94210298
The FCB is hella sweet (and available to half-elves with the right ART). By lv 9 you'll have five bonus teamwork feats as you get one every 4th and 3rd level. I'd capitalize on that and create different feat layouts to share with Shared Training.

Ex Stealth Synergy + Lookout when the party is sneaking through a tomb.
Paired Opportunists + Broken Wing Gambit against multiple weaker enemies.
Bonded Mind + Share Spells to allow the party wizard to cast personal spells on the frontliner.
Covering Fire (RTT) + Harrying Partners to turtle up against a big brute.
etc etc

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>>94211391
>I'm a fucking legandary crafter and I need to be a specific class to create a new weapon?
>I have legendary arcana but I can't make up my own spells!?
>I have legendary stealth but I can't become Invisible at will??
>I have legendary fortitude but I can't hold my breath underwater forever???
>I have legendary deception but I can't say the earth is flat???

This is just not the game for on letting the players design things. Legendary skills still have to be reigned in the setting's and system's capabilities. Crafting systems as a whole are never as open as they are marketed because the concept is genuinely absurd, even in games that don't care about balance that much like in 1e. Crafting something that doesn't exist in the rules, if at all basically have no fundamental way of designing around. Custom Staves were much easier to grant rules for because spells already have predefined limitations and budgets thanks to spell slots. A custom staff wouldn't be functionally different to a normal one granted by the devs. While weapons do have power budgets, traits are a lot more in flux and can't easily be quantified when given to player hands. Sure, it is easy to say how much Agile and Backswing costs, but what about Combination? Twin? Hampering? Resonant? Razing? Propulsive? Backstabber?

Inventor is so hobbled by its own custom weapon system and that's only adding 3-4 typical traits onto a weapon. Creating an entirely new idea out of the system, especially something as impactful as your weapon, is just going to be the realm of homebrew for the foreseeable future because how would you even begin to argue the balance of such.

>>94211391
it's called, "Hey GM, can I use my crafting skill to add this trait." Seriously what the fuck is wrong with people. you can't even think to ask the GM if you can do something.

I get it "But I shouldn't have to ask the GM to homebrew something"

The whole point of having a robust system of rules is so that if you do want to homebrew something, you have a solid foundation. Inventor innovations and breakthroughs are a good starting point for making a custom weapon system.

>>94211285
Go Starlit Span.

>>94211478
I highly suggest Feast of Ravenmoor. Bonus points if one of the PCs knows about Desna.
I ran it last year for halloween and we had a blast.

>>94211531
>genuinely recommending the most boring subclass in the game
I had a player quit due to burnout after making that mistake.

>>94211687
Winning is never boring.

>>94211599
Thanks, I'll check it out

>2e
>Multiclass Cleric Characters sidebar
>"Martial clerics are typically looking for a potent domain spell or some healing to use in a pinch."
>domain spells are shit and you can just as easily cast Heal from any divine or primal spellcasting archetype

>>94207044
Not true. There are massive damage rules in this game, and at low levels they are a genuine threat. A level 1 orc warrior can bring a level 1 sorcerer with +1 con and a 6hp ancestry from full health to dead due to massive damage with a max roll crit. A level 3 grizzly bear can do that with slightly less than a max roll even if we give the sorcerer +3 con and a 10hp ancestry. Low level play is deadly as fuck.

>>94211885
Are you unironically telling me there isn't a single martial that wants Unimpeded Stride, Athletic Rush, Vibrant Thorns, Perfected Mind, Perfected Body, Agile Feet, Precious Metals, or Weapon Surge?

>>94211974
>massive damage
So the best thing to do for a level 1 caster is put Runic Weapon on a fighter before running and hiding? Is casting cantrips even worth the risk?

>>94212035
So long as you don't seductively wiggle for a bandit with a bow or walk up to hug giant scorpions you can do more or less whatever.

>>94212035
hey now, there are good cantrips...to buff fighter as well! Ain't no way they gonna deny a Rousing Splash and Guidance from their cornermen!

Level 1 PF2e is a bit rocket-tag-y. Just roll with it, the odds of you being massive damage squished is pretty low as long as you look out what to fight. Also call out your GM for running Level 3 creatures against a(n unoptimal) level 1 party, that is a dick move.

>play a throwaway level 1 character you wouldn't mind killing off, and bring in the real character at level 2
I've solved it.

>>94206477

follow share thread

2e
are there any spells that give a weapon a different metal type for weaknesses? Like make a weapon silver etc.
More specifically, are there any spells that make unarmed attacks have metal properties? Mainly asking for animal companions and eidolons

>>94212399
Clad in metal, infuse vitality, conductive weapon, I think there's a fire one but it doesn't come to mind.
Unarmed and metal though, nah.
I think a GM could allow you to chrome grill your bear with silver salve though like it's Fury Road.

>>94211059
dual finisher is only against separate enemies
>>94210936
you get combination finisher and do attack > finisher
double slice is also very consistent damage considering you apply precise strike all the time now

>>94206345
dual wield tonfa for sun ce vibes

>>94212134
Reminds me of my 1e wizard when our GM insisted on us starting at lv1. First level Ilsurian Archer, rest wizard, retrain at lv 5.
Kinda fucked how some classes are just designed to be absolute ass to play the first levels.

>>94212897
>not going for Arcane Archer
Jokes aside, I actually tried similar builds several times but they all get absolutely invalidated by the Eldritch Archer Magus.

I would like to take a moment to complain about the new Mythic content.
My Alchemist is 9. I've been doing well for those levels, busting my butt to do extra research and make extra smart decisions because I know that Alchemist has a harder learning curve and needs some help to be 'as good, and I've been making it work.

GM says that War of the Immortals is awesome, and he's been waiting for it, and we're gonna start content from it when we hit 11.
Okay, I think, new stuff, neato.
But after excitedly looking through the Paths to Immortality that start at Mythic 12 that we'll be using, I'm feelin kinda gutted.
My Alch isn't Evil and has nothing to do with mounted combat, isn't Charismatic really at all to deal with 'Knights' or 'Hierophants', has no interested devotion to either Celestials or Fiends, no Animal Companion, isn't some super warrior, and technically isn't a Spellcaster at all.
The fuck am I supposed to pick out of these options? Where's just 'the tons of knowledge guy'? Or at least a generic option for like a jack of [many] trades or something?
I didn't expect something particularly 'Alchemist-y' like a science-devoted pathway that finally uncovers Immortality through the Philosopher's Stone or something, but I definitely expected your typical legendary trickster-type with his bag of weird items, or some kind of 'legendary drinker' like the thousands of myths about 'Nectar of the Gods' or 'Immortality Elixirs' or giga-warriors who get stronger when drunk like all over in Norse/Greek mythos.
Pathfinder even has its own Mythic country-ruler Alchemist who makes the Sun Orchid Elixir, right?

Do I petition my GM for something custom? Or just use my next 2.5 levels to try to find God or become obsessed with Heaven?
For a class with more obvious in-built Mythic-style ramifications and consequences to their higher level progression/lore in the form of panaceas, infinite wealth, eternal life, and the like, I'm very disappointed in the offerings for Alchemist.

>>94213133
this is the first book with mythic stuff so you can't cover every base I don't think.
Your best bet would probably just be legend if you're bomber or ask your DM what he thinks
at least you're not kineticist though, they got absolutely fucked and cant bypass mythic resistance because their impulses and blasts aren't strikes or spells

>>94213297
This is THE mythic book. If they wanted mythic to be playable, they needed to include generic options usable by every character type instead of wasting pages on setting-specific bullshit like apocalypse rider.

>>94211251
Is there premium foundry shit anywhere, I can't see it in the usual location?

>>94212076
Fine, I'll buff, but be warned as a cleric of Calistria all my spells cause targets orgasmic pleasure.

>>94211265
>inventor

Why do Oracle mysteries still have domains if they don't give you domain spells

>>94213133
Broken Chain could work if it fits the character at all (desu i just like the thought of You Can't Kill An Idea on an alchemist).
But yeah, not having a Mythic Smartass when you have several classes (thaum, inventor, alchemist, investigator) rely on their smarts kinda stinks.
Maybe ask the GM if you specifically can get exemplar archetype/dual-class instead, one of their class features is literally just a bag of potions/elixirs that you can draw and drink an item from as one action, and another lets you produce infinite upgraded throwing weapons(bombs if gm permits it).

>>94213111
Ah nah I wasn't actually going for the "wizard archer" theme, I just didn't wanna spend four levels being dogshit. So I used an Orc Hornbow for 2d6+1 dmg with the fat +4 att from Bullseye Shot instead of using Acid Splash over and over at low levels. Then I retrained out of ranger, absolutely refused to acknowledge I had ever used a bow in-character, and was single-classed wizard for the rest of the campaign.

>>94214044
Are you fucking blind?
>Domain Acumen
>Domain Fluency

How does a GM call for a Very Specific Lore recall knowledge check for a creature without spoiling what it is?

>>94213133
Yeah they have pretty good coverage in the stuff before you choose a path, but after that you'll probably have to reflavor. I'd say you could reflavor Archfiend so that your domain is a laboratory. I think acid or poison are valid damage types for your domain, and it also lowers fort saves for enemies in it. The feats that let you have demon allies can just be lab or research assistants. There are plenty of demons and other monsters that are more about knowledge you could ask your GM to let you summon instead.

>>94214163
>"I want to RK on that creature"
>"Ok, what lores do you have?"
>"I have X Y Z"
>"Alright" * secret roll* "Ok, here's what you find out with your X lore/Sorry, you don't know anything/Ok, here's what you find out with your Y lore (lie)"

>>94214262
>I have untrained improvisation

>>94214317
Then skip all parts but the last

>>94214262
>recalling knowledge
>not a thaumaturge
disgusting.

>Rereading old thread
>Telandia got BLACKED
I beg your pardon?

>>94214539
Pretty sure they mentioned that in the Lost Omens book years ago

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>>94214539
Yup, she loves those African elves

>>94214044
>>94214099
In addition, Divine Access relies on the domains to pick deities to poach spells from.

The kicksharter got funded so we'll get to see copeposting in a few months.

>>94213133
Doesn't help that the crafting calling has the worst anathema.
>>94213297
>at least you're not kineticist though, they got absolutely fucked
They get legendary class DC which makes them a bit better than all martials(until commander releases, which has its own incompatibility issues with kineticist) at using certain mythic abilities. Not absolutely fucked, just mostly fucked.
>>94214634
>talon marks
yjk
>>94214977
Interested to see what they do with the game, though its a shame we won't be getting multiclassing or tengu.

>>94214977
They really thought they could pull an owlcat and get stretch goals by putting all the furry races behind it

>>94205984
>Ninja
honestly I've been trying to cook up a ninja archetype myself and I've run into what is probably the exact same problem paizo ran into: Ninja is too broad and you literally cannot please everyone with whatever you try to do with it. Some people believe ninja should be using tools and subterfuge in a more martial way, some people think ninja should be a kung fu wizard with a penchant for knives, and then theres a bunch of other camps and you realize you're just remaking wholesale by the time you've gotten a third of the ninja fantasy down.

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>>94214634
>>94214586
Are there any hot Inner Sea bitches left to marry?

>>94215582
>Are there any hot Inner Sea bitches left to marry?

>Cheliax
Pale and crazy bitch. Crumbling empire. Probably has been fucked by Hellhounds.
>Ravounel
Middle-aged Hilary Clinton presiding over, "What if San Francisco became a city state."
>Andoran
Not technically queen. Also black. The 2016 "rebellious" kind of black.
>Taldor
Young Hilary Clinton ruling over heckin' progressive modern multicultural nation. #LetThemIn to Qadira, it's time we let them fuck us once and for all (like the Taldan mare mounted by a Qadiran STALLION.)

>>94215617
What an awful post

>>94214634
Hot, I might have to draw them fucking in bird form and in elf form

>>94215582
Make your own with remastered alchemist, combine elixir and the HRT combined with healing potions.

>>94215665
>What an awful post
It's blunt, but accurate.

>>94214977
I really don't understand why they don't just do the story parts like a VN. It would look way better.

Is the new witch archetype worth using over normal witch?

>>94216292
Yeah

>>94216292
You lose:
>your patron's hex
>your patron's first level spell
>A feat if you don't care about witch's charge
>Some number of other witch feats for whichever of the new features you want
You gain:
>A first level spell of your choice
>Manifest Will(probably tolerable at least, not sure it beats Stoke the Heart)
>Witch's Charge 4 levels early
>access to better usage of Witch's Charge (Seneschal Spell letting you cast any spell instead of just touch)
>flexible +1 to saves against other spellcasters (that also applies to your Charge and anyone around them)
>converting damage types to spirit damage 1/hr (meh)
>the ability to spy on a location from anywhere on the same plane as long as you have been able to reach it for 6 seconds before(useful)
>the ability to talk to anyone you care about no matter what distance separates you (useful)
>an extra -2 max rank spell per day(given to your charge)
IMO Seneschal Spell is more interesting in a world where Familiar Conduit doesn't exist, though taking both Seneschal and Familiar Master does let you cast from 3 places at once.
Getting pseudo-Sending as a cantrip seems pretty neat, and... hm. This technically lets you use Psychic's amped message at any distance. Could be interesting.
>TL;DR
I think Seneschal Witch is interesting. Probably better in high-intrigue campaigns or if you want a specific Familiar ability without the spells for whatever reason.

>>94216511
Has anyone ever played one of these intrigue/social games everyone always assumes someone is doing? Feel like even the APs sold as this stick you in the most stereotypical trap filled dungeon crawls and camps of evil little monsters pretty quick.

>>94216803
You never had a noble party in ANY of your games?

>>94216803
>has anyone ever
Yes. There's a guy who let a horse fuck him in the ass, I'm pretty sure there's someone somewhere who has done something.
Is it common? Probably not, or we'd hear about it more.

>>94216812
The classic "I guess you could use this hidden weapon/illusion for this" scenario also feels incredibly rarer that people assume. Like I've been to two in the actual investigation and intrigue game Dark Heresy over years of playing back in the day.
>>94216817
People never helpfully point out new spells and perks that would probably help if you were gonna get fucked by a horse though? Bet that happens way more often than these international magical espionage scenarios.

>>94216866
I'm pretty sure Toughness and Diehard are mandatory for the getting-fucked-in-the-ass-by-a-horse build.

whats the earliest possible i can get a proper climb speed on a character in pathfinder second ed im tryin to be on the walls and shit

>>94217755
Off the top of my head, Awakened Animal (Climbing Animal Heritage) gives you a 20ft climb speed immediately at level 1 without costing a feat.

>>94217768
i will take that in2 consideration perhaps i will become The Monkey

>>94217755
You can just chug an elixir.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1966
Keep in mind a climb speed doesn't let you walk up every wall and across ceilings.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2349

>>94216817
>a guy
There are a lot
>a horse
It was way more than one horse
>Is it common? Probably not, or we'd hear about it more.
It's pretty common and well documented.

I want to play a support shield character, but I don't want to cast magic or rely too much on athletics maneuvers, what else can I do when I'm not defending?

Any neat Animist builds anybody has come up with yet?

>>94218690
Bon Mot, Dirty Trick, Demoralize, etc. Skill actions are pretty bread and butter for 'useful on a turn i don't need to do a lot' but not using athletics when your goal is to protect people is a little odd.

>>94217781
Theres also Vanara's Skillful Climber ancestry feat, which is level 5. Only 10 feet climb speed, but if you have Climbing Tail it becomes your full speed when climbing trees

>>94218175
By the square-cube law, shouldn't smaller characters have lower climb DCs?

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Unfortunately, we were supposed to take these enemies alive. The one time a player rolls a triple critical.

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>>94219264
We were supposed to take this one alive, too. What a time to be rolling natural 20s.

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>>94205339
currently running serpents skull, its pretty fun.
though book 2 has some moments that really make you wonder

Is there a way of getting disposable animal minions wihout magic? I'm constructing a beast tamer that uses and disposes of animals quickly and using magic doesn't quite fit the image.

>>94219264
>>94219284
Just the dice deciding to play a little funny prank :^)

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just realized that remaster eldritch archer has crossbow feats now, pic related alongside running reload. This quite literally invalidates both beastgunner and magus archetype if you want to play a spellslinger type character. Hell i'd argue it's the only way to play spellstrike-ish character with a reloading weapon

>>94219136
Yes but then they also travel at lower velocity, so the DC to climb 5ft should rationally be roughly the same.

Everyone keeps talking about how they like or dont like that the Egyptian gods are gone, but no one is mentioning the utter bullshit of getting rid of the hag gods. There is no good reason for that shit and they had to ignore that Gyronna and Mestama fucking hate each other to get rid of them. It makes zero fucking sense

>>94218904
There's the real easy skirmisher Gish setup where you take Liturgist, Witness to Ancient Battles, and their pseudo-power attack feat.
Otherwise most "builds" are just "take Liturgist and grab three spirits whose spells you want to cast every turn"
It's honestly kind of depressing how much better Liturgist is than every other subclass.

Im curious. What's /tg/'s favorite 2e kineticist build?

>>94220105
I like fire/earth tank.

>>94220105
Haven't played enough different kineticists to tell, but i'm currently on fire/wood Wrestler, and that's very fun aside from having to constantly interrupt the GM's turns to apply a small amount of fire damage.
Furnace form is even funnier when you can force people to take the damage from it by hugging them.

>>94220066
>It's honestly kind of depressing how much better Liturgist is than every other subclass.
The subclasses really feel like afterthoughts. Seer is worthless outside of some hyper specific haunted mansion campaign or something similar. Shaman is just the obligatory familiar one. It's functional but boring. Medium is almost real, but feels like it doesn't actually do anything. Relinquish Control doesn't do enough, and the buffs it gets at level 17 come way too late. And then there's Liturgist, which gets to be the best at everything that matters.

>>94220371
>it's functional
How? It's literally the standard familiar caster subclass with downside. It is the worst possible familiar caster you could play as.
>Seer is worthless outside of some hyper specific haunted mansion campaign or something similar.
Malevolence exists, so there's at least an AP for that.

>>94219583
Unfortunately, eldritch shot only works with crossbows and bows.

Offhand bandaid(s) of exemplar arch I'm considering if it doesn't get changed officially
>loses the really arbitrary martial prof, since that literally doesn't even matter
>your spark can only ever travel by using shift immanence, and always retreats inside you after sparking transcendence, even if you get a second ikon (so just "forced reload")
>any bonus spirit damage from a weapon ikon is capped at one effective weapon die (or alternatively, the bonus damage is all just changed to "1 with no scaling or other effects")
>shift immanence gets a once per minute frequency, and a level 6 feat to return it to 1 round, but it remains as the only way to "reload" your poached ikon(s)
Changes I want to make but don't think fit the goal of "nerfing the archetype", so I probably won't
>humble strikes as a level 4 feat, or alternatively as the dedication bonus with archetype ikon benefit at 4
>master in will save feat at 12 since as far as I know Exemplar hits legendary there still, and god damnit

>>94220464
>It's literally the standard familiar caster subclass with downside. It is the worst possible familiar caster you could play as.
It isn't though. The familiar coming back at daily prep like a witch familiar is already a powerful benefit that other familiar subclasses don't have. And the downside of losing one of your apparitions for the rest of the day if it dies isn't really as bad as I've seen people make it out to be, especially once you get to 3 of them.

>>94220550
arbalest works fine as a substitute to jezails or arquebus, because the alternative is being bound to the god awful beast guns

>>94220624
Oh yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to mention because I got excited to read that feat, and then read the eldritch shot requirements.
I seriously hope they just scrap the beastguns archetype and just make some kind of eldritch gunner from its corpse.

>>94220576
You lose access to a ton of spells, a focus spell, the avatar form, and the lore skills, and a focus point(circle of spirits), in addition to having less access to a resource used by later feats. That's a ridiculous and unnecessary downside you're trying to downplay. Sure, you have other apparitions- but now you don't have the ability to circle of spirits over to Reveler in Lost Glee for its unique focus spell because your Reveler died. And you can't cast Laughing Fit for the rest of the day.
And the upside isn't worth having, because unlike the Witch, you don't get any special abilities unique to your class aside from the minimal utility "your familiar can become incorporeal but can't really walk through walls" ability at level 17.
Compare this to other feats that disperse your apparition. Animist uses dispersing for quickening spells, not dying when they're killed, and temporary flight.
If your familiar dies, you reduce your access to all of those abilities by 1, and two of them are very powerful! And if you use the spirit that's your familiar to do one of those things, the familiar disappears. It's an incredibly shitty subclass.

>>94220105
The one I want to play is air earth sand stance with swash dedication for battledancer, so I can also rp as a woman again and piss off the whole table, but I'm the GM so it ain't happenin' bub.

>>94220105
Water/Wood into Earth and later Fire. Water skill for manouvers + Whirling Throw and Fire resistance for immunities. Battlefield control and support build with some blasting.

>>94220651
desu just include firearms in the eldritch archer archetype, beastgunner is literally just worse eldritch archer on account of not having mystic shot and the free action reload feat.

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>>94221188
Beastgunner has the Eldritch Shot ability, it's just called something else. Although the feats it has access to are generally weaker.
>no lvl 14 feat
>Call Gun is neat but situational
>Controlled Bullet counts MAP for some fucking reason
>no level 20 feat

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>>94221269
mb was talking about enchanting arrow, with a stun 1 rider on crit which the beastgunner does not have

>>94221269
Problem is that you have to use beastguns.

>>94220802
You aren't losing a focus spell or a focus point, because as shaman you aren't even taking circle of spirits in the first place. And the avatar form is a level 19 feature making it irrelevant for 90% of the game and a nonfactor for subclass choice.

>PF2e

Running Outlaws of Alkenstarr and one of my players is currently using a gunslinger and feels incredibly underpowered. How do I help him get out of this rut he's in and not make him feel like he's getting punished for playing a cowboy in the cowboy campaign? For context, he's lvl 3 and Way of the Drifter.

>>94220105
water/wood is an absolutely hilarious amount of healing

>>94218690
If you're willing to wait for the commander/ask your gm to let you use the playtest version it might be just what you're looking for.

>>94221427
>You aren't even taking circle of spirits in the first place
This line translates to, "You are deliberately fucking yourself over."

>>94221429
if he wants to go melee weapon and pistol he's going to have a bad time because even though drifter exists, gunslinger's singular proficiency and the way guns work makes it an incredibly awful experience
I have three suggestions:
>allow him to change to pistolero or sniper
>add an attachment for guns that just adds repeating to them, this eases the reload action cost
>houserule that if you make a ranged strike against an enemy that is adjacent to you, you only provoke attacks of opportunity from other enemies, not the one you're shooting at

>>94221429
>Way of the Drifter
Oh, ouch. My understanding is that they suffer from not being nearly as good at slapping things with their melee weapon as they are at shooting them, and getting hit in the face for using the main feature of their class.
>Let him apply his Singular Expertise to a single melee weapon group, so that he can actually hit things with his melee weapon.
>Let his Slinger's Reload ignore reactions so that he doesn't get stabbed in the face when he uses his class's main feature
Those are my takes.
>>94221517
>houserule that if you make a ranged strike against an enemy that is adjacent to you, you only provoke attacks of opportunity from other enemies, not the one you're shooting at
You don't even need to houserule that, just remind him that Sword and Pistol exists if he doesn't have it / forgets about it. Maybe give it to him for free.

>>94221557
>>Let him apply his Singular Expertise to a single melee weapon group, so that he can actually hit things with his melee weapon.
And let him get above 'trained' with his melee weapon, too. And scale the training. Is what I meant. I did not get enough sleep last night.

>>94221429
He needs to fiend for off-guard harder on his crit fishing class or he won't fish any crits.

>>94221429
Let his drifter reload avoid provoking reactions.

>>94221502
I think you're overvaluing it. Many builds will only ever need to cast and sustain their one focus spell per combat, and if they need to recast it the familiar can refocus you once per day.

>>94221517
>>94221557
>>94221584
>>94221659
>>94221663
Thanks a lot for the tips everyone, we'll see if we can't figure something out to make him feel good in combat. Definitely gonna use some of your ideas!

>>94211989
>Vibrant Thorns
yeah, a martial is going to spend so many turns casting vitality spells to bump the thorns damage above 1

>>94209514
>>94207705
I can't find the numbers for it, how do you calculate the starting wealth for cohorts, if you take Leadership at level seven?
Double that for Squire at level four, actually, I want to cover my bases.

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>monk dedication
>flurry of blows is locked to level 10
>dedication version has a 1d4 round cooldown
>ranger dedication
>can get twin takedown at level 4
>only difference between the two is flurry is unarmed only and twin takedown requires hunt prey
why does paizo hate monk

>>94222061
I mean, Lay on Hands exists.

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>>94222313
Technically they hate people who aren't monks.

>>94222341
>spend a focus point for lay on hands to get actual value from the focus point you already spent on vibrant thorns for a single turn
>unless your enemies miss their melee attacks with your shield and heavy armor

>>94222313
>>94222313
Just go into Spirit Warrior Dedication and eventually get the ability to share runes between your handwraps and one weapon AND4 have your "flurry" make the target off-guard to the 2nd attack

>>94219939
It's honestly a baffling decision, especially to get rid of all 3 at once, now who's supposed to fill the void left behind? It just feels like cutting content for the sake of it.

>>94223082
Unless the next AP is about hags and witches scrambling to ascend to godhood, it's just dumb.

>>94222719
Plus automatically get parry on your fist.

God I wish the TXCG writers would remake the monk themselves.

>>94203432
Need a hand with some ideas if anybody minds helping?

Im making a cloistered cleric of sarenrae (2e Remaster) who very much has the redemption aspect of his god. Any fun ideas for flaws or negative traits to give a cleric of sarenrae?

Also for anyone interested racially human/nephilim and his initial domain is sun and then fire.

>>94222436
>enemies
>miss
don't forget the +2 AC from lay on hands

If I kill myself tonight, I won't have to DM tomorrow...

>>94223577
The same is true if you kill your players instead.

>>94223577
Why wouldn't you want to GM? Are you retarded?

I there any way for people who aren't clerics to buff their heal spells? Maybe a feat or feat chain I missed?

>>94223874
Sorcerers get to increase both their damage and healing by spell level when casting from their spellslots, no feat required. The new Animist has a level 1 feat that gives them a stance that does the same thing.

>>94223874
Life oracles can... Wait, no they can't anymore.
Does granting temp hp count?

Does the archive of nethys have all the rituals? There seems to be very few of them, and most of them seem to be either evil or impossible for a level 4 character. In this case i’m talking about the rank 1 and 2 rituals of course

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>>94223992
AoN is probably missing these rituals from PC2, as well as any rituals that are coming out in War of the Immortals, and any other book they haven't updated for because it updates very slowly.

>>94224167
>War of Immortals
I actually forgot that existed, are there pdfs of it out there?

>>94224198
Yeah, they're floating around. It's coming out in 8 days. Someone uploaded a copy on catbox and put it in here recently, but I'm not stupid enough to do that. Surely someone else will post it now that you've asked, though.

>>94224207
I found that catbox link in the archives, but it’s unsurprisingly already been nuked.

It’s still funny to me how, at least with just the first two players guides, someone getting the ritualist archetype would need to choose two of the following:
>Animate objects
>Be a necromancer
>Sanctify a place
>Perform a marriage
>Perform brainwashing
This is a list of beginning rituals conjured by the insane

Animist doesn't seem especially powerful but it at least looks fun to play and build, they cooked with the feats a little, it doesn't just feel like generic caster #12.

>>94222719
I considered that but I want to use it for Druid's untamed forms (because you can use flurry with the unarmed strikes) but since they don't hold a weapon, then you can't do it
it's between monk or barbarian honestly, (already took fighter for reactive) (FA game btw)

>>94224657
If they'd had half the fun and flavor with the other casters, there wouldn't be any complaints about casters in this system.
Screw generic reach spell, give me more "this reach spell pulls your target". "this reach spell pushes your target". "this reach spell reaches even further." etc.

>>94224847
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

I don't think I could ever convince myself to play a druid in 2e because their feats are universally boring and generic or they exist to prop up a circle but feel like they should just be automatic features of that.

I think the good bloodlines and patrons of remastered sorcerers and witches are shining examples of what exactly you can do to make a caster fun and effective.

>>94222313
Hunt Prey on Twin Takedown is a lot more commitment than you think. Flurry of Blows is such a good option because the low commitment and how much it can add to damage lets Monk properly skirmish and leverage their high AC. Twin Takedown requiring an action to setup means you only get the action advantage and savings in the next round. It's why despite being unchanged and around since the beginning, no one really thought up Fighter + Ranger MC builds. Double Slice pays all its difference at once and you don't get any form of utility out of Hunt Prey with your poor skill scaling and selections.

The 1d4 cooldown is kind of a shitty change and approach to balance, but it still doesn't change how valuable Flurry truly is to anyone that has it. It's why I love Twisting Tree Magus so much, Spinning Staff is such great value for its cost.

>>94224873
I don't exactly blame Paizo for struggling with caster feats for so long (cough cough Wizard), especially with Druid being a pretty stuff package to begin with. Still, I really do hope LO: Rival Academies buff up all casters to the standard Witch, Sorcerer, and Animist are leading. They don't have to be powerful fats, but they should be good thematic ways to indulge in their roles.

Are there any compelling reasons to play a witch over a sorcerer?

>>94225045
Yeah sorcerers are boring. "My granddad saw a unicorn and now I can do spells. Yeah they just sort of happen I don't know." Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

>>94225045
I don't think there are any fantastic options for an occult sorc, they're fine but I'd play an angel, demon or imperial blooded character of the class any day. But resentment is widely well-loved and for good reason. You're living up to your full potential as an occult caster on witch while an occult sorc is just middle of the road.

>>94224972
I think the fact that dedication flurry is purely unarmed only is enough of a balance, I'm even fine with it being level 100
it's the 1d4 cooldown that is retarded
meanwhile champ dedication you basically get the whole class no restrictions have fun

>>94224207
Did they fix kitsune yet?

>>94225045
If you want a pet that's going to die very easily, having a familiar-focused class is the way to go!

>>94225484
It's okay they come back

>>94225447
...in war of the immortals?

>>94225495
The next day, sure. Until then enjoy missing the most compelling reason to play a witch.

>>94225517
Isn't that the asian theme one? I don't keep with new books

>>94225529
No. That's the mythic book.

>>94225447
In the tian xia book? Not especially.

>2e
Aside from Alkenstar Ice Wine, are there any alcohols with unique effects? Wanted to drop a quirky consumable item for my players.

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>Special: You can't select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from this archetype.

Why does this rule exist? As far as I can tell, by RAW pic related is legal (although time consuming) as you only need to take 2 feats of your first archetype, you don't need to have them to take your second archetype, like some other normal chain feats. Would it be simpler to just limit the number of dedications you can take per level to 1?

>>94225045
They use two different stats for one, so they can fill different secondary roles. That said, Witch has the worse casting stat and the worst spellcaster type (prepared + known spells). The easiest way is to break it down by spell list since they add different things to each one which may or may not make up for that.
Arcane Sorcerer
Occult Witch
Primal Either
Divine Sorcerer

The Sorcerer only wins in Divine because of adding Dangerous Sorcery to all their spells after the remaster. Both are very valid. I'll also note Arcane Witch does get access to some good healing early on through a focus spell, which is the major weakness of the Arcane list.

>>94225733
are you retarded?

>>94225891
Maybe, that's why I'm fucking asking

>>94225905
>When retraining, you generally can't make choices you couldn't make when you selected the original option.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2447

>>94225891
I think he's right. Or, at least, the language doesn't handle this particularly fucky rules abuse.

>Take Dedication [A]: Check
>Take two feats from it: Each of those require that you have [A]. Check.
>Take Dedication [B]: This requires that you have [A], plus two feats from the [A] archetype. You do. Check.
>Retrain the two feats from Dedication A.

At this point you no longer meet the requirements to, quote: "select a different dedication feat until you complete your dedication by taking two other feats from your current archetype." However, I think what Anon's arguing is, he already selected it back when he DID meet that requirement. Now he just ~~has~~ it. The prerequisites don't list "meeting all the requirements to select a new dedication". There's no rule about just having it. Even if it's a very convoluted, dumb rules interaction, I can't point to where he's wrong. It's an interesting loophole, although good luck finding a GM that OKs it.

>>94225940
The rules are pretty clear.
>When retraining, you generally can't make choices you couldn't make when you selected the original option.
You can't choose to retrain F1D1 to D2 because you wouldn't have been able to take D2 at that level due to not meeting the two feat requirement.
You definitely can't take a third dedication while still not having two feats from the first.

>>94225977
There's also the following from the same page:
>If you cease to meet the prerequisites for an ability due to retraining, you can't use that ability.
So even if it did work, nothing past the first dedication would function.

>>94225977
This line of thinking only applies if trying to retrain an archetype feat into a new dedication feat directly. It does not apply if you retrain into a normal class feat instead.

>>94225987
Archetype dedication rules aren't exactly prerequisites, which I think is the core of the issue. The prerequisite restriction is supposed to swat this down, but doesn't.

>>94225084
>>94225845
Why does Occult Witch beat out Occult Sorcerer? Is The Resentment better than the entire Sorcerer class chassis?

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>>94226005
>It does not apply if you retrain into a normal class feat instead
Let's say in example 2 you took Dedication 2 at level 10, then retrained F1D1 for a class feat.
D2 would stop functioning immediately because you fail to meet its prerequisite.
>Archetype dedication rules aren't exactly prerequisites
They are prerequisites. They're being applied to every other archetype feat by that rule because you took a dedication. They're not listed in the 'prerequisites' line because that'd be physically impossible.
If you disingenuously interpret 'prerequisites' as 'everything physically present in the prerequisites line', it works... until it makes contact with any GM, because it's exceedingly obvious that this isn't how dedications work.

>>94226045
It is, because they put a lot of thought into making it the best debuffer in the game. Evil Eye is a Will save with no traits targeted sickened, the best debuff in the game, and only one action. The familiar ability really doesn't come online until 5 when you get spells like Slow, but only becomes more powerful with levels. Spirit Familiar at 8 is when the class gets another huge power boost, another Will save with no traits, but this one does damage and heals. It can also be used once every fight because it only has a 10 minute cooldown, and automatically scales its damage at the same rate as casting a Fireball with your second highest spell slot. That and Evil Eye alone make targeting Will much less painful since most of those spells either don't do damage, have traits that prevent them from being widely applicable, or have shitty targeting.

Then they gave them Patron's Puppet, which let's you use your familiar to extend debuffs out of turn. Normally you can't move and debuff, then extend the debuff before it runs out. PP lets you extend it before your turn, so the debuff doesn't run out at its normal time. You can also use it to use Spirit Familiar for a focus point, letting you use your entire turn on non-familiar actions like another damage spell, moving, sustaining, etc..

>>94226425
Does Resentment Seneschal lose power compared to a regular Resentment Witch?

>>94226451
I don't know all the details, but it just replaces the initial lesson, right? So it should be identical except without Evil Eye. Evil Eye is really strong, probably the best hex cantrip. So, probably yes, but I imagine it's fine unless the Seneschal cantrip is really bad. The main thing is you need the cantrip to be easily usable so you can use a hex without spending a focus point.

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>>94226507
In that case, I think Seneschal works out pretty well considering their cantrip isn't too shabby.

If I want to play a strength kineticist that uses an actual weapon and armor instead of weapon infusion and armor impulse, how can I go about it? And yes, I know I'm handicapped myself.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1g9vlee/warden_the_settingagnostic_pathfinder_2e_hack_is/

Someone turned Pathfinder 2e into a setting-agnostic, classless game.

>>94227162
Kineticist archetype
>I'm handicapped
This was obvious

On a more serious note, what do you want from your character concept?

>>94227181
Dwarf earth mage with as few defense options as possible, be a blacksmith and use real weapons and armor. I know earh magic is mostly control or damage, so I'm fine with being either.

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Let's turn those frowns upside down! What are some of the lore updates in Lost Omens that you enjoy? Are there any NPCs from the latest APs that are endearing? C'mon, let's get some positivity!

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>looking over Calling anathemas in WoI
>see this
Damn, bro. How much downtime do they expect people to have? I guess you can get around it at low levels with backstory but this seems really harsh with the current crafting rules.

>>94227168
Relevant to my interests. Thanks for the link.

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>>94227215
There is nothing for me to be positive about in the lore changes because I don't set anything in Galorion and have no strong feelings one way or the other.

I do hope the Exemplar Archetype is an indication that Paizo plans go frontload dedications a little more. Not as much as they have for Exemplar but the fact that they're normally dead feats got stale a long time ago, so even Exemplar being blatantly overloaded is kind of a nice change.

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>be barbarian
>get pic related through exemplar dedication
>use greatsword
>deal 1d12+4+2 with a -2 on the second attack roll
this is literally better power attack lol

>>94227340
>be barbarian
>ask for exemplar archetype
>GM tells me to fuck off
>too sad to rage now :(

I'm running Kingmaker 2e and my players are about to enter Armag's Tomb. The place is basically a temple to Gorum where the players must face a series of challenges (test of strength, test of endurance, etc.) to move forward, but they are pretty lame as written in the book. Some are even designed in a way that doesn't make any sense in relation to Gorum. They include things like pushing boulders, rotating a wheel or moving through an unstable floor.

Any ideas on how to spice them up? Or ideas on Gorum-related skill challenges.

2e familiars baffle me, a bunch of their selectable abilities feel like shit you should be just getting free, and compete with actually meaningful choices, while they're giga fragile and only useful for things that feel like jank rule exploits. Maybe I'm just too lazy to deal with them as anything but funny little rp scrunkos or something, I dunno, I would rather drawing an item and using it as alchemist not summon people telling me to do this shit to "fix" it.

>>94228238
It might be a little uncreative and/or too similar to the rest of the game, but the most Gorum-y type of 'trial' would just be a straight combat encounter in a big arena against ancient guardians of undead/golems. Fill it with spike pits and spinning death wheels and conveniently placed spike racks where enemies stand in perfect kicking distance.

>>94228238
Do the stick your arm in the hole challenge from Flash Gordon.
Will save against fear, failure means fort save or get exploded by poison.

>>94228238
Let's look at his 2e deity entry.
>Edicts: attain victory in fair combat, push your limits, wear armor in combat
>Anathema: kill prisoners or surrendering foes, prevent conflict through negotiation, win a battle through underhanded tactics or indirect magic
>Areas of Concern battle, strength, and weapons
Riddles seem right out, but there could be interesting situations/puzzles related to these.
>Attain victory in fair combat
A theoretical puzzle based on this could see people having to leverage their advantages in combat. Various statues depicting battles, and you have to pick the right weapon for the right situation, i.e. a spear to fight a sword, a crossbow to fight armor, a greataxe vs a shield. Maybe have a plethora of 'answers' (mundane weapons laying in the chamber). This could be solved with a Warfare Lore check, or something less specific like Crafting / Religion(harder dc) if the players can't figure it out / don't want to bother with it.
You could also just have them fight manifestations of Gorum's past champions if they can't solve it. Defeating them in an up-front fight seems like it'd fit 'attain victory in fair combat'.
>Push your limits
This one would absolutely be an extensive obstacle course with time pressure on it, with 'push your limits' engraved above the door. Deadly traps, dangerous monsters, and the rising water / deadly spike wall chasing them forces them to 'push their limits' by making it so they only get so much time to rest between battles. I want to suggest making it easier if they go faster, but I feel like it's more 'Gorum' if you make it slightly harder because he wants to make it a fair fight / challenge. You could even grant them a boon at the end if they pushed their limits hard enough.
If you don't want to plan out the entire course(it'd basically be its own dungeon based on how i described it), you could reduce it to some number of athletics/acrobatics checks and saving throws, or use the Chase subsystem.

Hey; guys.

Been experimenting eith Magus, and finding it to mostly just be a gimped wizard. The class abilities feel a little too laborious to use.

Are there other gish-types in 2e that actually work? I'm familiar with warpeiest, but I understand that their strength is mostly just being good earlier than others?

>>94228477
Could have a combat where the golem/spirit yields at the last moment. If the player strikes them down then they fail the trial.

Although I'm not sure how you avoid this feeling like a gotcha.

>>94228895
Animist (Liturgist)

>>94228895
Magus is a separate class from Wizard. A magus is not a wizard with melee To Hit. Or a Fighter with spells. Its a unique class with unique abilities that plays as a sui generis thing.

You can do a "classic" gish by taking a caster archetype as a martial. Champion can take domain spells via class feats and has dead levels for archetyping into other things.

>>94228895
What kind of magus did you play, what was the build you went for?

>>94228908
>Although I'm not sure how you avoid this feeling like a gotcha.
It's much less of a gotcha if the players understand Gorum's edicts/anathema/etc going in, which also works with the room's challenge being, "Walk as Our Lord In Iron would."

>>94228895
Sometime next year(or the next), Magus might get some actual remastering. The simplest fix for it is to change Arcane Cascade into a free action, once per round, ability, with Requirement of Cast A Spell being the last action you did, and finally kicking the stance trait into the dumpster where it belongs.

Hopefully, it gets just a little more than that. I'm hoping it gets some serious mechanics for doing Spellstrike without provoking other than janky things like reach weapons or Starlit Span.

I'm starting to think Reactive Strike in its current form was a mistake.

>>94229500
Nah, the problem is there not being enough counterplay to deal with Reactive Strike. There should be spells that don't trigger is but deal smaller damage, more ways to ignore it or not have your action disrupted.
Steady Spellcasting is pathetic and should have been buffed tremendously in the remaster.

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Alchemist's Healing Bomb should actually be "Elixir Bomb", allowing it to apply any beneficial elixir, and should just automatically hit a willing ally with no splash effect. Also Chirurgeon should get it for free.

>>94229724
>>94229500
I think the biggest problem is how uniquely strong the trip->reactive strike combo is, where the only counterplay is 'skip your turn' and so trip becomes *essentially* an additional free attack.
IMO you should be able to do a little roll to move 5-feet while prone without provoking a reaction. Maybe make an acrobatics check against them or something.

>>94229771
>skip
The counterplay is to stay prone and attack at a -2 penalty.

>>94229847
That's not really counterplay.

>>94229853
Your idea was "skip your turn". Just staying prone minimizes losses.

>>94229771
>IMO you should be able to do a little roll to move 5-feet while prone without provoking a reaction
Unless you're playing with a party of 4 fighters, by the time the other shitty martials get their reactive strikes every monster has reach.

>>94229894
Yeah, fighting things with 15 reach and reactive strike is a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

How would you fix Summon Creature spells in 2e?
Increase the level of monster past 3rd rank by 1? 2?
Spend 2 actions to grant 3 actions to the creature as base functionality?
Give them 1 action per turn without spending an action to command?

>>94230022
make it so the summon scaling is always character level -2 instead of character level -3 or lower. easy, fixed.
You're telling me I can turn into the avatar of my god and tear open gates to other planes, but I can't summon an undead that would be anything remotely approaching a threat to my enemies?

>>94230236
>level -2 instead of character level -3
At spell ranks 1-2 summoning is basically fine imo. The issue is higher rank spells where with a max-rank spell slot, summons are always 4-5 levels lower than character level.

>>94203432
I am the only one though disappointed at the Inquisitor being regulated to a ranger archetype Does still think the archetype itself is decent?

How good are Path of Iron and Echoing Violence on a monk? Wondering if with FA there are benefits to taking the Martial Artist archetype as a monk

>>94231101
It looks janky, like it might mathematically end up being on-par under ideal circumstances, maybe, but with the way its core features are designed, and with the amount of time spent doing set up that you can whiff completely on a miss, it looks like it'll be really frustrating to play.

Have you ever started working on homebrew content, kept getting more and more ideas and adding more and more things, until it becomes a bigger project but then stop when you're 75% through the thing because you realize you don't know what you're doing/don't know how to best do the next parts, so you end up stalling out and not touching the document you were working on for several months?

>>94231101
If everything goes perfectly for it, it looks pretty strong, but if literally anything hiccups by the tiniest bit it looks completely miserable and like I would rather play a Precision Ranger that takes Gravity Weapon and archetypes cleric or blessed one for fewer action cost and mostly the same result.

It has a busted reaction at 8, but that doesn't fix the fact its core focus spell is just kind of ass design.

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>>94229853
It is important to remember a Prone creature can always hunker down and negate the -2 AC penalty for a round. You never need to do nothing when you get knocked down near an AoO asshat, just reconsider what's worth the price. The balance between Trip and Grapple as maneuvers comes down to who gets more restricted out of the bargain, and many creatures can afford to take it more than the players.

It's a shame Kip Up is so underrated thanks to how little classes get out of Acrobatics. It really does avoid a lot of the issues on the player end.

>>94231101
It was always doomed to be a Class Archetype, the original Inquisitor was just way too wide a class while also stepping on basically every other 3/4th-Caster's toes for no good reason.
The Vindicator CA is actually pretty damn good with the massive caveat that its initial Focus Spell is TERRIBLE. One of the spells of all time right there. You can ignore it and still get a lot of oomph, especially with you getting Domain Initiate or your other Warden Spells, so just treat it as a bonus Focus Point.

>>94231211 and >>94231631 are running on the assumption that a Vindicator would spend its entire turn trying to set up Vindicator's Mark over *just use Gravity Weapon for +2 to damage and call it a day*.

>>94232019
Taking cover (not called Hunker Down) reduces the penalty only for ranged attacks, not for melee attacks.

>>94228895
> and finding it to mostly just be a gimped wizard
And just because this triggered my Magus autism, remember the core ethos of Magus
>"You're not playing a Fighter."
>"You're not playing a Wizard."
>"You're not playing a Fighter + Wizard".
>"You are a Magus."

Your strengths come up to being a frontliner/skirmisher that can inflict a lot of elemental damage. If you are trying to just treat it as being a Wizard that can switch-hit, or a Fighter with spellcasting, you will never see the appeal.

>Are there other gish-types in 2e that actually work?
Liturgist Animist with the Battle Apparition seems to be the best one for a good while.
Warrior Bard gives itself a good rotation and buffs for everyone. Grab some Medium Armor with Armor Training and you can even work with the 30ft range of Dirge of Doom.
I feel like Draconic Sorcerer has a lot of untapped potential, especially with Dragonblooded Scales + Desecrator Champion MC.
Bloodrager CA is somewhat more closer to a Striker + Spellcaster build than Magus. While it doesn't get Spellstrike, always getting Rage damage on spell attack failures + Hematocritical easily matches up.

>>94232085
Nope, Take Cover always grant you cover.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2307
Your GM might fight you with the idea about it should be easier, but since you are merely cancelling out the off-guard penalty, not flipping it, don't think he can complain.

>>94232123
*still easy to hit you while you are right there

>>94232123
>Nope, Take Cover always grant you cover.
>https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2307
>Your GM might fight you with the idea about it should be easier, but since you are merely cancelling out the off-guard penalty, not flipping it, don't think he can complain.

Specific trumps general. The Prone rules outright state that taking cover only grants the bonus against ranged attacks.

>>94232155
The way this is worded reads it that it is a possible option, not a replacement for how Take Cover works, especially since the idea is that it's a way to gain Greater Cover from any position (given how rare Greater Cover is to begin with). Take Cover already has "or you are prone" as a requirement option.

And again, you are only negating the -2 to AC with Taking Cover normally, since you still are off-guard. The Greater Cover you get from hunkerin' down still only adds up to +2 to ranged attacks, not +4. The entire reason this is like this is to make sure sniper duels are functional thing and not just a more awkward ranged encounter.

>>94232183
And now that I think about it, even if you are 100% correct and you can't use Take Cover to help...
You can just use a Shield.
Won't help most monsters but Shields can keep you alive while you stand up.

>>94232019
forgive me for wanting the subclass's main focus spell it gets as part of its edge to be more its main gimmick than the focus spell literally every Ranger ever can use I guess

>>94232241
Again, not defending Vindicator's Mark or the design of it, but given the big idea is that you are getting more damage on your strikes while the mark is up, it does seem goofy to deal with it all that when you get most of what you using with standard Ranger feats/features.

Besides, Judgment is more the real deal Inquisitor mark, with Weakness stacking with damage boosts.

>>94232308
nta, but the secret sauce about vindicator seems to be that it's really fucking good with Eldritch Archer, kinda across the board.

>>94232532
I don't...see the combo?
You can't Hunt Prey and Eldritch Shot in the same turn. Even if you Hunt Prey out of combat, you still don't get the bonus to hit with Vindication Edge because you still are attacking. Vindicator's Mark in the combo don't give its effects until it lands, so you don't get the extra damage. And even with the spell attack domain spells, you still running off standard Ranger accuracy on your Eldritch Shots and the point of the Edge is to bump up the accuracy of your divine spells to the same level as your weapons.
They work together, but just as much as any other gish build, maybe less thanks to Hunt Prey delaying your Eldritch Shot spam.

>>94229724
Melee spells like Gouging Claw and Ignition, or anything touch range shouldn't provoke. You don't even have to take the manipulate trait off, just state it doesn't provoke reactions. It also disproportionately affects casters like a lot of things in the fucking game, and that should be softened just in general. I'd actually test having it only disrupt movement and not spells.

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>>94219419
Kudos to you, it's a great adventure overall if you work a little with Saventh-Yhi and make it into a sandbox for your group to explore. Make alliances, unite against those pesky apes, have the Gorilla King scare everyone with his scheduled visit in part 4. I made the Rakshasha on the island with the Serpentfolk into a lazy deviant that invited my party into a drug fuelled orgy and they started exporting hallucinogenic drugs from some spiders in the temple district if I remember correctly. The factions that are exploring the city (Pirates, Aspis consortium, Mantis assassins etc) are also great to add some intrigue, my players chose to be sponsored by the Aspis consortium after watching the Pathfinder society warehouse burn down in part 2 and not lifting a finger to help like they were supposed to.

My group had a great fun with it, I agree that part 2 is kinda weird but its just some railroading to get you to the rest of the adventure. Shame the group splintered a little into part 5 but who knows, maybe we'll finish it some day, that underground city had some neat dungeons, especially that serpentfolk fortress.

>>94221269
Actually, Controlled Bullet only counts MAP after all the strikes.

I'm growing increasingly worried about how anemic these magic items are.
Stuff like "Choker of Elocution". A 6th (sixth!) level item gives +1 Society and one extra language. What the hell?
I thought I was going to have to make up an absurd item as example to make a point but I didnt even have to
Actually, what I'm really worried about is how the "balance" boogieman seem to neuter the wonder of fantasy in general, not just items

I just hope my players dont realize it's all dress up and no substance

>>94234666
That's actually fairly potent for a 6th-Level magic item. The average AP would definitely trip up a party with a Comprehend Language-check scenario at least once, and it provides some bonuses against Deafened flat checks.

For a somewhat equivalent 1e item (by price, not character Level, since the Wealth table is easier to compare between the editions), the Gloves of Larceny just provided a +5 competence bonus to just Sleight of Hand checks.

>>94232019
>The Vindicator CA is actually pretty damn good
Other than the reaction, what about it is "pretty damn good"?
Spamming Gravity Weapon has 0 interaction with the rest of the subclass. You're basically Precision but worse at that point.

>>94232308
>Besides, Judgment is more the real deal Inquisitor mark, with Weakness stacking with damage boosts.
Judgment is at least 1 action, but you're still fishing for a failure against one enemy per focus point (on a Fort save, no less) on a class that is at best +1 over caster DC, and more often either +0 or -1. I'm also not going to wait until level 10 for a build to get good while having to ignore its main features otherwise.

>>94235918
Oh, and I forgot to mention Judgment has to target your prey, so if your prey dies that's mandatory 2 actions to get it back up (which is, sure, better than 3 with Mark, but that's not saying much). And since we're assuming you already put Gravity Weapon up, you can only use Judgment on two enemies per encounter.

>>94232308
>actually this subclass is really good if you just get to level 10 to use a completely different focus spell than the one you start with that telegraphs being your bread and butter
I agree that judgement is a better focus spell, but I need you to understand that makes me think even less of this class archetype. I think outwit is kind of dogshit and should have been either folded into base Ranger or gotten early Master Monster Hunter built in, but it at least has full effect when I hit the ground at level 1 and doesn't require 2-3 times as much setup.

>>94235983
>>94235918
>>94235975
>while having to ignore its main features
The key to my point, even if Vindicator's Mark WAS GOOD, is that Inquisitor has never been about stacking all the damage all the time. An inquisitor was so wide in 1e because it needed to be good at *being a fucking inquisitor*, which Vindicator does quite well within its restraints. Getting Instructive Strike and Thorough Research lets you properly leverage Ranger's goal of researching their prey and granting your party information without needing to Hunt Prey. Domain Initiate lets you get great Focus Spells like Fire Ray, Winter Bolt, Cry of Destruction, Savor the Sting, Overstuff, Touch of Obedience, etc. And that's just the attacks, there's plenty of supportive spells that complement a Ranger's playstyle like Athletic Rush or Agile Feet or Sudden Shift. All these on top of your normal selection of Warden Spells -- which does amount to just Gravity Weapon most of the time but HotW did add some fun stuff.
Trying to judge Vindicator on just how well it can pull of its stupid spell combo is silly. Inquisitors weren't cool because they were some kings of damage, they were cool because they had a lot of ways to be built and support the team effectively, which is what I think Vindicator does well. Vindicator's Mark is just false advertising, a marking class isn't ALL about what the mark can do (especially when it isn't even your actual fucking mark). It isn't that I don't want a good VM spell, it just you are getting the wrong picture.

This isn't worse magic Precision Ranger.
This is better Outwit, trading out defense for much wider utility and combo potential.

>>94235975
oh cause I also forgot about this...
just your Judgment on the higher-priority target.
Unless you are killing 2 of the exact same foe and NEED them both dead at the same time, just save the combo for when you know it would be at its most effective?

>>94236148
>which Vindicator does quite well within its restraints.
"within its restraints" is doing a lot of work here.

>Instructive Strike and Thorough Research
Out of all the classes that are signalled as having RK as part of their niche, ranger is probably the worst-suited for it, and these don't really help. Bard starts with an omni-lore; rogue and investigator can, at least, use their skill increases to get a respectable spread of knowledge proficiency; and thaumaturge is thaumaturge.

Speaking of thaumaturge, I'm not really seeing what vindicator does that thaumaturge can't do better.

>Domain Initiate
The thing you can get from normal archetyping?

>>94236181
Sure. Or you could be any other edge or class and get your damage on every enemy in the fight.
Encounters with 3 (or more) of the same foe aren't exactly uncommon.