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Set Condition One throughout the fleet

Can't wait for IKEO to figure out some contrived way to destroy the vast majority of the Snow Raven warship fleet.

>>94223988
They'll give it to the Wolves as a tithe to Alaric. Watch.

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>>94223971
>This is McKenna Actual

>>94223988
>>94223997
They'll all go off to fight the bears because *mumble mumble* and get Lev II'd. Then Alaric will receive the remaining ships as a tithe.

>>94224010
Or they'll get shelacked by the Combine or something. Whatever the reason, it'll be incredibly stupid and insult your intelligence.

>>94224021
>The Combine winning against clanners without outside help.
Don't give me that kind of hope, anon.

>>94224010
I'm pretty sure the Lev will get destroyed in the opening act of the new Combine/Ghost Bear war by a DEST team sneaking nukes aboard.

>>94223965
That little spherical escort isn't a dropship is it? It looks like one of the General Products hulls.

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>>94224025
It would be sweet. Unfortunately, they have multiple Lev III's now too.

>>94224038
That won't stop a writing team who are hell bent on DropShips getting removed from the setting.

>>94224036
Probably one of those Luthien-style Naval Laser stations/

>>94224025
We've already lost the other fucking two. What's the point of them even existing if they never fucking get used?

>>94224043
>DropShips
*WarShips, my brain is dumb and bad today apparently

>>94224049
To give you hope, so we can take it away.

>>94224003
That picture makes me think each Clan should have way more WarShips than they do.

>>94224080
They actually put a bunch in mothballs, which is crazy. Also where the Society picked up some.

>>94224086
>clans' very first ever military operation involved yoinking as many parked ships as possible
>get so complacent they let the exact same thing happen to them
it rhymes

>>94224097
sorry, didn't mean to leave that on it was just for the gag

>>94224086
That's pretty sensible, I think, but I would imagine that if you're going to reactivate them for anything, it would be for The Return

>>94224049
The point is to make everyone who even vaguely understands warship construction rules disgusted. The Leviathan II is the warship equivalent of a 5/8/8 max armor, standard engine, heat neutral, tarcomped cLPL boat.

>>94224102
They knew from the Goons that the IS didn't have any active warship fleets (other than the hidden C* ones), so the fact they brought Warships at all is kind of interesting.

>>94224116
That's what mechs ought to be anyway, so what's the problem with a warship that does that? There is never a valid excuse for suboptimal mechanical design.

>>94224116
Yet somehow the Lev III is worse.

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>>94224049
>What's the point of them even existing if they never fucking get used?

Dying against the Blakists at Dieron and Terra in the two biggest naval battles of the last 300 years was pretty fucking sweet really. Except the one dying outside the O'Neil Yards to a jumpscare maybe.

>>94224116
Which is fine, because there was only one. WarShips should be powerful if there's only like 20 of them in the entirety of explored space.

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>>94223971
youtube.com/watch?v=lEhlAA85_tY

Reposting >>94224159 because of course I don't notice the thread hitting bumplimit.

>>94223988
>>94223997
Considering how the rest of the ilClan is going I wouldn't be surprised, but I do hold out hope that the Ravens side with whoever ends up fighting against the Wolfs.

>>94224272
The designs are right for the setting details. It's more important for the minis to look accurate to the setting than it is for them to be visually exciting.

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Waiting on the Ravens to make Space Operations Adaptation for BattleMechs.

>>94224306
>Jump Jets
>Liquid Storage for extra reaction mass for jump jets
>HarJel system
Done

>>94224293
>It's more important for the minis to look accurate to the setting than it is for them to be visually exciting.
If that was true then explain the Shimseen.

>>94224366
Old models weren't accurate to the setting

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What are your armchair general opinions about Battletech's major powers? Bonus points if they're not just
>build the good mechs and not the bad mechs
>meritocratic officers please?
>genocide my least favorite faction immediately

Mine: in a world with jumpships and drop-ships as a bottle neck fitting more mechs into bays is a huge advantage on the offensive. The Locust, Jackalope and Sarath are not enough, we need more compact, stackable mechs.

>>94224468
Giving Compact Mech to anything beyond the Locust was a mistake

>>94224468
I love the Clans and I want them to do well in the setting, but they're kinda retarded, but that chronic retardation is what gives them their character. It's a constant balance of retarded enough to be interesting and not so retarded that they all die.

They have not walked that balance well.

>>94224483
From a game balance perspective absolutely, but within the armchair general hypothetical I'm aiming to win, not make the setting good to play in.
>>94224486
Yeah, I almost said "have clan advantages without clan retardation" as one of the gimme points. I think that's really one of the win buttons for some eras of the setting, the non-retarded clan with good resources can conquer a big chunk of the inner sphere in one go and then the rest after a period to incorporate the people and industry.

>>94224540
The most successful Clans are the least retarded. The most retarded Clans are dead. I don't like that kind of proportionally inverse relationship.

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>>94224559
Blood Spirits had really sensible mech construction doctrine but they were too poor and unpopular to stop getting bullied to death. Too bad, I liked their mechs.

>>94223971
Unironically the reason I learned how BT space combat works.

>>94224025
>dracs
>being competent
>having plot relevance
>doing anything that hurts the bears
Haha, no.

>>94224439
They defined the setting. Kill yourself, zoomer. Nobody will miss you.

>>94224468
>What are your armchair general opinions about Battletech's major powers?
There is no valid reason that the Free Worlds League would not have completely destroyed the setting and conquered the Inner Sphere around 3064-5. Nobody could have stopped them, including the invading Clans, until the Bear completed their Lev II refits around 3070.
>Also my least favorite faction should not be genocided. <ALL> other factions but my favorite faction should be genocided.

>>94224116
It's not. It's worse.

Leviathan IIs and IIIs are like if everything in the game is optimised and built to the level of a 3025 Javelin for mass and firepower, maximum, and then you threw the Hellstar into the resulting meta.

It's an out of context problem that can literally slaughter entire fleets at a time while facetanking entire fleets at a time.

>>94224306
All of the U configurations that aren't for underwater use are for space use.

>>94224603
Why do they even exist anyway? Who approved 1 faction getting the literal best warships AND dropships AND clantech AND never losing major fight?

>>94224612
Me

I approved that

>>94224598
>Free Worlds League solos the verse in 3064
Say more, from talking about the Lev II refits I assume it has to do with their space assets.

>>94224612
I'm pretty sure the Lev thing happened because literally nobody else involved in designs knows or cares about warships at all, so all the rest are practically built on autopilot and have so much wasted tonnage that it's almost not even funny anymore, but the Leviathan was built by someone actually using the rules who either still didn't really know what they were doing, or really really knew what they were doing and were the kind of person who doesn't understand why everyone else isn't bringing customs optimized to win at all costs to this casual pickup game.

>>94224468
The Clans should've gone harder on their specific gene angle. I should be able to tell apart Clanners and which Clan they hail from visually and they kinda do that with the phenotypes but it's only limited to their job in the Clan rather than the Clan itself. Also Jags having the highest amount of blacks.
The IS and Periphery have the multicultural blob market cornered already.
MA3 and the Genecaste had it right.

>>94224603
Doesn't it still die to massed nukes? I know it has a bunch of AMS but I think that just turns it into an N+1 game.

>>94224612
Herb has spoken about it before but the initial FASA plan for the "Jihad" (it was planned, but not to be the Sphere-wide shit fit), Victor was going to assemble a multinational force that got bodied and was in despair until the Ghost Bears showed up to rescue everyone.

Part of this was their heel face turn from aggressive Crusaders to care bears around 3058, part of it was making them have a fuckhueg massive military, and part of it was giving them mega-WarShips.

But also the devs don't really know or care about the naval game so they didn't really pay attention to what was going on with the Lev II, then they let Jellico make the Lev III, because they needed more Lev per Lev.

The Leviathans are, in an absolute sense, pretty shittily optimised from a design standpoint due to the number and type of conventional weapons carried bloating out its fire control mass and their anti-ship firepower is nowhere near as powerful as it could be. The armour isn't maxed out but being nuke-proof is a considerable advantage.

Designing a killier WarShip is pretty trivial. But among canon designs, nothing stands a credible chance one on one. I'd put the minimum viable force to fight one at about 2 McKennas and 4 Black Lions, and those are some of the best canon ships available. Nobody has a fleet that powerful.

You'd need to assemble a fleet composed of the entire state navy of like four major factions just to take on one Leviathan II. The Bears, naturally, have one Leviathan II and one Leviathan III, which is better than the Lev II and thus have a more powerful navy than everyone else combined.

>>94224626
It's their Theras and attached supports, yes. The Zechitinu and Agammemnon are ass, Eagles are kind of okay, but their real strength is in ASF squadrons, which are fundamentally broken rules-wise.

>>94224709
>The Bears, naturally, have one Leviathan II and one Leviathan III, which is better than the Lev II and thus have a more powerful navy than everyone else combined
This is exactly why I think they're gonna get taken out with nukes from the inside, because all warships have to go and no one can take it out in a straight fight.

>>94224684
Lorewise, yes. On the tabletop, overwhelming its redundant AMS grids requires more missiles be fired at it than anyone is likely to have. Functionally, it's invulnerable.

>>94224651
Clanners can identify anyone who was born into their Clan by look and can distinguish between their own Bloodhouses at a glance. They are able to do this with other Clans they are familiar with as well.

It's a plot point in Impetus of War that Loren Jaffray can't allow himself to be seen because the Nova Cats will immediately know that he isn't a Jaguar, or a Clanner at all.

>>94224726
It would be amusing if someone Miraborg'd the fuck out of one of them.

>>94224733
>clanners are so unfathomably racist they can read your phenotypes at a glance, down to the bloodhouse, to decide how inferior you are
I kneel

>>94224612
Ben Rome approved them, and had Jellicoe design them. It's entirely because Ben is a massive CGB fanboy and wanted his Clan to win. It was finding out that Wolf was going to be the Ilclan that convinced him to quit the assistant line developer position back in 2016. They were deliberately designed to break the setting so the Ghost Bears would win.

>>94224793
>quitting a job because you can't cheat /yourdudes/ into the ultimate mary sues before the other guy
christ almighty is anyone in this godforsaken industry qualified for their jobs?

>>94224733
"Pocket warship" mules and unions each have 2 AR 10s, and each nuclear killer whale does 1000 capital damage and scraps the ship on an 8+. Maybe I am wrong about how hard it is to get 11 missiles to hit the same location

>>94224802
Nope.

>>94224804
The Nekohono'O with its three Kraken Ts is also worth considering. Combine built them specifically to counter Ghost Bear warships.

>>94224802
No. And it will never change. The things that makes you creatively qualified to make something at a professional level also inherently make you unqualified to make good logical decisions not in your own best interest.

>>94224793
Rome was already gone before the Lev III premiered but I will agree that he was part of the bigging up of the Bears.

Rome also quit because CGL were being shitcunts and not paying him, not over anything ilClan related. That wasn't even on the horizon at the time either.

I'm not Rome's biggest fan but if you are going to shit on him at least shit on him for stuff he did.

>>94224802
Nope. This is why you hear people say you shouldn't hire fans for games like this. But people who aren't fans have the opposite problem where you know they just don't care like the fans do.

>>94224804
>>94224812
I'm gonna be gentle here because it's clear you don't know the rules, but no.

AMS bay damage, like everything else, rounds up. The Front, Fore-Left, Fore-Right, Aft-Left, Aft-Right, and Aft arcs each have a bay of 5 AMS. Each AMS bay covers its own arc and one adjacent arc.

Each of the Leviathan II's AMS bays rounds up to two capital damage against capital missiles. Krakens take 4 damage to shoot down, i.e., exactly what the Leviathan can do.

As long as the Leviathan has enough heat capacity (it has 9,500 heat dissipation) and ammo (each AMS bay has 1,000 volleys) it can shoot down as many incoming Krakens (and thus Peacemakers) as it wants per turn.

So you need to do over a thousand damage to get to the IS or get a very lucky shot to take out the AMS bay and stop it from no-selling missile strikes.

Functionally, the Leviathan is nuke-proof.

>>94224812
>The Nekohono'O with its three Kraken Ts is also worth considering. Combine built them specifically to counter Ghost Bear warships.
Lore-wise, sure. In tabletop play, naval missiles suck balls and Teleoperated ones are even worse. It would have been better with bays of standard scale ER PPCs.

>>94224804
>Warning: back of napkin approximate math

An extremely large and well-equipped flotilla can, technically, overwhelm a Levs AMS grid, yes. However, these sort of counterfactuals always end up as and myopic look at a single aspect of an engagement, rather than considering magnitude of the entire enterprise.

First you have to assemble an armada big enough to do the job. Then you have to build redundancy into the armada. This is by no means an insignificant operation. Let's say you need to be able to reliably hit the Lev with 15 nukes - all in the same arc of fire - to overwhelm the defense grid *and* to provide enough redundancy to overcome the 8+ breaking the keel check to a satisfactory degree. That's 15 successful attack rolls.

You have to build redundancy into your armada for combat losses, for ships which cannot make it into the desired arc of fire in a single turn, and for missed rolls.

Combat losses are going to be *severe*. You have to actually get to the Lev in order to hit it with a nuke. Which means you have to get through it's fighter screen (best in the game), it's DropShip screen (second best in the game with the best combat DropDhip selections), and through its own capital-grade weapons fire, and the massed capital weapon fire of any of its warship escorts...all massed in exactly the right place at the right time to generate the very large number of attack rolls required to guarantee 15 successful hits.
>cont

can't we just call the wob remnants up and just shoot the lev with a mass driver?

>>94224855
My understanding was that there was a limit to how many missiles could be negated per AMS per round of combat. If it literally makes you immune to missiles that is very silly.

>>94224793
Lmao. This is like the Star Wars dork who got so mad about losing "who would win" arguments to trekkies that he joined lucasfilm specifically to ad comically large specs to Star Wars ships so that he wouldn't lose an argument to trekkies on the usenet again.

>>94224863
>2/2

So now say you need 10s to hit (4 gunnery + long capital range + 2 capital ECM). How many actual attack rolls do you need to generate 15 hits? (~90) Now back that up even further; that number is the bare minimum number of launchers you require. Multiply that by about 3 in order to account for being out of arc, or being destroyed by the screen before they can take their shots, or anything else. You might get lucky and do it with less, but we're talking about a mission you need a 100% guarantee of success. You need about 270 launchers available.

So how easy is it to amass **250+** capital class missile launchers to fire the nukes at a Lev? And these are capital class, remember. If you use standard scale launchers, you have to close to shorter range and will therefore take higher losses before you can salvo.

And none of this is considering the full rules for the Leviathan's AMS grid, where IIRC you need slightly over a thousand points worth of capital missiles in order to *actually* overcome the defense grid (each missile is between 2 and 4 points). This is just trying to give you the scale of the problem using fluffwise plausible numbers, and not the actual tabletop rules.

So which fleet has 250+ capital launchers laying about? Which fleet can afford to mass them all in one place? What faction has good enough intelligence to actually manage to catch an L-F battery equipped WarShip during any sort of operations? Which fleet can afford to take the losses that will ensue from trying to get all of those launchers actually into range and into the same damage arc of the target ship?

"LoL, just nuke it", is not actually an answer if you perform any sort of analysis whatsoever.

>>94224468
My next armchair general opinion: The cost of dropships means it's more efficient to put stronger mechs in. The price of a Leopard stocked with four locusts is 174,130,928 C-bills (8 compact locusts: 180,181,328). The price of a leopard stocked with four Timberwolf Primes is 265,014,628 C-bills. If dropship space is limited, and jumpship collars are limited, then you get a lot more power delivered with much less expense if you put more expensive mechs in fewer dropships. Now, if you're shipping mechs as cargo and doing the setup on planet then it becomes a question of tonnage ratios, but for combat drops / landings you should never bring less than the best.

>>94224863
See >>94224855, NEA. AMSes each do 3 standard scale damage to capital missiles. The Lev II has 5 AMSes per bay in each arc. Each bay can do 2 damage, and two bays do 4 damage which shoots down a Killer Whale*, so it's nuke proof unless you have a way to get around the heat and ammo limitations or take out an AMS bay, and the only practical way to do that is to slam over a thousand damage into a given armour facing.

*I goofed and said Kraken. Krakens and some of the heaver Sub-Cap missiles can get through, but then there's the rule that each point of AMS damage done to a missile adds 1 to the to-hit roll to consider, so even then the Lev II can impose anywhere between a +2 (1 bay) to +6 (three bays) modifier to the to-hit roll and it's hardly ever going to be hit by the Krakens or Sub-Caps any way.

>>94224870
I mean, you can, but Mass Driver rules are shit. You can only attack down the Nose row, there's a to-hit penalty, and even then they do pretty crap damage. The only reason to mount a Mass Driver over an equal damage amount of NGRs is because you for some reason want to exceed the 70 damage per bay cap.

So maybe lore wise, but not really on the tabletop.

>>94224878
The limit is how much ammo and heat you want to spend. AMS bays can fire as many times as you have the heat and ammo to accommodate.

Nukes on tabletop are scary to most ships because it's really only the Lev II that has a credible defense grid. Against anything else they will essentially kill anything they hit either from the critical existence check or the sheer damage, but negating nukes is trivial design-wise since it takes a grand total of 2,515 tons to laugh forever at nukes. Cump change on a WarShip.

>>94224907

I got you. 2nd post, man. >>94224891
>none of this is considering the full rules for the Leviathan's AMS grid, where IIRC you need slightly over a thousand points worth of capital missiles

But regardless, thank you for putting up the actual rules. I'm at work and did not have the AMS reference material, and I didn't want to say something *wrong*. Good to have someone posting actual facts.

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Hey do you guys like mechs?

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Hypothetically speaking, what would be the most effective way to end the clans invasion era? Nuke every home like Smoke Jaguar's?

>>94224952
>>94224934
>>94224907
>>94224893
>>94224891
>>94224863
If this is what the AMS rules allow, then they are silly and stupid and I would not allow them to be used on my table. Nothing should be able to survive a nuke, ever, period. That's what nukes are for.

So is there actually any valid reason why someone couldn't just nuke the Leviathan while it's stationary in orbit or something? Badly written rules don't count.

>>94224978
Not as much as I like the idea of flying battlecruisers or combat airships in alternative history settings. Do you have anything like that?

>>94224981
What if, after wiping out the Jags to prove that the Clans can't wage warfare with impunity, we faced the Clans on Strana Mechty in proper Trials of Refusal to force them to end the Invasion? We could even call it the Great Refusal!

>>94224991
Cocksucker

>>94224982
Ignoring your bait, I think the play is to compromise one of the many dropships that must be going back and forth. I think there was something about the taurians taking out an SLDF battlship with a fuel tanker detonation either during the periphery uprising or the reunification war.

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>>94224991
We're not past the bump limit yet, so all I have is this very normal use of the fact that Battletech has Airship rules.

>>94224998
This is why I was thinking sneak a nuke aboard inside of it.

>>94224982
Nukes produce a set amount of explosive force and radiation depending on how big their yield is. They aren't conceptual delete buttons that vaporize everything by default. It is entirely possible to engineer something which could survive a nuclear blast. It's just a question of applied engineering.

>>94224997
I'm going to keep asking MCA and NEA to post things about Leviathans, solely because it brings me joy to see you so continually mad about it.
Dumb faggot.

>>94225007
Battletech nukes are comically bulky for their very low yields and do only 10% of their damage in space but are still one hit kills for the level of stuff they are supposed to be fired at.

>>94225007
Not even to mention the fact that explosives, especially nukes, are incredibly energy inefficient. In a standard explosion, say like an RPG-7 projectile, something like 90% to 95% of the energy of that explosion is wasted. It just disperses randomly, intead of being focused on it's target. Nukes are even worse. For the aplications we use them, nukes waste like 99.999999999% of their total energy. Nukes suck and are the poor man's doomsday weapon.

>>94224982
The problem is that firing a nuke at a ship is essentially a case of "roll 8+ to delete this ship completely" due to how much damage they inflict, which is not fun.

Hardly anything has enough AMS to stop even a single nuke, let alone multiple.

As far as just trying to nuke one? Bt sensors are similar to those of BSG and can pick up warheads quite easily. It's hard to slip the net and bring one to bear. Then on top of that they are the highest-value assets in the setting and protected and screened accordingly.

Leviathans are basically only destroyed as narrative contrivances. If you tried to play out the battles in which they fell they would actually have facetanked everything and then dawdled off to the next fight, having deleted entire WoB fleets from the setting.

>>94225007
As long as a Lev doesn't fail the save or die check for being hit by a nuke, it can tank up to six Peacemakers before taking internal damage.

Okay, so I'm on grand discovery learning with battletech and it's fun really. But I'm also trying to get a useful set of sculpts out to use in game.

So the armored game set should be set in the late success wars? Roughly 2900 - 3020? What's the best mix of starter mech's? I sort of wanted to do a Light / Medium x3 / Heavy to start with for the two of us but I also wanted some variety. What's the good mix to showcase a variety of options for newbs like us?

I sort of wanted something that would be sort of canon and give me an excuse to paint them together.

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>>94225056
Peacemakers do a thousand capital

>>94225080
4th Succession War is 3025. Lances are 4 mechs, you can take more, but so will your opponent.

Any collection of mechs is going to be canon-ish. Go onto Sarna and look at mechs and see which ones you like, and look at what year they were introduced.

>>94225080

Note that the majority of mechs are pretty much canon for a lot of time period. Though they are burning through those basics and moving into some more specialized ones. Use the MUL to check.

>>94225095
The Lev II has 1,000 capital armour on each facing.

I know how much damage a Peacemaker does.

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>>94225080

The game term for the era which you are referring to is "Introductory Tech". I would recommend that we both put forces together of 8 Mechs each (2 lances; units during that time period use 4 Mech "lances" which are analogous to us tank platoons of the 1980s). Having eight Mechs each allows for a good sideboard, so you can swap units in or out pretty easily so the game doesn't get stale.

Based on your proportions, I would look at two forces similar to this:

>Force 1
Cyclops, Warhammer, Archer, Griffin, Centurion, Phoenix Hawk, Javelin, Locust

>Force 2
Battlemaster, Marauder, Archer, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Enforcer, Jenner, Wasp

Those two forces are balanced against one another on a broad level, and should give you plenty of configurations to play with, especially once you start getting into variants. It also purposely avoids some of the more powerful designs, to keep both of you on an approximately even footing. Both sides are mostly faction-agnostic, though the second one leans a bit towards the Federated Suns/Draconis Combine border region. And yes, the Archer is in there twice on purpose. The most common Mech chassis in the game should be well represented.

>>94225178
If what you meant was "provided they all hit different facings" it's very strange to leave that out.

>>94225213
If you've actually played the space game that is literally what people will do. Tank with a facing, then turn, then rotate, then turn again.

But then hardly anyone has actually played it, so...

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>>94225025
Show up at Adepticon, there'll be big group games and a tournament.

>>94225249
This pic has never made any sense. You mean bottom penetrated you? How would that even work?

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>>94225255
Well you see the gameplay doesn't really reflect who we are as people. Also I don't remember exactly but I think my cruiser survived that.

Then NEA absolutely destroyed me in a game of BT despite having SV_nocrits 1 enabled.

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Got my Lyran Regulars company all painted now I can procrastinate throwing a wash on and basing them

>>94223988
They flew too close to Terra and hit The Wall.

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>>94224306

>>94224651
>I should be able to tell apart Clanners and which Clan they hail from visually
You canonically can. The Blood houses all maintain the looks of their founders after all, creating very distinct blocks within their warrior population that all look like they're from the same family.

>>94225362
thud's cockpit?

>>94225474
Anon missed it. That little octagonal bit with the 2 parts sticking up on the front of the head is the cockpit glass.

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>>94225205
This is very helpful thank you.

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>>94225474
The part on top isn't the cockpit

>>94225362
could use a third color before the wash, frankly.

>>94225274
any mechs worth a shit that actually carry club instead of a hatchet? By worth a shit, I mean not some horrendously worthless mech you'd only see periphery militias bolting together out of duct tape and sisbro semen.

>>94225564
While entirely correct, it does look better with the little curved bit painted as a cockpit. Think it's an unfortunate design, personally.

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>>94225474
>>94225515
pic related

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>>94225577

>>94225362

I agree with >>94225565 , if you're going to keep the two tones then you need to help break it up by applying metallic silver to the hands and joints like you did with the weapons

>>94225577
> it does look better with the little curved bit painted as a cockpit.
You mean the hatch?

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>>94225565
The Nightsky is the best hatchet mech due to being a 6/9/6 pulse boat that can also hatchet. Axman is either a Hunchback with a hatchet for bonus (1N, 3S) or a Catapult that can hatchet anyone who tries to exploit minimum range(2N)

No-Dachi has a sword rather than hatchet, but the 2KO model fucks severely. Killed a Sagittaire with it on Monday.

The Berserker is a hundred ton monster with a hatchet, but it's best used as a distraction carnifex, not a direct threat.

>>94225205
>Archer is the most common mech.
That cant be tru
>Looks up Sarna article.
>Over 100000 produced before the Succession Wars.
Well i learned something today. Thanks NEA

Also why does it take 15 minutes to post on /tg/ now?

>>94225603
When you look closely, yea.

But at a 3 foot distance, where everyone will see it, it's a little curvy bit. It just reads better as a cockpit from eye level. It's not like the models are perfect either. I've got a couple that clearly have multiple cockpits because of the cgl vs piranha design differences not being 100% figured out. Like I think my archer has a maddodg cockpit as well as a proper archer cockpit.

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>>94225604
I'm aware of hatchet designs. It seems the only mechs that would use a hatchet are relegated to solaris so they're not real weapons.

All melee weapons are the hatchet unless otherwise noted, basically. Or claws, on all of like 2 mechs in the universe.

>>94225636
>would use a mace*
whoops

>>94225636
Oh, I didn't read your post. No, maces are a gimmick for Solaris.

>>94225622
> It just reads better as a cockpit from eye level.
Debatable, having the narrow view slits helps to emphasize that this mech is effectively an armored tank by giving the torso and cockpit a more tank-like appearance.

>>94225636
yeah that's because all melee weapons are from the solaris supplement splat and they just straight ported them without making any actual attempt to make it worthwhile for regular battletech.

it's why even with TSM equipped, it's better to just kick in 9/10 situations rather than use the melee weapon.

>>94225591
>>94225564
oh, it's just hidden from the camera

>>94225665
If I could make one change to the rules, I'd make it so kicking only hits the hex directly in front of you, not any hex in the front arc. That'd make hatchets and punches a lot better.

>>94225727
Punches have a 1/6 chance of hitting the head, a kick does more damage and can unbalance the mech, but can only inflict direct damage to lower areas of the mech. How is that not enough?

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>>94225665
>no pile bunker
>only a lance or a retractable blade
>neither of which are the horrorshow satisfying divine mecha uppercut of the pile bunker

>9 crits
>can only be placed in an arm with no hand actuator
>to-hit: +0
>damage: 1/per 10t +2**
>a successful hit prompts a critical hit roll regardless of armor, and deals 2 structure damage.
>** only penetrating damage is affected by TSM
>weight: tonnage/10 rounded up

>>94225763
There really should be a reinforced retractable blade that acts as a pile bunker.

>>94225736
because melee weapons don't use the punch table. and additionally kicks get a -2 on hits with none of the weight or critslot drawbacks of the melee weapons either, while also doing as much damage as a hatchet.

i'm not certain how i'd balance it honestly. nerfing kicking feels bad. making melee weapons use the punch table seems the simplest solution but then that leaves the question on damage. cause why the hell should a kick do as much damage as a fucking hatchet.

Quads have 4 legs therefore they are the best mech for melee

>>94224486
>they're kinda retarded, but that chronic retardation is what gives them their character
this, in general, is what makes good war fiction.
Wars are planned by humans, humans are retards with biases and dumb ideas and dumb goals.
Our retardation is a limit, and limits breed creativity.

>>94225817
>why kick damage
I've always seen kicks as more of an aggressive forward step. You're basically putting all of your tonnage into an exaggerated step or a low tackle. Which explains the psr roll when you miss since you lose your balance if there's nothing to step onto.

>melee weapons in general
I think of hatchets more as a formalized strudy tree. The game is much more forcused on movement and ranged combat so I think melee options are only there as quirky flavor and less as something fully flushed out.

When it comes to clan vs IS weapons, what are the worst offenders? Pulse lasers?

>>94225763
>>94225782
They're so obvious as an IndustrialMech tool that could be adapted to weapon that the ommission is glaringly obvious.

>>94225885
large pulse lasers and lrm 20s

>>94225885
As always, the tier list is Energy weapons > Missiles > Ballistics. There was a window of time where the IS only had Ultra 5s and LBX 10s but that closed relatively quickly.

For the anon who brought up the status of the Annihilators that Wolf's Dragoons brought with them to the IS from like two threads ago:

While I was browsing More Tales of the Black Widow last night, there was one Annihilator actively in use (by Jorge Muller) in the Black Widow Battalion in 3031, and that same Annihilator, with the same pilot, was still in use when the unit converted to Trinary/Cluster formation in 3039. It doesn't give what version of Annihilator was in use, however, so it's kind of a toss-up if he was using the dumbed-down -1A or the post-Misery -1E by 3039.

Fucking CGL just took my money for Kickstarter shipping finally. I'd be glad, but I have been asking them for three fucking weeks that "hey my shipping is too high, I've seen equivalent shippings be less than half of this". So fuck me, guess I'm paying 90€ more than other people because CGL hates me.

They did give me 24$ of complimentary credit to use at their webstore, which is about as useful to me as a snowball in hell, as trying to buy anything from their webstore has over a hunded bucks in shipping anyway.

Fuck CGL, pirate PDFs and 3D print your models.

>>94225947
>Euros
sounds like a you problem

>>94225947
Live someplace civilized.

>>94225871
There are rules for picking up trees or 'mech limbs starting from the earliest editions of Battletech, so it's pretty obvious they are an intentional part of the rules.

How many light years across was this again

>>94225947
And that is why one always buys from third party sellers and not the big wargame jackasses directly. Could be worse though. Atleast we dont have the australian shipping issues

>>94225951
And you wonder why half the planet hates your fucking country
>>94225953
I do. How's that healthcare going for you?
>inb4 Hurr I live in Guatemala not USA durr

>>94225964
MY healthcare is fine, but I won't lie and say everyone's is. Some folks just have an aversion to earning it.

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>>94225994
>Actually defending USA healthcare

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New WIP: A company of Dawn Guards. Obviously early stages but I just realized I've been painting for hours and need to stop.

>>94226010
I swear once I'm done with this company of Pleiades Hussars, I will never touch yellow paint ever again.

>>94226018
The yellow has been much less problematic than extremely carefully recess washing. I normally do all-over washes but that wouldn't work here.

>>94226030
I'm at the wash phase myself. I'm thinking of doing the Duncan Rhodes method and just washing the whole model before re-painting by panels rather than try and pin wash all of Shimmy's greeble gaps, but either way will take forever to finish.

>>94226003
anon, this is 4chan, if a post makes you unduly mad assume it's bait.

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>>94225636
>All melee weapons are the hatchet unless otherwise noted, basically.

And that's how it should have remained.

>>94225604
>The Nightsky is the best hatchet mech due to being a 6/9/6 pulse boat that can also hatchet.

Strong argument can be made for the TSM Scarabus. It's a great scout that can destroy most things it can't outrun, and can deliver the odd headcap (though obviously that's not something to count on).

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Did someone mention the japanese Battletech: Ubawareta Seihai game being translated to english, or was that a fever dream?

>>94226168
SCB-9T is fucking whacky. I love the little guy and I really need to get a model for him.

>>94225817
Concept: all Mech melee weapons which require tonnage (except the flail), give the effects of the Swordsman SPA automatically. That should balance them against kicks acceptably.

>>94226252
I'm still not sure why you think kicks are too powerful. They can be a huge risk for unskilled pilots already getting into perilous range. I've had Princess bend me over and savage me viciously for getting cocky and going for a kick with piloting and tonnage too low to justify the risks.

On the other hand, melee weapons and punches both carry no risk beyond getting into melee range, with a chance of headcapping for your prizefight knockout being enough to justify the gamble. While melee weapons other than swords and hatchets seem rather hard to justify in most cases, that has more to do with their stats being not very well balanced against the OG rather than any intrinsic problem with mech melee.

If you want or need more melee power out of your melee weapons, why not just pay for/acquire the SPAs for your pilots? That's literally what they're there for.

>>94226342
Kicks' -2 to hit means they are always, 100% the ideal melee option whenever they're available.

>>94226179
Given it's just MW1 with a new coat of paint I suspect the latter.

>>94226342
The only reason to punch is having a reason not to kick. That says enough imo.

Mechs have pulse legs (-2 to hit) this is huge. Only missed kick attacks have a chance of you falling over. And even then at piloting 5, it's only a 1/6 chance. And if you hit (which you are likely to do) not only is your damage very focused, you also inflict a chance for your opponent to fall over.
Compared to punches where your chance to hit is significantly lower, and the chance of hitting the head is only 1/6.

>>94226401
This plus punching and using physical weapons locks you out of any shooting weapons mounted in those arms, while leg weapons are so rare the kick requirement doesn't have that problem

>>94225947
Be happy that you aren't from the Euro countries that add VAT and random tax to out-of-Europe shipping. Sometimes my shipping expenses flat-out doubled because the EU hates its own slaves.

If a game's limits are "units from 3066 or earlier, no clan tech" what are the beardy optimized builds to watch out for?

>>94226635
FedCom gausswalls and heavy cavalry mostly.

After that it's jump + PL stuff like the Wraith.

AS7-D-H2 vs. HGN-732b; which one will be generally better?

>>94226650
>no mention of Clan pulse boats with tarcomps

Warhawk C and Rifleman IIC are probably the most bullshit standard variants before the Hellstar.

>>94227034
>units from 3066 or earlier, no clan tech

>>94226924
Atlas II has better ranged firepower but can't jump. Most of the time, Atlas.

>>94225888
Boy, do I have a non-weaponized tool that can be used as an improvised weapon for you
>https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pile_Driver

Why can't you just take a jumpship, fill it with basketball-sized ball bearings and nukes, jump it into the middle of an enemy formation and watch your hillbilly-rigged space mine obliterate everything in sight

>>94227657
Jumping directly into a moving formation is very difficult. Theoretically you could do it by feeding real-time data through an HPG constellation but the cost for that sort of thing is eyewatering.

>>94227657
Jumpships don't land with pinpoint precision and can't land anywhere significantly affected by a gravity well. There's a good chance it won't be close enough to anything else at the same jump point, and if you started doing that, nobody would linger at the jump point at all, they'd just spend a few hours after each of their jumps slow boating into space where you can't jump. Or just pick an arbitrary location slightly further away from the optimal jump point and leave you guessing which part of the featureless void "near" a jump point they happened to have chosen.

What's the most busted Star you can make using standard configs?

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> Holy Shit, mercenaries on amazon, how?
> Oh....

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>>94227657

>>94224978
This is a warship thread now, keep moving

>>94223988
>want the Ravens to actually get some conflicts to participate in
>this necessitates removing their warships from the equation
>which probably means they lose any war of attrition or ground game that follows

I like the Ravens but man, I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop because I know whatever the writers do is likely going to get them wiped out for a stupid reason.

>>94223997
Please don’t

>>94227884
I'm telling you, the next arc needs to be the Feddies, the Ravens and Rasalhague all invading the Combine and partitioning it. If you wanted to go far enough, you could even turn the Combine in nu-Japan, complete with Self Defense Forces that behaves at the behest of it's neighbors.

You could do 18th century Poland and 20th century post-war Japan all at once. Then to appease the boomers you can work up to a Beerhall Putsch style nationalist revolution after some decades.

>>94225782
>>94225763
Under advanced rules you can use the retractable blade like ezio auditore during a punch to get a crit roll with a chance of snapping the blade.

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>>94227931

Unironically I would enjoy a full Combine civil war with different halfs being backed by different foreign sponsors, instead of the wet-NovaCatKilling-fart we had.

TeddyKC3 land vs. Black Dragon Japan

>>94227685
>>94227697
And when you do make the jump, it takes somewhere around a minute for the jump bubble to collapse and your sensors to come back online, so your first indication that you've actually landed where you're supposed to be is when your ship starts exploding.

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>>94226010
I like it, now put the funny hat on the Regent.

>>94227931
>>94228066
Don’t get my hopes up, that sounds awesome so obviously it’ll never happen

>>94228066
Or collapsing into Sengoku era civil war with regional warlords would be cool. Make it like the FWL for a few years.

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>>94223965
https://youtu.be/_GIotvR6aEw

can someone post that Solaris mech that has "you suck" (? or whatever it is?) written across the chest?

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The 3D renders of the Dragon Fire are now publicly available on Shimmy's Patreon. I'm still not sure what I think about it...

Is there anything about the setting that irks you no matter the era?

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>>94228631
Second view

>>94228635
FedRats

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>>94228631

Rear view

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>>94228653

Seething Cappie detected.

>>94227991
Yea. and that's not kewl. I want something as spooky as an ac/20 in melee.

>>94228635
Clan Wolf and their permanent win streak no matter the odds. Even when they lose its um akshually a keikaku victory.

>>94228695
Just get a TSM assault mech. That's a 30-something point hatchet or kick and a head popping punch.

>>94228631
>>94228642
>>94228660
So do you get to download these files as stls or is it literally just paying a patreon to get still shots of models that will be coming out in the future?

>>94228635
Why the hell no one's figured out the Wolf's Dragoons have literally betrayed the entire universe and are still in existence in 3150.

>>94228726
https://www.patreon.com/shimmeringsword/about

Welcome to my Patreon!
I've been running this page on and off for a few years, previously with a focus on my personal scifi setting called "Rangers Project", or "Protectorate Wars".
Now I'm back with a new angle. Catalyst Game Labs has given me approval to start posting official Battletech work to my patreon (pre-release content included), giving fans a deep look into my work and production processes. If you want to see stompy robots, this is now the place to be!
I'll be posting mech design sketches, 3D sculpt WIPs/renders, prototype shots, paintings (when they occasionally happen).
(Please be aware I don't give out any 3D files at any tier)

To reward even the most frugal of support, $1 patrons will be seeing a fair stream of sketch work. The meat starts at $2 though, where you gain access to all posted images. From there on up simply pledge what you're comfortable with and able.

Additionally, ALL patrons may accrue credit towards copies of my PDF art book. For every $15 of support you send my way, I will give you a copy. After your first personal copy you can provide me with your friends email addresses (how I distribute the book) to give them copies too! Simply nudge me for redemptions whenever you hit those $15 increments.

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>>94228653

>>94228745
So you are asking for money and providing nothing of value at all. No actual asset. That's rather absurd.

>>94228761
You will own nothing and you will be happy. Remember, you buy licenses for your Steam games, not the games themselves. This is the world ((Marxists)) made.

>>94228761
>So you are asking for money and providing nothing of value at all. No actual asset. That's rather absurd.

You get to see them three months early. He doesn't post STLs because he likes his job with Catalyst.

>>94228721
More than that, the setting bends over backwards to set them up for a win that they shouldn’t even have been around for. Example: why the FUCK is being ‘forced to participate in the invasion’ a punishment? Wolf gets a shitload of personal honor, resource-rich planets, and the chance to actually win the drive to Terra, which you would think are counter-intuitive to PUNISHING your political dissidents.

>>94228785
I'd argue that early access isn't worth shit.

>>94228635
The wanking off of the Big Three Clans being relentless.

>>94228631
>>94228642
>>94228660
Another Mech that'll get an optimized Davion variant in the ilClan era. Hooray.

>>94226003
Did you know that different people in the US have different Healthcare coverage? Not hard to understand.

>>94228832
>filled with autocannons
>optimized

>>94228772
>((Marxists))
Nobody's forcing the poor corporations to sell you licenses instead of physical products. They do it on their own accord, because it makes more money. If anything, it's the logical end-result of capitalism: why sell someone a product and charge them once, when you can sell them a subscription and repeatedly charge them for something they already bought?

>>94226003
As compared to what? Canadian health care?

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>>94228563
ah whatever, I'm just gonna go for "FUCK YOU"

:3c

>>94228809
>I'd argue that early access isn't worth shit.

Much like your opinion then?

>>94228928
Oh wow, I get to see pictures a few months before everyone else gets to see pictures. Such amazing value.

>>94228896
I understand that he implies that the Elders of Zion are to blame and that you should kill a random Jew to set things right.

>>94228772
This the world Reagan and Clinton made. Rampent deregulation and legislative apathy have ruined our economy.

>>94228809
It isnt, but some consoomers can't help themselves.

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>>94228761
It seems that you're asked to pay him, because CGL sure as fuck aren't going to give him a dime for his time.

>>94225964
>And you wonder why half the planet hates your fucking country
Lol, no we don't.
>>94226010
Look promising, keep us updated.

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>>94228913
awww yisss

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>>94228642
This is still better

>>94229167
Nice.

>>94229006
>>94229000
>>94228909
>>94228896
>>94228850
>>94228772
> REEE I’m MAD! I HAVE OPINIONS!
> ‘angry buzzwords’!, ‘angry buzzwords’!
Yes, yes, everyone is awful but you, and you are the sole voice of reason amongst a sea of idiots and mustache-twirling villains.

Now can we PLEASE get back to discussing big, stompy robots and the reckless dumbasses, -err… I mean “hotshots” who pilot them?

>>94228642
That looks like some crazy firepower! Which mech is that?

>>94228957
>Oh wow, I get to see pictures a few months before everyone else gets to see pictures. Such amazing value.

It's fucking $2 a month. Anymore that wont even buy you a soda.

>>94229469
>That looks like some crazy firepower! Which mech is that?

>> 94228631

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So I note in some of the earliest battles described in the setting, Draconis March Militia units are used a lot in a more offensive role. Is this a thing militia units do? I thought the idea was that they just did defense. More importantly, did this happen on the Capellan front as well?

>>94229757
DMM units have more hate for the DCMS than the entire Capellan March has for the Liao family. DM orphanages might as well be DMM recruiting centers.

>>94229757
Fedrats were so shit at war for the 1st and 2nd Succs that they had no choice but to use militia units for offensives. It wasn't until they finally got a Davion to give in to monarchism and pull everyone's shit together that the AFFS started getting good enough to put up a fight against the Dragon.

>>94229757
The earliest written stuff was also the most feudal, and the era is still the most feudal even with later writing toning that aspect down. The only thing stopping strictly defensive units from being offensive is the higher ups actually caring to stop them. There's a good chance the higher ups are the ones using them offensively in the first place, but even if it's just a Colonel being a gloryhound, as long as the unit doesn't up and die or start a war that wasn't already in progress, there won't be many consequences of it. Pretty much everyone operated like that. One unit does a little rogue raiding without orders, the guys on the other side do some revenge raiding, and so on.

>>94229757
It’s a weird quirk of the Federated Suns that more capable milita units are organized into March Militias that will patrol an entire march. It would thus stand to reason that if there are worlds under Combine control that historically belonged to the Suns, they may send the Draconis March Militia(s) to “get them back” as an extension of their duties.

>>94227657
Jumps are acausal. They put out an IR burst at the point of arrival a few minutes before the ship arrives and the strength and duration of the IR burst is a function of how big the ship is and how many DropShips it has attached (e.g., a Potemkin with a full DS complement has a longer burst than a McKenna). This is a plot point when WoB deploy one of their super-Jump vessels because the burst runs past the size and duration of any known jump signature.

So not only is space ridiculously massive, but making a Jump warns everyone with the ability to move that something is coming, and that's on top of jumps having margins of error. Even if it works one time it will result in SOP being to start moving when you pick up an inbound signature, so it won't work again.

You're better off with Q-Ships if you want to try your luck.

>>94227795
Nothing but Timber Wolf As and Dire Wolf Widowmakers or As.

Or, I guess, Nagas with nukes.

>>94228721
>permanent win streak
>lose a third of their OZ to the Bears, with the Bears proving better at mobile warfare than the Wolves
>lose half their remaining OZ to the Horses, including Vlad Ward dying to a fucking tank
>get assreamed by the Bears, Horses, and Falcons for a century until they have so much intergenerational PTSD they flee the OZ that remains
>overextend themselves to create the Wolf Empire
>so weak they'll fall over
I'd lay odds that the current state of the Wolves is a fake-out. Either the Falcons or Bears will challenge them and take the crown in the end.

>>94228744
They contributed significantly to the IS' victory over the Clans by training the heirs, fighting at Luthien, and fighting in Bulldog then were the first to notice WoB were up to no good and lost a lot opposing them. Show me one actual betrayal.

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>>94229167
>>94229361
thanks bro

>>94230075
Why does the texture look so weird? Like its made of styrofoam

>>94229757
The March Militias range in quality and support, from backwater numpties to essentially front-line formations. The DMM are particularly battle-hardened and well-supplied. They're basically at the level of the better regional commands of other Houses and get used in the same way.

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>>94230096
cause that picture was with a bunch of zoom.

>>94230111
Ok yeah looks much nicer here. Good work anon

>>94230101
Planetary militias vary in quality and can genuinely contain part time soldiers and minor lordlings with family machines doing feudal obligation stuff. The March militias are brigades of worth of professional soldiers in battlemechs who were federalized before the star league fell and are only called militias as a political smokescreen.

>>94224187
I can understand the logic behind most of this, but
>Lyran Commonwealth=Star Wars
I'm not quite sure how this tracks

>>94230382
The FedSuns is only Star Trek because Hanse is a trace of William Shatner. By that logic, Katrina and Melissa running around with a handgun and a dream despite being princesses at the time makes it star wars.

>>94230254
I know that the March Militias are not planetary militias. However, you've got the DMM that are up there with the FedCom Corps of RCTs for supply and combat ability through to the shittier commands of the Crucis Marh Militia which depending on the unit may be just above planetary militia tier.

They're still nominally second-line formations, it's just that some are better than others.

>>94230382
>I'm not quite sure how this tracks
They have space nobility doing whatever, but by that logic, the Fedsuns would be the Imperium, because they're the ones who got their Senate overthrown and had a system installed where their dictator directly invests people into all relevant political and military position.

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Found out about Flux AI images and ran a simple mechwarrior prompt through it. Not bad at all...

You guys think this will make BT related media in the future?

>>94230621
Doesn't look anything like a mechwarrior. Looks like a generic sci-fi commando.

Show me something that resembles a mechwarrior and then we'll talk.

>>94228631
>I'm still not sure what I think about it...
Honestly I was never much of a fan of the original, I like the new design better.

>>94230648
Its pretty close to mech warriors in modern materials, which mostly just look like generic sci fi soldiers, even if it isn't really much like the art from the 80s and 90s.

>>94230663
>modern materials

You mean the video games.

>>94230648
NTA but I already know you'll bitch about anything that isn't a big bucket helmet, despite the fact those weren't the only kind of neural helmet even back in the early FAFSA lore.

>>94230698
New books too.

How do you use the Dire Wolf? I know it's a great weapons platform, but it's just so slow. I can never get it where I want it.

>>94230715
Blow the shit out of them at range.

>>94230715
3/5/0 assaults you get to a controlling position and make the enemy come to them. They need long range weapons (for their era) to be effective - or, y'know, to be in tight confines, like a city. This is why the AS7-D kinda sucks ass unless defending or attacking a static target, its reach is too short.

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>>94230698
Looks like someone forgot about Battletech: Legends

>>94230785
Is that Nipsey Hustle?

>>94230732
Are 8 Medium Pulses with 2 ERPPCs and an LRM-15 good enough? Should I swap something out?

>>94230648

Sure but, the visual aesthetics of BT have been evolving since its inception.

It would be different if there was only one or two mainstay artists for the TT sourcebooks but that isn't the case. Don't get me wrong, a part of me loves the 80's aesthetic of the old BT books and I genuinely hope for a happy middle in that expression of BT.

There definitely is the 80's futurism crowd and then there are some fans who want it to bear a closer resemblance to Halo or The Expanse.

And while the AI didn't present an absolutely perfect image, that could totally be a mechwarrior from at least 2050's onward.

>>94230852

Shit, I meant 3050's.

>>94230621
> You guys think this will make BT related media in the future?

I should hope not, AI art in general is more than a little scummy, on multiple levels.

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blerp. this one is fine for tonight. might do something on the gun later on

>>94230868
so perfect for CGL?

>>94230872
Is that a beemer?

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>>94230886
yes. butt.

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>>94230785
Look how they massacred my boy.

Are there any novels where you get a good perspective of Clan life and how the Clans work? I prefer it to follow the Ghost Bears or Cloud Cobras but if it's good I'll read it whoever it is.

>>94228725
Why not a pneumatic tungsten rod the size of a subway train that glows red when charged by TSM?

>>94231089
I miss the 80s and 90s so much. Better times.

>>94231208
Jade Pheonix trilogy is all about coming up in the warrior caste, although it's Jade Falcon focused.

Twilight of the Clans series follows Trent from the Ghost Bears a bit. That's more about the Bear occupation zone than life in the homeworlds though. The Freeborn novel in the same series follows Horse, a Jade Falcon Freeborn, getting caught up in Jag politics on Huntress, although you'll be lacking context for what's going on without reading Jade Pheonix first.

>>94231300
>follows Trent from the Ghost Bears a bit.
Derp. Trent is a Jag, not a bear. I'm a little fried this evening.

>>94230101

The latest Davion book grades most DMM equipment as F tier, recommending that they keep using introtech mechs with maybe one with lostech upgrades per lance even during the post-Tukayyid arms buildup.

>>94230852
>the visual aesthetics of BT have been evolving since its inception.
Yes. They've been getting continually worse.

>>94231344
>trashcans on legs with impossible geometry was peak
Have some sense, please for fuck's sake.

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>>94231430

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>>94231250
I wouldn’t be so quick to say that.

I mean let’s not kid ourselves, more than a few of the mech designs from that era were… really bad! I mean really, really bad!

Just look at them, really look at them. Those old minis were stiff, awkward things that often had extremely hard lines and simple shapes to them that often made them look like game graphics from the same era.

Some might find these old designs “charming” but I find many of them repulsive, to the point that I might not have even picked up the game at all, or would’ve had a large catalog of mechs I’d refuse to run just because of how hideous the mini was.

Say what you will, but CGL’s glow up of the mechs when they started making them in plastic was a massive improvement.

>>94229498
Two dollars matters. A dollar wasted here and there adds up quickly.

>>94231484
There's a difference, I think.

The clungy old battlemech designs, sure. Garbage, mostly. Some are accidentaly cute or endering, like the swag Stalker, but most are bad. And Shimmeringsword, as much grief as he gets, has done an excellent job updating the old designs while still keeping them identifiable. I don't feel like the old spirit of the designs has been lost with the new plastics.

Replacing the old art, though, depends on the concept. Is completely replacing the old bucket helmet with something that looks both more modern and generic, worth it? I don't think so. People wearing thongs and life preservers and buckets to pilot Battlemechs is identifiably Battletech. That design doesnt look like anything else, and ditching for something that looks more contemporary is flat out ridiculous.

Now, that doesn't mean it shouldn't and can't be updated, or tweaked. It absolutely should, but that old style indicated that piloting a Battlemech required and included an certain amound of physicality. The helmet is big so you don't break your neck when your mech gets punch. You go in half naked because it's incredibly hot and just idling without a cooling jacket will induce heatstroke. That's cool, and those aspects of Mechwarrior-ing would be lost if we just turn everything into Titanfall. They can have different designs and models of course. No 2 like things look the same no matter if it's PPCs or Lasers or LRMs. But you shouldn't abondon the design ethos of the old designs. Then it's just like the other guy said, Halo.

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i understand why certain mechs which aren't actually common in-universe have the ubiquitous design quirk, but why doesn't the Locust get that quirk, it's literally the third most common mech in existence.

>>94231580
Because Locust parts don't survive long enough to accumulate in every warehouse and junkyard in the inner sphere. You lose a Locust, you unwrap a new Locust from cold storage. Locust lifespans are measured in hours, not centuries.

>>94231580
Probably just an oversight. Quirks need review and revision.

This is apropos nothing but there should be a Locust with 6 small lasers instead of the MGs and 2 mediums and a flamer instead of 2 MGs and a medium.

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If I were a WoB geneticist, knowing that the ability to pilot a mech has a biological component in neurohelmet compatibility, why would I not simply research what genes control that and just engineer a virus that removes that ability, release it over every planet with a major mechwarrior academy or a population over 500,000,000+, and then just wait a few generations while you vaccinate the rest of the wobbies?

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>>94231612
there already is, and it's the coolest looking light mech ever made: the Flea

>>94231559
The thongs and life jacket look invites questions like "how hot exactly is the inside of a battlemech" because there is a very narrow range band where taking clothes off is helpful and having exposed skin isn't dangerous.

It works in the era where everything is falling apart and no one knows how to repair the A/C that broke in granddad's time, but for new design/new production mechs that don't go up on the heat scale unless they are covered in super napalm it makes the engineers seem like morons.

>>94231644
>engineers look like morons
I mean, the Adder has a non-pod Flamer. I think it's safe to say they aren't brilliant.

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>>94231559
>The helmet is big so you don't break your neck when your mech gets punch.
I don't actually think that's true. Iirc, those bucket helmets were old school neural helmets that were kept around for training in academies. Then the succession wars happened and there was a shortage of regular helmets, so people had to improvise with these obsolete shit cans that are uncomfortable and hurt your neck. People hyperfocus on the bucket helmet and forget that it's not the only kind of neural helmet even back in the succession wars, just a really common one, and even then you wouldn't see an officer or rich mercenary caught dead with one if they could help it.

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>>94231644
And battlemechs are incredibly inefficient for really any kind of warfare. Application of reality into a fictional setting will destroy it. Everybody should be building WarShips and just nuke each other from orbit. Modern battletech tanks and aerospace vehicles are more than capable of handling any kind of terrestrial heavy weapons requirement.

Also, the listed weight of every single battlemech is wildly underestimated. The locust should weight like 60 tons. The Atlas should weight upwards of 500. Everything falls apart if you try to litigate it with 'realism'.

you fucking secondary

>>94231621
Engineering a virus like that, that wouldn't also kill or lobotomize whoever it infected, would probably take generations of work. And even then it's efficacy is questionable.

>>94231644
>>94231662
It could also just be that mech designers have come to believe that adding a goddamn AC system to the cockpit is an unnecessary luxury, and have forgotten the lessons that have lead modern militaries to realize that it’s very much a necessity. And probably arrogant enough to believe that the mech warriors coming back bitching about heat exhaustion and heat stroke are “just being babies”.

Then again, given how many mechs are out there that can barely keep their engines cool, I suspect keeping the mech warrior cool might just be too big of an ask of the engineers.

>>94231729
They might even see it as a point of honor, that piloting a mech is physically taxing and requires focus and determination.

>>94231729
>Then again, given how many mechs are out there that can barely keep their engines cool, I suspect keeping the mech warrior cool might just be too big of an ask of the engineers.
Well you know, "salvage the metal, replace the meat" and all that.

>>94231699
>Everybody should be building WarShips and just nuke each other from orbit.
They did that already, it was called the Age of War and it was an awful time to be alive and it ended when the powers of the time signed an agreement to not do that anymore and to gang up on anyone who broke the agreement, because the alternative was living in terror 24/7.
BattleTech is a step ahead of you.

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DROPSHIPS ARE COOL

THAT IS ALL

>>94231753
You just wanted an excuse to post your balls on /tg/.

>>94231753
Paint that sucker up!

>>94231753
>chad 3d print vs. virgin cgl plastic

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>>94231753
this is so chewable. I want to put this in my mouth.

>>94231729
That's my point. The game rules and simple logic both say that one of the things the life support systems do is keep heat away from the pilot.

If the cockpit temp is 85 F then shorts would be helpful. If it's 130 you can't have your skin exposed. If the first is true you should be able to knock it down to 72 with DHS, and if the second is true you need full body protective equipment.

>>94231644
All mechs run ridiculously hot. It's part of the myomer. Getting hit with weaponized fusion exhaust gains the same amount of heat as just running around. And importantly, it doesn't matter where that heat is applied, it gets dissipated all around the unit without melting anything. But that means it all gets equally hot.

I've personally worked in environments hot enough where I was wearing an air vest and had an industrial AC (15 ton unit, 20 foot six inch pipe) outlet directly on my back and I was still sweating my ass off. Pilots can have AC right on their face, it's not going to help if the ambient temperature is that high.

>>94231762
the vietnam sweatshop that assembles the boxes actually makes me less interested in buying cgl plastic. All I can think of is what they think of the grown men buying literal toys like this for 5 dollars a pop while they make nickels per hour.

>>94231771
Well, it might help. It's probably why you only take pilot damage and not pilot dead from extreme heat.
And of course if the heat didn't circulate around the head, then you'd get pilot dead as soon as a flamer or inferno missile happens to roll a head hit.

>>94231774
They probably think kids buy them.

>>94231811
You think that's better?

>>94231774
>I conveniently just now decided to care about poor asians in sweatshops, the universal constant of production

>>94231832
I don't care about poor asians. I care about the embarrassing waste of money.

>>94231821
Well, no, but sweatshops aren't all bad.

Is it abuse by western standards? Yeah sure. Does it save them from back breaking agrarian labour that would probably pay about the same, if not less? Probably.

If you're going to get moral about it, you can't buy anything, and I mean anything, for less than a serious mark-up because it's domestic and the all natural non-GMO egg farm you buy from is trading on your morality. Anything you buy that comes in a package, any kind of package, probably came from a third world country and was packaged by somebody that wouldn't be able to buy a candy bar with their daily wage. Is it moral? I don't know. Probably not. Is your refusal to buy from them going to harm those corporations that use that labour in any meanginful way? Not in the slightest.

If your conscience keeps you up at night thinking about the vietnamese kids sewing shoes together, that's fine. That's good even. But join a non-profit or something. Virtuistic moralizing on 4chan will not allay your conscience.

>>94231774
>>94231811
Considering these are probably the same gooks who make Christmas tree ornaments and Halloween decorations, they probably gave up on thinking about what they were making long ago.

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The new Midjourney AI image retexturer works pretty good with Battletech Black and White lineart.

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>>94231874

>>94231774
>>94231821
You clearly have never been poor, or unsure where your next meal is going to come from.

Your average vietnamese sweatshop working isn't thinking about you. When they think of America, they think of Brad Pitt and McDonald's and Kim Kardashians tits. That's what they think of when they think of America. When they're working, they aren't thinking "wow whoever buy these is such a loser." They're thinking "i can't wait to get home and see my wife/husband/dad/mom/grandma I wonder what's for dinner tonight I hope it's good and not garbage stew again"

You don't even enter into their minds. None of us do.

>>94231874
>>94231893
These are not tremendous dogshit I'm impressed.

>>94231909
It's seems to be heavily optimized for filling in color and shading on black and white sketches.

Which makes it particularly suitable for battletech shit.

>>94231863
tl;dr
see
>>94231850

>>94231874
>>94231893
If it provided you with layers, it'd be an excellent in between for people with no artistic ability.

>>94231945
Then why did you/he say anything about the vietnamese sweatshops?

Would a Clan ERPPC with Capacitor work in a Summoner?

>>94231957
context

>>94231969

>>94231774

>>94231964
Adding onto this, would a ERPPC with Capacitor or a Gauss Rifle make a better can opener?

>>94231984
How many spare heat sinks are you carrying?

>>94231984
>Would a 15/20 be better than a regular 15

This post sums it up >>94231988
Lighter machines will benefit more.

Now the better quastion is why not take a Hyper Laser? Fuck them retconning being able to slap pulse modules on it.

>>94232001
Can you Pulse Module a Binary Laser?

Obviously would be atrocious heat, but might still be fun with AES stacked on it or something.

>>94231988
>>94232001
I'm one heat short of being heat neutral, not accounting for movement.

>>94232009
Only works on regular and ER lasers as of the latest retcon because fuck fun apparently. But then again, Caps were IS only no-mixtech until enough people bitched.

>>94231907
> You don't even enter into their minds. None of us do
Yeah, that sounds about right. I think the only other person who is in a position to judge you for buying plastic figurines would be the retail worker who is watching you bring it up to the register and pay for it. But even here they are probably thinking “what time is it? Where the hell is Jeff? He was supposed to relieve me so I could go to lunch. If he doesn’t show up here soon I’m going to hit my 5th. Forget it, how many are after this guy? Okay once I get through these I’m closing my register, I’m not getting in trouble because of Jeff”. Well either that or a passing “oh, that’s for that game right?”.

Really at the end of the day the only people who will judge you negatively for your hobbies is your own low self esteem, and the entitled bitch behind you who already is utterly convinced that she’s the main character and everyone else is just an npc who doesn’t exist outside of their relevance to her. And honestly who gives a flying fuck what they think?

>>94232009
... what about an improved heavy large laser?

>>94232018
I mean, that's not that bad, especially since you're only using the capacitor every other turn.

>>94232041
This. It buys you an extra 5 sinks every other turn.

>>94232041
>>94232049
Hey that's a good point. I think I'll do that. Use an ERPPC w/Capacitor and an LB-X10.

>>94232001
>fire hyper pulse laser
>cap out heat immediately
>it explodes for no reason
hyper laser my beloved

>>94232091
I haven't found the right mech to out it on yet, but I'm looking

>>94231559
>And Shimmeringsword, as much grief as he gets, has done an excellent job updating the old designs while still keeping them identifiable. I don't feel like the old spirit of the designs has been lost with the new plastics.
I disagree. All he did was make everything angled and covered in greebles. The old FASA designs had curves and flat plates and identifiable features. I could look at a Banshee and know it was a Banshee simply by the Gargoyle sunglasses or Enforcer vy the chest structure. Now? If I didn't have a label with them, those mechs might as well be new designs entirely. All he did was make every single thing have a uniform design aesthetic as though everything comes from a single, unimaginative, engineer.

He helped ruin the look of BT by making everything look boring because everything looks the same.

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>>94232116
Hard agree, it's the reason I prefer ripped MWO models over the official minis.

>>94232116
>covered in greebles
This is his biggest sin. I think everything else is basically fine, but I don't understand his weird fetish for panel lines and weird, meaningless fixtures. I put it down to a compulsion to add texture.

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>>94232091
>>94232104

The key is that the 2 roll for explosion is the same 2 roll for pulse module self delete. Dare you Drac in the ultimate mook?

>>94232104
Panther is the right choice.

>>94232137
The MWO models are a complete hit or miss just like with Shimmys designs.

Fuck off.