>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf>Optional Quixalted Exaltshttps://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file>4thchan Edition (4.2E)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XqjkwQIR38ov7uZVSZGpcjI0QCPIiFaQkVosZVlhGH8/>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYthttps://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51>collection of Exalted Hackshttps://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs>stuff that might be interestinghttps://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/Last thread: >>94209867 TQ: What is best in life in Exalted?
>>94318537>TQ: What is best in life in Exalted?I don't think we ever got a "Gilgamesh praising uruk" moment.
>>94318537To go Devil-Tiger, see the Realm tremble before you, and hear the lamentations of the gods.
>>94318537>What is best in Life?Auto-Kun
To bring back even a sliver of the glory of the First Age, if but for a day, for a breath halting that endless cycle, to bring an Age of Heroes that will stand bold in virtue like the Sun amidst the rot of this dying world, a cleansing fire that burns wickedness and failure to ash and exalts the righteous.And, when again you stumble and trip and all your works are so much dust to rise and say "Once more!"
>>94320806Well, the one good thing about 3e is that it's drastically easier to do it as long as you can perform an Ambitious 3 Sorcerous Working>The devs: "N-no! You need irreplaceable magitech that-"Ah, ah, ah, as my subtle alteration to the laws of the cosmos I cause the underlying processes of Creation to both produce and maintain components useful for magitech. Flowers growing into mandela-cogs, demesnes having a tendency to pool together nearby etc. And then, once it's good and set, I cast a SECOND Sorcerous Working.Necromancy is, as in all editions, utterly irrelevant except for making the world a worse place in an edgier, more tedious way
>>94320827>Ah, ah, ah, as my subtle alteration to the laws of the cosmos I cause the underlying processes of Creation to both produce and maintain components useful for magitech. Flowers growing into mandela-cogs, demesnes having a tendency to pool together nearby etc>To: Iron Siaka, Rizako of Gem, Quiet Victory and Ahn-Aru.>From: Office of Wayang, Division of Endings, Sub-Directorate of Brushes with Death>You are directed to form a circle and resolve the causal nexus disruption identified by Case Number 2024-S-9432-0827.>Mission Profile:>18 Ascending Fire, Chiaroscuro. On this day, make certain that the chief chef of the Copper Spider >>94320827 serves fish rather than beef as a main course during the feast that night. They are forecast to choke on a fish bone and die prior to finalizing their ritual working, whose effects it have been determined will result in radical unapproved Loom alterations, and subsequently total reality failure.>Be advised that one disguised Solar Exalt will attend.>Estimated probability of hidden Lunar presence: 53.8%.>Estimated probability of hidden demonic presence: 46.4%.>Estimated probability of Fair Folk presence: 23.7%.
>>94321065It's the Age of Sorrows, Sidereals aren't allowed to accomplish anything anymore because they're constantly overworked and beset on all fronts by politics (in 1e/2e), and because they're being constantly invaded by Getimians (in 3e)
>>94321718They're constantly overworked, but that mostly means that they're letting a lot of small stuff slip while they prioritize bigger or more personal problems. A second Salinan Working (equivalent working) coming from Solar hands is the definition of a bigger and more personal (for the Bronze Faction) problem.They're also not ludicrously busy, without even the hours or days to spare it takes to interrupt something like this. Twists of Fate have deadlines that're regularly days long. Working personal business while you're 'on the job' is standard Sid praxis.
>>94321718>and because they're being constantly invaded by Getimians (in 3e)Getimians don't really "exist", see 3e heaven write up, they are like terrorist cells.
>>94321835>Getimians don't really "exist"If you mean they don't really 'exist' in that not many people in Heaven know about them and their existence is suppressed information, you're right. However, Sidereals are one of the groups that does know about them and they do seek out and fight them.
>>94321835Uh I've seen it dude, I have no idea what you're trying to say since terrorist cells are very much a thing that exist and they are very pointedly kicking Heaven's shit in.
>>94321846I meant more in the sense they don't have "gravity" and/or setting presence. The war on heaven is more like a bunch of terrorist attacks that could easily be removed.
>>94321881>I meant more in the sense they don't have "gravity" and/or setting presence.They've got more of a presence than Lunars through their impact on Yu Shan, which actually did create real change in the landscape we interact with. The atmosphere in Heaven is very different in 3e, not just more fleshed out, and there being meaningful rebellious elements that aren't just like five guys with super Arcane Fate or homeless mobs of the mentally impaired is part of that.
>>94322070One of the complaints I got from the fancord is that heaven doesn't feel like it is at war.Another was that Getimians only interact with really high concepts from Sidereals, but even them it is one note.
>>94322070>and there being meaningful rebellious elements that aren't just like five guys with super Arcane Fate or homeless mobs of the mentally impaired is part of that.Wait, is this argument pro or anti Getimian?
>>94322097>heaven doesn't feel like it is at warIt's not. It's a war on terror style thing if anything. 'War in Heaven' is out of place and not something anybody in Heaven thinks is happening. I say out of place because war isn't stigmatized and drama-filled in Heaven like it is IRL, so the use of the word to drum up an atmosphere just feels mid.>>94322115>Wait, is this argument pro or anti Getimian?Pro, sorta. The five guys are the questionably-real forbidden gods and the mentally impaired are the homeless gods, as gods devolve into feral near-bestiality when they lose position and sanctum. I think Getimians have the best ideas and implementation of nuxalted (including new infernals, who are basically nuxalted), and would've been worthy of inclusion in the setting if they weren't being called Exalted, but they are still deeply flawed. Lunars are flawed too, though, and they're in roughly the same ballpark in terms of how decent their writing is overall, averaged across all editions.
>>94322211>Lunars are flawed too, though, and they're in roughly the same ballpark in terms of how decent their writing is overall, averaged across all editions.>the same avarage of Lunars across 3 editions.>1e Lunars are included in the calculation of the avarage.>Getimians = (–7+5+6)÷3
I want to make an Alice Marigold, basically a sorceress who has lots of dolls she can use. Question is, Twilight, Pakpao or something else? I feel like if I did make a Twilight, how exactly would I incorporate the dolls?!
>>94323707You can check the rules for automatons over arms of the chosen.>Pakpao vs twilight.This depends on the rest of your table.
>>94318537How would you handle Exigents of the gods of the seasons?
>>94324807Depends if you want Exigent of [season], or Exigent of the Bureau of Seasons.But you can steal from changeling the lost.
>>94324807I would continue to ignore the existence of Exigents, and just make an unusually powerful God-Blooded with unique abilities like "can use Excellencies" and "can manipulate the phenomena/concept like a god"
>>94324807Now that I think about it, if you are playing ExVsWoD, it isn't a good idea to give them the suggested essence recovery.Maybe give them some daily ritual instead of it being tied to the actual seasons.
>>94325974Most of Exigents I saw don't pass the "tips about X?" Phase of homebrewing.It is just a funny thing to brainstorm.
>>94323707>I feel like if I did make a Twilight, how exactly would I incorporate the dolls?!There are a couple of ways you could go about it. Artifice is a good way. Automata are one way to take that, but you could also build them as artifact weapons that your character puppets around to attack with. As a Twilight you could also look into spirit familiars possessing doll bodies, which could be artifacts but don't necessarily need to be, and which would let you go into Survival as your thing. Puppetry, the actual skill of it, probably maps to either Larceny, as it's sleight of hand, or Performance. With Larceny that lets you pull some 'nobody can tell this is a puppet' type disguise+impenetrable sleight of hand type stuff, and with Performance you can dip into the many areas it has available, whether that means Acting and doing something similar to Larceny, or just getting people caught up in your puppet show with Respect-Commanding Attitude. You could, in fact, do all of these things with the same character, though you'd probably be best off starting with just one or two.You could also just go Pakpao, but I'd find it less interesting.
>>94322211Getimians could work as Exalts for me, but they shouldn't be created by a Yozi unless you make them weirder. It's contrived that it Exalts humans when they were fighting on the other side of the war and that they weren't used during it.>>94324807Make them a new type of Exalt rather than an Exigent. I've thought for a while now that Celestial level Exigents should be replaced with a handful of Exalts dedicated to Essence 8+ gods who participated in the Primordial War. Some are dead, others aren't. Since they aren't Incarna, they have a much smaller amount. For example, for Season Exalted, it might be that there is one for each season.
>>94326456>It's contrived that it Exalts humansNah, that part's pretty easy to justify since it was their first success at reverse engineering. The questionable part was them not setting it up so that they were all Akuma, but iirc akuma aren't a thing in 3e so I guess it makes more sense. Some kind of reincarnating demonic urge/curse that was useful for the Yozi would've made sense though.
>>94326586Classic akuma are still a thing, but instead of the word being used for specific thing, it is used for "anybody that do deals with demons".Making the term pretty meaningless.
>>94326614wait, does that mean any old demonologist is now akuma by default?
>>94326586With the introduction of the Spoken, it shows that it shouldn't be too difficult to make them work for non-humans.
>>94322436>Rating 2e Lunars above 0It might not have had the same kind of dumb shit, but the factions, handling of chimerae, and TSR were undeniably some dumb shit. The bar might have been subterranean, but 2e Lunars still only went slightly over it and to the side.
>>94326893I gave them a 5 because they were sculpting rotten wood.1e Lunars got negative number because it is outright detrimental.
>>94326765Akuma and anathema are kind of synonymous now.
I like the idea of powerful beings reverse engineering exaltations and making their own, and their own are wonkier and jury-rigged, but I just don’t like the implementation of Liminals and Getimians.
>In Art Direction>Ex3 Alchemicals(KS)– Getting assets over to Dixie for KS prep.>Layout.>Ex Essence Pillars of Creation>Ex Essence Deeds Yet Undone (Dirt Cheap)Wednesday we get Sidereals.
>>94326819Okay, but that doesn't challenge the point that it was the Primordial's very first successful attempt at Exaltation replication. Fewer variables is better when testing something like that, so it makes sense to start as similar to standard Exalts as possible. They probably weren't able to change it afterwards, with sach going to sleep.
>>94327307And yet the Exaltation process works completely different from every other kind since it Exalts people who don't exist.
>>94327401Presumably that's just how the cookie crumbled when they tried to imitate Sidereals without being able to tie the Exaltations into the Loom of Fate, or something along those lines.
Do you move two rangebands per turn while mounted, from your mounts move action plus your own move action, or just one combined move action? 3e
>>94326456>they shouldn't be created by a Yozi unless you make them weirderFor some reason, this line of thought led me to new ideas about Getiminans I hadn't considered:A) Some Getimians could "come from" timelines where 2E-equivalent Reclamation infernals were a thing, so they'd be aware of the Yozis having potential plans to muck up Creation similarly, or possess other outside knowledge that could shake up the setting. The idea that even just listening to a Getimian's story about their perceived world-of-origin could pollute you makes them much more interesting as adversaries, more dangerous to the Loom and the Heavenly bureaucracy. Sidereals have to track Getimians down before this new kind of Anathema can plant rebellious concepts in Creation that're as dangerous as cognitohazards. B) Some of the above Getimians deciding to try to reach out to the Yozi (or whatever the newest 3E equivalent term is, I can only think of "enemies of the gods" for some reason) to give them the idea of Reclamation. C) Borrowing off the 2E Infernal concept, Getimians whose perceived origin is that they failed so badly at the thing they wanted to do that they were pulled into another reality where they never existed as a consequence. I always liked that villainous "I'll show them all" motivation Infernals had going in 2E, and Getimians are already in a weird "nothing to lose but everything to gain" kind of situation by their nature.
Construct any cool Manses lately?
>>94318537>TQ: What is best in life in Exalted?To see your players strive mightily against the Great Curse, to hold their characters as paragon of virtue. And then, to see them inevitably become drunk on power and prove that the Exalted are inhuman tyrants, with or without the Great Curse.Or more generally, seeing what they DO with all the power they are given.
>>94327738>Construct any cool Manses lately?Yes. Well, I'm the Storyteller, so it's more like I designed and inserted most of them, but some were actual constructions either ongoing or from players.There's a palace on the top of a tall rocky island in a large river, which reaches out to shore and the city built around it with a sturdy stone bridge. It's high walls and steam cannons protect the royal family from foreign aggression and give them a stranglehold on trade. There's a single set of stairs carved into the back of it heading down to a small private dock carved into the cliff-face, and secret tunnels squirrel through the whole of the rock. On the top of the palace's roof is mounted a huge array of mirrors, and throughout the palace mirrors and crystals are set everywhere. When fires or lightstones are set in the correct places, or the sun hits it's zenith, light bounces through the whole palace, setting it glimmering and allowing the hearthstone holder to project huge holographic images above the palace, painting the sky with fire. Inside the palace, glass and crystals are studded or attached to many pieces of furniture - tablecloths, lamps, doors, and so on - which reflect the light from the rooftop array. Those untrained, unattuned, and without the proper corrective lenses are bedazzled by these glittering traps, being distracted from their purpose and dragged into temporary trances whenever they look in the wrong places. The palace's servant force must keep the fires lit through cloudy days, the mirrors and crystals polished, and the lightstones replaced when they are diminished.The circle's assassin very nearly got caught out because of the ADHD traps, and was only fine because she first got stunlocked in the king's private office and knew to be careful afterwards. They're rejiggering it after an explosion to pump up and purify water in the fire-and-light array since the city's wells are pretty shit.
>>94327028>>94327307Remind me again, did 3e remove the bits of lore about Solars being reverse engineered from the true Lintha? Asking half cause I don't remember if 3e did away with that bit of lore and half because this conversation gave me the funny mental image of Kimbery having an aneurism after the Yozi start trying to reverse engineer an Exaltation only to realize they're just souped up versions of Kimbery's chosen race
Is there any way to mount a hearthstone on a ring? As context I kind of wanted to make and distribute a couple rings of power since I figure evocation trees would be pretty cool attached to rings, but it'd be cooler to mount a jewel that's inherently powerful than to just make them exotic ingredients that only really contribute flavor. Hearthstones are the size of chicken eggs though so it sounds like it doesn't work.>>94328336>Remind me again, did 3e remove the bits of lore about Solars being reverse engineered from the true Lintha?Yeah that's not a thing that ever gets mentioned in 3e. Lintha seem to have been downgraded to just having had Divine Heritage, which is sort of like being godblood if you didn't get an essence pool out of it.
>>94328393>Is there any way to mount a hearthstone on a ring?Given the size of most hearthsones? It'd be a very gaudy ring>Lintha seem to have been downgraded to just having had Divine Heritage, which is sort of like being godblood if you didn't get an essence pool out of it.Ah, pity, that's lame
>>94326240I think the simplest thing would be making a dress / a crown / a staff that summons Dolls that can be Familiars, like one per Essence level or something. If you wanted all the Dolls to be the same anyway.Otherwise, it could be that you don't want to model them as familiar, but as army troops.
>>94328743The real simplest thing is to reflavor a whip and go into Thousand Blades.
>>94328796nta but i think the option that'd make people happier is just a rod or some knitting gear that lets you make a bunch of dolls that can work as a battlegroup or as research assistants or something. there's a bunch of charms in the game already like it...
>>94328336>Remind me again, did 3e remove the bits of lore about Solars being reverse engineered from the true Lintha?It's not mentioned at all, from what I recall. There is a lot of shit from older editions that 3e just ignores rather than directly contradicts.Although yeah, the idea of all the Yozis sniggering after they realise they don't have to fuck with the stupid Law of Diminishment shit by just trading quantity for quality and making their own Lintha-equivalant races is funny. God, so many things in 3e weren't thought through well.
Which Aspect is best and why?
>>94329177>the idea of all the Yozis sniggering after they realise they don't have to fuck with the stupid Law of Diminishment shit by just trading quantity for quality and making their own Lintha-equivalant races is funnyAt the end of the day Exalted are basically just behemoths with thematic, growing powersets. The Exaltations themselves are a unique innovation but 'make powerful guys' is something the Primordials were doing way before the Sun sat at the Games of Divinity. For that matter, the Unconquered Sun is himself a behemoth.>>94329296Fire hot.
>>94329296Earth is best waifu/husbando by far
>>94329313Based. Post THAT screencap proving it.
>>94329177The law of diminishment only really exists for Solars and Exigents, it doesn't interact well with the rest of patrons.Umbrals and Spoken too, but the former is apocryphal and the latter nearly so.
>>94329549>it doesn't interact well with the rest of patrons.I was about say Abyssals buthuhYeah, the Neverborn sure as FUCK weren't affected were they? IIRC even the hints about 3e Infernals imply the Yozis found a way to work around it. Kek, Solars (and Exigents) really do suck more than ever in 3e
>>94329572It was more of a Solar wank, "when the Solars were born, it was the first sunset".>Abyssals.Those are just repurposed Solars.>Kek, Solars (and Exigents) really do suck more than ever in 3eThe 3e treatment of Solars and Infernals is spiteful at times.The same people who hate these 2 also hate the thought of Hearteaters existing.
>>94326240>You could also just go Pakpao, but I'd find it less interestingIs it because of the brujah anarch syndrome?
>>94329608>also hate the thought of Hearteaters existing.And yet, Hearteaters ARE in fact a thing. Judging from Cup Boils Over, 3e has a remarkable tendency to put things it allegedly hates into the inviolable and unchangeable splatbooks.
>>94329932Yes, but part of the fanbase fears them being canon, dreading they will warp 3e around themselves. like Solars and Infernals did during 2e.>Cup Boils Over.This is just a railroading tool.
>>94329922I don't know. I'm not a WoD player.Pakpao's less interesting because she's a one-note archetype built to purpose, rather than the Twilight's broad competency being turned towards a specific archetype. The Twilight becomes more interesting simply because you are cutting away options that don't fit your ideal and cultivating paths that do instead of starting with a limited but more complete tree. Dragging together useful techniques from all over to create a cool trope build is always cool.
>>94330364>Pakpao's less interesting because she's a one-note archetype built to purposeBrujah is the clan of rebels inside the camarilla, the anarchs are the rebel faction splitting of from the camarilla.>rest.Understand, 3e feels like it was built on "one trait characters".Artifacts, martial arts, favorite/supernal ability, exaltation, hydra, etc... you character cannot just have or do it, they must be central.
>>94329549>>94329572The creation of the Getimians are the Ex3 reason Oramus to be trapped in his ball/egg state and Sacheverell to be put in his eternal all seeing slumber.
>>94330492I don't think I'll ever get over the loss of the Omnitactical Battle Hydra.
>>94330976That is an incredibly stupid reason that clearly exists for no other reason than to hype up a new splat that doesn't deserve it.
>>94331054Truth. If anything it takes away from the cleverness of the First Age Exalts to figure out that trapping Oramus within his own wings would be the one thing he is unable to escape from. Do we know how Luna and the Maidens were affacted by the Law of Diminishment?
>>94331080Nope. And damn, the Elemental Dragons got a REALLY good deal out of it.
Desu the impression I get from all the books after 3e core is that the developers are quietly trying to pretend the Law of Diminishment, progenitive Essence, "charms not existing" and all the new bizarre and inane things introduced by 3e don't actually exist. If anything Exigence FLAUNTS the Law of Diminishment by suggesting that sometimes, for no apparent rhyme or reason, a god suffers virtually nothing to create his exigence.
How does your exalted character feel about elections?
>>94331283It is a schrodinger cat, like the great curse.
>>94327738>>94329296>>94331405What causes this behavior?
>>94332113Slow thread, wants to prop up discussion.
>>94329296all aspects are best... at their specific arenas of aptitudenarratively i'm unsure of best but earth and wood annoy me the most. our plans will never progress while the earth is loudly yelling about the instruction manuals and the social contract and the wood has to fuck up by being "themselves" first before doing something useful
>>94331283>>94331405it's what bugs me most about exigence, the fact of it being married to the 3e writing zeitgeist of any extra detail being too much or unwanted detail. if they were a 2e construction, we'd have precise understanding of how diminishment affects a god, what leeway their is, what survival of the god entails, how powerful the exigent should be, and setting info that didn't boil down to "they often are mercenaries or hang out at great forks"
>>94332492If there's one thing I've learned from 3E, it's that I massively prefer settings that over explain things to ones that under explain things. If I don't like a detail about a setting I can change it, in fact it'll often get me thinking about how I can change it, how that'd affect the other details, what knock on effects it'd have, etc, when something has little to no details I have no idea what to do with it. I suppose am just very much the sort of person who prefers lego blocks to a blank canvas when running a game
>>94332492I'm normally a pretty big 3e defender (Gets are unironically one of my favorite splats that's how far gone I am) but I cannot fucking stand its design ethos of being vague and mysterious on fucking everything. Especially when it's clearly a cartoonishly ham-fisted reaction to 2e overexplaining SOMETIMES.
>>94330976I find it funny two Primordials working together to create a relatively small amount of Exalts got fucked harder than the Unconquered Sun and Luna.
>>94329313>most boring element>best waifuLiterally why? Fire Aspects are the hottest bitches. Passionate seductive swordswoman athletes.
>>94333404
>>94333464I formally apologise to the 2000 IQ Gigachads who recognised the overwhelming superiority of Earth Aspect Wives and will henceforth delegate all f*re aspect concubines to minor administration, grape-serving and fanning duties in the harem. Who ever wrote this? *U-unf*.
>>94329296Wate->>94333464Earth.
>>94333375Funnily enough, the reason for why Getimians have 2 patrons is that the devs forgot which primordial was whichWhich explains why Getimians don't have neither themes.
>>94332492>>943325753e vindicated motonic physics. That's how bad the constant vagueposting and under-delivery are.>>94333706I distinctly remember at one point it was supposed to be Oramus and ISIDOROS instead of Oramus and Sachaverrall before the release of 3e core, so I think there were always going to be 2 Yozis involved. It's just that which 2 got changed.
>>94333955If we take Holden in consideration, the preview was referring to Revelers and Nightmares.Those 2 were reworked to be Dream-Souled and Umbrals.
>>94330985Why did you love it so much?
3e: Is there any reason you can't use Spirit-Tempering Practice to build up to 50+ temporary Willpower and just nuke the ever-loving shit out of people with Flight of the Brilliant Raptor?
>>94333464not even at strength 16 is this bitch throwing a building. sorry earthoid, in exalted you can either push her down or you can't
>>94334204It makes Dawns feel like undisputed masters of combat in the same way that Supernal abilities don't. As you grow in Essence, your Supernal ability become less and less relevant as other people are able to buy up higher Essence charms. With combat abilities not being cross compataible, Dawns are incentivised to grab a single primary combat abilty and maybe a secondary one so they can have both a close and ranged option, having Archery, Brawl, Melee, and Thrown in Ex3 is redundant. Having the OTBH instead allows Dawns to be the undiputed masters of all forms of combat, which at the very least gives them a choice of having all four combat abilities and not having it feel like a waste. Being able to swap weapons out on the fly to engage people in a variety of ways givesa core build identity and a neat aesthetic, and having War be the cornerstone ability that ties it all together gives that ability some much needed use for when you have no followers or when you simply can't call on them due to story contrivances.The Versatile keyword in Sidereals is neat but only allows you to combine a single ability with MA and was completely underutilised in Abyssals besides.
>>94336083Versatile keyword is theorized to be a preemptive nerf for Getimians.
>>94335378Is this the pro house or anti house argument?
>>94336275Now that you mention it, they do get the ability to freely combine attribute charms with SMA, don't they? They even get conditional Enlightenment with the latter. I mostly think that the Versatile keyword exists so Sids feeel the the master martial artist splat and not force them to take MA as their only combat ability.
How many 3rd Edition solars would be needed to take down 1 Quixalted Solar.
>>94337034you have to understand, retards who say 3e solars are weak are thinking of things like "oh they don't get the parry meteor charm" or shit about presence charms, but 3e solar melee/brawl/Larceny is out of this fucking world and basically no published enemies in the game can go 2 rounds against a well optimized solar. from what I know about Quixalted, they'd pretty much curb stomp them because of their insanely high dice pools.when it comes to ranged, I think Quixalted probably wins, better kiting strategies and they have a bigger range.
>>94337311How do artifacts work in quixalted anyway like how many am I allowed? is it just how many I can attune to. I don't remember.Also yes I'm pretty sure the Quisolar can combo some crazy shit together and knock out a bunch of solars. However it would be mote intensive. Kiting though? I dunno 3esolars have some nasty kiting.
>>94337335I meant that melee 3e solars would destroy Quixalted solars pretty much. Quixalted is easier to optimize, but 3e has a way higher ceiling.also idk, I don't know quixalted too well.
>>94337358>higher ceilinghuh? how? You can say 3olars can get past 25 dice but 1 die in quixalted =/= 1 die in 3e.
>>943375853e Solars can get stupid amount of dice and successes.
>>94332113What drives a man to attempt to start a discussion? Money? Lust for power? Or maybe they were just born with a heart full of questions.
>>94337928I don't understand why Holdorke didn't addres it, buckets of dice and "you threw hundreds of successes but only did 3 damage" were some of the biggest complaints about exalted system.
>>94337928A quixalted character rolling ten successes does quite a lot more than a 3e character rolling one hundred successes. In QE ten successes is unlimited power, perfect defense, grapple a black hole, rip the world in two sort of thing. In 3e it'll blow someone up and you can probably throw a mountain but it's really not on par.The only thing on par with ten successes in QE that 3e has is a Solar's craft roll going infinite.
>>94337311To be fair, the other 3 3e Solar combat abilities are so fucking weak that even Ride is more powerful than all of them combined.>and basically no published enemies in the game can go 2 rounds against a well optimized solarOne, that's more of a testament to how underwhelming the published enemies in 3e are than anything. Two, I can actually think of one: Gajam-Un, the godzilla-toad-living manse thing from Hundred Devils Night Parade. Someone actually did run the numbers for it here, and not only is the Solar not GUARANTEED to 2-turn the big bastard, not only is it basically the only viable option, but also the game goes out of it's way to state it is flat-out unkillable even with GET and that thou MUST use the game-specified way of dealing with it (sealing) instead of say-cutting it's insensate form into a thousand pieces, or developing a stronger GET.If we're being pedantic, there are some NPC-only abilities that can change the environment on a grand scale in 3e too that could-theoretically-poison or drown a minmaxed Brawl 3e Solar before he goes into deathroll-range.
>>94337928This >>94339487, the problem is in 3e I'm not sure if 30 dice is enough to throw a mountain with a normal action while in QE 10 dice is Silver Age Superman-level shit. The fallacy here is equating the dice results of fundamentally different systems.
>>94339620>but also the game goes out of it's way to state it is flat-out unkillable even with GET and that thou MUST use the game-specified way of dealing with it (sealing) instead of say-cutting it's insensate form into a thousand pieces, or developing a strongerFor all the "anti-tolkienesque" exalted writers really love the "invincible unless plot device" trope.
>>94339645Remember: Even if they eventually ran it back, SOMEONE decided Zeal was a good idea at one point lmao
>>94339620>>94339645I don't mind needing extra requirements to kill, but being completely unkillable unless it's something like the Neverborn is dumb. The reason why I don't mind extra requirements is because some things die weird. You aren't forcing something to die that can't, it's just they don't die the same way a human won't if you stab them in a place where they don't suffer from organ damage or bleed out from.
>>94339857>I don't mind needing extra requirements to kill, but being completely unkillable unless it's something like the Neverborn is dumbYeah, exactly this. Like I would be absolutely fine if "an orichalcum/moonsilver/starmetal/whatever blade, consecrated in the light of the sun/moon/stars, aimed where Primor-sorry, ANCIENT flesh touches it's mechanical components can deal a mortal wound" was the condition but instead of doing something actually fun and creative they just railroad you into making this damn thing a fixture. And will probably whine about "muh wordcount" if called on it.
>>94339620I think I might be weird in that I think GET should only be a spirit-killer, not a perma-killer. I don't think it's intended purpose should be to make immortals killable or to, like, make it so that when you hit a lich they're permadead instead of able to recover in their phylactery. I'd prefer Exalted to be a world where you can play with various kinds of immortality and for there to be a point to doing so, rather than get them all invalidated under the too-broad scope of spirit-killers killing everything.
>>94340357I might have shared your worldview if "different kind of immortality" was a coherent or consistent theme established by the game, instead of (like most things in 3e) an off the cuff afterthought used to make an enemy type slightly harder for a Melee/Brawl build to deal with. It doesn't help that, going purely by RAW, Abyssals have several immortality-killer Charms that have absolutely no truck with spirits or non-spirits. If it kills you, you just get drawn into Oblivion. No ifs or buts.
>>94337311For lack of anything better to talk about, I will now post some other anon's breakdown of the only relevant Solar combat abilities (and Archery) vs Gajam-Un: The strongest NPC statted in 3e to date. https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/81798363/#81831922TLDR: Archery is mathematically helpless against the power of 25 Soak, Brawl has two roads to victory: 1. Put the thing in a grapple to shred it's defences and blow motes shaking it down, and 2. get into a punchout in which half your attacks are likely going to miss (and so therefore you'll probably want a Twilight donating motes to you during it); both are high-risk high-reward routes where if you roll well it's potentially a one-turn kill and if you roll poorly you're fucked and your allies are likely out of better options, and Melee is extremely cucked in terms of sufficient damage output (the guy made a point of shitting on Divine Executioner Stance though) and basically has to go for a prolonged battle farming initiative off Gajam-Un's attacks. If Gajam crashes, he's fucked. If he doesn't, the Solar is fucked.
>>94337311It is true to say that 3e Solars are weak, but that statement needs to be qualified and analysed the same way that Obi-Wan saying Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker was only true from a certain point of view. 3e Solars are strong in the context of POTENTIALLY, from chargen, having highly specific toolkits that can let them deal with foes that can wipe cities off the map and melt swathes of territory to lava with their Godzilla-expy breath at an age when some previous editions' Solars were struggling to deal with lone Dragonblooded. They are weak in that 1. OUTSIDE that HIGHLY specific toolkit, their Charms are crippled by bad design and bloat, 2. they are extremely weak to the narratively vague Legendary Size that can be anything from Tyrant Lizard-sized to Godzilla-sized which prior editions' Exalts were not, 3. there are more foes than just Deathlords that Solars apparently cannot kill no matter what and out of all of them only one was considered to be a Creation-destroying threat, 4. their raw power is capped at E5 and they explicitly have no further to grow beyond written Charms, and 5. 3e's focus on narrative events means that there are situations where 3e Solars have a harder time (or at least, if you make the simulationist argument, pay more motes) parrying bandits than falling meteors. It would be more accurate to say that while a 3e Solar can punch a lot harder than a 1e/2e Solar right after taking his second breath, a 1e/2e Solar also has much more reliable Perfect Defences, has much fewer problems strangling a Tyrant Lizard with his bare hands, and if never killed will one day be much stronger than a 3e Solar can ever dream of being.You can't even use the 3e Solars having the best showing out of any editions' Solars in the Usurpation as evidence, because NO Exalt type is allowed to raise the raw power of their Charms above Essence 5. So everyone was nerfed in that situation.
Besides Auto-kun and Malfeas, do any of the other Yozi/Primordials have shown any extra canonical Jouten than their iconic one or their humaniform Jouten?I'm thinking of another forms of Cecelyne or Qaf that you could see wandering either in their World Bodies or in Malfeas' layers for reasons. Mostly as background scenery.
>>94337311>>94340422(Also as pointed out early in the thread, the real way to defeat Gajam-Un is to make it voluntarily submit to sealing by sandbagging it indefinitely with Respect-Commanding Attitude)
>>94340437Isidoros had something referred as a One-Eyed Apocalypse Jouten (probably another Balor reference) in Shards.
>>94340448There's no reference to a single eye, but yeah he has an apocalypse jouten.
>>94340435>It would be more accurate to say that while a 3e Solar can punch a lot harder than a 1e/2e Solar right after taking his second breathPoint of order chargen is months after Exalting. That said, I think even though your entire argument is about the effects of charm potency in 1e/2e outweighing the ability to accellerate through trees in 3e you still underestimate the power charms held in 1e/2e. A 3e Solar can have more Melee charms in chargen than a 1e/2e Solar, sure, but that 1e/2e Solar doing equally optimal things is Essence 3 with perfect, scenelong, and either (in 2e) infinite ability mastery or (in 1e) enough Soak that most attacks don't do damage.
>>94340454>Point of order chargen is months after ExaltinYou know what, that's fair. I'm mixing up Exaltation rules between editions slightly.>charm potencySure. I accept that the "foolproofness" of 1e/2e is far superior, the only thing I'm giving credit for in 3e is a much greater ability to influence things on a large scale. That even though God-King's Shrike is a nerfed version of Cast Out From Beyond Regard, the latter is Performance 8 E8, and the former can be gotten from 3e. That's a difference of /centuries/ between how long it takes 2e Solars and 3e Solars to attain the power to wipe cities off the map with a single Charm. In a similar vein, the mere existence of Sorcerous Workings means that 3e Solars don't have to wait for hypothetical beyond-E7 workings to actualise something like the Salinian Working (even if it does also mean that in-universe, the Salinian Working was "just" a very advanced feat of sorcery rather than something that challenged the very boundaries of what sorcery could accomplish at all). The 1e/2e Solar gets to be the unstoppable force and the immovable object, but the 3e Solars gets to burn entire battlefields to ash or cross mountain ranges in minutes within the same timeframe it takes the 1e/2e Solar to learn several more Charms of the same Essence ranking.
>>94340453>When Isidoros unleashed his apocalypse-jouten, obliterating countless armies in a blink of his dread eye?The way it is worded it seems that it only has a single eye.
>>94340466But 2E already had Adamant Circle sorcery to obliterate cities.
>>94340437>>94340448>>94340453IIRC, Isidoros also has a portal form that connects to his world form (a flame ringed portal or something IIRC), though he hates taking it, and I think Shards also mentions Hegra's got a nebula form, but that could just be her storm form in space. According to Ink Monkeys she's also been known to take the form of a compulsion or emotion that spreads across multiple demons
>>94340482In both editions you need E5 to wield Adamant Circle Sorcery. My point is in 3e, you can get CHARMS that wipe cities from chargen. Also let's be real, some of those spells are just ass. Total Annihilation for example is sized more like a realistic nuke than what it's name implies.>>94340478You can have two or more dread eyes and just blink one, you know
>>94340494That's all correct even if the Shards mention is more of an inference, Isidoros does indeed do the thing Darkseid does in DC comics where his boar form is merely an avatar of his true glory and per Shards Hegra does apparently have a nebula shintai
>>94340437Adorjan has a creepy girl form.> On occasion, Adorjan distills her essence down into the shape of a woman, long-fingered and large-eyed, with black pageboy hair and teeth of white jade. Her voice never rises above a whisper, but that whisper can cut across a room, a battlefield or the entire Demon City. In this shape, she may lay hands on others without killing them, using her dagger, Iluske Gale-Tooth, when killing must be done. In this form, she lay with a Solar Exalted inis dreams and gave birth to seven daughters. Three of those daughters traveled to the mortal world. The other four cast off their human forms and now blow through the Demon City, each a lesser echo of the great Silent Wind.
>>94340482>>94340503City destruction with a single spell starts being realistic at sapphire circle sorcery, rather than adamant.>the mere existence of Sorcerous Workings means that 3e Solars don't have to wait for hypothetical beyond-E7 workings to actualise something like the Salinian WorkingThis is more sorcerous workings being misbalanced than anything; the top levels aren't really supposed to be something you can reliably do, and E5 in 3e is the top of the scale - the Salinan Working is not put at the top of 2e's scale. It takes longer to get to adamant circle sorcery in 3e than it does in 1e/2e because of essence progression being tied to total XP instead of purchaseable.>The 1e/2e Solar gets to be the unstoppable force and the immovable object, but the 3e Solars gets to burn entire battlefields to ash or cross mountain ranges in minutes within the same timeframe it takes the 1e/2e Solar to learn several more Charms of the same Essence ranking.The same essence ranking isn't the same amount of experience or time in-game. An Essence 1 Solar doesn't exist in 1e/2e, the minimum out of chargen is E2. You're often coming out of chargen at Essence 3 or 4. The chargen sorcerer might very well have picked up sapphire circle sorcery and have access to city-burning spells, and the chargen melee guy has Grass-Cutting Strike, in which case he actually is cutting down everybody within fifty yards with a single attack.
>>94340659Look, strictly speaking nothing you said is wrong, but I'm really just unimpressed by the effects of the 2e Adamant OR Sapphire Circle spells-in particular, how long they take to cast and how many motes go into them-compared to the efficiency of the city-wiping E5 Charms in 3e. What's even the example here, Magma Kraken? That's 50 yards wide. Like if you're being really pdedantic yeah I guess lorewise the fire could spread and burn down a city, but it's really not the same as being able to just blow up Gem with one Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike-powered punch. I just genuinely cannot think of a Sapphire Circle Spell that lives up to the hype of "city-wiping spell" without ifs and buts attached.If you want to cite Under the Rose's precedent of N/A artifacts being able to buff the effects of sorcery to an arbitrary degree, then I get to point out that 3e Craft lets you churn out multiple N/A artifacts in a month, using your bare fucking hands, right outside your backyard. Just because the devs were THAT determined to ignore all their system limitations when trying to figure out how to make a Solar seem good at them
>>94339487Ten successes with a 10 in the Trait you mean, and not in opposed roles, and only for Action worthy things.
>>94339857The whole point of GET is to cut the knot, and no example ever dies weird.
>>94340772to clarify, 10 successes in QE isn't super duper unstoppable, it's not too insurmountable to achieve and even Dragonblooded can do that. Also in QE, you succeed on a 1 and critically succeed on a 5. Only with things like Setup, opposed Actions or certain mechanics do successes over 5 substantially count toward anything. It's similar to 3e in that regard, because outside of combat or Craft, having a shit tonne of successes doesn't matter that much. Hell, Essence is the only one that really gives you lots of rewards for excess successes. What you guys are thinking of is the Trait number. Exalts can only reach a Trait number of 9 or 10 if they have Essence 4 or 5 respectively and their Overwhelming works on a 1:1 ratio with their Essence. Also, this Trait stuff doesn't tend to interact with the system in game terms much outside of Athletics, the rest is sort of fluff or ad-hoc adjudicating that "Hey, you have 10 Investigation, so maybe you just figure out this city's dark secret when you hear some old coot talk about how his favourite squeeze at the local Ladyhouse seems to have gone missing" QE Solars are good, and are usually stronger than any other Exalts on average, but unless you get a little FREAKY with Supernatural 5 or start messing around with the imho cumbersome Mandate of Heaven System, they aren't monumentally stronger than 3e Solars. The lifting mountain stuff QE Solars can do is cool, but the infinite Craft Successes thing you can do at like Essence level 3 in 3e and the lack of hard Source rules totally crushes QE Solar Craft. The War Charms where they can just automatically declare your strategy is useless without rolling is also really strong.
>>94340437this reminds me of the lovely piece of lore that you could randomly find yozi's just lamenting their woes in whorehouses in malfeas in their joutens, from GoD. just imagine going into The Muff and Mara brothel and She Who Lives In Her Name is in the corner doing a weird autistic fetish.
>>94340679>What's even the example here, Magma Kraken?Honestly I'm unsure what they do in 2e, only that it's possible lore-wise because they've got the Chair of the Convention of Air's second in line being executed for doing it. In 1e the same thing happened, but it was using Cantata of Empty Voices, which had a range of half a mile per Essence at the time and would happily kill everyone within that range, especially if you prepped up with Wheel of the Turning Heavens or something, but it had it's range nerfed to shit in 2e.
>>94340841Yeah, it's...that would explain a lot since desu I haven't looked at the 1e spell versions. But in 2e Cantata's range is 100 YARDS and Wheel only extends to EssenceX100 YARDS.These spells can only kill very, very small cities even if everything goes right.
>>94340888>Wheel only extends to EssenceX100 YARDS.That part's close enough at half a mile flat. The reason you set it up first is because it stops people looking around to find you and then subsequently bumrushing you. There is no saving throw or option to spend willpower to break out like in 2e though, as per 1e's more unforgiving paradigm. You have a Dex + Awareness to realise what's happening and look away in time, and that's it.
>>94340947Okay but, I feel like we're really skewing away from my point that it's just much faster to wipe the city when you can just fire a Charm than when you have to worry about wonky sorcery rules and do all this hemming and hawing with MULTIPLE spells jesus christ sorcery is fucking uselessEspecially when Craft can just do whatever the fuck it wants at N/A rank lmao
>>94340954>do all this hemming and hawing with MULTIPLE spells jesus christ sorcery is fucking useless???It's just Cantata of Empty Voices going off that kills the city. You use multiple spells here because they have synergy and help ensure the powerful effect goes out in full. Are you telling me that your Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike is going to be just Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike turn one off the back of a no-charm Join Battle, or are you just acting like this is confusing because it's good for your argument to pretend that multiple effects are only a problem when sorcery does it?>it's just much faster to wipe the city when you can just fire a Charm than when you have to worry about wonky sorcery rulesYour 'just use a charm' method of destroying a city is significantly more wonky since you're relying on both janky rangeband rules and janky initiative rules to be squidged in your favor.
>>94340984>janky rangeband rules and janky initiative rules to be squidged in your favor.Not in the case of God-King's Shrike, it very explicitly describes several wide-scale disasters even if like many things in 3e it refuses to give specific ranges. As for Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike, I'll cede to a consistent interpretation when the devs cop to what "long rage" is actually supposed to be in real units. They haven't after years. And, AND they've stated than Athletic Charms CAN enhance other ones like Dragon Coil Technique. If that's how they want to play ball, I'm not going to apologise for interpreting the system however I like when the system itself directly tells you to.>or are you just acting like this is confusing because it's good for your argument to pretend that multiple effects are only a problem when sorcery does it?No, I'm going to act like this is confusing because in in-game time, putting several Charms into that specific Charm takes much less time for the Exalt to do, IN THE SETTING, than two sapphire circle spells. In the case of God-King's Shrike the situation is reversed where I will freely concede that it takes way longer than even sorcery to pull off, but on the other hand it's also literally just one (1) Charm.Jesus, I don't even understand why you're this mad. I don't WANT to defend 3e. All I'm doing is putting the wonky rules and the wonky Charms on the table to show that this is a thing 3e Solars can do from chargen, and this is a thing 2e Solars can. From chargen. CHARGEN. I would not bring this up if the scope of 3e starting Solaroids wasn't so expanded by Supernal/Apocalyptic and did not require specialised sorcerous know-how beyond an Exalt's baseline charmset.
>>94340984Also to the extent i matters I want to point out I very specifically said "wipe cities of the map" not "kill everyone in the city", and was pointing out the overall destructive power of certain Charms rather than just killing people with sadness overdose. In a very, very limited radius per 2e.
What kind of tastes does your character have?
>>94341009>God-King's ShrikeHadn't noticed you mention it before. It's entirely narrative and up to the Storyteller for one thing, and for another it's many times more involved than just casting a spell and killing everyone within a couple miles.>putting several Charms into that specific Charm takes much less time for the Exalt to do, IN THE SETTING, than two sapphire circle spellsIt's not significantly faster. They're both going off within a couple of rounds, since you need to farm initiative in 3e and cast sorcery in 2e. Also, please stop harping on this 'two spells' rubbish when it was only ever one spell doing damage, and Wheel of Turning Heavens was only ever brought up as an 'it'd be nice if' defensive option.
>>94340817>and She Who Lives In Her Name is in the corner doing a weird autistic fetish.>Party's face when they go to a brothel in Malfeas and they realize the crystal woman off in one of the rooms is SWLiHN and she's having a train run on her, as in an actual model train set being set up and run over her body
>>94340799It doesn't let you cut the knot, it lets you kill what is unkillable. There is a difference.
>>94341719The knot is the immortality, GET breaks the story, despite not being overpowered.It would give a reason for the Deathlords to fear the Exalted, instead of "fear/replaced but not really".
>>94342001Yeah, it's cool that GET can't be used to destroy the Yozi or Neverborn but the Deathlords are kind of supposed to be on the same tier as 3CDs who *can* be destroyed by GET. SO it kind of raises the question of "What's the point of it, then?"Maybe they should've added a stipulation that it can't be used on spirits of a higher essence rating?
>>94342022It ends with 2e Infernals issue of "it could only be used on first circles for most of the campaign", specially with 3e Essence progression paradigm.
>>94342022Dumb idea. Have it be a Koshchei the Deathless situation where the Deathlords can't be permakilled because their death is inside a Neverborn's tomb. You literally have to go inside one to permanently kill a Deathlord.
>>94342039>It ends with 2e Infernals issue of "it could only be used on first circles for most of the campaignNta, but could you explain this one? As far as I'm aware the Infernal's GET equivalents just can't be used on Yozi, if you can somehow nail a 3CD's last health level with one at E2 it works fine
>>94342095I don't remember well, but it was a complaint about Cecelyne charmset.Some charms could only target beings of lower essence ratings than the Infernals themselves. I.e Essence 1 or 2.
>>94342155Oh, yeah, no, that's only for social effects, it has nothing to do with GET or combat, and it's only a single charm, Demonic Primacy of Essence, (albeit the charm's needed for most of her social tree)The charm grants a bonus to social combat based on the essence difference, and the weaker party treats said social attack as a UMI, but it applies both ways, so you can mindwhammy demons weaker than you, but demons stronger than you will mindwhammy you You can still use all her other charms on demons stronger than you fine, including all her combat charms, it's just her social charms are all based on the principle of the "strong should obey the weak" so they tend to do nothing against something of higher essence than you, that's the only one that grants a penalty though, your target having a higher essence in most other cases means they won't ignore you, won't give you motes if they attack you, or you can't UMI order them to get back to work, etc
>>94342155Popped in mid conversation and only after I typed >>94342421 up did I read what you're replying to, but yeah, the complaints about Cecelyne's charms are wholly due to the one that gives a penalty (like with other Yozi charms that inflict a penalty I've noticed).I do see your point about it not being useful against foes of higher essence that way, my suggestion for the system to accommodate an effect like that would be to either beef up spirits a bit (just enough to make them a challenge to Solars of similar essence, but not a major one unless they're supposed to be a combat monster), have charms like that be a universal "Kill this thing" to beings of equal or lower essence but leave more exotic ways to kill stuff in (that are actually doable and cool), or have multiple GET effects with different clauses (like some only work on beings of lower essence, some only work on Creatures of Darkness, etc)
>>94341585lewd, what a degenerate.also trains dont exist in creation (anymore?) so that mind bending, lol.
>>94344004>also trains dont exist in creation (anymore?) so that mind bending, lol.I mean, while I'm pretty sure they haven't been mentioned in 3E, 3E also hasn't said either Solar Monorail Chirmirajen nor the Midnight Express DON'T exist, so there's still a nonzero chance there's a glowing golden monorail that's a friend to all children still flying across the skies of Creation
>>94344004I would hope that Nexus still has it's trains in 3e, at least.They don't have steam engines but their pulley and rail systems get pretty advanced for all that they can't maintain them outside cities.
>>943441273e has a train in Yu-Shan that goes...pretty slow...
What's the easiest way to kill the metaphysical concepts that are preventing me from doing whatever I like?
>>94345971Organize a massive mondo pilgrimage to a Shinma with your Faerie friends. Be warned, should The Wyld figure out what you're doing, you will face the full might of the cosmos, not only from the Paragons of the Wyld but elsewhere that might not trust you messing around with the firmware. But maybe you'll get away with it. Hey, you DO have the right Lore AND Occult score to even parse the pseudo HinduHiberian lore riiiight?
The Lover described in the corebook of 3rd seems really different than the Lover described in Arms of the Chosen onward. What's up with that?
>>94346041Why would the wyld give a shit about you messing with creation
>>94346052Shinma are sacred to the wyld and define the wyld and much of its powers, so the wyld isn't going to take your PCs "Im just tweaking creation brooo" seriously
>>94346092>Shinma are sacred to the wyld and define the wyld and much of its powersExcept for, y'know, all of the wyld
>>94346100NTA but you tripping.
>>94346100it's called Taming the Shinma not RAPING the shinma bro...they have a process and tradition in the Wyld, and some city slicking Solar with his fancy Creation boots can't just mosey on in and give Nirguna a wedgie without some resistance.
Can't Quixalted solars combine ways together to put out uber powerful attacks? (Like overwhelming + triumphant) Been a while since I read the splat so correct me if I'm wrong.
>>94346202I have literally looked at Qwixalted once and even I know that, and know it's not exclusive to Solars. Maybe read the free PDF in the OP or find interesting things to ask you fucking moron.
>>94345971>easiest waySwap seats with the Storyteller.
>>94346045How is the lover different?
>>94346045The guys who developed the corebook got fired. New des with a different vision stepped up.
>>94346793This is her from 3e core, not much to go on but seemed to lean her toward being something of a druglord type character who punishes those for not fulfilling their passions. Later interpretations made her more of a generic ice queen sundae with a few bizarre legacy sex sprinkles.>>94346993Shame, they did alright with the other Deathlords but bottled the Lover big time.
>>94346202yeah, most Exalt splats can do that, Solars have the best dice trick and best straightforward scaling.
>>94321065Forgotten I had this, thanks.
>Martial art invented by a DeathlordWhy can’t we have MAs invented by Fae and demons?
>>94351413>Why can’t we have MAs invented by FaeLaughing Monster Style and (possibly) Quicksilver Hand of Dreams Style.>Why can’t we have MAs invented by demons?Black Claw Style and (possibly) Infernal Monster Style>Why [don't] we have MAs invented by [various beings of power]?Because Martial Arts are a human invention even if the Maidens may have known them first, and more specifically an invention of the Exalted. They're not instinctual or intuitive for anybody, taking effort and strange integration of skills. It's similar to how there aren't that many sorcerers among spirits despite them having the best opportunities to learn and relatively high skill ceilings.
>>94334553Flight resets you to base initiative. Unless you can routinely hit people with no extra initiative then nope, go ahead. But you can only use the charm once a scene so tits a lot of prep work for not a great result
>>94351832>Flight resets you to base initiative. Unless you can routinely hit people with no extra initiative then nope, go aheadI think you think that this was asking if you could get lots of willpower so that you could throw out Flight of the Brilliant Raptor a lot of times in a row. That's not what I was asking at all. Flight of the Brilliant Raptor's damage is based on initiative + temporary willpower. The point of the combo is that you get to throw decisive attacks with 50+ damage dice every round without relying on initiative at all.
>>94351413It's possible that we could get a SMA in Infernals, but I honestly wouldn't mind if we got a double portion of Solar spells instead.
>>94352002But still only if you can hit reliably when reset to base initiative
>>94354846Initiative doesn't effect accuracy. Being at low initiative doesn't make it harder to hit with that, though. Initiative doesn't effect your attack roll and hardness is beaten by damage pool, not initiative. If you can't hit them on low initiative you can't hit them on high initiative so you're shit out of luck either way.
>>94348143Yeah that's I thought. Quixalted solars are insane compared to 3e solars.
>>94347269>ShameI've said it before, but this is the consistent trend with 3e's writing direction. Just as Werewolf the Forsaken can be seen as a reactionary kneejerk rejection of Werewolf the Apocalypse, 3e comes across like Exalted being ashamed of everything that made it famous, for good and bad. And that's a terrible way to write an "epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them"
3e: Does Chaos-Warding Prana work against Wyld exposure like an Excellency where you just use it when a roll comes up to perfectly resist the roll, then it doesn't effect you until the next interval, or does it just delay the interval and you still roll Wyld exposure immediately once Chaos-Warding Prana wears off?
>>94333404Your wife being good at killing and seducing people isn't desirable. Her being able to craft artifacts and be loyal is.
>>94356831>Your wife being good at killing and seducing people isn't desirable.Have you never heard of a hot dom?
>>94356899Doms aren't hot to me.
>>94356831>Bad news, your wife is far better at killing and seducing people than you>Good news, she's still loyal to you>Worse news, she's got an NTR kink>Good(?) news, she wants you to bull in all her fantasies
>>94356905Traditionally, the wife is the dominant partner in a Dragonblood marriage. You think the Earth Aspect is going to flaunt tradition?
>>94358289As I've said before, >>94333464 but max str, no better DB waifu than one that'll hammer you into the ground with hips as strong and unrelenting as the weight of the mountain
I like Solars and think their concept is great, I think a lot of Solar charms are kind of shit though. What are some underrated Solar charms that are thematically interesting, not really covered by other splats and stuff you'd wish they'd get more of?For me, it's lifting giant things and throwing them. Even Hill-Hurling Method or w/e didn't let you pick up and throw hills and mountains. I love throwing mountains, or lifting them. It's simple, cool and great!
>>94358741Occult charms that aren't sorcery or yet more ways to attack things. All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight as the only example from 1e, and an underrated one. Eclipsing the Sun and Power from Darkness from 2e are both cool and generally looked over for Integrity charms or the Eclipse anima power, and while they aren't underrated Black Mirror Revelation and Primordial Principle Emulation are both very powerful concepts to throw out there. In 3e, I look at Uncanny Shroud Defense, Soul Projection Method, and Ephemeral Induction Technique.What I'd really like to see is for the Ability to go into mundane occult practices and take them to higher extremes, rather than just be something you use to get access to 'real magic' and then ignore. It should have more power to analyze things, at least, and in more precise ways. I'd also appreciate official charms that had spells or thaumaturgies as prerequisites, to show Solar excellence taking magic further than rote, to take us back into the Ability rather than dipping and diving, and to allow more specialization for magicians.
>>94358741The Omni Tactical Battle Hydra charm design of 2.5e is something I miss sorely. As you go up in Essence your Supernal ability becomes less relevant and I feel like Dawns are hurt by that the most. Ever other Solar caste can make a decent build out of any five of their eight caste abilities but when was the last time you saw a Dawn with Archery, Brawl, Melee, Thrown, and War?
>>94356905agreed.
Are the Man of Clay and the First of the Jadeborn the same being?
>>94360772I think they are different beings, I don't remember the jadeborn being mentioned in CoW.Correct me if I am wrong.
>>94358741One of the few things I approve of from 3e is the fact that Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique actually lets you fucking leap across mountain ranges in a vaguely narrative timespan of minutes.
>>94358289>TraditionallyI reject 3e's lies.
>>94360772Kind of. The Clay Man, after Exalted: the Fair Folk, is the First Jadeborn after being tortured horribly by the Primordials (being taken apart and put back together again several times over).
>>94361895Isn’t 2E’s multi mile jump mode then sufficient for that? Everest is only like 6 miles tall.
>>94361895Was about to ask what >>94362158 said, yeah, I'm pretty sure you can jump mountains in given the distances involved in 2E's version of Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique (it's Essence * 5, and given the requirements, that's a minimum of 20 miles in one leap)
>>94361895>One of the few things I approve of from 3e is the fact that Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique actually lets you fucking leap across mountain ranges in a vaguely narrative timespan of minutes.Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique's so vague in 3e that it's overland speed could be anywhere from 10mph to 60000mph such that the only real answer that adheres fully to it's intent is to actually use rangeband rules. Ordinary rangeband rules don't let you travel further than your unobstructed line of sight whether you move five rangebands or twenty (as there is no range beyond 'extreme' which is anything longer than long but closer than the horizon), which means you could cross mountain ranges (especially if you started on top of a mountain) but aren't going at the extremely ridiculous speed a high interpretation would indicate.
Rate my Penumbra he’s a disowned noble from House Peleps and is a suave and confident braggart with a crippling fear of intimacy and fear people will figure out he’s a complete fraud and is neither suave nor confident.
Sincere thoughts about Zeniths and other priestly castes? What to like or dislike? How would you change them?
>>94365887I like them. I thinhk I'd prefer they be more god-kings and revolutionaries instead of priests, but I think that their primary problem is their perceived overlap with Eclipse Castes as The Social Guy
>>94366183Understand.>God-kingsWhat does it mean? The portrayal of power is always so secular even in the dreams of the first age sections of the caste books.
>>94365887I like them, though I kinda wish there was some suggestions as to what you could do with focusing on the priest thing, other than focusing on the basics, would help them differentiate themselves from Eclipses if the books gave examples of how to use prayer and performances so they're not just diplomates, but for the gods
>>94365887I like them as prophets and holy men, or as Pharoah-style divine kings. They also make great advocates for traditional morality also the decadence of the Dragonblooded, something that ironically works even better with 3E’s attempt to make the Realm more progressive. Middle Eastern motifs of any kind work well for them aesthetically whether they’re Old Testament prophets or Babylonian kings. Or in summation Zeniths should be this guy. >No the fact he’s mastered ultra kung fu doesn’t make him a Dawn.
>>94366206They primary rule, they are worshipped as holy figures and as such they receive prayers (represented by the Cult merit) and dictate laws as if they were divine mandates.
>>94366613>divine mandatesHow respectable are divine mandates in Creation anyway, given how transactional religion is?
>>94362158>>94362297You know what, fair enough. I took mountain RANGE in 3e to imply a substantially more ridiculous distance than a mere 20 miles depending on how the ST arbitrates geography in Creation ("You're at the top of Mount Meru, and you suddenly become aware your village is under siege from Octavian" "Fuck it. I'll jump" "You can't-" "Ah, ah, ah! There's a MOUNTAIN RANGE in the way, and I have Mountain-Crossing Leap!") but like >>94364402 said everything positive I have to say in favour of 3e Charms comes down to the developers and the game being extremely fucking vague about how far rangebands actually are.>Ordinary rangeband rules don't let you travel further than your unobstructed line of sight whether you move five rangebands or twenty (as there is no range beyond 'extreme' which is anything longer than long but closer than the horizon), which means you could cross mountain ranges (especially if you started on top of a mountain) but aren't going at the extremely ridiculous speed a high interpretation would indicate.Which just calls into question how Awareness Charms affect rangebands in 3e.
>>94371049>Which just calls into question how Awareness Charms affect rangebands in 3e.They don't, really. Rangebands have magic written in and accounted for. The weird part of the extreme rangeband is this bit:>A final range, extreme range, also exists. At this range, opponents are distant specks; communication is generally impossible, as is combat. All range bands beyond long range are considered extreme rangeIn the extreme range bands opponents are distant specks, and all range bands beyond long range are extreme range. This means that no combat encounter or ability which invokes rangebands can go beyond extreme range, 'distant speck', without recentering itself somehow (different scene, new stuff happening at a different place, etc). Fifty rangebands is still in the extreme rangeband, so the encounter is still capped by line of sight.The other place I've spotted rangebands getting fucky in 1v1s is when it comes to mismatched sizes and long weapons. Somebody in a warstrider or fighting with a very long pokey stick can probably consider someone 'close enough to easily attack with a hand-to-hand weapon' while also being outside the immediate reach of that person. Spears and whips are accounted for by the reaching tag but warstriders (which are the same idea but bigger) don't really have anything to show what they do there.
>>94371415If 3e was more fun about how silly it can be at times, I'd like to imagine a First Age Solar responding to the Warstrider problem by building a comically long direlance that very specifically has the Evocations to poke things at Extreme range. Like the Ruyi Jingu Bang, but actually designed as a weapon.
Alchemicals on the 14th
Thoughts on Essence? I think I like it more both as a system and to a lesser extent the way it integrates narrative player driven storytelling. It’s not a lightweight system at all either, even if it’s 3rd edition lite.
>>94373482i posted in this thread before about my opinions but the tl;dr>way more playable than any edition of exalted but has the breadth intact with things like ventures>virtues are weird>personal modes are great and the perspective that charms are actual techniques in the universe rather than whatever the FUCK bullet 3e bit back in core is great>great curse can be enjoyed and participated in by anyone, regardless of their thoughts of it as an in universe setting elements.
>>94370582not everyone in creation's the sort of cynical modern type, that's mostly an immaculate and sidereal/ yozi and neverborn cult view of creations gods. They have the moralities of the ancient world and animistic beliefs, putting comfy socks on the god and giving them a cheesecake and wine like the romans did still holds great significance to the average non immaculate. Plenty of gods have instilled themselves as moral exemplars according to the morality of their worshippers civilisation, doesn't mean they are, but they had time to shape the society and persona.
what do people think of how infernals are shaping up in 3e? Do we know if the full splat will have a charm structure like their Essence counterparts? Enjoying playing them in Essence but I miss the Yozi charm tree thing.
>>94374996We know for a fact that they'll have ability based charmsets that dreaw themes from all of the Yozi. In that respect, they're going to be similar to Abyssals. Instead of Supernal abilities their primary thing is going to be Devil Bodies, which are replacing Shintai. Honestly, I've not heard anything to get my hyped about them. If they're good, great. If not, nevermind.
>>94374996The fact they chose Alchemicals over Infernals because "we wanted to let Infernals cook a little more" is really worrying, because what the fuck is going on behind the scenes...?
>>94375240Finances vs artistic vision.They really want to bury 2e Infernals, but at the same time Infernals are the most likely to draw dimes.
>>94374996Everything I've heard about them makes me think they're not going to clear the bar 2E's Infernals set and that is very disappointing. From what I understand we're just going to get green Abyssals rather than something cool
>>94376449Why not just port 2E charms into 3rd/Essence then?
>>94376537There's already a fan port or 2
>>94376537As >>94376566, said, there's already one, it's pretty much a straight 1:1 port and makes Infernals hilariously powerful compared to Solars IIRC
>>94374987>They have the moralities of the ancient world and animistic beliefs, putting comfy socks on the god and giving them a cheesecake and wine like the romans did still holds great significance to the average non immaculate.This specific part is true, but it's a matter of superstition and inaccurate knowledge combined with traditional best practices on how to go about partaking in the transactional relationship, rather than because the gods they're praying to is a moral exemplar. You don't pray to the Unconquered Sun because you think he's an incredible guy, you pray to him because all else has failed and you need a hail mary. You don't pray to the city-smiter because you think he's a cool guy with an interest in ruins and collecting old knowledge, you pray to him because you're in the business of warfare and need to smite a city, so you want his blessing - not a metaphorical blessing, the kind that is more like permission, the real kind that will have a marked effect on the battle.It isn't just Immaculates. In fact, it's explicitly not Immaculates. The Immaculate Faithful are the ones who are trying to have people pray according to calendar and the needs of the gods, instead of bartering worship and sacrifice with them in return for their miracles, blessings, and interventions.
>>94376537>>94376566>>94377243Are there any of Essence?
>>94374996I started out being genuinely interested in the first version of the 3e Infernals preview, the one made before Holdenmorke were kicked. Apart from one or two concerning additions, it sounded good. The more I learned about the writers' stated intent for Infernals, the more concerned I grew about them trying to depict the "humanism" of Infernals and what they thought it should look like. Then I got very concerned by the Essence preview of Infernals, and by the fact they just handwrung about muh wordcount when nothing fucking changed for the final release. Then Crucible of Legend dropped. That tanked any further hopes I ever had about the line.The only, ONLY things I have faith in for Infernals are the mechanics being more on-point than either Infernals and Solars, and Shintais being, based on 3e Lunars. Even then I don't think I should for the latter, given Exigents shows the devs would rather just write a blank check and pretend it promotes diversity of choice than actually create a set of interesting and consistently themed, mechanically distinct effects you can infer new sorts of Charms from. The former is as much a condemnation of how long it's taken to implement 3e and how in hindsight, I would frankly rather have 6 flawed books out every year than 1 mediocre book every year that STILL has significant flaws.In short, fuck 3e.
>>94377243To be fair, it's not hard to be hilariously powerful compared to Solars when making a Solar-level anything in 3e. You just have to resist Holdenmorke's urge to pad everything out with 4-6 useless filler Charms that do impossibly pointless shit like +2 parry against Creatures of Darkness or only proc against trivial opponents. Or write Charms like Cup Boils Over that exist to win internet arguments rather than actually improve the game.
>>94379732According to Exigents guidelines, it is how 3e balance strong charms, by giving them filler prerequisites
>>94379988That’s the most utterly bizarre detail I’ve heard so far, because Sidereals and Abyssals COMPLETELY ignores that advice and that’s the main reason why Abyssals are more powerful than Solars in 3e. It’s not the easier access to Agg. Creatures of Darkness debuff counts for a lot. It’s not the killiness of their Charm design. Being dependent on Crippling or other negative effects hitting and trading mobility for endurance is kind of a bad trade in the Initiative economy. No, it’s the simple fact that you’re getting a fucking lot more bang for your buck with Apocalyptic than Supernal in terms of getting to the Charms you actually want.
Man, reading the To Rule In Hell homebrew for 3e Infernals is oddly cathartic. When I first read it I was concerned it was a little bereft of scope. Now, in light of what Abyssals indicate for the future of the game's design and ESPECIALLY with Essencefernals as a comparison it feels fucking good to see how cheesy the Charms are.Even if all Charms that do nothing except offer a free excellency use should die in a fire, be replaced by something more original, and then all Excellency Charms should just get a free upgrade at E3 to let you use them freely by paying extra motes or WP or whatever.
>>94377243Which port? To rule hell? Or the Devils are here?
>>94380324Probably To Rule In Hell, since to my knowledge The Devils Are Here isn't finished. I swear there was a third one too with OC shintais but for the life of me I can't find it, or remember it's name.3e really gutted the mood for homebrew.
>>94380349It is because the system was deliberately made more obtuse than 2e's.As in, the devs did everything in their power for it to not be "solved".And a lot of the prolific homebrewers, moved on, were banned or simply became devs themselves.
>>94380427The last step of mastering Exalted's system is knowing when to step away from it, because getting too attached to the damn thing will end up making you part of the problem.
>>94318537Ok gays.Here is an experimental update for the demake.
>>94380745
>>94380757And that's it.Here is a TLDR for the changes from Holden:big changes in those files to look for, off the top of my head:• Botches no longer exist• Aggravated damage has been split into two rules, Brutal and Aggravated damage• Defense is calculated differently• Soak is calculated differently• Dual Wield and Unarmed fighting styles changed• Mote regain changed significantly• Cult rewritten• Manse rewritten• Essence Exhaustion added• Essence Respiration for Solars added
>>94380776>Manse rewrittenQTD on this?
>>94380070Abyssals had a lot of filler shit charms. Sidereals and funnily enough most Exigents are where the design is best.
>>94380776does it have shifting target numbers for non sidereals still?>yes-not interested.
>>94380776>• Aggravated damage has been split into two rules, Brutal and Aggravated damageHolden should look at nwod armory book, it had grievous damage, I think it was in werewolf section.
>>94380776>1s subtract Pass
>spend years trying to make 20th Anniversary somehow work for Exalted>time that could have been spent developing 1e's system and backporting modern conveniencesOh Holden...
>>94381348Exalted vs World of darkness 8s pretty functional, personal issues are easy to fix.Demake is a different system by now.
>>94381435>>94381348ExWoD remains the best chassis Exalted has ever had. Port in a better social system, fix WoD’s awful combat, add in sorcery, crafting, Battlegroups, social projects and workings, retool Elder Essence so it’s more breadth less ‘impossibly hard to fight stats’ and it’s pretty much the perfect Exalted. I did most of this for my game.
>>94380776>• Mote regain changed significantly>• Essence Respiration for Solars addedWeren't these already in ExVsWoD?>• Essence Exhaustion addedHolden doesn't want people spamming Excellencies.
>>94382215Holden doesn't seem to want people using their charms given how much he keeps nerfing essence regen.
>>94382446The more and more Holden writes, the more and more I'm convinced he just wants a slightly more powerful version of heroic mortals but doesn't want to admit that
>>94382908This is an ancient exalted conundrum, how powerful the Exalted host was supposed to be? Reading 1e gives the impression of relatively powerful adventurers, not much different from WoD characters.
>>94351456Speaking of which, I've always been interested in non-combat charm trees that enlightened mortals can use. I'm trying to homebrew a performance charm tree, back story is that a thaumaturge invented it so he could get +3 when worshipping deities and developed it from there.
>Third Circle Demons know Adamant Circle Spells>Meanwhile, even the UCS doesn't know and Luna only knows a couple borrowed by GaiaThat seems a weird unbalance.
>>94380745>Wasting all that page count on approved material/trigger warning bullshit >Those pathetic faux realism naval rules>>94382992Reading the writer quotes and commentary it’s clear there’s supposed to be a continuum ranging from cool kung fu movie dude to epic action anime star to cosmic entity but it’s not really clear on the exact divisions of that and the higher end of the scale was neglected entirely in First, poorly done in Second and consciously abandoned in Third. It becomes pretty clear after running awhile how strong most Exalts are but it’s pretty hard to parse from fluff alone since some Exalts are the guys from Crouching Tiger, some are the guys from Bleach, and were assured some are the guys from Dragonball or Saint Seiya but we never really see it developed.
>>94382992The way the Primordial War is written in all editions makes every Exalt (that existed back then) sound literally like ten times more powerful than they actually are mechanically and I do not understand why. Solars in the actual game are super powerful but on the level of "very powerful superhuman" but the fucking lore implies they were single-handedly bodying Primordials left and right and doing shit that would be difficulty 15+ with ease.
How much MORE powerful would an Essence 5 Exalt be compared to an Essence 1? Leaving the raw mechanics aside, what should be the intended power level?
>>94383219The Primordial War was 100 years, it involved magitech empires supporting the Exalted, and there were a few outliers that managed to do the impossible and duel a Primordial and win. But those were maybe a handful of them. Malfeas-That-Was is said to have devoured Exalts and the gods that spawned them left and right, Isidoros drowned the Exalted armies that ended up besting him and so on. That you had Merela and a couple other of those that managed to reach E10 do it doesn't mean that every Exalt was doing it. They were basically player characters who survived a war against entire universes.
>>94383219>I do not understand why. Solars in the actual game are super powerful but on the level of "very powerful superhuman" but the fucking lore implies they were single-handedly bodying Primordials left and right and doing shit that would be difficulty 15+ with ease.Gameplay and story segregation, the 1e devs didn't really want to see the players beating the patrons, see the Deathlords.And the Celestial Exalted are more like wod semi-elders.
>>94383237Essence 1: Brock Samson. The characters from Kill Bill. Essence 2: Executioners of Shaolin and similar Hong Kong kung fu films. Essence 3-4: The characters from the Matrix Films. The cast of Baki the Grappler. Inuyasha. Kung Fu Hustle. Jubei Chan the Ninja Girl. Essence 5-7: The characters of Bleach. Fate Servants. All Might.Essence 8-10: Dragonball, Sailor Moon, Saint Seiya and similar cosmic anime. The exact power level wouldn’t map cleanly to any of these but vaguely similar in aesthetic scope.
>>943833111e devs build the setting with a WOD perspective.They wanted you to be a superhero but not to be so powerful as to completely destroy the status quo/metaplot.So Solars are at the same time supposed to be world changing heroes that killed world shaping monsters yet can't beat really old ghosts empowered by the ghosts of the monsters they already killed or even a minor elemental dragon that can somehow kill an army of Solars alone.They wanted their pay and to eat it too.I honestly would lean more on the world changing heroes side so I don't like 3e.
>>94383446The conceit was you started as young Exalts who were more region-shaping heroes. The world-changing heroes were older and stronger. The error was not writing and fully integrating the high level play in from the start, with Grabowski even calling it not a priority, but advertising high level play as a merit of the setting. The insanity was not detailing the high level play till the end of the second edition of the game and then for some fucking reason populating the setting with non-rules supported elders who do exist at that level. Or as you put it, repeating the sins of WoD. Grabowski had a pretty good outline of the game he wanted, he just make a number of very critical errors in doing it. Though desu even the design of the setting on a conceptual level has some very very major flaws.
>>94383446You can notice the perspective by the existence of "see spirits" charms.
>>94383826How do you mean?
>>94384007It is hard to explain.But it defines the Exalted host as not being inherently part of the cosmology, you are a mortal gaining supernatural sight.
So, before Alchemicals drops tomorrow and we all go scifi for a month, does anyone have any pics that could be used for the Eye and Seven Despairs?
>>94380745I have literally never seen a naval warfare system worth the paper it's printed on.
>>94381589Someone needs to nail a board with the words LESS IS MORE over Holden's computer.
>>94383315>Fate ServantsOh god, you have no idea do you.
>>94384144Wait, it's dropping tomorrow? Good for Alchemical fans I guess. Or bad? I just want Infernals to be indefinitely delayed at this point. To Rule In Hell is sufficient and I'm glad someone else's lore is getting assfucked first.
>>94384181Yes, I don't remember if they posted some art.
>>94384181KS is starting tomorrow so we'll get the lore chapters. I kind of feel you on Infernals, I've not heard anything about them that I liked.
>>94384122I disagree.>>94384167This. Just provide the Exalted experience without jank. Why do so many authors insist on adding jank?
>>94380776>Scarred by the VoidKek, Holden really can't let go of the idea Solars should be able to knick other Charms even outside the Eclipse anima ability
>>94384347I think it is funny how one of the Solar legacies is named after sun wukong, further discussion is a can of worms.
I really really like Exalted Essence as a system. And I really really hate Exalted as a setting. The fact Infernals are just "wronged" and not corrupted Solars infused with the spite and malignment of Yozis is such a what the fuck? Especially considering their unique Charms still make them very monstrous, but I guess Essence wanted the Marvel audience so everyone can be a hero fighting slavery? I mean I think 1e had the best lore overall, 2e has some pretty serious issues narratively with how it basically holds up Solars as "no yeah they were the best even when they went fucking insane and basically if you don't suck their cocks you're retarded" but the rebranding going on with the corrupted Exalts to allow them to be good boys is something else.
>>94384614>And I really really hate Exalted Essence as a setting* Whoops. And I guess Essence is just 3rd edition with even less things explained, but that's not to its benefit because 3rd Edition completely retcons everything from 2nd. Even the cool stuff. I get they're trying to just build off what 1 started without considering 2nd's deviations, but they should have kept a lot more of 2nd edition. Why do they hate it so much? You'd think it actually raped someone with how much they bitch about some of the darker parts of 2nd edition's stuff.
>>94384614Considering it is "feels oppressed" you can do a really wide range of malignancy and spite.See how Elliott Roger felt oppressed/dumped by fate.
>>94384647I did not pick up a setting about kung fu bullshit to larp as only half asian
>>94384655Kung Fu is just a set dressing, you never see a arrogant young master running around, or Dragon-Blooded committing genocides against those who disrespect the DB's grandparents.
>>94382446Essence recovery was just buffed, if you ignore Essence Exhaustion and the manse nerf. You're kind of right though, because nobody's really going to stop using Excellencies.That manse nerf was pretty huge though. Fair, since mote recovery from manses was really really fast, but still.>>94382215>Weren't these already in ExVsWoD?Yes, but they weren't in Demake yet.
>>94384683When I read about Essence exhaustion, I thought it would happen if you reached 0 motes.Weird that Holden did this form of white wolfism.>Yes, but they weren't in Demake yet.Strange how they came just now.
>>94384614>I really really like Exalted Essence as a system.Me too. It falls off really hard after Essence 3 because of how the dicecap interacts with it's attachment to dice-adding and similar purely mechanical effects, but when it's good it's the best. If they added a bunch of higher Essence charms which had mostly fiat effects so that you had some progression options that could take you into something that felt like a real, proper lategame, I think it'd be the best.>And I really really hate Exalted Essence as a setting*It's not great, no. Well, the world is alright, it's just that 3e's way of making the Exalted seem like they have no setting impact got brought in, and also it's been used to prototype 3e's bad decisions.
>>94384723I'm pretty sure if you just remove the dice cap and ask players to be reasonable nothing bad happens. The lack of high Essence charms IS a pretty big problem, but imo there's an entire deluge of 2nd Edition charms you can port to fix that, and Essence is such a relatively lightweight system it's really no issue. I get the intent of the dice cap, but practically speaking I think that's only there for the devs to feel like they caught themselves from breaking things. And imo it only really becomes a problem with soak, which is still not that much of a problem because Reveal Weakness just halves soak. Even if you break up to 12 or 13 soak you can still drop that to 6, and outside of bullshit homebrew charms you can't even get there anyways.
>>94384741>I'm pretty sure if you just remove the dice cap and ask players to be reasonable nothing bad happensI had a whole thing ready to go about how it was easy enough to stack up Soak to ~20 without really trying that unfamiliar players wouldn't stumble into the broken builds, but thinking on it some more I actually agree with you. Soak stacking isn't really a problem anymore because of Reveal Weakness offering a way to deal with it via teamplay even if you stack Soak up to something ridiculous like 30+ (since you can stack the 'halve Soak' effect). Stacking Defense has never really been an issue because the persistent buffs are all pretty mild and Portentious Warding Defense / Seven Shadows Evasion don't break the game even if they're adding so much Defense they feel like psuedo-perfects. The only problem I foresee is damage scaling going up to oneshot levels. That's... more likely than I'd like, but scaling damage is hard enough that it's probably not a huge issue. There might be some charm that does it which I'm not remembering since it'd be basically useless with the dicecaps, but I think it'd be fine.You're actually entirely right. The dicecap is just a set of training wheels. You can get away with removing it.>Even if you break up to 12 or 13 soak you can still drop that to 6, and outside of bullshit homebrew charms you can't even get there anywaysYou can absolutely go higher than 12 or 13 with martial arts. Some of them were changed to set instead of increase in the proper book, but the Form charms for Tiger, Earth Dragon, and White Reaper all still give +3 Soak.
>>94384880You can get 3 base soak. 1 starting, +1 from physique, and 1 from ox body. Then you can get up to 3 with artifact heavy armor unless GM fiat makes it go higher. So 6 without active charms. Typically stuff that boosts soak is temporary too, unless you’re a lunar or using committer motes, so it’s not particularly easy to get more than 10 soak even without the dice limit in play just from an action economy perspective. For instance. Infernals can only get 2 soak from Viridian Rust Defense and 1 to 2 Soak from Scars Become Armor. So even if we assume they’re doing all of the above and have two motes committed (and we’re ignoring the fact that technically the 3 soak from armor and 2 soak from the first charm already hits the 10 soak cap) where can they realistically go from here to get any more soak? Martial arts? So 3 more soak at best, more commonly 1 or 2. You could combo it with the orichalcum body spell for 3 more soak from there too let’s say your sorcerer throws that on you. Then your impressive 16 soak that required four actions of setup between the two of you and two committed motes is reduced by 8 from getting hit by guard breaking technique or just the reveal weakness gambit by the opponents who spent their turns using offensive charms and building power. I fully understand why they slapped the dice limit on to cut down on cheese, and I think it should remain in place perhaps until you hit essence 5 even, where you completely leave mortal boundaries behind. But the system works well enough imo that you don’t even need to wait that long, frankly. Gambits are well designed as are offensive charms generally. Defense stacking in Essence is also just better than Soak stacking. Since defense not only reduces the chance enemies gain power, even if they do hit, base damage for weapons is dramatically lower so that a few points of defense can dramatically lower damage taken. Unless I missed something.
>>94385158>or using committer motesYes, you use committed motes to set up powerful effects like +3 Soak with upside. I refuse to believe that you think committing motes to persistent effects is an it'll-never-work revolutionary tactic. That said, you're not wrong that Soak is currently at manageable levels. You seem to have missed that you can flurry to activate two Forms in one turn, though.>Defense stacking in Essence is also just better than Soak stacking. Since defense not only reduces the chance enemies gain power, even if they do hit, base damage for weapons is dramatically lower so that a few points of defense can dramatically lower damage taken. Unless I missed something.I disagree for a few reasons. The only thing I think you missed outright is that withering attacks are bad; they're a joke, and I have seen nobody make use of them. Build Power is so much better, even if you have to do it yourself, because it's not opposed by any of your opponent's values. It's also hard to make withering attacks do bad stuff that's worth noting to your enemy, so there's not much incentive. Outside that though, defense stacking is way less efficient; you find that, instead of picking up +3 or +2s, you're almost always picking up +1s for your scenelongs, and Portentious Warding Defense / Flickering Shadow Evasion cost 2m per use compared to e.g. Tiger Style trading Power, which you're usually glutted on, for Soak 1:1. It's also a matter of their effect when they don't full-block - unless Excellent Strike is in play, Soak does twice as much to protect you by blocking one damage success per Soak on the damage roll than Defense does by blocking one damage die from arriving to the damage roll.I'll admit that I missed something, though - Excellent Strike roughly evens that last part, where it normally wouldn't do as much with dicecaps. Your attack rolls being capped at 5 bonus successes normally hurts it's threshold success doubling effect.
How we all doing, everyone hyped for Alchemicals to launch?
>>94386524Honestly kinda yeah. I had severe 3e burnout around Sidereals/Abyssals, but I'm actually interested enough again to look forward to Alchemicals.
>>94386524Not really
>>94386524....why the fuck are we getting the unrelated realm before we're getting infernals?
>>94387001Infernals come out last so they can be the Solar errata
>>94387001It's tradition. Note that this is also about the point in the cycle they usually start introducing metaplot.
>>94387085People said the same thing about Abyssals.
>>94387001The Devs need more time to actually work out what they're doing with Infernals.
>>94387205They had a good part of a decade to figure Infernals out
>>94387001People didn't like their take on infernals from essence.So they are likely going to rework them.And if they don't then they are retards.Turning them into le cool brujah revels is so fucking cringe.
>>94387381It killed the first Essence thread over rpgnet
>>94387555Really?Even they didn't like it?lol
>>94387652>thread 2, Reborn in Resplendent Emerald FlamesYes, they had to lock the 1st thread
>>94387671Damn, have the devs made any comments regarding the backlach?
>>94387689They promised they would be fixed in the final version
>>94387695But they haven't said what kind of changes they plan to make?
>>94387748No idea, the final version of Essence was an attempt
The kickstarter is out
Is that woman an alchemical?
Why do retards love this stupid looking haircut so much?
>>94388376And already fulfilled, never let it be said that retards aren't loyal
>>94388448No idea, she looks too human.
>>94388487Some do it for the sake of backing.
Is Autochthon the first Primordial to be named in 3e besides Luna?
>>94388502>>94388487Sunk cost fallacy.They already invested too much on other 3e books.At least retards are going into the crystals soon.
>>94388545I meant that they back for the sake of backing, one even stopped reading Geist previews because it was making them don't want to back.
Exalted 4e when?
>>94388687Essence is basically it already
>>94388542Luna isn't a Primordial.
Anyone have the Alchemicals PDF yet?
>>94388841....wut
>>94388847Yes, just the intro chapters so far, lexicon, scene setting etc. No crunch yet
>>94388770Nah Essence is an alternate playstyle like Shards
>>94388917NTA but Luna is an incarna like the unconquered sun and the maidens.The only not crippled primordials left are Gaia and Autocthon.
>>94388941Gaia, that's who I fucking meant
>>94388841My bad, I'm a fucking retard
Wasn't TeD mentioned in the write up of that one third circle?
>>94388990To be fair, Lunars really want to be Gaia's children.More than Gaia's own grandchildren.
>>94388919I meant, where can they be found?
>>94390252It really is kind of funny how little the Dragonblooded think about Gaia compared to the Five Elemental Dragons, like you'd think some theologian would start wondering at the implications of their progenitor's progenitor but no.
>>94387085>>94387144Tbqh Abyssals basically IS the Solar errata, being a tacit admission that charm bloat was a mistake.
>>94391116Yes, specially with the Garou larp Lunars have going or the Caul.>Lunars defend nature against civilization, in the name of Gaia!!!>Gaia's descendants run the biggest civilization, and Gaia herself fucked off.
>>94391194Shit man given what they hinted at Gaia being like in 2e, I'm not even sure if Gaia WANTS nature to be defended. Probably thinks people hunting giant badass animals to make them stronger in the long ter is great, actually.
>>94388448>>94388492wait, those are alchemicals?!they just look like solars with tatoos and some biomagitech!
>>94391116Do they even know that Gaia is the mother of the elemental dragons?Besides it would be like Solars thinking about the Ebon Dragon and thanking him for creating the Unconquered Sun.
>>94388941cytherea got got?i thought she fucked off long enough to not be crippled into prison daddy?
>>94391347Nope, Cytherea is trapped in Malfeas too. Compass: Malfeas has a bit detailing how she has her own plan to escape that may or may not run contrary to the Ebon Dragon's, and apparently involves manipulating geomancy in Creation and Malfeas. Weirdly, despite being captured the First Age Solars couldn't find out SHIT about her before being usurped. They imprisoned something they either could not comprehend on a level beyond even the other Primordials, or got memory wiped about later on.
>>94388941There is one other Primordial left running around, not including Gaia and Autochthon, according to 2e. There were two others after the Primordial War (Lands of Creation pg 11), and one of them came back over a thousand years later for the Aftershock War and was defeated (Lands of Creation pg14). The other remains at large.
>>94388920Shards were just the Exalted system in a different setting with one exception for Burn Legend, which was a completely different system that had Exalted overtones in a modern setting. Gunstar Autochthon, Modern, and Heaven's Reach are fundamentally the taking system and playstyle of Exalted and putting it in new settings, like the difference between Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms.Exalted Essence is a different system built to play Exalted in the Exalted setting. It is near-indistinguishable from a new edition in any way other than in that it's developers are forbidden from calling it a new edition. It's less of a departure from 3e than 3e is from 2e or 1e, that's for sure.
>>94391347>>94391424Now that it's been brought up, I wouldn't be against changing it so Cytheria left rather than get imprisoned if people wanted to keep her a mystery box rather than have the incredibly stupid status quo where the Exalts don't know jack shit against someone they fought and imprisoned.
>>94392547Primordials were weird and some didn't even have proper physical joutens. They were imprisoned via their common charms and soul surgery.
>the Incarnae are the ones who discovered Exaltation>Autochthon was the one who showed them how to use itbut why
>>94392547It's based off of nothing but a half remembered dev comment I'm probably misremembering about how Oramus surrendered early on in the war and was the one to design his own prison, but I've always liked the idea that the reason why the Exalts managed it imprison Cytheria despite knowing jack shit about her is because they didn't. She was just in there when they closed the doors.It was just as much a surprise to the exalts as anyone else, with the worrying implication that like Oramus, she's in there because it's exactly where she wants to be, doing something known only to herself
>>94392573If there is a comment about that, that's running pretty much against everything in the actual 2E text and other dev comments. His fetich is questing to undo his prison, the Exalted needed to work extra hard to make his prison, his shifting in his prison trying to escape fucks things around and he has spawned a Third Circle forest around his body/prison that is always moving symbolizing his desire for freedom. Plus his themes include not being bound by anything but himself as he is the one that defines boundaries.
>>94392581Possibly, as I said I barely remember it
>>94392573>>94392581I've seen the same thing in a book somewhere, because I remember reading a separate wiki and thinking that was a weird bit of headcanon. But it isn't in Ink Monkey, Infernals or Malfeas' Compass. Where the fuck is it?
>>94392639Might be a 1e thing that didn't get transferred over to 2e?
>>94392681I think Oramus was only mentioned once in GoD. I would write this off as some wiki shit, but I swear to Sol that I saw it later in a book and had a eureka moment.
Can anyone post the alchemicals manuscripts once they are released?
>>94392639Nobilis.me maybe ( http://nobilis.me/quotes-exalted )? That has author comments. Holden and Jenna's are cool, others are pretty bad.Oh, and the expanded Magnus AMA. That one is good.There was another blog that had some cool stuff like fetich ideas for most Yozis, but I don't remember which one. Like Qaf's one being in a quest to collect 10 Yozi treasures for each of his arms.
>>94392878>fetich ideas for most YoziI got you. I think.https://ericminton.wordpress.com/2014/11/12/ink-monkey-bones-27-fragments-of-the-sebridian-incunabulum/
>>94392571Giving the Incarna more agency, and justifying nu-exalts
>>94393059Forgot to mention, some people really dislike how Autochthon was the creator of a lot of things.Blaming it on 2e.
>>94393100Wutwhyhe's literally the Great fucking Maker
>>94393108They think it removes agency of the Incarna or something, they see it as a extension of 2e primordial show.Believing it was only added to wank Authocton in the 1e Alchemicals book, despite it being teased beforehand
>>94393124I will never understand 3e fans, they seem to have entirely arbitrary ideas about how much agency every character to have sometimes.
>>94393139Yes, they also have a weird idea of what agency and empoweredment is.
>>94393100I do think he was attributed to enough things that it got overbearing at some points, but taking away Exaltation is just... what? Cutting back on excesses would be the right play, not gutting core parts of his legend. Exaltation, Pattern Spiders, and Jadeborn. His role and relation to them should not have been touched.What definitely did need to be cut back on was his role in things he was touching on purely because he was used as a cudgel of excellence by the developers. We do not need random gods made by Autochthon when we have a whole apparatus for them that custom-made gods don't fit into, we don't need him involved with Luranume and we definitely don't need the sidebar declaring that "Autochthon was chosen because no one knew the Loom of Fate better", adding 'knows the Loom better than the Maidens of Fate' to his roster of random bullshit. Etcetera.
>>94393219Luranume was commissioned by Luna.
>>94393219I mean, wasn't there a bit in Dreams of the First Age that flat out said a LOT of the stuff that was attributed to Autokun wasn't actually done by him? Solars just attributed a whole bunch of things to him because it was politically expedient and less embarrassing to claim their [whatever] they really like or that made Creation better was made by the King of all Craftsman than admitting it was made by Yozi, Neverborn, gods who sided with them, fae, ghosts, other enemies of Creation, etc?
>>94393239...Is that supposed to make it better? She could have commissioned it from Gaia, solely. The Maidens of Fate could have collaborated to make her emissary, as fate demanded they have a check on their power. He could have been a god, promoted to a position under Luna and Luna alone and unique in that way. Luna could have birthed or built Lunanume herself, given that half the point was to have someone she could trust to check the maidens.This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say that developers used Autochthon as a cudgel of excellence. They resorted to him first and to the exclusion of many other beings as their way of indicating excellence.>>94393267I'm talking out-of-character attribution from developers speaking very clearly on the subject, not things being attributed to him in-character.
>>94393287It is like hephaestus, he did a lot of commissions, but the narrative weight is on the one who commissioned
>>94393295Autochthon has more words and weight attributed to him than Luna in the Luranume writeup. There's an entire sidebar almost as big as Luranume's entry dedicated to justifying his involvement and wanking his superlative skills. 'Someone asked so it's okay' does not justify it when, fundamentally, the developers are the ones writing it, not the in-universe characters. Luna didn't put Autochthon there, SLS did.
New thread (I accidentally put the general's title in the name instead of subject when I posted though) >>94393391
