>>94372499
>Tell us the most stupid thing your players did recently.

Already commented on it, but, walking into Gangrel territory unannounced during wartime. Earned the offenders a lot of aggravated damage and three major boons owed to the Primogen

I posted the question in the last one before it does, so I'll roll it over.

> Sorta tangential and I never found a thread dedicated to the system, but since has heavily influenced both old and new Mage I'll ask here: has anyone here DMed or played Ars Magica?
> How does it play, how hard is it to run, and which editions are considered good?

>>94364245
Sorry, didn't make myself clear (problem of only posting when dead tired): the purpose is to make compulsions happen /more often/.
Having given it some thought, I'm warming up to the idea of allowing once per session a player to willfuly act out on a compulsion to erase a stain.
It mirrors the "Ride the Wave" option a player has to intentionally go into the frenzy, so as to keep character control while it happens.
It ties into the Riddle's old "A beast I am lest a beast I become".
Main issue is going to see just how it impacts the humanity economy, so to speak, but I have a feeling giving players a bit more more control as a buffer against randomization is going to end a positive - though it opens some minmaxing.
>I believe V5 companionbupdatrd the rule so that both Bestial Failures and Messy Criticals cannout you into Clan Compulsion
I don't remember that... would make little sense, when would those happen then?

>>94360749
>>94364296
Very nice by the way. Thanks for sharing.

>TQ
The PCs managed to kill the Scourge... who, while very rude, was their only political support in a chain of command that was already threatening them with a blood hunt. Brilliant execution of a completely out of the blue idea, total mess for me and the game.
I certainly did not expect that one.

>>94373045
Can only answer for the way I've ran it, but to me it's always been a rather slow, ponderous game that shines in the contrast between the mundanes and the (often deus-x-machina-y) mage in troupe play.
I haven't ran it in a few years - and then I'm lagging behind with my old second ed books, but system-wise I remember it being relatively heavy - the character sheet alone can be intimidating to new players (I had one game falter before it even started because of it) - with the freeform aspect being a make-or-break element.
I mean, it's not old Shadowrun with its three different rule systems depending on which aspect of the world you're focusing on, but it does thrive on details.

>>94372499
My players have committed to the "bit" of making a shovelhead into a respectable member of Kindred society. Said shovelhead was pulled into this unlife through being involved with a pigment cult run by a Sabbat necromancer so they've had to do a lot of work on him just to break the obvious cult programming. Guy didn't even know he was a vampire until they forced him to look at it properly because to the cult he was simply "blessed" by their patron.
He also has pre-embrace branding wounds on his face so it's not exactly a subtle thing to hide.
Oh and my Brujah keeps trying to pick fights with every authority member in the city including aggravating an Anarch baron, getting the Prince slightly peeved, entering a feud with a Primogen, and lightly needling the Sheriff.

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>>94372499
>Tell us the most stupid thing your players did recently.

Ruined my narrative about vampire soles seeking Golconda by making it about the feets of mages

I'd usually be down for that kind of thing but man, time and place

>Tell us the most stupid thing your players did recently

>whole group spends 6 sessions trying to catch an Anarch mole
>finally they track him down
>big fight, they're winning
>Toreador forgets that everyone wanted to take the mole alive (unalive, whatever, no bully)
>goes for killing blow
>a-are you sure
>nobody else says everything, just sit in silence waiting for him to remember
>yes I'm fucking sure
>rolls perfectly
>kills the mole
the other players are currently mad af at him

how come some of the most powerful clans worldwide (giovanni and lasombra) are italian? shouldn't italy be like the very last place vampires should go, with the vatican being there and all?

>>94374863

I mean neither of them are from Rome are they? Lasombra hangs out in Sicily, where the Vatican can't reach through the Mafia, and the Giovanni in Venice which wants the rest of Italy to fuck off anyways.

>>94374863
Lasombra are Españolx

Does the following campaign idea sound workable or completely retarded?

>oWoD
>players are all playing bloodlines
>all rescued moments from final death by mysterious benefactor
>sent to infiltrate (to be determined) significant vampire city, posing as members of the 'main' clans
>mysterious benefactor could just be an elder with a pet project, or something more sinister

Obviously that's a very barebones idea, but I'd appreciate any initial feedback before I put any time into it

>>94374863
>Giovanni and Lasombra
>Most powerful worldwide

??? I swear half the time the books forget the Giovanni exist and the Lasombra have to share the Sabbat with the Tzimisce.

>>94374970
the benefactors motives will dictate whether its really intriguing or mad cheesey

>>94374970
That could work, but why this city, and why the infiltration? Once you have that you can give them subtly different objectives to complete so that they have to both work together and try to complete their own assignment. That's some good inter-coterie drama to fuel plot threads there.

>>94374970
My personal philosophy is that there are few ideas that are completely irredeemable, a lot of what makes a story good lies in execution. So I'm not going to dismiss the idea just because it is very extra, but if you want to make sure you aren't falling into any of the very common pitfalls that games like this often fall into, ask yourself these questions.

>What does the game gain from playing all bloodlines? Why can't they work as infiltrators if the players even just had the option to play a more normal clan?
>How can the Elder in question find these presumably fledgling or young neonate vampires of very rare lineages, and put them all under his or her thumb?
>How is the Elder going to disguise the bloodlines, which often have very noticeable quirks as well as make 3-4 vampires showing up out of nowhere seem organic?
>Why is the Elder doing this, and would the players be disappointed/upset when their motives are eventually revealed at the climax?

Again, the idea isn't inherently bad, but you should ask yourself some questions to decide if it's worth it or not.

>>94374832
Personal take, as a DM, that's kinda mean.
We all have our game set up preferences, and I understand the desire to have players live up to/with their mistakes, but players aren't their PCs - if only players aren't as smart, as focused, or are punctually more tired than the character they're supposed to be playing - and I think there's no shame in remedying that collectively around the table by sharing brain power.
Any player could have voiced that the NPC was to be captured alive. That wouldn't have been "cheating". The player could have decided in full conscience whether he wanted the character to fuck up or not, and if so why, and what it meant for the game.
I mean, again to each their own, but that's just generating needless resentment around the table as far as I'm concerced.

>>94374863
>Lasombra
>italian
Are they? Certainly, they have a presence in the peninsula, but I don't remember whether the clan originated from there.
>some of the most powerful clans worldwide
Once you go past the self-aggrandizing tall-tales they tell themselves, are they, really?

Dear lord, I'm so starved for a vampire game I am seriously contemplating the idea of reinstalling Vampyr.

>>94374863
>>94374909
>>94374954
>>94375048
Weren't Lasombras in controll of church?

>>94375072
no. gratiano veronese was arch bishop of rio de janeiro, but i guess it was an isolated case.

>>94374986
>half the time the books forget the Giovanni exist
the giovanni are powerful enough to stay neutral. not many have that luxury
>Lasombra have to share the Sabbat with the Tzimisce
correction: lasombra OWN the sabbat, tzimisce included

>>94375048
Yeah I agree, the rest of the party were just as dumb for not speaking up. They're only mad at him in game, not above the table though, don't worry.
I don't tend to let things like that happen but I hit him with an are you sure and a big pause, and since taking him alive was a party decision not a campaign goal I don't think there was much more I could've done.

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>https://www.vekn.net/2-uncategorised/616-vampire-elder-kindred-network-newsletter-september-2024
>Draft is coming back to VTES! Black Chantry has given VEKN National Coordinators the chance of testing a print-on-demand draft kit for 8-10 players. Are you interested in testing this experience, talk to your National Coordinator.
Ladies and gentlemen, randomized card packs are back on the menu.

>>94375072
Certainly, they had infiltrated the institution, and had significant sway in its affais. In control? Unlikely.
Always keep in mind how often information provided on the setting is from unreliable narrators. The Lasombra have an ego, to say the least. The most likely interpretation is that they do tend to overexagerate their own greatness.
One reason why I somewhat like the V5 "treason" going into the Cam; they're being pegged down a notch, and it's going to make for very fun ego-bruised frictions.
Your mileage may vary, but at the very least I would definiely advise taking what vampires tell off themselves at face value. Hell, even the out of character even should be taken with a grain of salt.

>>94375151
God... don't do this to me. I don't think I have what it takes to run that locally the way I did for the Netrunner renaissance.

>>94375072
Control? No. A lot of influence? Absolutely. Even in the medieval period where other clans like the Ventrue and Toreador were manipulating the church the Lasombra had the most pull with them.

>>94375144
I'm not the biggest fan of the independent 4 in general, but I never got the impression their neutrality was a sign of power. Rather that they realized they could take advantage of the Camarilla-Anarch (proto sabbat anarchs) conflict and fencesit to their benefit.

As for the Lasombra pull in the Sabbat, idk. The only two canon regents we've ever had were a Tzimisce and a Toreador.

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>>94375185
I meant
>I would definitely advise AGAINST taking what vampires tell off themselves at face value
Just shoot me.

>>94375147
>They're only mad at him in game, not above the table though, don't worry.
All in good fun then? Good.

>>94373210
>I don't remember that... would make little sense, when would those happen then?
Sorry my fate fingers fucked up, what I meant to say was
>I believe V5 companion updated the rule so that both Bestial Failures and Messy Criticals can put you into Clan Compulsion

>>94374986
>??? I swear half the time the books forget the Giovanni exist and the Lasombra have to share the Sabbat with the Tzimisce.
Even the Tzimisce clanbook recognizes the Lasombra run the sect while they have to play the role of advisors. IIRC 3 out of the 4 regents have been Lasombra (as far as the rest of the sect was aware, lolMelinda).

>>94375272
Who are the other regents? I only know Gorchist (Tzimisce) and Melinda (Toreador).

>>94375185
>One reason why I somewhat like the V5 "treason" going into the Cam; they're being pegged down a notch

While I am sympathetic to this position, I think Camarilla Lasombra as a rule rather than exception takes a way a lot of their identity. Given how ridiculous their egos tend to be, I find it a hard sell like they'd ever submit in large numbers to the Camarilla and by proxy, the Ventrue. The Lasombra would rather go full Ozymandias than ever play second fiddle, and I find that fun about them. They're despoilers that have convinced themselves they're rulers, and playing nice in the Camarilla, essentially domesticated by their enemies, undermines that.

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>>94375185
It's never too late to re-join the eternal struggle.

>>94375283
>Who are the other regents? I only know Gorchist (Tzimisce) and Melinda (Toreador).

The tabletop never gave any other names, but this was mentioned way back in The Player's Guide to the Sabbat.

MET instead made Melinda the fifth regent, with three Lasombra before Gorchist.

>>94375283
>Melinda (Toreador)
Melinda posed as a Lasombra

Don't ask me how she hid her reflection from others

With the conversation at hand, I'm suddenly realizing something about how I tend to run Lasombras... in a book I'm currently reading one of the mot powerful man of his period is being described as a charisma void, often compared to a cold fish lost on land - I myself would very much make him a texbook Ventrue (notwithstanding he *is* part of the people that gave us the name in the first place), and would think of a Lasombra second. The Lasombra for me are not so much powerful (though they are) as much as in love with a certain idea of the representation of powerful people. Like many psycopaths, they're the people that look at the fictional bad guys - the Richelieu, the Gordon Gekkos, the Tony Montanas - and think "this is what I want to project". This is about image just as much as it is about power itself, despite the "puppetmaster" claims.
There's power, and then there's looking good weilding it... at least to those that matter.

>>94375272
Naaahh, thank you for taking the time, and no need for apologies - given my tendency for typoes and ill-chosen sentences opened to misinterpretation, I'm in no position to comment.

>>94375314
>They're despoilers that have convinced themselves they're rulers, and playing nice in the Camarilla, essentially domesticated by their enemies, undermines that.
Definitely a fair point, though I personally can totally picture them going full "we're going to wrestle control out of our enemies and end up in control, like the winners we are!" mode.

>>94375453
I can certainly agree that there is a performative aspect to the way Lasombra do just about everything.

Everyone likes to contrast the Ventrue and Lasombra, which is obvious given that the Lasombra very much started out as the edgier Sabbat Ventrue, but I wish there was more comparisons between the Lasombra and Brujah. As much as the Lasombra might dismiss them entirely, I actually see a ton of similarities between the Lasombra and Brujah.

>>94375435
>Don't ask me how she hid her reflection from others
It's Thaumaturgie, I don't have to explain shit.

Anyone else think California was a really weird place to make the Anarch heartland (or rather the closest thing to a heartland the pseudo-sect has)?

Maybe it's just my own biases, but California is peak American establishment with a shitload of financial and cultural orthodoxy coming out of California. Big tech, massive agriculture producers, Hollywood, hell Reagan got his start as the governor of California. Not to mention the insane wealth disparity. A lot of this stuff isn't even recent, so it always struck me as borderline delusional that L.A. would be the big Anarch stronghold.

>>94376283
I like that choice in the sense that it highlights there needn't be any alignement of human and vampiric political institutions.
Which in my opinion is good if, only in that it helps not using the later as an allegory of the former.

>>94375185
Part of the problem is large-scale narratives versus small-scale ones. On the large scale, they say Cainites do not control the Church. On the small, Monçada is so powerful that he's taken the Confession of kings and queens, de-facto controlled the Church within its home base, and has been described as choosing to not be Pope. That is control of the Church.

>>94375435
I'd figure, within the Sabbat, having too many mirrors in the office is considered gauche. It'd be like putting an Anglo Alarm System in the White House.

>>94376320
While direct allegory should probably be avoided, I think the supernatural world of any given place and time should mirror aspects or themes of the mundane world. Especially vampires, who are fairly reliant on humanity and in many cases seek power within or over mortal institutions. Especially since most vampires are young, even if Elders call most of the shots. It feels weird for these vampires, many of whom are from this particular place to be on an entirely different wavelength. Humanity is one of the key themes of Masquerade, so the mortal and undead parts of a locality being polar opposites is a bad call in my estimation.

My approach is that the mundane shapes the supernatural and the supernatural shapes the mundane. It doesn't have to be 1 for 1, but they should share themes. I don't see the appeal of urban fantasy if the mortal and supernatural world don't really affect each other.

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Help me out here brothers
>Finally convince people to play Mage the Ascension
>They're super into it
>They come up with super arcane and strange character concepts
Let's start with the easy ones
>First girl wants to be Cult of Ecstasy, Panist... specifically Kiss of Astarte. You know, probably the faction with the least amount of info in the game. She's adamant about this.
>Fine, I'll take the lack of fluff as a blessing.
>... but also wants to incorporate elements of Hagalaz and norse paganism...?
>Basically just wants to be a wiccan megaslut
>Fuck it she can figure out her paradigm
>Second girl wants to be Euthanatos, also adamant about being Hierochthonoi special snowflake that is as contemplative as the Pomegranate Deme and as combat-ready as a Knight of Radamanthys
>Basically just wants to be a wiccan goth femme fatale
>... a bit more normal I guess?
Now for the super special snowflake (admittedly I kinda like it but I have no idea how to help him build this thing)
>Can't find a tradition that fits this guy's concept
>He wants to be an eclectic enthusiast of the occult
>With a light power armor / magical transformation?
>He also wants to use demons...? (my fault for telling him that I'm going to ignore everything about Infernalism taboos and make Crowley historically a good guy)
Now, when it comes to rotes/equipment I have a few ideas. But I really need help figuring out which tradition or faction I'm going to shove his ass into, as well as some help building the paradigm of a character that's both very unusual but also very stereotypically chuuni.

>>94377100
My game had similarly eclectic characters.
>Shrine maiden [we decided this was a Dreamspeaker]
>Lovecraftian fish man [Never formerly decided but he was either a Nephandus or they wanted to turn him into one]
>Jojo blood magic Aztec mage [too weird, he’s an Orphan]
>Hermetic Mage. Weirdest thing about him was he’d do humbler budget magic.

>>94376283
I think the idea was that it was paralleling the Berkeley riots and possibly Silicon Valley techies. Remember this was made some years ago.

I don't know that LA is the right place to make the heartland for that though.

>>94377100
Honestly your group sounds awesome.

>>94377100
Uhhhh
>White Bitch #1
The weird thing is that Astarte is definitely not an earth goddess, but Inanna is more fun than Astarte anyways. Inanna, the goddess of Love and War, this mage will be a wiccan murderslut. Her Paradigm is Passion and Skill. She worships the Tribunal, especially Mephala.
>White Bitch #2
She worships Zagreus, she is the ecstatic warrior of Death-Into-Life. Her Paradigm is Transformation.
>White Bitch (Male) #3
Son of Ether, demons are entities of ether. Their ether powers the armor.

>>94377214
>Remember this was made some years ago.

Oh I know, it's why I brought up Hollywood who despite the accusations of communist sympathies has remained a largely establishment place (Hayes Code for one) and certainly was part of The Man by the time VtM was written. As well as the mainstream politicos they've produced. I suppose I can forgive them for not seeing Silicon Valley as the corporate tools they always were at the time, but it is still something I find rather inaccurate, even for the time it was written in.

Hell, this isn't to say there shouldn't be Anarchs in California insofar as there should be Anarchs holding ground anywhere, but the Anarchs and their flaws is a whole other discussion , just that California in general and L.A. in particular being the Anarch heartland always struck me as silly.

>TQ
One of my players called a Ravnos NPC a "dirty pike gypsy" and got a chuckle out of the table, except for one player.
He then called a bunch of (not)MS13 shovelheads "a bunch of wetback shitskin dog-rapists", and again, everyone except one person chuckled.
Since he thought he was super funny, he went ahead to become a caricature racist Ventrue.
He called a Samedi ally "a rot-nigger corpse molester", a Giovanni enemy "a raisin faced guinea goombah", referred to the nagaraja as "curry cannibals", told the gangrel player something along the lines of "if you help me out, I'll buy you a sexy golden retriever for you to hump to death" and mocked the KotE as "ching chong cat-eating kung-pow maggots."
Now, at first it was funny but this started to get the party in trouble. Also remember the player who didn't think shit was funny (Brujah)? I expected her to stop playing with us, but instead she decided to get her revenge... by shooting a flare while the party were being pursued by a Garou.
I was originally going to let them live, but both the Ventrue and Brujah kept bickering with each other. Long story short, it was a TPK.
The Ventrue's last words were "kill me already you flea ridden mutt mongrel, rip my spine off and shove it up your ass while you rape that Brujah bitch to death."

>>94375037

Honestly the answer to point 1 is "I want an excuse to see the bloodlines in play"

My immediate thought for point 2 was True Brujah, using Temporis bullshit to literally pull them out of time pre-final death, loyalty is a point I get stuck on outside of just pulling the old "level 3 blood bond" card which is boring

Outside of the Kisayd and maybe the Salubri (since the third eye only manifests on discipline use), I'm not sure the other bloodlines are that distinguishable? You do have the issue of having to fold several of them under "Nosferatu" (i.e. Harbringers, Samedi)

Elder motivation wise, if I'm going the Temporis angle, I could see two immediate angles of "things yet to come", either the city is going to wake up a methuselah (ala bloodlines) or they're responsible / complicit for the events that lead to the founding of the second inquisition?

>>94378561
Honestly, I respect that Brujah player, don't walk away from the table, have some fun with it even if it comes to burning the table with a flare gun.
Sounds like a fun chronicle.

>>94378588
I have a DoC in my chronicle.Be very careful you understand what a bloodline can do, especially something like Melpolmine. The ability to whisper to others across town alone is very strong, not to mention everything you can do with Madrigal. The only bloodline I've seen with a worse reputation for being hard to scale for is Trujah because Temporis is absolutely obscene and takes the already best discipline in the game (Celerity) to new heights.

>>94378588
Okay so fifth question, 100% earnest, not trying to get a rise out of you.

Do you have a group of players and do you think they'd go for this? It's real easy to come up with a game idea only to find that your players don't really fuck with the conceit. I say this because personally, I would not enjoy a game like the one you're proposing.

But I'm not your player, I'm just some Anon. So if you think your players would be down for this, and if they would find all the answers to be solid, go for it man.

Why did W5 made the Get of Fenris into badguys? They are one of the more reasonable tribes compared to fanatics like the Children of Gaia.

>>94378663
anger bad

>>94378663
X5 and 20 have notoriously bad writing.
Take the rules, take some of the lore ideas you like and everything else goes straight down the shredder.

>>94378677
But Anger is the center of the game. And at least the Red Talons and Wendigo are even angrier than the GoF, possibly the Black Furies, too.
>>94378693
I like how they are written in Werewolf Wild West where they try to grab native Caerns but leave them alone if the Pure Tribes are able to defend them (and even the Wendigo secretly know that the GoF are honorable warriors).
And Achilli was Co-Developer of that game.

>>94374863
The Vatican is in the pocket of a lot of WOD forces. The society of st leopold is Protestant.

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>>94372499
>even the tzimisce was invited
Pyramidbros...

>>94378663
W5's muslim producer was fucking insistent on having nazi werewolves and shoehorned the Get into that role whether they fit or not.
Fuck you Karim Muammar.

>>94378914
>nazi werewolves
If only there was some tribe obsessed with Pure Breed. That would fit the Nazi imagery better than the Fenrir, especially if such a tribe also demands to be the one in charge.

>>94378693
I was hyped for Victorian Age Mage so I could get some sweet Son of Ether lore for my own games (I was expecting something useful, even if I had to rework it).

Instead I got "Whitie bad" for the Order of Reason and the SoE obsessed with fucking Wakanda.

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>>94378663
because they were the white tribe, can't have that

>>94379141
If any of the tribes is "white coded" its the Silverfangs and the Children of Gaia. Unless you are saying that proposing meritocracy is exclusive to whites.

Since we're on the topic, what ethnicity are Red Talon's human forms supposed to take, from a stereotypical perspective?

>>94379179
the first human they see or if they never see one homid ancestors from before the time they had no homids rule iirc

>>94379163
The Get of Fenris is the major Germanic tribe

Silver Fangs are Slavs and Children of Gaia are mutts

>>94379236
>Children of Gaia are mutts
So are American "whites".

>>94378650

Yes and fuck knows, if I knew the idea would be a hit I wouldn't be trying to crowdsource ideas on a mongolian basketweaving forum

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>>94378663
>https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964?

> At first, Muammar suggested that all Fenrir were Nazis/SoH. Then, when he was provided with evidence that it was a small faction that was eliminated in the early 2000’s, he started to shift toward the idea that we should not follow the lore Finally, when every single member of the writer’s team flatly refused to provide what would essentially be “a player’s guide to being a Nazi werewolf” the writing was on the wall about the end of our involvement with this product. More than once, he suggested that we were cowardly social justice warriors for being unwilling to work with this concept, even though there were several attempts to write a heroic version of the Fenrir that were focused on undoing these ills of the past.

this is the guy in charge of wod under paradox...

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>>94370358
>Sorta tangential and I never found a thread dedicated to the system, but since has heavily influenced both old and new Mage I'll ask here: has anyone here DMed or played Ars Magica?

i played ars magica and thus also ran it because we did the whole trope thing and i liked it(and also kinda off topic talked about it in this thread a few months ago), it's kinda like mage in that you can do a lot if you combine all 5 techniques and 10 forms of magic together, but it's very different from mage in that you have pages and number tables for every single combination, concentration, lab experiments a shit ton of premade spells that you modifiy using number tables so there is no arguing about if your mage can do that because the book took time to write it ALL down but it's a lot, not m20 lot, but like 200 page of which the base magic (and concentration and magic resistance) system is 20 pages 20 pages just for your lab and then another 50 pages for techniques, forms and spells related to them (pic related is one combination out of 50 althought other tables are often smaller i just went for the biggest one i could find) and that's just the corebook other books also add merit like advantages and more spells related to each house and even alternative magic systems for hedge mages and the order of odin and such..
now i am the german stereotype that does not didn't mind having a excel file and notes for my character so i like stuff like that but i can see why possibly having like 4 number tables that relate to 1 spell might be too much for other people even if those number tables only add like a +3 +1 -1 +1 etc to the rolls so i can see why it's more niche than wod

>How does it play, how hard is it to run, and which editions are considered good?
we played 5th with a few bits of 4th edition because that's what my friend had but i heard there is a "definite edition" out now however i haven't read it

>>94375151
>bans cards that has "gypsy" and "rom" in it because "muh racism"
>release a "shilmulo tarot" card
Why?

>>94377100
Your thrid player is basicaly a Hollow One.

>>94374970
>>94379277
Giving it some thoughts, a possible short synopsis.
A/The cabal behind the circulatory system wants to move to the next step: they want long term analysis of the evolution of the bouquet/effects of vitae as a (feeding) resource for elders.
For that purpose they've used a lot of their influence to create three coteries. A "pure-blood" clan one with the best pedigree, a mish mash of rare bloodlines, and a very diluted sabbat pack mainy made of panders.
They're going to pit them and use the city as a playing ground to test various hypothesis. Some of the eldest in the city are in on /some/, if not all, of the project, paying back prestation as ways to help it all enfold, but at the start at least none knows *all* of it, nor who else is in on the project.
The first thing players will notice is that sometimes (just the once if your players are the right level of paranoia, in which case the agents charged with taking the blood had an issue and couldn't deal with it fast enough), they'll be missing *two* blood points at the start of the night instead of one.
All that of course is going to happen as other vampiric political bullshit enfolds and throws a wrench in everything, because it's VtM.

>>94376762
I understand the sentiment, but (call me lazy) I tend to prefer to incarnate those elements into NPCs than make local institutions (in the loosest sense) too structurally similar.
There's bound to be an influence of the locals, but then elements like, say, different history in the human and vampiric immigration waves can lead to major differences.

>>94380128

This is my first time reading about The Circulatory System (I only have the barest familiarity with V5 lore) but I'm not enthused

You have given me an adjacent idea however, we know from assamite sorcery that large quantities of blood can be used to reduce generation outside of diablerie, so maybe some variant on that where [someone] is trying to distill the essence of bloodlines to elevate their own clan?

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Could Caine be cured of vampirism? If so, what would happen?
I get that he is a creature of greed and pride, and if he would just repent the curse would be lifted. But how realistic would it be for, say, a hunter with level 10 true faith to cure him of his vampirism using a miracle?
Ignore the issue of finding Caine for this scenario.
The wiki does list a curing vampirism miracle, but I'm not sure how canonical it is. As written, it says:
>Cleanse someone from the Embrace! The target must want it and have gone through a significant and dramatic story. Faith roll diff 10, and the vampire becomes a mortal or alternatively, achieve Golconda.
It doesn't specify any limitations other than that the subject "must want it" and "have gone through a significant and dramatic story." Of course, Caine is beyond normal storyteller rules.
For the latter, Caine has suffered for tens or hundreds of thousands of years for murdering Able and getting cursed by the archangels. I'd say that qualifies.
The former is the bigger issue. For one, no one really has any idea what's going through Caine's head. In Gehenna, it lists a scenario where Lucifer convinces Caine to repent (or at least stop resisting repentance) by taking him back to when he killed Able. I would assume that feat goes beyond the abilities of most anyone else. However, a character with level 10 true faith would be (if I understand correctly) basically Jesus, and probably very convincing. Miracles can be loosely defined, so could such a character maybe accomplish a similar feat?
I assume being 'cured' in this way would lift what happened with Lilith's awakening ritual, but not the curse he received before that.
In Gehenna, when Caine is destroyed, all kindred suffer final death. Would that happen? Does Caine know that will happen when he dies?
Or none of the above?

>>94377100
3rd guy fits in with the hollow ones. The hellblazer kind of hollowers.

>>94380929
the thing is ... the relation between the curse of caine and the man himself and the fall out of breaking the curse is inconsistent between the gehenna scenarios in one scenario if he repents or dies it kills all cainites that haven't also drank the blood of lilith, in one has actually been dead for a unknown while and it did nothing to cainites and saulot lifting curse instead turned everyone human again instead of killing them and in yet another scenario ends with him in the ashes of a post apocalyptic world screaming at god for not letting him die at all

so you have 3 completely different answers depending on 3 scenarios

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>>94372499
So as someone who's never played or ran a WoD/CoD game am I supposed to just run these as like social sandboxes? Make a city, note down important characters etc, give the group some task to start with while they're low on the social ladder and see how they handle it while they try to make connections to climb up the ranks? Sort of like a soap opera thing?

>>94380929
I always thought that if Caine were to be cured that the curse would unravel and vampires would slowly turn mortal again, from lowest generation to highest. The tables would turn and in the end the weakest thinblood would be vastly more powerful than the now-mortal methuselahs, at least physically since vampiric institutions wouldn't immediately go up in smoke.

Better question: could Caine be cured of homosexuality?

>>94381146
that's kinda what happens when the curse is broken in one gehenna scenario, but that's the one in which he is dead all along

>>94379000
>Check Gods, Monsters and Strangers for enemy ideas
>The most uninspired shit I've ever seen to the point that I'm better off with my own already poor imagination
>Check the Book of the Nephandi. This one's gotta have something good, right?
>Lmao here's a multi paragraph rant bitching about cryptobros and elon musk
I'm done. If my uninspired anime/gaming/comic/novel/movie rip off ideas are more appealing than their "lore", these "writers" have outlived their usefulness.
Someone should edit modern WoD's garbage fluff out and leave just the crunch.

>>94381127
That's one way to do things, probably most popular for VtM.
You can also have a more focused or borderline railroaded story too. I.e. the adventures of a ragtag werewolf commando pack entering a megacorp factory and fucking shit up.

>>94381127
You certainly can run a sandbox social climber story. It's a good choice if your players are proactive and can set goals for their own characters, and can be very good if you just want a long running character driven game. Since you can kinda just keep coming up with new problems for them to deal with until everyone's either done, or feels like they've reached a natural conclusion. You could even come back to it years later realistically, since there isn't a tight and focused narrative that demands a conclusion with a sense of finality. It also plays well with the concept of immortality and the creeping realization that your unlife will only ever end with Final Death, there is no retirement, no riding off into the sunset, because the Jyhad is eternal.

However it tends to flounder if you have passive players that need to be pushed in the right direction more often than not. It also isn't a good choice for groups that like shorter length games, since if you start at the bottom or near bottom as neonates, it will take you quite some time to work your way into the top unless the players do something very bold early on and have the brains to pull it off. You might also find that as time goes on and that each PC has more power, they might end up retreating into their own personal schemes too often.

So there's pros and cons to that style of play.

>>94380128
I wouldn't call you lazy, I'm not so arrogant as to think my way is the only correct way. It's just... what I like. And I like it when the lines between the mundane and the supernatural get blurry. If a powerful elder from back when Burgundia was its own kingdom moves to a place, and starts influencing the local kine institutions, there will be a knock-on effect to the place's character. And of course, any new childer sired in this place will reflect their upbringing, the circumstances of their mortal life. Now you could easily say that plopping a bunch of immortal bloodsuckers anywhere should make the place's culture different to what it is in real life, and yeah that is probably true, but then we're playing althist. So instead I like to work backwards and figure out what the "character" of a place, for lack of a better term is and then decide what kind of vampires it would attract and breed would be.

Of course, I do agree that the mortal and immortal institutions would not be 1 for 1, the Camarilla for example is very archaic in a lot of ways when compared to its usual host cultures. One of my biggest pet peeves with the setting is the tendency to paint the entire middle east as "that place with all the muslim vampires", just 1 for 1 copy-pasting mortal religion onto its Kindred, and with none of the nuance that exists even within one religion or one culture, let alone the multitudes that exist within the region. If I were ever to commit to a full rewrite of the region, I wouldn't just copy the regional politics or religious movements from the last 100-1000 years, but I would definitely try to draw inspiration from it to create something more than a rather bland brick of sameness.

Not trying to convince you of my position, I just want to explain my reasoning in full.

One thing I routinely find fascinating about the various WoDs is how many people can say "I like this" while vehemently disagreeing on so many facets of it.

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>>94380090
>>94380985
I was thinking more of an orphan?
Like, former Etherite who either got kicked out or just went his own way to learn from other traditions and sources, but kept his powersuit.

>>94381458
>However it tends to flounder if you have passive players that need to be pushed in the right direction more often than not. It also isn't a good choice for groups that like shorter length games, since if you start at the bottom or near bottom as neonates, it will take you quite some time to work your way into the top unless the players do something very bold early on and have the brains to pull it off. You might also find that as time goes on and that each PC has more power, they might end up retreating into their own personal schemes too often.

We had this problem with two players new to WoD in our chronicle. One of them has been making more of an effort as of late, but the other still has "no idea what's happening, doesn't know what to do, and feels that there is no plot/the plot isn't moving". It's been 22 sessions.

Wasn't there a website or folder with editable character sheets?

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I've been playing Prototype and it's crazy how well it aligns with a Deviant game.
>Mercer is basically a pathological (arguably) renegade mutant grappling with his humanity or lack thereof motivated by revenge
>GENTEK and Blackwatch act as Conspiracies
>Dana acts as his loyalty touchstone
>The D-Codes are basically Devouted deviants.
Even the "Web of Intrigue", which itself is similar to some of the mechanics dismantling a Conspiracy hints that there are many and greater Conspiracies at play, which is obviously like the idea of the Web of Pain
I was legitimately surprised when I read back to the book and didn't find it to be an inspiration. Seems more fitting than Bioshock anyway.

>>94382166
MrGone?

>>94381415
What kinda structure would work the best for the other gamelines? I guess Werewolf might be suitable for more railroady adventures due to its larger focus on combat but what about something like Mage or Changeling? What about the CoD versions of the lines?

Anyone know where/on what websites I can find Hunter groups?
Been reading Reckoning 1e lore books and I'm fucking pumped.
oWOD Hunter: The Reckoning would be dope but I will settle for anything Hunter.

Why did they change the skills between Revised and 20th edition?
It just makes it harder to merge the edition with good art and the one with erretaed mechanics and agnostic metaplot.

>>94383102
Most Hunter groups aren't in Reckoning stuff, Reckoning was a relative latecomer doing its own thing.

Try Hunters Hunted, both original and V20 as well as really any Hunter: the Vigil book, almost all of them add new hunter groups you can play as.

If the Scooby Gang are just hunters, what splat is Scooby-Doo himself?

>>94383612
Deviant

>>94379936
It's not just the Fenrir. He pretty much thinks that everyone who played W:tA prior to W5 is on board with the Swords. Hence the connection that the text makes with Hauglosk and ecofascism.

>>94384516
Scratch an anti-ecofascist, a liberal bleeds

>>94374954
That X makes no sense there. "Español" can't be turned into another "latinx".
Learn the language before trying to butcher it.

>>94385270
That latinx doesn't make sense, either.

>>94382784
Like others have said, it heavily depends on your players more than the gamelines. Proactive players will thrive in sandboxes regardless of the game.
Personally, I like to start WoD chronicles in a small, contained "mini sandbox" that allows for players to show me whether they are proactive or not, and to intervene in order to move the story forward.
>VtM: Players introduce themselves to the local Prince during a gathering he's holding, but one VIP is found dead with a stake through the heart. Find the culprit or face suspicions.
>WtA: Players arrive at a tiny, borderline ghost town that for some reason has caught the interest of a certain megacorp. Do they go all out and try to destroy whatever they're building near the lake, or investigate further and find the secrets this place holds?
>MtA: Players are mysteriously invited to stay at a "haunted" hotel, which turns out to be under control of a cult. The hotel has reality shifting areas where they can enter the Umbra. This allows players to use some vulgar magic while easing them into coincidental magic and paradox.
>CtD: Players arrive at a convention center holding a fantasy writer's conference. In the basement, however, there's a small game of political backstabbing by the kith
>WtO: Do people even play this one? No idea desu.
>MtR: lmao nobody plays this
>DtF: Players start in a hospital located either in a warzone or in a really, really shitty neighborhood. They take over the bodies of dying people, but a bunch of low life gang members take the hospital hostage. Both the hostage situation and the setting itself are ripe for players to get familiar with Faith.
>HtR: Never played this. But I'd try something 80s Horror and Slasher inspired, maybe the players are trying to protect a bunch of teenagers in the woods and each decision they take may or may not end with these NPCs killed.

>>94378663
By Revised, the Get were basically the tribe of anger for anger's own sake, and W5 chose it's back to basics in the form of "Rage is a curse. It's at best a very dangerous tool."

So... starting gear/weapons/toys/whatever.
How much is too much? How many are too many?

>>94379000
>SoE obsessed with fucking Wakanda.
Now see for me that fits with the way that theosophists and "psychic researches" were obsessed with stealing shit from the pyramids and the Himalayas.

>>94385358
Under normal circumstances? Totally, yeah.
But after a lecture of "umm akshually white peepo are the devils", we know it's just political brainrot and bad writing.

>>94384516
Werewolves are panglossian ultra-nationalists who've committed dozens of genocides in the name of their tribe's dominance of the world, they aren't not fascists.

>>94385380
They're literally building a linear path around snorting ground up mummy bones of course they're the devil.

>>94372499
Would anyone be willing to help a vampire lore illiterate anon and explain the OP image? I assume they all represent the different types of vampire?

>>94379163
I mean....

I miss playing WOD so much. I'm so fucking sick of DND. Waste of my fucking time with retarded shitheads who make bullshit 2 dimensional joke characters and can't be arsed to give a flying fuck about anything other than killing things and watching their numbers go up. I miss WoD so much.

>>94385454
As if many people didn't play WoD the same way.
Neonates were supposed to improve their Generation through Diablerie, there were premade modules for it.

>>94385422
They're all characters from the game VTM: Bloodlines. Left to right is Beckett, Velvet, Nines, Andrei, Jeanette, Damsel, and Smiling Jack. It's referring to a pivotal decision you make during the game.

>>94385338
I played Wraith recently. We were young ghosts protecting our haunt (a disused old house on the outskirt's of down rumored to be haunted by local superstitions) from paranormal hobbyists moving around the place trying to get famous and become the next Ghost Hunters or Paranormal Lockdown. It was a joy to freak them out of our house so they stopped breaking the furniture for clips and it gave our Shadows plenty to do offering more extreme options to solving our problems. Of course, more public hauntings attract hunters and exorcists so you've got to balance things.

>>94385342
No, not really. Revised had a lot of the setting on a kind of turnaround to wind up for the end, and the Get were only extreme in their willingness to injure themselves (frex, the fetish to get extra soak against spirit attacks that requires flaying yourself, on your own, and making leather from your skin. Why the hesitation? You can heal.)

Also, Rage is vastly overhyped as the downfall of the Garou. Convincing themselves that they were the best and most special didn't require any Rage at all.

>>94385390
Karim is that you? I'd ask why you're wasting time here, but given how apocalyptically bad the editing was for the Cam book, it's not worth asking.

>>94385380
Please ask him about Yakub

>>94385464
I'm sure people do play it that way, but my experience in the past was that the players were more invested than the average dnd player. Just let me be nostalgic and angry.

>>94385464
Even the most John Wick-brained Action ADHD trigger happy WoD player is a lot more engaged than the average D&D player.

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>>94380066
I've already explained this several times but here we go again.
The ban of "offensive" cards was mandated by Paradox (largely because they wanted to keep up with WotC's efforts), the team running the card game negotiated that World of Darkness can handle more mature themes than Magic and they managed to reach compromise of culling just "the worst offenders" instead of everything that could potentially trigger someone.
Also because the problem was just the names each of the banned cards got functional reprint at same or (when justified) slightly higher power level.
So Paradox execs were satisfied with minimal impact on the game.

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Why is there a werewolf tribe called Black Furries? That's oddly specific, considering most furries are German, not black.

>>94386483
Black Furrest (Schwarzwald) happens to be in Germany

>>94385826
>exchanging a delicious tomboy gypsy woman for a generic ash-skin indian woman
That's what I call a nerf.

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>>94386518

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>>94386483
yes hench why you needed to be able to call them apart from the non black furries in germany

we tried the glasswalker tribe, but litteraly every furry works in IT in germany so that went nowhere
my boss actually send that pic into our work chat to ask if he would see anyone of us at a convention a few months ago... i hate him

Hedgefag?

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>>94386740
>spoilers
Grim.

>>94385464
Admittedly, the concept was much more about a very rapid Humanity descent, followed by redemption or death. You were supposed to give up Humanity for power. Hording Humanity like it's Deb at Night bathwater is a result of making the setting more grim.

>>94386483
Looks like a North Sea problem... Maybe the Normans were the good guys all along...

>>94387128
>Hording Humanity like it's Deb at Night bathwater
We can hoard Deb at Night's bath water?

>>94387158
Too late, the Ventrue have almost all of it.

>>94379936
I can't wait for these parasites to get purged like they deserve. The backlash for this type of shit has been building for a Loooong time...

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>>94379936
>Muammar
Thanks, Sweden!

Honestly Werewolf just needs a ground-up rewrite anyway. I don't think anyone's ever watched An American Werewolf in London (or even An American Werewolf in Paris), The Wolf Man (any of them), Dog Soldiers, Ginger Snaps, the Howling, Teen Wolf, Brotherhood of the Wolf, or...really, any werewolf media except for W:tA, and decided that what really needs to be added is a Captain Planet/Spirituality angle.

You know who did? Stephanie Meyer. You wanna be like Stephanie Meyer?

>>94381576
>One thing I routinely find fascinating about the various WoDs is how many people can say "I like this" while vehemently disagreeing on so many facets of it.
My own personal take was always that the WoD was a success in no small part because it was a failure in design (and it was such because most peope working on it were stuck with old school thought patterns even as they tried to make something new - if/when they did). Had it been a proper example of what the original designers wanted it to be, it more than probably would have been more niche.
These days we have games that are better designed in the sense that the mechanical constraints they create are better fiited to the experience they try offer the players, but then they leave a lot less margins for players that aren't' interested in those very specific framings.
Granted even with more generalists games, my observation is a general distate in the players themselves for compromising games in order to make them happen ("my way or no way") regardless of game design.

>>94387426
For me it’s the fact that this gothic cinematic version of real life is flexible enough to accomplish almost any modern era movies as plots. Jurassic Park? The Terminator? The Matrix? Big Trouble in Little China? It’a a modern fantasy kitchen sink and the dark horror trappings lends it a unique identity so it doesn’t feel like it’s just a container for running old movies. It also serves as motivating a desire to burn it down. Because the world is so bad, it makes one want to defy that, or play into it and be a bastard.

>>94387421
Splatterpunk Captain Planet is way more interesting then a normal werewolf story. If you aren’t ripping apart cigar chomping Fomori with chainguns with your teeth to destroy a factory that makes children’s pharmaceuticals that makes those who use them disobey their parents you’re doing it wrong. Fucking love Werewolf.

>>94378693
>Take the rules, take some of the lore ideas you like and everything else goes straight down the shredder.
NTA, but I've been voluntold to run w5 for my table (which is entirely fair given what I've done to our current ST's game), so I plan to do exactly this. Seeing male Black Furies and homid Red Talons in the book told me everything I needed to know about the writing quality. I don't even fucking like either of those tribes.

>>94387421
You can always play Monster Hearts if you want that kind of werewolf.

>>94387421
That's what W:tF is for, anon.

>>94387421
If I wanted to play a normal ass werewolf I'd go play something else.
I want ultraviolent Captain Planet ecoterrorist wolf commando assholes with spiritual PTSD.
There's so much wrong with WoD writing but the base flavor is one of the good things.

>>94372499
What do you guys think of Exalted vs World of Darkness?
Also are there any other similar fan works that add more playable creatures to the setting?

>>94387660
I’ve been running it for years, it’s really good but has a few issues that need fixing. As to fansplats there’s dozens of them out there, of varying quality and states of completion.

>>94387421
I am that faggot who got into W:tA because in my teenage years I listened to that Slipknot album they pretend doesn't exist. I don't think there's any other werewolf story that's going to scratch that specific itch for me.
I never agreed with the hamfisted politics in it, but it's still fun using them to roleplay a sanctimonious hypocrite lying to himself that he's a good person as he arranges a false flag tram bombing.

>>94372499
He decided to be a faggot and emotionally abuse his wife.

I'm dropping him from the game before it even starts.

>>94387660
Exalted is on the same wavelength as my least favorite parts about oWoD, the "woah look how huge my dick is, I am super cool and special I beat methuselah no diff". So no, not really my cup of tea.

There are a shitload of fansplats in general though, of highly variable quality. I would like more playable monsters, though I think one of the problems that WoD has had, official and unofficial is its unwillingness to embrace the monster. To me it feels like after vampire, every type of supernatural creature gets less and less like an actual monster with only a few notable exceptions.

There's also only so many types of monsters that have enough depth to cover an entire game-line on their own, which is a problem they ran into as early as Werewolf, hence why they went so off the rails with it.

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>>94387870
Pretty much every WoD game after Vampire leaned much more heavily into the urban fantasy side of the setting so it’s always weird for me [who loves pretty much every single WoD splat] to hear people who are mainly into the street level gritty horror experience. Wraith and parts of Demon kind of play well with that but even Mummy and Werewolf are more horror adventure and then you get to Mage and Changeling and it’s flat out urban fantasy.

>>94387660
>What do you guys think of Exalted vs World of Darkness?
Probably the least shit version of Exalted out there.
>Also are there any other similar fan works that add more playable creatures to the setting?
There are plenty but most of them are very niche like Highlander, Sailor Moon and Disney Gargoyles.
CofD has more fan splats but most of their mechanics are borderline unplayable so just take their lore and use it for a Horror statblock.
>>94387421
There's a STV book detailing more generic werewolves without the spiritual stuff. They are pretty basic but they give a decent outline of what to do mechanically and what plots you can run with their version of Werewolf.

>>94387870
>Exalted is on the same wavelength as my least favorite parts about oWoD, the "woah look how huge my dick is, I am super cool and special I beat methuselah no diff". So no, not really my cup of tea.
I get that.
I personally like it.
Specially in the dark ages setting with more open vampire interference and lower generations being much more common.
And in general all the splats gaing more free to act as they please.
You can have alot of fun in a grimdark medieval europe stomping monsters and rebuilding rome as godkings.

>>94372499
I'm pretty sure this is the face everyone made when my Malkavian opened the box in my first playthru.

>>94387894
>Street level

Don't put buzzwords into my mouth, I'm not one of those "personal horror" "it's supposed to suck" weirdos. You don't have to stay at the bottom In fact, I love it when the PCs actually get stronger and make something of themselves. One of my favorite RPG experiences ever was starting from the bottom as a Ventrue borderline fledgling straight out of the agoge to a "signature character" level freak of raw power and influence for her age. but I don't like how quickly oWoD goes off the deep end. I want there to be *some* grounding to the supernatural fights and intrigue. Most importantly, I like it when mortals can still be a plausible threat despite your supernatural powers, without having to pull out the missile strikes and IFVs.

>>94387914
I'm not against higher levels of vampire interference, I definitely give vampires more power in the modern nights than the default assumption from even revised. Vampire Illuminati is my favorite part of VtM that doesn't have a lot of official support, my issue is when oWoD starts playing this dick measuring contest with itself and completely ungrounds itself from the reality that helps contrast the strange and magical. And most importantly, when it removes monstrous elements from the monsters so players can play a good boi with no effort required.

Legitimately, is my position that weird? Why is it that whenever I say I don't like the gonzo stuff, people assume I'm one of those misery circle jerk "dude street level" types?

>>94383612
>what splat is Scooby-Doo himself?
Rank 6+ Kami.

>>94382580
They listed Prototype as an inspiration early on but had to remove that for whatever legal or corporate reason.
But yeah odds are you can play a group of whatever Mercer is with very little effort.

>>94388000
>I like it when mortals can still be a plausible threat despite your supernatural powers, without having to pull out the missile strikes and IFVs.
That's street level. At the point where you're punching people through solid walls and tossing cars, you're already past the limit of what a guy with a gun can realistically hope to handle.

Is there any way for a Sin Eater to become intangible, fly or posses people?

>>94388000
>I want there to be *some* grounding to the supernatural fights and intrigue. Most importantly, I like it when mortals can still be a plausible threat despite your supernatural powers, without having to pull out the missile strikes and IFVs.
That is something that each table has to make happen.
After all it is you and your story teller that are directing the action and pace of the story.

my issue is when oWoD starts playing this dick measuring contest with itself and completely ungrounds itself from the reality that helps contrast the strange and magical. And most importantly, when it removes monstrous elements from the monsters so players can play a good boi with no effort required.
Again that is very much under your control.

>Why is it that whenever I say I don't like the gonzo stuff, people assume I'm one of those misery circle jerk "dude street level" types?
Imo it is because your big issues are just tone and pacing and those are under your control.
While trying to "fix them" unironically leads to 5e where options are taken away and you are strong armed into a certain play style.

>>94387421
That was the original plan with W:tA. It was super-boring because the players just chained themselves up during the full moon and did nothing during the day.

>>94388039
>It was super-boring because the players just chained themselves up during the full moon and did nothing during the day.
Yeah, because what the fuck else would the character do unless they were complete psychos?

>>94387421
I know werewolve has some gay themes but making them also extremely racist genociders is funny so in my book they come up on the positive side.

>>94388000
Honestly it’s mostly just weird. My usual complaint is that WoD IS exactly what you’re talking about and outside of Mage lacks much support for high level play. Most high level stuff is unstatted or is unimpressive, the rules for military hardware are bad, there’s no rules for bureaucratic or mass combat actions, and the setting is bloated with characters who you can never approach. Your take sounds to me like complaining about a lack of health food options at a Fat Camp. Are we even playing the same game?

>>94388035
I'm not talking one dude with a gun here. I'm talking tactical teams, especially if armed with weapons that take advantage of the supernatural's weakness. Or in a more archaic example, a group of knights who know they're dealing with the devil's own and have prepared accordingly. Am I not explaining things enough? I figured it was obvious I wasn't talking about some rando with a gun.

>>94388038
Well obviously I run my games in the way I want, I even said as much earlier. This is easy to accomplish in vampire, but I dislike splats like Mage or CtD because they don't really fit into what I want. My group's WoD is very different from the "default". I am not advocating the entire thing change to fit my specific taste, this whole thing started from explaining the parts of the setting I dislike, I thought that much was clear given the context of how the conversation began.

>>94388059
Evidently not. I wouldn't be against more official support for high level play, as long as that ceiling isn't so high players are effectively free from consequence and can only be clapped by similar demigods. Rules for military hardware are 100% shit, yeah. Though admittedly it is hard to mechanically handle a lot of the intricacies of weapons. As for things like mass combat, I have never encountered mass combat rules I liked without caveat. Some things are best left to the GM doing mental calculus based on the player's actions and the odd roll.

As for the bloat of official characters, while I kinda get that, I just see it as a challenge to kill them as long as they have stats. I recall some people here planning on how they would realistically kill Mithras.

Suppose I found a den of changelings last night. Would it be wrong to grab my .22, load every shot with iron bullets, and clear it out? Just asking

>>94387660
There's a recent STV book that adds mortals who eat gods, fairies and mythical creatures for extended life+powers, which is pretty neat. They're mainly antagonists to the PCs (think Bygone Bestiary+Changeling) but the rules are thorough enough to play either side.

>>94388171
wrong thread, m8

>>94388180
Would it help if I said they have a Malkavian with them?

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>>94388158
Yeah evidently not. For my take-
>There is no passive defense in WoD besides Soak so your number of defensive actions is your cap on actively defending yourself. Meaning the only way to survive against a mass of enemies is with a big area of effect power, or by Soakmaxxing. Very few characters [mostly Fortitude maxing elders or Werewolves stacking multiple Soak Gifts] are capable of fighting off a few dozen ordinary men trying to kill them with small arms or swords.
>There are no rules or bad rules for most high level entities [ancient vampires, archmages , powerful spirits, Etc]. Many times the game just tells you the entity is a plot device and you die.
>Military hardware is likewise usually massively overblown when it’s included at all.
>There’s no rules for mass combat or for social or bureaucratic actions against many targets.
>The setting itself is very top heavy, run by monolithic entities you have little hope of opposing even if you’re one of these unstatted/poorly statted high level characters.
>I’ve been running Exalted vs World of Darkness and have had to provide most of these things myself by writing or porting a bunch of subsystems. WoD includes some gonzo fluff in places but does nothing to support using it as anything but a cudgel for the Storyteller.

In short I actually wanted to allow for what you say you don’t want. Demigods who can only be clapped by other demigods [or weakness exploitation or huge Masquerade shredding military responses] and I had to do most of the legwork myself because it’s not supported by World of Darkness despite some of this gonzo stuff existing in fluff. Godzilla may be canon to WoD but the only way to stat him is by taking mechanics from the First Editions of Exalted or Aberrant.

>>94388171
Do it, it will be funny to see from a far.

>>94388188
You could make Godzilla as a Fomor I think.

Have you ever heard any podcast/youtube series about the game not end up being turbocringe?

>>94388218
To make a convincing Godzilla you’d want ACC, DMG, Soak, and Health in the 20-40 range plus a variety of powers including the atomic breath. There’s a couple ways to hack that in in oWoD but it’s definitely not intended you pretzel the game to have him show up, especially not as a Player Character or think PCs are expected to beat. I did a one shot one where the party fought King Ghidorah once, party was a monster mash of any splat. It was fun,

>>94388239
Not really, most of them just sound kind of sad and anemic.
>>94388240
If you really wanted to make a Godzilla PC you would be better off building some rank 6 mokole with translated gifts. I'm not saying it would be a good character but there are rules for it.

>>94388239
WoD has a Podcast community?

>>94388276
Yeah, it's mostly people bitching about the lore or poorly recorded games.

>>94388239
One i can recommend is Port Saga on spotify. Its 2 seasons and like 16 episodes i think of a radio drama about a Malkavian returning to his old haunts to find out his sire has been murdered and hes the only one that gives a shit. Luckily its a Malkavian being played subtly with stuff like hearing music that denotes if blood was spilled in lust or anger and the like and has a pretty decent cast for what is not a "muh mary sue is going to crybully her way to the top of the ivory tower and teach people that the brujah we secretly the jesus y'all need" but a good story about revenge and what the beckoning is causing in less important towns in america as people have to deal with older vampires going schizo.

>>94388286
Wow, sounds gay.

>>94388292
>"muh mary sue is going to crybully her way to the top of the ivory tower and teach people that the brujah we secretly the jesus y'all need"
Gonna take a guess that erika ishii has been branching out from just dungeons and dragons?

>>94388300
It is.

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>>94388303

>>94388239
I always enjoyed Neon Masquerade solo sessions. It's fun and Karen Anatos is part of it. I like her as a character.

>>94388292
This seems interesting. Gonna give it a try these days.

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How gonzo are your games?

>>94388352
What do you mean?

>>94388052
You could ask the same thing about why vampires don’t just exclusively feed from blood banks, no? I mean in a strictly mechanical sense, at least up thru V20 as long as you have a full blood pool it’s pretty easy to avoid frenzy and Rotschreck. Most Disciplines don’t need you to spend blood and you only consume 1 vitae/night so it should be pretty easy to stay “topped up” even if you want to do cool supernatural things. It should be *easy* to maintain Humanity 7. The reason why it isn’t is less because of the Beast inside of you and more because of the assholes that are other vampires, whose unlives suck and so are taking it out on other people - or, because your very human side looks at all your cool new powers and goes from “Incan use this to make my life better” to “because I have these powers I DESERVE to have a better life”.

You’d think a Werewolf game might take a similar approach. Yeah, you’ve got a ravenous wolf inside you that every full moon drives you to do awful things, but it should nominally be pretty easy to keep a lid on that as long as you can buy some good chains and a solid door to your basement. The real Hell, just like in Vampire, should be other people.

>>94388186
Eh, you do you. In my opinion /schreck/ already has way too much cross-splatting, but that's partially because I legit dislike over half of oWoD's splats.

>>94388496
>What do you mean?
It's mostly a question of how "out there" and bizarre you make your iteration of the world before adding the more obvious supernatural stuff.
>>94388530
>You could ask the same thing about why vampires don’t just exclusively feed from blood banks, no?
Yes but that's part of the point. Vampires have a whole lot of political drama to keep themselves busy, most werewolf depictions don't have a good way to make them the protagonists without making some variation of "get rid of the curse" the main plot.

>>94388637
Which ones do you hate and why?

>>94388188
I think you have some valid complaints mechanically, things I can even agree with in matters of poorly statting things the typical game isn't "supposed" to run into. I think having those things fixed without a shitload of work homebrewing is a good idea. As a rule I think RPGs should try to have options to facilitate as many modes of play as they could reasonably have within the setting. I just don't agree with your desired outcome.

Which is fine, I'm always happy to agree to disagree on matters of taste.

>>94388352
Not very, though I think defining terms is very important. I view "gonzo" as something that is difficult to take seriously, or creates issues with suspension of disbelief. "Out there". You can have fun things without being gonzo. Not necessarily a statement of power level, though at a certain point power levels can become gonzo.

>>94388530
nta but wouldn't by your logic a traditional Werewolf game be MORE like V5 than real VtM? Where you have marginal benefits at best and a heavy narrative punishment for using your powers? If you only transform on the full moon, you're basically a kinfolk power-wise except when you're in a giga frenzy once a month. What do you really do with that? I don't like how WtA did it, but I think that change at will is required unless you want one of those gimmick games that's played for like 10 sessions tops.

>>94388661
I said dislike, not hate. Got guests over in less than an hour, I'll give you the breakdown later if the thread is still up. I've gotta get a move on.

>>94388701
>I just don't agree with your desired outcome.

To clarify my desired outcome is only for the highest levels of play. Millennia old vampires, legendary wizards, and literal gods. It’d be pretty embarrassing if you’re sword fighting a Maeljin Incarna and he’s something that dies to 50 cops or a single missile.

>>94388701
>you're basically a kinfolk power-wise except when you're in a giga frenzy once a month.
Not even that, you are a Gypsy with a shittier version of Protean.

>>94388029
That makes sense. I was guessing it had to be some legal issue.

How much influence should Garou have on the mortal world? A big theme of W:tA is the Garou being the losers of history, always living on the outside and in the margins of human society. They have to rely on their human relatives to act as go-betweens to carry out mundane, everyday tasks in the world of men. Except for three tribes; the Glass Walkers, the Shadow Lords, and the Silver Fangs. They have power, money, and influence in a way all of the other tribes are depicted as lacking. The Lords and Fangs are even said to be staunchly embedded in the two political parties of the USA. So how do you, as an ST, reconcile these disparities? How do you walk the line of the Garou being both outcasts and alphas?

>>94388928
Collectively vs individuals. Most Garou lack social status but a handful with the better social Gifts have influence. I have a Silver Fang in my game whose an ex-general.

>>94388653
>How out there do you make it?
Oh. Well in that case. We have a campaign set up right now set in Ukraine of the modern day. Our Vampires are using the cover of the war to snatch people for blood and dark rituals.

>>94388957
>We have a campaign set up right now set in Ukraine of the modern day. Our Vampires are using the cover of the war to snatch people for blood and dark rituals.

Shady shit going on in a warzone is pretty normal and plausible imo. Not an insult btw.

>>94388993
None taken. So far they have antagonized a group of soldiers and broke into their telegram channel, and are sending them photos of those they capture fully drained or enthralled. Good stuff.

>>94385335
It's funny, all of the OPP 'social justice' stuff like latinx in their books got edited to proper language/writing standards when Renegade reworked those books. Shows how unprofessional OPP's writing staff is, that they can't use basic writing standards for captialization or proper words or proper English word order with names.

>>94385581
Yep, they were THE Proud Warrior Race guy doing extreme stupid shit for The Greater Good, and they were first to fall to their Rage. Seems on-brand for them.

>>94381127
I like to design a semi-fake sandbox, where there are cities full of characters but the story hooks they provide all lead down pre-planned questlines. That way you can give your players some freedom in how to approach things, what factions they side with, etc, but don't have to completely improvise and make up everything on the spot. Think of it like a Bethesda game where there's a town full of NPCs, but talking to them about local rumors leads to the same quests.

Cool feeding restrictions for Ventrues?

>>94390288
femboys

>>94390288
people with OCD.

>>94390288
Communists.

>>94390288
Roleplayers

>>94390288
African-americans with clean criminal history, honest job and both parents.

>>94390288
Political extremists, your ventrue sponsors these groups just to have someone to feed from even if they have a disdain for the ideology itself.

>>94390288
ANyone over the age of seven.

>>94389605
>Fell to RAGE
>Not to stone cold sober pride

A human failing that a lot of humans would probably also fail to under the same circumstances. See your village get wiped out by disease? I bet those rats did it! Gurahl not going to help me resurrect someone I care about? Fuck the costs, I miss them! Lost someone to a wild predator? I'm going to kill the first Bastet I see!

It's so easy to fall into without Rage that humans eventually did it, too.

>>94390288
>Hard mode
Virgins
>Harder mode
Virgin females over the age of 18 in a major western metropolis
>Dante Must Die
People wearing a very specific fragrance, perhaps the one your mother used to like, whose body chemistry combined with said perfume creates a unique scent
>Heaven or Hell
Women with severe anorexia. 50-ish percent chance of draining your victims to death every time you feed (or kill them due to their low blood pressure)
>Hell and Hell
Crack babies

>>94390638
hey now, children might be grey area but feeding on newborns is way too extreme

>Look up WoD on youtube
>Almost everything is le heckin snarky loreslop reads
>A few guides on how to fill a basic bitch character sheet
>Zero rule explanation
Why is nobody interested in explaining WoD crunch?
I mean, it's a niche someone could exploit but it really makes me wonder what new Storytellers are meant to do, aside from filtering through 300+ pages of fluff in order to get to the rules.

>>94391326
The Count on YT is at least an honest description of lore that isn't, afaik, a template reading of the wiki, but I'm with you on the rules issue. I bought a copy of V5 the other day and the fucker's formatting is godawful, NObody's tried to break this down for retards and be THE WoD guy on youtube?

>>94391648
I'd honestly love to do that but I'm more interested in making a pseudo-animated VN-style replay of the MtA chronicle I'm about to start.

>>94385581
>Karim is that you?
Nah I would have left the brother tribes in the setting. But I grew up around the kind of people doing the kind of work a red talon would kill you for.

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>>94391689
An animatic? That sounds dope, getet on it man

>>94387421
It 100% started from the fact that werewolves started out as a kind of spell caster that could swap minds with a wolf like Granny Wetherwax. The Wolfman basically invented zombie werewolves.

>>94387491
I'd lean further into it: Werewolf the post-apocalypse. Crash all of the tribes, almost all of the cairns are gone, you're not trying to prevent shit.

>>94391715
Thanks!
First session is this saturday. I've already posted about it a bit but I'm hyped and so are my players.

>>94391326
Nobody plays WoD for the ruleset.

>>94391745
I like this idea a lot anon.
>Werewolf: The Post-Apocalypse
>Combination of the Apocalypse book scenarios half-happened, apocalypse was a near miss. This was 20 years ago.
>Most of it was in Umbra, but all of the schisms based on the A Tribe Falls scenarios happened in the material world. Body counts were high. Humanity is aware of the Gaoru.
>Gaoru nation partially ripped itself apart in the aftermath. Moon-Cults are now a legitimate rival to the Gaians.
>Several tribes restructured entirely. Didn't come away from any of it unscathed. At least some percentage of every tribe fell to Wyrm.
>Luna is pissed at the Gaoru collectively, moon-cults excepted. She'll provide 'the baseline minimum' (i.e. auspice), but she expects restitution for the fact she got hurt in the crossfire with all the infighting. Gaians by and large are refusing to accept responsibility because obviously.
>Metis still exist, no longer sterile. Still stigma against it because they still have mutations and their breed form is still fucking Crinos.
>With Humanity being aware: on the one hand, enough humans are environmentally conscious to listen, Pentex is largely reviled, and some Gaoru are happy help the Second Inquisition do its thing because fuck them leeches.
>On the other hand, given what delirium is, humanity half remembers the impergium, and the other shoe is about to drop on that.
>Gaoru helping SI founded their own tribe with some obscure rites. Split off the rest because they decided they could get more shit done that way. Might end bad for them. Pseudo-Cult of Fenris replacement as I like the Get too much to dick them over.
>Wyrm was never defeated, time was just added.
Campaign idea I was thinking about running was in Northern Australia, the few local cearns are completely silent and the PCs are sent in to work out why. The only Gaoru anyone can raise were the ones who don't really check into the cearns all that often.

>>94391904
Maybe, but they still want to play WoD and rarely change the ruleset anyway, so why not provide easily accessible resources for people who already binged the fluff and want to start actually playing?
Maybe that way some people would actually play Wraith or Mummy (lmao).

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In Mage: the Awakening, what are the Bene Ashmedai like? I don't have the Silver Ladder book, and the wiki isn't giving me much beyond that they're an off-shoot of the Clavicularius legacy of goetic mages. What are they like in play, and what distinguishes them from other goetic mages?

>>94391904
Wait, what? Why not? I'm currently in the middle of filing the serial numbers off of Chronicles so I can run a D&D game using a "modified" (hacked together) version of WoD with the moth-goth shit sand blasted off and a fresh coat of legally-distinct-from-Tolkein painted over top. What's wrong with the ruleset? Or, is "better than D&D" so low of a bar that it doesn't matter?

>>94392243
The nWoD ruleset is fine, as it's kept extremely simple and it's just got splats bolted on top. I don't know how it is since Chronicles, but the rules for filling out a character sheet were printed on the sheet itself to keep it as simple as possible.
oWoD is the one that has issues as the mechanics are far less modular and are more specific to each splat-line.

>>94390288
People whose bodies are under 20°C

>>94392198
>I don't have the Silver Ladder book
Links are in the OP

Gonna run a V20 game, but my player wants to use Thin-Blood Alchemy from V5. Any recommendations for adapting the thing?

>>94390288
i got a lot a mileage out of "people who hate me"
i mostly used it like this: to turn someone into my herd i needed to entrap someone (using a mix of backgrounds and dominate) in a way that made them totally dependent on me and my support while also leaving them aware of the fact and unable to escape at all which was very fun to roleplay

however as you can imagine just getting my herd to a sustainable amount did cost me 3 humanity

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>>94372499
My mages(an orphan with points in mind and entropy in order to bullshit his way in life,a templar that comes from the 12th century of France and who was a crusader with powers bestowed by god and all and a Hollow One with a biker gang who reads in the future) met a wounded werewolf,they asked him how they could help him,dude told them about a facility where his brother is contained,the players come to the conclusion that they should help him (without asking themselves,what the fuck can hurt a garou that way),the garou,after a long conversation,tell them to come help him freeing his brother trapped in the facility.
They accept and go through a portal in the umbra and arrive at a brewery in Serbia and blend into a group of tourists that came to visit it.
Once inside,they meet two dudes in suits,here to sign a contract with the manager of this place,the biker decides then to use his sphere of life to give them a mighty need of going pissing while the others blend in the crowd.
The plan was simple:knocking them out in the toilets where the guards of the place can't see him with the help of the garou,meeting the manager in their place and finding the place where the other garou is locked.
Except the manager was in the toilet at the same moment but only saw two dudes in suit knocked out and a dude besides them.
He then convinced her that he was the third person that came to sign a contract with her and she gives him a tour of the brewery while the others find the secret entrance in her office to rescue the garou's bro,then the biker and the manager enters,she presents a glass of alcohol and a contract and tells him to read it and to see on what they can agree inside,he tries to ask her questions about a npc from the Syndicate that they killed sessions ago,seeing that she knows him but doesn't say much because they were only business partners once,so he does the most logical thing,pulling out a glock on the stoic face of the pentex manager who may be a nephandus

>>94392318
The pdf of Tome of the Watchtowers (Magic the Awakening) is corrupt.

>>94392588
He knew he fucked up when while trying to see the best outcome of the situation with his time sphere,even though he succeeded in his roll,he only saw how she could make the bullets rust before they arrived to her,how she could make him rot on his chair or some other gruesome things that she could do to him.
In the end,the other ones knew something was up thanks to a great roll of the mind orphan,so they came back in the office fast enough to help and to contemplate how the biker fucked up when the bookcase the garou threw at the bitch just turned into dust after pushing her like 3 meters on the side,they then saw that she had a decay spirit bound to her.
And that's the second dumbest thing this group did in their campain.

>>94392318
Thank you

So... how common is Euthanatos "friendly fire"?
Like, how often do they decide "You know what? This fellow Euthanatos needs to be killed to continue moving the Wheel"?

>>94392642
very, euthanatos also have a serious corruption problem (both jhor and power abuse) so often it's also justified

and that's not even going into how they are the Tradition most prone to having members fall into being Nephandi

My hunter brings donuts while staking out a monsters lair.

>>94393242
My monster asks if he can have one too.

>>94393249
Is he alright with maplebars? That's all that's left that hasn't had dibs called on it

>>94393251
He takes what he can get at this point.

>>94393254
They're a little melty, and Bruce just got the last of the coffee, is that fine?

>>94393265
Yeah, sure. Thanks, see you guys in a week for the inevitable dramatic confrontation.

>>94393274
Tell the wife and kids we said hi

>>94393278
Of course. I'll tell yours too, while I'm at it. They'll be glad to have some news from the outside.

>>94392327
Just make him do a Thin-Blood with Thaumaturgy 3 (probably main path being Alchemy). Majority of thin-blood rituals are from old thaumaturgy anyway.

>>94391689
>making a pseudo-animated VN-style replay of the MtA chronicle I'm about to start.
That's literatly what the MtA Norfolk videos from Alfabusa are about.

>>94392284
>I don't know how it is since Chronicles
Chronicles is mostly the same, but tweaks how combat rolls work*, removes the multiplying XP costs for flat costs, adds a system where RP and taking negative effects, including turning an ordinary failure into a dramatic one, give you 1/5 XP called Beats, and really went hard on adding way more merits. There's also an extensive list of Tilts and Conditions, but they end up not being used much in real play most of the time.

My group has run a ton of different stuff with it.


*weapons add damage on top of successes instead of adding dice, which was an optional rule in Armory Reloaded

>>94392295
What would be the backstory for that? Did they embrace the guy in a freezer or something?
>>94392327
Just use the Thin Blood rules for revised. It would be better than actual Thaumaturgy because he would actually need to build a more coherent line of powers.

>>94388171
>iron bullets
Gun explodes in your hand, and then you end up in a changeling rape cave.

>>94393613
>weapons add damage on top of successes instead of adding dice, which was an optional rule in Armory Reloaded
This shit annoys me a bit because there's no way to get a glancing shot without automatically making someone using a heavy weapon much more dangerous than they should be.

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>>94393638
>then you end up in a changeling rape cave.

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>>94393638
... That actually sounds pretty plausible. On a very tangential note, should Cold Iron items retain their properties if they are enchanted by things other than the Fae?
I had this idea of a Horseshoe Relic that warded off Fairy magic but a guy who's a lot more versed in CtL kept bitching about how that shouldn't work. He also ruled that Ravaging deletes ephemeral entities so I'm taking his word with a lot of salt.

>>94393640
Nah, it works way better. In 1E using a weapon made it more likely to hit. In 2E, your att+skill roll is your accuracy, and the more devastating the weapon, the harder it hits. A shotgun's glancing hit is worse than a pistol's.

>>94393705
I'm mostly talking about it "on paper". It just sounds kind of weird when you say it out loud. I know it's just me being weird.

>>94388352
My games take place in 1995, for context.

Ilyes didn't die when Troile tried to diablerize him. His future self from 2005 yanked him into the future via Temporis 10...but he ended up in 1985, two decades too early. So that's Problem One.

Problem Two is that vampiric *potential* is measured by Generation, but vampiric *power* is measured by age, and specifically the skills, arts, resources, and experience they've developed and cultivated over that time. And Ilyes wasn't really all that old yet when he was yanked forward in time, and he originates from a time and place where there were just fewer resources around to learn things. And of course any power base he had in the Second City is long since turned to dust. As a result, despite being 3rd Generation, he's really not that much more powerful than a typical European elder. He certainly doesn't have Temporis 10 or anything like it yet. He's got 20 total years ahead of him to somehow develop Temporis 10 so that he can save himself from Troile in 2005, and ten of them have already passed and so far he's sitting on Temporis 5. So that's Problem Two.

But finally and perhaps most disconcertingly, Ilyes hasn't sired any childer other than Troile, ever. And his siring of her predates Caine's curse ("what do you mean Caine cursed us?!"). Ilyes doesn't have any kind of clan weakness [mechanically, he's basically Caitiff] and has no idea who the "True Brujah" that he supposedly sired are or where they came from. So that's Problem Three.

That should give you a pretty good insight into what my take on the WoD is like.

Help me understand Etherites.
Everything they're supposed to do should get Paradox knocking on their door with a big stick of fuck you.
How do you translate the average Son of Ether bullshit into coincidental magic?

>>94393873
I've never played Mage, but from what I know about Paradox, shouldn't the Sons of Ether have a pretty easy time avoiding Paradox? They're the retro-scientists, right? I feel like most people would actually have a pretty easy time accepting a lightning gun as just being a long-distance taser. And jet packs actually exist in real life.

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To whom it may concern, Austrian nationals will be on 7th December.
https://www.vekn.net/event-calendar/event/11731

>>94393895
I'm reading through some of the premade tools and even a pair of rocket skates is considered vulgar.

>>94393873
sadly mage is all over the place when it comes to etherites and paradox
sometimes they say etherite have a easier time avoiding paradox because sometimes a sleeper can look at it and go "okay that a scifi ray gun acting like a scifi ray gun" and sometimes like said here >>94393987 way more obvious gadet's are vulgar

>>94394016
So if there's no Sleepers around, an Etherite can get away with his giant robots and martian death rays? Or any mage for that matter?
That's what I don't get about Paradox.
Is Paradox triggered by reality itself? I.e. Consensus says gravity guns shouldn't exist so even if you're using it against a Technocrat or a supernatural entity you're fucked.
Or is it triggered by sleepers witnessing something that clashes with their understanding of reality? I.e. Your gravity gun triggers Paradox when using it in the presence of Sleepers, but if there's no witnesses and you're fighting Technocracy cyborgs or supernaturals you're free to use it.

>>94391326
Because almost everyone silently agreed WoD mechanics aren't that worthy on explaining since many dislike the complex ruleset and prefer staying on the basics.

>>94393939
Brazilian nationals for 2025 will be on Rio de Janeiro.

>>94393860
>That should give you a pretty good insight into what my take on the WoD is like.
This post is the least bullshit time travel plot in wod.
>>94393873
>How do you translate the average Son of Ether bullshit into coincidental magic?
Just use it to make relatively mundane shit work at their theoretical peak. For example, you take your air balloon and make go much further than normal by performing some basic maintenance or kill a ghost by using .45 because meme.

>>94394119
I would say I pity that city but that would be a huge lie.

>>94394076
Pretty sure most books leave it to ST's choice. The witness axis ranges from needing actual Sleepers see it (so if nobody's around, it's all coincidental), to considering a hypothetical Sleeper seeing it (so even without anyone around, it can still be vulgar if it's blatantly not real), to the Consensus itself being the hypothetical observer (so every spell is vulgar, since they all break reality).

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What would a Robocop like Deviant look like mechanically?

>>94393683
>should Cold Iron items retain their properties if they are enchanted by things other than the Fae?
No, as Cold Iron is defined by being not magical, so it would be just normal iron. Mind you, normal iron still fucks over the fae, but only deals lethal instead of aggravated.
Bypassing all wards, tokens, etc. doesn't make fighting them trivial, but changelings tend to have a rather mercenary attitude, so you might not have to kill them.

I agree on the ravaging part though, as it drains all emotional energy from the victim, so a spirit of hatred, for example, would just stop existing if his ability to hate/feel hate is removed. Also he is your ST, so he is correct by definition.

>>94394602
I understand the reasoning, I just find the end result underwhelming and wouldn't use it as an ST. On top of that is the fact that there are other alternatives for why iron fucks up the fae.

>>94394545
Something like Carapace, Superhuman Strength, Specialised Sense, Hidden Compartment, and Anomalous Biology with Frozen Heart, Conspicuous Appearance, and Lumbering.

Lorelet question. I know thin bloods can tolerate the sun, does that mean lower generation kindred are more damaged by sunlight because they have more of the curse?

>>94394704
Depends on edition and gameline.

>>94394704
no it's just a thing where th*nbloods (in v5 in previous editions they need a merit for even that) don't count as full vampires anymore

all other vampires (beside followers of set and in a single book also the lasombra) take the same amount of sunlight damage regardless of age, generation or anything like that, assuming no powers are used

>>94394076
Paradox is mostly triggered by sleepers witnessing magic, except when it isn't
i am sadly not kidding. you see there are level of vulgar there normal vulgar which only triggers when sleepers (and imbued) notice it and there is magic that is so vulagr it's vulgar even without witness basicly magic that is so against the laws of reality that it backlashes even when nobody is there to reinforce the "normal" stuff like time travel or healing a vampire: which to be honest seemed to me always as you know stuff the writters don't want you to do then anything else

but giant mechs are on normal vulgar as are spaceships and laser guns just like it is for a hermetic to throw fireballs or summon imps so you can use all that against cyborg clones without issue as long as your normy neighbour dave isn't there to see it if he is then suddently your mech collapses and your gun explodes

>>94394742
>>94394746
Kinda lame. It seems fitting as a thematic drawback to being an elder, to balance out all the cool shit they get.

>>94394885
Requiem does it like that. Sunlight damage is determined by a mix of blood potency and humanity. Humanity determines the severity of the damage sun deals, and blood potency determines how frequent the damage is applied. So even if an elder still has high humanity, they'll start melting real quick in the sun, and a low humanity elder is going to be turned to ash in a few rounds of direct sunlight.

On the other hand a low blood potency and decent to high humanity (6-10) vampire is highly resistant to sunlight, to the point of it taking hours of direct sunlight to destroy them.

>>94394824

Does the sleeper in question affect it at all?

like say Dave is American, so believes that the Jews are building space lasers, would he affect your mech in the same way as someone more incredulous?

>>94395038
only at mass like if it actually becomes the majority opinion that jews have space lasers then those enter the Consensus and aren't vulgar at all which is a large reason why mages want to influence the masses however people who become aware of the abnormal enough (people trained by mages, inqusition hunters, occultist, sorcerers and members of other splats with the exception of the imbued and so forth) at some point also stop counting as sleepers for the sake of paradox

so a etherite might actually teach people their "theories" and if the person is... out there enough they might even awaken and become mages or rather Scientists with a big S as the etherites sometimes like to call themselves

>>94395038
One kooky person surrounded by normal sleepers isn't going to affect consensus.
If you got a whole bunch of kooky people together in one place that's particularly conductive to believe jews build space lazers, however, the local consensus of that location adapts.
Fortune telling in mage doesn't work outside of the fortune tellers tent, might be a good way of illustrating it.

>>94394885
the thematic drawback if you wanted to have one was the thirst of ages/caine thing where elders who been awake for more than 500 years, did diablery or some other conditions i am to lazy to look up ended up only being able to drink vampire blood to the point that unlike what that did with blood potence not even killing a mortal would do anything for them

>>94388323
I've recently been thinking a lot about Nelli G captured by a Tzimisce and utterly giving up her feistiness and becoming his property/concubine, after he threatens to make her ugly if she refuses.

>>94395460
That's literally blood potency 6.

>>94395460
I'm not sure it's ever explicitly given a rule. Many books reference elders needing to drink vampire blood, but it's not actually a mechanical restriction, oddly enough.

>>94395817
Because WOD is wishi washi in terms of consistent rules for high level play to the point the books more or less expect 6+ dots to be almost entirely made by the individual table.

>>94391326
It's not worth the time or effort, as it's a simple enough system. Plus with the 'rules that are really house rules that people remembered from 20 years ago' issues that plague everything, or the 'I didn't bother to read what edition you're using and am now screaming at you for Doing It Wrong even though it's my fault I can't read' it makes it kind of pointless.

>>94395706
even blood potency 10 vampires in v5 get something, even if not a lot, if they drink humans dry while a vampire under the thirst of ages would get nothing out of that even if they would kill a entire city like that
>>94395817
it's given a list possible triggers in the dark age story teller companion

>Potential triggers for the Thirst of Caine include:
>Character is a Diablerist
> Sire is addicted to Cainite vitae
>Character’s Road rating is 3 or less
>Character follows the Roads of the Beast, Metamorphosis, or Blood
>Character is active for 500 or more years
>Character has a Derangement related to blood or feeding
>Character has created five or more childer
>Character has placed five or more Cainites under blood oath
>Character has a Nature other than Architect, Caregiver, Cavalier or Martyr.
there is also a optional system if you want to have more rules about it

>Storytellers who prefer a systematic approach should require players to make a Willpower roll every few centuries of game time. The difficulty of the roll is the number of “trigger conditions” the character possesses, with a minimum of 2 (one trigger equals a difficulty of 2, seven triggers results in a difficulty of 7). Success on the roll means that the character need not drink vampiric vitae (though she may choose to). Failure indicates the Cainite is wavering, experiencing a thirst for Cainite vitae and drinking it when the opportunity presents itself, but not yet required to do so. Such characters must roll again after a period determined by the Storyteller (perhaps a few years within the chronicle). If the roll fails again, the character must drink vampiric blood to survive. A botch at any point means the character can only draw nourishment from Cainite vitae.

and it's mentioned to be something the players of the transilvania chronicle will probably suffer under it because that story is meant to span 800 years