>>94618151
5E's legacy will be"6E's beta release".

>>94618151
>tq
The end of wotc's market dominance and the the beginning of their slow decline.

2024 is almost strictly better than 2014.

wanted to do a whip pally. str or dex?

>>94618280
>whip
Kill yourself, drownigger.

>>94618280
Oh wow, a dominatrix princess
How original Gerald

>>94618355
>>94618361
Please stop projecting your fetishes on me it's a belmont vampire hunter character

>>94618384
Then play Castlevania, nigger.
>>>/v/

>>94618398
make me nigger faggot kill yourself

>>94618406
Well if it’s a Belmont vampire hunter character, do you think he’s str or dex? We shouldn’t need to hold your hand when you’ve already got the inspiration for it

>>94618423
Don't help that lying BDSM freak.

>>94618280
First of all, play a Monster Hunter Ranger instead.

Secondly dex, it's just better than strength.

>>94618458
>Secondly dex, it's just better than strength.

thanks I was just weighing initiative/dex saves vs +1 AC and throwing axes

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Why is bard an entire class and not just a subclass of rogue?

>>94618528
>Why is bard not shit

I don't know bro

>>94618458
>Monster Hunter Ranger
Why play this over a Paladin with a Whip? The Paladin has Divine Smite and whips deal 1d4 damage...that's dagger damage and has very little to no feat support. Divine Smites at least help here for this. You can also run Strength here to use Plate Armor and those Throwing Axes too.

>>94614707
>There's no limit to the number of the same magic item you have created at once,
Read the rules before kneejerk reacting

>>94618151
>OP still has bad DL links for 2024
>OP didn't add the artificer UA link
>No thoughts, no competency, only horny

>>94618528
Wish granted: Druid is now a Cleric, and Ranger, Paladin, and Barbarian are now Fighters, and Sorcerer and Warlock are gone entirely only prep casters. We're playing 2e now.

>>94618458
>First of all, play a Monster Hunter Ranger instead.
Why would you recommend this under any circumstance, let alone this one?
>>94618474
don't forget better skills too

>>94618528
Mechanically it properly has a stronger niche than rogue, so if one really had to be a subclass of the other it'd be rogue. The actual classes that should be removed for being too close to other classes are sorcerer and ranger. This is your reminder that all the features that make a ranger worth playing are features directly taken from other classes. It is literally a multiclass LARPing as a full class.

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The fun thing about DnD is that it doesn't have to be combat-focused, you can run a campaign where you just open an LGBT-friendly coffee shop.

>>94618634
>just the total
Read the post before replying.

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>>94618729
This! Assuming the group is down for a little R&R it can be a fun pass time to make some gold, connections, and allies. One of my players in my last campaign opened up a coffee shop in the party's town and made that stuff go global & planar as the party traveled the planet and the planes. He basically started up fantasy Starbucks and its wildly popular- he's got loads of people who swear themselves to this coffee. He asked one of his town's spies and information brokers to go out and
>"Gather the most creative coffee enthusiasts and offer them a job they cannot refuse + high pay and lodging."
And with that he got some incredible folks to make all types of unique blends and pastries and buildings. Dude made a coffee empire.
The Comfy Cartel for Coffee is now a thing in my universe(s) and we wouldn't have it any other way.

>best "dual wield" barb is just going beast

how do I flavor the furfaggotry out of this

>>94618811
Yes. In total, each of your items must be from a different one of your plans.

>>94618712
Mechanics are downstream from flavor, and bards are a flavor of rogue.

>>94618861
Be a scalie instead.

>There's a thread up on dndnext about wanting new classes after 10 years
>Half the thread is whining about how they don't want new classes, they don't need them, subclasses work just fine
Jesus Christ, did all the wotc non-bootlickers leave during the OGL shit? Or was it always like that?
New classes is the most basic bitch request.
That place is a pit of no joy.

>>94619193
yeah, pretty much

>>94619193
>give psionic, warlord, and gish class please

>>94618712
Don't forget barbarian literally being "fighter but angry"

>>94619150
Wrong. All that's stated is that when creating items, you must create them from different plans.

For example if you have three available magic item slots, you can create two different ones. Then later during a different creation period, you can just use one of those two plans again to have two of the same item.
>Creating an Item. When you finish a Long Rest, you can create one or two different magic items if you have Tinker’s Tools in hand. Each item is based on one of the plans you know for this feature.
Nobody in their right mind would take this to mean you can't use the same plan over two different long rests. On top of the fact that this is only referring to item creation and not any sort of limits on what types of items you can have at one time, it doesn't even say "Each item is based on a different plan you know for this feature".

Oh hey look, the stupid fucking retard is still here

>>94618662
Druid should really be a half-caster or even non-caster outside of subclasses, and instead lean heavily into shapeshifting. It should be the Rogue/Priest option, only instead of getting s ton of skills directly, it uses shapeshifting to acquire skills.

>>94619299
Two paragraphs later, numbnuts:
>Each item you create must be based on a different plan you know.

>>94619382
>still talking about item creation and not item possession

>>94619395
Yeah, because it’s an item creation feature. What it does NOT say is
>Each item you create at the same time must be based on a different plan you know.
Nor does it say
>Each item you create after a given rest must be based on a different plan you know.
It puts a limit on all the items you create, in total.

>>94619422
>Each item you create after a given rest must be based on a different plan you know.

>When you finish a Long Rest, you can create one or two different magic items if you have Tinker’s Tools in hand. Each item is based on one of the plans you know for this feature.
>When you reach certain Artificer levels specified in the Magic Items column of the Artificer Features table, the number of magic items you can create at the end of a Long Rest increases. Each item you create must be based on a different plan you know

In both cases, the context is when you create items at the end of a long rest.

>>94619479
And when you create items, they must be of different plans

>>94619479
>If you try to exceed your maximum number of magic items for this feature, the oldest item vanishes, and then the new item appears.
So, if the preceding paragraphs refer ONLY and exclusively to the items you create at the end of a long rest, where does this maximum come from? Basic reading comprehension. The "items you create" are a single pool, not discrete ones.

>>94619535
>>94619536
anons, don't bother, his reasoning is along the lines of "nothing in the book explicitly states that champion fighter can't cast finger if death at will, therefore every champion fighter can cast finger of death at will"

>>94619535
Yeah, that's right.

>>94619536
>The "items you create" are a single pool, not discrete ones.
In both cases the language is clearly referring to the items you create at the end of a long rest. The line
>If you try to exceed your maximum number of magic items for this feature, the oldest item vanishes, and then the new item appears.
is a seperate description referring to your maximum existing number of magic items. We know the latter line is not referring to the process of creating a magic item at the end of a long rest, because nowhere is it stated that the number of items you can create at the same time increases along with the table by level.

As in, if you're a level 10 Artificer and can have four magic items active at once, you can still only create up to two new items (replacing your two oldest) at once per long rest.

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>>94616155
>What bonkers stats.
her stats aren't that weird. the issue is the game uses standard array as a default for all the characters and at that point in development tasha's hadn't come out yet so they used default tiefling racial bonuses from the PHB. barbarians are unironically the class that can deal with having a lowish main attack stat the best (I'd assume clerics and druids can also deal with it pretty well because clerics have a lot of no save buffs like bless and half on a save attacks like spirit guardians and druids have wildshape) due to reckless attack being a feature. Karlach's stats specifically probably lead to larian switching to tasha's +2/+1, the adoption of nonPHB subraces and/or the wide availability of hill giant potions in the game.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/107606626
One of the things that is still retarded though is that some of the default stats like shadowheart's use the +1 to make a 12 a 13, which means you lose a stat point, plus in shadowheart's case putting points into both str and dex doesn't make sense for a cleric since both are tertiary stats and you generally chose based on the armor but I guess they wanted her to be able to use a mace and wear medium armor since trickery cleric is the weirdo domain that has both divine strike and no heavy armor proficiency. other cleric don't have this problem. the hireling cleric (for some reason both selune clerics in the game are light domain even though that isn't a selune domain) has 11, 14, 13, 8, 17, 12. So still the +1 in str for some moronic reason but the str/dex reflects that light, knowledge and trickery clerics dump str and have 14 dex and other clerics want 13 or 15 str.

Hey guys, new DM here.
My party is saying that my last encounter was unfair (4 level 6 players against a Solar, which should be a fight 3 levels below them). Am I doing something wrong here? I feel like they just played poorly because their total level is 3 above the Solar so they should have wiped the floor with him.

>>94619686
lmao

Help me /tg/, I need clarification on Blood Hunter. For their Brand of Castigation, when they say "each time the branded creature deals damage to you or a creature you can see within 5 feet of you, the branded creature takes psychic damage equal to your Hemocraft modifier" does this mean if it attacks 5 people at once, and I have INT modifier of +5, does the creature suffer 25 psychic damage?

>>94619686
I feel like this is bait, but if it's not CR refers to what a player player party should be fighting.

>>94619723
four player party*

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>>94619686
>21 AC
>250 or so fucking HP
>+15 to hit and their average ass damage on melee is 4d6+8+6d8, so minimum range of 4+8+6 (18) and max is 24+8+48 (80) ignoring crits and shit
>So again, damage range of 18-80, twice, almost guaranteed to hit
>A barbarian would at this level with like 10 con have 12 + 7*5, 42, but lets assume like 16 con so its 12+3 10*5 so 65
>Even raging, most of the solar damage is radiant
>It can do two of these attacks

Do you like have brain damage or something a solar is a cr 21. Its as bad as a Lich.

>>94619723
>>94619740
What's CR?

>>94619773
levels, you threw a lv 21 at a lv 3 party

>>94619773
Something you should've read about in the DMG. Go do so now.

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>>94619793
>>94619804
What's the DMG?

>>94618151
where the drow boys at

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>>94619804
In fairness it's fairly poorly defined in the DMG, and somehow much clearer in the Monster Manual. And since people often just pull shit off of websites now, people miss it.

That being said,

>>94619740
>CR 21

Lol. Lmao. Christ almighty on a stick I hope this is a joke.

>>94619804
Not him but I'd love to read the DMG if the OP could fix their fucking links.

>>94618662
2E with cleaner tactical combat? Yeah, I'd fuck with that.

>>94619943
Yeah, you should probably do that for the next OP

>>94618847
>subverting lazy bait with a genuine quality reply
Outstanding work.

>>94619955
Not 3.5?
I have never heard anybody say they missed 2e, i dont even know what it did

>>94619701
I'd say no, it's only dealing damage once. Multiattack or Scorching Ray or Eldritch Blast? 5 per hit that deals damage.

>>94619577
>is a seperate description referring to your maximum existing number of magic items.
And where is that defined?
>because nowhere is it stated that the number of items you can create at the same time increases along with the table by level.
You actually just can't read.
>When you reach certain Artificer levels specified in the Magic Items column of the Artificer Features table, the number of magic items you can create at the end of a Long Rest increases.

>>94620204
2e was basically 3.0 but martials sucked worse and monsters were weaker.
Also there were more splatbooks and they were lower quality, if you can believe it.

No one uses the PHB backgrounds right?

+2, +1 choose Origin Feat.

Origin Feat get +1 to stat when taken level 4+

>>94620403
I got to 20 CHR with a homebrew class and race thanks to Origin Feat. They're busted

>>94620415
at lv 1*

>>94620403
i don't see any reason not to use the 2024 backgrounds

>>94620415
>CHR
>homebrew class
nobody gives a shit

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heavy and versatile weapons should have the same 13/15 str requirement heavy armor has. I think the current rules do have a 13 str requirement for heavy weapons
glaives and halberds need 13 str like the current rules. great axes and mauls need 15 str
a spear or a long sword needs 13 str to use one handed a quarter staff, war hammer or battle ax needs 2 hands.
>muh sword and board
hand axes, clubs and light hammers exist
>muh monks and muh wizards
monks explicitly can 2 hand quarter staff attack followed by a bonus unarmed strike
https://www.sageadvice.eu/monk-with-two-hands-quarterstaff-and-unarmed-strike/
I guess that 8 str wizard is just fucked out of his -1 attack 1d6 - 1 action quarter staff attack if he cast an S spell that doesn't have an M component as a bonus action that turn, which is just expeditious retreat, arcane vigor and magic weapon

>>94620475
isnt that already resolved by the fact that the majority of the weapons you mentioned aren't finesse which would incentivise increasing str already?

>>94620403
>Origin Feat get +1 to stat when taken level 4+
????

>>94620387
>2e was basically 3.0 but martials sucked worse
Fuck are you smoking? 2e didn't penalize martials for wanting to move and attack in the same turn, or punish them for getting extra attacks as they leveled, or make nearly every nonweapon proficiency incredibly difficult to take. Hell, in 2e, you still got an army baked into your default progression.

>>94620569
he's playing a homebrew class, does his retardation suprise you?

>>94619846
>it's fairly poorly defined in the DMG
It's defined enough that nobody would assume to just add the levels of the fucking PCs together, why do you think CR stops at 30.

>>94620701
>why do you think CR stops at 30.
because nobody plays above level 10

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>tfw removed from a game before it started, just after making a character, because someone else ended up coming back to the country and wanted to join

>>94621011
That would still result in the system breaking down for a party of 4 at level 8 if CR was meant to be based on the combined levels of the party.
Pure retardation no matter how you slice it

>>94621146
true, nobody plays above level 7

>>94621146
Party of three is ideal though

>>94620403
>No one uses the PHB backgrounds right?
you just pick one and rewrite the narrative part. the book explicitly says to do this, though it is gay it limits what class/background combos you can take
>Origin Feat get +1 to stat when taken level 4+
what?
>>94620544
I just don't like the versatile mechanic for being unrealistic with certain weapons and want it justified by characters needing super human strength

i wanna give an item that lets player cast "speak with inanimate object"
what should the item be

>>94620387
You are a liar and a knave. Your words belittle how much you allow your opinions to be dictated to you by Redditers and OSRfags who hold tightly to the tomes Gygaxian purple prose as if they were complete games.

>>94620204
2E strikes a nice balance between class-based determinism and modern flexibility. Kits did what subclasses and multiclassing do without turning level advancement into a resource point to spend on superpowers. Mages were limited in their spell usage in meaningful ways, but the higher end spells felt even more powerful due to it being in the era before WotC demanded the books have a 3rd-grade reading level. Ability scores mattered beyond the flat bonus, and different scores had different scaling.

Strawpoll for if you play 2024 or not. I’m surprised at the lack of interest in the new rules but it’s early days.

https://strawpoll.com/eNg6vzVkwgA

>>94620582
2e martials didn't have magic items, didn't do damage, didn't fly, didn't have saves, couldn't do anything with strength, etc.
>2e didn't penalize martials for wanting to move and attack in the same turn
3e doesn't either, infact, it penalizes the opposite.

>>94621504
What the fuck are you even trying to say?
>Your words belittle how much you allow your opinions to be dictated to you by Redditers and OSRfags
???
My only experience with 2e is playing it. I have no experience whatsoever of it's online discourse.
>Mages were limited in their spell usage in meaningful ways
lmao
lol
lmao
2e casting was basically 3e casting but with no xp costs ever

>>94621599
You were not allowed to pick your spells at level up, they must be transcribed.
You could not move and cast the same turn.
There was no such thing as a concentration check.
>My only experience with 2e is playing it. I have no experience whatsoever of it's online discourse.
Your lack of understanding of how Fighters worked again proves that you're a liar.

>>94619166
Nice principle, but it's disproven by the current state of both classes. Mechanically, rogues are closer to an iteration of bard than the reverse.

Setting up a new campaign to start after the new year. Party is Armorer Artificer (me), Lunar Sorcerer. Drunken Master Monk, and Redemption Paladin.

How fucked are we? And what are some cool things I should be on the lookout for? Never player an Artificer before so all I have to go off of is stuff I've looked up.

>>94621636
>You were not allowed to pick your spells at level up, they must be transcribed.
I don't think that's true, but it also doesn't matter?
>You could not move and cast the same turn.
And?
>There was no such thing as a concentration check.
And?

>Your lack of understanding of how Fighters worked again
I demonstrated that I do know how fighters work. You very clearly have no fucking idea how 3e (or 2e) actually played.

>>94621585
Every updated class is just straight up better. The races -> species shit is dumb, but you can just assign your stats as usual if you want. Origin feats are good, reprinted backgrounds suck though.

In many ways it's soulless but I'll take any of the new classes any time.

>>94621784
First of all please don't play an Armorer. On a first pass it sounds cool, but then you realize that it's just Iron Man cosplay.

>>94621826
That's why I picked it though.

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>>94619193
Most of the 5e players who genuinely like mechanics, rules and combat up and left 5e for other games, the OGL thing supercharging it.

A lot of people that stuck with 5e are those who don't actually read the rules, and will celebrate having multiple sessions in a row where it's just solely role-play. When you suggest rules for more combat, they get really confused at the prospect that there's anyone that wants that, because they're not super aware of the other sides of the hobby. These are the motherfuckers that make threads asking "Does anyone even like combat?"
Cunt, YOU don't like combat, and your DM probably runs ass combat too.

>>94623081
>celebrate solely role-play
fuck i hate this
holy fuck i hate this
80% of the book is combat rules, combat features, combat this, combat that and these motherfuckers go "combat sucks :( I like roleplay better :("
i have went 4 sessions in 2 different games without a fucking encounter
my balls are blue

ITS SUPPOSED TO BE A GAME OF HEROES VENTURING INTO THE DEPTHS AND HEIGHTS OF THE WORLD KILLING SHIT
WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING SHIT
REEEEEE

ill be real i like the combat of dnd 5 and 5+ because its easy to digest and runs smoothly if everyone has a brain, but almost every DM is averse to it
in all my years I'm the only fucking DM in the group who ran an actual dungeon...
ITS DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS WHERE ARE MY FUCKING DUNGEONS I HAVENT SEEN A LOCKED DOOR OR A TRAP LIKE HOLY SHIT

>le be the change you want to le see in le world :DDDD
stick the roleplay faggots into VTM or some shit and keep the combat faggots in my west marches game
swear to god

>>94621599
>2e martials didn't have magic items
>Didn't do damage
>Didn't have saves
>Couldn't do anything with strength
It's astonishing how wrong you can be from your first line alone. The DMG alone is filled with magical items that are perfectly usable by non-casters, weapon proficiency and magic items boost damage to hilarious levels, flying magic items and mounts are available to martials, and martial saves vs. death, petrification, and breath are nigh universally improved over casters, with saves vs. wands and spells still being competitive. Meanwhile in your precious 3rd Edition, a full attack is a full-round action that reduces movement to a 5-foot step, unless you happened to pick a variant class or some ridiculous feat chain to get the Pounce trait. Not to mention, iterative attacks are always gained at a -5 penalty, making each one you get increasingly useless.

>>94623210
>The DMG alone is filled with magical items that are perfectly usable by non-casters
But which you never get, yes.
>unless you happened to pick a variant class or some ridiculous feat chain to get the Pounce trait
You can get pounce from using a spell on an item once in your life lol.
Everyone who wanted to have pounce had pounce. Charges were the dominant form of combat in 3e.
>unless you happened to pick a variant class
>happened to
>happened
You know you can pick your class, right?

You can stop embarassing yourself now lol.

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>>94623144
If I'm gonna join a game with strangers, I will usually avoid campaigns that are homebrewed unless they've specified that it'll have a decent amount of combat.
Typically stick to prewritten modules.
No hate on those who love to perma-roleplay, but if I don't get at least a solid encounter per session I get irritable.
I need it all, combat, roleplay, and sometimes exploration and puzzles.

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>>94621190
>current character is level 7

>>94621644
Wotc making retarded design decisions does not invalidate good principal.

>>94623380
Its posters like you that have made me the based DM i am today.
I love the relief i see in the eyes of my players as I wow them time and again by simply not being a faggot.

Thanks /5eg/.

>>94623380
>Prewritten modules
>decent combat

>>94623144
Is this really a thing? Jesus what the fuck? My new DM has no dungeons but we get a good combat at least every other session.

When I ran a game it was 75% dungeon crawls

>>94623426
Have you fuckin seen the kind of combat roleplay heavy DMs run?
Basically white rooms, enemies run directly at the players and swing. Maybe if you're lucky they might taunt or swing on a fuckin chandelier (Will do nothing mechanically but it makes it seem more swashbuckly)

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Human, male, fighter

>>94623450
>Have you fuckin seen the kind of combat roleplay heavy DMs run?
No. I probably never will, either.

This in no way addresses the fact that any party that doesn't go through wotc modules like a knife through hot butter is composed of literal retards that should be facing medical incarceration for their own safety, and your failure to realize that that was my point and I was not making a comment on whatever fruity shit you're getting up to with your "g"f leads me to believe that you might also be a member of that demographic.

>>94621784
If you're not playing a gnome so you can be a midget running around thunder punching people in the cock, then shame on you. Old artificer or UA.5 artificer?

My favorite classes are life cleric, lore bard, divination wizard, and devotion paladin. I haven't bought the new phb yet. Did I make it through okay in terms of nerfs/buffs/changes? Give it to me straight doc

>>94623479
You forgot straight and white. 0/10 see me after class. Fag

>>94623380
there are systems made for perma-roleplay and DnD is not it
i usually stuck my new players with a combat free session for "build-up" to get them interested and prepared for a session that was a dungeon crawl
it worked wonders

>>94623436
new DMs are afraid of TPK like the devil fears water
or simply they dont know how nor care to learn how to prepare a dungeon or a few encounters to actually, you know, use the fucking features you have on your sheet
i have had 2 turns of combat over three sessions of a fucking champion fighter

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Can i get some help naming the 14th level feature on this monster-origin sorcerer?
If anyone has any flavor text ideas i could use those too

>>94623631
Locus of Control, Primordial Will, Natures Bulwark, Atavistic Strength, Gift of Tzilopt, Mentis Imperium.

>players have "too good to use" syndrome
>watch as they go down every combat with magic items full of charges and full spell slots
Three of them are DMs

>>94623666
Shit Satan you're good at this.
Im gonna go with "Atavistic Will" for now, never even looked that word up before now, thanks.
>gift of zoloft
Kek

I've been reading people ITT talking about not going much further beyond level 10, is it worth having level 20 for the players in mind when DMing a campaign? Or should I wrap it up between 10-14? Can 3-4 lvl 10-14 players deal with a CR 20+ enemy?

>>94623691
Anytime lad, glad to help.

>>94623706
Yes, and you can safely ignore those posters.
They're like people that give you relationship advice with nothing but a history of failure. They have theories on what a successful table looks like, little realizing that they are inexperienced retards.

>>94623706
Nobody plays past level 7, despite what nogames like >>94623742 try to meme. CR20 is an appropriate encounter for 4 level 5s, and unless they make some serious mistakes it will be a cake walk without a bunch of minions. Remember, an equal level of CR enemies per PC.

>>94623631
The biggest problem with this subclass is the fact you haven't specified a (guideline) CR range for this monstrosity. Anything from a Xvart to a Tarrasque is not a good range, and there's no potential to replace your monstrosity with a better one at higher levels.

>>94623706
You can DO a level 15-20 campaign if you want, but fucking hell, going from 1-20 would be fucking endless.

>fighting an ancient dragon without extra attack or even 3rd level spells

>>94623405
Not WotC's fault your argument doesn't work in practice

>>94623706
Groups on average do not go much further than 20, that doesn't mean you can't make YOUR campaign go past 20. The average height is 5'9, that doesn't make it impossible to be 6'0

>>94623706
>is it worth having level 20 for the players in mind when DMing a campaign?
I generally don’t like to have a specific target level in mind when DMing. The campaign will end when it draws to a natural close, whether they wrap everything up by level eight or if their adventures keep building on themselves and they end up in the high teens.

If you decide in advance when the campaign is going to end, that usually means you’ve decided what that ending will be and how the players will solve their conflicts. DMing is about presenting problems, not coming up with the solutions for them.

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>>94623794
>Going from 1-20 would be fucking endless
This depends on how long you want your games to run and how much your group accomplishes each session.

>>94618272
2024 is inferior to 2014 in every single way, literally like some one read 2014 and said, "How do I ruin this?"

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>>94624324
2014 for comparison.

>>94623794
I agree with your assessment regarding an inability to change the monstrosity later, but not the CR limitation. I thought about it a long time, and decided that limiting the CR was unnecessary after including the "work with your DM" bit.

As for changing your monstrous form at later levels, it felt kind of cheap. Maybe I should include it as an optional Feat?

>>94624383
Nope, there should maximum and minimum suggestions for tiers of play, or you could use an evolving statblock. Saying 'just figure it out lol' is not the answer to a fundamental question which determines the power of this subclass. Including a section about legendary actions and resistances means you expect stat blocks that include them to be an option. But this is a level 6 feature. Becoming some CR15 god at level 6 and rampaging against the party is a BIG problem. Becoming a rust monster and being useless is also a problem.

>>94624442
That assumes bad players or a bad DM. I have more faith in people, generally.

>>94623742
What would be your theory on a succesful table? I asked the earlier question because I've been past level 7 as a player (starting campaigns at around lv 1-3) but always attributted that to reasons outside the table (schedule, lack of interest from me or the DM). I'm DMing for a very promising group in terms of schedule and interest and one of the players talks about his desire to reach 20, but I worry it might happen going purely through the statistics.
>>94623786
Your CR to player theory is weird to me, I want the final boss of the campaign to be an amalgamation (CR 23), 4 5th level player will have on average 38hp and the amalgamation can deal 35dmg with a single attack that has DC 20 intelligence save and incapacitates the target
>>94623794
Yeah I also believe it can take too long, but if possible to complete in a year I'm happy, so there's time
>>94624156
I understand it's just that I don't wanna risk it being another blunder
>>94624173
That makes sense, thanks for the advice

>>94621455
A penny whistle reminiscent of the one the conductor in Thomas the Tank Engine uses.

>>94624496
Look dude, moon druid is capped at 1/3 druid level but as written I could turn into a kraken (once per day) at level 6 and level a city. Even a drider, which most would consider an acceptable power fantasy is 3x as powerful as the wildshape available at that level.

Have you even curated the list of monstrosities which know a language? Maybe you don't want to do the work but don't share it if you haven't even put the slightest bit of effort in. Better yet, since these subclasses are inevitably just written for the creator, tell me what monster you want to be and I'll tell you whether I think it's cool.

>>94624587
>What would be your theory on a successful table?
A successful table comes from people that don't need the game to want to spend time together. One of my tables (I'm at two) is like this. Even if we don't play D&D, we might play a different board game, or go to one-another's Christmas party.

There's no way to force that kind of relationship, but you can be the person at your table that catalyzes it. Ask people to hang outside of D&D. Even if they decline, invite them over and over. Too many people gonna miss session? Ask the remaining people if they'd be cool with you running a one shot, or maybe going out for a beer.
A good table is a committed table, commitment comes from people with more than a single thread holding them together.

>>94624622
I don't understand why you insist on ignoring the "work with your DM" part.
If he allows a Kraken then it will be because it's a high level game where that makes sense. Why limit from a distance something which the local player group will better be able to determine?

>>94624652
Yeah bro the table I'm in is exactly like that, there's always a weekly meetup even if it isn't strictly for a D&D session or not everyone can come. Things will workout in the end I'm just overthinking about something that gets me excited (DMing)

>>94624674
Refer to the following:
>Saying 'just figure it out lol' is not the answer to a fundamental question which determines the power of this subclass
>since these subclasses are inevitably just written for the creator, tell me what monster you want to be and I'll tell you whether I think it's cool
You've written on a feature so vague as to make it totally impossible to gauge how broken it is. If you just wanted to have a cool werewolf subclass you should have done it.

>>94624383
>work with your DM
Are (You) writing the subclass or is my DM? Could you imagine the shit show if wildshape just said "work with your DM to figure out how this works"?
>>94624496
What about new players or DMs? Or ones that just don't understand the game much? Especially since, as the other anon points out, you implicitly suggest higher tier monsters are on the table.
>>94624383
>changing your monstrous form at later levels, it felt kind of cheap. Maybe I should include it as an optional Feat?
Anon... No way are you suggesting that someone picks up a creature that's balanced at level 6 and with ZERO adjustments it remains balanced at level 20. That's utterly ridiculous. A feat tax to ensure your subclass isn't obsolete after a few levels is outright insulting to the player.

>>94620701
Find me the page or exact index entry pointing to a clear explanation of how CR works in the DMG. You'll be shocked if you look. It's easier to use the XP calculation as explained. Of course this is the 2014 DMG, no clue if they did it better in 5.24 but I ain't read it or used it yet.

>>94624622
>Maybe you don't want to do the work but don't share it if you haven't even put the slightest bit of effort in.
It's Somot. He doesn't want to put effort in, and he certainly doesn't want to think about these being used in actual games. He just wants to jerk off and be praised and is sad that his Reddit community isn't active any more.

>>94624587
It’s actually one of the reasons that I prefer the level cap to be higher than I hit in the average campaign—I want the room for my games to grow beyond that average, for exceptional campaigns to be capable of exceeding that baseline. I don’t necessarily use those higher levels every time, but a lower cap would be a much more substantial limitation.

>>94623081
Aren't West Marches games glorified RP chatrooms?

>>94624352
How? Name one class that is actually worse?

Barbarian is like night and day.

>>94625287
Warlock's a fucking disaster now.

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>>94618151
I WANT A DROW FOOTJOB SO MUHC

>>94624825
>Find me the page or exact index entry pointing to a clear explanation of how CR works in the DMG.
I don't need to, because the page where it explains how to budget an encounter should suffice if you actually spent any time at all searching for how to make an encounter. Trying to make an encounter exclusively by CR is your own fault that the DMG doesn't describe at all as the approach. The XP calculation "as explained" is enough to know how fucking wrong the OP's attempt is.
DMG14 starts with the XP budget for an encounter, based on the PC's level, roughly the amount of XP needed to give them a variable challenge at any level. For level 6, each PC needs at least 300 XP to be an Easy encounter up to 1,400 each to be a deadly one.
But let's look at DMG24, oh wait, it's incredibly similar to DMG14 but with the Easy encounter part trimmed off. DMG24 p114 says determine the difficulty of your encounter and then multiple the XP budget for that difficulty at your PC's level to get your encounter budget. Four level 6 PCs makes a budget of 2,400XP for a low encounter to 5,600 for a high difficulty encounter. Still a far cry from the 33,000 for a solar.
So, the OP knows what the CR value is at least (since they said the encounter was '3 levels below them'), they know it's CR 21 and the following post of "what's CR" is unaffiliated with OP. There is no description in any book that says "add your players' levels to get the CR of an appropriate encounter." They're either retarded, or a troll, and in either case, it's entirely unto themselves, not any fault on the part of the DMG this time.

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>>94624720
>>94624806
Alright I concede, clearly I'm outvoted.
How about picrel as a compromise?
>proficiency bonus and hp scales with player
>feat to change form later

>>94625334
How? It's really good, pacts being moved to Invocations opened a lot of shit up with swapping them around, Archfey and GOOlock are both great as are Fiend and Celestial.

Is the "you don't know your patron to start" weird? Yes. Does all subclasses being moved to 3 suck for multiclassing? Yes. But Warlock is still the best multiclass in the game. Hell PotB being on an Invocation now means any class can attack with Charisma just by picking up Eldritch Adept.

because 5e combat is fucking simplistic and ass
>i attack
> i move and attack
> i cast spell and move

if i wanted to fight shit i would play a vidya game
if I put 5 people together for 4hours i would much rather have some tough decision dilemma or mystery to solve about siding with the law or the smuggler guild or sacrificing the village to avoid the demon invasion or keep the spirit trapped in agony so the town isnt destroyed or something. THAT is fun and interesting. Not casting fireball and spirit guardians for the 9000th time
>have you tried not playing dnd
have YOU tried not playing the most simplistic combat of all time?

>>94625452
>t. Champion

>>94625452
>4hours
Okay, but what about the other half of the session?

>>94625418
You are still fucking atrocious at writing features. You don't assume good faith in writing rules, you make them clear enough to not have obvious abuse without clogging its text with extra minutiae scaffolding.
>I'm outvoted so what if I don't actually incorporate your advice and instead just make it slightly weaker instead of actually, that's what conceding means right?
>see?? now when the level 6 sorcerer transforms into a kraken, they'll only have 105 HP, 18AC, and a +13 to hit on three tentacle attacks that deal 20 damage each. but it also takes 23 damage a turn!! so it'll last at least 5 turns minus whatever the triggering damage is!!
If that sounds reasonable to you, stick to playing games, not running them.

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>>94625452
Tell me the vidya I can sit down and chill with 5 friends while they manage to time travel to the past in the middle of an warzone, learn the secrets of a forgotten technology then come back to the present, using the reawakened colossal golem to aid in killing an horrible disfigurement of reality mass of alien flesh spawned from the lust and greed of the fallen nations, all with an average of 4 combat encounters each session

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Are goliaths cool now?

>>94625490
Not sure whats got you so upset, do people usually hand over complete creative control when they acknowledge a flaw in something that's a wok in progress?

If you think there's an issue i appreciate your input, but its an iterative process to change something with conflicting visions.

>>94625446
>Charisma just by picking up Eldritch Adept.
This is not a good design change, anon. This is worse.

>>94625653
Why?

>>94625568
Man, that top one would have been so much better.

>>94625673
Because mental stat to attack is already excessively prevalent for what should be a rare exception to the rule, and was one of the most complained about things in terms of multiclassing balance.

What the fuck is the design thought process that leads to
>Wow people sure are complaining about easy access to this feature through multiclassing
>Let's make it even easier to access for even more classes!!! Also let's depower multiclassing!
>There, by making the issue people had with a multiclass more prevalent they no longer need to multiclass
Pure idiocy. Casters REALLY needed more SADness and additional martial options, didn't they? Stronger doesn't not mean better designed if that thing didn't need strength.

>>94625737
If a caster wants to melee gish they should be able to use their main stat to do so. That's a fair tradeoff for getting them in melee range rather than standing 60 yards away from the nearest enemy. Especially for Sorcerers who otherwise have no in-class melee features unlike Wizards or even Bards.

>>94625469
I sure as fuck don't want to spend 2 hours on some of the most dogshit RPG combat on the market.

>>94625803
No, it is not. It does not make sense to be able to use their mental stats for melee combat. They should be able to use those stats to cast some buffs on themselves, but allowing them to just use it all the time with ease is awful for balance and flavor.

>>94625568
Always have been. That new art is pretty bad though. It's like they started sketching it and then never finished.

>>94625838
I just don't see the issue. They're a spellsword attacking with magical enhancement. Do you also think the Headband of Intellect or a Belt of Giant Strength is awful for balance or flavor because they can make a martial smarter than a Wizard or a caster stronger than a martial, an even greater stat disparity than being able to add +4 to your attack rolls?

>>94625971
Not all classes should be able to do all the same things without some sort of trade off.

>>94626018
The tradeoff it using a level or spending a feat to get there.

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>>94625390
Listen, nothing you said was necessarily wrong, and realizing the XP budgeting was more important was a boon. It's just funny because every fucking block has the CR listed and that's held as the reference point when it really, really isn't, and isn't explained in the DMG at all. Nothing even as simple as the paragraph on page 9 of the MM is even in the DMG.

OP's example is dumb and so is the obvious troll right after.

>>94626018
You sound like my friend that gets mad when I get darkvision through devil's sight eldritch invocation or the gloom stalker subclass as a human

>>94625803
>If a caster wants to melee gish they should be able to use their main stat to do so.
No, no they should not. Characters only needing to care about a single ability score is a weakness of the system, not a strength, and any design that pushes further in that direction is a net detriment to the game.

>>94626111
Nta but your strawman is embarrassing to witness. Please refrain from shitting your pants so publicly

>>94626111
Dark vision doesn’t fill the role of what the fighter does lol.

Gosh I wonder why people think casters are supreme, maybe it’s because we keep giving all the caster classes easy access to what the martial class does and removed part of the enjoyment of playing a barbarian or fighter

>>94626174
>Characters only needing to care about a single ability score is a weakness of the system, not a strength,
Why? There's no way to build into being MAD outside of character creation other than foregoing feats for raw ASI, so instead of excising those features in preference of padding numbers why not just allow your primary stats to do more work?

>>94626269
>Gosh I wonder why people think casters are supreme, maybe it’s because we keep giving all the caster classes easy access to what the martial class does and removed part of the enjoyment of playing a barbarian or fighter
Are you retarded? People think casters are supreme because spells are very very good. Not because a caster can also smack something in melee range without having a negative modifier.

>>94626543
If that's the path you want to go down, be honest and just remove ability scores from the game. If your highest number is always what you use, the other five are just wasting space on your character sheet.

Alternatively, you could engage with the system as something that forces you to actually make choices about your character, rather than just letting you do everything just because you asked nicely.

>>94626593
No shit. The entire issue is that spells are really good and now you’re also giving them the stuff that martial classes do in combat without any downsides

You daft? Stop arguing for caster stats for melee combat

>>94626543
Single-classed paladins function just fine while balancing Strength, Charisma, and Constitution. Having "sorcerer" written on your character sheet instead doesn't somehow make it harder to raise your ability scores.

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Last iteration of this for now, got a bunch of errands.
>monstrous form scales and can be swapped with Feat
>doubled damage to normal form when you dont kill something
A Kraken-form should last a single turn on a 6th-level sorc that doesn't kill something each round, (though I don't doubt it could keep that up in a lot of situations). Your sorc will still be completely tapped for hit dice and sorc points after you do, not to mention rolling death saves hoping someone will pick his ass up.

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>>94626611
>>94626632
>>94626635
>If your highest number is always what you use, the other five are just wasting space on your character sheet.
The other numbers are still used for various other reasons, especially skill checks and saving throws. A Wizard who can melee with Int can still not lift a fucking rock, dodge a fire breath, sneak, or even effectively use armor. You're trading away a host of advantages you'd get with using Str or Dex just to focus on attacking and spellcasting.

In fact your argument is completely fucking backwards. You're bitching about classes specializing in one area by saying that it's too easy to be a generalist, and insisting that instead they can just increase their ability scores so that they can be generalists and get all the advantages of high stats in several categories. It's exactly the opposite of what you say you want.

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>>94626807

>>94623507
Not a gnome, but I am playing a goblin, for precisely that reason. Old rules but I am sweet talking my DM to let me have the Dreadnought model because holy fuck is that everything I ever wanted.

>>94625287
Counterspell nerfed, and if you like the counterspell nerf you're a whiny baby who probably cries or rages when you lose at a board game.

The new class abilities just give classes un-needed new abilities to buff them to make the seals clap, probably the kind you're referring to with barbarian.

The home base mechanic is un-needed and clearly designed to be a gimmick in the new VTT they're launching

Mob restats are pointess at best or take away non-combat abilities at best

Casts per spell is clearly a worse mechanic then spells per day designed for AI GM to run encounters.

Need I go on?

>>94626807
>You're bitching about classes specializing in one area by saying that it's too easy to be a generalist
Nobody's bitching about classes specializing in one area. People are bitching about features removing the requirements and costs of specializing in multiple areas. A character that specializes in a single area is fine. There are obvious weaknesses and areas in which the character can't contribute. Expanding into those areas should take up resources that would otherwise be devoted to the core specialization--you shouldn't be able to use weapons with the same ability score that you cast spells because you should have to balance your investment in both. A single level or feat is not a meaningful investment, and certainly isn't equivalent to maintaining multiple ability scores.
>can just increase their ability scores so that they can be generalists and get all the advantages of high stats in several categories.
They can't, though. That's the thing. There's a limit to how much you can pump your ability scores, and it usually doesn't result in you rocking six 20s. You end up compromising, as you should have to in order to cover multiple areas.

>>94627363
sadly this isnt the way this game is going
everyone wants to do everything and have characters with no weaknesses
and the game is designed to completely avoid obstacles in the first place
like level1 pcs can read any language and make infinite food - yay lets delete those aspects from the game

>>94625568
Real talk, is there any reason not to play the Hill Giant subrace?
Free knockdowns without a save at any level is massively OP, surely.

>>94627426
Can't you get that just by using a weapon with the Topple tag?

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>>94627432
Topple Mastery is locked to certain weapons and has a saving throw. Goliath's Hill Tumble says:
>Hill's Tumble (Hill Giant). When you hit a Large or smaller creature with an attack roll and deal damage to it, you can give that target the Prone condition.
This works with ALL attacks. Melee, Ranged, Spells. With a Longbow any Hill Goliath can snipe something out of the sky that's within 600 feet of them, they can use Spell Attacks like Ray of Frost. Automatic prone and fall...assuming they are Large or smaller of course.

>>94627521
That tumble thing with a ranged attack is funny.

>"You! Sit DOWN!"

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>>94627548
>down ya go!

>>94627363
>A single level or feat is not a meaningful investment, and certainly isn't equivalent to maintaining multiple ability scores.
Let's talk about examples then. Say a Bard who wants to be a melee attacker. At character creation they can go, say,
>10, 15, 12, 8, 13, 14
to focus Dex and Cha. Say they put their racial ASIs into +2 Dex +1 Cha the, for 17 and 15 respectively. Well then to get "max" Dex, all they need is one pure ASI and one half-feat, so by level 8 they have their 20 Dex and can thereafter pump Cha or whatever else they want, either with ASIs or through feats. Aside from being outright designed as an all-rounder anyway, they have a good stat spread for checks and defense, and their spell DCs are barely worse.

Then, consider a Bard who wants to be a Cha attacker instead. So they dump most of Dex for a spread something like
>10, 10, 15, 8, 13, 15
and choose +2 Cha +1 Con for 17 and 16. They get Eldritch Adept with Pact of the Blade with no ASI increase at level 4, so where the Dex Bard would be attacking with +4, the Cha Bard is still attacking with +3. The advantage here is that their spell save DC is also +3, rather than the Dex Bard's +2.

But in exchange for that, the Cha Bard gave up all the native advantages of having more Dex, IE better armor class and better Dex saves. They've chosen to be worse at that in exchange for more raw health through Con and to focus on attacking only. By getting that feature, this Bard is actually WORSE in several pretty important ways.

This is all to say, nothing about 2024 has actually made classes better at being "Mr. Everything". The way to be good at everything remains to just PAD YOUR FUCKING STATS, which is braindead easy.

In fact shifting all the subclass options to level 3 has erased things like the one level Hexblade multiclass dip. And yet here you are complaining they've made it worse, when by the metrics you've laid out for what is good and bad design, they've actually improved the system.

Why do you people still play this game? The mentally insane men in dresses, sodomites that made their sexuality their main identity-building block and the antiwhite Tumblr crowd have completely subverted the game. It's insanely dumbed down horrible to dm because WotC refuses to give the DM the tools he needs and the subclasses do little to change how the classes play and lets not forget they refuse to release new classes or subclasses/ player content at a decent rate. I mean paizo has a lefty problem as well but at least they release content for both GMs & players

>>94623081
Yep I switched to PF2e as my main DnD like game to play/GM because at the very least they regularly give out new classes and subclasses that actually change how the classes play

>>94627677
>paizo
Go back to your own general. If you don't like 5e why have you come to the 5e general?

I played pathfinder once. The players were the absolute worst cunts I've ever met in my life. Too retarded to try something that's not a D&D clone but too pretentious to just play 5e.

>Why do people play 5e despite it going woke?
You don't have to include any of the woke shit you know? Nobody is going to come in and gender swap your characters and add surgery scars. You can run the game as based as you want with the tools you're given.

>>94627677
>The mentally insane men in dresses, sodomites that made their sexuality their main identity-building block and the antiwhite Tumblr crowd have completely subverted the game.
None of these people are in my game, sounds like a you issue. Though I also don't look for fucking corporations to validate my personal beliefs

>>94627632
>They've chosen to be worse at that in exchange for more raw health through Con and to focus on attacking only

thats only because you're shit at character op.

>>94627847
Okay, so they build dex anyway. In which case why waste a feat on a feature you don't need to use?

>>94627677
Touch grass, 99.9% of parties aren't like this.

>>94625609
Not sure whats got you so upset
A retard who doesn't listen.
>do people usually hand over complete creative control when they acknowledge a flaw in something that's a wok in progress?
Nice strawman, the issue isn't not giving control over, it's when it's something mechanical that people have told you the reasons for limitations thereof and your means of changes do not even touch the concerns that were brought to you. You ignored everything told to you and just added actually meaningless debuffs that don't change the fundamental problems with the feature. This isn't a "conflicting visions" problem. You were told putting something up to DM is meaningless and that there are existing examples to compare for balance and told the extremes of why your current design is dogshit. In response, you add a ribbon of "but actually you don't have the same amount of HP and your prof stays the same" as if that changes the issues addressed. You didn't concede, you changed the subject without addressing the need. If your new changes don't address the original issues, then reposting an updated version will always prompt the exact same fucking response of "you didn't fix anything at all." There's no progress to your WIP.

>>94627677
My table is a bunch of tech industry nerds.
We're all in our 30s and normal.

Maybe move out of whatever shithole you currently reside in.

>>94627677
>paizo has the same problem with the people who play the game, but at least they have bloat!

Every single 5e player deserves to fucking die

>>94628226
>t. GURPS fan

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>>94628226
This is one of the most autistic things I've ever read
>If you don't play the CORRECT EDITION THEN DIE
What is wrong with you that you wish death on someone just because they enjoy a hobby you don't?

>>94624352
>strangely many grammatical errors in official spell descriptions
>absolutely bizarre decisions in RAW wording
>example: looking into an obscured area literally makes you blinded, which gives you disadvantage and enemies advantage for the foolish act of... looking at a cloud
>another example in the same game subsystem: effects that should cure blindness instead just give you sight, so you still have disadvantage and enemies still have advantage against you
>clumsy attempt to delete all "half-[X]" from the game, making backwards compatibility impossible despite the claims otherwise
>didn't hit halflings, though. racial slurs are fine if they're also insulting to short people, it seems
>stats tied to background swaps railroading builds into species for railroading builds into backstory; regression to a problem TCoE already solved
>the whole subscription model live service bullshit
>etc.

Balance doesn't seem trashed at least, but people haven't yet explored the system too deeply. There just... isn't much excitement about it in general, besides people spewing toxic positivity either in sunk cost or virtue signaling.

It's a lot of meh, some weird regressions, some baffling stuff, but overall... I think it's neither changing enough to justify a new edition nor changing so little it's backwards compatible.

It feels less like a 5.5e to me and more like a 5.25e, with a few changes that break compatibility for very poorly thought out reasons. Jeremy Crawford's "white man pontificates about what people he's never met care about" tweets are now being written into the rulebooks, huzzah.

Consultancy groups for this shit are some of the most privileged people on the planet regardless of their employees' ethnic/racial backgrounds, which is one of the reasons these changes often look retarded to the minority people in question, who usually see it for what privileged people can't seem to grasp that it is - marketing bullshit.

>>94624352
>2024 is inferior to 2014 in every single way
Except all of the classes are superior to their 14 versions.

>>94628273
You're a powergaming 5e fag

>>94628668
you can't powergane in 5e

>>94628677
NTA but this is the most retarded statement I've ever read.

>>94628693
You don't read your own posts?

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So this spell gives you 11 pieces of flaming ammo, or 12?

Can you just hand all the expect the last arrow out and let a bunch of followers use them?
Do they work with Cordon of Arrows?

>>94628714
12 arrows
yeah, but it only lasts an hour
I'd say no because flame arrows are the result of magic, even if the spell doesn't explicitly says they are magical, but ask your DM, they might say different

>>94628668
>Powergaming
What in my post makes you think that lmao, are you a bot? Let's stop replying to the obvious trolls /5eg/ please

>>94628800
All 5e players are powergaming fags who need a fucking knot rule to tie knots in a tabletop rpg instead of using their fucking brain and saying "my character ties a knot"

>>94627677
Pathfinder (and by extension 3e) have too much autism. I don't want to comb through numbers, feats, and obscure rules to play the game.
Pf2e is better about this stuff but I had also built it up in my head as this awesome character building system when it actually sucks and the multiclassing is a meme. The system is very bad with keeping you 'on the rails'.
Any rainbow LGBT woke Twitter keyboard warrior nonsense in the books, I can easily just... not use.

>>94628826
What page are the knot rules on?

>>94628826
You're a retard, if it's not in the rules, you can't do it. So no, your character can't tie a knot, it's not in the rules.

>>94628844
What page is the beastmaster ranger on?

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>>94628844

>>94628859
Wow, this is from the new PHB? Fuck, more reason not to buy it. The 2014 PHB was written by OSR writers and it shows, while the 2024 PHB is clearly written by "if it's not in the rules you can't do it" fags

>>94628859
What page is that?

>>94628877
The game has gone backwards. 5e 2024 is more 4e whereas 5e 2014 was more B/X+AD&D

>>94628886
>5e 2024 is more 4e
and thats a good thing

>>94628903
>>94628899
>codified rules is 4e

you guys are dumb

>>94628899
>>94628903
If it makes 5ebabbies continue to seethe like this, then 5.5 is looking pretty based

Say something nice about 5'24e.

>>94628942
Some retard keeps trying to force 5.24, so he seems content

>>94628910
Rulings and procedures over rules faggot

>>94628963
if you read the rope item pic and think you can only bind someone's legs with it you're a twat btw.

I wish there was less hyperbole here. Also less entrenched tribalism over minor things.

>>94628942
Fighter is much better. I can comfortably be a straight white male fighter without worry

>>94628978
It's not called a roleplaying game for nothing!

>>94628978
the improvements to Batllemaster were substantial but Psi Warrior is pretty gay
it's strange when they're like two of the same subclass

>>94629002
I'm playing psi-warrior and it seems more or less exactly the same. With Paladin gone I can crit fish with psi-warrior but the main benefit are the other powers anyways.

>>94628942
Barbarian is actually playable.

>>94628942
Sorcerer feels like a complete class with way better spell list capability, and Innate Sorcery helps you feel like there's a real wellspring of power in you, not just a limited wizard with metamagic.

guys, I've thought about it a bit more, and I think I can now safely say that I just kind of hate the new artificer. I'm glad it got buffed, but the whole class feels more soulless in a way it didn't before

>>94628942
Pact of the Blade is actually playable without Hexblade, and other Patrons than Fiend/Hex are actually good mechanical choices, not just taking a hit for flavor.

>>94628942
I really like what they did with monk

>>94629298
you think there's an issue with the new enspelled items and how artificers are designed?

>enspelled items
removed from artificer I dig that they exist - Martials (any class, really. more spells is good.) getting access to on demand spells is cool, I do sort of wish we'd gotten access to a lesser version that didn't require attunement but had maybe, a bunch of weaker rituals or something installed. Like, I don't think I need to pop an attunement slot to get speak with dead.
>ritual caster
yeah I guess

wait nvm ritual caster 2024 is shitter than 2014.

>the party is staying at the boreal dwarf village overnight. the habitants have been plagued by nightmares. a spirit is trapped in an ancient civilization's device to maintain a portal open to the plane of frost. in its agony, the spirit raises the mummified dead of the village from their barrows and they attack the village. the party wakes up in the middle of night to the sound of screams and barking sled dogs.

ok that's the setup but I need a mechanic to make the fight interesting. save as many villagers as possible? eh...
what stat block/mechanic would you use?

>>94629836
Snowstorm. The area is engulfed in a blizzard that makes everything heavily obscured and doesn't allow anyone to identity other creatures. Area is completely difficult terrain as well. Really swarm the village with very weak undead to incentivise AoE as well. Make it very chaotic and full of friendly fire.

It would work best if you were playing on a vtt so even the players couldn't tell where each other were or what they were attacking.

>>94619193
I'd like for WotC to bring back Circle of the Primeval and not make it dogshit
A Druid with a pet Dinosaur would have been a nice thing to have, we already have a pet Drake, pet Fire spirit and pet robots anyway
I'd also like for more subclasses that can actually mesh with each other instead of turning into dead weight after 3 levels too

>>94627677
>The mentally insane men in dresses, sodomites that made their sexuality their main identity-building block and the antiwhite Tumblr crowd have completely subverted the game

Curate who you play with, like having friends or something. Solves about 98% of problems related to 5e

The rest of my party is trying to play matchmaker between a blue dragon and a brass dragon.
What am I in for?

>>94628843
If you can't wrap your head around PF2e you are a moron. It's the sweet spot of complexity bewteen3.5/pf1e and 5e. Honestly, what I mainly ate about 5e was no new classes outside core apart from Artificer and the game being so dumbed down and the class subclasses changing so little in how their parent class plays it makes it boring.

>dm keeps throwing bosses at us with decently specific "do these to win" signs
>says its a sandbox
let us find the fucking problem solve then you dick

>>94627998
Hey man, i appreciate your response. As i said before, I believe change shouldnbe an iterative process. Just because the change (which i posed as a question "how about this") wasn't a complete overhaul doesn't mean i don't hear you.

It seems reasonable to me to see if smaller changes will suffice before I make larger ones.
I usually make changes of any kind in small bursts when I get an idea, but for big stuff I force myself to sleep on it.

All this to say i probably won't make any major changes to this particular brew for at least a week, sorry if that seems slow.

>>94630590
l>et us find the fucking problem solve then you dick
he probably did, but you're a fucking moron and didn't realize it

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>>94618151
I want to play as an evil George Washington, what build do you recommend?

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which makes more sense on a death cleric of bhaal lore/flavor wise, nu chill touch or toll the dead?

>>94631192
Both, but Toll The Dead if you only have one.

>>94631192
Check our some of the Illrigger spells too, theyre partnered content now

I legitimately do not understand why optimizers insist that Wizard is the strongest class and I never have.

>>94631647
Optimizers often don't play. Wizards eat massive shit in every single one of my games including bladesinger memery.

>>94631647
They said it at first before people understood the game well and they're just pig headed idiots doubling down.

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>>94631647
>>94631708
Here's a screenshot from an optimizer video. Their DM said they had a default kill. They literally play with DMs who just tell them they win.

>We won a 27 times deadly encounter
>We sat in a choke point and cast four AoE spells
>The DM had the enemies run into the AoE spells repeatedly until they all died
>DMs should let players skip combat if spellcasters cast enough spells

On what fucking planet does this ever happen this way? If my players are occupying a hallway inside the lair of an enemy army, the enemy army will stake out and win the war of attrition. The players cast Spirit Guardians, Sickening Radiance, and Spike Growth, which have ten minute durations (100 turns). Why on earth would my enemies just run in to those things instead of all holding actions to attack anything that can be seen through the door, or the door itself which has a finite amount of HP as detailed in the Objects section of the DMG?

This encounter has TWENTY Hill Giants in it. Twenty ranged attacks with +8 to hit and 3d10+5 damage on the first creature to be seen in the choke point equates to 253 average damage against a PC with an AC of 18, or 145.5 average damage against a PC with an AC of 23 (assuming they use the Shield spell that optimizers assume is always active for some reason), and that's without giving the Hill Giants advantage due to being unseen at the start of the readied action. If you give them advantage in this situation, which you absolutely should, it turns into 375.1 vs 18 AC or 251.48 vs 23 AC. Level 9 PCs have like 90 HP tops, meaning one round of the readied action by the Giants is likely to kill three level 9 PCs. If the DM is going to hand wave combat in this situation, it is FAR more likely that the PCs get steamrolled. Do optimizers really just play with DMs who always let them win?

>>94631731
Not to mention, the Hill Giants could easy break down the doors and the walls, and have enough time to literally tunnel underneath the party before they would die.

>>94631731
I watched that video, I'm not sure he described how it went down. But I do think he said they only skipped the rest of the encounter when there were barely any enemies left, not just with a full room.

>>94631744
They opened the doors, cast Sickening Radiance and Spike Growth, closed the doors, cast Spirit Guardians, then opened the doors to cast ranged spells, then closed the doors.

The DM did not have the enemies leave the AoEs and did not have them ready actions for when the door opened.

>>94631731
i dont care about what the muh combat fags are doing in their dogshit games but the way the tokens dont align with grid is bothering me

>>94631731
>They literally play with DMs who just tell them they win.
So yeah they don't play like I said. That's not playing, that's them literally having a GM stating they win when they did the optimizer dream without any kind of anything else like reality existing. That's not a game, that's not roleplay, that's not stakes or anything else, and nobody, nobody who plays, can do 5 fucking encounters of combat a day when you have shit like 20 enemies and a DM that actually does saves and shit, it takes forever and becomes mind destroying.

They don't play.

>>94631647
People assume that wizards will cast a single spell then afk with dodge and have high AC from multiclassing and the shield spell when in practice you ain’t dodging every round

>>94631647
>be Wizard
>get Wizard spell list
>get zero other features besides spellcasting

>be Bard
>get Wizard spell list
>also get all the Bard features

Wizard is somehow better.

>>94631731
lol
people actually take advice from these retards?

>>94632155
20+ monsters idling in a room that they snuck up on and nobody noticed them open the double doors and they got a free surprise round btw

>>94632215
There's actually 65 enemies in that encounter.

>>94631647
There was a real optimizer anon who posted his rankings a few weeks ago and he said Wizard was like mid tier. His list was way different from what the usual optimizers say, but all his points were solid and it felt like it was made by someone who actually plays the game.

Do you guys like 5e more then pathfindee 2e?

>>94632417
I’m curious now. Do you have a post number or some kind of key phrase so I can find it in the archive?

>>94632417
I never see anyone playing wizard so it's hard to form a real opinion on them. Objectively they're great simply for how many spellbooks and scrolls published adventures throw at you. You'll be the only one and all of then will go to you

>>94632425
Searching the archive for it myself now, I'll post it if I find it

Is there any reason to make up any form of mechanics for mass combat assuming it features a lot in your game? What is the difference between having actual stat sheets for each group of fighters a la strongholds and followers where you roll for the battle between two groups and then translating that somehow into narrative form vs something like
>party fights a group of guys somewhere in the field of battle
>okay because of what you did, x and y happen
>or if you really want chance to be part of it roll a d100 and say "since you guys did x there's now a y% chance z happens"

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>>94632467
The real question is what the fuck are you doing that mass combat is even a thing when the game is about a squad of powerful people doing tactical strikes. You aren't fucking killing a city or being in the frontlines of an army, you're meant to be a squad of elite people doing purposeful low scale strikes into valuable or important locations for relatively minor scale assasination, sweeps and more.

You can have combats where you have big masses of people but you just use swarms for that and slap some stats on that shit if you wanna roleplay having like 50 foot soldiers fucking your shit up. If you're ever doing commander tier actions on an army you've gone far far beyond what you are meant to do because put simply, none of you fuckers are army generals. If you want to have your party interact with shit, you could have stuff like a rogue, a warrior and a ranger pouring knowledge with a General and people down the chain to influence how they do their tactics but you aren't being soldiers.

>>94632417
>>94632425
>>94632457
Found it. It's post >>94431582 and there's a lot of clarifying posts from him and questions from anons in it.
Here's a copy paste of the tier list so you don't have to look it up through the archive:

Tiers have three breaks. First break is just the full class if it belongs in the tier on its own. Second break is any stand out subclasses from classes in lower tiers. Third break is only in S Tier and it's recognized broken multiclasses. Nothing is really ordered within the tiers though. There's a few oddities in my list, which I can explain if asked. This obviously isn't set in stone or anything, just my personal thoughts on it and my mind can be changed about stuff.

S Tier
>Sorcerer
>Artificer (Artillerist), Bard (Lore), Cleric (Peace, Twilight), Paladin (Open Sea, Watchers), Wizard (Illusion)
>Sorlock, Bardlock, Hex/Sorc/Bard-adin Multiclasses, Sharpshooter Multiclasses

A Tier
>Artificer, Bard, Cleric, Paladin
>Barbarian (Ancestral Guardian, Giant), Druid (Shepherd, Wildfire), Fighter (Battle Master, Echo Knight, Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, Rune Knight), Monk (Mercy, Shadow), Ranger (Fey Wanderer, Gloom Stalker, Swarmkeeper), Rogue (Phantom), Warlock (Celestial, Fathomless, Genie), Wizard (Bladesinging, Chronurgy, Divination, Scribes, War Magic)

B Tier
>Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Warlock, Wizard
>Barbarian (Beast, Juggernaut, Zealot), Monk (Astral Self, Kensei), Rogue (Arcane Trickster, Soulknife, Thief)

C Tier
>Barbarian, Monk, Rogue

>>94632467
you make mechanics when it's fun for players to interact with them

>>94632504
>you're meant to be a squad of elite people doing purposeful low scale strikes into valuable or important locations
Oh I agree. I'm not asking if I should make my players play commander type mass combat shit, I'm asking if there's any type of campaign where mass combat with heavy rules actually work even if it's purely from the GM side of the screen. For context, a lot of my party's adventures revolve around doing stuff inside besieged cities or doing some black ops type stuff against targets inside armies that are sometimes on the move, engaged in battle etc. The way I've been running it so far is breaking down their small actions that provide benefits or complications to the overall mission just purely based on what I feel is the logical thing to happen. If the mission is to steal a mcguffin artillery weapon bombarding their client's armies and they take the long way around the fortress, I say something like "okay you're undetected and you're in a less defended side of the fortress but the mcguffin howitzer had more time to nuke your patron's guys and they're gonna lose soon, knowing what you know about your enemy, x y and z might happen". Discussions about making more "concrete" rules with units and positions were brought in by players to "since we're dealing with a lot of mass combat as the backdrop"

>>94632539
I understand the arguments for Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric and Paladin being above Wizard, but Artificer above Wizard is pretty weird. It's also a little odd that he doesn't have Moon Druid listed apart from the base Druid Other than that, I think I agree with everything.

>planning a two-shot where the players are trying to escape from a haunted house
>want to have possessed people doing spooky shit in the background, and some horrific scenes they will discover while moving through the house
>realize two of my players will be able to see everything at all times, since one is a druid who will turn into a spider and crawl through every obstacle, and the other has a specter familiar that can move through walls
Is there a good way to stop this that won't just frustrate my players? Is it a mistake to try and run this sort of thing with level 7 PCs?

>>94632584
>I'm asking if there's any type of campaign where mass combat with heavy rules actually work even if it's purely from the GM side of the screen.
The lazy answer is no, the less lazy answer is likely yes but its dandwiki tier. You might want to check chase rules and shit since it seems like that's kind of what you're going for, or maybe a reverse thing of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okMzK3v-0yY where instead of running or hiding, you're basically doing the reverse and getting tokens to enable sabotage and shit.

Consider the following:
>Regular house spider: 2 Strength
>You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity
>For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
>You are encumbered if your carry weight is in excess of 5 times your strength score
>Spider's carrying capacity before encumbrance is 9lb

Meaning a regular tarantula in Faerun has enough strength to carry off most human babies.

i am pretty sure the obnoxious that guy "im a veteran who's seen combat irl" player at my table is cheating the roll20 dice (has never rolled below 15 in 4 sessions). What drives someone to do this?

>>94632782
There's literally nothing wrong with minmaxing. Rules Lawyer is okay if they only do so for clarification, but a lot of people use the term Rules Lawyer incorrectly and actually mean Power Gamer. Cheating die rolls and reading ahead is never okay.

>>94632813
How does one cheat the roll20 dice?

>>94632738
MAGICAL DARKNESS

His specter gets possesed/attacked by other specters

Have rats/bats/other spiders on the other side of doorways the druid has to contend with

Ask your players not to peak into other rooms yet

>>94632937
>MAGICAL DARKNESS
I do plan to have a higher level warlock wandering around, so darkness spells are a good option
>His specter gets possesed/attacked by other specters
Good idea, I might have another spirit constantly bombard it with something like vicious mockery
>Have rats/bats/other spiders on the other side of doorways the druid has to contend with
I thought about something like this, but we're using 2024 rules where druids get to keep their health pool while wild shaped for some retarded reason. Might just overrule that though

Thanks for the ideas

>>94632747
>For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
Check the book again

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>>94621784
>>94621784
Chuck WOTC artificer and try LaserLlama's instead.
It's genuinely really good. Main difference is that you don't pick up Spells till lv2, you change spells on a level up, and some features of Armorer are changed (it sticks to the defender model, but you can take the infiltrator stuff and blaster as infusions for any artificer.
On the flipside you get an extra infusion (2 at level 1), way more fun infusions to choose, short rest spell recharges, and it just feels a lot more fun to play as. Give it a shot
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-M8kCf8mUHGH4y2tx5i4
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-M_Vp0-G2_ELZB3ruaoZ

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>>94632972
Whoops a spider should be able to carry 15lbs and move 30lbs at 5ft/turn

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>>94631647
It's because of all the spells a Wizard has, can pick, and can learn, at some point wizards gain the ability to solve every problem or situation with a spell so you need to get really creative as a GM to prevent lame solutions... or get F-ed as your wizard either blows the problem up, mind controls the secrets out, use sending-ing and Speedy Courier like a cell phone and amazon, raise the dead guy back to life and then casts Wall of Force and Hypnotic Pattern ending fights before you could even show off the boss's cool trick.

Witches are cute though, they might get a pass.

>>94629836
>>94630354
I think you might make this a bit more playable than a blanket heavily obscured area by using moving heavily obscured zones that travel through the battlefield with the wind (i.e. particularly strong gusts of wind/snow) - gives brief glimpses of the allies and enemies, then obscures them again. Feels more chaotic IMO despite technically giving the players/characters more information.

Unfortunately without digital tools (or I sometimes use those old overhead projector transparencies for stuff like this) it's going to be hard to track, so you may get a similar effect by just rolling to have each combatant be heavily obscured or not - I just really like doing the "an environmental effect rolls through the battlefield" thing.

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>>94618272

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>>94630354
>>94633237
Im gonna use the fog of war as a subsitute for heavily obscured / snow blizzard. Give them 20ft of "night vision" through the fog and just have that limited visibility be the thing, but for once they cant just ignore it due to all having night vision

>>94633226
>Speedy Courier
You're just making spells up now. That's not in any of the books they've printed.

>>94633139
On the other hand, there's the fact that LaserLlama's brew is generally shit. So there's that.

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>>94633398
oh anon

>>94633697
Okay, anon, show me the book that was printed that includes it.

>>94633758
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/404882497574
Sorry if you were hoping to get off on a digital media technicality. :(

>>94633847
The item description explains that this was printed by the seller, not WotC. I’m still waiting.

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>>94633862
https://www.enworld.org/threads/lost-laboratory-of-kwalish.654872/
At work, it's official material like domains of delight, the tortle and grung books, or the dnd movie statblocks I think

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eldritch knight (2024) 14/arcane trickster 4/wizard (war magic) 2 or eldritch knight (2024) 18/wizard (war magic) 2?
I was also considering wizard (war magic) 10/eldritch knight (2024) 7/arcane trickster 3, but I would lose an attack and a lot of the good stuff of eldritch knight (2024).
I was also thinking about the warlock (great old one, 2024) because of the brutal social/non combat utility it offers, but I think it would be harder to make it feel gishy.
Any thoughts?

>>94633928
Rick and Morty content is also “legit”, but mr Meeseeks is hardly something I’d consider to be dnd content to be used at all times

>>94633970
I think I will go wizard (war magic) 10/fighter (eldritch knight 2024) 8/rogue 2
That way I can pick elven accuracy, warcaster, fey touched, and have enough ASI left to end up with both dex and int at 20.
It will be a 20 session campaign, so I think I will go 1 fighter, 2-3 wizard, 4-9 eldritch knight, 10-11 rogue, 12-20 wizard

>>94633970
>but I think it would be harder to make it feel gishy.
24 Warlock Pact of the Blade is actually playable with whatever Patron you want. You only need charisma, but upping Dex for better AC is a good idea, since Armor of Shadows is better than any standard Light Armor.

>>94634329
yeah, but war magic (ek 2024 feature) is just that good imo
although going 12 levels into warlock (goolock 2024), but starting as sorcerer or fighter for con save and either some spell slots for shield and silvery barbs or weapon mastery and fighting style.
Maybe rogue could be good too, or bard. I just find it hard to use these archetypes to vibe thematically with a gish. And it must be the goolock 2024. I love the features and always loved the flavor.

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I need a mini puzzle for a session a few hours from now, something that will take about 1 hour MAX. For context they've just awoken in this little house.

>>94634712
Don't know why I posted, I wasn't finished.
Awoken in this little house, I want them to spend about an hour here, then when they open the doors they'll be at the top of a mountain. I just need something for them to do in the house.

Who are gnomes even for?

>>94634724
a puzzle to open the door to the outside?
why are they trapped there?
how did they get there?

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i became forever nogaems after graduating college and getting a job where i have to do so much fucking work all day, but if i ever get in a 5.5e game before i die i want to play an elf berserker barbarian with the mage slayer feat
at level 6:
>immune to charm while raging
>immune to fear while raging
>immune to magical sleep because elf
>once per long rest auto-succeed any wis/int/cha saving throw
>long rests to get back rages/mage slayer auto success comes back after 4 hours because elf
it tickles my autism receptors to have such immunities even though i know normie DMs never charm or sleep martials nowadays

>>94634724
put a dead body in the house, have them figure out how it died

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Ok, new DM here. How the heck do I set up a good battlemap for my players?
I don't mean actually creating one, I know there are plenty of tools online to make dungeons and whatnot. I mean actually having something to put character minis onto. I don't see how anyone does it. Battlemaps you draw onto are so boring, so I'd have to buy premade battlemaps to lay out on the table (and then worry about space on the table), or get some kind of electronic display, but that sounds really expensive either way. My last group just laid a big old tv flat on its side onto the table and HDMI'd to it with their laptop, but I don't have a spare TV just sitting around.

What do people do?

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>>94635084
I use Talespire because my friends are long distance. It can take a while but there are some good sites out there to download premade maps. Personally, I spend hundreds of hours making maps for my games. Very fun.

When I was a kid I used Tupperware for buildings, and socks for hills and stuff. I know people used to use LEGO.

>>94634585
If you are going 10/10 ek24/wiz, pick telekinetic instead of fey-touched. You got enough spell slots to just cast mosty step on your own resources, but you have no reliable bonus action, and telekinetic gives you exactly that. Besides, it is sovlful as fuck.

>>94635084
You can get a decent sized TV these days to make a table display pretty cheap, and you could use extruded aluminum to make a table yourself that only requires a screwdriver to assemble, and the aluminum and a plexiglass sheet can be custom ordered to specific sizes pretty easily.

A bunch of companies make battle mats with area designs, but you're limited to what they've printed in designs and the size of the sheets, and may end up keeping buying new ones to keep it fresh.

Or you can go to Fedex Office and have them print off a large format print of whatever maps you plan to use that week.

Any way it goes, you're going to be spending money, but the tv table feels like it's the "once and done" option.

So just curious. If a spell requires a verbal component but your character is mute. Is there a mechanic to work in using your hands? Not so much as ASL but kinda like Doctor Strange weaving the spells instead of speaking them?

>>94635523
The mechanic is that you can't cast spells with verbal components if you're mute. That kinda the whole point of shit like Silence

>>94635523
Be an Artificer and use their level 1 feature to playback verbal components. Alternatively have a familiar that can mimic/use speech to say it for you. Could also cast a spell/cantrip without a verbal component but which can create sounds in order to make the effect, but you're running your actions ragged there. Minor Illusion can create sounds so you could use it for any Bonus Action spell. Again you could use this as recording fodder.

Sorcerer can obviously Subtle Spell out anything without needing components.

Could do something like taking Encode Thoughts, listing a verbal component per spell per encoded strand, then say that if you break the strand it verbalizes the thought. It's 8 hours so you could prep it in advance. Maybe do some metamagic to make them 16 hour casts so you can preprep multiple in a row before a long rest without losing spellslots.

Funny interaction, Message says you whisper something, but in fact has no Verbal component. So it could also be used as a Verbal component.

The point is you don't necessarily need to verbalize a component orally, it just needs to be verbalized.

>>94635631
The only one of those that would actually work is subtle magic. You're basically playing calvinball

>>94635654
Why would those others not work? I'll admit the Encode Thoughts is basically homebrew. But so long as a verbal component is created in conjunction with casting the spell, you don't necessarily need to say it yourself.
>The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion.

>>94635693
At that point, it doesn't even need to be the caster saying the verbal components then if another source can say them. Just have the other party member do it. And really why would the caster need to do the somatic and material components either? Just have the other party do it.

>>94635711
Well another party member means burning their actions or free actions, them having a mind meld to know what to cast, what to target, and what to say, and there is a lag between communications unless you have been trained since childhood to be Jeager pilots. A spell or minion is under direct control of the caster. PT members are not.

>>94635523
You could go 2024 goolock and focus on illusion and enchanting spells (and eldritch blast).
They can cast shit from those schools with literally free subtle spell. Become uncounterable. Cast in the middle of everyone at a social situation and nobody will find out. You also get to convert your damage into psychic damage if you would so prefer.

>>94635724
So? If any source can make any spell components for a caster then it doesn't matter if it's under the control of the caster. A villager 17 miles away can say the verbal, the squirrel up the tree can do the somatic, and the materials are somewhere around here. It doesn't matter what the source is apparently, so long as it happens somewhere in the world.

>>94635731
>>94635523
pact of the blade goolock (2024) 12/shadow sorcerer 8 to be more precise

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>>94635758
>maxing a PC
Has such a pinnacle ever been reached?