We had a whole discussion over making the last thread be a homage or in honor of Terry and ended up deciding not to, that's why we went with Fireworks Edition. 4chan is a place full of disrespectful people, and last thread merely mentioning his passing already got us a guy making some not so respectful comments.

>Picture isn't anything special
>Three different questions, none having anything to do with the other

Guess that one is on me, I should have asked more questions before trusting a random stranger on an anonymous Singaporean cartoon board.

The dubs are nice, though.

I've started getting into WoD and its lore and just wanted to ask how all the different games fit together before I go deeper. Specifically oWoD. Is there one canon story you can work out if your read everything or are a lot of the different story elements mismatched? If mismatched, which games fit together the most closely? I read somewhere that Vampire the Masquerade, Wraith the Oblivion, Demon the Fallen, and Hunter the Reckoning are the most connected, is that true? What about the other games?

>>94694948
>just wanted to ask how all the different games fit together
They don't.

Do all Chantry members get their own Sanctum or is that a privilege reserved to Mages that actually contribute something?
This of course excludes non-Mage Cabal members like fera, acolytes and other "pets."

Lets add a different question, the one that we where talking about at the end of the last thread.

What is the usage of Hunters in your campaign? How dangerous are they? Can you think of any Hunter plans or actions that really stuck in your mind as especially capturing the prototypical essence of being a Hunter?

>>94694822
Can there be multiple MtAw caucuses in one area? Or is it ust one per several consiliums? Given that they´re lead by orders I tohught that there might be several at once. Or would it be like NYC has 1 caucus and is neighbored by another caucus upstate and then by another orders caucus down in Jersey?

>>94694948
>how all the different games fit together before I go deeper. Specifically oWoD.
They are not, they were never designed to be interoperable, to have cross play, or even technically be in the same setting.

Which was one of the changes CofD made when it was made after they "finished" oWoD Revised Edition with the various End Times books. It has a single unified setting and rules system where the core mortal had a "template" applied to turn them into a supernatural in mechanics terms. They also moved away from doing a heavy metaplot for the setting to instead give STs/Players more tools and options.

>>94695040
Do you mean nwod?
Cofd was shat out long after 20th anniversary and did none of that.

>>94695029
A caucus is an event, not an organization.

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>Is called Nosferatu
>Actually a proper example on how to play a Tzimisce

>>94695017
>What is the usage of Hunters in your campaign? How dangerous are they? Can you think of any Hunter plans or actions that really stuck in your mind as especially capturing the prototypical essence of being a Hunter?
Haven't used them yet, but one of my players has the "Witch-hunted" Flaw and it's meant to be a big deal plot-wise. The character's family are Hunters, tried to kill her soon after she awakened but let her go for sentimental reasons. Later she joined a ragtag "cabal" of Hollow Ones who embraced her as family. She was happy for a couple years until the Hunters tracked her down and killed all her friends. Once again they allowed her to live, this time revealing that she's their "bloodhound." They know weak little witches seek their kind, and for as long as she lives they will continue to use her to find prey.
She later joined the Euthanatos and after years of training, she tracked down her former family and killed the two most experienced Hunters. Now, many years later, the remaining members are looking for revenge.
But since this murder-happy goth chick and her cabal-mates have a healthy amount of dots in multiple spheres, possess some powerful toys and relatively strong allies I have yet to decide how these Hunters are going to become a big threat. My only idea is to have them put immense pressure on the players to force Paradox backlashes. There's a few Edges out there that can immediately trigger Paradox or even lower their Willpower, so maybe they could stack those too.

>>94695072
Tzimisce, despite their bodyhorror schtick, are Vampires' Vampires

>>94694839
>A monster hunter story about a group of interchangeable cannon fodder is like making a Godzilla movie that is about all the little talking Japanese soldiers and not about Godzilla. Who gives a shit about those guys, ya feel me?
Well, there's a reason all Godzilla movies (that I've seen) show the story from the pov of the humans, not Godzilla. People like the cool superhuman shit, but they also like the relatable and grounded average joes too. My post was more for making antagonist Hunters, if you want to buff up PCs then it's obviously harder to do it that way. Plus Sam and Dean are definitely not typical Hunters even a couple seasons in.

>>94695103
>>94695072
Something I really like about "new" Tzimisce is that they keep a lot of "old clan Tzimisce" traditions like not entering places without being invited, being generally true to their word and respecting hospitality customs. I also like how some actually develop attachment to their szlachta as if they were pets.
Must be cool to get invited over for biscuits and tea by a Tzimisce knowing that despite being one of the sickest, most dangerous motherfuckers in town he genuinely just wants to chitchat... just don't look under the table as it might be made of living flesh and bone. Hell, the tablecloth is probably made of living tissue too.

>>94694822
>White people when they get Embraced by a Setite be like

>>94695063
So, the consilium is still the highest unit below the worldwide organisation? And the caucus is entirely separate?

Lasombra > Ventrue

Tremere > every other clan

>>94695299
Consilium is a city, yeah. Consilium doesn't fold under order, it folds under the pentacle as a whole, if that's what you're saying.
Orders don't really divide up territory the way owod sects do, they're more seperate and collaborative.

>>94695373
>Tremere? They're a glorified bloodline!
>They embrace anyone and everyone over there; and the way they do it is all fucked up

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I'm late to ask this but did you guys get your Action Bill playset from Santa?

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>>94695349
Based
>>94695373
Cringe

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>>94695784
Gooze and dolls for me this year

>>94695118
You clearly haven't understood my point or seen enough godzilla movies.

All I'm saying is that the Lasombra must have terrible fangs and hair. Think about it, no reflection!

>>94694822
>>94695137
WE WUZ PHARAOHS N SHIET

>>94694986
Do all the members of the family get an exclusive room for themselves at home? Answer: It depends on the space available.

>>94695784
No.
I need coal for my industrialisation efforts.
Lots and lots of coal.

>>94694822
setites embraced lovecraft?

>>94695869
Dominate means not having to worry about your thrall drawing a dick on your face.

>>94695827
>Not double D Didi

>>94695879
It's a pun. It means boobs in multiple european languages.

>>94695892
Oh, I didn't know that. Sorry.

>>94695892
TIL.
I didn't know it either.

>>94695063
>Do you mean nwod?
It's easier to just use the current name for both editions, don't try to start that stupid trolling tactic again.

8,100,037 people as of the start of 2024 lived in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

If 0.5% of the population is in some way associated with the supernatural and 1/4 of them are actual splats. What would you say is the distribution of the 101,250 supernatural creatures?

>>94696249
It's not trolling to point out CofD is only a continuation of nWoD for marketing purposes.

You can't even call it a Ship of Theseus situation because the ship now doesn't belong to Theseus anymore, isn't called Silver Seed* anymore, and isnt used for the same purposes as when Theseus had it.

Also, it's always funny when you set out to have some fun with some like-minded people and end up having to solve a millenia old paradox. If we don't end up killing God or some other sort of entity that represents some convoluted abstract question at the end, it's not really a proper RPG story, I guess.

*Silver Seed is the name of the proverbial ship in a novel called Last of the Amazons. The ship from the original thought experiment is never named. Just thought it'd be a fun trivia factoid to include there.

>>94696409
Fuck. Off. Troll.

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>>94696405
Nice try, Math Teacher.
We're on holiday break, and you can't tell us what to do!

>>94696414
>Pls bro it's just like the nWoD
>Pls bro just one hit I promise you
>Pls bro don't point out CofD's core books have nothing to do with nWoD
>Pls bro don't point out we're no longer a reimagining of a beloved franchise whose cultural footprint we tried and failed to leverage and got shitcanned
>Pls bro I need that royalty money
>Pls bro I'm on food stamps
Do yourself a favour and message Renegade already. Slop per slop, your shit will fit right in with 5th edition.

>>94696249
The current name of nwod is nwod
The current name of cofd is cofd
There's no relationship between the two franchises. They aren't even products of the same company or the same writers/developers.

>>94696409
I had no idea. Tell me about this new vampire game that isn't Requiem. Did they stop using the Covenants and go back to Sects? Did they decide to move away from arch-typical vampires and go back to what Masquerade did? Are bloodlines still a thing? Are they more like Masquerade or Requiem bloodlines? What changes did they make to the cosmology?

>>94696481
So you're telling me the developer of Requiem didn't start writing for the line all the way back in 2007 starting with Damnation City? That DaveB, Hill, Ingham, Wilson, and Young never wrote for White Wolf or nWoD before, or that most of them worked on Requiem 1e at some point or another?

>>94696502
>>94696533
The best bit is VtR 2e launched before the rebrand so it still has The World of Darkness in its legal information.

For real though, don't troll by replying to trolls. Just ignore them.

>9th dot in Daimonion lets a Baali sacrifice themself to unleash a demon in the regular world
>only known 4th gen Baali are the 3-4 progenitors of the clan
Explain

>>94695040
Ah, I see. Even though they’re technically not the same setting, are there some that are more vaguely compatible with each other storywise? I read that VtM, WtO, DtF, HtR were, but I don’t know enough to be sure.

>>94696620
Means no one's summoning demons in the regular world. They just threaten to.

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>>94696502
>Pls bro, it's still Guns n Roses
>Axl is on vocals, what more do you want?
>Yeah, I know he’s built like a deep-fried marshmallow now and sounds like a dying cat, but it's still Axl Rose.
>Yeah, I know he looks like your Aunt Linda after a bad divorce and not like a skinny twink anymore, time does things to people, bro.
>Yeah, I know Chinese Democracy sounds like a Nine Inch Nails B-side, what's your point?
>Yes, Slash and Duff bailed and made Velvet Revolver.
>No, Velvet Revolver isn’t Guns n Roses, it’s got Scott Weiland.
>What do you mean Velvet Revolver sounds more like classic GnR than the band that is marketed as a continuation of GnR?
>Just shut up and accept that Marketing Word Is Law, bro.
>Why you gotta be a trolling hater?
You're a dirty little liar with a message of obsession to come
You got your head in the clouds, and your World's upside down
Geeet away from the lifeeee you're liviiiiiing
Get away from the drugs you're takiiiing

https://youtu.be/M9jNBuEqD4E?si=4Z5rqZfoWroHjCcG

>>94696620
>9th dot in Daimonion lets a Baali sacrifice themself to unleash a demon in the regular world

the books explain: in the first edition and most other books it's said that this it's meant to be a plot device for the players to stop because if they ritual successes that it's for the world of darkness

one book actually mentions that the baali tried to use it thrice before (presumably the baali wars are part of the rituals) but got final death for it
>This power only exists in apocrypha, as no Baali has ever successfully completed the rite. Only thrice in all of history has any Methuselah made the attempt, and in all cases they paid for failure with immediate Final Death.

mind you the power is about fusing hell and earth, summoning demons is just daimonion 5 and presence 3 together if you don't want to use blood sorcery or mortal thralls

>only known 4th gen Baali are the 3-4 progenitors of the clan
not quite true in all books the quote above that adds 3 more dead baali methusulah is from devil's due and chaos factor had a whooping 13 baali 4th gens sleeping (12 after nergal woke up)

not that they would need more progenitors or even true 4th gens to have daimion 9 because they can reduce their generation or raise disciplines, skill and stats above their generation limit with demon pacts which we actually see with some baali npcs like Sahar-Hannibaal who is a 7th gen with 8 dots in several of his stats and Daimoinon 7 despite his generation limit being 6 so he just needs two more demons pacts then he could try to open the gates

not that he would because he is part of the "i don't want hell on earth, i live here" faction of baali and demons probably want some serious shit for a 9th dot power. but he has the know-how to try to reach that goal if he wanted to

>>94696630
Some fit together better than others, such as VtM, WtO, DtF, and HtR or on the flipside, MtA, WtA, and CtD. But none of them fit together perfectly. There is material that puts multiple splats in one place, or has them interact, but no real effort to make them "fit" together was ever done.

Some tables just pick a splat and stick to it, other tables operate on splat primacy system where if you're playing Vampire the Vampire stuff takes precedence over any contradictory lore in other games. Some just cherrypick and alter material to make it fit in a way they like it, and some are so crazy they run it all as is and could write a college level essay on how it all fits perfectly and makes complete sense (it doesn't).

>>94695349
I have never seen a good Lasombra player.

>>94696800
Me neither.
Because Lasombra can't see themselves in the mirror.
Har har har I am so funny.

>>94696800
i never seen a lasombra player! i am playing with the same group since 2017 and lasombra, brujah, salubri and ravnos are just clans none of my players seem to want to play at all

>>94695137
That's artwork from Mummy anon. Just a reminder, the Ptolemy's were pasty greeks

>>94696650
It's okay not to like 2e, but this insistence it's not the same is weird. Do you think Revised is a different game than earlier editions of WoD? Is Masquarade 1e the same game as what came later despite its differences? Are the 20th Anniversary books a different game because most of them were put out by Onyx Path and often times had writers that never worked on WoD except, for rare occasions like Brucato coming back for Mage?

>>94696567
Sorry Anon, but I'm killing time until I got an appointment and want to see how deep this rabbit hole goes.

>>94697151
It gets doubly stupid to try separating editions when later edition books reference earlier books for information, sometimes referencing books that reference other books. That pipeline can stretch all the way back to 1e in some cases.
An infamous example is Faith 6+, the example abilities of which are Only found in the original Hunters Hunted because the writers never reprinted them and just kept referencing back to HH when it was needed.

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>>94697151
>It's called a logical differentiation, Tone.
>You apply the principle of the indiscernibility of identicals—
>Yes, Leibniz's Law.
>That’s the one where if two things don’t share all of the same properties, they ain’t the same thing.
>So, you look at CofD and nWoD core books, right?
>You see that CofD has all this extra canon, this timeline shift, the whole structured thing, and nWoD don’t.
>That means they’re different, man.
>It should be obvious, but some people are so obtuse, you have to write a fucking equation and a three page essay for them to understand.
>It’s like... if I had two cars—one’s a '67 Mustang, the other’s a 2024 model—they might both be Mustangs, but they ain't the same car.
>Except those two game lines don't have the same name either.
>They’re separate lines.
>You get it?
>Separate.
>Lines.

Read all of that and inform yourself, since you have time.

>>94640915
>>94642054
>>94642059
>>94642062
>>94642064
>>94642068

>>94697433
That seems too granular and rigid If applied consistently to all media.

Would you rather be a 15th gen thinblood, ronin garou or orphan?

>>94697643
orphan seems to have the sweetest deal here

you can just join a tradition, craft or convention later with no hard feeling from anyone involved

a ronin has to run away from wyrm corruption and can barely learn any gifts and can only join the garou nation by doing a question of redemption from then... and you are still joining the garou nation

and a thinblood has no powers in comparision to either and depending on edition even day walking is not a given as it might need a merit that i am not sure i am gonna have before the embrace

>>94697511
>Checked

Hmmm, while it might seem granular to the layman, ontological differentiation isn’t about nitpicking over trivial details—it’s about recognizing distinct entities based on their essential, non-identical properties.
When two media entities—whether they’re works, franchises, or categories—differ in structure, narrative, or canonical coherence, they should be treated as distinct.
It’s about individuation, not granularity.

Since I’m aiming for a decisive answer to a specific question, I needed precision to ensure conceptual clarity. Without it, there’s a risk of ambiguity, which can easily lead to confusion and endless flame warring.

Or, in Sweet Sweet Mathematical Notation:
if A ≠ B, then for all x, x ∈ A x ∉ B.
This distinction helps avoid conflating entities based on superficial similarities, allowing for clearer analysis when necessary, while still keeping broader thematic connections in mind.

>>94696897
I've had a Lasombra and a Ravnos. Lasombra was kind of a mess, going from gimmick to gimmick and honestly came off as a poor man's Ventrue. All the entitlement and arrogance, none of the competence or manners.

The Ravnos was basically a high functioning sociopath and had nothing to do with gypsies at all. Was more fun to play with than that description sounds.

The clan's I've never seen played at my table are Toreador and Gangrel.

>>94697745
Great, then fucking years writing in my best Dissertation Fu and trying to find the ascii character for the equation only for 4chan fumble the bag on the If And Only If symbol.

The correct equation, without the troublesome symbol: if A ≠ B, then for all x, x ∈ A if and only if x ∉ B.

>>94697745
But wouldn't late nWoD be a different game than early nWoD? Requiem had no idea what the fuck it was doing and tonally changed from something incredibly bleak to something more similar to CofD by the end. Just read the core book and Especially considering Blood and Smoke was a nWoD supplement.

>>94697746
>The Ravnos was basically a high functioning sociopath and had nothing to do with gypsies at all. Was more fun to play with than that description sounds.
>The clan's I've never seen played at my table are Toreador and Gangrel.
i am the anon you asnwered and this is kinda ironic given that i just allowed my player to play a nephilim toreador yesterday... it's kind of a shame because i really like the sin theme the ravnos have going on in the dark ages, but i am not gonna force a character concept on my player

but in turn i had a very fun gangrel character in my group recently who was one of mithrias' knight of avalon who started out as a confused and young lad who saw knighthood as his way to keep himself from damnation despite his condition who became a super jaded witcher like monster hunter with a alchimist ghoul over a year of play

>>94697806
If you had bothered to read the original argument linked earlier, you would have noticed that we are constraining the analysis to the core books.
Supplemental material is optional.
What defines the CORE of a line is, you guessed it, what is in the Core Books.
CofD is God Machine Chronicle pretending to be nWoD.

>>94697865
Except nWoD is a collection of game lines, not a collection of core books.

>>94697878
A collection of game lines that all have their core books.
What The Fuck, Anon.

>>94697891
Do you get this pedantic in situations like when people ask a question about the Ordo Dracul, and someone gives information from the Covenant book or Rites of the Dragon rather than just sticking to the Requiem core book?

>>94697643
Orphan is probably the least shit because you can just continue to exist without having to deal with the supernatural full time.
Even if you get the right perks as a thin blood you are still pretty much fucked because some asshole is going to put a gut to your head regardless of what the fuck you do.
Ronin/Lost cubs are in a similar position but the spirits are a bit easier to ignore even if the rage problems will be a pain.

>>94697920
It depends on the context of the discussion.

Abd you. Do you always get this transparently buttmad when the scientific method contradicts your beliefs?

>>94697982
I'm not mad, I'm stressed because two of my cats got out last night and I don't know where they are.

>>94697433
>>You apply the principle of the indiscernibility of identicals—
>>Yes, Leibniz's Law.
>>That’s the one where if two things don’t share all of the same properties, they ain’t the same thing.
terrible bait

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>>94697865
>God Machine Chronicle pretending to be nWoD
GMC is literally nWoD.

you all are fucking stupid
this is the worst topic this general has been stuck on in months

>>94698009
That sucks big time, Anon =[
I hope you find them soon, and well.

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Would Silent Hill be good inspiration for a WoD game?

For context, before the European settlers came, the natives living around Silent Hill were using its originally benevolent power for ancestor communion and various healing rituals. When the Euros came, they brought with them the Order (of the Sun/Vatiel), a bunch of hermetic cultists who killed the natives and "polluted" the place for their own darker purposes. Adopting a twisted version of the natives' beliefs, they sought to use Silent Hill as a focus for a doomsday God-resurrection ritual. Performing dark rituals of torture and human sacrifice, they opened a rift to the Otherworld, a sort of hell where the regrets, anxieties, and mental traumas of those who enter it torment and kill them.

There are three layered dimensions to Silent Hill. On its surface, it's a picturesque resort town. This is the layer that normies interact with. For an unlucky few, they can cross over from this layer into the fogworld (usually when the boundary between dimensions has been thinned by cult shenanigans), an abandoned, decaying version of Silent Hill shrouded in fog where monsters formed from the Otherworld roam about. Finally, there's the Otherworld, which is a twisted, dark, personalized hell-like place accessed through the fogworld.

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>>94698025
>The simple application of the scientific method is bait

>>94698009
nta, but i wish you luck and hope people are already blowing up fireworks in your area

>>94698205
That sounds basically like Wraith without the extra step of dying, so go for it.

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>>94698043
>One book that came out several years into the line's development retroactively defines the entire line

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>>94698205
Sounds like a basic Nephandi conspiracy to erode the gauntlet using a highly active node, complete with a labyrinth run in the deep umbra.

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>>94698205
Short answer: Yes.
Slightly longer answer: Oh, hellllllls yeeeeeeaaaah.

I always saw the Otherworld as some sort of Fucked Up Umbra.
You honestly don't need much adapting to make the concept of how Silent Hill is haunted. Specifically, I am talking about the first and third games, not the second, which works slightly differently. I didn't play the other ones, so I don't know about them.
You can just grab any small town and make it Silent Hill Coded in your story, but I think subverting that concept and having your Not Silent Hill be something of a curveball so your players can't see it coming could also work.
An apartment building in a big city could work really well for that type of concept. Weird Umbral Shit can make even a relatively tiny place—when compared to a whole city—seems like it's much bigger than it actually is. Secret floors that stretch on forever and give that sensation of liminal space (coff coff Backrooms), underground garage floors that link the building to places that don't exist anymore (or never existed) etc, all of that can really scare the bejesus out of people. Having the PCs not know when they are dealing with the Supernatural side of the building or the "real" one, specially when neighbours report hearing gunshots at night when the PCs were on the Other Side etc, all of this should work really well.
If you're interested, check out Lone Survivor. It does a lot of these concepts really well.

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>>94698205
>Onions Hill m8

>>94697819
I think I remember that character. Sounded like fun. Gangrel have always been a favorite clan of mine, but they can be unwieldy in some VtM games due to their focus on the wilderness, physical might, and their general distaste for politics.

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If all water tastes like ash to a vampire as soon as it hits their tongue then wouldn't kissing be extremely unpleasant to a Vampire because of the saliva on a person's tongue tasting like ash?

>>94698468
Just bite the tongue whenever you feed, best kiss of their life plus it heals afterward

>>94698205
I had a Silent Hill like town in one of my games, it was the resting place of an ancient Losombra who had been in slumber for so long that their dreams caused the Abyss to slowly leak into the surrounding landscape.

>>94698468
Saliva isn't water, entirely. But it would be funny if the game treated it so, and some poor vamp has a feed fetish for people with gingivitis because of it.

>>94698222
Yeah, sounds exactly like a Harrowing (where a Wraith gets dragged into a labyrinth).

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>>94695373
Based.

If futanari were real, which clans would have the highest percentage of futa vampires?

>>94699594
Tzimisce, Tremere and Toreador.

>>94699594
>can't get it up outside blush of life
what's the point?

>>94699594
Nosferatu, Gangrel, and Tzimisce (so also Gargoyles, I guess)

>>94699614
>>94699705
I thought the setites would be pushing the boundaries and make the list.

>>94699734
they can make you a futa... but it will be a actual snake between your legs

>>94696459
>>94696481
Fuck off, troll, you're a dipshit with no valid arguments.

There's far less difference between CofD 1E and 2E than there is between a lot of other edition updates out there.

>>94697433
>Pseudointellectual masturbation

>>94698227
>Projection

Hey Anons, is there any way for a normal human to become Kinain? I was originally pointed to the Sorcerer Path of Alchemy, but it explicitly denies using it to do anything with fairy-power.

>>94699904
Can't Naming 5 do that?

>but it explicitly denies using it to do anything with fairy-power.
Alchemy 6 can awaken a motherfucker, alchemy 5 should be enough to become kinain. Overrule this shit.

>>94699930
>Alchemy 6 can awaken a motherfucker,
Yep, you can also become a werewolf or a vampire too. Possibly even a fallen angel/nephelim(DtF) since they aren't on the banned list(though they probably should be).
However, there's a very good reason for their inclusion on the ban list... How the hell do you the samples necessary for the potion? None of the dreaming crap has any physical... anything... for more than a few minutes at most.

>>94699904
Might be able to do that with a powerful enough Oath.

>>94699815
I wasn't analysing other editions out there, I was analysing one specific pair of editions out of a set of seven, which you would have known if you arsed yourself with reading the original posts listed under the greentext.
You are either lazy, stupid, or just a troll.
Most likely, all three of 'em.
Congratulations on possessing the Triforce of Tardness.

>>94699830
>Calculus is pseudointelectual
Lmao.
This is why I don't engage with West Coast trash.

>>94700003
>>Possibly even a fallen angel/nephelim(DtF) since they aren't on the banned list(though they probably should be).
>This nigga doesn't even drink so much mercury you spontaneously transform into a new angel, deep fry your mind the Abyss for several eternities, then possess your own body.
I don't think DtF Nephilim ever get anything resembling stats though (unlike the MtA merit which is more like just being a demigod), so go wild with those, I guess.

>>94699594
Fetishism aside, what can you do with the concept besides some weird homunculi and eugenics plot line?
>>94699753
I'm pretty sure transforming a clit into an actual snake would be a 2 dot combo power.

>>94700016
No, you just don't have any idea what a "new edition" means in TTRPGs and have written us a novel showing how fucking stupid you are.

>>94700045
The MtAA merit got updated in a post DtF mage Supplement that allowed you to be fallen origin and take 4 Apoc Form traits with a pool of 7 AF trait point in place of the usual 7 points of pacts.
The Apoc option is great because it opens up the possibility of buying better trait with XP under DtF's rules(though you only get 4 slots vs the Fallen's usual 7).

>>94699930
>Can't Naming 5 do that?
Maybe? Naming 5 is a power designed to cause fights with STs.

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>>94700045
>I don't think DtF Nephilim ever get anything resembling stats though (unlike the MtA merit which is more like just being a demigod), so go wild with those, I guess.
I'm pretty sure you can just give them the demonic form traits if you want a living tragedy. Giving them a vampire trigger but they need to eat a metric fuckton every hour or something like it.

>>94700045
>This nigga doesn't even drink so much mercury you spontaneously transform into a new angel, deep fry your mind the Abyss for several eternities, then possess your own body
The order of Hermes would approve, but also laugh at you for becoming something as inferior as an Angel when you could be A TRUE WIZARD.

>>94700047
I mean, I have an expensive and unplayable concept of a androphobic malkavian (she has auspex 1 to *smell* the testosterone of any nearby intact males; Dementation to heighten arrousal, dampen disgust, and induce psychosis; Dominate 1 to force the victim to watch sissy hypno for the previously mentioned Dementation; and Viscissitude up to 3 to adjust the flesh and bone structure), and her goal is to remove males from Kindred society, and restructure Hufemity to sacrifice males after regular breeding culls.

>>94700016
>one specific pair of editions out of a set of seven,
WoD 1/2/R, 20th, and technically 5th are a game line with 5 editions.

CofD 1e/2E are a completely separate line with the same core premises, lore elements, and mechanics.

And Exalted 1/2/3E have similar growth as CofD.

You're a dimwit with pretenses of genius.

>>94700083
>vampire trigger
Is this a V5 thing I'm too 20th to understand?

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>>94700096
Bring out the misogynistic elders who shall banish her back to the realm known as the kitchen.

>>94700122
Basically, yeah!

>>94700106
>and technically 5th
I disagree. There are too many retcons and mechanics changes for this to be part of the same line.
WtA5 even says as much.

>>94699904
> I was originally pointed to the Sorcerer Path of Alchemy, but it explicitly denies using it to do anything with fairy-power.
yeah that's from the prince of darkness mod because they wanted to have a samuel haigh "bad ass mode" where every splat beside mummy for some reason can be mixed together so you can play a fae-vampire-fera abormination, usurp a demon, awaken your kueijin powers with the help of a salubri watcher and as soon as mage is done as a splat you will also be able to gain true magic despite your undead nature with the sargon fragments all in one playthrough

to answer the question as far as i know there is no way to turn yourself into a Kinain (fae can technically do that, see below) after birth because people who try that just get the Faerie Affinity merit instead and while you can technically become a adhene upon death as human, but those guys seem to be pretty miserable
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Keremet
and need to wait till that death to gain arts

in Ars Magica House Merinita figured out how to become fully fledged true fae, but those work differently than in wod and it's kinda ambiguous if they really transform themselver or if they aren't just ritually killing themselves to be replaced with a fae
>>94699930
>Can't Naming 5 do that?
-technically- if the fae get's 10 successes
you need 5 to change supernatural fact (example given is turning a werewolf into a puppy)
and you need another 5 to make it permanent
and then it can still be dispelled at any point in time later so you better keep away from other fae, mages or just banality because the mist might just undo the transformation anyway if you st feels like it

>Alchemy 6 can awaken a motherfucker,
yeah because that's a transformation a normal human can do
alchemy 6 mentions that it can make you are mage, vampire or mummy because those all things a normal human can become in wod

>>94700065
>The MtA merit got updated
Which book?

>>94700065
I see, neat. I was going off M20 here, should have known better than that, I guess.
Know which supplement that was? I'm kinda curious, and it could serve as inspiration for cooking up my own version of Nephilim.
As someone a bit new to WoD, I found even the Nephandi book in M20 not even having a sidebar about Fallen type demons kinda weird. I get that mage probably had a lot of demon lore way before DtF was ever released and they wanted to prioritize that, but not even giving it an acknowledgement in the 'hey we had this game that you could also use for statting out demons if you want' sense I just find odd.

>>94700130
I mean, WoD5 could be called an alternate universe that's a few degrees off from the prime, but DnD diverges way more between editions.

>>94700112
No, I just used some weird phrasing to describe a frenzy trigger. like how you need to roll to resist frenzy after X/Y/Z event.

>>94698009
That's not good, Coywolves are on the rise yknow

>>94700131
>then it can still be dispelled at any point
I don't think it can actually. This isn't an ongoing effect like Metamorphosis changing someone, this is rewriting a True Name. I think your options are either getting it rewritten again or waiting out the duration.

>>94700096
Like I asked, Fetishism aside. from the character concept it looks like this whole thing feels like you want a Blood Hunt target/Serial Killer.

>>94700106
>Game is called World of Darkness
>Is not part of the World of Darkness game line
Do you understand that your very argument proves my point?
You're going out of your way to showcase just how fucking willingly stupid you are.
You're a collective of Pandas, Anon.

>>94700130
>I disagree. There are too many retcons and mechanics changes for this to be part of the same line.
True but that's easy to handwave.

>>94700190
>Total reboot
>After they closed out and finalized WoD
You're the dipshit trying to claim two editions of CofD are completely different lines.

>>94700016
>>Calculus is pseudointelectual
>He thinks he was doing calculus
You really did fail out of high school didn't you?

>>94700130
Yup.
CofD is not a follow-up of nWoD in the same manner that 5th Edition is not a follow-up of 20th anniversary or Revised.
Which the other Anon would have realised if he had read the post that established the framework of analysis that was used.
Funny how the tard rager never mentioned that part of the analysis, or how 1st Edition is also split on my framework from 2nd Edition and Revised (and grouped together with Ars Magica).
It's almost like the guy has a veiled interest in his narrative.
He doesn't even try to formulate a counterargument or anything along those lines, he just repeats the same affirmation over and over again.
He's either mentally challenged, or works in someone's marketing department lol and not a very successful one, I might add.

>>94700179
wyrd cantrips can still fail and be dispelled later the c20 corebook goes into detail how ongoing Wyrd cantrips can be weakened or fail just by being in the vicinity of a autumm person which would include naming 5

so by raw a fae reject walking past you in new york central park could turn your puppy back into a werewolf or if it just weakens them put your transformation on a timer, depending on just how far into gone the autumn person is, hopefully your st would be nice enough to tell you that your cantrip is about to fail

it's also mentioend that even invoking the Wyrd and all the cantrip you cast in that more powerful state (that makes them all wyrd effects) also get cleaned up by the mists after you are done or out of gas

so mists is a maybe and up to the st but dispelling is possible

>>94700182
If you don't get it, that's ok, anon. Just put on this cage until I can remove the poison between your legs.

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>>94700237
>CofD is not a follow-up of nWoD in the same manner that 5th Edition is not a follow-up of 20th anniversary or Revised.
Except for the part where you're meant to use books from the prior edition? And how the rules are changed in relatively minor ways and allow for easy porting? Or how the majority of rules that were changed were introduced in the prior edition itself? Or that the new edition was originally not a new addition and literally a supplement to the prior edition?

>>94700204
Yes, I wasn’t doing calculus—I was using an ontological principle from Leibniz’s philosophy, which also laid the foundation for his development of calculus.
While the development of one didn’t make it the same thing, that’s EXACTLY my point about nWoD/CofD.
Sometimes you need bait to catch a troll, and congratulations, you’ve just proven my point beautifully, yet again =]

>>94700343
>I was only pretending to be retarded

>>94700244
If you're talking about the stigma Rationalization, that only works if the Autumn person is aware of and veiwing something impossible happening in front of them.
Unless anon chose to have the "Become Kinain" power cast on him in front of an autumn sperg, he's fine.

>>94700197
Different settings/universes/timelines, to be precise.
Which you would have noticed if you had read the original posts.
Again, sometimes it takes a bit of bait to catch a troll.

>>94700353
What is a feint, Anon? If you were arguing in good faith I wouldn't have to resort to the dark arts but you forced my hand.

>>94700366
Says the troll still trying to be a psuedointellectual. >>94700343

>>94700358
as c20 autum people are just so banal that wyrd cantrips just weaken and fail around them as part of their base template
>Most Wyrd effects either fail entirely or are greatly diminished in strength simply from being in the vicinity of an Autumn Person
Stigmas only come up in the chapter after that quote and not all authumn persons have all of them so it can't refer to Rationalization

>>94700403
Repeating the same baseless accusation doesn't prove anything other than your incapacity to engage in logical discourse.
You really do work in marketing, don't you?

>>94700136
>>94700141
I just spent the last however long looking and can't figure it out. This fucking merit is reprinted in so many fucking books.
I remember the version I mentioned references both mages and sorcerers, giving 7 points of avatar Or mana as well as the Apoc options.

>>94700420
Pretty sure that's flavor text. Stigma are the actual crunch on how autumn spergs actually effect changelings and glamour.

>>94697745
>if A ≠ B, then for all x, x ∈ A if and only if x ∉ B.
Because other people might not be aware of how blisteringly retarded you are I will break it down for them.

A and B in this instance are 1e and 2e. No one thinks 1e and 2e are the same thing in the first place because they are different editions but lets roll with it. ∈ means "element" and in its usage above it means that A contains x as part of its set. The x can be anything in either set so lets use something classic like the Ventrue. If and only if means either both statements (x ∈ A and x ∉ B) are true or both are false. It's an XNOR gate if that helps.

Their shitty equation reads like this in standard English: If 1e and 2e aren't the same then a piece of content/rule/etc that is in 1e mustn't be in 2e, and vice versa.

So if 1e and 2e aren't the same then for anything you could name it should be in 1e and not in 2e (x ∈ A and x ∉ B are true) or it's not in 1e and is in 2e (x ∈ A and x ∉ B are false). But Ventrue appear in both, as do a host of other things like skills and d10s. That makes x ∈ A true while x ∉ B is false, making the if and only if also false. Which means all anon has done here is said they don't actually think they're not the same. They're arguing for the direct opposite of their actual point and doing so in much stronger terms than anyone who disagrees with them is.

Stay in school kids.


>>94700403
No no, they're achieving it.

>>94700433
>references both mages and sorcerers
Then it might not even be a mage supplement anon. You're stuck searching everything revised and V20/DAV20

>>94700428
It's not an "accusation" it's a fact.

>>94700433
Shame, I looked through a lot of the post revised but pre-M20 mage books myself, but I've had no dice either.

>>94700433
you would be looking for something between november 2002 (dtf corebook release) and 2004 that's still a lot of books, but it's not in the dtf corebook, players guide, st book or devil's due i checked the merit sections in those

but i am not sure this exists. I would like for it to be real but most sources i seen for the merit quote blood treachery which is 2000 book and it's wording is 1 to 1 the same as in m20

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>>94700492
Thanks for the verbose attempt to prove my "blistering retardation."

Let me return the favour by walking through your missteps with the patience you clearly didn’t apply to your logic.
Buckle up. This is gonna be long. It took me for fucking ever to write and review all of this on the phone but here we are.

PART UNO: Misrepresenting the Principle

You claim my use of "if and only if" means that any shared trait between core nWoD and core CofD (e.g., Ventrue, d10s) would invalidate my argument.

You're wrong.

Leibniz’s Law deals with the totality of properties defining identity.
Shared elements don't negate distinctiveness—they highlight how editions can share foundational traits while remaining separate entities.
That’s exactly the point: they’re similar enough to belong to the same family of products but distinct enough to be considered different settings/universes/timelines.

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>>94700492
Continuing from >>94700697

PART DOS: Logical Fallacies

You treat shared traits like Ventrue as proof that core nWoD and core CofD are identical.

That’s nonsense, and I don't think anybody actually thinks that, not even you.

But by using your logic, two siblings sharing DNA would make them the same person.
The point of the comparison is to highlight overlapping features while acknowledging the differences that define their separate identities.

This point is acknowledged by the premise of this very General, as we open space for all products of the World of Darkness TTRPG family.

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>>94700492
Continuing from >>94700707

PART TRES: Equation Butchery

This one almost gave my brain aggravated damage.

Almost.

See, your attempt at formalizing my argument is embarrassing.
"If and only if" doesn't mean "everything in A must be absent in B," as you claim.
It means for A and B to be truly identical, all properties (not just individual elements) must align.
The fact that core nWoD and core CofD share some properties but differ in structure, themes, and mechanics proves they’re not the same setting/universe/timeline—a point you hilariously ignored while trying to dunk on me.

>>94700602
>you would be looking for something between november 2002 (dtf corebook release) and 2004
I own them... but there are so many...
Life is pain sometimes.

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>>94700492
Continuing from >>94700715


PART CATORZE: Ignoring Key Context

Now, let’s not forget the broader argument here.
The distinction between core nWoD and core CofD lies in their tone, mechanics, and thematic shifts, not just shared or differing traits.
Keeping to your own weaksauce example, the Ventrue appearing in both doesn’t erase the mechanical divergence or structural overhaul that makes them distinct editions. The Ventrue also appears on 1st, 2nd, Revised, 20th Anniversary and 5th Edition oWoD, for example. So do d10s.

This is precisely why I referenced Leibniz’s Law: to illustrate how two entities can share enough commonality to belong to the same set (oWoD/nWoD/CofD) while differing enough to not be the same universe/timeline/setting.

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>>94700492
Finalising from >>94700724

BONUS ROUND: Overconfidence, Under-Substantiation

Your over-the-top arrogance about "breaking it down for others" betrays how little effort you put into understanding my argument.
You spent a whole paragraph smugly misinterpreting basic logic while failing to address the actual argument: core nWoD and core CofD are distinct because they diverge in key properties but retain enough overlap to remain somewhat connected. The shared traits strengthen my point, not yours.

Now, you do flatter me by saying its MY stupid equation—that’s Gottfried's own handiwork there. One of the fathers of Calculus, which you just tried to outsmart.
I think the WoD term for that is "Hubris".

As for staying in school? Maybe try taking Logic 101 next semester, Anon.

And while you’re at it, try learning to engage with the argument instead of projecting your insecurities.

I baited you, and you walked right into it.
Thanks for not only proving my point but also making it clear that you lack both the logical chops and the self-awareness to see it.

The rest of you, class, that was Troll hunting 101: get them to tear themselves apart trying to "win."

Better luck next time! =]

>>94700731
>I baited you, and you walked right into it.
>I was only pretending to be retarded and by pointing it out it's you who was wrong.
Okay, retard.

>>94700762
Calling you a layman is pretending to be retarded?

Amazing retort there buddy, you sure got me now!

>>94700718
Not to rub salt into the wound, but you might not be looking for a reprint of the merit. It could also be a sidebar with optional rules referencing the original merit.

And on that bombshell of a TED Talk, I’m calling it a night.

Try not to feed the troll into trying to disprove the law of gravity or anything Newtonian while I'm away—such enlightened moment of genius might cause the Earth to stop its rotation altogether and it would ruin New Year's Eve for everyone.

Cheers!

>>94700913
Yeah right, None of the technocrats have the arete to pull that off. The paradox would explode him for trying anyway.

>>94700697
>>94700707
>>94700715
>>94700724
>>94700731
TL;DR; full of shit.

>>94700913
No one cares. How self-obsessed do you need to be? At least use a trip if you're going to be this much of an attention hog.

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>>94700122
The Celestial Chorus commits Imam Abdul al-Isha Mohammad Assadi bin Mahatmar Hussein to this task as well

are there any good videos to teach how to use creative thaumaturgy?

2025 will be the year of the Ecstatics. Just you wait, bro. We just need to get humanity on some of that REAL good shit for them to Awaken.

>>94697746
The Lasombra are jackbooted thugs in suits, their "noblemen" look is entirely a fabrication to attempt to beat the Ventrue at their own game. While the Ventrue are Feudalists, the Lasombra are fascists, that's always how I saw the differences between the two clans. The Lasombra revised clanbook has their ancient history as nomadic raiders and not nobility for a reason.
The Ventrue are Gentry, the Lasombra are warlords.
Even then, they're supposed to be dark foils to the Ventrue, Tzimisce are the Tremere's Sabbat foil aswell.

>>94701822
>While the Ventrue are Losers, the Lasombra are winng, that's always how I saw the differences between the two clans
FTFY friendo :)

>>94699904
>There's a specific rite that allows a human to become kinfolk (only the CoG know it)
>Kinain can have their fae natures destroyed by banality if they're not careful
It's like playing fallout in reverse. The world just becomes MORE radioactive over time.

Also if you need material for Alchemy 5/6 to work with fae stuff you can just use some Dross so long as you have a changeling to give you some.

>>94701822
>The Lasombra are jackbooted thugs in suits
Thought that was Brujah.

If a sorcerer awakens and loses his paths but gains Arete 1, lorewise how long would it take for him to convert the path xp into spheres? I doubt you magically gain it immediately, you'd have to actually grind to notice the similarities between linear and true magic(k) in order to get the rebate, right?

>>94698205
>They look like monsters to him
ISHYGDDT

>>94702000
I’d rule it’d cost less XP to buy dots in Spheres until 3, and only for Spheres related to the Paths he knew before Awakening
>Teleportation = Correspondence
>Alchemy = Matter
And so on

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>>94702000
If he's at Arete 1 then his spheres are limited to just 1, as per M20's rules. He'd have to undergo a seeking before raising his spheres, just like a normal mage.
If you want to ignore that rule then I'd say up to 3 dots in sphere magic should do, appropriate to his path. Even 5 dots in sorcery is supposed to be "impressive" to an awakened mage.

>>94702000
ironically vampire has rules for that :half the exp spend on sorcery or magic can be spend on blood sorcery after the embrace
but as far as i know mage just shrugs so i would probably take the above and just adapt it for mage

but as the other guys said keep in mind Arete 1 is kinda weaksauce

>>94701859
nta but burjah as the guys who drink at a bar and complain about the goverment and get into a fight when drunk enough
while the lasombra are the guys who don't mind having a drink with the brujah but are actually in a gang or cartel and do human trafficking

>>94698043
It literally says right there that it's not lol
>hurr GMC is owod
Brilliant lmao

>>94700130
CofD is significantly more different fron nwod, so it's a different game by all the same tokens.

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>>94700928
>>94700955
>mfw you're this buttblasted over someone having bigger protagonist energy than you

Don't go away mad, Anon! You're forever welcome at my shop - you'll always get served here!

>>94702000
Somewhat sure that neither Mage Revised nor Sorcerer Revised establish that Awakening would cause you to lose your capacity to use Path Magic.
It doesn't make any sense either - if you're a Technomancer, you don't suddenly stop being able to use non-Enlightened technology once you awaken. Static Magic and Numina and True Faith should work the same way.

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>>94702507

>>94702855
you would be somewhat wrong but only revised actually has rules that say that in blood treachery of all things which says that too magic adjecent powers don't work for awakened mages so the disciplines of thaum, necromancy, Quietus and chimerstry are unsuable even if they are ghouled because they are to close to a mix of awakened and linear magic and mages apperntly can't mix magic system like that at all
>Consider this rule carved in stone. If a mage wants flame-conjuring powers, that’s what Forces and Prime are for. No exceptions.
so if you take achilli by his word then awakening yourself with alchemy 6 is actually a downgrade... for a short while

>>94701854
>Kinain can have their fae natures destroyed by banality if they're not careful
No they can't. Kinain are very clearly spelled out as immune to banality's negative effects, the issue is that the Fae around them aren't.

>>94702932
>blood treachery
Ah, so it's not said anywhere important then?

>>94702990
yeah like i said just in achilli's weird cross over duology and shits over the lore of both lines

that's why i only somewhat wrong

>>94703002
*that's why i said only somewhat wrong
sorry just having those books open makes me pop a blood vessel

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>>94702932
Soooo... a rule written on a cross-over book with VAMPIRE, written by the VAMPIRE author, talking about VAMPIRE powers on ghouled Mages, not something in Mage Revised Core nor in Sorcerer Revised Core? Pic related.

So, like I was saying.
When a nerd Awakens and starts hacking reality, his mobile phone doesn't stop working just because he's expected to learn Correspondence in the future.
Because static magic is static.
Changing the way the static parts of Reality works requires—you guessed it!—a magick spell to be cast.
This is something established since Ascension 1st Edition has been one of the pillars of how the game line works.
1st edition even labels all Coincidental Magick as Static Magic - that's its official name in 1st edition core, the term Coincidental only became its official label later. Which in general is a better description of HOW it works, but also masks the true nature of how the system works. Apples and oranges.

Very obviously, Vulgar magick was called Dynamic Magick in 1st edition.

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>>94702965
This is from Enchanted, from the section about kinain. Seems pretty clear to me. Unless there's another source which says otherwise.

>>94703031
>Soooo... a rule written on a cross-over book with VAMPIRE, written by the VAMPIRE author, talking about VAMPIRE powers on ghouled Mages, not something in Mage Revised Core nor in Sorcerer Revised Core? Pic related.

yeah that's why i mentioned the author. this is the same guy that says that most of order of hermes (or at least house tremere) was sorcerers in the dark ages while both vampire and mage dark age book says the order had a sorcerer population of zero because they refused to train any and tried to push a plot line where blood sorcery was failing because of the mage meta plot, despite the fact that sorcery wasn't failing, luckely the rest of the staff ignored that, so i don't trust this guy with any magic lore

but it is technically in a revised mage book but this was more meant to be more of a fun fact and look how stupid this guy is than a gotcha sorry if that didn't came across

>>94703148
Oh, I wasn't trying to counter-gotcha you either, I just wrote Caps for emphasis. Sorry if it came out as a bit aggressive.

We usually crap a lot om The Chaos Factory and anything Sam Haight related but usually forget that Blood Treachery is such a dumpster fire.

That being said, I wouldn't put it past the whole "Hermetics used to be all Sorcerers in the Middle Ages" being a nod to Ars Magica having been part of the WoD line.
I also wouldn't put past Revised Era WW crapping all over the Order and the Tremere specifically because they were Ars Magica's legacy.
According to Il Santo Padre, when the AM sale happened, there was a huge ass document establishing what names and elements from Ars Magica and the World of Darkness (e.g., Tremere, Order of Hermes) were to be shared by both brands in the future. Just from that description alone, we can see what a major, royal pain in the ass to deal with this particular part of the World of Darkness canon must have been.
I also think it's something that, among many other things, weighted heavily on MtAw having almost no Lore elements related to Ascension, while Requiem for example kept a lot of household names like Ventrue, Malkavian, Toreador, and Gangrel—those were never on Ars Magica.

>>94703214
>we can see what a major, royal pain in the ass to deal with this particular part of the World of Darkness canon must have been.
I also think it's something that, among many other things, weighted heavily on MtAw having almost no Lore elements related to Ascension, while Requiem for example kept a lot of household names like Ventrue, Malkavian, Toreador, and Gangrel—those were never on Ars Magica.
i am still suprised with how much white wolf got away with in dark age mage

the use the same name convention for some of the hermetic pillars, pull the "wizards call monsters fae" thing, have pocket dimensions work like in ars magica instead of mage proper and they mention that Valdaermen and nordic spirit callers work together so they are just one name drop away from being ars magica's order of odin

no name drops to non hermetic factions and no stats for any of the shared characters but still i am pretty sure some lawyer was anxious

>>94703031
When a nerd awakens and loses his soul and ability to interact in any stable way with the world or do sorcery, he loses access to sorcery, yes.
If you were able to use your phone you wouldn't have a paradigm where you phone doesn't work, but you do, alas.

>>94703262
None of the words you wrote made any sense.
Paradigm doesn't affect static reality without spellcasting unless you're talking about a Marauder.
The MEGA is right on the OP.
You have no excuse but your laziness.

If a demon Goes Loud in a situation where there are no angels in the immediate vicinity (let's say, out in a fairly rural area tracking down a false lead that has accidentally led him to a mummy cult---no angels anywhere nearby), how fast would angels/god-machine be on them?

>>94703047
>Unless there's another source which says otherwise.
You mean like C20, the updated version that changes the mechanics for Kinain entirely?

>>94699930
>>94700074
Anyone else think it's kind of fucked up that fairies can learn your True Name with a 3rd level cantrip? A lot of splats get Absolutely Wrecked by that alone, fallen especially.

>>94703615
>Nooooo new editions don't force obsolescence
>Everything is always retrocompatible
>Your old books are still good, Anon

Not the right thread, but still.

>>94703642
It's balanced because they die if they get exposed to office workers or if they sit on a metal bench.

>>94703668
me when i show a fairy my tax forms and they wither up and die.

>>94703671
*giggles in Syndicate

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>https://www.blackchantry.com/2024/12/31/vampire-the-eternal-struggle-product-roadmap-2024-2025/
>baba yaga being replaced by new card because "muh sensibilities" Paradox still trying to shove down people's throat
Sigh... It's so tiring...

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>>94703715
who the flying fuck is Gorgo?

>>94703728
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhl-Cs1-sG4
gorgo!

>>94703728
One of the many 4th Gen Nictuku
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Gorgo
In other words: Blank slate NPC for ST to play with.

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>>94703715
Keanu Reeves is Baba Yaga now.
Has been for almost 10 years now.
You don't wanna fuck with John Wick.

>>94703715
>Nothing planned past Q2 2025
>End of Fiscal Year is Q2
>Bloodlines two is set to release in "the first half of 2025"
>First half means at most Q2

The stars are aligning.

>>94703768
And with that a rain of comets shall strike down Paradox's office in Sweden.

>>94703642
>>94703668
Wait, The fallen coming back is Very bad. The technocrats might have fucked up the ecosystem by mass genociding the only natural predator for the angel of the apocalypse...

>>94703316
>Paradigm doesn't affect static reality without spellcasting
>without spellcasting
Gee retard, I wonder why the thing that cucks your spellcasting cucks your spellcasting
Really mysterious

>>94703751
>what folklore do you know
>none
>okay, let's call him baba yaga
>okay
John Wick remains as one of the dumbest written set of movies.

>>94703650
Depends. Some things got updated, others require more books from earlier editions. C20 is sparse on detail for Kinain, so you still need Enchanted if you want things like fae gifts, but other things got updated or retconed.
The cross-compatibility is engineered to maximize profits. You need the new books for updates to old mechanics, but you also need old books for the full scope of unupdated mechanics and lore. It's a ploy to for oldfags into buying newshit and newfags into buying old shit.(all of this also goes to show how retarded second gen White-Wolf was and now Paradox is at business. They both tried to sink the WoDs original goldmine by ending cross-compatibility).

>>94703820
>ultrageneric action movie boiled to it's bare essentials
>wow this movie is so dumb I can't believe they would make such obvious references!
You paper crown will be arriving in the mail in 7-21 business days, King Midwit.

>>94703831
I think its more Baba Yaga is like a woman, an old crone with a chicken legged house so like symbolically what does she have to do with Wick? She's like the stereotypical flesh eating witch while he's a badass murder assassin. What's the connection?

>>94703837
Boogeyman figure with russian origins. That's it.
Be naughty and Baba Yaga's gonna get you.

>>94703031
>Soooo... a rule written on a cross-over book with VAMPIRE, written by the VAMPIRE author, talking about VAMPIRE powers on ghouled Mages, not something in Mage Revised Core nor in Sorcerer Revised Core? Pic related.
Lets also not forget that this is the same universe where gamelines disagree about basic mechanics and lore.
For example: Can hunters be possessed by demons?
>HtR: Infernals
Hard No, with one incredibly rare exception. Not unless the hunter is a powerful extremist that sold their soul at the moment of their ascension can a demon influence a hunter.
>DtF: Storytellers Companion
Hell Fucking Yes! Not only is it possible, it's fucking Easy! Hunter make the best and cheapest means of summoning the Dukes from hell!

>>94703831
>bare essentials

You mean an action movie about a hidden world with lore that borders on being its own mythology, complete with archaic rules, secret societies within secret societies, and magic armor and weapons, but written by guys who with only about enough intelligence to be writing for a dudebro audience who clapped vigorously when the dog survived in Independence Day.

>>94703851
The thing is, there is an actual Russian boogeyman called Babay.
Calling John Wick "Baba Yaga" is kind of on the level of giving some female hacker the nickname "Merlin" because you think "Morgan le Fay" might be too obscure for the audience.

>>94703825
To be fair with owod they had reached a pointed where they had a book for pretty much everything possible, so I can kinda see why the wanted a reset. Did it make financial sense to do so? No.

>>94703820
>Watching one of the best action scene montages of all time for the plot
I suppose you go to McDonalds and ask for a Sallad too. Or goes to a whorehouse to get some hugs.

>>94703812
>Awakening makes you lose your capacity to INTERACT with a cellphone
>Interacting with an element of static reality is the same as casting a spell
Use your fingers to type and your brain to formulate answers instead of doing both with your ass, Anon.
You're a collective of pandas.

>>94703946
>Calling John Wick "Baba Yaga" is kind of on the level of giving some female hacker the nickname "Merlin" because you think "Morgan le Fay" might be too obscure for the audience.
Stealing that Virtual Adept concept.

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>>94704499
>Checked

>>94703946
Pic related.

>John Dee's life changed rapidly when he received an invitation from Vienna in 1607. The Tremere showed him the power of Thaumaturgy and – seduced by the promise of immortality and a form of magic without the risk of Paradox – he was accepted as a member of Clan Tremere.
>Thaumaturgical Paths: Elemental Mastery 5, Movement of the Mind 5, Path of Blood 5, Spirit Manipulation 5, Lure of Flames 4, Weather Control 3
I think he got fuckall on this particular exchange. lmao

>>94704622
it's even worse the book mentions that he is super into ritual to the point where he knows ALL rituals included in the Thaumaturgy discipline

but you don't do rituals in public, so uhm wtf was your problem john?

>>94704699
I think he just really sucked at brewing immortality potions or whatever it is that Hermetics do to extend their lifespan.

>>94704774
Mages can only extend their lifespans so far. After a few centuries, immortality potions won't work anymore. That's why the Tremere had to become vampires in the first place.

What books and chapter have the ranks and positions of a mage consilium. Looking for cofd books besides the boston one.

>>94704811
John Dee was embraced when he was like 70 though. It's not like he'd been living for centuries before this.

>>94704833
At 70, he's probably old enough to notice that his immortality spells are imperfect and only stalling for time. Between a permanent solution to life's biggest problem and the ability to not one day fucking explode because somebody saw him doing magic, waiting seems like an unnecessary risk.

>>94704774
well he was one of the quicksilver peddlers wasn't he? so yeah he probably sucked a potions

>>94704811
Tremere (the guy, not the clan) is very clearly Voormas. Their motivations are the same, and goals are the same. Voormas essentially exists because having the Big Bad from Mage be a stupid little Lick (sorry Lawnchairfags, it is what it is) would cause a giant clusterfuck.

It's not a problem as big as having an entire setting/universe/timeline where its many moving parts don't talk to one another, but that's neither here nor there.

Ultimately, proper metaplot management and tight editorial control weren't cost-effecient, and that's why there's so much Redundancy in the World of Darkness

>>94704811
>Mages can only extend their lifespans so far.
Unless they take a 2 point merit. Mage immortality isn't actually that uncommon, it's just that living long enough to even realize you're immortal definitely is. This is the world of darkness after all.

>>94704811
>Not wanting to "format your computer" from time to time
>Not longing to experience the joys of childhood and parental love again
>Not looking forward to falling in love for the first time again, experiencing the Timeless Classics like The Godfather Part I and II or listening to the good Pink Floyd albums for the first time again, holding your firstborn in your arms for the first time again etc
>Never experiencing the wonder of the natural liberation of the DMT stored in your brain
>Being This Much Of A Pansy that you're scared you can't accomplish everything you have accomplished once again if Need Be
>Having so little self-awareness that you're scared of having restarting clean slate, clean conscience
>Being this much of a control freak that you can't trust the Universe to sort things out for you

The Euthanatos Do Nothing Wrong.

>>94705091
My favorite Euthanatos are the ones that go "Yeah... your karmic debt is super fucked so you're definitely not attaining Buddhahood in this lifetime so let me do you a favor and send you through the Samsara so you can try again. Better luck next time!"
It's just such an inversion of the buddhist mindset, but also makes a lot of sense. It also sort of parallels the Jizo "self-sacrifice" story by denying themselves Buddhahood so others can attain it.

>>94705091
>Being this much of a control freak that you can't trust the Universe to sort things out for you
To be fair, this universe does a very shit job of sorting anything out.
>Avatars started manifesting because the Psychopomps stopped doing their jobs correctly
>Vampires exist because god fucked up his curse
>The Wyrm is out of control because the garous fucked up their one job
>Imagination is dying because the old fae discovered nukes and didn't understand the concept of "Long Term Consequences"
>The sixth great maelstrom happened because humanity wasn't much better about the above
>The fallen are escaping hell because god did a shit job locking the door
There are plenty of reason to Not trust things to sort themselves out.

>>94705091
>Being this much of a control freak that you can't trust the Universe to sort things out for you
Nigga that's all Mages. Including the Chakravanti.
>Am I going to let the Universe sort things out for the Wheel?
>Nah bitch it be my holy duty to pop a cap in a nigga's ass to move the Wheel, yo

How much a merit that alows you to ignore the requirements for other merits or powers should cost?

>>94705201
a blowjob or a large amount of pizza

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Has anyone here actually ran or played Midnight Circus? I'm asking because it's a such a crossover clusterfuck of ideas that it's sounds like a nightmare to properly do for an ST.

>>94705254
>a blowjob or a large amount of pizza
Thats a given,

>>94705201
3 dots and a delibitating effect? Or a free cost for an negative effect per dot? That and pineapple on pizza

>>94705137
The universe in the World of Darkness TTRPG, like any other TTRPG, only manifests itself actively when you are playing it.
It might be All Fucked on Session 0 but if it's still All Fucked by Session 25... well, you can always start again from scratch with a new chronicle.
The end is the beginning is the end is the beginning. The cycle never ends.

>>94705164
You, too, are a part of the universe. Your actions are the actions of the universe too. As a Mage, you play an important role in shaping the universe.
Trusting the Universe to sort things out implies you're gonna pull your weight and do your part =]

>>94705201
Did you have anything specific in mind?

>>94704495
Awakening (in Mage the ASS) lobotomizes you and effectively destroys your soul, yes.
Sorry that that hurts your feelings, I guess. Cultivate some static and you won't have any anymore.

>>94705291
>3 dots and a delibitating effect?
That was my initial guess.
>>94705329
I wanted a mechanic for Proximi to emulate other powers and merits. for example, for 3 dots they get the ability to buy a Fae Mount from CtL or for 1 dot they get to buy Sleepless from PtC.
Each hand wave merit is tied to another.

>>94705281
It's basically a trial-by-fire for any ST that once to do the 2e style "One World of Darkness" campaigns. If you can't run midnight circus, you are not able to ST crossovers yet.

>>94705201
That already exists anon, it's called "Infernalism" and there's a 7 point merit, "Laham", that lets you dip your toes in for free...

>>94705588
come on you can't just advertise infernalism as a fix it all solution.

it would completely crash the market if everyone found out!

`nother dumb mage question. How many consilia would y´all put in new england? Kinda feel like Massachusetts should have one or two more, though much less powerful than the one in Boston. With the other states having a maximum of 2 and while I´m feeling petty, Rhode Island answer to one of the neighboring consiliums. Allthough it feels like Awakening 1e does have less on more ground while in 2e it´s the other way around.

>>94705616
Infernalism solves all problems at the low low cost of your soul!
So what are you waiting for?! Sell it to me! Give it to me! NOW!

>>94700718
Okay, I haven't found what I was looking for, but in looking through the timeline of releases I found WtO20 was being developed and was released alongside V5. Puts it into perspective why it was so shit.

>>94705616
There's infinite demand with limited supply, so the soul-market is safe.
However, having Infernalism become common knowledge would mean more people become like Encyclopedianon from a few threads back and learn how to get free investments on hell's dime. We do not need more Solomons running around.

>>94705622
>>94705653
that's exactly it! don't sell your souls people! if you sell your soul you are capital F Fucked and you will only get powers the demon needs you to have

sell other people's souls, yes you can do that! or trade powers for services

>>94704812
IIRC MtAw 1e corebook has all what you need to build a Consilium.

>>94705620
Boston Unveiled has this answer for you. Only Boston has a Consilium, meanwhile all other places are either domain of few apostates or cabals linked to Boston.
>With the other states having a maximum of 2
What are you planning? A roadtrip Mage adventure?

>>94705692
Been obsessed with having a complete cofd new england setting. While I want to play one day in it, I want to build it first.

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>>94705295
>>94705323
>Me, who've wandered through the four corners of the World in a Seeking
>It was through a dream that He came to me

>Sometimes you enquire me
>Why does it seems like I hide
>Barely ever show any Love
>Nor stay smiling by your side

>You think about me all the time
>Eat me, spit me, and leave me
>Maybe you do not understand
>But today I will show you

>I am the shine of the stars
>I am the shade of the moon
>I am the matters of life
>I am the fear of loving too soon

>I am the fear of the weak
>The power of imagination
>The bluff of the player
>I am, I was, I will

>I am what you sacrifice
>The flagrant wrong-way sign
>The blood in the eye of the Vampire
>And the curses that you align

>I am the flame that ignites
>I am the light that won’t remain
>I am the edge of the chasm
>I am the All
>And the Nothing again

>Why do you ask me questions?
>You won't see through your inquire
>That I am forged of the earth
>Of air, of water, and fire

>You have me every day
>But doesn't know if it is worth the fee
>Do know that I am in you
>But you, are not in me

>Of the tiles, I am the roof
>The ball in the baseball glove
>The letter "A" bears my name
>Of all dreams, I am love

>I am the housewife
>Looking for produce that's cheap
>I am the hand of the butcher
>I am shallow
>Broad
>And deep

>I am the fly in the soup
>And the shark's ravenous bite
>I am the eyes of the blind
>And the blindness of the sight

>Yeah, but I am the bitter of the tongue
>The mother, the father, and the grandpa
>The child that hasn't yet been
>The begging, the end, and the in-between
>The begging, the end, and the in-between
>I am the begging, the end, and the in-between
>I am the begging, the end, and the in-between

https://youtu.be/2Xc-Yll4xc0?si=jF_vQCp2amEYhY0y

>>94703773
Comets are made of ice. If they enter the atmosphere, they disintegrate completely, not that it's a common occurrence.

Would make for a hell of a sight, though.

>>94705588
The point is not to give people powers, the point is to allow them to grow in a certain way later on.

>>94705671
That's actually the plot of Midnight Circus too! So coincidentally topical.

>>94706248
it's also mentioned in rites of blood and devil's due in it's explaination on how to be a infernalist without being a idiot and is presented as the norm in the Dark Ages Companion

Someone help me understand Gangrel, and how do I write them as NPCs or even PCs. Are they just dirty animals that wanna hang out in parks and jump people for blood?

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>>94705281
I knew I recognized that artstyle! Such a good comic.
>>94705515
I'm gonna have to look into it then.

>>94706300
They're typically deep-rural people that have a hardcore survivalist mindset. Think redneck bear grills or doomsday preppers.

Why are most games offered in the CofD Discord have a fee to join?

>>94706300
let's look at how the guys embrace: first they look for someone who is out at night and is not afraid of the dark, second they don't offer a choice and third they leave their childe alone to fend for themselves and only accept those as gangrel who surrive the first few weeks to months alone (it's not common for their sires to never come back to pick you up)

later of course there is more stuff like their clan meeting around a bonfire where modern skalds tell stories and such but for the young gangrel in the city all you need to keep in mind is that they got embraced violently, possibly even illegally, and been taught to not rely on other vampires for their surrival

how does the character feel about that? are they resentful over not having a mentor? would they try to avenge themselves if they would ever find their sire? or do they think that the freedom this kind of embrace offers is greatest thing ever in comparision to how a ventrue who have to learn for years before they are fully accepted as members of the clan or how the tremere's are forced to move to their chantry? do they think vampires that had a mentor would have been too weak to make without said mentor or do they think those are the lucky ones? would they accept a non gangrel mentor? or does this go against the whole "i managed alone so far" mentality that got them this far? if the later then why join a cotierie?

>>94706734
>Why are most games offered in the CofD Discord have a fee to join?
I guess they expect some cash in case you are too autistic to actually play or something.

>>94706734
I guess it's just supply and demand. STs are in demand, people are willing to pay for it, so the free market is doing its thing and here we are. It also kinda incentives you to play and not drop after one or two sessions or show up only twice a year when you feel like it.

Or, if you're more cynical, you can say that they're whoring themselves for money. "Why most meetings offered in the hook-up discord have a fee to join?" Because they're posted by prostitutes.

>>94706891
The hobby is dominated by shills like it's a plague.
For example, you see someone with a positive opinion on Fifth Edition, there's a 19 in 20 chance they either monetise their content or are trying to. This isn't social media engagement, it's social media networking. And while the problem isn't exclusive to Fifth Edition, it's probably the line I've seen with the worst ratio of shills-to-legitimately-engaged-users.
Those people are all in for a Rude Awakening very soon.

Howdy
I'm planning on running a HTV campaign and I plan on having tier one hunters go against a vampire
I'm making him to be a potency 3 monster and I am using the Night Stalker book as well.
I'm not planning on making him too combat focused, but I am wondering if potency 3 would be too hard for a party of 3-4 hunters

>>94698009
I'm still worried about your cats.
Did they come back?

>>94707275
Potency anything is a huge boost in combat. You might want to go with Fortitude or Celerity instead, or that vampire is going to yank out spines after punching through torsos.

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>>94707373
Potency in HTV is just a general term for how stronger a monster is

>>94707275
>>94707389
Depends on how you build them, and how your PCs are built. While dread powers can be very strong, 3-4 capable combatants can jump the everloving fuck out of way more than you might anticipate. If your PCs have good fighting ability but bad will and/or social acumen, a monster with a lot of social powers will run circles around them and the difficulty will be more about getting into a proper fight with the monster, rather than overcoming them in a test of arms.

Some friendly advice from a lot of running HtV
>Know your players.
>Give your monsters good dice pools to hit, but meh damage modifiers. This way the PCs feel challenged and like the monster can actually hurt them, but the likelihood of just one-hitting a player character is fairly low.
>Numbers advantages are huge, and so are sneak attacks. This goes for both players and monsters. If a monster is to be encountered alone, make it some combination of tanky and hard to sneak up on. Don't be afraid of shitter potency one or even mortal toady minions to pad out encounters with less fighty monsters.
>If the PCs have a cracked idea that isn't totally stupid, roll with it. It goes a long way to help them feel like clever, gritty underdogs, and it isn't hard to come up with custom dice pools and actions.
>Always give the non-combat people something to do in a fight.
>If you've horribly miscalculated the strength of a monster, either under or over, don't freak out, it'll happen. Throw a plausible, non-asspully twist that either blunts the overpowered creature's attack temporarily, giving the players an opportunity to escape or focus on a weakness or gives the monster an advantage/chance to escape.
>If things don't go to plan, that's okay. What's important is having fun and if the PCs surprise you with how they take down an enemy, don't try to fight that. If they're losing horribly, remember that there are things other than death that can serve as a consequence for failure.

Happy new year, /WoDg/!

>>94707593
Same shit, different year.

>>94707593
Happy new year! Gonna be real, been a while since I've had a good obsession so I'm glad you guys are here to share it. Hope for many more (and good games to run and join)

>>94707389
Not gonna lie, you can make a combat monster out of a potency 3 character so keep track of what you add and maybe run a simulation.
>>94707593
Happy New Year!

>>94705620
Mage (Aw) tends to assume that people aren't super tied to cities in general, I think. You can probably have as many or as few consilliums as you want, since normally most travellers are floating around in abstract space and don't really have a permanent presence where they can be contacted at will.

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Happy New Year, have some pregnant werewolf titties.

Happy New Year to /WoD/! I've been coming here on and off for almost ten years, and I almost always enjoy the conversation. I think very highly of you all, and wish you all peace and happiness. Don't forget: it's not racist if they're a Dreamspeaker and you say it's just their paradigm!

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>>94707570
>>94708119
Howdy
Thank you for the input
I’m having my vampire be a breath stealing suicide victim brought to life after death breathes air into him
I intend him to be some occult researcher who’s looking into one of the god machines infrastructure
The hunters are after him because one of his victims comes back as a ghost and now is terrorizing a bridge to gain power to kill him
Probably gonna start the hunters off with a ghoul first through

First post of 2025 to say Toreadors rule!!!

>Year of the Snake
The Garou better watch out.

Blessing of having cool players. Since I couldn't move from home, I improvised and repurposed Alice is Missing for the WoD. Was rough around the edges, but didn't work half bad actually.
Poor Alice had her first change as a garou, turns out...
One good thing of the format is reading the log is pretty fun, with the mapping of data points injected into the game and how it mutates.

Anyway, happy new year anons.Hope you have a good time.

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>>94708659

>>94711042
Damn, the Setite tree climbing competition is wild.

>>Year of the Snake
Every anon becomes a snek. Including (you).
Thankfully, you can choose a snek bloodline - or go with the main clan.
What do you choose?

>>94711088
Daitya, Anon is right, Chimerstry is broken as fuck.

How much experience would a human who is a post-New Dawn Promethean probably have?

>>94711106
Funny thing about the Daitya: the wiki has been (incorrectly) listing Sadhana as in-clan for them for so long that my whole group assumed that was the case. One guy even made a Daitya PC he never got to play based on that.

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>>94703715
It's no big deal, people who play the card will keep playing it under new name. And Paradox being extra cautious about not offending Russia makes plenty of sense with WW debacle still fresh in memeory.

>>94711116
>How much experience would a human who is a post-New Dawn Promethean probably have?
about 30 years of supernatural bullshit and a month's worth of human reference.

>>94711125
the white wolf wiki in general needs more and better references to sources a lot of the text and claims there regardless of truth or not are completely unsourced

>>94711388
That's true.
I do think the Daitya work better with Sadhana instead of Serpentis, so there was an upside to that.

>Between August 2000 and May 2002 more than 1,000 ancient books went missing from the monastery library. Stanislas Gosse, a book collector, stole the books after finding an old map showing a secret entrance into the library. The route was not easy, however, involving climbing up exterior walls, a steep staircase and a secret chamber. A mechanism then opened the back of one of five cupboards. The disappearance of so many books over such a length of time confused the librarian, the monks and the police, with Gosse finally being caught by closed-circuit television cameras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Sainte-Odile_Abbey#Secret_passage

>>94711454
based
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/19/france.paulwebster
>guy only got 18 months of suspended prison time for that and they still haven't found all the books
>said he was driven by pure passion for the priceless books
>It may appear selfish, but I felt the books had been abandoned. They were covered with dust and pigeon droppings and I felt no one consulted them any more
>Inside the library, Gosse spent hours by candlelight picking out volumes, some of which he stored in the attic.
>they wanted him to continue as a teacher, a request granted by the court. They have also told him he can come back to the library - but only through the front door.
very based

>>94711088
For me, it's the Daitya.

>>94711454
>>94711546
Absolutely based.

>>94711546
>Gosse was so confident he left a rose on the main entrance door to tease Father Donius after a particularly successful visit.

>>94711454
>>94711546
That reeks of Tremere to me.

>>94712011
Based Tremere.

>>94711895
Did the monastery actually improve their care for their library after that?

>>94712308
Yes.
>Cette mésaventure a permis de mettre en lumière le trésor que constituait la bibliothèque et a conduit le monastère à renforcer la sécurité du lieu, la préservation des ouvrages tout en y permettant l'accès17.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbaye_de_Hohenbourg#Anecdote_sur_le_passage_secret_de_la_biblioth%C3%A8que

>>94711454
>>94711546
>>94712352
Faggot monks got schooled

>>94712352
A rare story with a Happy Ending, then. Neat!

>>94694822
friend wants to run a game of H5, anyone played it before? how did it go?

purely regarding the name, i will never not love that it is Hunter: the Reckoning 5th edition despite only having one edition beforehand

>>94712645
It's not really Reckoning anymore. The Imbued are gone, it's like Hunters Hunted or Vigil 2E with shittier mechanics and only Tier 1 (street cell) level play.

>>94712645
H5 is a bad waste of time if you're a fan of WoD. It'd be better to use an earlier edition.

>>94712645
It's honestly more HtV than HtR unfortunately. Well, it's like HtV if HtV was shallower, narrower, and also bad.

>>94712695
you mean the one earlier edition? it's not like there's Revised or H20 :P

also crappy WoD is still some WoD and i haven't played anything since April. plus i have a crush on him.
>>94712688
yeah i know :( but i don't wanna rock the boat

>>94712710
>but i don't wanna rock the boat
Maybe you should.

>>94712738
what would i even say? he's already sent all the stuff we need and it sounds like he's a decent way through planning it and he already has other people on board

>>94712746
Well, in that case just enjoy the ride.
Where is he going to set the game?

File: file.png (265 KB, 474x681)

265 KB PNG

>>94712806
he hasn't said yet. last game we played in before he moved away (this game is gonna be online unfortunately) was set in Ottawa, so maybe this one might be, a lot of the same players are returning, so idk maybe some references to what our vampires have been up to since could happen :P. but chances are it'll be set somewhere in Canada.

also i'm reading the sourcebook for the first time and this art is just. do you think she's dating the solo poly hijabi amputee?

>>94712816
You definitely should make a wheelchair-bound hunter.