New Dawn Edition>Previous Thread>>94694822>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>WoD5 Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttps://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttps://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionsWhat are your plans for games in 2025?
>>94713896>What are your plans for games in 2025?I am running a short Beast Chronicle in a few days. Hopefully this Frankenstein of a story actually holds up.
>>94713920>I am running a short Beast Chronicle in a few days.Oh boyWhat's the story?
I wanna ST again.Mage Revised, in specific. It's been too long already. With my self-imposed exile from All Things WoD being over, it's time to hop back on that pony.I am also cooking a little something-something for the Public At Large, I wanna see if I can release a demo of it before January ends.
>>94712816friend wants to run H5, I read the sourcebook today, extremely disappointed. so one of the "drives" mentioned is Envy. you become a hunter because you want to force someone to make you supernatural or something. and they mention that one of the "archetypes" for faithful is basically an independent ghoul. and vampire blood (and consuming it) is brought up multiple times, but what it does to a hunter that consumes it is just. not mentioned. this just generally feels like it'd be unfun.what would be the best way to suggest that we play HtV 2e or HtR first edition without sounding unappreciative or demanding?the insistence that you are le epic righteous underdog is so hamfisted and goes direcrlt
>>94713984Fuck, forgot to add >TQ but you Anons Got It.
>>94713985>you become a hunter because you want to force someone to make you supernatural or somethingMakes sense to me.
>>94713985>>94714015Isn't that how Dracula canonically became a Vampire in the World of Darkness? Capturing a Vampire and forcing him to Embrace him.I've read about it in a magazine more than 20 years ago, so take this for what it is.
>>94714022I remember that being the case, yes.
>>94714022Dracula essentially played everyone for fools, he forced Lambrach to embrace him after staking him then diablerized Lambrach's sire.
>>94713896>What are your plans for games in 2025?Local play every 2 weeks, showing up at every tourney within reasonable travel distance, and if life goes well European Championship in October.
>>94713896>What are your plans for games in 2025?Well I'm running a Mage chronicle at the moment. But I also have friends who want to try Werewolf and Changeling.So I'm considering giving my old Vampire players a call and see if I can run Midnight Circus later this year.Will I be able to handle 10+ players? Probably not... but you bet your ass I'm going to try.
>>94714015>>94714022sorry, i worded that poorlyi like the idea of the drive! it's just that that's a huge thing to include, and then not do *anything* further to describe how it plays out or any mechanical impacts of drinking vampire blood or anything
>>94714079I confess I did not arse myself to read Reckoning 5th Edition. My book came slightly damaged from Renegade's webstore which was a major turn off for me, and it was one of the Last Straws that broke the camels back around the time when I decided to go into Exile some years ago, and thus, I never got to read it.What do you think about the book? Would you be so kind as to give it a small review here?
>>94714069My biggest group as an ST was 8 players. Back then, we used to play from Sundow to Sunrise over the weekend, and I tried to time at least 45 mins of Quality ST Time for each player during those long sessions, and to keep as many of them together for scenes to avoid leaving anyone stranded with nothing to do for too long.I'd do a lot of context hopping, where one group of players was doing one thing in one scene and another was doing something else, whenever any of the groups hit any sort of challenge that required coordination among them. That'd give 'em time to think things through and sort out their strategies in "off". The upside was that it made for a decently efficient use of our time, the downside was that people weren't involved or invested on any scene where they weren't a part of, and meta-gaming ran rampart, as nobody stayed in character during their downtime. If any singular player weren't involved in a group scene, they'd check out until it was their time to play and that Sucked for Everyone.It is very challenging, and since Midnight Circus is supposed to be a challenge to ST due to all the crossovering, I'd recommend either downsizing the group to a more manageable size, or splitting the group in two and running short sessions with each while the other group is doing something else IRL, like playing some Smash Bros or cooking or whatever else you guys do. Just don't let anyone get drunk when they're not playing, and things should go Mostly Fine.
>>94714106it suffers from the stuff anything published by paradox suffers from — it has no clue what it wants to be. it's exclusively geared to street level play, which would be fine, except it doesn't do a good job of fleshing out what that's like. combat rules are barely more detailed than in VtM. it says tracking should be about 75% of the time spent hunting, and then doesn't really give you a good idea of what that would look like.the Edges suck. one of them is "owns a domesticated animal", another is "owns a drone". most of the edges are things that feel like merits, like "knows where to get weapons", "easy access to any sort of vehicle", and others that legitimately feel like they should just be dice rolls without an edge. one of the perks contained in the Beast Companion edge is "can issue complex commands to your domesticated animal", which honestly feels more like a margin of success on an Animal Ken roll than a Hunter Discipline Perk. there are some supernatural ones, but they basically amount to feeling if there's the supernatural around you, warding off the supernatural while standing still and holding an object, and resisting mental effects. which are cool! i like all of these. but they leave you wanting more, and they feel like they were only put in in an attempt to please fans of H1 (which they never could).the book makes numerous references to drinking vampire blood, some hunters wanting to become a monster, etc. and then gives absolutely nothing about it past the mention that it's a thing that happens. not even a paragraph of flavour on how that might manifest in play. that's the one that upsets me the most. one of the 7 "drives" that a hunter could have is Envy of supernatural abilities, saying that you hunt to gain supernatural power from your targets, but again, no mention of this is made. One of the suggested archetypes is that you drink vampire blood in the name of God, but what this does to you? crickets.
>>94713939>What's the story?Urban fantasy gang wars and lovecraftian Rube Goldberg machines.Hopefully the players, who fequent this god forsaken place, WILL SEND ME THEIR CHARACTERS SO I CAN INCORPORATE THEM INTO THE GAME PROPERLY. = ]
>>94714184Sup, bro. It's me, L. I'm playing as a Rapist Beast. I'll send you the sheet later.
>>94714218Thank u, I don't want to give one guy all the protagonism because he send his backstory first.
>>94714174Hmm.Very interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to write and sharing your opinions with us.It seems like the book expects you to have read V5 but also has all this Weird Stuff That Should've Been A Die Roll, which seemingly makes Hunters very incompatible with Vampires from V5... which is kind of weird because the game seems to expect you to have read the other monster splat books to know how they work.As for the Street Level Play, I think this is a creative mandate to make the all the game lines play in a specific manner. From what I heard M5 (if such a Bad Idea ever comes out) was supposed to be completely focused on Street Level Stuff. W5 from my understanding, also de-emphasises Umbral play and Spirits quite a bit, probably for the same reason.I get the feeling this was done to facilitate or incentivise people to play LARPs of those games, which, for obvious reasons, get a little complicated to run once you start going away from the usual Vampire scenery.This would also be a viable strategy for facilitating video games, as Urban Assets are relatively easy to find pre-made or model when compared to anything you'd find in the Umbra or in the Shard Realm of Forces (aka Mars). . But considering the current IP holders didn't plan for asset reusability between video games, like, at all, that's more of me doing some wishful thinking than a real theory. It's not a dumb strategy on paper, but since it very clearly did not pay off, I can't say it's a smart one eitherMaybe at some point this was the idea, but when White Wolf AB was dissolved and everything turned into Licensed Titles, that ship sailed. And seemingly, it is about to sink, but we'll see about that when BL2 releases—or rather, IF it releases.
>>94714174H5's biggest issue is that it isn't HtR like it advertised, it's hunters hunted with HtR's terminology taken for no reason. It even requires info from V5 like a supplement would.On top of that, it's like the writers wanted to turn HtR into Vigil, but never actually read any of the vigil books. It gets triply annoying for long-time WoD fans because OWoD had all the elements necessary for a Vigil style game. There are multiple numina-based factions other than the imbued with modern Inquisitors from the Society of Leopold, Arcanum Sorcerers, Shih Martial Artists, Demon-Hunter-X Cyborgs, and Psychic/Mediums sprinkled here or there to make things even more complex. Each of these also has their own sub-factions and overlaps with major supernatural factions in mage and vampire as well.It's so much wasted potential in one fucking package.
>>94714308>to facilitate or incentivise people to play LARPs of those gamesIn the internet age, during a isolation crisis...Why is paradox so fucking retarded?
>>94714308>we'll see about that when BL2 releases—or rather, IF it releasesIt's definitely going to release, but the writing has been on the wall for half a decade as far as the state it'll release in and the reception it'll be released to. CEOs don't do damage control on a product they think is going to be a hit...
>>94714308>I get the feeling this was done to facilitate or incentivise people to play LARPs of those games, which, for obvious reasons, get a little complicated to run once you start going away from the usual Vampire scenery.It would make sense, considering that after Paradox took the reigns, the writing team was staffed by a cadre of Swedish VtM LARPers whose entire motto was "play to lose". Most of them got purged after the Chechen Gay Genocides book incident killed White Wolf for good, but holdouts still remain (Karim Muammer, for instance, was promoted by Paradox to lead developer for WoD as a a whole)
>TQHopefully finishing my Sabbat game so I can run the last part of my trilogy which involves ancillae who are secret servants of an Archon assigned to oversee Manila. The city has been balkanized thanks to a lesser War Of Princes since the prince was assassinated and the contenders blamed each other for his murder. (But it's just an excuse to rule the princedom)The war caused a lot of kindred casualties even those that refuse to participate in the war. While the Cam of that city was too busy with their infighting, the Sabbat who were the former holders of the city launched a reconquista. To make things complicated, Anarchs and some Eastern kindred decided to take a piece of their territory for themselves.A justicar was pissed to hear about the easily preventable war that she ordered a ceasefire among the contenders or face consequences before the Cam lose more territory. I imagine the starting point of the chronicle is in the conclave.The city also has it's dark secrets like the old prince being the pawn of his seneschal whose a Lasombra antitribu and the leader of a secret cult to his Antediluvian.
I would've liked H5 a lot more if they didn't pussy out of retconning the Imbued to never existing but instead have them become antagonists we have to hunt now as well ala slashers in Vigil.Like, it would've been so cool to hunt down your old PCs who have gone mad because of the imbuing because of the possible loss of the messengers (or maybe the messengers always intended this?) But no, we don't get any of that and instead we get this Vigil ripoff that's REALLY interested in the SEA region for some reason. I do like the split between personal EXP and party EXP though but that's probably just straight imported from Vigil
>>94715381>I do like the split between personal EXP and party EXP though but that's probably just straight imported from VigilLike all good rules, it's from nwod (HtV1e)>M20 is OPPExplains a lot lol
If you want to play hunters, just play HtV. There are extremely few redeeming elements in H5.
Have you ever played as a caitiff? If you're an ST, how often do you introduce them as NPCs, and do you have any memorable ones? They occupy such an odd space, there since the very beginning but almost forgotten.
>>94716445Please stop trying to start edition wars.
>>94716518Being Caitiff in Camarilla sucks, you're second class citizen and can't really do squat about it. At least in Sabbat you have that slim chance of upward social mobility.
>>94713896I want to turn my VtR game that fell through due to it being a bit overambitious and flaky players into a story. I need to do a bit of reverse engineering because a lot of the plot threads and NPCs are intended to interact with the PCs rather than exclusively one-another.I'd also like to run DtD sometime but it's rather intimidating.
>>94716584It isn't a war.It isn't even a battle.H5 isn't even a contender in the game.
>>94716601The only difference between a caitiff and a pander is that the Sabbat is willing to admit when one of the clanless is too powerful to fuck with. Before that, you're a more expendable suicide shock troop than even your average shovel-head. Hell, after that it's still the case, but suckheads will stay out of your way now.
>>94716609DtD can be really fun. The book sucks, mostly as a result of being written between cofd 1e and 2e, but a lot of the mechanics allow for some fun and funky stories to come out of it. I've only managed to play one game (and an abandoned half), but it might be my favorite of all of wod/cofd, with htv being a close second.
>>94716584H5 is probably the one thing everyone, even the people who like V5, can agree on sucking. If you want to play the kinds of things that immediately come to mind when you hear "Hunter", play HtV or MAYBE Hunter's Hunted V20 if your ST is a massive stickler for oWoD. If you want to play Imbued, which is a very specific but not bad flavor of things, play Hunter: the Reckoning, the real one, Revised Edition.
>>94714515>>94715381>>94716445>>94716730Gonna be honest here, Anons.Hunters Hunted is a LOT more fun to play than Reckoning. Reckoning itself was a ToJism, and its entire premise lived and died on the whole Final Nights thing.I, for one, am glad they went for a more HH approach for the 5th Edition. HH is much more fondly remembered than Reckoning, and I think that material reflects better what kind of play most people want from a Hunter game on the World of Darkness.As for Vigil, I won't pretend I've read it.>>94714522>checkedThe planning for this thing started more than half a decade before the pandemic hit. See the Contagion story for CofD, for example. You can criticise their lack of manoeuvrability, but that's a critic you can make to almost any business in the world, especially regarding the global pandemic.>>94714534I'll believe the play is over when the fat woman sings.>>94714977The brand marketing manager, having come from BNS, which runs the LARP scene in the American West Coast, is curiously always forgotten in those discussions. There is no Swedish official VtM LARP group—as a matter of fact, the oldest, most famous one has gone on a hiatus for two years now.If anything, the ones that benefit from having 5th Edition be LARP centric were the Americans, not the Swedes.And remind me again, from which general direction the Chechen Gay Genocide outrage came from, again? That's right—the AMERICAN audience.Wheels within wheels.
>>94717034>I, for one, am glad they went for a more HH approach for the 5th Edition.Here's the thing though, they shouldn't have called it reckoning if it wasn't reckoning. It's even worse that you're trying to justify changing reckoning to HH when hunted already exists and could have been updated as HH5.Bait and switch is not, can not, and will Never be justified.
>>94717034That's why I said it's a very specific flavor. You play Reckoning if you WANT to play Reckoning and it's ToJ/Final Nights vibe. Redoing Reckoning for 5th probably would have been a bad idea, but it's still very poor form to steal Reckoning's name when you're doing Hunter's Hunted. The other issue is that H5 provides virtually nothing over H20. It has less options, less content, the only advantage is a different core system without SOME of the jankiness of oWoD. But that can be said about Vigil to.Lastly, you're doing yourself a massive disservice if you love the Hunters Hunted way of things and have never even bothered to read Vigil. Vigil is HH taken to a full splat. If you miss the oWoD organizations, it would be fairly easy to port them over as Compacts and Conspiracies. This is the real issue with H5. It's not really any better than HH20, let alone Vigil.
>>94717123There was a whole line called World of Darkness that wasn't the World of Darkness.The line management fuckuppery didn't start yesterday.>>94717131Vigil is from, pardon my lame-ass pun, the Wrong of Darkness. I don't really have any reasons to read it other than my general curiosity.Maybe one day I'll arse myself with reading Vigil but without having any opportunities to play it, it's never gonna be high on my To Read pile, and will keep getting pushed back to the end as Things Come Up.But who knows what the future hold. I don't have anything against nWoD/CofD per se, but nobody ever wonders why I don't read Dawkins or Hite's non-WoD stuff, for example. It's the same principle.
>>94717208There's nothing stopping you from playing vigil in vtm's setting, though. Hunter the Vigil is almost entirely splat/lore-agnostic, and HtV1e is tied to by far and away the most developed and best system for mortal characters.
>>94717208Do you actually consider Paradox's stuff to be World of Darkness? I would much sooner consider nWoD/Chronicles WoD than Paradox's skinsuit edition.
>>94717272In the framework I used for that 3 page essay about the nWoD-CofD relationship—the one that is universally beloved by /WoDg/ and that has never caused any stupid flame war that derailed the entire thread for days at a time—I establish that 5th Edition is also a separate setting/universe/timeline, too. It is part of the WoD family of products and very clearly belongs in the discussion with the rest of them, but a continuation of Revised/20th Anniversary It Is Not.It's funny how nobody picked up on that, but I digress.>>94717254It's a lot of work to do that, though, but if I say it's not worth the effort, I'll be speaking out of my ass here because I haven't read the book. What I can say is that you are not the first person to tell me that, and one of my best friends who is indeed a Giant nWoD/CofD nerd, tells me the same thing. If I ever set out to ST a Hunter story, I'll for sure give the core book a read, as inspirational material. I just don't see this happening anytime soon. I am not saying the line is without merit, I'm just saying it's not high on my priority list for now. This can change at any moment, but it doesn't seem likely to happen right now. Currently, I am much more interested in reading Dark Ages: Inquisitor, for example, and it's probably something I'll tackle next week or thereabouts.
>>94714022He also shopped the prospect out to several clans, and thought the Tzimisce could give him the best outcome.
>>94717382Can you start namefagging so I don't have to read your posts anymore? Thanks.
>>94716697I tried running it once years ago but I got a bit too hung up on the Cover rules and everyone had multiple covers running about, the players swapped between them like it was Oceans Eleven. It was definitely fun, but years later I'm still not entirely sure how Covers are meant to be fully utilised. I asked a few threads ago and it turns out they don't run on a low-power sort of mode when not in use, they literally just poof out of existance.
Question for the thread. What do you think is the best way to defend yourself from Werewolves? Assume little to no supernatural powers, since even low level powers can drastically alter what the most effective method is. I still remember the thread where we went down the list of which disciplines worked on Werewolves and found that Ventrue have a weirdly good match-up. Specify if you're talking about Apocalypse or Forsaken Werewolves in your post, since what makes them deadly is different. Examples from actual play are preferred, but if you have none feel free to theory-craft. If you do, assume that we're dealing with an average, unimpressive werewolf, or a pack thereof.
I have a question concerning MTA.I was wondering if a mage's avatar can be a Celestine or an Incarna.I had a concept in mind of a kinfolk mage that while he has not been blessed with the garou powers, he awakened as a mage and has Gaia (or a fraction of her) as his avatar.
>>94717648>weirdly goodIt's pretty consistent that the trump card of vampires is their access to true mind control, secondarily after, the ways their powers break reality in the most vulgar way. The most crudely effective combat squad will consist of Ventrue and Brujah.
>>94717676You can have a Totem as your Avatar.
>>94717648>ApocalypseA technical crewed by people who won't shit their pants from seeing crinos will mow down a pack.>forsakenHobo with a machete.
>>94717518Can you do the same? Shitheel.
>>94717648all apocalypse: sam uses human redneck cannon fodder (that he does not expect to survive) and hidden explosives makeshift and otherwise before his transformation... presumably he also removes all the item a werewolf could sidestep out of from the area but that is not mentioned in the books however the plot would break if he didn't... and is presented as very effective with only the pcs having a change to get past his traps and only if they roll good (sadly it does nothing if you get past the traps in time because railroading) and the tactic works (at least on npcs) both in the middle of American cities and the amazon forestpentex is often presented as using helicopter + rifles with silver bullets to great effect, but in most cases that would be more offensive than defensive and i imagine would fail miserably if a glass walker of sufficient rank would bother to show up to help their more wild companions and use their gifts to turn off or take over the helicopter>>94717676they can both look like the same pagan gods but avatars are a different kind of spirits and even the trinity can grant awakened magic so it's unlikely that gaia couldyou are better off looking into the shaman way which allows you to have a totem as a mage or sorcerer however garou hate the shit out of mages just like they do nearly everyone else because you shouldn't have that power! kinfolk or not! And even if your st hands waves that to give you gaia as a avatar this won't necessarily safe you from the garou's suspicion because garou kill kami: people and animals empowered by gaian spirits in a similar way to fomori who have a direct line to gaia... because they don't want the competition (i wish i was making this up, but it's from the possessed book) and after samuel haight they now have the possibility of a kinfolk rebellion on the radar
>>94717648As I understand it, if I love a moderate and unassuming life I'm unlikely to be targetted by spirits, which should in turn keep me safe from Werewolves. Assuming Forsaken, no idea about Apocalypse.
>>94717837>*open a wound in ur area*nothin personnel, cid
I just flipped through the H5 books again after the thread talked about them, what a waste of data. It's just two low-efforts primers on WoD, you could just hack the exact same game out of V5, Hunters Hunted style. I'm sick of their Gen-X nihilism too. What if I want to create a cell that's a socialist polycule that hunts neighborhood watch types and private equity firms just as much as the supernatural, and we're good at it? Fuck you, make games that are fun.
>>94717867You mean Centrism won't save me from the woofs?
You!Yes, you!Tell me a weird thing that exist in your version of the world of darkness!Something bizarre or idiosyncratic that none the less is there!
>>94717208>The line management fuckuppery didn't start yesterday.And? That doesn't justify doubling down on the mistake.
>>94717899I still use "One World of Darkness" even though Revised tried to kill that idea completely. I have higher view splats actually know things about other splats beyond lies and assumptions.This means Control, the Weaver, and Lucifer(as well as the camerilla to a much lesser extent) are all aware of each other and the fact they're generally working toward the same goals.On an actual play level, this means a large reason for things being able to stay covered up is the technocrats looking over everyone's shoulder and the masquerade isn't important because a nebulous possibility of a second inquisition could spawn, the "inquisition"(AKA the technocracy) is Here at your doorstep having a cold war with the princedoms as they focus on managing the damage of the local Sabbat packs.
>>94717774>>forsaken>Hobo with a machete.Maybe in 1e, but 2e their regeneration is strong enough that he's not going to get through them. 2e was a huge glow up for the Forsaken.
>>94717750I see. Is there one that Garou respects above any other?>>94717819>they can both look like the same pagan gods but avatars are a different kind of spirits and even the trinity can grant awakened magic so it's unlikely that gaia couldIsn’t Gaia on the same rank or above the Triat? Or at the very least not that far off?>you are better off looking into the shaman way which allows you to have a totem as a mage or sorcerer however garou hate the shit out of mages just like they do nearly everyone else because you shouldn't have that power! kinfolk or not!>And even if your st hands waves that to give you gaia as a avatar this won't necessarily safe you from the garou's suspicion because garou kill kami: people and animals empowered by gaian spirits in a similar way to fomori who have a direct line to gaia... because they don't want the competition (i wish i was making this up, but it's from the possessed book) and after samuel haight they now have the possibility of a kinfolk rebellion on the radarI see. Though the M20 book says that awakened kinfolk are a lot more tolerated (some even accepted) by the garou than regular mage. I was thinking as a concept that the kinfolk awakened while he was within the tribe. The only reason that he does anything is for the Planet (Gaia) foremost, then his tribe and family.
>>94717676No, your avatar is a piece of your own soul or spirit. You cannot have your avatar be an existing spirit. Although, you can certainly make it LOOK like an existing spirit. However, some Dreamspeakers (after purchasing a particular merit) can purchase the Totem Background. It provides certain bonuses and you do things for it in return. The power of this totem would relate to how many dots you put into the background, the higher the rank of the totem, the more dots. Powerful spirits come with powerful bans, and they can abandon you or punish you accordingly. Talk with your ST about it.
>>94718034Gaia is far beyond the other spirits. It is not only the Triat, it is the sum total of everything. Everything in the Umbra + everything is the physical = Gaia. The status of kinfolk mages is debatable and is something that changes per edition. In general, Garou get mad when kinfolk do anything besides fuck them and do their laundry.
>>94717890That is also true (of pure in particular), but while the hehpilled wolves do kill a lot of people I was more talking about them just turning your neighborhood into shadowrun's kowloon walled clitty and all your neighbors and you getting filled with rape/murder/depression spirits.>>947179832e forsaken have a much better base template and 2e has much weaker mortals, but with the higher damage game, in practice I think all you would need is for the machete to be silver, right? Average werewolf has no answer to taking 8+ aggravated damage afaik.I say machete but the machete was a metaphor, for 2e you might actually have to use an axe rather than it just being optimal.
>>94718034>Isn’t Gaia on the same rank or above the Triat? Or at the very least not that far off?she is below them but she is the next best thing beside possibly helios (if i remember correctly m20 cosmology list actually puts him a entire tier above gaia as it lists him as a so called godhead in that, but in wta he is just a powerful celestine) but again it's mentioned that the trinity can't grand you awakened magic, they can manipulate it to some degree (the weaver can take away the ability to use vulgar magic for example) if you become possessed by one of their spirits, but that's it>I see. Though the M20 book says that awakened kinfolk are a lot more tolerated (some even accepted) by the garou than regular mage. I was thinking as a concept that the kinfolk awakened while he was within the tribe. The only reason that he does anything is for the Planet (Gaia) foremost, then his tribe and family.you are more accepted as a kinfolk mage, but that just means that they won't try to eat your face on sight if you come to close to a cearn and you don't need a spirit to act as a middle man to even arrange a meeting but that only lasts as long as you don't "over step your bounds" so as long as you stay a submissive kinfolk who is not correcting a actual garou on the nature of spirits or magic or are getting involved in the actual fighting for gaia you are fine-ish
>>94718034Yeah. While they're still usually distrusted and looked down on by werewolves, it isn't a hard rule. Not sure which Tribe fits best for that sort of thing though. Children of Gaia maybe?
>>94718235How are you statting a hobo that they've really got much chance to do anything?
>>94717916Oh, I am not using it as an excuse.I am just pointing out that some of those problems with line management and branding have been around for decades now. I don't disagree with the point I was replying to, I am, in fact, reinforcing it.>>94717899>Checked'emAll the stories I play with the same group are canon to one another. This gets complicated when players from one group play with the other. It depends on how well the other players know about the stories that each player has played with me. And I don't necessarily have to have been the ST for the story to be canon.So long as all the players can get the references I am making, it's Kosher in my book.It gives a sense of object permanence and longevity to our stories and rewards players for sticking around for the long run.
>>94718247I'd argue it's going to be a case by case basis no matter what. Children of Gaia are most permissable about any given think, but it's not hard to imagine a Fianna being friendly with a Verbana, a Shadow Lord vouching for a Hermetic, a Wendigo with a Dreamspeaker buddy. And of course, if you go to the caern next door they'd kill this mage on sight.
>>94717648Glock with silver bullets. Live in an attached building next to a technocracy laboratoryDon't go out into the woods at night.
>>94718235Getting 8 successes isn't that easy though though. 3 dice roughly = 1 success on average. So to consistently hit that number, you need to be rolling 24 dice. So the hobo would have to get extremely luck to actually do that.
>>94718342>>94718235Oops, realized you said damage, not successes. But you'll need a lot of them, because adding Athletics to Defense is busted and werewolves tend to have higher than average Athletics. A gun would work better as long as they're not in Dalu.
>>94718235What >>94718293>>94718342say, In what universe is a hobo getting six successes? (then +2 flat damage from the machete). Even if we cut out 2e's worst combat rule, athletics to defense, that's still a -2 or 3 dice to hit. With athletics to defense, homeboy isn't hitting shit. Plus the likely -2 dice penalty for Lunacy. Even a well build combat hunter isn't going to be getting 6+ successes reliably. (also silver makes for horrible blades IRL, no idea if the rules reflect that in Forsaken.)
>>94718366>>94718381It also doesn't matter. Gauru forces Down and Dirty and they've got a major advantage in their dice pool. Anything a hobo might have to gain any advantage is something they could also have and they've then got a template on top.
>>94717961I use a similar concept in my games.The system self corrects because the Masquerade is part of the consensus. Even if the Kindred tried to come out of the closet, the Technocracy would gaslight-gatekeep-girlboss the entire situation to discredit-dismantle-destroy any Vampires Are Real stories out there, and proceed to Pogrom the shit out of anybody trying to go against their Program.
>>94718391Yeah. I was mostly ignoring taking forms into account and assuming the hobo took him by surprise to give him the best odds. Taking that stuff into account, you also have other problems, like increased health. That's also not taking into account stuff like that Merit that lets you use the higher of your Wits or Dexterity, forms that increase Dexterity, and certain Facets.
>>94718434I realized a while ago the best defense against a progrom if the masquerade is broken is to make it everybody's problem and start indiscriminately mass embracing and blood bonding, with the friends and family of those who participate being prime targets. Imagine if in multiple cities all over the globe, most vampires embraced their ghouls, and then all those vampires starting sneaking into people's houses and turning them into vampires and blood bonding them. It would be a zombie apocalypse with superhuman predators.
>>94718479And then you realize that there are around 1 vamp per 100,000 mortals and that mortals have the distinct lack of reaction to sunlight on their side. At best the vampires doing this would serve as a distraction so their elders can either go into hiding or start sucking off technocrats the Other way to get back into their good graces.
>>94717961>>94718434Wouldn't a shared setting have the overhanging issue of Imbuing taking off, the Earthbound waking up, the purging of the thinbloods waking the Antedeluvians, and the Fallen summoning their lords from hell at an exponentially accelerating rate?Post-6GM WoD is a ticking timebomb and a lot of the new powers have zero interest in maintaining the charade when they join the chat.
>>94718366>>94718381>getting defenselolGreat Ax (>chainsaw[/spoiler] truly cofd authors have the smoothest of brains) is 5 automatic successes and 9 again. >(also silver makes for horrible blades IRL, no idea if the rules reflect that in Forsaken.)Reflected in 1e, completely ignored in 2e. You don't need to make things out of pure silver though, so you can get your not!alchemicalsilver weapons if you have resources 5.>>94718293Normally?Generic bottom level antagonists in cofd have 8, maybe 7 dice attack pools before spending willpower. In nwod it went as high as 9 (before equipment) and they had a lot more willpower to spend.Hobo sneak attacks you for 11 (8+3) dice with 9 again, denying your defense if you don't beat the stealth check and adding 5 points of damage if he hits you. How likely is the average werewolf (7-8 health in human form) to survive that? Keep in mind it can be any regular 5 point weapon that he's stuck a thin smear of silver on the edge of if all it needs to do aggravated damage for is one attack.We're looking at average damage of ~9 on sneak attacks and very possibly 7 without.>>94718859Demons and vampires are way weaker than other splats in owod so they don't really get a choice about what happens in a combined metaplot.
>opened a spoiler twice instead of closing itrip
>>94718766I never said it would be some sort of silver bullet, but the problem is that in such a situation, what is the alternative? Try to pretend it's business as usual and get picked off one by one? Try and negotiate when the Technocracy and other groups like probably the Catholic Church doing what they can to wreck any chance of that happening? The only other real option is the slim hope of being able to scapegoat the Sabbat.
>>94718102So far (wiki plus a glimpse of M20) the avatar’s exact nature isn’t known. What is sure is that they are bound to the soul. Not a part of it. In some cases it follows a soul when it reincarnates, or they just bind themselves to another one. What more that is known of them is muddled in mystery.I definitely have to look into the totems part of the book.>>94718199Perhaps I should take the Immunity merit against Fera lol>>94718236Could a member of the Triat hijack an awakening? Like taking over the avatar? Just out of curiosity, otherwise I’ll just ask the ST to handwave it away.Honestly that way to play as a kinfolk sounds like fun.>>94718247>>94718303Tldr on the tribes, and which would be more accepting?Personally I think that I would go for Life 3 and Spirit 3. Both traditions are fine to me.
>>94718966>Generic bottom level antagonists in cofd have 8, maybe 7 dice attack pools before spending willpower.What hobo has 4 Strength, 4 Melee?
>>94718966>Demons and vampires are way weaker than other splats in owodThe ground-level ones sure.Antes and Archdukes break those rules though. Each of them could destroy most of a continent even when they inevitably lose from being outnumbered.Even the technocrats are going to have trouble covering up things up when gravity's suddenly going backwards across europe or the sun starts being blotted out by a an endless shadow with teeth.
I'm just gonna say it: Inquisitors are better than Imbued. And I don't even dislike the Imbued, I love the whole Messengers lore and hunter-net bullshit.Then again, I'm only interested in Hunters as enemies or NPC allies.
>>94719188Messengers fucking destroyed by facts and logic.Lucifer wins again(at least until one of his subordinates fuck everything up again)
>>94719019>What hobo has 4 Strength, 4 Melee?War veterans that failed to reintegrate into civilized society often end up homeless.
>>94719188I'm just gonna say it: water is wet.
>>94717034>Chechen Gay Genocide outrage came from, again?>That's right—the AMERICAN audience.actually it was the chechnyans and they started threatening to kill authors
>>94718966>Generic bottom level antagonists in cofd have 8, maybe 7 dice attack pools before spending willpower.No they don't. You just posted the most combat orientated Antagonist in the blue book. The cultist has a 3 dice combat pool. Genuinely a retarded thing to lie about when we can go and look at the book. You're talking about the guys whose job it is to kill people. Not a guy who has no job. >Hobo sneak attacks you for 11 (8+3) dice with 9 again, denying your defense if you don't beat the stealth check and adding 5 points of damage if he hits you. How likely is the average werewolf (7-8 health in human form) to survive that? How likely is it for a hobo to 1) sneak up on a werewolf, 2) have 4 STR, 3) have 4 Weaponry, 4) have a random flat +3 from somewhere, 5) have a silver axe, and 6) manages to not alert the werewolf when he says "nothing personal, kid" as he fumbles with his fedora?>Keep in mind it can be any regular 5 point weaponWhat regular 5 point weapons are you talking about? Between the core set and Hurt Lockers there is one (1) 5 damage weapon and it's a chainsaw. Y'know not a weapon conducive to stealth actions. Everything else in the core book is 3 or less, and only a great sword does 4 in Hurt Locker. Nothing Armory has is converting any higher than that either. How'd you manage to fuck up spoilers that badly? Other than the aforementioned mental deficiency, of course.
>>94719220>Lucifer wins againDon't inquisitor's fight against him?
>>94718994>Could a member of the Triat hijack an awakening? Like taking over the avatar? Just out of curiosityas far as we know? no the only two beings known that can mess with avatars like that are weird unexplained psychopomps that don't belong to the triach at all and aliens from a higher dimensions who are not spirits (they don't give a shit about the spirit sphere and you need Correspondence and Time to be able to even perceive them)> otherwise I’ll just ask the ST to handwave it away.yeah sure it's your game
>>94718966I know you're a pot-stirring retard, but you do realize the prompt was Werewolf defense for a mortal presumably player character. Not a cherrypicked NPC ambushing a werewolf under absolutely optimal circumstances.
>>94719220I like to believe Lucifer made Avatars to begin with.The whole "loves humanity and wants them to reach their full potential"? The whole "Avatars are fragments of angels"?Either he took the dead angels and ground them into fragments for Avatars as a final act of defiance OR he started the whole war with that purpose. Either way he won.
>>94719316no he is supposedly using them to kill earthbound cults to lower the global level of faithi say supposedly because that is only stated in modern night dtf books as lucifer never shows up in any of the dark age books and in those books the shadow inqusition is rumored to be instead a messianic voices project gone terribly wrong for them
>>94719316>Don't inquisitor's fight against him?DtF and Gehenna actually hint that Lucifer is currently acting as the abrahamic god while capital G went to get milk and never came back.Which makes the WoD default cosmology Gnostic.
>>94719341what is a consequences of this at the table in play?
>>94719360nta, but nothing really. the angel shard thing is from a dtf novel that shows how demons see avatars and even if that is their true backstory it would not change at all how mages interact and perceive their avatar it would just mean that nephanti are another one of lucifer's and caine's fuck ups
>>94719286>No they don't.Yes they do.>You just posted the most combat orientated Antagonist in the blue book. Not even close. I posted the first antagonist in the blue book. The second has 8 dice. The 4th has 7 dice. You have to cherrypick non-combat antagonists to find anyone with a less than 7 dicepool. And these aren't even real antagonists, they're faceless mooks without gear or sheets who don't follow the rules of the World (of Darkness).>You're talking about the guys whose job it is to kill people. Not a guy who has no job. Pretty fucking sure that the hobo with a silvered greatax who is deliberately attacking a werewolf in an ambush is occupationally involved in killing people (or werewolves, anyway).>Everything else in the core book is 3 or lessGreat ax is, and remains, 5.>Nothing Armory has is converting any higher than that either.Armory gives 7 with an obsidian greatax. It also gives things like halberds that completely ignore defense and armor unconditionally with fighting style merits, reflected attacks from halfswording said halberd, etc.>How likely100%. The question was "what is needed to kill a werewolf". This is the answer. Try to keep up.>4) have a random flat +3 from somewhere,Literally 100%. You are a complete nogames. You have not played any version of WoD, nwod or cofd, and you did not read the post you are replying to.>1) sneak up on a werewolfPretty decent.If you look at anyone who actually has a full sheet their stats are even higher. A random SWAT officer has 9 dice before gear.Ironic to try and mouth off when you then have to ask a question that was already answered>>94719178>Antes [] break those rules though.Not even close.Antes were proven to be weaker than regular ass non-archmaster technocrats. They're not even on the totem pole, let alone breaking it's rules.
>>94719019The other anon mentioned war veterans, which is correct. But generally you don't survive the streets by being weak.Also Bum Fights. I practiced martial arts for over a decade and I still think a bum has more "dots" in melee than me or my peers.
>>94719334That's the literal opposite of the prompt.
>>94719238The problem is, as a former hobo who goes to the gym myself, you aren't maintaining that much muscle on the streets thanks to poor nutrition and exercise. Most people have a dice pool of around 4-5 at things they do for a living. Modern military doctrine doesn't put that much focus into using melee weapons either, so this guy had to learn that on his own time if he's got melee above 2. To pull off a proper ambush, they'd also need Dexterity and Stealth. And while it would make sense for former special forces to have something like that, werewolves are incentivized to have high Composure do to how brutally punishing death rage is. Having low Wits is also a handicap do to its importance in tracking and combat. So the hobo is probably going to need high Dexterity and Stealth. He can't spend 2 Willpower in a turn, so he has to choose between gambling on getting off a surprise attack or a 1HKO. At this point, it isn't a hobo with a silver machete, it's a well fed former special forces hobo who studied the blade as a hobby who also has a gym membership (which, to be fair, is a good investment if you have a small source of income just for access to a shower) and who has a silver machete that he didn't sell for food and/or drugs (which I stayed away from, but many don't because being homeless is miserable and boring if they weren't already addicts).
>>94719341>>94719344>>94719352Wait, so if inquisitors are Lucifers hand-crafted version of the reckoning-hunter blueprint...how the fuck did the messenger angels fuck up the instructions so bad? Why do HtR hunters lose their marbles at the drop of a hat while barely being able to manifest anything overtly supernatural while Inquisitors are able to be demon-hunting giga-chads that only get backlash when they explicitly bring it on themselves?
>>94719378>Armory gives 7 with an obsidian greataxHey, retard, obsidian and silver are different materials.
>>94719411>Most people have a dice pool of around 4-5 at things they do for a livingIf you actually look at the stats, nobody has less than 6 and most people have 7-8. Anyone who doesn't have an entry level job has 8-9 instead.>He can't spend 2 Willpower in a turn, so he has to choose between gambling on getting off a surprise attack or a 1HKO.Stealth roll and the attack aren't in the same turn.>silver macheteIt's the heaviest thing with a blade you can buy from the hardware store and a sheet of silver foil.
>>94719440Hey, retard, you don't need the axe to be made of silver, it just needs a coating.
>>94719463>homebrew rules to win internet argumentsActually pathetic.
>>94719378>Antes were proven to be weaker than regular ass non-archmaster technocratsIs there anything in WoD that isn't weaker than non-archmaster technocrats when they bring out the Big Toys? Saying something loses to the Technocracy in emergency mode is like saying it loses to Caine.
Stop replying and just report the guy for trolling. He's been at this routine incessantly, if the mods did their job he'd be gone by now.
>>94718479That's a very interesting premise for a story, especially a Gehenna type of end of the world scenario. Very interesting, Anon. I might steal this for use one day.>>94718859Potentially, but I never STed Hunter Reck nor Demon. Veeeeeery unsatisfying answer, I know, but none of my friends were ever interested in any of those settings, so I never had to deal with it.But I suppose Earthbounds could be a reason to 'ballance' the Technocracy in the sense that the PCs have some room to maneuver because they're too small of a fish for the Union to give much of a shit about them and spend resources with 'em.As for the Imbued, they only pop up once the Final Nights are at hand and how many of them are up to the STs discretion. Personally, I'd see the Technocracy turning a blind eye to them... until they don't.>>94719268Funny how that's not how I remember it.What I remember is some bald, ugly dude on a stream full of Americans apologizing in English about offending American sensibilities.I don't remember having seen anything in Russian to appease the Chechens.Maybe you can refresh my memory here and point to me to the hour-long stream in Russian to apologize to the Russians?>>94719334You're being a dick but you're also correct. You catch more bears with honey than vinegar—advice I could take myself, but do what I tell you, not what I do. Unless it's funny, in which case do what I do, I guess.>>94719341You can't even use Tremere as the Big Bad on Mage because of editorial management issues, not to mention the implications of having Lucifer as a central concept to a game with some modicum of connection to occultism.That being said, the origin of the Avatars is explained on Mage 1st edition as being fragments of the Pure Ones, whomever the fuck those are.
>>94719418Lucifer wants to see humanity thrive. The Messengers don't care all that much if they even survive.
>>947193751e's rulebook also mentions the angel shard theory in a tiny paragraph but never brings it up again.But yeah one of the ToJ scenarios is about Lucifer leading armies of...well, everyone against the earthbound and nephandi to save the world.>>94719360In play? Nothing. The closest thing my silly house rule of reducing the cost of making pacts with Demons (fallen/goetic, not earthbound or banes or lovecraft things) as long as your Avatar resonates with them. It's just my schizo theory.>>94719418We honestly don't know. We don't even know if Messengers are actual angels (Lucifer says they're the last angels alive, other sources say they're chinese gods, others say they're gods from Exalted).But the Imbued's weaknesses are intentional because they're meant to hunt only supernaturals and die as soon as they're powerful enough to be a reality-altering entity. They're easily replaceable and any collateral damage has a chance to create more of their kind. That's why even the "evil" Imbued (Waywards) are tolerated, unlike the "evil" versions of other splats (BSDs, Baali, Nephandi, etc.).Which leads me to wonder, are there any cases of Inquisitors abusing their powers and becoming dangerous, evil and unhinged extremists similar to the Wayward Imbued in the books? I need to read more Dark Ages stuff.
>>94719418Because Lucifer was designed to be the angel gigachad while every other angel was design to shut up, bend over, and thank daddy when he was done. Him leaving heaven had disastrous consequences on their ability to get anything done right.
>>94719490Here's your >(you)>>94719494From the top of my head>spirits>nephandi>archmaster technocrats>technocrat machines>evil spooky spacegods>mummies>big wraiths>>94719498He's not correct, he's literally claiming the direct opposite of reality.
>>94719515>are there any cases of Inquisitors abusing their powers and becoming dangerous, evil and unhinged extremists similar to the Wayward Imbued in the books?All the fucking time. However, they're designed to still autistically hyper-focus on hunting supernaturals even when they fall because that's the source of their conviction-based powers.If an inquisitor actually falls far enough to start making deals with supernaturals, their a metaphysical kill-switch that turns off all the positive aspect of their powers while leaving all the curse and vulnerabilities they accumulated.
>>94719529>What do you think is the best way to defend yourself from Werewolves? Assume little to no supernatural powers, since even low level powers can drastically alter what the most effective method isNPC statblocks aren't "yourself". People can check the same thread, dipshit. This isn't "what can kill werewolves" but what the best way to defend yourself is. Fuck off already, nobody wants to hear your bullshit.
>>94719515For Inquisitors, they can become insane, but don't really go full evil if they're playable. Inquisitors, by definition, have to earnestly believe they're doing the right thing and making the best choices. Cynical people don't end up capital-I Inquisitors. A close example is a plot hook of a scion of an Inquisition family getting mindfucked by an Unseelie and going on a rampage. He might be statted out as having evil, inverted versions of the superior virtues Inquisitors have, with similarly inverted tricks and Unseelie magic instead of blessings.
>>94719564>NPC statblocks aren't "yourself".Have you ever played world of darkness?
>>94719529There were only 3 accurate things in that list and 2 of them were part of the technocracy.In order of what I mean:>SpiritsAbsolutely not. It was actually a plot-point that the prime-nukes were actually orders-of-magnitude more effective against spirits than were predicted and nearly turned india's penumbra into an empty void.>nephandiArch-nephandi like in the ToJ book? Absolutely. But regular nephandi? Definitely not.>MummiesEven mummies themselves disagree with this in their corebooks>Big WraithsIt was a major plot point in the 6GM/Avatar Storm event that most of the onceborn were killed by a technomagic spirit nuke.One.By Accident.
For WtA why not start a nuclear war? After seeing the result of Chernobyl and how the wild is flourishing from it, a massive win for the wild, why not extrapolate it to more areas so nature can regrow.
>>94719418like messangers want imbued to be like they areit's part of htr being part of the lead up to the time of judgment, the imbued is not meant to last they are meant to destroy as much supernatural before the big event as they canand inqusitors also lose their marbles or are cursed by god for their actions as the higher a inqusitor goes the more "curses" he get's" just not as bad as imbued but that could just be because inqusitors only go from rank 1 to 4 (the abilities go to the 5th dot but acording to their book the inqusitors stated there show true fatih 1-4) so it might just be that lucifer put in a break before they go full end mode imbuedor it could be the consquence of the imbued not having true faith before they get their template while all inqusitors do, so they are basicly missing the software drivers for their new powers
>>94719612Isn't a Wendigo subfaction trying to do that?
>>94719612>t. smartest and least blood-thirsty dogboy.
>>94719612Because the Garou are retards anon. WtA goes out of its way to establish this.
>>94719612the giovanni revised clan book mentions that a aliiance of red talons, verbana mages and giovanni vampires are trying their best to get nukes the ventrue don't let them meaning the union didn't even had to get involved yet
>>94719628>>94719634Ok, I thought there was a reason not do so and I was being retarded.>>94719632Impergium soon brvthers, total human death.
>>94719554>Lucifer even design the safety system better.Really changes the context of why the messengers sent a guy to get Lucy to "Repent" and come back to heaven. They really can't get shit done without him holding their hand.
>>94719650>aliiance of red talons, verbana mages and giovanni vampiresInteresting coalition, what was their goal?
>>94719611>Absolutely notAbsolutely yes, you mean.There are space spirits that facefuck the technocracy.The wyrm/wyld/weaver don't even exist in the same dimension of scaling as they do. Weaver in particular is literally the fundamental cause of the biggest threat to technomancers and they get fucked by this on the level of setting metaphysics.>2 of them were part of the technocracyNo they aren't. The technocrat leaders that fucked off into space and became radicalized or the technocrat stuff that is rogue are both explicitly not part of the technocracy (anymore).>Arch-nephandi ... Absolutely.Which exist, which was the question.>Even mummies themselves disagree with this in their corebooksNot talking about player characters here>most of the oncebornAnd yet not a single actually important wraith was impacted.
>>94719529Sorry, I thought you guys were talking about Apocalypse, not Forsaken.I have no idea how Forsaken works in detail like that, I should've kept the beerhole shut.Go forth and flame each other for three days if need be, I don't care.
>>94719683You were right in either scenario.
>>94719659death, a lot of it, the verbana and red talons want to nuke humanity back to the dark or stone ages and the giovanni think that nuclear holocaust (preferably in egypt to kill the setites first) is just the thing they need to break open the shroud between the normal world and the shadowlandswhich of course they haven't told the other two factions to them they said that they also just want to go back to "simpler times" and that killing a lot of humanity would be great for a clan of necromancers
>>94719659I can understand the Verbena and the Ted Ralons, but the Dio Vanny did leave me scratching my head there, too.
>>94719695Here's your >(you)Read the book
>>94719696>nuke humanity back to the dark or stone agesReal Gaian Werewolves approve this message.
Wew, ghosts look like this?
>>94719728You haven't got a ghostfu? Mate it's all over for you
>>94719738N-necromancybros, I kneel.
What does hedgefag look like
>>94719746
>>94719728A classic.https://youtu.be/eJaU2qLwXvs?si=L0CFrp-gPSMnaxKX
>>94719672>Absolutely yesThere is a biiiig diference between Celestines Supernals, and the average spirit anon.>Which existSame as the above.>Not talking about player characters hereYou really need to be clear with what you're talking about anon. If you said horus and osiris, I'd have agreed, but the average mummy isn't really going to amount to much.>No they aren'tThere are still arch-technocrats anon, not all of them are part of "threat null".I'm also pretty sure the technocracy has plenty of machines in the actual technocracy
>>94719721It was a fucking plot-point in WtA: Apocalypse that the wendigo tribe tried to start a nuclear war... And that was Before they were in danger of falling to the wyrm.Gaia is not humanity's friend.
>>94719786you want to get shadowrun? because that's how you get shadowrun
>>94719774>There is a biiiig diference between Celestines Supernals, and the average spirit anon.Which is a complete non-sequitur. Are there spirits that facefuck the technocracy? Yes? So when you ask for a list of things that could facefuck the technocracy, is it normal for someone to reply with those spirits? Yes? So go fuck yourself you niggerfaggot.>Same as the above.Same as the above.>You really need to be clear with what you're talking about anon.No I don't. The parameters of the question make it clear what I'm talking about.>If you said horus and osiris, I'd have agreedSo then you agree. Stop being a retarded faggot.>the average mummy isn't really going to amount to much.And? What the fuck does this have to do with anything?>There are still arch-technocrats anonSure, but the ones that are the threat to the technocracy are.>I'm also pretty sure the technocracy has plenty of machines in the actual technocracyNot the actually dangerous one(s).
>>94719794>you want to get shadowrun?NTA, but... can I be an elf?
>>94719794Honestly? Yes!Embrace the Weaver, unlike Gaia she actually canonically loves humanity.
>>94719804I understand now anon, have a nice day.
>>94719830Ignore and report, anon. It's the only thing that'll work.
>>94719821>Embrace the Weaver, unlike Gaia she actually canonically loves humanity.It still surprises me when some people haven't caught on to the fact that the player splats are the villains of their settings. Not the main villains by any stretch, but still one of the villains.
>>94719863I mean werewolf has been pretty explicit with it's ecoterrorism and you have an entire tribe that want to wipe out humanity. I thought it was pretty clear these were not great people.
>>94719528Why did the whitewolf writers suck lucifer's cock so hard while writing her?
>>94719809NTA either, but Yes, you can.Can I play a regular, boring human, but full of cybernetic enhancements?
>>94719945Sure.It'll be like a cool sitcom.
>>94719830You're not supposed to announce that your own post was bait, retard.
>>94719821Assuming the weaver promotes progressivism, seems only logical, even if real progressivism different from what we think it is. This progressivism the weaver gives us is leading to mass human dejection and a decline in life quality, which is why everyone is clamouring for change.
>>94719936because lucifer as the chad good guy was fresh and edgy at the time, it allowed them to make fun of the satanic panic and it fit in the counter culture vibe they been into back thenpersonally i still think they overdid it however
>>94719809That's called a Sidhe in WoD anon. A Dwarf would be a Nocker, Trolls aren't changed, etc...
>>94719979>Assuming the weaver promotes progressivism, seems only logicalThat is a reach. Modern "progressivism" is wyrmish as hell. 90% of it is about destroying established systems that worked for decades without a viable alternative while Also destroying positive social progress made in spite of those systems.
>>94720018You ate the bait anon...
>>94719989>That's called a Sidhe in WoD anon.I think most people memory-hole changeling. Otherkin: the Psyche Ward wasn't a widely played game.Besides, WoD elves aren't very compatible with cyberpunk implants.
>>94719652>Ok, I thought there was a reason not do so and I was being retarded.I mean... you could argue that, the death and destruction would create banes so obscenely powerful that no one on their side could do anything to stop them.Genuinely, what the fuck is the likes of Griffin going to do against a spirit who can hit as hard as a volcano eruption and salt the earth for years at the time?
>>94720117>hit as hard as a volcano eruptionDon't masturbate nukes too hard. You're average tornado has more energy than a nuke, just in a very specific pattern. Hell, that's true of the human Body. Complexity is energy expensive.Chernobyl also shows that these banes would be too fat from overeating to serve as anything but food for gaian and wyld spirits
>>94720018I don't mean the retarded cultural shit. More the living standards and the atomisation of the individual. The world is slipping more and more into a technocratic state, with it we are getting more ordered sterile lives with declining living standards. Progressivism is the belief that we are moving towards some utopia, and with the increasing weaver domination we are moving towards the weavers total conquest and ideal world.>>94720031It legitimately isn't bait. If the theory of progressivism is true then the weaver must be a progressive as it is recreating the world into it's image.
>>94720117Yeah that's my only counterpoint to it, but why didn't it happen at Chernobyl with all the radiation which is the wyrms purview.
>https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jan/01/sweden-wolf-hunt-halve-population-endangered-animal>five entire familes can be killed, totalling 30 wolves, in move campaigners say is ilegal under EU lawSeems like Brunhilde is trying once again to eliminate the Get of Fenris
>>94720117>>94719652This is what the fight would look likehttps://youtu.be/8BqNrpfrjr0?si=azHWIeXi23Hn_x31
>>94720192It's over...
>>94720183Chernobyl in wod is a major black spiral dancer hive despite one of the zmei absorbing a lot of the spiritual radiation
>>94720218But how does explain the rewilding of the area? Surely nothing would grow and if it did it would be freakish corruption. Also which book? I missed that.
>>94720147Counterpoint: The whole point of nuking the Nips twice was to make sure they understood they'd be getting nuked until they surrendered. Every nation that has Nukes has more than one.
>>94720250Werewolf is 30 years old.
>>94720153Thing is, we really aren't. The economy is imploding, our social structures are falling apart, crime is becoming rampant, etc..This is an age of change and chaos similar to "the troubles" before the french revolution or "the roaring twenties" before the collapse into the great depression(wait it's the two thousand twenties... I guess we never learn).More than anything, the weaver is Losing influence and that's the problem(for humanity, the garou might start celebrating depending on tribe)
>>94720192
>>94719451>If you actually look at the stats, nobody has less than 6 and most people have 7-8. Anyone who doesn't have an entry level job has 8-9 instead.Even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that this is an exceptional hobo beyond being a traumatized veteran. You're still probably looking at a dice pool on the lower end. Military knife training also only goes so far, so this is someone who purposely trained for melee combat, like a former fencer or someone who is already a hunter if you're going above Melee 3. Even Strength 3 still feels like stretch do to the lack of food and exercise, but I'm willing to accept it for the sake of this argument.>Stealth roll and the attack aren't in the same turn.Fair enough. But this raises another point. I got curious enough to start checking over the rules, and I can't find anything preventing the werewolf from spending Willpower on their Wits + Composure roll.>It's the heaviest thing with a blade you can buy from the hardware store and a sheet of silver foil.According to Forsaken 2e, if the machete is silver do to foil and not do to being made out of it, it counts as an improvised weapon, so that's -1 to the dice pool.
>>94720250rage across russia>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Hive_of_the_Unleashed_Atomin wod there is nothing growing there and the land is poison thereyou have to rememeber that wod is worse than our world so just because something in our world got better doesn't mean it did in wod
>>94720265Chernobyl fuck up is 40 years old?>>94720282Ah ok, thanks, shame it doesn't follow real life more.
>>94720147I know they don't have the same scale but it is like comparing the outcome of a machine the size of the great wall to one the size of a smartphone.
>>94720260Bold bluff that paid off, because as far as history knows there was no third nuke.
>>94720218The writer were wrong. Simple As.Everyone thought Chernobyl would stay a radioactive hellscape for thousands of years, but nature reclaimed the area faster than anyone predicted.In WoD terms, it shows that if the Wyrm ever really starts winning then the Wyld will start kicking its ass the moment the Weaver isn't there to hold the old chaos down.
>>94720298>Chernobyl fuck up is 40 years old?Almost.
>>94720298>Ah ok, thanks, shame it doesn't follow real life more.You can always make this the aim of your game.
>>94720266You could argue this railing against this system of control is the Wyld within us fighting the Weaver. The structures that bind society is pushing us to greater order and atomisation, it isn't the system that is trying to undo what we have, but the plebs.
>>94720300Eh, the US has way more than 3 now, though. That's what the ending of Metal Gear Solid taught me.
>>94720325That is a very shit take. At least in america, the average person want the old "atomizing" system back. It's the fuck-up in office and at the head of businesses driving anything and everything into the ground.The Weaver actually has the popular support, the people "railing against the system" are pentex executives.
>>94720303in wod the land in continously poisoned by the hive, a hive that has onef of the strongest wyrm totem G'louogh who is appearntly the boss of nexus crawlers and called the mother of all banes attached to it if it wouldn't be for the wyrm it probably would recover just like irlin fact given the wording in rage across russia the hive might have been in the reactor before the meltdown and may even have caused it
>>94720192Retaliation for W5, I reckon.
>>94720368Such a shame he got his ass kicked by worm and mushroom spirits by the modern day.To be real, the Hive details for the hive are for 90's-to-early-00's, it's very possible that hive is dead and buried by modern equivalent times.
>>94720325>>94720355The WEF branch of neolib progressivism is obviously controlled by the Weaver guys, why else would they want people to eat ze bugsIt's because a giant spider god is calling the shots
>>94720355I'm not American, but isn't Trump, and Bernie I guess, the reaction against the system? I thought his whole thing was not being one of them and return America to it's rightful ways, when it was more healthy. Let's totally ignore that Trump is part of the system, the important thing is his voters thought he wasn't. As I understand it both sides are deeply dissatisfied with America as it currently is. I very much doubt the average American is enjoying that people are becoming more sexless, lonely, friendless, and unable to afford what their parents could.
>>94720266>>94720266>Thing is, we really aren't. The economy is imploding, our social structures are falling apart, crime is becoming rampant, etc..Not really, most people are growing more miserable, but the system is more stable than ever. Who gives a fuck about the assassination of a CEO when profit margins are growing faster than ever.Profits will increase until morale improves.
>>94720417The guys that want a web of international bodies that connect and have authority over national governments are controlled by the Weaver? Say it ain't so.
>>94720418>but isn't Trump, and Bernie I guess, the reaction against the system?Yes and No, it's complicated.Americans don't have a problem with "the System" as it were, they have a problem with the people in charge breaking the rules to the detriment of everybody.There's actually a massive push for conservatism Because americans like the system and want it repaired, but they don't want the current fucks in office to be the ones driving it anymore. The people who don't like the system itself and want it changed to a more socialist system are an unpopular minority with massive social media presence.
>>94720153Living standards are still improving globally like they always are, any declines are purely microcosmic things related to specific cultural trends in specific countries.>>94720277>Even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that this is an exceptional hobo beyond being a traumatized veteran.Eh, not really. The only statted cop in cofd has 7 dice on his attack stat, that's the lower bound for people who have any degree of involvement with violence. He's exceptional by the "2 attribute + 2 skill for average professional" standard, but the statblocks we are given very clearly show that that is not the standard of the world."Hobo with a machete" is a specific reference to nwod player characters with a 4 + 2 (weapon) dicepool doing like 9 damage due to exploding dice and instantly killing a monster that they weren't supposed to be able to fight, anyway>But this raises another point. I got curious enough to start checking over the rules, and I can't find anything preventing the werewolf from spending Willpower on their Wits + Composure roll.You are correct, but the werewolf has to make a metagame decision to do so without knowing what it is spending the willpower to roll against. If the hobo gets eight jack terriers to ambush the werewolf one after another, or simply spends time repeatedly lurking in the werewolf's path without starting the fight, will he get to fight it when it's at 0 willpower?>According to Forsaken 2e, if the machete is silver do to foil and not do to being made out of it, it counts as an improvised weapon, so that's -1 to the dice pool.No, according to forsaken 2e if the weapon isn't a weapon but is made of silver it's improvised. Putting foil on a weapon is a seperate clause entirely. Per>Weapons with silver coatings only work for one damaging hit before losing effectiveness. A silver item not designed as a weapon counts as an improvised weaponRight?
>>94720436>the system is more stable than ever.Define "the system", because I think we're talking about very different things.
>>94720418It is controlled and ineffective opposition. OH, NO! THERE IS A NEW GUY ON THE CHAIR!What did he achieve beyond furthering the business goals of his backers? What the five guys before him achieve?
>>94720436>Profits will increase until morale improves.Which is why profits are falling and companies are imploding left and right? Anon, I'm actually a number-monkey for one of the companies fucking america in the ass, and the truth on the ground is that the numbers aren't pretty for the "Muh Profits" dumbasses either. Most of them will be bankrupt in less than a decade, profits are Down and stocks are up because of an impossible to maintain government buying program.If you overlay the stock market movement since 2008 with government spending on stock programs, is nearly 1-to-1, but with stocks Falling Short of the money big gov is pumping in.
This thread has now officially gone to shit.
>>94720484>What did he achieve beyond furthering the business goals of his backers? What the five guys before him achieve?Enough to write several books? Anon, the last five US presidencies have been a fucking roller-coaster of conflict and political maneuvering worthy of a greek tragedy.
>>94720496WoD is kind of the one game were IRL politics is relevant.
is there a way for other splats to become possessed without any of the downsides like vampire fomori?
>>94720448>they have a problem with the people in charge breaking the rules to the detriment of everybody.The system isn't the laws, it's the defacto actions of controlling bodies. The rules aren't rules if no one follows them, they are a mirage used by those in control. Trump wasn't presented as a conservative but a reactionary, in 2016 he was promising major reform to make things more like the good old days, not to keep things trucking. Conservatives want stability over everything which is not want the supporters wanted. There is nothing to repair, it is working in reaction to factor faced and structural incentives.
>>94720502The only thing that happened in those terms was 911, apart from that nothing has really mattered, it's just political theatre.
>>94720556>The system isn't the laws, it's the defacto actions of controlling bodies.It seems we have a fundamental incompatibility of worldviews. This means we're unlikely to get anywhere constructive in this discussion because we're going to be using the same words to mean very different things and largely talk past each other because of it.We'll have to agree to disagree.
>>94720568Anon, I don't have a word for how shit this take is. Your take is like cat-shit mixed with dog-shit wrapped in bull-shit and buried in elephant shit.If you seriously believe nothing of importance happened in the last 24 years, than I can only conclude you haven't been outside once in that time.
>>94720487A lot of companies are dying because a lot of people no longer have enough disposable income to interact with their industries. Like certain car manufacturers are losing a lot of money because a lot of people aren't going to buy a new car unless their current one is totally destroyed. The wealth is concentrating like it is supposed to.
>>94720582Fair enough, in my view the system acts and the laws follow, after all sovereign is he who decides on the state of exception.
>>94720614Anon, they were dying before the inflation happened. Companies take a long time to die when they're getting government kickbacks.
>>94720548>is there a way for other splats to become possessed without any of the downsides like vampire fomori?Yes, but it is stuff like "Power/Item 6, ignore consequences."
>>94720510Oh yeah, the global WoD fanbase at large is thrilled to read about some random Anon's take on IRL American politics in an Anonymous Malasyan Moving Picture Board.Because every single take about the subject hasn't been tackled to death in other places, and it *has* to be discussed here, extensively.If you wanna tackle IRL politics and WoD, maybe start with how none of the WoDtubers are relevant enough to leverage their e-fame to win even a local election in the USA/UK.FFS.
>>94720548There's a rite for changers to do this in W20 Changing Ways, but it also doesn't give them most of the benefits of being possessed.The only surefire way is having 6 dots in the "Summoning, Binding, and Warding" sorcery path, which for most splats means having a human sorcerer holding your leash.
>>94720605The only real things that have happened since 2000, was 911 and the Russo-Ukraine war. Nothing else has had any real impact, the world remains the same.
Pick a side:Tremere vs TzimisceVentrue vs Lasombrapicture not related
>>94720667For me it's the Radio Window
>>94720653My guy, WoD is literally about IRL politics with supernatural bullshit sprinkled in. One of the game's major selling points is that your boss/ceo/senator has parallel in WoD you can murder.
>>94720667Wtf are Microwave WindowsI thought they all ran on Linux.
>>94719728One day I'll find people willing to play Wraith with me.
>>94720683What tribe would moonmoon be apart of?
>>94720679Does WoD have a Parallel Dad that can say he loves you and is proud of you, too?
>>94719786>>94719821Why the fuck would Gaia like humanity after all the abuse?Would a mother love her children if they gangraped her on a regular basis?
>>94720694Nah, some things are inscribed into reality
>>94720687I don't know, I've always found the sessions were pretty dead on arrival.
>>94720704To be fair she started it, we are finishing it.
>>94720694>Does WoD have a Parallel Dad that can say he loves you and is proud of you, too?>World of DarknessOnly if he dies tragically to maximize the trauma his existence inflicts on you.
>>94720667Tremere and Ventrue.
>>94720548There are only two types of vampire fomori in W20 and they both have intrinsic downsides (though easily manageable if you're a powergay)>>94720667TremereLasombraSet is actual the correct answer to both questions though.
>>94720626Yes, business as usual.>>94720653This fan base is dying for a variety of reasons. One of them is the fact that not even the onion could come up with more ridiculous bullshit than reality, and even if someone in the writing team tried to acknowledge it the effect would just be controversy and a net negative for the series as a whole.
>>94720692Uktena or Wendigo.Because it requires you to install...(•_•)( •_•)>■-■(■_■)The APACHE Web Server.Yeeeeeeeaaaa
>>94720732>Set is actual the correct answer to both questions though.Snek detected. Main clan or bloodline?
>>94720045I just think it's hilarious how the game designed to appeal to the Otherkin community has the psych ward as a genuine danger for players.It's like making a game called "Transgender: the Reassigning" with a suicide mechanic.
>>94720704>>94720719>Would a mother love her children if they gangraped her on a regular basis?>To be fair she started it
>>94720734Is South Park dying?
>>94720704>Why the fuck would Gaia like humanity after all the abuse?Why would she like plants after they killed most of the life that existed as they formed?Just think in hippy logic.
>>94720734>the effect would just be controversy and a net negative for the series as a wholeOnly if the company moved to appease the weirdos. There's a long track record of companies who ignore the controversy doing extremely well.
>>94720704>Would a mother love her children if they gangraped her on a regular basis?Considering she created her children specifically to do exactly that, she's more likely to fall out of love if the cummies ever were to stop.Gaia is basically like a cosmic-scale version of lilith
>>94720510Only if you want to say "everything bad is the Technocracy's fault." Alternatively "everything good is actually bad and a psyop by the Technocracy."
>>94720732>Set is actual the correct answer to both questions though.fuck off and come up with a clan with a better gimmick.
>>94720741The existence of the Nagah makes me wonder if Set is just simping for a dead lover with all the snake motifs.
>>94720741Mekhet>Main clan or bloodline?Those are the same thing. Daitya and the mayans have the same disciplines and weakness.What I really want is obfuscate/presence/thaum, but I don't think it exists in owod. You can sell serpentis for thaum in Dork Ages but you lose obf.Maybe the truly redpilled take is to be a descendant of Sobek
>>94720753>Is South Park dying?fuck if I know.>>94720761Odds are there is a way to incorporate modern politics into the game, but it would require a lot more organization, authorial direction and thought than Paradox is willing to deal with.
>>94720763>Gaia is basically like a cosmic-scale version of lilithA useless, stupid, last-minute shoehorn ToJism?I thought Gaia was established on 1st Edition, Anon.
>>94720776It would definitely explain his undying hate-boner for the silent striders.
>>94720761Yes, skitizocire sells
>>94720801Lilith was part of noddist lore since at least 2e anon.
>>94720799It's a Billion Dollar franchise.It makes three times more money than Warhammer 40K from their ViacomCBS deal alone.https://www.bosshunting.com.au/hustle/deals/south-park-creators-trey-parker-matt-stone-deal/
>>94720799>it would require a lot more organization, authorial direction and thought than Paradox is willing to deal withSo the bare minimum to make a good product in general?
>>94720796>What I really want is obfuscate/presence/thaum,That's the Wiki Daitya.Seriously, it works better than the "real" version. Just show your ST the wiki and hope he doesn't find out your con. You know, like a snek.
>>94720811A lore book that is considered apocrypha and optional material?She only shows up there, on Gehenna, and where else? I think the Children of Osiris have a larger footprint on the printed material than her.
>>94720814>So the bare minimum to make a good product in general?Pretty much.
How was W5? I know V5 was trash, curious to see if they nicked the trend.
>>94720862W5 managed to be even worse than V5.V5 does have a few fans. W5? I have yet to see one.
>>94720883Grim
>>94720819I'm not bitch made, I can just play homebrewWe're a VtR group anyway. Reminder that the Requiem Setites are the only(?) way to get blood sorcery without being a not!bahari
>>94720862as always i am gonna point out that the offical wod discord had to forbid comparisons between w5 and older editions because w5 never looked good in thosethe best thing to come out of w5 was the community looking for the traced art
>>94720862>How was W5?Too bland to play it over any other version of the game. Transparent, if welcomed, change of topic aside, did any of the later books did anything interesting with their rules?Like a chronicle about being a lost cub since the nation is fucking dead.
>>94720901>offical wod discord had to forbid comparisons between w5 and older editionsKek, I've got to read it now.
>>94720862Crap, and sold like crap too.
>>94720895Nice edit.
>>94720915>Kek, I've got to read it now.Just ask about it on an alt.
>>94720862Unfortunately, right now V5 is the best of the 5th edition games. I fully intend to damn it with this praise.
>>94720933>CheckedDo you have any screencaps? I, too, am curious about it.
>>94720862In short V5>H5>W5V5 introduced a bunch of retarded lore, change the basic mechanics, and crippled player advancement to eternal "Street Level".H5 got rid of the basic premise of HtR entirely and is missing half the mechanics necessary to play so you end up needing to buy V5 as well.W5 retconed all werewolf lore to the point of being its own universe, actively punishes players for Playing, and amounts to being a "moping in the cairn" simulator.M5 is gonna be cooked.
>>94720912Nope.
>>94720819Not that anon but what wiki?
>>94720959https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Ministry_(VTM)#Daitya
>>94720941>Do you have any screencaps?No, I don't care enough about that server to save shit.
>>94720949I'm actually morbidly curious how they'll manage to fuck up M5 if the trend continues.
>>94720949H5 is frustrating as hell because it's basically going "Hey, did you like HtR over HtV? Too fucking bad."
>>94720949I am genuinely dreading whatever the fuck is going to happen with C5. They are going to fuck it up so hard, it's going to be a disaster.
>>94720974It'll be bland kind of bad, with magic making less than zero sense. The world will be sterile and boring; there will be a mechanical issue STs will need to fix.
>>94720974>>94720996It's going to be so bland people won't even get mad.
>>94720996I mean, that's assuming they remain solvent long enough to print it. I'm not even certain they'll last long enough to print M5 before they sell off the IP.
>>94720983>H5 is frustrating as hell because it's basically going "Hey, did you like HtR over HtV? Too fucking bad."it is almost as if they only put up with the name for brand reconition.
>>94720959>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Ministry_(VTM)#Daityathe white wolf wiki has them with Sadhana as in-clan but that's not from any of the books claimed as the sources at the buttom of the articlein other words, it's made up
>>94720996>>94721004The book will radiate enough banality to kill autumn people.
>>94720973Bummer :/
>>94721011Based Daitya and the power of illusion.
>>94721008Paradox, genuinely, are not at risk of running out of money.
Anyway, How would you use 2024 events in your games?
>>94721095Depends, we're overdue for a global stock crash. Paradox may be flush with money Now...
>>94721101What 2024 events?
>>94721101An internal civil war in the technocracy. The syndicate got infiltrated by nephandi, again, but this time they managed to infect the NWO as well.
>>94721107https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024Pic one write a plot hook. Roll 1d12 for the month.
>>94720417>WEF is Weaver>WEF wants you to eat bugs>Ananasi are Weaver-ish>Literally created to eat the bugsYou may be onto something very dangerous...
>>94721104PDX major stockholders are its CEO and one of his best friends from childhood, who's an investor banker type of guy.The stock market crashing wouldn't change shit for them.
>>94720862One thing I'll defend of it is moving away from spirits being openly aligned to any faction. Spirits are the platonic ideal of a thing, their actions should speak for themselves.
>>94719786So would it be incredibly ironic that Gaia chose a human (kinfolk) mage to become their avatar for my character?
>>94721109This is what I'd do. The sheer disparity in what M20 predicted and what is happening has to be acknowledged. They were wrong on every fucking point.
>>94721109I remember reading the section in the book of madness about how each tradition/convention/craft protects themselves from nephandi infiltration, and then the syndicate section just talks about how the Special Projects division is a gaping security hole and 'only about a third of the syndicate's internal police is part of organized crime'.
>>94721185its like the Pentagon, it can only get worse.
>>94721168>The sheer disparity in what M20 predicted and what is happening has to be acknowledgedNever got into mage, what did M20 predict?
>>94721151Yes and No. Kinfolk are gaia's favored people(AKA second class citizens enslaved to her Chosen people, the fera), so it could happen.However, the fact you're a mage makes it much, Much, MUCH less likely than say... your avatar, posing as gaia, is helping you LARP this event because it's her paradigm
>>94720862V5 was a toothless Vampire game.W5 is a toothless and clawless Werewolf game.And as many said before, H5 is a gritless hunter game.5th edition clearly doesn't want to be World of Darkness. It just wants the name.
>>94721320I know it’s up to the ST, but I feel like they would surely go with your take, while I would have preferred mine.
>>94720719>To be fair she started it, we are finishing it.ThisIf the werewoofs got their way the entire human race would be sent back to the stone age and kept in wildlife preserves at best or sadistic gulag murder funhouses/rape camps at worst, either way you're dying before 30 from disease or predation.A very strong contender for "worst end state" for any faction winning the World of Darkness.
>>94720667That's not entirely accurate, HF and lower bands (Up to 30 Mhz) can bounce off the ionosphere layer of the upper atmosphere pretty easily.
>>94721289Deep cope. Trump is just a phase, internet hate is a subculture and not endemic, the Technocracy cleaned up its act; the Traditions, as monoliths, are receding with their reactionary thinking even as it's in a brief uptick, and the world of ritual magic is destined to become more cosmopolitan. Basically, turbo-lib: radical left and radical right are fading in the rearview mirror and we're on our way to a better world.
>>94721470>A very strong contender for "worst end state" for any faction winning the World of Darkness.Maybe its just me but the "hell" endings start to blend together after a while.Also I don't care enough about the Garou to "buy" their victories.
>>94717819>>94717750>>94718034I think the only example with a totem as an avatar is the Owl Shards from m20 God's and Monsters.Its example is easily broken out into some other symbolic entity, such as a shard of a totem spirit. Gaia or any other potent spirit could have a variation on them.
>>94721540as the text says those shards are not from the totem owl they are from a entity called Big Owl " the embodiment of fearful hatred" and they choose people on their own without a higher power guiding them meanwhile owl the totem isn't into making people hateful at all it's the totem that calms and guides the dead after allthey are also not the avatar and can be purged from a mage without said mage losing their magic, it's just a magic parasite(classified as a lesser entity in that book) that makes you a asshole while giving your more quint
>>94721494In this case the worst case scenario is basically guaranteed in a total garou victoryIf the vampires completely win somehow there's a good possibility they just continue the current status quo, except now the people on top are *literal* bloodsucking vampiresIf the demons win, they don't like being in hell so why would they want to bring that to earthMost traditions and even certain technocrats can very well improve the worldThe garou, on the other hand? They killed so many people the entire human race has an in-built revulsion and fear of them. They tried to commit genocide on every other changing breed because they chimped out over not just being taught how to resurrect the dead because they asked. They chimped out so hard they actually managed to drive 3 breeds and a wererat tribe to extinction. They do nothing but constantly, violently fuck up all the time and if they bumbled their way to victory it'd be catastrophically joever for everyone.
>>94721115>DecemberOh boy. Do I want the Technocratic shitfits from South Korea, the Ahl-i-batin fighting Hayat Tahrir al-Sham or at least trying to get their sufi allies out of there, or the Christmas truck attack by yet another Technocrat-brainwashed plant.
>>94721633You just described what a spirit totem's avatar is. Just one of owl's aspects, Fear lol. You know the totem of the underworld garou. Besides, I didn't say use those retard. It's just the only example of Spirits replacing Avatars... And just like fomori are parasitic, something more Gaian or Wyld leaning may have actual symbotic goals.
>>94721640>wererat tribe to extinctionWait which one was this? Are they covered anywhere?
Have you guys tried playing any of these games solo? How did it go?I'm planning to use Mythic GM Emulator in order to play a solo KotE chronicle.
So the Kinfolk W20 book says that awakened can’t make kinfolk or garou out of humans. It is something out of their power.But would an awakened kin be able to raise kinfolk to garou? Also, if an awakened kin mates with another kin or a garou and use Life magic, could they make it a certainty that the offspring would be a garou?
>>94721771Yes. Its called the Rite of Sacred Rebirth.
>>94721640>If the demons win, they don't like being in hell so why would they want to bring that to earthDepends on which 'worships/are demons' faction you're talking about.Nephandi and Baali will 100% bring hell on earth.Any one Earthbound ending up on top is going to cause the world to descend into the cult of a mad god where every month someone in your village will be expected to sodomize a cat, eat someone's finger then cut their stomach open at exactly 45 degrees with torment riddled fallen as your jailors.And speaking of the fallen, whatever world reconcilers have in mind is unlikely to be bad, luciferians, cryptics and faustians can potentially be decent, while Raveners are gonna fuck shit up.However, this depends on whoever is in charge not to fall to their torment, a tall order for such fuckups. Else, luciferians are gonna treat humanity like cannon fodder, cryptics like guinea pigs and faustians like living batteries.
>>94721792Well what you’re talking about is kinfolk/garou sorcery. I’m asking about true magic. Like kinfolk are still attuned to the spirit world like garou, but they lack something to become fera. Would a combination of Life and Spirit make a kinfolk a true garou? Thinking about it, it could be a fun awakening. The caern is under attack, the enemies outnumber the defenders, and in desperation the awakened performs some kind of ritual dance in a trance that changes the kinfolk at the caern into garou. The tables have turned, but now there’s an awkward silence when many of your second class citizens have become your equal.Also, if I follow the W20 kinfolk right, if I want to be a kinfolk and an awakened I need to spend 4 freebies on the Supernatural Kinfolk merit. It explicitly says that they use the splats from the others… but other than that it serves no purpose. I guess it’s a merit exclusive to werewolf/kinfolk oriented games, because otherwise it would have been mentioned in the M20. Surely.
>>94721750A few. I always felt a little weird that my Ventrue PC's Agoge was done off-screen in a backstory so I solo RPG'd it. Used Tourniquet, the specific VtM rules for solo RPG-ing. It should be on the second mega if you wanna take a look.Was a fun experience. The oracles took me in directions I never would have planned (the antagonist wound up being a Brujah, which was so obvious I never would have done it on my own). Kept handing my Ventrue weirdly drinkable NPCs too and I really dug how the plot started falling into place. Made the victory via outwitting an older vampire that would demolish my PC in a straight up fight feel very satisfying. I've done a few others but idk, I sometimes get caught up in the decision making, especially when things aren't falling into place. They've felt messy in ways the first one wasn't. Let us know if Mythic GM emulator is good, I think I want if anything LESS control, so I can have a more normal PC experience where I dedicate my mind entirely to reacting as best I can to the information I have right now.
>>94721852>X20w20 and m20 are abridged versions of revised when it comes to rules. If you want edge cases, you're looking at the wrong sources.
>>94721640The funny part is how even if the nation wins by genociding everyone who isn't kinfolk They will just beguin to kill one another in 2 seconds flat.
>>94721862Can you use Tourniquet for other WoD games like Mage or Changeling?
>>94721892yeah to go back a bit to lucifer in days of fire he lines out a plan on how normal humanity can supposedly beat all the splats and for garou is to just not fight themthe will kill each other as soon as they aren't underdogs with a enemy just before them around every corner anymore and as soon as the perfect metis is born it's full on civil war, a war that will beat them down so hard that the humanity of the impergium 2.0 can then just wipe them outTo best the change-lords rule and writYou need not strength but speed of wit.For if you give them no fierce foe to rendWithin their ranks they once more shall contend.Two tribes arise where once were five and twentyOld nations split as factions rise, ignoring race and country.One question only splits their ranks:The status of the Perfect One.For some say it shall save them allAnd some say, by it be undone.Bide your time and feign meek waysBut wait until the thunder days, whenWeary of the lack of fightThe beast lords stride into the light.Encourage their mistrust and fearOpen eye and mouth and earAnd when the Pure Child’s lost or wonThe victor clan can be undone.
>>94721878I see. I was under the impression that it was the culmination of everything OWoD. I still have lots to learn.
>>94721908Most of the rules (in the 20th ed version I used as a base anyway) it adds are technically splat neutral. The roll charts for NPCs and stuff are very clearly for vampire so you'd need to make those yourself but otherwise it should work, at least on paper. Never tried it for anything else.
>>94721920It's more like a greatest hits version of OWoD. Really deep rabbit holes were mostly left in the past.
>>94721920its a bit of a mess! But a handful of m20 sources say to check older books even. I find stuff hidden in the fiction only books on occasion.
>>94721920to add to what the other anon said the 20th lines actual done town crossover stuff and it seems like you want to play a pretty crossover heavy character so i would recommend looking into some of the older books
>>94717899This gem of a question was sadly overlooked. My table's WoD is a mashup of oWoD and nWoD. Some splats are a mix of both (like vampire is 90% Masquerade and like 10% Requiem), some are purely one (Changeling is all Lost), some don't exist at all (neither version of Mage exists, though I'm working on a nWoD version of Sorcerer using oWoD Sorcerer and Witch Finders as a base, oomphed up to full splat level). Also, more custom one-off monsters than you can shake a stick at. Picrel is the vibe I want my games to have. One thing that isn't just a weird mashup of editions is ancient and lost civilizations. I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. I don't go full "hypertech ancients" or "magic kingdom" with it, but lost and sometimes more advanced than anticipated ancient civilizations lost to time and bristling with occult secrets is a favorite of mine. The flood was real, and it was Meltwater Pulse 1b. It's just the right combo of pulpy and not completely out of left field/impossible that it can add some spice to the setting without breaking suspension of disbelief.
>>94717899i talked about it before but monsters are way more common in my wod mostly i use the dark age mage bestary in the final nights but sometimes i port stuff from call of cthulhubasicly the woods in my wod are so dangerous that it makes sense for garou to hunt in packs and if a monster moves into the city members of most splats also sometimes come together to hunt them because nobody really benefits from a troll (and i also don't really feature ctd) or gug eating people in the streets
>>94721927>>94721936So much to read, so much to do. So little time.I’ll finish reading the X20 stuff first though >>94721937Well, I don’t intend to use W:TA mechanics for my own character. Or to a very minimum if it comes to it. But I do wish that my mage would coexist with werewolves. That’s why I’m reading both M20 and W20.Though ultimately a ST could just accept the fluff around my character and have it that no garous appears in his chronicle. Would be sad, but he’s the ST.
>>94721862Tried looking for it but didn't find any book under the name "Tourniquet." But I did find one called World of Darkness Solo Adventures.
Celestial Chorister who is kind of a douche. Sound fun or not?
>>94722133The 'My god is so much better than yours' kind of douche, or the 'I'm so much closer to God than you plebs' kind?
>>94722143The latter.
>>94721878M20 was so 2nd Edition-based that famously split Resonance into Resonance and Synergy because the author refused to read Revised and came up with his own "solution" to a non issue that had always been solved 15 years before.
>>94722174Humanity, forgive me...I’m about to provide my seed multiple times to start the next generation of Fera and kinfolk. I’m sorry.
Will I get some Black Fury pussy if I agree to let her peg me?
>>94720405That's what the Garou won't tell you. Mushrooms? of the Wyrm.>Eh, not really. The only statted cop in cofd has 7 dice on his attack stat, that's the lower bound for people who have any degree of involvement with violence. He's exceptional by the "2 attribute + 2 skill for average professional" standard, but the statblocks we are given very clearly show that that is not the standard of the world.A well fed cop isn't a hobo. They'd probably even out though, with the cop likely having slightly higher Strength but lower melee.>"Hobo with a machete" is a specific reference to nwod player characters with a 4 + 2 (weapon) dicepool doing like 9 damage due to exploding dice and instantly killing a monster that they weren't supposed to be able to fight, anywayFair>You are correct, but the werewolf has to make a metagame decision to do so without knowing what it is spending the willpower to roll against. If the hobo gets eight jack terriers to ambush the werewolf one after another, or simply spends time repeatedly lurking in the werewolf's path without starting the fight, will he get to fight it when it's at 0 willpower?While NPCs do have Willpower, it is mostly a tool for players. For example, I have seen NPCs spend Willpower, its uncommon, and I've never seen a ST burn through all of an NPC's during combat or a social scene, even when it's the best course of outcome. I'm honestly flabbergasted that you can spend Willpower on stuff like that, but thinking on it, it sucks just having your character get his head chopped off in an ambush, so it makes sense why you'd be allowed to do it. There is an exception in the Clash rules though.>No, according to forsaken 2e if the weapon isn't a weapon but is made of silver it's improvised.Do I have an old version or something? Mine says:>Weapons with silver coatings only work for one damaging hit before losing effectiveness. Unless a weapon is forged out of silver, it counts as an improvised weapon (see p. 168).
>>94722344Whoops, meant to link to this too: >>94720451I wouldn't have restarted this conversation after so long, but the wording difference bugged me.
>>94721852>Would a combination of Life and Spirit make a kinfolk a true garou?No?
>That's what the Garou won't tell you. Mushrooms? of the Wyrm.They get an entire urge wyrm basically just to themselves. Shiitake are probably more wyrmish than most pentex burgers.>>94722344>Do I have an old version or something?Maybe? My copy is just off the mega in the OP. Pg 101 is picrel.Is there an easy way to tell? I can't see an obvious difference in the copyright blurbs or back covers between the books and advance copies.>For example, I have seen NPCs spend Willpower, its uncommon, and I've never seen a ST burn through all of an NPC's during combat or a social scene, even when it's the best course of outcome.I mean, it insults my intuition if you're not going to spend all but one of your WP to try to stay alive. NPCs should be spending willpower anyway, otherwise players tempting them with vices or using powers that interact with willpower get shafted.Part of what I hate about cofd is the loss of versimilitude from taking NPCs off the same stat system as PCs and turning them into magic floating stat blobs like 4e (D&D) minions.
>>94722423Forgot pic lol
>>94721852There are only two methods that can turn someone into a Garou. The Rite of Sacred Rebirth and a Legendary 6 dot Alchemist creating a potion which transforms someone into a werewolf (this would require werewolf parts as primary ingredients, and may only work on kinfolk.). The first change isn't something that's dormant in all kinfolk like the awakening. It's like the idea of forcefully awakening a sleeper. It CAN be done, but it's always a faulty process that results in a failed product.
>>94722426>Silver, the metal of Luna, burns the UrethraYeah no fucking shit it's gonna burn if you put silver there.
>>94712816
>>94722462A lot of people don't realize how toxic and crumbly silver is, so it's not hard to imagine someone making the mistake. Plenty of stainless steel sounding kits, afterall.
>>94722492>This brother was stationed in some camel country where the public market sells what could be fancy letter openers. >Each fancy tool is just a thin rod of polished brass or silver, maybe as long as your hand, with a big tip at one end, either a big metal ball or the kind of fancy carved handle you'd see on a sword.>This Navy brother says how Arab guys get their dick hard and then insert this metal rod inside the whole length of their boner. >They jack off with the rod inside, and it makes getting off so much better. >More intenseIf you never read the story where this is from, well. It's one of those things that stays with you for a long time the first time you do it. Do try and hold your breath while reading it. If you can hold it until the end just take another big deep breath and keep holding it again.https://genius.com/Chuck-palahniuk-guts-annotated
>>94722423>>94722426I must have an easier version. I don't really have a problem with how NPCs are done per se, but they shouldn't be wildly off base from what a PC has. And yeah, they should be, but I've literally never seen NPCs spend it like candy in tough situations like PCs sometimes do.
Today I shall try to cheat mordred by having a Fate mage alter our contractWhat's the worst that could happen?>>94722659>I don't really have a problem with how NPCs are done per se, but they shouldn't be wildly off base from what a PC has.I do. I think it's a safe assumption that it's a consequence of the general owodification of cofd, where starting character supernaturals have an almost unbridgeable advantage over generic human NPCs.But I don't like this even outside of it's implementation. In owod, the baseline assumption was that you were a vampire (/supernatural) and human lives were cheap and irrelevant. In nwod, the default assumption is that you are just a mortal, and every human life is precious and every death is as much a tragedy as it is irl. I blame the LARPers more so than the GayMoron Chronicles for this, de su. Giving them full statblocks and normal rules makes non-player characters still actual characters and more importantly, real, first class, full members of humanity and the game world. 1/2
2/2Even when you were some scary ancillae, there was always the feeling that the hunters you were really afraid of weren't any grand conspiracy, but just like some primary school teacher who's fucking sick of you killing kids and stays up 70 hours in order to break into your house and firebomb you during your daysleep. When you don't give them mechanical equality it feels like they lose their right to life and self detemination, and taking it away no longer feels like the violation it should be.>they shouldn't be wildly off base from what a PC has.Most of them have largely appropriate stats but then there are glaring incongruities like having an arbitrarily lower base max willpower (e.g. 2 instead of the 7 they should have based on their attributes). It's especially strange when you see e.g. animals with 0 willpower. Do they just get the 0 willpower penalties at all times? I guess things that hit willpower just take effect straight away on a single success? It's just sloppily made beyond any thematic issues it raises.>but I've literally never seen NPCs spend it like candy in tough situations like PCs sometimes do.This is one of the things that does make me wish this was an irl social club and we could feasibly invite each other to games. I'd really like to play CtL with some parts of /wodg/.
>>94722813>Giving them full statblocks and normal rules makes non-player characters still actual charactersAs an ST, I encourage this in every game. I'm so fucking tired of having to make shit up on the fly because the writers were too lazy to give me any kind of limitations on their precious OC's capabilities.
>>94722432>and may only work on kinfolkWhich is why the alchemist used kinfolk blood to turn themselves into a kinfolk first. :PSeriously, don't try to nerf the non-sense parts of Sorcerer, there are just too many holes in the balance to even attempt that without a full rewrite. Said Rewrite is also unlikely to actually be Fun to play, like S20.Another funny Example: A S/B/W 6 Sorcerer is able to summon DtF's god into the mortal plain for less than 10 successes at Difficulty 9 and has an innate background that can give them up to 5 free successes. An archmaster of spirit would require 15+ successes at difficulty 10 to do anything similar.
>>94721771>Kinfolk W20 book saysIt's also full of shit. There's a canon Garou/Bastet hybrid monster created by a Progenitor who was just casually seeing if he could do it.Any time another splat tries to say "A Mage can't do X" they are full of shit.
>>94721960I would love to see your homebrew good sir.
>>94721731The Bards, it's why the rats loathe the garou even more than the other fera do
>>94722273>split Resonance into Resonance and Synergy because the author refused to read RevisedAnd also made resonance into a punishment. At it's most helpful resonance can affect 1 roll Per Story, while also acting as Anti-Arcane helping your enemies track you.
>>94721640>they actually managed to drive 3 breeds and a wererat tribe to extinction.Waaaay more than that. Those are just the ones people can still remember.The corax for example are said to have had many different bird shifter in lore, now Only the ravens are left(clanbook fianna).Every changing breed had its population decimated so badly that many of them aren't remembered by anyone but the garou, because they didn't even leave anyone to mourn their loss.
>>94723757>>94723757>>94723757>>94723757NEW THREAD!
>>94722280Anon, that's a kitsune. Every kid is a 50/50 shot you die instantly with no ability to resist.
