>>94723573
That book was pretty cool. Too bad not the trilogy was cancelled.

>>94723757
>TQ
No.

Finally got around to reading the Vampire Chronicles past Interview and goddamn is there a single original idea in VtM? They even got the Arcanum from here. Now I need to find the series they cribbed their WtA ideas from.

>>94723831
We all knew since day 1 VTM is basically Anne Rice's work.
Don't know why you act so surprised.

>>94723831
>>94723856
Interesting how it morphed from Anne Rice into Underworld.

>>94723856
I didn't know just how much of it was. Interview with the Vampire is just a book about a vampire. The rest of the series is something else entirely.

>>94723831
"Society of humans trying to study supernatural" isn't that much of an original concept since the dawn of humanity.

>YJK edition
based

>TQ
ST'd a game where a player was one of those chi-ghost immortals (purified, it seems). Intermediate length.
Played a cult-of-things-that-should-not-be leader in one game. Just me and another player, this was like a three shot I think. Player from the above game was the ST. We got our asses kicked by a dog for like four turns after the other gun downed the entire group of cops and vigilantes with a single full auto burst until I highrolled and the dog took like 18 lethal in a single turn, I will never not remember this fight and will continue to bring it up every time there's a relevant TQ.
Played a bloodbather who was ensorcelled by another PC (a Lost) in a different game, picked up a fat stack of supernatural merits from pledges as well. This was a pretty long game and probably the only time we had an entire group of <4 morality ratings outside of a oneshot.

Technically all HtV games qualify for the TQ in nwod/cofd terms.

>>94723573
It's the opposite. Mages can't do shit, it just means some spirit did it for shits and giggles and since he was inspired to do so by true magic instead of establishing a gift/sorcery ritual to ask him to do it again it cannot ever be repeated.

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>>94723831
I've got another confession to make.
I never have and never will read Anne Rice's stuff.
I don't care for sad gay Vampires and never will.
VtM to me is and always will be Trenchcoats & Katanas. That's the identity the game built for himself.
People tried running away from this in the Noo World of Darkness and 5th Edition, and it's the reason the only people that care about those two lines are people that make or made money out of them.

>>94723898
Yeah but "society of people who study the occult but only at a distance and don't want to do anything with the information" is more unique. You can't tell me that the Arcanum isn't just a more confused Talamasca.

>>94723831
they actually toned down the anne rice stuff later first edition even flat out told you that you can play in the Vampire Chronicles as a example for a alternative setting

i wonder if this has anything to do with Anne Rice having been the world biggest fanfic hater

>>94723866
Because underworld made Bank.

>>94723757
>Sorcerer
Sorcerers probably shouldn't be in this category for the same reasons Kinain shouldn't, They're relatively equal to their parent splat and even exceed them in many ways.
Sorcerers aren't even mapped cleanly to Mages no matter how hard the writers try to push that, they sit somewhere between Mages and Mummies.

>>94724058
i still find it very weird how Kinain and Kinfolk in mage cost the same as a merit... and less than being a ghoul

>>94724043
Underworld came out after oWoD was frozen in carbonite.

>>94723573
Mages can do anything, with conditions
To make a new garou you'd need at least Life 5 and Spirit and Prime 4 both and it would most certainly be a very vulgar godlike feat.
They can do anything but saying they can do anything *casually* is pure wankery

>>94724035
Which is funny, since the rest of the Vampire Chronicles feels like a fan girl developing an unhealthy obsession with Lestat and writing the wildest fanfiction imaginable.
>>94723963
Sad gay vampires is really only book one and to a lesser extent, the first half of book two. Book three opens with nomadic vampires clad in leather jackets and using their unnatural strength to ride motorcycles talking about how the older vamps that live in mansions are a bunch of flags who don't "get it", but uhh also stay out of their way because they'll stake you on sight. Only for them and the older vampires to get exploded by the awakened antediluvian using their mind.

>>94724143
Yeah, I'm not gonna read two entire books just so I can understand the third one, but thanks, Anon.

>>94724143
>Which is funny, since the rest of the Vampire Chronicles feels like a fan girl developing an unhealthy obsession with Lestat and writing the wildest fanfiction imaginable.
it's not just the books, she has a video on youtube where she said that lestat is a kind of dream version of what she'd like to be and how she never had to plot him because he would take her on a journey and even years later she still thinks about lestat and when she goes to a thearter, opera or city she knows in her head what he would think about it
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr5HN__jrNY
she talks about him like she nearly got a tulpa

>>94724082
It's because the writer only ever read VtM and Mage. I doubt they knew ghouls were pathetic even to other demi-splats.

>>94724194
So essentially, she's a fujoishi, but instead of being like an Anime Disney Adult, she made up her own OC.

>>94724222
tfw your oc will never be played by tom cruise

>>94724247
tfw you will never be as cray-cray as the person who plays your OC

>>94724324
actually i am fine with not being as crazy as mister scientology

I still wanna know what Clan Vesago (the persona used by Rod Ferrel, the VtM murderer) was. I have never found any claim as to what he was, but my money is on Toreador or Lasombra.

>>94724521
his embrace of heather wendorf supposedly involved hypnotism and magic so either he is a tremere or heather is a filthy secondary who doesn't know the source material

Lesbianism is weavercoded.

>>94723963
>People tried running away from this in the Noo World of Darkness and 5th Edition, and it's the reason the only people that care about those two lines are people that make or made money out of them.
Plenty of people actually play nwod you absolute fucking mong

Dare I say with splatbooks it's even a pretty good game.

>>94724607
Plenty of people also play with your mother, Anon.

>>94723831
> Now I need to find the series they cribbed their WtA ideas from.
fun fact rice did actually write a book about werewolves as tragic super heroes of the forest

but she did that in 2012

>>94724153
Interview with the Vampire is maybe the best work of vampire fiction, so much so that you are doing yourself a disservice if you do read it and then continue the rest of the series. The other books do not carry on with the world, or mood in the slightest. If you're not interested in it, then skip it. The Vampire Lestat is shit, only the last third is worth reading at all and even then it's only interesting. I'd advise everyone to skip it. The only thing you really need to know is that the previous books were published in setting. Both are biographies, the first for Louis who becomes irrelevant, the second for Lestat who is his sire. At some point Lestat met the two progenitors of the vampires, who have been living as statues for the last couple thousand years. Anything else will be explained in the first few pages or it's rather inconsequential.

>>94724643
Didn't Ana Arroz pass away in 2011?

>>94724730
December 11, 2021, anon

>>94724740
I, uh, knew that, I was just testing you.

Anyway, whattabout her Weewoo series?

>>94724577
The Tzimiscefags will never shut up if the actual murderer was a Tremere player.

I also find it funny that he used the term "coterie" when him and his gang behaved like a Sabbat Pack irl.

>>94722383
Why not? Garou are beings who are half spirits. A combination of Life and Spirit seems logical.

>>94722432
>>94723555
Well my reasoning is that kinfolk are already part spirit (a very small part), but not enough to be considered a fera. My logic was to use Life and Spirit so their wolf spiritual part would grow and be like the other garou, and remodeled their body so they could contain their new spiritual half.

>>94723573
I see…

>>94724973
>Why not?
True magic just isn't very strong, and garou are real besides.
>A combination of Life and Spirit seems logical.
The only way that would actually work is using spirit and correspondence to dial up a big enough spirit that was actually able to do it, but there's no way to actually compel it do what you want.


>>94724521
His sire wrote a book but I can't find a pdf.

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>>94725040
>True magic just isn't very strong

>>94725222
It's the bait-poster from last thread anon. He's very clearly trying to sperg-out the magefags

>>94688963
Did you get the .xcf bars set up? I'm interested in seeing the chart

>>94725040
I thought the whole concept of Mage was that their powers can remodel reality, but with great risks. There are some exceptions as to not screw over other splats. Like they can’t cure vampirism. Unless they are at absurdly high levels of power right under the Plot Device category.

Which is why I think it fits when the books says that a mage can’t turn a regular sleeper into a kinfolk/garou. It’s also why I ask questions about elevating kinfolk with true magic.

And now I’m told that non-awakened, or wizards that can’t reshape reality, are actually better than the mages?

>The only way that would actually work is using spirit and correspondence to dial up a big enough spirit that was actually able to do it, but there's no way to actually compel it do what you want.
I don’t know about Correspondence, but I’m not against asking a spirit for help. I was thinking of making one of my paradigm (or magic methods if I don’t have the right term) be asking spirits for help. If reality is a canvas, my mage is the brush and the paint. Then I ask the spirits, the hand, to paint the picture in my mind’s eye.

>>94725222
Asc has always been a joke, hate to break it to you

>>94724973
>>94725040
See >>94724140
You could theoretically compel the spirit if you have 5 dots in Spirit, or straight up make a new woof spirit with Mind 5/Spirit 5
We just need a Mage with at least 5 arete, though more likely 6 or more who is a master of Life, Spirit, Prime, and Mind, optionally Correspondence too. For a godlike (like 15+ successes in this case) vulgar feat.
But hey, if you can find a bored archmage willing to help you out in becoming your fursona it's doable.

>>94725264
You're replying to a bait poster, he's lying about what is/is not possible to trigger magefags

>>94725264
>I thought the whole concept of Mage was that their powers can remodel reality
No? You can overlay a false reality until it gets called out, with the gimmick being that you try to do things in such a way that it's hard to call out.
You might be thinking of MtAw
>Which is why I think it fits when the books says that a mage can’t turn a regular sleeper into a kinfolk/garou. It’s also why I ask questions about elevating kinfolk with true magic.
The former answers the later.
Sleeper/kinfolk/garou are real, so mages can't make them. You can't turn a sleeper into a kinfolk, or a kinfolk into a garou. You can turn a garou that hasn't had their first change into a garou, but that's not a kinfolk. They were different from conception.
>And now I’m told that non-awakened, or wizards that can’t reshape reality, are actually better than the mages?
That has always been the case. Reality is stronger than mages, sorcery is part of reality, so sorcery can be stronger than mages can be.

>>94725271
Are there even those kinds of archmasters floating around?

>>94725286
He's samefagging anon.

Which splats are most and least likely to have voted for Hillary?

>>94725271
That’s… a lot.

Though why Mind?

Well, I feel like it’s a bit over the top. Then again, I’m new to all this. In any case, it could be a great goal to pursue for my character. Instead of chasing ascendancy, my kin mage wants to replenish the garou ranks and win the war (they don’t want to be a garou themselves, they just want to contribute more)… you could even say that Gaia chose them in the ascension war so once ascended they could beat the wyrm! I like where this is going!

>>94725286
Oh…

>>94725297
How does it get called out when you cast a fireball and burn some people? If you don’t get immediately smacked by paradox, reality isn’t going to uncrisp whoever you blasted, right?

I agree that I can’t make them, but mages are able to affect them, no? Kinfolk have a percentage of them being spiritual like garou, but it’s like comparing a candle to a pyre. The idea is to manipulate that spiritual side and body so it becomes 50/50 like garou.

I was under the impression that sorcery while grounded in reality was weaker than true magic but is risk free… basically like the Tremere “magic”.

>>94725383
>If you don’t get immediately smacked by paradox, reality isn’t going to uncrisp whoever you blasted, right?
Kind of a salient if, there.
>but mages are able to affect them, no?
Sure, but what you're talking about isn't casting a spell on them, it's making them wholecloth.
>Kinfolk have a percentage of them being spiritual like garou, but it’s like comparing a candle to a pyre. The idea is to manipulate that spiritual side and body so it becomes 50/50 like garou.
Nigger you're just making shit up with no real relationship to how it works. You're trying to permanently alter life into some magical shit that was handmade by basically God. It's the same reason why you can't reverse or cause vamprism.

>I was under the impression that sorcery while grounded in reality was weaker than true magic but is risk free… basically like the Tremere “magic”.
Sorcery is stronger than true magic and is risk free, but is less flexible. The price tremere and other sorcerers pay for not having true magic is the 5 dots in 3 paths gives them a maximum of 15 non-ritual spells, whereas a mage with those dots in spheres can do completely freeform magic within their domain and powerlevel.
Sorcerers et al. just get to cheat on "powerlevel" much more consistently because they can consistently interact with real fixtures in the actual world, like a kinfolk being able to do a ritual that is actually powered by some shithuge incarnae. By the same token, the ritual can stop working for everyone in the world because the spirit who actually actuated it died or fucked off.

Most ideas that Asc mages are super powerful are based on completely ignoring what is written in spheres and just assuming you can do anything, but they're actually fairly limited. Life 5 + Spirit 5 can only make what are basically just fomori, not fera.

>>94724973
In Awakening, an archmage could do it with 7 dots of Spirit.

>>94725515
>Life 5 + Spirit 5 can only make what are basically just fomori, not fera
Fera are just degenerated gaian fomori though. It's very easy to build a fomori/kami/whatever that's indistinguishable from being a fera and give it the ability to reproduce more creatures like itself(Source: WtA: Possessed + WtA: Freaks Legion).

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>>94725582
>Fera are just degenerated gaian fomori though.
Got a page number for this? It sounds like reasonable speculation even without a reference, but it doesn't help the magefolk in this case either way.
>It's very easy to build a fomori/kami/whatever that's indistinguishable from being a fera and give it the ability to reproduce more creatures like itself
Of course (and pentex does this shit all the time), but that would just be a kinfolk fomori/drone, not a fera.
>It's very easy to build a ... kami
Kami are the direct creation of the extant hand of god literally interceding with the world and altering the subject. Spirit 5 does not even come close to being enough to control the things you would need as raw components. We're talking about this book, right?

>>94725515
>Kind of a salient if, there.
Forgive me, but I’m an ESL (French). What does it mean?

>Sure, but what you're talking about isn't casting a spell on them, it's making them wholecloth.
Compare the situation to legos. There’s already a set there. With magic you can reorganize them, or even change some pieces or borrow some from elsewhere.

>Nigger you're just making shit up with no real relationship to how it works. You're trying to permanently alter life into some magical shit that was handmade by basically God. It's the same reason why you can't reverse or cause vamprism.
Before loosing our marbles and go into insults, I want to point out that it is the W20 book that said that kinfolk also have a spiritual part to them. Which partially explains why they are so receptive to the pleas of saving the planet, that some are granted rites, and even more rarely some possess gnosis. Plus the Life Sphere is literally about altering life, or more precisely their patterns. Plus we had two examples of kinfolk arising to garou through the use of powers that are lower than “remake reality” level. So the idea of kinfolk who have the spiritual parts that mage cannot create, having those amplified and remodeled by true magic isn’t that far fetched.

>>94725687
>Kami are the direct creation of the extant hand of god literally interceding with the world and altering the subject
until a gaian spirit uses the possession charm, then things get weird.

Just all of the people arguing that mages can't do this or that, don't bother. Just accept that mages can do anything if they have enough dots in this or that sphere and that this makes them very uninteresting.

If they were more interesting, mage players wouldn't spend most of their time talking about how Mage interacts with other splats, they be more interested in Mage on its own.

>>94725721
On one hand, you're right and I agree with you 100%.

On the other, now we're gonna get another 50 or so posts screeching about how great Mage is and how you don't "get it".

>>94725692
>Forgive me, but I’m an ESL (French). What does it mean?
The most important part, usually the only part that actually matters or the whole point of doing/saying something.
>Compare the situation to legos. There’s already a set there. With magic you can reorganize them, or even change some pieces or borrow some from elsewhere.
This is a complete non-sequitur.
>Before loosing our marbles and go into insults, I want to point out that it is the W20 book that said that kinfolk also have a spiritual part to them. Which partially explains why they are so receptive to the pleas of saving the planet, that some are granted rites, and even more rarely some possess gnosis.
This is a complete non-sequitur.
>Plus the Life Sphere is literally about altering life, or more precisely their patterns.
Yes, and life 5 only allows you to alter complex life. Magical creatures made by God are outside of that scope.
>Plus we had two examples of kinfolk arising to garou through the use of powers that are lower than “remake reality” level.
No we don't. The sacred rebirth is on the level of "literally actual God actually creating reality on a fundamental level" because it was baked in when kinfolk were invented. Skin Dancers also aren't actual garou.
>So the idea of kinfolk who have the spiritual parts that mage cannot create, having those amplified and remodeled by true magic isn’t that far fetched.
It's completely alien to anything that exists.

>>94725721
>can't defend his position, has to piss his pants and whine while declaring that he's God and can do anything without a single reference to any book ever published
lol
lmao
You will never be Awakened. MtAsc will always be a joke and you will never be able to actually do magic or be actually relevant to the setting.

>>94725582
>(Source: WtA: Possessed + WtA: Freaks Legion)
Gaian kami can't reproduce, only fomori have a listed power to reproduce and only 1 type of gorgon has even a lore-only ability to reproduce.
It'd be theoretically possible for an Autonomy 10 fomori to happen and pass on its condition though.

>>94725692
NTA but I see several problems outside of the possibility of Garou creation. Firstly, any Garou made by a mage and not Gaia would be exiled and probably sent on a suicide mission, even if they were kin. Secondly, if your character did want to help in the war effort, making new Garou (a difficult process even for the most proficient of mages) would be incredibly vulgar; it would be a terrible waste of your time and resources.

>Hey, sept Elder, I want to use magic to make new Garou from our kin
>What the fuck no, that's heresy. You would assume yourself equal to Gaia?
>I could call Gaia and ask her to do it for us
>If she wanted to make kin Garou, she would have done it at birth, the answer is no. Keep asking and it's going to end badly for you.

Your role as a mage in Gaoru society is as a Shaman. Make Fetishes, heal the sick, and work to weaken the Gauntlet by bolstering the wild. Destroy Banes in the Umbra, destroy Fomori and use your magic to conjure money for the nation to use. The Garou are grunt soldiers, you are a wizard.

What are the most memorable PC Etherites you remember from playing MtAs?

>>94725786
>If she wanted to make kin Garou, she would have done it at birth, the answer is no. Keep asking and it's going to end badly for you.
Yeah, that's why apis were specifically created to ensure changer births, but gaia wanted to have to make every changer by hand herself.
Not disagreeing with you, I just hate how fucking retarded the garou are written to be.

>>94725040
>>94725265
>>94725721
>>94725763
I thought such level of samefaggotry were impossible.
Just hating and gooning, gooning and hating the entire day. Did Brucato fucked your wife or something? Get a life you fucking loser.

>>94723757
>TQ
I wish I could play as a Nephilim (Descent)

>>94724058
>Kinain
Are they really that powerful?

>>94725805
I had an NPC who was a German Celestial Master who got stranded in time on some off-planet base right before the Big Misunderstanding Part Deux started. My idea for him was to have a Reverse Captain America—he wasn't a Soldier, he was a scientist, and, while deeply patriotic, laughed his ass off when he found out the Third Reich lost, as he was part of the Hoherzollern family, and hated the NDSAP with a passion.
He was technically a Sorcerer's Crusade character and was a Time Master who had been alive for many hundreds of years now—most of that time spent on that off-planet base were the PCs found him, time flawed differently there through Magickal Means—and his last surviving family (as in direct descendants) was a Jewish girl that was dating one of the PCs (the Hermetic) and was the whole reason the PCs found him.
Later, as he readjusted to life on Earth, he decided to stick with the Traditions—as the Union had deliberately left him stranded in time—and join the Sons of Ether. Thus, making him the only Son of Ether character I ever made for a story.

>>94726043
Interesting NPC, anon.

>>94726043
>Hoherzollern family
Any special reason to use them?

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>>94723757
Never played VTMB, these two are just the same woman with split personalities right? Confused because a quote from the game acted like "they" were embraced separately.

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Do Vampires know their exact generation? I used to think that most of them doesn't. I mean, sure a Ventrue might know it or some with low single digit gen, but when you move further, I'm pretty sure it gets more muddy. One might have an idea, an estimate, a guess or a feeling. Am I wrong?

>>94725767
>The most important part, usually the only part that actually matters or the whole point of doing/saying something.
So you were saying that paradox will always smack the mage no matter what, and the fireball wouldn't have been cast in most cases?

>This is a complete non-sequitur.
>This is a complete non-sequitur.
Why is that?

>Yes, and life 5 only allows you to alter complex life. Magical creatures made by God are outside of that scope.
Then I think it's a good first goal for my mage to reach Life 5 then! Since at chargen the highest you can go is 3, working hard to reach 5 seems fun.

>No we don't. The sacred rebirth is on the level of "literally actual God actually creating reality on a fundamental level" because it was baked in when kinfolk were invented. Skin Dancers also aren't actual garou.
Is your argument that it isn't possible because it's the writters who have written that part as lore and nothing more?

>It's completely alien to anything that exists.
Seems pretty fitting for mages (at first glance)

===
Well, I'm just new into the setting of Mages and Werewolves. Until now I've mostly just looked at vampires. I don't feel like I can argue much more than my initial pitch with what little I've read.

>>94725786
I really like your take. It would make for a great character development.

A major theme of kinfolk is about knowing your place and what you can do in the war effort. A kin who suddenly got a way bigger role, perhaps even greater than any member of their sept (leader and elders included), and wants to do more and more... but even if Gaia allowed them a greater role in her plans, the kin has yet to learn humility and the practical use of their talents. Even if they wholely believe in their heart and soul that they're doing it for the sept, this is not heroism but ego. It is a form of selfishness to want to take every responsability and be the only one to suffer consequences.

>>94726099
>trusting the word of Malkavian...

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For people that have run or played Mage: the Ascension, how does your table handle casting time (extended rolls, rituals, etc.) and number of successes needed (do you divide successes among factors, or let successes apply to several/all factors)?

My Vampire ST is looking to run a Mage one-shot (more likely a handful of sessions), and while I've been trying to help him grok the game, my Revised-era knowledge is from almost 20 years ago and M20 is... oddly written. And the How Do You Do That book is somehow even messier.

>>94726109
Those from decent clans usually know.
Brujah, Caitiff, Gangrel and similar trash usually doesn't.

>>94725786
>If she wanted to make kin Garou, she would have done it at birth, the answer is no. Keep asking and it's going to end badly for you.
Also I asked in the previous thread, but would it be possible for Life and/or Spirit to ensure that the offspring of Garou x Kin or Kin x Kin would be a Garou? Or raise the odds to a higher degree (like between 1/4 to 1/2).

>>94726109
Ventrue are expected to be able to cite their lineage as a part of their rite of passage, but in the end, it's very dependent on your group.

Some groups like to keep things very vague and difficult to determine, and even the Ventrue are likely just guessing or making up their lineages, with almost no one knowing their true generation and just guessing at it instead.
Some groups enjoy making generation more important and absolute, where it's something that is commonly discussed, well-known and clear, that everyone has a strong understanding of.

Are mages immune to the whole Delirium thing the garou cause on humans?

>>94726035
Depending on how high their fairy blood background is, they can learn from 1 to 6 arts and they can learn all the realms. Considering most NPCs don't even get to 6 arts, they aren't much weaker than changelings.
Their main weakness is that they can only hold 2 glamour max and don't have a permanent glamour score, but unlike changelings they regenerate 1 glamour a chapter(which is 1 glamour an day in WoD time, changeling doesn't have VtM's terminology to in-universe time translation guide for some reason). This weakness becomes a complete non-issue after acquiring the 5th dot in contract because you become able to give yourself effectively infinite glamour by swearing minor oaths.
Unlike changlings, kinain are immune to banality, so you can kick autumn people in the nuts at no issue(other than legal issues anyway).

>>94726140
The issue with that kind of play is that there's very real in-universe science that get measure generation in exact detail. Being hand-wavy with generation doesn't really work as well when you can have a medical checkup to know for sure.

>>94726121
Don't play M20 is my first recommendation. The writer mixed and matched rules from 2e and Revised at random, and the supplements contradict each other about which set of rules they copy/pasted from previous editions.
HDYDT and Forged by Dragon's Fire 20 both have examples that contradict their own rules in every section.
Just play Mrev and avoid the headache.

You don't have to be that higher gen or hang out with other anarchs to be an anarch right?
Would some really old elder vampire who got sick of politics and just went off alone to slum somewhere anonymously count as an anarch?

>>94726156
Per Werewolf20, mages and other nightfolk would be immune to Delirium. However, Mage books suggest that you need certain merits or magic to be immune. This may be an example of a crossover power-up, like how Imbued hunters in the Vampire corebook can do Agg damage, but in Reckoning they merely do Lethal.

>>94726199
>Just play Mrev and avoid the headache
I'll pass that along to him. Has your table stuck mostly to Revised rules, or are there any house rules or tweaks you might recommend?

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>>94725889

>>94726225
>You don't have to be that higher gen or hang out with other anarchs to be an anarch right?
Correct.
All you need is a low IQ or a weird sense of humor.

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>>94726076
I wanted a German last name with a cacophonic sound, and Hoherzollern's pronunciation is cartoonishly German while also being easy enough to point out to my players that it is, in fact, a real German name. Jürgen von Hoherzollern was his full name. The Jürgen part, very obviously, has come from Jürgen Klopp, who is also the inspiration for the character's personality.

>>94726231
Stuck most to revised honestly. M20 was one of the early sign of the clusterfuck parawolf was about to turn into.

What are the chances Trioxin is a shelved Progenitor project?

>>94726121
Don't engage with M20. It's got volume, but it's quite confusing. You can steal from it as much as you want, but I don't recommend running it.

As for successes, etc, we use Revised rules as they have an easy to follow sheet for damage-duration-range, etc. My original ST was a teacher, and he developed a mnemonic to drill how spellcasting worked into our group so we wouldn't take long to figure out our spells, but, sadly, the mnemonic does not translate into English.
We tried coming up with other mnemonics for figuring out Sphere levels and whatnot, but everyone knew exactly what their characters could do so that wasn't that big of a problem.

>>94726121
>Casting time
I have a few house rules.
"Easy" spells (Max Sphere rating used is at least two less than the mage's Arete) take one turn, no penalty for quick-casting.
"Normal" spells (Sphere rating used is one less or equal to Arete) take one turn under "normal" circumstances. If the scene is meant to convey quick actions (for example, a shootout or fist fight where each individual action takes two seconds or less) then it takes two turns on average or one if quick-casting which adds a +1 difficulty penalty.
Under all of those circumstances they can take one extra turn in order to reduce the difficulty by 1. Obviously they cannot quick-cast if they do this.
>Extended rolls
Context dependent but usually up to the ST to decide. Some will be based on Willpower, others on an Attribute. Usually one entire dicepool per turn.
>Rituals
Depends on the ritual. Some will take "days", others a few turns.
>Successes needed
For Rituals, Wonder crafting and such the books give examples of successes needed for them. The ST will generally assign a number of successes needed as these are "all or nothing" more often than not.
For spells I usually do the old success table. 1 = Borderline failure (your fireball is small and you burned your hand making it or it's weaker than you intended), 2 = Barely a success (your fireball is small or weak but at least it hits the opponent), 3 = Success (your fireball works fine), 4 = Big success (your fireball deals extra damage), 5 = Great success (your fireball is so big it hits multiple opponents), 6 = Unexpectedly great success (your fireball is huge and sets everything around it on fire). Shit like that.
>Factors
Not sure what you mean but for simplicity sake, any "factor" that may affect any form of magick I simply treat it as a difficulty modifier.

>>94726253
It's always the Hohenzollerns, never the poor Fürstenbergs...
Well, I suppose it's like the Medicis for Italy.

>>94726231
>Per Werewolf20, mages and other nightfolk would be immune to Delirium. However, Mage books suggest that you need certain merits or magic to be immune
Willpower roll then

>>94726231
>However, Mage books suggest that you need certain merits or magic to be immune
Care to share the reference, please?

>>94726121
>>94726295
Casting time has nothing to do with the complexity of the spell but with what your Focus for it is.
If your spellcasting requires a power word and a motion, you can do it in one turn. If it requires chanting an entire song, it's gonna be more than that.
If it requires material components you do not have, you're essentially doing it with No Focus.
If you need more than one turn to cast a spell and you only have one turn, you do it with No Focus.
Simple As.
This method rewards players for developing their Paradigms thoroughly—have a one-turn spellcast setup as well as infinite-loop rituals to get several successes for the same effects.

>>94726156
Every other supernatural is immune to that shit, I hand wave this entirely because the debuff doesn't add enough to fights involving them.

>>94726351
My focus is drawing sigils. I can do it on paper, on my phone or even on thin air because I have good spatial imagination.
Would the complexity of the sigil affect the casting speed?

The Garou are really fucked if they fuck with a sufficiently influential Technocrat.
Irradiated Silver gatling guns. Firing from a helicopter.
What can a Crinos do against such firepower designed specifically to kill their ilk?

>>94726179
You have to be vivisected alive for that science lol

Is this sudden influx of obnoxious Ascension fans due to that Norfolk Wizard Game thing? I thought we outgrew this sort of magefaggotry years ago.

94726458
Here's your (You)

>>94726267
>>94726281
>>94726295
I appreciate the responses.

To clarify about factors, I think that's terminology I borrowed from Awakening for things like Damage, Duration, # of Targets, etc. So in Revised, 5 successes on a fireball would be divvied up with 1 hit needed to project the flame, 2 hits to affect two separate targets, and 2 hits to determine the final damage.

>>94726327
>Willpower roll then
Aye. That's the best approach, I think.

>>94726109
It isn't innate knowledge, no. If you never knew your sire, or your sire lied to you, then you might even be wrong about your own generation. But you can reliably find out with Thaumaturgy, and if someone succeeds/fails at Dominating you (or vice-versa) then that gives you some clues as well.

Mage worked better when it was just going to be Willpower-based Thaumaturgy as originally intended in Hunters Hunted.
Maybe with the modern spheres and old Arts as new categories.

>>94726427
No, you literally just have to stand on a scale and use disciplines while the scientist calculates the weight of the blood you're losing.
They go in detail about the methidology in the Thinblood book, because that's how they explained people in-universe knowing thinbloods take twice as much blood to power disciplines and have a supply of blood that they can't use except to rise at night.

>>94726415
Jam Technology. Rank 2 Homid Gift. Range is limited, but that's when you also bust out Spirit of the Bird (Uktena), enlist a friendly spirit to give you a lift, or pull some other shenanigans to get into range and make the Technocrat's tools useless (and helicopter crash). Or deliver pinpoint counter-fire if you're a Glass Walker or other tech-savvy Garou with things like Trickshot and Apecraft's Blessing.
Arguably, even if all you have is Jam Technology, it may reduce the effectiveness of the bullets. A Homid-born werewolf ignores silver in Homid, and the bullets themselves won't do damage once in the Jam field; the radiation is the only remaining threat.

However, a "sufficiently influential Technocrat" is still a nightmare for the Garou, so long as they make use of their influence. Assemble a task force of Border Corps (to lock down the Gauntlet and prevent hostile crossings), Progenitors (to provide bioweapons), and NWO (to help you surveil the targets ahead of time). Werewolves are difficult to fight in open combat, they have to be harried and isolated in order to hunt them effectively.

>>94726570
Two dots in Spirit disables all gifts though.

>>94726415
>>94726599
That's why I hate Magefags. They always always bring everything down to "A mage can defeat your splat, if he has x dots in Shit than it's an auto win." Seriously, fuck off with your powerwanking fantasy. No one is interested in that.

>>94726553
they go over how people don't listen to him too

>>94726382
Yes, you need to be able to draw real fast if you wanna do it in a single turn. Buy lots of dots in the appropriate Abilities and off you go.

>>94726415
Do it like that Talking Heads song and Run run run run, run run run awaaaaaay

>>94726533
Those are Sorcerers.

>>94726647
No one is interested in your retarded weaksauce opinions either, and yet you keep screeching it ad nauseum.

While I dislike V5 in general, I like the idea of giving beginning PCs 1 discipline dot plus 2 dots of merits to create their own "predator style".
Thanks for reading my blog.

>>94726864
Creating your own Preadtor Type is interesting, but I see many fanmade Predators being too specialized or some what of a subcategory of a official Predator.
Kelly Black's San Francisco V5 has some interesting ideas for Predators, but some of them has these feelings I described.

>>94726895
>Kelly Black's San Francisco V5
Could you share it?
I think the ST should remind the player not to be too focused, but having the PC screw up and start a rigid routine to get blood could lead to interesting stories.
And for me, it's the Siren.

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Since this thread is going to devolve into magefagging anyway I might as well ask about some niche build I will probably not play anytime soon. How do I make a familiar/pokemon master character without unnecessarily slowing down the game?

>>94726917
Go on the STV content folders on OP and you'll see couple of folders.

>>94726895
Most of them are a bit to broad to flesh out without steping one another's toes.

How often do you commission art or go to a drawthread to ask for some? I know some anons posted art here and there. Got curious 'cause I was counting how many arts from drawthread and commission I got from my game. I counted 16, with 1 on the way of production and 1 being a 3-page comic I count as one.
Don't know if many anons here do the same.

So let me get this straight: Garou don't even fuck other Garou. They either fuck wolves or humans, sometimes dogs if they're Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers.
But also apparently they're all about making babies and have serious trouble finding love.
Does that mean females are pregnant as often as reasonably possible?

>>94726969
Shaman. More information in "Spirit Ways", but essentially if you make a pact for the totem background you can start collecting spirits as companions and aids. Your totem and familiars also level up with you as you invest in the backgrounds.

>>94727001
Yes. Especially black furies, but they're the tribe that makes you wear the collar.

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>>94726994
I mostly used aislop but I've grown tired of it.
At this point I'm just going to learn to draw again.

>>94726864
>>94726895
Predator Types were a mistake.
Your Vampire, by definition, needs to feed.
How it does that is as important as how it defends itself, or what its backstory is, or how it looks like
You don't get extra stuff for picking up a concept or defining that your character has a shotgun or a sword.
It's like the Edges from H5 but slightly less retarded.
I don't know what type of retarded player V5 thinks it's gonna play the game that they need to pick one out of 5 ways to feed at character creation otherwise they might end up with a useless Vampire that can't feed.
You can tell the mechanic is retarded because you can apply it to things like Concept for example. Pick 1 out of a list of 10, gain some extra stuff based on the concept, and if you want to play a different Concept you have to homebrew it.
It's fucking stupid.
And, just to piss off the Magehaters here:
Imagine if you had to pick your Magickal Style or Paradigm out of a list of 5, or 10 specific entries.

It's a mechanic for babies, essentially, and it accomplishes nothing. None of the other editions needed that crap.

>>94726969
>6969
>Nice
Have all your Pokemons be Spirits and be a Dreamspeaker type of character.
We literally had a Djinn that we summoned through a Ruby back in the chronicle I played in high school, and we used to call him our Little Pokemon.

>>94726994
I don't give a drawer at my house to the hoe I'm sleeping with until it's at least a few months into our fuckery and I don't commission art of my characters until I've been playing them for some months too.
Usually, my characters' appearances are derived from someone who exists IRL, so I hardly ever need to commission any art.

>>94726969
i am gonna go against the norm here and mention that etherites do have spirit and wraith traps that can be used as pokeballs

it would probably make it harder to control the spirit though

>>94727029
I mean, it's a way to incentivize flavor via mechanics. And it's not like you're going to be useless because of what type of predator you are. It is, after all, primarily about what your character prefers in terms of feeding.

>>94727001
Honestly it would make more sense for Garou women to be discouraged from pregnancy. They're much more valuable as weapons than as mothers. That or only fuck wolves so that they have shorter gestation times and give birth to litters.

>>94727001
>Garou don't even fuck other Garou
So you’re assuming Metis just come out of thin air?

>>94727099
>They're much more valuable as weapons than as mothers
Half of the Black Furies would agree with you, the other half would have already vivisected you after uttering that statement.

>>94727114
PMS is a hell of drug.

>>94727092
It gets players to visualize an important part of being a vampire consistently. Every character in V5 gets some thought on how they feed and how that affects them, rather than fading into the background.
It helps to make feeding more interesting than a pit stop.

>>94726647
Idiotic Vampirefags like you are the reason I'm gonna end up writing an M20 guide for the STV on how to make a Vampire with all its drawbacks and whatnot using Mage's rules.
Your entire gameline fits on Mage, but the opposite is not true. The same thing goes for Werewolf.

>>94727092
>>94727125
None of the other editions needed that. If you can't understand that your VAMPIRE needs to feed from reading a 300 page book called VAMPIRE, I dread to think what other stupid shit you're gonna make in game.
This is a game line for adults not for 6 year olds that never seen a Vampire movie in their lives.

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>>94727103
>So you’re assuming Metis just come out of thin air?
Tangential as fuck, but would a metis embryo still result in a metis if they were gestated by a surrogate mother? do we get metis2 if the surrogate is also a Garou?

>>94726969
Conceptwise you can do whatever, not just Dreamspeaker shaman.
It could be something as traditional as a Verbena Druid or DS Shaman or something as strange as an Etherite spirit-geneticist, Hollow One cryptozoologist or Virtual Adept Digimon Tamer.
As for building your character: First you want as many dots in Spirit as you can get and you want to start looking for friendly spirits willing to work with you. Obviously your Paradigm will be extremely important for the rest of your spheres and how you'll use your spirits, but if you want to "manifest" them you may want to consider one of the pattern spheres. Life if you want to give them biological bodies and Matter if you want to give them non-biological ones. Maybe invest in appropriate Abilities too (i.e. if you want your pokimans to be plushies or wood puppets you can put dots in Crafts). Any pattern sphere also benefits from Prime.
You need Spirit 4 to bind spirits to objects btw.

>>94727145
>>94727092
>>94727125
Needing Predator Types is like making a character with a concept like Musician and having your ST approve it without any dots on anything related to making music.
V5 is a line for handicapped, mentally challenged people who aren't expected to be able to make decisions.
This type of play is reinforced by mechanics like Hunger—Oh you wanna DO SOMETHING? WELL, THAT'S TOO BAD.

>>94727103
Aren't metis a massive taboo?

>>94727145
It is not necessary, it just a useful prompt to anchor the character into the vampire niche.

>>94727162
Metis are like inbred children.
The fact you're not supposed to cum inside your cousin doesn't mean people out there won't do it.
Even IRL, there are some laws against this type of stuff, and is generally super frowned upon.

>>94727162
Like anon said >>94727168, that’s the reason most Metis are treated like shit by most Garou.

>>94727164
Useful like training wheels on a bicycle.
The only people that need 'em are people that don't know how to ride the vehicle.
Except on V5, you're forever expected to keep your training wheels.

>>94727162
yes, but most garou only really spend time with other garou and only see other garou as equals so it still happens a lot more than it should

>>94727156
Careful friend, that sounds dangerously close Wyrm thinking if you think you can trick Gaia.

>>94727156
Depends on at what point the spiritual aspects of the kinfolk/changer equation is added. It could be during conception or development, we don't know.
What information we do have from werewolf books that talk about DNA's research and mage books with progenitors looking into it shows trying to clone a metis results in a corpse(other breeds just produce kinfolk of the appropriate breed)

>>94727182
It's almost like a creature that lives in the outskirts of cities, near the woods, and only hang out with their own Kin, are somewhat Redneck-coded.

>>94727185
>Wyrm thinking
Weaver thinking you mean? The wyrm would want you to stuff a bane in an existing werewolf or torture it to death, not create a production line of the same creature copy/pasted a million times.

>>94727162
Not really, it is like having a mistake baby. Sure everyone is going to make a huge deal about it because "that's not supposed to be done and one of them might be the anti christ" but even the most lobotomized dog will hesitate to actually punish the parents beyond lowering their status because 99% of Sects have a hundred bigger problems to deal with and creating enemies over small things is how you get killed by the Dancers.

>>94727168
>Metis are like inbred children.
The irony of this when it comes to silver fangs is probably noticed by every tribe But the silver fangs.

>>94727185
I'm not trying to trick anyone. I just have a morbid curiosity about just weird you can get with supernatural eugenics.

Idea based on all those people who complain Garou aren’t like “real” werewolves as seen in movies and TV shows. Pentex’s first attempt at a Mockery Breed, development kept secret from the BSD for obvious reasons. A virus that is basically the werewolf curse.
>Painful transformation during full moons
>Can pass the “curse” through bites and scratches
>Loss of control during transformation
>Look disturbing, mostly flesh with patches of fur
>No Gifts, but physically stronger and more resilient than the average Garou
Basically the werewolves of American Werewolf in London, Ginger Snap, Howl, and Dog Soldiers. Deemed a failure because subjects could ultimately not be controlled. Project officially terminated, but some subjects managed to escape.
Thoughts?

>>94727251
I like the idea. I'd have a lobotomized cyborg one as an end of chapter boss fight.

>>94727251
>all those people who complain Garou aren’t like “real” werewolves
These complaint come from midwits that have Zero knowledge of mythology and get all their information about werewolves from monster movies. Like that anon a few thread back trying to pretend mummies were supposed to be animated corpses like in D&D.
Their opinion can be safely discarded and the only reason to talk to them is to publicly shame them for trying to infect more people with their willful ignorance.

So to continue with my kinfolk mage, would a werewolf tribe allow the mage to use the caern (node) to replenish their quintessence?

Let's assume Children of Gaia, and the kinfolk mage is part of their tribe and use their power to help the tribe.

I don't know much, except that I think werewolves use the nodes to replenish their gnosis too, so I guess it might go like a lion's share? Garous get to use the ressource first, then if there is enough left the mage is allowed to use it.

I'm asking because I wonder if I should pick Node as background.

>>94727251
Easiest way to built it is as a specialized fomori. Freak Legion even has powers for spreading bane-possession via blood/sex/bites

>AAAAAAHHH HELP ME HELP ME!!!! PAYING TAXES IS KILLING MY FAE SOUL AAAAAAAAAAA
Hmmm, perhaps Kiths and I aren’t so different after all.

>>94727325
>would a werewolf tribe allow the mage to use the caern (node) to replenish their quintessence?
Hard NO
Garou would be jumpy about letting a mage know their caern exists, let alone enter. Even if they're kin.
The reason for this is because mages permanently damage nodes they draw from, draining them until nothing is left. No garou will Ever allow a mage to do that to their Caern. Ever.

>>94727325
Garou can't consume Tass, so that's a start.
Also, a Mage and a Garou do the same thing at Caerns/Nodes: they meditate.
It's not like there's a Meter on a Caern that Garou can check to see how much Quintessence has been consumed from it recently.

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>>94727330
Just move to a country with lower taxes.
Like Monaco, maybe.
>INB4 muh vat
Most people don't actually live there.

>>94727345
That's not how Nodes work.
They emit some Quintessence per X time units, and if you don't take it, they start forming Tass.
If Caerns are just Nodes and Garou replenish Gnosis in the same manner that a Mage absorbs it—by meditating—then the Garou are doing the exact same thing a Mage is, eating up its Quintessence.

>>94727325
>would a werewolf tribe allow the mage to use the caern (node) to replenish their quintessence?
No. They hate mage because their magic breaks reality, hurting Gaia, and their use of Nodes/Caern ends up draining it, killing a sacred place for Garou (and Gaia) for good.
If your Kinfolk Mage gets Node as background, not even Children of Gaia would allow you to take care of it. Not even if you buy a Children of Gaia Garou as your True Love wife. They would take the Node from your character and no discussion on that.
However, if I was your ST, I would say your Garou family would allow you to take just a little bit of Quintessence and would scrutizine you everytime you go there.
In the end, it's up to the ST.

>>94727317
Based & Gaianpilled.
Nice stuff, Anon.

>>94727376
Mages don't kill Nodes dude.
Think of Nodes like a garden hose of Quintessence that never stops.
The manner in which a Mage absorbs Quintessence from a Node is by meditating on it to regain up to 5 Quintessence points, depending on how much Avatar dots they have, and my consuming Tass which is the unabsorbed Quintessence that takes shape around an unused Node.

>>94727325
>would a werewolf tribe allow the mage to use the caern (node) to replenish their quintessence?
That’s actually one of the major reasons why Garou hate Mages, actually. You see, even other Garou have to do a rite to use the Caern, and on top of that, has to get permission from the local Garou. A Mage, who has no idea about delicate Garou politics and how “sensitive” they can be about anyone that offends them, just sees a Node, and uses it’s life force to replenish their Quintessence. It’s like fucking their girlfriend in front of them, and then immediately turning towards them with the most shit-eating grin and saying “Thanks for the meal, bruh”. To say most Garou would overreact to this is an understatement.

>>94727369
nta, but while that's true the garou don't know that all their stereotypes are about mages fully draining cearns so that's what they will expect will happen. Might be because the largest part of mage/werewolf crossover was the whole circle of red thing story line where a group of infernalists nearly wiped out the mediterranean garou but garou as a people seem to be against teaming up with mages even dream speaker tradition book (rev) says that this isn't really a thing

>>94727369
M20 changed that anon. Nodes now have a maximum amount of quint that can be drawn from them before the degrade into a lower level node. They aren't Quintessence factories now, they're just reservoirs. Just like how Familiars in M20 don't consume paradox anymore, they just store it externally.

>>94727408
>>94727376
>>94727345
Very clearly, none of you have read Mage and don't know how Quintessence is absorbed or how Nodes work.

Teaching Red Talon females the pleasure of human dick

>>94727404
I'm going by Werewolf perspective on the matter and other quotations about Mage draining Nodes, both from Werewolf and Mage books.
You can say whatever, but at same time there are books that contradicts you.
Because, well, it's WoD. It's just like that.

>>94727431
Well, I mean read any of the Tribe Books for that Tribes’ opinion on Mages. It’s mostly negative.

>>94727429
>M20
Stick to Revised, M20 is fucking awful.
It's inconsistent with its own rules and has a lot of bloat.

>>94727431
The things they mentioned are how the Garou think mages work according to the WtA books. The werewolve don't know shit about True Magick and aren't really interested in being proven wrong by people they think are caern-rapers.

>>94727429
Another reason to never leave revised.
Why the fuck was V20 and C20 the only ones they got right?

>>94727345
omg, if it's killing the node I'd rather not.
The concept is basically an awakened kinfolk with Gaia (or a fraction of her?)/Totem of Gaia as their Avatar. Harming a caern, even destroying it, is an extreme no.

>>94727347
Well, if it's just meditation and nothing dangerous and stupid, it's not bad. Though if there's only a limited quantity produced per day, there might be something like >>94727376 with supervised siphoning. Though again, if it destroys the caern then I just won't take the background

>>94727408
Well, my concept is a kinfolk mage. They are part of the tribe (children of Gaia since they are the most tolerant of their kinfolk). They live with the garou, possibly has been to the caern.

>>94727446
He clearly only read Mage for the system and ignored other books and perspectives.

>>94727455
When you want to do this kind of crossover, you have to find a mid-term. Anon wants to do something related to that, that's the best that can be done using both sides and not "Everyone is stupid and Mage is right". Deal with it.

>>94727446
Are we discussing opinions or mechanics here?

>>94727444
>trips
You CAN absorb Quintessence with Prime Magick so that you can hold more Quintessence in your Pattern than your dots in Avatar would allow you to hold normally. But you can't grab more Quintessence than it's available at the Node at any given time.

>>94727429
Did m20 CHANGED that, or does it have an Optional Rule for that? Can you post the rule here?

>>94727468
>Harming a caern, even destroying it, is an extreme no
>if it destroys the caern then I just won't take the background
I think you should talk with your ST about that, anon. Discussion here about this specific subject isn't going to be more productive than what you have now.

>>94727468
>omg, if it's killing the node I'd rather not.
Depends if you're using M20 or not.
If yes, then harvesting from the caern will only end in your character living a very short and painful life.

>>94727469
Go fuck yourself.

>>94727469
>"Everyone is stupid and Mage is right"
Would you point to exactly where an anon said that in this thread? I think you're seeing something no one ever mentioned or meant

>Want to play a WoD chronicle
>Only one in my group to truly understand the appropriate tone
>Rule of cool/grim dark edgy with occasional moments of gonzo encounters
>Forever stuck as the ST
I DON’T WANT TO PLAY A VAMPIRE SOL, BUT THAT’S ALL ANYONE ELSE IN MY GROUP KNOWS HOW TO RUN APPARENTLY FUCK THIS SHIT

>>94727468
Is your game a Mage or Werewolf game? Did your ST ever played Werewolf or Mage game once?

>>94727481
I think you're right

>>94727486
though if I were going with a middle road (personally instead of the ST), I think that emptying the reserve of a node and perhaps sucking even more quintessence might damage the caern. While passively absorbing some of it is alright. Otherwise there probably wouldn't be any node left with every mage sucking the energy out of them.

>>94727468
This is why crossovers are such a headache.

Depends on what chronicle you’re using this character for, WtA or MtA? For MtA, your ST can just hand waive that the CoG are okay with you using the Caern as a Node, so take the background and appropriate merits. For WtA, you could play as Mage, and same as before, CoG are okay with you because you’re “one of the good ones” lmao and your ST has to deal Sphere magic mechanics.

>>94727508
Mage.

The ST has played VTM before. They sent a werewolf antagonist once, but I don't know if they used the WTA book. My ST is flexible but also rigid. Putting it in D&D terms, he'll allow subclasses from any official books or perhaps even Unearthed Arcana, perhaps even homebrew stuff he made himself. But if it's not from official sources (or if it came from our own imagination) then it's no.

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How close can I make WtO chronicle to Bleach?

>>94727532
Did you talk to him already about this concept? And you having doubt about him reading WtA is another flag you should mind. Maybe he's just using Werewolf from Vampire's perspective and things could go way different you imagine.

>>94727567
Impossible. Play Mage and everyone is Euthanatos or Akasha.

>>94726415
>ywn be a 10-ft tall Crinos murderbeast beating a HIT Mark 5 with a floor lamp in a flat after disabling its chain gun with Rage-powered attacks

>>94727567
>How close can I make WtO chronicle to Bleach?
Just play Exalted.

>>94726599
Thought Spirit was a forbidden Sphere for Technocracy.

>>94727611
They have Dimensional Science instead of Spirit, which is same thing.

>>94727567
You can get surprisingly close actually.
The soul society would be a japanese far shore run by a specialized form of Angelics(Soul Reapers). The ritual soul reapers use to take wraiths to the soul society(konso) removes their shadow much like how archangelics to(but with less violence)
Hollowfication would be their term for becoming a spectre.
Soul Reapers would be would be souls that went through Konso(don't have a shadow) that mainly practice argos(Shunpo) and specialized tempers/alloys of outrage and pandemonium(Kido), that wield a powerful form of relic that grows with the user(relic background that explicitly allows spending XP to improve the relic)
Hollowfied soul-reaper regain their shadow(The power boost comes from suddenly gaining access to shadow dice)
On the other end, Hollows are an animalist form of spectre without a psyche. They specialize in Larceny and odd forms of Moliate tempers to devour other souls for power.
Arrancar are "redeemed" hollows that have regained their psyche and gain access to Psych dice and a signature relic similar to a soul-reapers.

>>94727611
It’s not. It’s just reframed as the “Dimensional Science” Sphere, in true Technocratic fashion. They aren’t Spirits, they are entities from another dimension.

>>94727590
>>94727606
The anons that get triggered by mentions of anime have no imagination, as always.

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>>94727618
>>94727626
Progress finds a way.

>>94727429
>>94727480
So. I checked the ENTIRE core book.
There is no such thing as a limit before downgrade.
There's the introduction of WELLSPRINGS, which are temporary Nodes.
The mechanics work exactly like they did before, M20 even goes out of its way to establish what is the level of Caern that a Node represents.

>>94727567
gotta be pretty hard wraiths don't really combat well compared to other splats and while they do have relics you are usually taking several of them and they don't really work like bankai

with the exception of ichigo they are also all lacking in anything resembeling in shadows

you could probably make it work making a group of japanese wraiths fighting plasmits and specter cults, but yeah exalted or maybe a underworld heavy kote chronicle are probably a better fit

>>94727651
>with the exception of ichigo they are also all lacking in anything resembeling in shadows
Every single Vizored had a hollow they have to wrestle for control with.
Wraiths without shadows aren't a new thing either, that's exactly how ferrymen operate.

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>>94727567
>tfw you realize Quincies are literally just Celestial Choristers
THEY EVEN USE PRIME FOR THEIR VOLLSTÄNDIGS

>>94727662
>Wraiths vs Mages
>The wraiths won, Twice
I fucking love this.

>>94727590
Yes and no I haven't talked about the concept in details yet. Though I mentioned interest in it when I was reading through the M20 manual. Especially when I was at the merits part, and one of those mentioned having garou ancestry.

Though I guess I should expect a no if it requires him to read the whole WTA book. Or he'll simply tell me that he'll run the werewolves his way and that I should stop reading W20... or he'll just ignore the werewolf part. All those possibilities happened in the past with other characters. Though them being ok with it happened too.

>>94727635
No, its just one of those cases where you need to ask yourself "why am using this system?".
Honestly, what does WoD have over other systems in this scenario?

>>94727623
How would you model the "Spiritual Pressure" aspect?

>>94727700
>checked
Why do people play the D&D adaptation of Cyberpunk but won't play Cyberpunk, Anon?
Install base matters most.

>>94727700
It's an attibute-based xp syste rather than a class base xp system at the very least, so it's several league better than many other games out the gate.
Second, the setting is a kitchen sink with mechanics that easily allow you to model a large variety of franchises without actually sticking out. Even though the writers will screech insistently about StReEt lEVeL, classic world of darkness is all about the same campy weirdness that spawned many anime like bleach, soul eater, etc, on many levels.
Anime like Bleach are also very focused on the introspective, psychological stories WoD's storyteller system is geared for. Bleach at it's best was all about psychological horror.
Don't let the modern idiots pissing on the franchise trick you into thinking WoD isn't a great system for this kind of thing.

>>94727716
And that is supossed to be a point in favor of doing it?

>>94727567
I didn't watch Bleach, Anon, so I can't help. But I probably wouldn't use WtO as a basis for anything Anime‐inspired.
MtAs has more flexibility, and Exalted is literally made for this type of content. I don't know how Exalted 3rd edition is, but Back In My Day it had much more complex combat rules, using ticks and whatnot for measuring who gets to attack after performing which action etc, kinda like a dynamic initiative system a la Final Fantasy X.

>>94727700
Because the Bleach RPG system is shovelware shit.

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>>94727732
You asked Why and I explained Why. That is all.

>>94727736
first time i even heard that this is a thing

>>94727702
Probably a pandemonium or outrage based temper/alloy that reduces the dicepools of everyone in a radius by the difference between the total dots in the wraith attributes and the total dots in the target's attributes. If the difference exceeds the target's willpower, then they also take a level of aggravated damage that can't be healed until they leave the wraith's presence.

>>94727758
Me too.
>>94727736
Care for a short review, Anon? Would be appreciated.

>W5 got it’s own Night Road VN, Book of Hungry Names
>Some decent characters, can easily be translated to W20 as NPCs
However
>One returning character reveals exactly how Paradox envisions M5
Paradox needs to lose the WoD IP IMMEDIATELY!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL

>>94727730
>It's an attibute-based xp syste rather than a class base xp system at the very least, so it's several league better than many other games out the gate.
Again, you can use Exalted, Scion and Deviant with the same benefits while having to modify and create a lot less shit.
If you are that attached to the engine, use ExWoD and take everything you can from the Abyssal and Infernal books for translation to get a similar effect without having to write a whole splatbook worth of house rules for a single chronicle. From there you just use whatever lore makes sense to you.
I am just amused by how much effort the guy wants to waste.

>>94727757
That's fine, I just don't see the reward of doing that.

I think CtD is the only WoD splat that DOESN’T actively encourage murder hoboing.

>>94727771
>Care for a short review, Anon?
It was a fanmade D20 hack cludged together when 3.5 and the Bleach anime were both popular. Everything is stilted, gimmicky and carries all the problems a D&D hack inherits.

>>94727800
you mean the verbana mage that works on changeling logic for some reason? the guy who write the choice of games ... games is not working on the trpg books

>>94727801
My guy, why are you so convinced those are better systems for running bleach that you won't even entertain the idea of it happening in wod?

>>94727824
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKbxnW8BpI

>>94727733
>I don't know how Exalted 3rd edition is
It's dogshit. Stick to 2e.

>>94723831
Tzimisce and Vississitude lore were also cribbed from Brian Lumley's Necroscope series.

Werewolf was largely 'inspired' by Gary Bradner's, "The Howling," and Whitley Strieber's "Wolfen."

>>94727849
>The latest editions of wod, d&d, shadowrun, and exalted are all shit
When does it end anon? When will new shit be good shit again?

>>94727858
When it is personally written by me and contains are MY fetishes.

>>94727833
It is just the fact that you need to twist both parts into pretzels and the lack of any interactions that would make the game worth it to me.
Other people have already pointed out how to translate the lore so run with it.

>>94727690
Well, better talk to him now before you go too deep on this character and disappoints yourself when he denies your concept.

>>94727800
However, Paradox has a saying on what goes and what doesn't on the VN, so it's either somewhat PDX vision for M5 or the writer did a very bland Mage to avoid confrotation with PDX.

>>94727868
You know what? That might be it. Old editions were bursting at the seems with the author's barely disguised fetishes, and they were great. Authors passionate about what they make actually has benefits.
Modern bullshit is so censored and half-assed that it reads like a badly formatted phone book in desperate need of an editor.

>W20 art direction
Great, soulful even
>V20, Wr20 art direction
Decent but serviceable
>M20, C20 art direction
Ugly, what the fuck were they smoking?

>>94727868
Based futa-lover, ntr-pilled, furry enjoyer.

>>94727881
>Great, soulful even
And copy/pasted from earlier books in most cases.

>>94727881
this is just how the art from onyx path deteriorated over time, not sure about exalted but scion 2e has the same ""art"" style as m20 and c20 to the point where they are interchangeable

they seem to try and fix that for their new lines (even hiring Cobb for the world below) but the lines that have this horrid style seem to be stuck with it

>>94727881
Another point in favor of fetish-writers producing better quality art.
VtM and WtA have the majority stack in WoD's horny authors and artists.

>>94727771
Not that anon, but it´s probably either an japanese ttrpg or one of these fanmade western system. That said I also want a look

>>94727868
I will not play your scat WoD editions

>>94727927
See for yourself if you're so curious: http://bleachd20.wikidot.com/table-of-contents

>>94727904
See this: >>94727894

Garou Females MUST sleep with Human men. Gaia decrees it.

>>94723963
>Trenchcoats & Katanas
That's Mage.

VtM was Anne Rice's Godfather meets Lawrence of Arabia.

>>94727939
Do you honestly believe the old WtA writers weren't horny as fuck?
I challenge you to read Breedbook: Bastet and try to keep that opinion. One of their most common gifts is literally to make themselves more breedable.

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>>94727959
I mean, have you met a furry?

>>94727936
Nice, something to do after breakfast. Thanks anon

>>94727949
>>94727959
>Corrupted black furies often become submissive breeding slaves as they reject their ideal of equality and dominance(original book of the wyrm)
>Rokea enter an evelasting breeding frenzy the moment they exit the sea and touch unsea/land(Breedbook: Rokea)
>Purebreed actively encourages you to breed your sister, not only to maintain your purebreed rating, but also because it's mechanically impossible for you to find anyone of lower purebreed as attractive as your own family(WtA all editions)
>Kinfolk exist purely to dominated and repeatedly bred by their fera masters
I'm siding with >>94727980 WtA is horniest splat-line by far.

>>94728022
Let's also not forget that the black furies are a parody of wonerwoman and the amazons, oly with the twist that they aren't immortal so they're obligated by: >>94727949

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>>94728049
>wonerwoman

>>94728049
"Parody" might be a stretch. Both of them are raging female supremacists that get to avoid the obvious pitfalls of their ideology because they have literal divine intervention preventing them from being killed off by their own retardation.

>>94727878
>Well, better talk to him now before you go too deep on this character and disappoints yourself when he denies your concept.
The story of my life. I can’t help but falling in love with concepts and settings and ending up disappointed afterwards

>>94727959
I know I’ll regret it but it’s too funny to pass up. Go on, explain this gift

>>94728022
Geez, can it go even further?

>>94723757
How much is known about cofd tokyo or Japan in general?

>>94728155
Japan got a cringe mage write up.

>>94728143
>Go on, explain this gift
Freya's blessing. It's a level 3 gift that in the "Common" gift line for bastet, which is a pool of gifts bastet have separate from breed/tribe/etc. that Every bastet have available to learn to the point it's common to learn them from other bastet rather than any spirits(which is why they don't list a spirit that teaches it).
The effect of freya's blessing is that you can roll Gnosis dif 7 to guarantee pregnancy for yourself or woman touched(men can use it on themselves at +1 difficulty to guarentee their next partner gets pregnant).
Considering the garou equivalent is level 4 and requires you lose a Permanent Gnosis every time it's used, Bastet are essentially breeding machines in WtA terms.

>>94728196
[2/2]
*the garou equivalent is also tribe-limited to the black furies and is a ritual for the children of gaia for some reason
To continue, bastet also have several common and tribe specific gifts that explicitly do things like force you to cuddle them, cause orgies, bless/curse pregnancy, etc.
Add to that fact that 90% of the art is bastet women showing T&A at various angles and you can practically hear the writer cranking his hog from somewhere beyond the pages.

>>94728196
>>94728217
That’s funny. Though does the resulting pregnancy guarantee or raise the odds of breeding true?

On an unrelated note, Bastet are by far the most common mage consors as outline in their Breedbook: Bastet and Ascension's Right Hand.
For no particular reason I assure you. Honest, Scouts honor!

>>94728231
No, that was an exclusive thing for the Apis. They were the only fera that could guarentee changer kids and were very helpful until they were killed to the last in the war of rage.

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>>94728232

>>94728238
Ah yes, the constants of nature. Water is wet, Stars are bright, and the garou fuck up.

>>94728238
The Garou were gaia's greatest mistake. I genuinely thing the world of darkness would be a better place if they were never born.

>>94728296
the simba or ajaba atleast would have done the same thing if they been the the garou's position

gaia needs to revise the fera base template and think really hard about the whole rage part

>>94728238
Was it a high level power to guarantee that fera breed true?

>>94728296
Well a war without soldiers can hardly be fought, even less won. What was needed perhaps was another breed made to wrangle them into order. And not dependant on rage.

>>94728314
Should have made Ents

>>94728341
>Should have made Ents
She did but the writers realized how bullshit any insect fera would be so they got deleted before the game begun.

>>94728346
Ents, like Treebeard

Why are Mage female players always fucking freaks?
>Player wants to start putting dots in Life
>To heal the party right? Makes a lot of sense you guys don't have a healer
>Yeah but I also want to give myself and other character bigger booba and booty
>... you two are already at appearance 5
>idc I want bigger tits

>>94728392
technically already included with kamis those can be people, animals, plants or whole places

>>94728439
Probably trying to match the level of freak vampire players have

>>94728439
Based Bimbo

How the hell did Rage even work when the world was pure? Because in the books Rage is described as a feeling of revenge against the tarnishing of the world. If the world isn't tarnished and there is no action to take, what happens to Rage?

>>94726114
>So you were saying that paradox will always smack the mage no matter wha
No.
>and the fireball wouldn't have been cast in most cases?
IF you get smacked by paradox, probably yes.

>Why is that?
The fuck do you mean why is that?
It's some random bullshit you've written with no relation to the conversation or the books.

>Is your argument that it isn't possible because it's the writters who have written that part as lore and nothing more?
No?
>Seems pretty fitting for mages
I mean anything exists in terms of descriptions of what mages can do.

>>94726127
>would it be possible for Life and/or Spirit to ensure that the offspring of Garou x Kin or Kin x Kin would be a Garou?
I very much doubt it.
>Or raise the odds to a higher degree (like between 1/4 to 1/2).
Yes, but it wouldn't be life/spirit.

>>94727134
I'm sorry that MtAsc doesn't give you real magic lole, but this is some peak cope.

>>94728628
>I'm sorry that MtAsc doesn't give you real magic lole, but this is some peak cope.
How do you define "real magic" anon?

>>94728641
Being able to cast spells and have it actually do anything

>>94728499
>>94728606
Both of my female players are quite fond of derailing plots to do mildly slutty shit like that.
The stereotype of ttrpg women is true.

>>94728647
As opposed to Ascension allowing you to do literally that?

>>94728653
There are a narrow range of effects your spells can SEEM to have in Asc, and explicitly, your spells can't actually do anything

>>94728657
... have we been playing the same game or reading the same books?
Your spells allow you to do literally anything as long as your understanding of magick allows for it. From creating life to manifesting nuclear explosions from thin air. You can do everything and anything.
Do you have some source for your claims? Because it honestly looks like you misunderstand the fundamentals of MtA anon.

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>>94728615
that is kind of the ur question that wta never anwers "what was the fera's job meant to be?" for example some mostly red talons and some shadowlords garou say the Impergium was the right call and should never have ended some, mostly stargazers, say or rather they think they know because of pic related but don't tell the other garou, that the Impergium caused the weaver become insane in the first place and caused the entire imbalance of the trinity and was the worst thing anyone every done and the Mokolé have a completely different mythology from the rest and don't really give a shit about humanity

so what is the "should" state of the world? even the toj apocalypse book does not give a single answer in one scenario it's for the weaver and wyrm to fuck and then make a new world (so is the wyrd the problem?) one says it's the stone age, one says it's the modern world if the wyrm wasn't acting out

>>94725889
>>94728238
>>94726127
I honestly find the idea funny that woofs fucked it up so much that Gaia has to act through a mage and not repeat the mistake of making another breed of fera. They killed the Apis? Fine, have a wizard do it instead. Let’s see if they like it. Wonder if they’ll learn their lesson this time.

>>94728661
>... have we been playing the same game or reading the same books?
I'm pretty sure you haven't read the books at all.
>Your spells allow you to do literally anything as long as your understanding of magick allows for it.
No, they have very clearly defined limits even within the realms of what magic can produce the illusion of. Sphere are hard limits, and narrow in scope and weak in power. You can't exceed your grasp.
Magick also doesn't actually do anything, by definition, but that's only relevant for niche cases like e.g. trying to make fera.
>Do you have some source for your claims?
The mage book.
>Because it honestly looks like you misunderstand the fundamentals of MtA anon.
It's cute how you try to muddy the acronym and steal valor from actual mages that can actually do magic.
You haven't even read the spellcasting rules of Mage the ASS, you can whine about how impotent you are after you actually have.

>>94728670
>(so is the wyrd the problem?)
Creation has always been the problem.

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>>94728845
>The mage book.
Show me.
So far you've made a lot of claims but provided no evidence.
>Sphere are hard limits
Which you are meant to mix and match in order to produce powerful effects.
>and narrow in scope and weak in power. You can't exceed your grasp.
You don't play with lego bricks for their individual features, you use them to build whatever your imagination and pieces allow you to. More Arete and dots on spheres mean more pieces.

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>>94728926
>Show me.
Literally just read the spheres you complete fucking retard.
>Which you are meant to mix and match in order to produce powerful effects.
Which are still limited by the hard limits of the spheres.
>You don't play with lego bricks for their individual features, you use them to build whatever your imagination and pieces allow you to.
Which has literally nothing to do with how Asc works.

Nice cope.

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>>94728938
Explain to me how "ascension works" according to you, because so far you've been incredibly vague and your "evidence" merely shows that a Mage's ability to alter reality is tied to their understanding of magick.
What you posted literally tells you a mage, using just one sphere, can transform into any form they please - they need to however create additional effects for every physical trait that this new pattern would have.
>Which has literally nothing to do with how Asc works.
It's literally how it works. Freeform magick is the whole point of the system, you're supposed to combine your spheres to achieve effects.
If you add conjunctional effects to the idea of transformation magick, the mage can turn into a radiation breathing three headed dragon with adamantium skin.

>>94727114
Yes but this is true for any tribe regarding any statement. Don't hang around with Garou, they're fucking retards.

>>94728998
My evidence shows the literal hard limits of what you can do with a sphere.
No amount of whining impotently in this thread will change that.
>What you posted literally tells you a mage, using just one sphere, can transform into any form they please
Yes, purely cosmetically.
>they need to however create additional effects for every physical trait that this new pattern would have.
Which, for all but a trivial list of traits, they cannot ever do.
>It's literally how it works.
Not at all.
>Freeform magick is the whole point of the system, you're supposed to combine your spheres to achieve effects.
And what effects you can achieve are subject to the hard limits of your spheres.
>If you add conjunctional effects to the idea of transformation magick, the mage can turn into a radiation breathing three headed dragon with adamantium skin.
He cannot.

You've been completely blown out of the water and your only response to direct quotes from the book is to block your ears and cry about it.

>>94727936
There's a 5e version too
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LkO8VBLAIck6JlLwS_7

>>94727325
I'd say no. Most tribes wouldn't even let kinfolk on caern grounds. The CoG do, and usually only during ritual occasions, but even they would probably start raising hackles over a mage, even their own mage, using their caern. No Garou can deny the thousands of legends about the dangers of that. You could still do it, but realize the tightwire you'll have to walk. If a Wyrm creature is secretly sapping the caern and someone notices the minutest corruption, you will get all the blame.

>>94728657
Your lack of creativity shows and I don't mean your incapacity to play Mage and Do Whatever You Want, I mean your lame-ass trolling.

>>94728845
RETARD ALERT

>>94728938
RETARD ALERT again

>>94729091
You didn't post any evidence you cropped a piece of the book and screeched like a bitch getting fucked in the ass with no lube.

You should silence yourself, Special Case.

I hate Norfolk Wizard Game for revitalising Mage discourse.

>>94729204
I hate Norfolk Wizard Game for not including character sheets.

>>94729204
It's the same volume of discourse as before.

>>94729182
>literally a direct screenshot of the rules for what you can (not much) and can't do (most things)
>only response is crying about it
lol
lmao

>>94729265
I disagree. Ascension has become significantly more popular in this general since Norfolk Wizard Game debuted and secondaries were drawn to it. But as neither of us have statistics that we can cite, we'll have to agree to disagree.

A year ago, Ascension was barely discussed at all except for occasional comments about the Technocracy. Mage the Awakening has always been more popular in this general until recently.

>>94729292
Powers having specifications are not the same as "you can't do anything you want", your trolling is retarded and you're a disappointment to your parents and that's why Brucato fucked your wife.

>>94729296
You have absolutely no data to back this up.
The volume of Mage discussion has always been this high.
If Alfabusa's channel was capable of driving this type of discussion, Hunter would've had its time in the sun, and that never happened
It doesn't hurt, though.
But it's not a driver.

>>94729309
>Powers having specifications are not the same as "you can't do anything you want"
The latter is literally a direct causal consequence of the former.
You have a sub 80 IQ and an inferiority complex.

It's especially funny because if you actually want a game with real magic where mages are wanked off at every turn MtAw1e is right there, but that would require you to be able to read and think about the consequences of the powers you actually have.

>>94729322
Shut up Leaf

>>94729322
Point me out two effects that you can't do in MtAs that you can do in MtAw, then.

C'mon. Show us your Mastery over both systems, Anon.

We'll wait =]

>>94729315
That would be because HTP always focused on the vampires and continues to focus on the vampires, with no real attention being given to hunter stuff. See all of the lore dump audio logs which revolve around providing information about Vampire the Masquerade, and not anything hunter-centric.

Additionally, you've not data to support the claim that there has always been this level of Mage discourse. You're making as much of a claim as I am, so you're also obliged to provide data to back yourself up. If you can't, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

>>94729371
I am not the one who made the original assertion, dumbass. The onus of proof is on you, not me.
Your counter argument is essentially No U.

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>>94729361
Sure.
Creating werewolves.
Creating kinfolk.

I'll throw in a bonus one for free:
Removing the vampire or werewolf template.

>>94729390
>He thinks everything must be discretionary or it doesn't exist because he lacks imagination
>He forgot how cross-overs work on WoD
>He forgot that the Vampire game line needed a cross-over book specifically about using Magick to remove the Vampire template, while the Mage game line didn't, because, again, he forgot how crossovers work on World of Darkness games.
Dude.
You're not helping your case, like, at all.

>>94729390
>>94729408
Bonus: he forgot to fucking source his screenshot, the most egregious mistake of all.

>>94729408
That sure is a lot of cope and no source lmao

Feel free to find the explicit statement from "mage" the ASS where it says you can create garou. Protip: you can't, because it doesn't exist, and the life/spirit spheres very clearly say it's not in the list of things you can do.

>>94729411
>he doesn't know
concession accepted

>>94729446
You're really coping and grasping at straws here.
Your argument is essentially "I don't understand and can't accept how Cross-overs work in the World of Darkness and I will keep ramming my own head-canon on how they SHOULD work to explain why you can't do things you could do in 1st 2nd and Revised Editions of MtAs, because I like CofD better"
The reversal of your stupid trolling would be making fun of "Mage the WANKENING" for not allowing you to create a D&D character because there are no D20 rolls in MtAw's system or some other retardation like that.
Not to mention that expecting people to know from which book out of hundreds of books all with the same layout and same font a specific excerpt is from, is essentially trying to hide your goddamn source. And that's not to get into the merit that anyone with a passing knowledge of layouting can make their own excerpts to prove whatever the fuck they want, the STV offers all the resources for you to make your own WoD-looking books. Source your shit or shut the fuck up.

You're either fucking retarded, or you're just a little troll.
Either way we're done here, Wanker.

>>94729384
Well, let's start with mentions of "mage" in general, comparing nine threads from 12/02/23 to 01/03/24, before the debut of Norfolk Wizard Game, with nine threads from 12/14/24 to 01/03/25, after the debut of Norfolk Wizard Game.

By my count, "mage" was mentioned 250 times between 12/02/23 and 01/03/24, and 615 times between 12/14/24 and 01/03/25. The number of mentions that "mage" received more than doubled in that period, indicating a much higher level of discourse regarding Mage (of all editions) over the last month this year than there was at this time last year.

Would you like to provide any evidence that counters this, or should I focus on a narrower keyword like "ascension" instead?

>>94729488
This sure is a lot of cope and zero fucking sources lmao
>"I don't understand and can't accept how Cross-overs work in the World of Darkness and I will keep ramming my own head-canon on how they SHOULD work
Cute projection.
It says right in mage what you can't do, see >>94728938. You refuse to reference a book because they all say you're wrong.

>Not to mention that expecting people to know from which book out of hundreds of books all with the same layout and same font a specific excerpt is from, is essentially trying to hide your goddamn source.
lol
lmao

dude lmfao
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about if you think people don't know what book that is

>>94729503
The implication from your refusal to source your book implies that pointing out where it comes from will demolish your argumentation.

Source it or shut the fuck up.

>>94727461
What's wrong with W20?

>>94729519
Lmao
Cope, seethe, cry more, etc.

>>94729502
I also searched for mentions of "ascension" of "mtas" during these periods, as the latter is the shorthand for Mage the Ascension (as is "mtasc" but "mtas" is included in that).

18 hits over nine threads between 12/02/23 and 01/03/24.
77 hits over nine threads between 12/14/24 and 01/03/25.

That's over four times as many mentions, only a year apart. Why would Mage the Ascension be so much more popular and talked about so much more today, than it was just a year ago?

>>94729502
>>94729541
We've also had at least three newfags explicitly say they came from the fag's podcast and have never played.

>>94729502
>>94729541
You call that proper data? Do a course in statistics before you pull a stunt like this again, that shit proves nothing about anything. I haven't laughed this hard in ages.

>>94729538
Your methodology is as sloppy as your trolling.

You mix and match editions to try and prove your point, ignore that everything that isn't part of the CORE books are essentially optional material (which is probably why you refuse to source your stuff, but my guess is as goodas any here—maybe you're just reposting material someone else handed you and you don't know the source yourself), ignores the design philosophy in the World of Darkness and keeps trying to frame it as if you were discussing CofD, and, to top it all off, thinks time wasting is a viable trolling strategy in 2025.

We understand you're a senile old man in a retirement home, but what you don't understand is that I'm chilling on the pool doing Fuck All with my vacation time at the moment. You're not eating away my time, you're providing me with entertainment.

>>94729541
You're ignoring a giant time window here buddy.

>>94729557
Nobody said Alfabusa's channel never drove any interest.
We're pointing out that it is not responsible for the current volume of MtAs discussion here.
Something else is, now what that thing is, I don't think you're gonna find any palpable explanation for it because the high volume started BEFORE the Norwich game started.
This becomes especially glaring when you look into other places WoD is discussed and how much Mage discussion happens there—did it ever crossed your mind that it might be because the audience of any other particular group started popping up here, for example?

>>94729578
>keeps trying to frame it as if you were discussing CofD
You're literally the only person who has mentioned cofd
>You mix and match editions to try and prove your point
I have not even once
>ignore that everything that isn't part of the CORE books are essentially optional material
That's 100% wrong and pure cope on your end
>maybe you're just reposting material someone else handed you and you don't know the source yourself
lmao
lol
It's crazy to me that you're this distant from ever being involved even slightly in this general.

Just came here from the podcast and never played wod before?

>>94729741
You keep mentioning MtAw, retard.

Just literally shut the fuck up.

>>94728143
>The story of my life. I can’t help but falling in love with concepts and settings and ending up disappointed afterwards
I know how you feel, anon. I too do that sometimes and for me one thing that makes me go on with those concepts is talking with my ST so we can find a something in-between. When you see, the final result is better than what you alone planned.
But if this doesn't happen anyway, just put your character on the drawer and wait another game to play with him.

>thread made yesterday
>already in bump limit due to magefaggotry autism
People never learn. A story as old as time itself.

>>94729777
>Point me out two effects that you can't do in MtAs that you can do in MtAw, then.
>nooo you can't mention MtAw
shitter status: irrecoverable
lifetime iron butt usage required for palliative care

>>94729541
Probably because WtA hungry names came out and showed what paradox intends for M5

>>94729819
Retard, YOU said that True Magick is only possible in Awakening, which is why I asked you to name two effects.
In here, in specific: >>94729322
Fuckface.

>>94729808
>Vampirefag buttmad his game line doesn't drive this much engagement even with marketing money being poured over it for decades
Nobody's ever seen this before lmao

>>94729819
>>94729840
Absolutely Senile.
Forgot his own argumentation halfway through the conversation.

>>94729296
Ascension did used to dominate mage discussion here, yeah. But that stopped years ago. NWG may have contributed to a small uptick, but it's too recent to be behind the whole thing. I think it's more the anti-modernity shit in Mage has given it a weird second wind due to today's social climate.

I don't like either Mage so I don't have a dog in this race myself. I just hope SpeakerD keeps his magefagging in NWG and out of HtP, because that would ruin the series for me nigh-immediately. I already find it annoying the amount of dogwhistling it gets from Big D.

>>94729840
why do magefags always start reeing about vampire?

>>94729921
Because Vampirefags throw a tantrum whenever they're not the center of attention of any discussion.
Fitting, considering lack of emotional control is a mechanic baked into the system, and petty diva bullshit being such a central theme to it.

>>94729951
Why do you assume he likes vampire and that's why he dislikes mage? That's a shitload of assumptions and it makes you look unhinged and fragile.

>>94729963
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Thanks for letting me know you're frothing in the mouth now, lardtube.

>>94729980
? You assume a lot dude.

>>94730009
I know you're just a troll, but I'll indulge you anyway:

It's called inductive reasoning.
Stereotypes often arise from patterns observed over time, even if they aren't universally true.
Until credible evidence disproves the stereotype, it's reasonable to consider it as a working assumption.
In other words, it's a practical application of common sense based on available information.

This is the downside of having several separate games under one system and one general, there's loads of people who have zero interest in the other splats and even vehemently dislike them to such a degree that they're willing to start splat wars, with people getting pissy whenever a splat they don't like is brought up. Like, I'm a WtA fan but you can't talk about it without someone butting in that Garou are retarded (I agree with you, that's part of their charm to me, but you don't need to say it whenever Apocalypse is mentioned).

It's a shame WoD isn't popular enough for each splat to get its own general, in order to prevent this sort of squabbling.

>>94730095
But that's not what's happening?
The "ascensionfag" here doesn't play MtAs. It's not a fan of a particular line. It's a fan of an eceleb who's buttmad that he was mocked.