What's wrong with it?
Why are there bootleg d&d game mechanics attached to such a nice collection of tables?
>>94800394Heckin Youtubers are mad that some people got books at a convention before them
>>94800394Usual criticism I hear is it's not a complete game, leaves too much to GM fiat, and doesn't do a good job training people to run it properly. But that's second-hand. I haven't read it or played it.
>>94800394Maze Rats is simpler and funner.
>>94800394Hazards events.
A thread can only hold ~300 posts, it would be easier to say 'what's right with it'
>>94800394I don't know. Post the .pdf so I can read it and tell you.
>>94801584It's just deploated D&D that kept some procedures.And a ton of tables.Not worth its price, but if you can get it at a "discount", you're able to have some fun with it.
>>94801691Anon, don't be a retard, it has been easy to find for many months now.
>>94801691The glowies are shining bright tonight.
>>94801700>>94801701Whoa, shit, did something change while I've been away? /tg/ used to post .pdfs all the damn time.
>>94801710Yeah, they used to but things change. 1. PDFs are too large to post here these days with the 8MB file limit2. Most of the major sharesites take shit down fast nowadays and unfortunately there are glowies reporting it from here3. People who post PDFs get yelled at that they "should use the sharethread instead"4. To avoid the glowie reports most of hte pdf sharers have taken to using complex blind sites and l33tsp33k notation, often with passwords5. Shit sucks, yeah
>>94801839When happened, nerds? You used to be cool!
>>94801839If you're not an incredible retard, it's very, very easy to find just about anything, and if you're not rude in share thread, you can find anything else.
>>94800394The spellcasting looks retarded. Like yeah it's "unique" or whatever but they're all useless gimmicks that accomplish nothing and focusing on regular combat abilities is objectively better in every way. No, "creativity" doesn't make any difference. It's all just bullshit.
>>94803432I don't like Knave, but really you should be playing videogames, not ttrpgs
>>94800394from my experience, it suffers from the same problem that the other ultra simple OSR branch offs have which is some of the gimmicks (like patrons) are left vague. They could really do with a DMG equivalent. I did try running a knave game but I came to realize that its not really built for campaigns, more for one offs, so I turned that game into a Worlds without number game instead.
>>94800394The real question is what didn't. That game is barely functional, which is an achievement given how simple it is by itself.
>>94800394First edition of Knave wasn't really that impressive and tried passing off entirely too much work onto the players while pretending it understood and appreciated OD&D better than you ever could.>LOOK YOU GOT A SMALL MIRROR AS YOUR ITEM! I BET YOU DIDN'T REALIZE YOU COULD USE THAT TO DO CLEVER PUZZLE SOLVING LIKE LOOKING AROUND A CORNER!!!My character has 1 HP, you fuck. A bad sneeze will kill them before they can do anything with the fucking mirror.
>>94800394bad
>>94801691>>94801839>>94802024see >>94806912
>>94800394It doesn't include all the tables from the first one. You have to do it manually
>>94800421To be fair, some of those free books also came with $2,000 patrenbux for a good review.
>>94806786I played a hack (I guess) of 1e knave called grave that operated under the premise that the characters had died before already and would continue to rise after death but get more disfigured and gnarly over time as it kept happening until their bodies gave out.It also changed a few mechanical things and turned knave in to a pretty fun little game, but I don't think I'd play regular knave as written (because how could you there's barely anything written there).
>>94805504Explain how you would use any of the spells to contribute to the party beyond worthless gimmicks.
>>94807570Thanks for this.
>>94800394It's got some useful table in it, a few fun ideas. Not super sure there's enough meat to run a good game compared to other simpler systems.
>>94800404Some tables develop their seed dispersal around using vermin to spread them.
>>94800394>>94800649I read the criticism, I got the game last year, have read it and the criticism is dead on. Lot of great tables, some (but honestly not as much as I'd hoped) great art, but there's not really a proper game drawing it together. Sure, some tables correspond to flimsy halfbaked mechanics, but even those have very little guidance how those things translate into actionable game (looking at fucking spells and patrons specifically, they're literally just descriptors and name generators with zero context for what that would do in game). You'd need to do a lot of legwork to make this a functioning game. Which is bizarre when Knave itself was a game and other people have taken Knave and similarly blown it out and produced a functioning game.Even if I wanted to use the tables for some other game, I could also just grab any number of Table compilations off Google or whatever (that arguably have more useful tables) instead for free. I genuinely regret the purchase. I liked his videos for kind of background RPG slop content, but this has cemented that the man is a hack. All talk, zero substance.
>>94800394Fails to understand game design fundamentally. It assumes the hardest task of a GM is to come up with random fluff on the fly so 90% of the book are random tables of fluff. Thinks the easiest part is making rules on the fly so doesn't mention any.All these new 'wave' dnd games are glorified name generators and people eat them cause the art isn't pozzed.
>>94808184You're going to dismiss every example as "worthless gimmick" anyway.
>>948003941st edition works fine as a rules-lite game with some good ideas on how to use the rules, and which doesn't fall into the OSR trap of slavishly aping B/X.2nd edition is just a bunch of shitty tables added without any thought besides counting up to 100.
>>94814190It even fails as a collection of tables since you can't print it nicely without having to include the shit gameplay.
>>94805504>>94813225>I have no argument of any kind, but I'm going to be snide, ok?Why you're even here, mate?
>>94814603Different posters (I was >>94805504 )The advantage of ttrpgs over videogames is that they allow more creativity and thinking outside the box, both on the GM's side (ie to create problems for the PCs) and for the players' side (to solve the problems).If you only care about combat and optimization stuff, videogames are much better, since the main stuff there is combat, and said combat can include lots of extra variables and calculations without bogging things down.
>>94814634And I will now send you back to >>94808184 which asked you a very simple question, Mr. Creativity.It's not even a hard question, you pretentious fuckwit.
>>94813225>>94814190>>94812893then what would you guys recommend for a meaningful implementation of spells?
>>94815118Some gimmik spells are okay, but most should have a clear and direct way to interact with gameplay procedures.
>>94815118>meaningful implementation of spellsI don't think this can be achieved with spell slots and Vancian like magic.It has been always the Achilles' heel of dnd. For the amount of dnd clones out there one would think that by now someone would have created a more grounded magic spell list. As is (5e) or even by osr standards, dnd spell list is unable to recreate any setting other than classical high fantasy.The newish attempts at revamping the magic system with cantrips resulted on even more disparity between casters and non casters and nothing short of an entire magic system rewrite can fix this problem.
>>94803432>but they're all useless gimmicks that accomplish nothing and focusing on regular combat abilities is objectively better in every way.This is based, actually.If your "magic" can't be differentiated from a crossbow or bow, then why do you even want it?>NOOO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND I'M LE WACKY GNOME WIZARD EVERYTHING I DO MUST BE MAGIC™
