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>What's an OSR?
>Don't know how to get started?
The friendly n00b guides can be found here:

>n00b DM's Guide
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>n00b Player's Handbook
https://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon special
>4. Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine

>>96775865
I really dislike using computers for actual game time. I know a lot of players have adapted to it, and that's fine, but I work hard to minimize digital distractions at the table. Pen and paper for me.

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An Anon has shared an awesome AzteCKS campaign report. Check it out!

https://mega.nz/file/id51UZqa#9pZoBcVtOF3vssbZ4kON2WN9XAbGvSi-TStiB9nKTxY

>>96776044
>4
>a small brook you have been following leads out of the dense forestation, to a calm lake reflecting sky above.
>in the middle of the lake is a ruined tower with tattered banners lazily waving in the wind.
>through one of the tower openings, you spot something glinting.
>further down the lakes edge is a boat that's been pulled on land, and it appears someone is resting next to it.

>>96776511
Same boat here, only time I've really used a comp is when running a pirated module that was too cumbersome to print.

>>96775865
Strong preference for pen & paper. I tried laptop assistance a few time but found it got in the way more than it helped.
Making sure I printed out files I wanted for that session or for regular prep and having them on hand has been good also.

Now that we've got a new thread and plenty of space to discuss it in, I want to float a revision of the OP post text to make it clearer what the cutoff of the thread topic is, so that we can avoid needless arguments in future and simply report infractions as off-topic. Since it's obvious that there's a broad consensus on this point I'm sure we can move directly to discussing phrasing. We all know that, let's say, confused new arrivals consistently fixate on the same few areas of unclear phrasing in the OP, such as
>TSR-era D&D
which we should clearly change to
>Gygaxian D&D
or, even more simply,
>pre-2e D&D

Likewise,
>derived systems, and compatible content should probably be expanded to something like
>close clones of these systems, and content created specifically for use with them
but I don't have a good alternative phrasing prepared here, so let me hear your thoughts, anons!

We've seen that OP misunderstanders also commonly obsess over "broadly" and "encourage", so any suggestions on what to do with those?

>>96778252
>to make it clearer what the cutoff of the thread topic is, so that we can avoid needless arguments in future
Quixotic endeavour, it won't work my man. But you're definitely welcome to try.

>>96778268
Yes, I also suspect it may not fully succeed, but it can't hurt to be clearer, right? Plus, even if it just leads to that one guy getting unbelievably assmangled I think it might still be worth it.

>>96778252
Fuck off and die, you retarded troll cunt.

>>96778252
You really can't give your trolling a rest, can you?

Gonna drag yet another thread down into having to explain to you how your personal definition of OSR has nothing to do with the actual definition?

Go waste your life trying to edit the wikipedia article first, instead of your small time bullshit of trying to turn this general into an echo chamber of the last few idiots who are still mad about Gygax getting booted out of TSR before 2e came out.

Otherwise, people can always just point to the wikipedia article and then say "why are you so adamant about resisting commonly understood definitions just to be a retarded cunt?"

Give it a rest here.

>>96778371
Articulate as always, Fishfag!

>>96778409
Seriously though. Fuck off, then die.

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>>96778371
>>96778406
Ah, there's the assmangling I'm talking about!

>Give it a rest here.
No.

>>96778419
Fuck off and die.

>>96778371
you need mental heal treatment ASAP

>>96778419
So, it's going to be yet another thread?

Where all that gets shown is the lengths you will take to be a cancerous cunt?

You really just can't stop.

>>96778252
I'm in favour. It might not deter the troll, but it will help make clearer for newcomers what this general is about.

I'm against "pre-2e D&D" because it would include crap like Dragonlance. Also it's a negative definition rather than a positive one.

There's already a variant of the OP that has been used a few times, for example here >>92752403, that just repeats "first decade" as a specification for "TSR-era D&D" the first time it appears.

However, we could perfectly well add the clarification that "AD&D 2e is off-topic": This is already implicit in the "first decade" definition, as well as the part about metaplots, linear adventures, and player agency, but this is not immediately evident for Anons who don't have the timeline of D&D editions clear in their minds, nor the differences between Gygaxian and Hickmanian D&D.

>Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

>Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency. AD&D 2e is off-topic.

>If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.

>>96778252
>derived systems, and compatible content should probably be expanded to something like
"Modern derived systems that are tonally and mechanically compatible" perhaps?

>>96778472
OP should already have that covered with this line:
>OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade
We don't need to really change anything, just stop engaging with the 2etards and shit stirrers, and report them for off topic posts.

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>>96778252
The last thread was 400+ posts of you embarrassing yourself.
If you're concerned about the OP, lets just change the OP text back to the original.
>Welcome to /osrg/ - the OSR General, devoted to pre-WotC D&D, retroclones, and all other related systems.
Done and done. And let's go back to using cool images.

>>96778430
I think if him getting treatment for his melties were on the table at all, it would've happened years ago. One way or another, he's beyond the reach of psychiatry.

>>96778488
Or you could stop posting in this thread and went to be retarded somewhere else.

>>96778472
>"Modern derived systems that are tonally and mechanically compatible" perhaps?
Not sure how that would improve things.


>>96778488
>OP should already have that covered with this line:
>>OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade
Yes, except it's been proven time and again that 2etards don't know how long a decade is.

>just stop engaging with the 2etards and shit stirrers
That doesn't work when they start spreading misinformation, particularly to newbies.

And the OP is not at all clear for a newbie, since they have no idea what editions were or weren't published during the first decade, let alone the fact that "less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency" disqualifies AD&D 2e. Better make it explicit.

>>96778252
Why are you like this?

This thread had a chance to be a fresh start, without your offtopic whining.

>>96778541
Yeah, everyone can tell you don't know anything.

>>96778252
It would help to be clearer, for sure, for non-trolls anyways. 2efag is ultimately a troll and so will likely keep posting regardless, but a clearer mission statement would be nice for those operating in good faith: there's plenty of room for confusion in the current OP.

I would go with Gygaxian D&D, since pre-2e implies we're cool with the direction taken by Ravenloft and Dragonlance and so on. People will naturally ask what "Gygaxian" means, but that's an easier task centred around the positive (here's what we are) rather than the negative (here's what we aren't).

>close clones of these systems, and content created specifically for use with them

I'm actually fine with this phrasing. Again, you can't legislate yourself to compelling good behaviour: trolls will troll regardless. But short of a prescriptive laundry list of games (approved by whom?), this is reasonably clear. I don't want us to say that someone can or can't talk about, say, BFRPG or ACKS, even if people have complaints about them.

I would be clear and add something along the lines of what people tried to add to OPs a few years ago that the hijacking mod used to delete, though:

"Off-topic editions (2nd ed and newer) should be discussed elsewhere."

Make it plain here. It would help for off-topic reporting if we have a clear thing to point to in the OP showing how it's off-topic.

>>96778463
You raise a lot of good points, but IMO just putting in
>AD&D 2e is off-topic
seems a little blunt and over-specific. I think it might be better then to specify what games ARE on-topic, like
>Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D: OD&D, 1e AD&D, and Basic D&D in all its editions, together with their modern clones and derived games.
This admittedly kind of combines the first two sentences of the existing OP and makes the second sound redundant, so it would lead to knock-on revisions, I guess.

Anyway, good points!

>>96778472
"Modern derived systems" is really good, you can see that I stole it above.

>>96778488
This would be nice but I believe that it's wishful thinking to some extent to think that reporting him will do anything, and just not engaging clearly isn't working well (even though I agree with *doing* both of those things, you understand). As I said, I feel like every little bit helps, and if you don't agree with that, just look at how mad he got over the mere suggestion, spamming replies out with incoherent choleric bursts of swearing. There *must* be *something* in it for him to get that furious.

>>96778559
Sounds good to me, fund it

>>96778559
All excellent points, agree 100%.

>>96778509
That's too vague. If we don't list a bunch of games like OD&D, AD&D 1e&2e, C&C, OSRIC, etc., then the trolls will keep trolling. Though, I'm guessing they're just going to snipe the OP early anyway.

>>96778541
>That doesn't work when they start spreading misinformation, particularly to newbies.
This is my concern also. I think having a clearly stated OP we can point newbies to would be a real help for these situations, where we can just say "look, you can see clearly that that guy's totally off the reservation".

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>>96778580
>C&C

>>96778252
>>96778463
>If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Please read the noob guides before asking any general questions.

>>96778580
I can guarantee that this is just a prelude to him claiming "look at the concensus we have! Everyone agrees with me! Look, it's even in the OP! Only one person disagrees!"

>>96778594
I'm all in favour of linking the newb guides already in the OP, but I think requiring Anons to read a dozen pages before making any questions is a bit unfriendly. Offer it as an option, not as a requirement.

>>96778610
It would help a lot if that newb guide was not crap.

>>96778559
>It would help to be clearer, for sure, for non-trolls anyways. 2efag is ultimately a troll and so will likely keep posting regardless, but a clearer mission statement would be nice for those operating in good faith: there's plenty of room for confusion in the current OP.
Exactly.

And as to the rest of your post, like the other anons I think you have good points, I'm onboard with all that. The "Off-topic editions" line is broader so it's both more useful and looks less like a response to a specific troll, which is good. I did think about going back to look at the old attempts, but it's a pretty big job and I didn't want to wait to post until I'd read through all that.

>>96778580
>That's too vague.
That's what the OSR is though.

Everywhere else on the internet, that's what the OSR means. It's vague because that's what the OSR is.

>>96778610
this is a reading based hobby.
what is your alternative?
>>96778619
wheres the one you wrote?

>>96778619
This.

The noob guide is total bullshit and propagnda so bad that it was being deleted back when we had mods who actually cared about trying to keep the trolls in check. Now, we've got whole threads spiraling into their bullshit drama and there's nothing that can be done about them.

>>96778610
I agree with this, but I think that mentioning the noob guides in OP is still a good idea. Maybe it could be softened to something like
>If you are new to the OSR, welcome! If you have questions, feel free to ask them; you may also find answers in the guides written by anons for new OSR players and DMs.

>>96778541
Something like this could at least make it very clear:
"This thread only concerns itself with content published by TSR up through the year 1983, and modern 3rd-party content made to interface with it."
It gives an explicit cutoff that can't be misunderstood by newbies, and maybe will entice the jannies into doing their damn job.

>>96778619
We don't really need a newb guide.

"Start with reading Moldvay B/X, and if that's not your style, look at AD&D if you want something more complicated. Once you're done looking at those, you have a frame of reference to look at other OSR systems."

Done. And none of the weird psycho bullshit they loaded up that newb guide with.

>>96778682
Suggestions to improve it are welcome and have been incorporated on several occasions, vague handwaving about how it's terrible and full of "psycho bullshit" gets told to fuck off

>>96778590
C&C is weird, its critically important to the foundation of the OSR the same as BFRPG and Minotaurs and Mazes are, but doesn't actually fit the criteria of mechanical fidelity. I think we should specifically allow it because it doesn't have a place in NuSRG nor has a large enough following to stand on its own.

>>96778693
But it's complete psycho bullshit though, and YOU need to fuck off.
If you don't want anyone to call it psycho bullshit, don't make it psycho bullshit.

>>96778509
I prefer this.
The whole "less emphasis yada yada" line always struck me as dumb and innacurate.

Also, the isometric images are primo.

>>96778406
>Go waste your life trying to edit the wikipedia article first
LOL, my money's on he already tried and failed.

>>96778716
>refuses to elaborate on what makes it psycho bullshit
Proving Anon's point for him, El Maricón Pescada.

>>96778682
You mean AD&D 1E specifically, right?

>>96778697
I could kinda get behind this way of thinking, grandfathering in the proto-OSR systems for historical reasons, if only it weren't for you-know-who's insistent attempt to use C&C as a prybar to force his own off-topic shit into the thread. I vote we leave this for a calmer future, but I don't really think you're wrong at all.

>>96778697
>doesn't actually fit the criteria of mechanical fidelity
Sounds like that's a bit of nonsense then.
"Mechanical fidelity" has never been a part of OSR. How could it? Not even Gygax played OD&D without house rules, and what are house rules if not "Mechanical infidelity"?
If your definition of OSR begins to exclude every game that isn't OD&D or 1e, you're going to have to change your definition. If it excludes a game that's widely recognized as being foundational to the OSR like C&C is, then that definition is fundamentally wrong.

>>96778771
Mechanical infidelity is sex with a robot.

Just curious, do any of you general regulars play games? Would anyone like to share what they have played/ran in the past month?

>>96778761
Your unabashed hypocrisy is kind of amazing.

>>96778771
>If it excludes a game that's widely recognized as being foundational to the OSR
Culo & Caca was foundational to the OSR only as a cautionary tale: Don't do things this way.

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>>96778782

>>96778790
I run a weekly planetary romance game but don't like talking about the details on here. It's too peculiar and would basically dox me.

>>96778790
I've got a Dark Sun game where half the players just made Conan and it's actually even better than that sounds.
I've also got some bullshit 5e game with my nephew I'm running at his request.
I'm trying to get some old friends together to play a super-nostalgic run through Castle Amber, but it's not working out schedule-wise.

>>96778252
How are you still alive? You're so salty there can't be room in your veins for blood.

>>96778865
>I've got a Dark Sun game where half the players just made Conan and it's actually even better than that sounds.
Kek, sounds great, Anon. What are the other half playing?

>>96778803
NTA, but explain

>>96779024
A thief and a defiler. The thief is just kinda quiet and along for the ride, but the defiler bought in 100% and talks like Aku because that's the best Mako impression he can do. Everyone hates the character but loves the player.

>>96778865
Dark Sun is one of those settings where everyone playing Conan works out.

>>96779075
The only reason he hesitates to admit C&C is OSR is because he'd also have to admit 2e is.
The good news is that it doesn't really matter what he thinks or is willing to admit, both are so fundamentally OSR that they can even be called foundationally OSR.

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>Old School Roleplaying
>big red horned guy in the OP
>Satanic panic numbers in the catalog
Checks out.

>>96778808
That's ironic you think that, because C&C showed the way to get a game made that had the "old school" spirit and also wouldn't have WotC sue them into oblivion.
Also, Gygax (and Kuntz) endorsed the hell out of C&C and even brought Greyhawk-minus-copyright into it.

>>96778790
I play in a weekly AD&D game that has been going for 3 years. I shared a story time a few threads ago about our Illusionist fucking our group over with a Deck of Many Things.

I also play in a weird homebrew AD&D each week but it doesn't really feel like an AD&D game outside of the mechanics.

Sometimes I'll get some Swords & Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord going but not more than once or twice a year.

I played in 4 games a week at one point and it just became a burden, I'm much happier with 2.

>>96779319
>muh OGL
Reminder there are retroclones right now that don't use the OGL and WotC can't sue them, because you can't copyright the rules to a game.

>>96778790
Yeah, I run a Sunday night game. Starting up a extra bi-weekly game as well with some newbies, which I'm looking forward to because it's going to be in person rather than over Discord.

>>96779319
I actually had a shit ton of fun when I played C&C.

It plays really smooth. No idea what it looks like on the DM side though.

>>96779177
But Anon, that doesn't make any sense. That anon already admitted C&C is OSR. Okay, proto-OSR, but he definitely doesn't seem reluctant about it.

>>96779329
> you can't copyright the rules to a game.
Aye, that be true, but when has being in the wrong ever stopped someone from being an asshole?

Most publishers did not initially trust WotC or the OGL, and for good reason. TSR had sued many publishers over games being too similar to D&D, including suing Gygax over his Dangerous Dimensions and forcing him to change it to Dangerous Journeys. WotC was inheriting that legacy, and the only people who published anything using the OGL at first were either Wizard's employees (like Green Ronin) or otherwise cozy with the WotC (like Kenzer&co).

C&C was the first "old school" style game that really tested the ice (Hackmaster 4e came out earlier, but that was from the aforementioned K&C who made comics for WotC), and when it held, other publishers followed. In hindsight, it's easy to say everyone was being too cowardly and should have just trusted WotC not to sue them, but also using hindsight you have to remember that WotC filed a lawsuit against Valar Project and their entirely-OGL-compliant Book of Erotic Fantasy. If Hasbro lawyers want to sue you, they'll conjure up a reason (with their complaint against the BoEF being that it was doing severe damage to their own brand image via customer confusion). When that failed to do anything, WotC still put pressure on distributors to either not carry the BoEF, or if they showed any backbone, at least not put the book anywhere near their own products (ie. not in the RPG book section). Valar Project ultimately ended up cancelling their planned sequel to BoEF and never publishing another book, and switching to becoming a printing services company. Even following the OGL doesn't prevent angry Wizards from exercising what power they do have, so the lesson was to tread carefully.

>>96778761
>if only it weren't for you-know-who's insistent attempt to use C&C as a prybar to force his own off-topic shit into the thread
>>96779177
>The only reason he hesitates to admit C&C is OSR is because he'd also have to admit 2e is
Surprise, surprise.

>>96778682
Then don't read it.

>>96778640
>Back when I was a janny and fucked things up repeatedly I could delete things I don't like
Anon this bullshit where you reverse everything you do into an accusation is very transparent.

>>96778622
Then go everywhere else.

>>96779551
>>96779555
>>96779559
Fuck this dumb cunt troll is back.

>>96778551
Good job finding yourself.

>>96779563
Nou

>>96779551
Shocker, right.

>>96779327
>>96779332
Long shot, but are either of you in Melbourne, Australia?
This general does seem quite active during my daylight hours

>>96779666
I'm the second anon there: afraid not.

>>96779567
No u and your gay face.

>>96775865
With regards to B/X specifically, when do you begin counting off turns? Do you run town turns, & transition from there into wilderness turns? Do you then start the party say, 60' from the dungeon entrance on the first crawling turn?

>>96778509
this
>>96778580
>the trolls will keep trolling
for as long as you keep biting, retard
consider the following
timeline A
>some curious anon asks a 2e question
>maybe he gets a reply with an answer maybe he doesn't
>the end
timeline B
>some curious anon asks a 2e question
>shit-flinging starts
>the thread is unusable

>>96779994
That happened just a couple threads back, an anon asked about 2e, was told it was off topic, said "okay, I'll go to another thread" and THEN the shitflinging began, because somebody doesn't like that.

>>96778640
that's not the main issue
the main issue is that it's just shit and unusable because it was written by a retard who didn't have helping newbs in mind but propaganda

>>96779666
I'm the first anon you replied to and yes, but I don't live in the city. I am in that area though.

>>96778790
I'm currently running a non-OSR campaign because I'm a fag, but I usually run Labyrinth Lord (previous campaign was storyslop heavy). This campaign will probably last a few years so I'm a bit fucked for now but next campaign will most likely be OSRIC 3 and will give 1:1 living campaign brosr shit a try.

>>96778809
That got a chuckle out of me.

>>96779828
You get your regular city turns (roll encounters every 3 turns, 30 minutes), wilderness turns (1 day) start after the party leaves the location back to the hexcrawl and start counting crawling turns the moment there is a map to crawl on. This means I start tracking 10 min turns once the players get inside the dungeon OR show up near the entrance (ie Stonehell). I don't know how correct this is but it's what I've always done.

>>96778590
C&C is at the start of the OSR. That and Haskmaster.

Here's my pitch for the opening paragraph of the n00b guide:

>Every now and then, you might encounter an article, or a video, or a forum post talking about how "these weird old rules make the game way better". It turns out that if you follow enough of these rules, you get a genuinely unique and exciting style of play. The Old Rules have their origins in Wargaming, and they wear this influence proudly on their sleeve. Instead of precise and tactical, combat is frantic and messy, and characters can just die. Rather than a string of encounters, the entire dungeon layout becomes one giant meta-encounter. In order to survive, you must learn to think like Hannibal or Napoleon in enemy territory. The danger is real, but gold and glory awaits those diligent, cunning, resourceful, and lucky enough.

>Welcome to the Old-School Renaissance.

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>>96780413
Not bad IMO

>>96778252
I've got a better idea.

All the little pussies crying over "muh first ten years" who can't handle actual discussion over OSR and who can't just skip over what they don't like without being rage baited go start their own thread called who the fuck cares general rather than call this thread OSR general and then try to exclude things that are OSR and have been for the 20+ years since OSR became a thing.

>>96780413
That's good! Are you proposing that for the noob DM's Guide or for the noob Player's Handbook?

>>96780413
Comes off as pretty pretentious

>>96780413
It's cooler without the >Welcome to the OSR

>>96780525
>I refuse to adapt to the culture of this place where I'm a newfag!
>Everyone else should leave instead!

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>>96775865
>Do you use a laptop or tablet at the game table, or do you prefer pen and paper?
As a GM, I've had to accept that a laptop is just infinitely easier. I print out relevant maps and put them on my GM screen, but the adventure itself, including my notes, are usually on my laptop. It's also much better for taking notes. I do dislike any tech at the table, but what can you do.

As a player I wouldn't even fucking dream of having my character sheet on a tablet or phone. I also write notes in a physical notebook.

>>96781293
Anon, I don't think that's a picture of Elon Musk sieg heiling during his speech. Something's gone wrong with your file naming schema.

>>96781293
I was an early adapter of the laptop at the table, heil hitler. Just so much better than pencil and paper, cleaner, easier. Extra copy of every book. I never got distracted.

>>96778509
I'm a simple man.
I like traditional games.
I like traditional OPs.

>>96781416
That's called a reaction pic anon

Do I really need a copy of Outdoor Survival to play OD&D?

>>96783720
No, but it's a good suggestion to have on hand when your players are going to do wilderness travel stuff

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>>96783720
>>96783792
>No
I half-remember that there's one tiny rule that applies in OD&D but is only explained in Outdoor Survival. Can't remember if it's terrain cost or what.

>>96783859
Almost! Terrain cost is in a table in Volume 3. It's the rules for starvation and dehydration that aren't implemented in OD&D itself.

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>>96775865
I have a physical notebook for a session log which i then type out into a proper log afterwards. At the table i have a laptop for adventure pdfs / onenote / music player / digital tools (e.g. npc generator). On a tablet I have the game rules or another Onenote window.

Additionally i have a sleeved gm screen into which i dynamically switch inserts to have the important procedures and tables for whatever the party is doing (combat / wilderness exploration / visiting a city).

The players have a tablet on which i reveal dungeon maps. Other maps which are required often I have in A3 paper format.

Also I love seeing other peoples Table setups. So if anyone has some pic I’d love to see them. <3

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>>96781293
Yeah. As a player i hate using digital tools ingame. But as DM its just too convenient.

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>>96784276
>It's the rules for starvation and dehydration that aren't implemented in OD&D itself.
Right, but that's not what I had in mind, since those rules are not meant to be applied in OD&D anyway.

It was picrel. If you know what the rule in Outdoor Survival actually is, it could be anything. For instance, it could be something like:
>(1) 120 degrees left
>(2-3) 60 degrees left
>(4-5) 60 degrees right
>(6) 120 degrees right
It's just a random direction instead, which is funny, because it means you might get lost and still travel in the correct direction...

>>96784796
>>96784276
I meant
> If you DON'T know what the rule in Outdoor Survival actually is

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>>96784796
>because it means you might get lost and still travel in the correct direction
It does happen. It can mean approaching a location through the woods instead of by road, or other minor inconveniences, but it's possible.

>>96784822
Yeah, but it has no game effect, so I'm not sure it makes much sense to include it. It's essentially just a reduction in the odds to get lost. Perhaps it might make sense to house rule it that you do travel in the right direction, but slower.

>>96784861
True, but parties who know that they are lost tend to make different choices than parties that know they're on track. Often dumb choices like "let's start a forest fire" or "I wonder if this scroll I found is a scroll of teleport?"

when appendix A says "parallel passage", did they mean 'perpendicular' instead? I think they were smarter than that, but it doesnt make sense to me otherwise.

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>>96785286
It means parallel to the wall that the door is on, as you can deduce from the fact that the next result is "straight ahead", which is perpendicular to the wall that the door is on.

>>96785286
What the other anon said, but sometimes it doesn't matter how "smart" you are, it won't defeat editing errors or typesetter "corrections."
>"Huh, this line ends in a word that starts with P, but it's smeared"
>"Should I send it back for corrections, or just assume it's supposed to say pineapple?"

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>>96785286
>>96785340
Remember that DISCRETION MUST PREVAIL.

If your issue is with doors in corridors opening on parallel passages, which is fucking ugly if you ask me, just reroll or replace it with a room.

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>>96785340
>>96785356
>>96785362

thanks. so, it means another passage parallel, but not along the same line, right? sorry if im too dumb (picrel, door at end of passage, space beyond is "parallel passage, extends 30' in both directions". Did I draw it right??)

>>96785398
Make it a T intersection, just with a door on the side that you're entering from. Sort of:

***_***
.....* .....
.....* .....
.....* .....

>>96785431
so perpendicular??
not trying to be a troll or a pest, just very confused how to visualize this as intended?

>>96785445
>>96785431
>>96785340
never mind, thanks fellahs, im just fried from work. I got it now.

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>>96785457
I knew you'd get it, anon!

>>96785532
thanks, fren
how long is a default passage?
usually 30' (as per 'check again in 30'), right?

>thieves only ever get a 5% chance to detect explosive runes
brutal

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>>96785683
A 5% chance to safely detect explosive runes.
Everyone has a 100% chance to unsafely detect explosive runes.

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>>96785924

>>96784796
>those rules are not meant to be applied in OD&D anyway
That's arguable, since there are rules for bringing rations which must do something, but: oh yeah, the lostness travel deflection! That's right, I'd forgotten the rule isn't in Volume 3.

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>>96785986
òÒÓó

I had a crazy idea, you guys will probably hate it.
But how about repackaging morale rules/checks as Fighting man class ability? Since it seems every osr group forgets about them anyways, maybe if it's to players benefit they'll keep them in mind.
I don't see it as being worse than clerics having turn undead and spell slots. Fighters just have "(potentially) turn anything with morale"

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>>96787174
I kind of like it, but "oh shit they have a wizard" is a major part of morale tests.

So I've been seeing a lot of hype online recently for 3 mile hexes.
But what is better, 3 miles or 6 miles?

>6 mile hexes are fucking huge and it seems weird with only one interesting thing every few hexes
>3 mile hexes makes for a more densely populated world but also takes more mapspace to show less area

TQ:
Pen and paper, books.
Tablet is available if I need to search for keywords(AD&D 1e)

>>96787361
From sea level you can see about 3.5 miles to the horizon. With a 6-mile hex, you can just see to the edge of the next hex with no obstructions, so one hex covers everything the party can see. That means when the party has reached the center of the hex after x hours travel, you just look up the one hex and tell them what's visible in it, you don't have to look into the six neighboring hexes' content as well

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>>96787361
Using an ACKS II region as an example Macris recommends 31.5 x 49 hexes (6 miles). That's 1,543.5 hexes to track.
If you do 3 mile hexes you'll end up tracking 6,174 hexes to cover the same area.

You're better off detailing your most trafficked 6 mile hexes like Dave Arneson did here.

>>96787566
The book notes on page 21 that this is a 10 mile hex.

>>96787361
I don't know how rolling to see if players get lost would work in a 3-mile hex map. If they can clearly see landmarks from adjacent hexes, does it even make sense to roll at all? "We camped out for the night in the hex south of the giant sphinx dungeon, we could see it from there, how are we now lost", and so on.

>>96785398
No. That's a door straight ahead, so that's the only case in which you'd place a 10×10 room instead as per the table entry we're discussing.

>>96785431
>Make it a T intersection
Wrong. See above.

>>96785610
Correct, it's 30 feet by default.

I personally don't like that, and have random lengths instead, either (1d3+1)×10' or (1d4!)×10', where 1d4! is a non-retarded exploding d4. Both give an average of 30'.

A non-retarded exploding d4 is a d4 in which whenever you roll a 4 you read it as THREE not four, that's a retarded d4 and add another d4. Keep doing that as long as you roll 4s.

>>96787174
>how about repackaging morale rules/checks as Fighting man class ability?
That's retarded.

>Since it seems every osr group forgets about them anyways
Only the groups of retards forget to do it, so it checks out with your proposal.

>>96787361
>I've been seeing a lot of hype online recently for 3 mile hexes.
Where? YouTube ecelebs? Plebbit?

>But what is better, 3 miles or 6 miles?
6 miles in B/X, 5 miles in O/AD&D.

Checking into OSE and so far I'm not happy with item prices (copper seems to exist for no reason, garlic being 5 times the price of ropes which is itself same price as a dozen iron pikes, etc) nor weapons (pretty obvious a keyword like cumbersome would have made short sword and short bow a viable option instead of a straight downgrade).

I could homebrew these two parts but it's a given someone smarter than I already did so. Should I go fishing for these options (item price and weapon list) in AD&D or ACKS II?

>>96787692
>Should I go fishing for these options (item price and weapon list) in AD&D or ACKS II?
You should ALWAYS check out the three core AD&D books (the real ones, not the storygaming knockoffs) whenever you have a doubt about B/X.

>>96787692
>copper seems to exist for no reason,
It's for change. If you made a game about Europe or the USA in the 21st century you would probably say the same about 1 cent coins. No need to do anything about that, it's fine as it is.

>garlic being 5 times the price of ropes
It's a pound of garlic IIRC. And it's special high-quality garlic, of the kind that works against vampires. It's a great deal, no need to fix that either. (The rules don't say that explicitly, but I think it's implied.)

>weapons (pretty obvious a keyword like cumbersome would have made short sword and short bow a viable option instead of a straight downgrade).
What does the word "cumbersome" do? Is that a WotCism? Some weapons being worse than others is by design: E.g. Halflings and Dwarves* have to use shortswords if they want to use a shield with them.

The "Dwarves" part is, in my opinion, in line with the fact that they can't use 2H swords, so it makes sense to bump up normal swords to two-handed for them.

This having been said:

1/2

>>96787692 #
>>96787737 #
Fuck me, hit "Post" by mistake while editing.

2/2

This having been said:

>Should I go fishing for these options (item price and weapon list) in AD&D or ACKS II?
Yes and no.

No: As explained in the post above, all the things you have issues with are perfectly fine in B/X and you don't need to fix them. In fact, you should play B/X by the book for a year before shitbrewing it, to understand how and why it works the way it does.

Yes, you should ALWAYS check out the three core AD&D books (the real ones, not the storygaming knockoffs) whenever you have a doubt about B/X: Weapons have many more characteristics in AD&D: Length, space required, speed factor, and so on, which, if you use them, make weapon selection much more meaningful. No need to use them, though, but if you do, check out Ken Do Nim's house rules PDF and Dragon Magazine 127 for tables of weapon handedness by race.

ACKS: Macris has painstakingly revised all weapon prices, so it's definitely worth checking out. Do NOT use his tables for weapon characteristics, though because they fuck up class/race balance in B/X/O/AD&D. (Not an issue in ACKS itself, in which balance is achieved in other ways.)

>>96787745
>they fuck up class/race balance
This statement might be confusing for newbies, so I'll elaborate: Balance in B/X works through niche protection. Only human Fighters and Thieves being able to use normal swords one-handed, and them being the best weapons in the game, particularly when you take magic swords into account, is a niche you shouldn't be fucking with by making normal swords worse.

>>96787757
Thanks for your detailed answers. The last one kind of fuck my in the arse because I wasn't a big fan of Infravision for Elves and Dwarves and definitely noped at the Thief.

The plan was to remove Infravision for anyone, add Animal Empathy for the Elves instead (2 in 6 chances to understand an animal mood and behavior) and Gem Appraisal for Dwarves (2 in 6 chances to estimate a gemstone value). Add Lore Knowledge to the Magician (2 in 6 chances to recognize a magic item). More dramaticaly I intended to remove Trap Disarming for the Thief as I want that to be purely a talked over brain scratcher challenge instead of a mechanical roll, plus rename the Thieve class into a Goblin race so anyone can expect them to be backstabbing motherfucker.

It's a game for a small group of early teenagers so I will introduce Elves, Dwarves, Goblins and anything from Carcass Crawler slowly over time, like when they deliver one of this race prisoner from a dungeon. The goblin will be a high pitched voice shabby dude sonthey'll know he's not really to be teusted and whoever chose to roleplay him will have to be kept under a tight leash.

Seemed like easy tweaks to me so I could avoid potential drama but looks like I might break some balance. I don't plan on toying with Class/Race requirements though so maybe I'm safe.

>>96787757
So reading this, longbows is a clear upgrade fron bows if you refer to the weapon list alone, but checking on the game as a whole there's still a niche use for bows because longbows can't be equipped by shorter races such as halflings and dwarves?

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>>96788083
General comment: DON'T FIX A GAME YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED.

Specifically, don't fuck D&D up with skills, they're FOE shit from later editions (2e and so on). Specifically:
>Animal Empathy for the Elves
Fucking gay and potentially game breaking.

>Gem Appraisal for Dwarves
More 2e/3e/5e crap.

>Lore Knowledge to the Magician (2 in 6 chances to recognize a magic item).
1. What the fuck's a magician, there's no fucking stage magic in D&D. It's called a Magic-User.
2. You've just fucked up the whole cursed magic items mechanics. DON'T FIX SHIT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

>More dramaticaly I intended to remove Trap Disarming for the Thief as
Extremely bad idea.

> I want that to be purely a talked over brain scratcher challenge
More messing with things you don't understand. The average dungeon level has a dozen traps. What are you going to do, invent a different puzzle for each one? While the rest of the table sit back and watch you and the player who's running the thief jack off each other each fucking time?

>rename the Thieve class into a Goblin race so anyone can expect them to be backstabbing motherfucker
FOEGYG. Players don't have to run thieves as "backstabbing motherfuckers" just because you find it funny, and goblins are monsters to be slain, not party members.

>anything from Carcass Crawler
Jesus fucking Christ, no. Some of those are more or less okay, but a bunch of them are bullshit for idiots who don't know any better.

>The goblin will be a high pitched voice shabby dude
This is not fucking Critical Role, and the DM is not a fucking kids' party clown.

>whoever chose to roleplay him will have to be kept under a tight leash.
The DM is a referee in the game, not someone who keeps players "on a tight leash" to do his bidding, steer the story where he wants it to go, or create a troop of carnival sideshows.

>It's a game for a small group of early teenagers
Not a reason to insult their intelligence.

For fuck's sake, focus on playing instead of shitbrewing.

>>96788279
>magician
A 6th level magic-user in AD&D 1e has the level title Magician

Source: P25 Players Handbook.

>>96788331
Something tells me OP was talking about a 6th level Magic-User by referring to him by his title.

>>96788279
>create a troop of carnival sideshows
Troupe.

>>96788345
Yeah, but these ones go into dungeons to kill monsters. Also, as you can see from the timestamp, you're me and I'm samefagging.

>>96788331
I'm the anon he's replying to and I don't interact with this sperging cringelord. I encourage you to do so anon. He's obviously wrong on so many account there's no point listing it. We could both go to the zoo if we really wanted to see a monkey flinging his shit around.

>>96788083
>>96788356
The way he responded was caustic but I do think he makes good points.

Just run B/X rules as written and have a copy of OSE at the table.
It's perfectly suitable for teenagers.

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>>96788356
>I won't listen to good advice because he huwt my feewings.
You'll need to grow a thicker skin if you want to survive in 4chan. It's an important IRL skill as well, particularly when it comes to communicating with men who are not completely emasculated.

>>96787566
Largely unrelated but this book is the most niggerpriced OSR publication of all time, I'm seething big over it even though I'm actually glad to own it. It should've been like half the price at that page count and print quality. I feel like the Blackmoor guys are doing this systematically too. Makes me glad I pirated the documentary.

>>96788380
No he doesn't.

>>96788431
The "advice" is shit. Not only that, YOUR advice is shit, because people in the real world are polite and acting like a sperg IRL is going to get your ostracized from polite society.

>>96789017
oh no 2etard is sad again

God this thread has gotten autistic.

>>96789079
No idea what's going on, just know you're definitely in the wrong here.

>>96789079
Literal schizo. I'm pro 2E and generally against the OSR "movement" in general. I just happen to like ACKS. Unfortunately, I'm forced to tolerate the presence of obese Gen X virgins who have their nostalgia goggles glues to their fat fucking faces.

>>96787361
I prefer 3mi, personally,

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>>96787692
Yes, item prices are known to be cursed. AD&D is no help, shit's still stupid there. It's been awhile since last time, but some years ago this was a fairly frequent /osrg/ topic; the standard solution if you're bothered by it is basically to switch to a silver standard (i.e. gp prices in the books are changed to sp; 1sp = 1 XP) and use one of the medieval price lists available online as a guideline to hammer out something that makes sense to you.

As for keywording, that's a bigger change of gameplay and might be worth saving until you have experience with the system. In that instance AD&D does provide a partial fix and an even better one is to adopt the Chainmail MTM table for weapon vs. armor to-hit modifications (pic related) with whatever adaptations you feel you need to be comfortable with that.

I don't know whether ACKS fixes either of these but I'd say there's a strong chance that it fixes prices because the economics is Macris' special autism.

>>96787737
>It's a pound of garlic IIRC.
It's still stupid, bro. A common kitchen herb costs half a pound of gold in OD&D, that's demented on the face of it.

>>96787745
>check out Ken Do Nim's house rules PDF
Got a link?

>>96788112
NAYRT but in my opinion restricting Thieves to shortbows would be fine; longbows are a weapon of war after all.

>>96789017
nah, hes right, get bent.
also, just play BX raw

>>96787530
>about 3.5 miles to the horizon at eye level
A bit taller than most humans are going to be doing. Ends up closer to 2.9-3.1 miles.

>>96789347
fucking kill ourself lmao

>>96789521
its in his siggy on DF

>>96789017
No, it genuinely is good advice. Anon's just salty from fielding the same questions too many timesand having farthuffers refuse to listen to the polite version, that's all. Not the ideal approach, but the gist of what he's saying is correct, especially the TL;DR of not trying to fix something when you don't know how it works.

>>96789600
Cheers.

>>96789513
>item prices are known to be cursed
That's a very frequent claim, but it's not true.

>the standard solution if you're bothered by it is basically to switch to a silver standard (i.e. gp prices in the books are changed to sp; 1sp = 1 XP)
Reducing prices by a factor of ten make them less realistic, not more.

>there's a strong chance that it fixes prices because the economics is Macris' special autism
Correct, it fixes them by leaving most of them unchanged, except for the ones that are obviously wrong. This is because the prices are okay as they are, for the most part.

>costs half a pound of gold
Conversion of gold coins to pounds is always going to give you retarded answers, because coin encumbrance does not reflect their actual weight, it's just a game means to make treasure harder to retrieve. Nor does it say anywhere in the rulebook that coins are 100% pure.

>>96788356
>I'm obviously btfo so hard I can't address the points
This is cope.

>>96789521
>>96789600
>its in his siggy on DF
Yeah, but I forgot to say I meant the AD&D ones, not the BECMI/RC ones. Either way, direct links:
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/php4/archive.php?sectioninit=FE&fileid=307&watchfile=0
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/php4/archive.php?sectioninit=FE&fileid=382&watchfile=

>>96789602
True, but at least it's 40%, and they actually play game. It's much better than openly admitting to liking AD&D 2e, which makes you completely retarded and means you haven't played a single game in the last thirty years.

>Experience Point Awards for Monetary Gain: As a gold piece is worth a $500* equivalent in this setting, there are far fewer gold pieces discovered in the course of adventuring. Rather than equating 1 gp to 1 XP, the CK is
urged to use a ratio in which 1 gp = 5 XP. So, XP awards for money found in the course of adventure are:
•100 cp = 1 XP
•10 sp = 1 XP
• 2 ep = 5 XPs
•1 gp = 5 XPs
•2 pp = 15 XPs

>Campaign Settings with Gold of Lesser Monetary Value : If, however, you are adapting this setting to one of your own in which gold is of lesser value (such as an equivalent to $20*), you might wish to use the more traditional 1 gp = 1 XP. This is of course your purview, Castle Keeper, but do note that the authors of this work consider the above monetary exchange system (1 gp = 50 sp = 500 cp) to be a
vast improvement to previous systems.

What did Gary mean by this?

>>96789722
>What did Gary mean by this?
What's the context of this quote. Judging by the fact that he's talking about a "Castle Keeper" rather than a Dungeon Master, it sounds like he's not talking about O/A/B/X D&D.

>>96788356
>>96789017
Filtered.

>>96789770
It’s from Castle Zagyg Mouth of Madness. So the setting would be Greyhawk

>>96789713
And, that's still better than being one of those 300% completely retarded in mind, body, and soul shiteating faggots that complain about people wanting to discuss 2e here and keep trying to redefine OSR just to figure out how to specifically exclude it.

>>96789846
>and that's still why my dad can beat up your dad, no takies backies
jfc go away

>>96789602
You're on the level of standing shirtless in an IHOP car park screaming at randos to fight you by this point.

>>96789704
>house rules almost as long as the PHB
Good grief.

>>96789950
He's probably only in this thread in the first place because he was banned from the local IHOP.

>>96789950
Who's fighting? He's right.

>>96789689
What exactly are you gaining in your own mind by clinging this hard to aspects of the game that are known to be flawed and have been for decades? The claim is frequent because it's indisputable. If you'd rather just get on with playing and not care that's fine, but the fact is these prices are off the cuff and completely inconsistent with each other, and other referees *will* care about this stuff. It's about verisimilitude in your milieu, you know.

Do you rage this hard if someone says ring mail and banded armor are fake armor types and don't make sense, too? Do you get mad if somebody tells you that Gygax was mistaken in distinguishing the bec de corbin from the poleaxe and that "poleaxe" is actually a typo? Swords don't weigh eight pounds, shields are much more efficacious than the AC mod you get off them would suggest, etc. etc.

Again, it's fine to just shrug and not care, but getting mad at someone else for noticing this stuff doesn't actually make sense is bizarre behavior.

>>96789950
He being nice to you by saying 40%.

I've never seen an ACKS fag be anywhere less than wholly retarded.

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>>96790020
>known to be flawed
>it's indisputable

>>96790020
>Swords don't weigh eight pounds
Encumbrance is a measure of both bulk and weight, not just weight, tourist.

>>96790075
Yes, it is!

>>96790088
That interpretation just makes things worse, since a sword in a scabbard is *less* cumbrous than its weight would imply.

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Have any of you used Dolmenwood to run a mega-dungeon like Arden Vul?

>>96790137
>Yes, it is!
Source?

>a sword in a scabbard is *less* cumbrous than its weight would imply
Lol, no. It's still a very long object, it would be less encumbering if it were more compact.

>>96790168
I haven't, but it's not difficult to do. Do you have any doubts or concerns about it?

>>96790168
Dolmenwood is just slightly worse OSE so there's no reason there would be any special difficulty. What in particular are you concerned about?

>>96790366
>>96790196
I mostly wonder whether the rules for Dolmenwood are suited for something like a mega-dungeon instead of what it is intended for: a hexcrawling adventure. The classes also have such particular flavor, where OSE is generic (in a good way) and that might suit something like Arden Vul more.

Why do you think the Dolmenwood rules are slightly worse than OSE?

>>96790431
I'm not the Anon who said that Dolmenwood is just slightly worse OSE, but I agree with him.

The following is just me. If you'd rather just plonk AV into DW, more power to you.

Let's distinguish the setting from the ruleset.

Ruleset: If I were to include Dolmenwood in my setting, I wouldn't use the Dolmenwood classes anyway. A good chunk of Gavin Norman's business model is selling crap character options to people who don't know any better, a trend which has been making D&D worse at least since Unearthed Arcana. So on that front, I'd use the setting but ditch the rules.

Setting:

1/2

>>96790431
>>96790667

2/2

Setting:

I wanted to love Dolmenwood when it was in development, but sadly the setting has its flaws as well.

Firstly, it's been turned into something like a Disney reinterpretation of English folklore rather than something that draws from the folklore directly, like Wormwood was initially.

Secondly, the map is overcrowded with "stuff". Three features of interest per hex is far too much. And it leaves practically zero room for % in lair checks and random shit, which takes the life out of a campaign.

Thirdly, the players' book and maps give away too much about the setting. If I were to use it, I wouldn't give that book to the players, which goes well with my refusal to use the Dolmenwood rules in the first place.

Fourthly but not leastly, I wouldn't run a campaign that is exclusively Dolmenwood and one published "mega"dungeon in it. Player should be able to travel off the borders of the map, and they shouldn't be chained to a specific setting with a very specific flavour. So I'd put the "mega"dungeon on the border of Dolmenwood, a bit outside of it, with its own little bit of setting around it. Then I'd let players wander in and out of either, or in other directions as well, as they please.

In fact, I might not even present the setting to the players as "Dolmenwood". I would change the name, change a bit of its lore, and have the players start either outside of Dolmenwood or just inside of it but as foreigners to the region who know nothing about it. And I'd undo quite a bit of the Disneyfication of it.

>>96790667
Can you elaborate on your opinions on the rules? For example, I largely have the impression that many rules in Dolmenwood fix or improve the OSE rules. Specific examples include the entire Thief class, skill checks, and spells like Turn Undead.

I asked my initial question because I am tempted to run OSE-with-the-good-Dolmen-rules-on-top. I'm not a huge fan of the Dolmenwood aesthetic and some of the classes are, like you say, too Disneyfied for my tastes. Also, where are the fuckin' dwarves!? Come on.

>>96790730
>fixing the thief
>can_of_worms.jpg
The Thief doesn't even need fixing, he needs a DM who understand how he works
>skill checks
Suck, class features are better

>>96790730
>the entire Thief class, skill checks, and spells like Turn Undead.
None of those things needed fixing in the first place, nor do they improve the game any. Have you ever actually run B/X (or AD&D or OD&D) by the book?

>>96790783
The Dolmenwood thief specifically uses a "fix" from OSE's own Carcass Crawler...

>>96790684
>Firstly, it's been turned into something like a Disney reinterpretation of English folklore rather than something that draws from the folklore directly, like Wormwood was initially.
https://torchless.substack.com/p/setting-boundaries-the-ruin-that
I got you bro.

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>>96790827
I got YOU bro!
https://pastebin.com/Q8fE7HPH

>>96790863
Nice one br-
>PDF link no longer works
Bruh.

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>>96790827
>>96790863
It's nice to be reminded how this general still rocks, despite the demoralization shitposters

>>96790894
>>96790896
Yeah, I saw and I've just fixed it, bruh! Check the link again!

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>>96790900
My.
Fucking.
Man.

>>96790936
Nothing but the best for my fellow /osrg/ bros! May Gygax bless your dice and may 2etard get bone cancer!

>>96790827
I hadn't really realised until recently that there might be OSR content on Substack. I've mainly been reading blogposts from last decade.
Can any anons recc good stacks to follow?

>>96792304
Yeah that Torchless one is good, but there's no "blogroll" or whatever you'd call it on substack to link to other people.

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>>96781057
Your culture is bitching about things you personally don't like. But you have no real basis to say it isn't OSR.

/osrg/'s greatest tradition has always been to get into arguments with nogames shitposters

I have a question that will probably come across as stupid, but it just dawned on me in the last session when playing a thief for the first time.
If I have to have a torch to move around in darkness, how do I scout ahead as a thief in dungeons? How do I do sneak attacks if I need to have a light source?

>>96781057
>>I refuse to adapt to the culture of this place
Says the guy who doesn't understand anything about 4chan culture.
Generals are not private chatrooms for 2-3 losers who wank each other while screaming at everyone who doesn't conform to them.

>>96793051
You don't "sneak attacks" because this isn't WotC D&D, you backstab.

Except you shouldn't backstab because it's pretty much a guaranteed way to get killed as a Thief in D&D, at least for the first few levels. In fact, the PHB is very explicit that backstabbing is a secondary function for Thieves.

Nor should you be scouting ahead, for the same reason. Scouting ahead in dungeons is an AD&D thing, and the races that are best suited for that are Elves and Halflings, ideally fighters (or multiclassed fighters), best if with high dexterity, who have specific scouting special abilities. Half-Elf rangers can manage too, but not as well. Thieves are in a distant third place.

In B/X, if anybody should lead the way it's probably Dwarves, because at least they're good at finding room traps* (unlike thieves, who suck at that) and have excellent saves if they can't find them. And the DM might even allow you to shoot missiles over their heads.

* Except there's the issue that searching in B/X is broken because it takes too long. In AD&D it takes between ONE TENTH of the time it takes in B/X, so it's an activity you actually can do without needing the DM to spoon feed you hints that there's something to be found.

>>96793378
> In AD&D it takes ONE TENTH of the time it takes in B/X
No "between"

>>96790684
>Three features of interest per hex is far too much.
One is too much. Well balanced hexcrawls have a feature in somewhere from one in five to one in ten hexes.

>>96790962
Amen. From your lips to God's ears.

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>>96793051
Personally, I stole ACKS' shadowy senses for thieves: the gist is they can "sense" the general layout of a completely dark area through a combination of preternatural senses like expert hearing bordering on echo-location.
Mechanically that translates to:
>30' of shadowy senses
>Can sense location and general body mass of creatures but not what type it is unless there's a tell.
>Can perform searches to potentially uncover secret doors or traps.
>Cannot read in the darkness.
it's a big buff to the vanilla B/X thief no doubt, but I feel like that's a good thing. That might not be everyone's cup of tea but it works for me.

>>96793378
NTA, but I find myself in agreement with the spoilered text. I think I'm gonna add quicker searching and listening checks in my B/X game. I really should just read the AD&D books cover to cover some day and make appends to the rules.

>>96793444
I think it really depends on the context. Shadowy senses is not a terrible rule on a B/X chassis, and there's a few things to fix anyway, for example the afore-mentioned times to search.

I wouldn't use shadowy senses on an AD&D chassis because there's too many moving parts connected to infravision and how races and classes work in there. Also it's moot to begin with, because most Thieves are multiclassed demihumans with infravision anyway.

Nor would I use it in OD&D, because I love that no PC has anything like infravision, only monsters do.

For hexcrawls, how do you guys handle player's knowledge of the map?
Do you give them an empty hexmap to fill out? An abstracted map of key locations?
Nothing and let them figure it out?

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>>96793695
>Do you give them an empty hexmap to fill out?
Yes, as stated in pretty much all first decade sources. Picrel.

>An abstracted map of key locations?
No.

>Nothing and let them figure it out?
Absolutely not. Hexes are player-facing. They know which hex they are in (barring getting lost) and what the terrain of that hex is, and they mark it on an empty hex map that they are provided with.

>>96793762
thank you, based rules collator

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I got Hex Crawl Chronicles in the big humble bundle a couple weeks ago, it looks really cool
But the hex maps are black and white in some of them. I tried googling around and could only find hex maps for some of the other entries in the series and a few that didn't get published, but I cannot find a color map of The Pirate Coast.
Anybody have it? or know of a way to easily recolor it?

>>96793695
>An abstracted map of key locations?
IMO you shouldn't just give the players this automatically for your starting region as they set out or whatever but players *should* be able to purchase in-game maps which you should then draw for them at an appropriate level of accuracy (within your ability to produce such maps). Then it's their job to try to fit these maps together with their blank hexmap, working out relative scales and so on.

KotB question: the Hobgoblin Chief does 1d8+2 damage due to his strength and skill, does that also mean he has a +2 to hit? i.e., as a 5HD monster, does he have thac0 15, or 13 after a +2?

>>96794145
>does that also mean he has a +2 to hit? i.e., as a 5HD monster, does he have thac0 15, or 13 after a +2?
TSR 2014 - Moldvay Basic, pg. B36:
"Hobgoblin
AC 6, #APP 1-6 (4-24)
HD 1 + 1, SV F1
MV 90' (30'), ML 8 or see below
#ATT 1 weapon, TT D
D 1-8 or weapon, AL C

(...)The king has hp 22 and fights as a 5HD monster, gaining a bonus of +2 on damage(...)"

Meaning it uses the attack matrix of a 5HD creature and does not gain a special strength bonus to-hit, per the text.

>>96794280
Cheers anon you're a gem

>>96789622
No, it's shit advice that comes from a nogames sperg.

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>>96794145
TSR 2009 - Monster Manual, pg. 52
"HOBGOBLIN
Freq: Uncommon, #APP: 20-200
AC 5, MV 9"
HD 1 + 1, %IN 25
TT indiv. J, M; lair D, Q (x5)
#ATT 1, D 1-8 or by weapon
SPEC.ATT Nil, SPEC.DEF Nil
MR Std, INT Average
AL LE, SIZE M (6½' tall)
PSI: Nil, Att/Def Modes: Nil

(...)Hobgoblin chiefs are armor class 2, 22 hit points, do 2-11 hit points of damage, and fight as 4 hit dice monsters. Their bodyguards are the same as those of sub-chiefs.(...)

(...)Hobgoblins have the following typical weapon distribution.
sword and composite bow 20%
sword and spear 10%
sword and morning star 5%
sword and whip 5%
polearm 30%
spear 10%
morning star 20%
Leaders will always bear two weapons. The tribal standard will be with a sub-chief 20% of the time. It is always present with the chief. The tribal standard causes hobgoblin warriors within 6” to fight harder, thus giving them +1 on their attack dice rolls and +1 on morale (reaction) dice rolls.(...)"

TSR 2011 - Dungeon Masters Guide, Appendix E:
"(...)hobgoblin(d) (d - includes marine variety)(...) THAC0 18 (16/15)*** For guards and leaders, HD 1 + 1, X.P. Value 20 + 2/hp(...)"

The image is from DMG pg. 105-106.

This all is to illustrate what you can find looking around Advanced D&D, the quality of its content, to motivate you to reference and use it.

>>96794345
Yeah, I'm afraid it's done the opposite. I am just starting out running B/X and what you've shown me looks like needless overcomplication. I don't really care what weapons a hobgoblin has, I care what the damage die is. I don't want to worry about a variable +1 depending on positioning, I want a thac0 number to keep in my head for the encounter.
Perhaps when I am stocking my own dungeon this sort of miscellania will be of use but for now I'm just trying to prep for session 2.

>>96793524
>I wouldn't use shadowy senses on an AD&D chassis because there's too many moving parts connected to infravision
nta but that's also handled in ACKS by basically nixing quite a lot of races having infravision.
It actually gives the thief something unique rather than everyone and their dog being able to see in the dark.

>>96794145
>does that also mean he has a +2 to hit?
No.

>>96794720
>that's also handled in ACKS by basically nixing quite a lot of races having infravision.
Duh, everybody and their dog knows that demi-humans lose infravision in ACKS, and that's okay in B/X, but that doesn't mean it's "handled" if you just do the same in AD&D, because it breaks things you don't understand, presumably because you've never actually vplayed AD&D.

Removing infravision from AD&D has cascade effects that it doesn't have in B/X. For instance, Elves and Halflings get a +2 to surprise when scouting ahead over 90' from the rest of the party while only wearing leather armour (or less). That's meant to synergise with infravision, and comes at the price of much harsher level limits than in ACKS for e.g. Elf Fighters. If you take away their infravision, you also invalidate their scouting ability entirely, in dungeons and at night, while giving them no upside for it.

More fundamentally, you'd be fixing something that isn't broken in AD&D. If you want a Thief with infravision, you just make a demi-human thief, multiclassing it if desired. No reason to screw over halfling and elf fighters in the process.

>>96794299
nou

Sorry for the cross-post, but in /nsrg/ people have just made a mind-boggling revelation: There's an Anon who has come to be known on the board as "nightlandsfag" and "dyingearthfag" because whenever anybody anywhere mentions Night Lands or Dying Earth, he appears within one hour to throw insane tantrums about it.

The thing is, the MO of this Anon includes:
>claims that a small clique of Night Land shills are pushing it out of sheer evil
>that he himself is lots of people
>that anyone who recognizes that he's a lone faggot is just inventing a "boogeyman"
I shit you not:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93902169/#93922594
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94619506/#94620458
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94619506/#94697578
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94619506/#q94700272

It turns out fishfag = 2etard is also known as an infamous troll under the monicker NLfag (nightlandsfag) and DEfag (dyingearthfag).

This person truly spends most of his day shitting up the whole board on a select number of topics that trigger his psychiatric condition.

Astounding.

>>96795829
Original discussion on /nsrg/:
>>96793422
>>96795418
>>96795555

>>96795829
>>96795844
lol, amazing. God bless the NSRbros for their digging.

I'm trying to think of the hundreds of reports this asshole must have generated over the years he's been at this, and all the while being left to post freely and help run this place into the ground.

>>96795829
So you hate 2e, like ACKS and Nightlands? What else are you going to add to your neurotic profile of "anyone I've ever disagreed with is one person"?

>>96796148
Not sure if it counts as separate from hating 2e, but loving Gygax.

>>96795829
>It turns out fishfag = 2etard is also known as an infamous troll under the monicker NLfag (nightlandsfag) and DEfag (dyingearthfag).
No. No, I can't accept that. That's too much autism. It has to be the US government training a spergbot to shitpost using the board as training fodder or something.

>>96796148
>Nightlands
HA HA HA HA HA HA HOLY FUCK
YOU REALLY ARE THE SAME GUY
I noticed the Night Land sperg consistently used this "Nightlands" misnomer looking through the archive, and *here you are* spontaneously using that identifiable catchword too! Incredible. Unbelievable. Hard to fathom.

>>96796122
>God bless the NSRbros for their digging.
You've decided to go and poison that general just like you've poisoned this one? Don't even bother pretending it wasn't just you, you shameless shit.

>>96796234
So you're just outright lying to everyone here?
>I noticed the Night Land sperg consistently used this "Nightlands"
I just checked your linked posts, and that's not true.
What is wrong with you? ACKS drama wasn't enough for you, 2e drama wasn't enough for you, now you want to show everyone you've got yet another albatross?

>>96795829
>>96796122
>>96796222
His mental illness is progressing
also your personal holy djihads are off topic

>>96796289
This behavior seems almost instinctual for him.
Build up lies about a boogeyman, then try to steer the discussion to be more about the boogeyman than anything else.
I don't even think he understands how dumb he is. He's showing evidence not that there is really a boogeyman, but that he's been haunted by his brain phantom ever since he started trying to make one years ago.
It was pointed out in a thread, and lead to him having a total psychotic episode.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#q96583555

>>96796462
That doesn't look like a psychotic episode to me.

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>>96795829
Fuck that makes a lot of sense. I remember catching buck shot from Nightlandsfag when discussing 'House on the Borderlands' a while back.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94492356/#94502376
Notice something interesting in his posts?
>Wow, get a load of this piece of shit.
>Tedious
>Boring
>Even its own fans admit it's a slog
>It's so bad
>What the fuck is even wrong with you.
Word for word on both the works of Hodgson and ACKS.
Incredible.
Fascinating.
Depressing.

This level of desperate samefagging damage control pretty much confirms that it's the same guy.

Imagine just hanging out on /tg all day, trolling obscure gaming threads as your sole source of personal fulfillment.

>>96796506
Well, he made the post he linked to, so he has to look like a hero in his own unmedicated mind.

>>96796506
That's the post that lead him into one. Someone calling him fishfag for calling everyone else fishfag lead him into a genuinely psychotic moment where he began screaming at someone who wasn't there.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#q96583816
It was in the 3.5 general, so maybe the people there joining in to tell him he's crazy is what really sparked him off.

>>96796506
The fact he watches for any mention of his nickname and just goes apeshit insisting it's not his nickname (for having a tantrum over fish economics) but rather the nickname of the person who told the tale that first set him off is fairly psychotic.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#96583567
There has never been a lazier attempt at gaslighting than 'No-no, you don't understand, September 2025 comes before March 2024!'

>>96796584
Okay. That one does look psychotic.

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>>96796537
Jesus Christ.

>>96796537
lol, this is fucking amazing

>>96796537
>Word for word on both the works of Hodgson and ACKS.
At this point I fully expect him to have more obsessions than just hating /osrg/, Gygax, ACKS, Night Lands, and Dying Earth.

Somebody has to write a blog post somewhere gathering the evidence and detailing the patterns, this is psychiatrically fascinating.

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>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93397063/#93408964
>Buy an aaaaaaaad
Good grief, the more you look into it the worse it gets. All the tag lines, all the salty argumentation, it's all the same recurring template.

>>96796462
He even samefags the same exact way too.

>>96796707
I just picture a Pepe Silva-type diagram with a bunch of completely random items.

>ACKS
>Nightlands
>2nd ed
>Care Bears
>Widespread refrigeration of food
>Lead singer of Supertramp
>Dying Earth

This is just the saddest shit. Our urFag poster makes the average r9k poster look like gigachad.

>>96796773
Also, let's not forget how his trolling received cavalry support from the Janissaries for years.

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>>96796773
>ACKS, ACKS, ACKS, this whole box set is ACKS! But when I go upstairs what do I find out, Mac, what do I find OUT?!
>There ARE. NO. ACKS players! The ACKS enjoyer does not exist, okay?
>...Okay Fishie, I'm gonna have to stop you right there. Not only do ALL of these players exist, but they have been asking for their game on a daily basis! It's all they're talking about up there, Jesus Christ dude...

>all that samefagging
What's up with ackshill having a tantrum again? Did I miss something and he got a temp ban for shitting up another general again?

>>96796845
He posted something in the /nusrg/, was completely ignored, and decided that he needed to post it here instead.

>>96796757
>Buy an ad
>For a book that's in the public domain by this point
This, if nothing else, is proof enough that this low IQ psychotic is the same person each and every time. He doesn't even vary his arguments to have them fit with whatever he's having his Chris-Chan-mode sperg out over, he just beelines the things he thinks he can say to make the bad thing go away.

Words aren't a method of communication for this creature, they're magic spells that get others to do what he wants.
What a fucking bastard eh?

>>96796763
That's the part that concerns me.
The posts he linked have identical samefagging to what he's doing in this thread. Same style, same delirious energy, same blind agreement no matter how weak or nonexistent the point may be.
I don't really know how this board is supposed to deal with a troll with that kind of energy/obsession/autism. Banning him never even gave us a five minute reprieve. This thread being a containment thread for him also seems to have failed.

>>96797052
>What can men do against such reckless faggotry?
I would say someone should bring this before the Jannies on IRC, but we all know that you're more likely to see results sacrificing a goat to Thor and hoping lightning strikes him down one day.
Might be worth a try though, if nothing else they'd be able to confirm it given they can see IPs.

>>96797069
Banning the ACKShill(s) just lead to worse tantrums. The only thing we can hope for is their death.

If nothing else, knowing that he is unironically Just Like This™ with everyone whenever anything he doesn't like comes up is very reassuring.
Here I was starting to wonder if it was different people I'd been getting into fights with and so on. Maybe I was the problem, ect, ect, surely no one is that dedicated to whining about ACKS whenever it comes up.
But no, he's just bug fuck, bat shit, balls banging off the back side of a bucking bronco bent out of shape about things he doesn't like and nothing will ever fix him except buckshot to the brainstem.

>>96797069
Calling Jannies in doesn't solve the underlying issue. He's also not just ban-evaded in the past, that's how he added "2etard=Fishfag=Janny" to his list of the composite elements of his boogeyman.

>>96797108
>But no, he's just bug fuck, bat shit, balls banging off the back side of a bucking bronco bent out of shape about things he doesn't like and nothing will ever fix him except buckshot to the brainstem.

But, enough about you and 2e.

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>>96797101
>>96797112
Unfortunately we're all talking about you here fishfag, DARVO only works on people who don't realize you're doing it and think you're an honest actor.

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>>96797123
Can you just fuck off already?

>>96797136
Yeah, we already know you own a phone and are eager to use it. What of it? You've been tumbled as being a caustic flailing sperg about anything you hate across a variety of topics by this point.
How about you get to fuck instead?

>>96797112
>>96797122
>>96797136

Hi fishie. Don't you have an angry post about Zoids to make on a Yahoo Group somewhere, you absolute loser.

>>96797123
You keep doing this bogeyman thing, and that's not showing anyone that there's a bogeyman, it's showing you're a guy who keeps trying to make a bogeyman.

>>96797112
>boogeyman
lmao, he really can't resist repeating himself. There has to be a clinical OCD component to his behaviour.

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>>96797178
I really don't know how he can keep pretending there's only one of us. No offense intended anon but you're far, far more abrasive than I am but he ignores that because it doesn't fit with his Faggoty 'Unified ACKShill Theory'

In other entertaining news, Corporate wants you to tell the difference between these two comments:
>People should be aware that [THING] is trash and the people who like are really nothing more than barely-human, mishapen morlocks who want to inflict suffering on other people just to try and rationalize their own self-inflicted pain.
>This is all that [THING] defenders are capable of. They try to filibuster everyone into giving up so that they can lie and try to trick people into [ENGAGING WITH THING]
Guess which one is about Night Lands & which one is about ACKS for a life time supply of LMAO'ing at Fishfag

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One more amusing parallel I noticed.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96615790/#96668689
>As far as this being a containment thread, it really doesn't seem to be acting as one, and as more of a cancerous and malignant tumor on this board, festering with your lies. Hell, you're acting like I didn't directly address and counter an obvious lie, and all just to try and distract how bad you shills can get.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94619506/#94697578
>What I find amazing is the cancerous cyst that's grown on /tg/ that is the Night Lands and its handful of retarded fans.
Boy he sure does love his 'They're subhuman, they're less than people, they are a cancer upon this board' rhetoric.
I wonder how your fuckhead discord tranny allies would feel if they knew about your quirky taste in genocidal rhetoric?

>>96797050
Exactly lmao, the idea that anyone could possibly have anything to gain by shilling obscure public-domain gothic novel The Night Land is just... we're witnessing unbelievable scenes. His attempt to samefag the truth away in this thread is astounding too, no actual engagement with the extremely compromising evidence, just repeated posts insisting it's all lies.

This guy has got wounds.

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>>96797337
>no actual engagement with the extremely compromising evidence, just repeated posts insisting it's all lies.
>>96797385
>This guy has got wounds.

>>96795829
>>96795844
There a huge flaw in this grand unified troll theory. I am one of those people who understands 2e falls under OSR and I don't hate Night Lands (it's on my to read list) or ACKS (I find the fish story to be just meh. Not great but not that bad either) so this idea this guy is also your boogeyman (yes, more than one person know that word) just does not work.

>>96775865
Why is there a 3rd Edition AD&D who made it?

>>96797442
It's a weird fan-made thing, it's not very good though

>>96797422
I don't think anyone matches his bogeyman profile.
I'm meh about 2e, never heard of Night Lands, and think ACKS sucks, and I'm not a janny.

>>96797442
That was a fan work: a fellow by the name of Chris Perkins (but not the more well known designer of the same name).

>>96797422
>I'm retarded, but I'm not THAT specific retard
Weird flex but okay.

>>96797485
The retard here is you.

>>96797422
>I am one of those people who understands 2e falls under OSR and I don't hate Night Lands (it's on my to read list) or ACKS (I find the fish story to be just meh. Not great but not that bad either) so this idea this guy is also your boogeyman (yes, more than one person know that word) just does not work.
Alright, that's fine.
Have you spent the last 3 years constantly claiming that everyone who doesn't hate Night Lands, does like ACKS or doesn't agree with you on 2e is totes a shill who is being paid to be here by Marcis/the ghost of Gygax/Gutenberg?
If not then great, jolly good, you're not Fishfag, you're just someone I, personally, disagree with.
We can argue, we can discuss these things, you aren't going to shit up the entire thread demanding that it be your way (presumably) or throw a tantrum any time these issues come up.

The argument isn't that everyone who holds these opinions is the same person.
It's that there's a single freak who various people across various fandoms on this board have ID'd because he's a nasty, malicious little cuntflap about any of the various topics he seethes about and people are now starting to go 'You're dealing with the same bullshit from the same guy, fucking Christ'

It's the equivalent of living in a small town and everyone in a specific row of houses coming out one day to find someone has smashed all their letter boxes in the middle of the night, they call the person who did it the Letterbox Bastard, meanwhile another group finds someone has been selling porn to teenager boys and calls him the Porn Dealer and the local shop finds a bunch of stock missing and starts complaining about Stickyfinger coming around again.

Then they catch a single guy and it turns out he was behind all 3 types of bullshit ongoing.
Doesn't matter if you're also driving around late at night or thumbing porn on the sly, you're not the reprobate stirring up all the trouble are you?

>>96797422
>>96797455
I'm actually close.

2e=OSR, ACKS=meh but its fans are psychos, and didn't enjoy Night Land at all.

But, still not his boogeyman.

>>96797524
Night Land the game, or The Night Land book?

>>96797422
>ACKS (I find the fish story to be just meh. Not great but not that bad either)
Alright time to do a Voigh-Kampff test and see if you're a real person or just Fishfag samefagging again.
Can you acknowledge, in writing, the point of the ACKS fishing story isn't to be the next Lord of the Rings, but rather the writer explaining how the system enabled what his players wanted to do and that it helped him keep the world consistent?
No need to give your opinion on if that's good or not/if fishing is something players should be getting up to/if the system does it well.
Just a simple question; what's the point of the story that was told?

>>96797555
The book.

It's really bad.

>>96796707
But, I love Jack Vance. So, not the boogeyman after all.

>>96797649
>Alright time to do a Voigh-Kampff test

lol

>>96797649
It's not what I would use as I would go with something like finding gems or ore but it shows ACKS has systems other than combat so for that it works.

>>96797685
I respect and acknowledge your humanity anon, we might disagree but you are not a Replicant.
>I would go with something like finding gems or ore
Yeah but the thing is that'd be making shit up, AzteCKS DM used an actual example that happened as his table.
Shit, if anything, making shit up about how totes good the system is and how it's baller Spacejam because [Insert fake and gay story here] would actually be shilling.
Rather than what Fishfag calls Shilling, that being anything that sprinkles sand into his hypersensitive neovagina.

>>96797649
>Can you acknowledge, in writing, the point of the ACKS fishing story isn't to be the next Lord of the Rings, but rather the writer explaining how the system enabled what his players wanted to do and that it helped him keep the world consistent?
Would it upset you if someone called that story boring?

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here is a blast from the past anons
threads were quite nice
>different systems discussed, including 2e, DCC, X-hack, even SWN
>lots of dungeons and modules discussion and sharing

>>96797714
>Yeah but the thing is that'd be making shit up, AzteCKS DM used an actual example that happened as his table.
If the only real example he could pull up was "they fished", that's kind of a problem.

>>96797500
Good job finding yourself.

>>96797716
It wouldn't upset me, but it's useless as a criticism because it's subjective. You find it boring, I find it interesting (and want to hear more). Your opinion isn't in any way more valid than mine, thus it's useless as a criticism. Like why should I care what (You) find boring?

>>96797329
They're usually really into that if its directed at Baddies anon. That's bog standard Humanism.
>have Human category
>exclude group you are against from category
>do horrendous shit to non-humans while being Good

>>96797751
I did not make your posts.

>>96797716
Yes. It would.
If you haven't figured it out yet, his whole identity is built around trying to tell stories.
And being really bad at telling them.
If someone makes fun of his story or a story he likes, his instinct is to try and make a story where he's being victimized by a phantom and then everyone clapped.
Of all the mean things people have said about ACKS, the thing he can't get over is people saying a fishing story was boring.

>>96797717
Most of the things on that are still funny.
>osr is a game style, not a mechanic
lmao this shit comes up too often.
I think the part you're missing and I miss it too, is being able to make fun of or laugh at ourselves. That's basically gone in the hyper aggressive social media environment we're stuck in.

>>96797779
so le ackshill is ... le storyshitter?

>>96797753
>It wouldn't upset me
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#q96583816
lol

>>96797773
Yes you did.

They're really leaning into
>just accuse everyone of doing what we do
but it seems overall to just be part of the old
>I hate /osrg/ so will do anything to shit it up
sort of stuff that's been building for ages.

>>96797716
Here we see a perfect example of failing the test. Absolute deflection since engaging with the point being made would mean conceding it.

>>96797729
>If the only real example he could pull up was "they fished", that's kind of a problem.
Having read most of the AzteCKS campaign? It's not the only example in there. There's all kinds of interesting and whacky shit he does with the system. Unique races, adjusting classes, special monsters, faction play.
It's solidly in "Pretty neat" territory and no one's posted much like it in /osrg/ before.
Frankly I think he was rather charitable with Fishfag by not pointing out when he posted it that the story was in there, personally I would've memed on him hard if it'd been me.
It really does seem like that's just what happened in his most recent session at the time and he told it as a "Here's why I like ACKS personally" and it's only ever mentioned since because Fishfag has been having his his baby throwing the binkie out the pram moment about it for the past 2 years by this point.