>>96835673
what was her name again?

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Non-binary drag provides great inspiration for World of Darkness characters.

>>96835673
>What type of demon is your favorite to play or speculate on?
Are any of the demons in World of Darkness: Inferno playable?

>>96835710
Surely, there's some conversion floating there. Which of the Akathartoi interest ya?

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Will you defeat them, your demons and all the non-believers, the plans that they have made?
Because one day, I'll leave you a phantom to lead you in the summer to join the black parade.

>>96835748
It seems that possessed mortals are playable.

Wraith the Oblivion Lore: A Tour of the Underworld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SdwAfPV6qg
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTDXW0PEYBq8e0SAo0mTfblBZwxwq6tDN

Not sure why, but with the upcoming "Boy and Door burn Down an O'Tolleys" Audiolog, I kinda want them to team up with some Garou to do it...but only because Door caught a glimpse of the Garou rigging explosives to blow the place up and them doing it so incorrectly offending his Mining Sensiblities.

>>96835673
>TQ
Inferno Demons. No Lucifer Apologia, no Techno-Gnosticism. Just good old fashioned demons.

>>96835685
The Nameless One

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So if you think about it it doesn't make sense for The Eldest or Cappadocius or Assamites to have created the Baali. It was obviously Saulot stretching morality. The Nameless One was just his pseudonym.

Halfway through reading V20's Dust to Dust and it's pretty interesting as a setup to a Chicago chronicle. The whole Lodin storyline with his extended plot is also interesting, plus connections to Al Capone... yeah, this is a fun setup when you extend it to everything else. I can see why this stuff keeps getting reprinted.

I think Caine is probably an alright guy. If you went up to him and offered to play splitscreen coop with him he'd probably do it

>>96836321
>Beat Caine at Mario Kart due to bad RNG
>He frenzies and eats you
Yeah he's a top lad had a pint with him last Tuesday evening.

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>>96836321
Caine is probably chill 99% of the time these days but at his core, he is a loser through and through. From Book of Nod to Time of Judgement, it never changed.
>Michael: You literally caused humans to become Sleepers, separated the spirit and material worlds, caused the creation of concepts of Murder, Deceit and Cruelty by killing your own brother with a rock through First Murder. But God is forgiving and you just need to ask for it.
NO
>Next day Raphael: Your brother Abel forgives you for murdering him. God is still going to forgive you if you just ask. Do you accept?
NO
>Next day Uriel: God straight up forgave you, no need to ask for it. I will literally take you to Heaven the moment you give your ok.
NO

I'm new to WOD, specifically VTM having only really played the one video game. I was reading in the last thread about how Ventrue and Lasombra are sort of mirror clans who are very similar. Are there other clans that have a crossover like those two?

>>96835702
These are all easily changeling NPCs. Also I really like the new trend of using makeup to draw comic book-esque features on you face for cosplays. It looks uncanny but cool at the same time.

>>96835954
Boy is 100% going to be confirmed a kinfolk, but not necessarily Garou kinfolk.

>>96836540
Are there any reasons as to why one SHOULDN'T hate Caine?

>>96836758
Toreador and Brujah are too sides of the same coin, with Toreador trying their best to mimic humanity and Brujah actually being close to it. Gangrel and Nosferatu (by the end both are Masquerade breaking monstrosities). Tremere and Tzimisce, the Tzimisce are the rightful lords while the Tremere are usurpers. Malkavian and everyone else.

>>96836758

Not really, the closest are the Ravnos and Gangrel sharing a nomad theme. Everyone else is unique enough not to have overlap that isn't just an extension of being a vampire.

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>>96836823
He didn't charge for taxi fare.

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HtVanon back to update.

It's been a busy few weeks. One of the players had to drop out and we've picked up another in their place, and another player retired their character. Both PCs will continue to exist as NPCs in the background. One thing I want to do is build up the players paranoia that a skinwalker has replaced one of the PCs, but that will take time to foster. Our new PCs are both members of the Union (a more 1970s UK-flavoured Union. Not racist, just don't like 'em), sent to Basildon as it's made the national news in the wake of several mass murders and an apartment building fire.

It's always rough having a session devoted to getting a new PC over the hump of "why would we trust this person and go monster hunting with them? Because they're a PC", but the Players have expressed interest in hunting down the Vampire Killer, as well as strange lights that several Slashers have seen that compel them to kill specific people. The PCs are suspecting it to be a Will o' the Wisp in the marshes south of town. They've also encountered a pharmacist called Tomasz, who unbeknownst to them has developed an alternate personality that loves poisoning people at the hospital. His regular persona has no idea about this, and just thinks he's under a lot of stress with how many bodies are coming into the hospital nowadays.

As an aside, I've realised that I've been picturing my Vampire Killer (a Ghoul who lost his master and is just drinking blood as his body ages 40 years in a month) wrong. He drains his victims dry, but he's no Vampire so he's just supernaturally bloated with a pot belly, and hemochromatosis. But I realised that the best reference for his physique is the Spitter from Left 4 Dead 2. Lanky, emaciated but pot bellied.

>>96836849
>Both PCs will continue to exist as NPCs in the background. One thing I want to do is build up the players paranoia that a skinwalker has replaced one of the PCs, but that will take time to foster.
Now that's a nice fucking idea, I love it.

>>96837098
It would've been easy to just kill the PCs off, but it'd feel a bti transparent imo. The Skinwalker has been established but is currently missing, and was last encountered stabbing one of the retired PCs with a paring knife. I'm going to be flavouring the NPCs as very much "I hunted, but I need to move on with my life. I want to put all of this, and you behind me" if the PCs seek them out. As the PCs integrity lowers and they become more paranoid, they'll surely start to wonder "How *can* they just put this behind them?" And then they'll be reminded of that skinwalker that can imitate a person. And maybe then the former PCs insistence of "no leave me alone" might not ring as true anymore.

>>96836085
But, but Saulot was muh good boy who dindu nuffin wrong

Every time I have a shitty night at work I just want to go absolutely ape shit. Just straight up Quake engine multikill instagib subwoofer-exploded-from-the-heavy-bass-in-my-mind-space I am a threat to society come and lock me up but get ready for me to unleash the beast and I don’t mean me simply unzipping my jeans

>>96835673
Who is this, actually?

>>96837329
I understand you, woofbro. What I do in cases like this is come to 4chan, put music all high and boost a videogame or a movie filled with action and violence while shooting shit on 4chan

>>96837489
Mostly the same. My computer got fucked because Asus Pentex is trying to get me to do alcohol again but I know what they’re putting in beer now and don’t even get me started on vodka that shit has antifreeze and it’s getting harder to remain stable without a depressant because Uncle Ted’s voice gets louder without something to dull my vision while riding the bus and seeing all the fucking pollution hovering around the city, not to mention the trash on the streets, and I don’t mean the whores

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> Boo-hoo, my grognards friends only want to stick to VtM and WWtA and HtR and they don't even want to try Abuse: the PTSD with me.

Although they pose a honest question I didn't really know how to respond except with vibes (I dunno, I'm a sucker for fey fuckery), which is: what's the core drive of the game? Are we supposed to roleplay hiding from eldritch horrors who want to snatch us back while we try to lay low and keep our job at Walmarts or get our accounting degree?

I'm sure that's a better way to put it, but I admit that it's somewhat more abstract and "for its own's sake" (meaning, sure you can play pretend daily minutia but other systems have a much more direct beeline towards what "you're supposed to do" or a clearer grasp of what the backbone of a game will be) than stuff like V or WW or H.

Sure not as abstract as some OTHER stuff, but still.

>>96837674
What a fucking piece of shit cover.

>>96837554
Sounds like you could use some meds to calm down, I hear Megadon might have something for you.

>>96837693
Hahahaha give me your home address now

>>96837685
Wholeheartedly agree, especially the already barely visible green-or-green moth being just as unclearly skewered by a thorn in what's possibly the laziest photosop layer work ever.

Still, I love fae shit and I would really love to get my head around how a realistic CtL game would be expected to go.

>>96837674
It seems to me most games ignore the central pretense and just fuck around as the weird goblins they now are. The system tries to beat you over the head with the theme but you can ignore it and just run the courts as the vague vibes they're also presented as.

>>96837554
Alcohol and drugs are a temporal and barely functional solution. The best way is looking for a hobby or bigger goal and dedicating your time to it. In my case I enjoy drawing and collecting edgy shit. But it could be anything because the voices in the head won't go away just drinking booze

>>96837716
>>96837674
It'd probably depend on the local court and maybe how long it's been since your players escaped. They should have examples like the child contract thing or the court problems in miami

>>96837554
Also ASUS is kinda shit. people hype these computers up but they're not that good. MSI is another computer brand from Taiwan that is way, way better than ASUS since your computer won't randomly die for some retarded shit. or at least it will last you longer. because it seems like ASUS just getting fucked is not that uncommon

>>96837774
>It seems to me most games ignore the central pretense and just fuck around as the weird goblins they now are. The system tries to beat you over the head with the theme but you can ignore it and just run the courts as the vague vibes they're also presented as.

I'm perfectly fine with the theme, in theory. I'm not sure how that would realistically translate into an actual game, tho. Except for maybe really short ones in which you don't have enough time to get bored of the core concept of laying low and being always scared that fae gonna rape ya.

>>96837229
I run them like that unironically.

>>96837800
My ASUS motherboard shorted out after 6 months. I’m switching back to Acer because even if it is demon technology Acer at least works for years.

>>96837781
My hobby is being a substitute DM/GM/ST and using Teamspeak to guide, narrate, and officiate games for random strangers. Hence the need for a laptop. It lets me flex my voice acting, creative writing, and improvisation chops.

>>96837715
As much as I love meeting new people I really can't. Got too much work as of late, we've got a big collab project coming up.

>>96837674
>what's the core drive of the game
Dealing with the issue of your own Keeper.
Working collectively with other changelings to help each other deal with each other's Keepers, in the formats of motleys and freeholds.
Figuring out what the best way of dealing with Keepers is, which is represented by the court system. Ignore them, fight them, bargain with them, hide from them, and other possibilities.
Dealing with other changelings who choose other ways of dealing with the Keeper problem. This can involve rivalries between courts, or dealing with freebooter, loyalists, militia or bridgeburners.
Reclaiming your lost humanity, one way or another. This may involve dealing with your fetch to recall your old identity or it may involve forging a new identity entirely and trying to lead a new life.
Exploring your fey nature, which typically involves indulging in the Hedge and all of the goblin nonsense going on there. It's not easy for changelings to let go of all of the wonders of Arcadia.
Maintaining a balance between the reclamation of humanity and exploration of fey wonders. Going too far in either direction is generally a bad idea and comes with consequences.
>>96837811
>Except for maybe really short ones in which you don't have enough time to get bored of the core concept of laying low and being always scared that fae gonna rape ya.
That's a rather hardcore winter court approach to the Gentry issue, that's far from the only way of handling your Keeper.

Is it morally wrong to hunt magical diddle victims?

>>96837229
Saulot has three Eyes.
The Salubri
The Tremere
The Baali

>>96837871
and the salubri also have 3 bloodlines.. is saulot just a autist who is really into number 3?

also can't believe that it took till v20 for someone to introduce a 3rd saulot personality

>>96836841
LaCroix was paying it

>>96835225
AI animation is getting better, lol

>>96837953
>Give sleepers AI
>They make reality deviant porn
I think we made w mistake

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>>96837871
The Tremere belong to a different master.

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>>96837953
Yes

>>96837953
>And he shifts into Crinos, let me just open chatgpt...

>>96837835
>That's a rather hardcore winter court approach to the Gentry issue, that's far from the only way of handling your Keeper.

Ok, I got that Winter is the "Fear is king. Hide in terror" faction, but I still don't see how that wouldn't be the default mode for every changeling. They can't do shit against the Fae except evade or loophole them. So that means throwing Keepers at them like saturday morning cartoons (which kinda sorta deflates them, you don't casually deal with Antedeluvians in VtM), otherwise it's either the PCs fucking up their normality on purpose and get somebody's attention, or what's essentially a beaten-housewife-laying-low simulation.

For example
> Dealing with the issue of your own Keeper.
> Working collectively [...]
> Figuring out [...]
> Dealing with other changelings [...]

These all revolve around a Keeper so, as I said above, it seems like there must always be some Red Hand of Stillness (also called The One Who Walks at Greens, a fae keeper who's bizzarely obsessed by traffic lights), fucking shit up for the whole gang, otherwise what is everybody supposed to be doing except unwarranted changeling infighting. But having a Keeper always there that kinda defeats the point of the fae being an eldritch looming threat.

> Reclaiming your lost humanity [...]
> Exploring your fey nature [...]
> Maintaining a balance [...]

All these seems to require MASSIVE player buy-in, like "Ok, I'm done at the yoga class, I'm feeling energized so I'll go cavort in the Hedge lol who cares if I get spotted teehee I'm magical also the plot must happen somehow". And while it surely is interesting as a concept, I wonder how likely is it even for the average WoD group.

I mean, Hunters are shit out of luck too, but at least their mission to go die horribly trying to kill monsters is a much direct core loop to grasp.

I'm not trying to be an asshole contrarian, I just want to get an idea of a functional CtL chronicle so I can unleash it on my friends.

>>96837996
Implying he doesn't just stays in crinos everywhere except when dealing with humans (which he avoids doing)

>>96836811
Changeling: the Dreaming is so queer-coded. Do cis hets even play it?

>>96838030
Storytellers not prompting Rage rolls at the drop of a hat are betraying the system.

>>96838033
>Changeling: the Dreaming is so queer-coded.
There's a joke here I could make about child molestation... I don't really feel like making it, though.

>>96838057
Miss me with that W5 shit

>>96838057
You know the animal rage rolls only come from cars or moving onto tile from carpet or wood. They're safe for the most part

Besides Mages, are the True Fae stats comparable to fighting a playable splat group?
Like can a band of WtF Werewolves take one down outside (or inside) the Hedge/Arcadia with appropriate gifts?

>>96838124
>inside the hedge
Lel
>outside
Maybe but then you'd just run into the normal Gentry problem where they just lose a title and now their vindictive. You'd probably have to send that fucker to the shadow realm or cause a firestorm

>>96838033
CtD, DtF and MtR are all basically in NPC-only jail.
Changelings are too fragile for the rest of the world of darkness.
Fallen are too dull
Mummies are alright actually, but whole games with multiple mummies lose their flair really quickly. There's not enough inter-mummy conflict. Mummies are like the Garou if they didn't have a rage problem...which makes them too perfect to have as player characters. Now if there were mummies working for different patrons with different webs of life, THAT would be interesting. Necromancy is a global concept after all...but they region locked it to Egypt and the middle east because of mummification.

>>96835759
Has anybody ever managed to play this?

Every player having two characters and they all do PvP against each other across the table if not even against your own other PC seems like an impossible task even for the most unhinged of storyshitters.

>>96838008
>I still don't see how that wouldn't be the default mode for every changeling
Maybe for loners who don't have the protection of their motley, court and freehold.
>They can't do shit against the Fae except evade or loophole them
Maybe in the first edition, but there's a lot more that can be done about the Gentry in the second edition.
>So that means throwing Keepers at them like saturday morning cartoons
Keepers don't need to solve every problem personally. Loyalists exist, huntsmen exist and there's a lot of problems that Keepers can throw at their changelings before they come to handle them personally.
>otherwise it's either the PCs fucking up their normality on purpose and get somebody's attention, or what's essentially a beaten-housewife-laying-low simulation.
There's a middle ground, with Keepers becoming aware of changelings when the Storyteller feels like it fits the narrative and when changelings grab their attention either due to unintentional fuck-ups or intentionally, as a part of a narrative.
>But having a Keeper always there that kinda defeats the point of the fae being an eldritch looming threat.
The Keeper is an eldritch looming threat, but a changeling's Keeper is such an important part of its life that its relationship with its Keeper is going to influence a lot of its decisions. The Keeper doesn't have to be an active presence in the story for a changeling to realise that joining a motley, court and freehold is smart and to try and stop other courts and antagonistic changeling factions from fucking things up for them.
>All these seems to require MASSIVE player buy-in
Without grounding themselves and living among humans, a changeling is going to struggle with retaining Clarity and risks losing their mind. By ignoring the Hedge and refusing to harness their fey side, a changeling is going to be effectively useless to their motley, court and freehold and they're going to be easy pickings for their Keeper.

>>96838008
Having said all of >>96838166:
>I'm not trying to be an asshole contrarian, I just want to get an idea of a functional CtL chronicle so I can unleash it on my friends.
What are your favourite aspects of Changeling the Lost?

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Total Kindred Death. The ”lost” creeds wayward and hermit are the best ones.

>>96838092

>You're an unstoppable engine of destruction whose incapability of keeping their inner rage at bay has historically fucked any chance of working together with their peers to accomplish their literal reason to exist, but hey of course using a mechanic for that is an agency-depriving no-no so feel free to be an unstoppable engine of destruction whenever you feel like and be the bestest of boys boop the snoot at any other time.

My first character was a Rage 10 Ahroun, because I had no idea of how the system worked so I listened to the table telling me (probably because they were used to the forgiving attitude of the ST towards Rage rolls) to spend all freebies on that.
And honestly I was a bit disappointed when I found out that I was indeed supposed by the crunch to fly off the handle because somebody looked at me funny. Sure I slapped some bitch around (none of which had to roll Rage either of course) when the pack was having disagreements, but "I hit you ONCE to get my point across and/or because you're not honoring hierarchy" is a much different thing that "OH SHIT HULK SMASH HOLD HIM HOLD HIM DOWN FOR GAIA'S SAKE".

If you don't play every garou (except one SPECIFICALLY built against that) as on the constant verge of roid rage you're doing it wrong: oh, cool, you can kill anything and have no other problem whatsoever, la di da.

>>96837990
This isn't a proper animation of a cat shooting a gun.

>>96835710
possessed mortals in the same books are playable and they give you options what the chronicle might look like

the demons also pretty much use the same sin system as owod devil's due so you can probably cook up something with the demon translation guide

>>96838177
>What are your favourite aspects of Changeling the Lost?

As I said, I'm a sucker for fae shit. I guess stuff like drawing from folk tales, the whole contract shenanigans as a source of power, or the (maybe a bit meta-narrative and up-its-own-ass, but I like it) idea of playing a being that's somewhat "narrative" in nature (to the point of the Gentry being what they are because they have told themselves into their current state of being).
I also like the idea of playing somebody who's forced onto their back-foot because they are much weaked of whatever they're up against and by whome they have already been abused and broken, and I'm intrigued by the idea of coming up with a way to cope with that (which I guess is one of the core themes of CtL).

The problem, tho, is not be playing, is convincing somebody else to. Because when you look at the other systems:

> WWtA: you're proactively aggressive and dealing with shit by taking it apart is your reason of being
> VtM: you're way above the human cattle, and you only appease your superiors out of self-interest while trying to undermine or topple them
> HtR: you're weaker than what you're up against, but the entire point is that you have a suicide mission and you'll die trying

While CtL seems stuck in a place where none of that entirely applies: you are not strong enough to go on the offensive like a werewolf would, even considering disagreements it makes no sense to scheme against the organized changeling community because otherwise the fae will eat you all, and you are not on a suicide mission that will keep your game loop going because the entire point is that you escaped with your life and you won't go back.

So, while I personally would bend backwards in favor of activelly pursuing the "vibe" of the game (as I understood it), I still feel like any narrative impetus is way too player-dependent to be welcomed by groups used to the game giving them much clearer "concept" of what they're supposed to be doing.

>>96838331
I don't think bro was on the trigger. This some SIG moment, not even his fault.

>>96837903
You're reminding me of when I was pitching Babylon 5 to my friends.

"The Minbari are obsessed with the number three. To the point that it causes major societal problems for them."

>>96837951
Caine making LaCroix pay for the Neonate's taxi fair is not a mark against Caine.

>>96838459
>I still feel like any narrative impetus is way too player-dependent to be welcomed by groups used to the game giving them much clearer "concept" of what they're supposed to be doing.

This reads like Martian to me. "Oh no, I, the player, am not forced into a single type of goal or plotline. Whatever shall I do without the game telling me what I'm supposed to do?!" I love games that just turn me loose on an interesting world or let the person running the game come up with the plot rather than limiting them by the game's very conceit.

I'm also going to be a pedant and say
>VtM: you're way above the human cattle, and you only appease your superiors out of self-interest while trying to undermine or topple them

Isn't really accurate and one of the things I love about VTM is it isn't a game that has a notion of "what you should be doing". Your description is fine for a low humanity Camarilla vampire, or an atypically shrewd Sabbat vampire, but it's hardly the game's "concept". It's atypical, but not difficult at all to play VTM with a politically unambitious character. I would know, because last time I actually got to play VTM, my character was the only one interested in climbing the power ladder by the end. Not everyone is materially incentivized to undermine or topple their superiors either. Ventrue lose out a ton if they go against their own, they have immense incentive to topple other vampires. Tremere are similar except there's no carrot to go with the stick, it's just two sticks. The Followers of Set mostly believe in that crazy shit. etc. VTM, like CTL, has too many ways you can play it for a pithy statement to summarize what the game "does", and that's why it's great.

>>96836540
That's how you know Caine's sheet was written in-universe.

bloodlines 2 made me miss lacroix he would curse like a pissbaby about how everyone is useless but he would give me the job to kill everyone of these anarch and sabbat fucks and then pay me at least (and make sure his agent isn't living in a meth lab)

the fact that he is a antagonist at the end also makes him more respectable than what's her name even and him being above his head is more interesting than the vtmb2 version of it because he is proactive about what he is trying to do

>>96838269
Eh, I feel like the "woofs are supposed to murder everyone around them if someone within earshot sneezes" is overplayed, especially in regards to how it influenced the Garou Nation's choices in the past. I think stuff like the impergium and the war of rage were more of a consequence of "you can solve any problems with enough rip and tear" mindset their culture encourages (which does esteem in part from their Luna-given Rage) and the tribes that know this is retarded are actively ostracized

That being said, I do agree with you in that a 5+ rage garou (especially if they're a cliath or a cub fresh out of his first change) should get locked in murder mode more easily

>>96838459
If I have to come up with a short and simple way of describing CtL's shtick, it would be:
>CtL: Something vastly superior to you has done terrible things to you and if it finds you again, it will do far worse. You must decide for yourself what the best solution to this problem is, and what 'solutions' would only make the problem worse.
As for your other points:
>you are not strong enough to go on the offensive like a werewolf would
The primary goal of the Summer Court is to amass enough strength to directly challenge the Gentry and the minions in combat. For a Summer Lost, going on the offensive is the idealistic endgame. Not marching into Arcadia, that's suicide, but directly challenging and fighting their Keeper in a fairer battleground.
>even considering disagreements it makes no sense to scheme against the organized changeling community because otherwise the fae will eat you all
Some of the Lost might fear that changelings of other courts are not just going down a self-destructive path, but that they're endangering the rest of the freehold too. Summer courtiers might try to conscript the other courts to fight for them when their king is threatened, Spring courtiers might have their festivals disrupted because other courts consider them an unproductive waste of time, Winter courtiers might intentionally destroy a powerful artefact that could be used against the Gentry out of the fear that it would earn the freehold the wrath of the True Fae if it was used, and so on.
The fact that the Gentry aren't united is also important. Keepers typically operate independently and cooperation between them is something to be terrified about. So, not all of the Keepers are going to descend at once if a freehold is in turmoil.

>>96838550
>This reads like Martian to me. [...]
Me too, my man, but I harshly came to discover that's the baseline to be kept in mind at all times. If anybody, or everybody, exceeds it, that's great. But expecting it to be like that by default is a recipe for disappointment and disaster for all but the rarest of groups.
Of course the goal can be vague, but more often than not one (and a pretty strong one) is needed to even start the game. It's the same for every system, honestly: in D&D you know you're supposed to go adventuring, to kill stuff and take their shit, so even if left to your own devices you're going to at least check the questboard at the inn. As much as I love the game concept, I feel like that backbone clear goal is left kinda vague in Changeling.

> I'm also going to be a pedant and say [...]
Eh. I mean, some might not want to climb the power ladder, but the power ladder is there and it is an actively antagonistic aspect of the core gameplay. You can choose opt out, but sure as shit it will never fully ignore you and you will have to work with or around it. So, for good or for bad, the scheming is always a game-forwarding part of a VtM game.
With Changeling, at least at face value, not so much. Courts are not a predatory institution, but a community of survivors with a common enemy that have no interest in undermining the protection granted by the Court. Sure, that one time it might happen that factions might be particularly at odds with each other, or that a loyalist plot is afoot and the Court itself is in danger, but for it to being the durable plot point of a long-spanning chronicle (that is not supposed to end with the resolution of that specific plotline) is unlikely and possibly unfun. So, politics and scheming is out as a core game loop.

And you can apply this "Sure, it can happen as a plot point, but it doesn't really enforce a clear concept of the game by itself" thing to everything else I mentioned.

>>96837953
Technocracy tricks to consensus woofs into pets

>>96836540
There's a real chance that Caine broke Creation by adding murder, and the universe would already be reset or abandoned like many before, if it wasn't still being maintained to torment Caine in particular. He may be holding down the whole WoD by being the sulkiest bitch.

>>96836849
Refresh my memory but the Vampire Killer is a Mask, right? Meaning he doesn't need to eat, drink or rest. Might not even age anymore, really. HOWEVER, he still feels the pangs of hunger for vitae and is wracked by the agony of a deprived ghoul's accelerated aging, even if he's not aging anymore. Psycho-somatic kind of dealio, in other words.

Here's an idea: What if he developed a sort of sixth sense for traces of vitae and has a predilection for people who've been fed on before or that have tasted vitae before? That would make him an even worse Masquerade risk than he already is with his reckless killing sprees, as he could zero in on any fellow ghouls or even vampires to drain them of vitae. The local Kindred would be racing to put him down and cover it up, especially now that it's spiraled into the public sphere, and that would put them on a collision course with the PCs because They Know Too Much.

This is nothing more than a bunch of spitballing, but let me know if it's useful and inspirational.

>>96838723
Addendum: Easy way to up the stakes, even after the attack on the train? Have him attack someone's ghoul, the more important the vampire the more heat will the PCs attract for being on the case. Reveal someone as a ghoul when the Vampire Killer focuses on them to the exclusion of everyone else. Have him crash the party when the PCs are ambushing a vampire or coterie and turn the situation into a chaotic three-way skirmish.

>>96838614
>I think stuff like the impergium and the war of rage were more of a consequence of "you can solve any problems with enough rip and tear" mindset their culture encourages (which does esteem in part from their Luna-given Rage) and the tribes that know this is retarded are actively ostracized

That's my entire point.
Sure, you're supposed to be the "odd pack out" that will go against the culture and maybe manage to pull existence to safety, but you're still part of that culture and the culture itself is a function of an unrelenting biological impulse which is completely unfit to achieve your ultimate goal of saving the world. Because you were supposed to just be a soldier and never supposed to actually manage or plan shit, but you are a dipshit and killed every other Fera who was built exactly for doing that so know you're way out of your depths no matter how hard you can disembowel anything that crosses your path.

Sure, as a PC you can succeed against all odds and against your own nature, but that nature should be an active part of active game because that's the actual conflict you're facing (tearing shit apart is not a conflict, you know how to do it and you're going to do it, very easily). The "tragedy" of it all if you want.

Skipping Rage rolls would be like playing a Vampire without thirst or Frenzy because "nuh-uh, I don't want to do it!". Who gives a shit that you don't want, that's literally what you are, sooner or later you will inevitably do it so you better find a way to grapple with this fundamental shortcoming of your existence.

>>96838751
Fixing the formatting, sorry.
>Have him attack someone's ghoul, the more important the vampire the more heat will the PCs attract for being on the case.
>Reveal someone as a ghoul when the Vampire Killer focuses on them to the exclusion of everyone else.
>Have him crash the party when the PCs are ambushing a vampire or coterie and turn the situation into a chaotic three-way skirmish.

>>96838593
Same, always liked him back in Bloodlines 1, he had some great dialogue. From what I've seen of 2 most of the npcs are terrible to the point where I'm not seeing much of a downside to the everyone dies ending, well that and how embracing a SI leader is insane.

>>96838593
Same.
Like, LaCroix was 100% sent to LA to fail and he still did admirable job before Jacks BS.
Lou become the Peince when she was a Fledgeling and fucked things up so much.

>>96836540
Sounds based. If you're being railroaded and don't like it, ruin the game.

>In short, the world is fundamentally driven more by darkness than light. Wounds spread through the Shadow, crime rates rise, wars become worse and use more devastating weapons. An inexorable spiral into negativity is a difficult argument to refute.
How do you respond to the Bale Hounds without sounding mad?

>>96838758
For the record, I'm not saying that rage checks should not be a thing, just that a lot of people seem to imply that every mild annoyance like when someone bumps into a woof on the street should trigger one and that's what I think it's silly (in a bad way)

>>96838878
Don't include them

>>96838911
Not what I meant

>>96836540
Why schizos love this oversimplification so much? Is not the first time I see that shitposting here but now it seems to be taken as a serious argument. I hate so much when actual lore is taken and retards run endless with their bullshit. This shit argument almost reeks of some schizophrenic evangelical christian type.

>>96838882
Well, sure, but being constantly on the edge of a crashout is the entire point of a garou.

A dude bumping into you would not even be registered for a Rage roll because it is absolutely inconsequential.

The dude comes back to argue, he gets a FUCK OFF, still no rage rolls.

The dude insists and makes it physical? He's a feeble sack of meat and bones, maybe roll something to see if you manage to walk away or deflect or make the dude back off (which, with a high Rage, should not be a problem because you basically exude FUCK AROUND AND FIND OUT energy).

You fuck up bad and don't succeed on that buffer roll? Well yeah roll for Rage.

Of course as a ST you can regulate the likelihood of such incidents, but for a players it should be something that you're constantly at risk of unleashing even if you don't intend to.

>>96838878
Let them think you didn't hear so they keep repeating it and coming closer.

>>96838878
Rape them.

is it just me or are the french like really into CofD

>>96838941
Bro, if you are going to defend somebody, at least choose a better guy than fucking Caine. The only one worse to defend would be Lilith, let that sink in.

>>96838723
He is a Mask yeah. He doesn't necessarily age anymore, but his sudden aging is what helped his descent into the Slasher-life. There currently aren't any Kindred whatsoever in the city because it's overrun with Amaranthine Cats, which is also maddening for the Killer because he can *almost* sense something familiar, but he can't catch the damn cats. If he survives a few more sessions, Kindred from London will send a few exploratory scouts out and then I'll definitely be using something similar to your idea (an Ordo Dracul scout will eventually show up and try to catch as many cats as they can to tease out their delicious diablerist knowledge).

>>96838967
some books are only translated now, so they're talking about it

>>96838991
I'm not as much defending Caine as being annoyed at your little shit meme understanding zoomer sperg of the lore. You know that "Caine" is modelled after Biblical Caín, right? And

"HAHA BRO XD WHY ADAM AND EVE JUST DIDN'T APOLOGIZE AND SAVE HUMANITY?" Is 12 years old remark?

>>96838991
All Caine did was murder his bro and refuse to apologise after, which is reasonable as how the fuck would he know killing is bad nobody ever did it before. Like every splat commits 5 murders a night and doesn't apologise for it

>>96837674
>thinking on how to do another take on fae shenanigans
>veers into being Hunter meets Alice In Wonderland with normal humans ending up either stuck in or intentionally braving alien worlds after stumbling across rifts and gateways

>>96839095
>All Caine did was murder his bro and refuse to apologize after, which is reasonable as how the fuck would he know killing is bad nobody ever did it before.

God gave him like three more chances to repent after he shacked up with Lilith. More importantly, it's very easy to figure out killing is bad in-post if you have two brain cells to rub together. Your brother isn't around anymore, and he's never coming back. Your mother and father are heartbroken. Most children realize that death sucks when their first pet dies, and can realistically extrapolate that if death is bad, intentionally killing someone is extra bad.

He had four chances to say sorry, and every time he flipped God and his dead brother the bird.

>>96839174
You ever get a parent to try and admit they made a mistake? It's damn near impossible

>>96839119
>Hardcore hunter finds a way to interpret everything as evil
Kino?

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>>96839072
Anon, what are you talking about. Anon is talking about what Book of Nod says.

Hi it's me Caine just here to let you know that I did nothing wrong and ergo I will never apologise thanks for reading have a nice night

>>96839264
>hey daddy the entire sabbat wants to know your location

>>96839264
Give embrace, please.

>>96839264
You son of a bitch, you belong in hell for ruining the entier universe.

>>96839264
I will drink you

If Caine Ghoul'd someone would they be any better than a regular Ghoul? Maybe even more powerful than some of the lower generations?

>>96839602
If you take Jabal seriously instead of apocrypha, they maybe be third gen

>>96839602
caine had a ghoul
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Jabal
he was considered equal to the antes

>>96839602
they'd just be a normal Ghoul. Caine would have full control over what he 'makes' of somebody, all the Disciplines that lesser vampires need to study and develop are second nature to someone like Caine who learned them essentially as offshoot Mage sorcery from Lilith, the first Mage. The only reason a Ghoul made by Caine would turn out to be special is if he chooses for them to be special. Otherwise he can just turn you into a basic thrall.

>>96837990
Holy shit is that real

>>96839602
Considering his own ghoul is considered equal to Antediluvians, yep.
Plus dude has Caine's blood running around in his system. That stuff is the McGuffin of McGuffins in WoD.

>>96839695
Yeah it's my Ceilican girlfriend visiting my mom

>>96839616
>>96839618
>>96839751
I completely forgot Caine already had a ghoul

>>96839264
>Lilith meltdown in 3... 2... 1...

>>96837990
>Bridgeburner vs Gentry

if caine IS around, what's stopping him from siring more childer?

>>96839842
depression and trauma like from what we read about him he really liked enoch and co and blames himself for what happens nearly as much as the 3rd gens

>>96839842
Something something Fisherking something guilt something. We can never really be sure

How can I have sex with Caine?

>>96839842
He did so once and it turned into a complete disaster after a few centuries. It's much more interesting to him to just wander and watch what these thinblooded descendants do.

>>96839887
You don't

>>96839887
lilith go away

>>96839887
It's not that hard anon, he's depressed and lonely.

>>96839887
You couldn’t handle his dick. And even if you could, God hates when he gets laid, and will rip the soul out of your body.

>>96839887
Fuck yourself sevenfold to create equivalent consequences for the event, then force the universe to refresh and assume it really happened, then you can roll the universe back to that earlier state that will have been retroactively generated.

>>96839229
>hunter trying to come up with radical and increasingly nonsensical explanations why the benign creatures of whimsy are actually threats to humanity

>>96840146
A Hunter game styled after postal could be pretty good

>>96840146
Easy, Inquisitor with high True Faith

Does God actually exist in WoD?

>>96840198
>Those that refuse to allow themselves to feel anything in the face of innocent whimsy are equal and yet opposite to those who fall completely to fae madness. By their rigid adherence to personal dogma and code and by their stratification and codification of matters where they are totally inflexible, they find themselves being drawn deeper and deeper into their own failure. Rather than being tempted by excess or pageantry, they are dragged toward hypocrisy and unforgivable acts drawn to solidify them in their ways. And with each failure, they harden, until they are simply another stone knight mindlessly enacting inflexible order.

>>96840281
Yeah, he fucks with Caine on the regular. Depends what book you're reading though

>>96838033
Cissies are at the whims of the Mists. That's why Changeling never gets talked about...

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>Old Clan Tzimisce working with Anarchs to wipe out an invading Sabbat group
>relatively young, an actually ok person
So what's the general opinion on vampires that aren't psychopaths these days, ok or cringe? I feel playing vampires that are monsters on the inside is refreshing to other, more heroic RPGs at first, but with time when everyone starts to play a psychopath killer going against the grain with a genuinely good person that struggles with his humanity and the Beast, particularly when they're from a really infamous clan, makes a more interesting story.

>>96840479
Cringe. D&D is around the corner.

>>96840479
It's fine, fun even, when the facade becomes a little too obvious. But it's refreshing when done right. Too many people forget that there's more benefit to blending in and being a chameleon than there is standing out. Lord knows kindred have their own art and entertainment history but it's all very eclectic the most time. So like kindred have to do something besides plotting and surviving every night and that's where blending in and being a faceless person comes in handy.

>>96840479
It's fine.
Things do get retarded when you want to play a flawless character.

>>96840479
PCs not being shameless psychopaths is to be expected since you're playing a relatively young vampire and generally trying to retain your humanity. I think most setting vampires should just be psychos and untrustworthy. Even Nines wasn't really all there and Beckett was pretty much only in it for the intellectual curiosity, both of which are considered to be the nicer vampires in Bloodlines

>>96840281
OWoD? yes, 100%. Even the most pagan-oriented splat, Werewolf, agrees he most certainly exists in some capacity, though they usually put the Triat above him in their beliefs
NWoD? Hah no, it's about as explicit as it can get about that although there's some oddness with Longinus turning into a vampire by drinking Jesus's blood

>>96840479
i was about to ask which old clan tzimisce? but they all can be reasonably anti sabbat enough to work with outsiders against them

>>96840512
>Even Nines wasn't really all there
Nines was a mary sue.

>>96838151
>but whole games with multiple mummies lose their flair really quickly.
The main reason my GM cited as to why he didn't want to run it was that there were only six power sets. So with a big group all playing mummies, our characters would grow more and more similar.

>>96840610
He was a lot less of a psychopath than other vampires but he wasn't entirely a good guy either

>not even 25% of all players have played the level they used as showcase
vtmb2 is so dead on arrival isn't it?

>>96838033
I'm actually in a CtD chronicle right now. That being said, it's ST'd by the gay guy of our group.

>>96840281
In oWoD, God is God, but no one's heard from him in ages, even the angels.
In nWoD, God is an evil machine and nobody know what the fuck it's doing, including the robot angels it built.

CtD question, I remember there being a specific term for fae who remained in the mortal realm since the Sundering, but didn't choose the Changeling Way. They often took control of hidden Freeholds and were a danger to all who entered their realms. Remembered them being in the Antagonist section but guess I was wrong.

>>96840727
Lost Ones or True fae later mostly by nobles
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Ones

>>96840727
You're thinking of Lost Ones. They locked themselves inside those Freeholds, went insane from Bedlam, and basically have a Mage Marauder-like situation where they have all the Cantrip limiters off within the specific bounds of their territory but can't leave it ever due to the Banality outside.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Ones

>>96840727
Sluagh?

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>>96840740
>>96840741
That's exactly it, thanks friends.

>>96840528
>NWoD? Hah no, it's about as explicit as it can get about that although there's some oddness with Longinus turning into a vampire by drinking Jesus's blood
There is a scenario where the abrahamic god is just chilling in a city controlled by the Lancea

>changelings being discussed
>on Banality: The website

>>96840632
Give me an itemized list of all the bad or at least questionable things he does in the story. No, getting framed for killing Grout doesn't count.

How many spheres/dots would a spell/rote/wonder need to get a specific type of information from people?

Something like a bootleg Sense the Sin from Daimonion, for example, which is not full mind reading but can get significantly secret stuff.

>>96840901
Some anons used to be changelings themselves. A long time ago.
Sadly, they forgot.

>>96840901
What are you talking about man? We gotta get back to work, boss wants those quarterly financial reports by the end of the day.

>>96840479
Why not a middle point?
Even Tzimisce have their codes of hospitality and such.

What compromises has your vampire needed to concede to their Beast and to the realities of life in the World of Darkness? What values have they refused to give up on? What are they trying to hold on to, but struggling to?

>>96840677
>it's ST'd by the gay guy of our group
That accounts for him, what's wrong with the rest of the group?

>>96840912
>patronizes you
>still a vampire at the end of the day
>clearly a bogus ideology since he starts malding when you call him out
>consorts with communists
He's no Saint that's for sure, but I'll admit he's still one of the more moral Vampires in Bloodlines

>>96840940
Surprisingly, the only other stickout in our group is a woman who fell for the asexuality meme (she's married to a mutual friend of ours who isn't in the game but cameo'd as an NPC once or twice by ST's request), so she and gay tend to ramble about things like holo taco nail polish during pregame. The other members of the group are me and two other straight men - hell, one's an old Warhammer grognard-type.

What's the cutoff point where a given vampire goes from being afraid of werewolves to the other way around? 5th gen?

>>96840944
So, nothing.

>>96840992
7th dot disciplines is what garou supposedly can't counter at all if you go with the revised crossover rules so 6th gen although if there is no rank 6 around than 7th gens with 6th dot disciplines have the same effect

still not a good idea to go and mess with garou packs alone till you are a methuselah and at that point the vampire in question is very likely too paranoid to look for fights anyway

>>96840992
>he thinks it's a matter of raw power
Very low IQ.

>>96841060
He thinks gen is a DBZ power level instead of a power modifier and ceiling. Of course he's low IQ.

>>96841068
>He thinks gen is a DBZ power level
It is. Go dominate a lower gen.

>>96841069
Gee, how did the Third Gen merk the Second if anyone with more raw power is automatically unbeatable?

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>>96838366
>the demon translation guide
nta, but oh my lord lucifer dtf with (potentially) less jank? why has nobody told me about it?

>>96841074
>automatically unbeatable
You're arguing with your imagination. Rejoin us here in the real world.

>>96840992
Never. Leeches always live in fear of Gaia's warriors.

>>96840992
By being smarter than them (not hard). Why fight them yourself? Send in ghouls, manipulate hunters, get pentex to build a new mall right where they live. You have time, influence and powers that you can use. If you have to fight one then at least learn their weaknesses and how you can use your disciplines against them.

>>96841139
>Local furry talks big game until Big Daddy Vlad Tepes rolls up and slaughters an entire pack to get better pelts

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Any plans for Halloween?

>>96840992
My basic rule of thumb is
>Elder? The Garou are fucking cooked
>Anything less than elder? Vamps better bring their A-game, know the wolves' weaknesses, or just use connections and manipulations to make someone else do the fighting for them

>>96841519
I think even an Elder loses to Garou and even more a pack of Garou unless they're pretty high tier. 6-7 pips in a discipline is kind of cheat-mode but both of them aren't natty

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Kind of a strange question but what would be a good representation of the level of physical strength the system represents without any of the supernatural beings being taken into account.

>>96841578
Just take a look at the "feats of strength" chart but take into acount how Athletics is a fucking skill.

so vtmb2's plot is too stupid for me to continue playing is all v5 stuff like this? this fucking game has thousands of wrights below the city and hunters somehow clean that up in open street fights without it breaking the masquarade but if you kill two people on the street or you are seen in the police station you get a instant gameover for breaking the masquarade

>>96841746
a video game is never going to get things right, vtmb didn't either

>>96841760
vtmb may have been a buggy mess and had very shit combat, but it got a lot of other more important things right

>>96841578
>Any fancy-dancing pencil-necked geek who tells you that size and strength don't count is full of it.
Uh oh, dexfags, what do you say to this?

>>96841885
Being either super fast or super strong is idiot videogame logic that has poisoned everything else.

>Clan has animalism
Guess I'll never pick them.

>>96841976
What's wrong with it?

>>96841991
Not a munchkin pick.

>>96842018
Because everything good is a function of the first two dots and then you're out of things to buy?

>>96842018
But it's fun

>>96841514
Jerking off to horror movie porn parodies and slutty Halloween costume pics on Instagram. As is tradition.

>>96840528
>oWoD

That's a very generous interpretation of what's going on with the Patriarch. The less generous one being "humans do not and cannot tell what kind of spirit is talking to them, and this one is just yanking their chains to take advantage of faith powers".

So I watched "I am Frankelda" today. Kind of expected it'd be a Wraith-coded movie, turns out it's 100% Changeling the Dreaming coded.
I also watched Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein and now I want to play a monster-making Etherite (no, I don't want to play Promethean).

>>96841760
>(no, I don't want to play Promethean)
Nobody does. It's traditionally the "people love to read it, but not play it" splat.

>>96842301
didn't they even try to make a vampire/Promethean hybrid "clan" or something as a gateway drug towards Promethean and nobody played that either?

>>96841746
V5 actually tends to avoid the over the top, rookie ST shit that plagues VTMB2, but the two share the same root flaw. They're so obsessed with themes that they will pursue the "theme" at the expense of logic, going so far as to obliterate suspension of disbelief just to force whatever sophomoric vibe they're going for.

I printed off some VtH stuff. In B&W because I find the colour tinting on all the NWoD/CoD stuff to be obnoxious.
Is there a way to strip out the tint entirely?
Even in B&W, the colour tint turned the whole book greyscale and it was still a pain to read.

>>96841746
Bloodlines 2 feels like it was handed off to uninterested people to complete in the shortest time possible.

>>96842355
>I find the colour tinting on all the NWoD/CoD stuff to be obnoxious.
Today in "How to out yourself as a gigantic homosexual in one sentence"...

>>96842383
It’s messy to look at and makes the book cost 5 times as much to print.

>>96842301
In my case, I'm too invested in oWoD and Mage already covers Prometheans so I have no reason to try and adapt it.
If anything, I may just take a few ideas from Genius: the Transgression to make my Etherite based corpse stitcher.

>>96840479
In every WoD splat, the player-characters are unique special snowflakes who are expected to defy stereotypes and be fully-fledged people, while the majority of their splat are caricatures who behave like idiots.
In VtM, the player-characters are the extremely rare vampires that are actually capable of teamwork, cooperation and putting morality and common decency before sociopathic powermongering. The player-characters' ability to behave rationally and empathically is basically a superpower, in a setting full of heartless manipulators incapable of caring about anything but their immediate self-interest.

>>96841176
What generation of vampire would have such a well-established power base that they would be able to send in enough ghouls to slow werewolves down, manipulate enough hunters to actually threaten werewolves and have strong enough ties with Pentex that they would be able to convince Pentex to make eight or nine digit investments on their behalf?

>>96842527
>all those words just to admit you're a nogames

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>>96842294
>I also watched Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein
>>96842294
>I also watched Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein
Same. The fights were cool but I found it ironic book Victor is way more careless and irresponsible than movie Victor. Book Victor just books it and movie Victor KIND OF tried to teach at least a few more things to the monster. I also didn't lik them cutting Clerval and forcing Elizabeth as the monster's romantic interest because he can't let go of Shape of Water. The monster is very clearly vengeful in murdering Clerval, Elizabeth, and Frankenstein's little brother. I also didn't lik they shrugged off the Bride plotline with a few lines of dialogue

>I want to play a monster-making Etherite (no, I don't want to play Promethean).
Boo. I do but won't have time to play games for a while.

>>96836085
Eh, the eldest was a mage and the had two beasts due to the fucked up way he was embraced so idk he could have made the Baali

>>96836841
Anon, he built the first city and invented Taxes

>>96842531
...even LaCroix can do what you said. And he is a young Elder.
He has fully armed and equipped SWAT tier armed forces and later a bunch of Ventrue neonates as his guards.
https://youtu.be/WR7qoQvSoqs?t=28260

>>96842943
>even a camarilla prince can do what you say
So it takes being the de facto leader of an entire city to have the resources necessary to indirectly deal with a werewolf pack?

Let's not pretend that amassing an army of ghouls and hunters and neonates and bossing Pentex around is something that an average vampire can accomplish.

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>>96842961
LaCroix is at the bottom by the standards of Elders, Prince or not.
In fact, Princes are usually weaker than their own Elders unless we are talking about European Princes.

>>96840992
In a straight fight? Against a pack? You're fucked unless you're 6th gen or lower.
But, for heaven's sake. You're a vampire. Just stay IN the city. All of their magic gaian bullshit doesn't work as well within city limits. They have bigger fish to fry in the form of pentex too.

>>96843042
I just find it funny that you say "even LaCroix," when he's still a prince of the Camarilla and an elder of the Ventrue. As fun as it is to shit on LaCroix, he's still got more resources at his disposal than most vampires can dream of.
There's also the fact that Bloodlines bent the World of Darkness in order to justify hordes of foes for the player to fight, because it's a video game. Or are we supposed to really believe that an average city's sewers are teeming with vozhd?

>>96842609
The Tzimice origin story for the Baali is just Tzimice edgemasters seeing some fucked up edgy shit and trying to take credit for it several millennia after the fact.

>>96843102
Only old sewers, the sealed off part is crawling with them IIRC. I think some notes you find there make that clear but it's been a while since I last played it
Also why do people call them vozhd? Aren't those completely different than what Andrei created?

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Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

>>96843075
>Just stay IN the city. All of their magic gaian bullshit doesn't work as well within city limits.

> Glass Walker says no

There's this running joke in my group about that one time we lucked out on gauntlet rolls with a well statted theurge and directly crashed a vampire meeting of some whatever-gen (I think at least one was kinda lower-ish than usual) local big shots making some power move about some vamp bullshit.

Which is hilarious if you picture the visual of these fucking asshats being all self-important and conspiratory, then in the blink of an eye they're grey goo on the walls.

> VELCOME, MY BRETHEREN, TO OUR DARK COUNCIL! On this unholy night, ve vill...wait what's th...ACK

>>96837685
>>96837716
How would you improve it?

>>96838008
>you don't casually deal with Antedeluvians in VtM
That's because vampires are dead inside.

>>96838151
>Now if there were mummies working for different patrons with different webs of life,
That's sort of what Mummy: the Curse does.

>>96843174
I'm not a graphic designer. But If I had to spitball it, the concept of a thorn hedge is absolutely fine, but the thorns themselves should have better definition and contrast with the background so that you can actually perceive depth in the image (right now it all kinda melds into green scribbles).
The title has the same issue (the weird haze around it doesn't help), but having a good contrast on the illustration should help figure out how to make it pop more as well.

And for the love of god, completely redo the moth, it literally is just some stock image plopped straight onto the cover art. If you look at it, the thorn on which it is impaled (which is not even that clear to notice btw) goes right to left, but the moth itself is perfectly flat as if it was a scientific specimen. It makes no fucking sense.
Also, the moth has shit contrast with the rest of the art too.

>>96838210
I wonder if someone has made a sociological analysis of supernatural privilege. Imagine the Black Panthers taking down vampires...

>>96839064
>>96838967
There are translations? I thought this was an English-only game line.

>>96840146
This is just what happens when they discover the Dreaming.

>>96843281
You'd be surprised. The spics apparently loved Demon the Fallen and were put-off enough by nWod turning Demon into diet Matrix that they made a fansplat for actual-from-Hell demons.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/DemonTheRedemption

>>96843303
>Sponsoring local artists with mental health issues? Obviously trying to groom them for their court of magic elf slaves
>A magic wine cup that can only be seen and held by the fae? It's a vessel for secret war plans? To drink is to know, perhaps?
>Secret holes and roads where only the fae can go? It's just like the tunnels in 'nam!
>THAT GUY IS NOT REAL HE HAS HORNS AND A FUCKING FIVE PIECE WAISTCOAT I'MMAKILLIM

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What's the cutoff point where a given wraith goes from being afraid of magi to the other way around?

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>>96843102
>Or are we supposed to really believe that an average city's sewers are teeming with vozhd?
WoD canonically already has way more caves and deeper, darker underground areas.

>>96843307
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/DemonTheRedemption
Hmmm, someone should translate this into English then upload it to the Mega.

>>96843317
>>Sponsoring local artists with mental health issues? Obviously trying to groom them for their court of magic elf slaves
That sounds like the typical 4chud's opinion of Discord.

>>96843230
That sounds badass and now I'm hoping I can find an old black horror film about exactly that.

>>96843404
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampires_vs._the_Bronx

>>96841519
A Tremere with some tricks can shenanigan his way into being a skin dancer. Use the blood sorcery path that binds spirits & trade a bunch of fetish/talons & maybe see if they'll give over the skin willingly, in not, its gonna be a lot harder but possible. Congrats, now youre a full fledged werewolf & can learn gifts on top of your blood sorcery. I suggest Uktena as your targets since theyre more likely to do shady stuff like that.

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For a hypothetical World of Darkness Version 6(66), I'd make Demon the flagship line.

>>96843102
I mean the sewers were being flooded as part of a longer project by a tzimisce elder
>>96843114
The big things are vozhd. Explicitly.

>>96843726
Trying to redo older lines that failed to live up to their potential before you've even started squeezing out new editions of all your more popular games whose changes are just going to alienate their old players anyway?
Too risky for modern corpos.

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>>96843726
I'd make a new gameline about playing as reapers, imagine Geist: The Forsaken

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>>96843872
>>96843726
Then it seems that the winning move is to push Mummies to the forefront!

>>96843899
Would there be Valkyries?

>get a night job
>weather is cool but I live in the South so it’s not cold
>just a pair of thick jeans, a hoodie, and a vest is enough to stay warm
>suddenly realize every day I get closer and closer to becoming a Gangrel

>>96843899
>>96843961
Psychopomps representing various afterlifes, and it's also lowkey the alien invasion game. Every afterlife but yours is a predatory mimic sending agents to harvest feeder souls.

>>96844006
>lowkey the alien invasion game
Ah, Scientology finally gets some representation.

>>96844003
Bro that's the way it is in the north now too. I haven't worn a winter coat in years and I work outside during the winter.

How many dots in Mind do I need to make someone retarded? Like “omg I can’t see an apple when I close my eyes I have aphantasia” tier retarded.

>>96843961
Yeah, valkyries, anubises, classic skeletal grim reapers, and some of stuff I'm not thinking of would be your splats
>>96844006
Neat idea but if different kinds of psychopomp are in direct opposition to eachother what options would players have to bring variety to their parties?

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>>96844051
>some of stuff I'm not thinking of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinigami

>>96844051
The afterlife executives realize they're fakes and revealing eachother would be demonstrating how to dismantle themselves, so they want you in the field to be forming cliques and wrestling for narrative.

>>96844006
This would be an actually cool fansplat. I think the hardest part would be working out how conflicts arise between groups other than just "we want all the souls".

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>>96844134
Also, what incentive do they have for keeping anyone alive at all? What prevents them from attempting omnicide?

How do you make a campaign where the sabbat are the "good guys" without making the enemies also sabbat or baali?

>>96844226
Sabbat are trying to take out the objectively most evil people in the setting.

>>96844226
They already are? But I'd say make it more about the struggle against the antediluvians and their pawns than maiming, killing, and burning

>>96844226
Hunt methuselah like Menele or Mithras. They're clearly in cahoots with the antediluvians

>>96844171
Spitballing here, maybe it's a Wraith situation and there's some grand edict that says they can't do that. Those who break the law get hunted down. Could be some list of "proper" deaths, killing outside of that list is forbidden/frowned upon. Breaking the rules corrupts you like Euthanatoi who become crazy serial killers. Alternatively, maybe every faction wants to maintain a cold war scenario because otherwise they'd risk killing off all the humans and then nobody gets souls, parasites don't want to kill their hosts. Or they're even just straight up good guys like Mummy, they want to comfort and help humanity as a rule.

>>96844090
Another good suggestion

Since I've got a few bites, let me do my elevator pitch real quick. Whenever someone has a near death experience they become a psychopomp, with the ability to see the dead and death itself, new psychopomps are invited to join one of the ephemeral agencies, they don't have to join but refusing basically means you'll be closely monitored for the rest of your existence. Psychopomps aren't ghosts and they aren't undead, but they exist outside the cycle of life and death, with the potential to become immortal at the cost of their human nature, even guys like anubis and the OG grim reaper were humans once.
>>96844134
My idea was that psychopomps are essentially the three letter agencies of the afterlife, trafficking souls to their final destination is only one of their duties, they're also responsible for wrangling runaway spirits, persecuting necromancers, and making sure the living and the dead maintain a healthy minimum of contact.
>>96844171
It might be hard to hash out with the competing afterlives idea but my thinking was that psychopomps don't collect souls and keep them for themselves, their job is to maintain the natural order by keeping the living and the dead from interfering in eachother's business.

>>96844239
>>96844245
>>96844245
So focus on the antedeluvians as an ever present threat?
Either focus on the camarilla as their (un)]witting pawns or have a scenario about preventing gehenna?

>>96844276
Yeah killing the living, unless they're a necromancer and/or trying to become immortal, is a direct violation of a psychopomp's purpose

>>96844347
Correct. People don't like to cop to it but sabbat is just being an edgy chunni constantly. As such their chronicles are equally as edgy and feeding into the chunni thoughts.

>>96843334
Enthropy death 2

>Win jyhad by killing all the antes
>Neo Jyhad between 4th and 5th gen starts
>Repeat until only thinbloods remain
>Win Jyhad by killing your rebellious progeny
>Caine wakes up from the psychic shock and eats you

Being a vampire is suffering

>>96844402
Pretty much

>>96844304
I don't think the competing groups aspect works here, unless you can add some bigger ideological divide like Mage or Vampire. The obvious answer to "who should get what soul" is going to be "whatever culture the dead person belonged to", it's not enough to start arguments.

>>96844402
A win for every other splat

Anyone happen to have a PDF copy for Accursed Heirs: Dhampirs? the only 'free' one I can find is stuck on a site that paywalls you.

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>>96844402
Only if the Jyhad isn't some metaphysical conflict but rather just ancient as fuck vampire engaging in the same politicking as everyone else.

>>96841976
Based opinion.

>>96844402
Imagine this mindset. So defeatist. Nah bro. Im gonna diablerie my way up the food chain & eventually, im gonna drink Caine

>>96844304
>>96844171
You could have it where the Reapers are the agents of Charon who's duties are about maintaining the Shroud, & making sure the souls move to the Shadowlands. Like a mix between an ICE agent & Customs agent.

>>96842347
v5 featured a restored mithras soloing the entire local second inqusition that had enough firepower to wipe out the rest of london's kindred population solo in a cutscene and in another book it featured the players having to kill the risen of a cappadocian methuselah before she regains enought power to summon the horsemen of the apocalypse and yet another book tells the st to make methuselah non stated demigods with unresistable powers

v5 does not actually have less high end nonsense than vtm had pre time of judgment. You are just not allowed to play with the high end toys yourself anymore

>>96845304
I feel like V5 was done solely to appease the vocal minority of idiots who got mad about WoD not always being "grounded."

Why we got the absolutely half-baked shit that was H5.

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I don't really get this. It just reads to me as "just make shit up."

I was thinking of making a cat boy gangrel living in the zoo but I'm brainfogging right now for what the weakness actually means in practical terms.
>captcha is KSTOP

>>96845349
>Why we got the absolutely half-baked shit that was H5.
Can I get a qrd on ho bad it is?

>>96845349
>I feel like V5 was done solely to appease the vocal minority of idiots who got mad about WoD not always being "grounded."
it kinda is, larpers stereotypically didn't liked high end stuff because it was hard to represent and use in a larp

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>>96845304
you can sorta play with the high end toys if you disregard the "these are for NPCs only" sticker for the Elder and Methuselah Powers in the Gehenna War book. No 6+ discipline dots but your disciplines are augmented at least.

>>96845353
It basically boils down to the Gangrel temporarily gaining an appropriate flaw every time they frenzy, which may become permanent if the Storyteller believes it should. The description doesn't outright say this, but a lot of animal characteristics that can be acquired this way map very well onto various flaws. For example, a Gangrel might temporarily gain very bestial teeth after frenzying, which could be represented very well by Irretractable Fangs from Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand.
In this way, the Gangrel weakness snowballs over time. The more a Gangrel frenzies over the course of a chronicle, the more likely they are to build up permanent animal characters which can be quite debilitating, with physical ones making the Gangrel as much of a threat to the Masquerade as the Nosferatu.

>>96845304
speaking of do we have any other lore on the 4 horsemen? like in demon or something? couldn't find anything vtm related

>>96845534
Nothing in Demon. I don't think WoD ever themed anything after them explicitly.

>>96845355
Essentially it takes the superpowahs and overt schizophrenia out of playing an Imbued Hunter in exchange for turning you into a conspiracy-obsessed loon who eventually can't hold down a job anyway but without giving you the same higher-tier organization play shit that made Vigil cool. So it's neither individually high power like Reckoning (old) and is neither high power group management like the very popular Vigil line in Chronicles.
It's just very watered down

>>96843164
NEVER FEAR THE GLASS WALKERS ARE HERE
TO DEFEAT EVIL VAMPIRES AND MAKE THEM FEEL FEAR

>>96843364
I'd say that there must have had some wild extra amount of limestone, but Mokole can learn the Gift: Burrow and grow to vast, huge size like Ultraman, so...

>>96845353
A lot of the game is just "making shit up though" but like
>>96845465
says, you can get both a merit and a flaw at the same time for your character. Like if you look like you have claws maybe your appearance suffers but you can be more intimidating. It's not that different from the Malk clan curse where you're supposed to work with the DM so that you aren't just an unreliable schizophrenic dragging down the party ad infinitum

>>96845588
>high power group management like the very popular Vigil line in Chronicles.
Vigil isn't inherently high powered, the entire issue is that H5 essentially just has 1 level of play for hunters (street level), while Vigil has 3 (street level, compacts, conspiracies).
I imagine that's what you meant, but I wanted to give some elaboration for the anon you replied to so he doesn't think Vigil is ONLY high level.

>>96843364
>VtM underground cave systems is just the Nosferatu v Everyone else like Warhammer Underground being Dwarfs fighting off armies of Skaven and Greenskins
Kinda based, sucks for Nossies that they're basically victim-tier compared to some super garou, a cult, insane revenants, or ghosts

>>96845627
Well yes that is more in the style of what I meant thank you anon. H5 just isn't really built for anything beyond playing your individual Hunter cell but your Hunters themselves are borderline jobber-tier unless you make everyone a hedge wizard

So aside from Bloodlines, which WoD vidyas are worthwhile? I remenber hearing the woofs ones were kinda shit, what of Night Road, the various New York games and others?

>>96845559
huh weird given that we have several apocalypses for christian based splats and also weird that cults of the blood gods then just name drops them as the main motivation of the central antagonist

i guess we could say they are oblivion related given who is trying to summon them then maybe a group of once or neverborn

>>96845675
the second new york game is okay the first is a bit generic and the third is shit

night road is also okay, but it suffers from being the first choice of game game so they hadn't really figured out some stuff yet and it also has two very insufferable npcs
parlament of knives is nice and hungry names too

bloodhunt was underated but it was in a weird genre for the ip and the company stopped support for it

>>96845279
I want to avoid psychopomps being too similar too/derivative of wraith since that game already has its own reapers and ferrymen and I don't want them to be too closely associated to avoid stepping on any toes. The way I see it, psychopomps are inbetween life (mortals) and death (wraiths) they act as intermediaries between the two while not truly being either.

>>96845588
So you're basically trying to force you to play as a nobody hunter all the time? Kinda lame since being a part of bigger groups always gave you more options as to what you can use and hunt.

>>96845675
Earthblood (Woof game) is pretty bad yeah. Book of Hungry Names (also woofshit) I'd say is pretty good and possibly even their best CYOA, it's by the guy who wrote Night Road but I think it's better and less railroady overall. Night Road is good but it has a few eyebrow raisers, Parliament of Knives I've heard is also good. Haven't played the new york games or Swansong though I've heard they're rather decent. Ultimately a big issue with getting into the CYOA is it's basically an interactive book so no music to get engaged in.
>>96845696
Night Road might have some flaws between some rather annoying plot relevant NPCs and all, it is very interactive with your gear and stats. Out for Blood on the other hand is just a Hunter game wearing the skin of VtM

>>96845696
How's parliament better? Everything I saw pointed to Night Road and Parliament being the best. Greek one wasn't worth it from what I saw

>>96845753
Yeah, you're playing a Street level goon who CAN join one of the orgs but you'll never actually have the same tier of power and influence to chase the cool conspiracies as with Vigil without significant retooling. It has it's own appeal with being a very street-level focused game allowing more time to getting to know your target and shit, but it very much doesn't understand the appeal of old Reckoning and Vigil with the cool schizoid conspiracies

>>96845758
IMO Book of Hungry Names is their best, but it's also 2 million words with all the DLC and about 20ish hours. Even without the DLC it's like 1.6 mil and long

>>96845681
Demon in particular was incredibly rushed. Pretty sure it never even got to finish its already limited run before ToJ blew up the setting.
Tying the four horsemen in with Oblivion wouldn't be out of place, though. Pretty sure Days of Fire implies God made Oblivion, even.

>>96845758
Parliament is not trying to be a solo session of v5 and it's a better interactive novel with better characters and more routes

if you want to play v5 on your own night road ist better however because you get to design your character more and have more clans, but in terms of the story it's not even close

>>96845736
Honestly, you're not gonna avoid the overlap with other splats, because even like that, they're still similar to Slayers from DtF.

>>96845778
Yeah, shame woofs don't grab me.
>>96845797
Worth it to get lasombra too? I've been thinking about getting it since night road was fun if a little simple

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>>96845753
5th edition is focused on you striking out on your own. Hunter is no different.

>>96845785
>spoilers
That's what the demons want you to believe.

>>96844006
interesting

>>96845815
>Woofs don't grab me
I kind of thought the same but I did end up enjoying it a lot for free of course though I might consider picking up on sale but I do understand it's hard to get invested in

>>96845785
yeah it's unfinished in 3 ways: the lore wasn't done and proof read: human can and have used true names and can't use them at all to name one example. the rules weren't done: the corebook has references to rules and powers that don't exist (raising stats with faith for example blood buff style) and most of the player guide systems where meant to be in the corebook and even in the players guide they are unfinished... and it had two canceled books (one being unnamed even) despite being a limited run game line

most of it being because the lead writer was hospitalised and white wolf didn't care to give it's team extra time because they already set the timeline for the time of judgment event

>>96845845
>it had two canceled books
First time I've heard of that. Do we know what they were going to be about? For the named one, at least?

>>96845815
>Worth it to get lasombra too? I've been thinking about getting it since night road was fun if a little simple
the dlc adds alot in addition it also a extra romance route (or was it two?) with a quest that if you know how even allows you to learn Obtenebration/Oblivion out of clan and lasombra have to quests for themselves which change some of the endings but malkavian is the star of the show because it's pretty much ng+ with a new extra character a extra route, a major plot twist and two extra endings

>>96845859
the first one had something to do with lores, but i don't know if it was meant to be a rework or just more lores but i know that was also meant to feature larp rules for demon and the second is a total ???

>>96845696
What makes the third vn game shit? typical v5 inquisition shit or just thin story?

>>96845888
The metaplot they lined out in the storyteller's companion makes me think it was meant to go over the Greater Demons still stuck in the abyss, along with mechanics for how to summon/play them beyond the vague stats they gave in there.
Like, one of the last books they released was Houses of the Fallen, which details a bunch of histories involving Dukes and such, so I imagine that's what they were leading into.

>>96845892
the story just falls apart in what feels like the halfway point and then it just ends

the answer to the central mystery of "who is my sire" can also end up being "kek nobody knows" depending on choices you make at the very begining of the game and in general making a mystery where the player decides the answer at the start is just a fucking stupid idea

>>96845910
Damn shame, I was kind of interested for the ravnos and to see Julia some more

>>96845892
very rushed, the new characters are awful and not just in a moral way, bad art style changes, ravnos
>>96845910
i think he means the third new york game not the third games by choice game

>>96845926
>>96845910
so what i am hearing is that if you are making vtm interactive novels you should do it like valve and not make a third one

>>96845909
i also think that 6+ powers and such where planned for demon given how often they mentioned that the lores themselves aren't at full power again yet and the greater demon rules read like obvious placeholders like the first earthbound rules

>>96845941
Is it even the same writer?

>>96845971
I think they got different writers for the rest of the choice games. Just Hungry names and Night road have the same writer. The third vn should be the same dev but it's like four years after shadow came out.

>>96846006
I guess that checks out why you'd have a sequel with worse characters

>>96845222
Why stop there? Pull a Capadocious or Tremere and diablerize God

>>96845696
>night road is also okay, but it suffers from being the first choice of game game so they hadn't really figured out some stuff yet and it also has two very insufferable npcs
Who besides Julian?

>>96846100
Now we are talking. Overgrown Celestial needed to be reminded of his place—nothing but a snack.

>>96846157
nta but Donati, maybe? Her C-viper looking ass isn't really on par with Julian.

>>96846157
NTA but
>Julian
>SI Head Lady who corners you (I don't know her name)
>Gangrel prince dude is partially a bit annoying but not so much as Julian

Best path of enlightenment?

>>96846157
nta but i personally couldn't stand that one wanna be vampire hunter ghoul

>>96846185
Humanity
b nise

>>96846185
Path of the Devil

>>96846185
i am personally a bit fan of the Kings, Honorable Accord and such

especially the whole "Breaking your word" as a sin thing

>>96846185
Night when it's about abyss mysticism and not just being edgy cause ooh we're vamps. If I wanted to play knock off baali, I'd play a salubri

>>96846182
Donati she even has her own route and she has complete plot armor till the last scene in a route where you aren't on her side

what makes this worse is that in that final countdown scene you can oneshot her with many disciplines as long as you have them on 3 dots (max in the game) because she is just a independent ghoul
>>96846220
woudn't the road of the abyss then be more your thing?
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Road_of_the_Abyss

>>96838210
Waywards are great but Hermits aren't in it to win it. They aren't even in it at all and just want to be NEETs. Although how that works escapes me, because at the point of Imbuing you had to act to become Imbued and not passed over to be a Bystander.

>>96846243
>road of the abyss
That's it, thank you anon. I couldn't recall if there was a modern equivalent. I wish the abyss mysticism was more present in modern nights.

>>96846185
Feral Heart is pretty chill.

>>96846254
>. I couldn't recall if there was a modern equivalent.
nothing stopping you from using it! there are after all giovanni(and friends) on the road of bones in the final nights

>I wish the abyss mysticism was more present in modern nights.
same and i also wish the rituals where a bit better to offset the risks

>>96846243
>has her own right
>is an independent ghoul
Vampires really are their own worst enemy. Yeah she's pretty annoying but I think Night Road has maybe the weakest ending segments out of all of these games I've played, which I guess is a result of the game being more modular than all the other games too

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>>96840901
Yes, price stabilité is more important than childish delusions

>>96845769
But Vigil fully supports random shitter hunter play with more robust rules and better options than H5 has.

>>96846383
But is price stabilité more important than fucking faggots?

>>96840916
Mother fucker you hit me like a truck with that one
I want my dreams back, in full, with the real colours I used to feel from them, not the fake colours I give them now.

>>96846397
Yeah but some normies are afraid of
>thing but old
I've also heard H5 is very low on metaplots and lore raping compared to the other 5th editions