Slasher Edition>Previous Thread>>96858800>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>WoD5 Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionHow often do your chronicles have the perfect balance of gonzo and horror?
>>96870542>TQNot often enough. It's lamentable.>>96870548Combat and utility. It's a travesty
>>96870542All the time. I add the gonzo myself so it's always right where I want it
>>96870548I picked an owl once. My first mutation was an owl neck. Came in handy in a fight once.I also knew a guy who chose a horse cock for his gangrel.
>>96870593>I also knew a guy who chose a horse cock for his gangrel.>A Gangrel taking on the aspects of a non-predator animalI shiggy diggy
>>96870605You know that is a bit interesting. I wonder what gangrel think of prey animal traits vs predator animal traits. Do they think less of a dude with antlers than a dude with a wolf tail?Also... do you think there is an elder Gangrel out there trying to purposefully create neko catgirls/bunnygirls/foxgirls?
Make a lion gangrel who sires a bunch of female ghouls and childer for a make-shift harem while he sits back and is lazy.
>>96870628>Didn't rape-Embrace his Childer and dump in the middle of the woodsHe hasn't sired any REAL Gangrels.
>>96870615Bigger herbivores would probably be convenient for mass alongside antlers. Getting hippo teeth sounds fun
>>96870615>Do they think less of a dude with antlers than a dude with a wolf tail?If you start off showing prey animal traitsm, then yes, i'd imagine they'd look down o you. But if it's after frenzying so many times, those are the only traits left? You'd get the pass. You can only manifest so many claws and fangs after all.
>>96870628This pic is making me think it would be kind of cool to have a Gangrel and Toreador lovers with a Beauty & the Beast backstory
>>96870671Not that anon, but that's what I've been saying! Gangrel women were Embraced for Big Toreador Cock.
>>96870680Caine made Gangrel so Virstania could make Gargoyles.
>>96870799How often are new Gargoyles made via embrace rather than Tremere witchcraft? I know there was a third-party clanbook that mentioned it but I wonder if there's anything straight from the horse's mouth.
Give me your favorite black and white oWoD art, preferably leaning towards vampire and vampire adjacent stuff, I need it for a project I'm working on.
So, how rare are high humanity Elders?I assume 600+ year old Elders with the Humanity rating of 8-9 are basically unheard of?
>>96870815Gargoyles can embrace like nor al kindred in modern nights, & Tremere are banned from making any more of them since way back
>>96870869Not unheard off but hard. Last I checked, 500+ years old vampires start with -4 Humanity disadvantage.There are those like Stalest Coursain still has Humanity 6 despite being 2500+ years old. Mahatma is also another 2500+ years old vampire but has Humanity 9. Or Menele who has Humanity 10 at 3000+ years old.
What is God in your world? How can I reconcile God as an omniscient and omnipotent being with the dumb shit he canonically did? Personally I think of him as a super, duper powerful mage. Most of the inefficient stuff he does can be explained by trying to avoid paradox.
>>96870886>Or Menele who has Humanity 10 at 3000+ years old.Ah yes, the 10 Humanity guy who caused the eruption at Mt. Vesuvius just to try and kill a vampire he had a grudge against. He didn't even get her.
>>96870834>your favorite black and white oWoD artsmiles in Ron Spencer>vampire and vampire adjacent stuffcries in Ron Spencer
>>96870548They don't want to deal with the Batman jokes that will inevitably come
>>96870947It's just a preference, if you have art you like, please, post it! I can't promise that I could use it in what I'm working on, but I love seeing the old Soul WoD art anyway.
Qrd on what's the extent of "spirits", at least in the oWoD WtA sense, because our table is so fast and loose with them that I have never actually grasped what the fuck we are interacting with and it seems like everything is up for grabs as long as you can make some vague sort of argument for it, you just come up with a spirit that is loosely tied to what you want to accomplish and chiminage with it
>>96870542goddamn, lucita really wants to fit in with the kids
Things you can say to the Pack Priest but not to your girlfriend
>>96871010Yes, dear, I've drank from the cup all the boys dribbled into.
Been thinking of making a Tzim elder NPC whose whole thing is that he uses his high Vicissitude score (7 dots) to make and then sell specially designed bio-weaponry. Like little rat-grenades that explode into flaming acid that can either be thrown or controlled through animalism as an assassination tool. Or a living gun that has an infinite stockpile of bone-bullets, long as you give it blood. Just insane shit like that that the players can buy if they manage to gain his trust and have the resources to do so.Thoughts?
Wait, you're not telling me that the Tremere went through all that trouble and fucked their life up when they could have just... Ask nicely to be embraced? What a bunch of losers!
>>96870923There are beings out there with the power to create, these are shards of an unknowable, higher creative being. The thing called god made this world, and after a time it too shattered. These shards are the avatars of mages.>How can I reconcile God as an omniscient and omnipotent being with the dumb shit he canonically did?Just do the typical Christian cope.
>>96870938It's an objectively just and moral thing to kill vampires.
>>96871138>Bro, it's ok for me to kill shitloads of people in the process
>>96870923It never comes up in my games, but in my world of darkness, Azathoth made reality and the Abrahamic God is just Nyarlathotep in disguise.Why you may ask? I don't know, I just came up with it randomly and stuck with it. It is entirely 1000% headcanon tho, and there's no mention of it at all in anything I actually run.
I do not find werewolves sexy.
>>96870938he felt realllllly bad about it mkayalso probably why they retconned him as being a path loser
>>96871142Ignore the fur.
Mage the Awakening crash course: does a good one exist? I don't know anything about Cod verses Wod.
>>96871190Good for you, anon.
>>96870938You gotta understand; he's an extra special brujah. You know from carthage. He likes to be the world's biggest victim
>>96871089>Like little rat-grenades that explode into flaming acid that can either be thrown or controlled through animalism as an assassination toolOh that one sparks joy. Fun idea for you to get creative and for them to have nice toys, though it'd have to have something special so your players don't just buy out all the good stuff right away, like her requiring a boon in the form of a sidequest in addition to resources, or new weapons taking time to develop.>>96871010Are you sure that witchy Lilith thing involves pegging?
>>96870923God is God. He loves us but we're stupid. Adam & Eve took the hard road of knowing Good & Evil & therefore being subject to sin. Then Caine fucked everything up more by sacrificing Abel. When God made Adam he command all of Creation to bow to him. Lucifer refused as he thought himself superior. Lucifer challenged God but lost. Lucifer then tricked Eve to partake of the fruit. He used this to justify his case saying "well your precious Adam has rebelled against you too Father theyre just as unworthy!" Thus Humanity was cast out of the Garden to walk the harsh earth. The Earth is a test, to prove our devotion to God & to become spiritually pure enough to reenter Heaven. Earth is a spiritual prison designed to cleanse us & we keep reincarnating until we get it right. But in order for us to proof ourselves the world is harsh & unfair & full of temptations. God is mostly hands off in these matters as the whole point is to prove ourselves worthy, not to God, he knows we are worthy, but to show Lucifer that we do deserve to sit atop Creation.
>>96871119A real man takes what he wants
>>96871089Its limited by physics though, so blood cant change into bone. What you could do have it shoot crystallized blood shot. Or gastro intestinal flamethrowers. Have you ever played Splicers? Its all about this sort of thing
>>96870886Can't you raise humanity with Freebie Points in most versions or am I misremembering? The humanity penalty can be offset but well... There's a reason why only the monstrous vampires are still around.>>96870923I just handwave him as an arch mage because that's the less retarded option. Sure he made the Angels, Adam, Lilith and Eve but he wasn't the maker of humanity or the Cosmos.I understand that this contradicts a lot of lore, I don't care.
>>96871851Nice headcanon, try reading some books next.
>>96871920>Every dot in this Background gains a number of freebie points to use in character creation but also costs Humanity. This can be repurchased, but elders must spend five Freebies per extra point of Humanity.From the same page. Another thing to note is that every point of Age costs four freebies too.So yes, you can buy back the Humanity but it's costly.
>>96870923Whenever I run for my group, I run Werewolf the Apocalypse and God isn't all that relevant to that. A lot of Black Furies view God as an incarna that serves the Wyrm, there's an incarna of dogma that serves the Weaver that styles itself as God, there are some Garou that practise syncretism and view God as an interpretation of Gaia and there's even the possibility that God is a celestine separate from Gaia and the Triat that does its own thing. What God actually is hasn't become relevant at any point, so I haven't felt a need to settle on any single interpretation.>>96870974Everything has a spirit though in most cases, that spirit is dormant. Inert spirits can be awoken by the Garou, but for a spirit to become active on its own, there needs to be some sort of resonance or importance tied to that thing, a concept that any number of people associate with it, no matter how simple or complicated. In my opinion, fast and loose is honestly the best way to play it, so I'd say your group is doing good with the way that you're handling it. Overthinking spirits and the Umbra is the best way of killing their mystique and appeal.
>>96871190Just hasn't seen the right one yet but I think you're probably in the majority with that. Unfortunately, good werewolf designs only come from people drawing with one hand
This weekend my playgroup is gonna do a VTES Sabbat V5 precon champhionship. I don't like so much VTES V5 cards, but I always enjoy a precon championship!I chose Path of Cathari deck while the single thought in mind: I wanna play with hot vampires. The decks seems neat and with easy mechanics, so I think I can go for a nice and smooth game without thinking too much.
this is a question directed at oldfags, I know is dumb but, how does the sabbat manages to stand against the camarilla? as far as I understand it the camarilla is 7 clans, and the sabbat just 2, so how they have enough man power to carry their war against them?
>>96872004I wonder how you anons get your friends to be interested in Werewolf? I feel like it's extra hard to get interest compared to Mage and Vampire
>>96872063>Camarilla infighting>Sabbat shovelhead gangs are mass recruitment effort whereas the Camarilla requires strict rules for siring>Tzimisce and Lasombra were both pretty influential and are relatively cohesive compared to other clans
>>96872063Sabbat is 9 clans. The 2 Sabbat only clans, plus the 7 you'll find in the Camarilla. They also have some odd smaller clans hanging out with them too.
>>96872063Mass embraces, wave tactics, general terrorism, esoteric powers Cams lack.
>>96871954And this>>96871152>>96871920Isnt headcannon as well? See, God puts humans on earth & the Triat is a sort of Demiurge, its supposed to keep the place running without God's intervention, but Caine fucks that all up with Murder, etc. Adam & his bloodline were all Mages, & humanity can Awaken too, but theyre still within the world & will need to free themselves of it to rejoin god. Vampires, werewolves & all that fit in there too. Abel is the Wraith & will be there when Caine dies. Jesus was when God walked the earth & sacrificed himself as a man to make things easier for humanity to escape the world too. It all fits fine if you squint. Its not like canon WoD is even internally consistent
>>96872063Sabbat take in strays and cast offs. So it's more 2 clans+smatterings of the other eleven clans. Also why those two clans read like npc villains.
>>96871512Just read the PDF from the Mega or check the wiki.
>>96872063There's two Sabbat only clans, but every clan save Tremere (there are a handful that slipped through) has antitribu in the Sabbat. The Sabbat survive by strongarm tactics, & generally not caring for the rules of the Camarilla, which, while more monolithic, are slow to react & slower to fix it.
>>96871959>but it's costly.Anon, the background gives you 30 Freebies with the first dot. It has genuinely negative cost.
Are there spirits of memes?
>>96871808>it'd have to have something special so your players don't just buy out all the good stuff right awayYeah, probably will, maybe a sidequest to help him get certain rare materials for his experiments or whatever. It should be noted that interacting with him at all is immensely scary in of itself, since he's a sixth generation 700 year old elder. That being said, he could not give less of a shit about vampire politics, personal power, or the all popular Tzim pastime of torturing people, he just wants to fund his chimeric experiments in peace (and get some random arrogant elders killed by giving a neonate a super-weapon because he's bored and it was funny)
>>96872122>Sabbat only clansNot a thing. There are lasombra, tzimisce, kiasyd, etc. Antetribu in the camarilla as far back as 2nd edition.
>>96870628>sits back and is lazy.Male lions being lazy is a myth based on rookie scientific experiment mistakes.
>>96872143they'd be gafflings at mostin Apocalypse it's explained that most corporations don't have enough of an identity to form a real Corporate Father like Pentex does
>>96872162While he waits like a heavy in reserve until there's an equivalent giraffe hunt or invading rival males and he gets to die violently inside of 4 years.
>>96870834Joshua Gabriel Timbrook was the best, followed by Tim Bradstreet.
>>96872067Being the Storyteller takes enough energy and effort that if you're willing to do it for a group of friends, they're usually willing to play whatever you're willing to run, unless they all find the game so utterly repellent that they'd rather not play at all.The alternatives are to search for a group of strangers, online or offline, that is specifically playing that specific game, or to really, really, really beg your group's designated Storyteller to run the game that you want to play.
>>96872149True. I should have said traditional, not only
>>96871860and Tremere take what they can get after royally fucking up
>>96872228
>>96872258His stuff was very gay-looking but that fit Vampire perfectly.
>>96872143Most memes are a flash in that pan without much thought or attention. Like >>96872181 said, they're unlikely to be anything higher than gafflings and unless summoned by Garou, they're probably going to be limited to the Digital Web and not encountered in the general Penumbra.Though for the most enduring and impactful memes, I guess you could consider them jagglings, potentially with an incarna of memes to lord over them all, as memeshit and virality is such an important part of the internet these days. It's all up to your ST, in the end.
In Vampire the Requiem or anything else, is there are details about the goings on in Joliet, Illinois?Thinking about doing a game there.Or anything in VtM/OWoD too. Just looking for hooks.
>>96872236>for a group of friendsThis is the sticking point anon. 1 in 5 NOrmie men have zero friends in the current cultural dark age, let alone the average anon.
>>96872067Vampire, maybe, but Mages?"You're a 10-foot-500-pounds bundle of claws, fang and Rage and you're born to fuck small armies up all on your own" is a pitch much more effective than "You're a dude and you're fucking with concepts of reality to create magic but whenever you fuck with the universe the universe fucks back".>>96872004Yeah, but I dunno how I feel about "I'm fighting in a Blockbuster so I step sideways to ask the spirit of John McClane for a couple dots in Firearms". Sure, you might actually be asking to greater spirits via nesting hierarchies of which John McClane is only the point of contact, but still.
>>96872139Well of course, but if you're buying back humanity that's a big chunk of your freebies gone.At 4 dots you're actually only up 54 freebies if you do so. That's not a small amount of power given up to maintain humanity.
>>96872288>ask the spirit of John McClainBold idea but have you tried asking your gun itself? Surely you two are the best buddy cops WtA has ever seen at this point. It might just be taking John's form cause that's how you comprehend it the best
>>96870615Can Gangrel even get traits from prey animals? I thought they were limited to predators
>>96872287In which case, offer to run a game at your local game store if you have one, or offer to run one online.If all else fails, go to a Discord server with a group finder channel and trawl for a game that appeals to you. Yeah, you might have to play with people whose personalities and politics don't appeal to you, but at this point you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for a game. If you're already stooping that low, you can't afford to be picky.
>>96872268The little work he did on Werewolf was really unfitting when it breached outside of his familiar territory of human portraits.
>>96872299McClane was just an example, but I'm actually asking because I have a Glass Walker Lupus with Techgnosis (which allows to substitute all kinds of "civilized" rolls with Primal Urge) and I was wondering if having him binging the appropriate movies and TV shows (while doing the obligatory head tilt of course) to get the corresponding knowledge would have been feasible.So, marathon Die Hard for Firearms, Drive (ofc) or Baby Driver or F&F for Drive, Mr Robots for Computer, Bill Nye the Science Guy for Academics, Ally McBeal for Law, so on and so forth.Of course, in-universe that would most likely be just piggyback on that as a spiritual point of contact towards the spirits of major concepts related to each ability, but I just thougth it could be a neat idea.
>>96870834
>>96872350Has anybody ever used partial transformation ever?
>>96872356Sounds like a solid enough justification between the two of you. How young is this glass walker? Also definitely make the head tilt a positive reinforcer, it's too cute an image.
>>96872350>TFW no muscle-bound beast-woman to pin you down and demand your seed in relentless, rigorous, pelvis-obliterating intercourse
>>96871138Didn't forget about witches (they cursed me, I can feel it) and werewolves (gas prices went up, must be them)
>>96871010The excuse the Malkavian gave to the Sheriff
>>96872359Classic.
>>96872405"She attacked me in a dream."
>>96870834Guy Davis, but I will admit a lot of that is due to his non-WoD work
>>96872405It was real in my mind
>>96872350Talk for yourself, that she-wolf is hot as fuck mate.
>>96872405"He was invoking the Horsemen. What was I do to?"
>>96872405I heard what he was thinking and I agreed to help him with his suicide with some assistance.
>>96872405"You're not real, none of this is real. Get out of my room!"
>>96872280To my knowledge most VtR lore for Vampires is in Chicago. There's some stories about three cities (not a local so I can't really remember their names), but it's Gangrel-centric, focussing on their role as messengers and wildermen able to survive beyond the city limits. There was a series of 3 novels published set in Chicago focussing on a few Kindred therein, but I can't remember much about wider Illinois unfortunately. What sort of game are you thinking of running? Is there anything that's unique to Joliet?
>>96872405C'mon, it was only a fish, hardly a lethal weapon.
>>96872288>Yeah, but I dunno how I feel about "I'm fighting in a Blockbuster so I step sideways to ask the spirit of John McClane for a couple dots in Firearms".That's not how I'd personally handle it. During Blockbuster's peak in the late 90s and early 00s, an individual Blockbuster store would probably have next to no spiritual resonance. If it's an older branch that has been standing for a good decade or so, that serves as a cultural cornerstone for the local community, then maybe I'd have a grubby little movie gaffling that squats in its reflection in the Penumbra, that loans paltry talens to Garou who offer it chiminage. They better return them on time, though.But if your Storyteller wants to handle it differently, that's fine too. Everyone has their own take when it comes to the Umbra and arguing over what's the right or wrong way of handling a weird fucking spirit world just ends in a head ache.>>96872356On the other hand, that sounds great to me. No notes, go for it.
>>96872394>How young is this glass walker?Like four/five years?Crunch-wise there's definitely a bit of experience creep because I'm the noob in a well-established chronicle and the PC started the game by being immediately bumped to Fostern bordering on Adren, but we have summed it up as one of those cases (of which the books themselves make note) of the super-rare Lupus GWs who get pampered and groomed for high rank without really deserving it. Then of course he fucked up on the field and he had to repent by joining a pack outside the tribe's safety net with a whole bunch of spiritual "locks" (he has a lot of dots in his sheet becase because Gifts above rank one were forbidden to him for a while as he wouldn't be taught, so there nowhere else to spend XP).
>>96872405His hitbox turned hostile. I had to do it
>>96872405https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3yuto9xjEE
>>96872405"I swear officer his head was a spider! A spider!"
>>96872403I prefer a soft woman to welcome me into her chambers from which I exit only days later, on brink of death, covered in lipstick kisses
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Bennett the Mad?It is not a tale The Arcanum would tell you willingly.
>>96872244They may not be mages, but they are immortal near mages at the center of Kindred society
>>96872403>>96872597>Werewolf vs Changeling
>>96872350this ain't half bad though, the near forms are supposed to look uncanny but not outright supernatural looking
>>96872655We should get some for the other splats>Tfw you will never get stepped on by an autistic tremere girl who immediately goes to study her alchemy books after you bust
>>96872690>TFW when no deathlord GF to soulforge you into her personal toy
>>96872690>Tfw you will never have your cock made hypersensitive by a Lamassu, reaching heights of pleasure that nothing else could ever compare to>Tfw she'll never make you completely obsessed with her to the point you forget to eat>Tfw you'll never experience having some other qt3.14 flirt with you, only to discover she was really your Defiler gf testing your loyalty>If you refuse her advances, she lets you fuck her with that appearance. If you let yourself be seduced, she makes your night a living hell>Tfw you will never experience role-reversal mondays where she changes both your genders for fun
>>96872708>She always did say you were her toy.
>>96872405I am an agent of the Inner Circle and your interference with this investigation would threaten all Kindredkind.
>>96872804>The Inner Circle doesn't actually exist, it's a Malkavian delusion that the rest of the vampires fell for and it spiralled out of control
>>96872793>testing your loyaltyAnon, lets be honest. A defiler gf would be Encouraging you to fuck everything with a pulse to power her rituals and bring in more thralls.
>>96872690You'll never brave the underworld & barging against the ruler of the dead for her only to doubt, so close to the end of your journey back to the land of the living, only to lose her with a glance
>>96872708>>96872793>>96872883Very peak gentlemen
>>96871512You mean like Youtube videos and such? There's a channel The Botch Pit which has introduction videos for most CofD game lines.
>>96872690You'll never have a toreador gf who grows obsessed with your cock, writing poems about it at length (& girth) she would keep you constantly erect for hours just to stare at it admiring it's veins & pallette. She would only feel alive when riding it, sucking it, holding it like a teddy bear as she cuddles after. She would make a towering monument to your "monument", she would worship it like a shrine... and then she would kill you at the pique of her fervor so as to carry that beauty within her immortal memory.
>>96871808>Are you sure that witchy Lilith thing involves pegging?Yes.
>>96872413>>96872426>>96872428>>96872431>>96872434>>96872444>>96872579>>96872587>>96872594>>96872804Why you no longer help with the Toreador's art project
>>96872977Wait, that was supposed to be art?
>>96872977
>>96872977They insulted my furniture (it started crying)
>>96872977It was around the time that I fell for the ol' living statue sculpture is actually a vicissitude fused man with metal a third time, that I realized I seem to attract Volgirre. Having seen more 'normal' Toreador, I find them to be posers they deride.
>>96872977"This red paint smells awfully... Coppery."
>>96872977Kidneycore is NOT an aesthetic!
>>96873001LOL
>>96872359Me and the boys every sesh
>>96872977I dont get it
>>96872977It's about mortality, right?
>>96872977My anus is sore.
>>96872977He dumped meFOR A LUPINE
>>96872587>The elder using dementation
>>96872977If a chomo masturbates to it, then per the standards of the US government it is considered child pornography and spooks were coming to blackmail you if I didn't destroy it. Boon me.
WtA: Heart Of The Forest is free for anyone with Amazon Prime through Prime Gaming right now. No idea if it's any good.
>playing through Book of Hungry Names>romance bugs out>don't get to shagThis game is surprisingly buggy
>>96873337Saw that it's short but apparently it's quite a good VN though WoD is struggling on content as it is so maybe that skews the numbers
>>96873356>He thinks it's a bugAnon...that's a sign
>>96870409chat is this true?
>>96873374Well I know some moments are like that allegedly every character has at least one scene from the way all the threads talk about it but my god does the way you trigger them work weirdly. I kind of edited the save a bit to max out the relationship before trying but it seems you just can't trigger it some times, would have to double check
>>96871190Hunter or Technocrat, call it.
>>96873483 Pentex exec
>>96873495They love raping woofs though
>>96873504it's purely business
>>96873504And some of them are rapist woofs too
>>96873495Sounds like a Nephandi that needs an interdepartmental HR meeting with Dancing department.
Are each splat better and more enjoyable when seeing as individual worlds in their own instead of crossovers?
>>96873528They love pimping out woofs?
>>96873547It depends on what you find interesting between the splats. Wholesale tends to be terrible however cause it can lead to pissing contests, so retooling becomes necessary which gets tiring.
>>96873552The woofs pimp themselves out (sign here to exempt Pentex from any injuries or death caused by werewolf sex)
>>96873597>Wholesale tends to be terrible however cause it can lead to pissing contestsKill the retarded whiteroomers and you'll find this is no longer the case.
>>96873547>>96873597Pretty much that yeah, the splatbooks and the supplements by themselves are pretty good and usually provide NPC/antagonist characters from a different splat that doesn't need to be retooled, but if you want to introduce an entire Vampire/Werewolf/Mage subplot with their sourcebooks you run into the issue that the splats aren't made equal and they're all pretty bullshit in some way
>>96873608at least 50% of anons would sign even if it's BSD
>>96872149I recall an official White Wolf book stressing there was no such thing as Camarilla Tzimisce, at best Tzimisce who might temporarily work with the Camarilla if it suited their interest, and even those were extremely rare.
>>96873655>especially ifftfy
>>96873552It's a rare exotic and you get to act out dominance over an expression of primal power. You know damn well people are already in this world of normal renting sedated zoo hole off of Tiger King inside of Best Westerns.
>>96873665So antitribu are just independent or are they witch hunted
>>96873685For Tzimisce? Yes. They tend to not really care unless it bothers them specifically or it's some kinda generational grudge they learned. Cammies'll work with 'em cause it's better to ally with a Tzimisce, both to keep track and because they're uniquely suited to them, than to let them go as they set up a domain where ever they feel like it.
>>96873665>I recall an official White Wolf book stressing there was no such thing as Camarilla TzimisceSo no valid sources then?I'm only semi-joking too, post-revised whitewolf was known for their consistency. The gehenna book stressed to no end that Set was unarguable, irrecoverably, 110% dead and the clan were delusional for thinking he was ever coming back, and then 140 pages later had him as the main antagonist of a gehenna scenario.Even pre-gehenna, the original guide to the sabbat came 6 months after Rein-hagen said the sabbat would never, Ever be a playable character faction.
>>96873770>post-revised whitewolf was known for their consistency*Wasn't known
>>96873685Technically antitribu just means anyone going against their clan's "official" allegiance, hence why the small amount of Camarilla Lasombra are called Lasombra Antitribu. But I can't recall a time I've seen it used outside of the Camarilla-Sabbat dichotomy. Nobody calls an anarch Toreador a member of the Toreador Antitribu, for example. If you're asking about the Tzimisce specifically, there's a lot of disloyal or de facto independent Tzimisce, there's even still some de jure independent Tzimisce in the boonies of Europe. I'd go so far as to accuse many Tzimisce of treating the Sabbat like a giant welfare state that subsidizes their unlifestyle. There are truly committed members, don't get me wrong, but a decent chunk of the Tzis are independent in mindset, even if they're technically in the Sabbat. Being perfectly frank anons tend to give the idea of Camarilla aligned or adjacent Tzimisce too much credit. The Ventrue and Tremere have old grudges there that don't just go away, and the Tzimisce have a very bad reputation among the Camarilla. Turning the homeless into freakish monsters, the whole chair thing, all of this is strongly opposed to the Camarilla's veneer of humanity. Their reputation for cruelty is legendary, and the Camarilla likes to keep that stuff behind closed doors. They have a penchant for being loose with the Masquerade. And it's not like Tzimisce are inherently any more powerful than any other clan, in fact RAW vicissitude is rather underwhelming, killing them is never out of the question. But many think vic is neat while also not wanting to play as the Sabbat, so they handwave the shit out of it.
>>96873655>>96873667Funny you should mention that, they are most of our “totally willing”* workers*Granted, in the BSD’s case they are usually willing since a surprising large amount of metis have nymphomania as their derangement
>>96873770Guide to the Camarilla (revised), Page 53. Even the less than half dozen that work with the Camarilla leave after they've completed their objective. Do you have any sources for genuine, card-carrying Camarilla Tzimisce?
>>96873820Wait is that factual?
Vampire loreCHADs I beseech thee! Come to mine aid, and thou shalt hath thine (You)!I already know the basics and am seeking more. Give me the deep dive on Obtenebration, the Abyss and the Abyss mystics, and Lasombra lore as a whole. What exactly is the abyss, what is the nature of obtenebration, and is there a greater entity at work in the shadows like how Vicissitude is tied to an eldritch abomination and has utterly screwed the clan? Is the Abyss canonically connected to an opposing force to creation and life, is it Hades or Hell, or is it something else entirely? How does the Lasombra interact with Wraith canon and are the two lores compatible? Traditionally, the Lasombra were Sabbat, but what lore is there for the Lasombra who sided with the Camarilla? Antitribu? Also, how badly did V5 screw the lore?I'm most familiar with V20, so recommend or explain any differences with earlier lore, if you'd like. Gimme whatcha got.
>>96873547Single line chronicles are the platonic ideal and what each individual line has been designed around.Two line chronicles work fantastically if one line is used as the bulk and the second line is used as a spice, focusing on the spaces where the two lines have been written to overlap.Kitchen sink chronicles are garbage. The World of Darkness collapses under its own weight if you try to get every line to acknowledge every other line at the same time. They're just not written for that.
>>96873835Anon's entire post flew right over your head, didn't it?
>>96873919I think you can have multiple splats as long as the main focus isn't actually on the splat
>>96873820>they are most of our “totally willing”* workersWait? We're in the pimp game? Damn, why am I stuck shoveling paperwork instead of doing something cool
>>96873655Just think about itAll BSD kinfolk women are menherasNo wonder they're breeding faster than regular woofs, IMAGINE the sex
>>96873820>spoilerI can't imagine that's a very chill experience seeing as how these customers are likely going to be going insane as it happens
>>96874033>BSD and BSD kinfolk are all just schizophreniamaxxersI feel like there's been more than one cult in America like that
>>96873874>Vicissitude is tied to the color from outer spaceDon't believe that so strongly.>What is the AbyssIf we go cosmologically, and are purists, it's where the Eolhim from Demon the Fallen are imprisoned. It's kind of under or to the side of Wraith Oblivion, iirc, with the notion that its not known about outside of demons, abyss mystics, and maybe some echelons of wraith society. Really outside of demons, the abyss is just a Thing that is a plane of darkness. There's a place with the same name in WtA and Umbral space but it's closer to say a limbo than the Abyss Obtenebration pulls from. >greater entityIt is, apparently, quasi-sentient on its own. No one is really sure what's down there and why it's quasi-sentient. One of the gehenna scenarios has Lasombra, the big one, mimic this in their return to the world by being a vast shroud of darkness that shrouds the earth, blotting out the sun, and sucks the souls out of everyone in its shadow. Supposedly, it's gehenna after all. If it's some kind of past-universe shell or left over, it's only teased cause they never really developed it.>Interact with Wraith canonThey don't. Lasombra are distinctly absent from Wraith unless you wanna get involved with what happened to Lasombra post-eating and even that's sketchy since abyss mysticism never got the love it deserved.>v5The Abyss, capital A, is gone. It's quite literchally Wraith's Oblivion now. I am fivever frustrated about this combination despite the fun Grandmother lurking in the background could impart. Outside of just the lack of Wratih info for v5, which is for the better, there's no more Abyss.>miscWhile kind of an odd duck to pull in, I am of the mind that the VtR Striges could make for interesting inhabitants of the Abyss if you wanted to build on what lore there is. Go with the Rome Requiem stuff over 2e Striges. I am also partial to the idea that Grandmother, the Wratih entity, has a connection to the abyss but its thin and not supported.
>>96873929Possibly. If the point is "white wolf contradicted themselves all the time", I'm waiting for the contradiction to the statement I posted. I know they routinely contradicted themselves, but I have never seen any source claiming there's more than a handful of Tzimisce in the camarilla at one time. This might be a rare case where they didn't contradict themselves. If the point is "WW contradicts themselves all the time, so it doesn't matter what they say", that's an entirely valid philosophy to have tableside. But in a lore discussion we need to work in defaults and official statements, because otherwise we could be talking about entirely different realities. Take a look at the /schreck/ thread for evidence. My table's setting is so homebrewed you could make the argument we shouldn't even call it WoD anymore, but I don't enter lore discussions from the perspective that my table's WoD is the official setting.
>>96873919>The World of Darkness collapses under its own weight if you try to get every line to acknowledge every other line at the same time. They're just not written for that.Understandable. But do they work as "existing together", at least?Maybe the backbone of the chronicle is woofs and vampires and you actually flesh out all the tribes and clans and keep the lore tight, but is anything going to suffer if you happen to cross some dude who seems peculiarly unfazed by your shit and that one time you try to catch him he collapses an abandoned warehouse over your head? Or a bar of weird lythe sunburnt twinks who seems to get really excited and almost high when you go in for a drink and your Rage seems like it's not subsiding as it maybe should.You know, splat cameos.I'm a turbonormie and I guess I kinda like that stuff.
>>96874180>I'm a turbonormie and I guess I kinda like that stuff.Dude, nobody's in the wrong if they want something called WORLD of Darkness to feel like a world. I want that. A setting that just has vampires as the only supernatural creature in it honestly undermines my suspension of disbelief more than anything else. The issue is that what official material there is does not satisfy that urge to most people's satisfaction. Different splats can have very different tones, themes, feelings. Even those that share setting fixtures (werewolf and mage concerning The Umbra) can have deeply different takes on that same thing, and none of this is even getting into the mechanical issues of running such a game. Every oWoD splat was not really designed with the others in mind, then the writers would turn around and say it's all the same setting despite having made no effort to actually integrate the two mechanically. Then they'd change their mind again. Rather than keep the lore tight, the only way to really pull off an "everyone is here" story is to pick one splat, make them primary, and keep the lore stupid nebulous on everything else. If you're playing Vampire, Pentex isn't the end all be all final boss of a war for the fate of life itself. It's just another evil conglomerate, just this time they use dark magic to "enhance" their products to spread suffering. That kind of route.
On the subject of crossing splats: has anybody here ever run Midnight Circus?
What sphere would manipulation of sound/music be?
>>96874180Like the other guy says, cameos are more than fine, they can even enhance a chronicle. It only becomes an issue if the guest line starts throwing up exposition everywhere and suddenly your pack of werewolves have to start worrying about consensual reality or antediluvian vampires.For example, let's say that the Followers of Set are pretty influential in a particular city, but something's hunting them. Every other week, another Setite is torn to shreds. The players can investigate this hook and discover that the culprit is none other than a werewolf with an ancestral grudge against Set himself and all who serve him. The players earn the favour of the Setites by ridding them of this thread, or they could try to form a temporary alliance with the lupine to rid themselves of the competition that the Setites represent. If they go with the latter, with its work complete, the werewolf moves on, to continue its hunt for Setites in another city.The werewolf doesn't even need to call itself a Silent Strider, let alone reference Gaia and the Triat and the Apocalypse. Doing so would just distract the players from the focus of the chronicle, which is the vampires.
>>96874127There's an example NPC from "The Anarch Cookbook" anarch supplement that was a camarilla tzimisce antitribu that had recently converted to the anarchs after her boyfriend dumped her.
>>96874310Forces. Its all percussion/wind/vibration
>>96874310Or mind if you want to pump it directly into the brain. However, in either case the mage in question will need to know music theory, composition and acoustics, it's only actual playing of the instruments they can sidestep (but synths already do that pretty much... thanks, Technocracy).
Even the books recommend players make a couple backup characters when playing a sabbat chronicle, but idk if I should use these extras as other members of the pack or have the replacements be the next wave of shovelheads or something like that
>>96873337The "violent, radical" option you get to take in that game is *drum roll* disabling heavy machinery when no one is around. This lib-cuck bullshit of kowtowing to the actual definition of eco-terrorism spits in the face of what WtA is about. Also if you woof out at the end and attack the game is skewed towards killing you. I will say, out of all of the WtA offerings, this comes to closest to portraying a cool and spiritual feeling to the Garou, though I do really like the Pantheon in Book of Hungry Names.
>>96874519They could also just be other Sabbat members coming in as backup for some reason. Maybe they're the only survivors of another pack, maybe whatever your players are doing is important enough to the Bishop that he sent you reinforcement.
>>96873420Garou hunt in packs of at least five. While your Tremmy elder is doing all that his face is being mauled off by Timmy "Was-Born-Yesterday".
>>96873547Werewolf the Apocalypse is the only good that works well with cross-splatting as the game already operates as a monster mash. Garou are equipped to go everywhere and their culture demands they police everything. It helps they can lose an arm and come away fine, too. However, you can't have an amazing chronicle for the other splat while running Werewolf, it's just nice to be tourists.
>>96874519Have them die in the initial assault. Or if they survived, ship 'em off to some other city under the auspice of clan training. Maybe your sabbat cell in the city is particularly odd and they expect your grave mates, fellow shovelheads, to stick together cause they're geographically cut off.
>>96874570>there is no game where you can draw forth the spirit of a klaive and cut through a demonic Bagger 288 with a sword the size of a skyscraperShame.
>>96874180>But do they work as "existing together", at least?If you use the watered down versions of each splat they might. They can have basically the same mechanics but you need to alter the details a bit to avoid most of the major clashes.
>>96874631Nigga that's just Exalted for fuck sake.
awakening >>> ascensionvigil>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reckoning>>> 2emasqurade>requiemapocalypse = forsaken (i do not apocalypse lore at all)
>>96874665isn't that also scion?
>>96870542Zamn, Lasombra women look like THAT?
>>96874692Also an option.
>>96874682>awakening >>> ascensionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
>>96874731That's a Thallain. You need to get your greymayre checked.
>>96874682
>>96874752>greymayreBrony?
>>96874619>Garou are equipped to go everywhere and their culture demands they police everything. It helps they can lose an arm and come away fine, too.These are some of the reasons I was able to convince my ST to try Changing Breeds; even though WtA is not his favorite line.
>>96873857Not specifically like that, but a lot of books concerning the forces of the Wyrm say the BSD are a bunch of degenerates who frequently have orgies to pump out more metis
>>96874383This is a pretty smart way to go about it, unless your players really care about it, none of the games that have cross-splat stuff ever actually specify what type of powers they're using or what affiliation the monster is, its just>Werewolf>Risen>Wraithetc.Outside of Hunter where a plot point like that can be the central story there's no reason to go too heavy on the details, like Hunters probably will want to know it's a group of Tremere they're hunting down or something like that and expect blood magic but like if a Gangrel shows up randomly while you're hunting wolves it can just be a vampire
>>96874025Don't worry anon, we have a employee's discount for all Pentex subsidiaries' workers (your Magadon insurance does not cover injuries from utilizing our services, though)
>>96874682Forsaken lore seems much more cucked than Apocalypse lore ngl. I think ecoterrorism > spirit cops any day of the week
>>96874823Based BSD engaging in all matters of dogfucking
>>96874771It's derived from the same root as grimoire (Fr. for grammar). So, no, no horses. Just magic lore.
>>96874904I read it as "Paradox subsidiaries" first.A second later, I realized it's technically not a mistake.
>>96874907accurate. The Forsaken basically exist only to suffer, serving an evil and insane moon goddess who murdered their father while having to cuck themselves out to even more evil spirits who only know how to steal and murder to gain power, while also having to fight their racially pure kin who want revenge for the whole wolfdaddy-murder thing, and to top it all off the Forsaken can't even fuck each other or else the women get womb-bursted by horrific super spirit-monsters.There is literally no reason to ever play Forsaken. It's a game about being a pathetic useless piece of shit that can't do anything right and has to adhere to pozzed bullshit propaganda about how moon mommy is totally their friend (she'll sell their asses out the first chance the bitch gets)
>>96874968>t. anon describes ApocalypseYour shift ain't over. I want those reports on my desk by midnight
>>96874981wrong, there is no wolfdaddy or moon mommy in Apocalypse
Can somebody explain woof the forsaken? I remember I played it ages ago but I do not remember the metaplot at all
>>96875021see >>96868878. CofD didn't really have metaplot
>>96875021There is basically big daddy wolf (Fenrir or something) and he got old so the Werewolves decided to give him an honor killing before he became too incompetent to work policing spirits from fucking with the morties, but this basically fucked up the world quite a lot since no one else could do it so a bunch of disgruntled wolves said they would give penance for killing Big Daddy by doing his job of being a spirit cop with the help of the Moon spirit, and they got less of a fucked up curse than the rest of the ones that didn't who are called the pure. You play the ones that are spirit cops, it's pretty much W5 levels of "Congrats heroes, you fucked up and broke everything and it's over but at least you can make the end come slower" but there's like no winning. Thankfully, as should be familiar to all the fans of werewolf, you still play the same group of self-defeating furries with anger issues and le pack dynamics
>>96875021>Back before recorded history, Wolfdaddy existed>Wolfdaddy was so strong and sexy that Moon Mommy came down to have interspecies intercourse with him because the writers are brave independent women who totally aren't forcing their fetish into the game>they begat the first werewolves, who ruled over all the spirits of the unified world>Then Wolfdaddy grew old and weak, so Moon Mommy didn't want him anymore and killed him by setting his own children upon him to tear him limb from limb>this was, understandably, upsetting to some of the children, who proceeded to tell Moon Mommy she's a traitorous whore and try to murder the werewolves who killed Wolfdaddy>the war shattered both sides of the conflict and reduced the dominant werewolves to scavengers and bottom feeders who need to raise spirit totems to survive now>spirits, without werewolves to rule over them, became powerful and dangerous and the Forsaken who killed Wolfdaddy took it upon themselves to kill the bad spirits, becoming spirit cops>The ones who wanted revenge for Wolfdaddy became the Pure, refusing to sully their bloodlines.>Over time the Pure and the Forsaken had wars for supremacy, until the modern day where the Forsaken have grown weaker than ever before and the Pure are now stronger than ever before>Play as Forsaken who have to balance playing spirit cop with fighting their own inbred skinhead Nazi cousins>The world is most likely doomed btw
Given the effects of the Moon Landing in 1969, what would be the effect of footage leaking of the Technocracy getting their asses kicked on Mars?https://youtu.be/2d8SJ8MaEKQ
>>96875071>inbred skinhead Nazi cousinsWell first off, this is wrong. The Pure care about bloodlines yes, but all of them are very happy to steal random wolfblooded away from Forsaken and induct them into the family. Second none of them are Nazis or skinheads.
>>96874904>DiscountsI know, it's great. It's good to have cheap and reliable fuel. Last time I had to fill up my tank at some shitty gas station in the middle of nowhere my car almost broke down! Never switching off Endron fuel again. Honestly, I would probably go and see what all the fuss is about but there's this girl cute working with an EEPS team.
>>96875142>The Pure care about bloodlines yes, but all of them are very happy to steal random wolfblooded away from Forsaken and induct them into the family. "Happy" meaning they'll torture and indoctrinate them and treat them as second-class citizens in the pack and never fully trust them.>Second none of them are Nazis or skinheads.Dude, if you haven't bothered to read the actual game book there's no need to post your uneducated opinion in the first place.
>>96875021Closest actual enemies you fight are Maeljin, which are just bid bad evil spirits. Possibly associated with a sin and/or evil deity
>>96870834>Error: You must wait 3 minutes 58 seconds before posting a duplicate reply.What the fuck is this bullshit?
>>96875153>EEPSWhy friend could you do me a solid before my supervisor comes back. I seem to have forgotten what that is, can you help jog my memory?
>YWN explore the Umbra with your big titty Etherite gfTechnocracy, take me now.
>Be stable enough Malkavian>Embrace a cute girl to have my own loyal immortal lover>She ends up a GnawedYare yare daze...
>>96874968Ok lol so they're basically the Wolfen from Confrontation.What's with the moon being such a turbocunt to blindly-faithful wolfman children?
>>96875267>Trying for a loverBlood bond isn't real love. Neither is the sire-childe bond
>>96875174Nah, if there's one thing WtF has, it's an endless laundry list of enemies to fight. Pure, Balehounds, spirits, Ridden, Idigam, Maeltinet, Geryo and that's without considering humans and other splats.
>>96874383>The werewolf doesn't even need to call itself a Silent Strider, let alone reference Gaia and the Triat and the Apocalypse.But what if they ask?
So what is the purpose of Chronicles of Darkness if it's generally>Street level>No metaplot>Doomershit except for Geist
>>96874981I think he's Pureposting, actually. I can understand the confusion though, since Apocalypse has the weird clash of "everything sucks you guys have literally never had a W, but keep fighting two more weeks trust the plan". >>96875021>>96875044 has the right of it, it's the QRD without any real bias, more or less told how the book itself would tell you. It's also worth noting that Forsaken has an entire book called Blasphemies which introduces alternate origin myths if you don't like the default. You can introduce them as extant heretical (but potentially true) myths or use them as a basis for entirely different worldbuilding that's still compatible with the mechanics of Forsaken.If I may, here's why Forsaken is fun to play. Spirit Cop is a gross oversimplification. You are a creature of two worlds, not fully spirit, not fully flesh. Something in-between. Even if you don't buy into the sacred duty part, practical necessity will force you to fight the various horrors that want you dead. The curse aspects of lycanthropy are on full display, any game of significant length will result in at least one moment where the PCs feel like out-of-control horror movie monsters. Teamwork plays a major role, and there's surprising amounts of build diversity. You can be your party's support, "Werewolf Bard" is a build, where you spend the first rounds of combat debuffing enemies and buffing allies with full on howl at the moon shit. The enemy variety is immaculate. Other werewolves, spirits, possessed people, people who have been possessed long enough to fully fuse with the spirit possessing them, ancient horrors from the time before recorded history, the Moon Presence from Bloodborne, the list goes on. If you like MotW games like Hunter, you'll love Forsaken. You've got an area to defend from the entire kitchen sink of bad shit. You can lean more into introspection/struggling with your condition, you can go balls to the wall violence, it's remarkably flexible.
What's a good-enough equivalent to 5e tools for WoD? Ideally, one for oWoD and one for nWoD would be great as we play alternate splats from both.
>>96875329>Do you want WoD with more coherent crunch and less fluff?
>>96875325In this scenario, the players are vampires and uneasy allies. Why would a werewolf tell them all about its holy war to save the planet from a death god and its evil corporate minions?
>>96875329What's the doomershit with Hunter, woof, and mummy?Vtr's also just babby's first angst.
>>96875353I dunno. Any reason really, never underestimate players getting miffed at "Fuck you I ain't gonna tell you shit" from an NPC. How subsceptible to mindfuckery would a garou be?
>>96875325>does the werewolf like them enough to not care about a violation of the veilThen you give them a quick lore spiel breakdown>does the wolf not like them"Fuck off normie we aren't friends"
>>96875365Hunter makes it seem like the world is against you, anons have spoken about Forsaken being very much a game where you're getting gaslight and are in a fucked situation, and I wasn't even aware mummy had a chronicles version>>96875351Did WoD even need more coherent crunch?
>>96875369Do they catch it while it's mad? Up to the ST.Outside of ripping a snake apart and calmer? Up to the ST
>>96875369>Religious zealot who thinks they're right even if they fuck up ad naseumNot susceptible at all unless you can provide a mountain of evidence to mindrape them
>>96875329It's not that though. You're thinking of WoD5. CofD is anything but street level. Most, if not all games support multiple "levels" of play. Vigil can just as easily be a globetrotting adventure where elite monster hunters blast a new spook every session while tracking down an ancient conspiracy as it can be a game about four normal people having to protect their podunk town from the forces of evil. Changeling: the Lost dedicated an entire book on high exp, lategame stories with special rules for characters that reach 6+ Wyrd. Maybe Requiem overcorrected a little bit on account of being the first thing to launch right after the fustercluck that was Gehenna, but even then, you have dedicated Elder devotions, plant ghouls, vitae powered constructs, dhampirs, Wights (called Draugr in requiem) that retain their intelligence. Street level =/= no metaplot. Street level is about stakes and power level. There's no arbitrary power or scale cap in any CofD game.
>>96875334Isn't that just regular Apocalypse but with less ecoterrorism?
Regardless of the themes and the vibes of WtA vs WtF, I would rather play the former just on the basis on the nomenclature alone.I don't know from where they asspulled them for each system, but WtA's names for stuff have always sounded to me way cooler than WtF's.And I have been a nogame readeronly up until recently, so I really didn't have any grognard investment in the oldest system.
>>96875403hmm, cool. but I'm still sort of curious about why they even needed to attempt a reboot of the property. The scenario for most of these games except for Vigil, Geist, and Changeling are kind of not as flavorful or cool as the scenario for the original gamelines
>>96875458>but I'm still sort of curious about why they even needed to attempt a reboot of the property$$$
>>96875441I personally find the whole Fang, Talon, Bone, etc naming scheme in both of them annoying, that's why I like that Forsaken has a made up language equivalent for all of them.
>>96875458Blame Gehenna and, well, business company reasons.
>>96875458>ChangelingCtD is manicpixiedreamI'msomagicalandsodifferet bullshit where the BBEG is getting an office job.At least in CtL you're a rape survivor scared shitless that you will find the BBC waiting for you every time you turn a corner, at least the misery gives the game stakes.
>>96874597You needn't be Elder level to have a few Path Dots, it's barely above neonate. Also, Incorporial Passage, a mere 3rd Level Ritual will fend off most physical threats. Or use a CCTV Ritual (level 1) on a camera on a drone.Can you do this off the rip in a bar fight? Not likely. But if you're gonna go meet the Lupines, you can be prepped with a game plan to explode or spike or cage, every garou.
>>96875212Sure! They're the science types. Assigned to find more places where oil or other fuel sources can be drilled. I never really looked into them, not my kind of thing. Still, without them I'd be hard to keep the company running. I heard they're accepting interns.
>>96875523What is the dreaming? I've played lost but never really understood what old world changeling was or how it fit into the overall world of darkness
>>96875522>>96875496Was WhiteWolf/CCP struggling financially around that time? IIRC these came out before they got bought by Paradox
I do think the Avatar Storm WAS a good idea.
>>96875523This post probably puts it into words best why I would never want to touch CtL. Suffering porn isn't interesting, it's overwrought.
What Fera alive or dead,would be of most benefit to the Garou nation if by wyld miracle they could work together
>>96875523How is CtL different? I know you're playing more of a Fae bullshit victim than you are playing outright Fae themselves but is it really just that much more popular because of the misery element?
>>96870815I played as a gargoyle.They haven't been allowed to make more since the Convention of Thorns, since it specifically outlawed them from making more as a requirement for them joining the Camarilla.My gargoyle's sire was just a slave they had locked in a basement in Hungary, though. They can't make more directly with magic, but they don't fucking need to because most gargoyles are already mentally enslaved to them and can sire. Especially since gargoyles lose their memory when they're turned, the Tremere can still basically make as many as they want pretty easily. The only reason they would even bother keeping the numbers down is because of potential masquerade breaches + keeping the other clans from getting all bitchy about it.
>>96875534Heard it described here that Changelings are more like emotional vampires and that they basically keep human imagination/emotion alive by siphoning it from dudes and engaging in soulkilling shit like office works gives them brain hemorrhages
>>96875419Eh... not in my estimation. I have never felt like a horror movie monster in Apocalypse. Apocalypse also suffers from over-focusing on the wyrm in general and pentex in particular. Other potential antagonists like the weaver are chronically underdeveloped. Forsaken has better balance, and not every (or even most) antagonists like each other. It's also not just divorced from ecoterrorism, it's divorced from Apocalypse's often heavy-handed political commentary. Which isn't to say you can't attribute spiritual causes to real-life problems, that's still a major part of the game, but isn't centralized around one celestine or another. Forsaken's spirit world feels much more multipolar, which is a bonus for me. And I think these small changes are why Forsaken seems to upset a lot of Apocalypse players. There are some strong similarities, and the differences are subtle, but foundational. In Apocalypse, you're fighting against the status quo. You're often painted as mother nature's last line of defense, even if you're something of a chronic fuck-up with anger issues. In Forsaken, you're actively upholding the status quo. You don't want the gauntlet to be any thinner or thicker. You're not a crazed radical, you're the moderate. You're playing whack-a-mole with dozens of various spirit-derivative problems, without a grand evil entity to blame it all on or to defeat. Some might see that as doomer, I think it's great. Forsaken is almost a Man vs. Nature set-up. Instead of Nature being at risk of death, you're trying to prevent Nature from changing so radically it becomes inhospitable to life as you know it. You don't hate nature, you don't want it dead, but sometimes it feels like it wants you dead. It's the Werewolf game for people that don't like Apocalypse. Has a lot of similarities but, also has some very foundational differences that makes it more appealing if you're not into the "holy war for reality" stuff oWoD lines often lean into.
>>96873874Don't go down that path anon, you'll just invite the Abyss into your ass so you can kill people with gay sex. No this is not a euphemism, it's a real ability
>>96875525Luckily, woofs themselves don't have access to any magic bullshit so a single Tremere could easily solo a pack of furries.
>>96875541Why? Honestly, why?
>>96875542Good thing it doesn't have to be suffering porn.
>>96875573Doesn't Rage and "Muh Spirit Muh Gaia" let them facetank or ignore magic? Like if a mage were to turn then into a furry rug or chair couldn't a werewolf just not let that happen?
>>96875534>https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Changeling:_The_Dreaming#Premise
>>96875559Well, you do have a point. I guess when you're justifiably fighting against the end of the world it's hard to feel like a monster even when you have no control going apeshit
>>96875580Don't forget that reality would be on the woof side too.
>>96875578Every part of the setting is designed to beat you over the head with the theme that yes, this is suffering porn. Just look at the courts.
>>96875580I'm sure that a Technocrat plasma rifle in the 4 watt range will still hurt them. It's magic just a lot less vulgar
>>96875578Jesus, he's right >>96875606. The courts are just their different responses to dealing with their innate Fairyland PTSD.
>>96875543Gurahl because they're just flat out wiser, stronger and better than the garou in every sense, or Apis because their matchmaking would solve the ever-dwindling-numbers issue of the Garou and anything wyrm-ish would be fucked when every tribe has a BSD-level of turnout.Granted the the woof don't go crazy again of course.
>>96875574'ate the Umbra'ate the Archmages'ate the MassesLuv fighting as an underdog.Simple as.
>CtL is suffering porn bullshit back againCould oWoD purists fight the real enemy, Paradox for once? CtL is not misery porn. "I actually had a great time in arcadia, but my keeper got bored of me and now I'm bitter" is a default backstory. One of the standard seasonal courts is about joy and pleasure. It's a dark game, as something in a "World of Darkness" should be, but that does not make it misery porn. Take back your life. Kill your keeper. Go on adventures in the hedge. Learn ancient secrets. Make pacts. You can even become a True Fae if you want to go that far off the deep end. Or fuck it, play a privateer. Traffick people into the hedge, sell them en masse at goblin markets. Hunt down some summer court boy that's been causing problems and deliver his screaming head to the true fae for a power boost. Be the bad guy. I'll admit there's not much official support for it, but you could even play as a loyalist. Do whatever daddy True Fae tells you, all for the pleasure of getting to gargle his balls. If Lost reads as misery porn because bad things happened to you in your backstory, I'm at a loss as to what the hell actually happens at your guys' tables. Do your chronicles typically star people who never got a raw deal in life, who only ever win, who always save the day without getting shanked, kicked down, mind-fucked, or outwitted? I want a DARK story, that's why I'm playing World/Chronicles of DARKNESS.
>>96875612>4 wattEquivalent to 4 good laser pointers. No kidding that discharge wouldn't amaze the sleepers.
What supernaturals would welcome a gambler into their ranks?>Lasombra>Ravnos>Ventrue>Shadow Lords>Euthanatoi>Oracle's GuildThat's all can think of.
>>96875549Dark fairytales and amoral trickster fairies are just cool. I also think Dreaming is kinda redundant, it's yet another "modernity bad" OWoD game, it's no wonder people use Banality, Weaver and Technocracy interchangebly.
>>96875593>>96875612I suppose Tremere magic would be an exception or a mage casting silver buckshot but they can probably still tank that I assume
>>96875441>WtA's names for stuff have always sounded to me way cooler than WtF's.Agreed. I also found the names of things in Mummy the Resurrection far more coherent than those in Cursed. >>96875549NTA, but for me the main draw was more variety. You had six seemings, each broken up into like a dozen kith each. And then you had four courts instead of two. I just felt like it allowed for more interesting characters that Dreaming did. Meanwhile, my ST loved it because of one sentence about hobgoblins which basically stated that they can look like anything, act like anything, and have any abilities or powers. But despite the draw, it just didn't hit with anyone at the table; so now we're going to take a stab as Changing Breeds next spring.
>>96875644You're laughing but by 2029 we'll make Skynet a part of the consensus.
>>96875550>Especially since gargoyles lose their memory when they're turned, the Tremere can still basically make as many as they want pretty easily.I know it's canon but personally I don't like the idea of gargoyles being able to embrace and I'd rather have them follow Blood Brother rules, making the existing ones much more prized as sentiment servants/allies and the rite a much more succulent forbidden fruit. I feel it makes for much more compelling drama, plus all the created angst you can rip off Frankenstein without pulling out Promethean.
>>96875606>>96875615They are literally the stages of grief.Not the only Courts around, tho, and I get >>96875578 as in you can make it about balancing between human and fey nature while keeping the Gentry as vague eldtrich Cthulhus.Also the basic pitch has some punch apart from "If you get a 401k it means game over"
>>96875658Good luck tanking silver, they're gonna need it.
>>96875652A gambler? Ministry would for the trappings alone. I feel most vampires could get talked into it.
>>96875672>the stages of griefThat's pseudoscience bullshit, and you know it.
>>96875682Oh you're pretending. It makes sense now.
>>96875655That makes sense, I never really stopped to consider how heavy oWoD is on "modernity bad" as a theme
>>96875669When it comes for me, do me a courtesy and arm it with better than the diode out of a Playstation.
>>96875667>changing breedsHow is that different from WtA normally other than less outright ecoterrorism stuff and more spiritual stuff
>>96875686Well, it's more fun pretending than being a coping victim. In that regard, Dreaming is more darker than Lost. In real life people are more likely to give up on their dreams and grow up, i.e. shut up and put up, with mundane bullshit until they die. That's a little more universal, wouldn't you say? Not everyone has to deal with some trauma like Lost. Nor that that would appeal to everyone, any way.
>>96875716All the Fera are doing eco-terrorism.
>>96875697>"modernity bad"Were they wrong, though?
>>96875636> "I actually had a great time in arcadia, but my keeper got bored of me and now I'm bitter"Literally impossible by the Gentry's nature, you're just in denial because if you admitted to yourself that your Keeper made you feel pretty and immediately discarded you after using you as a cumdumpster, your entire sense of being would implode.>One of the standard seasonal courts is about joy and pleasure.As a way of coping. "I spent years in the rape dungeon but that doesn't mean that I should swear off sex, and if anything I learned a thing or two about fucking">Take back your life.Yes. From TRAUMA>Kill your keeperLiterally impossible. Maybe "Kill the version of your Keeper that kept you and watch it re-telling itself whole as another facet of itself, one that might not have memory of your existence, and hope that it lasts">You can even become a True Fae if you want to go that far off the deep end.Literally a game over condition.>Or fuck it, play a privateer. Traffick people into the hedge, sell them en masse at goblin markets.Hurt people hurt people. Sure you can. All your peers will turn on you but whatever. WtA has rules to play a Black Spiral Dancer, evil campaigns are always a possibility.---Of course you can do whatever you want. The baseline of the system is still bleak as fuck tho, it's literally "You just came out of the most abusive relationship you can ever imagine. Now rebuild"
>>96874750>he needs a metaplothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSfYWs4lHdw
>>96875760>The ST having more options and ideas to pull from is a bad thing, actually
>>96875744You and I clearly have very different definitions of "bleak as fuck". I repeat. Yeah, bad shit happened to you. Is Vampire (either version really) misery porn because you got "raped" (the kiss) and murdered (the embrace), and now you can't go out in the sun or have a steak ever again?
>>96875778>not using the vast depth of my imagination for content>asking for "consensus" to let me cast magic
>>96875797The theme of Vampire isn't trauma and coping. It's not a game built around trauma and coping. CtL is, and it inarguably is.
Are fae just magical diddlers taking people to Epfae's island?
>>96875797>Resorting to he old and tired "The Kiss is rape" analogyUnc is so cooked right now. *skull emoji*
>>96875682I'm not judging the validity of it in real life, I'm just saying that the seasonal Courts are basically modeled after the widespread conception of grief coping mechanisms.>>96875730It might be "more darker" in theoretical nogame terms, "Boo-hoo you will lose your childish dreams and Bing Bong will die" might be a workable narrative prompt in the void, but it is a pretty flimsy, conceptual drive for an actual game.It works in theory, but it really gives very little impulse to the game unless the player REALLY take on themselves to move it along, which again is very interesting and fulfilling in theory but mostly doesn't work.While at least CtL's core narrative drive has an actual overarching push for plots to happen regardless of the player's initiative, there's stuff out there that is coming to get ya, you better do something about it.
>>96875739It depends on which aspect of Uncle Ted's thesis you're focusing on, but no, they aren't wrong
>>96875810I didn't know you worked on Disco?
>>96875778nta, I'd argue that oWoD gives you less options on average than nWoD does, specifically by virtue of its far more fixed settings. The focus is on the Wyrm, so Wyrmshit makes up 90% of enemies and the other potential foes are underbaked. Noddism is gets all the attention past a certain point, so if you wanted a different origin for vampires, you're going to have to make it from scratch. nWoD lines typically go wide, oWoD lines go deep. So if you like the oWoD conceit, you enjoy how deep it goes. If you don't though, kick sand, you have no prompts.
Since we're about to autosage, I'd like to thank everyone who posted B&W art. Also, a question. Does anyone give a fuck if any Setite-exclusive Sorcery makes it into the VTM to VTR 2e fan translation guide? Because every time I try to take a crack at it I lose all interest.
>>96875834>CtL's core narrative driveWhich is...?Yes, being a victim! Clap, clap, clap, congratulations!!!
>>96875822"Theme" is nice and all, but it's hardly the meat of what makes a game enjoyable. You get backstories as fucked up as what you see in CtL all the time in other games, it doesn't force everyone to play Therapy: the Coping. You're asserting an undercurrent as if it is an overcurrent that defines everything about the game. It's the same way of thinking that leads to people using Mage the Ascension as a vehicle for their IRL retarded political philosophies.
>>96875880Seethe harder, maybe you'll change
>>96872324I vaguely remember there being a Gangrel with elephant tusks in a book.
>>96875797Vampire can be bleak, sure, but it positions you as an active force in the world (of Darkness) in a completely different light than CtL.Even the simple fact that you can actually accomplish shit against the source of your misery, your Sire, and that your Sire has motives that are still essentially understandable and human, sets you off in a completely different place than a changeling. A new vampire is impotent becase of the society they are thrown into, which they could always adapt to, subvert, or abandon. A new changeling is impotent because fuck you that's why, now go pick up the pieces of what you once were.
>>96875906Assuming he's not just shitposting, I get the impression that he can't make the distinction between "you were a victim, objectively" and having a victim mentality. People are victimized all the time, people have awful things happen to them all the time, and yes, people develop coping mechanisms. But that does not necessitate an inherently unhealthy, "boo-hoo woe is me" mindset. In fact, even the Court all about sadness and hiding, the Winter Court, aren't one-note crybabies.
>>96875845speaking of disco, the world building in it is pretty damn crazy. Apparently the writers spent like a decade or two just perfecting the intricacies of the setting in a homebrew roleplay
>>96875906I gracefully accept your concession.(You)s produce Glamour, you know. Sucker.
>>96875716>How is that different from WtA normallyI think the argument can be made that the Fera are somewhat less obnoxious than the Garou.
You guys think Book of Hungry Name's DLC will go on sale any time soon or no?
>>96875939Is the Syndicate's "festival" (Black Friday) soon enough?
>>96875580Not really. Their Gifts are their own magic, so there is some stuff they could do against an incorporial tremere levitating them & shishkabobing them on Conjured silver spikes. But it's a hell of a tactic when most lupines just shift to Crinos, rage, & melee in that order. You spike the first one & that's gonna surprise them, two of the remaining ones try to body tackle, only to catch nothing but mist. Second & Third Lupine gets spiked, fourth Lupine steps sideways to avoid getting killed & the fifth one drops to his knees suffering from harano. Fight over. Sure, 99% of the time a Lupine will kill a kindred, but Tremere don't fight with fists like a Brujah. Even with these tactics a Tremere can die to the Lupjne, but saying that only elders can start to match the savages is not accurate. Just hope the Chantry is warded hard against spirits & the like or your next sunrise is gonna suck when the wolves use the umbra to kidnap you.Hell Garou get their own broken combos. With Singing Dog's Cry, Call of the Wyld, & Falling Touch, you can make anyone who hears you fall down. I've never done the combo myself but I've always wanted to introduce a BBEG that way. You hear a howl ring across the entire city & everyone drops.Or Clashing Boom Boom, Hands Full of Thunder, Apecrafts Blessing, Tommy's New Trick, Eye of the Falcon, Under the Gun, Skyscraper Vision/View the Battlefield, this will let you fire endless ammo with hardly any chance of failure, to having homing bullets to anyone you can see, which is fucking EVERYONE
Also speaking of Disco Elysium, anyone play this?https://store.steampowered.com/app/1926120/Vampire_The_Masquerade__Heartless_Lullaby/Apparently it's only a prologue for an upcoming fuller game, titled Heartless Symphony
>>96875942>a whole monthI guess so, the game is available at a cheap enough sale and a combo with heart of the forest though I'm more of a fan of the small town USA vibe of Book compared to Poland Shame the DLC isn't on sale though
>>96875952It's pretty good but sorry to break your heart anon it was made in a game jam and even the dev says it's currently stuck in development hell It's not quite disco, but it's very inspired
>>96875950Steel Fur, Heat Metal, Master of Fire.Is that just a cool visual or is it a viable combo?
>>96875939It's easy enough to pirate and port onto whatever copy you're currently playing.
>>96875950That sounds pretty insanely OP until some uppity mage pulls out the chair spell
>>96875170Stop shocking your dog.
>>96875986Where? I've been looking but the most up to date is a few patches behind and only has the 1st dlc
>>96875980>vampire jamWe are never getting another one, are we?
>>96875989Just mail them a magic pipe bomb. If that doesn't work ask the progenitors to recreate and upgrade that one anti-werewolf virus. You know they'd do it.
>>96875980>dev hellJust fucking fuck me, fuck this fucking life up>WoD MMO died in dev hell>Bloodlines 2 spent 6 years in dev hell>this is also in dev hellJust end this fucking IP, put it out of its misery. Goth is dead.
>>96876005>>WoD MMO died in dev hellQrd?
>>96876001>>96876005Don't forget anons>WtA by Troika shut down after models and assets started to get made>Werewolf in dev hell until Earthblood>Mage canned and recanned>Only timely releases are the one VR company and CYOA/VN studiosThis IP is cursed beyond reasonable belief but it's probably just the results of poor IP management compared to Warhammer>The Eternal Swede Strikes Again
>>96876018NTA but>White Wolf sees Bloodlines and Redemption being a hit and decides they want to get in on the video game pie>Warcraft is the craze rn in the early 2000's so decide to hit up local MMO company CCP responsible for Eve online>Company merger>White Wolf hires devs to make WoD MMO>CCP keeps siphoning these devs to push out Eve updates>this continues until MMO gets cancelled because it's been 10 years with nothing to show for it and CCP sells white wolf and wod to Paradox
>>96875989Mages play on another level, we're talking about fun crazy things the other guys can do>>96875982That sounds kind of fun. I would allow it but it might be ST dependent on whether the fur becomes actual metal or not
>>96875525Incorporeal Passage in V20 takes 15 minutes to cast (5 minute per ritual level when time isn’t specified explicitly in the ritual. In DAV20 it’s six hours.
>>96875990Get off your computer, go outside, touch grass. This isn't an insult, this is for your own health.
>>96876050From what I read on here the fun crazy things mages can do is debate the DM on whether or not their fanny pack hides them materializing a fully automatic shotgun chambered for silver slugs enough for it to not instantly melt their brains
>>96875880The opposite, recovering from being a victim and taking back the power over their lives.
>>96876003the what?
>>96875923>the Winter Court, aren't one-note crybabies.In fact, it's about using that to perform subtle acts against the Gentry with espionage and sorcerous acts.
>>96876024I feel really fucking terrible for Troika guys. Such a great passion project completely overshadowed by HL2. It's still bringing in fans to VtM decades later, yet it was the fucking nail in the coffin for their company.If you think about it, VtM:B is such a curse:>put original devolper in the ground>IP jumps from hands to hands, companies trying to capitalize on the success of Bloodlines>ended in the hands of a company that does not give a shit in the slightest, terminating with the stains that are WoD5 and VtM:B2
>>96876059I said you don't just whip this out during a barfight. It's more of a "I've come to negotiate" type thing to prep, & it lasts for hours unless ended prematurely.>>96876089Exactly. Better to stick to the fun splats
>>96876129Bloodlines was the real Gehenna all along>Happened in the shadows because publisher fuckery caused it to get snubbed by HL2>Awakened sleeping hungry jews (shareholders) that are trying to get a piece of the pie at the cost of everyone else>permanently made the IP worse despite being rather cool in and of itselfVery ironic
Just tried making a V5 build for the first time and you guys weren't kidding. It's so much worse than I thought.I just wrote a 2000+ character rant about how much I hate V5 but I'll spare you all from seeing it.
>>96876094>Not Another Hallmark Original
>>96876168As someone who is new to WoD, please post it. I'd like to read more about why it's so bad
>>96876168Post it, we all somewhat dislike V5 in here though I like some plot developments
Phyre!!!!! FUCKING PHYRE!!!!!! What were they smoking, honestly?
>>96876061Stop shocking your dog please.
>>96876186It sounds like fire, it's ironic bro, you wouldn't get it.
>>96876186Phyre? You mean Vamphyre
I wish i could Awaken irl. Le sigh.
>>96876186A vampire named Phyre, sent to the pyre and set on fire.
>>96876186>the kids are going to love it
>>96876212What if my dog enjoys getting shocked? That's what the Gaia-given healing is for
>>96876168post it.>>96876185same
>>96876186No wonder xhe's called Phyre, what with making the game crash and burn and all.
>>96876129a lesson in project scoping, that's all.
>2e, Revised, v20, et cetraYou want to play a sabbat game? Go for it man, here's even some hoodrat shit you can do with your friends like lighting cars on fire and DnD LARP in the sewers (with real swords)>v5You are NOT under ANY circumstance to play the sabbat. They are evil monsters, yes the game is about being an evil monster but you're NOT supposed to have fun
>>96876137Just to continue posting fun combos Take Path of Spirit Manipulation, spend some time to mold or find the perfect Bane spirit that you'll have possess you. If you're lucky & do it right you can get the abilities>Siren's Veil>Homogeny>Extra Speed>Gifted FormorIn addition to only needing to sleep a few hours per day, sunlight now does bashing damage. Only drawbacks are you look like a Cappadocian with stubby fangs, & you make zombies when you kill someone. Which isnt such a negative if you know some Necromancy & have alternate methods of feeding (which Tremere do)For the wolves,Silver Claws, Wind Claws, Shadow Cutting, Razor ClawsGives you an Agg damage attack that you cannot parry, get a minus to dodge, ignores armor, is at a lower difficulty and with bonus damage
>>96876222>t.
>>96876185I vehemently hate v5 & anyone with a brain hates it too
What Shadow seems appropriate for a school shooter to have?
>>96876293A glowie
>>96876276I always found amusing that the Sabbat was made playable but not nephandi and Black Spiral Dancers (especially them since formori ARE playable)
>>96876305Did nephandi not get a splat?
>>96876276Isn't 5th edition obsessed with forcing you to play "the right way" no matter the splat?
>>96876313One book dedicated to them but no character sheet or unique mechanics (and Phil Brucato yells at you to not play as them at the beginning)
>>96876305I could have sworn there's rules for BSD in book of the wyrm.
>>96876185what's developed in the plot?
>>96875989>the chair spellMage 20th devoted like half a page to citing every detail of why the chair spell wouldn't work.
>>96876305>Black Spiral DancersI mean, maybe they're a bit under-developed but BSD have Gifts and shit.
>>96876305I thought either Freak Legion or the Book of Wyrm had a chapter which served as a "tribe book" for the BSDs.
>>96872327If all goes well, I might be able to rope one of my friends into Wraith: the Oblivion. If not, she still has expressed interest in the other lines.
You know, if I told my players during a session that Pentex cooked up a new demoralization campaign against woofs by having a popular and influential entertainment figure keep his dog in one place for hours on end and giving it an electric shock when it moves so much as an inch right on stream they'd tell me it's way too edgy and totally implausible because nobody would ever get away with such a thing. But here we are.
>>96876329All the boomer elders fuck off so they can't boss you around anymore.You aren't allowed to play a nazi & all the nazis who might find there way into the story MUST either die or repent, no other options!
>>96876364While Piker does definitely reek of the Wyrm part of me would make him a Ferectoi because of the nepo-baby stuff, but that might be giving him too much credit, Ferectoi are powerful , did WtA engage in direct lampshades of real political figures much? A lot of Pentex companies have obvious real world equivalents, but I can't name any clear parodies of individuals off the top of my head.
>>96876352>Wraith: the OblivionA high-concept game in which every player has two Characters and they all PvP against each other's primary Characters in order to make them fail, MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST CHOICE for somebody who's already strapped to find a group.
>>96876388I've seen maybe two posts ever talking about a successfully completed WtO game where everyone had fun. Seems like one of those games that are interesting to think about but shit to play.
>>96875670Yeah. Real.The whole point is they're created beings. Created. If they could reproduce, it probably shouldn't be a normal embrace. More like using their own blood as the basis of another foul ritual, at best.
>>96876385>lampshadesYou mean lampooning? Anyway I don't remember but mostly Trump, at least recently. Because of course.
Calling all hunters!We have an infestation!
>>96876385The thing is, there's no need to make direct parodies of any company. I've heard an opinion that there's no great cabal in real life, it's just that so many people who cross a certain financial threshold have similar personality traits and values. So, when parodying a certain person or group, one inadvertently ends up parodying almost everyone that's even tangentially related to them.
>>96876249>CCP buys WW, tries to make a WoWish MMO game that's completely out of their wheelhouse as a ships-only space sim/hypercapitalism MMO company, and put the WW ex-president with zero experience in video games in charge of the North America studio>After 6 years decide to divest from publishing the paper products and spins that off into OPP>Two years later completely write off the entire thing, sell it all to Paradox because there was absolutely zero effective progress in making an actual game>Paradox, a 4X sim company that mainly makes games with $200+ of DLC known for baroque menu interactions and no actual in-setting gameplay, tries to do a first-person RPG when nobody they employ or can contract to has ever made a game like that>Eventually get it out the door after a total restart of the entire game design at a different studio that also doesn't make that kind of game and it's mediocre with no real reason to do RPG type stuff in the gameWhite Wolf didn't have the best results licensing it out before CCP, but they were able to at least find studios that could deliver games that felt like they were what the games were supposed to be.
>>96876418>I've heard an opinion that there's no great cabal in real life, it's just that so many people who cross a certain financial threshold have similar personality traits and values.Alas, that opinion is wrong and retarded.
>>96876432You've convinced me.
>>96876439You're welcome.
>>96874274No.
>>96876333Or I can just choose to ignore that as the ST as realistically no one on my group is autistic enough to run mage I'm aware though, I just think it's funny turning other splats into chairs >>96876329I think the Hecata and the Ministry are relatively okay to inoffensive at worst, and while I don't like the Banu Haqim compared to the Assamites I'm not against them either, and Lasombra being in the Camarilla is alright. It all happens a bit fast but it's not really the end of the world. What I hate about V5 though is>Elders just fuck off but without nuance>Too much thinblood focus now that elders got dumped>Tremere chantry getting busted despite the retcon>SI surveillance shit>Sabbat getting fragmented as a result of said elder leadership getting vored in the middle-eastIt generally detracts from the setting more than it adds to it but I think some ideas are good, just like 1 step forward 10 steps back though
>>96876179>>96876226I already deleted my RAGE post but ok, I'll calmly rewrite it with less expletives.In short they generalized everything in the worst ways possible. They removed tons of customization options and this is a MAJOR issue for me. I went through and counted it for V5 in the core rulebook.Not counting thin-bloods, V5 gives you 9 merits and 16 flaws under advantages. That's it. All the shit under background like fame, status, contacts, allies, are all things that were already in earlier editions. In comparison, V20 has 12/30 physical merits/flaws, 15/21 mental merits/flaws, 22/34 social merits/flaws, and 14/15 supernatural merits/flaws. It's a HUGE fucking difference in customization, Anon. The majority of what V5 gives you are ways to make your character shittier. The fuck is wrong with these idiots? There are several things you can't even do anymore. It's like these idiots didn't even read the previous editions.By the way, in V5, you get 7 merit points and must take 2 flaws. 9 merits and 4 flaws if you play an older character. THAT'S IT. That is fucking awful. In comparison, V20 rules gives you 15 freebie points and a chart allowing you to increase anything for different costs. You can spend those freebie points on increasing your stats or you could grab some very useful merits. Then, you can take up to 7 points of flaws in order to gain 7 more merit points. You had lots of customization and different builds you could make! You could even start with 5 dots in a discipline if you were autistic enough to do that.
>>96876418There's no need, it's just a lot easier and more poignant.
>>96876474Another major thing I hate is that they removed virtues and paths which were flavorful and replaced it with tenants/touchstones/convictions essentially attempting to force everyone into taking the honor code merit (which was actually awesome) in a lame attempt to rip off D&D. They basically forced every vampire into a path. The entire point of humanity is that it is meant to be inconsistent. You're meant to be lying to yourself and trying to rationalize your behavior in an attempt to maintain your humanity, while those who took paths gained conviction and embraced their inhumanity instead.Their take on touchstones is a terrible attempt at introducing a hook to force the players to have some kind of humanity tie-in for manufactured drama. This ties into their misunderstanding of how humanity works. Humanity was more dependent on YOU, your philosophy, your rationality, your outlook, etc. It was the lie you told yourself to keep yourself from succumbing to the beast. It's meant to be contradictory. Not every kindred should have a lover or some kind of humanizing character aspect to them that ties them to humanity. What V5 wants you to do is go apeshit and frenzy if your touchstone goes bye-bye where in V20 you would've had a scene of attempting to rationalize the situation to see if you can control yourself or overcome it through force of character and will. It's a fucking stupid and reductionist take.Also on the topic of humanity, we have to talk about frenzies and rouse checks. The entire game of V5 is designed to force you to do rouse checks and you have 5 hunger. That's it. In comparison, in V20, you started with 10 blood points in your blood pool and you were mechanically hungry when you hit 7 minus your self-control rating. That means if you had 3 dots in Self-Control you didn't need to make hunger checks for using your abilities until you had 4/10 blood points remaining.
>>96876485You could also get the Generation merit and start as an 8th Generation which had 15 blood points, or you could take 5 Self-Control instead and have it only come up at 2 Blood Points to begin with. So in V20 you simply USED your powers, and you were good to go for the most part. In V5, every single time you use a discipline you need to make a rouse check, and if you fail your dice rolls, you frenzy and go gorilla mode. Fucking stupid. It's forced drama and in practice everyone is on a hair-trigger and plays like a Malkavian mixed with a Brujah mixed with a Gangrel. Everyone has some psychosis to where 3 or so bad rolls is enough to force you into starvation where in other systems you could've used those same powers 6-7+ times before risking it on the low end.Next, I'm pissed at the skill changes for Empathy. Empathy makes perfect thematic sense for this game because it ties heavily into humanity. They replaced Empathy with the generic Insight. This is STUPID. In V20, if you wanted to be insightful without being empathetic, you had a bunch of flavorful merits you could take to allow a character to have an easier time in social situations which was fitting for a sociopath character. Sociopaths aren't necessarily empathetic. So you could take certain merits to allow you to read people easier, or get reductions and bonuses to social checks, etc. In V20 you could play a highly manipulative character who had 1 dot in Conscience (Virtue) but high Self-Control/Courage and no Empathy, and you could be successful in social situations or have insight into liars. By the way, on page 255 of the V20 core rules it lists you persuading the prince through Manipulation+Expression as an example roll.Also, WITS IS NOT THE SAME AS PERCEPTION. They removed Perception and rolled that into Wits. Small problem. You can be witty but airheaded and clueless with bad situational awareness, YOU CAN'T DO THAT NOW WITHOUT MAKING YOURSELF MENTALLY LAG ON A WIFI CONNECTION.
>>96876415This book is really good.
>>96876494Composure and Resolve should be VIRTUES not main attributes, but since they removed virtues, they had to shove it in somewhere. Which is why they removed Appearance from your attributes and lazily made it a 2 and 4 dot merit, fucking any kind of Toreador build over by giving them a merit tax. Then they removed Awareness which was an awesome and flavorful skill related to sensing supernatural and paranormal activity, which tied perfectly with Occult/Tremere/Giovanni/etc builds, but instead they removed it and forgot about it, it isn't even mentioned as part of normal awareness now. Not even a merit. Whoops.Also they fucked up the clan banes and made a lot of pointless edits to them. Amalgam disciplines are also stupid as shit and ruined the flavor. Imagine removing Vicissitude but combining it into base Protean with a 1 dot investment in Dominate and now anyone can grab it if they have both. WHY IS VICISSITUDE AN AMALGAM? WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY DO TO OBTENEBRATION BY FUSING IT WITH NECROMANCY AND RENAMING IT OBLIVION??? WHY DOES THE V5 COREBOOK ONLY SUPPORT A 11TH GENERATION AND WHY ARE YOU SUCH A PIECE OF SHIT WEAKLING FOR IT?WHY DID THEY MAKE BLOOD POTENCY SO SHIT, IT'S BASICALLY WRITTEN SO THAT A 10TH GEN CAN'T EVEN DRINK ANIMAL BLOOD ANYMORE IF THEY HAVE 2 BLOOD POTENCY? WHAT THE FUCK? DID THEY EVEN READ THE LORE OF NOS AND GANGREL FROM ANCIENT ROME AND THE MEDIEVAL AGES LIVING OFF OF THE WILD ANIMALS FUCK YOUUUU THEY WERE DEFINITELY LOWER THAN 10-11TH GEN BUT WERE ABLE TO SURVIVE OFF OF ANIMAL BLOOD FOR A TIMEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI HOPE YOU ARE FUCKING HAPPY ANON I AM ANGREY AND I DIDNT WANT TO POST THIS BUT HERE YOU GO I WROTE AN EVEN MORE INCOHERENT RAGEPOST THAN BEFORE FUCK YOU AND FUCK V5I'M NOT EVEN GONNA EDIT THIS SHIT FUCK IT I'M POSTING IT
>>96876388>>96876403While the game is conceptually pretty engaging, I think the game just takes too much agreement and cooperation between the ST and the group at least compared to other tabletops. Your players have to both not metagame and not be too dickish to each other otherwise it doesn't work very well.You can also just skip the emo part of Wraith and just play ghost DnD with the more political part of wraith but then you're missing out on all the other cool shit
>>96876428I forget was Earthblood under White Wolf, CCP, or Paradox
>>96876474>>96876485>>96876494>>96876512This is what V5 does to a man. RIP Anon.
>>96876485>What V5 wants you to do is go apeshit and frenzy if your touchstone goes bye-byeVersus in Requiem 2E, which they stole it from, where it's a link to mortal humanity that helps maintain remembering how to be human and not a monster, and losing it causes you to become languid and eventually go into torpor if you can't replace it.
>>96876512Based writeup broski, thank you. I hope we're out of this V5 limbo soon
>>96876521Paradox.
If the current VtM game I'm planning to run goes well what do you lads think I should run next? Old Reckoning, Vigil, or Mage? I'd rather not be ST but I accepted my role already, too scared to run the other games though
Hang the fuck on, I thought VtM used Generations, not Blood Potency. Isn't Blood Potency from Requiem? What's it doing in Masquerade? The more I hear about V5 the less I understand.
>>96876538Christ, that's a bad track record
>>96876521>>96876538Also, I'll note that most of Studio Cyanide's games are cycling manager games.
>>96875365In Mummy: the Cursed, you may either have coherent memories or cosmic power but not both. The longer you stay in the material world, the more your powers fade.
>>96876558Why'd they work on Earthblood then?
>>96876552They made blood potency a thing in V5, here it is from page 216 of the core book.
>>96876545I will say Mage (Ascension?), but I know most people will suggest Vigil. Reckoning, while fun, asks too much of WoD newbies to role-play properly.
>>96876545My vote always goes to mage
>>96876545I will always advocate for Vigil, due to its incredible flexibility. >>96876552V5 has both. You have a Generation, within that generation you have a range of blood potency within your generation that increases with age. Like much of V5, I can actually see what they were trying to do there, but the execution was very poor.
>>96876575Probably because they've done other licensed TTRPG adaptations, like Blood Bowl and Space Hulk before.
>>96876545MtAs is the most fun imo, but Vigil is probably a better follow up game.
>>96876592Neither of which were really action rpgs and wasn't space hulk streum-on?
>>96876576>it needs to be fresh if blood potency above a 3 and you need to KILL to feed after a certain amountThis is pretty damn retarded
>>96876623You get where they are coming from but when you realize that this is charting out to 8th gens or 9th gens it's a joke.
>thinking of going to a Halloween party>my only option for a costume on such short notice is to dress like a damned Tremere
>>96876614>wasn't space hulk streum-on?Space Hulk: Tactics.
>>96876598>>96876589>>96876585>>96876582excellent points, since they're fairly new to the lore and RP'ing something more than DnD maybe I'll just do vigil and then mage
>>96876641>It's a top down turn based game>style would have been perfect for a WtA game>MAKE A FUCKING ACTION GAME INSTEADThis is pretty hilarious
>>96876512sorry anon, but I thank you for the postsI think one thing that bothers me more than anything is rouse checks on any use of any discipline. Playing something like a Tremere whose entire gimmick is using Thaumaturgy and casting rituals/ceremonies sounds makes it sound like they could frenzy in a single scene just from using their powers.And also I never liked touchstones either. I want to make a character who was a loner in life, their sole existed was having a hobby/work, now I can't do it? Why do I need to make up a family backstory?
>>96875523>BBEG is getting an office jobhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYFO5qPpM_I
>>96876655V5 does feel like it actively punishes you for trying to be a vampire. As much as I like Night Road I think you really feel it in there the most>See a cool flavorful option because I'm a Tremere with blood magic>Rest of the mission is way harder now because checks are more difficult and my character is going insane from lack of sippiesEven stupid shit>Use animalism (a dog I already ghouled)>Still have to pay in blood/hunger
I just now realized that most V5 games I have seen get started on youtube end up abruptly stopping after about 10 or so sessions. Probably because it's so shit no one wants to continue.
>>96876633i have unironically considered buying glasses like this, but realistically it would look really goofy without a decent fit
>>96876633bro... your malkRAVEian outfit...??
>>96876675>either Strauss glasses>or slut glasses>sometimes both
>>96876685Yeah, but that requires access to costume elements or time to make them. There is jack and all over here now. Everything was removed by the middle of October to make way for Christmas decorations. For, alas, we live in Hell.
>>96875636Everyone knows that Promethean: the Created is the Wraith: the Oblivion of the Chronicles of Darkness. You play as an autistic alchemical abomination who is rejected by both humanity and the land itself.
VtM but written as a manwha novel. Anon is a transmigrator with a status screen.Would you read?
>>96876714Aren't manwha 80% gay rape fantasies?
>>96875730>shut up and put up, with mundane bullshit until they die“How much nonsense can we take in our lives? And is there any way we can escape it? No, there is not. We are doomed to all kinds of nonsense: the pain nonsense, the nightmare nonsense, the sweat and slave nonsense, and many other shapes and sizes of insufferable nonsense. It is brought to us on a plate, and we must eat it up or face the death nonsense.”― Thomas Ligotti, The Conspiracy Against the Human Race: A Contrivance of Horror
>>96876714I mean I read something like that previously. It was pretty okay.
>>96876724nope. was thinking more generic. like solo leveling tier.>>96876726fair. anyone who knows is already used to mid tier.
>>96876633How exactly is a Tremere dressed? Tweed?
>>96876714I think it would be more on point if they were a Mage & the status screen/helpful voice was their avatar.
>>96875834>Bing Bong will diehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE8mFDabqD0
How much spare blood would you expect to get if your kindred made a deal with a busy slaughterhouse in an urban setting, to get all their waste blood? I know vampires don't get much out of animal blood & a whole cow gives half of what you'd get from a human, but I imagine you'd make it up in volume for sure.
>>96876770Oh definitely enough for a handful of points. If it's the only one in town, I'd say four or five depending on pick up.
>>96876388Hunter: the Vigil is another possibility, if that doesn't pan out.
>>96876403>game where everyone had fun
>>96876776That's one cow of blood. If a slaughterhouse processes 300 or so a day (quick google) there got to be more blood than that.
>>96876800Then there's your answer, you're set for life if you can stomach it. Lower the received bp at your St's discretion.
>>96876800Yeah but it wouldn't be free and it'd be mechanically rather lame if you could solve blood entirely by just doing that. That'd said though I'd probably say you should be able to max out -2 or 3 out off the max on account of needing too much blood for you to handle in one day
I really wish oWod had a Promethean/Frankenstein splat. Something to let me run around as Pinocchio, Talus, Frank etc. Im not the biggest fan of how PtC makes everyone hate you, but there was some really good ideas in there. And oWoD had better writing
>>96876675They're for cheating at cards. Strauss gets a grandfather pass because he dressed to match and maybe he does read that much invisible ink.
>>96876411>If they could reproduce, it probably shouldn't be a normal embraceYeah the idea of "I was bitten by a gargoyle and became one" doesn't sit right with me as it does with a vampire. >using their own blood as the basis of another foul ritual, at best.Sure. I realize the problem is players wanting to have their PC gargoyle in a context where it wouldn't make sense according to the timeline (like a 13th gen goyle in america) but you could simply say the Tremere kept it stored in the basement and took it to the new world in an attempt to hide their sins away from the main body of the Cam, or it was created by an antitribu that doesn't give a fuck about the pact of Montmartre or something to handwave it without the horror of being a created monster minority.I'd also expand upon the "different base kindred means different gargoyle" but don't remember if the fanmade Clanbook did. Pic related's a celerity gargoyle based off a Toreador for instance.
>>96876893You know, it would have been nice if v20 gave us a better idea of what a modern Gargoyle looks like. Sometimes they are living statuary, so,eti,es they're just dudes with horns & wings but human everything else.
>>96876869Feel free to make a fan version.
>>96876333on vampires meanwhile the revised storyteller book says that if you turn a werewolf into silver they get no roll against itthe made it weirdly hard for mages to magic vampires but weirdly easy (several spells with no counter + all gifts can be countered with spirit) for mages to magic werewolves
>>96877133Just ignore stupid rules
>>96877133the lack of saves are definitely interesting and flavorful since you're pretty much imposing your will on reality, but IMO it is pretty shit balance. All these lines are made in a vacuum though and just share the same general setting so it's pretty much just the ST's discretion. Personally, I'd let a wolf rage their way out of being some mages fuzzy coat but not for free
>>96876675Tremere can pull off the look.
>>96876505I've not read the Mage book but Spirit Slayers is also really good. HtV1 had some excellent books, I still love Slasher.
>>96877218Google have utterly fucked Google Lens, it outright refuses to give me the sauce. It can do it, it just won't. Fucking weaver-tech.Anyway can I have the sauce, please?
>>96876879Strauss is something like 700 years old, maybe they were popular back in his day
>>96876385Real sad state if society when we have people like you who consider twitch streamers to be political figures.
>>96877442I can't, because I have no idea. I nicked it from some VtMB thread on /v/, because I liked the girl.So, sorry, I am about as in the dark as you are.
>>96877635>VtMB thread on /v/Doesn't every single thread devolve into autism? I went to 3 and saw nothing but bait or retarded arguing over politics
>>96875523>>96875606In both cases, you're just taking one look at the foundation of the Changeling games and proceeding to interpret the basic premise in the most negative light possible, without putting any thought into how the game is actually played and how Changeling the Dreaming isn't always about the threat of Banality and how Changeling the Lost isn't always about the threat of Keepers.
>>96877642In general, yes, but the actual VtMB threads on /v/ are legit fun and comfy, with anons just loreposting.Or at least they were, but now VtMB2 happened.
How do all the inhabitants of the World of Darkness celebrate Halloween?
>>96877660In my experience, VTMB threads on /v/ and HTP threads on /co/ are just full of misinformation and people posting their favourite memes and pithy personal takes, with very little grounding in the actual lore."Loreposting" in /v/ and /co/ ends with people coming here thinking that Kuei-Jin are Cainites, that the Garou drove the Triat insane and that Tzimisce are an interstellar alien virus.
>>96877677>Tzimisce are an interstellar alien virus.That one is not technically wrong, per DSotBH. It's an option left to player choices, but it *is* in published material that vicissitude is an otherworldly illness. Hell, there's even the Shadow Crusade, a group of elders that believe it and fight to destroy the infected.
>>96877677>Tzimisce are an interstellar alien virusAnon, I...
>>96877660Ever since vtmbw came out all vtm threads on /v/ turned to shit
>>96877646>Changeling the Dreaming isn't always about the threat of Banality and how Changeling the Lost isn't always about the threat of KeepersSure they can be, but still those are the core concepts of the game, just like WtA can be a dating sim if you want to carve up a piece of the game for that (you gotta pump those Garou Nation numbers up!) but the core concept of the game is that you're a rage fueled beastman whose entire reason to be is to violently disassemble Captain Planet baddies.
>>96877691>>96877696There's a difference between having that as a potential option and treating it like an absolute truth.
>>96877670Changelings have a huge fucking party. The Prince of the Shadow Court is chosen that night from the best amongst the Unseelie, huge bonfires are leaped over, and all manner of debauchery is gotten up to. A property of the Dreaming is that on this night the Mists come out and seep away the memories of what transpired. Changelings awake with only a hazy recollection of events, and occasionally find they have swapped courts with no explanation. It's considered gauche to try and piece together what happened. A lot of infidelity occurs this night.
>>96877792Do you get your panties in a knot over Caine being canon, too? It's stated in plain text that this is the case.
>>96876674>I just now realized that most V5 games I have seen get started on youtube end up abruptly stopping after about 10 or so sessions. Probably because it's so shit no one wants to continue.I don't think it's just V5, I've had the impression that the average life expectancy of any new campaign is no more than a dozen sessions.
>>96877783If you want to be that reductive, everything does boil back down to that core premise, but each game offers lots of avenues of gameplay that are separated from the fundamental premise by several degrees. An example for Changeling the Lost:>I'm on an adventure in the Hedge to save an elfin princess from a dragon!>Why?>In order to win the favour of the elfin king!>Why?>So I can acquire a magical artifact that he has in his possession!>Why?>In order to take it back to my Autumn Court comrades!>Why?>So that we can empower ourselves with the magic of this artifact!>Why?>In order to better defend ourselves against our Keepers!>Ah-hah, so everything in CtL does boil down to being abusive victims in the end. Checkmate.
>>96877677mainly it just seemed like powerscaling talk
>>96877818>>Ah-hah, so everything in CtL does boil down to being abusive victims in the end. Checkmate.Exactly.And whenever you're in the Hedge for the dragon-slaying adventuring derring-do that fills up so good your now whimsical changeling spirit, you will always think about making as little splashes in the water as possible because you don't know if making yourself known will catch the attention of YourVeryOwnNarcissisticAbuser.Keepers are the overarching constant threat of the splat, deal with it. You can even pretend they don't exist and just be whimsical, but that's inviting problem at your freehold's doorsteps.Again, you can have a highly social WtA chronicle about playing spirit tribunal or whatever other change-of-pace you might think of, but you're not going to ever take the Wyrm out of the equation because the desperate struggle against it is the core backbone of the system. Just like you can't take the shortcomings of your own Rage out of the game, because that's literally what the game concept is built upon.
>>96877882>And whenever you're in the Hedge for the dragon-slaying adventuring derring-do that fills up so good your now whimsical changeling spirit, you will always think about making as little splashes in the water as possible because you don't know if making yourself known will catch the attention of YourVeryOwnNarcissisticAbuser.You're over-hyping the Gentry to a level of omniscience that isn't reflected in the actual game. They're more of a threat in the Hedge than in mundane reality, but a changeling isn't going to be cowering in the shadows of the Hedge, scared to use a single contract out of the fear that their Keeper will suddenly descend and snatch them away to a bad ending. That's absurd.>Keepers are the overarching constant threat of the splat, deal with it.Constant, no, overarching, yes. But that doesn't mean that the players have be thinking about them every second of every day. To use the example I gave, unless the changeling really botches one or two particular contracts, or consciously does something that will draw their Keeper's attention, they won't need to think overmuch about the Gentry during that dragon-slaying adventure in the Hedge.>You can even pretend they don't exist and just be whimsical, but that's inviting problem at your freehold's doorsteps.Diminishing the importance of the Gentry and being determined to live their life to its fullest with as little regard for their Keeper as possible is a legitimate way for a changeling to defend itself from their Keeper, that serves as the basis for the Spring Court.The example I gave isn't even a change of pace, Hedge adventures are a standard part of CtL, as is courtly intrigue, as is dealing with fetches, as is kicking bridge-burner butt. All of these things are ultimately tied to the problem of the Gentry, but the victim-abuser relationship between the Lost and their Keeper doesn't factor into those activities and isn't something that the player has to think about during them.
>>96876714Nah, if you want something like that just write about an Imbued.
>>96877930>[...]but a changeling isn't going to be cowering in the shadows of the Hedge.Simply because of numbers and likelyhood. Like keeping a weak password because it is pretty unlikely that you, among millions of logins, will be the one that will be targeted. It is still a constant risk and you'd better set up a password manager or something. And even with the safety-in-number thing, there's shit around that is specifically looking for you. Granted that it is not your buddy at home that is selling you out to save his own ass. You still go to the Hedge/act on your fae nature because walking the line between worlds is exactly what you are now, you couldn't avoid it more than you could avoid to breath. Still, it's a gamble every time.>unless the changeling really botches one or two particular contracts, or consciously does something that will draw their Keeper's attentionThat's all it takes. The simple fact that problems are theoretically just one botch or bad decision away is exactly why I'm saying that as a changeling you're pretty much defined by your relationship with your Keeper and Durance. How you choose to deal with it is your own business, but still it's a central part of who you are and what you choose to do.>[...] Spring Court.Sure. It can even work. That's still at heart just one way of coping, the fact that Spring Courts decide to look the other way on purpose doesn't mean that the Gentry is suddenly not a problem.>but the victim-abuser relationship between the Lost and their Keeper doesn't factor into those activities and isn't something that the player has to think about during them.Each changeling can deal with themselves however they want. Still, the Keepers are the fuel that keeps the narrative going. Without them, it's just "You're whimsical, have fun with it". Which in and of itself could be a valid prompt to play-pretend, but as a game (CtD) it more often than not ends up being kinda aimless and vague because it lacks narrative stakes.
>>96877800What I don't get is how ancient history is supposed to be a mystery in universe but at no point do they bother to make it feel like that.
>>96878327Dreaming comes across as meaningless because the supernatural stuff feels redundant in most scenarios. Just play a mortal game where you are trying to make art or skip the game entirely and write or draw something.
>>96878342Most WW authors are very middling writers. Imo, it got especially worse when they started writing everything in first person narrative format, because then to convey this ancient mystery they have some fresh lick pass it off like gossip everyone knows "but oh that can't be real, right?"
We talked about the best artists for OWoD, but who are the best artists for CofD?
>>96878386CofD doesn't have good art.
>>96878377I get what they are going for, I just find it annoying to come up with other origins that make sense.
>>96878425Onyx Path is way worse about it. Hell their new curseborne only has that & their "narrators" are such annoying bullshit
>>96878397Come on, it's been around for how long now? There's got to be at least a few good pieces here and there.
>>96877670Sin-Eaters have a three-day weekend of Allhallowtide, even if they aren't Catholic. They probably have a Dumb Supper ceremony with their ghost friends.> Dumb Supper (•••••)This powerful ceremony allows the living and the dead to coexist for a short period of time. In addition to the powerful joy of being able to briefly experience the pleasures of the flesh and the company of the living, this ceremony provides a chance for mortals and ghosts to spend a few short hours with one another.
>>96878397>>96878457
>>96878366Roleplaying games, at least in video game form, have been telling people to live life for decades.
>>96875153A shame, lads just brought in a Silver Fang of the purest breed, he’s bound and gagged, would have been a perfect opportunity for her first time. Still, I wish you luck with your EEPS gal We do have couples nights if you’re both interested, by the way
>>96878496The main thing is that no one can afford or knows to live a life together anymore.
>>96877670The Sabbat are throwing their Grand Ball tonight.
>>96878476I love how easy the Loophole on that Contract is to do, too.
Regarding the ongoing argument about Changeling: The big issue is that both splats utterly miss the fucking point of why people find fae stuff interesting in favor of their own social commentary otherkin trauma dumping.You could have each splat as a fragment within a greater whole, but the core ideas of each are themselves insufficient and ultimately uninteresting when set as a monotony.
>>96878594That's certainly an opinion, but I don't see you coming up with a game that's both true to your idea of the mythology AND playable.
>>96878594CtD knows exactly why people like fairies. You personally just don't like fairies, and need an edgelord creepypasta version of them to not feel embarrassed.
>>96878664I am a third party entering this conversation and have not voiced my preference. My preference is whimsy, adventure, oddity, and the bizarre. My preference is Satoshi Kon meets Alice In Wonderland.
>>96878677>whimsy, adventure, oddity, and the bizarreThis is all the stuff people hate CtD for. They can't handle bears with balloons, swearing oaths with friends, and being whatever weird freak is innate to being yourself. It's too genuine for them.
>>96878719Yes, but it also goes too far into the "you are actually part of a secret society and a fairy parasite invaded your soul as an infant" la de da. It's fucking weird. The whole changeling mythos as a basis is weird. Because it was always an excuse for SIDS and mental illness. Then again, the fae folk might've always just been a reference to Nords rolling through and raping everyone.But in the modern context, I hold a disdain for all of that. Changelings should be an oddity. If you want a character with an inherent affinity, I'd shoot for fae-touched. But we're talking an entirely different game now.
>>96878771Fairy parasite really isn't the way the game presents it, since it happens at birth and the person wouldn't have it any other way since that's just who they are. The secret society stuff is dumb though and it's rare that I find anyone who actually likes any of the societies. Unless you're just talking about Changeling society itself, that's just basic WoD.
>>96878594The real issue is that Changeling detractors have this maliciously distorted picture of Changeling in their heads, they already made their minds up and no amount of evidence or argument will convince them otherwise. Arguing is pointless because they're not speaking in good faith.
>>96878800Well, my personal preference would probably be more akin to Labyrinth. You have the world, and then you have the other world, and whimsy is bittersweet and laced with razor-blades and venom that will peel you like a grape and take you for all you have given the opportunity. And while players may get to play as faeries, it's a matter of process and personal narrative rather than the cemented abusive relationship narrative of Lost. And so it isn't about abusive relationships. It's about curiosity, wanderlust, addiction, love-hate, raison d'etre, and dealing with the consequences of giving or being drawn in.
>Changelings, fae? Officer, you're in Martinaise.
>>96878820Again, Lost isn't "about abusive relationships" but what you do for yourself after escaping one and how you work with others to protect each other and live again.
>>96878841Yes, but that ultimately sets the tone and makes it about recovering from an abusive relationship. It makes CtL seem like an extended therapy session.I'd rather have players set at the gate to temptation with regard to all the world lacks. Let them live what is consigned to backstory. Not limited by capricious handlers, but simply a victim of their own frailties and desires.
>>96878820I think the main problem CtD has is that it tries so hard to be inconsequential, and I think it's just from autism on the part of the writers trying to fit it into the WORLD of Darkness. After Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage, there became less of a place for fae to exist in the world and cosmology. Which is laughable, as most people just ignore game lines they don't care about. It becomes a real problem when even Changelings themselves don't remember their adventures into the Dreaming, when nothing of the world of the Fae can have any effect on the mortal world. That chimera that stalks the woods? Mortal children will never have to fear being picked off when walking alone on a dare. And that's not satisfying at all.
>>96878861And that's certainly a preference you can have, but Otherkin: The Glamourbombing was a lot less popular than Lost because it doesn't really go anywhere or have any real driving motive to go do things.
>>96876534>I hope we're out of this V5 limbo soonThe older editions will literally always be there.
>>96878873And that's what I was saying. My preference leans more towards Lost, but I dislike both games.
>>96878873Dreaming was hugely popular among the Larp crowd, and there's been a regrowing interest in the setting as a whole. Lost has fallen off a cliff in terms of interest. It's dead, and in a decade's time it will be forgotten.
>>96878904>Lost has fallen off a cliff in terms of interest. It's dead, and in a decade's time it will be forgotten.Sure buddy, whatever you want to believe.
>>96878820Labyrinth is literally CtL.Some True Fae kidnaps a kid for shit and giggles, and JCon goes into Arcadia (or whatever adjacent Hedge Realm) to get him back, which culminates in facing Jared who's a fickle narcissistic self-centered prick whose entire point is "I will make you wonderful if you accept to adore me". The whole thing is predatory as fuck.Although there is an argument that JCon actually had her durance in the movie and came back as a Fairest.>>96878719It's not that it's goofy. It's that it is aimless.It would be like a D&D game going "Ok guys. You wake up in your homes. What do you do?" and stopping at that because the onus of being adventurous and daring is for the players to project into a void of "Well come up with something". Interesting and creative in theory. Doesn't really work in practice.Also Alice in Wonderland is CtL too.
>>96878920>Although there is an argument that JCon actually had her durance in the movie and came back as a Fairest.It could also be considered a Fae-Touched's journey to fulfill her oath and rescue someone.
>>96878810Does anyone have that image that says something along the lines of "No, not the stupid idea that you're imagining but the cool one that I am"?
>>96878904>Dreaming was hugely popular among the Larp crowdWas it? I've only seen maybe one changeling character at the last big L.A.R.P. that I was in.
>>96878920It's as aimless as CtL is? Which is to say, it's not really. There's enough contention between the courts and the myriad of factions within, and the rift between the nobles and commoners is ready to break out into a second war at the drop of a hat (and it does). The onset of the Long Winter is a reality and no one is equipped for it, plus the Fomorians are waiting somewhere within the Deep Dreaming and sending out their Thallain agents to spread nightmare in the world and further destabalize it. And on top of that is any fae shenanigan you want to drop in to spice up the pot. If your D&D GM introduced a session like that, it's not because there's nothing going on in Greyhawk, it's because he didn't prepare anything.
>>96878920Jareth is a more complex villain than most give him credit for. He was always more a test of character than an actual adversary. Sarah called to him, asked him to do something, and then he did it and at the same time set the stage for her personal redemption. That's why the movie ends like it does. Because it was about growth. It was about a lesson in overcoming temptation in favor of loyalty and duty.Every threat and bastard action on Jareth's part was more about testing character. Even the cruel stuff.
>>96878548>snobby racist for instant loss kinoPentex just keeps winning
>>96878904I think it's an overreaction against the 5th edition, and also a result of Hunter the Parenting, but nowadays I always see people wanting everything to be silly shit all the time, and anything serious is "personal horror" and thus bad.
>>96879038Idk, I think may just be the a V5 problem. HtP seems to have a pretty fair amount of personal horror every now and then though it's clearly taken a backseat in the show. V5 ultimately has an issue where it wants everything to be personal horror and your character has to deal with splatspecific autism but without really enjoying the perks
>>96879010>It's as aimless as CtL is?Since when is Lost aimless like Dreaming in any way?Dreaming has no overarching reason for you to go out and do Fae stuff except "if you don't stay as chuunibyou as possible your fae self dies," and all of that stuff you're talking about is just fluff added in later supplements to try to pad out that premise.In Lost a big part of it isn't just protecting yourself, it's trying to keep Gentry hands off of the unaware people as well, forming what's essentially an all-fae hunter compact to protect your area. There's always a threat, be it Huntsmen, Loyalists, or mortal idiots or other supernaturals nosing in on the potential gains from the fae world without understanding the risks they're taking.
>>96879071None of the shit I said comes from outside the first core book. It's all there, even if some of it isn't as fleshed out as it will become. You're arguing like an autist. To you, Vampire must be aimless because there's no big monster you have to be the reactionary force against.
>>96879089Didn't even the first vampire source book include Ante's and the Sabbat, vampire hunter spooks, and werewolves?
>>96879021When has Pentex ever lost? We're constantly expanding our reach. Bringing luxury to your doorstep, wherever you might be
>>96879010Sure. If you go dig into the DM notes, you'll find that a neighboring kingdom has a doppleganger infiltrating the grown at the behest of an hidden cult. On a remote island, a dragon is hoarding knowledge in order to achieve immortality. The guilds of assassins is looking for a newborn, allegedly a direct progeny of the god of death, who is foretold to become death incarnate and they want to bring them into their fold.Very compelling stuff if you ever ended up interacting with it. Too bad the entire game hinges on that "You're in your home. You're a little bored. What do you do" and if that premise loses you as aimless, tough shit it's your fault.As >>96879071 said, it's not that CtD doesn't have potential. It's that it doesn't have any established drive.
>>96879164>>96879164>>96879164
>>96878820CtL can be saved from your obsession with abuse trauma fixation with one simple trick. Changelings dont always get kidnapped to be abused but to be surrogate children of the Fae. So you can be a faerie princess or a horned hound bounty hunter or a enslaved troll or whatever. Takes hardly any effort to change it.
>>96879012NTA but yeah, Jareth is 100% just trying to fulfill her desires, the way a faerie prince would, & he's do bewitched by her & finds her just as contradictory & capricious as we see the fae.>what do you mean you want your brother back? You told me to take him!If anything, the trials & tribulations he sends her, are less about stopping her & more about him trying to understand her & him flirting with her, but in the end it doesnt matter, he has no power over her at all.
