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No. What I enjoy the most in tabletop wargames is the small narrative hooks, memorable moments that any real tabletop enjoyer can talk about endlessly. A tactical squad gunning down many times their own number. A sergeant standing his ground in a hopeless challenge before being slain. Or a dreadnought overloading its weapons, and exploding itself through a string of misfortune. LIgma doesn't have that, when AT somehow does (probably thanks to how detailed the titan movement, weapons and systems are, gives them some personality)
And the game is also trash, and no one here plays it, that doesn't help either.

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>>97131536
>Infantry aren't broken
Tale as old as time.

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>>97131467
Yes, I want to drive fellbades through buildings

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What's a good loadout for tactical veterans? I figured I'd stick either a lascannon or plasma cannon in the squad since I've got a cool bit for either, but for the rest what?

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DG 3k points. How we looking? Tried to go for a weapon thematic list that can hopefully still function ok and has answers for some things:


Mortarion [425 Point(s)]
3x Deathshroud [45 Point(s)]
Land Raider Carrier [265 Point(s)]

Calas Typhon [200 Point(s)]
3x Deathshroud [45 Point(s)]

1x Centurion with Jump Pack [120 Point(s)]: Jump Pack, Power scythe, Bolter
5x Veteran Assault Squad [225 Point(s)]:
1x Veteran Sergeant with Alchem caster, Power scythe
4x Veteran Legionary: Alchem caster, Thunder hammer

Warmonger [135 Point(s)]: Bolter, Alchem caster
10x Mortus Poisoner Squad [160 Point(s)]: Rad grenades, Phosphex bombs, Alchem flamer

Siege Breaker [115 Point(s)]: Bolt pistol, Thunder hammer
2x Rapier Battery [150 Point(s)]: 2x Rapier Crew [75 Point(s)]
4x Legionary
2x Rapier Carrier (Quad Launcher - (Frag) (Shatter) (Phosphex) (Phosphex Canister Shot)

7x Heavy Support Squad [245 Point(s)]: Lascannons

10x Heavy Support Squad [200 Point(s)]: Heavy bolters

5x Grave Warden Terminator Squad [225 Point(s)]:
Assault grenade launchers, Power fists

12x Despoiler Squad [135 Point(s)]:
1x Sergeant: Charnabal sabre
1x Legionary: Nuncio-vox
10x Legionary

10x Tactical Squad [110 Point(s)]:
1x Sergeant
1x Legionary: Nuncio-vox
8x Legionary


Man 3000 points goes way quicker than I'd have thought, wasn't able to do everything I'd have liked. 3000 on the nose.

TOTAL LIGGER DEATH

>>97131582
Depends on what you want them to do. But wouldn't give them lascannons, multi-meltas are much better for adding a little tank/terminator killing power now.

>>97131582
I run mine with volkite charges, a flamer, and a rotor cannon (and a thunder hammer on the champion). Stick them in a rhino, send them onto objectives to brawl it out with other line units.

>>97131582
I give mine a mix of shotguns, heavy flamers, and combi gravs for a status pummeler unit to run up with my gal vorbak, but I've also seen people running with all combi bolters, all volkite chargers (SOH), and a mix of shotguns, combi-meltas, and meltaguns in a termite, and all seemed to perform pretty well for the cost. The idea of a long range squad seems interesting for backline objective camping, but IMO it's kind of a waste of them being able to compress essentially all the wounds, attacks, and damage potential of a 20 man tac squad into a 10 man even before their combi and special and heavy weapon options, so they're best leaping out of rhino, drop pod or termite, or maybe even dreadclaw

>>97131467
>TQ
From a gameplay perspective, absolutely. From a hobbying perspective, absolutely not. There's little I'd rather do less than paint a couple hundred millimetres-high models.

>>97131536
I think Epic scale games do work from the (objectively correct)narrative-first perspective, but really only as part of a "combined arms" campaign where most of your time is spent at the ZM/small-army 30K/40K level, achieving objectives that influence occasional large Epic battles which are less clunky to play than very very big 30K/40K games. As an experience on its own though I've never really "got it" - yeah sure it's a bit more intellectual than the mainline games, but so are AT and BFG and those are formatted in a way that allows you to have that narrative and personality despite the ostensibly gigantic scale because the ships and titans can each have their individual histories and personalities in ways that one of six identical tiny Tactical squads just don't.

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MORE centurions!

>>97132008
you absolute mad lad

>>97132008
What world are these guys fighting on to have such lush grass and flowers? A fucking pleasure world?

>>97132008
oh my god i didn't know it was you thank you blackshield anon

>>97132147
<my dudes> are stranded on an agri/farming world that's also blocking access to the manufacturing/mining system it feeds.

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Soon

>>97132386
No.

>>97132306
kino

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Why did they lean so hard into mk6 and then just fuck off with any other upgrades

>>97132452
its beakies man

>>97132469
Half of them aren't even actually beakies

>>97132452
Because after shit sales they decided to abandon resin entirely

>>97132452
What >>97132485 said.
DA and DG look like MkII
IW, IF, NL and IH look like MkIV
And WE and SoH look like MkV.

>>97132386
I'd buy a plastic unit of these just to paint they're pretty cool, better than the regular bikes

>>97132452
Most of them are multi purpose

>>97132452
Well with MKIII they made no sales so they wouldn't bother making upgrades for it, and MKII is pretty much exclusively for irontards

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>>97132559
the real question is how the fuck every Necromunda faction gets plastic upgrade kits while HH legion kits are still made in resin and are very stingy with bits.

Does Necromunda sell better than the HH, or it's the designers favourite setting?

>>97132601
Necromunda stuff is meant to be used for the other settings too. 40k has nearly squatted non-primaris.

>>97132601
Necromunda has a very dedicated fanbase and they can get away with having a bunch of upgrades and extra bits since you only need one for your gang. Buying 20 upgrades for an army is a lot worse than 2 or 3 for the gangs you play

>>97132618
Very little in necromunda would be in any way usable for marines in 40k so that makes no sense, this is just you being mad at primaris still

>>97132618
Necromunda barely fits anything in 40k. Not even any of the kill teams really line up properly.

>>97132635
>Marines
I don't think necro even has them but I could be wrong. Gangers and whatevers can be used for kitbashing guard, cultists, etc in 40k, have near equivalents in militia for HH and I've even seen some conversions for AoS. Compare this to our FW needle-limbed legion kits that don't fit with the new hotness and are limited to marines.
>primaris
I must have touched a nerve there.

>>97132452
I kinda want a set of those shitty un-canon'd SW heads

>>97132601
>Does Necromunda sell better than the HH, or it's the designers favourite setting?
Yes

>>97132601
Necromunda is apparently a lot of old heads at GW's favourite thing, so they put their absolute heart into it.

>>97132664
You're the retard that brought up primaris when it had literally nothing to do with anything we or yourself were talking about

>>97132714
So I did touch a nerve.

>>97132723
If that's what you call pointing out your stupidity

>>97132732
Nah saying that necro has the advantage of a bigger share of the market considering all they do is 40k humans compared to absurdly priced non-primaris marine bits that aren't even in scale anymore with either system that has marines is hardly retarded. You on the other hand seem to be fuming. Let me spell it out then
PRIMARIS
ARE
SHIT

>>97132452
After MKIII why would you WANT them to do more?

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>>97132452
was the SW head set the shortest lived and quickest replaced mini/set ever? hell, the only other one I can think of is IF tartaros praetor.

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>>97132601
>Mfw negromunda gets nemesis bolters before 30k

>>97132762
nta, but you're a double retard.
Necromunda sales are completely unrelated to 40k. Primaris have nothing to do with it, except as further proof of the favourism for Necromunda, since primaris chapter upgrade kits are lame and sparse as fuck compared to all the stuff gangs get.
There's more Necromunda gang kits than HH infantry, ffs

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>>97132880
It's not a bolter

>>97132900
I mean that's what space marine sniper rifles are called now. Scout Marines used to wield "sniper rifles", and now they wield "nemesis boltguns"

>>97132925
The funny part is that they had long las rifles and regular sniper rifles but now they get special boltguns like everyone else.

>>97132601
They said they wanted to start remaking legion specific units in plastic in the roadmap livestream last year, sucks that they're not doing it faster but they will do it.
FW resin looks like its being phased out too, it's been months since they last released any resin kits

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>>97131467
>TQ
I can't bring myself to like the new fellblade because of the fucking doors despite the fact that I've been waiting for ligma sized fellblades since the game was announced. I don't like the other changes either but a superheavy having rhino doors because in their infinite wisdom GW decided to stop selling legion land raider doors pisses me off to no end.

>>97132995
What gets me is the stupid new muzzle break with the weird front bit that isnt wholly round. But it really doesn’t matter on the front of what should be a magnetic accelerator anyway so why do I even care… wait. Because the old muzzle break looked fine and this one is just unnecessary busy so someone can edge highlight it more. (Mumble grumble) Most of the tanks have looked worse since the 2006 remake of the guard line where the designers took perfect good tanks and made them more whimsical and detailed by removing modeling options, making the tank worse in armor terms an making the turrets fucking retarded. “Lets make the turret an ellipsis thats a cool shape! No one likes boring flat armor panels anyway, also who cares if the turret has proper crew space and room for the gun breech? Let’s add som stupid looking extra weapon options to the sprue instead!” This was only slightly rectified with the solar aux tanks, slightly as solar aux russes cant have sponsons and so are far less useful as an assault tank as they can’t multi-role against enemy infantry and tote around a big gun.

>>97132995
> Had to wait until GW made le plastic model to get one
Lmao image not having access to the epic STL giga drive.

>>97133205
>solar aux russes cant have sponsons and so are far less useful as an assault tank as they can’t multi-role against enemy infantry and tote around a big gun.
Fr why can't they? As in, you should always take the sponson guns if you're able, so there must be a reason why they don't want you to take them.
Meanwhile, Predators are not forced to always take at least a couple heavy bolters, right? I was used to it being the other way around

1. If pinning causes a cool check at the end of that turn's morale phase, then it doesn't matter if I attack with multiple pinning units or just a single one, right?
As in, it would be pointless to give shrapnel bolters to a tactical unit when their Rhino also has a shrapnel bolter, right?
2. Stun also causes a Cool test at the end of that turn's morale phase. So, if I shoot both a Stun 1 havoc launcher and a Pinning 0 shrapnel bolter, I do two tests, one for every different status, right?
The rules have a lot of words to still not specify what happens when I don't test rules in a void.

>>97133255
I already have the files, I just can't be arsed to fix my printer and my friends have FDM printers.
>>97133205
FW had a more realistic approach to minis but in the last 6-7 years it's like they fired everyone and had the marketing people guide randos from start to finish while they sculpt.

>>97132900
The scope looks very good on a tigrus bolter though so it makes for a good converting piece

>>97133326
>FW had a more realistic approach to minis
Their painting was very realistic their designs were still bound by 40k's constraints i.e. not realistic or practical but with visible design cues

>>97133205
The biggest problem with the new fellblade is the turret pan being so steep so the stowage and gunner's cupola stick out too much.

>>97133311
Yes to both. Remember that if you also panic the same unit, it'll clear any existing statuses and cancel other status checks this turn (panic always goes first)

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Speaking of the full sized fellblade: how does the demolisher cannon fit into it? Can you lift it out easily for switching to a glaive, or is it locked in?

>>97131589
>Mortarion AND Typhon
>HUGE jump pack point sink
>1 (one) singular tactical squad.

Anon, I mean this in the most sincere way possible, but fuck off

>>97133355
Their sculpts were 10 times more realistic compared to 40k, compare the 40k exterminator and the vraks one. Not realistic like a scale model of a ww2 tank is but it feels like the sculptor asked himself questions like how will the autocannons fit into the turret or why doesn't the turret come with a coaxial gun.

>>97133388
Oh I didn't think of the turrets. I was mostly thinking of the mecharius.
I meant what I said but I'll not hear a word against the Crassus.

>>97132995
Why wouldnt it have rhino pattern doors? Its not an assault vehicle, it doesent have a transport capacity even. Why wouldnt the Fellblade use a pattern of door that is - extrapolating from the features of a rhino - cheap, simple, durable and efficient?

>>97133441
Also why wouldn't it have a pattern of door that offers protection from incoming fire in case a crew needs to bail out

>>97133311
Remember that for pinning you need to wound. Are you confident your rhino (four s4 shots) will get a wounding hit in?

Is it me or does the falchion kinda suck donkey dick? Its the "anti tank" superheavy but the fellbade feels arguably better (due to how accurate the accelerator autocannon is vs the big tanks, and thanks to having an additional demolisher cannon for that D6 goodness)

Its a shame because the falchion looks gorgeous, but for essentially being a big gun with wheels, it doesent hit as hard as you would expect.

>>97133441
Because rhinos if rhinos had armour as thick as a fellblade this would have been a very different setting. As it is it's a dangerous weak point in it's sides. If you compare it to the old doors those don't even have outside hinges and are just slabs of metal when seen from the outside while the new ones might get blown open bypassing the paper thin armour they offer. This stuff alone justifies them over the small cover they would offer if the entire crew tried to escape the wreck. It's a marketing choice because they sell rhino legion doors and not land raider ones anymore not a logic one anyways.

>>97133501
I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic

>>97133520
Point them out then.

>>97133501
I would assume it is not LITERALLY a rhino door anon. They didnt just cut the doors of some deimos rhino out there and staple them on. Its going to be using the same materials as the rest of the fellbade, and just look similar because its some sort of standard pattern access hatch design thats good enough for its purpose (the doors to the driving compartment of a tank.

A land raider on the other hand, is an assault vehicle, its doors are clearly more advanced and designed for fast disembarking actions. But you dont need that on a tank which just has a basic crew,.

>If you compare it to the old doors those don't even have outside hinges and are just slabs of metal
If it is anything like the Deimos doors (and we are assuming it is), then behind those outer doors there is a second door, one that doesent have hinges.

But also: The fellblade DOES have more weaknesses than a land raider, its not a 14/14/14 box. Its side armor 13 and rear armor 12. It having more exploitable openings than a land raider (an armored box) would actually make some sense.

>cover
I dont think the cover argument is very good, no one would design a tank around what it does when you have to evacuate the flaming wreck. Especially not a superheavy.

>>97133565
Also, remember the function of the given tanks. A land raiders job is as an armored spearhead, it drives into the teeth of the enemy, gets surrounded on all sides, keeps going, disembarks troops where needed (typically elites for some sort of decapitation strike or shock assault).

A fellblade, falchion or glaive on the other hand arent intended to do that. If you have your fellblade in the middle of enemy infantry you fucked up and are doing it wrong. Theyre heavy tanks with very big (long range) guns intended to deal heavy damage from afar). How resistant your fellblade is to someone with a chainfist probably wasnt very high on anyones mind because for someone to get a chainfist to your fellblade implies a great many things have already went wrong.

>3.0

>>97133565
>>97133619
I never wrote about it being a different material or not having another set of doors on the inside. There is just no way this retcon into the fellblade using this new design over the old one makes any sense. This thing is a fire magnet, you would want it to be as survivable as possible and that's what the LR doors are, again they present a slab of metal at the enemy rather than moving parts like hinges. Even with a second door behind it makes no sense to choose something that might get part of it's armour blown off and present an even thinner part to the enemy.
>stats
Going by 1.0 stats the fellblade also has 12 HP compared to the 4 HP LRs normally get and it resists the explodes rolls.
>wreck
It was a reply to this >>97133451 and referring to the rhino outer doors opening up. They don't provide much cover and you wouldn't want to find yourself in that situation in the first place.
>function
They are going to be fire magnets even at range, the enemy isn't going to sit doing nothing while it gets fired at.

>>97133699
>you would want it to be as survivable as possible and that's what the LR doors are
The LR doors are a more complex design made to allow for rapid disembarking actions. Utterly unnecessary on a tank with no transport capacity and just a way to make big, expensive and difficult to maintain tanks even more expensive and difficult to maintain.

>Going by 1.0 stats the fellblade also has 12 HP compared to the 4 HP LRs normally get and it resists the explodes rolls.
Yes, its bigger and bulkier and more durable overalll. But it isnt as "well rounded" in terms of having no weak spots (which is also what rear armor represents, its why melee targets that).

>and you wouldn't want to find yourself in that situation in the first place.
Youre not wrong. But you know what other situation you wouldnt want to find yourself in? Melee, which is basically the only situation where the difference in how secure a door/access hatch is would come into play (assuming there is one). Even if you agree with the assertion that the deimos pattern doors are less secure/durable, the situation where that weakness would be exploited is one where the tank is already essentially fucked regardless.

>They are going to be fire magnets even at range
Where the difference in door design - even IF you assume that the LR pattern doors are somehow "more durable by design" (which is itself a questionable argument) - does not matter. Yea, theyre going to be firing magnets at range, thats why theyre front armor 14.

>>97133368
Awright yeee
>>97133455
>for pinning you need to wound
To wound, but not necessarily an unsaved wound. But yeah I was thinking a single shrapnel bolter on a Rhino, then the other pintle mount would be a havoc launcher.
Hmm I guess I can remove the shrapnel bolters from the unit, and upgrade the rhino's shrapnel bolter to a full shrapnel heavy bolter cannon

>>97133751
>To wound, but not necessarily an unsaved wound.
Yea, but with only four shots even that is not entirely guaranteed, which is what I was trying to get at.
if you have only a single shrapnel bolter it gets even "worse", because now you arent even getting that wound "on average", 2 shots, wound on 4s, hitting on 3s = 2/3 of a wound done (when you want one). So its even less reliable.

>and upgrade the rhino's shrapnel bolter to a full shrapnel heavy bolter cannon
That could do it. Those are the heavy bolter equivalent right? So 4 shots, s5? That seems pretty safe for getting at least one wound in.

Although I think you might just want shrapnel bolters anyways. You cant "chain pin" a single unit, but you can pin multiple units. You might want to fire the bolters are one group of dudes, then use the rhino to threaten a status on another unit entirely. The more checks the enemy makes the more checks hes going to fail, and the more status applications you have the more checks the enemy is going to be making.

Just speaking from experiencing, a knight was much scarier than a fellblade, and glancing to death is a viable strat vs fellblades compared to kratoses

>>97133742
>unnecessary and expensive
The price of 2 expensive doors can't be compared to the price of having the huge, expensive and complex tank get destroyed more often. Land raiders were exploration vehicles during the dark age anyways and not assault ones, the fellblade has proteus doors.
>stats
That makes sense but this still doesn't warrant the thing having rhino doors, the stats were made when it had LR doors. I mean it's not like GW will give it worse stats now that it has different doors.
>melee
I think those can still get blown off by ranged fire like rapier las or whatever militia/alien technology gets thrown at it. I agree that if the thing gets into melee it's a pile of scrap metal but 1.0's special rules and I guess one of the new ligma formations gave it a little bit it can use to forestall the inevitable.
>doors and front armour
I think the LR one is the better design of the 2 and I've already bored you enough with the why I think it's a better one.
If it gets engaged on two different sides by a couple of squads it's forced to show it's side armour to at least one of them. If you consider how long the front lines are in the fluff this will come up a lot more when a unit is so noticeable.

>>97133935
Genuinely, I was on the side that the rhino doors looked dumb but your arguments are so schizophrenic that they've changed my mind and made me realize it makes more sense to use the rhino doors.

>>97133960
I'm sure you were.

>>97133935
>The price of 2 expensive doors can't be compared to the price of having the huge, expensive and complex tank get destroyed more often.
It can, because "this thing dies 0.1% less but is 5% more difficult to build and maintain" is not a good trade.
>Land raiders were exploration vehicles during the dark age anyways and not assault ones
And yet they are assault vehicles in the heresy. It doesent matter if the baneblade was a DAOT tractor or whatever, it isnt one any more.
>I think those can still get blown off by ranged fire like rapier las or whatever militia/alien technology gets thrown at it.
If a shot hits them "side on" and damages them because they protrude slightly? That does little to impair the tank's overall fighting power and is essentially superficial harm. If the shot hits them "front on" then there is no reason to assume the other style of door would have any better effect, considering there is no reason to believe those doors are made of a different material.
The only instance where your argument regarding the other style of door being more secure holds some water is melee, where it looks (so its still not MUCH water, purely visual speculation) more resistant to enemy attempts to pry it open or attack it.
>If it gets engaged on two different sides by a couple of squads
Yes, youre right! But thats the thing anon, it SHOULDNT be doing that. A fellblade is a superheavy tank, it should not be going around on its own in the thick of the enemy. It should be sitting far back using the range of its BIG guns and be escorted by loads of lighter vehicles and its own screens of protective infantry.

A slow, expensive, and heavy tank being caught out like that at those distances is already a sign that "things went wrong". Its not their intended mode of operations. If your opponent is bringing melta guns to bear on the weak points of your superheavy you fucked up and the design of the vehicle is less relevant than you being a moron.

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A fellblade shouldn't have doors at all because it's based on a baneblade, but FW sculptors were retarded and didn't know what to put over where the hatch where the second set of sponsons were supposed to go so they just slapped in doors to fill the space and sell more product to helpless goyim.

>>97133996
Also, regarding the "exposed side armor" thing. Once again, given there is no reason to assume a weaker material composition, there is no reason to assume those doors would be any more vulnerable to the sorts of heavy firepower you would use on a tank. A lascannon isnt going to care whether your door has hinges or not.

The situation where the design flaws of the rhino door would matter (because sure, exposed hinges ARE a vulnerability compared to not having them, no matter how minor a difference it would really make) would be one where you take very lucky or targeted fire that damages the hinges/blows those doors out, and then an opponent gets close enough to exploit that vulnerability (probably through some sort of melee assault). That is not a particularly likely scenario, you would essentially need someone in a fellblade that fell under enemy fire and took damage (and is presumably aware of that damage) to then go driving it into the enemy without any cover (or to be overwhelmed).

And in that situation, the door is not going to be a saving grace whether its there or not. Tanks do not - generally - fare well when the enemy starts climbing over them with melta bombs, grenades and chainfists.

>>97134037
God baneblades are ugly.

>>97133556
What talking to you requires homework? Fuck off. Suffer your own retardation.

>>97134044
The ADVANTAGE of the design, however, is production. Its a standard design shared by the most rugged and reliable vehicle in the marine arsenal, its clearly easy to produce and maintain that style of door, it makes an incredibly expensive model of tank slightly less of a logistical nightmare.

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>>97133996
>It can, because "this thing dies 0.1% less but is 5% more difficult to build and maintain" is not a good trade.
There is no way a couple of doors are even 0.1% of a tank with autoloaders, a pair of accelerator cannons, advanced AI, arc reactors and an alloy that I don't think has been mentioned being used for anything else. I think a couple of doors are just a drop into an ocean not to mention that STC designs are meant to be incredibly easy to reproduce and mantain, to the point where colonist in the middle of nowhere can build the things.
>And yet they are assault vehicles in the heresy. It doesent matter if the baneblade was a DAOT tractor or whatever, it isnt one any more.
They are assault vehicles because they carry troops, the proteus, which is the first design to chronologically have those doors as far as we know, is an exploration vehicle for colonists. There is nothing about the door that make it an "assault" door nor is the actual vehicle difficult to produce in 30k. This is to the point that one of the first LR designs post proteus was converting it into an assault vehicle by giving it an assault ramp. There are still a lot of old LRs still around and more were being produced which is why militia gets them in all of the editions.
>If a shot hits them "side on" and damages them because they protrude slightly?
If several shots land on the hinges the doors will get blown away and expose the inner sets of doors. If several shots land on the LR doors they won't find much to destroy on the outside and will need more power to directly punch through rather than aim at the hinges like in the case of the rhino doors.

>>97134343
>That does little to impair the tank's overall fighting power and is essentially superficial harm
If several shots that would normally be survivable open a window the size of 2-3 marines on the side of one of your most expensive and advanced tanks I'm not sure I would call it superficial harm.
>material
Again, I'm not saying either door is a different material than the rest of the tank.
>A fellblade is a superheavy tank, it should not be going around on its own in the thick of the enemy
I never said it was alone but it's a huge target and most certainly it will be picked out, escorting troops or not. Unless you have tacticals shielding every inch of it with their body there is no reason enemy anti-tank units won't try to hit it while getting covered by the troops they would be supporting. In a perfect world the fellblade would follow all of the survivability onion things like don't be there, don't be seen, etc.. but the people who made it knew it would be hit a lot so they gave it armour, armour in a specific alloy that's quite rare from what we know. It would have really brought down the cost making it in ceramite or other more common materials.
>hinges
I agree that this something that might happen some rare times but again it's when compared to something that won't happen with the original doors. Again, don't care about melee because doors or not no tank wants to be in melee fictional or otherwise.

>>97134037
>fellblade is based on a baneblade

it really isn't, it has a different side profile, the tracks are longer, the engine block is completely different, the turrets are completely different, the sponsons are completely different

this isn't a t55 t72 situation, it's more like you're looking at the Leopard 2 and the Abrams, both do substantially the same job but they're completely different lineages with very little direct borrowing

>>97132925
It's still called a bolt sniper rifle

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DEATHBOXES
HOMEWRECKERS
A ROLLING DEATHTRAP
A STUDY IN SELF-HARM

>>97134402
Is this the one where the crew dies being boiled, electrocuted and drowning at the same time?

Any Anons here know some good metal beads that would be great for bonding Studs on a contemptor Dreadnought? I found some by Army Painter they uses for mixing balls, but there's were 5.5mm and seemed far too big for what I want to use them for.

>>97134415
Pretty sure that's from Warhawk. Crew actually makes it out alive, amazingly enough. Even carries Jaghatai's body away for extraction.

>>97134343
>There is no way a couple of doors are even 0.1% of a tank
Assault tank doors arent cheap to build and install or marines would have more assault vehicles.

>not to mention that STC designs are meant to be incredibly easy to reproduce and maintain
So much so that half the space marine vehicles in the book are being mothballed due to logistical issues and impracticality, and the only survivors are going to be the Vindicator, Rhino, Predator and Land Raider (all of them in generally worse variants).

Marine tanks are not easy to build and maintain or there would be more of them.

>There is nothing about the door that make it an "assault" door
Except for them making the Land Raider an Assault Vehicle (the special rule). The special rule that represents a vehicle being more suited to quick embarkation and disembarkation. The one that lets you charge from tanks.

>There are still a lot of old LRs still around
Yes, there are supplies and reserves of old shit. That is not the same as "this shit is actually really easy to build and maintain". Land raiders are EASIER to build and maintain and a spartan or kratos, but they are still very expensive and intricate vehicles. Which is why they're super rare by the 41st millennium despite being essentially indestructible boxes.

>If several shots that would normally be survivable open a window the size of 2-3 marines on the side of one of your most expensive and advanced tanks I'm not sure I would call it superficial harm.
Those shots are survivable in either case, the tank operates just fine if a lascannot hits the door axle.
>be survivable open a window the size of 2-3 marines on the side of one of your most expensive and advanced tanks
Onto another set of doors. How scandalous. This isnt a video game where theres just a big glowing thing behind there you can now shoot with bolters for massive damage. Behind the first tank door there is a second tank door.

>>97134439
Look up metal ball bearings, you should be able to get them in basically any size

>>97134402
And this is before the sponsons

>>97134484
>>97134349
You will still need to fire on that door with anti-tank weapons, and those weapons would have pierced that door (if they are up to the task) whether or not it was the hinged or non-hinged design.

>I'm not saying either door is a different material than the rest of the tank.
I know. But your argument doesent work unless you assume it.

>there is no reason enemy anti-tank units won't try to hit it
If the enemy Sicaran Venator hits your fellblade on the access hatch, whether or not the first layer of doors is there does not matter. Enemy anti-tank units possess weapons designed to punch through the fellblades hull, generally at its thickest. You would need to pull off some incredibly contrived things to create a situation where "the other deimos patter doors were damaged/destroyed" (in a way that wouldn't have also destroyed the LR pattern doors, because this would require heavy ordnance either way), and then that actually matters to the enemy heavy weapons.

>Again, don't care about melee because doors or not, no tank wants to be in melee, fictional or otherwise.
Melee is the only instance where it matters. Do you think a laser destroyer cares whether that door is there or not? Lascannons? Multi-meltas or vindicator cannons? No. Those weapons would have the same effect on either door design, whatever minuscule difference may be made in the once-in-a-blue-moon eventuality of the hinges being damaged previously is utterly inconsequential.

The instance where that matters is against infantry, where the greater purchase and space gives them more room to try and brute force their way in where they otherwise may not have been able to using grenades, shaped charges and powered weapons.

>>97134526
The situation you would need is essentially as follows:
>The deimos pattern doors are destroyed by very precise or lucky frontal fire (since side-on fire to the doors that would accomplish damage to the doors would do so in either case - the only difference is the slight protrusion of the deimos pattern doors as a frontal profile)
>This frontal fire has to be with something heavy enough to inflict material damage onto the fellblade, meaning an anti-tank weapon
>This then causes the deimos pattern doors to fall off/open/be weakened, which leaves the secondary doors more vulnerable
>This is then exploited by very precise enemy fire using anti tank weapons (because it would still need to be heavy weaponry), but of a caliber which would have normally fallen just short of doing damage to the main vehicle (or it would have had the same effect whether or not the outer doors were there or not)
>Due to the precision (and angles) required this would likely have to be at very close distance (especially in relative terms) and from very specific positions

You would essentially need the one in a million frontal shot into a follow-up missile launcher ambush at close distances, which would have to be very well planned to actually exploit the "opening" created by the one in a million frontal shot. Its such a specific scenario that over the Horus Heresy you would have been able to count the number of times it would have been even close to that.

>>97134487
Well I can quite easily do that. I guess I should rephrase my question. Does anyone know a ball bearing size that would look reasonable enough as Contemptor Dreadnought bonding studs? Specifically for the lower legs.

>>97134484
>assault doors
Good thing those aren't assault doors then.
>book are being mothballed due to logistical issues and impracticality
This is a militia tank, barely even that, it got mothballed because much better vehicles were made. Vehicles actually meant to assault things.
>Assault Vehicle (the special rule)
The one which has never been on the proteus explorator in hh to my knowledge.
>That is not the same as "this shit is actually really easy to build and maintain".
It comes from an STC, it by definition is. Also it's just the door and not the entire tank anyways.
> Behind the first tank door there is a second tank door.
It would be better to not scatter armour to the wind and not getting doors blown off at all. Which again wouldn't be a thing with the proteus doors.
>This isnt a video game where theres just a big glowing thing behind there you can now shoot with bolters for massive damage.
It's a mathematical thing, if you remove an amount from a number you end up with a smaller number and in this case it's armour thickness. If we are generous and assume that the inside door is as much armoured as the outer one then it's half the armour on that point getting blown off for no apparent reason other than to make a tank cheaper which again isn't necessarily true.
>But your argument doesent work unless you assume it.
This makes absolutely no sense, one design hangs by 4 outside things and the other doesn't, it could be made with indistructablytronium on the rhino and the door on the land raider could be held up by glue made up of spit and cum this would have no influence on how either design gets used in the fellblade.

>>97134718
>You would need to pull off some incredibly contrived things to create a situation where "the other deimos patter doors were damaged/destroyed" (in a way that wouldn't have also destroyed the LR pattern doors, because this would require heavy ordnance either way)
With how many things a fellblade gets fired at with in both fluff and game would I? Superheavies are notoriously easy to pick out from the crowd in-setting to the point that in certain editions of epic they are the only direct target that isn't predetermined that spaceships can fire at. At 28mm there were plenty of times when the there were special rules which allowed squads to ignore the closest enemy to fire at superheavies. And again it doesn't have to be from the front.
>Do you think a laser destroyer cares whether that door is there or not?
It does for the fellblade considering it's armour is made out of an incredibly resistent alloy compared to other imperial vehicles.

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>>97134718
>Good thing those aren't assault doors then.
They are if theyre LR doors.

>it got mothballed because much better vehicles were made
But they werent, the standard superheavy of the 41st millenium is the Baneblade. The marine baneblade chassis tanks werent dropped because they were worse than the guard alternatives that replaced them - those tanks essentially all exist already - they were dropped because they were too expensive to build and maintain.

>it comes from an STC, it by definition is.
And yet it objectively is not. Theres a reason land raiders end up as treasured chapter relics by 40k.

(nearly?) all imperial tech is STC in origin, and yet a good portion of it is temperamental, hard to replace, and difficult to maintain.

> it's half the armour on that point
Well, technically it would be as much armor, just a 2nd layer of it. In either case however, it would still be a thing that requires dedicated anti tank weaponry to damage or penetrate, the same anti-tank weaponry that would pierce a the land raider door design.

>which again isn't necessarily true.
If it wasnt Rhinos wound be assault vehicles with fancy LR doors.

>>97134725
>And again it doesn't have to be from the front.
Side shots that would damage the doors would damage the "LR" doors too. That door isnt any more durable, if they get hit with a lascannon both of them will be damaged.

Also
>theyre so BIG, you could just concentrate all firepower on that door from far away
The Fellblade is slightly bigger than a Kratos or Spartan. These are not titans, you arent picking out their door any more than you are the door on a rhino or land raider. And if you COULD do it, then the pattern of door once again does not matter, because those big tank guns will destroy the LR pattern door too, because both doors are equally resistant to damage - one simply protrudes slightly outwards.

>>97134725
>It does for the fellblade considering it's armour is made out of an incredibly resistent alloy compared to other imperial vehicles.
It is side armor 13. It is less durable than a land raider or kratos or spartan.

A laser destroyer or any other heavy ordnance will not care if there is a little bit more door than there was otherwise. Especially if those weapons are concentrating fire on the same point of impact (like the door)

>>97134872
>They are if theyre LR doors.
Where are the rules for the proteus having assault doors then? It's not an assault vehicle and the background fluff supports that too.
>But they werent[...]
I was talking about the proteus. The fellblade wasn't mothballed because the land raider doors made it too expensive. Arguably it wasn't even mothballed either considering it still gets made in 40k, in small numbers but with the cap of 1 milion marines and 1000 per chapter it's not like they can support many super-heavy tanks.
>Theres a reason land raiders end up as treasured chapter relics by 40k.
Their doors are too expensive? The proteus isn't used anymore because it was meant to be piloted by humans, couldn't carry terminators, and lacked assault doors. That's the fluff, better things got made and few people were interested enough on keeping an older less useful variant if they even had a copy of the STC around.
>Tech
Most tech suffers from the "GW is a company that sells miniature first and fluff second" disease which means that all advanced stuff are rare relics that might disappear for years and those that know how to build and mantain them will keep that secret before GW decides to sell more models and says "someone out there has started production again". Usually after the imperial armour books. Tech in 40k follows no natural logic by now.
>Well, technically it would be as much armor, just a 2nd layer of it.
I have two apples in my left hand, I throw an apple away and I am left with a single apple. I have two apples in my right hand, I throw none away. Can you guess which hand has more apples.

>>97135101
>rhinos
Rhinos are meant to avoid the heavier fire and ferry troops. Land raiders are meant to brave it and move forward not necessarily while carrying troops. Fellblades are meant to survive it and fire back.
>That door isnt any more durable
It doesn't have to be when it the rhino one can be shot off it's hinges and this one can't. It's already a better choice.
>The Fellblade is slightly bigger than a Kratos or Spartan.
Ships can fire from orbit into baneblades. Now with that kind of weapon the door doesn't matter but again superheavies like the fellblade and baneblade would be affected by the targetting rules that I mentioned at 28mm. These show that targets like them get picked out enough times in fluff that the team behind the rules believed it was important to add it in the game. This would absolutely matter when getting fired at by lascannons.
>>97134909
It's an abstraction to avoid it being too annoying to fight. It's why in 2.0 most units got more wounds and hull points but lost armour saves and armour points.

>>97135115
The fellblade series has always been 14/13/12 you lying fuck, they're BANEBLADES

>>97135162
Where did I say that changed you deranged schizo? I wrote that the balance for other units got changed I never said that the fellblade did. The stats are an abstraction and always will be.

>>97135115
>It's not an assault vehicle and the background fluff supports that too.
Then theres clearly internal problems with that vehicle. Because Land raiders (and spartans) are all round assault vehicles, not just from the front.

>The fellblade wasn't mothballed because the land raider doors made it too expensive.
No, it doesent have land raider doors. But it WAS mothballed for being too expensive, replaced with the cheaper, shittier, Baneblade. The one with riveted armor.

>Their doors are too expensive?
They are, in general, too expensive. "Muh STC" does nothing to change that. The fraction of marine equipment that survived from the heresy was the most cost effective or easiest to maintain, and even then that stuff has become a borderline artisan craft that is difficult to replace if lost.

>Tech in 40k follows no natural logic by now.
Irrelevant. The fact remains that imperial tech (and more importantl, manufacturing) is stuck barely managing to produce the lower-end shit from 30k. STC designs and their supposed ease of use and manufacture did not save them.

>I have two apples in my left hand
You would first want to demonstrate that Proteus pattern doors follow the same "double-hatch" design as Deimos pattern doors.

>>97135101
>This would absolutely matter when getting fired at by lascannons.
If it mattered it would be a rule, it isnt because it doesent. "Normal" superheavies like baneblades, typhons, fellblades and their respective alternative configurations are just slightly bigger than normal tanks.

They do not suddenly develop video game weakspots that everyone can instantly target - nor would any minutia of design matter if they DID have that sort of visibility problem.

>>97135115
>It doesn't have to be when it the rhino one can be shot off it's hinges and this one can't.
A shot that would damage the deimos doors would also damage the proteus doors. A shot that would destroy the hinges would likewise also damage the proteus doors and whatever internal mechanisms they operate by. The only exception to this is some borderline impossible frontal shot where the deimos doors simply present a target while proteus doors do not.

>It's an abstraction to avoid it being too annoying to fight.
In the same way all stats are an abstraction, a spartan, land raider, kratos, and leman russ would not have the exact same armor thickness/durability in universe. But no, baneblades (and subsequently the fellblade) are less armored "all around" than land raiders. They are not "less durable", but they are - by conscious design - represented as more vulnerable and with more exposed openings.

Av 14 represents having no weaknesses. Similarly, thats why a sicaran is Av12 on the rear. Its not just that they literally stuck more armour on the back (although they likely did), but that abstraction is used to represent that the vehicle is of a generally higher quality and has fewer weak spots which could be exploited in melee.

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None of the 30k tanks were "mothballed" you fucking idiots. All the vehicles you don't see in 40k could no longer be produced because the knowledge and machines to fabricate them were lost during the HH or Scouring, and never recovered. It was never a deliberate choice, it was only during the Great Crusade that some older designs were being phased out because there were newer, better designs. Heck, even during the HH they already started digging out old patterns like the Malcador and the Kratos because production could not keep up with the attrition rates.

I can't with all these fucking tourists in /hhg/ lately, nobody even know the basic lore points any more.

>>97132386
Help a salamander stole my bike!

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>>97135185
>proteus
Why would a vehicle without assault ramps, that wasn't made for assaults, not being an assault vehicle like in the fluff be at odds with the game? It's what it is, an armoured scout that can double as a tank in the worst case scenario.
>fellblade
pic rel. they still get made post heresy for marines.
>tech
It is relevant because it's true. If GW wants something to sell they won't care about greater ramifications. Case in point the lost tech from above is somehow still getting made. How? Who cares.
>doors
The plastic proteus does, you can even see it on GW's site.
>It would be a rule
Target priority was a rule that affected the baneblade and would affect the fellblade had it been released at that time too.
>door mechanism
A shot would have to get through the entire thickness of the door to get to the mechanisms in the case of the LR doors while the mechanism of the rhino ones are partly exposed.
>armour
Imperial armour 2 2nd ed actually does say that the LRs have around 95mm of armour all around with 115mm in the more armoured spots which doesn't leave me less convinced of them lowering the stats for the fellblade for balance deliberately when comparing to how it would be like when statting it from the fluff.

>Militia (squat) trike squad with meltaguns, 2 combibolters, chainswords
>Militia (orlock) quad squad with heavy flmaer, heavy bolter, chainswords
Good enough or no?

>>97132386
>Bikes
>Land Speeders
>Javelins
>Sabre Tanks

Pretty much all the Fast Attack/Recon vehicles but the Scimitars and Land Raider Explorators need plastic releases, don't they?

Which LI legion has the funnest legion trait? Was thinking of doing SoH but their trait looks like dog shit

>>97134439
Use glass beads for nail art. So cheap. So many sizes.

>>97134626
1.5 or 2mm should be good. 1.5 can also be used on bulkier infantry.

Eight hours to go...

>>97135722
To go where x.x

How do you peoples equip the Primus medicae terminator? I am bulding one and not certain if the Narthecium should be a chainfist due to the small chain thingy. The right hand go for a combi melta. Post some pics if you have them.

Call me a fag but how would one go about representing the nomad predation fleet raven guard that went on to become the space sharks? Just painting raven guard but with maori tattoo markings? Mk II/III armor?

>>97135794
I ran mine as a chain fist and needle pistol in 2.0

>>97135425
The flyers too. I would kill for a plastic fire raptor.

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>>97131467

>TQ

Weirdly I'm most interested in the araknae turrets. Love LI, it's my favorite game atm.

>>97131536

If you're posting at meme image we know you're too stupid to have an opinion.

>>97135869
Sounds like you're mad because he's right, lmao.

>>97135894

Nah, I know the guy in question. He's just a shitbag who is mad people are having fun playing LI.

>>97135896
All three of them, I'm sure.

>>97135898

The most recent release battlegroup sold out on preorder, so *someone's* playing it.

>>97135904
Buying it, sure. But playing it? The only person I know who buys Ligma is one of those GW paypigs that buys every new release, and whose garage looks like a warehouse with sealed warhammer boxes stacked to the ceiling.

>>97135912

Sounds like you're upset about the game.

>>97134402
>DEATHBOXES
People keep saying that about the Sherman and they're wrong.

>>97135298
Yeah, the Admech doesn't have robots not because they're mothballed or because they are expensive the knowledge to make them is gone.

>>97136177
Anon the literal lore reason for why most Automata are gone was because most forge worlds distrusted the legio cybernetica after the heresy and stuck them deep in the vaults, they were supposed to come out of said vaults in fires of cyraxus as a measure of desperation.

>>97136192
huh, I just assumed like most tech from HH it was gone because of lost knowledge. I guess that Castellans are a concession, they're automata but heavily gimped?

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When?

>>97136227
The next HH pre order will probably be the two battle group boxes so I assume these guys wont be until after than, maybe when they release the standalone breacher and skitarii boxes

>>97136227
These look great but I still have a soft spot for the old model.

>>97136227
I just noticed that even if they have remade them in plastic it's still 3 poses/body types. Sigh.

>>97136325
No shit, what did you expect

>>97136347
6. One of the biggest complaint everyone has on the resin ones is that 3 poses repeated for an entire army gets noticeable. That and that they came for one gun of each type and I guess these don't but you could make casts of each of the guns so that point I've felt was always a little moot.

>>97136356
>3 poses repeated for an entire army gets noticeable

That only became an issue in 2.0, when myrmidons were one of if not the most broken, overpowered units in the game, and people started building entire armies out of nothing but myrmidons.

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>>97136347
I swear, any small tiny complaint will bring you people out of the woodwork.

>>97136367
Some people were building myrm armies in 1.0 too when they were shit. I recall one guy in the LGS having 40ish of them supported by automata. This was one of the complaints.

>>97136375
>say dumb shit
>get butthurt when people reply

>>97136375
This. You can't say shit without having someone that started playing the game last week or something start acting like they are some sort of """""loremaster"""""" hired by GW to stifle any kind of complaint.

>>97136392
>calling others tourists because you expected GW to change from their 3 elite bodies per sprue design they've been doing for over a decade

>>97136383
>>97136408
So it's just your shitty bait? Got it.

>>97136408
Yes I would have expected GW to at least give you different chest plates to at least try to slightly fix a complaint people have had for more than a decade with how many parts the other mechanicum kits come in.
>GW to change from their 3 elite bodies per sprue design they've been doing for over a decade
This isn't 40k. We've never had plastic elites for even close to a decade unless you count the terminators which were 5 per sprue.

>>97136254
I like the old ones too, but I would have bought those from a recaster either way, so it's all positives as far as I'm concerned.

>>97136254
I prefer the old ones, I got 3d prints to get all the guns which was the only downside

>>97135803
Older marks would make sense yes.

>>97136227
They look so fucking ugly

>>97136604
Would the maori markings be too early in the timeline to be panted on? Quite unsure about doing them but otherwise I got no clue how to show they became the space sharks

>>97135770
To go and play Titanicus!

>>97136862
A few grey armour panels might work. Could be the early start of the space sharks heraldry, but also unpainted ceramite armour panels due to lacking resources.

>>97136377
>Some people were building myrm armies in 1.0 too when they were shit
They had Preferred Enemy (Everything!), Graviton Imploders were AP2, and had Infravisors and actual power fists instead of the worse power swords they now have. Were they ever really that bad? I'm talking Myrmidon Destroyers.

>>97137044
They weren't bad at all, it just was that other shit was even better at the time.

>>97136872
My man. What're your thoughts on knights in AT? I feel they kinda defeat the whole purpose and miss the most fun part (i.e. managing your reactor, shields etc).

>>97135348
>Case in point the lost tech from above is somehow still getting made
The fellblade isnt "lost tech", its just too expensive and difficult to produce at any sort of scale.

>A shot would have to get through the entire thickness of the door
And a shot that goes through the hinge on the deimos style door would do just that.

>>97137044
They were alright erring on the side of bad because they were too slow(no running) and a bit too expensive for what they brought. To make the most use of them you really wanted to put them into a transport but that would cost even more. Forget about melee it's hard to get into it and they are much better at range because they get no bonus outside of powerfists. Secutors were better.

>GW bringing back a bunch of sector mechanicus terrain
>right before Christmas, after I exhausted my holiday budget
CURSE YOU JEW WORKSHOP

>>97137099
>not lost tech
It literally is, the previous pages state so but then they remember they have to sell the thing so they just wrote it still gets produced somewhere. The same happens to land raider/malcadors/baneblade/whatever variants that GW phases out and re-runs sometimes. "We believed we lost the STC but someone found/had it and has started production again."
>A shot that goes through a thin section of exposed mechanism will go through a much thicker door because it just will

>>97137090
A household list seems kinda dull though I've never fought one but having a support banner is fine.

>>97137143
>thin section
You might want to go look at those doors again

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someone asked me to post more of the SoS cosplay last thread

>she's still not getting any new units in the talons book

>>97136873
Gotcha, thanks!

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Titanicus! At 10 in the morning

>>97137331
As is proper

Having seen the new plastic fellblade in the flesh has made me realise how anorexic all the big resin tank models of FW look. Those sunken in panels really make tanks look smaller and malnourished or something, that plastic fellblade looked much larger even though it was pretty much the exact same size.
Shame about the redesigned doors and demolisher cannon though.

>>97137224
I did, their hinges are thinner than the land raider door.

>>97137322
I think she's got a pretty sword

>>97137322
We all know SoS are going to be soft squatted in favour of femstodes.

>>97137495
"we" all "know" indeed, anon

>>97137351
it's not a huge deal to dremel out the space for a LR door if it bothers you

plus it's plastic, so you won't get mesothelioma and start talking like Jar Jar

>>97137495
yes, the talons release will be revealed (most likely christmas?) and there will be femstodes but no new SoS stuff, it is a guarantee

>>97135862
The turrets are fun and cute.

How are knights and titans in LImp? Last I heard they were fragile and overcosted. Not sure what balances changes may have happened in or around the Liber Strategia release. Still problems with missile squad spam, AL and Imperial Fists?

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Early morning Titanicus. Quick match, my opponent was pressed for time so we only got to the top of turn 4 before we had to bail. My rolls were all over the place this game but it was really fun. Bossman and Jim ganged up and dropped that warlord, Rock 'em Sock 'em Reaver pasted a warhound before getting blown to pieces and Stripes was actually getting clobbered by a warhound because it kept wiffing.
The warlord was borrowed from someone else, my opponent isn't quite sure if they want to go full Audax. You can actually play multiple Legios in a single battlegroup but your opponent gets some bonus stratagem points which we aren't using yet so that would work a bit funky.

I think one of my favorite things about Titanicus is how you can string together these ridiculous dice chains for minor reasons. Like shooting someone: roll draining for the volcano cannon, oh you awakened the machine spirit so roll command check, you passed so you roll to hit, you missed so you scatter, oh but you scattered onto the target still so roll armor and location, of you hit the weapon now roll another d6 for which weapon. Stuff like that happens a lot and it's always ridiculous.

>>97133271
Irl reason is to differentiate between it and the ig version
In universe it could be representative of the “throw everything at the enemy” mentality of the solar aux so sponsons are traded for a front facing gun so more can work together while being physically close while legion tanks would have more space between them

>>97133271
>why
Because fuck you.

Even militia lost Russ sponsons, even though a lot of other units in their list are just 40k units ported over to 30k, so what fucking gives? One could maybe argue removing the sponsons enabled SA to seal the hulls better, but they didn't do that to all their other tanks with sponsons, so there's no other reason besides "because of reasons".
>>97138452
>“throw everything at the enemy” mentality of the solar aux
They're like the elite of the Army. How come they're now the disposable fodder wasting lives for nothing?

>>97136254

They both have their charms but I think it's a shame the new ones don't have the really nice flat hoods and shoulderpads, it made them look nicely solid. Might be possible to greenstuff the old hoods onto some of those bare heads.

I really like that we're getting plastic lads, they're going to be so good for converting good Magi and they're basically usable in 40k as well, just magnetise some heavy arc rifles onto those gunshields so they can be Breachers.

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how deep down GW's rabbit hole are you ?
i am way past saving

>>97138614
They’re the elite below the elite of the legions below the elite of first companies below the elite of talons lmao. They’re “elite” fodder that’s better than the backwoods militia they gave a las lock to

>>97139312
As per their own fluff, they're second only to space marines. They're the top of the Imperial Army.

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So, have any of you used an Augur Command & Control squad? They do seem to me like a possible source of 24" Supress while everyone else is busy doing the actual fighting and receives an incidental +1 reaction

>>97138614
>How come they're now the disposable fodder wasting lives for nothing?
IIRC the demands of the crusade, their reputation for excellence, and their ability to requisition massive resources, resulted in the SA's numbers swelling immensely in the latter years before the HH. By the end of the crusade they accounted for something silly like 25% of the Imperium's manpower. By that point they're not so much an elite formation as they're just a regular army.

>>97139376

Yup, and Guilliman in particular liked using them in human wave tactics (see: Ultima Pattern cohort).

>>97139376

It was 25% of their first-line units, specifically.

>>97138614

Because Aux are an NPC faction in an Astartes game. That's why they're fodder.

>>97139376
>they accounted for something silly like 25% of the Imperium's manpower. By that point they're not so much an elite formation as they're just a regular army.
Marines account about 15% (186,000) of the whole US armed forces (~1.32 M). So they are "just a regular army". But like... in everyone's minds they're still better than the Army. It's the same for the Solar Auxilia.
It doesn't help that there's no Imperial Army to compare them against – Imperial Militia are sort of like the Coast Guard in that comparison.

>>97139412
unrelated, but i've always seen large standing armies as a sign that the country has poor manufacturing and logistics, especially in the chair sector.

>>97139566
Costa Rica's 0 standing army isn't a marker of great logistics either. And in fact the US's manufacturing was bonkers when harnessed for WW2, and has only grown ever since. Maybe that metric alone is insufficient. Why do you have that opinion, anon?

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>>97139566

>>97139566
nice

>>97139412
better at disposing of crayons

>>97139863
>better at disposing of crayons
Ist: Hoards the crayons. Denies the crayons existed.
IIIrd: Try putting the crayons in the holes of both themselves and others
IVth: Non-lobotomized members grab the yellow and black ones so inductii can paint their hazard stripes
Vth: Only take the red ones.
VIth: Shoot/burn/chop up the crayons (maleficarum)
VIIth: Take the crayons to use as tactical resource
VIIIth:They all want to take crayons but are afraid what their pals will say so they try to do stealthily
IXth: Draw something pretty with the crayons
Xth: Crush the crayons underfoot
XIIth: Eat the crayons to calm the nails
XIIIth: Capture and reverse-engineer the crayons to make ULTRA-crayons
XIVth: Accidentally melt the crayons during warcrimes
XVth: Delude themselves into thinking the crayons are a shard of Magnus, flesh change ensues
XVIth: Use the crayons to draw gang signs on themselves and rude messages on enemies
XVIIth: Put daemons in the crayons and let them loose
XVIIIth: Develop forge-crafted crayons
XIXth: Only take the dark colors
XXth:Steals the crayons and replaces them with an almost-identical pack for nefarious purposes

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I might have a game this week baring unforeseen interruption.
So how do I actually play this game?

>>97140404

Which one? Legions Imperialis, Adeptus Titanicus, or Age of Darkness?

>>97140451
Age of Dorkness

>>97137737
Breaches and new termie box will be up for preorder on the 27th

>>97132601
God all these kits allow people to run wild with militia holy shit. Is militia just pure soul or what?

>>97137090
>I feel they kinda defeat the whole purpose and miss the most fun part
Points filler and great support units. Household rule sucks because they don't want you to play it, but they made it anyway because money. And the Armigers sold by GW is why you should get into 3d printing.

>>97140488
There's a very large amount of models to assemble/print and paint, but you don't even have to run Militia with GW kits. You can go nuts for sure, they allow for far more artistic expression.

Also Necromunda models are a bit jacked up in scale. On the other hand, Palatine Enforcers should be a decent source of bits like shotguns.

>>97140679
I love iron head squats. They are smaller than marines ya? But more bulkier?

>>97140858
Going off MiniCompare they are absolutely shorter, but it's the humans that you'd have to be more worried about and it still varies a good deal. Hive Scum are a tad shorter, but something like House Orlock catches up while the Palatine Enforcers are the same if not taller.

>>97140488
>Is militia just pure soul or what?

Always has been.

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This buisness in the shooting phase when you're splitting fire groups by weapon: does that mean each fire group can target a different unit or are they just being asinine about how you're supposed to roll your dice?

>>97141134
That's just describing how you're suppose to roll separately for each different type of weapon being fired.

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>>97141165
Hmm...whoops.

>>97131536
Play movie marines

Was gonna ask about what would be the best primary weapon for a mhara gal but then I actually looked at their fist weapons and fucking hell. Panic2 template gun that hits at ap2 half the time

Instead I’ll do something interesting. No one used missile hss last ed. Anyone seeing any success with them in 3.0. Seems like the multiple fire modes and improved blast template accuracy would be better appreciated even if it looks like a pain to roll for

>>97136862
I think it's fine and will make them stand out.

>>97141231
Missile launcher HSS are pretty alright. Quite versatile, krak missiles deal with MEQ and light/medium vehicles whilst frag missiles do decent damage against clumped up infantry. Became a lot easier to use now that they can move and shoot. Don't expect miracles though.

And I did in fact use missile launcher HSS last edition. Was one of the more point efficient ways to get rid of those annoying tactical squads with apothecary having Heart of the Legion active.

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played a game with custodes for the first time and they seem really good. Especially their vehicles having multiple shooting profiles for different targets and vanguard on their dreads.

>>97141529
>vanguard on their dreads
Skill issue, you should've autowon off of them being nothing but vanguard

>>97141550
but I was them

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Okay. So I figured out I need to run my mecanicum army with upgrades for it to work, normally i like to just run everything with the base loadsouts but i need to get over that

>>97142023
>run everything with the base loadsouts

Okay, that has to be the weirdest list building habit I have heard in over twenty years of playing warhammer.

Would you have an issue if someone painted different sections on an army differently? Like Ordo Cybernetica (Burnt red with gold and white) stuff painted in a diffetent scheme from the Reductor stuff (not sure what yet, but something more warrior like and brighter)? I never like the army being all one colour, felt ver rts like

If Magnus wasn't a retard and actually traveled to Terra on ship to deliver the message about Horus would the Emperor actually listen to him?

>>97140455
I suggest playing Titanicus instead

I haven't even considered Iron Havocs. I bet they are BAD like the rest of that legion's units, rules and non-TH wargear

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>>97137322
very nice thanks anon

>>97142155
Iron Havocs are one of only two units left in the entire game that have shooting which ignores covers saves, outside of template weapons. The other unit being siege tyrants.

>>97137113
bad paypiggy you must bankrupt yourself for GW

>>97142187
Who needs cover when you are 3+ save minimum and most AP depends on Breaching? Game designers are COWARDS who fear high AP guns
I bet Havocs pay a lot for ignoring something that isn't actually necessary anyways. Probably counters something that dies easily anyways like militia lmao

>>97142213
Oh I see, you're just looking for something to cry about.

>>97142213
You have ap2/3 weapons avaliable dumbfuck. God I knew the 4th made them thick but I didn't realise you couldn't read.

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Is this too big for a stormbird?

>>97142259
I like him

>>97142213
>This is the mind of a nogames
Truly a bleak world

>>97131982
Bizarre fag take this anon MUST take his primarch every game

>>97142259
Why don't you just use the stormbird STL file

>>97142231
Should have known that the second he mentioned an IW unit.
IWfags only whine whine whine

>>97142259
Titan Legio?

>>97142043
That's what your supposed to do,the different Arcana are feudal rivals and especially the order reductor ejo aren't even technically part of the Forge world (their order was created by order of the Emperor for the great crusade, which is why they're the only one with ordo prefix)

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Perturabo rolling up in the IV Legion's customary clown costume.

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>>97142259
Is the cockpit one of those anime starship bridges with giant windows into space and bridge crew on multiple levels with tons of empty space?

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>>97142043
I have embraced schizo liveries of the XXth
>cata praetor is metallic turquiose with purple crest and silver trim
>lerneans are amaranth with bronze (black for sgt) arms, steel trim, green leather
>champion is turquisoe, green topknot, with an asymmetric bronze/steel/gold reinforced arm
>metallic blue MoD (haven't decided his shoulder pads yet)
>indigo tacs, sgt has silver rims
>green inductii with bronze-rimmed steel pads
>blue inductii with steel rims
>black headhunters with right blue shoulders and left bronze arms
>pale gray jorlund hunters with met blue pads and steel trim

>>97143037
He's the most sensible looking one there though, absolutely 0 reason for guilliman to be dressed like that he's not savage

>>97143060
I tried a phtalo blue ink with red shade to get something like some of the older art, but my application was kinda ass and might have to try again with mixing it with silver paint next time.

>>97143037
>this party sucks
>my feet hurt
>what kind of a retard brings a fucking scythe to a party?
>I wish I stayed home and played Squat Fortress instead

>>97143037
>Fulgrim auditioning for the next SHAFT production

>>97142213
>Game designers are COWARDS who fear high AP guns

says the anon who fears rolling dice in a game of chance

>>97142213
>missile launchers are Ap3
>autocannons literally do more damage and nearly as many ap2 wounds as lascannons
>they also apparently JUST HAVE LASCANNONS
Man this mf is retarded

>>97142804
Yeah kinda walked into that one. Should have known better.

>>97142043
The only time people "have an issue" with how someone has painted their army is when someone wants to use rules for one army with an army that is painted as a different army that has its own distinct ruleset, in particular when they are doing so just to use a better ruleset.

If you have a schizo idea of how to paint your army just do it. You get extra points if it has some internal logic that takes 20 minutes to explain.

2e players. Thinking about trying out an overseer, how many human bodies am I looking to grab? Got a sale on Etsy for 60 dudes running about $45.

>>97139356
No

>>97143502
>If you have a schizo idea of how to paint your army just do it. You get extra points if it has some internal logic that takes 20 minutes to explain.
This is why I’m painting an alpha legion army. They can be anybody if they’re playing pretend!

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>>97143037
The artist be like
>I gotta give Mortarion a scythe or no one will know who the fuck is that guy
I didn't know he was that tall. He is tough, to be sure, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being tall.
I like it when they depict him with long white hair. Long hair gives more opportunities to be dirty.

>>97139356
I've seen one used, mostly as point filler. They scored a backfield objective on turn 1 and then died to a karacnos drop

>>97143773
I'm going to be honest I could only tell who the lion was by process of elimination because russ and guilliman were also in the picture and easily identifiable which meant there was only one other choice for literally who blondie.

>>97143037
This picture is inaccurate, why isn't angron a manlet

>>97143773
I thought Mortarion got described as a gaunt lanklet several times. In older depictions his daemon form even resembled the grim reaper.

>>97143804
There area a lot of... "artistic liberties" in that artwork.

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Hey guys, I'm writing some lore for an AL saturnine dreadnought I'm kitbashing and would love some input:

The saturnine chassis (and it's honoured occupant) got blown up by a falchion. The techmarines salvaged what was left of the frame and hooked in a temporary test subject (unlucky inductii) while they were running tests and experimenting.
The inductii had been recovered from a Death Guard camp and had been slated for disposal because he had broken under torture and given up legion secrets.

My guys come under attack so they need to put this guy into service immediately without even being able to put all the armour back on, hooking up whatever exotic and possibly heretical weapons they had on hand. The inexperienced inductii was losing his mind from the sensation overload and possible daemonic corruption of the weapons and is essentially becoming a saturnine Mhara Ghal.

I'm thinking of naming him Tantalus (because just like his namesake he's being punished with an eternal hunger for his failure to keep secrets).

Let me know what you would add or change.
I'll do a proper write up when I'm satisfied with the core lore outline.

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>>97144075
Excuse the shit painting but heres my current progress, I'm gonna redo all the metallics because I went way too thick.

Post your models anons!

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>>97144092
I'm pretty happy with the reactor glow on the back.
I'll be shading and weathering everything soon, everything is pretty flat right now. I'll probably use some greenstuff to smooth some of the armor parts too, cutting out all these panels was a messy job.

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Question: How does the Caestus get to use the stationary Heavy profile of its main gun if:
1. Flyers must have Combat Assignments that remove them from the tabletop at the end of the turn (AoD p. 226)
2. Models arriving from reserves (and Aerial reserves) are considered to have moved...right?

>>97144129
How does any non-hover flyer get to use a Heavy weapon, actually?

>>97131467
>dark angels not also featured in Traitor Legiones Astartes
>alpha legion not also featured in Loyalist Legiones Astartes
What did GW mean by this?

>>97144138
All models can move, shoot, and even charge with heavy weapons now.

>>97144138
Have you tried reading the rules?

>>97144284
Tried unsuccessfully. Skimmed pages 226 and ... whichever is regular Reserves. 312 or something. Figured I'd ask someone who actually knew while I went about with my day. I'm taking a shower right now.

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I have 3 saturnine cents I am building that will all have fist/plasma and I was hoping to get /hhg/'s opinions on which flavor of fist I should go with for them.

>>97144679
All but bottom right

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>>97144679
Bottom right, of course.

>>97144719
>>97144736
>The duality of man

>>97143037
https://youtu.be/2FCo7OxVoeY

>>97144736
Well played Macca

>>97143773
Give Morty a mask simple

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Horus Heresy is cool but even more expensive than 40k and you can't even say it's an successor chapter for all the cool elite units...

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>>97145280
>an successor

>>97144620
post pics

>>97143528
he can only join one squad and it's capped at 20 bodies; the Militia Infantry don't get Tercio (which is the only advantage to having more units taken as part of the Overseer's Tercio, you get to make Reactions with them) or Dedicated Transports (the Solar Aux do iirc), but the Militia can take special weapons and be an annoying unit to deal with because either way they're ablative wounds for the Overseer with plenty of shooting; blast chargers are quite good in 2E too

if you can find a Legion transport that holds 21 bodies, you can put the Militia Infantry into one because they're part of the Legion detachment, not the Militia detachment; either way you don't get Provenance benefits for them

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>I am an Ancient Sorcerer Supr-ACK

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>>97145667

>>97144075
>>97144092
>>97144102
Looks great anon, I would recommend tamiya smooth surface epoxy to go over some of the exposed metal pieces. Lore seems cool, I think exposing the machinery inside the dread is an extremely cool idea and I might steal it for the Iron Hands Contemptor I'm building.

Also is that a fucking warmaster arm

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>>97145716
GYATT DAYUM, Sisters of Silence look like that?

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>mfw thought this art was photoshopped the first time seeing it

>>97135298
>None of the 30k tanks were "mothballed" you fucking idiots. All the vehicles you don't see in 40k could no longer be produced because the knowledge and machines to fabricate them were lost during the HH or Scouring, and never recovered.

I think there are a few exceptions to that, like the Stormbird. The Thunderhawk does the same thing but far cheaper, and if it goes down in a crash it doesn't wipe out 1/20th of those new Space Marine Codex-Compliant Chapters.

But I would bet that after falling out of production, stuff like the Stormbird blueprints would then be forgotten about in storage.

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>me and the boys killing niggers for the Legion Drug upgrades

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>>97134044
>God baneblades are ugly.
opinion discarded

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>>97134044
>God baneblades are ugly.

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>>97145983
>>97146014
Which baneblade is the best?
>OG plasticard conversion
>Epic
>Armorcast
>FW Mars pattern
>FW Lucius pattern
>GW
>SA

The solar auxilia baneblade looks better than the current baneblade

Excuse me for being so blunt, but can anyone point me to a link where I can get the HH lore books for free, I have some old torrents, but i seek the last few years and i seem to not keep score of the links I have. I checked the pastebins but i might be out of my depth.

>>97146393
Fuck you, James

>>97146462
I am just a bulgarian retard that doesn't remember if and where he put his links. Just finished Warhawk which was the last in the torrent i have.

>>97146476
BL isn't lore but rather glop. Lore is the black books.

>>97145573
Just realized I lost half the damn post before somehow. I also joked about just starting a aux/militia army with dudes that cheap. So what’s a good number of dudes to start an average aux/militia army?
But thanks for answering.

>>97146555
>So what’s a good number of dudes to start an average aux/militia army
One hundred

>>97146097
Faggot

>>97146581
Consider it done.

>>97146555
>>97146555
60 to 100 is probably a good number no matter what edition you're playing (even old 40k), enough for 2-3 platoons to be warm bodies on objectives while leaving more than enough points for the actually important tanks and artillery. I still have 80 more tech thralls to paint for my augmented levy militia infantry ;_;

rules question, when a drop pod is deployed and the doors are open can the occupants be intercept reacted?

>>97147603
When a drop pod is deployed the owning player is beaten to death with a cinderblock

>>97144138
>How does any non-hover flyer get to use a Heavy weapon
Fire Raptors and Storm Eagles are Stable, meaning they count as stationary. Hover isn't a thing anymore. As for the other flyers, idk.

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>>97144138

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>>97147819
>>97144284
Rules read. Flyers must come in from (aerial) reserves, and thus count as having moved. Please produce a way for a non-Stable flyer to use the Heavy (X) profile of their weaponry, considering they have moved by definition.

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Day 2 of actually reading the rulebook so I can give a proper intro game because my opponent doesn't want to play Titanicus

>>97147882
your wrong and just baiting for the correct answer. Read the rules faggot

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>>97147882
They just shoot something like a lascannon at its standard profile, they cannot use (X) heavy bonuses. So a lascannon would just be damage 1 as they are always counted as moving with their combat assignments. The only thing that bypasses this is stuff like "guided" missles or fliers that are stable/super heavies. Yes the flier rules are all very different from past versions of the rules. Make sure you read the combat assignments very well also. They are VERY specific on what you can and can't do.

>>97148103
Hard to believe but it's true then :O! Thanks, anon.
Combat Assignments are cool...but miss a single aerial reserves roll and the flyer just sat out 2 of the 4 game turns x.x

>>97142795
>I like to play small ZM games
>HURR DURR PRIMURHC
If the little flakes that fall off the wall are shiny and taste sweed, you shouldn't eat them anon.

Question, how gay would it be to paint some LI squads as a different legion for an AL army, or maybe like a whole detachment and it's transports? Not sure if that would make much sense at the scale of the game but am unsure, so I'd like some input

>>97143502
>The only time people "have an issue" with how someone has painted their army is when someone wants to use rules for one army with an army that is painted as a different army that has its own distinct ruleset, in particular when they are doing so just to use a better ruleset.
Nobody that isn't a poofter has a problem with that either.

>>97148161
You'd be hunted down and shot

>>97148272
Finally, someone to put me out of my misery. How do you feel about vehicles doing that transition affect from AL to another legion?

>>97148276
Your family would join you

>>97148279
Good to know, thanks!

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>>97148276
I refuse to believe AL would revert back to their colors after breaking cover. Their friend/foe transponders would simply start broadcasting a key signal to appear friendly to fellow True-Colors AL.
But bright colors do help the tabletop player see what's theirs, so it's okay

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>>97148103
The risk of bad rolling for arield reserves is totally made good by how impactful they can be when they arrive. The sheer joy of popping knights or vehicles in the ass or in your case splatting a terminator squad with the melta pie plate on the caestus ram while dropping off your squad to assault them/steal an objective with little risk is just so good and grea asymetrical warfare for 3.0 because no one is running them or preparing for them currenlty.

>>97144129
the magna-melta is also used by the Predatorm which can remain stationary

>>97148348
>I refuse to believe AL would revert back to their colors after breaking cover.
Makes sense but it's mostly cuz I've been traded some UM xiphons turning into AL xiphons and I like it. Mostly it's because of
>But bright colors do help the tabletop player see what's theirs, so it's okay
and to make them obviously AL so it's less "I painted UMs but am running AL it's totally not because they have a better rule."

I am thinking about getting into 30k with death guard as they're my favourite legion
Any suggestions as to how to start on a budget? Mainly I just want to get a force out to play and see if I actually like the hobby enough
Also I have a Mars 4 Ultra so any good parts to print? I might try giving sculpting them myself a go

>>97148555
Also is it ok if I put the names of every marine on their base or would people consider that autistic?

>>97148563
People wouldn't really care

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>>97148563
Autistic AF. But cool.
I really want to get a game in with some of my stuff before I get it painted so I can see what units do better, and can treat them better in painting and such. But that means fielding an unpainted force and MY autisim hurts when I do that.
To be fair, no one will care.
Also gotta work on the silver and washes/highlights on my gorgons for AL and they are almost done.

>>97148679
Jesus christ I thought those were 3d printed at first with how awfully you posed them

>>97148563
I imagine most won't care but will probably admire the effort.

>>97148766
>multiple support scars, the regular indomidus shoulder for the one shoulder pad that misprinted.
They are. Honestly I haven't touched a warhammer model in like over half a year, I wasn't happy with the posing but I wasn't going to faff around all night at 4am in the morning to pose them any better.

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If those weapon options for the quad batteries come out would you be interested in them? Double punisher cannon sounds pretty boss.
Once I've gotten them painted up I think I might take an allied detachment for my Alone and Forgotten of a single centurion so I can take a pair of them just for funny.

>>97145667
I wonder if any of them felt bad when they found out they were doing the traitor's bidding.

>>97149231
The traitorous meddling was to change the capture order to a kill order: Magnus was still in flagrant violation of the Council of Nikaea and doomed the webway project and the Golden throne in his arrogance, and Ahriman still would have led the resistance against the invasion so not much change for anyone not named Magnus and Russ.

>>97148679
Are these 3d prints?